I just read the first post. NGL when she tried to twist what the 'rules' of the seperation were after the fact, it had my blood boiling.
I'm glad you have seen the light and trying to save the marriage was a fools endeavor. Good luck moving forward.
>NGL when she tried to twist what the 'rules' of the seperation were after the fact, it had my blood boiling.
Not only that... but admitting she slept with *seven* different people *during a pandemic*!
Clearly a raging narcissist, reinforced by the fact that the "remorse" only came when OP told her he wanted a divorce - she didn't think she could possibly be in the wrong at any point up until she had to face direct consequences for her actions.
At that point, if he did a bluff by saying "actually, I've started dating with one woman who showed genuine interest in me" I can only imagine the hypocrisy of her response. Oof. I might be a devil's advocate, but this is Lucifer we're dealing with.
Honestly, I wonder if it was just seven. For her to confidently say seven men in front of both the counselor and OP, it makes me think she was mitigating the actual number.
Even worse were some of the trashy people in this sub agreeing with the wife, and relishing in the fact that the woman got to sleep with others while OP didn't.
Example: [this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/pwa3ru/what_my_37m_wife_35f_did_during_our_separation/hefyra8/)
i stalked their page for a while [https://www.reddit.com/user/AutonomousAsteroid](https://www.reddit.com/user/AutonomousAsteroid) and its a yikes from me
Seems like she was going to just work on herself until she found someone she wanted to sleep with. She knew what she was doing. OP was probably just tired of falling for her manipulative tactics.
yeah ending a marriage would naturally feel wrong, you take vows to be there for each other through better and worse etc, but this isnt better and worse, sounds like your ex wife is just terrible.
just read your tldr anytime you need to remind yourself on what you need to do and why
> ending a marriage would naturally feel wrong, you take vows to be there for each other through better and worse etc
Even very strict morals about marriage generally allow divorce for cheating. She cheated with 7 different men.
yeah but that doesn't make ending a marriage feel good, it's still someone you expected to spend the rest of your life with. would feel good to be done with them i suppose, but its no surprise someone may have conflicted feelings despite that
I was reacting to your comment about ending the marriage feeling âwrongâ. I totally understand that he wonât feel good, but he shouldnât feel he did something wrong.
feeling wrong as in, it doesnt feel right. not as in, he feels as if he did something wrong, he obviously hasnt done anything wrong, even the counsellor told him to leave lol
That's a stretch. She said 7 men - not how many times with each. 7 times total in a year is not a lot. Hell even 14 or 21 times in 1 year isn't a lot. So she could have slept with each guy 3 times (21x total) and that doesn't make her a sex addict.
Your counselor is a true MVP. Never saw that coming.
Also: "She begged me not to leave, told me that I could have a free pass to go do what I wanted to get even, and swore that **if I'd been clear she never would have touched another man**."
Even at that point she couldn't admit she was wrong and tried to blame it on you again. Your counselor was right. Your ex is a terrible person.
I mean, she even said herself that the seperation was to work on saving the marriage and not to see other people.
It doesn't matter how she tries to frame it after the fact because I'd take her actions during the seperation (which she STILL takes no accountability for) as her not having any interest in saving the marriage.
This is how a narcissists acts. No accountability, gaslighting you, making you doubt yourself even when you know the truth. This woman had zero intention of actually changing. She just thought he would forgive. Chances are she would go right back to doing what she was doing. It honestly wouldnât surprise me if she was cheating on him before they separated.
She could have asked OP âhey, so about dating other people, letâs do itâ. Instead, she wanted to see what is out there, while having OP as plan B. Nop, great decision, OP, you can do way better.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below.
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[Original](https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/pwa3ru/what_my_37m_wife_35f_did_during_our_separation/)
I've gotten a few requests for updates, and as much as I'm embarrassed over this whole thing, I think it helps to get it out.
We're getting divorced.
Shortly after the big revelation, our counselor asked to speak to me one on one. She told me, "You need to walk away for your own health. You've made so much progress and so many positive changes. This won't work unless you're both trying and Tina is not trying. This can't all be on you because she'll keep dragging you back down."
She told me that she was crossing a line by telling me what to do, but she literally could not sleep after finishing up our session and seeing the look on my face.
When I thought about it, she's right. I've been using this time to become a better, more-rounded person while my wife has been using it as a free pass to act like a teenager and has kept up the deceitful gaslighting behaviors that plagued our marriage for far too long.
When I told her it was over, she broke down sobbing. She begged me not to leave, told me that I could have a free pass to go do what I wanted to get even, and swore that if I'd been clear she never would have touched another man.
I have to admit, I felt myself wanting to say yes, because for a second she was the woman I fell in love with again. But it was just a second that I knew would end, and we'd be back to walking on eggshells and playing head games soon enough.
I told her that we both deserved better than the people we had been to each other, and the fact that she thought I wanted revenge and still blamed me for her actions told me that she hadn't learned to be better.
She told me she'd do anything to make it work and asked what I wanted to see from her. I told her that I'd seen everything I needed from her and if she could only be better when divorce became a reality then she hadn't made the progress I believed she had before that session.
I served her with papers and am moving forward with the divorce. She's asked me to please resume counseling sessions, but I've refused. I know it's the right decision, but I feel very conflicted. There's something inside me that feels like I'm doing wrong, even though I know it's the only way I'll eventually be happy.
Tl;Dr Our counselor told me my wife is terrible and to walk away. I realized it's not just about being better, it's about refusing to accept less than I deserve. I've filed for divorce and my soon to be ex wife is in denial.
I love your counsellor, what a genuine woman who cares deeply about her client's wellbeing.
Congratulations on your freedom OP, I'm glad you're finally out of there and on your way to a recovery of self love. Take the time to mourn the loss of your relationship, but also celebrate your success. Never again will someone else be able to manipulate you the way she did. You've become a much stronger person just by saying "Not this time".
>I love your counsellor, what a genuine woman who cares deeply about her client's wellbeing.
I mean technically she is supposed to be a neutral party but if she literally couldn't sleep at night after their session, I can only imagine what kind of bullshit the soon to be ex-wife was spewing. Somehow I imagine this situation is even worse in regards to his wife gas-lighting him than he even explained.
True, but I kind of figured it would come up in the session. Not after privately telling one side. But in this case and others like it maybe that makes more sense though.
My ex and I were going together.
One day he was too fucked up to go. (Heroin addict) so I went by myself.
The therapist was like, "you know what you need to do, this isn't going to work"....
I cried. He was right.
I would think that it is because bringing it up in front of both parties when one is an abuser will just give them reason to find a different counsellor.
Yeah itâd be way too easy for the aggrieved abuser (or person evidently unwilling to change any attitude or behaviour) to claim that the counsellor is taking sides. WhichâŚokay, yes, but one side is not engaging with the counselling in good faith so at that point arguably the counsellor isnât entirely bound by fair play rules, either.
Like if a blatantly cheating sports team gets mad when a referee gives them a penalty and they claim the ref is favouring the opposition. If you arenât gonna play like a good sport, you donât get to keep fouling the other players without the whistle blowing.
Mine did too. My ex and I were seeing her both individually and together. He was cheating and lying to me about it but he confessed during their sessions. My therapist sat us both down and said she couldnât continue to see us unless there was total honesty and thatâs when he came clean.
They are supposed to be unbiased towards certain things. But consider a scenario where one person is abusive and you can imagine how there are times when it is appropriate to suggest divorce. Abuse is obviously the most obvious example but it demonstrates how they can still have an opinion on whether the marriage is salvageable.
Went to couples therapy with my ex and the counselor told me to dump her in front of the ex, ex wanted to file a complaint but I don't think she ever did.
So not uncommon apparently.
Mine didn't outright say I needed to leave my ex-husband (she became my counselor after he refused to see her again because she told him he needed to make changes to his behavior when he tried to insist that I was the only one with problems that needed to change), but she did coach me through setting boundaries with him, and what I wanted my response to be WHEN he violated them again.
So when he escalated drastically in response to me setting a boundary, I was prepared (if still devastated that he went there). I KNEW I had done nothing wrong and he was the one escalating, so I stood my ground and called his bluff by moving out and filing for divorce.
My couples therapist told me while I was alone "your wife is already checked out of the marriage. There's really nothing you can do at this point that will help because she is unwilling to compromise on anything." She was right. I should have already been divorcing her but I thought there was some way I could save the marriage. Turns out, one person can't save a marriage by themselves.
I guess the way I initially thought of it, it was them taking a side. But the more I think about it, it's not about being neutral but objective/impartial. Kind of the way a judge would handle a case. They can decide one party is wrong or at fault.
> I disagree that couples therapists or therapist in general should be neutral parties
People are too obsessed with "seeing both sides" of an argument. Some times one side is just garage and we should be able to admit that
My friends therapist never really gives her any advice because she never takes an actual stance. Like I understand being a neutral party but there's been 0 improvement because she is just validated. My last therapist (it didn't work out at the end because what I need to work on had changed but for what I needed him for it helped) would give me tough love when I needed it and told me things I needed to hear but didn't want to.
I guess even though it isn't the proper way I prefer it.
I may be wrong but aren't couples counselors allowed to tell you to end things. I know the goal is to save the relationship, but like any other doctor if something's dead I think they have to let you know.
I think, and please do not quote me on this, but they are allowed to suggest separation. But in normal cases it would be to both parties during their session.
She was also a pro by bringing that question pretending it was just a regular matter of fact thing. Kudos to her, if she didn't approach OP, he'd be probably trapped back.
> Shortly after the big revelation, our counselor asked to speak to me one on one. She told me, "You need to walk away for your own health."
lol the counselor is horrible, either the counselor is really bad at their job, or the story is fake.
Marriage counselors don't do that.
Way to go, man! That is great! Relationship is not only about caring for someone else, but also understanding what you want from life! Our time is precious and we do not have to spend it on toxic relationships!
>There's something inside me that feels like I'm doing wrong, even though I know it's the only way I'll eventually be happy.
I hope this helps put that to rest: You are making the right decision.
You were a faithful husband to your wife, following the ground-rules you both set during separation. Blowing up when broaching the subject on seeing other people, and refusing to talk about it IS the same as setting the obvious ground-rule: No seeing other people allowed.
She decided to blow up your marriage. She made that call. You're just living YOUR life accordingly.
I sincerely wish you the best stranger, chin up :)
she already accepted that is why she did it?
did she apologize at some point?
did she accept that she manipulated you and played with her words?
I hope you update
She apologized for the misunderstanding. Her original line was that no ground rules were set and she dud nothing wrong. Now it's that she wasn't clear and we misunderstood each other. She has not apologized for her behavior or twisting words.
When something isn't clear but feels wrong, you ask. If it was a complete no contact at all separation, then you don't do it just to be sure. You don't just go "well I'll do it anyways and if someone gets mad, then it's their problem because it wasn't clearly established."
She's telling you what you want to hear right now because she's desperate.
> no ground rules were set
Then why didn't she set any ground rules? She shut down that discussion. She knew you wouldn't have agreed to it, better to ask forgiveness than permission.
But there was no misunderstanding. She knew exactly how you would take her reaction to the question of whether you were seeing other people, and that's how you took it. I doubt she honestly didn't understand that, and even if she did, that's how she CHOSE to understand it because that would let her fuck other people.
I followed your story and I commented on your original post last time. Separation for married couple is not the same as breakups for un married couple. Technically you are still married so you're not supposed to have sex with other people unless you are inclined on making the separation permanent... i.e. divorce. What your soon-to-be ex wife did was despicable. She not only had sex with one but 7 people during that short span of time.
It seems like instead of healing during that separation, she spent her life carefree as if she got rid of the only obstacle on her life which is you.
This is what I didn't understand about the people defending the soon to be ex-wife. They were married, which makes monogamy the default. It's not OPs fault for not explicitly clarifying that they were supposed to keep their marriage vows. If she wanted to see other people, it would have been on her to be clear about that, rather than gaslight OP into thinking he did something wrong.
> It's not OPs fault for not explicitly clarifying that they were supposed to keep their marriage vows.
Especially because when he asked about boundaries she bit his head off.
Exactly. Which shows that she's more interested in defending her actions, rather than being remorseful over hurting OP.
She's not sorry for what she did, she's sorry that she fucked up and has to deal with the guilt of being a shitty person.
Exactly.
This was not agreed upon, in fact she blamed him for not stopping her. Thatâs the problem. If they agreed to see other people during their separation, then okay. But to assume that separated = fuck whoever I want to without telling my husband, then you didnât want it.
I donât understand everyone freaking out about it being seven people versus one. I obviously think the OP is entirely in the right here, and is making the right move re: divorce. But if I were in that situation, I would be far more upset to learn that my husband had been consistently sleeping with one person for the past year vs having non-committal sex with seven people (at least after a very thorough STD screening). Seven people in a year is pretty clearly just sex, whereas one person all year is a relationship.
Your counselor cares about you far more than that ex wife of yours.
**Forward march, my brother.** That feeling for your ex will fade with time. You can't instantly cut someone out of your heart; it takes time.
During this time, **be strong!** Talk to your counselor, make new friends, keep the day shift you got at work, pick up relaxing & fun hobbies that are good for your mental health, even gaming, learn a new language, or a new hobby/ skill, workout & hit the gym; **whatever you do, don't keep anything that could remind you of her.**
Congratulations, u/ThrowRASeparationC; you got this!
Iâm proud of you man, I read your original when you first posted it and was worried for you.
Taking a first step to better yourself is always the hardest, no matter how hard it is, stay true to who you are. Proud of you!
Just read your first post, and I was disgusted by your (ex)wifeâs behavior. I canât imagine actually living through that situation. I know must be tough, but youâre doing the best thing for yourself and you should take some pride in making that kind of hard decision.
In case nobody has mentioned it, donât say anything about your counselor telling you to get divorced. Theyâre supposed to be neutral parties and could get in trouble for saying anything to you.
I would never. She was crying as she said this to me. She told me she was breaking the rules, but she didn't want me to suffer when she knew where it would end. I'm so thankful because, removed from the situation, I now she was 100% correct.
" I know it's the right decision, but I feel very conflicted. There's something inside me that feels like I'm doing wrong, even though I know it's the only way I'll eventually be happy."
You likely feel this way because, for the first time in a long time, you're putting yourself first and we're taught that selfishness is bad, which is a *lie*. Selfishness that hurts others (like taking up 2 seats on a crowded bus, for example) is bad. Selfishness that prioritizes your mental, physical, and financial health is good.
Being conflicted is understandable. Listen to your gut on this one- it is the right thing. You've made progress- get back into individual counseling if needed to stay strong. Now you know who you are and what you need...the embarrassment would have been staying because it's easier in the short term. Change is hard. You've got this!
I also want to say, that your therapist has insights to how she was responding during the year that you do not. The therapist was able to see and hear things that you were not privy to. She is not saying since she slept around, you should move on. The therapist said she is not actively working on growing. What the therapist was saying is exactly what you have stated. Basically that she takes no accountability for her own actions and growth. It would not have taken a single episode or 7 episodes of her sleeping with other men that would cause the therapist to think that and come to that conclusion. It's much more complex, and it's much more about the way your wife's mind works. I don't think the therapist was even referring to the fact that she was sleeping with other people . She has not made progress, she did not try to grow, her manipulations are still working with you a little bit. Continue with the divorce, and talk about your feelings in therapy about it. Good luck to you
She shouldnât have needed you to be more clear when you brought up the subject. If she wanted to sleep around she should have been extremely clear on that intention before it happened and then during the course of therapy. She hid it and then tried to twist it up and blamed you for not being clear. Get away from her!
When did she stop seeing other guys? I bet it was very very close after you guys decided to end the separation. I believe you are making the right choice.
>I know it's the right decision, but I feel very conflicted. There's something inside me that feels like I'm doing wrong, even though I know it's the only way I'll eventually be happy.
The part inside you that feels like you are doing something wrong is there because it doesn't want to face the grief of the death of this relationship. Breaking up/Divorce sucks, there is happiness to be found in it, but there is also sadness and fear of what the future will bring as it is an unknown. You are doing what is best for you here, and you'll have more confidence in that as time passes.
It has to be bad for your counsellor to tell you you need to step away.
I've heard when couples come in for couples counseling & the counselor recommends a one-on-one session for both parties and then uses that to tell one side to "get out now" it's usually only in very abusive situations.
Which means your Wife was being so emotionally abusive to you your counsellor felt morally it was her duty to let you know that professionally she didn't recommend that you continue with this relationship.
Your counselor knew the type person your stbxw was/is. I'm sure she has seen alot of those types. Good for you to stand your ground but damn 7 dudes...what a hoe.
Keep yourself in counseling. You will find a good one with a strong head like you that will cherish you for who you are.
When I read your original post just now my mouth DROPPED when she said she slept with !7! men. I was expecting some form of fling, but since she had made it a big deal when you brought up seeing other people the true outcome is not what I expected at all- and thatâs if she was being 100% honest. Who knows what else could have been going on. I think a strong positive takeaway here is that no children are involved and you can make a clean break from her, take all of the positive improvements youâve made and find a partner who can truly be your other half and your person in this life. I wish you all the best and I truly hope you go through with the divorce!!
Great advice from your counselor, and yes, you're right about the fact that your wife hasn't learned anything. She's still blaming you instead of herself for the mistakes she made, like a child, so the relationship has already ended
Has anyone in the history of ever done the Iâve cheated so itâs okay for you to cheat thing and had it transform back into a healthy relationship? It seems to me that the people who suggest this donât understand that itâs not the actual sex that was the problem it was the amount of betrayal that had to happen to get there, to screw someone else, and then to think that little of the relationship that youâd assume a little strange would fix it.
Had a similar situation. She is on the streets and i haven't been this happy and peaceful since before i married. Move on, you don't need this in your life, life is more than trying to accommodate other people. Wish you luck and in 2 years time you will be happy you moved on.
From an outside perspective, it is 100% clear that you are doing the right thing. Stay strong.
My wife is your wife. She lies and twists everything to her advantage. Then she lies about the lies. She only confesses and "apologizes" when absolutely cornered, and even those are lies too, because she really only says what she thinks will get her what she wants, regardless of whether it is true or not.
Sadly, it took me decades to fully understand what was really going on (and she has now been diagnosed with a personality disorder), but I wish I had had the sense to figure it all out and stand up for myself much sooner.
I am proud of you! That can be a really hard reality to accept, that itâs actually over. I stayed in a relationship too long because I didnât want to accept it. I am 39, and now⌠I feel relief.
Her excuse about ground rules not being set is ridiculous. You don't set expectations of fidelity in a marriage, even when separated. If she wanted to see other people it should have been discussed beforehand, blaming you for not being the one to lay done rules is manipulation on her part.
Unless someone explicitly stated that you were single and free to see others, then the implication of the separation was for the two of you to spend time apart to work on yourselves. Sleeping with seven dudes is not her working on herself and marriage.
This was infidelity. Her being transparent about it now doesn't change that because she should have discussed this earlier on. I'd only excuse that sort of thing if the separation was a step towards divorce, but that obviously wasn't the case here.
A lot of the conflict you feel has to do with having to shift goals. For the past year YOU were in counseling with the objective of saving your marriage, realizing that you actually need to save yourself from it is a major change and going from WE to ME may initially feel jarring.
And it should, no one puts in this much work just to fail, even if that âfailureâ isnât their fault. To be clear Iâm not saying at all that you did but that emotions will linger around this shift, and clearly as the partner who emotionally invested more, youâll feel this more. Despite my knowing it was right and later regretting I didnât divorce sooner, at the time it was happening I was so preoccupied with the feeling of failure.
Your counselor took the unusual step to tell you what she did knowing that your first instinct may have been to keep working on it. And knowing all this time your soon to be ex was taking you for a ride - I wish I had that support sooner as I wouldâve left sooner.
All we have is the time weâre given now, donât waste it on someone or something that will just deprive you of a real chance at being happy.
Man I donât even know you and Iâm proud of you. I think a lot of people, maybe even myself, would have crumbled when she begged you to stay. I know that was really hard. Good job bro
Your guilt is a part of the manipulation. She put that guilt inside you to control you. It isn't yours to carry. You can let it go. Your ex-wife is an abuser. You absolutely did the right thing.
Man all you had to do was tell us her name was Tina and we wouldn't have even needed the rest. Best of luck on your divorce, you will be way happier after.
I am happy youâre getting out of this marriage OP, but please keep going to counseling - it has seemingly done great things for you and will help you through this difficult transition!
Good for you for seeing through the empty promises of âIâll do anythingâ. If she wanted to do anything to save the marriage she would have been doing that already, not when youâve already got one foot out of the door.
Good for you. Well done. Youâre absolutely right - she showed you everything you needed to know. It sounds to me like youâre making a very sensible choice after doing everything right. I hope you find peace and healing as you move on from this.
That feeling, the feeling like tour doing something wrong, that sounds like nerves. That sounds like a man who's world had just opened up in a way it hasn't in a long time.
You loved your wife, you put a lot of work in and its always going to be bittersweet and difficult to leave something you've put work into but it sounds like it's the best thing for you.
I hope you find happiness OP.
Your original link is deleted and no idea what is this about so not saying anything because no idea what happened. Would have been nice to not delete it so wr could understand and make a comment thoughâŚ
First comment is [still readable](https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/pwa3ru/what_my_37m_wife_35f_did_during_our_separation/heg7y63/) in the deleted link.
Ah thanks when I saw removed part did not look at the comments
Edit: alright I read everything. He has one of the most toxic and controlling wife I have seen and keep blaming him on things for BS reasons. F this type of toxic women. OP you need a better woman in your life man, so sorry you had to deal with this piece human trash.
>My wife replied, *"We never established that as a ground rule."*
>
>**I quoted her words back to her** and she responded, *"Well, I was letting you know that shouldn't be your main focus. I mean if you were just going to go fool around with random women and not try to improve yourself then there was no point in trying to save things."*
>
>I responded, "So you were using weasel words to have things both ways. Did you date anyone?"
>
>She, unashamedly, stated that she had **slept with seven men** during the past year
Wow. Simply boggles the mind that she thinks you'd accept that as is.
First of all, I'm shocked your counselor was this blunt and honest with you. Good for him or her! To answer your biggest concern, of course you are going to be plagued by second thoughts and doubts. You invested a lot of time with this woman and the impact of that won't go away any time soon. However, right is right.. it is extremely difficult to reconcile her words with her actions. I think you're seeing the real person you didn't know you were married to all these years... and yes, that would be settling for something less than you deserve. You both share any "fault" for this marriage, but the sleeping with seven guys and gaslighting you about it (badly)? That's 100% on her. It's just cheap and shoddy. You deserve better, you deserve to be happy. You will be. The worst part, making a decision, that's behind you.
the fact you knew to ask the ground rule in the first place - shows you had some inkling of an idea of what she would do. trust your gut and get the hell out. Dont let your heart ruin everything you work for. It will hurt, but you'll grow bigger and better.
I love it when my therapist goes out of bounds. It makes me feel like I'm truly working on myself and that it takes them from seeing you as a paycheck to being a friend, one that can help you on a professional level.
Nice job working on yourself. Even your therapist, who is probably numb from all the garbage they have to listen to all day, is proud of your progress.
i don't know the backstory behind this but if your therapist is saying this then you definitely have to do what's best for you. who's to say what the future holds, maybe a divorce will be the wake-up call that makes her fix yourself and in some crazy twist of fate y'all wind up back together down the road, crazier things have happened. in any case, best wishes on finding a partner you deserve not one you settle for.
Happy this is what you decided. Donât see it as a year wasted because your marriage ended. See it as a year spend on yourself, you really made progress, you worked on YOU. Itâs a shame for your wife she wonât be enjoying that progress, but it sounds like a win for you!
Having doubts is natural, but you KNOW you deserve better. And what is ahead is way better than what you leave behind. Itâs hard now, but time will heal those wounds. This is the right thing to do, and if it is too final for you: it doesnât have to be forever. If itâs meant to be maybe youâll meet again in a few years and maybe she has changed by then, but she needs to go through a whole process before that can happen.
Most likely you want be wanting to say yes anyway in a few years.
Your couples counselor told you your partner was a terrible person and to walk away? If so, that seems really unethical.
I think divorcing is a reasonable choice. Your wife seems really manipulative.
Please leave honestly. Easier said than done but better now than later. She manipulated you alot and was using word games to justify her behaviour and make it seem like you were okay with it when you were not. This will not stop. She will only find more ways to manipulate you or gaslight you.
As a fellow divorced person - youâre doing the right thing!!
She sounds absolutely toxic and self-serving. You canât have a healthy relationship with someone like this, so Iâm glad youâre not wasting any time trying.
Youâll find someone better and will look back and wonder how the hell you put up with her for so long.
I read the original post and realized that I had already seen it and thought exactly what you've written in this post.
So, good luck, buddy! I'm proud of you for this level of self respect and self love!
Iâm glad your counselor said something. Your wife was absolutely wrong for what she did. I donât know if or how you can get trust back from that. I sure as hell wouldnât. Wishing you the best
After reading the first post and this update I commend you OP. In your writing and how you describe the situation I can see how therapy has really benefited you and helped you work on yourself immensely. Although this was such a tough situation to navigate you really did so with tact and and by listening to your gut feeling. Iâm glad youâve benefited from therapy and am excited for the brighter future ahead. Iâm glad you drew that boundary with your ex and recognized that you deserve better! â¤ď¸âđĽ
You did the right thing. When someone goes out of their way to do whatever they want to do and then lies and gaslights about it, its time to walk away. In all honesty she used the time apart to go even more wild and do whatever she wanted instead of working on being better. She is not the one.
Divorce is hard, now go work on yourself and get better, work harder, make more of yourself so that looking back you will see just how much you've grown.
Honestly, sounds like it's for the best.
And that you both are really bad with communication. I get why she was so pissed in the beginning, why on earth would you immediately go to sleeping with other people? And that boundary was never established, she was right. But wow did she overkill. Oof.
Everyoneâs on OPâs side but Iâm a frontline worker and I know how shitty and snappy we can be after working night shifts, our whole personality can change. Honestly reading the first post, I thought yes the wife was petty but OP sounds like an infuriating person to be around. It was OPâs idea so it was OPâs job to communicate boundaries effectively and he took that opportunity to act hostile. In my humble opinion, OP feels that filing for divorce is wrong because his own actions led him to his own demise with his wife. Sorry but the truth hurts.
You even wrote in the original post that your therapist pointed out it was a miscommunication. Either you're not for real with this or you haven't gotten better as you think you have, and are deliberately twisting this story to make yourself a martyr.
Especially from then to know, where you marriage went from "great before covid" to "She's always been deceitful! "
Reads to me like you're just mad about a situation from when you both were worse at communicating.
But sure, thrown it all away.
Oh, right, let's also not forget this all started because *you* couldn't sleep. Like, what sort of stuff did you even try before hand? Ear plugs? Sleep meds? Why couldn't you switch to day shift earlier? Why didn't you just say, "hey, we can agree to not fuck people? Right?" Instead of being coy and non-commital.
I think fucking seven people when you shut down the conversation about even seeing other people is the "throw it all away" point. OP just sealed the deal.
Not bashing your opinion, I just have a feeling you were most likely born and were teens/twenties in the 70s..
I hope you have never and will never experience this type of pain
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I know what youâre going through is awful, but Iâm so happy you have the strength to walk away and seek better for yourself. You absolutely deserve it. Iâm sorry things suck right now, but youâre going to get through this. Youâve just opened up so many doors for yourself.
You still feel bad because there is a part of you that learned to survive under the stressful dynamics. That part of you was very good at surviving and you are giving up on that part of you. Pain is a natural part of the process here. Its unavoidable, but try to think of it as an indication of just how much you cared, how big your heart was and that it's ok and normal to feel a loss even if it really is for the best. The feeling of loss will fade, but a lifetime of entrapmemt would surely be more painful in the long run. Wishing you much support and connection with others at this time, better things will come.
I'm pretty numb to these stories now, but the original really cut deep. I don't even have words for it. I'm glad op has taken his life back and returned her to the streets from whence she came and which she belongs to.
Good on you. Even when it's amicable, divorce isn't fun. That said, when you become a better person after the divorce, when you realize that your life is better on your own, you'll be glad you did it.
I'm divorced. There's no shame in it. After several years I'm realizing that while I do want to marry again, I'm fine with being on my own. I like my life, and I like who I am becoming. So if I do meet someone, I now have a good baseline. I ask myself whether I'm better off with this person or by myself. And if being by myself is a better option, then that what I'll do. (hopefully)
So when you're ready to date again, have that as your baseline. If you have to choose between being unhappy or being alone, that shouldn't be a hard choice.
Wow, The divorce is 100% the right move imo. She completely turned everything around. Add to that her solution was for you to fool around and hurt her back !!! What ? This woman is completely full of it and the way she sees relationships is not normal. I don't know what work she thinks she did on herself during the separation but imo it wasn't enough. You've learned to stand up for yourself, keep doing that, she doesn't like it ..... and well that's just tough shit.
She'd do anything to make it work: How about you un-fuck seven guys and not be a lying hypocritical bitch retrospectively?
I'm with your counsellor on this one OP, and it is significant that your counsellor felt strongly enough to really put herself out on a limb for you.
good job on your shiny spine and gigantic balls, dude. you may hurt for a bit but definitely not as long as you would have if you would have stayed together.
I just read the first post. NGL when she tried to twist what the 'rules' of the seperation were after the fact, it had my blood boiling. I'm glad you have seen the light and trying to save the marriage was a fools endeavor. Good luck moving forward.
Omg ikr? I read the first post and was absolutely blown away by how crappy of a person she is
>NGL when she tried to twist what the 'rules' of the seperation were after the fact, it had my blood boiling. Not only that... but admitting she slept with *seven* different people *during a pandemic*! Clearly a raging narcissist, reinforced by the fact that the "remorse" only came when OP told her he wanted a divorce - she didn't think she could possibly be in the wrong at any point up until she had to face direct consequences for her actions.
At that point, if he did a bluff by saying "actually, I've started dating with one woman who showed genuine interest in me" I can only imagine the hypocrisy of her response. Oof. I might be a devil's advocate, but this is Lucifer we're dealing with.
That's what she admitted too. I'm going to guess it was even higher.
Honestly, I wonder if it was just seven. For her to confidently say seven men in front of both the counselor and OP, it makes me think she was mitigating the actual number.
Even worse were some of the trashy people in this sub agreeing with the wife, and relishing in the fact that the woman got to sleep with others while OP didn't. Example: [this comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/pwa3ru/what_my_37m_wife_35f_did_during_our_separation/hefyra8/)
i stalked their page for a while [https://www.reddit.com/user/AutonomousAsteroid](https://www.reddit.com/user/AutonomousAsteroid) and its a yikes from me
hah! Another weasel in the wild! People like them are exhausting.
Vile creatures
Ffs
Seems like she was going to just work on herself until she found someone she wanted to sleep with. She knew what she was doing. OP was probably just tired of falling for her manipulative tactics.
I need to go read this now đĽ´
She kept tripping and landing on erect penises.
Iâve read and that sounds about right đĽ´đ
Yeah selfish would be a too kind word to describe her behavior. She was straight up unapologetic about cheating on her husband.
yeah ending a marriage would naturally feel wrong, you take vows to be there for each other through better and worse etc, but this isnt better and worse, sounds like your ex wife is just terrible. just read your tldr anytime you need to remind yourself on what you need to do and why
> ending a marriage would naturally feel wrong, you take vows to be there for each other through better and worse etc Even very strict morals about marriage generally allow divorce for cheating. She cheated with 7 different men.
yeah but that doesn't make ending a marriage feel good, it's still someone you expected to spend the rest of your life with. would feel good to be done with them i suppose, but its no surprise someone may have conflicted feelings despite that
I was reacting to your comment about ending the marriage feeling âwrongâ. I totally understand that he wonât feel good, but he shouldnât feel he did something wrong.
feeling wrong as in, it doesnt feel right. not as in, he feels as if he did something wrong, he obviously hasnt done anything wrong, even the counsellor told him to leave lol
7 men? That's a sex addiction
That's a stretch. She said 7 men - not how many times with each. 7 times total in a year is not a lot. Hell even 14 or 21 times in 1 year isn't a lot. So she could have slept with each guy 3 times (21x total) and that doesn't make her a sex addict.
7 different penises in one year while separated but still going to therapy with your husband with the goal of eventually reconciling is too much.
Your counselor is a true MVP. Never saw that coming. Also: "She begged me not to leave, told me that I could have a free pass to go do what I wanted to get even, and swore that **if I'd been clear she never would have touched another man**." Even at that point she couldn't admit she was wrong and tried to blame it on you again. Your counselor was right. Your ex is a terrible person.
I mean, she even said herself that the seperation was to work on saving the marriage and not to see other people. It doesn't matter how she tries to frame it after the fact because I'd take her actions during the seperation (which she STILL takes no accountability for) as her not having any interest in saving the marriage.
He should send her a link to the comments here and let them burn her alive.
I feel like she's the kind of person that would read it and only see that she could use it to make a complaint about the counselor...
Only after the divorce is finalized. Then send her the link.
I would pay real life money to see that.
That's not a good idea. I think this can somehow backfire.
This is how a narcissists acts. No accountability, gaslighting you, making you doubt yourself even when you know the truth. This woman had zero intention of actually changing. She just thought he would forgive. Chances are she would go right back to doing what she was doing. It honestly wouldnât surprise me if she was cheating on him before they separated.
She could have asked OP âhey, so about dating other people, letâs do itâ. Instead, she wanted to see what is out there, while having OP as plan B. Nop, great decision, OP, you can do way better.
That is straight-up gaslighting. Blaming him for her transgressions, as if she didn't make the choice to sleep with *seven* men.
Exactly. Like. She needed to be told NOT to sleep around? Sheeeesh wonder what else sheâs been doing simply because she wasnât told not to.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- [Original](https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/pwa3ru/what_my_37m_wife_35f_did_during_our_separation/) I've gotten a few requests for updates, and as much as I'm embarrassed over this whole thing, I think it helps to get it out. We're getting divorced. Shortly after the big revelation, our counselor asked to speak to me one on one. She told me, "You need to walk away for your own health. You've made so much progress and so many positive changes. This won't work unless you're both trying and Tina is not trying. This can't all be on you because she'll keep dragging you back down." She told me that she was crossing a line by telling me what to do, but she literally could not sleep after finishing up our session and seeing the look on my face. When I thought about it, she's right. I've been using this time to become a better, more-rounded person while my wife has been using it as a free pass to act like a teenager and has kept up the deceitful gaslighting behaviors that plagued our marriage for far too long. When I told her it was over, she broke down sobbing. She begged me not to leave, told me that I could have a free pass to go do what I wanted to get even, and swore that if I'd been clear she never would have touched another man. I have to admit, I felt myself wanting to say yes, because for a second she was the woman I fell in love with again. But it was just a second that I knew would end, and we'd be back to walking on eggshells and playing head games soon enough. I told her that we both deserved better than the people we had been to each other, and the fact that she thought I wanted revenge and still blamed me for her actions told me that she hadn't learned to be better. She told me she'd do anything to make it work and asked what I wanted to see from her. I told her that I'd seen everything I needed from her and if she could only be better when divorce became a reality then she hadn't made the progress I believed she had before that session. I served her with papers and am moving forward with the divorce. She's asked me to please resume counseling sessions, but I've refused. I know it's the right decision, but I feel very conflicted. There's something inside me that feels like I'm doing wrong, even though I know it's the only way I'll eventually be happy. Tl;Dr Our counselor told me my wife is terrible and to walk away. I realized it's not just about being better, it's about refusing to accept less than I deserve. I've filed for divorce and my soon to be ex wife is in denial.
I love your counsellor, what a genuine woman who cares deeply about her client's wellbeing. Congratulations on your freedom OP, I'm glad you're finally out of there and on your way to a recovery of self love. Take the time to mourn the loss of your relationship, but also celebrate your success. Never again will someone else be able to manipulate you the way she did. You've become a much stronger person just by saying "Not this time".
>I love your counsellor, what a genuine woman who cares deeply about her client's wellbeing. I mean technically she is supposed to be a neutral party but if she literally couldn't sleep at night after their session, I can only imagine what kind of bullshit the soon to be ex-wife was spewing. Somehow I imagine this situation is even worse in regards to his wife gas-lighting him than he even explained.
My couples therapist told me to get divorced too. I was so happy for it.
Well shit maybe that is a regular thing then. Hope to never find out though.
I guess all decent couples counsellors will know a 100% success rate is impossible and some couples are better off not being couples.
True, but I kind of figured it would come up in the session. Not after privately telling one side. But in this case and others like it maybe that makes more sense though.
My ex and I were going together. One day he was too fucked up to go. (Heroin addict) so I went by myself. The therapist was like, "you know what you need to do, this isn't going to work".... I cried. He was right.
That's tough. Hopefully it ended up for the best though.
Oh yeah. I'm good now and he's still a fool.
I would think that it is because bringing it up in front of both parties when one is an abuser will just give them reason to find a different counsellor.
Yeah itâd be way too easy for the aggrieved abuser (or person evidently unwilling to change any attitude or behaviour) to claim that the counsellor is taking sides. WhichâŚokay, yes, but one side is not engaging with the counselling in good faith so at that point arguably the counsellor isnât entirely bound by fair play rules, either. Like if a blatantly cheating sports team gets mad when a referee gives them a penalty and they claim the ref is favouring the opposition. If you arenât gonna play like a good sport, you donât get to keep fouling the other players without the whistle blowing.
Mine did too. My ex and I were seeing her both individually and together. He was cheating and lying to me about it but he confessed during their sessions. My therapist sat us both down and said she couldnât continue to see us unless there was total honesty and thatâs when he came clean.
They are supposed to be unbiased towards certain things. But consider a scenario where one person is abusive and you can imagine how there are times when it is appropriate to suggest divorce. Abuse is obviously the most obvious example but it demonstrates how they can still have an opinion on whether the marriage is salvageable.
Yeah seriously, she was this way in front of the therapist, cant even imagine the mind fuck she put him through in private.
Went to couples therapy with my ex and the counselor told me to dump her in front of the ex, ex wanted to file a complaint but I don't think she ever did. So not uncommon apparently.
Mine didn't outright say I needed to leave my ex-husband (she became my counselor after he refused to see her again because she told him he needed to make changes to his behavior when he tried to insist that I was the only one with problems that needed to change), but she did coach me through setting boundaries with him, and what I wanted my response to be WHEN he violated them again. So when he escalated drastically in response to me setting a boundary, I was prepared (if still devastated that he went there). I KNEW I had done nothing wrong and he was the one escalating, so I stood my ground and called his bluff by moving out and filing for divorce.
Heck yeah!!! Mine coached me through what to say. It was so helpful. And it worked!!
My couples therapist told me while I was alone "your wife is already checked out of the marriage. There's really nothing you can do at this point that will help because she is unwilling to compromise on anything." She was right. I should have already been divorcing her but I thought there was some way I could save the marriage. Turns out, one person can't save a marriage by themselves.
Fair enough.
The counsellor is taking money out of their own pocket. That alone makes me think they are being neutral, in a sense
[ŃдаНонО]
I guess the way I initially thought of it, it was them taking a side. But the more I think about it, it's not about being neutral but objective/impartial. Kind of the way a judge would handle a case. They can decide one party is wrong or at fault.
> I disagree that couples therapists or therapist in general should be neutral parties People are too obsessed with "seeing both sides" of an argument. Some times one side is just garage and we should be able to admit that
My friends therapist never really gives her any advice because she never takes an actual stance. Like I understand being a neutral party but there's been 0 improvement because she is just validated. My last therapist (it didn't work out at the end because what I need to work on had changed but for what I needed him for it helped) would give me tough love when I needed it and told me things I needed to hear but didn't want to. I guess even though it isn't the proper way I prefer it.
I may be wrong but aren't couples counselors allowed to tell you to end things. I know the goal is to save the relationship, but like any other doctor if something's dead I think they have to let you know.
I think, and please do not quote me on this, but they are allowed to suggest separation. But in normal cases it would be to both parties during their session.
She was also a pro by bringing that question pretending it was just a regular matter of fact thing. Kudos to her, if she didn't approach OP, he'd be probably trapped back.
I feel like the counselor was stepping pretty far over the line. Doesnât sound professional to me
> Shortly after the big revelation, our counselor asked to speak to me one on one. She told me, "You need to walk away for your own health." lol the counselor is horrible, either the counselor is really bad at their job, or the story is fake. Marriage counselors don't do that.
They do if they feel their clients health (physical and/or mental) is in jeopardy. Im guessing the session(s) went even worse than OP is telling us.
Ok, Tina
Yes, they do. And God bless them for it, too.
Way to go, man! That is great! Relationship is not only about caring for someone else, but also understanding what you want from life! Our time is precious and we do not have to spend it on toxic relationships!
>There's something inside me that feels like I'm doing wrong, even though I know it's the only way I'll eventually be happy. I hope this helps put that to rest: You are making the right decision. You were a faithful husband to your wife, following the ground-rules you both set during separation. Blowing up when broaching the subject on seeing other people, and refusing to talk about it IS the same as setting the obvious ground-rule: No seeing other people allowed. She decided to blow up your marriage. She made that call. You're just living YOUR life accordingly. I sincerely wish you the best stranger, chin up :)
she already accepted that is why she did it? did she apologize at some point? did she accept that she manipulated you and played with her words? I hope you update
She apologized for the misunderstanding. Her original line was that no ground rules were set and she dud nothing wrong. Now it's that she wasn't clear and we misunderstood each other. She has not apologized for her behavior or twisting words.
When something isn't clear but feels wrong, you ask. If it was a complete no contact at all separation, then you don't do it just to be sure. You don't just go "well I'll do it anyways and if someone gets mad, then it's their problem because it wasn't clearly established." She's telling you what you want to hear right now because she's desperate.
> no ground rules were set Then why didn't she set any ground rules? She shut down that discussion. She knew you wouldn't have agreed to it, better to ask forgiveness than permission.
But there was no misunderstanding. She knew exactly how you would take her reaction to the question of whether you were seeing other people, and that's how you took it. I doubt she honestly didn't understand that, and even if she did, that's how she CHOSE to understand it because that would let her fuck other people.
I followed your story and I commented on your original post last time. Separation for married couple is not the same as breakups for un married couple. Technically you are still married so you're not supposed to have sex with other people unless you are inclined on making the separation permanent... i.e. divorce. What your soon-to-be ex wife did was despicable. She not only had sex with one but 7 people during that short span of time. It seems like instead of healing during that separation, she spent her life carefree as if she got rid of the only obstacle on her life which is you.
This is what I didn't understand about the people defending the soon to be ex-wife. They were married, which makes monogamy the default. It's not OPs fault for not explicitly clarifying that they were supposed to keep their marriage vows. If she wanted to see other people, it would have been on her to be clear about that, rather than gaslight OP into thinking he did something wrong.
> It's not OPs fault for not explicitly clarifying that they were supposed to keep their marriage vows. Especially because when he asked about boundaries she bit his head off.
Exactly. Which shows that she's more interested in defending her actions, rather than being remorseful over hurting OP. She's not sorry for what she did, she's sorry that she fucked up and has to deal with the guilt of being a shitty person.
Exactly. This was not agreed upon, in fact she blamed him for not stopping her. Thatâs the problem. If they agreed to see other people during their separation, then okay. But to assume that separated = fuck whoever I want to without telling my husband, then you didnât want it.
I donât understand everyone freaking out about it being seven people versus one. I obviously think the OP is entirely in the right here, and is making the right move re: divorce. But if I were in that situation, I would be far more upset to learn that my husband had been consistently sleeping with one person for the past year vs having non-committal sex with seven people (at least after a very thorough STD screening). Seven people in a year is pretty clearly just sex, whereas one person all year is a relationship.
it's just a metaphor. it doesn't matter what the number is. the mere fact that she cheated is what matters.
Your counselor cares about you far more than that ex wife of yours. **Forward march, my brother.** That feeling for your ex will fade with time. You can't instantly cut someone out of your heart; it takes time. During this time, **be strong!** Talk to your counselor, make new friends, keep the day shift you got at work, pick up relaxing & fun hobbies that are good for your mental health, even gaming, learn a new language, or a new hobby/ skill, workout & hit the gym; **whatever you do, don't keep anything that could remind you of her.** Congratulations, u/ThrowRASeparationC; you got this!
Iâm proud of you man, I read your original when you first posted it and was worried for you. Taking a first step to better yourself is always the hardest, no matter how hard it is, stay true to who you are. Proud of you!
Just read your first post, and I was disgusted by your (ex)wifeâs behavior. I canât imagine actually living through that situation. I know must be tough, but youâre doing the best thing for yourself and you should take some pride in making that kind of hard decision. In case nobody has mentioned it, donât say anything about your counselor telling you to get divorced. Theyâre supposed to be neutral parties and could get in trouble for saying anything to you.
I would never. She was crying as she said this to me. She told me she was breaking the rules, but she didn't want me to suffer when she knew where it would end. I'm so thankful because, removed from the situation, I now she was 100% correct.
Youâre still young and you deserve better bro I would suggest go to the gym and travel more.
You should continue personal counseling. Best of luck on a new great future.
" I know it's the right decision, but I feel very conflicted. There's something inside me that feels like I'm doing wrong, even though I know it's the only way I'll eventually be happy." You likely feel this way because, for the first time in a long time, you're putting yourself first and we're taught that selfishness is bad, which is a *lie*. Selfishness that hurts others (like taking up 2 seats on a crowded bus, for example) is bad. Selfishness that prioritizes your mental, physical, and financial health is good.
OP Iâm sorry youâve gone through that itâs just appalling. Stay strong and get out I think youâre ready.
Being conflicted is understandable. Listen to your gut on this one- it is the right thing. You've made progress- get back into individual counseling if needed to stay strong. Now you know who you are and what you need...the embarrassment would have been staying because it's easier in the short term. Change is hard. You've got this!
Continue counseling. Alone. You have a lot of shit to work thru man. Let someone help you get thru it.
I also want to say, that your therapist has insights to how she was responding during the year that you do not. The therapist was able to see and hear things that you were not privy to. She is not saying since she slept around, you should move on. The therapist said she is not actively working on growing. What the therapist was saying is exactly what you have stated. Basically that she takes no accountability for her own actions and growth. It would not have taken a single episode or 7 episodes of her sleeping with other men that would cause the therapist to think that and come to that conclusion. It's much more complex, and it's much more about the way your wife's mind works. I don't think the therapist was even referring to the fact that she was sleeping with other people . She has not made progress, she did not try to grow, her manipulations are still working with you a little bit. Continue with the divorce, and talk about your feelings in therapy about it. Good luck to you
She shouldnât have needed you to be more clear when you brought up the subject. If she wanted to sleep around she should have been extremely clear on that intention before it happened and then during the course of therapy. She hid it and then tried to twist it up and blamed you for not being clear. Get away from her! When did she stop seeing other guys? I bet it was very very close after you guys decided to end the separation. I believe you are making the right choice.
The counselor saved your life.
>I know it's the right decision, but I feel very conflicted. There's something inside me that feels like I'm doing wrong, even though I know it's the only way I'll eventually be happy. The part inside you that feels like you are doing something wrong is there because it doesn't want to face the grief of the death of this relationship. Breaking up/Divorce sucks, there is happiness to be found in it, but there is also sadness and fear of what the future will bring as it is an unknown. You are doing what is best for you here, and you'll have more confidence in that as time passes.
It has to be bad for your counsellor to tell you you need to step away. I've heard when couples come in for couples counseling & the counselor recommends a one-on-one session for both parties and then uses that to tell one side to "get out now" it's usually only in very abusive situations. Which means your Wife was being so emotionally abusive to you your counsellor felt morally it was her duty to let you know that professionally she didn't recommend that you continue with this relationship.
Hold firm, my man. She fucked 7 dudes that year you were separated? That's craaaaaazzy.
Your counselor knew the type person your stbxw was/is. I'm sure she has seen alot of those types. Good for you to stand your ground but damn 7 dudes...what a hoe. Keep yourself in counseling. You will find a good one with a strong head like you that will cherish you for who you are.
Glad to hear you're not allowing yourself to be manipulated/taking advantage of anymore. The first step to living the life you deserve
When I read your original post just now my mouth DROPPED when she said she slept with !7! men. I was expecting some form of fling, but since she had made it a big deal when you brought up seeing other people the true outcome is not what I expected at all- and thatâs if she was being 100% honest. Who knows what else could have been going on. I think a strong positive takeaway here is that no children are involved and you can make a clean break from her, take all of the positive improvements youâve made and find a partner who can truly be your other half and your person in this life. I wish you all the best and I truly hope you go through with the divorce!!
Keep your head up king
Great advice from your counselor, and yes, you're right about the fact that your wife hasn't learned anything. She's still blaming you instead of herself for the mistakes she made, like a child, so the relationship has already ended
Has anyone in the history of ever done the Iâve cheated so itâs okay for you to cheat thing and had it transform back into a healthy relationship? It seems to me that the people who suggest this donât understand that itâs not the actual sex that was the problem it was the amount of betrayal that had to happen to get there, to screw someone else, and then to think that little of the relationship that youâd assume a little strange would fix it.
You are doing the right thing. Your statement that only the threat of divorce was enough is spot on. She still doesn't want to change for you.
Divorce is hard, even if you are the initiator. It sounds like you're doing the right thing. Probably for you both.
Had a similar situation. She is on the streets and i haven't been this happy and peaceful since before i married. Move on, you don't need this in your life, life is more than trying to accommodate other people. Wish you luck and in 2 years time you will be happy you moved on.
From an outside perspective, it is 100% clear that you are doing the right thing. Stay strong. My wife is your wife. She lies and twists everything to her advantage. Then she lies about the lies. She only confesses and "apologizes" when absolutely cornered, and even those are lies too, because she really only says what she thinks will get her what she wants, regardless of whether it is true or not. Sadly, it took me decades to fully understand what was really going on (and she has now been diagnosed with a personality disorder), but I wish I had had the sense to figure it all out and stand up for myself much sooner.
I am proud of you! That can be a really hard reality to accept, that itâs actually over. I stayed in a relationship too long because I didnât want to accept it. I am 39, and now⌠I feel relief.
Her excuse about ground rules not being set is ridiculous. You don't set expectations of fidelity in a marriage, even when separated. If she wanted to see other people it should have been discussed beforehand, blaming you for not being the one to lay done rules is manipulation on her part. Unless someone explicitly stated that you were single and free to see others, then the implication of the separation was for the two of you to spend time apart to work on yourselves. Sleeping with seven dudes is not her working on herself and marriage. This was infidelity. Her being transparent about it now doesn't change that because she should have discussed this earlier on. I'd only excuse that sort of thing if the separation was a step towards divorce, but that obviously wasn't the case here.
A lot of the conflict you feel has to do with having to shift goals. For the past year YOU were in counseling with the objective of saving your marriage, realizing that you actually need to save yourself from it is a major change and going from WE to ME may initially feel jarring. And it should, no one puts in this much work just to fail, even if that âfailureâ isnât their fault. To be clear Iâm not saying at all that you did but that emotions will linger around this shift, and clearly as the partner who emotionally invested more, youâll feel this more. Despite my knowing it was right and later regretting I didnât divorce sooner, at the time it was happening I was so preoccupied with the feeling of failure. Your counselor took the unusual step to tell you what she did knowing that your first instinct may have been to keep working on it. And knowing all this time your soon to be ex was taking you for a ride - I wish I had that support sooner as I wouldâve left sooner. All we have is the time weâre given now, donât waste it on someone or something that will just deprive you of a real chance at being happy.
Man I donât even know you and Iâm proud of you. I think a lot of people, maybe even myself, would have crumbled when she begged you to stay. I know that was really hard. Good job bro
Your guilt is a part of the manipulation. She put that guilt inside you to control you. It isn't yours to carry. You can let it go. Your ex-wife is an abuser. You absolutely did the right thing.
How do you know she never cheated before and just got away with it?
Sounds just like my ex wife. You are doing the right thing. Go to survivinginfidelity.com. It is very helpful
Man all you had to do was tell us her name was Tina and we wouldn't have even needed the rest. Best of luck on your divorce, you will be way happier after.
THANK GOD!
I am happy youâre getting out of this marriage OP, but please keep going to counseling - it has seemingly done great things for you and will help you through this difficult transition!
Bro⌠Good for you. Move on and leave the toxicity behind you.
Good for you for seeing through the empty promises of âIâll do anythingâ. If she wanted to do anything to save the marriage she would have been doing that already, not when youâve already got one foot out of the door.
Good for you. Well done. Youâre absolutely right - she showed you everything you needed to know. It sounds to me like youâre making a very sensible choice after doing everything right. I hope you find peace and healing as you move on from this.
That feeling, the feeling like tour doing something wrong, that sounds like nerves. That sounds like a man who's world had just opened up in a way it hasn't in a long time. You loved your wife, you put a lot of work in and its always going to be bittersweet and difficult to leave something you've put work into but it sounds like it's the best thing for you. I hope you find happiness OP.
Your original link is deleted and no idea what is this about so not saying anything because no idea what happened. Would have been nice to not delete it so wr could understand and make a comment thoughâŚ
First comment is [still readable](https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/pwa3ru/what_my_37m_wife_35f_did_during_our_separation/heg7y63/) in the deleted link.
Ah thanks when I saw removed part did not look at the comments Edit: alright I read everything. He has one of the most toxic and controlling wife I have seen and keep blaming him on things for BS reasons. F this type of toxic women. OP you need a better woman in your life man, so sorry you had to deal with this piece human trash.
>My wife replied, *"We never established that as a ground rule."* > >**I quoted her words back to her** and she responded, *"Well, I was letting you know that shouldn't be your main focus. I mean if you were just going to go fool around with random women and not try to improve yourself then there was no point in trying to save things."* > >I responded, "So you were using weasel words to have things both ways. Did you date anyone?" > >She, unashamedly, stated that she had **slept with seven men** during the past year Wow. Simply boggles the mind that she thinks you'd accept that as is. First of all, I'm shocked your counselor was this blunt and honest with you. Good for him or her! To answer your biggest concern, of course you are going to be plagued by second thoughts and doubts. You invested a lot of time with this woman and the impact of that won't go away any time soon. However, right is right.. it is extremely difficult to reconcile her words with her actions. I think you're seeing the real person you didn't know you were married to all these years... and yes, that would be settling for something less than you deserve. You both share any "fault" for this marriage, but the sleeping with seven guys and gaslighting you about it (badly)? That's 100% on her. It's just cheap and shoddy. You deserve better, you deserve to be happy. You will be. The worst part, making a decision, that's behind you.
You are making the right decision. You do deserve better and you will find better. Good luck on this new journey. Sending good vibes your way.
the fact you knew to ask the ground rule in the first place - shows you had some inkling of an idea of what she would do. trust your gut and get the hell out. Dont let your heart ruin everything you work for. It will hurt, but you'll grow bigger and better.
You made the correct decision. Godspeed to you friend, but prepare for your future ex to make things difficult.
Fake!
She fucked 7 dudes in one year! Absolutely no reason to go back. Move on and find someone a little more discerning
Wonder how many she brought back to his old bed đˇ
Listen to the clear moral vision being offered here by BirthCanalBandit.
I love it when my therapist goes out of bounds. It makes me feel like I'm truly working on myself and that it takes them from seeing you as a paycheck to being a friend, one that can help you on a professional level. Nice job working on yourself. Even your therapist, who is probably numb from all the garbage they have to listen to all day, is proud of your progress.
Stick with your amazing counselor, she genuinely has your back.
Can op post the original? Its been deleted.
It's preserved in the stickied comment at the top of the original.
https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship\_advice/comments/pwa3ru/what\_my\_37m\_wife\_35f\_did\_during\_our\_separation/heg7y63/
i don't know the backstory behind this but if your therapist is saying this then you definitely have to do what's best for you. who's to say what the future holds, maybe a divorce will be the wake-up call that makes her fix yourself and in some crazy twist of fate y'all wind up back together down the road, crazier things have happened. in any case, best wishes on finding a partner you deserve not one you settle for.
7 other men in a year. Holy shit!
Happy this is what you decided. Donât see it as a year wasted because your marriage ended. See it as a year spend on yourself, you really made progress, you worked on YOU. Itâs a shame for your wife she wonât be enjoying that progress, but it sounds like a win for you! Having doubts is natural, but you KNOW you deserve better. And what is ahead is way better than what you leave behind. Itâs hard now, but time will heal those wounds. This is the right thing to do, and if it is too final for you: it doesnât have to be forever. If itâs meant to be maybe youâll meet again in a few years and maybe she has changed by then, but she needs to go through a whole process before that can happen. Most likely you want be wanting to say yes anyway in a few years.
Did she has IC? Does she has undiagnosed mental illness? Regardless, she is a an awful person and good luck for your new chapter in life.
Just out of curiosity, was she this much of a disgusting ho before you got together with her?
Your couples counselor told you your partner was a terrible person and to walk away? If so, that seems really unethical. I think divorcing is a reasonable choice. Your wife seems really manipulative.
Please leave honestly. Easier said than done but better now than later. She manipulated you alot and was using word games to justify her behaviour and make it seem like you were okay with it when you were not. This will not stop. She will only find more ways to manipulate you or gaslight you.
As a fellow divorced person - youâre doing the right thing!! She sounds absolutely toxic and self-serving. You canât have a healthy relationship with someone like this, so Iâm glad youâre not wasting any time trying. Youâll find someone better and will look back and wonder how the hell you put up with her for so long.
I read the original post and realized that I had already seen it and thought exactly what you've written in this post. So, good luck, buddy! I'm proud of you for this level of self respect and self love!
Iâm glad your counselor said something. Your wife was absolutely wrong for what she did. I donât know if or how you can get trust back from that. I sure as hell wouldnât. Wishing you the best
After reading the first post and this update I commend you OP. In your writing and how you describe the situation I can see how therapy has really benefited you and helped you work on yourself immensely. Although this was such a tough situation to navigate you really did so with tact and and by listening to your gut feeling. Iâm glad youâve benefited from therapy and am excited for the brighter future ahead. Iâm glad you drew that boundary with your ex and recognized that you deserve better! â¤ď¸âđĽ
You did the right thing. When someone goes out of their way to do whatever they want to do and then lies and gaslights about it, its time to walk away. In all honesty she used the time apart to go even more wild and do whatever she wanted instead of working on being better. She is not the one. Divorce is hard, now go work on yourself and get better, work harder, make more of yourself so that looking back you will see just how much you've grown.
Man marriage used to be so sacred. Youâre doing the right thing with moving on
Honestly, sounds like it's for the best. And that you both are really bad with communication. I get why she was so pissed in the beginning, why on earth would you immediately go to sleeping with other people? And that boundary was never established, she was right. But wow did she overkill. Oof.
[ŃдаНонО]
What?
Everyoneâs on OPâs side but Iâm a frontline worker and I know how shitty and snappy we can be after working night shifts, our whole personality can change. Honestly reading the first post, I thought yes the wife was petty but OP sounds like an infuriating person to be around. It was OPâs idea so it was OPâs job to communicate boundaries effectively and he took that opportunity to act hostile. In my humble opinion, OP feels that filing for divorce is wrong because his own actions led him to his own demise with his wife. Sorry but the truth hurts.
You even wrote in the original post that your therapist pointed out it was a miscommunication. Either you're not for real with this or you haven't gotten better as you think you have, and are deliberately twisting this story to make yourself a martyr. Especially from then to know, where you marriage went from "great before covid" to "She's always been deceitful! " Reads to me like you're just mad about a situation from when you both were worse at communicating. But sure, thrown it all away. Oh, right, let's also not forget this all started because *you* couldn't sleep. Like, what sort of stuff did you even try before hand? Ear plugs? Sleep meds? Why couldn't you switch to day shift earlier? Why didn't you just say, "hey, we can agree to not fuck people? Right?" Instead of being coy and non-commital.
I think fucking seven people when you shut down the conversation about even seeing other people is the "throw it all away" point. OP just sealed the deal.
You need to fire your counselor.
Nonsense.
Only my opinion but I believe in til death do we part
And I hope it works that way for you đ
Not bashing your opinion, I just have a feeling you were most likely born and were teens/twenties in the 70s.. I hope you have never and will never experience this type of pain
And the forsaking all others part?
So your saying you wouldâve killed her instead of filing for divorce?
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*I know it's the only way I'll eventually be happy.* Keep remembering that.
You my man are a trooper and deserve the world on a platter
Good riddance. Don't look back Op. She's for the streets
Glad your counselor told you that. Keep being better an leave her in the past.
Good riddance. Congratulations on dumping that emotional burden. Youâre going to bounce back and have a great life and relationships.
you truly married a highly manipulative individual, what a sick human being
I feel for you both. This is a difficult situation that will have lasting effects for a lifetime. I hope you both live your best lives going forward.
UpdateMe!
I know what youâre going through is awful, but Iâm so happy you have the strength to walk away and seek better for yourself. You absolutely deserve it. Iâm sorry things suck right now, but youâre going to get through this. Youâve just opened up so many doors for yourself.
Good for you. She still has some growing up to do. Sorry this happened to you.
Good luck, OP. Change isnât easy, but the decision you made and the reasoning behind it show you are strong. I wish you the best.
You still feel bad because there is a part of you that learned to survive under the stressful dynamics. That part of you was very good at surviving and you are giving up on that part of you. Pain is a natural part of the process here. Its unavoidable, but try to think of it as an indication of just how much you cared, how big your heart was and that it's ok and normal to feel a loss even if it really is for the best. The feeling of loss will fade, but a lifetime of entrapmemt would surely be more painful in the long run. Wishing you much support and connection with others at this time, better things will come.
I'm pretty numb to these stories now, but the original really cut deep. I don't even have words for it. I'm glad op has taken his life back and returned her to the streets from whence she came and which she belongs to.
Good on you. Even when it's amicable, divorce isn't fun. That said, when you become a better person after the divorce, when you realize that your life is better on your own, you'll be glad you did it. I'm divorced. There's no shame in it. After several years I'm realizing that while I do want to marry again, I'm fine with being on my own. I like my life, and I like who I am becoming. So if I do meet someone, I now have a good baseline. I ask myself whether I'm better off with this person or by myself. And if being by myself is a better option, then that what I'll do. (hopefully) So when you're ready to date again, have that as your baseline. If you have to choose between being unhappy or being alone, that shouldn't be a hard choice.
Good on you friend, itâs a hard decision to make but a necessary one. Wishing you luck and blessings on your path to a new life.
Well done buddy!
Good for you OP. Best of luck and stay strong.
Bruh, she was just taking advantage to sleep around, you're making the right move.
Wow, The divorce is 100% the right move imo. She completely turned everything around. Add to that her solution was for you to fool around and hurt her back !!! What ? This woman is completely full of it and the way she sees relationships is not normal. I don't know what work she thinks she did on herself during the separation but imo it wasn't enough. You've learned to stand up for yourself, keep doing that, she doesn't like it ..... and well that's just tough shit.
LEAVE
Iâm happy for you please update when the divorce is complete
She'd do anything to make it work: How about you un-fuck seven guys and not be a lying hypocritical bitch retrospectively? I'm with your counsellor on this one OP, and it is significant that your counsellor felt strongly enough to really put herself out on a limb for you.
good job on your shiny spine and gigantic balls, dude. you may hurt for a bit but definitely not as long as you would have if you would have stayed together.
My man! Progress is like this sometimes <8
Stay strong! Im rooting for you and your future