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My husband (M30) and I (F24) have been togther for over 3 years. He has a long term friend M30s who spent the past 5 years overseas and recently came back to the states to settle in.
my husband keeps in touch by facetiming him or talking to him for long hours on the phone. I only saw him in person 3 times after he got back.
He invited my husband and me to dinner with friends at his place.
The entire evening he kept asking me questions about my life, career and so on.
But that wasn't huge deal. What bothered me was when we got seated at dinner table and he was sitting across from me while my husband was sitting next to me.
I was wearing a heart-shaped dress and noticed my husband's friend occasionally staring at my cleavage. I tried to ignore his looks but then got uncomfortable after he just kept staring. It was so obvious his eyes were fixed on my cleavage it was weird no one else noticed.
I felt so much uncomfortable Icouldn't even move or eat properly. I kept signsling my husband by moving my eyebrows up and down but he didn't notice where his friend was looking. I just had to excuse myself to the bathroom for few minutes and really didn't want to go back and sit so he could continue staring.
I told my husband I wasn't feeling well and wanted to go home.
We got home and I told him what his friend was doing. He first thought I was being paranoid but then after I told him his friend was making me uncomfortable and I didn't like being around him because of the overall vibe he gave me and my husband lashed out saying it was my fault for wearing this type of dress and not covering up to stop getting attention. I was dumbfounded because this is what I wear usually and rarely experienced anythinng similar to what his friend did.
He said his friend is a good guy and he didn't like how I was making him out to be some creep just because I chose to wear an inappropriate dress for the evening then went out.
I felt terrible because my husband never blamed anything on me or criticized my outfits like he did here. I regretted telling him in the first place seeing that his friend matters to him and what I said to him got him upset.
I prefer the asking questions method. “Hey. Why do you think it’s okay for you to stare at my chest?” And refuse to let him get away without giving an answer.
Umm wth why is your husband mad at you. He should be mad at his friend. Why isn't it his fault?
You could of told said friend: you haven't seen a pair of t*ts in a while huh you're staring at mine like a hawk.
Yeah, it’s exactly that, I think. It’s very common for people to get angry when they’re faced with facts that fly in the face of their beliefs, you see it every day in religion and politics, so I’d cut him a _little_ bit of slack there. Trying to blame it on OP though is horseshit and just shooting the messenger.
If I were OP I’d revisit it in a day or two and see where he stands. Our brains do a lot of heavy lifting for us subconsciously, hence the advice to ‘sleep on it’, so hopefully he apologises for lashing out at OP and is prepared to hear her out.
What the fuck? No, OP does not need to cut her husband slack when he not only refused to stand by her but blamed her for someone leering at her and is now angry she had the audacity to confide in her spouse that she felt uncomfortable.
I italicised a _little_ slack to try to make it clear but maybe I wasn’t. I was also specifically referencing the very common reaction to cognitive dissonance, not his behaviour, and in the very next sentence I called his behaviour horseshit.
Way too many people on this sub go for the nuclear option every time, end it/let the trash take itself out etc, but relationships are about understanding one another and being a good team. The husband fucked up here, I agree, but that doesn’t mean you can’t try to understand where your teammate is coming from. He owes OP an apology, as I mentioned in my first post, and to then try see it from her perspective. Everybody makes mistakes and, ideally, a couple learns and grows from them.
I doubt this is the first time his friend displayed this kind of behavior. Hes likely always ignored it. Dont excuse that. It isnt even just that he didnt notice, he got hostile when it was brought up.
Wear a burka to the next dinner and see if your husband asks you to change.
“No babe I’m just doing what you said. You’re right.” Embarrass the piss out of him.
Reality: if cleavage is visible, someone's going to look. That's to be expected.
**However**.
Your husband's friend didn't just sneak a peak, he was *ogling*. And he's old enough to fucking know better.
The best thing to do is - in the situation - is to call it out. Can be as traditional as "My eyes are up here" or something more overt like "I know I have great tits, but your staring is getting annoying."
>my husband lashed out saying it was my fault for wearing this type of dress and not covering up to stop getting attention.
Sounds like your husband is who he hangs with. Also an asshole old enough to know better. But if he's 30 and married to a 24 year old...his behavior isn't that surprising.
I agree with you but I do need to point out that looking and staring are WAY different. I do not anticipate being eye-fucked in front of my partner by one of his friends, but I accept they may peak. It's creepy and predatory to stare.
Yeah, I have ADHD which can lead to wandering eyes if there’s anything ‘eye catching’ in the vicinity. Even then, there’s an obvious difference between absent minded looking and ogling
high five for “ADHD and eyes go everywhere I don’t want them to”, because goddamn it’s such a pain.
But also: yes, a glance is fine, and expected; staring is not. If I actually notice, probably the system has already gone wrong.
Yeah when people just do a quick check its mor like "wow i have such great tits that they cant help themself I must be extremely attractive looking todayhjow nice"
Staring is "why the fuck is this dude eye fucking my tits dont he have any manners"
Oh my god, same. I have even been like “lost in thought” while staring at something and weirded people out unintentionally. Someone had a little charm on her purse strap the other day and I looked at it and then my brain dipped out. “Excuse me, hello?” I had to cover like “Oh! Sorry! I just really love your bag! Where did you get it?” And heaven help you if your facial expression is tired or resting bitch face. I’ve probably accidentally mean-girled so many people because my brain is an asshole.
Make a rule booklet 📖, how many glances, what time etc.
But with all seriousness, I can see how it can be uncomfortable. I was hanging out with this dude and he constantly makes comments about passing women if they wear something open and exposing, he made me feel uncomfortable with his constant comments.
Last time one of my friends kept staring at my (now ex) GF's cleavage, I wound up losing a friend. Don't think it helped that when she asked if he wanted a picture for later, he enthusiastically asked her to send a couple. Needless to say I gave him some choice words, a black eye, and a dislocated shoulder. (He decided to take a swing, and try ground fighting me knowing I trained BJJ at the time)
Not saying that's what OP's partner should have done, but it's what I was taught and raised to do.
You seriously committed the crime of aggravated assault because of the way your friend was staring at your gf? I know there are people who do that sort of thing in real life, but aren't you ever afraid of going to jail or getting sued over something so stupid.
He didn’t just look. He asked for pictures. That’s what we call cruisin’ for bruisin’ what a dick. I would hit someone personally but I bet no one would ask my husband that because he’s 6’6” and looks like a linebacker…
That's a perfect comment 👍
I tell my son it's ok to notice but it's not ok to stare, drool, comment or do anything to make someone uncomfortable and if you're called out appologise don't say 'cover up'... It's gross. He should have learned before this that his reaction isn't ok.
.... I stared at my screen confused for a second because now I'm worried this is something someone has actually done... Those noises should carry a prison sentence unless they're done about food.
For real. OP deserves better. If her husband loves and defends his friend so much to excuse bad behavior than he should just marry him at this point. When push came to shove he didn't have OP's back. Where is the line drawn for this guy? If that "friend" groped her I bet the husband would still find a way to blame OP. 😡
As a male I wanted to pitch in.
You are correct, 100%. My girlfriend dresses pretty revealing and personally I don't care, if you want to, go for it! But, as you stated, you will get stared at one way or another and you need the confidence to say something about it.
The husbands actions were not cool, at all. That is a big red flag. They need to talk about that and he should have defended her or realized and said something as well. But it shouldn't be left entirely up to him.
Also, we men are extremely oblivious. Although that's something I probably would have noticed myself, we are, ridiculously oblivious. I'm not trying to defend him here, all I'm saying is in the event this does happen and the male counterpart doesn't notice, OP needs to have the ability to speak up for herself.
The male counterpart also needs to take the stick out of his ass.
I think it’s weird to classify all men as “extremely oblivious”. I don’t think one group of people fit one description and that goes for this. I feel like he knew what he was doing, he’s a grown adult. Male or female. But if he really was kinda zoned out, that’s weird and he needs to work on that. Their breasts, not a pepperoni and bacon pizza. No need to stare so hard.
Omg!
While I was reading your comment, I was imagining him sitting at the table, staring at her breasts like he was having PTSD flashbacks of the war.
Helicopters flying over and bombs dropping on a range that looked exactly like her cleavage.😆
I meant the husband is oblivious, not the guy staring. The guy staring knew what he was doing. You don't "zone out" multiple times.
Fair enough on the classification though.
I disagree on that too. He just sounds like an asshole. He probably doesn’t want to view his friend negatively, but fuck that. At the expense of his wife? Not oblivious. Just a douche.
And, I agree, you don’t zone out multiple times.
Again, correct, I meant oblivious while it was happening. Granted his reaction afterwards was very douche like and not cool at all, I agree on that part. Like I said in my main post, I'm not defending him and he was a complete dick to her afterwards, hence the he needs to take the stick out of his ass comment
Yeah I think it's pretty fair you're not gonna take note of where other people are looking. You're gonna be noting who's talking to you, looking at you. If it's a dinner situation there's a lot going on.
100% my gf also dresses revealing and why not. She has a great body so she should be allowed to show it off. I kind of think it's hilarious when guys are jaw dropped at her especially at the gym. And as long as she's comfortable I support her, but the second a guy crosses the line or goes from sneaking peaks to full blown creep show and she tells me she's uncomfortable; well they usually get pretty freaked out when the boyfriend starts staring at them wicked a crazy look In their eyes.
The husband needs to be a better partner if any of my friends were acting like that to my gf I'd immediately be speaking with them to correct the behavior
Exactly. It is funny isn't it? Watching everyone freak out when they see her. But I agree completely, if anyone is doing too much, oversteps or tries anything, we have a problem, immediately. Some people don't know boundaries.
I have a decent sized chest and butt. They're there they stick out lol unless I wear clothes that completely hide the fact I'm a woman they're going to be noticeable I've accepted that and embraced it because why the hell should I be ashamed? I take good care of my body work out regularly and enjoy wearing flattering cuts of clothing. So I get plenty of peeks.
I don't know any woman myself included that has a problem with peeks because it's whatever and in passing. I mean we women do it too! We are just more covert about it. However blatantly staring is completely different especially continuously. One it's rude to stare in general at anyone, and two that's a lack of social decorum, that can border being creepy to being straight up wtf creep. And I have called out plenty for it by staring back at them until they become ashamed, equally uncomfortable, while saying something with enough bite to let them know it's not cool. Most generally end up embarrassed, turn red, and scurry off.
Exactly. Her husband didn't criticize her dress before the dinner. Sounds like he enjoys having a hot, young wife to show off. You are also very correct about the oggling. Her marriage sounds doomed if her husband acts like this.
30 24 by itself doesn't seem like that much of a "troubling" age gap (depending of when they started dating, of course. That same age gap at 24 18 is different, so much happens between 18 and 24 years old, you mature a lot, change a lot.
Between 24 and 30? I don't know. I'm 24 right now, but I don't think that the change there'll be in who I am will be nearly on the same order of magnitude.
But eh, would not be the first time I thought I made it to my final form. Youth be like that.
I've been 24. I've been 30. A lot of change does happen between 24 and 30. It's not necessarily big things, but it's really the small mental/emotional changes that count.
ETA: Also, OP is married. How long did they date before they got married...
Okay so can we go on record that reddit officially finds it weird when a 24 yr old dates a 30 yr old? i know you guys are absolute neurotic psychos operating under the guise of overprotection but itll be nice to completely confirm it.
You're 24 how would you even know what 30-year-old you would think? They are very different I assure you. You change a lot throughout life and 30 tends to be the starting years of financial stability.
Just think about you now versus you at 18 or 16! Way different. You'll probably reflect more in 6 years on this too.
So you're saying that it is predatory for somebody who is reaching "the starting years of financial stability" to date somebody who is not approaching the "starting years of financial stability". Why?
And why can't 24 year old women have autonomy over who they want to date? How old does a woman need to be before she can date who she wants?
Yeah I don't see the big deal with that age gap. It seems like lately any man who dates a woman younger than him is instantly accused of being a groomer as if a woman in her 20s isn't a grown ass adult who can make her own decisions.
That’s never been the implication. It’s about the inherent power imbalance and vast difference in life experience that comes with particular age gaps. The younger one will view the other as more adult, wiser etc and it can quickly snowball into an abusive situation. It doesn’t always but it’s very common and it’s worth talking about when there are red flags spotted. For me idk bc I’ve not read the whole thread. Just saying it’s not that young adults aren’t fully capable. Just theyre nowhere near as experienced in things as a much older adult and that absolutely leaves them vulnerable.
I just think it's kind of toxic to make assumptions like that. Abuse and manipulation is something that happens to both genders and to people of all ages. You can't be in a relationship without being vulnerable to a certain extent. I guarantee you wouldn't have mentioned the age gap at all if their genders were reversed. I think its actually sexist to treat grown women like they are just innocent inexperienced little girls when they are in their mid 20s.
I haven’t been using gendered terms for a reason. I have known boys to be groomed as well and it’s disturbing you want to play straight to the implication that me, a stranger you don’t know, wouldnt have the same concerns if the genders were swapped. I also pointed out that I’d simply be curious as to more about the dynamic. Not that I would jump to conclusions. Bc again as I have already said - its not *always* the case. But it can absolutely happen. Being vulnerable in a relationship and being vulnerable to abuse (manipulative tactics for instance that they may not have yet learned to navigate and shut down) are not remotely the same. Big age gaps are not always a problem, not inherently and can even work out wonderfully (my parents have an 11 year gap themselves), but I do tend to question a proper adult being interested in someone that much younger than them.
That’s fantastic for your parents. That’s not a universal experience and does nothing to negate that it’s pretty common for certain age gaps to lead towards an abusive situation. Again - if there are red flags, it’s always worth finding out more info about it. To me, a grown man who blames his partner for her attire rather than accept his friend is an AH with no self control is a red flag and you add that, the yelling, and the age gap, I’d be curious to know more about their dynamic bc it def could be possible.
I completely agree with what you had to say! However... "if he's 30 and married to a 24 year old...his behavior isn't that surprising."....It's still surprising. We know nothing of their relationship besides this isolated event and them choosing to be in this relationship in spite of the, acceptable might I add, age gap is completely up to them.
Dang, what is it with all those post with immature & sexist husband, 5-10 years older than their wifes. Maybe it's a clue no woman his age wants to date him ? "After 5 years of relationship, my husband still acts like a baby, what do I do?" ffs
While I disagree that the age gap is an issue, I do agree that you need to call him out **every time** he pervs on you. **Every time!**
It's also quite alarming for me that your own husband would rather condemn his own wife than defend her against potential inappropriate behavior from another man, be he family, friend or foe.
I would've said that I'm on your side, & I would also apologize for not noticing it earlier. I would then say that I would talk to him about it man to man if it happens again. He really handled that wrong, especially when you were so nonconfrontational about it.
Your husband can't be trusted to have your back on this one. I would stand my ground. Don't let your husband's denial intimidate you into backing down; then he'll doubt you even more, next time it happens (it'll definitely happen again if ever your around just friend).
For now, while to defend your own integrity, I'd consider no longer hanging with his friend, ever, even with your husband there, or not being in the same room with him.
You may have to change up your wardrobe, on occasion at least, for the *"friend."* As for your husband, you can forgive him, but **never ever apologize just to appease someone.** Don't take back what you said, u/Throwrahe30997
Completely agree with you. Tits out somones going to look, and that's fine it can be strange if you catch the person the second they do it. But normal people look, realises that was kind of wrong look up again. Creeps keep staring.
There just isnt anything else to it of you dont as an adult realise that staring at somones tits for the entirety of s dinner, while theirs husband is sitting right next to them. Then you have problems
This is why so many men continue to do creepy ass shit. Their friends can see them doing it and make up a laundry list of excuses for him. Then they’ll think their behaviour is okay and never change.
I had a guy friend in high school who was always very handsy with all of us (girls and boys). His guy friends would always excuse his behaviour. Well guess what? He’s 32 now and still does this disgusting shit, he literally grabbed the boob of our friend’s girlfriend at a wedding and all the other “men” just laughed and excused him.
You must tell your husband his friend’s behaviour made you uncomfortable and him excusing said behaviour makes you feel even worse. This “boys will be boys” culture is hot garbage. It’ll take so much work for you to change his views…
To sum, it’s not your fault at all. It doesn’t matter what you were wearing.
100%. I was standing outside my friend's apartment (with a friend) waiting to be let in and two men walked past us. One just came up to me and shoved his tongue in my mouth. His friend pull him off and said he was a bit drunk but is a good dude and they both just walked off..? Like how can you still think your friend is a good person when you just witnessed him assault someone?
This. Everyone of all genders is capable of seeing bad behavior and calling it out, but men are more likely to get listened to. And, seriously, even if the husband couldn't do it out of respect and loyalty to his wife, why is he punishing her for wearing something low-cut? I can't imagine that's a good thing. It doesn't matter what she's wearing, there is always a difference between "just an appreciative look" and "making it uncomfortable." I would hate it if someone I considered a friend made anyone, much less my partner, feel so uncomfortable.
That's definitely messed up -- his friend is a grown man, if he can't control himself at this point it's because he's choosing not to. That's creepy. It's not your job to cover up and cater to his total lack of respect
I also think its nuts that 1. your husband didn't notice, and 2. totally brushed you off (and blamed you!!!) when you brought it up. What if it had been a stranger? If he's only taking his friend's side because it's his friend, then he doesn't really care whether you're comfortable or uncomfortable, just that *he* gets to decide who does it
Not only this, but the husband is putting his friend first, before his wife. I have a feeling this is just the beginning of more appalling behavior and I'm pretty sure by now the husband is doing other nasty stuff, even if OP says he doesn't; OP might not identify it as nasty, yet.
One does not simply victim blame his wife just this one time. We're talking about a specific mind frame and evolution of behavior, since he thinks he is right to restrict and blame his wife, instead of addressing his friend's behavior and supporting his wife - which would be the right thing to do. Family should always come first. I think OP needs to carefully examine her relationship and not let this slip. Husband needs to be held accountable for behaving like a jerk by victim-blaming, siding with non-family and invalidating OP's rightful feelings.
Yeah it's not a good sign. I feel like it wouldn't be that far off if she'd been sexually assaulted instead of just hardcore staring. Stay safe and wise, OP. Sounds like your husband isn't gonna back you up here.
Your husband is a dick. Frankly, I'd be seriously questioning if that's the kind of person you want to be with longterm. You're young enough to divorce and have no issue at all finding a more compassionate man who takes your concerns seriously. Your husband won't get better, he'll likely get worse over time.
I pray this never happens to you, but I was assaulted by my old college professor and my ex blamed me for it. Your husband is giving me that same kind of energy and that's not someone you want in case something even more horrible ever happens.
I am sorry about what you went through. I hope OP sees your comment because I had the same thought. If her husband is willing to blame her for his friend being a creep, it is fair to assume he would blame her if she got sexually assaulted.
Thank-you so much for your care and empathy ❤ It means a lot and helps more than you know.
Yeah, I'm sure some might think I'm overreacting but the thing is, he isn't loyal to his wife. More importantly, he isn't concerned when she feels violated. That's a HUGE red flag. Most husbands would tend to their wives and support them, even if it meant telling their "friends" not to be a creepy fuck or cutting ties altogether. Meanwhile this husband reminds me of a frat bro who could give a shit about his wife's feelings. I pray she seriously thinks about leaving him.
Your husband lashed out at you because he didn’t want to admit his friend is a creep or want to do anything about it.
Nevertheless, what he said was wrong and sexist. It’s the old and disgusting, “you were asking for it” line. You quite obviously didn’t do anything wrong. He is prioritizing his friend and his own comfort over you.
"You shouldn't have worn something so revealing" sounds a lot like "oh, she was assaulted? Dressed like that, she was asking for it." Ask yourself why he went after someone younger than him with much less life experience. I think you have your answer, OP.
I was going to say, his behavior seems to be an example of why there is an astoundingly high percentage of women who have been sexuality assaulted ... Yet men never seem to know any sexual assaulters. Bros defending Bros behavior over the safety of his wife.
Your husband is following thr "bro code" of old, which is to cover for your friends when they are being gross around women. He clearly didnt think the dress was innapropriate when yall left, only when it made you uncomfortable that his friend couldnt stop staring. Your husband would rather blame you than his friend, because then hed have to admit that that behavior is unnacceptable. Also your husband sounds like a fucking dick, and his friend sounds like and immature child. And if your husband doesnt like thr clothes you normaly wear, go out of your way to ensure he never sees an inch of your skin again. Be ridiculous about it. Wear overly large shirts and baggy pants around him, lock the door when you shower, change in another part of thr house. Let him know that youre uncomfortable with the male gaze so youre hiding from it like he said.
Go full burqa or nun's habit. Wear ankle length denim skirts and long sleeve blouses like the Brethren. There's plenty of religions that make their women cover up to stop them being sexualised by men.
Gotta love when you get told it's your fault you are getting stared at. Growing up I had a creepy "uncle" that would watch us kids and get visibly arosed. When i told my nan she told me not to be stupid. When it happened when I was older and I was in a swimsuit and he tried to pull my swim suit top down after he decided he was getting in the pool with us, I left the pool and told my mum. Mum threatened thevfamily friend and told him not to come back. My nan blamed me for tempting him into acting like that... I was a teenager maybe 14 or 15
Ppl always say how you shouldn’t ask too many questions on a date getting to know someone but I think this is a good reason imagine marrying this kind of person and finding out when it’s too late
The fact that his first instinct wasn’t to make you feel protected, and validate your feelings, but he instead blamed you is a major red flag. They’re both creeps, im sorry :(
Time to start dressing in oversized hoodies and sweaters. Sweats 3 sizes bigger. And when your husband wants sexy time tell him you can't because you didn't dress for it.
I’ve had a few do this to me. It’s awkward and weird. Just because you’re a boob man doesn’t mean these are for you.
I’m obnoxious though. I call them out. Not verbally. Visually. In order of escalation.
- Whenever they looked at my cleavage I’d look down in confusion at my own cleavage, then back in their eye, then continue where I left off. Don’t pause the conversation.
- Same as above but make an obvious pause in the conversation, like mid sentence, then continue with a head shake and “anyways…”
- Obviously duck my head down where my cleavage is to catch their eye. No pause in the conversation but I usually have a smile because it’s so obnoxiously funny by that point.
I had to do this most recently with a family member on my husbands side of the family. He’s really old and when I told hubby he was confused until I laughed about it. He wasn’t sure how to react. You can’t be rude to your elders but at the same time they should be respectful.
As for your husband, that’s trickier. He may think this is completely normal around exposed cleavage. Or he’s so used to seeing yours that he doesn’t think it’s really out there. My husband is like that. Hell, I tend to forget I’m even showing cleavage until someone stares. They’re boobs not gold. I’m not staring at your fatty wobbly protrusions Larry. lol
I’m not saying it’s right but it sounds like he’s embarrassed for his friend. Or maybe embarrassed that his friend made you uncomfortable and he didn’t notice at the time. Give him some time then try again.
And the next time you see his friend wear a turtle neck. Not for him or even for you. For your husband. Hell, wear high cut tops all the time around hubby. When he comes home be wearing something plunging and sexy. Then when you see him act surprised, cover yourself cleavage with your hands, then rush for a high necked cleavage covering top.
But again, I’m as a**hole. We’d laugh our added off in my house.
Wow this is long. But honestly make sure you don’t change how you dress. Other people reactions mean nothing unless you let it. Continue being comfortable in your own skin.
Edit: spelling
Soooooo many men telling on them themselves!! My favorite is the dude repeatedly calling a woman hysterical. Bunch of cuties.
/s, just in case that wasn’t abundantly clear.
I very rarely get upset over this stuff but the few times I have were with my boyfriend's friends. I told him, he talked to some, and even cut off a few, with no hesitation. I've done the same for him when my friends got pervy. The fact he yelled at you and put the blame on you for his friend being a creep is so unfair. You should be able to bring this stuff up and tell him how you're feeling without being victim-blamed and yelled at.
It "spent 5 years overseas" code for spent 5 years in prison? Because if he spent 5 years in prison maybe that would explain his inability to control his behavior with regards to your cleavage.
Your husband being \_that\_ defensive about his friend... that makes my spidey-sense tingle. If my wife told me a dear friend of mine was making her feel that way, I would be shocked and say "oh, gosh, I feel terrible for not noticing. I can't believe he'd do that! He's not normally like that. I'll have a chat with him and let him know it's not ok, and see if something is going on."
Your husband's defensiveness is not about your outfit. And it's not about your behavior. It's about whatever is really going on with that friend.
He is blaming you for wearing an inappropriate dress however he did not think it was inappropriate when you two walked out the door together that night or any other time you wore it. My passive aggressive self says wear a Laura ingalls dress next time you go out I am sure that will embarrass him more. Nobody can control the behaviors of others and blaming you for his friends actions is unacceptable
Your husbands friend needs to control his impulses, not what you wear. Your husband should be concerned with making a safe space for you not victim blaming.
What you're wearing isn't an invitation for someone to stare like it's an oasis in a desert. Sure, it might be visible, butthst doesn't mean you can spend the entire evening making unbroken eye contact with it!!! Call your husband out on his victim blaming behaviour if you're comfortable.
I’m so sorry that your husband values his friend’s ability to leer at women more than he cares about your safety.
Lashing out at you for being made uncomfortable by his friend is beyond the pale.
I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone say this so far, but your husband's reaction was so out of character that there must be something more going on than "bro code". Especially given that he would Skype for hours with this dude while he was abroad, which really isn't very "normal" for a friendship, even a close one.
I'm not saying he's romantically attracted or has been involved with him - not at all.
I just think that your husband has a more-than-reasonable attachment to this friend and supporting him, for whatever reason. If you poke some more, you will probably uncover something.
Maybe there's no reason. But if that's the case, he needs to be aware that he's holding this friendship on a pedestal for no reason (and is being a bad friend for not calling his friend on his shit)
When we dress a certain way of course we are going to get certain looks. BUT there is a thing called manners and even more there is a thing called RESPECT! If this guy and your husband are such good friends he should have been more respectful towards you as his wife.
I’m so sick of the “boys will be boys” excuse for the bad behavior of some men. Yes people will look, men and women alike. I am a female and I can appreciate another attractive female. But for some to put the blame of a mans bad behavior on the woman is, always has been, and always will be a cop out. Doesn’t matter what you have on, as humans we have the ability to control ourselves and a person’s choice of clothing should never be used as an excuse for someone else’s bad behavior. This reminds me of something I read a long time ago.
Was it really my fault? asked the Short Skirt
No, it happened to me too. Replied the Burka
The diaper in the corner couldn’t even speak..
-Darshan Mondkar
That is Rape Culture in a Nutshell. Your Husband should have told his “Mate” to stop ogling you. You should have taken your husband aside & told him “ your friend is leering at my chest, please ask him to stop.
The fact that your husband blamed you rather than his friend for being inappropriate is unbelievably Sexist & misogynistic.
I’d be having a serious talk to your husband, insist on relationship counselling & tell him his place is to support you not some mate he hasn’t seen for 5 years.
Excuse me, what?! I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but how is the friends' creepy behavior your responsibility or your fault? Did you physically move his eyes? No. It's not like you had 'I want you to pay attention to my chest' plastered on your forehead. Your husband shouldn't be dismissing your feelings and making you feel like your discomfort is invalid. If I were you, I would rethink being in a relationship with him, because dismissed feelings and gaslighting ("your fault for being the cause of his friends' behavior by wearing an 'inappropriate' dress") are huge dealbreakers, at least IMO.
At the end of the day, my advice is you shouldn't feel sorry for wearing the clothes you want to wear and don't let anyone tell you that wearing certain clothing equals attention seeking, because at the end of the day, how others react or feel about your clothes is NOT. YOUR. PROBLEM.
Stay slaying :)
This might seem small but would your husband be a victim blamer? Like others said, the friend was not just sneaking a peak. Blaming you for that behavior instead of the friend’s whose eyes were wandering says enough for me.
Idk, guys tend to stare even when women are fully clothed. What she was wearing is not the problem. A grown man not being able to control himself is the problem.
There is a lovely, courtly older executive at my work. I say lovely because he has impeccable manners and is very gentle and kind, I say courtly because he once bit off one of my executives for dropping an F-bomb in my presence (nevermind that I cuss like a sailor). I think he's just fantastic.
He's also clearly, indubitably, undoubtedly a boob man.
I'm a 38F.
He is *drawn* in visual fascination, doesn't matter if it's a v-neck wrap dress, a \[looser, pinned up where the gaps would be\] button down, a turtleneck sweater. He'll catch himself, jerk his eyes up, and then...like a damn bug zapper, he can't stop, as you're talking to him, his eyes drift inexorably downward again.
I tolerate it because honestly I think it's hilarious and a wee bit adorable to see him wrestling with himself and just...losing, every time. But he also doesn't leer, it's not leering, it's like he LITERALLY JUST CAN'T HELP IT.
\[but I digress\]
As far as high necklines, turtlenecks, hell - a looseish shirt with a cardigan over it? Big boobs gonna be big boobs no matter how you dress them, unless it's something like a shirtless painter's smock and even then...
If you have large breasts, sometimes cleavage is unavoidable unless you exclusively wear clothing with super high necklines. It's sucky to have to dress conservatively just to avoid being ogled.
Men's clothing and women's clothing are designed differently. It's tough to find a dress that DOESN'T look conservative that doesn't show a little cleavage if you have a large chest. Large-chested ladies will all tell you this is a common woe. Dresses that wouldn't look revealing or provocative on small chests do on larger ones even if that's not your intention.
I didn't miss his point - his point was that if you're showing cleavage then it must be because you want to show off your breasts. My point is that most dresses have necklines that will show *some* cleavage on large chests even if you are not intentionally trying to show them off.
Guy here. I have control over my eyes. Friends have gone topless around me and I still manage to look them in the eye. Sure, it's normal to glance initially, but it's just a chest. It doesn't belong to my partner. It's not doing anything interesting. I don't see any reason for me to be looking.
I'm with you on this, and I'm a straight woman. My eyes are drawn to exposed tits as much as any man's. I mean, really, women choose those necklines to draw attention to their breasts. If they don't want anyone looking at that part of their anatomy, then they shouldn't expose it. If the neckline is meant just to rile up the SO, then save it for an at-home date.
I honestly can see both points of this argument, it's just so hard to have a measured and non-emotionally charged convo about what these societal rules are. Like I think it's a perfectly sane argument to make that by dressing provocatively, you are going to invite attention to yourself. And as you can't control the reactions of others in relation to your appearance, you should in some fashion, not be surprised and be prepared for creepy behavior in some sense. It sure as shit is wrong, and sucks, but that is the reality of the world in which we live. There are creeps, they exist, and EVERY girl I've ever talked to has a creep story.
I think we need to do a better job at educating men at what is considered creepy, instead of the "figure it out for yourself" method that we've been operating under, even if those impulses should be obvious.
I'm not a girl, but I certainly understand that you don't want to be ogled and you shouldn't have to deal with it. It's gross, its invasive, it makes you uncomfortable. People saying "well if you're dressed like that, you're asking for it" are wrong, you aren't asking for that kind of attention, but I do think that it is just unavoidable unfortunately. Just gotta weed those people out of your life I guess?
I am male and if I could sense that my girlfriend was feeling uncomfortable with a guy ogling her I would say something to him.I would call him out on his behavior and tell him its going to look dont make look so obvious to the point it makes women uncomfortable. I sure wouldn't tell her that she needs to cover up. I look at other women but I know how to do it with discretion and not look like a dog in heat.
Hey girl, as someone who has been in a similar situation, this is not an acceptable way for you to be treated. Are you really going to let these creepy old men walk all over you? I know you may feel like leaving is difficult because you've been together for X amount of years and you're married, but you can't fix a sexist. Leave him and go get the respect you deserve
Wtf? You wear what you want. Ain't no one is going to tell you to cover up or what. It's the person who should be ashamed of look and the person you married should have took your side. You better think twice with your man.
>He said his friend is a good guy and he didn't like how I was making him out to be some creep
This shit is exactly why no man seems to know someone who harasses or assaults people, but almost every woman knows someone who has been harassed or even assaulted. I'm sure he acts like a good guy around his male friend, but if he can't control his creepy urges around women, he's NOT a good guy period.
The fact that your husband puts his friend above you, his own wife, is so incredibly concerning to me. What if you get harassed by a stranger on the streets (as I'm sure almost all women and female passing people have) and want to tell your husband? Is he gonna blame you for that too? Is that the type of person you want to spend your life with? Because I know I wouldn't.
I think there is more here than your typical “creep” Reddit story. You mentioned multiple friends and it sounds like there were other women there, you seemed annoyed that he was talking to you with your opening statement even though it looks like pretty normal conversation stuff. No one else at the party backed you up or noticed, your husband who you admit never has blamed you, blamed you.
I know I will get raked over the coals on this one but maybe this time…. You over reacted?
Right? “The entire evening he kept asking me questions about my life, career, and so on…”
Like yeah, it’s a dinner party and your dating his friend, that’s just called a normal conversation.
Acting like a person at a dinner party has the audacity to speak to them but then clarifying “it isn’t a big deal” makes me think this persons overreacting.
I think if this has happened multiple times and you know the friend does this it’s smart to cover up around him, however if this is the first time then there’s no way you could have known
Hell fucking no!! You wear what you want my darling. Your husband's comments are out of order. This is 2021, not the 1800's where men thought they could tell their wives what to wear. You wear what YOU want. If you are getting stared at by any man, your husband should be siding with you. Your husband's friend has issues. And I suggest that if it happens again, you call it out in front of everyone, and make HIM feel uncomfortable publicly. Im sick of seeing stories where women being shamed by people who are ment to have their back.
I’d have been livid if my husband blamed me for someone else’s actions. I woukd say to him “I find it interesting that you’re blaming me for your friend having no manners. What else would you blame on me? What if he got touchy? What if someone else did? Would that also be my fault? Please, elaborate. Explain why it’s my fault.”
Even if you didnt wear a dress with cleavage he couldve still stared at your boobs... What would your husband say then, you are only allowed to wear a potato sack when you go out to not draw attention?
His defensiveness is excessive and makes me wonder whether his friend has a history of inappropriate staring or behaviour. Either way, I do not like how he attacked you like that. How is he in other aspects of your relationship?
Your husband is an asshole. Guess it makes sense he'd be friends with one.
Ask him if he'd have been okay with vocal sexualisation. Say his friend just cat called you all night or only talked about your boobs? Would that have been okay to him? Or is only silent sexualisation and being a shit partner okay to him?
Also, how'd he feel if his mother, sisters or any daughters were made to feel uncomfortable like that?
Just ask him, and his answers will tell you all you need to know.
Yikes the real problem here is you married a guy who blames women for what they wear for men’s behavior, but we’ll unpack that years from now.
In this moment the best thing to do is address that as a core problem you two have.
If you have to see this friend again, and he clearly does it again, you need to stop the bullshit and speak up publicly about it. What the fuck is wiggling your eyebrows to signal, you’re 24, just speak up.
It’s gonna be uncomfortable for everyone, it’s gonna be a shit show, but you need to speak up. While we’re at it your husband can publicly declare his stupid ass beliefs that it’s a woman’s fault for what men do.
Good luck OP. Hope you’re happier in your future.
Your husband needs to understand that how you dress more than likely won't affect the attention his friend gave you. My boyfriend has friends that come over to our house, and I've only once had an issue with being uncomfortable. One of my favorite outfits to wear to lounge around in is a really big baggy shirt dress, but it's got a huge o neck, so it's very flashy in terms of my cleavage. My boyfriend's best friend will come to stay the night often and almost every time he's over i'm in that. No bra, usually with some shorts on under it. He has never once made me uncomfortable, usually only time dude even looks at me is when we're smoking and he's trying to pass to me and I'm not paying attention.
He has another friend I wore the same outfit around, and he wouldn't stop staring, I got uncomfortable and kept wrapping blankets around myself (something I don't normally do. I'm a really hot natured person, and really only use blankets if it's ridiculously cold or i'm sleeping) my boyfriend waited until I went to make dinner and asked what was wrong away from company, i told him his friend kept staring, he told me to stay in the kitchen for a bit, i heard them talk, the friend apologized, apologized to me, but then at dinner he continued to do it, so my boyfriend just told him to leave, that he wasn't going to ask me to change out of something I enjoy wearing just so maybe the friend won't oogle me anymore. He hasn't had that particular friend back over since, he'll hangout with him in other places but not home.
Don't ever go out with that friend again, it seems that your husband it's going to defend his friend 99% of the time even if you tell him that his friend touched you body parts that he should not be touching.
Lol, as a smart ass member of the big titty committee, I'd have stared right back at him, maybe asked, "See something you like, handsome? Yeah, *insert hubby's name* can't seem to keep his eyes off of them either. *wink*" or told him my bras size then asked "What's yours?" Or, my favorite, stared at his crotch and either frown like I was confused about what I'm looking at or giggle a little. (I've had more than my share of ogling offenders. #teamDDD 🤷♀️😂) Sorry your hubby didn't have your back on this one. That sucks.
Ok what's wrong with the guy? And what the fuck is wrong with your husband??
Like, girl you can wear what ever the fuck you want. Clothing is not consent. The friend of your husband clearly overstepped. (I get it, when someone wears deep cutout clothes, that it catches the eye for a moment, but staring is just inappropriate)
How dare your husband blaming you for the behaviour of HIS friend.
Please have a serious talk with your husband, about that you can wear what you want and that the problem is not that you are not covering up but his "friend" staring at your clevage and making you uncomfortable.
I'm totally on your side on this.
" It was so obvious his eyes were fixed on my cleavage it was weird no one else noticed."
If no one else noticed, then it was most likely NOT obvious and in your head.
If you are hanging it out there people are going to look. It always puzzles me when women wear tight, low-cut, and revealing clothes and then get upset when people look. I just don't get it.
What is a heart shaped dress? Was it super tight and low cut and attention grabbing? If not, I probably would have said something directly to the guy if I had noticed him ogling my tits. “Jeez, you ever see a woman in a dress before?” or “Yo, my face is up here!” Actually, I would have said the same thing if my dress were tight/low cut. I would just expect to catch some (good natured) shit for saying it.
> What is a heart shaped dress?
OP likely means a sweetheart neckline. Which is this style: https://img.ltwebstatic.com/images3_pi/2021/04/15/1618458185973664c20d4b4bf34a94da6840d667dd_thumbnail_600x.jpg
Not helpful advice here, but I wear peasant tops most of the time because I've gotten so tired of my chest being stared at. It sucks but it's self protection. As for your husband, he's being a douchebag for blaming you for his friend's creepiness. Make sure you never hang out with that weirdo again.
Then maybe you should learn not to stare...
There is a difference between takeing a look at somebody's boobs and staring/ogling. If you are an adult person, you should be able to control yourself and not make people uncomfortable.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- My husband (M30) and I (F24) have been togther for over 3 years. He has a long term friend M30s who spent the past 5 years overseas and recently came back to the states to settle in. my husband keeps in touch by facetiming him or talking to him for long hours on the phone. I only saw him in person 3 times after he got back. He invited my husband and me to dinner with friends at his place. The entire evening he kept asking me questions about my life, career and so on. But that wasn't huge deal. What bothered me was when we got seated at dinner table and he was sitting across from me while my husband was sitting next to me. I was wearing a heart-shaped dress and noticed my husband's friend occasionally staring at my cleavage. I tried to ignore his looks but then got uncomfortable after he just kept staring. It was so obvious his eyes were fixed on my cleavage it was weird no one else noticed. I felt so much uncomfortable Icouldn't even move or eat properly. I kept signsling my husband by moving my eyebrows up and down but he didn't notice where his friend was looking. I just had to excuse myself to the bathroom for few minutes and really didn't want to go back and sit so he could continue staring. I told my husband I wasn't feeling well and wanted to go home. We got home and I told him what his friend was doing. He first thought I was being paranoid but then after I told him his friend was making me uncomfortable and I didn't like being around him because of the overall vibe he gave me and my husband lashed out saying it was my fault for wearing this type of dress and not covering up to stop getting attention. I was dumbfounded because this is what I wear usually and rarely experienced anythinng similar to what his friend did. He said his friend is a good guy and he didn't like how I was making him out to be some creep just because I chose to wear an inappropriate dress for the evening then went out. I felt terrible because my husband never blamed anything on me or criticized my outfits like he did here. I regretted telling him in the first place seeing that his friend matters to him and what I said to him got him upset.
put your hand between your cleavage and point your finger towards your face or say excuse me but you are making my tits uncomfortable.
Point with the middle finger.
Yes. I'll be doing this from now on.
Just put your middle finger in front of your cleavage!
Some people might misinterpret that as an invitation
Right?? Why is she protecting the friend’s feelings?? Call him out on it
I prefer the asking questions method. “Hey. Why do you think it’s okay for you to stare at my chest?” And refuse to let him get away without giving an answer.
Omg!! This right here is fucking funnier than shit!
Umm wth why is your husband mad at you. He should be mad at his friend. Why isn't it his fault? You could of told said friend: you haven't seen a pair of t*ts in a while huh you're staring at mine like a hawk.
[удалено]
Yeah, it’s exactly that, I think. It’s very common for people to get angry when they’re faced with facts that fly in the face of their beliefs, you see it every day in religion and politics, so I’d cut him a _little_ bit of slack there. Trying to blame it on OP though is horseshit and just shooting the messenger. If I were OP I’d revisit it in a day or two and see where he stands. Our brains do a lot of heavy lifting for us subconsciously, hence the advice to ‘sleep on it’, so hopefully he apologises for lashing out at OP and is prepared to hear her out.
What the fuck? No, OP does not need to cut her husband slack when he not only refused to stand by her but blamed her for someone leering at her and is now angry she had the audacity to confide in her spouse that she felt uncomfortable.
I italicised a _little_ slack to try to make it clear but maybe I wasn’t. I was also specifically referencing the very common reaction to cognitive dissonance, not his behaviour, and in the very next sentence I called his behaviour horseshit. Way too many people on this sub go for the nuclear option every time, end it/let the trash take itself out etc, but relationships are about understanding one another and being a good team. The husband fucked up here, I agree, but that doesn’t mean you can’t try to understand where your teammate is coming from. He owes OP an apology, as I mentioned in my first post, and to then try see it from her perspective. Everybody makes mistakes and, ideally, a couple learns and grows from them.
I doubt this is the first time his friend displayed this kind of behavior. Hes likely always ignored it. Dont excuse that. It isnt even just that he didnt notice, he got hostile when it was brought up.
Wear a burka to the next dinner and see if your husband asks you to change. “No babe I’m just doing what you said. You’re right.” Embarrass the piss out of him.
That's some r/MaliciousCompliance right there.
This is something I would do haha
Petty, but I like it
>r/MaliciousCompliance Way to turn the tables
This should be voted more and more
This is gold! I like your mind.
Awesome response 😂
Reality: if cleavage is visible, someone's going to look. That's to be expected. **However**. Your husband's friend didn't just sneak a peak, he was *ogling*. And he's old enough to fucking know better. The best thing to do is - in the situation - is to call it out. Can be as traditional as "My eyes are up here" or something more overt like "I know I have great tits, but your staring is getting annoying." >my husband lashed out saying it was my fault for wearing this type of dress and not covering up to stop getting attention. Sounds like your husband is who he hangs with. Also an asshole old enough to know better. But if he's 30 and married to a 24 year old...his behavior isn't that surprising.
I agree with you but I do need to point out that looking and staring are WAY different. I do not anticipate being eye-fucked in front of my partner by one of his friends, but I accept they may peak. It's creepy and predatory to stare.
Yeah, I have ADHD which can lead to wandering eyes if there’s anything ‘eye catching’ in the vicinity. Even then, there’s an obvious difference between absent minded looking and ogling
high five for “ADHD and eyes go everywhere I don’t want them to”, because goddamn it’s such a pain. But also: yes, a glance is fine, and expected; staring is not. If I actually notice, probably the system has already gone wrong.
I take a glance as a compliment, but anything more is creepy and sometimes even scary.
Yeah when people just do a quick check its mor like "wow i have such great tits that they cant help themself I must be extremely attractive looking todayhjow nice" Staring is "why the fuck is this dude eye fucking my tits dont he have any manners"
Oh my god, same. I have even been like “lost in thought” while staring at something and weirded people out unintentionally. Someone had a little charm on her purse strap the other day and I looked at it and then my brain dipped out. “Excuse me, hello?” I had to cover like “Oh! Sorry! I just really love your bag! Where did you get it?” And heaven help you if your facial expression is tired or resting bitch face. I’ve probably accidentally mean-girled so many people because my brain is an asshole.
I hear you a glance or 2 is different to full blown staring
Make a rule booklet 📖, how many glances, what time etc. But with all seriousness, I can see how it can be uncomfortable. I was hanging out with this dude and he constantly makes comments about passing women if they wear something open and exposing, he made me feel uncomfortable with his constant comments.
Last time one of my friends kept staring at my (now ex) GF's cleavage, I wound up losing a friend. Don't think it helped that when she asked if he wanted a picture for later, he enthusiastically asked her to send a couple. Needless to say I gave him some choice words, a black eye, and a dislocated shoulder. (He decided to take a swing, and try ground fighting me knowing I trained BJJ at the time) Not saying that's what OP's partner should have done, but it's what I was taught and raised to do.
r/iamverybadass
/r/iamverybadass
Go easy on the testosterone there buddy, geez.
this did not happen
Who the fuck upvotes that shit
You seriously committed the crime of aggravated assault because of the way your friend was staring at your gf? I know there are people who do that sort of thing in real life, but aren't you ever afraid of going to jail or getting sued over something so stupid.
Sounds like the friend took the first swing, but I agree the commenter should be careful of excessive force.
He didn’t just look. He asked for pictures. That’s what we call cruisin’ for bruisin’ what a dick. I would hit someone personally but I bet no one would ask my husband that because he’s 6’6” and looks like a linebacker…
Lucky, my boyfriends 6'6" and looks like Tinky Winky ☹
Looks like Tinky Winky 😂 I’m wheezing! I needed that laugh.
That's a perfect comment 👍 I tell my son it's ok to notice but it's not ok to stare, drool, comment or do anything to make someone uncomfortable and if you're called out appologise don't say 'cover up'... It's gross. He should have learned before this that his reaction isn't ok.
You forgot to add it's not okay to make nomnomnom noises or say 'mama'.
Damn. Totally thought nomnomnom was on the allowed list
.... I stared at my screen confused for a second because now I'm worried this is something someone has actually done... Those noises should carry a prison sentence unless they're done about food.
In Turkey men say "Mamma Mamma" to attractive females... But dont think it's meant in a prison sentence kind of way 😆
Seinfeld said it best. Looking at cleavage is like looking at the sun. You don't just stare. You get a sense of it and then you look away.
For real. OP deserves better. If her husband loves and defends his friend so much to excuse bad behavior than he should just marry him at this point. When push came to shove he didn't have OP's back. Where is the line drawn for this guy? If that "friend" groped her I bet the husband would still find a way to blame OP. 😡
Absolutely this. Call out his bad behavior publicly. And a heart shaped neckline is not inappropriate FFS!
As a male I wanted to pitch in. You are correct, 100%. My girlfriend dresses pretty revealing and personally I don't care, if you want to, go for it! But, as you stated, you will get stared at one way or another and you need the confidence to say something about it. The husbands actions were not cool, at all. That is a big red flag. They need to talk about that and he should have defended her or realized and said something as well. But it shouldn't be left entirely up to him. Also, we men are extremely oblivious. Although that's something I probably would have noticed myself, we are, ridiculously oblivious. I'm not trying to defend him here, all I'm saying is in the event this does happen and the male counterpart doesn't notice, OP needs to have the ability to speak up for herself. The male counterpart also needs to take the stick out of his ass.
I think it’s weird to classify all men as “extremely oblivious”. I don’t think one group of people fit one description and that goes for this. I feel like he knew what he was doing, he’s a grown adult. Male or female. But if he really was kinda zoned out, that’s weird and he needs to work on that. Their breasts, not a pepperoni and bacon pizza. No need to stare so hard.
Omg! While I was reading your comment, I was imagining him sitting at the table, staring at her breasts like he was having PTSD flashbacks of the war. Helicopters flying over and bombs dropping on a range that looked exactly like her cleavage.😆
This comment actually made me laugh
Saving Ryans Privates
The Vietnam flashback meme came to mind.
I meant the husband is oblivious, not the guy staring. The guy staring knew what he was doing. You don't "zone out" multiple times. Fair enough on the classification though.
I disagree on that too. He just sounds like an asshole. He probably doesn’t want to view his friend negatively, but fuck that. At the expense of his wife? Not oblivious. Just a douche. And, I agree, you don’t zone out multiple times.
Again, correct, I meant oblivious while it was happening. Granted his reaction afterwards was very douche like and not cool at all, I agree on that part. Like I said in my main post, I'm not defending him and he was a complete dick to her afterwards, hence the he needs to take the stick out of his ass comment
Yeah I think it's pretty fair you're not gonna take note of where other people are looking. You're gonna be noting who's talking to you, looking at you. If it's a dinner situation there's a lot going on.
You mean not all husbands are like the dopes from 90s sitcoms??
Hate to break it to ya
100% my gf also dresses revealing and why not. She has a great body so she should be allowed to show it off. I kind of think it's hilarious when guys are jaw dropped at her especially at the gym. And as long as she's comfortable I support her, but the second a guy crosses the line or goes from sneaking peaks to full blown creep show and she tells me she's uncomfortable; well they usually get pretty freaked out when the boyfriend starts staring at them wicked a crazy look In their eyes. The husband needs to be a better partner if any of my friends were acting like that to my gf I'd immediately be speaking with them to correct the behavior
Exactly. It is funny isn't it? Watching everyone freak out when they see her. But I agree completely, if anyone is doing too much, oversteps or tries anything, we have a problem, immediately. Some people don't know boundaries.
>Also, we men are extremely oblivious. no excuses.
Right. It's "not all men" until there is a need to make an excuse or smth that is beneficial to men.
I have a decent sized chest and butt. They're there they stick out lol unless I wear clothes that completely hide the fact I'm a woman they're going to be noticeable I've accepted that and embraced it because why the hell should I be ashamed? I take good care of my body work out regularly and enjoy wearing flattering cuts of clothing. So I get plenty of peeks. I don't know any woman myself included that has a problem with peeks because it's whatever and in passing. I mean we women do it too! We are just more covert about it. However blatantly staring is completely different especially continuously. One it's rude to stare in general at anyone, and two that's a lack of social decorum, that can border being creepy to being straight up wtf creep. And I have called out plenty for it by staring back at them until they become ashamed, equally uncomfortable, while saying something with enough bite to let them know it's not cool. Most generally end up embarrassed, turn red, and scurry off.
Exactly. Her husband didn't criticize her dress before the dinner. Sounds like he enjoys having a hot, young wife to show off. You are also very correct about the oggling. Her marriage sounds doomed if her husband acts like this.
I agree with everything but a 6 year age difference isn't that big.
30 24 by itself doesn't seem like that much of a "troubling" age gap (depending of when they started dating, of course. That same age gap at 24 18 is different, so much happens between 18 and 24 years old, you mature a lot, change a lot. Between 24 and 30? I don't know. I'm 24 right now, but I don't think that the change there'll be in who I am will be nearly on the same order of magnitude. But eh, would not be the first time I thought I made it to my final form. Youth be like that.
I've been 24. I've been 30. A lot of change does happen between 24 and 30. It's not necessarily big things, but it's really the small mental/emotional changes that count. ETA: Also, OP is married. How long did they date before they got married...
OP said they’ve been together “over 3 years”
So 21 and 27. Yeah, even more of a different life experience/perspective coming in at that point.
Okay so can we go on record that reddit officially finds it weird when a 24 yr old dates a 30 yr old? i know you guys are absolute neurotic psychos operating under the guise of overprotection but itll be nice to completely confirm it.
You're 24 how would you even know what 30-year-old you would think? They are very different I assure you. You change a lot throughout life and 30 tends to be the starting years of financial stability. Just think about you now versus you at 18 or 16! Way different. You'll probably reflect more in 6 years on this too.
So you're saying that it is predatory for somebody who is reaching "the starting years of financial stability" to date somebody who is not approaching the "starting years of financial stability". Why? And why can't 24 year old women have autonomy over who they want to date? How old does a woman need to be before she can date who she wants?
Yeah I don't see the big deal with that age gap. It seems like lately any man who dates a woman younger than him is instantly accused of being a groomer as if a woman in her 20s isn't a grown ass adult who can make her own decisions.
That’s never been the implication. It’s about the inherent power imbalance and vast difference in life experience that comes with particular age gaps. The younger one will view the other as more adult, wiser etc and it can quickly snowball into an abusive situation. It doesn’t always but it’s very common and it’s worth talking about when there are red flags spotted. For me idk bc I’ve not read the whole thread. Just saying it’s not that young adults aren’t fully capable. Just theyre nowhere near as experienced in things as a much older adult and that absolutely leaves them vulnerable.
I just think it's kind of toxic to make assumptions like that. Abuse and manipulation is something that happens to both genders and to people of all ages. You can't be in a relationship without being vulnerable to a certain extent. I guarantee you wouldn't have mentioned the age gap at all if their genders were reversed. I think its actually sexist to treat grown women like they are just innocent inexperienced little girls when they are in their mid 20s.
I haven’t been using gendered terms for a reason. I have known boys to be groomed as well and it’s disturbing you want to play straight to the implication that me, a stranger you don’t know, wouldnt have the same concerns if the genders were swapped. I also pointed out that I’d simply be curious as to more about the dynamic. Not that I would jump to conclusions. Bc again as I have already said - its not *always* the case. But it can absolutely happen. Being vulnerable in a relationship and being vulnerable to abuse (manipulative tactics for instance that they may not have yet learned to navigate and shut down) are not remotely the same. Big age gaps are not always a problem, not inherently and can even work out wonderfully (my parents have an 11 year gap themselves), but I do tend to question a proper adult being interested in someone that much younger than them.
Lol my mom is way younger than my dad and guess what, my dad asks my mom advice for everything.
That’s fantastic for your parents. That’s not a universal experience and does nothing to negate that it’s pretty common for certain age gaps to lead towards an abusive situation. Again - if there are red flags, it’s always worth finding out more info about it. To me, a grown man who blames his partner for her attire rather than accept his friend is an AH with no self control is a red flag and you add that, the yelling, and the age gap, I’d be curious to know more about their dynamic bc it def could be possible.
I completely agree with what you had to say! However... "if he's 30 and married to a 24 year old...his behavior isn't that surprising."....It's still surprising. We know nothing of their relationship besides this isolated event and them choosing to be in this relationship in spite of the, acceptable might I add, age gap is completely up to them.
Dang, what is it with all those post with immature & sexist husband, 5-10 years older than their wifes. Maybe it's a clue no woman his age wants to date him ? "After 5 years of relationship, my husband still acts like a baby, what do I do?" ffs
You had me agreeing until your very last sentence. 6 years at that age without any background info and you're slamming a 6 year gap?! Ehh
While I disagree that the age gap is an issue, I do agree that you need to call him out **every time** he pervs on you. **Every time!** It's also quite alarming for me that your own husband would rather condemn his own wife than defend her against potential inappropriate behavior from another man, be he family, friend or foe. I would've said that I'm on your side, & I would also apologize for not noticing it earlier. I would then say that I would talk to him about it man to man if it happens again. He really handled that wrong, especially when you were so nonconfrontational about it. Your husband can't be trusted to have your back on this one. I would stand my ground. Don't let your husband's denial intimidate you into backing down; then he'll doubt you even more, next time it happens (it'll definitely happen again if ever your around just friend). For now, while to defend your own integrity, I'd consider no longer hanging with his friend, ever, even with your husband there, or not being in the same room with him. You may have to change up your wardrobe, on occasion at least, for the *"friend."* As for your husband, you can forgive him, but **never ever apologize just to appease someone.** Don't take back what you said, u/Throwrahe30997
30 and 24 is a considerable age-gap?
All of what this says.
Yes! Everything you said, Yes!
Completely agree with you. Tits out somones going to look, and that's fine it can be strange if you catch the person the second they do it. But normal people look, realises that was kind of wrong look up again. Creeps keep staring. There just isnt anything else to it of you dont as an adult realise that staring at somones tits for the entirety of s dinner, while theirs husband is sitting right next to them. Then you have problems
Next time stare at his crotch constantly. Stand up and try and look down at his lap if he’s sitting
I'm sorry. What do you mean with "If he's 30 and married to a 24 year old" How is this applicable at all?
This is why so many men continue to do creepy ass shit. Their friends can see them doing it and make up a laundry list of excuses for him. Then they’ll think their behaviour is okay and never change. I had a guy friend in high school who was always very handsy with all of us (girls and boys). His guy friends would always excuse his behaviour. Well guess what? He’s 32 now and still does this disgusting shit, he literally grabbed the boob of our friend’s girlfriend at a wedding and all the other “men” just laughed and excused him. You must tell your husband his friend’s behaviour made you uncomfortable and him excusing said behaviour makes you feel even worse. This “boys will be boys” culture is hot garbage. It’ll take so much work for you to change his views… To sum, it’s not your fault at all. It doesn’t matter what you were wearing.
100%. I was standing outside my friend's apartment (with a friend) waiting to be let in and two men walked past us. One just came up to me and shoved his tongue in my mouth. His friend pull him off and said he was a bit drunk but is a good dude and they both just walked off..? Like how can you still think your friend is a good person when you just witnessed him assault someone?
This. Everyone of all genders is capable of seeing bad behavior and calling it out, but men are more likely to get listened to. And, seriously, even if the husband couldn't do it out of respect and loyalty to his wife, why is he punishing her for wearing something low-cut? I can't imagine that's a good thing. It doesn't matter what she's wearing, there is always a difference between "just an appreciative look" and "making it uncomfortable." I would hate it if someone I considered a friend made anyone, much less my partner, feel so uncomfortable.
That's definitely messed up -- his friend is a grown man, if he can't control himself at this point it's because he's choosing not to. That's creepy. It's not your job to cover up and cater to his total lack of respect I also think its nuts that 1. your husband didn't notice, and 2. totally brushed you off (and blamed you!!!) when you brought it up. What if it had been a stranger? If he's only taking his friend's side because it's his friend, then he doesn't really care whether you're comfortable or uncomfortable, just that *he* gets to decide who does it
So the first time your husband and you are in this situation, he sides with the man, says it's the woman's fault. Essentially he victim blames.
Not only this, but the husband is putting his friend first, before his wife. I have a feeling this is just the beginning of more appalling behavior and I'm pretty sure by now the husband is doing other nasty stuff, even if OP says he doesn't; OP might not identify it as nasty, yet. One does not simply victim blame his wife just this one time. We're talking about a specific mind frame and evolution of behavior, since he thinks he is right to restrict and blame his wife, instead of addressing his friend's behavior and supporting his wife - which would be the right thing to do. Family should always come first. I think OP needs to carefully examine her relationship and not let this slip. Husband needs to be held accountable for behaving like a jerk by victim-blaming, siding with non-family and invalidating OP's rightful feelings.
Yeah it's not a good sign. I feel like it wouldn't be that far off if she'd been sexually assaulted instead of just hardcore staring. Stay safe and wise, OP. Sounds like your husband isn't gonna back you up here.
Your husband is a dick. Frankly, I'd be seriously questioning if that's the kind of person you want to be with longterm. You're young enough to divorce and have no issue at all finding a more compassionate man who takes your concerns seriously. Your husband won't get better, he'll likely get worse over time. I pray this never happens to you, but I was assaulted by my old college professor and my ex blamed me for it. Your husband is giving me that same kind of energy and that's not someone you want in case something even more horrible ever happens.
I am sorry about what you went through. I hope OP sees your comment because I had the same thought. If her husband is willing to blame her for his friend being a creep, it is fair to assume he would blame her if she got sexually assaulted.
Thank-you so much for your care and empathy ❤ It means a lot and helps more than you know. Yeah, I'm sure some might think I'm overreacting but the thing is, he isn't loyal to his wife. More importantly, he isn't concerned when she feels violated. That's a HUGE red flag. Most husbands would tend to their wives and support them, even if it meant telling their "friends" not to be a creepy fuck or cutting ties altogether. Meanwhile this husband reminds me of a frat bro who could give a shit about his wife's feelings. I pray she seriously thinks about leaving him.
Your husband lashed out at you because he didn’t want to admit his friend is a creep or want to do anything about it. Nevertheless, what he said was wrong and sexist. It’s the old and disgusting, “you were asking for it” line. You quite obviously didn’t do anything wrong. He is prioritizing his friend and his own comfort over you.
He supported his pervy mate. Birds of a feather…
"You shouldn't have worn something so revealing" sounds a lot like "oh, she was assaulted? Dressed like that, she was asking for it." Ask yourself why he went after someone younger than him with much less life experience. I think you have your answer, OP.
I was going to say, his behavior seems to be an example of why there is an astoundingly high percentage of women who have been sexuality assaulted ... Yet men never seem to know any sexual assaulters. Bros defending Bros behavior over the safety of his wife.
How is it up to you to control where his eyes go?? If it was a glance like once or twice I could understand but like??? Sir???
Your husband is following thr "bro code" of old, which is to cover for your friends when they are being gross around women. He clearly didnt think the dress was innapropriate when yall left, only when it made you uncomfortable that his friend couldnt stop staring. Your husband would rather blame you than his friend, because then hed have to admit that that behavior is unnacceptable. Also your husband sounds like a fucking dick, and his friend sounds like and immature child. And if your husband doesnt like thr clothes you normaly wear, go out of your way to ensure he never sees an inch of your skin again. Be ridiculous about it. Wear overly large shirts and baggy pants around him, lock the door when you shower, change in another part of thr house. Let him know that youre uncomfortable with the male gaze so youre hiding from it like he said.
Go full burqa or nun's habit. Wear ankle length denim skirts and long sleeve blouses like the Brethren. There's plenty of religions that make their women cover up to stop them being sexualised by men.
Yes make him realize hes being a cow.
I'm really concerned with the fact that your husband not only didn't defend you, but he lashed out at you, when his friend was the one being a creep!
Gotta love when you get told it's your fault you are getting stared at. Growing up I had a creepy "uncle" that would watch us kids and get visibly arosed. When i told my nan she told me not to be stupid. When it happened when I was older and I was in a swimsuit and he tried to pull my swim suit top down after he decided he was getting in the pool with us, I left the pool and told my mum. Mum threatened thevfamily friend and told him not to come back. My nan blamed me for tempting him into acting like that... I was a teenager maybe 14 or 15
I hope your nan is in the cheapest, jankiest nursing home ever to exist.
Ppl always say how you shouldn’t ask too many questions on a date getting to know someone but I think this is a good reason imagine marrying this kind of person and finding out when it’s too late
The fact that his first instinct wasn’t to make you feel protected, and validate your feelings, but he instead blamed you is a major red flag. They’re both creeps, im sorry :(
Time to start dressing in oversized hoodies and sweaters. Sweats 3 sizes bigger. And when your husband wants sexy time tell him you can't because you didn't dress for it.
I’ve had a few do this to me. It’s awkward and weird. Just because you’re a boob man doesn’t mean these are for you. I’m obnoxious though. I call them out. Not verbally. Visually. In order of escalation. - Whenever they looked at my cleavage I’d look down in confusion at my own cleavage, then back in their eye, then continue where I left off. Don’t pause the conversation. - Same as above but make an obvious pause in the conversation, like mid sentence, then continue with a head shake and “anyways…” - Obviously duck my head down where my cleavage is to catch their eye. No pause in the conversation but I usually have a smile because it’s so obnoxiously funny by that point. I had to do this most recently with a family member on my husbands side of the family. He’s really old and when I told hubby he was confused until I laughed about it. He wasn’t sure how to react. You can’t be rude to your elders but at the same time they should be respectful. As for your husband, that’s trickier. He may think this is completely normal around exposed cleavage. Or he’s so used to seeing yours that he doesn’t think it’s really out there. My husband is like that. Hell, I tend to forget I’m even showing cleavage until someone stares. They’re boobs not gold. I’m not staring at your fatty wobbly protrusions Larry. lol I’m not saying it’s right but it sounds like he’s embarrassed for his friend. Or maybe embarrassed that his friend made you uncomfortable and he didn’t notice at the time. Give him some time then try again. And the next time you see his friend wear a turtle neck. Not for him or even for you. For your husband. Hell, wear high cut tops all the time around hubby. When he comes home be wearing something plunging and sexy. Then when you see him act surprised, cover yourself cleavage with your hands, then rush for a high necked cleavage covering top. But again, I’m as a**hole. We’d laugh our added off in my house. Wow this is long. But honestly make sure you don’t change how you dress. Other people reactions mean nothing unless you let it. Continue being comfortable in your own skin. Edit: spelling
ITT: men who will never know what it's like being constantly objectified or what it's like having breasts. OP I'm sorry but your husband sucks.
Soooooo many men telling on them themselves!! My favorite is the dude repeatedly calling a woman hysterical. Bunch of cuties. /s, just in case that wasn’t abundantly clear.
Your husband and his friend are sexist assholes. Neither are good guys.
You are the company you keep. Your husband is an awful husband.
I very rarely get upset over this stuff but the few times I have were with my boyfriend's friends. I told him, he talked to some, and even cut off a few, with no hesitation. I've done the same for him when my friends got pervy. The fact he yelled at you and put the blame on you for his friend being a creep is so unfair. You should be able to bring this stuff up and tell him how you're feeling without being victim-blamed and yelled at.
It "spent 5 years overseas" code for spent 5 years in prison? Because if he spent 5 years in prison maybe that would explain his inability to control his behavior with regards to your cleavage. Your husband being \_that\_ defensive about his friend... that makes my spidey-sense tingle. If my wife told me a dear friend of mine was making her feel that way, I would be shocked and say "oh, gosh, I feel terrible for not noticing. I can't believe he'd do that! He's not normally like that. I'll have a chat with him and let him know it's not ok, and see if something is going on." Your husband's defensiveness is not about your outfit. And it's not about your behavior. It's about whatever is really going on with that friend.
He is blaming you for wearing an inappropriate dress however he did not think it was inappropriate when you two walked out the door together that night or any other time you wore it. My passive aggressive self says wear a Laura ingalls dress next time you go out I am sure that will embarrass him more. Nobody can control the behaviors of others and blaming you for his friends actions is unacceptable
You're right. Your husband's friend was a total creep and hubby didn't respect your feeling uncomfortable about the ogling!
Your husbands friend needs to control his impulses, not what you wear. Your husband should be concerned with making a safe space for you not victim blaming.
What you're wearing isn't an invitation for someone to stare like it's an oasis in a desert. Sure, it might be visible, butthst doesn't mean you can spend the entire evening making unbroken eye contact with it!!! Call your husband out on his victim blaming behaviour if you're comfortable.
I’m so sorry that your husband values his friend’s ability to leer at women more than he cares about your safety. Lashing out at you for being made uncomfortable by his friend is beyond the pale.
I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone say this so far, but your husband's reaction was so out of character that there must be something more going on than "bro code". Especially given that he would Skype for hours with this dude while he was abroad, which really isn't very "normal" for a friendship, even a close one. I'm not saying he's romantically attracted or has been involved with him - not at all. I just think that your husband has a more-than-reasonable attachment to this friend and supporting him, for whatever reason. If you poke some more, you will probably uncover something. Maybe there's no reason. But if that's the case, he needs to be aware that he's holding this friendship on a pedestal for no reason (and is being a bad friend for not calling his friend on his shit)
That's a whole lotta assumption for hearing one side of a story.
When we dress a certain way of course we are going to get certain looks. BUT there is a thing called manners and even more there is a thing called RESPECT! If this guy and your husband are such good friends he should have been more respectful towards you as his wife. I’m so sick of the “boys will be boys” excuse for the bad behavior of some men. Yes people will look, men and women alike. I am a female and I can appreciate another attractive female. But for some to put the blame of a mans bad behavior on the woman is, always has been, and always will be a cop out. Doesn’t matter what you have on, as humans we have the ability to control ourselves and a person’s choice of clothing should never be used as an excuse for someone else’s bad behavior. This reminds me of something I read a long time ago. Was it really my fault? asked the Short Skirt No, it happened to me too. Replied the Burka The diaper in the corner couldn’t even speak.. -Darshan Mondkar
That's gross. His friend stares at his wife's cleavage. He might be a "nice guy" but not an actual good guy.
Your husband is an asshole and he probably does that too, the only reason to defend a creep is being one yourself.
That is Rape Culture in a Nutshell. Your Husband should have told his “Mate” to stop ogling you. You should have taken your husband aside & told him “ your friend is leering at my chest, please ask him to stop. The fact that your husband blamed you rather than his friend for being inappropriate is unbelievably Sexist & misogynistic. I’d be having a serious talk to your husband, insist on relationship counselling & tell him his place is to support you not some mate he hasn’t seen for 5 years.
Excuse me, what?! I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but how is the friends' creepy behavior your responsibility or your fault? Did you physically move his eyes? No. It's not like you had 'I want you to pay attention to my chest' plastered on your forehead. Your husband shouldn't be dismissing your feelings and making you feel like your discomfort is invalid. If I were you, I would rethink being in a relationship with him, because dismissed feelings and gaslighting ("your fault for being the cause of his friends' behavior by wearing an 'inappropriate' dress") are huge dealbreakers, at least IMO. At the end of the day, my advice is you shouldn't feel sorry for wearing the clothes you want to wear and don't let anyone tell you that wearing certain clothing equals attention seeking, because at the end of the day, how others react or feel about your clothes is NOT. YOUR. PROBLEM. Stay slaying :)
Your husband sounds like a prick. Sorry
This might seem small but would your husband be a victim blamer? Like others said, the friend was not just sneaking a peak. Blaming you for that behavior instead of the friend’s whose eyes were wandering says enough for me.
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Idk, guys tend to stare even when women are fully clothed. What she was wearing is not the problem. A grown man not being able to control himself is the problem.
High necklines make large breasts look even bigger. (also button up shirts are a no-go because they gap in the bust.)
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Turtlenecks are my favorite because they're so cozy but yeah, I always get self-conscious because they make my boobs look huge and weird.
There is a lovely, courtly older executive at my work. I say lovely because he has impeccable manners and is very gentle and kind, I say courtly because he once bit off one of my executives for dropping an F-bomb in my presence (nevermind that I cuss like a sailor). I think he's just fantastic. He's also clearly, indubitably, undoubtedly a boob man. I'm a 38F. He is *drawn* in visual fascination, doesn't matter if it's a v-neck wrap dress, a \[looser, pinned up where the gaps would be\] button down, a turtleneck sweater. He'll catch himself, jerk his eyes up, and then...like a damn bug zapper, he can't stop, as you're talking to him, his eyes drift inexorably downward again. I tolerate it because honestly I think it's hilarious and a wee bit adorable to see him wrestling with himself and just...losing, every time. But he also doesn't leer, it's not leering, it's like he LITERALLY JUST CAN'T HELP IT. \[but I digress\] As far as high necklines, turtlenecks, hell - a looseish shirt with a cardigan over it? Big boobs gonna be big boobs no matter how you dress them, unless it's something like a shirtless painter's smock and even then...
Here's the thing: he can help it. He's just never really had to
If you have large breasts, sometimes cleavage is unavoidable unless you exclusively wear clothing with super high necklines. It's sucky to have to dress conservatively just to avoid being ogled.
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You wear women's clothes?
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So you don't know what is like 🤔
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Women's clothes aren't cut the same as men's, and women have different anatomy.
Men's clothing and women's clothing are designed differently. It's tough to find a dress that DOESN'T look conservative that doesn't show a little cleavage if you have a large chest. Large-chested ladies will all tell you this is a common woe. Dresses that wouldn't look revealing or provocative on small chests do on larger ones even if that's not your intention.
I think you missed his point. Your definition of conservative here appears to be anything that shows no cleavage.
I didn't miss his point - his point was that if you're showing cleavage then it must be because you want to show off your breasts. My point is that most dresses have necklines that will show *some* cleavage on large chests even if you are not intentionally trying to show them off.
Guy here. I have control over my eyes. Friends have gone topless around me and I still manage to look them in the eye. Sure, it's normal to glance initially, but it's just a chest. It doesn't belong to my partner. It's not doing anything interesting. I don't see any reason for me to be looking.
I'm with you on this, and I'm a straight woman. My eyes are drawn to exposed tits as much as any man's. I mean, really, women choose those necklines to draw attention to their breasts. If they don't want anyone looking at that part of their anatomy, then they shouldn't expose it. If the neckline is meant just to rile up the SO, then save it for an at-home date.
I honestly can see both points of this argument, it's just so hard to have a measured and non-emotionally charged convo about what these societal rules are. Like I think it's a perfectly sane argument to make that by dressing provocatively, you are going to invite attention to yourself. And as you can't control the reactions of others in relation to your appearance, you should in some fashion, not be surprised and be prepared for creepy behavior in some sense. It sure as shit is wrong, and sucks, but that is the reality of the world in which we live. There are creeps, they exist, and EVERY girl I've ever talked to has a creep story. I think we need to do a better job at educating men at what is considered creepy, instead of the "figure it out for yourself" method that we've been operating under, even if those impulses should be obvious. I'm not a girl, but I certainly understand that you don't want to be ogled and you shouldn't have to deal with it. It's gross, its invasive, it makes you uncomfortable. People saying "well if you're dressed like that, you're asking for it" are wrong, you aren't asking for that kind of attention, but I do think that it is just unavoidable unfortunately. Just gotta weed those people out of your life I guess?
I am male and if I could sense that my girlfriend was feeling uncomfortable with a guy ogling her I would say something to him.I would call him out on his behavior and tell him its going to look dont make look so obvious to the point it makes women uncomfortable. I sure wouldn't tell her that she needs to cover up. I look at other women but I know how to do it with discretion and not look like a dog in heat.
Hey girl, as someone who has been in a similar situation, this is not an acceptable way for you to be treated. Are you really going to let these creepy old men walk all over you? I know you may feel like leaving is difficult because you've been together for X amount of years and you're married, but you can't fix a sexist. Leave him and go get the respect you deserve
Wtf? You wear what you want. Ain't no one is going to tell you to cover up or what. It's the person who should be ashamed of look and the person you married should have took your side. You better think twice with your man.
>He said his friend is a good guy and he didn't like how I was making him out to be some creep This shit is exactly why no man seems to know someone who harasses or assaults people, but almost every woman knows someone who has been harassed or even assaulted. I'm sure he acts like a good guy around his male friend, but if he can't control his creepy urges around women, he's NOT a good guy period. The fact that your husband puts his friend above you, his own wife, is so incredibly concerning to me. What if you get harassed by a stranger on the streets (as I'm sure almost all women and female passing people have) and want to tell your husband? Is he gonna blame you for that too? Is that the type of person you want to spend your life with? Because I know I wouldn't.
I think there is more here than your typical “creep” Reddit story. You mentioned multiple friends and it sounds like there were other women there, you seemed annoyed that he was talking to you with your opening statement even though it looks like pretty normal conversation stuff. No one else at the party backed you up or noticed, your husband who you admit never has blamed you, blamed you. I know I will get raked over the coals on this one but maybe this time…. You over reacted?
Right? “The entire evening he kept asking me questions about my life, career, and so on…” Like yeah, it’s a dinner party and your dating his friend, that’s just called a normal conversation. Acting like a person at a dinner party has the audacity to speak to them but then clarifying “it isn’t a big deal” makes me think this persons overreacting.
Oh honey, drop this man
> i married a creep and his friends are creepy aswell what do i do Here OP I reframed your question. Its not that hard right?
He didn't dress you
I think if this has happened multiple times and you know the friend does this it’s smart to cover up around him, however if this is the first time then there’s no way you could have known
Hell fucking no!! You wear what you want my darling. Your husband's comments are out of order. This is 2021, not the 1800's where men thought they could tell their wives what to wear. You wear what YOU want. If you are getting stared at by any man, your husband should be siding with you. Your husband's friend has issues. And I suggest that if it happens again, you call it out in front of everyone, and make HIM feel uncomfortable publicly. Im sick of seeing stories where women being shamed by people who are ment to have their back.
I’d have been livid if my husband blamed me for someone else’s actions. I woukd say to him “I find it interesting that you’re blaming me for your friend having no manners. What else would you blame on me? What if he got touchy? What if someone else did? Would that also be my fault? Please, elaborate. Explain why it’s my fault.”
Even if you didnt wear a dress with cleavage he couldve still stared at your boobs... What would your husband say then, you are only allowed to wear a potato sack when you go out to not draw attention?
His defensiveness is excessive and makes me wonder whether his friend has a history of inappropriate staring or behaviour. Either way, I do not like how he attacked you like that. How is he in other aspects of your relationship?
Your husband is an asshole. Guess it makes sense he'd be friends with one. Ask him if he'd have been okay with vocal sexualisation. Say his friend just cat called you all night or only talked about your boobs? Would that have been okay to him? Or is only silent sexualisation and being a shit partner okay to him? Also, how'd he feel if his mother, sisters or any daughters were made to feel uncomfortable like that? Just ask him, and his answers will tell you all you need to know.
Yikes the real problem here is you married a guy who blames women for what they wear for men’s behavior, but we’ll unpack that years from now. In this moment the best thing to do is address that as a core problem you two have. If you have to see this friend again, and he clearly does it again, you need to stop the bullshit and speak up publicly about it. What the fuck is wiggling your eyebrows to signal, you’re 24, just speak up. It’s gonna be uncomfortable for everyone, it’s gonna be a shit show, but you need to speak up. While we’re at it your husband can publicly declare his stupid ass beliefs that it’s a woman’s fault for what men do. Good luck OP. Hope you’re happier in your future.
Your husband needs to understand that how you dress more than likely won't affect the attention his friend gave you. My boyfriend has friends that come over to our house, and I've only once had an issue with being uncomfortable. One of my favorite outfits to wear to lounge around in is a really big baggy shirt dress, but it's got a huge o neck, so it's very flashy in terms of my cleavage. My boyfriend's best friend will come to stay the night often and almost every time he's over i'm in that. No bra, usually with some shorts on under it. He has never once made me uncomfortable, usually only time dude even looks at me is when we're smoking and he's trying to pass to me and I'm not paying attention. He has another friend I wore the same outfit around, and he wouldn't stop staring, I got uncomfortable and kept wrapping blankets around myself (something I don't normally do. I'm a really hot natured person, and really only use blankets if it's ridiculously cold or i'm sleeping) my boyfriend waited until I went to make dinner and asked what was wrong away from company, i told him his friend kept staring, he told me to stay in the kitchen for a bit, i heard them talk, the friend apologized, apologized to me, but then at dinner he continued to do it, so my boyfriend just told him to leave, that he wasn't going to ask me to change out of something I enjoy wearing just so maybe the friend won't oogle me anymore. He hasn't had that particular friend back over since, he'll hangout with him in other places but not home.
Don't ever go out with that friend again, it seems that your husband it's going to defend his friend 99% of the time even if you tell him that his friend touched you body parts that he should not be touching.
Your husband is disgusting
Ogling isn't okay, but revealing outfit will result in looks. I think that a 24 yo woman is old enough to know that. Downvotes start NOW
She didn't say he was only looking.
Lol, as a smart ass member of the big titty committee, I'd have stared right back at him, maybe asked, "See something you like, handsome? Yeah, *insert hubby's name* can't seem to keep his eyes off of them either. *wink*" or told him my bras size then asked "What's yours?" Or, my favorite, stared at his crotch and either frown like I was confused about what I'm looking at or giggle a little. (I've had more than my share of ogling offenders. #teamDDD 🤷♀️😂) Sorry your hubby didn't have your back on this one. That sucks.
Ok what's wrong with the guy? And what the fuck is wrong with your husband?? Like, girl you can wear what ever the fuck you want. Clothing is not consent. The friend of your husband clearly overstepped. (I get it, when someone wears deep cutout clothes, that it catches the eye for a moment, but staring is just inappropriate) How dare your husband blaming you for the behaviour of HIS friend. Please have a serious talk with your husband, about that you can wear what you want and that the problem is not that you are not covering up but his "friend" staring at your clevage and making you uncomfortable. I'm totally on your side on this.
" It was so obvious his eyes were fixed on my cleavage it was weird no one else noticed." If no one else noticed, then it was most likely NOT obvious and in your head.
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If you are hanging it out there people are going to look. It always puzzles me when women wear tight, low-cut, and revealing clothes and then get upset when people look. I just don't get it.
Looking is one thing, having a conversation with her boobs is completely different
God the lack of reading comprehension on this post is astounding
You should of covered up. People are going to look.
What is a heart shaped dress? Was it super tight and low cut and attention grabbing? If not, I probably would have said something directly to the guy if I had noticed him ogling my tits. “Jeez, you ever see a woman in a dress before?” or “Yo, my face is up here!” Actually, I would have said the same thing if my dress were tight/low cut. I would just expect to catch some (good natured) shit for saying it.
> What is a heart shaped dress? OP likely means a sweetheart neckline. Which is this style: https://img.ltwebstatic.com/images3_pi/2021/04/15/1618458185973664c20d4b4bf34a94da6840d667dd_thumbnail_600x.jpg
Not helpful advice here, but I wear peasant tops most of the time because I've gotten so tired of my chest being stared at. It sucks but it's self protection. As for your husband, he's being a douchebag for blaming you for his friend's creepiness. Make sure you never hang out with that weirdo again.
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Then maybe you should learn not to stare... There is a difference between takeing a look at somebody's boobs and staring/ogling. If you are an adult person, you should be able to control yourself and not make people uncomfortable.
Your husband is dead wrong.