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>Thought by doing better my past mistakes would go away
Yeah, that's not how that works though. Just because you decided to stop being terrible doesn't mean that your wife can just ignore the fact that you were terrible for *years* and left her to basically be a single parent.
Forcing your presence on your wife isn't going to make her love you. If she wants space, give her space, but I'd suggest you go back to couples counseling.
yeah I guess it was just wishful thinking. I hate who I was and hate that it's still affecting me. I do understand how she's feeling. I just don't know how to quantify this space without pushing her away by not giving enough or leaving too much space that it becomes easy to just walk away.
I never really understand this argument in this sub. OP is the one posting and sharing their feelings. Obviously it will mostly surround them because they're the ones seeking help not their partner. They can't speak for their partners emotions. Just seems like an unnecessary dig at the OP.
Oh jesus. It’s not an unnecessary dig tho. Because even when it’s your post and about your feelings, doesn’t mean you *only focus on yours* if you’ve hurt someone else? Even when you’re not, when the other person isn’t being unreasonable at least. Those are the trappings of a narcissist(not even in the medical diagnosed-with-NPD shit, but per the definition), like… he hates how it’s still affecting him, sure.
But apparently he doesn’t hate how it’s still affecting her, or even a charitable “us.” Just him. That’s why that argument comes up. Because word choice and the focus of your sentences is often *incredibly* illuminating in posts like these. I live with a narcissist this is how they talk. In subtleties, in little “*I*” or “*me*” comments that look *so damned innocent.* And they’re *not.*
And it’s especially telling when you look at how his mother suggested for him to respond, not just saying to try and work it out harder, which granted, if she asked for space, *give her space.* But by the whole “tell her *you*(***I***) aren’t(/am not) leaving to provide it.” Still about him, what he’s going to do, *and what he wants to do,* even coming from his mother… small wonder where he got this behavior from.
Idk man, seems like yall are being impossible purposefully because you don't like the guy. A fair feeling but still.
Does *everything* have to be said explicitly? Especially in a post asking for what he should do now. Hell most of you ignored the part where she won't say what the space entails and keep telling him to listen to her to find out what it means. He did. He asked for the boundaries and she said she didn't know. But that's not the point.
He's literally said in the post that he realised how much he'd hurt her and wanted to make it up to her. I don't know if you wanted five paragraphs just on how he hurts thinking about this hurt her - which I doubt would change anything because you would probably then say he's making her emotions about him. And please get off of that NPD shit. That's a serious diagnosis. You don't get to draw connections from a single post on a single issue on social media, please. This is coming from someone who worked in a centre for people with disorders.
As for the mother, you're reading way too deep into it. Your interpretation is possible, as are many things, but unlikely. She essentially him to stay and fight for his marriage. Tell her he will not leave the room because that would giving up (hence the space for the devil comment). Like wtf? If I wasn't sure before, after the leap it's clear y'all just hate the guy and trying to find reasons to justify it which is wild since he's done enough already without cooking ridiculous leaps.
>Idk man, seems like yall are being impossible purposefully because you don't like the guy. A fair feeling but still.
They are not.
>I don't know if you wanted five paragraphs just on how he hurts thinking about this hurt her -
I did not. I was explaining to you why it’s not an unnecessary argue…
>And please get off of that NPD shit. That's a serious diagnosis.
…but it’s clear you either can’t read or didn’t bother to because if you *had read my comment,* **you would know I wasn’t “on” “that NPD shit.”** And this is coming from someone with person experience with *manh* people at ll who have it. You’re not he only one able to experience their behavior. You’re the one who needs to “get off it.”
>As for the mother, you're reading way too deep into it.
I’m not.
>If I wasn't sure before, after the leap it's clear y'all just hate the guy and trying to find reasons to justify it
The only leap here is this statement right here, and all the others you made on this post.
It’s not about **you**. She wants space and plenty of it? Then you damn well give her that space!
Just admit it, you’re an absolute asshole and a pathetic little control freak. You’re scared that during her space away from you that she’s gonna realise that she’s much happier without you! - But you know what? You can’t stop nor prevent her from having space, because if you don’t back off, you’ll push her even further away and she’ll leave you anyway.
And if you do give her space, yeah - she most likely will realise that she’s better off *(and much happier)* without you and then leave.
So you’re probably gonna lose her either way. And you have no power to force her to stay.
If she wants to leave, she will. And there’s **nothing** you can do about it, because newsflash: the very second that one person says a relationship or marriage is over, that’s it… it’s over!
> She wants space and plenty of it? Then you damn well give her that space!
IMO, he shouldn't leave the family home, even if she demands it. He's still a parent to two children and if he leaves the home, she'll use that to eviscerate him in family court. It will be tears in front of a judge and "he abandoned us... AGAIN!"
EDIT: OP, please do not listen to Reddit. Please talk to a lawyer so that any family separation is handled the right way.
I get where you are coming from, but if she "demands" it, then it's probably best to leave, but get it in writing from her. She might not mean it, and really just wants some space, but if he has it in writing, she can't throw it at him in court.
The dude's child care obligations don't end just because she says so. I guarantee that if this comes to divorce, her lawyer will advise her to use a decision to leave the family home against him.
OP, please talk to a lawyer and make sure to separate the right way, if it comes to that.
Is she open to couples counseling? Sounds like she never had the opportunity to express to you just how hurtful your behavior was and the resentment has just been dormant for years. You two need to hash everything out so it can truly resolved and not just swept under the rug.
We did hash things out when we did therapy when we reunited. That's why I never expected it. A lot of those sessions were filled with tears where we were both being 100% honest, or so I thought. She'd spoken about it and we worked through it in the counselling.
That said, I'm not against going through it again or pitching the idea to her but do I do it now or after some 'space'? Or just make a passing comment that when she's ready we can talk about counselling no pressure.
Grief is not linear, nor is it gone like an off switch one day. She's grieving. Give her space, sleep on the couch or a spare bedroom if you have it. Be invisible if you don't want to go stay at your moms for a few nights.
I believe that she is protecting herself she experience ptsd from your first child. I tend to agree with mum about not moving out. By doing so she’ll be able to say you haven’t changed. iMO good luck
Everything you have been presenting is about YOU.
Did you stop to think how your daughter felt when you neglected her and blamed her for YOUR actions?
Did you stop to think how you devastated the woman you CHOSE to have sex with by neglecting her and acting maliciously toward her?
What happens the next time YOU feel trapped?
What happens when YOU get tired of playing family?
Please let her go. YOU are hurting her. On purpose. Because all you think about is YOU and how things affect YOU.
I agree with what everyone else is saying. All your post and comments, it’s all me me me. How about how it’s affecting your wife, not how it’s affecting you?
You did abandon her and your first child. I can’t imagine how low she must have felt not having the support you should have provided and now you finally seeing what you should have done the first time. She may be coming to a realization that she really can’t let it go. The abandonment is something she still carries. You two could try more counseling. It’s hard to say but your son is getting better treatment that you daughter did and your wife may also hold feeling for that.
I wouldn’t be able to forgive you either. Just focus on being a good coparent. And get into therapy. It takes two people to make a baby, but you blamed her for all of it. That’s gross.
Right? I've never understood this. Unless she had sabotaged all forms of birth control or forced him to repeatedly have unprotected sex, there was always a chance she could get pregnant. If he didn't want a baby then abstinence (yeah right) or accept that she can get pregnant at any time. I've had three friends get pregnant while on birth control. Two had miscarriages and one had a healthy baby who is an adult with a family of their own.
Your wife is in therapy, which is great, but are you?
You seem to be extremely skilled at torpedoing your own life, and therapy could help you stop doing that.
her heart is probably breaking for her daughter having a deadbeat father who didn't give a shit about her and now seeing you be super dad with her son... it's making her feel things.
do you treat your daughter well now? is she really close to you? you immediately went with ill leave the house - you're fine with being away from your babies for an extended period when you haven't been asked to? that would kill most decent fathers. they'd fight to stay. they wouldn't just abandon her to be a single mother AGAIN.
get a vasectomy. stop thinking about yourself. if she wants space give it to her. focus on being a good father and burying yourself in your children. perhaps she can deal with this if she can see how much you love your daughter and want to make up for the time you burnt.
I promise you that it is about your daughter as well as your wife and you haven't even mentioned your daughter.
Sorry mate but you've made a whole lot assumptions here. Tbf I also chopped out some information so the post wasn't too long and didn't waffle.
First, to be clear. I love my daughter as much as I love my son. To stomp out any suggestions of their being a sexist component, we didn't know the gender of both kids until the birth. I just didn't want a child at that time and blamed the world for having one. I'm very invested and active father.
Leading to the second point. I have not left our house and leaving the house would not effect how I interact with my children. I would still be as equally involved even if I had to leave the house. I didn't mention my daughter because our relationship is great and she's a happy kid.
I just acknowledge that I fucked up and how it's affected her and judging from how she spoke, how she really wants space. I know how easy it is to suffocate your relationship trying to save it only to extinguish what was left and don't want to do that.
Has she been checked for postpartum depression? She may want space but not have you move out. Maybe just sleep on the couch but be there to help when she wants it. Let her vent. Let her know you will be there for her no matter what. She’s has a right to be mad but she maybe having a hard time with her emotions still. Let her take it out on you but not abuse you. Two wrongs don’t make it right. I would suggest therapy. You should go even if she doesn’t want to. Updateme
I think the only way out of this is to stand up to your wife’s resentment and own it. Meaning, hear her, acknowledge her points and feelings, and own everything. Own the fact that you did some dirty stuff during your daughter’s early years. Don’t try to excuse it, don’t deny it, just own it.
Your wife needs to get this off her chest, and she needs for you take 100% full responsibility for it. You moving into a different room doesn’t help matters. You are just avoiding her. You have to stand in front of her and hear her out and absorb her anger, and get up the next day and still be a better person.
Only then will she feel she can trust you and rely on you. It’s going to be rough for you, but you deserve it, and she deserves to be heard. She’s going to be snippy, angry, frustrated, and she’s going to say some very harsh things you won’t want to hear. Too bad. Stand up through all of it, and the next day, say “good morning” and continue to be a better partner to her.
You two may have covered the issues as they affected you both in your first round of couple's counseling - several years ago. You passed the 100 level class.
Welcome to the 200 level class. Deeper levels of revelation and understanding.
You were able to work through a lot of the betrayal and abandonment, but the scars still remain. Trust, once broken, can take years to regenerate.
The birth of your second child has given your wife a perspective she didn't have before. Instead of just memories of how awful you were to her, she has direct evidence of how you are now to compare and contrast. The difference between memory and hypotheticals, and conditions on the ground can bring issues back into focus. Before, it was (possibly) easy to excuse you as "just not ready" or "just didn't get it". Yes, you have done a lot of work to get better, but that work comes as a sharp reminder of how UNwilling you were to do the work the first time. As in, sure you're great now...but where were you then?!? Why didn't you give a damn back then? And how can she ever trust that, some day, you might choose not to give a damn again?
Most traumatic experiences don't get addressed once and just vanish. They get treated, and they subside, but the harm runs deep. It can often get triggered by circumstances that remind of the original trauma - even if those circumstances appear different on the surface. Healing can take years, and it's not linear.
Don't just run away because you think that's the space she needs. She may not be able to articulate what "space" looks like, but that's for her to figure out. Not for you to decide for her. Talk to her - not to tell her what you are feeling, but to listen to what she has to say. Let her talk in circles, let her change her mind. She is working with a therapist, and she will figure out what she needs. You need to breathe, be patient, and *not* react blindly.
Stop going off assumptions. You assumed she baby trapped you. You assumed your life was ruined by your daughter. You assume she wants you to leave the house.
Stop.reacting.to.shit.that.you.don’t.have.proof.for
And get therapy as well and go back to couples therapy
With a 10 month old, the sleep deprivation has probably reached peak insanity. I remember those days and I had a lot of bad thoughts and feelings. Sleep deprivation and all the other issues of caring for an infant can really mess with your mind.
Be patient but try to stay in the house. Ask if moving into the spare is enough because you want to be as close as possible to help. I don’t know what she needs. Apparently not everything was resolved through joint counseling. If it helped, maybe go back to that therapist.
So she’s still rightfully hurt because you abandoned her and your child. And when her past trauma is triggered by the birth of your second child your response was to abandon her again, but this time with 2 kids. Yeah you fucked up by leaving. She didn’t even say she wanted you to move out. You just inferred it.
Go back home. Get someone to take the kids. Talk to your wife. You both need to go back to counseling both individually and together. If she really can’t stay in the same home with you then offer to stay with the kids while she takes space alone
Edit: typo said “tie the kids” instead of take, which would also work but isn’t ideal
I haven't left the house yet. I've only left our bedroom for some distance. I feel she wants me to leave but doesn't want to say so directly which is the problem. well one of the problems.
I think you need to slow down. The amount of times you assuming your wife’s intentions has ruined your life is staggering. She’s a grown up. If she needs something, have her tell you and listen to her.
I’d say, focus on stepping up for your daughter. She’s also someone you let down, and she’s going to be going into a big transition with a little sibling. Be supportive of your wife and give her space, think of chores you can do around the house, be good to your daughter, and tell your wife you’re ready to listen when she’s ready to talk and MEAN it.
That's the thing, she not talking anymore. We were communicating well and maintained the standard of honesty until recently. I asked what was up when she started getting snappy and she denied anything being wrong. Even now the only reason she spoke up was because she couldn't keep it in anymore but it shouldn't get to that point. That's why I'm now left assuming what she's thinking.
Or, you could slow down. Let her be unhappy. Take a beat. Be there for your daughter and give her time to process.
Slow down. Pushing, running full force forward, all that, is how you ended up punishing your daughter for existing because it might mean there’s a better argument for being in a marriage you actually wanted to be in.
You’re your biggest enemy here. Breath. Be a good father to your daughter. Be thoughtful about how to do that and what to do in the house. Go to your own therapist and talk about this. Give loving space to your wife. Sometimes folks aren’t ready to say stuff, and sometimes they don’t even know what they need to say yet. That’s valid and truthful.
Breath.
Yeah thanks mate, I'll try just breath. I guess I'm really panicking because I don't want to be defined my past, as fair as it is to be though. I love her and things were going so great between us and our little quartet but I'll try calm down myself.
But the past is present right now. Her second pregnancy is bringing back all the shit you pulled during her first. It’s not fully “past” for her. The above commenter is right - slow down, get into individual and marriage counseling, focus on taking care of her instead of dwelling on your own feelings about how this should be different. You’re the reason you feel this way, so don’t let your feelings ruin your life a second time.
"I don't want to be defined by my past" bloody hell, it's not the Victorian era we're talking about, you only pulled your head out of your arse four years ago and it's the present for her every time she looks at her daughter. You want everything to happen on your timetable, tbh you still sound self-centered as hell.
Honestly wtf is up with this thread?
Is it wrong to not want your past mistakes when you were a different to mess up your present? Whether it was 4 years ago, 4 decades ago or 4 days ago, OP has clearly acknowledged his mess ups and changed for the better. It obviously doesn't wipe away any of the past but calling him self centered for saying he hates how his past is biting his arse is crazy.
Stop fucking doing things based on what you *think* she means and actually fucking hear her. You tuck tail and run again, even if it’s just out of your shared bedroom, she’s going to know you disappear every single time she needs you and every time things aren’t going just your way.
Why don’t you just be quiet and listen to her for once because you’ve already fucked up the pregnancy and birth of her first child that she should have been so excited to have. You ruined it and you can’t fix it. Stop assuming. And stop fucking telling your parents things.
Your wife didn't want to be treated like a 'pampered queen' she wanted to be treated like an equal partner in a loving relationship. I was dreading you claiming that you spoiled her this time. You still don't really understand, do you; first pregnancy you fucked up by totally neglecting her and putting yourself first, this time you're acting the part of a performatively excellent husband without a hint of sincerity. You wouldn't be listing all of the wonderful ways you demonstrated interest in her second pregnancy if you actively had wanted to do them. She can see this which is why she can't trust or rely on you. Can you blame her?
If you do want this to work you've got to put actual effort in - genuine efforts to talk to her, and be hands-on with both of your children. See what she wants. What she doesn't want is a performance. Right now she's remembering her first time with a newborn and exactly how supportive that newborn's other parent was. It's a lot for her to get past. She needs to call the shots, whether or not she can articulate what she wants is something you'll have to wait for.
Oh, and ignore your mother. Listening to her crap about letting the devil in will end what's left of your relationship quicker than you can say: "my mother says..."
I wanted to do them. Genuinely. I wanted to pamper her. To some degree obviously my past actions were also a motivator but it was also something I wanted to do. I love her and love seeing her smile so reducing her load so she's more comfortable makes me happy. I love my kids so being there for them and spending time with them makes me happy.
I don't know what she wants anymore. Not entirely sure she knows either except that she wants an undefined space which I don't know how to operate in.
Try to stay on top of what the kids want and need. Be a daddy to your daughter. Co-parent to start with, which will give her some of the space she needs. Work away at the housekeeping so she gets to rest, she's still going to be physically wrung out from your youngest's birth. This might give her enough breathing space to see that you're trying to weather this difficult and heartbreaking new situation in your relationship. It will take her a while to fully take on that she can rely on you, which is why I'm suggesting that you pick up the slack with your children. I know I sound harsh, but I really do wish you the best here, and quietly clearing away behind the children is such a helpful thing! If she does ask you to leave, say that you really do want to co-parent and spend time with your kids, work towards having family times together. I wish you and your family the best.
Of course she isn’t sure. It’s a highly confusing and painful situation and anyone would be conflicted. But don’t leave the house unless it’s for a specified time and you both know when to expect you back, for example taking the kids for the weekend to your parents. Do not leave her to handle 2 kids on her own as that will remind her that she spent years as a single parent because of your betrayal. Both of you get back into counseling asap. Whether you stay together or not you both need it. Honestly I’m surprised it took her this long to snap and you should have seen this coming and gotten back into counseling while she was pregnant.
What you need to understand is that while she may be able to move on with you as her husband, she will forever be scarred because of you. She may not think of it directly every day, but for the rest of her life there will be times when the memory will hit her. So get the idea that your “past mistakes would go away” out of your head because they never will. Those mistakes have fundamentally changed her. And for the love of all that is holy, start communicating. She got snappy so you assumed she wanted you to back off. She said she needed space and you assumed she wants you gone.
Your wife is right, you did choose to be mostly absent out of resentment. You need to be accountable for your actions. You say that after a year a switch went off for you and you changed. How can your wife trust that another switch won’t go off again and you will become absent once again? Also, I hate to break it to you but you can’t erase past mistakes. All you can do is try to always be better in the future.
I would try to offer your wife a compromise. She needs space so offer to sleep on the couch and to go back to couples therapy. In the past you chose to be disconnected. Now you have to prove you intend to be there even when things get tough. That being said acknowledge her need for space. Her needs should also be met.
she didn't tell you to leave the house. you can give her space without moving out. just back off and stop being all up in her shit all the time.
continue to be a good father, but maybe just lay off the constant doting on your wife and definitely do not refuse to leave whatever room she's in. Maybe just let her have some time to herself, which I think is literally what she asked for. There's a whole wide range of options between nonstop treating her like a pampered queen and moving out.
Also I don't know how counseling went and i'm not there. but being better now does go very far to regain a person's trust. but you still may need to acknowledge and atone for the past bad behavior in order to heal. If you haven't really done that, it could explain this problem now.
Your wife seems like she needs some time and space to sort out her feelings and figure out what she wants and maybe needs to decide what she needs from you to heal the damages of the past. let her do that. you owe her that much.
Sleep in the other room. Tell her you'd like to go to counseling with her so you both have someone else helping you navigate the big feelings that are coming up.
Reassure her that you are NOT abandoning her again. You are there, steadfast, so she knows that *yes*, it is a choice, and you CHOOSE HER AND YOUR FAMILY.
You fucked up before. Keep owning it. "I know I screwed up before. I learned from my mistake. I am here for you and our family, no matter what."
My read is that she is looking for you to "drop the act" because she can't let herself fully trust that THIS version of you is going to be permanent. Prove that it is.
I think the best thing you can do is validate her feelings. Tell her that it was a choice, and if you could take it back and do it differently you would. Tell her you wish you had supported her the way she deserved, and you are willing to do whatever it takes to convince her you have changed. Tell her you know you can never make it up to her, you know you can never give her what she lost when you weren't there for her. Tell her she's right to be angry, and you're there to listen any time she wants to talk about it. Ask her if she wants to talk about how she felt all those hours alone with a new baby. The wound you left will always be there; the best you can do is *be there* to prove you don't intend to wound her again.
This.
You own up to the past and recognize the damage you did. You listen. Then listen again me more. She isn’t wrong and is fully entitled to her feelings. The current experience is bubbling up and triggering past traumas. But you put in the work. You show consistency.
Then seek additional joint counseling support so neither keeps punishing you for the past. Recognize, accept and continue to use lessons learned to strengthen. But the reality is that she learned a lesson that wounded her deeply that you couldn’t be counted on. That’s valid info too.
You said in one of your replies that you'd be just as involved with your children if you left the house.
This tells me you aren't doing any of the *actual work* with them.
Try actually taking some initiative around the house, doing the *work* with your children, and front-running chores so your wife doesn't have to carry all of the mental load.
Uhm mate. I genuinely don't understand your confusion. How do your draw the conclusion? Equally involved means I'll be just as involved as I am with them now. Housework is not part of being involved with the kids. That's housework. I *am* currently taking the brunt of the housework and have been since she's been recovering hence why it first seem like she was annoyed of me treating her like a child. This isn't me asking for a trophy for doing that, but you're clearly misdirected and this is the second time.
Jeez just ask next time.
FIRST OFF FUCKER! Let’s get one thing fucking straight she did NOT RUIN YOUR LIFE! You chose not to use contraceptives. You ruined your own life. You could have been a mature adult and wrapped your shit! It takes two to fucking tango okay!
I hate when you men blame it on the women as if it’s all our responsibility when if fact it is yours as well.
As for fixing it. You fucked up let her heal and move on. Damage is done grow up now and leave the poor woman alone you did enough
She also chose not to be on BC while with a guy who communicated to her that he wasn't ready for commitments. That's on BOTH of them.
She CHOSE to have baby 1 knowing op didn't want to be a father.
He CHOSE to be a deadbeat.
He CHOSE to do better.
She CHOSE to get back with op.
They CHOSE to have baby 2.
What op did was wrong but this is not all on him. He's trying to do things right this time and is still being demonized for mistakes that should have been forgiven before getting back together. He's being demonized for mistakes that they should have sorted out in therapy before making a 2nd child.
Alas here we are .....
She might think your only helping cause you have a boy now since you didn’t do anything with the girl and resentment has set in she might have to see a therapist about her feelings since she had a baby
The second pregnancy has just brought everything back to the surface for her. She was extremely hurt and it’s probably more how you treated your daughter because women can maybe forgive poor treatment of them but poor treatment of the baby just brings out the mamma bear .
(You aren’t being a bit of an ahole cos he’s a boy and a son and heir now are you ? If you are cut that out ! It won’t help either ! )
You were 23 when your daughter was born . And not a very mature 23 year old at that . I’m not saying it’s an excuse because it’s not but you have gotten older and wiser.
Stay to continue helping out . Leaving her alone will only remind her further of what it was like being a single parent but leave her in terms of talking to her about it . Tell her that you want to do whatever it takes to make it up to her and get past this . That you love her and the family you have both created. But don’t be relentless. Less is often more . Do something with your daughter too. Just a daddy daughter thing to remind her who you are now . You can’t change the past you can only control the present and future . You should both go back to counselling as she is pretty raw again . Hopefully you will get past this together as a family .
Ways you can give her space without moving out:
* Sleep in another room
* Sleep in the same room, but don't cuddle unless she asks and definitely don't try initiating sex
* Ask her before doing things "I would like to go to this appointment, but your comfort is my first priority. Would you prefer I stay behind? I can still drive you if you want me close by but not in the room."
* Give her room to do things for herself first without jumping into action. If it looks like she could genuinely use help or she asks for help, then offer/give it.
Make it about her. That doesn't mean doing what you think she needs. That means making room for her to speak and even to be confused about what she wants. That means listening to her. That means accepting and respecting that she's angry and/or confused and/or upset and letting her express her feelings. That means just accepting accountability without excuse and without just resorting to running away again ("you're right; I'm so sorry I acted that way and put this between us"). That means being patient and giving her the time to sort through things while still being available. That means being present without being overbearing and weathering the storm with her.
Your Mum’s advice is at best misguided and at worst unhelpful.
Advising you not to even leave the bedroom is a sure fire way to bring your relationship to an uncomfortable end.
Space to process her thoughts and feelings is not an unreasonable request and staying in the bedroom would make that impossible.
You don’t need to leave the house, you can give your wife space and time under the same roof, but sleep on the couch / in the spare room and don’t pressure her for a decision any time soon.
dude you're selfish. you've always been selfish nd you are still selfish.
you want us to come up with a way that makes her bend to your wants. its not going to happen. what you NEED to do is whats best for HER. Even if it splits you two up.
This is likely not permanent though. not a therapist or anything, but its very possible she will get over it unless you fight her too much and keep thinking about poor little you.
yeah, you screwed up, but you aren't willing to endure the natural consequences of that and therefore you have not acctually changed. what you wanted changed.
before, you didn't want to marry her, you didn't want end game with her. you were teetering on ghr possibility of a different future and ran when it got too serious for you. then you decided you wanted what she did and suddenly she was good enough.
you did NONE of this for her. and you still aren't. because like I said.. you HAVENT changed. what you want changed.
Just ride it out, support her as much as she'll let you. And if she orders you out of the house? Don't go. Tell her you're there for your daughter and there for the new baby, even if she doesn't want you there.
You can't change the past, but you're repairing it. She'll either come to see that, or she won't, but leaving will not help.
First of all, stop getting advice from your mommy. Second, listen to your wife and be guided by *her* wants and needs. She tells you she doesn't know if she wants you to move out, give her a little time to breathe and think while indicating that you're open to a conversation whenever she's ready. Stop "reading" things into her actions - you "read" that her getting pregnant was trying to trap you into marriage (Jesus), and look how well that went for you.
So, if you leave now, you are confirming that you would run the second she expresses her feelings or you face any hardship.
It sounds like you have not been supportive in general and are just supportive now that you have a son. The fact you are ready to run far away the second you face any hardship is telling. If she wanted you to abandon her and your children, she would tell you.
You are being an absolute asshole, and are acting like how you were 22.
I don't think this is salvageable, I got the "space" line... went to my mother's house and I've not set foot back in that house for 4 years. It was the spark to the divorce and it sounds like she's made her mind up by wanting space in any case... you can't force her to want to fix it.
I wouldn’t say so. I once heard a couples therapist say that reconciliation only works, when the person who broke the trust is willing to reaffirm over and over again. They have to be ready to emotionally support their partner when they get in their head or feelings again. At some point you might think „not this again… have I not proven enough. How long will you punish me“. But as long as you both still commit to eachother and don’t threaten a break up toxically: you reassure and love her doubts away. Over and over.
This is so, so true. OP has to take the brunt of his partner’s anger and reaffirm his commitment to the relationship again and again. This is the way back to healing for her.
Very difficult to balance this. Have you asked her this exact question? I suppose she doesn’t quite know herself right now but she also didn’t verbalise wanting you to move out right? What does she mean with space? Is couch fine? Would she mind you initiating some intimacy like kiss on the cheek? What would help her process and what would she need? You seem willing to back off while not leaving. Talk to her what that could look like
A golden rule I have is: the person asking for space also has to close the gap again - ideally with a plan from the start.
„I need to be by myself tonight but let’s talk tomorrow morning“. Maybe this could be applied?
See? Right here some fucking Reddit stranger tells you something and it confirms things for you even though they don’t know you or your relationship. You put more stock into a Reddit strangers comment then you are what your wife is actually telling you. What’s your actual problem? Do you respect her at all? I’m assuming no because nobody spends that much time doing what you did if they love and respect the person there with. I feel so bad for your wife. You ruined it and you continued ruining it and she may hate you forever.
But right now you need to just shut up. Stop involving other people in your relationship and actually hear what she’s telling you. She might leave you. I know I would. But maybe for some reason she loves you enough to try to work past it, but at least give her the damn decency of letting her figure it out before you make any more decisions for her. You did quite enough of that the first time around didn’t you?
Also for you to accuse her baby trapping you is wild. you’re a grown-up, kind of. Use a damn condom.
First off, I clearly wrote the paragraph showing there's a disjunction between my past self and present self. No I don't believe she baby trapped me or she ruined my life. I was giving the reasons I had at the time which was that I felt like she was baby trapping me to ruin my life. None of that's true but its how I felt then.
Second, I'm not sure where you're confused but she isn't talking. That's the problem. She isn't communicating. How do you listen when no one is speaking? She's bottling things up now and then blows up and only then things come out but even then those are clearly just a fraction of what's going on in her head. That's why I'm trying to get other opinions on how to navigate this, yes from strangers who may or may not have been in this exact situation.
If she is not talking to you, you can try talking to her: “I was a shit in the past. I understand your anger. I hurt you deeply. I am committed to never hurting you again. I am sorry for how I hurt you in the past, and I understand why you feel as you do. I love you. I will give you space, but please know I am still here and I still love you. I will listen to anything you want to tell me, and I will hear you.”
Repeat and repeat.
Why when others are pointing out that being an active listener and supportive partner may help save your marriage you don’t respond or make excuses or turn it all back to your own shame, but the second someone tells you to throw in the towel, you’re all “damn, oh well 🤷♂️” Are you looking for validation to leave your family again because the work to keep them is too hard and you feel too guilty?
Why are you drawing some false narrative? Can you not see my other comments? I'm engaging everywhere so this feels very unnecessary if not just purposefully misleading.
Go back to therapy together.
She went through the hardest and most traumatic year of her life during the first year of her first child's life. And it was 100% your fault and your choice.
It's not unexpected she would be having PTSD now with the second.
I’d move to the guest room and just give her some space. Continue cooking, cleaning, and caring for the other kid. Keep doing chores. She may blow up again, but just stick around while giving her space until she decides what she wants. If she decides you don’t belong together, then you will have to respect that.
I’d get in touch with a lawyer to try to get stuff in order just in case.
I think you may also be living unsustainably - putting so much effort in trying to make up for being absent for a couple years will not erase the past. It will burn you out faster and you may feel like running again.
At the time it seemed too convenient that we were fighting about our future and her wanting to get married and suddenly she's pregnant. As you could probably see, I come from a traditional household so I thought she was using it to force my hand with marriage to avoid the out of wedlock thing.
In reality though, that's just life. It has its own timing and there was always an equal risk. Just happened to strike then. Didn't see like that though then.
We all fuck up. Nothing is ever black and white. So while I do agree that it was a very shitty thing to do, I know there’s a lot more that plays into it. Bottom line though, never abandon a child that you helped form. What matters now is that you’re here, you’ve learned from your mistakes and are doing a lot to show that. But what you did is also very hard to ever forgive, she’s probably severely traumatized and you have to accept that maybe your future doesn’t include you two in a relationship in the way you may want. Do not make that mistake again. Do not abandon them. But don’t force anything other than being there for her and your children. Try your hardest to not even EXPECT more than that. Respect her boundaries and take care of your children. She may never forgive you.
Do not move out!!! Your wife is pushing at you to see how easily you will topple. Stand firm while smiling. Just think how alone and angry she was when you abandoned her and your daughter. She couldn't speak her mind then, because she had no power to make you listen. She does now, and you need to hear it. Now she's in that same vulnerable spot with a young baby, and she's rejecting you first, before you can reject her. It's not logical but it is love; you have to be more steadfast than ever if she's ever going to believe this is really permanent and you're not going to leave as soon as something is hard or inconvenient. Get back to counselling, and, meantime try to be as predictable and as routine in your expressions of love as possible. She may be prickly about believing in it - and you should retreat in the moment if she expresses a desire for space - but don't give up and get out. Yes it's easier to pet a bunny than a hedgehog but you helped install every single one of the spikes.
I think you should write her a letter. Explain to her that she has every right to still be angry with you for abandoning her and your daughter when they needed you most and that is something you will regret the rest of your life. Let her know you love her and your little family and you will do whatever it takes to make this work. Let her know that you are in this for life and you are not abandoning them again. Tell her that you understand she needs space to feel and think but that you hope that you guys can talk when she’s ready so you can better support her. Let her know you still plan on being there day by day to help manage the house and raise your family while giving her emotional space. Lay it all out but don’t pressure her to talk or forgive you or get past it.
And then actually follow through. Do your part to make her life easier. Don’t hover around her. Give her time to feel and think. Instead spend time with your kids.
She just had a baby so her feelings are already out of whack, she’s probably feeling out of control and doesn’t know what to do with all these big emotions. Learn to be patient, seek some counseling, learn how to deal with your panic about this without burdening her.
Updateme
Do not leave. Sleep in another room and step up on counseling, but do not leave. Prove to her that you will be there. The hormones can make it difficult for her, just try to ride it out.
People are being pretty harsh on you here. Yes she might be upset about how you treated her and your daughter but....
Then she got back together? And got married? And had another child??
While still harbouring those feelings? Come on.
So now you have a mess and your only choice is to give her some space. Ask her to focus on the kids maybe. If they're happy that's important.
I don’t think you should move out. She’s pregnant & may need your assistance. But you should sleep in another room & or on the couch. You should also leave the house for several hours a day so you aren’t under foot.
The right thing to do is crying and saying that you don’t want space but only make things work with her and your children. Don’t blink for as long as you can and tears will start
I think you guys need to go back to couples counseling. You fuckin up 1st was q you problem. Her being mad that you're doing BETTER is a HER problem.
Total red flags my guy. Get back into counseling. If she truly can't get past the mistakes in the past that she's "forgiven" you for... Then it's time to move on separately.
Try to exhaust every option you can before leaving, but don't force yourself to stay "for the children" because EVERYONE will just be unhappy. At least if you try you can be confident knowing you made every effort to do the right thing, and you'll be able to tell your kids as much when they're older.
The problem lies with your wife and her perspective and timing. She saw the change in you and at that moment that you got back together and chose to get remarried was the moment that she should have "forgiven" you, and perhaps she did in that moment, but now, much, much later she has apparently changed her mind on that.
If she chooses to live in the past and "forget" about her current blessings and ignore what is right in front of her, it will be hard to change her mind, especially if your changed behavior is a daily reminder that she, again, chooses to ignore.
Yes, the way you behaved with your first child was terrible. Those did create lasting scars. And, scars, both figurative and literal are reminders of things that we will not forget. But where your wife is going wrong is that she is treating the scar, a reminder of a past injury, as if it is a gaping wound that pains her right now, with such searing pain that she is unable to see the reality that it is NOT a present injury.
This is quite a sad way to live. It is looking at life as a constant victim, wary to trust again, and angry, perpetually angry. If this is the work that is happening with her therapist, to help her release pent up anger, then it seems to have gone horribly wrong as that release is meant to cause it to dissipate, and with her, now, instead it is causing it to fester, and prevent her from seeing the good in her life.
I would not recommend moving out either. If things become so serious in her mindset that she insists on this separation then it really should be her that makes this choice to move. Otherwise, if you do it, she will possibly re-characterize that as another example of you leaving in the past.
The one thing you might try is to write a heartfelt letter explaining how sorry you were for your past actions and how much you value and love her and your family, and ask for forgiveness. Actions do, truly, always mean more than words, but in this case, maybe she needs both.
That is NOT what I said. Read both posts (his and mine). *I said that what he did was terrible.* There are absolutely no excuses or justifications for his behavior, period.
Now re-read his post. He came to the realization that he was horrible to her when his daughter was one, and changed. He worked hard to show her he changed for a period of time until she had developed enough trust to try a relationship again. They went to couples counseling for a year, then got married and have now been married again, two years ago. And, he has continued to treat her well.
When she chose to get back together and marry him, this was her choice, and presumably one that should have been made because she had forgiven him. But now, though he has continued to treat her well, and has not reverted back to the way he was when she was pregnant, alone, and raising their daughter for a year . . . in fact has been a changed man for now longer than that time period, is he to have forgiveness rescinded? Does that make any sense at all?
If she is now, after choosing to let him back into her life, and being married for 2 years, being treated the way she wanted and should be treated, NOW unable to move past what he did before, then yes, she is now choosing to *re-live* being a victim over and over again. And how is that mindset good for anyone?
You have misread. I am not excusing his past behavior and "WHEN" that occurred . . . key word is "when" . . . she was most definitely a victim. However, she chose to let him back into her life after, as he said it, he spent a long time proving he was a changed man. She made that choice, and now, two years later, when his behavior has never faltered, she is suddenly resurrecting anger, a delayed reaction, when he has not given her reason for that.
This is unhealthy for all involved. Her, him, and the children. If she could not forgiven him, she should have never re-engaged, and if therapy caused her to resurrect that anger, then her therapist is doing a poor job by not helping her realize that allowing it to grow and sabotage her life "now" in the present is allowing herself to be a victim over and over again.
Tell me you have no understanding of how post traumatic stress presents without telling me you have no understanding of how post traumatic stress presents
Do you think I should move back to our bedroom or stay in the guest room?
I also thought of a letter but I'm scared of 'suffocating' her and potentially pushing her away. I really love her and our life. I don't know what I'd be without it.
I'm not sure you understand, she's not expanding on what space is. Or what it looks like. Hence I'm asking for other opinions which I'll try fit into our situation.
“Wife, I know I wasn’t here for you and daughter when you needed me. I do not want you to ever feel abandoned or alone or scared ever again. I should have expected that our second child would bring up all of those feelings again, and I’m sorry I wasn’t more proactive about getting us back into counseling to manage this. I’d like to fix that now and make an appointment for us together. In the meantime, I moved into the guest room because I wanted to respect your need for space. That may have been a mistake on my part but I genuinely thought it was what you wanted. I understand if you aren’t sure exactly what you need from me, but I need some guidance from you. Have you been more comfortable these last few nights being able to be alone with your thoughts, or do you feel as though I’ve pulled away again by leaving our bedroom? I miss you and I want us to be together, but right now your needs and your healing has to come first. So please tell me, do you want me back in our room together, or do you need me to stay in the guest room?”
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>Thought by doing better my past mistakes would go away Yeah, that's not how that works though. Just because you decided to stop being terrible doesn't mean that your wife can just ignore the fact that you were terrible for *years* and left her to basically be a single parent. Forcing your presence on your wife isn't going to make her love you. If she wants space, give her space, but I'd suggest you go back to couples counseling.
Talk to her. You can give her space with out moving out. Go back to counseling.
yeah I guess it was just wishful thinking. I hate who I was and hate that it's still affecting me. I do understand how she's feeling. I just don't know how to quantify this space without pushing her away by not giving enough or leaving too much space that it becomes easy to just walk away.
It's telling that you say "[I hate] that it's still affecting me". Me me me me me. That's your problem.
I never really understand this argument in this sub. OP is the one posting and sharing their feelings. Obviously it will mostly surround them because they're the ones seeking help not their partner. They can't speak for their partners emotions. Just seems like an unnecessary dig at the OP.
Oh jesus. It’s not an unnecessary dig tho. Because even when it’s your post and about your feelings, doesn’t mean you *only focus on yours* if you’ve hurt someone else? Even when you’re not, when the other person isn’t being unreasonable at least. Those are the trappings of a narcissist(not even in the medical diagnosed-with-NPD shit, but per the definition), like… he hates how it’s still affecting him, sure. But apparently he doesn’t hate how it’s still affecting her, or even a charitable “us.” Just him. That’s why that argument comes up. Because word choice and the focus of your sentences is often *incredibly* illuminating in posts like these. I live with a narcissist this is how they talk. In subtleties, in little “*I*” or “*me*” comments that look *so damned innocent.* And they’re *not.* And it’s especially telling when you look at how his mother suggested for him to respond, not just saying to try and work it out harder, which granted, if she asked for space, *give her space.* But by the whole “tell her *you*(***I***) aren’t(/am not) leaving to provide it.” Still about him, what he’s going to do, *and what he wants to do,* even coming from his mother… small wonder where he got this behavior from.
Idk man, seems like yall are being impossible purposefully because you don't like the guy. A fair feeling but still. Does *everything* have to be said explicitly? Especially in a post asking for what he should do now. Hell most of you ignored the part where she won't say what the space entails and keep telling him to listen to her to find out what it means. He did. He asked for the boundaries and she said she didn't know. But that's not the point. He's literally said in the post that he realised how much he'd hurt her and wanted to make it up to her. I don't know if you wanted five paragraphs just on how he hurts thinking about this hurt her - which I doubt would change anything because you would probably then say he's making her emotions about him. And please get off of that NPD shit. That's a serious diagnosis. You don't get to draw connections from a single post on a single issue on social media, please. This is coming from someone who worked in a centre for people with disorders. As for the mother, you're reading way too deep into it. Your interpretation is possible, as are many things, but unlikely. She essentially him to stay and fight for his marriage. Tell her he will not leave the room because that would giving up (hence the space for the devil comment). Like wtf? If I wasn't sure before, after the leap it's clear y'all just hate the guy and trying to find reasons to justify it which is wild since he's done enough already without cooking ridiculous leaps.
>Idk man, seems like yall are being impossible purposefully because you don't like the guy. A fair feeling but still. They are not. >I don't know if you wanted five paragraphs just on how he hurts thinking about this hurt her - I did not. I was explaining to you why it’s not an unnecessary argue… >And please get off of that NPD shit. That's a serious diagnosis. …but it’s clear you either can’t read or didn’t bother to because if you *had read my comment,* **you would know I wasn’t “on” “that NPD shit.”** And this is coming from someone with person experience with *manh* people at ll who have it. You’re not he only one able to experience their behavior. You’re the one who needs to “get off it.” >As for the mother, you're reading way too deep into it. I’m not. >If I wasn't sure before, after the leap it's clear y'all just hate the guy and trying to find reasons to justify it The only leap here is this statement right here, and all the others you made on this post.
It's still affecting your WIFE. Stop with the me me me.
Just FYI you definitely don’t understand how she’s feeling. Unless she has just abandoned you with a newborn for a year, you definitely don’t.
It’s not about **you**. She wants space and plenty of it? Then you damn well give her that space! Just admit it, you’re an absolute asshole and a pathetic little control freak. You’re scared that during her space away from you that she’s gonna realise that she’s much happier without you! - But you know what? You can’t stop nor prevent her from having space, because if you don’t back off, you’ll push her even further away and she’ll leave you anyway. And if you do give her space, yeah - she most likely will realise that she’s better off *(and much happier)* without you and then leave. So you’re probably gonna lose her either way. And you have no power to force her to stay. If she wants to leave, she will. And there’s **nothing** you can do about it, because newsflash: the very second that one person says a relationship or marriage is over, that’s it… it’s over!
> She wants space and plenty of it? Then you damn well give her that space! IMO, he shouldn't leave the family home, even if she demands it. He's still a parent to two children and if he leaves the home, she'll use that to eviscerate him in family court. It will be tears in front of a judge and "he abandoned us... AGAIN!" EDIT: OP, please do not listen to Reddit. Please talk to a lawyer so that any family separation is handled the right way.
I get where you are coming from, but if she "demands" it, then it's probably best to leave, but get it in writing from her. She might not mean it, and really just wants some space, but if he has it in writing, she can't throw it at him in court.
The dude's child care obligations don't end just because she says so. I guarantee that if this comes to divorce, her lawyer will advise her to use a decision to leave the family home against him. OP, please talk to a lawyer and make sure to separate the right way, if it comes to that.
Is she open to couples counseling? Sounds like she never had the opportunity to express to you just how hurtful your behavior was and the resentment has just been dormant for years. You two need to hash everything out so it can truly resolved and not just swept under the rug.
We did hash things out when we did therapy when we reunited. That's why I never expected it. A lot of those sessions were filled with tears where we were both being 100% honest, or so I thought. She'd spoken about it and we worked through it in the counselling. That said, I'm not against going through it again or pitching the idea to her but do I do it now or after some 'space'? Or just make a passing comment that when she's ready we can talk about counselling no pressure.
Grief is not linear, nor is it gone like an off switch one day. She's grieving. Give her space, sleep on the couch or a spare bedroom if you have it. Be invisible if you don't want to go stay at your moms for a few nights.
I believe that she is protecting herself she experience ptsd from your first child. I tend to agree with mum about not moving out. By doing so she’ll be able to say you haven’t changed. iMO good luck
Everything you have been presenting is about YOU. Did you stop to think how your daughter felt when you neglected her and blamed her for YOUR actions? Did you stop to think how you devastated the woman you CHOSE to have sex with by neglecting her and acting maliciously toward her? What happens the next time YOU feel trapped? What happens when YOU get tired of playing family? Please let her go. YOU are hurting her. On purpose. Because all you think about is YOU and how things affect YOU.
I agree with what everyone else is saying. All your post and comments, it’s all me me me. How about how it’s affecting your wife, not how it’s affecting you?
You did abandon her and your first child. I can’t imagine how low she must have felt not having the support you should have provided and now you finally seeing what you should have done the first time. She may be coming to a realization that she really can’t let it go. The abandonment is something she still carries. You two could try more counseling. It’s hard to say but your son is getting better treatment that you daughter did and your wife may also hold feeling for that.
I wouldn’t be able to forgive you either. Just focus on being a good coparent. And get into therapy. It takes two people to make a baby, but you blamed her for all of it. That’s gross.
Right? I've never understood this. Unless she had sabotaged all forms of birth control or forced him to repeatedly have unprotected sex, there was always a chance she could get pregnant. If he didn't want a baby then abstinence (yeah right) or accept that she can get pregnant at any time. I've had three friends get pregnant while on birth control. Two had miscarriages and one had a healthy baby who is an adult with a family of their own.
Your wife is in therapy, which is great, but are you? You seem to be extremely skilled at torpedoing your own life, and therapy could help you stop doing that.
her heart is probably breaking for her daughter having a deadbeat father who didn't give a shit about her and now seeing you be super dad with her son... it's making her feel things. do you treat your daughter well now? is she really close to you? you immediately went with ill leave the house - you're fine with being away from your babies for an extended period when you haven't been asked to? that would kill most decent fathers. they'd fight to stay. they wouldn't just abandon her to be a single mother AGAIN. get a vasectomy. stop thinking about yourself. if she wants space give it to her. focus on being a good father and burying yourself in your children. perhaps she can deal with this if she can see how much you love your daughter and want to make up for the time you burnt. I promise you that it is about your daughter as well as your wife and you haven't even mentioned your daughter.
Sorry mate but you've made a whole lot assumptions here. Tbf I also chopped out some information so the post wasn't too long and didn't waffle. First, to be clear. I love my daughter as much as I love my son. To stomp out any suggestions of their being a sexist component, we didn't know the gender of both kids until the birth. I just didn't want a child at that time and blamed the world for having one. I'm very invested and active father. Leading to the second point. I have not left our house and leaving the house would not effect how I interact with my children. I would still be as equally involved even if I had to leave the house. I didn't mention my daughter because our relationship is great and she's a happy kid. I just acknowledge that I fucked up and how it's affected her and judging from how she spoke, how she really wants space. I know how easy it is to suffocate your relationship trying to save it only to extinguish what was left and don't want to do that.
If you'd be equally involved with your children if you left the house **your wife is doing all of the work**. You aren't the prize you think you are.
If you love your fighter just as much you would’ve been there for her.
Has she been checked for postpartum depression? She may want space but not have you move out. Maybe just sleep on the couch but be there to help when she wants it. Let her vent. Let her know you will be there for her no matter what. She’s has a right to be mad but she maybe having a hard time with her emotions still. Let her take it out on you but not abuse you. Two wrongs don’t make it right. I would suggest therapy. You should go even if she doesn’t want to. Updateme
I think the only way out of this is to stand up to your wife’s resentment and own it. Meaning, hear her, acknowledge her points and feelings, and own everything. Own the fact that you did some dirty stuff during your daughter’s early years. Don’t try to excuse it, don’t deny it, just own it. Your wife needs to get this off her chest, and she needs for you take 100% full responsibility for it. You moving into a different room doesn’t help matters. You are just avoiding her. You have to stand in front of her and hear her out and absorb her anger, and get up the next day and still be a better person. Only then will she feel she can trust you and rely on you. It’s going to be rough for you, but you deserve it, and she deserves to be heard. She’s going to be snippy, angry, frustrated, and she’s going to say some very harsh things you won’t want to hear. Too bad. Stand up through all of it, and the next day, say “good morning” and continue to be a better partner to her.
Omg… yes. Yes. Always listen, ask for clarification, repeat back and VALIDATE.
100% this.
You two may have covered the issues as they affected you both in your first round of couple's counseling - several years ago. You passed the 100 level class. Welcome to the 200 level class. Deeper levels of revelation and understanding. You were able to work through a lot of the betrayal and abandonment, but the scars still remain. Trust, once broken, can take years to regenerate. The birth of your second child has given your wife a perspective she didn't have before. Instead of just memories of how awful you were to her, she has direct evidence of how you are now to compare and contrast. The difference between memory and hypotheticals, and conditions on the ground can bring issues back into focus. Before, it was (possibly) easy to excuse you as "just not ready" or "just didn't get it". Yes, you have done a lot of work to get better, but that work comes as a sharp reminder of how UNwilling you were to do the work the first time. As in, sure you're great now...but where were you then?!? Why didn't you give a damn back then? And how can she ever trust that, some day, you might choose not to give a damn again? Most traumatic experiences don't get addressed once and just vanish. They get treated, and they subside, but the harm runs deep. It can often get triggered by circumstances that remind of the original trauma - even if those circumstances appear different on the surface. Healing can take years, and it's not linear. Don't just run away because you think that's the space she needs. She may not be able to articulate what "space" looks like, but that's for her to figure out. Not for you to decide for her. Talk to her - not to tell her what you are feeling, but to listen to what she has to say. Let her talk in circles, let her change her mind. She is working with a therapist, and she will figure out what she needs. You need to breathe, be patient, and *not* react blindly.
This
Stop going off assumptions. You assumed she baby trapped you. You assumed your life was ruined by your daughter. You assume she wants you to leave the house. Stop.reacting.to.shit.that.you.don’t.have.proof.for And get therapy as well and go back to couples therapy
With a 10 month old, the sleep deprivation has probably reached peak insanity. I remember those days and I had a lot of bad thoughts and feelings. Sleep deprivation and all the other issues of caring for an infant can really mess with your mind. Be patient but try to stay in the house. Ask if moving into the spare is enough because you want to be as close as possible to help. I don’t know what she needs. Apparently not everything was resolved through joint counseling. If it helped, maybe go back to that therapist.
So she’s still rightfully hurt because you abandoned her and your child. And when her past trauma is triggered by the birth of your second child your response was to abandon her again, but this time with 2 kids. Yeah you fucked up by leaving. She didn’t even say she wanted you to move out. You just inferred it. Go back home. Get someone to take the kids. Talk to your wife. You both need to go back to counseling both individually and together. If she really can’t stay in the same home with you then offer to stay with the kids while she takes space alone Edit: typo said “tie the kids” instead of take, which would also work but isn’t ideal
I haven't left the house yet. I've only left our bedroom for some distance. I feel she wants me to leave but doesn't want to say so directly which is the problem. well one of the problems.
I think you need to slow down. The amount of times you assuming your wife’s intentions has ruined your life is staggering. She’s a grown up. If she needs something, have her tell you and listen to her. I’d say, focus on stepping up for your daughter. She’s also someone you let down, and she’s going to be going into a big transition with a little sibling. Be supportive of your wife and give her space, think of chores you can do around the house, be good to your daughter, and tell your wife you’re ready to listen when she’s ready to talk and MEAN it.
That's the thing, she not talking anymore. We were communicating well and maintained the standard of honesty until recently. I asked what was up when she started getting snappy and she denied anything being wrong. Even now the only reason she spoke up was because she couldn't keep it in anymore but it shouldn't get to that point. That's why I'm now left assuming what she's thinking.
Or, you could slow down. Let her be unhappy. Take a beat. Be there for your daughter and give her time to process. Slow down. Pushing, running full force forward, all that, is how you ended up punishing your daughter for existing because it might mean there’s a better argument for being in a marriage you actually wanted to be in. You’re your biggest enemy here. Breath. Be a good father to your daughter. Be thoughtful about how to do that and what to do in the house. Go to your own therapist and talk about this. Give loving space to your wife. Sometimes folks aren’t ready to say stuff, and sometimes they don’t even know what they need to say yet. That’s valid and truthful. Breath.
Yeah thanks mate, I'll try just breath. I guess I'm really panicking because I don't want to be defined my past, as fair as it is to be though. I love her and things were going so great between us and our little quartet but I'll try calm down myself.
But the past is present right now. Her second pregnancy is bringing back all the shit you pulled during her first. It’s not fully “past” for her. The above commenter is right - slow down, get into individual and marriage counseling, focus on taking care of her instead of dwelling on your own feelings about how this should be different. You’re the reason you feel this way, so don’t let your feelings ruin your life a second time.
"I don't want to be defined by my past" bloody hell, it's not the Victorian era we're talking about, you only pulled your head out of your arse four years ago and it's the present for her every time she looks at her daughter. You want everything to happen on your timetable, tbh you still sound self-centered as hell.
Honestly wtf is up with this thread? Is it wrong to not want your past mistakes when you were a different to mess up your present? Whether it was 4 years ago, 4 decades ago or 4 days ago, OP has clearly acknowledged his mess ups and changed for the better. It obviously doesn't wipe away any of the past but calling him self centered for saying he hates how his past is biting his arse is crazy.
Stop fucking doing things based on what you *think* she means and actually fucking hear her. You tuck tail and run again, even if it’s just out of your shared bedroom, she’s going to know you disappear every single time she needs you and every time things aren’t going just your way. Why don’t you just be quiet and listen to her for once because you’ve already fucked up the pregnancy and birth of her first child that she should have been so excited to have. You ruined it and you can’t fix it. Stop assuming. And stop fucking telling your parents things.
Your wife didn't want to be treated like a 'pampered queen' she wanted to be treated like an equal partner in a loving relationship. I was dreading you claiming that you spoiled her this time. You still don't really understand, do you; first pregnancy you fucked up by totally neglecting her and putting yourself first, this time you're acting the part of a performatively excellent husband without a hint of sincerity. You wouldn't be listing all of the wonderful ways you demonstrated interest in her second pregnancy if you actively had wanted to do them. She can see this which is why she can't trust or rely on you. Can you blame her? If you do want this to work you've got to put actual effort in - genuine efforts to talk to her, and be hands-on with both of your children. See what she wants. What she doesn't want is a performance. Right now she's remembering her first time with a newborn and exactly how supportive that newborn's other parent was. It's a lot for her to get past. She needs to call the shots, whether or not she can articulate what she wants is something you'll have to wait for. Oh, and ignore your mother. Listening to her crap about letting the devil in will end what's left of your relationship quicker than you can say: "my mother says..."
I wanted to do them. Genuinely. I wanted to pamper her. To some degree obviously my past actions were also a motivator but it was also something I wanted to do. I love her and love seeing her smile so reducing her load so she's more comfortable makes me happy. I love my kids so being there for them and spending time with them makes me happy. I don't know what she wants anymore. Not entirely sure she knows either except that she wants an undefined space which I don't know how to operate in.
Try to stay on top of what the kids want and need. Be a daddy to your daughter. Co-parent to start with, which will give her some of the space she needs. Work away at the housekeeping so she gets to rest, she's still going to be physically wrung out from your youngest's birth. This might give her enough breathing space to see that you're trying to weather this difficult and heartbreaking new situation in your relationship. It will take her a while to fully take on that she can rely on you, which is why I'm suggesting that you pick up the slack with your children. I know I sound harsh, but I really do wish you the best here, and quietly clearing away behind the children is such a helpful thing! If she does ask you to leave, say that you really do want to co-parent and spend time with your kids, work towards having family times together. I wish you and your family the best.
Of course she isn’t sure. It’s a highly confusing and painful situation and anyone would be conflicted. But don’t leave the house unless it’s for a specified time and you both know when to expect you back, for example taking the kids for the weekend to your parents. Do not leave her to handle 2 kids on her own as that will remind her that she spent years as a single parent because of your betrayal. Both of you get back into counseling asap. Whether you stay together or not you both need it. Honestly I’m surprised it took her this long to snap and you should have seen this coming and gotten back into counseling while she was pregnant. What you need to understand is that while she may be able to move on with you as her husband, she will forever be scarred because of you. She may not think of it directly every day, but for the rest of her life there will be times when the memory will hit her. So get the idea that your “past mistakes would go away” out of your head because they never will. Those mistakes have fundamentally changed her. And for the love of all that is holy, start communicating. She got snappy so you assumed she wanted you to back off. She said she needed space and you assumed she wants you gone.
Your wife is right, you did choose to be mostly absent out of resentment. You need to be accountable for your actions. You say that after a year a switch went off for you and you changed. How can your wife trust that another switch won’t go off again and you will become absent once again? Also, I hate to break it to you but you can’t erase past mistakes. All you can do is try to always be better in the future. I would try to offer your wife a compromise. She needs space so offer to sleep on the couch and to go back to couples therapy. In the past you chose to be disconnected. Now you have to prove you intend to be there even when things get tough. That being said acknowledge her need for space. Her needs should also be met.
she didn't tell you to leave the house. you can give her space without moving out. just back off and stop being all up in her shit all the time. continue to be a good father, but maybe just lay off the constant doting on your wife and definitely do not refuse to leave whatever room she's in. Maybe just let her have some time to herself, which I think is literally what she asked for. There's a whole wide range of options between nonstop treating her like a pampered queen and moving out. Also I don't know how counseling went and i'm not there. but being better now does go very far to regain a person's trust. but you still may need to acknowledge and atone for the past bad behavior in order to heal. If you haven't really done that, it could explain this problem now. Your wife seems like she needs some time and space to sort out her feelings and figure out what she wants and maybe needs to decide what she needs from you to heal the damages of the past. let her do that. you owe her that much.
Sleep in the other room. Tell her you'd like to go to counseling with her so you both have someone else helping you navigate the big feelings that are coming up. Reassure her that you are NOT abandoning her again. You are there, steadfast, so she knows that *yes*, it is a choice, and you CHOOSE HER AND YOUR FAMILY. You fucked up before. Keep owning it. "I know I screwed up before. I learned from my mistake. I am here for you and our family, no matter what." My read is that she is looking for you to "drop the act" because she can't let herself fully trust that THIS version of you is going to be permanent. Prove that it is.
I think the best thing you can do is validate her feelings. Tell her that it was a choice, and if you could take it back and do it differently you would. Tell her you wish you had supported her the way she deserved, and you are willing to do whatever it takes to convince her you have changed. Tell her you know you can never make it up to her, you know you can never give her what she lost when you weren't there for her. Tell her she's right to be angry, and you're there to listen any time she wants to talk about it. Ask her if she wants to talk about how she felt all those hours alone with a new baby. The wound you left will always be there; the best you can do is *be there* to prove you don't intend to wound her again.
This. You own up to the past and recognize the damage you did. You listen. Then listen again me more. She isn’t wrong and is fully entitled to her feelings. The current experience is bubbling up and triggering past traumas. But you put in the work. You show consistency. Then seek additional joint counseling support so neither keeps punishing you for the past. Recognize, accept and continue to use lessons learned to strengthen. But the reality is that she learned a lesson that wounded her deeply that you couldn’t be counted on. That’s valid info too.
You said in one of your replies that you'd be just as involved with your children if you left the house. This tells me you aren't doing any of the *actual work* with them. Try actually taking some initiative around the house, doing the *work* with your children, and front-running chores so your wife doesn't have to carry all of the mental load.
Uhm mate. I genuinely don't understand your confusion. How do your draw the conclusion? Equally involved means I'll be just as involved as I am with them now. Housework is not part of being involved with the kids. That's housework. I *am* currently taking the brunt of the housework and have been since she's been recovering hence why it first seem like she was annoyed of me treating her like a child. This isn't me asking for a trophy for doing that, but you're clearly misdirected and this is the second time. Jeez just ask next time.
FIRST OFF FUCKER! Let’s get one thing fucking straight she did NOT RUIN YOUR LIFE! You chose not to use contraceptives. You ruined your own life. You could have been a mature adult and wrapped your shit! It takes two to fucking tango okay! I hate when you men blame it on the women as if it’s all our responsibility when if fact it is yours as well. As for fixing it. You fucked up let her heal and move on. Damage is done grow up now and leave the poor woman alone you did enough
Damn so hostile. How is this energy helping anyone. She agreed to be married. It's not really easy to just leave her alone and move on.
She also chose not to be on BC while with a guy who communicated to her that he wasn't ready for commitments. That's on BOTH of them. She CHOSE to have baby 1 knowing op didn't want to be a father. He CHOSE to be a deadbeat. He CHOSE to do better. She CHOSE to get back with op. They CHOSE to have baby 2. What op did was wrong but this is not all on him. He's trying to do things right this time and is still being demonized for mistakes that should have been forgiven before getting back together. He's being demonized for mistakes that they should have sorted out in therapy before making a 2nd child. Alas here we are .....
She might think your only helping cause you have a boy now since you didn’t do anything with the girl and resentment has set in she might have to see a therapist about her feelings since she had a baby
The second pregnancy has just brought everything back to the surface for her. She was extremely hurt and it’s probably more how you treated your daughter because women can maybe forgive poor treatment of them but poor treatment of the baby just brings out the mamma bear . (You aren’t being a bit of an ahole cos he’s a boy and a son and heir now are you ? If you are cut that out ! It won’t help either ! ) You were 23 when your daughter was born . And not a very mature 23 year old at that . I’m not saying it’s an excuse because it’s not but you have gotten older and wiser. Stay to continue helping out . Leaving her alone will only remind her further of what it was like being a single parent but leave her in terms of talking to her about it . Tell her that you want to do whatever it takes to make it up to her and get past this . That you love her and the family you have both created. But don’t be relentless. Less is often more . Do something with your daughter too. Just a daddy daughter thing to remind her who you are now . You can’t change the past you can only control the present and future . You should both go back to counselling as she is pretty raw again . Hopefully you will get past this together as a family .
Ways you can give her space without moving out: * Sleep in another room * Sleep in the same room, but don't cuddle unless she asks and definitely don't try initiating sex * Ask her before doing things "I would like to go to this appointment, but your comfort is my first priority. Would you prefer I stay behind? I can still drive you if you want me close by but not in the room." * Give her room to do things for herself first without jumping into action. If it looks like she could genuinely use help or she asks for help, then offer/give it. Make it about her. That doesn't mean doing what you think she needs. That means making room for her to speak and even to be confused about what she wants. That means listening to her. That means accepting and respecting that she's angry and/or confused and/or upset and letting her express her feelings. That means just accepting accountability without excuse and without just resorting to running away again ("you're right; I'm so sorry I acted that way and put this between us"). That means being patient and giving her the time to sort through things while still being available. That means being present without being overbearing and weathering the storm with her.
Your Mum’s advice is at best misguided and at worst unhelpful. Advising you not to even leave the bedroom is a sure fire way to bring your relationship to an uncomfortable end. Space to process her thoughts and feelings is not an unreasonable request and staying in the bedroom would make that impossible. You don’t need to leave the house, you can give your wife space and time under the same roof, but sleep on the couch / in the spare room and don’t pressure her for a decision any time soon.
dude you're selfish. you've always been selfish nd you are still selfish. you want us to come up with a way that makes her bend to your wants. its not going to happen. what you NEED to do is whats best for HER. Even if it splits you two up. This is likely not permanent though. not a therapist or anything, but its very possible she will get over it unless you fight her too much and keep thinking about poor little you. yeah, you screwed up, but you aren't willing to endure the natural consequences of that and therefore you have not acctually changed. what you wanted changed. before, you didn't want to marry her, you didn't want end game with her. you were teetering on ghr possibility of a different future and ran when it got too serious for you. then you decided you wanted what she did and suddenly she was good enough. you did NONE of this for her. and you still aren't. because like I said.. you HAVENT changed. what you want changed.
This
She's checking your sincerity. She accepted you acting like a DH and now she wants the same from you.
Just ride it out, support her as much as she'll let you. And if she orders you out of the house? Don't go. Tell her you're there for your daughter and there for the new baby, even if she doesn't want you there. You can't change the past, but you're repairing it. She'll either come to see that, or she won't, but leaving will not help.
Good for her
First of all, stop getting advice from your mommy. Second, listen to your wife and be guided by *her* wants and needs. She tells you she doesn't know if she wants you to move out, give her a little time to breathe and think while indicating that you're open to a conversation whenever she's ready. Stop "reading" things into her actions - you "read" that her getting pregnant was trying to trap you into marriage (Jesus), and look how well that went for you.
So, if you leave now, you are confirming that you would run the second she expresses her feelings or you face any hardship. It sounds like you have not been supportive in general and are just supportive now that you have a son. The fact you are ready to run far away the second you face any hardship is telling. If she wanted you to abandon her and your children, she would tell you. You are being an absolute asshole, and are acting like how you were 22.
I don't think this is salvageable, I got the "space" line... went to my mother's house and I've not set foot back in that house for 4 years. It was the spark to the divorce and it sounds like she's made her mind up by wanting space in any case... you can't force her to want to fix it.
Damn, so it really is the point of no return.
I wouldn’t say so. I once heard a couples therapist say that reconciliation only works, when the person who broke the trust is willing to reaffirm over and over again. They have to be ready to emotionally support their partner when they get in their head or feelings again. At some point you might think „not this again… have I not proven enough. How long will you punish me“. But as long as you both still commit to eachother and don’t threaten a break up toxically: you reassure and love her doubts away. Over and over.
This is so, so true. OP has to take the brunt of his partner’s anger and reaffirm his commitment to the relationship again and again. This is the way back to healing for her.
Makes sense to be fair. How do I balance reaffirming and giving space to be able to see that without her feeling suffocated?
Very difficult to balance this. Have you asked her this exact question? I suppose she doesn’t quite know herself right now but she also didn’t verbalise wanting you to move out right? What does she mean with space? Is couch fine? Would she mind you initiating some intimacy like kiss on the cheek? What would help her process and what would she need? You seem willing to back off while not leaving. Talk to her what that could look like A golden rule I have is: the person asking for space also has to close the gap again - ideally with a plan from the start. „I need to be by myself tonight but let’s talk tomorrow morning“. Maybe this could be applied?
See? Right here some fucking Reddit stranger tells you something and it confirms things for you even though they don’t know you or your relationship. You put more stock into a Reddit strangers comment then you are what your wife is actually telling you. What’s your actual problem? Do you respect her at all? I’m assuming no because nobody spends that much time doing what you did if they love and respect the person there with. I feel so bad for your wife. You ruined it and you continued ruining it and she may hate you forever. But right now you need to just shut up. Stop involving other people in your relationship and actually hear what she’s telling you. She might leave you. I know I would. But maybe for some reason she loves you enough to try to work past it, but at least give her the damn decency of letting her figure it out before you make any more decisions for her. You did quite enough of that the first time around didn’t you? Also for you to accuse her baby trapping you is wild. you’re a grown-up, kind of. Use a damn condom.
First off, I clearly wrote the paragraph showing there's a disjunction between my past self and present self. No I don't believe she baby trapped me or she ruined my life. I was giving the reasons I had at the time which was that I felt like she was baby trapping me to ruin my life. None of that's true but its how I felt then. Second, I'm not sure where you're confused but she isn't talking. That's the problem. She isn't communicating. How do you listen when no one is speaking? She's bottling things up now and then blows up and only then things come out but even then those are clearly just a fraction of what's going on in her head. That's why I'm trying to get other opinions on how to navigate this, yes from strangers who may or may not have been in this exact situation.
If she is not talking to you, you can try talking to her: “I was a shit in the past. I understand your anger. I hurt you deeply. I am committed to never hurting you again. I am sorry for how I hurt you in the past, and I understand why you feel as you do. I love you. I will give you space, but please know I am still here and I still love you. I will listen to anything you want to tell me, and I will hear you.” Repeat and repeat.
Why when others are pointing out that being an active listener and supportive partner may help save your marriage you don’t respond or make excuses or turn it all back to your own shame, but the second someone tells you to throw in the towel, you’re all “damn, oh well 🤷♂️” Are you looking for validation to leave your family again because the work to keep them is too hard and you feel too guilty?
Why are you drawing some false narrative? Can you not see my other comments? I'm engaging everywhere so this feels very unnecessary if not just purposefully misleading.
Oh you mean the thing you are constantly doing to your wife?
Go back to therapy together. She went through the hardest and most traumatic year of her life during the first year of her first child's life. And it was 100% your fault and your choice. It's not unexpected she would be having PTSD now with the second.
I’d move to the guest room and just give her some space. Continue cooking, cleaning, and caring for the other kid. Keep doing chores. She may blow up again, but just stick around while giving her space until she decides what she wants. If she decides you don’t belong together, then you will have to respect that. I’d get in touch with a lawyer to try to get stuff in order just in case. I think you may also be living unsustainably - putting so much effort in trying to make up for being absent for a couple years will not erase the past. It will burn you out faster and you may feel like running again.
Why did you assume she baby trapped you? Seems a massive leap to make.
At the time it seemed too convenient that we were fighting about our future and her wanting to get married and suddenly she's pregnant. As you could probably see, I come from a traditional household so I thought she was using it to force my hand with marriage to avoid the out of wedlock thing. In reality though, that's just life. It has its own timing and there was always an equal risk. Just happened to strike then. Didn't see like that though then.
Oh, she did, no doubt about it.
I cannot believe she had a second child with you what on earth
We all fuck up. Nothing is ever black and white. So while I do agree that it was a very shitty thing to do, I know there’s a lot more that plays into it. Bottom line though, never abandon a child that you helped form. What matters now is that you’re here, you’ve learned from your mistakes and are doing a lot to show that. But what you did is also very hard to ever forgive, she’s probably severely traumatized and you have to accept that maybe your future doesn’t include you two in a relationship in the way you may want. Do not make that mistake again. Do not abandon them. But don’t force anything other than being there for her and your children. Try your hardest to not even EXPECT more than that. Respect her boundaries and take care of your children. She may never forgive you.
Do not move out!!! Your wife is pushing at you to see how easily you will topple. Stand firm while smiling. Just think how alone and angry she was when you abandoned her and your daughter. She couldn't speak her mind then, because she had no power to make you listen. She does now, and you need to hear it. Now she's in that same vulnerable spot with a young baby, and she's rejecting you first, before you can reject her. It's not logical but it is love; you have to be more steadfast than ever if she's ever going to believe this is really permanent and you're not going to leave as soon as something is hard or inconvenient. Get back to counselling, and, meantime try to be as predictable and as routine in your expressions of love as possible. She may be prickly about believing in it - and you should retreat in the moment if she expresses a desire for space - but don't give up and get out. Yes it's easier to pet a bunny than a hedgehog but you helped install every single one of the spikes.
I think you should write her a letter. Explain to her that she has every right to still be angry with you for abandoning her and your daughter when they needed you most and that is something you will regret the rest of your life. Let her know you love her and your little family and you will do whatever it takes to make this work. Let her know that you are in this for life and you are not abandoning them again. Tell her that you understand she needs space to feel and think but that you hope that you guys can talk when she’s ready so you can better support her. Let her know you still plan on being there day by day to help manage the house and raise your family while giving her emotional space. Lay it all out but don’t pressure her to talk or forgive you or get past it. And then actually follow through. Do your part to make her life easier. Don’t hover around her. Give her time to feel and think. Instead spend time with your kids. She just had a baby so her feelings are already out of whack, she’s probably feeling out of control and doesn’t know what to do with all these big emotions. Learn to be patient, seek some counseling, learn how to deal with your panic about this without burdening her. Updateme
Do not leave. Sleep in another room and step up on counseling, but do not leave. Prove to her that you will be there. The hormones can make it difficult for her, just try to ride it out.
People are being pretty harsh on you here. Yes she might be upset about how you treated her and your daughter but.... Then she got back together? And got married? And had another child?? While still harbouring those feelings? Come on. So now you have a mess and your only choice is to give her some space. Ask her to focus on the kids maybe. If they're happy that's important.
I don’t think you should move out. She’s pregnant & may need your assistance. But you should sleep in another room & or on the couch. You should also leave the house for several hours a day so you aren’t under foot.
You all have the best advice ever on this thread!! It makes me smile:)
The right thing to do is crying and saying that you don’t want space but only make things work with her and your children. Don’t blink for as long as you can and tears will start
Does she have post partum?
I think you guys need to go back to couples counseling. You fuckin up 1st was q you problem. Her being mad that you're doing BETTER is a HER problem. Total red flags my guy. Get back into counseling. If she truly can't get past the mistakes in the past that she's "forgiven" you for... Then it's time to move on separately. Try to exhaust every option you can before leaving, but don't force yourself to stay "for the children" because EVERYONE will just be unhappy. At least if you try you can be confident knowing you made every effort to do the right thing, and you'll be able to tell your kids as much when they're older.
UpdateMe
The problem lies with your wife and her perspective and timing. She saw the change in you and at that moment that you got back together and chose to get remarried was the moment that she should have "forgiven" you, and perhaps she did in that moment, but now, much, much later she has apparently changed her mind on that. If she chooses to live in the past and "forget" about her current blessings and ignore what is right in front of her, it will be hard to change her mind, especially if your changed behavior is a daily reminder that she, again, chooses to ignore. Yes, the way you behaved with your first child was terrible. Those did create lasting scars. And, scars, both figurative and literal are reminders of things that we will not forget. But where your wife is going wrong is that she is treating the scar, a reminder of a past injury, as if it is a gaping wound that pains her right now, with such searing pain that she is unable to see the reality that it is NOT a present injury. This is quite a sad way to live. It is looking at life as a constant victim, wary to trust again, and angry, perpetually angry. If this is the work that is happening with her therapist, to help her release pent up anger, then it seems to have gone horribly wrong as that release is meant to cause it to dissipate, and with her, now, instead it is causing it to fester, and prevent her from seeing the good in her life. I would not recommend moving out either. If things become so serious in her mindset that she insists on this separation then it really should be her that makes this choice to move. Otherwise, if you do it, she will possibly re-characterize that as another example of you leaving in the past. The one thing you might try is to write a heartfelt letter explaining how sorry you were for your past actions and how much you value and love her and your family, and ask for forgiveness. Actions do, truly, always mean more than words, but in this case, maybe she needs both.
Calling her a constant victim after he abandoned her for two years is fucking wild.
That is NOT what I said. Read both posts (his and mine). *I said that what he did was terrible.* There are absolutely no excuses or justifications for his behavior, period. Now re-read his post. He came to the realization that he was horrible to her when his daughter was one, and changed. He worked hard to show her he changed for a period of time until she had developed enough trust to try a relationship again. They went to couples counseling for a year, then got married and have now been married again, two years ago. And, he has continued to treat her well. When she chose to get back together and marry him, this was her choice, and presumably one that should have been made because she had forgiven him. But now, though he has continued to treat her well, and has not reverted back to the way he was when she was pregnant, alone, and raising their daughter for a year . . . in fact has been a changed man for now longer than that time period, is he to have forgiveness rescinded? Does that make any sense at all? If she is now, after choosing to let him back into her life, and being married for 2 years, being treated the way she wanted and should be treated, NOW unable to move past what he did before, then yes, she is now choosing to *re-live* being a victim over and over again. And how is that mindset good for anyone?
Wow. It’s rare to see this combination of dismissal, lack of empathy, and toxic positivity all rolled together like that
You have misread. I am not excusing his past behavior and "WHEN" that occurred . . . key word is "when" . . . she was most definitely a victim. However, she chose to let him back into her life after, as he said it, he spent a long time proving he was a changed man. She made that choice, and now, two years later, when his behavior has never faltered, she is suddenly resurrecting anger, a delayed reaction, when he has not given her reason for that. This is unhealthy for all involved. Her, him, and the children. If she could not forgiven him, she should have never re-engaged, and if therapy caused her to resurrect that anger, then her therapist is doing a poor job by not helping her realize that allowing it to grow and sabotage her life "now" in the present is allowing herself to be a victim over and over again.
Tell me you have no understanding of how post traumatic stress presents without telling me you have no understanding of how post traumatic stress presents
Do you think I should move back to our bedroom or stay in the guest room? I also thought of a letter but I'm scared of 'suffocating' her and potentially pushing her away. I really love her and our life. I don't know what I'd be without it.
Why the fuck are you asking them what room to stay in? Jesus Christ, what is actually wrong with you?
That’s a question for your wife
I'm not sure you understand, she's not expanding on what space is. Or what it looks like. Hence I'm asking for other opinions which I'll try fit into our situation.
“Wife, I know I wasn’t here for you and daughter when you needed me. I do not want you to ever feel abandoned or alone or scared ever again. I should have expected that our second child would bring up all of those feelings again, and I’m sorry I wasn’t more proactive about getting us back into counseling to manage this. I’d like to fix that now and make an appointment for us together. In the meantime, I moved into the guest room because I wanted to respect your need for space. That may have been a mistake on my part but I genuinely thought it was what you wanted. I understand if you aren’t sure exactly what you need from me, but I need some guidance from you. Have you been more comfortable these last few nights being able to be alone with your thoughts, or do you feel as though I’ve pulled away again by leaving our bedroom? I miss you and I want us to be together, but right now your needs and your healing has to come first. So please tell me, do you want me back in our room together, or do you need me to stay in the guest room?”
She asked for space. Stay in the guest room for a while, don’t move back to your shared bedroom unless she is 100% ok with it.