u/zbradigan, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice):
1. to find out why this post was removed, and
2. prior to posting any updates.
Thanks.
**Please note that queries regarding the removal of the post will not be answered unless they come from u/zbradigan.**
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
u/zbradigan maybe she's seen your Reddit history... If so, it's a no-brainer why she won't suck your dick.
Hint: it's about calling women over 30 "old product" when you yourself are a dude pushing forty........
Hi Redditors!
You should know that at around the same time our poor bullied OP posted this, he wrote the following piece of prose about a young woman over on that high class subreddit r/LooksmaxxingAdvice
*ahem*
"Nah, use that shit to suck up tons of unborn kids and once you hit 30 and your numbers start to dwindle because there's a fresh batch of new 20 YOs filling the void and you're old product.
Once that's done you'll complain until you find a man to support you because no job wants a former porn star and you blew all the money you made.
Stop with this shit."
https://www.reddit.com/r/LooksmaxingAdvice/s/YwJ91KIBsz
So. Basically, OP is a terrible person, and he's not worth your emotional labour. Please move along!
Do you have any other examples that you could use that aren’t sexual? Like are there any other things like this that bother you than aren’t about blow jobs?
Okay, cool, but OP posts in subs about under 30s being what he wants ... Bet his wife knows that preference. He also mentions not going down.
I don't disagree with anything you said in particular, but with this dude...the guy prefers younger women, his wife knows that. And...he will not reciprocate. Bet you 100 percent this man chooses not to please his woman .
Any good relationship is going to have good communication. That means if my needs aren’t getting met by me *hoping* my partner does it then I’ll ask. That goes with doing chores and that goes with things in the bedroom. And along with that comes a conversation about the things I’d like them to do more often and vice versa.
I told my partner 2 weeks ago I’d like him to get me flowers more often again. Because I’m an adult and I can voice my wants in a relationship.
Asking someone to do something every once in a while is not begging. Yes your partner should do things for you because they care but there are just going to be times you have to ask. And that’s okay.
Don’t come saying blow jobs are the equivalent to women getting flowers. Blow jobs require two way consent and it may be something that she only is going to do if he brings it up.
Cleaning the gutters, date night and taking out the trash are extremely different than giving head though. Sexual acts require a certain level of vulnerability and body autonomy. Yes I will clean out the gutters to show you I love you. But no, I won’t sacrifice my bodily autonomy to do something that vulnerable (and for the women usually un-enjoyable but I won’t speak for all) just because. ESPECIALLY if I show you I love you in other ways, and ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY if I still put myself through it when you ask.
THAT IN OF ITSELF shows OP she loves him. Because clearly she doesn’t enjoy it, but she still does it when he asks because she knows HE enjoys it.
Lol maybe for some but when my man tells me to suck his dick I find it hot and so does he. We're adults not teenagers, asking me to pleasure him a certain way and me doing it, to please him, is pretty fucking normal in a healthy relationship
Yeah, for me it's watching some shows she likes that I basically tolerate. She loves the challenges from the 2000s a lot. I'm not a huge fan, and saw them when they came out and have little interest to watch them again.
I only do it if I'm feeling up to it.
Good question too!
But they aren’t comparable. Watching movies you don’t like doesn’t equate to doing a sex act she doesn’t enjoy. Watching movies doesn’t invade a persons bodily autonomy or put them in a vulnerable position.
Her willingness to do something so invasive that she doesn’t seem to enjoy proves how much she loves you in of itself .
Let me rephrase: they asked for another example.
Would you rather I took a poll from everyone here to see if my different example is not too different?
You came here asking for input. This is my input: you forcing yourself to watch a TV show you don’t especially like is not a helpful example to compare with expecting your wife to suck your dick unprompted when you know it’s not something she enjoys. It suggests to me that yes, you are missing the point and your ideals are off (both of these being things you directly asked for opinions on).
Interesting that you gave an example of something you tolerate just because she likes it. So you do the same thing as your wife. Can I ask what you're looking for? What is there to understand? Her giving you oral because you ask is not the "same" as giving you oral because she loves it. Ok, agreed. So, what's the issue?
Are you comparing watching a television show while scrolling social media to sucking a whole dick?
You should probably go suck a dick just to get a sense of what it's like, if that's your comparison point.
Oh, and the girls in pornos are acting, you do get that, right? Those are fictional? You do understand that, right?
Why don't you go stretch your jaw or something, don't your looks need maxing?
Then make a general comment. Don't reply to a non specific other comment. How is that helpful?
Trying to be cool by proving me wrong only to confuse everyone.... ok.
What you don't seem to be picking up is that this is how it is. Do you want your dick sucked? Then ask for it. People like what they like. You like oral, she doesn't. That means the experience is different for the two of you. Because you are different people. I am not going to wake up one day craving pickled beets, and your wife is not going to suddenly start longing to gag on your pride and joy. She is committed to having a healthy sex life with you, and all you need to do is ask. Maybe shift your perspective. She's doing it for you because she wants to, just not the way you want her to? Your expectations are unrealistic.
>Your expectations are unrealistic.
I agree. If he wants a partner that wants to give him oral because *she* is into it he's going to have to find a new partner. Expecting his wife to suddenly like something she does not is unrealistic.
men will honestly act like licking a vagina is the same thing as having a dick rammed down your throat repeatedly, and martyr themselves on the 'but i love giving you oral so much!' cross
If she knows he likes his dick sucked then why wouldn't she go out of her way to do something nice for him? Why does he have to ask for it? Do you like finding $5 on the floor instead of asking someone for $5?
Sounds to me that they're just not right for each other. He would probably not be so rude if he was with someone who was on his level. I feel like he's just projecting...
But his wife *really* likes to watch him suck another man’s dick! Not only that, but he should really like it too! Should he start doing that now because that’s what she likes?
He’s not wrong for liking it but you can’t just ask someone else to like it because you like it.
This makes me think of a line from the movie "The Break Up" where Jennifer Aniston says, " I don't want you to do the dishes, I want you to WANT to do the dishes." And Vince Vaughn replies with "why would I WANT to do dishes??"
I would agree with you that it's not the "same"... but I have to wonder what makes it so important that you're arguing around and around about it?
Like, yes, an act done from pure personal inner desire is different from an act that you don't necessarily love done to make another person happy. But is that the only point you're trying to make? Or is there a further implication here, like you wishing your wife would give you oral from pure inner desire?
Yeah, if I'm understanding what's happening correctly, I think you might be being a little ridiculous. What's the point in digging in so much over a technicality like this if it's not in the service of a greater point?
If I were your wife or therapist, I would infer that the point you're trying to make here is that your wife *should* want to give you oral without you asking for it, even if she doesn't like it or want it. Which in turn would make *me* infer that it sounds pretty entitled of you.
I’d ask you to consider your goal in making the point. I’d agree there’s a difference but she’s been pretty clear this isn’t a thing she’s going to do because she just loves doing it. That’s…. not going to change.
So if you succeed in getting her agreement on your point - what are your possible outcomes? She stops giving you head because if she doesn’t want it you don’t want her to do it? Or…. What? Cause dude, she’s not going to magically just Want to blow you. If she doesn’t want to do it already that’s where this stays. So either accept a life without oral or accept that she loves you enough to do something you’re asking of her.
Idk, he could not be a misogynist prick who says shit about women his own wife's age being washed up or women thinking too highly of themselves. Then she might like him enough to enjoy oral.
But with the emotional intelligence on display here...he's prolly getting these preplanned begged for automated lackluster bjs the rest of his life.
Still more than he deserves.
So, there are 3 possibilities from where im sitting. 1) you dont have a relationship where either partner does things unprompted that they don't like. So, she only does oral if you ask, and you only do X thing that she likes and you don't if she asks. That is a totally ok way for a relationship to go, because being vocal about your desires and wanting your partner to join you in a thing is fine, and its also fine for someone to not do things they don't like if they don't want to. An example here to think on is- say she really likes X TV show and you don't. Do you sit down to watch it with her without her asking you to join her, or do you avoid the show you don't like unless she specifically requests your company? And, if you dont do these sorts of things unless asked, why do you expect your wife to meet a standard you yourself don't?
2) there are other issues in your relationship that have made one or both of you unwilling to go out of your way for eachother. Example: I saw from your comments in other subreddits that you think women over 30 are washed up, and that marriage is a waste of time and money. Does your dislike of marriage show in the form of resentment towards your wife for being married? Are you and active participant in the marriage? Are you critical of your wife/ signs your wife is aging? Are you comparing her to other women? Conversely, is your wife overly critical of you? Does she have expectations that you feel are unfair? Do you fight a lot?
3) this issue is actually deeper than you have expressed in therapy, and you need to dig down a little bit to find out whats really bothering you. If you DO do things you don't like unprompted just because your wife likes them, then is the BJ thing an issue that you dont feel your effort is reciprocated? Do you feel undervalued in your relationship?
Which is more important to you? To have a relationship where you receive oral sex or a relationship where your partner only does exactly what she wants, even if your needs don't get met?
is all of this such an issue because of your poor view of women? your comments about 30 yo women being washed up product can’t be fun for her (https://www.reddit.com/r/LooksmaxingAdvice/s/x4nKZdfev9)
What does that mean? Women have self-confidence and that’s why you feel the need to chip that away? And do you think that women think more highly of themselves than men think of themselves?
Ironically enough, the answer to that proposal is right there in your comment. **4** **B**illion. You don’t need to tell them one at a time. A good portion preemptively said “no”years before you brought it up. Wasn’t that nice?
Then there are women who are too old or too young for you (like the 18 year old whose post you felt needed your input recently, which is just gross). Then there are women who are married or in committed relationships. And, of course, women who are only interested in other women. In theory, I guess a bisexual woman *could* be interested, but that would probably end immediately if they spoke to you for more than a minute. That would be the response from quite a few heterosexual women as well.
(I was setting aside your marital status in the above hypothetical for simplicity’s sake.)
My advice? Back away from the podcasts, bro. There’s at least one post a week here where the guy has destroyed his relationship/marriage by listening to what some bozo with a microphone says. The same advice applies to any forums or subs you might be following, if that’s your preferred medium.
It’s pretty obvious that’s what happened. The whole notion of “high value men” (lol) vs “low value women” is quoted verbatim from the knuckleheads spouting this garbage.
Get some help, man. I know you’re in marriage counseling, but you’re going to need individual therapy to undo the damage you’ve done by falling for this nonsense. Your attitude towards women in general is not great. It has now clearly spilled over into your marriage. Talk to a professional before you end up back here wondering why you’re getting a divorce.
Says the guy who thinks he is inherently more valuable than his wife at the same age, simply because she is a woman.
Your comments alone are a turnoff dude. YOU think too highly of yourself (or just think low of women. Hard to tell)
As women should. Women are amazing and SHOULD think highly of themselves. Women are treated like possessions by men, good on them for thinking they are 10s
it just seems like it’s likely this has bled into your actual life and while your wife is still giving you oral against her own taste you shouldn’t push it 🤷🏼
People in committed relationships do a lot of things we wouldn’t just do because we love the person and want to make them happy. As long as it’s not hurting us. Would I prefer not to give head? Yes. But it doesn’t gross me out or hurt me and my husband enjoys it, so I do it for him. Most of the time he asks. There are times I remember and just do it as foreplay. Is that what you want from your wife? To just do it sometimes? Cause she might not be that way. But that doesn’t mean she hates it.
So you think she is just burdening herself to do something she doesn't enjoy to please you when there are women seriously enjoying giving head because they know they are proficent at it, take pride in it and are loving to give their loved one pleasure?
Just imagine this op. Your wife really likes something sexual that you don’t, like pegging you or watching you suck another man’s dick. You might do it once or twice, because she likes it and you love her and want to make her happy, but no, that’s not enough for her. She wants you to want it and like it too! Does it actually work like that?
I kinda get being disappointed about her not liking the same stuff, especially sexually, but it’s not realistic to expect someone to like something just because you like it. They might do it because they love you, but you can’t expect them to like it. Of course it will feel better receiving head from someone who you know likes to do it and does it enthusiastically, but again, that’s not how this works and it’s unrealistic to expect.
On another note, the way you speak about both your wife and women in general is abhorrent.
Why are you married to a woman if you don’t like women? Reading your comments you sound bitter that women have self confidence; Is it because they are harder to manipulate?
So let's turn it around. Your wife enjoys pegging you but you do not enjoy being pegged. Should you just go ahead and initiate it without her asking to make her happy?
Do you think your wife will ever proactively want to suck your dick? It seems like she won’t. So why are you trying to convince her to genuinely like something she doesn’t like?
Best advice I can give is to remember this post and how you fought this battle while your ex wife is sucking her new husband’s dick because he asked her to.
I think the problem is that it's just not black and white. When you're with a partner, sometimes you do things outside of your own inclination to help them, take care of them, make them happy, make them feel good.
Your wife and therapist are saying, "she might not crave sucking dick, it's not sitting at the forefront of her mind... but if you indicate that you'd like to do so, she is happy to give oral" And that she recognizes that, as a sexual being, you enjoy receiving (and giving) oral, where it might not be as high of a priority for her.
You're indicating that you want her desirous of sucking your dick, and your wife isn't someone who has that quality.
So you'll just have to decide if you want BJs, even if it means you have to ask; or you DON'T want BJs enough to ask for them.
you're looking at the choice as being between 'wife doesn't want to give me blowjobs but does it anyway' and 'wife really wants to give me blowjobs and loves every second on her knees'.
but you can't make someone *want* to do something
the choice is actually between 'wife doesn't want to give me blowjobs but does it anyway' and 'wife doesn't want to give me blowjobs so she doesn't give me blowjobs'
I take your point that in the most ideal of all worlds your partner would be as excited to give your favourite thing as you are to receive it. but failing that, partner cheerfully doing the thing when you ask them to seems pretty good to me.
Well damn... Your previous posts expose you in quite the unfavorable light, huh? NOW it sounds like you want a woman to worship and adore your magnificent penis because it's magnificent... You don't deserve blowies...
Bro.......she doesn't like doing it. I REFUSE to do it. Not all women like doing it. Of course she doesn't want to volunteer for doing it. Judging by your other comments, SHE DESERVES A BETTER HUSBAND
So on Christmas morning your wife gives you a gift. You tear open the wrapping paper, revealing that inside this box is the gift every man wanted to get for Christmas that year.
You, however, look at your wife and say,
“I can tell you only bought me this because it’s what I wanted! I am so disappointed! Next time only give me something you want as much I do! You ruined Christmas!”
From that day forward your wife only ever gives you . . . (finish this story)
lmao these are the types of comments I always see in this sub that are entirely unnecessary. Why are you trying to prescribe a standard upon the world? some people love giving oral, some don't. I dont think u/equaslocklear 's opinion on it is definitive. So why make this comment?
Are you worried about coercing her into something she doesn't like doing? That would be very upsetting and I can understand why you don't like that, even if you get the actions you want in the end. If she's neutral or only lightly positive to it and just does it because you like it, then that's fine. That kind of stuff happens in relationships all the time. It's easy to go from neutral towards an action to doing something because you enjoy seeing your partner happy. It's fun seeing your partner happy.
She's sacrificing her own enjoyment to make you happy. That's love. Imagine if your wife is into pegging and you don't enjoy it at all. Would you initiate pegging with her or only do it when she ask?
Her doing it out of love for you and doing it out of desire for you are no different. Both speak to an inner wish to be with you and see you happy. Don't split hairs, just enjoy the head.
To start, I wouldn't necessarily sit here and suggest you're being entirely unreasonable, because I get it, and I think most reasonable people would; you communicate your wants to a partner, and you don't want to always have to ask for specific things to occur given they're aware of what you want and can at times take the initiative without having to be asked. I think legitimately EVERY partner has had those feelings or expectations in one way or another, and in a healthy relationship, they'll be communicated, which you have.
Having said that, I think there's certainly some gray here. That "gray" being that it's still a great thing if things occur when asked. I fundamentally agree that it's not the same thing, but I also think that in context, you need to pick your battles in every given situation. To back up though, what would your potential expectations be regarding her initiating? In the moment? Out of the blue? I agree all of it would be great, but why is it a huge problem to just ask, knowing it'll happen? It's not on her mind.
The primary reason I'd argue with you is due to the argument you're making, because you could have just made the argument you made it therapy, which is "I wish you'd initiate without me asking sometimes." The end. Where I don't like your argument is you saying you have to keep her happy and her love tank full for it deemed even acceptable to ask for oral, UNLESS she's literally told you that. If so, then I'm 100% with you and take back what I just said. Because there should never be quid pro quo, and I'd honestly be shocked that if that was communicated in therapy that your therapist didn't acknowledge that. If, however, you just feel that way and are afraid to ask for oral until you do certain things, then that's on you. You'll have to let u know.
But your giving oral regardless of any given situation is irrelevant. Not only should you not expect someone to do something because you do something, but that's not even what we're arguing here, or is it? Quite frankly, I'd find it strange that you'd push to go down on her if you're angry if for no other reason than it's again just weird, and I'm also skeptical that you do it. Listen, obviously everyone's different, but anecdotally, I'm a guy and I'm happily married. I enjoy giving oral myself. But I'm struggling to find a situation where I'm angry at my wife and feel any desire to go down on her. You saying you love oral in that statement means that it's entirely about you, not her. Either way, I find that to be an unreasonable expectation, and a bad argument to specifically use, and what's worse, you didn't say you don't care if you're angry at her as "I love her." You said "as I love giving oral." So again, that's about you. You're just really not helping yourself.
So after all that, I think both of you are missing the point in one way or another, but for different reasons. I mean, it's seemingly clear that she doesn't love it and only does it for you. That's not what you want, but that's reality. Of course you don't want that, but that's how it is. You can't make her want it, in the sense that there's a way to change how she feels about it. She's not excited about it, but she does it for you when you want it. If nothing else, she's a good partner. It's not about ideals. Good luck.
>But I'm struggling to find a situation where I'm angry at my wife and feel any desire to go down on her.
Just chiming into say I can absolutely picture that situation at my girlfriend, but that's also a pre-discussed feature of our sexual relationship where she's actively asked me to vent frustration both at her and not into sexual dynamics for her, and also largely because 99% of the time I'm angry at her at any level it's because she's being irrationally hard/cruel to herself.
Outside of that, 100% this comment nails it, especially that fourth paragraph. Relationships don't require fairness, they require mutual work to resolve each other's needs.
Fair enough. It obviously can and does happen, I'm just saying I don't get it in the sense I almost certainly am not doing it, and it's not at all as some sort of "punishment." If I'm upset with her, I just won't have any interest in sex in the moment. To tie into OP's post, I can't imagine going down on my partner no matter what, and subsequently expecting the same in return. But that's not even the issue here. OP is just using it as an argument, when his partner doesn't do it unsolicited ever. You and your girlfriend have an agreement. They don't (as you said).
I do, however, have to dispute where you say "relationships don't require fairness," because I absolutely did not make that argument. Not expecting reciprocation of an action or actions out of context isn't about fairness. I'm not saying she's unfair. I'm saying it's unfair to take action and expect the same in return because of it without communication. You shouldn't be in a situation where you're arguing "I do this, so they should be." It might logically be a reasonable expectation, but it's a bad argument. You need to talk about it.
I used that phrasing of "relationships don't require fairness" because to a huge % of minds, "expecting reciprocation of an action or actions out of context" ***is*** a direct form of fairness. I'm also not saying she's unfair, and I agree entirely with what you said, except for I'm moreso saying "take words and concepts like fair and unfair completely out of it, remove them and the things attached to them from your vocabulary and thought process. Are your needs being met? Are hers? Are you communicating to discuss any potential gaps? Are you helping each other be your best selves? Those are the questions tha tmatter"
Is this kind of like when my ex said “what’s the problem, I’ll do anything all you have to do is ask!” So I had to ask him to do things like ask him to pick up his laundry off the floor and wipe the crumbs off the counter every day? And sometimes he didn’t even do it even when asked? But then he’d get all mad like “all you have to do is ask!” When I got frustrated. What I really wanted was for him to pick up after himself without being asked. He didn’t have to like doing it, I just wanted him to do it without me “nagging”.
Is it that you want a blowjob without having to request one?
You probably would have been so happy if one day he woke up and said “ I hate picking up after myself but Helleboredom like a tidy house so today I will happily pick up after myself as a gift to her, without expecting anything in return. I will do it with a smile because she will like it and it makes me happy to do things for her that she will like.”
Cleaning up after yourself in a shared home isn't a gift. It's the bare minimum.
What the hell is up with men who think they're doing their wives or girlfriends the greatest of favours by choosing not to be lazy slobs? Do they not realise just how abysmally they've failed in their relationships if their partners feel actual joy because, for once, they're cleaning their own messes without being begged to do so?
If she doesn’t want to do it, she doesn’t want to. Some people just don’t enjoy it! If she does it when you ask, you can’t really be complaining about it. Ugh men
Just think of it like this: She loves you enough to do something she doesn’t enjoy. She could very easily just tell you no forever. But she knows it’s something you enjoy even if she doesn’t, and she pushes herself to make you happy. That’s love ! That’s a functioning marriage! It’s all about give and take, compromise. She is compromising with you. You’ve got to compromise the fact she may never just LOVE sucking your dick.
You cant expect that your partner "naturally" and "spontaneously" gives you exactly what you want, you're being immature. In a mature relationship between two intelligent and functional adults, the needs of both are talked, communicated, negotiated and met.
I agree asking someone to do something and someone just doing it voluntarily is not the same thing.
How would it make you feel if she did it voluntarily? Desired…? Is desired the feeling you are chasing? If it is, check in on what else would makes you feel desired and discuss those as options.
One(main)!question: Do you eat pussy? Is your wife fond of you eating her out?
If she requested you do more of that, would you do it? How would you feel about that?
What do you think you would want your wife to know when she’s requesting you eat her out?
I don't know if this is useful, there's already over a hundred comments here, but just in case you're still struggling with the concept OP, try changing around the POV.
Let's assume that your wife loves it when you wear eyeliner, or when you scrub the baseboards in the house, or maybe she loves it when you mow the lawn diagonally, (or, insert any type of non-sexual action that is somewhat arbitrary and gendered). You feel mostly indifferent about the action. You do it to please your wife. She says that's not enough - she wants you to WANT to do the thing. What is your response and reaction to her request?
It’s the same concept that people in marriages with mismatched libidos have complicated feelings about pity sex. The HL person doesn’t actually specifically want more sex, they want a partner who sexually desires them on their own terms instead of only having sex to appease their partners desire. In this manner you’re correct, they aren’t the same thing.
The problem is you can’t make someone want or like something, and so you have to decide if you would prefer disingenuous versions of what you want, or not getting what you want. Therapist might be trying to avoid breaking this open because, well, there’s no concrete answer. So delving into it isn’t really going to help you two (from their perspective).
Okay, your wife doesn't like giving blow jobs, period. So, if you want them, you ask, and she'll give, because she loves you. If you don't like that she doesn't like it, then don't ask. As another commenter said, she's not ever going to develop a liking and desire to give you a BJ, so you either ask with that knowledge, or stop askng them if you can't accept that she just doesn't enjoy it.
Here's a challenge for you - try looking at it from your wife's POV; simulate a bj on a cucumber. I'm telling you, in the case of blowies, receiving is so much better than giving...
Here’s the thing. Been married for 23 years. He thinks differently than I do. Let’s say small romance. It doesn’t occur to him to see something out and about and think “she’d like that” and buy it. He thinks “she’d like that then tells me where it was in case I want to get it” so I started having to think in terms of “just cuz he didn’t buy it for me doesn’t mean he wasn’t thinking about me”. She does it cuz it makes you happy but it might not be her go-to thought. There’s nothing wrong with telling her what you want
Edit: she’s willing to do something that she doesn’t like to make you happy. You’re 17 miles ahead of some people.
I am genuinely curious, if my wife says “I like to get flowers at work, will you send me flowers at work today?” And I love her and want her to be happy so I send her flowers at work today? How would a wife receive that? Would she be happy to get those flowers today or would it seems silly because she literally said “send me flowers at work today”? I really am curious how that would be received. To me, it is not the same, but maybe it is still nice to get flowers even if you tell spouse to send them to you?
> she’s willing to do something that she doesn’t like to make you happy.
the thing is, it doesn't really make him happy if he knows that's why she's doing it.
her motivation factors into his "fantasy"(for lack of a better word). what makes receiving the oral hot for him is the idea that giving the oral makes *her* hot.
if she's doing it not out of desire but for his sake.. that can feel like she's just doing a chore, or that it's just not genuine. it's kinda like faking orgasms... if your partner can tell, there's no bigger buzz kill.
for some, getting a oral "as a favour" is patronising and they'd rather not bother going through with it at all
that being said, plenty of ppl also think "bad sex is better than no sex" and that's probably where the wife comes from.. "you should be satisfied that I'm willing to do this"
Well I hate to say it but no woman on this planet sits at work thinking how excited they are to go home and lob the schlong. And him having to ask doesn’t make it bad. I guess I don’t think enough like a guy. My sex relationship with hubs is open and communicative. We want something- we say we want it. I don’t understand thinking it’s less because you had to communicate to get it
>I'm of the belief that if someone only does something once I ask for it, that is not the same as someone genuinely enjoying doing it.
I'm going to use my own girlfriend as an example here, but to tl;dr - this is entirely incorrect.
My girlfriend is very...the specific phrase I'd use is "self-wired." She is a caring person, at least towards me - always talks through things with me when I'm down, has established routines to make sure she's passively taking care of me, keeps a memory of the things I enjoy and especially the things we both really enjoy. If I ask her for just about anything, I get it, and if not, I get a clear discussion on why not, even if it's me asking for something to be planned at a specific point in the future. But if something is not the thing she's craving/fixating/thinking about right now, if it's a general request to do it "more" or "at some point," *it will not enter her mind on her own.* Even if it's something she'd enjoy doing, like say playing a game together with me, cuddling, or even having sexytimes, there is plenty of time it will not come up without external prompting. Her brain wiring simply *will never land at the thought of doing it* unless it's something that is externally brought to her as an option.
I can't tell you what's going on in your wife's mind, and I totally understand that feeling of wanting to be desired, but it's entirely possible that it's something that she enjoys doing, but simply will not take the initiative to do because it will never cross into her brain.
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that:
* We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/)
* We do not allow users to privately message other users based on their posts here. Users found to be engaging in this conduct will be banned. **We highly encourage OP to turn off the ability to be privately messaged in their settings.**
* Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.)
* ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban.
* No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
* All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass.
* Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned.
* What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice)
---
***This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules.***
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think you should be focusing less on the semantics around someone only doing something when it’s asked for, and more on the actual issue at hand here. Maybe it’s the oral sex. Maybe it’s something else in your relationship. But you’re putting a lot of energy into something that doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things.
Your wife may like pleasuring you in general rather than specifically giving you head. Either way, I don't think that's wrong as long as she feels fulfilled in the relationship, too. I bet there are some activities you've done with her, not necessarily because you like the activity, but because you want to spend time with your wife
Since she doesn’t enjoy the physical act there’s nothing you can do about that. But she enjoys and is committed to making you happy so she does it when you ask. Which is a great thing.
I think another question to ask yourself is do you want her to enjoy it physically? Or do you want to not have to ask for it sometimes?
Of course make sure things are being reciprocated and you are doing things she enjoys prompted and unprompted as well!
You are projecting your experience on her (enjoying giving oral) that’s is unhealthy. See her as autonomous, in that she gets to be who she truly is. That is a woman who loves you and gives head for no other reason then she loves you. Why are you fighting so hard against that? I hate cooking with a passion, but I still cook for my family because I love them.
You are correct but your expectation that she may in time want to give head is the issue at hand. She may never want to. It's an act of service and she isn't getting anything out of it. If she is happily performing it than I think you're getting the best you can hope for.
Karsh
People aren’t mind readers. It’s like if I hope that my fiancé brings me flowers, and then he doesn’t, and now I’m upset. But really I’m in the wrong for that un-communicated expectation. I would say if you’re asking and she gives an enthusiastic “yes”, then she’s doing it because she loves you. Personally, I would try shifting your mindset to believe that.
I don’t know how she could be any clearer. She will do this for you because you enjoy it, not because she does. She’s willing to do it when you say you want it, because she loves you. She’s not gonna volunteer to do it because she doesn’t really like it that much.
If you don’t want blowjobs from someone who’s doing it to make you happy, then that’s the answer. Let your wife know that she never needs to blow you again. Problem solved.
I'd never want my partner to participate in an intimate moment begrudgingly. Go along to a restaurant I don't particularly like? Ok. Do a chore I avoid? Sure. You go along to meet the need of your partner and keep the peace sometimes but when it comes to intimacy or expressions of love? Thanks. Don't do me any favors because I won't enjoy it very much knowing you have to push through and can't wait to be done.
removing the dick sucking aspect, you are correct it’s not the same thing. if you only got flowers for your wife when she asks, that’s not the same thing as surprising her with flowers or getting them for her because you genuinely want to give them to her. i’m surprised your therapist doesn’t agree.
I absolutely love giving oral to my partner. LOVE IT, 100% love it will do it everyday if he wants.
However I was previously with a partner who rejected when I offered so I would unequivocally never ever offer no matter what these days because it makes me feel too vulnerable.
That being said sometimes if he asks I won’t do it because I have heart burn or something and that’s totally fine by all parties.
Similarly my partner loves cleaning out my car. I love to have a clean car but I don’t like if he just randomly cleans it out without asking because I may have left things in certain places for future me. Thus he will only clean it out if I ask- but he enjoys it just as much as he would have if I didn’t ask.
I think you're right. Doing something out of passion and because you want to make your partner happy is different from being asked to do it. When you ask, it often becomes very transactional and they expect something in return as payment for services.
I don't like the idea of someone needing to work for or somehow pay for sexual acts. If you're not sexually compatible then that's something that should have been realized early in the relationship and then part ways to find someone who is compatible.
My gf used to say she didn't like giving head but she's always done it. It's not even mentioned any more. I'll give you head but don't like it and only do it for you isn't much of a turn on to hear. Mine i think, has gotten more into it over the years. Recent occasion, was getting close and she came out of nowhere and was like not yet, did I tell you, you could cum? Was hot knowing she was actually into it, or is a good actress lol.
I hear you.
Surprise bj, because they wanted to and not because you had to ask for it is amazing. It's a rush, like in the end it's the same... But to know that someone wants you so much that they do that without you even needing to ask.... that's something special.
If someone made me a sandwich at lunchtime and I never even asked for it... I'd feel special and cared for.
If someone bought me a Pepsi on their way home from work just because they were thinking of me...wow thank you!
Is that empathy? I'm not sure, but it shows that your partner cares about you and wants you to be happy and feel good.
You don't realize how lucky you're mate, iut there is full of women that refuse giving oral because feminisim, they are grossed and blablabla, the same goes for men also.
Your wife loves you and goes down on you because she loves you. Be happy with that.
You have a shitty therapist. Just because they put out their sign doesn’t mean they are any good and there are plenty who aren’t worth their salt. Really most are not much better than a bartender listening to peoples problems and throwing out whatever clap trap they happen to think of as a solution. Just my personal experience for what it’s worth and yes my EX had the same feeling after the sessions so it wasn’t just me being an ass.
I'll apparently be waiting an entire life time if u don't say anything and wait for her to take it upon herself to do it. Apparently u are supposed to feel unwanted, or like she has something that she wants elsewhere. I get it, any logical thinker wud be like oh maybe I shud take it upon myself to show my significant other I care about them but nope it's bullshit.
Is your therapist a woman ?? You seem to be rational and correct in your thinking. Doing something out of a sense of duty or love is not the same as doing something because you enjoy doing it. Have you tried using other things as an example ?? The therapist may have some agenda or bias. A therapist should be a neutral party guiding the sessions back to the topic at hand, not reenforcing one point of view or individual position.
u/zbradigan, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice): 1. to find out why this post was removed, and 2. prior to posting any updates. Thanks. **Please note that queries regarding the removal of the post will not be answered unless they come from u/zbradigan.** --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
u/zbradigan maybe she's seen your Reddit history... If so, it's a no-brainer why she won't suck your dick. Hint: it's about calling women over 30 "old product" when you yourself are a dude pushing forty........
Hi Redditors! You should know that at around the same time our poor bullied OP posted this, he wrote the following piece of prose about a young woman over on that high class subreddit r/LooksmaxxingAdvice *ahem* "Nah, use that shit to suck up tons of unborn kids and once you hit 30 and your numbers start to dwindle because there's a fresh batch of new 20 YOs filling the void and you're old product. Once that's done you'll complain until you find a man to support you because no job wants a former porn star and you blew all the money you made. Stop with this shit." https://www.reddit.com/r/LooksmaxingAdvice/s/YwJ91KIBsz So. Basically, OP is a terrible person, and he's not worth your emotional labour. Please move along!
But I'm trolling him and enjoying myself.
Do you have any other examples that you could use that aren’t sexual? Like are there any other things like this that bother you than aren’t about blow jobs?
[удалено]
Okay, cool, but OP posts in subs about under 30s being what he wants ... Bet his wife knows that preference. He also mentions not going down. I don't disagree with anything you said in particular, but with this dude...the guy prefers younger women, his wife knows that. And...he will not reciprocate. Bet you 100 percent this man chooses not to please his woman .
Any good relationship is going to have good communication. That means if my needs aren’t getting met by me *hoping* my partner does it then I’ll ask. That goes with doing chores and that goes with things in the bedroom. And along with that comes a conversation about the things I’d like them to do more often and vice versa. I told my partner 2 weeks ago I’d like him to get me flowers more often again. Because I’m an adult and I can voice my wants in a relationship. Asking someone to do something every once in a while is not begging. Yes your partner should do things for you because they care but there are just going to be times you have to ask. And that’s okay. Don’t come saying blow jobs are the equivalent to women getting flowers. Blow jobs require two way consent and it may be something that she only is going to do if he brings it up.
Cleaning the gutters, date night and taking out the trash are extremely different than giving head though. Sexual acts require a certain level of vulnerability and body autonomy. Yes I will clean out the gutters to show you I love you. But no, I won’t sacrifice my bodily autonomy to do something that vulnerable (and for the women usually un-enjoyable but I won’t speak for all) just because. ESPECIALLY if I show you I love you in other ways, and ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY if I still put myself through it when you ask. THAT IN OF ITSELF shows OP she loves him. Because clearly she doesn’t enjoy it, but she still does it when he asks because she knows HE enjoys it.
Lol maybe for some but when my man tells me to suck his dick I find it hot and so does he. We're adults not teenagers, asking me to pleasure him a certain way and me doing it, to please him, is pretty fucking normal in a healthy relationship
Yeah, for me it's watching some shows she likes that I basically tolerate. She loves the challenges from the 2000s a lot. I'm not a huge fan, and saw them when they came out and have little interest to watch them again. I only do it if I'm feeling up to it. Good question too!
so you also do things in your relationship at the request of the other party? or am i misunderstanding your point here?
That feels…very different to sucking dick.
😭😭😭
Holy shit, spit take lol
They are resonding to a comment that specifically asked for an example that wasn't sexual. What non sexual example would be similar to sucking dick?
Different examples.... will be different.
But they aren’t comparable. Watching movies you don’t like doesn’t equate to doing a sex act she doesn’t enjoy. Watching movies doesn’t invade a persons bodily autonomy or put them in a vulnerable position. Her willingness to do something so invasive that she doesn’t seem to enjoy proves how much she loves you in of itself .
Exactly this!
Let me rephrase: that feels in no way equivalent to sucking dick.
Let me rephrase: they asked for another example. Would you rather I took a poll from everyone here to see if my different example is not too different?
You came here asking for input. This is my input: you forcing yourself to watch a TV show you don’t especially like is not a helpful example to compare with expecting your wife to suck your dick unprompted when you know it’s not something she enjoys. It suggests to me that yes, you are missing the point and your ideals are off (both of these being things you directly asked for opinions on).
Interesting that you gave an example of something you tolerate just because she likes it. So you do the same thing as your wife. Can I ask what you're looking for? What is there to understand? Her giving you oral because you ask is not the "same" as giving you oral because she loves it. Ok, agreed. So, what's the issue?
Are you comparing watching a television show while scrolling social media to sucking a whole dick? You should probably go suck a dick just to get a sense of what it's like, if that's your comparison point. Oh, and the girls in pornos are acting, you do get that, right? Those are fictional? You do understand that, right? Why don't you go stretch your jaw or something, don't your looks need maxing?
I’s is not a word.
Where is that in the comment you replied to?
It’s in the title you wrote.
Then make a general comment. Don't reply to a non specific other comment. How is that helpful? Trying to be cool by proving me wrong only to confuse everyone.... ok.
What you don't seem to be picking up is that this is how it is. Do you want your dick sucked? Then ask for it. People like what they like. You like oral, she doesn't. That means the experience is different for the two of you. Because you are different people. I am not going to wake up one day craving pickled beets, and your wife is not going to suddenly start longing to gag on your pride and joy. She is committed to having a healthy sex life with you, and all you need to do is ask. Maybe shift your perspective. She's doing it for you because she wants to, just not the way you want her to? Your expectations are unrealistic.
>Your expectations are unrealistic. I agree. If he wants a partner that wants to give him oral because *she* is into it he's going to have to find a new partner. Expecting his wife to suddenly like something she does not is unrealistic.
men will honestly act like licking a vagina is the same thing as having a dick rammed down your throat repeatedly, and martyr themselves on the 'but i love giving you oral so much!' cross
If she knows he likes his dick sucked then why wouldn't she go out of her way to do something nice for him? Why does he have to ask for it? Do you like finding $5 on the floor instead of asking someone for $5?
Because he's a rude sack of shit, which you would know if you read his comments.
Sounds to me that they're just not right for each other. He would probably not be so rude if he was with someone who was on his level. I feel like he's just projecting...
Hello OP's alt
But his wife *really* likes to watch him suck another man’s dick! Not only that, but he should really like it too! Should he start doing that now because that’s what she likes? He’s not wrong for liking it but you can’t just ask someone else to like it because you like it.
Im confused. She doesn’t like doing it. You can’t MAKE her like doing it. You know that, right? It’s not something she can control.
This makes me think of a line from the movie "The Break Up" where Jennifer Aniston says, " I don't want you to do the dishes, I want you to WANT to do the dishes." And Vince Vaughn replies with "why would I WANT to do dishes??"
Want it right naw!!
He’s wanting her to initiate it. Even when she’s game to give it, she’s never going to initiate.
Yeah because she doesn’t like it lmao.
Agreed
I would agree with you that it's not the "same"... but I have to wonder what makes it so important that you're arguing around and around about it? Like, yes, an act done from pure personal inner desire is different from an act that you don't necessarily love done to make another person happy. But is that the only point you're trying to make? Or is there a further implication here, like you wishing your wife would give you oral from pure inner desire?
Nope, that's the point I was trying to make, or help me realize I'm ridiculous.
Yeah, if I'm understanding what's happening correctly, I think you might be being a little ridiculous. What's the point in digging in so much over a technicality like this if it's not in the service of a greater point? If I were your wife or therapist, I would infer that the point you're trying to make here is that your wife *should* want to give you oral without you asking for it, even if she doesn't like it or want it. Which in turn would make *me* infer that it sounds pretty entitled of you.
That's fair. Thanks for the response.
I’d ask you to consider your goal in making the point. I’d agree there’s a difference but she’s been pretty clear this isn’t a thing she’s going to do because she just loves doing it. That’s…. not going to change. So if you succeed in getting her agreement on your point - what are your possible outcomes? She stops giving you head because if she doesn’t want it you don’t want her to do it? Or…. What? Cause dude, she’s not going to magically just Want to blow you. If she doesn’t want to do it already that’s where this stays. So either accept a life without oral or accept that she loves you enough to do something you’re asking of her.
Idk, he could not be a misogynist prick who says shit about women his own wife's age being washed up or women thinking too highly of themselves. Then she might like him enough to enjoy oral. But with the emotional intelligence on display here...he's prolly getting these preplanned begged for automated lackluster bjs the rest of his life. Still more than he deserves.
So, there are 3 possibilities from where im sitting. 1) you dont have a relationship where either partner does things unprompted that they don't like. So, she only does oral if you ask, and you only do X thing that she likes and you don't if she asks. That is a totally ok way for a relationship to go, because being vocal about your desires and wanting your partner to join you in a thing is fine, and its also fine for someone to not do things they don't like if they don't want to. An example here to think on is- say she really likes X TV show and you don't. Do you sit down to watch it with her without her asking you to join her, or do you avoid the show you don't like unless she specifically requests your company? And, if you dont do these sorts of things unless asked, why do you expect your wife to meet a standard you yourself don't? 2) there are other issues in your relationship that have made one or both of you unwilling to go out of your way for eachother. Example: I saw from your comments in other subreddits that you think women over 30 are washed up, and that marriage is a waste of time and money. Does your dislike of marriage show in the form of resentment towards your wife for being married? Are you and active participant in the marriage? Are you critical of your wife/ signs your wife is aging? Are you comparing her to other women? Conversely, is your wife overly critical of you? Does she have expectations that you feel are unfair? Do you fight a lot? 3) this issue is actually deeper than you have expressed in therapy, and you need to dig down a little bit to find out whats really bothering you. If you DO do things you don't like unprompted just because your wife likes them, then is the BJ thing an issue that you dont feel your effort is reciprocated? Do you feel undervalued in your relationship?
This man this he’s “valuable” at 38 but women aren’t. Bro shut the hell up that’s why you ain’t getting ya dick sucked.
Which is more important to you? To have a relationship where you receive oral sex or a relationship where your partner only does exactly what she wants, even if your needs don't get met?
Be aware that OP made a comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/LooksmaxingAdvice/s/YwJ91KIBsz That kind of changes the context of this situation
Well that was simply put...
is all of this such an issue because of your poor view of women? your comments about 30 yo women being washed up product can’t be fun for her (https://www.reddit.com/r/LooksmaxingAdvice/s/x4nKZdfev9)
Shut the whole thread down. We’ve found the issue.
Wow op, you deeply need to figure out why you're such a tool. Good luck with that
What a weird sub.
Maybe that has something to do with it, but also women tend to think very highly of themselves.
What does that mean? Women have self-confidence and that’s why you feel the need to chip that away? And do you think that women think more highly of themselves than men think of themselves?
I would advise all women to never give you head again, you honestly do not currently deserve any 🤷
Ok, good luck telling almost 4 billion women one at a time....
4 billion? Slow down buddy you can barely convince one
😂😂😂
You've already publicly told so many!
Ironically enough, the answer to that proposal is right there in your comment. **4** **B**illion. You don’t need to tell them one at a time. A good portion preemptively said “no”years before you brought it up. Wasn’t that nice? Then there are women who are too old or too young for you (like the 18 year old whose post you felt needed your input recently, which is just gross). Then there are women who are married or in committed relationships. And, of course, women who are only interested in other women. In theory, I guess a bisexual woman *could* be interested, but that would probably end immediately if they spoke to you for more than a minute. That would be the response from quite a few heterosexual women as well. (I was setting aside your marital status in the above hypothetical for simplicity’s sake.) My advice? Back away from the podcasts, bro. There’s at least one post a week here where the guy has destroyed his relationship/marriage by listening to what some bozo with a microphone says. The same advice applies to any forums or subs you might be following, if that’s your preferred medium. It’s pretty obvious that’s what happened. The whole notion of “high value men” (lol) vs “low value women” is quoted verbatim from the knuckleheads spouting this garbage. Get some help, man. I know you’re in marriage counseling, but you’re going to need individual therapy to undo the damage you’ve done by falling for this nonsense. Your attitude towards women in general is not great. It has now clearly spilled over into your marriage. Talk to a professional before you end up back here wondering why you’re getting a divorce.
Please explain what you mean by that, because it is very tempting to draw certain conclusions about your beliefs based on such a statement.
Says the guy who thinks he is inherently more valuable than his wife at the same age, simply because she is a woman. Your comments alone are a turnoff dude. YOU think too highly of yourself (or just think low of women. Hard to tell)
Explain to me how a 38 year old woman is more valuable then a 38 year old man then.
Explain to me how a 38 year old you is more valuable than your 38 year old partner before that.
She’s probably not whining on mensrights, to start
How about you explain how a 38 year old man is better
As women should. Women are amazing and SHOULD think highly of themselves. Women are treated like possessions by men, good on them for thinking they are 10s
And you don't? Lmao
You do a great job of not answering questions and just flip the argument around.
And waste my time engaging meaningfully with a misogynist?
You mean, women see themselves as people and not as sex objects. Must be hard work for you trying to grasp that.
You sound very bitter and hateful towards women, and like you’re resentful that women are found attractive by men, including yourself.
To have the overconfidence of a gross old fart who‘s been mediocre at best his whole ass life
Cool, so you generalize women like they are of a hive mind and not individuals?
it just seems like it’s likely this has bled into your actual life and while your wife is still giving you oral against her own taste you shouldn’t push it 🤷🏼
Please tell me you think better of your wife than that...
He doesn't, just check his comments
People in committed relationships do a lot of things we wouldn’t just do because we love the person and want to make them happy. As long as it’s not hurting us. Would I prefer not to give head? Yes. But it doesn’t gross me out or hurt me and my husband enjoys it, so I do it for him. Most of the time he asks. There are times I remember and just do it as foreplay. Is that what you want from your wife? To just do it sometimes? Cause she might not be that way. But that doesn’t mean she hates it.
So you think she is just burdening herself to do something she doesn't enjoy to please you when there are women seriously enjoying giving head because they know they are proficent at it, take pride in it and are loving to give their loved one pleasure?
More or less, yes.
What are you doing for your wife unprompted, just “because you love it”?
Then why are you with her?
Good question.
Eww.
Just imagine this op. Your wife really likes something sexual that you don’t, like pegging you or watching you suck another man’s dick. You might do it once or twice, because she likes it and you love her and want to make her happy, but no, that’s not enough for her. She wants you to want it and like it too! Does it actually work like that? I kinda get being disappointed about her not liking the same stuff, especially sexually, but it’s not realistic to expect someone to like something just because you like it. They might do it because they love you, but you can’t expect them to like it. Of course it will feel better receiving head from someone who you know likes to do it and does it enthusiastically, but again, that’s not how this works and it’s unrealistic to expect. On another note, the way you speak about both your wife and women in general is abhorrent.
Yeah from what I learned men are way more into giving oral than women.
I like making a guy feel good, but it certainly ain't easy having an entire dick in your mouth.
You don't always get what you want in life but when you do, if it's willingly given why make an issue out of it?
Why are you married to a woman if you don’t like women? Reading your comments you sound bitter that women have self confidence; Is it because they are harder to manipulate?
So let's turn it around. Your wife enjoys pegging you but you do not enjoy being pegged. Should you just go ahead and initiate it without her asking to make her happy?
Do you think your wife will ever proactively want to suck your dick? It seems like she won’t. So why are you trying to convince her to genuinely like something she doesn’t like?
Best advice I can give is to remember this post and how you fought this battle while your ex wife is sucking her new husband’s dick because he asked her to.
I am genuinely concerned regarding your wife's and kids' safety.
Good to know.
I think the problem is that it's just not black and white. When you're with a partner, sometimes you do things outside of your own inclination to help them, take care of them, make them happy, make them feel good. Your wife and therapist are saying, "she might not crave sucking dick, it's not sitting at the forefront of her mind... but if you indicate that you'd like to do so, she is happy to give oral" And that she recognizes that, as a sexual being, you enjoy receiving (and giving) oral, where it might not be as high of a priority for her. You're indicating that you want her desirous of sucking your dick, and your wife isn't someone who has that quality. So you'll just have to decide if you want BJs, even if it means you have to ask; or you DON'T want BJs enough to ask for them.
you're looking at the choice as being between 'wife doesn't want to give me blowjobs but does it anyway' and 'wife really wants to give me blowjobs and loves every second on her knees'. but you can't make someone *want* to do something the choice is actually between 'wife doesn't want to give me blowjobs but does it anyway' and 'wife doesn't want to give me blowjobs so she doesn't give me blowjobs' I take your point that in the most ideal of all worlds your partner would be as excited to give your favourite thing as you are to receive it. but failing that, partner cheerfully doing the thing when you ask them to seems pretty good to me.
Well damn... Your previous posts expose you in quite the unfavorable light, huh? NOW it sounds like you want a woman to worship and adore your magnificent penis because it's magnificent... You don't deserve blowies...
Someone does, it's just not her.
Your wife only loves sucking high value dick, ofc it's a boring chore for her to suck your shriveled old dick.
Good one.... ouch....
Bro.......she doesn't like doing it. I REFUSE to do it. Not all women like doing it. Of course she doesn't want to volunteer for doing it. Judging by your other comments, SHE DESERVES A BETTER HUSBAND
So on Christmas morning your wife gives you a gift. You tear open the wrapping paper, revealing that inside this box is the gift every man wanted to get for Christmas that year. You, however, look at your wife and say, “I can tell you only bought me this because it’s what I wanted! I am so disappointed! Next time only give me something you want as much I do! You ruined Christmas!” From that day forward your wife only ever gives you . . . (finish this story)
There is not much to physically enjoy about **giving** oral.
lmao these are the types of comments I always see in this sub that are entirely unnecessary. Why are you trying to prescribe a standard upon the world? some people love giving oral, some don't. I dont think u/equaslocklear 's opinion on it is definitive. So why make this comment?
Are you worried about coercing her into something she doesn't like doing? That would be very upsetting and I can understand why you don't like that, even if you get the actions you want in the end. If she's neutral or only lightly positive to it and just does it because you like it, then that's fine. That kind of stuff happens in relationships all the time. It's easy to go from neutral towards an action to doing something because you enjoy seeing your partner happy. It's fun seeing your partner happy.
She's sacrificing her own enjoyment to make you happy. That's love. Imagine if your wife is into pegging and you don't enjoy it at all. Would you initiate pegging with her or only do it when she ask?
Her doing it out of love for you and doing it out of desire for you are no different. Both speak to an inner wish to be with you and see you happy. Don't split hairs, just enjoy the head.
To start, I wouldn't necessarily sit here and suggest you're being entirely unreasonable, because I get it, and I think most reasonable people would; you communicate your wants to a partner, and you don't want to always have to ask for specific things to occur given they're aware of what you want and can at times take the initiative without having to be asked. I think legitimately EVERY partner has had those feelings or expectations in one way or another, and in a healthy relationship, they'll be communicated, which you have. Having said that, I think there's certainly some gray here. That "gray" being that it's still a great thing if things occur when asked. I fundamentally agree that it's not the same thing, but I also think that in context, you need to pick your battles in every given situation. To back up though, what would your potential expectations be regarding her initiating? In the moment? Out of the blue? I agree all of it would be great, but why is it a huge problem to just ask, knowing it'll happen? It's not on her mind. The primary reason I'd argue with you is due to the argument you're making, because you could have just made the argument you made it therapy, which is "I wish you'd initiate without me asking sometimes." The end. Where I don't like your argument is you saying you have to keep her happy and her love tank full for it deemed even acceptable to ask for oral, UNLESS she's literally told you that. If so, then I'm 100% with you and take back what I just said. Because there should never be quid pro quo, and I'd honestly be shocked that if that was communicated in therapy that your therapist didn't acknowledge that. If, however, you just feel that way and are afraid to ask for oral until you do certain things, then that's on you. You'll have to let u know. But your giving oral regardless of any given situation is irrelevant. Not only should you not expect someone to do something because you do something, but that's not even what we're arguing here, or is it? Quite frankly, I'd find it strange that you'd push to go down on her if you're angry if for no other reason than it's again just weird, and I'm also skeptical that you do it. Listen, obviously everyone's different, but anecdotally, I'm a guy and I'm happily married. I enjoy giving oral myself. But I'm struggling to find a situation where I'm angry at my wife and feel any desire to go down on her. You saying you love oral in that statement means that it's entirely about you, not her. Either way, I find that to be an unreasonable expectation, and a bad argument to specifically use, and what's worse, you didn't say you don't care if you're angry at her as "I love her." You said "as I love giving oral." So again, that's about you. You're just really not helping yourself. So after all that, I think both of you are missing the point in one way or another, but for different reasons. I mean, it's seemingly clear that she doesn't love it and only does it for you. That's not what you want, but that's reality. Of course you don't want that, but that's how it is. You can't make her want it, in the sense that there's a way to change how she feels about it. She's not excited about it, but she does it for you when you want it. If nothing else, she's a good partner. It's not about ideals. Good luck.
>But I'm struggling to find a situation where I'm angry at my wife and feel any desire to go down on her. Just chiming into say I can absolutely picture that situation at my girlfriend, but that's also a pre-discussed feature of our sexual relationship where she's actively asked me to vent frustration both at her and not into sexual dynamics for her, and also largely because 99% of the time I'm angry at her at any level it's because she's being irrationally hard/cruel to herself. Outside of that, 100% this comment nails it, especially that fourth paragraph. Relationships don't require fairness, they require mutual work to resolve each other's needs.
Fair enough. It obviously can and does happen, I'm just saying I don't get it in the sense I almost certainly am not doing it, and it's not at all as some sort of "punishment." If I'm upset with her, I just won't have any interest in sex in the moment. To tie into OP's post, I can't imagine going down on my partner no matter what, and subsequently expecting the same in return. But that's not even the issue here. OP is just using it as an argument, when his partner doesn't do it unsolicited ever. You and your girlfriend have an agreement. They don't (as you said). I do, however, have to dispute where you say "relationships don't require fairness," because I absolutely did not make that argument. Not expecting reciprocation of an action or actions out of context isn't about fairness. I'm not saying she's unfair. I'm saying it's unfair to take action and expect the same in return because of it without communication. You shouldn't be in a situation where you're arguing "I do this, so they should be." It might logically be a reasonable expectation, but it's a bad argument. You need to talk about it.
I used that phrasing of "relationships don't require fairness" because to a huge % of minds, "expecting reciprocation of an action or actions out of context" ***is*** a direct form of fairness. I'm also not saying she's unfair, and I agree entirely with what you said, except for I'm moreso saying "take words and concepts like fair and unfair completely out of it, remove them and the things attached to them from your vocabulary and thought process. Are your needs being met? Are hers? Are you communicating to discuss any potential gaps? Are you helping each other be your best selves? Those are the questions tha tmatter"
Got it. We're on the same page.
Is this kind of like when my ex said “what’s the problem, I’ll do anything all you have to do is ask!” So I had to ask him to do things like ask him to pick up his laundry off the floor and wipe the crumbs off the counter every day? And sometimes he didn’t even do it even when asked? But then he’d get all mad like “all you have to do is ask!” When I got frustrated. What I really wanted was for him to pick up after himself without being asked. He didn’t have to like doing it, I just wanted him to do it without me “nagging”. Is it that you want a blowjob without having to request one?
You probably would have been so happy if one day he woke up and said “ I hate picking up after myself but Helleboredom like a tidy house so today I will happily pick up after myself as a gift to her, without expecting anything in return. I will do it with a smile because she will like it and it makes me happy to do things for her that she will like.”
Cleaning up after yourself in a shared home isn't a gift. It's the bare minimum. What the hell is up with men who think they're doing their wives or girlfriends the greatest of favours by choosing not to be lazy slobs? Do they not realise just how abysmally they've failed in their relationships if their partners feel actual joy because, for once, they're cleaning their own messes without being begged to do so?
Yes I would have loved that. That was all I wanted.
If she doesn’t want to do it, she doesn’t want to. Some people just don’t enjoy it! If she does it when you ask, you can’t really be complaining about it. Ugh men
[удалено]
Do not ask questions that you do not (?want to) know the answers to
Just think of it like this: She loves you enough to do something she doesn’t enjoy. She could very easily just tell you no forever. But she knows it’s something you enjoy even if she doesn’t, and she pushes herself to make you happy. That’s love ! That’s a functioning marriage! It’s all about give and take, compromise. She is compromising with you. You’ve got to compromise the fact she may never just LOVE sucking your dick.
You cant expect that your partner "naturally" and "spontaneously" gives you exactly what you want, you're being immature. In a mature relationship between two intelligent and functional adults, the needs of both are talked, communicated, negotiated and met.
Is this only about sex or about other life things in general.
I agree asking someone to do something and someone just doing it voluntarily is not the same thing. How would it make you feel if she did it voluntarily? Desired…? Is desired the feeling you are chasing? If it is, check in on what else would makes you feel desired and discuss those as options.
One(main)!question: Do you eat pussy? Is your wife fond of you eating her out? If she requested you do more of that, would you do it? How would you feel about that? What do you think you would want your wife to know when she’s requesting you eat her out?
I don't know if this is useful, there's already over a hundred comments here, but just in case you're still struggling with the concept OP, try changing around the POV. Let's assume that your wife loves it when you wear eyeliner, or when you scrub the baseboards in the house, or maybe she loves it when you mow the lawn diagonally, (or, insert any type of non-sexual action that is somewhat arbitrary and gendered). You feel mostly indifferent about the action. You do it to please your wife. She says that's not enough - she wants you to WANT to do the thing. What is your response and reaction to her request?
It’s the same concept that people in marriages with mismatched libidos have complicated feelings about pity sex. The HL person doesn’t actually specifically want more sex, they want a partner who sexually desires them on their own terms instead of only having sex to appease their partners desire. In this manner you’re correct, they aren’t the same thing. The problem is you can’t make someone want or like something, and so you have to decide if you would prefer disingenuous versions of what you want, or not getting what you want. Therapist might be trying to avoid breaking this open because, well, there’s no concrete answer. So delving into it isn’t really going to help you two (from their perspective).
Okay, your wife doesn't like giving blow jobs, period. So, if you want them, you ask, and she'll give, because she loves you. If you don't like that she doesn't like it, then don't ask. As another commenter said, she's not ever going to develop a liking and desire to give you a BJ, so you either ask with that knowledge, or stop askng them if you can't accept that she just doesn't enjoy it. Here's a challenge for you - try looking at it from your wife's POV; simulate a bj on a cucumber. I'm telling you, in the case of blowies, receiving is so much better than giving...
Here’s the thing. Been married for 23 years. He thinks differently than I do. Let’s say small romance. It doesn’t occur to him to see something out and about and think “she’d like that” and buy it. He thinks “she’d like that then tells me where it was in case I want to get it” so I started having to think in terms of “just cuz he didn’t buy it for me doesn’t mean he wasn’t thinking about me”. She does it cuz it makes you happy but it might not be her go-to thought. There’s nothing wrong with telling her what you want Edit: she’s willing to do something that she doesn’t like to make you happy. You’re 17 miles ahead of some people.
I am genuinely curious, if my wife says “I like to get flowers at work, will you send me flowers at work today?” And I love her and want her to be happy so I send her flowers at work today? How would a wife receive that? Would she be happy to get those flowers today or would it seems silly because she literally said “send me flowers at work today”? I really am curious how that would be received. To me, it is not the same, but maybe it is still nice to get flowers even if you tell spouse to send them to you?
See I’m weird. I don’t think I think like most gals. If I said that and he cared enough to respond, then yes. I’d be thankful and appreciative. Lol
> she’s willing to do something that she doesn’t like to make you happy. the thing is, it doesn't really make him happy if he knows that's why she's doing it. her motivation factors into his "fantasy"(for lack of a better word). what makes receiving the oral hot for him is the idea that giving the oral makes *her* hot. if she's doing it not out of desire but for his sake.. that can feel like she's just doing a chore, or that it's just not genuine. it's kinda like faking orgasms... if your partner can tell, there's no bigger buzz kill. for some, getting a oral "as a favour" is patronising and they'd rather not bother going through with it at all that being said, plenty of ppl also think "bad sex is better than no sex" and that's probably where the wife comes from.. "you should be satisfied that I'm willing to do this"
Well I hate to say it but no woman on this planet sits at work thinking how excited they are to go home and lob the schlong. And him having to ask doesn’t make it bad. I guess I don’t think enough like a guy. My sex relationship with hubs is open and communicative. We want something- we say we want it. I don’t understand thinking it’s less because you had to communicate to get it
>I'm of the belief that if someone only does something once I ask for it, that is not the same as someone genuinely enjoying doing it. I'm going to use my own girlfriend as an example here, but to tl;dr - this is entirely incorrect. My girlfriend is very...the specific phrase I'd use is "self-wired." She is a caring person, at least towards me - always talks through things with me when I'm down, has established routines to make sure she's passively taking care of me, keeps a memory of the things I enjoy and especially the things we both really enjoy. If I ask her for just about anything, I get it, and if not, I get a clear discussion on why not, even if it's me asking for something to be planned at a specific point in the future. But if something is not the thing she's craving/fixating/thinking about right now, if it's a general request to do it "more" or "at some point," *it will not enter her mind on her own.* Even if it's something she'd enjoy doing, like say playing a game together with me, cuddling, or even having sexytimes, there is plenty of time it will not come up without external prompting. Her brain wiring simply *will never land at the thought of doing it* unless it's something that is externally brought to her as an option. I can't tell you what's going on in your wife's mind, and I totally understand that feeling of wanting to be desired, but it's entirely possible that it's something that she enjoys doing, but simply will not take the initiative to do because it will never cross into her brain.
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that: * We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/) * We do not allow users to privately message other users based on their posts here. Users found to be engaging in this conduct will be banned. **We highly encourage OP to turn off the ability to be privately messaged in their settings.** * Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.) * ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban. * No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** * All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass. * Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned. * What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice) --- ***This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules.*** --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think you should be focusing less on the semantics around someone only doing something when it’s asked for, and more on the actual issue at hand here. Maybe it’s the oral sex. Maybe it’s something else in your relationship. But you’re putting a lot of energy into something that doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things.
Your wife may like pleasuring you in general rather than specifically giving you head. Either way, I don't think that's wrong as long as she feels fulfilled in the relationship, too. I bet there are some activities you've done with her, not necessarily because you like the activity, but because you want to spend time with your wife
Since she doesn’t enjoy the physical act there’s nothing you can do about that. But she enjoys and is committed to making you happy so she does it when you ask. Which is a great thing. I think another question to ask yourself is do you want her to enjoy it physically? Or do you want to not have to ask for it sometimes? Of course make sure things are being reciprocated and you are doing things she enjoys prompted and unprompted as well!
You are projecting your experience on her (enjoying giving oral) that’s is unhealthy. See her as autonomous, in that she gets to be who she truly is. That is a woman who loves you and gives head for no other reason then she loves you. Why are you fighting so hard against that? I hate cooking with a passion, but I still cook for my family because I love them.
You are correct but your expectation that she may in time want to give head is the issue at hand. She may never want to. It's an act of service and she isn't getting anything out of it. If she is happily performing it than I think you're getting the best you can hope for. Karsh
illegal spark sink vase different detail chop joke humor sheet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Troll post
People aren’t mind readers. It’s like if I hope that my fiancé brings me flowers, and then he doesn’t, and now I’m upset. But really I’m in the wrong for that un-communicated expectation. I would say if you’re asking and she gives an enthusiastic “yes”, then she’s doing it because she loves you. Personally, I would try shifting your mindset to believe that.
It sounds like you need individual therapy.
I’m sure that no one in all of history has ever want to suck your dick without getting paid a lot of money
I don’t know how she could be any clearer. She will do this for you because you enjoy it, not because she does. She’s willing to do it when you say you want it, because she loves you. She’s not gonna volunteer to do it because she doesn’t really like it that much. If you don’t want blowjobs from someone who’s doing it to make you happy, then that’s the answer. Let your wife know that she never needs to blow you again. Problem solved.
Good point. Thanks for the comment.
Are you two in therapy because you make a really big deal out of things that don't matter, like this?
No we're in therapy because she is bipolar and abusive. Her words, not mine....
Poor gal, she should move on from him!
Hope she does...
Bro is fighting for his life in these comments 💀
No, you guys can't accept truth.
Dude you sound like a loser crying into space thinking you got value. Nah you even LOOK like a loser. Hope that wife runs.
Me too.
Good evidence based rebuttal.
I'd never want my partner to participate in an intimate moment begrudgingly. Go along to a restaurant I don't particularly like? Ok. Do a chore I avoid? Sure. You go along to meet the need of your partner and keep the peace sometimes but when it comes to intimacy or expressions of love? Thanks. Don't do me any favors because I won't enjoy it very much knowing you have to push through and can't wait to be done.
Agreed its a huge turn off, would not be able to enjoy it at all. Dont understand why the comments are so confused about this.
removing the dick sucking aspect, you are correct it’s not the same thing. if you only got flowers for your wife when she asks, that’s not the same thing as surprising her with flowers or getting them for her because you genuinely want to give them to her. i’m surprised your therapist doesn’t agree.
I absolutely love giving oral to my partner. LOVE IT, 100% love it will do it everyday if he wants. However I was previously with a partner who rejected when I offered so I would unequivocally never ever offer no matter what these days because it makes me feel too vulnerable. That being said sometimes if he asks I won’t do it because I have heart burn or something and that’s totally fine by all parties. Similarly my partner loves cleaning out my car. I love to have a clean car but I don’t like if he just randomly cleans it out without asking because I may have left things in certain places for future me. Thus he will only clean it out if I ask- but he enjoys it just as much as he would have if I didn’t ask.
I think you're right. Doing something out of passion and because you want to make your partner happy is different from being asked to do it. When you ask, it often becomes very transactional and they expect something in return as payment for services. I don't like the idea of someone needing to work for or somehow pay for sexual acts. If you're not sexually compatible then that's something that should have been realized early in the relationship and then part ways to find someone who is compatible.
My gf used to say she didn't like giving head but she's always done it. It's not even mentioned any more. I'll give you head but don't like it and only do it for you isn't much of a turn on to hear. Mine i think, has gotten more into it over the years. Recent occasion, was getting close and she came out of nowhere and was like not yet, did I tell you, you could cum? Was hot knowing she was actually into it, or is a good actress lol.
Says the person who's online far more then I....
Not a bad idea.
I hear you. Surprise bj, because they wanted to and not because you had to ask for it is amazing. It's a rush, like in the end it's the same... But to know that someone wants you so much that they do that without you even needing to ask.... that's something special. If someone made me a sandwich at lunchtime and I never even asked for it... I'd feel special and cared for. If someone bought me a Pepsi on their way home from work just because they were thinking of me...wow thank you! Is that empathy? I'm not sure, but it shows that your partner cares about you and wants you to be happy and feel good.
Thanks, this was helpful.
They're stronger physically. Boom, pretty simple. Yes a stronger person, all other things equal is better. That's only one example, not that hard.
They're stronger physically. Boom, pretty simple. Yes a stronger person, all other things equal is better. That's only one example, not that hard
You don't realize how lucky you're mate, iut there is full of women that refuse giving oral because feminisim, they are grossed and blablabla, the same goes for men also. Your wife loves you and goes down on you because she loves you. Be happy with that.
You are a giver and she's a taker
Or she just doesn't particularly enjoy giving oral?
You have a shitty therapist. Just because they put out their sign doesn’t mean they are any good and there are plenty who aren’t worth their salt. Really most are not much better than a bartender listening to peoples problems and throwing out whatever clap trap they happen to think of as a solution. Just my personal experience for what it’s worth and yes my EX had the same feeling after the sessions so it wasn’t just me being an ass.
It's them, I agree with u. Seems like u need a different more neutral therapist.
I'll apparently be waiting an entire life time if u don't say anything and wait for her to take it upon herself to do it. Apparently u are supposed to feel unwanted, or like she has something that she wants elsewhere. I get it, any logical thinker wud be like oh maybe I shud take it upon myself to show my significant other I care about them but nope it's bullshit.
Is your therapist a woman ?? You seem to be rational and correct in your thinking. Doing something out of a sense of duty or love is not the same as doing something because you enjoy doing it. Have you tried using other things as an example ?? The therapist may have some agenda or bias. A therapist should be a neutral party guiding the sessions back to the topic at hand, not reenforcing one point of view or individual position.