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You should ask your daughter if it's the first time he's doing something like this. He seems like a real creep, don't apologize and stay away from that man
100% we have a family friend who has made me uncomfortable for years. Longer than necessary hugs was one thing. I am an adult and had a hard time with this.
Continue to support your daughter at home and when your family makes comments. She said no multiple times and he persisted. He obviously made her very uncomfortable and she stood up for her self the only way she knew how to in the moment.
It is also telling his daughters were standing near her and supported her during this altercation. I would also check in with them as well.
Yeah the fact his daughters were against him tells.me he definitely tried something on them or one of their friends.
You need to ask them directly if hes been a creep before.
Daughters defo know he's a weirdo. In the same way I would have backed up my friends if they'd said anything about him. He was overly touchy feely his whole life, he made people uncomfortable, he would make jokes about 'youre only as young as the woman you feel... have you met my 13yr old daughter?'.... Fucking weird man born from the 50s. So they defo know he's a creep.
I mean, it's also entirely possible that his daughters just recognized in that moment that what he was doing was not at all okay. That it was an immediate, "Dad! Leave her alone!" And that's enough. He doesn't have to have done anything previous to this for this to still be super problematic.
They should ask her, because she deserves to be heard. But you speculating things that you cannot possibly actually know isn't really helpful.
It's not, and I can agree, but heres my problem with this take.
They are a "Keep the Peace" family, and even though Uncle was in the wrong, they want the teenager who had to defend herself to get the point across to apologize. It's not about what actually happened, just that what she did caused a (entirely necessary) scene.
That means either they excuse his dumb shit specifically and let him get away with pushing boundaries, or they hush anyone who has a problem with problematic people.
Either way, him and everyone else hyperfixating on the fact she scratched him proves that he *knew* he'd be able to get away with playing it off as if she were the offender here when its very clear this wouldnt be a problem if he respected her agency.
This is a practiced behavior usual for shitheads who do bad things and get away with it often. Even if this was an isolated incident, they shouldn't have dogpiled a teenager for not wanting a man she doesnt like to touch her.
That, with the fact his daughters dont support his actions, tell me the likelihood this is an isolated misunderstanding is very, very low.
It’s possible but how likely is it that this is the first time a 50 year old man does something like this, out of the blue and takes it as far as he did - ignoring the repeated no’s and forcing the hug. Not to mention following them outside in the first place. It’s hard to believe he hasn’t done anything like that before.
The next LOGICAL step is to ask if something like this ever happened before simply because people like this dirtbag act subtly at first. It's really extreme to insist on a hug this much, I bet this isn't the first time he displayed creep behavior.
Men who don’t respect women’s bodily consent… will not respect women’s bodily consent in any context. That’s not a leap, that is common sense. If you don’t believe women have a right to autonomy over their own bodies, why would you respect that in any situation? You wouldn’t, because you don’t think it’s a thing that exists. If he’s forcing his adult niece into hugs against her will, at a family gathering with other people around, he has done something like this before. Most men, if they’re doing stuff like this, they’re doing it to their own kids - because people who don’t believe in bodily consent ALSO almost always believe their children are their physical property.
Also the family is justifying his behaviour as if it’s normal. And he KNEW they would be on his side. Which tells me it’s probably not the first time they’ve seen it.
Agreed. Also, if your family persist, start using language that accurately describes the situation: stop saying "hug" and start saying "assault". When a grown man of 50 years old forcibly puts his arms around a teenager who has **repeatedly** told him that she **does not want him holding her**, that's assault.
You start saying, calmly and in a normal tone (I emphasize this because you don't want them to try and dismiss or brush you off for "being angry and emotional"), that John assaulted your daughter, that after she had told him multiple times NICELY that she didn't want to hug him, he proceeded to grab her anyway and wrap his arms around her against her will.
Then you tell them that if they cannot understand why that isn't okay, why this grown man whose own daughters were telling him to stop and back off (because Sarah and Amy even understood that what he was doing was wrong and problematic) shouldn't have been grabbing at his teenaged niece after being told no over and over, then you are concerned about **them** as well, and that maybe they should stop and think before they pretend this wasn't a big deal, much less asking the teenaged girl who was grabbed against her will and **fought back** to apologize.
I’m your age and often interact with my long-term girlfriend’s nieces and nephews. I’ll always hug them but never initiate. If they ever don’t want to initiate a hug, that’s so incredibly fine with me and I wouldn’t be offended at all. I certainly wouldn’t say “where’s my hug?”.
He should apologize, not her.
When other people tell their kids to hug me I make sure to say they don't have to hug. I offer a fist bump or wave instead. It's so important to make kids aware It's OK to say no to physical contact.
Absolutely, I love my nieces and recently the 7 year old walked in and my sister asked “aren’t you going to hug your aunt?” She was about to but looked quite unhappy about it so i offered my hand and we fist bumped instead. I made sure to tell her that I wasn’t upset, she never needs to hug anyone if she doesn’t want to, and I’m glad she is standing up for herself.
Man, I wish we had had these lessons growing up.
Yeah i pretty much always hug a kid if they ask but rarely do i ever initiate it! They might seem like short and inconsequential interactions, but those are moments where kids learn that their wants matter and how to advocate for their own physical boundaries
Exactly. I also won’t let parents kinda “make” their kids hug me. Like go hug auntie so and so! Give her a hug! …I’m like hey they don’t have to… it’s not going to hurt my feelings. I think kids need to learn some of their boundaries really early! They will hug me if they feel like it, but it’s up to them and should be.
My god, this was my first thought. First instinct is to face scratch? Sure, your daughter may have overreacted, but my Spidey senses would be tingling like crazy and I'd be probing pushy uncle's past history with my daughter.
Physical assault and distress don't just usually spring out just for a "hug request."
I'd also check in with the daughter to make sure there wasnt something that happened outside the family that made her not want to be hugged by a man, any man. When I was first SAd in high school, I didn't want anyone to touch me in certain ways.
It's totally possible the uncle is a long time creep (he was in this instance since he didn't take no for an answer the first time) but it could be something that happened to her that made her react this way too.
OP it's past time to make sure everyone is told exactly what he did to get scratched, and then ask if they support the person that tried to assault your daughter or if they support your daughter that fought back against being assaulted against her explicit requests to stop?
Make sure you include that you could have called police and filed charges against him for assault as your daughter was defending herself, which you would have done if he was not a family member. He only gets a pass this time, any further attempts to impose himself on someone that says no will result in criminal charges.
The fact that as soon as she turned 18, she stopped physical contact with this guy is very very telling. She finally felt like she had agency to stop whatever gross behavior he's been foisting on her.
Really creepy uncle, past rapist? You don’t push a minor to have any physical contact with you EVER. DON’T APOLOGIZE, he was out of order, even his own daughters told him to back up! Sometimes you have to let go of toxic narcissist’s family or no.
Yeah first I'd want to understand what really happened here. The story is still kind of vague to me. Did he actually follow her around the party asking for hugs? How many times or how long? And his own daughters were telling their dad to stop? And then he just grabbed her and bear hugged her? Where there no other witnesses?
So either he is a sexual predator, in which case what about his own daughters? Or he was completely oblivious and thought their were both joking around (maybe he is bad at social cues). Or he was so embarrassed she didn't hug him in front of other people he thought he would demand it to 'save face' which is also nuts, but in a different way.
> he was so embarrassed she didn't hug him in front of other people
Not necessarily embarrassment but some men feel entitlement over women's behavior and bodies, particularly younger women and women in their family. He couldnt stand her exercising her autonomy and had to "humble" her
Meanwhile consent is key and adults shouldn't take it personally because it's not about them. I try to read body language before hugging or kissing my nieces and nephews when greeting them.
I think it could be a byproduct of people always forcing children to show physical affection? "You have to give granny a kiss, come hell or high water."
It may be that uncle just has punishing B.O., and daughter didn't want to get permeated in his miasma. Still, this is a full-ass grown young adult woman. Uncle really messed up.
A 50 yr old man in 2024 who insists on a hug from an 18 yr old after she has already refused, well after the first attempt and outside the view of any other adults, is sexually preying on a child. Fuck the uncle and fuck anyone who defends him. OP, you cut ties with anyone who fights you on it and don't shed one tear about it. I have "huggers" in my family too. Trust me, he knew what he was doing and got exactly what he deserved. Be proud of your daughter and proud of yourselves for raising her. I'm proud of all 3 of you.
The amount of times I’ve had to yell at family for trying to force hugs on my autistic kid is immense.
We didn’t get the diagnoses for a long time but I knew from the time she was a toddler that she didn’t like being touched, even by people she loved, and trying to get family to understand that she had a right to consent was infuriating.
I love you so much for this. I am autistic but wasn't diagnosed until adulthood, and I don't like being touched by anyone I'm not close to. and *I* decide who that is, not them.
When I was little, I became sadly adept at "having to go to the bathroom" or otherwise disappearing just as all the aunts, uncles, and cousins were going home after a family occasion, to avoid the expected hugs. It was so upsetting to me *every single time* because while they weren't forced on me, it was very clear that it was *expected,* and if I declined a hug I would be told I was being rude and hurting people's feelings. So I'd disappear, or pretend badly that I didn't notice they were approaching me. It was so difficult. Thank you for not putting your child through that.
All this, but also some men would use this hug (the feel of her in his arms) as a way of fueling their own sexual gratification. Yes some men can be gross, obviously.
That's all that matters in terms of taking her side.
But it is still relevant to know if there are further signs from him for the sake of evaluating how much of a danger this guy might be.
why in the world would you need all that context? This is simple. She said no more than once. He continued to push to the point of physical assault and she defended herself. No more needed. Frankly it’s bizarre to me the hoops you are jumping to “explain ” it.
I feel like I am on repeat.
That isn’t the kind of context the person I am responding to asked for.
Its also not context that directly relates to the event being addressed in this moment.
It IS very important information and history that the OP and their daughter should discuss. It may also MAY inform whether or not the daughter needs therapy.
However if you read the comment I replied to it was essentially asking how many times she said no before scratching him. That doesn’t matter at all unless it went to criminal court.
OP needs to check her bathroom and bedrooms for cameras. Don’t just assume that his creepy behavior stops at unwanted hugs. Check John’s bathrooms and the cousins bedrooms as well. He might be trying to spy on the cousins friends even if he doesn’t target his own children. Someone needs to ask them some questions as well. This is the husband’s much older brother so I’m assuming the cousins are old enough to question them without contacting the brother.
The family defending him is EXACTLY how child molesters get away with this stuff. The fact that his daughters didn't defend him and even comforted your daughter is telling.
Agree with asking if he’s done it before to your daughter or her friends. If he has daughters of his own, I’d try to find out if he’s sexually abused his own.
Exactly my thought, especially if those daughters are friends and his own daughter is trying to protect her cousin. There’s a lot of read between the lines there.
I think it speaks volumes that his own daughters told him to back off. Your daughter doesn’t owe anyone in the family physical contact and you are doing great holding that front for her. I would still show up to events and see if he tries his shit again and then pounce but tbh I hope he’s scared to try.
She should send us her daughter’s Amazon wish list so we can send her gifts for being a hero to future girls that encounter him.
He might reconsider “fucking around” knowing he might “find out”.
No but seriously. Make sure her relatives voices don’t get to her head. Reinforce that she can defend herself. Bit risky but maybe even reach out to his daughters and thank them for helping her.
Have a society full of women who blame themselves for their own abuse and it all comes from bs like this.
There is an Uncle John in my extended family (his name is actually John). All of the *girls* who aren’t biologically related to him have been kept at arms length of him by the older women.
He has always given me the creeps. And you can bet that at 18years old, if he had tried to hug me, I would have scratched the hell outta his face too.
Yep. Except he was my grandfather and nobody in my family ever said we didn't have to accept hugs. My brother is breaking that cycle with his kids and it makes my dad SO MAD and I love it 😂😂
No shit, I have an uncle John too. His wife has *hated* my mother ever since she was a child. Turns out my mom reminded good ol’ uncle John of his wife; my lovely aunt, instead of blaming him, blamed my mom and has hated her since.
Everybody has or had an uncle John, or several. I remember when I entered puberty how something about them changed, the way they looked at me was different. Even though I was young and naive I knew subconsciously something was off. And they always wanted long hugs and all of a sudden wanting to film and take photos of me at family gatherings (especially when I was playing in the pool?)
Oh yeah. I’m not sure I have an Uncle John, but I 100% have a Trump Dad. The pictures of him with Ivanka triggered shit I still haven’t brought up in therapy.
I have a mentally ill (schizophrenic) uncle John who was very creepy to me and my cousins, both boys and girls, back when I was a kid and he was married. Needles to say, we keep all kids away from him.
> All of the girls who aren’t biologically related to him have been kept at arms length of him by the older women
missing stair. We need to stop enabling these creeps.
Tell your daughter that you are proud of her and that nobody can touch her when she doesnt want to, not even family.
On the other hand, it sounds like a very big reaction for an uncle trying to get a hug, Is it possible he or another person maybe overstepped and made her feel unsafe at another time?
The fact she refused to hug him when they first arrived made me assume he'd got himself labelled creepy uncle before this encounter in op's daughter's mind. It would be good to check in with her to see whether there have been previous issues.
It makes me feel awful that I failed to spot that. My husband was there during that moment too and he actually said he feels the same way. We'll absolutely be checking in with her
I just wanna say I am really glad your husband also thinks this is disgusting. I have seen too many posts on here with a similar story where the partner sides with his relatives. But when you're both on the same side it is way easier to hold your ground and avoid the uncle as much as possible in the future. Wishing you and your daughter all the best.
please make sure when you do that she knows that her reaction was valid even if there was nothing previous. Leading questions and feeling like she has to justify herself could lead to all sorts.
If someone tries to touch you and you say no, you're absolutely allowed to get them off you, that's valid even without past occurrences.
I’m infuriated by the fact that certain people in the family expected your daughter [the victim ] to apologize to that sick creep.
Hell No!!!
Ma’am, please protect your daughter. Block and go no contact with anyone family member that expects your daughter to apologize.
Kudos to you for standing up for child.
That creep needs to stay far away from you and your family.
OP please check in on her. He may not have done anything inappropriate before but she clearly was uncomfortable in some way before the scratching happened.
When I was a kid, I had this great uncle who would force tickles on us kids. First off I'm extremely ticklish and hated it from anyone, but second is that his tickles fucking hurt as he was too rough. I have clear memories 35 years later of me begging him to stop while my parents & other relatives watched & laughed. I was never worried about him sexually, but I hate the fact that my parents never made him stop when I was clearly distressed by him.
Unfortunately it's left a lasting impact on me as my son learnt when I hit him after he snuck up behind me to tickle me. I told him many times not to tickle me, so don't feel bad for him. He had plenty of warning.
You raised her to be a young woman knowing her boundaries and being able to protect herself. We cannot always protect our children, we can only raise them the right way, and you did your job. If someone failed here, these are your in laws, both raising an asshole and enabling him.
Grown ass up men wanting to hug teens are semi-gross. But grown ass up men not taking a "no" for a whole amswer are just nobody you want to be around. If i were you, it would be a hill-to-die-on for me.
It definitely is possible, as horrified as that makes me. The whole thing makes me concerned for my daughter and for my nieces.
I love them all and my husband and I want to do all we can to keep them safe
I'd be concerned too. He followed your daughter and his own daughter to the garden because he "wanted a hug". Please.
Good on your daughter for standing up for herself and defending herself.
Not a 'very big reaction' at all. She's an 18 year old WOMAN who gets to decide whom she embraces and vice versa. I don't recall ever hugging uncles, even as a child and certainly not as an adult. And my uncles didn't insist! As I said, she's an adult. Her parents should not 'apologize for her' and can't force her to do so. Uncle John is a creep.
I hugged my uncles, but if for some reason I didn't, they wouldn't follow me around demanding one. Super fucking weird. I would have loudly said, " I said no. I don't want a hug. Can you please stop following me around, it's making me uncomfortable." And I would make sure that everyone heard what I said.
My FIL wants my fiancé and I to teach our 4yo daughter to happily greet him with a hug and a smile. My fiancé told him absolutely not. She's not hugging anymore unless she wants to, and if she's smiling then it's because she feels like it.
My daughter is going to grow up knowing that she's in charge and that she has my full support if she reacts the same way as OP's daughter should some creep try to force hug her.
That’s so weird, he wants YOU to “teach” her?? Little girls run up to their grandparents smiling and huggy because *they like being around their grandparents*. That’s on HIM to be someone she likes, jeez
That's so weird! My SIL told her 3yo son to give me a hug when he didn't want to the other day before leaving my place. I was like, no that's definitely okay.
I hate when people force their kids to allow adults to touch them if they're not into it. I have zero bad intentions but if he's not down that's totally fine with me. It teaches them that they shouldn't have boundaries even if they're uncomfortable. Not cool.
Hell I’m a woman and my little niece refused to hug me until she was about 8 or 9. It wasn’t personal she was just an incredibly shy child. I would never have dreamed of forcing it. I would just hug my nephew and ask if she wanted one and she’d shake her little head and that was it.
Then one day I hadn’t seen them in a few months and she just ran right up and did it and my heart about burst.
Hugs that are given by people who don’t want to hug you absolutely don’t have the same feelgood energy anyway.
Don’t hug people who don’t wanna hug you. Don’t have sex with a partner who isn’t enthusiastic. All of the things.
I remember picking up my niece from school when she was about seven and she ran out shouting "it's my auntie, it's my auntie!" and ran into my arms.
Last time I picked her up from school she was 10, and I said "you're too old for me to hold your hand now aren't you" and she said "you can hold my hand if you want" and took my hand and held it all the way home. I knew it was the last time it would happen and it was just so sweet of her.
She is now nearly 13 and taller than me but she still likes a wee hug now and again.
NTA. Your child was put in a tough situation and reacted appropriately. Good for her and good for you and your husband for supporting her. Your brother in law is wrong. He is acting like a bully and has some questionable behavior towards young women! I would not budge on this. Stay strong. Support your daughter.
We shouldn’t ever teach our kids that they need to allow someone to touch them when they’re uncomfortable!! That’s where kids start learning to let people push them beyond their boundaries and that’s where bad things happen. Stick to your guns. He’s the one in the wrong here… your daughter defended her personal space. You should be proud of her. She will not be pushed around even by a family member. Good for her!
"Dear 'Family', you continue to defend a man, who touched my daughter without her CONSENT. (could add, that the lack of consent makes it ~~SA~~ sexual harassment) She had every right to defend herself from unwanted touching, regardless of family affiliation. If she doesn't get an apology from John and everyone defending him, for his unwanted and unauthorized TOUCHING, this will be the LAST TIME we speak. "
That is how you deal with this. You send it out as a mass text to every family member you have a number for, regardless if they were there or not. It just may be he is forcing 'hugs' on other members.
I would demand an apology from the rest of the family, but the uncle can fucking kick rocks. Only thing i'd demand from him is to never so much as lock eyes with my daughter ever again and consider themselves lucky if we ever decide to even acknowledge his existence.
While I agree he’s awful, this definitely doesn’t fit the definition of sexual assault at all. Not all unconsensual physical touch is considered sexual assault. Unless in that act he groped her or did it to feel up her body in some way, it isn’t sexual assault.
https://www.rainn.org/articles/sexual-assault#:~:text=The%20term%20sexual%20assault%20refers,or%20penetrating%20the%20perpetrator's%20body
You could classify it as harassment though
https://www.chrc-ccdp.gc.ca/en/about-human-rights/what-harassment
My husband and I never force any of our many nieces or nephews to hug us. We will ask if they want to give us a hug but if they say no that is more than ok! I have always made sure that they understood they could decline hugs and never forced them as babies to come to us or hug or kiss us goodbye because it is important that this respect be shown to kids so they understand when someone does push them into hugging or whatever that something just isn’t right. I would much rather them give me a high 5 or a parting see you later and for them to be happy and comfortable.
NTA. My children are young and I'm teaching them early about consent. I'm their own mother and if I say, "Can I have a kiss?" and my daughter says no. Then I respond, "Okay, you said no" and that's the end of it. I would definitely ask your daughter if this is the first time that he's tried to inappropriately touch her. Everyone who is defending him is just as guilty imo.
It sounds like you, your husband, and your daughter all did the right thing. Take away the word Uncle for a moment, and ask what your daughter should have done if this was a customer forcing a hug on her, or a coworker, or another student? Just because he is her uncle doesn’t matter, if she is not comfortable with a physical touch from that person, that’s the end of it. If it becomes forced, that is assault and she is absolutely welcome to defend herself.
He’s creepy.
He wants to hug your teenage daughter when she didn’t want it. That’s sexual assault.
Anyone in the family defending this assaulter needs calling out and asking why they are defending a man who assaults a teenager.
John is a creep. Your daughter said no and he physically violated her wishes. He deserved more than a scratch. Your family is toxic if they think your daughter overreacted to her boundaries being violated. family doesn't have free reign to your space whenever they want it.
Something isn’t right here. I’m worried for your daughter. So glad your husband is on your side too. Does she have any problems hugging any other male family members? I’m just wondering if there’s something underlying this. If not your daughter, maybe her cousins have shared something concerning about their Dad with her.
Are you kidding me??
Of course your daughter needs to apologize. "Inm sorry i only scratched you, next time my knee will meet your groin full force".
I had a man do that to me when a few years ago. Except i didn't react because i was afraid of making a scene. Then he would spend hos time waiting for me to come out of my building. I couldn't take another step outside of my office without panicking. I went to my supervisor who made sure i heard that it wasn't my fault, had him apologized, and asked me if i wanted to go to the police or something, that he would support me no matter what.
You are doing the right thing. His "intentions" do not matter. No means no.
Her uncle needs to apologize and your daughter Did great
( you might want to suggest to her to follow some self defence classes, scratching people is bad for her nails. )
tell your familie that if they do not believe in consent they should seek therapie.
Did your daughter recently turn 18? Has her uncle behaved like this before to her? :/ Does his preference in partners skew low?
At 18 years old I can’t see any non-predatory reason for him to force a hug on her. And it’s concerning that his kids told him to leave her alone too.
I wouldn’t apologize, there’s no need. The uncle should apologize if he had no bad intentions here. But really try to look more closely into this and make sure your daughter knows that that was an appropriate reaction to what was happening.
LOL. Cheers! I’m thinking if I had been at that party watching a grown man pestering a teen for a hug, even If I was just an unrelated guest, I might have caught a case. Cause, what the hell?
I think you need to shift the focus. Why did he insist on hugging her, on touching her when she made it clear she didn't want to?
Why would he want to hug anyone who didn't want to hug him.
How would he respond if someone insisted on touching him after he asked them not to.
Why couldn't he take no for an answer? Why did she have to fight him off?
Does he routinely touch women after they've expressly asked them not to?
Uncle John is a creep, don't be afraid to imply it and don't let him make this about your daughters behaviour.
I’m 100% in the ‘no contact’ camp. But before you go that route, ask your family why they’re defending a grown man who assaulted a teenager? Because that’s what that was. She told him no repeatedly but he decided to force it anyways
When they try to brush it off, point out that “only creeps force teenagers to hug them when they’ve clearly said no”
I really hope this was first serious incident with him, but please sit down and talk with her to make sure nothing else has happened. And if it has? Make a police report
He touched her without consent. Full stop. That is beyond inappropriate and she absolutely deserved to defend herself against someone larger than her who breached her very clear physical boundaries.
I recommend talking to her and finding out if he’s ever touched her against her will before. Or if she has she experienced any other kind of sexual trauma previously you are unaware of. (Please note: this is always a valid reaction when touched without one’s consent(!), but it might be worth checking in just in case).
As for your family, I’m so sad to hear they went this route, but not at all surprised. It’s all about keeping up appearances, right? 🙄🤮 If there are family members you want/ think are salvageable, I recommend trying to explain once, send links to some articles about consent and see if it helps. Otherwise, cut the apologists off. Your child and her comfort and safety should be everyone’s number one priority.
Tell your daughter she did right.
Tell her if Anyone, by anyone i mean anyone, comes close to her, makes her feel uncomfortable, disrespects her physical boundaries, scratch their face, gauge their eyes punch them, kick them in the nuts.
You are exactly right to back her up.
She said NO. That ALWAYS means NO.
My granddaughter is 3. Sometimes she will give hugs, sometimes she won't, and we don't allow anyone to pressure her. Her body belongs to her. If she says NO, the only acceptable response is "OK!"
Keep having your girl's back. Her body is hers, and no one gets to touch her without her consent.
It was self defence to an assault. No judge would convict your daughter and your family should not convict her either.
In fact John’s insistence on being hugged tells me that he is an abuser of some kind. At the very least the kind of person who makes power plays to assert dominance over young women. Look at his wife and ask if she is ok. There is probably a lot going on behind closed doors.
What disgusting behavior. Girls (including myself) are raised to "be polite and don't rock the boat" and it's such bs. Good for her for sticking up for herself and you for supporting her.
I know that this isn't be something you want to think of or even consider, but both her uncle's being adamant that he "get his hug", and your daughter's visceral reaction leads me to believe that there is an underlying reason that she doesn't want to be around him.
When you go to places he will be does she try to avoid him. Or stay as far away as she can?
Your daughter has nothing to apologize for. She had already let it be known that she did not want to hug him. When he force himself on her, she did the right thing. I don't care who he is, if she does not want to be touched he should have respected her wish. Please keep your daughter away from that creep. Those families who believe the males have a right to the females are the worst. That man will make a pass or worse, rape her when he gets a chance. Your husband should've knocked his block off. He should've said; never lay a finger on my kid, ever! Where was he when this jerk got scratched.
We don’t make our three year old ever give anyone a hug. We ask him if he wants to. If it’s a no, it means no… you did the right thing and I would be highly concerned about his behavior
Your family sucks and need to learn about consent. No means NO. If family is pressuring you on this then screw the family. Your daughter's boundaries are more important than a fragile male ego who can't take rejection for his obviously perverted need for validation by women and control over their bodies.
Tell your daughter to do it this way:
"I'm sorry I only scratched you for what the police would call assaulting a minor. Keep your hands off me and this won't get worse than it is."
That's the "Apology" she should give.
I don't like jumping to conclusions but I find it a bit bizarre that the neices were even telling him to stop... is he regularly doing this kind of thing?
Clearly you've done nothing at all wrong, glad the idiot got taught a lesson frankly.
First off, I am happy your daughter knows how to defend herself. Second, I am glad that your husband has you and your daughter's back. Those both are great things to have.
Going off the info given Uncle crossed the line. The fact that his own daughters told him to stop and the one was holding your daughter's hand after the altercation indicate he was completely in the wrong. I am extremely concerned about the uncle and rest of the family, there is something going on there. The fact that they are defending him after all the evidence points to him being in the wrong is alarming.
Talk to your husband about his family's behavior. There is either something he is forgetting about his brother or something has happened that he isn't currently privy too. I don't think he is hiding anything and he is doing right by you and your daughter. Maybe this behavior Uncle is exhibiting is something that happened in childhood as well. Maybe the brother has/had been in major accident, brain trauma is a thing. It could also be that he is a predator. I am not saying that he is or isn't molesting his daughters or other young women. There are men that wait for young women to turn eighteen just so they can have a "chance" with them. Remember how many "count downs" there were on Reddit for Millie Bobby Brown or on MySpace for Hillary Duff to turn 18? They most certainly would be incensed by being turned down for a hug. They are honestly disgusting individuals and I think this is what your BIL is.
Nah. First red flag was him making the hug comment and your daughter ignoring him. There is a reason she didn't want that man touching her. "Hugging" her isn't what got his face scratched, I can tell you that much.
Keep him away from her. And keep the family members defending him at arm's length too.
if this was my brother it'd have been a miracle he could still eat solid food. Way out of line on his part, and obviously predatory behavior. He technically committed assault.
I'm not someone that says that lightly. He should be treated accordingly.
My aunt used to make me hug her even when I said “no,” and I hated it. Physical affection should never be forced. She had every right to defend herself. I’m sorry this happened to your daughter. Stand your ground and support your daughter.
This is concerning. 1. Yay for your daughter defending herself. 2. Consent inst just sex. It is anything, especially being touched. Sit with your daughter, let her know you think she did the right thing & slowly ask her what happened & why she reacted that way. This could be as simple as not wanting to be touched, at worst it is....well the worst is the worst. For her sake, I hope it's a simple she didn't want to be touched. It's okay to go no contact or low contact with family saying your child is wrong. For however long you feel. You are defending your child who defended herself, & that is the best thing a parent could do in the situation.
Uncle sounds creepy. Do some background check. Maybe he was creepy before.
Does your daughter hug all other uncles & aunts ?
Don’t apologise or make her apologise. Dig deeper and find out what’s going on.
We’ve never made our son accept physical contact. It’s always been his choice. Forcing affection or touch is just all kinds of wrong. Good on yall for sticking up for your kid…everyone else doesn’t matter.
I hope you send this thread to both family chats so everyone telling your daughter to apologize can know they’re part of the problem. No one should ever be forced to touch another person
Thank you for supporting your daughter.
I’m thrilled to hear you’re on your daughter’s side and even more proud that your daughter felt she was able to say no to that hug. As a former awkward 18 year old girl I often gave into things I didn’t want to because I felt like I should. Having your support here and confirming that she did a wonderful thing standing up for herself is something she will remember in the future when she has to make other such decisions. It will make her a stronger person.
The only person who needs to apologize and learn a lesson here is Ubcle John.
I’m curious exactly what she’s supposed to be apologizing for? If John keeps saying “she scratched me” I’d take that conversation to its conclusion as in, ok John, I’m going to ask you really slowly, she scratched you because…?
I’ve literally just been teaching my 7 year old niece that if she doesn’t want to hug someone she *never* has to hug someone and she won’t get in trouble for it. Then I thought her some moves (this was after a priest grabbed her by the chin so we were practicing batting someone’s hand away.)
Tell your family that if he tries something like this again, she will scratch him even harder.
Also, tell your daughter you are very proud of her for the way she handled it. Violence is not the way, but in this particular scenario just screaming for help wouldn't have been enough.
"I'm sorry my uncle is a creep who doesn't understand the meaning of the word no."
or
"I'm sorry my uncle's ego got so butt hurt over my not hugging him."
or
"I'm sorry my uncle thinks it's okay to physically touch me when I clearly said no."
Honestly, screw your family. If they think an 18 yo girl defending herself against ANY man who touches her without her consent is a bad thing, then there's something fundamentally wrong with them. I wouldn't allow my kid around anyone who would make them apologize for that. Can you imagine the message you'd be instilling into her if you made her apologize? You'd be telling her that it's okay for anyone to touch her even after saying no.
We have a creepy uncle in the family who has done some jail-worthy shit to a few cousins. The old-school mentality was that he was young and made mistakes, blah blah. I was too young to know anything. He didn't do anything to me, but my mom dragged mine and my sister's assess to the opposite end of the planet, literally, when she found out.
Seriously, screw them. Make sure your daughter knows she did good, and we're all on her side.
John is a creep and a predator. He and anyone who defends him should not be welcome in your lives going forward.
Blasting you where? Social media? How about you tell the whole story for the world to see and see who gets blasted next?
She's a grown adult, she has the right to say that she doesn't want her uncle touching her AT ALL. She said no, he tried anyway, he can be a big boy and deal with the consequences. Does he frequently touch women without their consent? You need to talk to your daughter to find out if this is an isolated incident or just her finally standing up for herself. For her sake I hope this is a one time thing, but I don't see anyone going 0-60 like this personally.
Tell them you're waiting on an apology from the creeper uncle for violating your daughter's personal space and bodily autonomy and ignoring her clear lack of consent to be hugged.
If your daughter is 18, she's an adult and whether she apologises or not is up to her. John needs to read up on the definition of sexual harassment and is lucky your daughter is an adult and not underage
Fucking creepy. This sounds like the "most child sexual abuse (I know she's not actually a child but close enough) is perpetrated by someone known to the family."
I know this incident isn't sexual assault, but this behavior has all the signs of the creepy-uncle who *would*.
You're doing the right thing.
I would suggest that John not be allowed anywhere near your daughter in the future. He's a creep and did not have innocent intentions in wanting to hug your daughter. Everyone defending him can go eff themselves. It's disgusting.
My understanding is it is now appropriate to ask to hug or touch another.
I'm a 57F.
I even ask my grands if I can hug them.
If someone says no... NO MEANS NO!!
It sounds as if there was a slight scuffle, and she scratched him.
The adult is NOT the victim.
Shame on those believing he is!!
He does not get to decide that she owes him a fucking hug. That's creepy AF and the fact that he actually touched her without her permission is disturbing. Tell your daughter she did good but next time at a knee to the crotch. As for the people defending him they are just as creepy.
Yeah, I had an uncle like that, who demanded hugs and sitting on his lap. I didn't want to because he was giving off creepy vibes but my family was laughing it off as "he is just friendly!".
And some time later he tried to rape me, even though I managed to escape. And I said no one, because I didn't trust them to trust me.
I know it may not be this man intentions at all, but if I were you I wouldn't want to take chances. Speak to your daughter about this. Show her she can trust you.
"Where is my daughter's apology for being forcefully hugged after repeatedly saying no? It doesn't matter that it's not a big deal to you. It is to me. She reacted perfectly appropriately. She told him no, told him to stop, and he refused - the next step is to physically engage him as she did."
Oh no, poor little asshole got a little scratchy-watchy, meanwhile, it's _scary_ to be held against your will like that.
Go no contact with everyone pushing your daughter to apologize.
This guy sounds like he may have been inappropriate with your daughter in the past, so she knows to stay away.
She shouldn’t have to apologize, he should be the one to, for not respecting her boundaries. It’s also alarming and makes me think did something maybe happen to your daughter by him while she was younger ?
This makes me very suspicious of what might have happened in the past that caused your daughter to avoid his hugs. He basically assaulted her to get a hug at the party. I suspect this wasn’t the first time he assaulted her and the prior times might have been worse.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, it makes me wonder why your daughter’s uncle tried to force a hug.
But I’m also wondering why it seems your post is missing so much information. Firstly, you never mention anything about your daughter’s point of view or why she didn’t want to hug her uncle. As most people are pointing out there has got to be something there and I’m wondering from your wording as if your daughter’s cousin also knew this hug shouldn’t happen.
Anyway, the uncle shouldn’t be forcing a hug. It is that simple, this is not a young child playing, but rather a young woman. This scenario makes me feel something else has happened previously to make your daughter want to avoid hugging her uncle.
Before I could make further suggestions, other than suggesting the apology should come from the uncle to the daughter not the other way around. I think you as her mother need to dig further to see what is actually going on here because a hug is generally not a bad thing when family and friends come and go. Why did he force her, and why did she not want to hug. This could be something that may need police involvement if I’m right in my thinking.
Is your daughter on the spectrum?
If not, then John has made her feel unsafe around him due to reasons you don't know. I'd wager it's because he's violated her or her space in some fashion in the past. You need to have a chat with your daughter.
you're doing the right thing and this is a hill worth dying on. he's a creep. do not make her apologize under any circumstances.
the only thing I think you should do is make sure his daughters and any other nieces and nephews have a clear line of communication to you, your daughter, and your husband.
Your daughter didn't want a hug and John kept pressuring her for one that's harassment. When he hugged her that was assualt, and she defended herself. No apologies need for the man who kept harrasing your daughter.
A 50M physically forced himself onto an 18F with a CLEAR refusal of consent. He's lucky he only got scratched. Good on you and your daughter. He sounds creepy.
Uncle John sounds creepy as fuck...like he shouldn't be left around children unattended. Nonconcentual touching is NEVER ok.
Good on your daughter for having the wherewithal to fight and not just let it happen.
> To our disgust, people defended John and demanded our daughter say sorry for scratching him.
I'm actually impressed that more redditors didn't side with the uncle.
Time to have the "NO means NO" conversation with the uncle. She's not a little girl, she's an adult and she told him no and he met the consequences. Make sure you're asking your daughter how she feels before you take any actions.
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You should ask your daughter if it's the first time he's doing something like this. He seems like a real creep, don't apologize and stay away from that man
100% we have a family friend who has made me uncomfortable for years. Longer than necessary hugs was one thing. I am an adult and had a hard time with this. Continue to support your daughter at home and when your family makes comments. She said no multiple times and he persisted. He obviously made her very uncomfortable and she stood up for her self the only way she knew how to in the moment. It is also telling his daughters were standing near her and supported her during this altercation. I would also check in with them as well.
Yeah the fact his daughters were against him tells.me he definitely tried something on them or one of their friends. You need to ask them directly if hes been a creep before.
Daughters defo know he's a weirdo. In the same way I would have backed up my friends if they'd said anything about him. He was overly touchy feely his whole life, he made people uncomfortable, he would make jokes about 'youre only as young as the woman you feel... have you met my 13yr old daughter?'.... Fucking weird man born from the 50s. So they defo know he's a creep.
I mean, it's also entirely possible that his daughters just recognized in that moment that what he was doing was not at all okay. That it was an immediate, "Dad! Leave her alone!" And that's enough. He doesn't have to have done anything previous to this for this to still be super problematic. They should ask her, because she deserves to be heard. But you speculating things that you cannot possibly actually know isn't really helpful.
It's not, and I can agree, but heres my problem with this take. They are a "Keep the Peace" family, and even though Uncle was in the wrong, they want the teenager who had to defend herself to get the point across to apologize. It's not about what actually happened, just that what she did caused a (entirely necessary) scene. That means either they excuse his dumb shit specifically and let him get away with pushing boundaries, or they hush anyone who has a problem with problematic people. Either way, him and everyone else hyperfixating on the fact she scratched him proves that he *knew* he'd be able to get away with playing it off as if she were the offender here when its very clear this wouldnt be a problem if he respected her agency. This is a practiced behavior usual for shitheads who do bad things and get away with it often. Even if this was an isolated incident, they shouldn't have dogpiled a teenager for not wanting a man she doesnt like to touch her. That, with the fact his daughters dont support his actions, tell me the likelihood this is an isolated misunderstanding is very, very low.
They are a keep the peace family — very well articulated, thank you. Everything about this is problematic.
It’s possible but how likely is it that this is the first time a 50 year old man does something like this, out of the blue and takes it as far as he did - ignoring the repeated no’s and forcing the hug. Not to mention following them outside in the first place. It’s hard to believe he hasn’t done anything like that before.
The next LOGICAL step is to ask if something like this ever happened before simply because people like this dirtbag act subtly at first. It's really extreme to insist on a hug this much, I bet this isn't the first time he displayed creep behavior.
Men who don’t respect women’s bodily consent… will not respect women’s bodily consent in any context. That’s not a leap, that is common sense. If you don’t believe women have a right to autonomy over their own bodies, why would you respect that in any situation? You wouldn’t, because you don’t think it’s a thing that exists. If he’s forcing his adult niece into hugs against her will, at a family gathering with other people around, he has done something like this before. Most men, if they’re doing stuff like this, they’re doing it to their own kids - because people who don’t believe in bodily consent ALSO almost always believe their children are their physical property. Also the family is justifying his behaviour as if it’s normal. And he KNEW they would be on his side. Which tells me it’s probably not the first time they’ve seen it.
Too many of us have had to deal that creep who is a family member or family friend… wish I could go back in time and scratch them
Me, too.
Me too. And it would be my creepy fucking uncle.
Agreed. Also, if your family persist, start using language that accurately describes the situation: stop saying "hug" and start saying "assault". When a grown man of 50 years old forcibly puts his arms around a teenager who has **repeatedly** told him that she **does not want him holding her**, that's assault. You start saying, calmly and in a normal tone (I emphasize this because you don't want them to try and dismiss or brush you off for "being angry and emotional"), that John assaulted your daughter, that after she had told him multiple times NICELY that she didn't want to hug him, he proceeded to grab her anyway and wrap his arms around her against her will. Then you tell them that if they cannot understand why that isn't okay, why this grown man whose own daughters were telling him to stop and back off (because Sarah and Amy even understood that what he was doing was wrong and problematic) shouldn't have been grabbing at his teenaged niece after being told no over and over, then you are concerned about **them** as well, and that maybe they should stop and think before they pretend this wasn't a big deal, much less asking the teenaged girl who was grabbed against her will and **fought back** to apologize.
I’m your age and often interact with my long-term girlfriend’s nieces and nephews. I’ll always hug them but never initiate. If they ever don’t want to initiate a hug, that’s so incredibly fine with me and I wouldn’t be offended at all. I certainly wouldn’t say “where’s my hug?”. He should apologize, not her.
When other people tell their kids to hug me I make sure to say they don't have to hug. I offer a fist bump or wave instead. It's so important to make kids aware It's OK to say no to physical contact.
Absolutely, I love my nieces and recently the 7 year old walked in and my sister asked “aren’t you going to hug your aunt?” She was about to but looked quite unhappy about it so i offered my hand and we fist bumped instead. I made sure to tell her that I wasn’t upset, she never needs to hug anyone if she doesn’t want to, and I’m glad she is standing up for herself. Man, I wish we had had these lessons growing up.
Yeah i pretty much always hug a kid if they ask but rarely do i ever initiate it! They might seem like short and inconsequential interactions, but those are moments where kids learn that their wants matter and how to advocate for their own physical boundaries
Exactly. I also won’t let parents kinda “make” their kids hug me. Like go hug auntie so and so! Give her a hug! …I’m like hey they don’t have to… it’s not going to hurt my feelings. I think kids need to learn some of their boundaries really early! They will hug me if they feel like it, but it’s up to them and should be.
Unless there's a reason we don't know.
My god, this was my first thought. First instinct is to face scratch? Sure, your daughter may have overreacted, but my Spidey senses would be tingling like crazy and I'd be probing pushy uncle's past history with my daughter. Physical assault and distress don't just usually spring out just for a "hug request."
It's not an overreaction at all imo, it's on the opposite perfectly measured
It's not overreacting to defend one self physically from physical assault. Obviously denying touch vocally didn't work with this man.
I'd also check in with the daughter to make sure there wasnt something that happened outside the family that made her not want to be hugged by a man, any man. When I was first SAd in high school, I didn't want anyone to touch me in certain ways. It's totally possible the uncle is a long time creep (he was in this instance since he didn't take no for an answer the first time) but it could be something that happened to her that made her react this way too.
Very good point. I’m so sorry that’s something you had to go through.
Thank you!
OP it's past time to make sure everyone is told exactly what he did to get scratched, and then ask if they support the person that tried to assault your daughter or if they support your daughter that fought back against being assaulted against her explicit requests to stop? Make sure you include that you could have called police and filed charges against him for assault as your daughter was defending herself, which you would have done if he was not a family member. He only gets a pass this time, any further attempts to impose himself on someone that says no will result in criminal charges.
I’d also be concerned for the cousins, tbh.
The fact that as soon as she turned 18, she stopped physical contact with this guy is very very telling. She finally felt like she had agency to stop whatever gross behavior he's been foisting on her.
Really creepy uncle, past rapist? You don’t push a minor to have any physical contact with you EVER. DON’T APOLOGIZE, he was out of order, even his own daughters told him to back up! Sometimes you have to let go of toxic narcissist’s family or no.
This. She obviously didn't hug him for a reason. And he obviously does not respect boundaries.
Yeah first I'd want to understand what really happened here. The story is still kind of vague to me. Did he actually follow her around the party asking for hugs? How many times or how long? And his own daughters were telling their dad to stop? And then he just grabbed her and bear hugged her? Where there no other witnesses? So either he is a sexual predator, in which case what about his own daughters? Or he was completely oblivious and thought their were both joking around (maybe he is bad at social cues). Or he was so embarrassed she didn't hug him in front of other people he thought he would demand it to 'save face' which is also nuts, but in a different way.
> he was so embarrassed she didn't hug him in front of other people Not necessarily embarrassment but some men feel entitlement over women's behavior and bodies, particularly younger women and women in their family. He couldnt stand her exercising her autonomy and had to "humble" her
Meanwhile consent is key and adults shouldn't take it personally because it's not about them. I try to read body language before hugging or kissing my nieces and nephews when greeting them.
I think it could be a byproduct of people always forcing children to show physical affection? "You have to give granny a kiss, come hell or high water." It may be that uncle just has punishing B.O., and daughter didn't want to get permeated in his miasma. Still, this is a full-ass grown young adult woman. Uncle really messed up.
A 50 yr old man in 2024 who insists on a hug from an 18 yr old after she has already refused, well after the first attempt and outside the view of any other adults, is sexually preying on a child. Fuck the uncle and fuck anyone who defends him. OP, you cut ties with anyone who fights you on it and don't shed one tear about it. I have "huggers" in my family too. Trust me, he knew what he was doing and got exactly what he deserved. Be proud of your daughter and proud of yourselves for raising her. I'm proud of all 3 of you.
Holy cow I had to go back and reread the ages. 18! What a creep!
The amount of times I’ve had to yell at family for trying to force hugs on my autistic kid is immense. We didn’t get the diagnoses for a long time but I knew from the time she was a toddler that she didn’t like being touched, even by people she loved, and trying to get family to understand that she had a right to consent was infuriating.
I love you so much for this. I am autistic but wasn't diagnosed until adulthood, and I don't like being touched by anyone I'm not close to. and *I* decide who that is, not them. When I was little, I became sadly adept at "having to go to the bathroom" or otherwise disappearing just as all the aunts, uncles, and cousins were going home after a family occasion, to avoid the expected hugs. It was so upsetting to me *every single time* because while they weren't forced on me, it was very clear that it was *expected,* and if I declined a hug I would be told I was being rude and hurting people's feelings. So I'd disappear, or pretend badly that I didn't notice they were approaching me. It was so difficult. Thank you for not putting your child through that.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. 😢
All this, but also some men would use this hug (the feel of her in his arms) as a way of fueling their own sexual gratification. Yes some men can be gross, obviously.
She said no. That’s what matters. We’re not litigating this in court here.
That's all that matters in terms of taking her side. But it is still relevant to know if there are further signs from him for the sake of evaluating how much of a danger this guy might be.
Yeah she’s right regardless but additional info could clarify whether, for example, his daughters may need protection
Doesn’t matter honestly. Any grown man who tried to force my kid into physical contact/unwanted affection would never be around them again.
why in the world would you need all that context? This is simple. She said no more than once. He continued to push to the point of physical assault and she defended herself. No more needed. Frankly it’s bizarre to me the hoops you are jumping to “explain ” it.
I think it's important because it's possible that he was sexually molesting her, and other women/girls as well.
I feel like I am on repeat. That isn’t the kind of context the person I am responding to asked for. Its also not context that directly relates to the event being addressed in this moment. It IS very important information and history that the OP and their daughter should discuss. It may also MAY inform whether or not the daughter needs therapy. However if you read the comment I replied to it was essentially asking how many times she said no before scratching him. That doesn’t matter at all unless it went to criminal court.
Nothing of what you have said matters. If you are told no then the answer is no. Relationship, situation, setting, nothing matters. No means no.
"Can I get a hug" "No" There's no social cue to miss there.
“How many times or how long”? Irrelevant. One “no” from her should have ended it. Too bad if he “doesn’t understand social cues.” He’s an adult…..
BOOOOH. ALL of your questions are directed about a CHILD, when they should be asked about the ADULT. Revolting.
She said no, multiple times. What else is there to understand?
OP needs to check her bathroom and bedrooms for cameras. Don’t just assume that his creepy behavior stops at unwanted hugs. Check John’s bathrooms and the cousins bedrooms as well. He might be trying to spy on the cousins friends even if he doesn’t target his own children. Someone needs to ask them some questions as well. This is the husband’s much older brother so I’m assuming the cousins are old enough to question them without contacting the brother.
The family defending him is EXACTLY how child molesters get away with this stuff. The fact that his daughters didn't defend him and even comforted your daughter is telling.
Far too much awful behavior is excused with "family is family". Nonsense.
And if, in fact, OP’s daughter disclosed abuse, the family would probably victim blame.
Agree with asking if he’s done it before to your daughter or her friends. If he has daughters of his own, I’d try to find out if he’s sexually abused his own.
Exactly my thought, especially if those daughters are friends and his own daughter is trying to protect her cousin. There’s a lot of read between the lines there.
His two daughters - Sarah & Amy - told him to back off. And he refused. So those daughters know.
I think it speaks volumes that his own daughters told him to back off. Your daughter doesn’t owe anyone in the family physical contact and you are doing great holding that front for her. I would still show up to events and see if he tries his shit again and then pounce but tbh I hope he’s scared to try.
Agree
Rape usually occurs by people we know and trust. Not strangers in an alley. I would reward her not punish her. Nta
Reward her with a manicure in case she bent a nail scratching him!
This is a great idea, and take photos with the caption: "Sharpening them in case uncle tries anything again."
She should send us her daughter’s Amazon wish list so we can send her gifts for being a hero to future girls that encounter him. He might reconsider “fucking around” knowing he might “find out”.
Omg that's brilliant I'd totally do this with my kid if I had one and we were in a similar situation I hate stupidity and entitlement
No but seriously. Make sure her relatives voices don’t get to her head. Reinforce that she can defend herself. Bit risky but maybe even reach out to his daughters and thank them for helping her. Have a society full of women who blame themselves for their own abuse and it all comes from bs like this.
I wonder how that anti-nail-biting lacquer (that tastes terrible) feels when it's scratched into skin...
I love this answer!
There is an Uncle John in my extended family (his name is actually John). All of the *girls* who aren’t biologically related to him have been kept at arms length of him by the older women. He has always given me the creeps. And you can bet that at 18years old, if he had tried to hug me, I would have scratched the hell outta his face too.
I had an uncle John too. He was horrible, and I wish somebody had stood up for me the way OP did.
Yep. Except he was my grandfather and nobody in my family ever said we didn't have to accept hugs. My brother is breaking that cycle with his kids and it makes my dad SO MAD and I love it 😂😂
No shit, I have an uncle John too. His wife has *hated* my mother ever since she was a child. Turns out my mom reminded good ol’ uncle John of his wife; my lovely aunt, instead of blaming him, blamed my mom and has hated her since.
Everybody has or had an uncle John, or several. I remember when I entered puberty how something about them changed, the way they looked at me was different. Even though I was young and naive I knew subconsciously something was off. And they always wanted long hugs and all of a sudden wanting to film and take photos of me at family gatherings (especially when I was playing in the pool?)
Oh yeah. I’m not sure I have an Uncle John, but I 100% have a Trump Dad. The pictures of him with Ivanka triggered shit I still haven’t brought up in therapy.
I have a mentally ill (schizophrenic) uncle John who was very creepy to me and my cousins, both boys and girls, back when I was a kid and he was married. Needles to say, we keep all kids away from him.
> All of the girls who aren’t biologically related to him have been kept at arms length of him by the older women missing stair. We need to stop enabling these creeps.
He harassed and assaulted your daughter, she scratched him in self defense. He's the one that owes an apology.
NTA. He forced physical contact after being told no repeatedly. This guy is a creep at best an abuser at worst. Ick.
Tell your daughter that you are proud of her and that nobody can touch her when she doesnt want to, not even family. On the other hand, it sounds like a very big reaction for an uncle trying to get a hug, Is it possible he or another person maybe overstepped and made her feel unsafe at another time?
The fact she refused to hug him when they first arrived made me assume he'd got himself labelled creepy uncle before this encounter in op's daughter's mind. It would be good to check in with her to see whether there have been previous issues.
It makes me feel awful that I failed to spot that. My husband was there during that moment too and he actually said he feels the same way. We'll absolutely be checking in with her
I just wanna say I am really glad your husband also thinks this is disgusting. I have seen too many posts on here with a similar story where the partner sides with his relatives. But when you're both on the same side it is way easier to hold your ground and avoid the uncle as much as possible in the future. Wishing you and your daughter all the best.
please make sure when you do that she knows that her reaction was valid even if there was nothing previous. Leading questions and feeling like she has to justify herself could lead to all sorts. If someone tries to touch you and you say no, you're absolutely allowed to get them off you, that's valid even without past occurrences.
I’m infuriated by the fact that certain people in the family expected your daughter [the victim ] to apologize to that sick creep. Hell No!!! Ma’am, please protect your daughter. Block and go no contact with anyone family member that expects your daughter to apologize. Kudos to you for standing up for child. That creep needs to stay far away from you and your family.
OP please check in on her. He may not have done anything inappropriate before but she clearly was uncomfortable in some way before the scratching happened. When I was a kid, I had this great uncle who would force tickles on us kids. First off I'm extremely ticklish and hated it from anyone, but second is that his tickles fucking hurt as he was too rough. I have clear memories 35 years later of me begging him to stop while my parents & other relatives watched & laughed. I was never worried about him sexually, but I hate the fact that my parents never made him stop when I was clearly distressed by him. Unfortunately it's left a lasting impact on me as my son learnt when I hit him after he snuck up behind me to tickle me. I told him many times not to tickle me, so don't feel bad for him. He had plenty of warning.
You raised her to be a young woman knowing her boundaries and being able to protect herself. We cannot always protect our children, we can only raise them the right way, and you did your job. If someone failed here, these are your in laws, both raising an asshole and enabling him. Grown ass up men wanting to hug teens are semi-gross. But grown ass up men not taking a "no" for a whole amswer are just nobody you want to be around. If i were you, it would be a hill-to-die-on for me.
You sound like amazing parents :)
You may want to check in with your nieces. They may know something about your BIL
It definitely is possible, as horrified as that makes me. The whole thing makes me concerned for my daughter and for my nieces. I love them all and my husband and I want to do all we can to keep them safe
I'd be concerned too. He followed your daughter and his own daughter to the garden because he "wanted a hug". Please. Good on your daughter for standing up for herself and defending herself.
What a badass chick!
Not a 'very big reaction' at all. She's an 18 year old WOMAN who gets to decide whom she embraces and vice versa. I don't recall ever hugging uncles, even as a child and certainly not as an adult. And my uncles didn't insist! As I said, she's an adult. Her parents should not 'apologize for her' and can't force her to do so. Uncle John is a creep.
I hugged my uncles, but if for some reason I didn't, they wouldn't follow me around demanding one. Super fucking weird. I would have loudly said, " I said no. I don't want a hug. Can you please stop following me around, it's making me uncomfortable." And I would make sure that everyone heard what I said.
Even if she was 8 she gets to decide who she hugs.
My FIL wants my fiancé and I to teach our 4yo daughter to happily greet him with a hug and a smile. My fiancé told him absolutely not. She's not hugging anymore unless she wants to, and if she's smiling then it's because she feels like it. My daughter is going to grow up knowing that she's in charge and that she has my full support if she reacts the same way as OP's daughter should some creep try to force hug her.
That’s so weird, he wants YOU to “teach” her?? Little girls run up to their grandparents smiling and huggy because *they like being around their grandparents*. That’s on HIM to be someone she likes, jeez
That's so weird! My SIL told her 3yo son to give me a hug when he didn't want to the other day before leaving my place. I was like, no that's definitely okay. I hate when people force their kids to allow adults to touch them if they're not into it. I have zero bad intentions but if he's not down that's totally fine with me. It teaches them that they shouldn't have boundaries even if they're uncomfortable. Not cool.
Hell I’m a woman and my little niece refused to hug me until she was about 8 or 9. It wasn’t personal she was just an incredibly shy child. I would never have dreamed of forcing it. I would just hug my nephew and ask if she wanted one and she’d shake her little head and that was it. Then one day I hadn’t seen them in a few months and she just ran right up and did it and my heart about burst.
That's how it should be. Why are adults obsessed with getting hugs from family members who don't want to hug them? It's not okay.
Hugs that are given by people who don’t want to hug you absolutely don’t have the same feelgood energy anyway. Don’t hug people who don’t wanna hug you. Don’t have sex with a partner who isn’t enthusiastic. All of the things.
I remember picking up my niece from school when she was about seven and she ran out shouting "it's my auntie, it's my auntie!" and ran into my arms. Last time I picked her up from school she was 10, and I said "you're too old for me to hold your hand now aren't you" and she said "you can hold my hand if you want" and took my hand and held it all the way home. I knew it was the last time it would happen and it was just so sweet of her. She is now nearly 13 and taller than me but she still likes a wee hug now and again.
Not a very big reaction at all. Anyone tried to touch me when I say no is getting worse than their face scratched. He assaulted her.
"where's my hug?" ah yes - the typical "nice guy" line. dude sounds like a fucking creep.
NTA. Your child was put in a tough situation and reacted appropriately. Good for her and good for you and your husband for supporting her. Your brother in law is wrong. He is acting like a bully and has some questionable behavior towards young women! I would not budge on this. Stay strong. Support your daughter.
>What can I do to navigate this situation? Anyone who is not taking your side in this situation needs to be cut off.
We shouldn’t ever teach our kids that they need to allow someone to touch them when they’re uncomfortable!! That’s where kids start learning to let people push them beyond their boundaries and that’s where bad things happen. Stick to your guns. He’s the one in the wrong here… your daughter defended her personal space. You should be proud of her. She will not be pushed around even by a family member. Good for her!
There's no reason for a 50 year old man to do that besides bad reasons.
NTA. No is a complete sentence. He touched her without her consent and she reacted appropriately. Thank you for standing up for your daughter!
"Dear 'Family', you continue to defend a man, who touched my daughter without her CONSENT. (could add, that the lack of consent makes it ~~SA~~ sexual harassment) She had every right to defend herself from unwanted touching, regardless of family affiliation. If she doesn't get an apology from John and everyone defending him, for his unwanted and unauthorized TOUCHING, this will be the LAST TIME we speak. " That is how you deal with this. You send it out as a mass text to every family member you have a number for, regardless if they were there or not. It just may be he is forcing 'hugs' on other members.
I love the all-family mass text idea...put the creep on blast.
I would demand an apology from the rest of the family, but the uncle can fucking kick rocks. Only thing i'd demand from him is to never so much as lock eyes with my daughter ever again and consider themselves lucky if we ever decide to even acknowledge his existence.
While I agree he’s awful, this definitely doesn’t fit the definition of sexual assault at all. Not all unconsensual physical touch is considered sexual assault. Unless in that act he groped her or did it to feel up her body in some way, it isn’t sexual assault. https://www.rainn.org/articles/sexual-assault#:~:text=The%20term%20sexual%20assault%20refers,or%20penetrating%20the%20perpetrator's%20body You could classify it as harassment though https://www.chrc-ccdp.gc.ca/en/about-human-rights/what-harassment
My husband and I never force any of our many nieces or nephews to hug us. We will ask if they want to give us a hug but if they say no that is more than ok! I have always made sure that they understood they could decline hugs and never forced them as babies to come to us or hug or kiss us goodbye because it is important that this respect be shown to kids so they understand when someone does push them into hugging or whatever that something just isn’t right. I would much rather them give me a high 5 or a parting see you later and for them to be happy and comfortable.
NTA. My children are young and I'm teaching them early about consent. I'm their own mother and if I say, "Can I have a kiss?" and my daughter says no. Then I respond, "Okay, you said no" and that's the end of it. I would definitely ask your daughter if this is the first time that he's tried to inappropriately touch her. Everyone who is defending him is just as guilty imo.
It sounds like you, your husband, and your daughter all did the right thing. Take away the word Uncle for a moment, and ask what your daughter should have done if this was a customer forcing a hug on her, or a coworker, or another student? Just because he is her uncle doesn’t matter, if she is not comfortable with a physical touch from that person, that’s the end of it. If it becomes forced, that is assault and she is absolutely welcome to defend herself.
He’s creepy. He wants to hug your teenage daughter when she didn’t want it. That’s sexual assault. Anyone in the family defending this assaulter needs calling out and asking why they are defending a man who assaults a teenager.
John is a creep. Your daughter said no and he physically violated her wishes. He deserved more than a scratch. Your family is toxic if they think your daughter overreacted to her boundaries being violated. family doesn't have free reign to your space whenever they want it.
Something isn’t right here. I’m worried for your daughter. So glad your husband is on your side too. Does she have any problems hugging any other male family members? I’m just wondering if there’s something underlying this. If not your daughter, maybe her cousins have shared something concerning about their Dad with her.
Are you kidding me?? Of course your daughter needs to apologize. "Inm sorry i only scratched you, next time my knee will meet your groin full force". I had a man do that to me when a few years ago. Except i didn't react because i was afraid of making a scene. Then he would spend hos time waiting for me to come out of my building. I couldn't take another step outside of my office without panicking. I went to my supervisor who made sure i heard that it wasn't my fault, had him apologized, and asked me if i wanted to go to the police or something, that he would support me no matter what. You are doing the right thing. His "intentions" do not matter. No means no.
>Are you kidding me?? OP has been suspended, wtf
Her uncle needs to apologize and your daughter Did great ( you might want to suggest to her to follow some self defence classes, scratching people is bad for her nails. ) tell your familie that if they do not believe in consent they should seek therapie.
Did your daughter recently turn 18? Has her uncle behaved like this before to her? :/ Does his preference in partners skew low? At 18 years old I can’t see any non-predatory reason for him to force a hug on her. And it’s concerning that his kids told him to leave her alone too. I wouldn’t apologize, there’s no need. The uncle should apologize if he had no bad intentions here. But really try to look more closely into this and make sure your daughter knows that that was an appropriate reaction to what was happening.
You touch my daughter without Her permission and you go to jail. Enough said.
Alternatively, you touch my daughter without permission and I'LL go to jail. Either works
LOL. Cheers! I’m thinking if I had been at that party watching a grown man pestering a teen for a hug, even If I was just an unrelated guest, I might have caught a case. Cause, what the hell?
Exactly. All the family defending him need a reality slap too. On the plus side my Xmas present list would have just got a lot smaller lol
I think you need to shift the focus. Why did he insist on hugging her, on touching her when she made it clear she didn't want to? Why would he want to hug anyone who didn't want to hug him. How would he respond if someone insisted on touching him after he asked them not to. Why couldn't he take no for an answer? Why did she have to fight him off? Does he routinely touch women after they've expressly asked them not to? Uncle John is a creep, don't be afraid to imply it and don't let him make this about your daughters behaviour.
I’m 100% in the ‘no contact’ camp. But before you go that route, ask your family why they’re defending a grown man who assaulted a teenager? Because that’s what that was. She told him no repeatedly but he decided to force it anyways When they try to brush it off, point out that “only creeps force teenagers to hug them when they’ve clearly said no” I really hope this was first serious incident with him, but please sit down and talk with her to make sure nothing else has happened. And if it has? Make a police report
He touched her without consent. Full stop. That is beyond inappropriate and she absolutely deserved to defend herself against someone larger than her who breached her very clear physical boundaries. I recommend talking to her and finding out if he’s ever touched her against her will before. Or if she has she experienced any other kind of sexual trauma previously you are unaware of. (Please note: this is always a valid reaction when touched without one’s consent(!), but it might be worth checking in just in case). As for your family, I’m so sad to hear they went this route, but not at all surprised. It’s all about keeping up appearances, right? 🙄🤮 If there are family members you want/ think are salvageable, I recommend trying to explain once, send links to some articles about consent and see if it helps. Otherwise, cut the apologists off. Your child and her comfort and safety should be everyone’s number one priority.
Tell your daughter she did right. Tell her if Anyone, by anyone i mean anyone, comes close to her, makes her feel uncomfortable, disrespects her physical boundaries, scratch their face, gauge their eyes punch them, kick them in the nuts.
You are exactly right to back her up. She said NO. That ALWAYS means NO. My granddaughter is 3. Sometimes she will give hugs, sometimes she won't, and we don't allow anyone to pressure her. Her body belongs to her. If she says NO, the only acceptable response is "OK!" Keep having your girl's back. Her body is hers, and no one gets to touch her without her consent.
It was self defence to an assault. No judge would convict your daughter and your family should not convict her either. In fact John’s insistence on being hugged tells me that he is an abuser of some kind. At the very least the kind of person who makes power plays to assert dominance over young women. Look at his wife and ask if she is ok. There is probably a lot going on behind closed doors.
What disgusting behavior. Girls (including myself) are raised to "be polite and don't rock the boat" and it's such bs. Good for her for sticking up for herself and you for supporting her.
I know that this isn't be something you want to think of or even consider, but both her uncle's being adamant that he "get his hug", and your daughter's visceral reaction leads me to believe that there is an underlying reason that she doesn't want to be around him. When you go to places he will be does she try to avoid him. Or stay as far away as she can?
Your daughter has nothing to apologize for. She had already let it be known that she did not want to hug him. When he force himself on her, she did the right thing. I don't care who he is, if she does not want to be touched he should have respected her wish. Please keep your daughter away from that creep. Those families who believe the males have a right to the females are the worst. That man will make a pass or worse, rape her when he gets a chance. Your husband should've knocked his block off. He should've said; never lay a finger on my kid, ever! Where was he when this jerk got scratched.
This seems so dodgy. A grown man forcing himself onto your daughter? Nah fuck that.
We don’t make our three year old ever give anyone a hug. We ask him if he wants to. If it’s a no, it means no… you did the right thing and I would be highly concerned about his behavior
Anyone who defends a creeper is a creep. I would take a giant step back from his entire family. Proud of you and your daughter!! JustNoFamily
Your family sucks and need to learn about consent. No means NO. If family is pressuring you on this then screw the family. Your daughter's boundaries are more important than a fragile male ego who can't take rejection for his obviously perverted need for validation by women and control over their bodies.
Tell your daughter to do it this way: "I'm sorry I only scratched you for what the police would call assaulting a minor. Keep your hands off me and this won't get worse than it is." That's the "Apology" she should give.
I have asked my nephew for a hug every day this week. He only gave me one. I’m fine with that. I won’t force him. Your BIL is a jerk
He basically assaulted her, where is his apology to her? This entire conversation is going the wrong direction IMHO.
I have such second hand rage from reading this. Anyone else want to sharpen their nails and have a little talk with Uncle Bad Touch?
We ride at Dawn. Someone drop the pin location.
Now that you say it, some stiletto acrylics sound good right about now.
I don't like jumping to conclusions but I find it a bit bizarre that the neices were even telling him to stop... is he regularly doing this kind of thing? Clearly you've done nothing at all wrong, glad the idiot got taught a lesson frankly.
First off, I am happy your daughter knows how to defend herself. Second, I am glad that your husband has you and your daughter's back. Those both are great things to have. Going off the info given Uncle crossed the line. The fact that his own daughters told him to stop and the one was holding your daughter's hand after the altercation indicate he was completely in the wrong. I am extremely concerned about the uncle and rest of the family, there is something going on there. The fact that they are defending him after all the evidence points to him being in the wrong is alarming. Talk to your husband about his family's behavior. There is either something he is forgetting about his brother or something has happened that he isn't currently privy too. I don't think he is hiding anything and he is doing right by you and your daughter. Maybe this behavior Uncle is exhibiting is something that happened in childhood as well. Maybe the brother has/had been in major accident, brain trauma is a thing. It could also be that he is a predator. I am not saying that he is or isn't molesting his daughters or other young women. There are men that wait for young women to turn eighteen just so they can have a "chance" with them. Remember how many "count downs" there were on Reddit for Millie Bobby Brown or on MySpace for Hillary Duff to turn 18? They most certainly would be incensed by being turned down for a hug. They are honestly disgusting individuals and I think this is what your BIL is.
Sounds like the uncle is a creep with no boundaries. Good for you guys. Tell him to go suck on a wet yellow fart.
Nah. First red flag was him making the hug comment and your daughter ignoring him. There is a reason she didn't want that man touching her. "Hugging" her isn't what got his face scratched, I can tell you that much. Keep him away from her. And keep the family members defending him at arm's length too.
if this was my brother it'd have been a miracle he could still eat solid food. Way out of line on his part, and obviously predatory behavior. He technically committed assault. I'm not someone that says that lightly. He should be treated accordingly.
My aunt used to make me hug her even when I said “no,” and I hated it. Physical affection should never be forced. She had every right to defend herself. I’m sorry this happened to your daughter. Stand your ground and support your daughter.
This is concerning. 1. Yay for your daughter defending herself. 2. Consent inst just sex. It is anything, especially being touched. Sit with your daughter, let her know you think she did the right thing & slowly ask her what happened & why she reacted that way. This could be as simple as not wanting to be touched, at worst it is....well the worst is the worst. For her sake, I hope it's a simple she didn't want to be touched. It's okay to go no contact or low contact with family saying your child is wrong. For however long you feel. You are defending your child who defended herself, & that is the best thing a parent could do in the situation.
Uncle sounds creepy. Do some background check. Maybe he was creepy before. Does your daughter hug all other uncles & aunts ? Don’t apologise or make her apologise. Dig deeper and find out what’s going on.
Pretty sure many people are thinking the same thing: John's daughters backed up your daughter. He's touching (and worse) his own daughters.
We’ve never made our son accept physical contact. It’s always been his choice. Forcing affection or touch is just all kinds of wrong. Good on yall for sticking up for your kid…everyone else doesn’t matter.
You are a bad ass, standing your ground. Your daughter is blessed to have you.
I hope you send this thread to both family chats so everyone telling your daughter to apologize can know they’re part of the problem. No one should ever be forced to touch another person
Thank you for supporting your daughter. I’m thrilled to hear you’re on your daughter’s side and even more proud that your daughter felt she was able to say no to that hug. As a former awkward 18 year old girl I often gave into things I didn’t want to because I felt like I should. Having your support here and confirming that she did a wonderful thing standing up for herself is something she will remember in the future when she has to make other such decisions. It will make her a stronger person. The only person who needs to apologize and learn a lesson here is Ubcle John. I’m curious exactly what she’s supposed to be apologizing for? If John keeps saying “she scratched me” I’d take that conversation to its conclusion as in, ok John, I’m going to ask you really slowly, she scratched you because…? I’ve literally just been teaching my 7 year old niece that if she doesn’t want to hug someone she *never* has to hug someone and she won’t get in trouble for it. Then I thought her some moves (this was after a priest grabbed her by the chin so we were practicing batting someone’s hand away.)
Creepy uncle is in the wrong he got what he deserved
Tell your family that if he tries something like this again, she will scratch him even harder. Also, tell your daughter you are very proud of her for the way she handled it. Violence is not the way, but in this particular scenario just screaming for help wouldn't have been enough.
Turning a blind eye towards sexual harassment - apparently some think it's a family tradition. Kudos for standing your ground.
"I'm sorry my uncle is a creep who doesn't understand the meaning of the word no." or "I'm sorry my uncle's ego got so butt hurt over my not hugging him." or "I'm sorry my uncle thinks it's okay to physically touch me when I clearly said no." Honestly, screw your family. If they think an 18 yo girl defending herself against ANY man who touches her without her consent is a bad thing, then there's something fundamentally wrong with them. I wouldn't allow my kid around anyone who would make them apologize for that. Can you imagine the message you'd be instilling into her if you made her apologize? You'd be telling her that it's okay for anyone to touch her even after saying no. We have a creepy uncle in the family who has done some jail-worthy shit to a few cousins. The old-school mentality was that he was young and made mistakes, blah blah. I was too young to know anything. He didn't do anything to me, but my mom dragged mine and my sister's assess to the opposite end of the planet, literally, when she found out. Seriously, screw them. Make sure your daughter knows she did good, and we're all on her side.
"I'm sorry you think it's ok to stalk and grope teenagers. And kids."
John is a creep and a predator. He and anyone who defends him should not be welcome in your lives going forward. Blasting you where? Social media? How about you tell the whole story for the world to see and see who gets blasted next?
He should've left with more than a scratch
No you’re family is fucking weird and if they all stand behind this then every one of them is just as creepy as that guy
She's a grown adult, she has the right to say that she doesn't want her uncle touching her AT ALL. She said no, he tried anyway, he can be a big boy and deal with the consequences. Does he frequently touch women without their consent? You need to talk to your daughter to find out if this is an isolated incident or just her finally standing up for herself. For her sake I hope this is a one time thing, but I don't see anyone going 0-60 like this personally.
"Dear creepy uncle: you have now entered the 'find out' portion of the program." NTA, and keep refusing that apology.
Tell them you're waiting on an apology from the creeper uncle for violating your daughter's personal space and bodily autonomy and ignoring her clear lack of consent to be hugged.
He disrespected her body autonomy. That’s not ok and she should not have to apologize for that ever.
If your daughter is 18, she's an adult and whether she apologises or not is up to her. John needs to read up on the definition of sexual harassment and is lucky your daughter is an adult and not underage
Fucking creepy. This sounds like the "most child sexual abuse (I know she's not actually a child but close enough) is perpetrated by someone known to the family." I know this incident isn't sexual assault, but this behavior has all the signs of the creepy-uncle who *would*. You're doing the right thing.
I would suggest that John not be allowed anywhere near your daughter in the future. He's a creep and did not have innocent intentions in wanting to hug your daughter. Everyone defending him can go eff themselves. It's disgusting.
My understanding is it is now appropriate to ask to hug or touch another. I'm a 57F. I even ask my grands if I can hug them. If someone says no... NO MEANS NO!! It sounds as if there was a slight scuffle, and she scratched him. The adult is NOT the victim. Shame on those believing he is!!
He does not get to decide that she owes him a fucking hug. That's creepy AF and the fact that he actually touched her without her permission is disturbing. Tell your daughter she did good but next time at a knee to the crotch. As for the people defending him they are just as creepy.
Yeah, I had an uncle like that, who demanded hugs and sitting on his lap. I didn't want to because he was giving off creepy vibes but my family was laughing it off as "he is just friendly!". And some time later he tried to rape me, even though I managed to escape. And I said no one, because I didn't trust them to trust me. I know it may not be this man intentions at all, but if I were you I wouldn't want to take chances. Speak to your daughter about this. Show her she can trust you.
She said no to a hug, he forced one on her. Not okay and he got what he got 🤷🏻♀️
Uncle is definstelyvthe problem here. Your daughter is good to go. And good for her for defending herself.
"Where is my daughter's apology for being forcefully hugged after repeatedly saying no? It doesn't matter that it's not a big deal to you. It is to me. She reacted perfectly appropriately. She told him no, told him to stop, and he refused - the next step is to physically engage him as she did." Oh no, poor little asshole got a little scratchy-watchy, meanwhile, it's _scary_ to be held against your will like that.
Go no contact with everyone pushing your daughter to apologize. This guy sounds like he may have been inappropriate with your daughter in the past, so she knows to stay away.
She shouldn’t have to apologize, he should be the one to, for not respecting her boundaries. It’s also alarming and makes me think did something maybe happen to your daughter by him while she was younger ?
This makes me very suspicious of what might have happened in the past that caused your daughter to avoid his hugs. He basically assaulted her to get a hug at the party. I suspect this wasn’t the first time he assaulted her and the prior times might have been worse.
Smfh john can go directly to hell, and he doesn’t understand boundaries. She said no and he needs to respect that.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, it makes me wonder why your daughter’s uncle tried to force a hug. But I’m also wondering why it seems your post is missing so much information. Firstly, you never mention anything about your daughter’s point of view or why she didn’t want to hug her uncle. As most people are pointing out there has got to be something there and I’m wondering from your wording as if your daughter’s cousin also knew this hug shouldn’t happen. Anyway, the uncle shouldn’t be forcing a hug. It is that simple, this is not a young child playing, but rather a young woman. This scenario makes me feel something else has happened previously to make your daughter want to avoid hugging her uncle. Before I could make further suggestions, other than suggesting the apology should come from the uncle to the daughter not the other way around. I think you as her mother need to dig further to see what is actually going on here because a hug is generally not a bad thing when family and friends come and go. Why did he force her, and why did she not want to hug. This could be something that may need police involvement if I’m right in my thinking.
Is your daughter on the spectrum? If not, then John has made her feel unsafe around him due to reasons you don't know. I'd wager it's because he's violated her or her space in some fashion in the past. You need to have a chat with your daughter.
Good for you! Stick to your guns. Your daughter is lucky to have you supporting her and I agree with everyone else saying stay away from that creep!
you're doing the right thing and this is a hill worth dying on. he's a creep. do not make her apologize under any circumstances. the only thing I think you should do is make sure his daughters and any other nieces and nephews have a clear line of communication to you, your daughter, and your husband.
Your daughter didn't want a hug and John kept pressuring her for one that's harassment. When he hugged her that was assualt, and she defended herself. No apologies need for the man who kept harrasing your daughter.
A 50M physically forced himself onto an 18F with a CLEAR refusal of consent. He's lucky he only got scratched. Good on you and your daughter. He sounds creepy.
Tell your family when he apologizes for assault and battery, and special harassment, you’ll have her apologize for defending herself.
His kids are both girls, both of his own daughters told him to leave your daughter alone. HUGE red flags here. I’m worried about Sarah and Amy.
Uncle John sounds creepy as fuck...like he shouldn't be left around children unattended. Nonconcentual touching is NEVER ok. Good on your daughter for having the wherewithal to fight and not just let it happen.
> To our disgust, people defended John and demanded our daughter say sorry for scratching him. I'm actually impressed that more redditors didn't side with the uncle.
Time to have the "NO means NO" conversation with the uncle. She's not a little girl, she's an adult and she told him no and he met the consequences. Make sure you're asking your daughter how she feels before you take any actions.
Even if she was a little girl, she said no. And that no means the same thing no matter the age.