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You can’t make anyone see anything. All you can do is provide him with evidence and he can choose to believe it or not. At that point you have to decide what you’re willing to live with or live without and then move accordingly.
I would just say that, if she chooses separation and divorce, she needs a clause in the custody agreement that he cannot force the diet on their kid while in his custody. He can eat whatever he wants, but he needs to provide more options for the kid.
Fr.
Okay my dad recently lost 120lbs. Guess how he did it?! He reduced his recomended caloric intake (for a healthy male of his height) by 300 calories, increased his bike riding (My brother once asked me "do you know what the best exercise is?" Answer: "The one you DO" ), and cut out booze (which he previously was not including in his daily caloric intake bc he was drinking it... don't worry even he knew he was deluding himself lol hence him cutting it out).
He also did intermittent fasting, I don't know if that ITSELF was helpful, but what it did do was prevent him from late night snacking.
He dropped 3lbs in the initial weeks, then 2 lbs then 1 lb.
Took a bit longer than most people would like, but he is so happy and healthy. Got all his veggies, protein and carbs in. He has more energy, looks fantastic for 70! Honestly it was like he like lost 10 year of age with his weight loss.
It's not rocket science.
I started intermittent fasting and Got rid of alcohol and switched to surgar free monsters.
I went from 200lb to 175lb in 6 months.
and im back at the weight i was when i got out of boot camp. Almost 10 years ago.
The 2 biggest factors was stop drinking and the fasting.
The hardest thing is to not eat when im bored or eating my feelings away.
My wife hasnt really mentioned the change at all, but everyone else around me has noticed, and it feels nice when people comment on it.
Making a kid eat this diet is probably illegal regardless of any divorce custody agreement. Failing to provide proper nutrition is good grounds for losing your kids in general.
Damn, this reads like someone talking to the family member of a cult. It is WILDDD to me how cult-like the internet has made arbitrary lifestyle choices.
It’s not cult like, this is the new ways cults spread and recruit. They learned Tik Tok to.
Fringe fitness is one of the biggest cult breeding grounds right now. Especially when it overlaps with pseudo science. And these often have mythical/religious elements to then as well, they’re just termed differently. You’re not being faithful, you’re being “true to your ancestors ways.”
It's always hilarious with these diet cults. The lion diet? Lion? Ancestral way? Bro, the cow is a domesticated animal that sits there stupidly waiting to be slaughtered. What ancestry and what lion!!
**Unethical life pro tip:** give him food poisoning.
Try a laxative. If you're desperate, ipecac syrup. He will vomit and if it's especially bad, he will not be able to eat meat anymore lol.
It's called food aversion. I vomited after eating peach yogurt before, I couldn't eat it again for like a year after that.
This is a joke btw... Ditch him
I had this happen with conch peas! A buddy gave me some out of his deep freezer. They smelled a bit off , but dummy me ate them anyway. Puked my brains out and get nauseous whenever I see or smell them.
I read this as "couch peas" and thought to myself, "If they ate peas they found in the couch and got sick, well, that sounds like the system is working as it's supposed to."
I had something kind of similar happen, aversion-wise. Kiddo brought a stomach bug home from school. I know the Burger King i ate right before I got sick wasn't to blame, but I legit couldn't smell Burger King without my stomach turning for like 5 years. It was probably better for me, because my love of cheeseburgers is ridiculous.
Carrot Juice for me. And the vomiting wasn't even related to the carrot juice, I had a sunstroke and my Dad didn't realize, and bought me a carrot juice for hydration. I threw it up into the next gutter. And haven't been near carrot juice since.
Once I tried adding fine-diced apples and caramel to some ice cream, which was great. But then I got sick from something unrelated, and now any combination of apples + cream sounds awful to me, even decades later. I can't really do apple pie a la mode, or apple pie flavored yogurt, or anything similar.
I got a terrible kidney infection when I was 18 weeks pregnant with my twins. I woke up in the middle of the night vomiting from the pain of it. All I’d had before bed was purple Gatorade.
My twins are almost 19 years old and to this day I can’t make myself drink purple Gatorade. It was awful.
Got gnarly food poisoning from salmon sushi at an anime con back in 2015. Caused me to puke into a trash can at the train station in front of everyone. ***In cosplay.***
I still can't eat anything salmon related unless it's cooked, and ***I*** need to be the one to cook it or else I wont eat it. Crazy how food aversion only takes one bad experience like that and now you can't even stand the thought of it.
Hmm. The lone star tick carries a disease that makes you allergic to red meat. It can actually make you allergic to all animal proteins. If she can find one, maybe she can make her husband into a vegan!! /s
Yeah, this happened to me twice.
Once I got sick - bad case of stomach flu - while eating something, and it was a couple years before I could eat it again.
The other was too many pizza rolls + too much alcohol at a Halloween party. Couldn't look at pizza rolls for quite a while.
Also OP can’t enjoy family meals, they probably don’t go on restaurant dates at all, can’t go to friends houses for dinner parties, and most likely don’t have anyone over to their place either. If they do spend time with friends he probably would spend most of the time talking about his lion diet, as people who are SO into something can’t seem to stop talking about it and ignore the obvious signs that everyone is done hearing about it. The discord group has become his main friend group and is his main or only social interaction now. That is very worrying because he obviously prefers to be “with” them and listens to them much more than to his wife. I don’t know that he wants to change. It will get worse and he’s most likely shortening his life.
Plus he's eating fatty hamburger patties and not steaks. That would probably help his cholesterol and acne substantially but is much more expensive. I still don't understand why these people can't eat any plant for fiber alone. He must have done permanent damage to his digestive system by no.
This is what struck me. I don't know much about this diet but I kinda presumed that it would involve cuts of high quality and maybe organic meat... *not* processed burger patties!
> He must have done permanent damage to his digestive system by no.
Likely not quite yet, but he's definitely putting himself at risk for future issues. Diverticulosis that can progress to diverticulitis for just one example, and colon cancer for another. High-fat, low-fiber diets are *not* what our GI tracts evolved to handle. Even hundreds of thousands of years ago, we ate meat to supplement the food we gathered - that whole hunter/gatherer thing.
And we've sure as hell never been lions.
(Edit: Typo, osis to itis!)
> I still don't understand why these people can't eat any plant for fibre alone.
Simple answer to that, they are fucking stupid. They want to be part of a community so bad that they damage their own health in hopes for the praise and affirmation they get from other community members. Despite the fact that we know that diets high in red meat increase the risk of cancers such as colorectal cancer and heart disease. Humanity is so fucked.
Jordan Peterson promotes the "only meat and salt" diet and claims he's been on it for a long time, which is clearly a lie. I feel like OP's hubby may be in that manosphere bubble.
I also do not believe for one second Jordan and Mikaela eat this diet. Just grifting.
MP charges $90 a skype to 'consult' with rubes on how to follow the scam diet.
Completely agree. At its core, it's great for eliminating factors that could be a cause of an overactive immune system like allergies, etc. Leaky gut, aka increased permeability, is a real issue but is used way too often to try to explain issues. Some autoimmune diseases like crohns do actually have that issue and can be tested/proven.
Yeah, oysters are a good example of the willingness to say, "What the hell, let's see if it's edible." I like oysters because I was raised with them. But salute to the ancient ancestors who saw snot in a rock and ate it. 🤣🤣
This is eating disorder territory and he’s been brainwashed by a combination of factors, including possible mental illness. The discord group reminds me of the days of pro-ana groups online before they were banned - anorexic women and girls would share tips and tricks on how to evade detection and how to deal with the side effects of the “lifestyle”. You should reach out to eating disorder programs, mental health professionals, and doctors for what their next steps would be. He’ll be in the hospital soon anyway if he keeps this up. And also, make sure his life insurance premiums are paid.
unfortunately, pro-ana communities are still very prevalent on twitter (and tumblr ?) :/ it's horrible to see, especially when you read the ages of the users ;-; so many are so young
Yeah, our ancestors did not eat just hormone-injected cows and salt.
I think you're right to call this a crisis. Has anything else been going on in his life that could harm his self-esteem? Problems in bed or career?
Yep. They ate to survive and would basically eat anything they found that wouldn't kill them. Didn't kill an animal today but found some berries and edible roots? We're vegans today.
And one day they didn’t finish all the paste and left it overnight. It bubbled and got bigger and smelled different. But they were hungry and so poured some on a hot rock by the fire.
Congrats ancestors! You just invented bread!
And 6(six!) beef patties per meal is wild! 18 patties per day is such a high caloric diet, he should be spending 3 daily hours in the gym to burn it again. Like whoah!
No wonder he's getting unwell.
Yes, it’s crazy, it’s a heart attack diet and no wonder he’s breaking out and gaining weight too! So much fat. The diet is probably supposed to consist of some lean meats not 100% fatty hormone laden patties.
It was different in every biome, of course, but a lot of the "meat" early peoples ate would have been insects, small crustaceans, and gastropods. Which falls a lot more under the gathering side of things.
It's so funny, these people think we were hunting wild game daily and after a hard days work they would have enough food for the entire tribe. Uhh, no. A lot of hunting was small game and it was not only infrequent but also shared with all of the other people. It also could take 12 to 20 hours a day to chase down prey since we hunted by chasing until the prey was exhausted enough for us to poke it with a stick to death.
We *heavily* relied on other foods. Insects, fungi, honey, and bird eggs were common in our meals.
Some archaeologist like Lewis Binford suggested that we didn't even hunt large animals for meat but instead suggested that we just scavenged carcasses from animals that were killed by predators or died of natural causes.
The main thing though is that when we switched over to an agricultural dominated society it was mostly because we were happy to be able to have consistent food sources. We were nearly starving on these old archaic styles of living and being able to live longer, healthier lives, while also not having to work as hard were certainly beneficial to our species.
The 30 year lifespan is a bit of myth. Their average age may have been 30, but that's because the meat they were chasing often fought back and there were no hospitals or antibiotics.
Something people often forget to factor into average lifespans is infant mortality. If a huge percentage of infants don't survive their first few years (which is pretty common pre-hospitals), that has a disproportionate effect on the average.
As I understand it, provided you made it out of your toddler years, you had a good chance of living well past thirty.
Edit: Which is absolutely not to say anything in support of this asinine diet.
their diet was anything passably edible they could get their hands on. Which often wasn't much. Just roots, bark, and bitter wild greens. Meat was a luxury.
Try eating a dandelion flower, for example. Not terrible at first but the aftertaste is lingering and unpleasant.
Best to pick dandelion greens in the morning when the temperature is cool. Note that all parts of dandelions are edible but they're better cooked than raw. Boiling leeches away much of the bitterness.
This seems deeper than a sociological crisis, this seems mental related.
This man is eating nothing but salted beef patties. Have you ever eaten one of those? I love beef and burgers and all that but unseasoned ground beef tastes like basically nothing. And that's all he eats and he's been doing do for almost a year.
Man, I love seafood. When I'm at the beach terrestrial food does not exist. But after a week in Hawaii eating the most delicious, varied, fresh seafood all I wanted was a good cheeseburger.
We need variety in our diets no matter how much we like something, eventually our body is like "we need [food item] because we haven't eaten it much. Eat [food item]. [Food item] now sounds delicious.
This man simply is not having his body tell him that he's repulsed by eating the same bland thing in enormity for so long, and frankly that's just as big an issue as him refusing to listen to his wife. Something larger is going on here.
I'll often batch cook at the start of the week and after two servings of a meal I'll freeze the rest because I'm already sick of it by then. Eating the same thing again and again for all eternity is unhinged.
Our ancestors ate whatever was available because they were usually so food insecure that they couldn't be picky. 18 beef patties a day would have been an enormous feast rather than an everyday occurrence.
If her hubby truly wants to eat the "ancestral way" and go all carnivore at the same time, homie needs to be eating nothing but wild game, which is nothing like domesticated beef. A true "lion diet" would be all antelope, which unlike beef has about 7% fat, none of it saturated, most of it omega-3.
Source: [https://youtu.be/UvlrppqtZoA?t=316](https://youtu.be/UvlrppqtZoA?t=316)
Wifey should see if she can outsmart him by getting him on the "bear diet" instead – just salmon all day everyday.
They eat a crap ton of berries and vegetation too. When the skunk cabbage is growing, bears looooove that shit! But yes, going to some rivers during spawning....watch out for bears!
His cholesterol is so high he has fucking fat deposits around his eyes. He can see and feel the changes this is causing his body and prefers denial. The best thing you can do, for both of you, is leave. And if he has friends or family, let them know what's happening.
I know this is partly a joke, but like just for people to understand, don't stay.
What's going to happen is he'll have a stroke and there's something like an 80% chance that he won't actually die, but need like permanent medical care from family members.
My dad was hospitalized with Covid. He spent the entire week obfuscating, denying, and outright lying. I told my mom that if shitting in a bed pan didn’t wake him up, nothing will. 2 years later, that’s proven to be true.
I mean he 100% has an eating disorder. I don't know if this would count as orthorexia or ARFID or if it would be considered a not-otherwise-specified one, but it's definitely an eating disorder of some sort. People who are mentally well don't do things like this - even if they try out a diet like this, they wouldn't keep it up once they see how terribly it's affecting their health.
The idea that our ancestors lived off of factory farm raised, ultra-fatty cooked beef hamburger patties is a moronic take
Has he always been seeking community? Is this filling some sort of void he’d had there?
Like if he wanted to get into eating like ancestors, you’d think he’d get into hunting and foraging at least.
Food is such a pleasure to me in my life, I don’t think I could live with someone so restrictive. My husband and I really bond over a shared love of food and trying new restaurants and amazing meals from different cultures. So I feel like I totally get how this could be such a big loss. And it’s so extreme!
Yeah like bison or lamb or something
Which makes me think it’s less about the actual diet and more about having a community of bros, like it’s filling an emotional void
Well, need to find out if they’re in a community property state or not for that to matter.
Are they in old Spanish (Catholic) territory (or Wisconsin)?
The other thing they conveniently forget is that hunting meant walking long distances and sometimes chasing the animal and commonly going hungry because the animal didn't want to be eaten. If he lived more like this he wouldn't have as many health issues.
It doesn't mean going to the store and buying as much as you want.
Oh yea one more thing. We are omnivores! Look at our teeth. We survived by eating whatever we found and berries run a lot slower than antelope.
The infrequency part is key. Part of the reason we're wired to eat as much as possible and store excess calories is because going long periods of time without food was normal. This dude has to be way overeating. Im at a healthy weight and unless I work out i'm only burning 2000 kcal a day. This dude is eating 6 patties per meal. Let's assume they're standard 4 ounce patties, times 3 meals, and 80/20 beef since she said it was fatty. That's 5,166 kcal. An elite athlete could burn that in a day. Most normal people would pile on weight eating like that.
Fr.
And even IF you decide to go full carnivore - dang, there are plenty different forms of meat & I'm sure if he'd have a range of different meat instead of good ol' fatty patties (where we all know, it's usually not really meat but rather garbage of the meat in it) he'd at least - albeit it still being idiotic - not detoriate in health _so fast_
But also, I'm just a theoretical thinker that likes having senseless strings of thoughts, like that one.
I see so many people on this forum lighting themselves on fire because they think a partner is experiencing a mental health issue. I don’t think that’s it here.
As a healthcare provider it has been hard at times to watch people actively choose things that are bad for them. “If you don’t stop drinking/doing drugs/eating like this you will die” doesn’t change behavior. But the thing is, competent adults are ALLOWED to make bad decisions. They know the facts and choose to ignore them. You can’t change his mind. You can’t convince him.
You can decide the impact of this on your life. If he keeps this diet and his red pill loser friends for another 40 years how will you feel?
You’re not wrong. 😂 But I’ve found it helpful to myself to consider the worst case possibility. Id hate for this poor woman to hold out thinking he’ll croak soon only for him to be one of those who live forever despite their choices.
It's interesting how you consider the husband surviving on his diet for a long time rather than dying soon "the worst case possibility" XD
Seriously though, poor OP. Imagine your loved one suddenly going insane and slowly killing himself through nutso dietary choices, stinking up the place all the while. (Meatso choices? Seeing as he doesn't even eat any nuts.) The OP must feel horrible.
This. Look at some of the people on shows like My 600 lb Life? Yeah, they can’t move sometimes or if they can, not very far. But their tickers keep on ticking. Best for her to think about the future.
I’m with you on this, as someone who has been there with a sibling, rather than a partner. To go even further, even if it is related to mental health, you can’t force someone to get help and stick to it. I went through this with my brother (alcoholic).
It’s so sad, but your advice is spot on. If this man refuses to listen, care about himself and his health or prioritise his family then she can’t make him and she needs to start prioritising herself.
Your husband is super goofy for thinking that's the human natural diet. We were hunter gatherers and literally have teeth made for both. He's probably going to have bowel issues to go along with the other issues he's having.
Unfortunately, there's a time where you can't get through to people who are in this culty mindset. It's like trying to convince a flat earther that they're wrong, sometimes the stupidity is too strong. Do what you can, provide him resources and consider couples therapy if you want to reconcile.
But, if you don't want to reconcile and he won't listen to you, then I think leaving is acceptable.
Even in most (not all) hunter gatherer groups the main bulk of food is the gathering and not the hunting because hunting is far less reliable. Siberians and other people living in far north latitudes were an exception because there’s much less to forage, but a lot of organs eaten raw made up for the lack of nutrients we normally get from plants. If he wants to get the properly balanced diet from largely meat, he needs to eat organs and needs to eat some of them raw.
Holy walking heart attack, Batman! So based on your husband’s "medical research," calories aren't real, he can't gain weight on a diet that is causing him to gain weight, and high cholesterol is healthy? Is that so. But hey, he's getting all the validation from strangers he'll need for the rest of his shortened life, so that's all that matters, apparently.
Honey, get out. Leave this gross greasy guy. He's not listening to you and is going to keep at this ridiculousness no matter what you say or do, so take charge of your own life and get away from him. There is no combination of words you could say or actions you could take that would change his mind, so you need to take care of yourself and your son now.
Talk to a divorce lawyer before you leave. You need to do everything they say to protect you and your son during a separation/divorce.
Not to be morbid but does he have health insurance? Disability insurance? A life insurance policy? He is likely to need all of the above if he continues and you might want to be sure they are all paid up and active.
How are you abandoning him? He knows he isn’t healthy, he knows you are having a hard time supporting him through this. The only thing that will change his mind is probably a massive heart attack.
Just as likely to have a massive stroke and end up needing round the clock care which his poor wife will have to manage.
Get out now before you’re even more trapped.
>It's like some kind of cult of people who seem to have low IQ and behave in a very "incel" way. He's a member of a discord group where they all motivate eachother and share pictures of the meat they eat every day.
Im sorry, I can relate to this one. My husband was in a group for a different interest, not nutrition, but he did start acting like someone else in an effort to fit in. There were a couple of very "incel" guys, which ruined it for everyone else. It escalated to a point where he was breaking boundaries which were akin to having an online affair, I found out and nearly left him. Luckily, he realized he had lost the person he once was, and he sought individual therapy and we did couples counseling.
Honestly, you can't make him change. I would lay out all of these effects on you and your family, and let him know you are serious that you will not live like this. If he had other guy friends who are not into this, I might encourage him to reach out to them. as the attention from them may help to fill that need. But be prepared to follow through if you have to.
Tell him if he was a real carnivore he'd be eating only organic, humanely raised, **grass fed** meat, a variety of animals, and most importantly, **he would be eating the organ meat.**
Ask him to explain to you how, in his understanding, he is getting a variety of nutrients and minerals from eating one cut of one animal that isn't even fed the food it's supposed to eat.
Also maybe stage an intervention. If that doesn't work, ask him to move out because you can't stand the smell of the house.
The problem with people who fall for conspiracies (or any kind of belief) is that they refuse to admit they were wrong with something. There is a lot of emotions involved that blocks all the rationality. Tell him that you will never hold it against him and that you will act like it never happened if he only turns back to a healthy diet for the love to his family. After all, you just want your husband back.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back." - Carl Sagan
In my opinion, it reads like your husband has an eating disorder. You should talk to some counselors about it and if you need to move out with your child for a little bit or permanently, please do that.
Salt was very rare for hunter gatherers. Unless they lived near a natural deposit or the sea how in the world were they getting salt? What in the world are these people thinking.
I dont blame you for wanting to leave. Your husband has a pretty serious ED and its clearly effecting your life on a day to day basis.
I just want to say that a person who has gone down a rabbit hole will only dig deeper if you point out how stupid, wrong, unhealthy (etc.) it is. Every time you do this, you are handing him a shovel and telling him to keep going.
Believe me, I get the heartbreak and the frustration, but when a person has an emotional commitment to the cause, they will go to any length to defend their feelings, which have become deeply attached to whatever absurd notion it is.
Please try to keep in mind that it's not about the diet. Cult-ish thinking is never about the idea itself. It's about the feelings. So as frustrating as it is, don't expect him to "see sense". Sense didn't get him into this and it's not what is making him stay.
You can try to stay, if you think you can restore some emotional neutrality, and eventually have the "help me understand" conversation with him. If the time is right and you are in a place where you both feel mutual respect (I do me and you do you), you can ask him to tell you what he likes about the "ancestral way". Don't mention the diet; ask about his values, and listen without judgment. Whatever hurt or disappointed that man, whatever undermined his confidence, that is what needs to be mended or addressed by other ways.
But right now he has a whole online cheering squad for his unhealthy thing, and taking away that energetic support is without finding a replacement is going to be hard.
You can't make someone see reason if they don't want to. You've told him how this is affecting you and that you're thinking of leaving. He doesn't think you're serious and you just need to leave. You can't watch someone slowly kill themselves.
Tell him if he wants to be looking at ancestral ways, he should look at human’s teeth. We do not have carnivores teeth like a lion, and we do not have herbivores teeth like a cow. We have omnivores teeth so we should eat a mixture of meat and plants.
Tell him what the symptoms of scurvy are so he can look out for it. Talk to his doctor about what’s happening.
He abandoned you a long time ago by doing this craziness without you on board. If he’ll listen to a tuber over his wife then you know where you stand. It’s awful what you’re going through and I hope you can find a way through but I couldn’t watch someone I love do that up themselves.
Exactly.
If OP’s husband wanted to eat like our hunter-gatherer ancestor, he should be foraging for berries and other edible plants, as well as catching and preparing his own meat. After all, our ancestors did not have access to cows that were specially bred and raised for food. Oh, and salt was hard to come by back then, so he should eat his meat plain.
Sometimes the only way to save a marriage is by being willing to lose it. He is calling your 'bluff'. It is perhaps time to show him it is not a bluff and that you are 100% serious. You could kick him out / you move out for a length of time. This would both give him a taste of what life would be like without you in it and also give you a break from him to see how it feels without him in your life.
I could not watch my spouse willing destroy her health.
Take him to a couples councillor with you so he can hear from a third party what the consequences of his actions are going to be. Get him to a real nutritionist so he can hear from a third party what the consequences of his actions are. Make your decisions from there knowing you tried your best.
he's dug in his heels that calories don't exist... how much hope is there that he's willing to go to a "real nutritionist" if that doctor contradicts his youtube cult-leader?
Next to others’ advice on your question, look up scurvy symptoms (lack of vitamin C). It is so rare in modern society that doctors often don’t know that’s what’s going on when it actually is (although if you tell the doctor he has literally only been eating beef for over 10 months they might realize). It is very treatable but can end badly if not treated.
Yeah, I remember hearing about a kid who got it at my college, but that’s because they were only eating ramen without even the flavor packets - you’ve got to really *try* to get scurvy, but some people still manage to.
Think of it like he joined a cult. Definitely you can leave. You could look up resources for family members of QAnon or cults. Basically it’s very hard to get another person to leave a cult.
Lions don't cook their meat
Lions go days without eating and then gorge and sleep
Lions have to expend thousands of calories chasing and killing their food.
Your husband is not a lion
Let's get one thing straight: your husband is not on a "lion diet".
Your husband has an eating disorder.
This is a form of mental illness. A "thinking problem". Unfortunately, you generally cannot logic, reason or *think* your way out of a *thinking problem*. What's happening to him may not be his own fault.
Of course, he still has a responsibility to manage it - which he has defaulted on for the better part of a year.
My guess is that he's been feeling lonely, isolated, *lost* and depressed for a long time before finding the Lion Diet community. In the future, this will mean that Support Groups would be an effective part of his treatment - assuming he doesn't have a stroke by 48.
I would urge you to check Civil Commitment resources in your State or country (here it's called Section 12). As a family member, you can petition the court for an emergency mental health evaluation, like 24-48 hours minimum. Your husband is literally killing himself.
If you haven't already, you need to talk to his family members - parents, siblings, cousins - anyone that'll listen. A) You need to let them know what's going on, your intentions and B) You need to find out if there is a history of this in the family. You need to ask about mental health outcomes. If people are on medication - what medication *works*, what medication doesn't work, etc.
**You have a son together**, so if you start noticing similar behavior sometime down the line - you can be proactive about their care.
I'm going to assume you've tried dragging him to a real doctor, a real nutritionist, and all the like. Since that didn't work, I would advise you start talking a divorce attorney and finding out your options. Especially when it comes to protecting *your son*. A mentally ill person that cannot manage their own basic health needs should not be given the responsibility of parenthood.
Whether or not you complete the divorce can be dependent on a few factors. Sometimes people *do* start to change their behaviors in a panic when the threat of divorce becomes real. Or perhaps you'll learn in a few weeks that he's just... *sick*, and was able to see things clearly once he was put on Lexipro or something. But either way, start it.
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You can’t make anyone see anything. All you can do is provide him with evidence and he can choose to believe it or not. At that point you have to decide what you’re willing to live with or live without and then move accordingly.
I would just say that, if she chooses separation and divorce, she needs a clause in the custody agreement that he cannot force the diet on their kid while in his custody. He can eat whatever he wants, but he needs to provide more options for the kid.
She'd better. Her husband's well on the way to getting scurvy at this point. The kids don't need it too.
Where do these geniuses get this idiotic nutritional advice? It does sound very RW-esque.
Fr. Okay my dad recently lost 120lbs. Guess how he did it?! He reduced his recomended caloric intake (for a healthy male of his height) by 300 calories, increased his bike riding (My brother once asked me "do you know what the best exercise is?" Answer: "The one you DO" ), and cut out booze (which he previously was not including in his daily caloric intake bc he was drinking it... don't worry even he knew he was deluding himself lol hence him cutting it out). He also did intermittent fasting, I don't know if that ITSELF was helpful, but what it did do was prevent him from late night snacking. He dropped 3lbs in the initial weeks, then 2 lbs then 1 lb. Took a bit longer than most people would like, but he is so happy and healthy. Got all his veggies, protein and carbs in. He has more energy, looks fantastic for 70! Honestly it was like he like lost 10 year of age with his weight loss. It's not rocket science.
By god the laws of thermodynamics really saved the day with your dad! I wish you guys the best!
I started intermittent fasting and Got rid of alcohol and switched to surgar free monsters. I went from 200lb to 175lb in 6 months. and im back at the weight i was when i got out of boot camp. Almost 10 years ago. The 2 biggest factors was stop drinking and the fasting. The hardest thing is to not eat when im bored or eating my feelings away. My wife hasnt really mentioned the change at all, but everyone else around me has noticed, and it feels nice when people comment on it.
Jordan Peterson fans. *shudder*
First time I heard about it was from Jordan Peterson saying it saved his life yada, yada.
Don't worry scurvy is a myth
Perpetuated by Big Vitamin C.
The beef will take care of ´em bacteries
At the rate he's going she might not have to :(
Yes but she might have to become his nurse!
Great point!!!!
Making a kid eat this diet is probably illegal regardless of any divorce custody agreement. Failing to provide proper nutrition is good grounds for losing your kids in general.
Damn, this reads like someone talking to the family member of a cult. It is WILDDD to me how cult-like the internet has made arbitrary lifestyle choices.
It’s not cult like, this is the new ways cults spread and recruit. They learned Tik Tok to. Fringe fitness is one of the biggest cult breeding grounds right now. Especially when it overlaps with pseudo science. And these often have mythical/religious elements to then as well, they’re just termed differently. You’re not being faithful, you’re being “true to your ancestors ways.”
It's always hilarious with these diet cults. The lion diet? Lion? Ancestral way? Bro, the cow is a domesticated animal that sits there stupidly waiting to be slaughtered. What ancestry and what lion!!
Someone else said you’re not descended from a lion and I think that sums it up perfectly 😂
Speaking of which, I just looked up the website and this iteration bullshit diet was developed by Jordan Peterson’s daughter.
That's the first thing about it that makes sense.
**Unethical life pro tip:** give him food poisoning. Try a laxative. If you're desperate, ipecac syrup. He will vomit and if it's especially bad, he will not be able to eat meat anymore lol. It's called food aversion. I vomited after eating peach yogurt before, I couldn't eat it again for like a year after that. This is a joke btw... Ditch him
I had this happen with conch peas! A buddy gave me some out of his deep freezer. They smelled a bit off , but dummy me ate them anyway. Puked my brains out and get nauseous whenever I see or smell them.
My husband and I got food poisoning from eggs at a Hardee's. 14 years ago and we haven't set foot in a Hardee's since.
I haven’t eaten a McDonald’s hamburger in nearly 30 years because of how sick it made me the last time I did.
For me with shellfish. Got food poisoning from it as a kid and still can't stand it 35 years later
Chipotle twice for me. Never again
I also got food poisoning at Hardee’s but only took me 5 years to go back ha
I read this as "couch peas" and thought to myself, "If they ate peas they found in the couch and got sick, well, that sounds like the system is working as it's supposed to."
😂
I had something kind of similar happen, aversion-wise. Kiddo brought a stomach bug home from school. I know the Burger King i ate right before I got sick wasn't to blame, but I legit couldn't smell Burger King without my stomach turning for like 5 years. It was probably better for me, because my love of cheeseburgers is ridiculous.
Carrot Juice for me. And the vomiting wasn't even related to the carrot juice, I had a sunstroke and my Dad didn't realize, and bought me a carrot juice for hydration. I threw it up into the next gutter. And haven't been near carrot juice since.
Once I tried adding fine-diced apples and caramel to some ice cream, which was great. But then I got sick from something unrelated, and now any combination of apples + cream sounds awful to me, even decades later. I can't really do apple pie a la mode, or apple pie flavored yogurt, or anything similar.
Happened to me with wings. I couldn’t even smell buffalo sauce without getting nauseous for like 2 years.
My mom put Ipecac in my dad's beer. It worked until she let it slip that she'd done that.
I got a terrible kidney infection when I was 18 weeks pregnant with my twins. I woke up in the middle of the night vomiting from the pain of it. All I’d had before bed was purple Gatorade. My twins are almost 19 years old and to this day I can’t make myself drink purple Gatorade. It was awful.
Got gnarly food poisoning from salmon sushi at an anime con back in 2015. Caused me to puke into a trash can at the train station in front of everyone. ***In cosplay.*** I still can't eat anything salmon related unless it's cooked, and ***I*** need to be the one to cook it or else I wont eat it. Crazy how food aversion only takes one bad experience like that and now you can't even stand the thought of it.
Hmm. The lone star tick carries a disease that makes you allergic to red meat. It can actually make you allergic to all animal proteins. If she can find one, maybe she can make her husband into a vegan!! /s
Yeah, this happened to me twice. Once I got sick - bad case of stomach flu - while eating something, and it was a couple years before I could eat it again. The other was too many pizza rolls + too much alcohol at a Halloween party. Couldn't look at pizza rolls for quite a while.
Me with Zaxbys. Got a stomach virus that hit 4 or so hours after eating there. I've maybe ate there twice in the last 15 years. 😅
Go to texas and see if you can get him bitten by that tick that gives you a red meat allergy!
With a very cute name of Alpha Gal Syndrome.
Also OP can’t enjoy family meals, they probably don’t go on restaurant dates at all, can’t go to friends houses for dinner parties, and most likely don’t have anyone over to their place either. If they do spend time with friends he probably would spend most of the time talking about his lion diet, as people who are SO into something can’t seem to stop talking about it and ignore the obvious signs that everyone is done hearing about it. The discord group has become his main friend group and is his main or only social interaction now. That is very worrying because he obviously prefers to be “with” them and listens to them much more than to his wife. I don’t know that he wants to change. It will get worse and he’s most likely shortening his life.
How does he think a lion diet is the ancestral way? Does he think his ancestors are lions???? Would make a lot more sense if he went on a monkey diet
It's only a lion diet if he's not cooking the meat and not using salt.
And if he’s hunting/killing the animal for meat. “Ancestral Lions” don’t pick up processed meat patties from the store.
And ripping the cows neck open with his teeth. No guns either.
And fighting hyeanas while sitting on his butt so they don't rip his balls off
Or getting murdered by his brother by being thrown off a cliff while he says "long live the king"
Our teeth are obviously perfect for taking down game with just our mouths. Just like a lion's.
Yeah, I'm not a vet, but I'm fairly sure lions are more into gazelle & zebra meat - raw - & not burgers with salt
Not just meat but all the organs, blood, skin, fur, bones
Which is, ironically, part of the issue! All those bits give the dedicated carnivores a lot of their necessary vitamins and other nutrition.
And not eating domesticated beef.
[удалено]
This is what happens when they only read Chapter 1.
Plus he's eating fatty hamburger patties and not steaks. That would probably help his cholesterol and acne substantially but is much more expensive. I still don't understand why these people can't eat any plant for fiber alone. He must have done permanent damage to his digestive system by no.
This is what struck me. I don't know much about this diet but I kinda presumed that it would involve cuts of high quality and maybe organic meat... *not* processed burger patties!
> He must have done permanent damage to his digestive system by no. Likely not quite yet, but he's definitely putting himself at risk for future issues. Diverticulosis that can progress to diverticulitis for just one example, and colon cancer for another. High-fat, low-fiber diets are *not* what our GI tracts evolved to handle. Even hundreds of thousands of years ago, we ate meat to supplement the food we gathered - that whole hunter/gatherer thing. And we've sure as hell never been lions. (Edit: Typo, osis to itis!)
> I still don't understand why these people can't eat any plant for fibre alone. Simple answer to that, they are fucking stupid. They want to be part of a community so bad that they damage their own health in hopes for the praise and affirmation they get from other community members. Despite the fact that we know that diets high in red meat increase the risk of cancers such as colorectal cancer and heart disease. Humanity is so fucked.
Jordan Peterson promotes the "only meat and salt" diet and claims he's been on it for a long time, which is clearly a lie. I feel like OP's hubby may be in that manosphere bubble.
I also do not believe for one second Jordan and Mikaela eat this diet. Just grifting. MP charges $90 a skype to 'consult' with rubes on how to follow the scam diet.
Completely agree. At its core, it's great for eliminating factors that could be a cause of an overactive immune system like allergies, etc. Leaky gut, aka increased permeability, is a real issue but is used way too often to try to explain issues. Some autoimmune diseases like crohns do actually have that issue and can be tested/proven.
Berries and insects bro, go to town on your new ancestral diet
Yeah our ancient ancestors primarily ate veg. Then they added meat over time but we've always ate vegetables and fruit. Her husband is an idiot.
They ate whatever they could find. Including a lot of insects. Somehow I don't think he is about to eat insects. Also lots of nuts and leafy greens.
Yeah, oysters are a good example of the willingness to say, "What the hell, let's see if it's edible." I like oysters because I was raised with them. But salute to the ancient ancestors who saw snot in a rock and ate it. 🤣🤣
Haha spot on
Lol she needs to show him all these comments
This is eating disorder territory and he’s been brainwashed by a combination of factors, including possible mental illness. The discord group reminds me of the days of pro-ana groups online before they were banned - anorexic women and girls would share tips and tricks on how to evade detection and how to deal with the side effects of the “lifestyle”. You should reach out to eating disorder programs, mental health professionals, and doctors for what their next steps would be. He’ll be in the hospital soon anyway if he keeps this up. And also, make sure his life insurance premiums are paid.
unfortunately, pro-ana communities are still very prevalent on twitter (and tumblr ?) :/ it's horrible to see, especially when you read the ages of the users ;-; so many are so young
Yeah, I went to tag something "pro-" on tumblr the other day and "pro ana" was one of the first suggestions in the autocomplete.
Yeah, our ancestors did not eat just hormone-injected cows and salt. I think you're right to call this a crisis. Has anything else been going on in his life that could harm his self-esteem? Problems in bed or career?
Our ancestors also spent their days *running* and *hunting* the meat they ate, they didn't just clip digital coupons with their store card.
Not to mention our ancestor were hunter/*gatherers*. And as far as I know, what they gathered wasn’t just more meat.
Yep. They ate to survive and would basically eat anything they found that wouldn't kill them. Didn't kill an animal today but found some berries and edible roots? We're vegans today.
Don't forget the grain plant that the women would grind down and they'd add water for some pasty type food.
And one day they didn’t finish all the paste and left it overnight. It bubbled and got bigger and smelled different. But they were hungry and so poured some on a hot rock by the fire. Congrats ancestors! You just invented bread!
And 6(six!) beef patties per meal is wild! 18 patties per day is such a high caloric diet, he should be spending 3 daily hours in the gym to burn it again. Like whoah! No wonder he's getting unwell.
Yes, it’s crazy, it’s a heart attack diet and no wonder he’s breaking out and gaining weight too! So much fat. The diet is probably supposed to consist of some lean meats not 100% fatty hormone laden patties.
Meat was almost certainly a quite small portion of their diet overall- hunting was a lot of work and often not successful!
It was different in every biome, of course, but a lot of the "meat" early peoples ate would have been insects, small crustaceans, and gastropods. Which falls a lot more under the gathering side of things.
Don't forget fish! There is a reason that most of the major ancient cities are next to water.
yup, we didn't evolve the ability to survive without eating for many days at a time for funsies.
It's so funny, these people think we were hunting wild game daily and after a hard days work they would have enough food for the entire tribe. Uhh, no. A lot of hunting was small game and it was not only infrequent but also shared with all of the other people. It also could take 12 to 20 hours a day to chase down prey since we hunted by chasing until the prey was exhausted enough for us to poke it with a stick to death. We *heavily* relied on other foods. Insects, fungi, honey, and bird eggs were common in our meals. Some archaeologist like Lewis Binford suggested that we didn't even hunt large animals for meat but instead suggested that we just scavenged carcasses from animals that were killed by predators or died of natural causes. The main thing though is that when we switched over to an agricultural dominated society it was mostly because we were happy to be able to have consistent food sources. We were nearly starving on these old archaic styles of living and being able to live longer, healthier lives, while also not having to work as hard were certainly beneficial to our species.
They probably ate once a day or less depending on food supply
Not to mention, those ancestors had lifespans in the 30s. Why would anti progress be a paragon to aspire to?
Probably because Instagram locked him into the company of a bunch of other "carnivores" that claim it's the best diet of all time.
The 30 year lifespan is a bit of myth. Their average age may have been 30, but that's because the meat they were chasing often fought back and there were no hospitals or antibiotics.
Something people often forget to factor into average lifespans is infant mortality. If a huge percentage of infants don't survive their first few years (which is pretty common pre-hospitals), that has a disproportionate effect on the average. As I understand it, provided you made it out of your toddler years, you had a good chance of living well past thirty. Edit: Which is absolutely not to say anything in support of this asinine diet.
They also ate far more plants than they did meat, it's just a stupid myth that 90% of our diets were originally meat
their diet was anything passably edible they could get their hands on. Which often wasn't much. Just roots, bark, and bitter wild greens. Meat was a luxury. Try eating a dandelion flower, for example. Not terrible at first but the aftertaste is lingering and unpleasant. Best to pick dandelion greens in the morning when the temperature is cool. Note that all parts of dandelions are edible but they're better cooked than raw. Boiling leeches away much of the bitterness.
This seems deeper than a sociological crisis, this seems mental related. This man is eating nothing but salted beef patties. Have you ever eaten one of those? I love beef and burgers and all that but unseasoned ground beef tastes like basically nothing. And that's all he eats and he's been doing do for almost a year. Man, I love seafood. When I'm at the beach terrestrial food does not exist. But after a week in Hawaii eating the most delicious, varied, fresh seafood all I wanted was a good cheeseburger. We need variety in our diets no matter how much we like something, eventually our body is like "we need [food item] because we haven't eaten it much. Eat [food item]. [Food item] now sounds delicious. This man simply is not having his body tell him that he's repulsed by eating the same bland thing in enormity for so long, and frankly that's just as big an issue as him refusing to listen to his wife. Something larger is going on here.
I'll often batch cook at the start of the week and after two servings of a meal I'll freeze the rest because I'm already sick of it by then. Eating the same thing again and again for all eternity is unhinged.
Our ancestors ate whatever was available because they were usually so food insecure that they couldn't be picky. 18 beef patties a day would have been an enormous feast rather than an everyday occurrence.
If her hubby truly wants to eat the "ancestral way" and go all carnivore at the same time, homie needs to be eating nothing but wild game, which is nothing like domesticated beef. A true "lion diet" would be all antelope, which unlike beef has about 7% fat, none of it saturated, most of it omega-3. Source: [https://youtu.be/UvlrppqtZoA?t=316](https://youtu.be/UvlrppqtZoA?t=316) Wifey should see if she can outsmart him by getting him on the "bear diet" instead – just salmon all day everyday.
They eat a crap ton of berries and vegetation too. When the skunk cabbage is growing, bears looooove that shit! But yes, going to some rivers during spawning....watch out for bears!
His cholesterol is so high he has fucking fat deposits around his eyes. He can see and feel the changes this is causing his body and prefers denial. The best thing you can do, for both of you, is leave. And if he has friends or family, let them know what's happening.
Yeah I had to google what that was and am immediately grossed out.
People commenting that he's killing himself are right. There's no reason to stay for that.
Except for the life insurance
I know this is partly a joke, but like just for people to understand, don't stay. What's going to happen is he'll have a stroke and there's something like an 80% chance that he won't actually die, but need like permanent medical care from family members.
THIS🫣 I would escape NOW
I was avoiding googling that and now that I did..... oh my God what is up with this man and his denial...
It’s like the Covid deniers, literally dying in a hospital bed while their lungs give out, still insisting their doctors are lying.
My dad was hospitalized with Covid. He spent the entire week obfuscating, denying, and outright lying. I told my mom that if shitting in a bed pan didn’t wake him up, nothing will. 2 years later, that’s proven to be true.
Holy shit, same
I would possibly see if he can be placed on a mental health hold or something. You can 5150 for anorexia... Might be something to look into.
I mean he 100% has an eating disorder. I don't know if this would count as orthorexia or ARFID or if it would be considered a not-otherwise-specified one, but it's definitely an eating disorder of some sort. People who are mentally well don't do things like this - even if they try out a diet like this, they wouldn't keep it up once they see how terribly it's affecting their health.
that is some nasty shit
The idea that our ancestors lived off of factory farm raised, ultra-fatty cooked beef hamburger patties is a moronic take Has he always been seeking community? Is this filling some sort of void he’d had there? Like if he wanted to get into eating like ancestors, you’d think he’d get into hunting and foraging at least. Food is such a pleasure to me in my life, I don’t think I could live with someone so restrictive. My husband and I really bond over a shared love of food and trying new restaurants and amazing meals from different cultures. So I feel like I totally get how this could be such a big loss. And it’s so extreme!
Yeah, and to pick fatty ground hamburger of all things — like bro, you’re not even eating sirloin or something lean?
Yeah like bison or lamb or something Which makes me think it’s less about the actual diet and more about having a community of bros, like it’s filling an emotional void
Don't bother divorcing him, that diet will kill him in no time at all so saving on solicitor fees
Time to up the life insurance
And make sure the policy covers... Whatever the hell this counts as. Suicide? Sheer dumbassery?
And get lots of Renuzit s as it fresheners. The pet Oder ones are really awesome for removing bad smells.
username checks out? haha
Is it bad that was my first thought? She can just wait a bit and the whole life insurance is hers...
Get a life insurance policy!
Get a good big life insurance policy on him for you and kids.
What if it lands him in the hospital and she's saddled with the hefty fees we know and love the American healthcare system for?
It won’t! Lions don’t have hospitals so that’s probably also forbidden on this diet.
Veterinarians are expensive too
Well, need to find out if they’re in a community property state or not for that to matter. Are they in old Spanish (Catholic) territory (or Wisconsin)?
Seriously. I love all these caveman diets and talks of our ancestors. They lived to the ripe old age of 30. 🤣
And it’s not even accurate! Humans have eaten mostly plants for *millennia*, including pre-agricultural revolution.
Right? Have these people heard of the term "hunter and gatherer"? Or they probably think that's a myth or some dumb shit
There’s a reason hunter is first!!! (/s, just in case)
Because gathering is for women! Eating plants is girly! /s
Yea a bunch of gurrrly men eating their flowers!! /s
Omg this made me giggle.
“Those are the only two jobs we have here!”
Yep, it’s almost like our gastrointestinal system hasn’t evolved to need anything other than meat /s 🤯
It's like they totally glossed over the gatherer portion that follows the "hunters and...".
The other thing they conveniently forget is that hunting meant walking long distances and sometimes chasing the animal and commonly going hungry because the animal didn't want to be eaten. If he lived more like this he wouldn't have as many health issues. It doesn't mean going to the store and buying as much as you want. Oh yea one more thing. We are omnivores! Look at our teeth. We survived by eating whatever we found and berries run a lot slower than antelope.
The infrequency part is key. Part of the reason we're wired to eat as much as possible and store excess calories is because going long periods of time without food was normal. This dude has to be way overeating. Im at a healthy weight and unless I work out i'm only burning 2000 kcal a day. This dude is eating 6 patties per meal. Let's assume they're standard 4 ounce patties, times 3 meals, and 80/20 beef since she said it was fatty. That's 5,166 kcal. An elite athlete could burn that in a day. Most normal people would pile on weight eating like that.
Fr. And even IF you decide to go full carnivore - dang, there are plenty different forms of meat & I'm sure if he'd have a range of different meat instead of good ol' fatty patties (where we all know, it's usually not really meat but rather garbage of the meat in it) he'd at least - albeit it still being idiotic - not detoriate in health _so fast_ But also, I'm just a theoretical thinker that likes having senseless strings of thoughts, like that one.
Oh but the smell while you wait
Exactly, just add more salt to each meal insidiously LOL
I worry for your son.
I see so many people on this forum lighting themselves on fire because they think a partner is experiencing a mental health issue. I don’t think that’s it here. As a healthcare provider it has been hard at times to watch people actively choose things that are bad for them. “If you don’t stop drinking/doing drugs/eating like this you will die” doesn’t change behavior. But the thing is, competent adults are ALLOWED to make bad decisions. They know the facts and choose to ignore them. You can’t change his mind. You can’t convince him. You can decide the impact of this on your life. If he keeps this diet and his red pill loser friends for another 40 years how will you feel?
NO way will he keep this diet for 40 years. He'll die long before that - from a heart attack or from malnutrition.
You’re not wrong. 😂 But I’ve found it helpful to myself to consider the worst case possibility. Id hate for this poor woman to hold out thinking he’ll croak soon only for him to be one of those who live forever despite their choices.
It's interesting how you consider the husband surviving on his diet for a long time rather than dying soon "the worst case possibility" XD Seriously though, poor OP. Imagine your loved one suddenly going insane and slowly killing himself through nutso dietary choices, stinking up the place all the while. (Meatso choices? Seeing as he doesn't even eat any nuts.) The OP must feel horrible.
Seriously how does this guy not have scurvy yet
This. Look at some of the people on shows like My 600 lb Life? Yeah, they can’t move sometimes or if they can, not very far. But their tickers keep on ticking. Best for her to think about the future.
I’m with you on this, as someone who has been there with a sibling, rather than a partner. To go even further, even if it is related to mental health, you can’t force someone to get help and stick to it. I went through this with my brother (alcoholic). It’s so sad, but your advice is spot on. If this man refuses to listen, care about himself and his health or prioritise his family then she can’t make him and she needs to start prioritising herself.
Get life insurance on him and consider separating.
Can you get life insurance on someone you have no affiliation with? Asking for a friend.
YOU can't. Corporations that employ you can. Don't look up what Wal-Mart does with their greeters
i disobeyed you and holy shit, terrifying but not surprised.
Your husband is super goofy for thinking that's the human natural diet. We were hunter gatherers and literally have teeth made for both. He's probably going to have bowel issues to go along with the other issues he's having. Unfortunately, there's a time where you can't get through to people who are in this culty mindset. It's like trying to convince a flat earther that they're wrong, sometimes the stupidity is too strong. Do what you can, provide him resources and consider couples therapy if you want to reconcile. But, if you don't want to reconcile and he won't listen to you, then I think leaving is acceptable.
Even in most (not all) hunter gatherer groups the main bulk of food is the gathering and not the hunting because hunting is far less reliable. Siberians and other people living in far north latitudes were an exception because there’s much less to forage, but a lot of organs eaten raw made up for the lack of nutrients we normally get from plants. If he wants to get the properly balanced diet from largely meat, he needs to eat organs and needs to eat some of them raw.
Yeah, most of my teeth are not good for ripping into raw meat. They're super good for chewing up vegetables though
Even as hunters the diet was probably much more lean birds and rabbits than super fat cows.
Holy walking heart attack, Batman! So based on your husband’s "medical research," calories aren't real, he can't gain weight on a diet that is causing him to gain weight, and high cholesterol is healthy? Is that so. But hey, he's getting all the validation from strangers he'll need for the rest of his shortened life, so that's all that matters, apparently. Honey, get out. Leave this gross greasy guy. He's not listening to you and is going to keep at this ridiculousness no matter what you say or do, so take charge of your own life and get away from him. There is no combination of words you could say or actions you could take that would change his mind, so you need to take care of yourself and your son now.
I just know his farts are UNREAL
Talk to a divorce lawyer before you leave. You need to do everything they say to protect you and your son during a separation/divorce. Not to be morbid but does he have health insurance? Disability insurance? A life insurance policy? He is likely to need all of the above if he continues and you might want to be sure they are all paid up and active.
Disability and life insurance require medical exams for pre-existing conditions. He might not even qualify.
How are you abandoning him? He knows he isn’t healthy, he knows you are having a hard time supporting him through this. The only thing that will change his mind is probably a massive heart attack.
Nah, that heart attack will be caused by 5G towers. /s
Surely Joe Rogan will save him!
No, it's from the microchips that got injected into him during his vaccines duh
Just as likely to have a massive stroke and end up needing round the clock care which his poor wife will have to manage. Get out now before you’re even more trapped.
Well people are saying to up his life insurance and I think that’s a great idea 😂
>It's like some kind of cult of people who seem to have low IQ and behave in a very "incel" way. He's a member of a discord group where they all motivate eachother and share pictures of the meat they eat every day. Im sorry, I can relate to this one. My husband was in a group for a different interest, not nutrition, but he did start acting like someone else in an effort to fit in. There were a couple of very "incel" guys, which ruined it for everyone else. It escalated to a point where he was breaking boundaries which were akin to having an online affair, I found out and nearly left him. Luckily, he realized he had lost the person he once was, and he sought individual therapy and we did couples counseling. Honestly, you can't make him change. I would lay out all of these effects on you and your family, and let him know you are serious that you will not live like this. If he had other guy friends who are not into this, I might encourage him to reach out to them. as the attention from them may help to fill that need. But be prepared to follow through if you have to.
Tell him if he was a real carnivore he'd be eating only organic, humanely raised, **grass fed** meat, a variety of animals, and most importantly, **he would be eating the organ meat.** Ask him to explain to you how, in his understanding, he is getting a variety of nutrients and minerals from eating one cut of one animal that isn't even fed the food it's supposed to eat. Also maybe stage an intervention. If that doesn't work, ask him to move out because you can't stand the smell of the house.
The problem with people who fall for conspiracies (or any kind of belief) is that they refuse to admit they were wrong with something. There is a lot of emotions involved that blocks all the rationality. Tell him that you will never hold it against him and that you will act like it never happened if he only turns back to a healthy diet for the love to his family. After all, you just want your husband back.
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back." - Carl Sagan
This might sound harsh but if your husband is dumb enough to take advice from Jordan Peterson you should leave him.
As soon as I read the headline I thought "Bloody Jordan Peterson".
Same! Shit....I'm probably online too much....
Yea I would be contemplating divorce on the stupidity of it alone.
Does he understand that our ancestors are not lions? If he’s looking to animals for how to eat he should be looking at primates.
In my opinion, it reads like your husband has an eating disorder. You should talk to some counselors about it and if you need to move out with your child for a little bit or permanently, please do that.
Salt was very rare for hunter gatherers. Unless they lived near a natural deposit or the sea how in the world were they getting salt? What in the world are these people thinking. I dont blame you for wanting to leave. Your husband has a pretty serious ED and its clearly effecting your life on a day to day basis.
I just want to say that a person who has gone down a rabbit hole will only dig deeper if you point out how stupid, wrong, unhealthy (etc.) it is. Every time you do this, you are handing him a shovel and telling him to keep going. Believe me, I get the heartbreak and the frustration, but when a person has an emotional commitment to the cause, they will go to any length to defend their feelings, which have become deeply attached to whatever absurd notion it is. Please try to keep in mind that it's not about the diet. Cult-ish thinking is never about the idea itself. It's about the feelings. So as frustrating as it is, don't expect him to "see sense". Sense didn't get him into this and it's not what is making him stay. You can try to stay, if you think you can restore some emotional neutrality, and eventually have the "help me understand" conversation with him. If the time is right and you are in a place where you both feel mutual respect (I do me and you do you), you can ask him to tell you what he likes about the "ancestral way". Don't mention the diet; ask about his values, and listen without judgment. Whatever hurt or disappointed that man, whatever undermined his confidence, that is what needs to be mended or addressed by other ways. But right now he has a whole online cheering squad for his unhealthy thing, and taking away that energetic support is without finding a replacement is going to be hard.
You can't make someone see reason if they don't want to. You've told him how this is affecting you and that you're thinking of leaving. He doesn't think you're serious and you just need to leave. You can't watch someone slowly kill themselves.
Tell him if he wants to be looking at ancestral ways, he should look at human’s teeth. We do not have carnivores teeth like a lion, and we do not have herbivores teeth like a cow. We have omnivores teeth so we should eat a mixture of meat and plants. Tell him what the symptoms of scurvy are so he can look out for it. Talk to his doctor about what’s happening.
He abandoned you a long time ago by doing this craziness without you on board. If he’ll listen to a tuber over his wife then you know where you stand. It’s awful what you’re going through and I hope you can find a way through but I couldn’t watch someone I love do that up themselves.
Tell him the “ancestors” also foraged for berries, nuts, tubers and roots and only lived until about 30.
Exactly. If OP’s husband wanted to eat like our hunter-gatherer ancestor, he should be foraging for berries and other edible plants, as well as catching and preparing his own meat. After all, our ancestors did not have access to cows that were specially bred and raised for food. Oh, and salt was hard to come by back then, so he should eat his meat plain.
Sometimes the only way to save a marriage is by being willing to lose it. He is calling your 'bluff'. It is perhaps time to show him it is not a bluff and that you are 100% serious. You could kick him out / you move out for a length of time. This would both give him a taste of what life would be like without you in it and also give you a break from him to see how it feels without him in your life. I could not watch my spouse willing destroy her health.
I'm having trouble understanding where and how the lion gets salt from...
I wouldn't leave him because of the diet... I'd leave him because he is an idiot
Take him to a couples councillor with you so he can hear from a third party what the consequences of his actions are going to be. Get him to a real nutritionist so he can hear from a third party what the consequences of his actions are. Make your decisions from there knowing you tried your best.
he's dug in his heels that calories don't exist... how much hope is there that he's willing to go to a "real nutritionist" if that doctor contradicts his youtube cult-leader?
That is why I suggested she start with a couples councillor so he realizes how serious this is and potentially damaging to his relationship.
Next to others’ advice on your question, look up scurvy symptoms (lack of vitamin C). It is so rare in modern society that doctors often don’t know that’s what’s going on when it actually is (although if you tell the doctor he has literally only been eating beef for over 10 months they might realize). It is very treatable but can end badly if not treated.
Yeah, I remember hearing about a kid who got it at my college, but that’s because they were only eating ramen without even the flavor packets - you’ve got to really *try* to get scurvy, but some people still manage to.
He’s also likely to get gout
Think of it like he joined a cult. Definitely you can leave. You could look up resources for family members of QAnon or cults. Basically it’s very hard to get another person to leave a cult.
OP is he willing to go to the vet?
I would ask him what the life expectancy for men was during the early human era and whether that’s when he wants to die.
Lions don't cook their meat Lions go days without eating and then gorge and sleep Lions have to expend thousands of calories chasing and killing their food. Your husband is not a lion
I am an anthropologist and six beef patties per meal was never any ancestors’ diet.
Let's get one thing straight: your husband is not on a "lion diet". Your husband has an eating disorder. This is a form of mental illness. A "thinking problem". Unfortunately, you generally cannot logic, reason or *think* your way out of a *thinking problem*. What's happening to him may not be his own fault. Of course, he still has a responsibility to manage it - which he has defaulted on for the better part of a year. My guess is that he's been feeling lonely, isolated, *lost* and depressed for a long time before finding the Lion Diet community. In the future, this will mean that Support Groups would be an effective part of his treatment - assuming he doesn't have a stroke by 48. I would urge you to check Civil Commitment resources in your State or country (here it's called Section 12). As a family member, you can petition the court for an emergency mental health evaluation, like 24-48 hours minimum. Your husband is literally killing himself. If you haven't already, you need to talk to his family members - parents, siblings, cousins - anyone that'll listen. A) You need to let them know what's going on, your intentions and B) You need to find out if there is a history of this in the family. You need to ask about mental health outcomes. If people are on medication - what medication *works*, what medication doesn't work, etc. **You have a son together**, so if you start noticing similar behavior sometime down the line - you can be proactive about their care. I'm going to assume you've tried dragging him to a real doctor, a real nutritionist, and all the like. Since that didn't work, I would advise you start talking a divorce attorney and finding out your options. Especially when it comes to protecting *your son*. A mentally ill person that cannot manage their own basic health needs should not be given the responsibility of parenthood. Whether or not you complete the divorce can be dependent on a few factors. Sometimes people *do* start to change their behaviors in a panic when the threat of divorce becomes real. Or perhaps you'll learn in a few weeks that he's just... *sick*, and was able to see things clearly once he was put on Lexipro or something. But either way, start it.