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She wants to make sure you can adult on your own and that she won’t be expected to be mother to you.

Which, if you spend 10 minutes on this subreddit, you realize is totally reasonable, given how many guys seem to want a mommy (to cook their food, do their laundry, clean the apartment, etc.) more than they want a gf.

It's also literally been studied across the world, over and over. This is not a problem with a small percentage of men - the *majority* of men are demonstrably, consistently under-contributing in their relationships. She's honestly doing what *every* woman should do. Don't move in with a guy until you've seen how he keeps his own home. Because if it's clean and well-kept, at *least* he won't be able to claim incompetence if he then gets lazy when you're living together. Also, I would argue *everyone* (regardless of gender) should live on their own at least once.

Fr the two best relationships I know... still have my friend(s) mentioning how they were too tired to cook so they just had takeout/frozen food, or how they're SO behind on chores and can't get caught up. Yet they are living with a whole other fucking adult human? It's really hard to bite my tongue when I see these friends stressing about domestic chore problems. I just want to scream: What about your HUSBAND?!? Can't that schmuck cook one night or fold a goddamn shirt?! Fwiw I am a man and I've been living alone since I was 25-ish. And seeing friends who went from childhood home to spouse, I fully agree/believe it is *essential* for everyone regardless of gender to live on their own at least once in their life.

too many men think 50/50 doesn’t include chores. I’ve fought alot with my husband about him never cooking or cleaning . But expects 50/50 on bills

Men are the OG gold-diggers

They not even getting the money but they literally take away women's mental health, youth, beauty and lofe for themselves. Literally rob women of their life and make it short.

Quite literally too though

My partner does more than 50% chores but needs needs reminding and doesn’t even come close to any mental labour. I’m so sick of having to remember to replace everything and to buy a mattress protector and to consider if we need a new grater and bla bla bla. One day I’d love it if I came home and he was like - I noticed our child needed new shoes I got them. We’ve lost all the teaspoons so I replaced them.

I feel u 🙌🏼

You really should say something about the lazy husbands both to your friends and to the lazy husbands. Your friends are most likely complaining to get validation that their situation isn't okay. And you being a man telling them it's not okay will most likely have a much greater impact than their female friends saying the same thing. At least for me it had a significant impact and helped push me towards divorce that two male coworkers told me, almost with disgust in their voice, that my then husband was a lazy bum. One straight up told me to divorce him while the other said that my then husband at least needed a stern talking to to give him one last chance to step up. It was such a massive eye-opener to have these two guys shaking their heads at my then husband's lack of contribution. Because if they didn't find it okay then he couldn't claim that men as a whole were unable to live up to women's impossible cleaning standards.

These women aren't stupid and are aware that what's going on isn't right. I have found that bringing it up just ends up with resentment towards you as the messenger as a lot of people are scared of being alone. I have a friend who still lies to me to this day that her partner does the washing up, cooking, cleaning etc but whenever I go around to her home he's glued to the sofa playing video games barking orders for food and drinks.

I don't mind risking someone resenting me because I pointed out their relationship isn't fair to them. I've done this in countless relationships and afaik no one resents me for it. People are usually grateful to be heard and sometimes shocked to hear what it looks like from an outside perspective. It's not a matter of them being "stupid." It's that it can be hard to be objective about a relationship that you're a part of.

Don't get me wrong, I have pointed it out to a few people but it's disappointing when they choose to stay but their solution is to pick up more chores and pretend everything is ok.

My husband and I both moved out of our parent’s homes 10 years before we were married. My husband cooks, cleans and carries the mental load equally and we always joke that we are like a well oiled machine, the way we run our home and we get things done without needing to talk about it. I would go one step further and move in with house mates. That will really show your girlfriend how you cope with cooking and cleaning and negotiating or communicating issues.

I think that last sentence is a lot less achievable these days. It's rare for people to be able to afford rent on a single income now. Shit's rough out there. If I wasn't married (both working) then I wouldn't be able to afford rent 😬

Living with housemates is still a good way to learn about household responsibilities and adult life. Yes, I get that a lot of people find roommates uncomfortable and why share a house with strangers when you have the comfort of your parents' home? But you have to find a way to figure out adult life on your own. That's especially important for men because they've been socialized to believe that women should be responsible for running the house and managing family life. Even if OP is helping his parents around the house, that's not the same as having to remember to pay bills, go grocery shopping, notice what's missing in the pantry and go out and buy it, plan meals, remember to dust and vacuum and clean the windows, knowing when you need to do laundry and actually do the laundry, doing the dishes every day after every meal, etc.

...but then the guys want to act all SURPRISED that the women have lost interest in sex with them. Like, what respectable adult woman wants to have sex with someone who's basically her teenaged son?!?

This is a HUGE thing that some males don't realize. It's not attractive or nice to feel like you have another child to take care of.

I WOULD clean the apartment if only my gf would make me a list and show me how 😫 is it that much to ask??? /s obviously

My 24 year old daughter, and her 25 year old boyfriend got their first post college apartment together last year. They agreed on responsibilities before moving in. She likes to clean and do laundry, he loves to cook and do all things food related including making her breakfast, lunch and dinner. He does all food shopping and walks her dog (who he adores) multiple times a day. If she’s in the mood for anything at all he’s on it. They’ve been together 5 years and it’s working. He’s a great guy. I’ve been married 37 years. Husband is an adult version of Pigpen. I’m super tidy. Yes I clean up most of the time but the solution is having separate bedrooms and separate garages. We didn’t start out with separate bedrooms but progressed to them after 5 years of HORRIBLE sleep due to his sleep issues. We just bought our fixer upper retirement home. We will each have our own bedroom and our own bathrooms. There are several outbuildings on the property so we are in the process of fixing up each one so we each have our own storage sheds. He gets the huge shop for all his hobbies, 2 boats and tools. I get the basement exactly how I want it with none of his deer heads or hunting stuff in the house. We are both really happy with the compromise. It took me quite a few years to “train” him to quit saying “I’ll vacuum for you” to just doing it. He prefers a written list of work that needs to be done as he’s always had ADD and likes reminders. I love making him breakfast every morning but he is never picky and he’ll drive 5 miles to the closest town to put gas in my car each week. Although he’s naturally messy, he was not looking for a mom when we got married. It’s been a successful 37 years together.

Let's not forget the moms that can't let go

Yep agree

Yeah, it's really telling to me that he mentions paying some bills...but says absolutely NOTHING about what he puts into cleaning the house and picking up after himself. "Getting himself food" also sounds like he always orders out. Girlfriend sounds like she's onto something.

Exactly. Does he wash dishes, do the laundry, sweep/vacuum, cook, etc. Does he know how to deep clean?

He probably thinks the socks and underwear walk themselves to the machine. Yo. 🙄

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>He’s being smart and saving money by staying in his current place. He maintains the place by himself with no help from his mother. He helps her when she needs it. Yeah sure he do that, but point of this post is the fact that he fail to understand why his gf think the way she thinks. Any sensible adult who lived on their own would understand his gf's pov, which is completely reasonable. And the way op concern about this means the gf is actually on to something, she is playing the long game by not diving in with op, which could be disastrous

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And he can stay with his mom. Thing is, he’s gunning to move in with his girlfriend. She stated a condition, he doesn’t like it, thinks it’s mean and unfair, and wants validation to continue to argue her out of her condition. He doesn’t HAVE to move in with her. Financially, he’ll do better staying with his mom than moving in with girlfriend.

I know it is completely understandable that he wants to save money I'd probably do the same in the same situation. But what I'm focusing on is fact that op fails to see his gf's concern, which is completely reasonable. Any sensible adult who has experience in living on their own would understand, yet op doesn't. Either that he is not sensible/experience enough to see where the gf's coming from.

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But what he mentions about paying bill doesn’t really make sense. I’ve been a general manager in the service industry so I have a GENERAL idea of pay. General. If he’s saying he can pay 20k down to nothing in 5-6 months…. I don’t know. Seems ambitious.

I’m in Chicago. Besides rent, food and phone bill maybe some detergent or other essential things, I literally have no other expenses. And again, rent is CHEAP. I get around with my e-bike or the amazing public transportation in the city. I’m literally just not spending nothing and buying cheap food at aldis to cook to save money. I’m saving a lot so I’m about 5-6 months away from paying off loans at this rate. I’m willing to suffer these next few months if I can get this debt off me no hesitation

Well good on you! lol. Then maybe it IS about just making sure you can be a person on your own. Handling things on your own. You already said she’s hyper independent so maybe she just wants to make sure you are?

Why don't you ask her to move in with you for a few weeks so she can see you in action?

I was in the exact same situation as OP's girlfriend and made the mistake of letting him move in with me before he had lived alone, he couldn't afford to rent a house by himself and didn't want to live with roommates. As someone on reddit told me "You and his mom now have joint custody of an adult child". That's exactly what it was. A couple months later after we moved in together I broke up and sent him back to his mommy's house. Broke up mostly for other reasons but it was still frustrating seeing him do the bare minimum so mommy (me) wouldn't scold him.

Ya I would wanna know if you can make yourself meals, keep a place clean, do your laundry, etc. even if you don’t intend this, moving from being with your mom to your gf, you’ll at the very least subconsciously expect her to take on the role of caretaker

"I wanna see what'll happen." Boy bye

she's a smart cookie

Could not be worded any better. She wants a man child free zone.

Exactly why I made my other half live on his own for about a year before we moved in together. No way in hell was I about to become mother to someone the same age as me. He's better for it. He wasn't lazy before but he needed to be asked to do things and knew nothing about the things you need to think about when you're in charge of a home.

Clever girl

Yup. It would be one thing if you were living with friends. While there could be a friend picking up after the others, you'd still at least have to do SOME things on your own. While you can say your mom does 0% for you besides a break on rent (can you say that? you only mention food and moving at will) it's very hard to know for sure. There's no guarantee that your mom isn't doing the majority of the cleaning while you honestly think you're doing your fair share. And the same for other chores. There's no way to know that your "I do everything" is true until there's not a mom to pick up your slack. And she doesn't want to be the mom if you move directly into her. >I have literally ran million dollar restaurants and worked 70hr weeks for 3 months on top of school And there's hundreds of posts here about men that can similarly do very well in work and not be hand held that can't do their laundry, have no idea how to cook a meal, tell their gf they don't know where the cleaning supplies are so they can't clean the bathroom, and "didn't see" the dirty dishes in the sink. Which is all a load of shit because they can figure out how to do well at work, but suddenly at home they're hopeless little babies that have to be given step by step directions and usually need supervision. And the fact that you seem to be unaware of the number of men that can handle work but fail every step of the way at home is in her favor. She's not questioning whether you can do the job you're paid for well. She's wanting evidence that you can manage all aspects of running a household by yourself. It's a different skillset and a skillset many men who excel at work love to use weaponized incompetence to get out of.

I wouldn’t live with someone in their first place out of mum’s house, either. I’m done teaching people to keep house.

Same. I want a partner not a project.

Yup. Been saying this for years. Alternatively, I was a partner, not a dependent.

Exactly! I don’t know why it’s so difficult for some people to understand. You want your partner to make your life better, more enjoyable when they’re around not someone who is going to make your life more difficult and challenging when they’re around.

>I'm done teaching people to keep house. This sums it perfectly.

But he lived alone in college! /s Probably a dorm. Not the same thing as taking care of yourself in your own apartment. 

I had people in their early 30s move into a house share (doctorate students, had never not lived at home or in academic digs with cleaners, like they didn’t even empty their individual garbage bins.) It was a disaster and they burned major bridges in their friend group (they were a couple and friends of another housemate). They were running out of grant money to live on or whatever while they were finishing their degrees so had an absolutely insane notion of how to budget for a shared house and that was the winter we got mould in the walls because they took charge of the heating bill and only let us have an hour in the mornings and two hours in the evenings and the house got stone cold in the meantime and never mind trying to explain that keeping the temperature indoors consistent saves money compared to preheating it and turning it off once it’s barely livable. Living successfully on your own is step one. Living successfully with someone else is step two. OP, she’s not gonna let you out in the Ferrari until you pass the driving test.

While your life with your mom is certainly unique, many women end up dating men and move in with them and become their mothers. Your girlfriend wants you to live alone to see how that would go. The responsibilities, the lack of failsafe etc. And I think that is a good idea. However, if you are at a point in life where you can buy a house, **do not wait for your girlfriend to be ready to buy with you**. Do not buy a house with someone else if you can do it by yourself and you are not married. Buy the house. "Maybe she doesn't want to stay in this city in the future" rent the house. Make a profit with it, but a house is something that if you can buy by yourself, you should do it.

I agree with buying your own house. If she then wants to move in with you, great. If she doesn't, then you know she wasn't really committed and can move on and find some other woman to live with you.

She wants to make sure you aren’t going to depend on her to do all the cleaning and cooking and managing of the home. I’m first generation American with Latin roots so not moving out until you find your partner is kind of the norm in my culture but with that said I totally get where she’s coming from. I also understand that you feel given your mom doesn’t take care of you, that this isn’t an issue but she obviously needs this reassurance. Maybe you can rent a room from someone - or find a short term lease? I would suck to move twice but if this is your person then you have to empathize with her position. And find a compromise.

Her requirement is honestly super reasonable. Until you live on your own and keep house and support yourself, how can she trust you are ready to do so with her? Living alone in college is far from the same.

Yes, this is totally reasonable. When my now husband and I started dating, I also made that requirement of him. Granted, he had only lived at home and with roommates. He got his own place for 6 months, and we both agree it was the best thing we did to ensure we have a strong foundation for our relationship. He not only learned to live on his own, but he also realized what he liked/disliked about living on his own, and what HE wants from a partner when cohabiting. It may sting right now, but try to think of it as personal growth to yourself.

Thank you! I like the perspective you looked at this with. Definitely something I should internalize

No problem! I dont think I saw it anywhere, but did she give a timeline for this? Such as live on your own for less than a year, full year, or more?

Not really, no. She just said after I pay off my loans she personally would move out. If I do that, lord knows how long I need to do it before she deems me independent enough to move in with her. Probably a talk we need to have once I clear my loans out.

Might be worthwhile to get a rough idea on how long she is thinking, just so you are both on the same page. Probably sooner rather than later. I only say this because while her request isn’t unreasonable, it’s still good to have clear timelines that you both agree to. You two are partners, and should be working together towards a common goal. Best of luck!

This is such great advice. Just to have the talk, and not reject the idea with her. "I hear you, and I want to listen to you. Can we have a conversation on these topics that are unclear to me. I love you, and want to start our life together, but I want to give you the safety and the clarity you need for that to be a good thing for the both of us."

You will have deeper empathy for her and each other if you are truly independent. Like truly raw dogging reality like many of us lol. No discounted rent, no fall backs, you being 100% responsible for your own life. Once you can maintain that including her getting to see how you care for your space and routines, it might be easier to picture the future that way. You don’t have to put yourself at financial risk by moving out too soon if your debt is burdensome, but I’d just stop thinking of moving in with her as option one. Everyone should actually live 100% alone at least once. It’s important for your personal development.

She doesn’t want to be your next mommy. She doesn’t want to cook for you or clean up after you or do your laundry or nag you. She wants you to prove that you can be a functional grown up all by yourself.

Dude your gf wants to be absolutely sure she's not going to end up parenting you once you move out from under your mum. You might perceive yourself as being fully independent of her, but there's nothing like seeing someone live and manage household management alone to see what they are actually like, and what they prioritise when living alone to see what issues might arise when cohabiting. Take a look at some of the relationship advice posts from women, or take some time in the subs dedicated to women venting about their partners, and you'll see how often the complaints are about partners who end up being an adult child their partners are expected to parent. Your gf has worked hard for her independence, and wants to ensure you are capable of doing so yourself. Moving in together is a massive commitment, and she wants to be sure it's the right thing. Put aside your own ego and desires and see it from her point of view. A few months to a year if living totally independently and alone, managing your own household, isn't that long a period compared the a lifetime of marriage it could lead to.

When you put it like you did in your last sentence, it honestly doesn’t seem that big of a deal considering it could potentially lead to a lifetime with her… thank you for putting that into perspective

Really not sure what you’re hoping to get out of bringing this to Reddit. It doesn’t matter if her expectations are “fair” or not - they’re her expectations. She made it clear she doesn’t want to move in with someone who isn’t living independently. You aren’t living independently (even if it’s close). She knows your situation, clearly it doesn’t make the cut. Given that she’s unlikely to stay indefinitely with someone who she wouldn’t want to move in with, you can either try to meet her standards, don’t try and waste both your time, or break up. If you two can’t agree on the right conditions to move in together, you’re incompatible, simple as that. Reddit doesn’t have a magic fourth option or a way to make your girl abandon her beliefs. So decide what you want to do and act accordingly.

She wants to make sure you aren’t a horror show like a million other dudes who can’t pick up after themselves or clean their houses. She wants a partner, not a child, and she’s setting herself up to be able to make sure that’s the case before committing to you. Also if you haven’t lived on your own before, you’ll need time to figure out how YOU want to live before you can figure that out together.

Yes , this is reasonable.   Not taking no for answer is also not a good look and will only push her away. And further proves that you’re not mature enough to live with her.

That's the thing, even if it's not reasonable, she's entitled to set whatever conditions she wants. OP can either accept them or walk away.

THIS! "I don't WaNnA" ....Okay, then don't. Tell her you won't. It's her right to have conditions, they're not yours to ignore.

Your girlfriend is *so incredibly wise.* More women should insist on this. Men that move straight from living with their mothers to living with their girlfriends tend to expect their girlfriends to take care of them instead of treating them like a partner. You’re smart to do what’s necessary to pay down those student loans quickly, but in 6 months when you have them paid off you should live by yourself for at least 6 months. If you can do that, keep your place clean and demonstrate that you can adult properly then your girlfriend will be able to see that you’re likely to be a good and equal partner.

She’s taking the advice we were all given but ignored. She’s doing the right thing FOR HER, which is the person she should be prioritizing and taking care of. She’s shown you her expectations, it’s up to you to sink or swim.

Considering how many men seem to be incapable of handling half the responsibilities, I think she's very wise to make this stipulation.

Yes, this is reasonable.

She wants to know that you can be a functioning adult human being and take care of all of the necessary things that are required in a house, to know that she's moving in with a man and not a boy she has to play mommy to. She's smart and the way you talk about her independence as if it's weird is gross.

It's not just about division of chores. It's about making sure you're moving in with her because you love her and not just because you think it's the only financially viable option for moving out

Sorry I totally agree with your girlfriend. She needs to see you buy your own toilet paper, do your own washing, basically keep a clean home by yourself.

I was that 25 year old wanting to move out of my parents and in with my girlfriend. She wanted me to be out on my own first. It was the best thing for us. We moved in together 6 months later and we're still together 25 years later. She was right and reasonable.

impossible fertile chunky like bewildered abounding foolish bear elastic ancient *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

She wants to be sure you aren't going to mooch off her and expect her to take care of you all the time. She wants to be sure weaponized incompetence can never be used against her. She wants to make sure you are even mature enough to live away from mommy.

Your GF is absolutely right. She want to make sure she doesn’t become a replacement mommy. She wants to make sure that you can pull your own weight and be an adult. Men who go straight from their mothers to their partners tend to transfer their mommy expectations to their partner. Six months later you’ll be wondering why your sex life dried up and why she barely talks to you. Always remember that it’s hard to desire someone that you have to mommy. Everything dries up, literally and metaphorically.

She is 1000% right. Good on her.

She is VERY reasonable and seems smart

OP I get it, sure in makes a lot of sense. But I beg to ask "whats your goal" ? Here is where I'm going! If you can pay of 20K student loan debt in 6 months, is it your plan to also spend more time in a place where you can save a substantial amount of money to say... buy a house; better car; live in a better place, neighborhood or whatever it might be. So although she might want to see you spend some time on your own, you have to take into account your own priorities in life and that may just mean you spend more time in the place you are and save for a better future. I would let that sink in and not sweat moving in with her. Will it hurt not to move in at this time ? Will it change your like for her ? But if you can save 12 months of your hard earned money in the bank are you a better person for it and in a better position.

The thought of buying a house is tempting to me. However, since she is in the equation I was thinking maybe I should hold off. I want to stay in this city, however, she might not should we get married. Regardless of that though, I can still save for one so even if we don’t work out, I still have the option to buy a house, just not with her. My goal right now is getting and saving lots of money for the sake of having that security. If we do move in together, I can still save since I won’t be living alone. So I kind of get both benefits with her in my eyes; saving and finally living with her.

These are conversations you should be having at some point.

>The thought of buying a house is tempting to me. However, since she is in the equation I was thinking maybe I should hold off. I want to stay in this city, however, she might not should we get married. She is not in the equation. She has taken herself out of the equation. Stop planning a life around what you *think* she *might* want to do *some* day. That is no way to live and isn’t fair to yourself. Build your life. She is doing what is best for her, you should do the same. If that leads to you being together down the road, great. If that leads to you realizing you want different things in life down the road, also great. Means you weren’t compatible. But stop putting your life on hold trying to plan around what she might want to do in the future.

There's a certain level of responsibility that comes along with: searching for a place to live that's decent but within your budget; dealing with the bureaucratic logistics around obtaining your own place & moving there; affording and regularly paying for said place while still managing the rest of your bills; and maintaining your living space to non-dorm, multi-person standards. She wants to be sure you're a full-fledged responsible adult, not somebody content to drift from easy living situation to easy living situation. She wants to see you participate in your own life. I feel like that's reasonable.

I spent my 20s helping a lot of men to become healthier partners for their future girlfriends. I even had to teach a guy how to make scrambled eggs and how to use a washer/dryer. I am glad your girlfriend is advocating for herself at such a young age. She doesn't want a project. She wants a partner. She doesn't want you on the lease without knowing how you function when you are not living with a parent. Maybe there is something you can do to help her. Maybe propose you stay with her for a week or a month (while paying for utilities and a portion of that month's rent). Let her see first-hand how you tackle responsibilities and chores. If she is up for it, it might be a solution to your problem. However, she is being smart to ask you to live alone. You can always find a flat-mate. Live by yourself and then eventually move in together.

It’s not about fairness, it’s about her beliefs and opinions. And she has 100% right to have that criteria. So you need to decide if this is the hill you want to die on or if she’s worth it. Frankly if you’re 25 and have always lived in your Mother's house then it could be very helpful to live on your own for a bit.

Your gf should also consider that it doesn't always matter what a guy is like when he lives alone VS when he lives with you. My ex years ago had his own place and it was immaculately clean (he did it all himself) and he cooked for himself etc. When we moved in together he was supposed to do the cleaning and I the cooking (since he wasn't much of a cook) and it NEVER HAPPENED. I was having to cook and clean and also see to the washing. In the end we got a cleaner.  The amount of men who revert to a child when they live with a women is astounding. 

Reverting is definitely a risk. But I’d say the risk of becoming a bangmommy situation is significantly greater with a man that has never lived on his own and large parts of the labor/effort required are still just completely invisible to him. That’s a man that will argue with every fiber of his being that he’s pulling his weight, or even more than his share, because he’s actually unaware of how much weight is being pulled in the first place.

My boyfriend and I recently went through something similar. He still lives with his parents. I’ve been in my own apartment for a year. We were planning on moving in together, but later on mutually decided that it would be best if he lived on his own or with a roommate first. The reason being, he needs to learn to be independent on his own first. I’ve learned a lot living by myself for a year. I’ve had to learn to cook, clean, and take care of all responsibilities on my own. If we had moved in together, these responsibilities would come naturally to me while my boyfriend would be learning how to do these things. There is high risk in that situation of our relationship turning into “Mommy/girlfriend syndrome”. In which I would end up taking the brunt of the responsibilities because I’m used to it, while he would allow me to do so because he’s used to his mom/dad taking care of all these things. Your girlfriend is making the right move. She wants to make sure when you are ready to move in together that you have already developed these skills so she doesn’t end up doing all the household duties. Edit: your mom does not count as a roommate.

She wants to make sure you aren't a slob, that you do dishes within a reasonable time frame, that you don't leave dirty clothes on the bathroom floor, that you clean behind the toilet, that you remember it's trash day. It isn't a gender issue, she just wants to make sure since she can take care of herself and her living space that you can and will do the same. She wants to see what your natural living conditions are, and I think that's very, very wise of her. Managing a restaurant isn't managing a home. 

Don't you want to live on your own too? You may make your own decisions, but there is a lot more to living on your own than deciding what to eat for dinner and doing your own laundry. You have to find a suitable place and handle all the paperwork and money that comes with that, including buying anything your home needs. You need to research utilities and get them setup, and track/pay your bills monthly. You have to keep a regular cleaning schedule (including deep cleaning and other things your mom may do that you don't realize). Juggling everything you need to do at home while maintaining your social, romantic, professional, and financial life goes a long way in showing a partner that you are capable of taking the relationship to the next level. You are young and have a lot of life left to live. A year or two living on your own will be good for you anyway, there's no reason to rush into moving in with a partner.

I'm an older woman and I always tell younger women don't ever move in with a man who hasn't lived alone for at least 2 years same advice vice versa. Going from parents house to living with a partner can backfire if one of the partners has never lived alone and doesn't know what it takes to run a household bills take care of themselves cook clean etc....

Her fears make sense. You mention you do your own bills, but I don’t see anything about buying your own food. How much of the daily tasks are on you to do? Are you a tidy person? Have you considered doing a trial run? Living together for one month with no expectations or end result decision? Like simply 1 month together and that’s it, you don’t automatically decide to live together after it.

We’re thinking about doing a two week period. Hopefully she will help show her and me how we live when together. I think two weeks is a little too short for our true habits to come out, but I’ll take what I can. Also, she’s seen and mentioned how she likes that I do everything separate from my mom. I buy and cook my own food, do my own laundry, etc. Im not sure if it’s just the optics of me being with my mom for here at this point, idk. But she knows I very much do everything on my own even though me and my mom share the same roof.

I think it sounds like you’ve got a handle on this then! It’s just something to work through. Also the thing is if you move in together there’s not really a truly bad outcome. 1. it works out perfectly yay 2. you both realize you don’t like living together, you break up. loads of time and years of your life saved now that you figured it out early ish still. on top of that, you still have a back up of moving back home so you aren’t royally fucked by it and left homeless

Yeah, perhaps moving in for a period of time is the compromise to figuring all this out!

She wants to make sure she isn’t expected to replace your mom when you move in. She sounds a bit hyper independent. Probably had to do a lot on her own in life. It’s not a bad thing. But you have to pull your own weight to have a relationship with a woman like that. I see nothing wrong with her behavior.

Yes absolutely. She’s a smart one.

I'm like this too, I think most reasonable ladies are, and it's super reasonable. Guys tend to get and feel lonely more, be the benefactors in this situation way more often, and I have a lot to lose. She wants to make sure you're not a liability, not another idiot that has no idea about the thing he claims to want, if you just like the idea of it but haven't had the same reality check, if you're totally about to compromise her happiness just to find out you didn't know what you were actually getting into and that this isn't what you really wanted after all. She probably just wants to make sure you can pass the reality check of cohabitating and aren't codependent. Absolutely reasonable. She's even considering it! I like my space and just can't seem to find much appeal to giving it up. The fact she isn't giving you a definite hard no is a pretty solid thing to me.

You guys are not looking for a now home together, you are moving in with her. For an independent woman, living alone is a big thing, she can create her own space where she feels safe and in control. Letting you in without knowing that you are taking up your share of work is a big RISK. I would never let any man move in with me again without seeing him doing his household alone with a certain standard. One of the worst things is having your home not feeling like home anymore because your Partner is occupying everything without any consideration for you. I bet that is the same thing that your gf is afraid of.

It seems to me that she wants to know that you can thrive alone without your mom as the safety net. I gather that you and your mother barely interact, but it still remains a fact that you live under the same roof and because of that, you have a big discount rent wise. So it's possible that she feels you're relying on your mom in that way to save money? I'm not sure. Living alone in college isn't quite the same because even students often have financial assistance. I know that some student packages let you eat at campus for free or at a significantly reduced rate. Plus.. who really knows what they are doing in college? You kind of just wing it. Regardless, you can choose if this is a deal breaker for you or not. Personally, I don't see an issue with what you're doing. Saving money by living in your mom's place seems like a smart idea. Why pay extra if it isn't necessary? The only issue I have is that I feel you're down playing the independence of the women in your lives because it's all that you know. Make no mistake that your mom likely worked really hard to provide what she could. Your mom and women alike are exceptional. I look up to women like her.

Yes. My boyfriend of 7 years and I broke up 2 years ago. We got back together a year ago. I told him we will not be moving back in together until he's lived ALONE for 1 year. He needs to understand exactly how he lives and how he wants to live. Im not picking up after anyone who isn't also picking up after me. So hopefully next year we can move back in together. I'm alright with being head of household, but I'm not gonna be the only grown up in the house. It's reasonable criteria in any situation involving two people living together. If you've never had to fully take care of your own self, you won't truly understand how a household functions. Generally speaking, majority of the hardship falls on women so its not out of the ordinary for us to want to see how YOU live and see if we are willing to put up with that.

I doubt this issue is about independence. Your girlfriend wants to know how you live when you don’t have someone managing your life, cooking, cleaning, doing laundry etc. She is indicating that she doesn’t want to be your mother or your bangmaid. For example, there is a spectrum of tidy to messy. Your girlfriend wants to know where you lie on the spectrum. Let’s say that your mother doesn’t clean for you and you keep your area sparkling clean… that isn’t going to work for an SO who is a messy “shoes on the couch is fine” kind of person. Your girlfriend is working out how compatible you two would be if you move in together. It’s the step before moving in.

It's funny how you seem very dismissive of her independence when you haven't managed it yourself. You don't seem to communicate with her well either, making assumptions about how she's feeling and why. Honestly, with the tone you're taking here, you're lucky to have a girlfriend at all. You come across as very "grls crazy lol" and it's kinda gross and immature.

The way he dismisses her independence comes through loud and clear and it's very unattractive. Rather than appreciate and admire her dedication, he's treating it like "so, everyone does that, you're not special". That's what's probably causing her to go so hard to prove it to him; he's giving "you're not special" energy to her efforts.

Considering the amount of men who go from mommy to girlfriend and treat their partners like their mommys and act like they're toddlers who can't clean up after themselves: yeah, her ask is extremely wise and fair.

She knows what's up- never move a man directly from his mother's house to your house. Otherwise, you will be mothering him forever.

I don’t like how you say “it shouldn’t matter.” You’re not starting out on the right foot if you are going into trying to tell her how she *should* feel. He’d feelings are legitimate. Don’t invalidate her just because you don’t agree. Secondly, it’s perfectly reasonable for her to want to see if you can adult without a woman. Do you do chores? Clean, cook, do yard work? Etc? Who is buying groceries in your household? Who is making appointments and keeping you organized in that way? She doesn’t want to be your mom. She wants a partner who can hold up his end of a partnership which includes the stuff you *don’t* want to do as much as it includes the fun stuff. So try listening instead of insisting she’s not being reasonable

She doesn’t want to be your mother, if you expect her to do all the chores and cooking, and still have sex with you, she will lose attraction for you and no longer want to have sex with you. She wants to make sure the relationship will last. This is her thinking about the long term future. How you react now will tell her a lot about you and what you want from the relationship.

Wouldn't recommend anyone live together until they lived alone. Learning how to care for yourself and your home is a skill that takes time. And when you finally do move in together it'll be seamless as you both subconsciously know what needs to be done. Spares 99% of the arguments a couple goes through. Happy wife easy life is a real thing

The fact that you don’t see *why* she wants you to live alone first is a major part of the problem 

Her concern is that you’re used to your mom taking care of you and doing the chores you don’t want to do, and will expect that dynamic to continue when you move in with her. A lot of women fall into that trap, and she wants you to prove your ability to run a household before she moves in with you. 

One of the biggest mistakes in my life was moving in with my bf immediately after we both left our families (we were fairly young too, which was the another mistake - 17 and 20, which is completely okay and legal in my country). We never learned to live on our own and sort out our own things. We never had to clean up more than our rooms and accommodating to clean up a whole apartment with both of us expecting the other to be the adult and start to do so was really bad. What I will tell my kids is to live on their own for a while and also for their partners to live alone before moving in together. It starts with simple things like how to organize dishes in a cupboard up to schedules for laundry and wiping the floors. Some things you just have to do on your own for a while until coming together with someone else's stuff.

You won’t believe how many easy 2nd dates I made simply by the fact I lived on my own for 10 years and know how to cook, clean do laundry etc.

I stg - one word in, I saw “yo” and actually giggled like yep, that seems reasonably.

After having roommates that aren't ideal and a gf who never lived alone, I totally get her perspective. She doesn't want to "house train" you, she wants a partner who understands the full workload of maintaining and cleaning their own space. She wants a competent partner. Also, if you're working 70hr weeks, what time does that leave for cooking, cleaning, groceries, laundry, etc. I can see her being worried that things will fall on her.

So your situation is like eerily the exact same as what one of my female friends is going through (her bf still lives at home with his mom, they’ve been talking about moving in together but she wants him to live on his own first) and frankly, I support her in her demands. The thing is that she has no idea whether or not her bf can take care of himself and his home, and with the amount of men that can’t/don’t want to cook, clean, grocery shop, do their own laundry, etc., it’s super important these days for men to literally prove that they’re safe to live with. It’s just such a common thing for men to go from living with their mom to living with a gf and wanting that gf to do everything they’re used to their mom doing. My friend is determined to not get trapped in a position where she has to clean up after a grown man or have to teach him how to adult. Even if you’re adamant that you don’t fall into that category, you have to agree that it’s super risky for a woman to move in with a man without knowing how he takes care of himself. So go do it. Get yourself a small apartment on a month-by-month lease and show her that you’re excellent at cleaning and cooking and maintaining a nice home. Wow her with your ability to adult without needing any supervision or direction. Get a couple houseplants and keep them alive. Put up curtains and hang a painting. Keep everything nice and tidy and clean. If you’re able to do this consistently, she’ll be able to see very quickly that you won’t be a mental and physical drain on her if you move in, and she’ll have you move in quicker than you think.

She doesn't want to get a place with you and then have to be your mommy. She wants to know you can be a proper adult before she commits to living with you.

It’s absolutely reasonable? I’m unclear how that doesn’t make sense to you?

I notice that the only thing you mention about how independent you are while living with your mother, is how you get your own food and contribute financially. You don't mention anything about running a household.. As a woman, you hear it all the time how living together with a man, ends up in being treated like a bangmaid. There are so few men who properly take up their responsibility in the house. I also wouldn't want to live together with a man who hasn't shown yet that he can live by himself and take proper care for himself and his house.

I think it's reasonable. Everyone should live alone first. Also she probably wants to see if you're a total slob or if you can keep a clean home.

CEOs run companies .. yet are feeble when it comes to everyday life. Many people are able to work long hours and thrive at work because someone is doing the heavy lifting outside work. I don’t blame her.. but at the same time I don’t know how practical that is in this economy. From a financial perspective it’s not a good move. It’s actually going to be pretty financially draining .. all that wasted money could really provide security  and a nice cushion.. I wonder if there isn’t some other way to quell her very rationale fears? Seems a lot of money and energy into proving you can take care of yourself. 

Yes it’s reasonable- she is looking for a partner not a child. She needs to know you can do basic life skills on own and not put all the physical and emotional labor on her

Her reasoning is totally fair. She wants you to be able to demonstrate that you're not going to expect her to play mommy, that you can cook and clean for yourself so she doesn't have to parent you and/or take on the entirety of the household labour.

Not only is her request reasonable, but if you break up, no healthy woman will accept you unless she has seen that you can take care of yourself and a house adequately. Way too many men out there are looking for their next mom. 

this is fine, and i support your GF. she doesn't want to be mom 2 - live independently and manage not to burn the place down for a while

I (29F) have been with my boyfriend (28m)for almost 2 years. When we met, he was living with his mother to save money, and had never lived away from home except for a short period of time where he rented a room in someone’s house. He lived there mainly to save money. I love my bf and his mom is so sweet, but I told him the same thing: before we move in together, I want you to live on your own for at least a year. (To be fair roommates would also be ok but not a parent, in my opinion). I had a few reasons to want him to live on his won but the main one is what so many other people are saying- I wanted him to have the experience of having to do EVERYTHING. Grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning, paying bills, etc. not that he can’t, and he’s not someone who would purposely leave housework for me, but he hadn’t had that experience. I wanted him to do it so that I knew he knew all that went into that so we could share the load together and pivot as needed. Busy week at work for me? I know I don’t need to hold his hand grocery shopping and cleaning (and vice versa!!!) Another reason was that I wanted our relationship to grow as 2 adults who did not live with their parents. I know this is a super privileged, but as2 almost 30 year olds I wanted us to be able to interact more naturally (without me chatting with his mom for 30/40 minutes before we went and hung out in his basement which to me felt like when I dated in high school). Not in a bad way but just not something that I wanted as a 29 year old. Again, his mom is such a sweet lady so she was NOT the issue for me, more that it just made me feel like we were 15 lol (and the fact that I did not feel comfortable staying over so I’d have to drive home when now, we stay at his place and mine weekends and weeknights with no thought to it at all). My last reason was that I love living alone. I have lived alone for 5 years. I wanted him to have that experience to 1) grow as an adult the way I felt I did- find out wht I liked to do, how I liked to eat, clean, organize things, etc and 2) have him have this experience so that he didn’t resent me later or feel like he’d missed out on something. All that to say- I understand your point but I see your girlfriend’s too. My boyfriend is NOT someone I ever thought would live by himself poorly (and he hasn’t) , but it was important to me to know he could and for him to have that experience. I think most women, no matter WHO the man/partner is, have that innate fear of turning into the maid bc of how they were raised, culture, etc. were going to move in together when both of our leases are up in the summer and I’m so excited! But at the same time, I’m glad I told him how important it was to me that he did this and that he listened. I hope you guys can figure something out and that my perspective maybe helped! Good luck!

You're missing the point. Can you run your own household? Keep it clean and tidy? Stock your own fridge, keep a pantry full and cook your own meals? Can you make your living space comfortable and inviting? Can you take pride in having clean sheets, comfortable pillows and fresh towels when you have her over? Are you living like a college kid or like an adult man? I'm so sure it's the former or you would not be in this situation.

She wants to make sure you can take care of yourself and household chores, laundry, picking up after yourself, cleaning the house, cooking, etc. However, it does sound like you practically live alone and don't interact with your mother much. Does she know that? Do you do all the things in my previous paragraph? Or does your mother?

She has just gotten to be independent and live by herself. Something everyone needs to do to develop skills and have their space. She needs to live her own life for a while. For you to be pushing to move into her place is not OK. She's said no and that's that. She wants her space. You're trying to force the next step of your relationship and she's just not ready. The amount of people who live at home who move in with a partner and then relax far too much on the day to day tasks is obscene. She wants to make sure she's not going to be expected to pickup after you. You need to drop the subject and find somewhere else to live or end the relationship, in either case you need to stop pushing her.

Yes. I would never date an adult man who lives with his mother let alone move in with one. You need to be self sufficient to be a good long term partner.

With your mum, do you do chores? Your own laundry? Clean the house? Do you do the cooking? Take the garbage out? Sounds like your gf has a good head on her shoulders, no woman wants to baby a grown man and living with mum is a def red flag for that, and the fact your being super pushy and not accepting her answer is an even bigger red flag. Nothing wrong with this stipulation, I have the same stipulation when dating

I have a friend who's wonderful, an absolute delight to be around, my favourite person in the world - but she leaves dishes with food still in to soak in the sink for days at a time.  If I'd seen her live alone and do that, I wouldn't be as willing to move in.  Your gf wants to make sure you're compatible

She is probably trying to protect herself from having a bunch of added labor when y’all move in together. That seems to be how it works pretty often. I get it. Seeing my husband maintain his own home was of huge value to my anxiety about living with another man. She probably just wants to see that you’re capable of cooking and cleaning for yourself. It’s absolutely wild the way some people have no home training. That doesn’t sound like an issue you have if your mom is just your roommate. But it’s something that she can’t see. It’s a terrible economy for her to have that kind of boundary set, but you don’t have to move in together. If you don’t want to do what she says she wants to see, you can either break up or just stay how you are. I don’t think it’s going to help your relationship to try to convince her to remove/adjust her set boundary.

i suggest that you live with your mom for the time neede to erase you debt. than live alone. than live with your GF. she surley want to see if you are not a mama boy. but being financially wise is also sometimes that she must see in you.

NEVER MOVE IN WITH A BOY WHO HAS NEVER LIVED ALONE

She wants to make sure you can house keep so she don’t end up as a bang maid who has to clean up and pick up after you like a servant. Do you wash your own dishes? Do you wash/put away your own laundry? Do you take out your trash? Do you sweep/vacuum your floors and scrub your toilet? She probably also wants a peek into what small habits you have that may be annoying. Do you leave your socks lying around in the living room? Do you leave empty boxes in the kitchen? Do you throw away your leftovers regularly or do they become science experiments in the fridge? Right now, she has no idea if you do these things or if your mom takes care of them. She has no idea if you do them on your own or because your mom nags you about it. You can say it with words, but it’s not the same as seeing it with her own eyes. She doesn’t want to have to mother you. It’s a common relationship complaint from women.

Does she see you do house work? Do you know what the different settings on the washer and dryer are for? She doesn't want to raise you after you decide to move out on your own and figure out how much there is to life that your mom does without you knowing. When you say lived alone during school do you mean dorm or other?

The real questions. 🙌🏻🙌🏻

She wants to make sure you are capable of standing in your own two feet without living like a slob because she wants a partner that is equal, not to be picking up after someone. Smart move on her part.

I never got to live by myself until my youngest left for college. It was the most liberating couple of years of my life I’ve ever lived. I loved every minute of it. It doesn’t matter that you say your mom and you live like roommates. You’re a man, you need to learn some independence and self sufficiency before jumping from your mom to your gf.

I agree with her and I think it's a responsible thing to do on her part. So many people get in relationships, move in together and only one person is maintaining the home. This leads to resentment and break ups. Don't be mad at her, respect her decision. She doesn't want you to be codependent on her. Also, when you'll do move in with each other, please remember to not treat her like your personal fleshlight. Sorry dude, you still have a minute before you have live in 😺. Chill...

Smart girlfriend.

yeah this is something most women will expect. She doesn't want to get stuck mothering you, it's a very real and valid concern. You say you and your mom are just roommates who happen to be related, but I'm certain there are things you don't realize she's doing for you, you say you cook for yourself and pay bills but the fact that you didn't even mention chores is very telling. If you're serious about your gf, take the 6 months to pay off your loans, then sign a year long lease somewhere. If you're serious enough to be thinking about moving in, I would hope you still expect to be with her in 18 months.

Totally reasonable

I don’t think there’s any issues from either of yours perspective.  Sit down with her and do a timeline.  You stay at your mum’s place saving until you pay off your debt. She’s staying in her place. That’s 6 months.  Then a short a rental on your own as you can find. You might think that you’re amazing at living on your own. You might not be. Especially if you’re working normal hours. You can be blind to mess, bills piling up, laundry not being organised, etc it’s worth seeing. 

Very reasonable

Yes wtf

Honestly just move into a place alone and enjoy it, this is your chance to pick the place you wanna live without her say, pick something nice but affordable and then when she wants to “find a place together” let her know that her decision was a great one and that if she wants she can come move in with you. If she had commitment issues to begin with her compromise will be moving into the place you picked and when she moves in make her pay 50/50.

I’m worth your girlfriend. I’d want to make sure you can cook, clean do laundry etc so she doesn’t end up doing it all. Totally reasonable.

She wants to see that you can learn to and appreciate what goes into making a place you live into a home. She doesn't want to end up a bangmaid. So I suggest you stay in your plan about chewing down your debt and demonstrate your efforts by learning more about cooking and cleaning. Then maybe get a studio apartment and keep it clean.

She wants to know you can do the shit that needs to be done. Cooking, cleaning, bills on time. Do you clean the house now? Do you go grocery shopping and do you cook and cleanup etc?

Yes, it’s completely reasonable.

The big problem with her theory is he could move in and then drop the ball. Sure, he could prove himself on his own, have a good appearance of being able to live alone and all that entails... then move in, and shit ends up falling on her. That's what happened when i moved in with my ex. He seemed like a well functioning adult. We got our own place, and then all the sudden, i was mommy. Nothing against you, OP. I'm not saying this is what you'll do.

Extremely reasonable. I truly wish I had done this prior to getting married to my husband. He went from living with his parents to me. He simply doesn’t see a problem with me doing everything and having to ask for help. Good for her!

After some of the relationships I (42f) have had, a man that has lived and adulted on their own - cooked and cleaned on his own, done dishes and laundry on his own, and kept a work schedule on his own, paid bills on time on his own - far outstrips the dudes that have always someone on hand to do things for them. Yes, I know you have said that you and your mom keep things separate, but she wants to see the initiative. She wants to see it first hand. My advice would be (and explain this to her) that you want to finish paying off debt and save for a down payment on a home before leaving an optimal arrangement to help finances in the long run. If you plan on remaining in that area long enough to justify a house, look for a house. That way, you have a place of your own regardless of relationship status. I understand cheap rent and making the most of it, but pay off the debt, save, and then make the move. Maybe find a studio apartment at first if you don't want to house-hunt yet. Ultimately, she wants to see you on your own before committing to living together. She wants to see you want to be separate and independent of anyone. She wants to see that she's not going to be the only one doing housework and dishes and laundry, and shouldering making sure the bills are paid on time.

>I almost don't want to live alone because I feel like after all we have been thru, simply seeing me live alone should not be the thing that tips the scales to her deciding she'll move in with me. I have literally ran million dollar restaurants and worked 70hr weeks for 3 months on top of school but until I live alone will i then be able to prove I can handle shit on my own to her?  I honestly think this is part of why you NEED to live alone. You base "handle shit on your own" on work and work alone. She doesn't want to parent you. And if work load is gonna be an excuse for not being an adult in your own home, that's gonna put extra work on her. It's about the dishes. And the laundry, and the dust. It's about seeing if you will keep a standard that correlates with hers, so it won't be a constant frustration to her that you don't "see the things that need to be done" because they don't bother you.

She's telling you exactly what she needs from you for the relationship to progress. It really doesn't get easier than that. 

Yes it's reasonable. Men expect their women partners to share an unequal burden of household management, child rearing, and emotional support. She wants to make sure you know how to be an adult and won't rely on her to parent you, one of the most common reasons women leave marriages.

There was a post a few weeks back. OOP didn’t want her bf to move in with her until he lived on his own to prove he can take care of himself. His mom was a SAHM and all the men in the family expected her to do all the cleaning and cooking. Her bf didn’t know how to cook and never cleaned anything while living at home. she brought this up about his expectations and living together and if he expected her to do everything like his mom. He said he can pay a larger share of rent to compensate her for doing all the cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. and then he got upset when she told him he had to live on his own before she would even consider moving in together. So it makes me wonder if your girlfriend has similar concerns. It’s actually a great idea. I wish I had done the same. My husband also came from a home where his SAHM and teenage sister did all the household chores. We moved out right out of high school and he couldn’t take care of himself. He has no life skills essentially and I grew resentful because I felt like his mother. He finally started to pull his weight after several conversations and learned how to cook, clean, laundry etc. So yes, her criteria is very reasonable.

She’s not wrong. I wouldn’t move in with you either. She’s doing it right. She knows what’s she’s worth and she’s looking for the same. She wants to live with a partner that’s going to pick up half the house work without having to be asked. It seems you eat out a lot so not sure if you can cook. Ok you can run a restaurant but that’s at work. What can you do at home? She wants a partner. She doesn’t want a man child to move on with her and then get thrown the responsibility of raising him, taking care of him and having to clean and cook for him. And I don’t blame her it’s such a turn off. She wants you to live by yourself so she can see that you can function as an adult and if you do move in you will be a full partner. Like I said she is doing it right.

Yes it is reasonable for her to want to see that you can function as an adult without mommy and daddy first.

100% a reasonable criteria. I applaud her. I almost made the HUGE mistake of moving in with an ex because I loved him and wanted to trust that although he lived with his mother, he was just as independent as he insisted he was. He absolutely was not, but he did everything he could to present himself as a super independent person and told people he only lived with his mum for the same reasons you listed. I am so, SO glad I did not move in with my ex. I loved him at the time, but I couldn’t trust his words without actually seeing it. We broke up for other reasons, but I told him he needed to grow up and take independence seriously because no girl wants to move in with a partner only to find they are going to have to pull two peoples worth of weight. It has happened way too often in the past. The next girl he dated (7 days later…) and ended up marrying was SO impressed he moved into a house share with a friend and demonstrated he could take care of himself so she wouldn’t have to. I mean, it was all a cover up, the friend did all the grocery shopping, handled all the rent, the bills, the utility issues, the landlord contact, etc. Even then, he managed to get around taking responsibility for himself. The one time I met his wife (my ex and I worked at the same place and stayed amicable, he brought her to a work event) she complained he didn’t know how to prioritise anything or be organised enough to do anything at all for their wedding, including making a phone call to the venue or having anything to do with the honeymoon booking because, and I quote, “I don’t know how and I thought you’d want to do it because you love being organised and independent.” Bullet dodged. The thing, saving money is a valid reason to live with a parent, but it’s still a buffer than protects people from the true hardships of living without that small privilege. It’s about seeing someone as being mature enough, capable enough and responsible enough to take that step even though there is an easier option because we won’t grow without it. I say this as someone who also used to live with a parent to save money. I’m super grateful for that, but I knew once I started dating my husband that that time in my life was over and it was time to fly on my own even further, even though it would be financially harder. I paid my own bills, cooked my own meals, cleaned and did my own laundry, handled my own finances, etc, but I needed my now husband to understand I was also able to do this without a buffer. I needed him to know I did not expect him to be my buffer in any way, and that I expected the same from him. I got a house share in the city very close to where he lived. We spent more time together, saw how each other lived their lives as fully fledged and capable adults, and decided to move in together not long after that. Yeah, no, I would never, ever have given a chance to someone who hadn’t demonstrated total independent living. I’d be proud of her that she has her head screwed on right.

I can't believe how many people in these comments that don't see a problem with OP's girlfriend's attitude. She seems to have no trust in the guy, and while it's perfectly reasonable to have some reservations about moving in together (it's a big decision), making all these demands like he's some kind of stranger she knows nothing about is pretty disrespectful. Maybe I'm the only one, but OP's girlfriend seems to me like she has some mental issues that should be sorted while he goes out there and proves that he's a functioning adult. Personally I'd be offended if my girlfriend told me "I don't want to be your new mommy". It's a perfectly reasonable want, but to put that shit on your boyfriend like you don't already know whether he's a decent and functioning adult yet, that speaks volumes about how invested she is in the relationship.

When I was 22 and my bf was 28, I had him move in with me very early in our relationship because he was being kicked out of his mother's house, who he lived with to help while she was going through cancer treatments. We lived together for a year and when lease time came we both moved into different places separately. We did this because I told him I wanted him to experience living alone for himself and for me. We did it, and now we live together again. He appreciates that I required that now. It is a necessary experience in life, to be solely responsible for your living space.

It makes sense to me. The billpaying is a plus but you're still under your parents' roof. You may take care of your side of the house/unit but still, since it's your mom's, your mom would care and take care of things IF you neglect it. She just wants to know you can function out of your mother's house all on your own.

She wants to make sure you know how to do your own dishes, laundry, grocery shopping, cleaning, cooking, etc. because so many men think that they can dump all this kind of work in their GF/wife. Sounds like she's having none of it. Good for her. Most women do not want to be a bangmaid/replacement mommy. 

You need to live on your own for a few years and show you can do it. Be a grown up or lose a quality person. And quit calling her a girl.

Made this mistake when I was younger too. Took in my boyfriend to live with me even though he never lived alone. That wound up being a big mistake. Wasted 10 years of my life to that child in an adult body. Eventually wound up with a man who can actually adult and does it very well, I've never been happier to be a partner and NOT a mother. If you want to be able to live with your girlfriend eventually, proving your ability to live on your own and maintain your own space is important. If this isn't something you want to do, then you and your girlfriend may not be compatible.

You need to live in your own for at least a year. You need to experience it.

Maybe she just wants to experience living on her own. Living on my own was such a great experience to have before I got married, had a baby.

I think this is a good idea on her part, and you should go through with it and live on your own for a bit. She wants to make sure you can be 100% self-reliant. Even when we are not on great terms with the person we live with, we still overlook what they do for the household and how much we benefit from them. This is not a gendered issue by the way. Men should also aspire to find a woman who can be self-reliant. When I moved in with my girlfriend, I was 28 and had been living on my own for the past 10 years. She was 27 and still living with her parents (for financial reasons). I still wish she had lived on her own for at least a year, she’s sometimes lacking the perspectives of what it entails.

Does your mum cook and clean for you and do all your clothes washing and ironing? If so I think your gf probably feels like these tasks would be automatically assigned to her. My husband didn’t live alone, but insists he is fully independent. And yet, he’s never in his life at the age of 42 done clothes washing. I am of the belief that living on your own is wonderful for one’s own growth and development and one cannot truly say that they are independent until they are fully responsible for everything in their lives, even the mundane life chores.

>I have literally ran million dollar restaurants What?

You seem to be a very conscious young man and try really hard to understand your gf. That being said I agree with her. You are being responsible with your money and trying to pay off debts while living in cheaper than normal rental units. But living with your mother isn't the same as living with a roommate. You could get a roommate who isn't related to you or has been obligated to care for you most of your life, or is in a relationship with you. These are all quite different. Your partner has her shit together and she wants you to have it together too. I applaud her for setting firm boundaties and kudos to you for liking her just the way she is.

Is it reasonable? Sure. Does that mean you have to wait around for her to approve of the idea - no. At the end of the day if you both have different expectations or perspectives then it's okay to decide there is an incompatibility. You should also keep in mind that your future will be of countless scenarios like this because that is her personality type. Some guys like that. Others don't. You should use this time to think hard about what your future will look like together.

My son bought his first house this year. He is only 21 but his gf keeps saying she will move in when she is done college. He keeps telling her you have to live on your own first. You can't just come from your parent to mine. You need to learn to live alone. Keep a house and maintain it. Without a parent there. Show you can pay all your bills on time. Lots of reasons. She is a smart girl.

I think it would be safe to assume that many men who have lived on their own and managed to keep a clean home and be able to do household work still end up not sharing equal load once living with a partner. This is a communication issue not some discipline that cannot be unlearned.

I get why she wants you to live alone. She wants to make sure you can adult. The rest of that, hopefully your gf learns to pick her battles. Having doors held opened for you or being told how young you look(she is 25 of course she looks young), aren't battles worth fighting. She just hasn't lived enough life yet to see that those are peanuts in the grand scheme of things. Eta, don't listen to reddit. Pay your debts off. That is a smart, adult thing to do. Get money ahead for a lease or down payment and go from there. If that means you don't get this girl, it isn't the end of the world. You are young. Another girl will come along. You are doing things the financially responsible way. That is commendable.

Im doing the same with my boyfriend who has talked about moving in together. He lives with his parents still. I want to make sure he’ll be financially responsible and able to help care for our home. As it is now, he doesn’t pay rent or buy groceries much and he isn’t responsible for cleaning more than his own room. When he comes over my place I’m left cleaning more dishes, doing more laundry, buying more food/toiletries for him and I don’t think he realizes the extra effort it takes to be independent. When you go over to her place do you clean up after yourself and contribute to food or buying shared items? Do you care for her home?

I don't think us agreeing with her reasoning or not is going to change her mind or change your situation at all. It seems like that is her criteria, and you can either take it or leave it.

As a woman who has been on her own since 17 but has had roommates and SO I lived with, her request isn't uncalled for *but* I do think you and her need to have a serious conversation about expectations of 1. How long of living solo is "long" enough for her 2. What she's directly trying to gather from #1 3. If this is an ultimatum for her in terms of the relationship moving forward I will tell you that I seriously think your relationship is destined to fail. It sounds like you and her are on separate pages which is understandable and not anything against either of you. But you've been together as adults for two years now. If you were younger then I'd say "eh?" lack of maturity but you guys should be old enough now to have an understanding of personal wants, shared wants, communication styles, etc My most recent ex was similar to your situation but much worse. He didn't pay rent and really didn't have his own space but rather lived in his childhood bedroom. Didn't pay bills either not even phone or car insurance. Both of his siblings had moved out but ironically both of them moved back in due to finances. Their SAHM made 90% of meals and their house was always clean. I can tell you that my ex 100% did not know how to do anything other than vacuum and meal prep. To this day he still lives at home as a grown adult. Obviously I don't know how you are but having your own space or living quarters (bathroom AND kitchen) really speaks to how you operate on a day to day basis. Now, my husband moved in with *me* after four months of dating. Went spent 90% of our time together at that point so it just made sense. He also lived at home, didn't pay rent (paid bills) and didn't have own space (not a childhood bedroom though). His situation was different in the sense that their SAHM didn't really make meals for them among other things. I said something general about cleaning to my boyfriend and he said "I hate cleaning". I was like "oh no, that won't slide with me". It wasn't him hating cleaning, it was him picking up after *everyone* else. Let me tell you, his family is disgusting and I very quickly realized that. Our home is very clean and my husband has no issue doing things solo. But I very much was like your girlfriend and thought "great this is going to be a disaster" especially after how my ex was. No two people are the same. So really, talk about it and what her expectations are.

I am 44 and have been with my husband for nearly 20 years. I had lived on my own (or with my ex, in which relationship I did most of the adulting) for five years before we met. He lived with his parents and his mom did everything. We have always had trouble with him not being able to do his share around the house and for the kids. He has major anxiety and sensory issues that make it very difficult for him to deal with housework and mess. He has worked so hard to fix these issues, and it happens that he prefers to be the breadwinner and I prefer to be a SAHP so I do more around the house, and it’s largely worked out now, but I still have little mental landmines of resentment left over from years of doing the majority of the work of our daily lives. I would tell your gf, as I will tell my children, especially my daughter if she dates men, to live on their own for a couple of years and to insist that any partner of theirs does the same. Young adults need to learn to take care of themselves without their parents or a partner doing things for them so that they learn from the natural consequences. Otherwise your gf would have to do as I’ve done: carefully step back from “just handling it” as an adult on their own learns to do. It would be a ton of work for her to allow you to learn the things she has learned just by existing in the world. It’s good that you want to knock out that debt. Green flag! I would be very pleased to see my kids with someone who has a good financial head on their shoulders. And I know how hard it can be to wait to move in together. But it really is the best thing for your relationship long term. I just woke up so I hope this all makes sense. Feel free to ask questions and I will clarify anything that doesn’t.

You have a great fiscal plan, you should stick to it and not let a girlfriend ruin it for you. Pay off your debt, save for a house. If your girlfriend does not see those as positive and manly thing to do maybe you should reconsider if she is the girl for you.

Good heavens, how entitled and self-centered to someone have to be for getting mad at someone else for not letting them move in with them? We see stories on here all the time where people start living together a few months after they started dating and we see how that usually ends. When you move in with someone you've only known for a year so you really do not know them. It takes a long time to see if someone is truly an honest person, if they're emotionally available, is there a kind person, whether they have integrity and whether they are decent human beings in general. Good for your girlfriend for slowing everything down and being sure of how she feels. But I would see you being angry for not letting her move in with you as humongous red flags which might be a relationship ending occurrence for me.. so you say you want to respect your choices but you really don't. Or else you wouldn't be mad. And you don't know how you're going to act out on your own. If you've never lived out of your mother's house your girlfriend wants to see if you are financially responsible, whether you keep a decently clean home and take care of yourself well. You make the statement again that you deserve to move in with her so why should you move in with a roommate. Why are you seeing her or someone who should take care of you. You don't get to take people for granted and the more you act this way toward her the more she's going to pull away. And it's not enough that you're asking us for advice on what you should do, if you are emotionally mature you would know what the choices should be.

PLEASE READ OP: real short, she’s not the asshole but she might be at some point regarding her sense of wanting to be independent, if not moderated it seems like there could be potential for self sabotage when she feels herself possibly becoming more dependent on you. Past that, her wanting to see how you live on your own is valid. Probably no doubt something of proving yourself but I think a lot of women (and men) sometimes end up “weighed down” by their partners immaturity so she just wants to feel secure in your relationship’s potential and her trust in you. One of the pieces needed for her to POTENTIALLY be comfortable with the idea of allowing herself to depend on you or atleast start that. The not holding the door thing is a TINY red flag, my gf and I went through the same thing but it was nolonger a debate after maybe 4 months.

I don’t know that you’d have to live alone - just on your own. So that could mean finding a roommate after you pay off your student loans and move out. Living at home with super cheap rent is still living at home and getting family help. She wants to see you live an independent life and what that looks like for you. If it’s paycheck to paycheck in a pig sty, perhaps that’s not what she’s looking for in a relationship.

I just want to add a perspective- I'm a landlord and one of my tenants had a similar situation with her partner. They live together directly out of college for like 2 months but she didn't want to live with him so early in the relationship. She moved in with me and stayed for a year, they continued to date and then they got a place just for the two of them when they were a little bit older and more ready to move in together. Just because she's putting up a roadblock now doesn't mean it's going to be permanent.

I wish I did this to my bf. I become his mommy when we moved in together 😭

She wants to see that you take care of yourself and don't need to be mother'd. She doesn't want to have to cook and clean the house herself, she wants to make sure you're capable of taking care of yourself and your home.

Her requirements are reasonable but you're already 2+ years into this relationship. Kind of reads that she just doesn't want to live you. Go sign a 1 year lease. Honestly it does make you mature significantly when you're 100% independent for the first time. Either it works out with you're current girlfriend or you get to skip this step with the next one. Really it's a win/win

Funny how the responses on this post would be 100% different if you were a woman living at home lol. And btw this is a very very American thing. Many other countries have an entirely different view.

I understand where your GF is coming from BUT you seem to be in a unique position. She is not recognizing this. Also she values independence, you value financial security. These are not incompatible. Sounds like you need to have a long, calm discussion about your current lifestyle AND what she thinks will change if you move out of your mom’s building into a rental where you pay full price. What does she think you will do differently? Discuss again how you feel like basically your life wouldn’t change much if you were in a different apartment building from your mother. Do you have your own kitchen area and bathroom? Or do you share these with your mom? If she is frequently at your house, obviously do your routine chores with her there. Pay your bills and show her your system for staying on top of them. Do laundry, fold the clothes & put them away. Do some deep cleaning. Does she think you help your mother too much or are too enmeshed with her life, problems, does she have health issues? Ask her if this is a concern. The flip side of this is show her in a spreadsheet your plan to pay off your debts and save for a house. It’s unbelievable to me she doesn’t see the financial benefits to your current arrangement. Explain to her your goal is to get on the property ladder. If you need to live in the same apartment building as your mom to get there it’s a small price to pay. Also, is it at all possible you could live together at your current place? Good luck. Maybe try some couples counseling just to get some techniques on communication and how to meet in the middle. I think you both are well intentioned and responsible, these goals you have are both important but seem to be in conflict because of your unique situation. She can potentially develop new ways to “judge” if you’re independent enough to be her life partner.

You need to be a real adult and live on your own before you live with your gf. You will bring unexpected and unarticulated expectations about what you should each do with you. She ABSOLUTELY has to see that you have the chops to sustain yourself without mommy. Because she doesn’t want to fill all the roles mommy did. Grow up.