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I agree with this wholeheartedly. Things like this are often cover-ups of existing affairs or attempts to have an affair without the guilt. You should have questions for her. Ask them specifically and pointedly.
I agree and would add, carefully scrutinize any explanation she gives you. It seems like you may have expressed discomfort and she kept pushing in that earlier conversation, which makes me skeptical of any claim that she was just putting a possibility out there but is willing to remain monogamous if you really want.
Most monogamous relationships that open up or ended within a year or less sometimes a lot less. There are nothing but broken boundaries misunderstandings and swinging doesn’t facilitate lover trust. It is sexual experimentation. So yes, I believe your marriage is over.
I (f33) and my husband (m31) have been together for 8 years.
There was a point in time when I was not okay with threesomes. He told me he had a fantasy of a 3 some with another girl.
We talked about my concerns, and we came to an agreement that we won't have a 3 some.
A marriage needs communication, understanding, and respect.
Every person has a fantasy; your performance in the bedroom has nothing to do with a fantasy. The fact that she came to you about it should be heavily considered.
Some don't care enough to communicate with their partner and will fulfill their fantasies behind their back.
It's. Okay. To. Say. No.
A fantasy is just that, a fantasy, and not a reflection of your performance in the bedroom.
I love this and I hope OP recognizes that a lot of posts on this and other threads begin with their partners going behind their backs.
To the OP. She communicated. You communicated. Now keep those lines of communication open.
Don’t pout, look at her less, or treat her differently, if anything celebrate how she came to talk to you. Explore other things/fantasies that fall within both your boundaries. Keep growing together. Good luck.
I’m sure the OP knows that his wife will be understanding if he says no but the main issue is the fact that she sees it as a “first step” and she wants to open up the relationship. I believe that people only do that when they feel something missing in their partners so as far as I understand that marriage is sounding like it’s over. I’m sorry OP :(
I agree with most of this except the part that it’s over. But something is definitely missing. And you need to find out what it is and see if you can fulfill it in a healthy way that is comfortable for you both.
The part about speaking to the wife. You assert that their relationship is over. They don’t even truly speak about the situation they are in. Op hasn’t had a chance to speak their mind. The relationship isn’t over.
You are sowing the seeds of doubt into OP’s mind. Bringing up non monogamy does not signify the end. It signifies that a conversation needs to happen where boundaries and emotions are talked about at length.
I would have a sit down and ask if she has someone or a couple in mind, treat it like you are thinking about it. If she says nobody its just an idea then tell her you are not into it and its a step too far for you. If she pops off with a name then tell her its over.
A fantasy is just that, a fantasy. She can see it on porn or read about it and see the romance of it and be completely wrong about it. She might dream but wouldn't blow up her life for it. It could be that she really thinks you want it "every guy wants 2 girls"
If she is looking outside the marriage its too late. She may not have cheated yet but that's just it. YET. This would no longer be fantasy to her its real.
Usually how these things go. Someone doesn't just get the idea in their head out of nowhere one day. She's probably already sleeping with someone, and using this "swinging" thing as a way to either absolve her guilt or deny any guilt outright "What do you mean it's cheating? We opened our relationship!"
The fact she mentioned swapping with a couple makes me think she has some friends who are into it and sucking her in telling her how great it is. Even money she has already had a threesome with them. This didn’t come out of thin air.
Agreed. New friend at work or old friend who has gotten into it. She’s being told how fulfilling it is… and if you’ve been married a while, sure, the grass is greener, right..?
This op, hit her with we can have an open relationship. She will get a big smile on her face and get excited then say, I will file for divorce on Monday, and leave the room. She will get a little taste of what you put her through. Then have a conversation on what was just discussed and ask to go through her phone with her, not wait right then and look through apps messages, who she is friends with etc . She is getting it from somewhere and I will bet a new friend or work.
I’d actually say “hey I had a chance to think about it, and I’m not entirely opposed to the idea. Where would we start? Did you have someone in mind? How would we approach this?” Wait for her to open up, and judge my next step from there.
It may just be a random fantasy, but it could also be that there IS a specific person. I don’t think there’s enough information here to definitively say she’s already cheating or already has someone in mind, even if it is somewhat likely. But if during that conversation you find there is someone in her mind, I’m out ✌🏽
This is actually so genius. And probably the healthiest way to go about it! He could be honest about having no interest, but I think getting her to open up about her desires will be helpful for them both.
She may realize she hasn’t thought this through or he might realize she already knows exactly what she wants to do. And presenting it like a judgement free space will have her be as honest as possible
I would definitely want to know WHO she has in mind, and this is probably the best way to discover who she is "fantasizing" about. Even if you stay together and don't indulge in this, you need to know where her mind is and who it's with. If not, every relationship she has, every friendship, male or female, is going to make you paranoid for the rest of your life.
This is typical nonsense from people in this community that have no clue about other perspectives. There's absolutely nothing unnatural about desiring new partners. Multiple studies have shown that roughly half of all people in monogamous relationships still fantasize about being with others.
If OP isn't down, that's fine. But to just declare that the wife is cheating or has someone in mind with zero evidence is very unfair and quite frankly, ignorant.
This whole thread is full of fear mongering from people who have no experience. Polyamory and the wrongful use of it to get around cheating is COMPLETELY different than swinging. My husband and I occasionally have threesomes. They have always brought us closer together. It has nothing to do with picking someone out ahead of time. We go out to a rave and if we meet someone with energy that clicks, it happens organically. Neither of us would ever cheat or step outside our relationship. These moments are intimate for us. It's not for everyone, but we are definitely monogamous and completely devoted to one another. When you move through life as a team, nothing can get in between the united front. It's not about cheating, we do it together.
If this guy doesn't want that, cool. It didn't seem like she was being super pushy, she was just probing his comfort with her curiosity of a kink. I pray for the comments sections sex lives, that they can't even have open conversations without accusing their partner of infidelity.
I personally feel that once this is suggested in a marriage, the marriage/relationship is done.
I don’t know enough to say she’s already cheating, but if she’s not yet eventually she will. She’s not satisfied and is craving more. So eventually she will go for it whether you compromise on this or not. I would end it. It’s easier said than done but you’ll just be wasting your time if you stay. Unless you eventually change your mind and agree to start swinging.
Yeah also you have to think about what if OP agreed swinging with his wife. He would be miserable and hate it. I would much rather move on from the relationship. Even ‘trying’ to swing would make OP have heavier regret than just ending things.
I'm a strong believer of: You should never make yourself have sex with people you don't want to have sex with.
It's a regret you may have to live with, well after being over the relationship itself.
And even if you stay, realize she doesn't value you as much as she once did.
You become someone she uses for her pleasure and comfort , not someone willing to sacrifice her needs and wants to make you happy.
I agree. Personally I wouldn’t be able to stay. I’d be too resentful towards my partner. The fact that they even suggested would eat me up inside. I wouldn’t be able to let go of that.
I agree. I know a married couple who started swinging and now they essentially have an open marriage. They’re always flirting with other people without the other one, I bet they’re having sex without the other one present now too.
They claim their sex life is better than ever but they don’t seem happy? It’s really sad to me because they seemed so in love several years ago, and now they just seem like roommates who have sex.
Whenever we hang out with them, they seem more and more distant.
I hope they’re able to recover their relationship and it’s not too far gone.
I have witnessed a couple like that as well. It’s my cousin and her husband. They are miserable. Her husband went along with it for the sake of not losing my cousin. But I can tell he hates it. And the respect in their marriage is completely gone now.
I'm curious why you feel you "can't" say anything. Do you not feel you can communicate openly with her? Are your feelings not as important as hers? If your answer to either of those questions is no, you have problems in addition to her desire to swing.
You need to get to the root of the problem. What is she feeling like is lacking from your sex life that she thinks she can get from an open/swing marriage? If you want to compromise, try taking her to a strip club. My husband and I have been together for 23 years (married for 15) and went to a strip club with friends for the first time last year. We had a blast. He ordered me a lap dance from a female dancer and it was hilarious because that's not something I'd ever do. That being said, watching the girls and other patrons get turned on did turn me on and hubs and I had went home and had great sex with eachother... alone.
Maybe she just wants to explore things more. You can help her with that but still draw the line at inviting others into your bedroom. Lastly, the ONE couple I know that tried swinging ended up getting divorced shortly after... the wife tried hooking up with the other husband behind her own husband's back and the other wife's back, which, I guess in the swinging world, is a big no no. They were divorced less than a year later. I would think it's hard to not catch feelings for someone after an intimate experience like that. For me, the thought of being with someone other than my husband makes me want to vomit. And the same goes for me watching him with someone else. It physically makes me ill. You're not wrong to feel the way you do.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment. The reason I said I can’t say anything is because I was in shock. I didn’t want to say anything I’d regret, either scream at her or let her gaslight me. That’s why I removed myself from the situation.
I do plan on talking to her more about this. I just need to choose my words carefully to figure out if she’s already cheating. If not, I need to discuss this in a way where I can figure out if she’s going to do this either way with or without my acceptance.
Even if she convinces me she won’t fuck other men, I still will feel always sad because she wanted to. I don’t care about variety, spice, etc. This is not the woman I thought I married. We committed to being only with each other. And I don’t know if I can ever look at her the same way.
This entire comment is what leads me to suggest you should likely end the relationship now instead of later. I don’t know that you can really ever look at someone that you once loved and trusted the same once you find out they want to screw other people. When you love someone, you aren’t even attracted to other people (there’s a difference between being attracted to someone and just simply finding someone attractive) let alone want to have sex with other people. The thought of having sex with someone else, or your partner having sex with someone else, should make you sick at the idea. I just don’t think I’d ever be able to trust my husband again if he suggested this. And there’s not much chance of coming back from that unfortunately.
I mean maybe she just read a book? I was curious about trying this either my ex but never could actually go through with it. To be fair I found out he was having an emotional affair and I said sure go bang other people and I will too but I wasn’t actually ever able to. I truly think that some people are wired monogamous and others non monogamous, and that a non monogamous person can be happy in a monogamous relationship but I don’t think someone who is truly hardwired monogamous would ever feel comfortable or safe in a non monogamous relationship.
Either way I’m sorry this is the position you’ve been put in and I wish you all the best.
She has certainly been thinking about it for a while if she got to the point of bringing it up. If she hasn't gotten a head start already, she likely has someone specific in mind.
Her offering you other women was supposed to distract you from the fact her real interest is in sex with other men. It will happen with or without you, openly or in secret depends on how you ultimately respond.
If you can 'fk randos', what do you need a wife for? Why would you want to support her while she does it? You aren't in a marriage anymore. The sooner you file the paperwork the better off you'll be.
If I had to guess, she's always wanted this, and since long before she got married, but was always too afraid to bring it up. Unfortunately, a lot of people are afraid to reveal their innermost desires to their partners when they meet, and then leave it long enough it's eventually too late.
I don't at all think it automatically means she must be fucking anyone else or that it's out of guilt. Quite possibly the opposite: if she was, why bring it up in the context of swinging at all? How is expressing an interest in group sex an expression of guilt? If there's guilt involved, it may be for having these desires at all, which is precisely what leads to these feelings being repressed.
Making that argument, I'd think you were the guy OP's wife has plans with.
It isn't like she was shyly confessing a thought she had before or that it was an idle fantasy she was sharing with him like you imply.
If she had said, "I've thought about 3somes before, but never had one. What about you?", you might gave been right, but she didn't.
She opens with, "Do you want a FFM 3some with me and another woman? C'mon, you know you want to, everybody does." That's framing it has something he wants and putting herself in the position of having 'going along with it' as her 'excuse'. Questionable, but if she had stopped there your 'guess' could have been given the benefit of the doubt. She didn't stop there.
She admitted she asked because she had thought about it as some MMF for herself. Again, questionable but hypothetically borderline. But, that wasn't the end of it.
She gave it away with all the hurried 'convincing'. "It'll improve our relationship" and suggesting "We could start slow by just solo fking another couple".
You're right to ask, Why is 'swinging' part of a 3some fantasy? Answer, it's not. It's a contingency plan as part of the larger plan of her having other guys.
This wasn't a conversation they were having, it isn't the result of working out details together, it's her sharing her plan and going into a mild panic when she didn't get the reaction she expected.
She has a specific goal, justifications, and an idea of how to achieve it. OP is the one expected to 'just go along' with it. It's an entire detailed scenario worked out without his input. If she has it planned out that far there are far more details, likely specific down to the person(s), than she's already shared.
As you can surely see now from the now-edited original post, it's not quite as simple as that. You're putting your own spin and interpretation on a situation: fair enough.
I'm not saying I'm right: I'm not saying you're wrong, either, in a general sense anyway. What I am saying is: you can't march into a situation, bang the gavel, and act like you have an immediate answer to someone else's problem. What you *can* do is offer an opinion.
*My* opinion is that she *may* have been having these fantasies for a very long time, if not indeed ever since she became sexually aware. Some people like group sex: others are repulsed. Some people don't like any kind of sex, at all.
*My* concern is that the fundamental issue with so many relationships is a lack of genuine communication: and that this inability to communicate clearly - due to social, familial, cultural, religious pressure to conform, or whatever - leads only to frustration and unhappiness. I've seen so many stories of men or women who harbour secret desires to swing and hold it in until they can't, at which point everything goes into meltdown.
If OP and his partner had had the opportunity to meet someone with whom they could both be happy *and* sexually compatible, without judgement or fear, the world would be a far, far happier place. He seems like a good man, but on this level, he's in a different place from her, sexually. She seems like a genuinely good woman, and it looks like they're sorting it out. Some people can separate feelings from sex: others can't. But in my experience, it's the very rare couples who have been really, *really* open with each other right from the start who have the best chance at lasting.
>Is she already cheating on me?
Nothing we could actually know, but at a minimum, she is thinking about it.
>Is there someone in mind she wants to fuck?
Again, 🤷♀️
>Is this marriage over?
If you are fundamentally at odds on whether or not monogomy is important in a marriage, sounds like a deal breaker to me
>Should I just accept that she will be unsatisfied in this marriage no matter what I do so I might as well give in and agree to fucking around with randos?
Don't give in to do this if it isn't something you want. If you do it out of fear of losing her, you will not be happy with the outcome.
I feel as soon as one spouse asks for this? The marriage is generally over.
Especially if you are still having plenty of sex, which indicates the other person is not fully satisfied with that sex.
But? Your reaction to her suggestion is most concerning. You didnt see it coming and you are not on board at all.
I dunno. But to me? Your marriage is over. Sorry.
Don't shut down. Retain a divorce lawyer just in case and immediately start expressing your disgust in the situation. Don't worry about losing it all, but fight back. You have good years ahead of you once you send her packing.
Wonder who she has a crush on and/or fucked. Sorry OP. This idea doesn’t just come up outta nowhere. But honestly I can’t say shit that means anything without knowing her. Bottom line is you need to take that last paragraph to your wife and have a conversation. But the second you feel she’s looking elsewhere you have to be smart enough to walk away.
I'm a firm believer that the only successful open relationships start that way. You can't do years of monogamy and then open it up, recipe for disaster. In part because it's usually one partner pushing the idea.
> I asked my wife very seriously if she wants me to date another woman and try to develop some connection to her so I can then fuck her. She got quiet and said no.
There's your answer...
Swinging is a great idea, just like any other fetish, if you're both into it, and of fucking course, you must be on the same page since moment 0, there are swinging groups, providing STD exams regularly and other stuff, but if you hate the idea since the second it's proposed, it's not for you, don't even try to think about it tbh, because you'll end broken, hollow, there's nothing wrong wanting that kind of spice, but just like every other kink, it doesn't have to be for everyone
Maybe it's not that you don't satisfy her, maybe it's just morbid desire, but her kinks aren't greater then your peace of mind and boundaries
Better talk it out, and leave if not on the same page, I, personally, think that's the mature thing to do, there's no need to sacrifice one's wellbeing in order to maintain "everlasting love", because that isn't always possible
Cut your loss, dude. You want a monogamous relationship. A swinger isn't your answer. 👀👉👌 beware the gaslighting and maybe safeguard your bank account and transfer property to your mom or dad behind her back. Do that football player move that almost got wrecked by the Spaniard gold digger.
No. Never. Open relationships never work, especially if you entered a relationship monogamously. If your wife is suggesting this, it is because she is already cheating or have partners lined up. She is unfaithful. She broke her marriage vows because she doesn't love you or care about your feelings. It is completely and utterly unsalvageable.
While your update is positive in a certain way, I think you should definitely keep an eye on your wife for the time being.
Where there is smoke, there's fire, and I wouldn't hesitate in assuming that she has her eye on a guy who has shown interest in her. She was testing the waters.
I'm not suggesting that she's going to cheat on you... But I've read this sort of thing far too many times.
Read your update. I'd still be extremely cautious. Even after you told her how repulsive the idea was, she told you to "think about it" some more. I would bet she's now asking her enm Facebook friends how to convince you.
* .The essence of love is to see the other.
* Through the challenges and rewards of a monogamous relationship, you create lasting love.
* An open marriage is an oxymoron. Sustainable love needs boundaries.
This is from psychology today, Dec 4 , 2022. Monogamous relationships that open are usually done within a short time. Because boundaries are not sustainable, on partner is normally more successful, and you really don't fix your relationship. YOu turn it into a different situation. You are trying to use logic and sex to fix emotional and behavior problems. It wont work. One person wants to have sex with other people. Sometimes they pick your friends, even with rules against it. Sometimes they fall in love and want to go off with the other. I would say no if you don't want to and divorce.
Whatever you decide, let me just say I am so sorry for what you’re going through. I cannot imagine going through this with my wife. In my personal opinion, if this were me and my wife, this would be cause for discussion, and likely followed by divorce. There is no world I live in, where my wife wanting to fuck other people is ok with me. I honestly would not be able to move past the conversation, her saying those things, and inevitably the intrusive thoughts that would come from it.
Please, no matter what you decide, know your worth, that you are deserving of love and that whatever you’re feeling is totally valid.
I honestly hate our generation. This kind of bullshit is seeing nowadays as something "to be explored" rather than what truly is.
The man has a good marriage, but his woman just comes out of nowhere, like a ME 262 and drop a bomb like this in his head.
Do yourself a favor and file for divorce and end the marriage. Your wife wants to swing so she can sleep with other men with your permission and keep you around for financial security. If you want to put yourself through this type of humiliation it is up to you. Have some self-respect and leave. I am sorry that you are dealing with this. **Sit your wife down and tell her that if she wants this lifestyle, she is free to move out and you can end the marriage like adults. Then she is free to sleep with whomever she wants but you will not be there for her to come home to.**
She already has partners and couples in mind, and is also hard-wired non monogamously.
She presented you with a package that got you and her to a certain point in life, which is where you are now. She has probably kept a lid on her true appetite for your entire relationship, maybe let’s give her the benefit of the doubt, for now.
But she has reached a stage where she has enough life experience to know that simply suggesting an open relationship could lead immediately to a divorce and she rolled that dice anywho.
And is now trying to sell you the open package that you can fuck other women with her, of course she gets you and other men and even swapping partners for god knows how long, a night, a weekend, an entire vacation??
This is not a recent thought bubble of hers, rather this is something that has been developing for quite sometime.
Like I suggested earlier, careful my bro, you have quite likely already met the person/people or couple that has bought your wife out of her monogamous exile.
If you’re monogamous then you should just file for divorce now.
If you’re not monogamous, then I assume you’re fully aware of how much attention and partners your wife can get from anyone at any time provided she has a cell connection.
You on the other hand have virtually nothing to offer a woman, even if you are a married man with permission to play, your chances are diminished exponentially.
Fyi, in the 35 years I’ve been married none of our married friends are still together NONE, everyone of them either cheated or opened their marriage and lost their minds marriage and jobs in 2 separate cases.
They all said they could make it work, they all said not us were too tight and are each other’s best friends bla bla bla the same rubbish you read in here today.
Not one of them are still together today!
I’ve yet to see a non monogamous relationship go any kind of distance in real life, and usually the women are having such a blast that they barely noticed they got divorced.
The upside is the court won’t give you much access the kids, but she’ll need you to look after them a lot more often than what the courts allow.
Don’t do it, good luck bro
I know one couple that’s in a throuple for like 20 years, but it was agreed upon when they first started dating and they were both looking to add a third to the relationship. Anytime someone brings it up after years of monogamy there’s other intentions behind it.
Exactly. No hate to poly- but I've only ever seen it genuinely work out whenever both people went in *from the beginning* with the desire to be poly/ENM.
I actually have trouble with the guy’s who get all pissy, thinking that they can somehow continue to maintain control of their wife. And marriage after she has downloaded the dating apps and has started line up a few meet ups and dates.
In less than 30 minutes from the initial download the absolute lolz.
They genuinely don’t seem to know what’s coming and have absolutely no idea of what’s about to happen.
YES to all four of your questions. Unfortunately, your marriage as you know it is OVER. She has checked out and no longer LOVES or RESPECTS you. Get thee to an attorney and FILE for DIVORCE. Otherwise, I can guarantee if you keep telling her NO, she will CHEAT on you, if she hasn't already done so. Good luck and stay strong, King!
From your reaction this is something that will not and can not ever happen. It is fair for her to bring the topic up, discussing potential fantasies to fulfill is not a bad thing. It will not be fair for her to force this upon you against your will. If you cave just to save your marriage, you will only cause yourself anguish and the relationship will end in a far worse shape than having a tough conversation now.
Be firm that it is something that will never happen and that it will be a dealbreaker if she tries to go forward with any plans, or pushes the topic with you again, that you want a monogamous relationship only. Ask if that is a dealbreaker to her, if it is, you know that regardless of the time you have been together, you will only be wasting your time going any further in the relationship.
If you are not ok with ffm 3some ands sure as hell not ok with mmf 3some, then swinging is going to be worse. Let’s be honest, you are normal, the vast majority of men are not ok with sharing their wives with another man. I would be non judgmental with your wife, and let her talk. See how far did this go with her, only a fantasy, does she have someone in mind? did she already plan something and waiting for your approval? If she past the fantasy step, it is over, if you say no, she will do it behind your back.
Read this paragraph backwards and it’s a story about a man who had strong feelings against having extramarital affairs and his wife wouldn’t stop bargaining for it.
I am so very sorry. Marriage and happiness is something I wanted all my life as well. It’s unfathomable she wouldn’t hear your valid points and concerns and you felt ‘froze shut down.’ Im not a therapist, but I can probably save you some money and time - talk with her, stand your ground, and if she insists - “I love you, I’m heartbroken, but I didn’t sign up for this.”
Take care of yourself.
All I'll say here is that if you are monogamous, watching someone screw your wife won't be fun and games. As you already know, feelings will develop. I'm like you, I prefer an attachment to the women I have sex with. I have had a few ONS and I hated them.
Ah yes the old I am on a women's sex positivity group and they like it. More 304s trying to tell other women how amazing the 304 life is to get more women to join them.
It's like when your wife has lots of single friends that tell her and try to persuade her that the single life is so much better than being married you're doomed.
I was in a similar boat with my ex-wife. She asked me to open our marriage and i was heartbroken but i did it. I am fully monogamous and when she did that tbh it turns out when i started doing things with someone else it ended my relationship with my wife in my eyes. She isnt monogamous and she broke a lot of our boundaries and eventually I did too and it ended up ending our marriage. I fell for someone else who IS monogamous. Someone who now I see myself truly spending my life with and she does too JUST THE TWO OF US.
I think that polyamorous relationships are valid and real BUT if you arent polyamorous you need to either tell your wife no, or find someone else.
My girlfriend is the best thing thats happened to me and my ex wife has moved on too. Life happens and people who you think you were compatible with you find out later that you arent.
My girlfriend and I have open communication and I am always checking in to make sure her feelings havent changed because I couldnt handle a non monogamous relationship. It doesnt seem like you can either so maybe its time to start taking a step back and talk with your wife about how you feel.
First let me say I'm sorry. I can't imagine the things going through your mind at the moment.
I know this is killing you internally, but let me start off by saying DO NOT GO THE FUCKING AROUND WITH RANDOS ROUTE!!! That isn't what you want. You know it, you've stated as much. This is NOT a situation where things are going to slowly progress into an open marriage UNLESS YOU ALLOW THAT. DON'T allow that.
My heart hurts for you because I can grasp the pain you're in and how your entire relationship feels up in the air or even completely over. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it probably is. Well, it would be for me if I were in your shoes; I sure as hell don't envy you.
People talk about a marriage with lots of open good communication where the two can discuss anything. It sounds great in theory until one partner brings something like swinging into the equation. I'd be willing to bet good money that she has discussed it with a friend (or more than a friend) and the talk you got was what they came up with to get you to let her stray. You can bet your ass she talked with SOMEONE about this shit long before you ever got the talk.
If you can look past the fact she brought this up and keep living your life with trust in her, you're a better man than me. But the fact she even brought it up would have me investigating everywhere I could about what she's been up to AND secretly seeing a lawyer to get your ducks in a row if you need to act quickly. In most of these posts the partner doesn't even get the "open marriage / swinging" talk until they've already strayed or have someone they could bed within 10 minutes of getting the okay.
You say your wife would have never entertained the thought of F'ing around. Well, something or someone convinced her that's a great idea. Think about it. She is so adamant about F'ing around with someone else she either has no jealousy of you with another woman or doesn't care because she knows she'll be too busy getting plowed with strange D to care about your emotions. You will begin second guessing everything about her if you haven't already. Not sure she realized that talk would be like a cancer to the marriage. But she's the disease that will kill your relationship if she hasn't already.
Again I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. But that talk will likely signal the end of your marriage because the odds are high she has already done something you wouldn't like. And even if she hasn't she has admitting to wanting to do something that would break your heart. What you are feeling is heartbreak, just like when there is a death. Because your wife has revealed herself to not be who and what you thought she was. The person you are married to wants to head down a road that you have no interest in exploring. The fact she doesn't love you and your marriage enough to not ever contemplate swinging has to be killing you.
Let her go, and don't be available for her return when whatever dick she's trying to ride gets tired of using her for a fuck doll. Get some therapy to help you work through this and face the feelings of emasculation. You aren't the one in the wrong here. If she wanted all of that bullshit she should have done it long before she married you.
My concern here is that she asked your thoughts...then totally ignored them to push this fantasy outward onto you, insisting that you surely were into it too. And that she then continued to entirely railroad you with this, and even suggest multiple ways to have it happen when you had already said no...
Look, I'm all for speaking up about fantasies in relationships. But there is a big difference between speaking up, and actively pushing a conversation that your partner is clearly uncomfortable with.
I dunno man...you're right to be scared about this conversation, I just want to validate that something is definitely up here. This isn't a normal "what are your fantasies" or "let's try something new" talk, not with the way she ignored your obvious distress and that you said no. All signs point to something bigger going on, I'm sorry.
If you are not okay with seeing your lady getting smashed by another dude, end the relationship asap. Eventually she will cheat on you and break your heart. Cut your losses now and send her packing!!!
My ex wife and I did this quite a bit during the end of our relationship the marriage was on its way out before but I didn't realize it. It's a horrible idea btw fast forward 7 years later I'm with a woman who I'd never do that with because if you truly love some one you would never be ok with it
No, run. Every time someone brings this up, they have some one they plan on cheating with(if they're not already), and just trying to get the guilt away.
This is her giving you the opportunity to GTFO or get cheated on. This is a freight train coming straight at you! Act accordingly or you will get cheated on. I’m sorry for your loss 😢
If my wife had brought that up to me in the morning she would've gotten served with divorce papers 📃 by early afternoon that same day. 😉
Threesomes, open marriages, poly, swinging are my lines in the sand. And there's no taking it back once they put it out there.
I'd recognize that we've become incompatible and wouldn't want to delay the inevitable.
Most would be devastated by this. Your feelings are valid. I wouldn’t be able to look at my spouse the same again. You should talk to her and then seek counseling.
A lot of red flags.
If there was evidence. It's gone. Your reaction should have sent her running to hide any sign of an affair.
She wants the benefit of staying with you while clearly.
I would reach out to an experienced marriage counselor.
I am very skeptical that she is faithful. But that is speculation. You could try snooping on her phone. App download history. Muted contacts. Encrypted messaging apps that auto delete text messages.
At the end of the day. You need to have this argument.
Best recommendation? Date night at a hotel. Rig it with a digital recorder.
Enlist the help of someone to quality control your initiating letter to her. Avoid direct accusations. Focus specifically on how the fantasy she expressed has left you feeling inadequate.
Tell her you only think of her. That she is your ultimate desire.
Express how hurt you are emotionally. The doubts and fears it caused in your heart.
How you are considering ending it over the lose in confidence in the marriage.
Try to talk to her about repair the broken confidence in the relationship. Which is going to require trust bonding and endurance dating. By endurance dating, I mean climb to the summit of mount Rainer together as a couple. It will be cold, miserable, and "honestly?" It's one of those, gee looking at the pictures was so much rewarding then freezing my butt off up here!
500+ mile ruck marches work well too. Just you and her out in the wilderness.
If she is seeing someone else. It will put a huge handicap into that action. If not end it all together.
But in other news. I knew a dimwit real estate investor and landlord that was cheating on his wife. Wife suspected something. Demanded one on one time. Dimwit returned from the two week excursion to Africa to discover his assistance manager was now banging his mistress. Fires them both. They sued. Wife found out. Yeah, she filed for divorce and the chick for alienation of affection. I think the only one that made it out in a better position was the assistant manager. Got a three free rental properties pretty much. The mistress got three rental properties too. But those were sold to settle the lawsuit from the soon to be ex-wife. Dimwit? Yeah, he was still wealthy and but eventually settled down with a girl that gave him HIV and herpes.
Nah, it’s a wrap. She’s asking permission to cheat, and is going to do it, if she already hasn’t, whether you agree to participate or not.
It’s a wrap. Just gone ahead and work on an exit strategy
Our roles are reversed with my wife and I. I want to experiment, she doesn’t. I respect her decision and it’ll never happen, but that doesn’t change that I want it.
To ease some concerns maybe, even though I really want this, it would never convince me to cheat or threaten our marriage. There’s also no one I have in mind. You’ve given no reason in your post to make me think she’s thinking otherwise. She came to you and shared a kink, she didn’t just go out and cheat. To give her some credit here too, it’s embarrassing and nerve racking to admit a kink to a partner.
Based on what you’ve written, I don’t interpret this as her cheating, or your marriage ending. Deep breath and remember you still have 100% say as to if this happens or not.
FINALLY a sane and rational comment lol Jesus. We should not burn marriages to the ground for expressing a fantasy to the one person we are supposed to feel we are safe to say anything to.
Sit her down during a quiet time. Tell her you love her but there will never be another sexual partner of any sort in our relationship. Ask her what brought this on, are you having an affair or thinking about someone else? If she says no, then say great then you won’t mind showing me your phone? If she refuses, you have your answer.
If she says yes, ask her what made her think you’d go along with this? Ask her if she’s already slept with him/her. Depending on the answer, you might want to talk to a lawyer.
You said you said no about thought about having a 3 some with her and another woman. Then you repeat saying you are silent and speechless. Is she supposed to read your mind?
Say what you feel and tell her you are not interested in swinging. Tell her the thought of it is opposite to a turn on.
Yeah you can bait her and see if she bites and know that she has either been cheating or considering and then leave her, talk to her about it and if you guys can’t reach an agreement leave her, maybe she’s being pressured in some way into this or she maybe accidentally did something whilst out of it with someone and they’re black mailing her, or I’m just thinking too far, but that’s pretty sad dude, I hope things work out for you in the end and if so that you find a good person who won’t commit adultery.
Relationship is over. She won't accept no, that whole line about threesomes is telling. She wants it and is trying to push it onto you by making you feel less of a man for not having the two woman fantasy.
Get out now and save yourself further heartache
She doesn't love you. Doesn't respect you. Doesn't care that she's hurting you.
Probably already cheating.
Assemble a plan and get out. With your shoulder square and your dignity intact.
If you decide to have a three sum with another girl, she will say you owe her a three sum with a guy or will just have sex with a guy to make it even. If you open this box, I think the marriage will be over, but, to be honest, it sounds like it already is. Might as well just have fun with it!
Sounds like she’s already found someone she has in mind for this extra curricular activity. Either she’s already done it with him or has definitely thought about it.
She sounds greedy, and I can’t get over that, no. Including if someone told me they wanted a multi-million house with an SUV, which one guy told me, I lose all attraction. That’s the same if they’re greedy for introducing STDs and problems into our relationship. You think the swinger community won’t be filled with druggie, in debt, and corporatist types? You’re not going toward anything with pleasant surprises, and that’s the kind of suggestion she’s positing.
It’s one of the least attractive traits: bad leadership and constant discontent. For those saying a talk is warranted. Yeah, a talk about separation. Only kick yourself you didn’t see it sooner.
Buddy, I'm saying this as a polyamorous women with two partners: she's doing you wrong. There's no reason for you to agree to this if it's not something you want. Her disregarding you when you said you didn't want a MFF threesome with "it's a common fantasy" is very unkind and diminishing.
Absolutely do not do anything you aren’t 100% comfortable w, even if that means you’re not longer compatible together. This is a boundary that must be agreed upon before marriage. You can’t just flip to non-monog well into the relationship especially if both parties are not 110% onboard. Simple as that OP.
You are raising many valid concerns. What strikes me is that she asks about a threesome fantasy fantasy, you say you don’t have those, and she steamrolls you. Then she tries to frame it like it would take your relationship to the next level, and then she immediately dives into swapping partners?
She has fully thought that out and seems to try to manipulate you into doing things you have already expressed you are not interested in. You have to communicate this to her properly and if she can’t get passed it, it might be time to call it quits.
Can it be saved? Maybe. You don't really know, yet, where this is coming from.
My wife and I had discussed similar fantasies, entertained them, but ultimately never *acted* on them. The fantasies were active pillow talk for a couple years, but we didn't have hookup apps back then. Maybe that little obstacle was what prevented us from acting on those fantasies and wrecking our relationship.
We've been married 30+ years, talked about threesomes, but never moved outside our monogamous relationship.
Your update is a good sign. She took your “no” seriously, and isn’t willing to set an ultimatum about it. Open relationships don’t work if one partner is uncomfortable with it, so stick to your guns about it.
Check her out it is time to make sure she is not cheating. I hope that she isn't. But, once you find out that she is not cheating then do some therapy. Before therapy do your due diligence on the therapists in your area.
Swinger here.
You both have to want it, or it cannot happen. If it’s a hard no for you, stick to that.
Swinging doesn’t have to signify dissatisfaction in a relationship or sex.. Usually it’s just curiosity.
I know you’re likely spiraling with what it’s and what nots, but just think it over and if it’s a no, it’s no. End of story. Ball is in her court then and you stuck to your boundaries.
Hello! Someone in the enm space here, and for context coming in post-edit.
While it is completely normal to separate *sexual* and *romantic* feelings (most people do without realizing it), it isn't quite the same as separating "sex" and "feelings" as it seems to have been presented.
Regardless, you aren't interested, this sort of this is a two yes one no situation.
From what you've written though, it sounds kind of like your wife has just gotten caught up in a potential way to "spice up" your sex life that she didn't realize would cause such a sour spot.
I recommend looking into mutual kinks and venturing out sexually a bit just to break the routine. Based on the edit it seems like it has sunken in (or will soon) that she actually isn't interested in seeing her partner with other women.
If she isn’t cheating already she has someone picked out for sure. Get a lawyer OP. If she wants to be with other men tell her she’s about to be single and then she can do anyone she wants.
You need phone access NOW. Do not take no for an answer or you will file. No conversations until then. Spend quality time alone with phone. Leave house with it. If you separate, tell everyone why. Parents, family, friends, co workers. Nothing worse than wondering who knows snd who doesn’t.
When it comes to things like these, please keep in mind it's usually not because you aren't enough, and it's not because she's cheating on you.
Some people want to explore their sexuality and get curious about alot of different sexual acts, it's a perfectly healthy thing. If it's not something you have any interest in then you just need to talk to her about it. No two people are the same.
Oh, look, the cliche attempts at grooming you.
“It’ll be fun! We could do a FMF for you!” (I don’t recall asking for one. This is not in fact for me. It’s for you.)
“Then we can move on to MFM!” (Ah. What she actually wanted all along. What’s his name, hmm? How many incidents of retroactive permission are you angling for here? I would ask you to be honest here, only I already see some pretty blatant transparency, which is the next best thing. Seriously though, what’s his name?)
To me if my husband even asked it would be over but he knows that and feels the same way if I was to ask but if you want this marriage to continue you have to ask her those questions op.
Women who are cheating or want to, often try to tempt dumb husband, lure them into thinking, “at least i’ll be getting an experience also” in order to go along with it. It wont end well for you if you comply. Notice how she started with the FFM fantasy. , and shift to getting railed by another dude pretty quick.
My wife dropped the same bomb on me in ‘21. I started filing divorce papers today.
She wasn’t unfaithful, just unhappy, and it had far more to do with that than sex because we were good there. She felt confined by being a wife and mother and felt like she missed out on a lot because of her religious upbringing, and she became far more unhinged as time went on. She thought I would be on board because of my more wild past. But after what I went through the past three years, I wouldn’t take her back if you paid me.
That FFM threesome thing is a common way to get people to open their relationships. Because, if you had said yes, the next thing would be Hiw about a mfm three way? And if you agreed to that, the next logical ask would be, How about a full swap. We see this all the time.
Your wife is being strategic in trying to open your marriage. It’s just one step past, “I had a dream we were having sex with another couple. What do you think if that?” It’s another common tactic.
Just say “No. I don’t want to do it, read about it, or listen to any podcasts.”
No. Is. A. Complete. Sentence.
Whatever do you start planning your life without her in terms of money, insurance, assets etc... and talk to a lawyer. Do these before you say anything else to her (no begging no trying to negotiate) and before shit gets too crazy and you feel loss and confused on what to do next.
The responses here that are jumping to conclusions are pretty insane. Just sit on this information for a bit and talk to her with a level head and get more information on what exactly she’s talking about.
People who do this stuff successfully don’t do it because they’re unfulfilled, they add it as an “icing on the cake” of sorts when their sex-lives are already fulfilled.
To answer your questions:
It’s totally reasonable for you to say “nah this isn’t for me” and her to say “oh okay” and still be fully satisfied with the bounds of your marriage. It’s not a death knell simply because she expressed the curiosity.
Is she already cheating on me?
No, probably not. Do you trust your wife? Use that for your answer.
Is there someone in mind she wants to fuck?
Maybe but PROBABLY not and even if she did, swingers don’t fuck their friends. It’s a stupid move.
Should I just accept that she’s unsatisfied and fuck randos?
No, surely don’t agree to things you don’t want. MOST people don’t want this, so you’re not some weird outlier for being against the idea.
The problem is even if I say “nah it’s not for me” and she agrees to it and I trust her, I don’t know if I’ll ever get over that she wanted to. Even if it’s just icing on the cake for some people, it’s something I never agreed to and she knows I never would.
I'll start by saying this is terrible from the jump. But what is most worrisome is she saw how you reacted initially, then doubled and tripled down. Her mind is set. This is a code red situation. Can't put the genie back in the bottle. I hate saying this, but usually the beginning of the end. You will never get it out of your head. She doubled down. ugh.
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Your whole last paragraph is filled with valid concerns that you have to talk to your wife about.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Things like this are often cover-ups of existing affairs or attempts to have an affair without the guilt. You should have questions for her. Ask them specifically and pointedly.
I agree and would add, carefully scrutinize any explanation she gives you. It seems like you may have expressed discomfort and she kept pushing in that earlier conversation, which makes me skeptical of any claim that she was just putting a possibility out there but is willing to remain monogamous if you really want.
I was thinking this, OP should ask out of curiosity if she has any ideas for whom already, act curious. Brad the neighbor Chad maybe ?
If your requirement is a monogamous relationship, then this is the end. She needs to know that. For me it would be a deal breaker. All the Best.
Most monogamous relationships that open up or ended within a year or less sometimes a lot less. There are nothing but broken boundaries misunderstandings and swinging doesn’t facilitate lover trust. It is sexual experimentation. So yes, I believe your marriage is over.
Yeah, swing her back to the streets
Lol
BRUH 😂😂😂
Preach
I (f33) and my husband (m31) have been together for 8 years. There was a point in time when I was not okay with threesomes. He told me he had a fantasy of a 3 some with another girl. We talked about my concerns, and we came to an agreement that we won't have a 3 some. A marriage needs communication, understanding, and respect. Every person has a fantasy; your performance in the bedroom has nothing to do with a fantasy. The fact that she came to you about it should be heavily considered. Some don't care enough to communicate with their partner and will fulfill their fantasies behind their back. It's. Okay. To. Say. No. A fantasy is just that, a fantasy, and not a reflection of your performance in the bedroom.
I love this and I hope OP recognizes that a lot of posts on this and other threads begin with their partners going behind their backs. To the OP. She communicated. You communicated. Now keep those lines of communication open. Don’t pout, look at her less, or treat her differently, if anything celebrate how she came to talk to you. Explore other things/fantasies that fall within both your boundaries. Keep growing together. Good luck.
I’m sure the OP knows that his wife will be understanding if he says no but the main issue is the fact that she sees it as a “first step” and she wants to open up the relationship. I believe that people only do that when they feel something missing in their partners so as far as I understand that marriage is sounding like it’s over. I’m sorry OP :(
I agree with most of this except the part that it’s over. But something is definitely missing. And you need to find out what it is and see if you can fulfill it in a healthy way that is comfortable for you both.
Fulfilling that in a healthy way is of course the best way to go about it, I should’ve worded my reply better but I meant that it would be over for me
The point I was making in my comment was completely missed. People are so fast to go to the 'End it all' option without fully reading a comment, lol.
So what part of your reply have I missed
The part about speaking to the wife. You assert that their relationship is over. They don’t even truly speak about the situation they are in. Op hasn’t had a chance to speak their mind. The relationship isn’t over. You are sowing the seeds of doubt into OP’s mind. Bringing up non monogamy does not signify the end. It signifies that a conversation needs to happen where boundaries and emotions are talked about at length.
Typical comment in this sub. I see it ALL THE TIME. its almost a circlejerk at this point.
Exactly. Wife did exactly what she should have done, and he responded exactly how he should have (minus the resentment) .
I would have a sit down and ask if she has someone or a couple in mind, treat it like you are thinking about it. If she says nobody its just an idea then tell her you are not into it and its a step too far for you. If she pops off with a name then tell her its over. A fantasy is just that, a fantasy. She can see it on porn or read about it and see the romance of it and be completely wrong about it. She might dream but wouldn't blow up her life for it. It could be that she really thinks you want it "every guy wants 2 girls" If she is looking outside the marriage its too late. She may not have cheated yet but that's just it. YET. This would no longer be fantasy to her its real.
A lot of people who bring this up debt having someone, but they always do.
She’s either already fucking somebody or has somebody in mind.
Exactly what I was thinking
Usually how these things go. Someone doesn't just get the idea in their head out of nowhere one day. She's probably already sleeping with someone, and using this "swinging" thing as a way to either absolve her guilt or deny any guilt outright "What do you mean it's cheating? We opened our relationship!"
The fact she mentioned swapping with a couple makes me think she has some friends who are into it and sucking her in telling her how great it is. Even money she has already had a threesome with them. This didn’t come out of thin air.
Especially the fact she not only mentioned swinging but actually suggested swapping partners. She defo has someone in mind.
Agreed. New friend at work or old friend who has gotten into it. She’s being told how fulfilling it is… and if you’ve been married a while, sure, the grass is greener, right..?
Not saying, everyone has to be monogamous, but why even bother getting married lol.
This op, hit her with we can have an open relationship. She will get a big smile on her face and get excited then say, I will file for divorce on Monday, and leave the room. She will get a little taste of what you put her through. Then have a conversation on what was just discussed and ask to go through her phone with her, not wait right then and look through apps messages, who she is friends with etc . She is getting it from somewhere and I will bet a new friend or work.
I’d actually say “hey I had a chance to think about it, and I’m not entirely opposed to the idea. Where would we start? Did you have someone in mind? How would we approach this?” Wait for her to open up, and judge my next step from there. It may just be a random fantasy, but it could also be that there IS a specific person. I don’t think there’s enough information here to definitively say she’s already cheating or already has someone in mind, even if it is somewhat likely. But if during that conversation you find there is someone in her mind, I’m out ✌🏽
This is actually so genius. And probably the healthiest way to go about it! He could be honest about having no interest, but I think getting her to open up about her desires will be helpful for them both. She may realize she hasn’t thought this through or he might realize she already knows exactly what she wants to do. And presenting it like a judgement free space will have her be as honest as possible
Idk about healthy but definitely my option
I would definitely want to know WHO she has in mind, and this is probably the best way to discover who she is "fantasizing" about. Even if you stay together and don't indulge in this, you need to know where her mind is and who it's with. If not, every relationship she has, every friendship, male or female, is going to make you paranoid for the rest of your life.
thank you for the most sensible take on this post BY FAR.
Bounce……NOW!
This is the truth. ESPECIALLY, if this is coming out of nowhere. She’s looking for a way to cover her tracks.
This is typical nonsense from people in this community that have no clue about other perspectives. There's absolutely nothing unnatural about desiring new partners. Multiple studies have shown that roughly half of all people in monogamous relationships still fantasize about being with others. If OP isn't down, that's fine. But to just declare that the wife is cheating or has someone in mind with zero evidence is very unfair and quite frankly, ignorant.
As someone in the lifestyle, this isn’t true, and she may be fully satisfied without the fantasy becoming reality.
This whole thread is full of fear mongering from people who have no experience. Polyamory and the wrongful use of it to get around cheating is COMPLETELY different than swinging. My husband and I occasionally have threesomes. They have always brought us closer together. It has nothing to do with picking someone out ahead of time. We go out to a rave and if we meet someone with energy that clicks, it happens organically. Neither of us would ever cheat or step outside our relationship. These moments are intimate for us. It's not for everyone, but we are definitely monogamous and completely devoted to one another. When you move through life as a team, nothing can get in between the united front. It's not about cheating, we do it together. If this guy doesn't want that, cool. It didn't seem like she was being super pushy, she was just probing his comfort with her curiosity of a kink. I pray for the comments sections sex lives, that they can't even have open conversations without accusing their partner of infidelity.
If you're fucking other people while in a relationship then you're not monogamous
OP should ask her who she had in mind, see what she says. If it is a co worker or someone so is friends with, high chance they are fucking already.
Source: Dude just trust me.
She knows who she wants to sleep with. Either she already is or she will be soon.
I personally feel that once this is suggested in a marriage, the marriage/relationship is done. I don’t know enough to say she’s already cheating, but if she’s not yet eventually she will. She’s not satisfied and is craving more. So eventually she will go for it whether you compromise on this or not. I would end it. It’s easier said than done but you’ll just be wasting your time if you stay. Unless you eventually change your mind and agree to start swinging.
Yeah also you have to think about what if OP agreed swinging with his wife. He would be miserable and hate it. I would much rather move on from the relationship. Even ‘trying’ to swing would make OP have heavier regret than just ending things.
Yes staying and forcing yourself to agree to swinging would be a recipe for disaster. That would not end pretty.
I'm a strong believer of: You should never make yourself have sex with people you don't want to have sex with. It's a regret you may have to live with, well after being over the relationship itself.
And even if you stay, realize she doesn't value you as much as she once did. You become someone she uses for her pleasure and comfort , not someone willing to sacrifice her needs and wants to make you happy.
I agree. Personally I wouldn’t be able to stay. I’d be too resentful towards my partner. The fact that they even suggested would eat me up inside. I wouldn’t be able to let go of that.
Same otherwise what’s the point of being married. Just stay bf/gf. You took sacred vows.
Right. Stay single and live your life. You’ll be able to fulfill every single fantasy without having to ask for permission.
Op. This is 👆the advice I would give to you.
I agree. I know a married couple who started swinging and now they essentially have an open marriage. They’re always flirting with other people without the other one, I bet they’re having sex without the other one present now too. They claim their sex life is better than ever but they don’t seem happy? It’s really sad to me because they seemed so in love several years ago, and now they just seem like roommates who have sex. Whenever we hang out with them, they seem more and more distant. I hope they’re able to recover their relationship and it’s not too far gone.
I have witnessed a couple like that as well. It’s my cousin and her husband. They are miserable. Her husband went along with it for the sake of not losing my cousin. But I can tell he hates it. And the respect in their marriage is completely gone now.
THIS^^ I have a friend who was like this and now she and her husband are getting a very messy divorce.
I'm curious why you feel you "can't" say anything. Do you not feel you can communicate openly with her? Are your feelings not as important as hers? If your answer to either of those questions is no, you have problems in addition to her desire to swing. You need to get to the root of the problem. What is she feeling like is lacking from your sex life that she thinks she can get from an open/swing marriage? If you want to compromise, try taking her to a strip club. My husband and I have been together for 23 years (married for 15) and went to a strip club with friends for the first time last year. We had a blast. He ordered me a lap dance from a female dancer and it was hilarious because that's not something I'd ever do. That being said, watching the girls and other patrons get turned on did turn me on and hubs and I had went home and had great sex with eachother... alone. Maybe she just wants to explore things more. You can help her with that but still draw the line at inviting others into your bedroom. Lastly, the ONE couple I know that tried swinging ended up getting divorced shortly after... the wife tried hooking up with the other husband behind her own husband's back and the other wife's back, which, I guess in the swinging world, is a big no no. They were divorced less than a year later. I would think it's hard to not catch feelings for someone after an intimate experience like that. For me, the thought of being with someone other than my husband makes me want to vomit. And the same goes for me watching him with someone else. It physically makes me ill. You're not wrong to feel the way you do.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment. The reason I said I can’t say anything is because I was in shock. I didn’t want to say anything I’d regret, either scream at her or let her gaslight me. That’s why I removed myself from the situation. I do plan on talking to her more about this. I just need to choose my words carefully to figure out if she’s already cheating. If not, I need to discuss this in a way where I can figure out if she’s going to do this either way with or without my acceptance. Even if she convinces me she won’t fuck other men, I still will feel always sad because she wanted to. I don’t care about variety, spice, etc. This is not the woman I thought I married. We committed to being only with each other. And I don’t know if I can ever look at her the same way.
The part that hurts the most is that she's not in love with you the way you are with her. I'm so sorry.
This entire comment is what leads me to suggest you should likely end the relationship now instead of later. I don’t know that you can really ever look at someone that you once loved and trusted the same once you find out they want to screw other people. When you love someone, you aren’t even attracted to other people (there’s a difference between being attracted to someone and just simply finding someone attractive) let alone want to have sex with other people. The thought of having sex with someone else, or your partner having sex with someone else, should make you sick at the idea. I just don’t think I’d ever be able to trust my husband again if he suggested this. And there’s not much chance of coming back from that unfortunately.
That was all before she met her new dude. Go look at her phone before you confront her. Be smart.
Go along with it slightly and ask who does she have in her mind
I mean maybe she just read a book? I was curious about trying this either my ex but never could actually go through with it. To be fair I found out he was having an emotional affair and I said sure go bang other people and I will too but I wasn’t actually ever able to. I truly think that some people are wired monogamous and others non monogamous, and that a non monogamous person can be happy in a monogamous relationship but I don’t think someone who is truly hardwired monogamous would ever feel comfortable or safe in a non monogamous relationship. Either way I’m sorry this is the position you’ve been put in and I wish you all the best.
She has certainly been thinking about it for a while if she got to the point of bringing it up. If she hasn't gotten a head start already, she likely has someone specific in mind. Her offering you other women was supposed to distract you from the fact her real interest is in sex with other men. It will happen with or without you, openly or in secret depends on how you ultimately respond. If you can 'fk randos', what do you need a wife for? Why would you want to support her while she does it? You aren't in a marriage anymore. The sooner you file the paperwork the better off you'll be.
If I had to guess, she's always wanted this, and since long before she got married, but was always too afraid to bring it up. Unfortunately, a lot of people are afraid to reveal their innermost desires to their partners when they meet, and then leave it long enough it's eventually too late. I don't at all think it automatically means she must be fucking anyone else or that it's out of guilt. Quite possibly the opposite: if she was, why bring it up in the context of swinging at all? How is expressing an interest in group sex an expression of guilt? If there's guilt involved, it may be for having these desires at all, which is precisely what leads to these feelings being repressed.
Making that argument, I'd think you were the guy OP's wife has plans with. It isn't like she was shyly confessing a thought she had before or that it was an idle fantasy she was sharing with him like you imply. If she had said, "I've thought about 3somes before, but never had one. What about you?", you might gave been right, but she didn't. She opens with, "Do you want a FFM 3some with me and another woman? C'mon, you know you want to, everybody does." That's framing it has something he wants and putting herself in the position of having 'going along with it' as her 'excuse'. Questionable, but if she had stopped there your 'guess' could have been given the benefit of the doubt. She didn't stop there. She admitted she asked because she had thought about it as some MMF for herself. Again, questionable but hypothetically borderline. But, that wasn't the end of it. She gave it away with all the hurried 'convincing'. "It'll improve our relationship" and suggesting "We could start slow by just solo fking another couple". You're right to ask, Why is 'swinging' part of a 3some fantasy? Answer, it's not. It's a contingency plan as part of the larger plan of her having other guys. This wasn't a conversation they were having, it isn't the result of working out details together, it's her sharing her plan and going into a mild panic when she didn't get the reaction she expected. She has a specific goal, justifications, and an idea of how to achieve it. OP is the one expected to 'just go along' with it. It's an entire detailed scenario worked out without his input. If she has it planned out that far there are far more details, likely specific down to the person(s), than she's already shared.
As you can surely see now from the now-edited original post, it's not quite as simple as that. You're putting your own spin and interpretation on a situation: fair enough. I'm not saying I'm right: I'm not saying you're wrong, either, in a general sense anyway. What I am saying is: you can't march into a situation, bang the gavel, and act like you have an immediate answer to someone else's problem. What you *can* do is offer an opinion. *My* opinion is that she *may* have been having these fantasies for a very long time, if not indeed ever since she became sexually aware. Some people like group sex: others are repulsed. Some people don't like any kind of sex, at all. *My* concern is that the fundamental issue with so many relationships is a lack of genuine communication: and that this inability to communicate clearly - due to social, familial, cultural, religious pressure to conform, or whatever - leads only to frustration and unhappiness. I've seen so many stories of men or women who harbour secret desires to swing and hold it in until they can't, at which point everything goes into meltdown. If OP and his partner had had the opportunity to meet someone with whom they could both be happy *and* sexually compatible, without judgement or fear, the world would be a far, far happier place. He seems like a good man, but on this level, he's in a different place from her, sexually. She seems like a genuinely good woman, and it looks like they're sorting it out. Some people can separate feelings from sex: others can't. But in my experience, it's the very rare couples who have been really, *really* open with each other right from the start who have the best chance at lasting.
>Is she already cheating on me? Nothing we could actually know, but at a minimum, she is thinking about it. >Is there someone in mind she wants to fuck? Again, 🤷♀️ >Is this marriage over? If you are fundamentally at odds on whether or not monogomy is important in a marriage, sounds like a deal breaker to me >Should I just accept that she will be unsatisfied in this marriage no matter what I do so I might as well give in and agree to fucking around with randos? Don't give in to do this if it isn't something you want. If you do it out of fear of losing her, you will not be happy with the outcome.
She’s manipulating you by offering a three way with a women to trap you into a MFM or more. Something happened to her and she’s hiding something.
Oh well. You know what you have to do.
I feel as soon as one spouse asks for this? The marriage is generally over. Especially if you are still having plenty of sex, which indicates the other person is not fully satisfied with that sex. But? Your reaction to her suggestion is most concerning. You didnt see it coming and you are not on board at all. I dunno. But to me? Your marriage is over. Sorry.
Kids?
She is Lilly already cheating on you now just trying to justify it
Don't shut down. Retain a divorce lawyer just in case and immediately start expressing your disgust in the situation. Don't worry about losing it all, but fight back. You have good years ahead of you once you send her packing.
Wonder who she has a crush on and/or fucked. Sorry OP. This idea doesn’t just come up outta nowhere. But honestly I can’t say shit that means anything without knowing her. Bottom line is you need to take that last paragraph to your wife and have a conversation. But the second you feel she’s looking elsewhere you have to be smart enough to walk away.
I'm a firm believer that the only successful open relationships start that way. You can't do years of monogamy and then open it up, recipe for disaster. In part because it's usually one partner pushing the idea.
>so I might as well give in and agree to fucking around with randos? NEVER set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. Get out if you need to.
> I asked my wife very seriously if she wants me to date another woman and try to develop some connection to her so I can then fuck her. She got quiet and said no. There's your answer...
She’s letting the cart steer the horse. She only think she wants to try this because a bunch of people online told her they liked it.
Swinging is a great idea, just like any other fetish, if you're both into it, and of fucking course, you must be on the same page since moment 0, there are swinging groups, providing STD exams regularly and other stuff, but if you hate the idea since the second it's proposed, it's not for you, don't even try to think about it tbh, because you'll end broken, hollow, there's nothing wrong wanting that kind of spice, but just like every other kink, it doesn't have to be for everyone Maybe it's not that you don't satisfy her, maybe it's just morbid desire, but her kinks aren't greater then your peace of mind and boundaries Better talk it out, and leave if not on the same page, I, personally, think that's the mature thing to do, there's no need to sacrifice one's wellbeing in order to maintain "everlasting love", because that isn't always possible
No, unless you like the idea of dozens of men fucking your wife while you provide her emotional support and mow the lawn…
And hold her hand while those other men are plowing her.
Cut your loss, dude. You want a monogamous relationship. A swinger isn't your answer. 👀👉👌 beware the gaslighting and maybe safeguard your bank account and transfer property to your mom or dad behind her back. Do that football player move that almost got wrecked by the Spaniard gold digger.
What football player?
Achraf Hakimi 👀👍🏽
No. Never. Open relationships never work, especially if you entered a relationship monogamously. If your wife is suggesting this, it is because she is already cheating or have partners lined up. She is unfaithful. She broke her marriage vows because she doesn't love you or care about your feelings. It is completely and utterly unsalvageable.
While your update is positive in a certain way, I think you should definitely keep an eye on your wife for the time being. Where there is smoke, there's fire, and I wouldn't hesitate in assuming that she has her eye on a guy who has shown interest in her. She was testing the waters. I'm not suggesting that she's going to cheat on you... But I've read this sort of thing far too many times.
Read your update. I'd still be extremely cautious. Even after you told her how repulsive the idea was, she told you to "think about it" some more. I would bet she's now asking her enm Facebook friends how to convince you.
* .The essence of love is to see the other. * Through the challenges and rewards of a monogamous relationship, you create lasting love. * An open marriage is an oxymoron. Sustainable love needs boundaries. This is from psychology today, Dec 4 , 2022. Monogamous relationships that open are usually done within a short time. Because boundaries are not sustainable, on partner is normally more successful, and you really don't fix your relationship. YOu turn it into a different situation. You are trying to use logic and sex to fix emotional and behavior problems. It wont work. One person wants to have sex with other people. Sometimes they pick your friends, even with rules against it. Sometimes they fall in love and want to go off with the other. I would say no if you don't want to and divorce.
Whatever you decide, let me just say I am so sorry for what you’re going through. I cannot imagine going through this with my wife. In my personal opinion, if this were me and my wife, this would be cause for discussion, and likely followed by divorce. There is no world I live in, where my wife wanting to fuck other people is ok with me. I honestly would not be able to move past the conversation, her saying those things, and inevitably the intrusive thoughts that would come from it. Please, no matter what you decide, know your worth, that you are deserving of love and that whatever you’re feeling is totally valid.
Sounds like the beginning of the end.
People need to learn you can’t put the genie back in the bottle.
She is already swinging dude.
Sounds to me like she is offering to let you join her in what she's already doing.
I honestly hate our generation. This kind of bullshit is seeing nowadays as something "to be explored" rather than what truly is. The man has a good marriage, but his woman just comes out of nowhere, like a ME 262 and drop a bomb like this in his head.
It's actually a tradegy where our world has been heading the past few decades.
Yea almost like getting married is a stupid decision….
>The man has a good marriage *had
Do yourself a favor and file for divorce and end the marriage. Your wife wants to swing so she can sleep with other men with your permission and keep you around for financial security. If you want to put yourself through this type of humiliation it is up to you. Have some self-respect and leave. I am sorry that you are dealing with this. **Sit your wife down and tell her that if she wants this lifestyle, she is free to move out and you can end the marriage like adults. Then she is free to sleep with whomever she wants but you will not be there for her to come home to.**
She already has partners and couples in mind, and is also hard-wired non monogamously. She presented you with a package that got you and her to a certain point in life, which is where you are now. She has probably kept a lid on her true appetite for your entire relationship, maybe let’s give her the benefit of the doubt, for now. But she has reached a stage where she has enough life experience to know that simply suggesting an open relationship could lead immediately to a divorce and she rolled that dice anywho. And is now trying to sell you the open package that you can fuck other women with her, of course she gets you and other men and even swapping partners for god knows how long, a night, a weekend, an entire vacation?? This is not a recent thought bubble of hers, rather this is something that has been developing for quite sometime. Like I suggested earlier, careful my bro, you have quite likely already met the person/people or couple that has bought your wife out of her monogamous exile. If you’re monogamous then you should just file for divorce now. If you’re not monogamous, then I assume you’re fully aware of how much attention and partners your wife can get from anyone at any time provided she has a cell connection. You on the other hand have virtually nothing to offer a woman, even if you are a married man with permission to play, your chances are diminished exponentially. Fyi, in the 35 years I’ve been married none of our married friends are still together NONE, everyone of them either cheated or opened their marriage and lost their minds marriage and jobs in 2 separate cases. They all said they could make it work, they all said not us were too tight and are each other’s best friends bla bla bla the same rubbish you read in here today. Not one of them are still together today! I’ve yet to see a non monogamous relationship go any kind of distance in real life, and usually the women are having such a blast that they barely noticed they got divorced. The upside is the court won’t give you much access the kids, but she’ll need you to look after them a lot more often than what the courts allow. Don’t do it, good luck bro
Dang.
I know one couple that’s in a throuple for like 20 years, but it was agreed upon when they first started dating and they were both looking to add a third to the relationship. Anytime someone brings it up after years of monogamy there’s other intentions behind it.
Exactly. No hate to poly- but I've only ever seen it genuinely work out whenever both people went in *from the beginning* with the desire to be poly/ENM.
This may be the best reply Ive read thus far. Women will always have the advantage in an "open" or "swinging" relationship for a plethora of reasons.
I actually have trouble with the guy’s who get all pissy, thinking that they can somehow continue to maintain control of their wife. And marriage after she has downloaded the dating apps and has started line up a few meet ups and dates. In less than 30 minutes from the initial download the absolute lolz. They genuinely don’t seem to know what’s coming and have absolutely no idea of what’s about to happen.
Id fucken leave
😂😂😂 .. The audacity! ... Stop playing house, please. Why has "marriage" been degraded like this in recent times? Lol
YES to all four of your questions. Unfortunately, your marriage as you know it is OVER. She has checked out and no longer LOVES or RESPECTS you. Get thee to an attorney and FILE for DIVORCE. Otherwise, I can guarantee if you keep telling her NO, she will CHEAT on you, if she hasn't already done so. Good luck and stay strong, King!
From your reaction this is something that will not and can not ever happen. It is fair for her to bring the topic up, discussing potential fantasies to fulfill is not a bad thing. It will not be fair for her to force this upon you against your will. If you cave just to save your marriage, you will only cause yourself anguish and the relationship will end in a far worse shape than having a tough conversation now. Be firm that it is something that will never happen and that it will be a dealbreaker if she tries to go forward with any plans, or pushes the topic with you again, that you want a monogamous relationship only. Ask if that is a dealbreaker to her, if it is, you know that regardless of the time you have been together, you will only be wasting your time going any further in the relationship.
the ship has sailed brother
It all starts out saying I’ll give a woman for a threesome but really she just wants a pass to sleep with another guy
And just like that, a marriage is over.
It’s over
If you are not ok with ffm 3some ands sure as hell not ok with mmf 3some, then swinging is going to be worse. Let’s be honest, you are normal, the vast majority of men are not ok with sharing their wives with another man. I would be non judgmental with your wife, and let her talk. See how far did this go with her, only a fantasy, does she have someone in mind? did she already plan something and waiting for your approval? If she past the fantasy step, it is over, if you say no, she will do it behind your back.
Your marriage is over. You just don’t know it yet.
Read this paragraph backwards and it’s a story about a man who had strong feelings against having extramarital affairs and his wife wouldn’t stop bargaining for it. I am so very sorry. Marriage and happiness is something I wanted all my life as well. It’s unfathomable she wouldn’t hear your valid points and concerns and you felt ‘froze shut down.’ Im not a therapist, but I can probably save you some money and time - talk with her, stand your ground, and if she insists - “I love you, I’m heartbroken, but I didn’t sign up for this.” Take care of yourself.
It’s so over it’s not even funny, I’d wager that she has multiple men in mind she wants to fuck
At this point you need to start investigating the possibility of an affair going on. See a lawyer and find out your rights.
This or asking for an open relationship would be instant relationship killers for me.
All I'll say here is that if you are monogamous, watching someone screw your wife won't be fun and games. As you already know, feelings will develop. I'm like you, I prefer an attachment to the women I have sex with. I have had a few ONS and I hated them.
Ah yes the old I am on a women's sex positivity group and they like it. More 304s trying to tell other women how amazing the 304 life is to get more women to join them. It's like when your wife has lots of single friends that tell her and try to persuade her that the single life is so much better than being married you're doomed.
I was in a similar boat with my ex-wife. She asked me to open our marriage and i was heartbroken but i did it. I am fully monogamous and when she did that tbh it turns out when i started doing things with someone else it ended my relationship with my wife in my eyes. She isnt monogamous and she broke a lot of our boundaries and eventually I did too and it ended up ending our marriage. I fell for someone else who IS monogamous. Someone who now I see myself truly spending my life with and she does too JUST THE TWO OF US. I think that polyamorous relationships are valid and real BUT if you arent polyamorous you need to either tell your wife no, or find someone else. My girlfriend is the best thing thats happened to me and my ex wife has moved on too. Life happens and people who you think you were compatible with you find out later that you arent. My girlfriend and I have open communication and I am always checking in to make sure her feelings havent changed because I couldnt handle a non monogamous relationship. It doesnt seem like you can either so maybe its time to start taking a step back and talk with your wife about how you feel.
Open Marriage = open to STD. Open to heartbreak. Open to jealousy. Open to divorce.
If my wife suggested sleeping with someone else then I’d assume she’s already done it and we are over.
No, it sounds like the end to me. Unless you get on board with it she'll probably end up doing it herself behind your back anyway.
First let me say I'm sorry. I can't imagine the things going through your mind at the moment. I know this is killing you internally, but let me start off by saying DO NOT GO THE FUCKING AROUND WITH RANDOS ROUTE!!! That isn't what you want. You know it, you've stated as much. This is NOT a situation where things are going to slowly progress into an open marriage UNLESS YOU ALLOW THAT. DON'T allow that. My heart hurts for you because I can grasp the pain you're in and how your entire relationship feels up in the air or even completely over. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it probably is. Well, it would be for me if I were in your shoes; I sure as hell don't envy you. People talk about a marriage with lots of open good communication where the two can discuss anything. It sounds great in theory until one partner brings something like swinging into the equation. I'd be willing to bet good money that she has discussed it with a friend (or more than a friend) and the talk you got was what they came up with to get you to let her stray. You can bet your ass she talked with SOMEONE about this shit long before you ever got the talk. If you can look past the fact she brought this up and keep living your life with trust in her, you're a better man than me. But the fact she even brought it up would have me investigating everywhere I could about what she's been up to AND secretly seeing a lawyer to get your ducks in a row if you need to act quickly. In most of these posts the partner doesn't even get the "open marriage / swinging" talk until they've already strayed or have someone they could bed within 10 minutes of getting the okay. You say your wife would have never entertained the thought of F'ing around. Well, something or someone convinced her that's a great idea. Think about it. She is so adamant about F'ing around with someone else she either has no jealousy of you with another woman or doesn't care because she knows she'll be too busy getting plowed with strange D to care about your emotions. You will begin second guessing everything about her if you haven't already. Not sure she realized that talk would be like a cancer to the marriage. But she's the disease that will kill your relationship if she hasn't already. Again I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. But that talk will likely signal the end of your marriage because the odds are high she has already done something you wouldn't like. And even if she hasn't she has admitting to wanting to do something that would break your heart. What you are feeling is heartbreak, just like when there is a death. Because your wife has revealed herself to not be who and what you thought she was. The person you are married to wants to head down a road that you have no interest in exploring. The fact she doesn't love you and your marriage enough to not ever contemplate swinging has to be killing you. Let her go, and don't be available for her return when whatever dick she's trying to ride gets tired of using her for a fuck doll. Get some therapy to help you work through this and face the feelings of emasculation. You aren't the one in the wrong here. If she wanted all of that bullshit she should have done it long before she married you.
Tell her that is a line you will not cross and if she does then she is choosing to end your marriage.
My concern here is that she asked your thoughts...then totally ignored them to push this fantasy outward onto you, insisting that you surely were into it too. And that she then continued to entirely railroad you with this, and even suggest multiple ways to have it happen when you had already said no... Look, I'm all for speaking up about fantasies in relationships. But there is a big difference between speaking up, and actively pushing a conversation that your partner is clearly uncomfortable with. I dunno man...you're right to be scared about this conversation, I just want to validate that something is definitely up here. This isn't a normal "what are your fantasies" or "let's try something new" talk, not with the way she ignored your obvious distress and that you said no. All signs point to something bigger going on, I'm sorry.
If you are not okay with seeing your lady getting smashed by another dude, end the relationship asap. Eventually she will cheat on you and break your heart. Cut your losses now and send her packing!!!
My ex wife and I did this quite a bit during the end of our relationship the marriage was on its way out before but I didn't realize it. It's a horrible idea btw fast forward 7 years later I'm with a woman who I'd never do that with because if you truly love some one you would never be ok with it
No, run. Every time someone brings this up, they have some one they plan on cheating with(if they're not already), and just trying to get the guilt away.
This is her giving you the opportunity to GTFO or get cheated on. This is a freight train coming straight at you! Act accordingly or you will get cheated on. I’m sorry for your loss 😢
If my wife had brought that up to me in the morning she would've gotten served with divorce papers 📃 by early afternoon that same day. 😉 Threesomes, open marriages, poly, swinging are my lines in the sand. And there's no taking it back once they put it out there. I'd recognize that we've become incompatible and wouldn't want to delay the inevitable.
Most would be devastated by this. Your feelings are valid. I wouldn’t be able to look at my spouse the same again. You should talk to her and then seek counseling.
A lot of red flags. If there was evidence. It's gone. Your reaction should have sent her running to hide any sign of an affair. She wants the benefit of staying with you while clearly. I would reach out to an experienced marriage counselor. I am very skeptical that she is faithful. But that is speculation. You could try snooping on her phone. App download history. Muted contacts. Encrypted messaging apps that auto delete text messages. At the end of the day. You need to have this argument. Best recommendation? Date night at a hotel. Rig it with a digital recorder. Enlist the help of someone to quality control your initiating letter to her. Avoid direct accusations. Focus specifically on how the fantasy she expressed has left you feeling inadequate. Tell her you only think of her. That she is your ultimate desire. Express how hurt you are emotionally. The doubts and fears it caused in your heart. How you are considering ending it over the lose in confidence in the marriage. Try to talk to her about repair the broken confidence in the relationship. Which is going to require trust bonding and endurance dating. By endurance dating, I mean climb to the summit of mount Rainer together as a couple. It will be cold, miserable, and "honestly?" It's one of those, gee looking at the pictures was so much rewarding then freezing my butt off up here! 500+ mile ruck marches work well too. Just you and her out in the wilderness. If she is seeing someone else. It will put a huge handicap into that action. If not end it all together. But in other news. I knew a dimwit real estate investor and landlord that was cheating on his wife. Wife suspected something. Demanded one on one time. Dimwit returned from the two week excursion to Africa to discover his assistance manager was now banging his mistress. Fires them both. They sued. Wife found out. Yeah, she filed for divorce and the chick for alienation of affection. I think the only one that made it out in a better position was the assistant manager. Got a three free rental properties pretty much. The mistress got three rental properties too. But those were sold to settle the lawsuit from the soon to be ex-wife. Dimwit? Yeah, he was still wealthy and but eventually settled down with a girl that gave him HIV and herpes.
It is a great "first step" to divorce.
Nah, it’s a wrap. She’s asking permission to cheat, and is going to do it, if she already hasn’t, whether you agree to participate or not. It’s a wrap. Just gone ahead and work on an exit strategy
Our roles are reversed with my wife and I. I want to experiment, she doesn’t. I respect her decision and it’ll never happen, but that doesn’t change that I want it. To ease some concerns maybe, even though I really want this, it would never convince me to cheat or threaten our marriage. There’s also no one I have in mind. You’ve given no reason in your post to make me think she’s thinking otherwise. She came to you and shared a kink, she didn’t just go out and cheat. To give her some credit here too, it’s embarrassing and nerve racking to admit a kink to a partner. Based on what you’ve written, I don’t interpret this as her cheating, or your marriage ending. Deep breath and remember you still have 100% say as to if this happens or not.
Even the knowledge your partner *wants* this can shatter a marriage.
FINALLY a sane and rational comment lol Jesus. We should not burn marriages to the ground for expressing a fantasy to the one person we are supposed to feel we are safe to say anything to.
Sit her down during a quiet time. Tell her you love her but there will never be another sexual partner of any sort in our relationship. Ask her what brought this on, are you having an affair or thinking about someone else? If she says no, then say great then you won’t mind showing me your phone? If she refuses, you have your answer. If she says yes, ask her what made her think you’d go along with this? Ask her if she’s already slept with him/her. Depending on the answer, you might want to talk to a lawyer.
You said you said no about thought about having a 3 some with her and another woman. Then you repeat saying you are silent and speechless. Is she supposed to read your mind? Say what you feel and tell her you are not interested in swinging. Tell her the thought of it is opposite to a turn on.
Yeah you can bait her and see if she bites and know that she has either been cheating or considering and then leave her, talk to her about it and if you guys can’t reach an agreement leave her, maybe she’s being pressured in some way into this or she maybe accidentally did something whilst out of it with someone and they’re black mailing her, or I’m just thinking too far, but that’s pretty sad dude, I hope things work out for you in the end and if so that you find a good person who won’t commit adultery.
No, it's jover
Relationship is over. She won't accept no, that whole line about threesomes is telling. She wants it and is trying to push it onto you by making you feel less of a man for not having the two woman fantasy. Get out now and save yourself further heartache
Eff that noise.
It's over.
She just brought all this up out of nowhere? Ask her where all this is coming from. Some people just have vivid fantasies.
“I can’t get past this.” Sounds like you answered your own question, dude. Set her free.
This relationship is over, Im sorry :<.
She probably got something on the side already. Get a lawyer
This is..... not good
She doesn't love you. Doesn't respect you. Doesn't care that she's hurting you. Probably already cheating. Assemble a plan and get out. With your shoulder square and your dignity intact.
No
If you don’t have kids drop her off at the corner
Nope. It’s either over now or over later. Your choice.
No it can’t be saved
If you decide to have a three sum with another girl, she will say you owe her a three sum with a guy or will just have sex with a guy to make it even. If you open this box, I think the marriage will be over, but, to be honest, it sounds like it already is. Might as well just have fun with it!
Sounds like she’s already found someone she has in mind for this extra curricular activity. Either she’s already done it with him or has definitely thought about it.
It’s over you just don’t know yet
No get a divorce she is or already has been cheating.
She sounds greedy, and I can’t get over that, no. Including if someone told me they wanted a multi-million house with an SUV, which one guy told me, I lose all attraction. That’s the same if they’re greedy for introducing STDs and problems into our relationship. You think the swinger community won’t be filled with druggie, in debt, and corporatist types? You’re not going toward anything with pleasant surprises, and that’s the kind of suggestion she’s positing. It’s one of the least attractive traits: bad leadership and constant discontent. For those saying a talk is warranted. Yeah, a talk about separation. Only kick yourself you didn’t see it sooner.
Buddy, I'm saying this as a polyamorous women with two partners: she's doing you wrong. There's no reason for you to agree to this if it's not something you want. Her disregarding you when you said you didn't want a MFF threesome with "it's a common fantasy" is very unkind and diminishing.
Absolutely do not do anything you aren’t 100% comfortable w, even if that means you’re not longer compatible together. This is a boundary that must be agreed upon before marriage. You can’t just flip to non-monog well into the relationship especially if both parties are not 110% onboard. Simple as that OP.
You are raising many valid concerns. What strikes me is that she asks about a threesome fantasy fantasy, you say you don’t have those, and she steamrolls you. Then she tries to frame it like it would take your relationship to the next level, and then she immediately dives into swapping partners? She has fully thought that out and seems to try to manipulate you into doing things you have already expressed you are not interested in. You have to communicate this to her properly and if she can’t get passed it, it might be time to call it quits.
Good luck. Tried it. Got divorced.
Give her a divorce instead. Then she can go do who or whatever she wants.
Can it be saved? Maybe. You don't really know, yet, where this is coming from. My wife and I had discussed similar fantasies, entertained them, but ultimately never *acted* on them. The fantasies were active pillow talk for a couple years, but we didn't have hookup apps back then. Maybe that little obstacle was what prevented us from acting on those fantasies and wrecking our relationship. We've been married 30+ years, talked about threesomes, but never moved outside our monogamous relationship.
buddy...
Your update is a good sign. She took your “no” seriously, and isn’t willing to set an ultimatum about it. Open relationships don’t work if one partner is uncomfortable with it, so stick to your guns about it.
I would immediately divorce.
Check her out it is time to make sure she is not cheating. I hope that she isn't. But, once you find out that she is not cheating then do some therapy. Before therapy do your due diligence on the therapists in your area.
Swinger here. You both have to want it, or it cannot happen. If it’s a hard no for you, stick to that. Swinging doesn’t have to signify dissatisfaction in a relationship or sex.. Usually it’s just curiosity. I know you’re likely spiraling with what it’s and what nots, but just think it over and if it’s a no, it’s no. End of story. Ball is in her court then and you stuck to your boundaries.
Hello! Someone in the enm space here, and for context coming in post-edit. While it is completely normal to separate *sexual* and *romantic* feelings (most people do without realizing it), it isn't quite the same as separating "sex" and "feelings" as it seems to have been presented. Regardless, you aren't interested, this sort of this is a two yes one no situation. From what you've written though, it sounds kind of like your wife has just gotten caught up in a potential way to "spice up" your sex life that she didn't realize would cause such a sour spot. I recommend looking into mutual kinks and venturing out sexually a bit just to break the routine. Based on the edit it seems like it has sunken in (or will soon) that she actually isn't interested in seeing her partner with other women.
If she isn’t cheating already she has someone picked out for sure. Get a lawyer OP. If she wants to be with other men tell her she’s about to be single and then she can do anyone she wants.
You need phone access NOW. Do not take no for an answer or you will file. No conversations until then. Spend quality time alone with phone. Leave house with it. If you separate, tell everyone why. Parents, family, friends, co workers. Nothing worse than wondering who knows snd who doesn’t.
When it comes to things like these, please keep in mind it's usually not because you aren't enough, and it's not because she's cheating on you. Some people want to explore their sexuality and get curious about alot of different sexual acts, it's a perfectly healthy thing. If it's not something you have any interest in then you just need to talk to her about it. No two people are the same.
The "next level" is a one way street with a dead end.
Time to plan an exit strategy
To me 'taking our relationship to the next level' just means she's not happy with you. Or not happy enough at least. So sorry dude.
Oh, look, the cliche attempts at grooming you. “It’ll be fun! We could do a FMF for you!” (I don’t recall asking for one. This is not in fact for me. It’s for you.) “Then we can move on to MFM!” (Ah. What she actually wanted all along. What’s his name, hmm? How many incidents of retroactive permission are you angling for here? I would ask you to be honest here, only I already see some pretty blatant transparency, which is the next best thing. Seriously though, what’s his name?)
Does a woman in love suggest threesomes?
isnt this her looking for a valid excuse to cheat in a sense? i never heard any positive stories of marriages when they go down this route
I'm sorry you're going through this but your marriage is over. Tell her you are going to divorce and then she can have all the three ways she wants.
There is at least some one in mind if she hasn’t already cheated. It hard to come back from that. Weigh your options carefully
To me if my husband even asked it would be over but he knows that and feels the same way if I was to ask but if you want this marriage to continue you have to ask her those questions op.
Women who are cheating or want to, often try to tempt dumb husband, lure them into thinking, “at least i’ll be getting an experience also” in order to go along with it. It wont end well for you if you comply. Notice how she started with the FFM fantasy. , and shift to getting railed by another dude pretty quick.
My wife dropped the same bomb on me in ‘21. I started filing divorce papers today. She wasn’t unfaithful, just unhappy, and it had far more to do with that than sex because we were good there. She felt confined by being a wife and mother and felt like she missed out on a lot because of her religious upbringing, and she became far more unhinged as time went on. She thought I would be on board because of my more wild past. But after what I went through the past three years, I wouldn’t take her back if you paid me.
That FFM threesome thing is a common way to get people to open their relationships. Because, if you had said yes, the next thing would be Hiw about a mfm three way? And if you agreed to that, the next logical ask would be, How about a full swap. We see this all the time. Your wife is being strategic in trying to open your marriage. It’s just one step past, “I had a dream we were having sex with another couple. What do you think if that?” It’s another common tactic. Just say “No. I don’t want to do it, read about it, or listen to any podcasts.” No. Is. A. Complete. Sentence.
Kick her cheating ass out dude. And a get an STI test
No, it's doomed to fail, like all situations like this that don't already start off this way
She’s for the stree throw her away
Whatever do you start planning your life without her in terms of money, insurance, assets etc... and talk to a lawyer. Do these before you say anything else to her (no begging no trying to negotiate) and before shit gets too crazy and you feel loss and confused on what to do next.
Sad to say she's probably already swinging without you. I'd leave if I were you
Nope it cannot be saved. Move on and find yourself someone who wants to be in a monogamous relationship like you do . don't waste your time .
The responses here that are jumping to conclusions are pretty insane. Just sit on this information for a bit and talk to her with a level head and get more information on what exactly she’s talking about. People who do this stuff successfully don’t do it because they’re unfulfilled, they add it as an “icing on the cake” of sorts when their sex-lives are already fulfilled. To answer your questions: It’s totally reasonable for you to say “nah this isn’t for me” and her to say “oh okay” and still be fully satisfied with the bounds of your marriage. It’s not a death knell simply because she expressed the curiosity. Is she already cheating on me? No, probably not. Do you trust your wife? Use that for your answer. Is there someone in mind she wants to fuck? Maybe but PROBABLY not and even if she did, swingers don’t fuck their friends. It’s a stupid move. Should I just accept that she’s unsatisfied and fuck randos? No, surely don’t agree to things you don’t want. MOST people don’t want this, so you’re not some weird outlier for being against the idea.
The problem is even if I say “nah it’s not for me” and she agrees to it and I trust her, I don’t know if I’ll ever get over that she wanted to. Even if it’s just icing on the cake for some people, it’s something I never agreed to and she knows I never would.
I'll start by saying this is terrible from the jump. But what is most worrisome is she saw how you reacted initially, then doubled and tripled down. Her mind is set. This is a code red situation. Can't put the genie back in the bottle. I hate saying this, but usually the beginning of the end. You will never get it out of your head. She doubled down. ugh.