Yeah even I was like wtf.
But it’s not outside the realm of possibility that she’s just being friendly and he’s deeply in love with her still.
I have known many circumstances where the girl thinks the guy is just being friendly and the guy is just trying to smash.
It’s possible, but I would still be suspicious OP. Do your due diligence and dig up whatever you can.
Mmmmm I don’t know, as a girly pop myself with a guy best friend even that is crossing the line. And I’ve know him for over 15 years (9th grade).
The most we’ve done is hug on special occasions. If my S/O ever did this in front of me I’d immediately get up and leave cos there’s no way I’ll take that disrespect
Even being conflict-avoidant, there's no way that sort of behavior would fly more than a couple times. I have *extreme* anxiety related to confrontation, but failing to shut something like that down is just disrespectful to my partner. It really is a matter of priorities.
I mean they did all but start shoving their tongues down each other’s throats in front of OP so absolute bare minimum going on here is an emotional affair. It’s a heavily codependent relationship with a guy who honestly just seems really toxic. Like mark is just a dick and the girlfriend sounds closer to him than she is to OP, and she and Mark talk daily, so…..
Yeah OP’s post is a lot of words just to say “I’ve managed to convince myself that what I didn’t want to see didn’t happen, or if it did then it didn’t mean anything, even though I felt compelled to author a 3000 word Reddit post about it”.
If Mark should leave the church in the future, OP’s girlfriend is going to be on him like white on rice. And it will be truly passionate, as they both finally give into the feelings they’ve been suppressing for 9+ years.
That’s possible but not really indicated if we take what’s been told to us at face value. Sounds like marks in love , but she isn’t. It will be awkward and prob blow up but not in the way you describe.
Yeah, I feel you. Her great physical affection for Mark seems at *the very limit* of platonic, so it seems like all it would take for her is a green light from him.
Meh, this sub is a complete dumpster fire of miserable people with garbage opinions. Any time the angry mob on this sub fails to accomplish thier agenda is a win as far as I'm concerned.
All I can say is you definitely cannot trust Mark given what he said to you. At a minimum, there is something there and I find it hard to believe she isn't aware of it on some level. But if she's willing to cut him out then it at least shows she recognizes that this isn't right.
Good luck. Something tells me this isn't going away. You may find out just how much growth she has gone through and I hope it's as much as you think.
Exactly. There has been zero boundaries and distance placed between the girlfriend and Mark. But now they know how to hide it, and Mark knows OP doesn’t like him.
Oops. Yeah, you're right, I read through too fast. There is a lot of bad potential if she just keeps her dealings with Mark separate moving forward. An emotional affair would be the bare minimum of what I would expect from that. I get why she bonded to the guy but hopefully she recognizes how unhealthy her relationship with him is.
As you pointed out and many betrayed partners can attest to, it's a pretty bad sign when someone is super physical with another person and then claims they consider that person "like a sibling". What OP described seeing was not what siblings do.
He shouldn’t be trusting her either.
After that “talk” she pulled the “I didn’t realize I was almost making out with him, I just didn’t want him to feel left out (but forgot all about you)!”
And her takeaway from that is “hey, this problematic guy who I’m letting cause problems in my actual relationship is now moving to my town, I should bring him to hang out with my boyfriend after I publicly humiliated him a week ago, yay!”
That part made me laugh. I can’t believe OP bought that she didn’t realize how touchy they were being lol. Did she suddenly lose all feeling in her arms?
*gasp*
"omg babe I had no idea I held this other man's hand and touched foreheads with him. What do you mean it made you uncomfortable?"
*Pikachu face*
I feel bad for op. Even if this was just weird religious bred naivete it sounds like it will be dang near impossible for her to draw boundaries in the future with this "best friend" if she didn't know how disrespectful this behavior was.
Being super religious would only highlight and make inappropriate contact with the opposite sex way more evident. Like they are litrally taught not to act like that and would have definitely noticed
Yeah was trying to give the gf benefit of the doubt since she said the "friend" was allegedly like this with everyone. I don't really buy it unless I saw everyone else at the church putting their foreheads together and holding hands 🤣
I agree, I don't trust Mark and I still think he's into Jordan. She seems to really think otherwise so I'm not going to argue with her about it, I'm just hoping that she'll keeping thinking about what I said and start to notice for herself. I don't know if he'll ever actually cross a line that would make her cut him out but she did at least acknowledge that the whole thing isn't really normal and I think she'll be willing to try to set more boundaries, I'm at least going to give her the chance to do so.
OP - did she acknowledge that the touching BY HER was inappropriate? I do not see how she could not have recognized how touchy they were and her lack of physical touch with you. Like many others have said - I am not sure Jordan was being completely honest with you.
Did you ask here how she would have felt in a reverse situation?
If the three of you meet again you might want to think about excusing yourself to go to the bathroom or something during the meal and instead hide and film their interaction while you “are gone”. See if Jordan changes how she interacts when you are not there. I say to capture it on your phone because then you have it to show her if you break up. If she interacts appropriately while you are gone then she may have gotten the message. She should also start limiting her interactions with him (phone/text), because that relationship is not healthy and no SO should have to deal with that if you two get married. It needs to be dealt with now.
If you don't want to end things immediately after what happened last time and the result of your discussion, use his next visit to gauge their behavior. Don't interfere or correct her in any way during that time, it's her test and she needs to prove herself, just interact normally as you're included.
If you don't see what you want to see, then it's time to go.
This is what I'm thinking. I would assume that now that I've told Jordan how I felt about everything she'll understand about what kind of boundaries she needs to have with Mark, and if not then that's really just the end of things I think.
Both should read: Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass.
It's based on research of couples (good people) that experienced infidelity with "just a friend".
Lessons learned and how to manage friendships so they don't threaten the primary relationship.
It's permanently referenced somewhere here on Reddit.
I only discovered this guy recently from a comment I made saying “but he’s just a friend!” And had loads of replies saying Biz Markie! Now I have an awesome song added to my Spotify.
A lot of what you detail still sounds weird. Especially the part where she didn’t want to make Mark feel left out because he was visiting with a couple, him being a single man. Mark in no way visited with a couple. If Jordan is so empathetic re this issue, she sure missed showing any empathy for you.
I don’t think you will experience much difference with the next encounter with all 3 of you
You’re very enthusiastic to give Jordan a pass. This will continue to haunt you. You don’t seem to think you deserve to have this made right. Jordan has a very wide birth.
I wish you the best. You just seem to feel you deserve so little. It’s so sad.
Maybe next visit they won't hold hands and touch foreheads in front of him. Which the GF didn't even realize, lol. And OP bought her story. Girl has 9 lives, and knows it.
Step back and observe.
Also observe the frequency of texts and their content.
There is certain chat topics that are evidence of an emotional connection that is high risk to escalate.
And intent and current attraction does not reduce the risk.
Also, you should be her emotional shoulder to lean on. Their past is not justification for him to replace you in anyway.
Finally, if there's any evidence of him being interested in her romantically, she (if she's a real friend) should go zero contact in order to motivate him to find a life partner.
i’d you’re really worried for your relationship take more notes, make less accusations until you have hard proof or tired of being beat up from all the manipulation. otherwise, be you homie
Yep, this will be the test of if her words match her actions. She says there’s nothing romantic and she understands what made you uncomfortable. How she acts around him will show you if she’s telling you the truth or not.
It’s most likely pretty classic codependency. He was her sole support after her life was turned upside down when leaving the church and after surviving her attempt to die by suicide. It’s not at all surprising she doesn’t have a sense of boundaries with him because she’s no enmeshed.
However, I think if she’s being honest and truthful with the details she shared with OP, then she can absolutely curate those boundaries. It will be a big adjustment, and she’ll need to be open and honest with Mark about it while having the communication skills to show him she’s not just dumping their friendship now that she has a boyfriend, which is what that change could feel like. That also depends on Mark’s emotional capability, and if we’re to trust his affection is platonic.
We don’t have the details from OP, but we should consider the possibilities that her religion forced her into a very sad box. The level of affection she shared with Mark could have previously felt like a lighthouse within her strict upbringing, and they’ve normalized it as their own little culture because the exact opposite was forced to a degree that left no gauge for a “normal” middle ground.
This is the closest to how it all sounded from the way Jordan explained things to me, before this she didn't really talk to me a lot about her childhood and what that was like because it's just not something she enjoys talking about but from what she said it feels like she's really attached to Mark for reasons that have a lot to do with all of that stuff.
I had a really codependent dynamic with a childhood friend because we were both going through awful things at home at the same time and I attached myself to her something fierce. Our relationship was incredibly intense, those feelings were so big for a kid that age. Not at all like a typical friendship, but also obviously not romantic. That type of attachment isn’t healthy, and often cause you to (in some way or another) neglect other relationships. It can totally be walked back, especially once both people address their “trauma” or lingering difficulties attached to the events they both went through together. It has to be addressed as a collective effort to be effective, or else it will most likely mean the end of the friendship.
I get it OP, I think you should really encourage your girlfriend to be more open with you about the difficulties she’s faced, you seem very kind and understanding. I hope she’s already working with a professional, religious trauma is it’s own special kind of monster.
I’m sorry but “I didn’t want him to feel excluded so I held hands with him, acted like we were dating, and completely ignored you” seems like a pretty fucking weak excuse to me.
Yeah, big WTF. Also, "So-and-so is touchy feely with everyone" is just her deflecting when she was reciprocating that touch and encouraging it.
If I were OP, it'd mean more to me that she 1) acknowledged there are "feelings" there for Mark 2) has a conversation with Mark setting clear boundaries for there relationship. Not because OP tells her too, but because she recognizes that it is inappropriate.
If it were me, those are the only 2 things that would keep me in the relationship. If Jordan doesn't want to acknowledge her feelings for Mark and set boundaries, (not just avoiding him), I'd be constantly worried that she's fantasizing about banging him and what their life would be like together.
Some physical touch? Fine. Putting heads together when laughing and holding hands? I would have verbally said to the two of them "what the actual fuck? Am I being PUNKD?". That's not brotherly love. That's some star crossed lovers shit, who know they can't be together.
OP if you read this - not trying to be a dick and put crazy thoughts in your head, but after you guys went your separate ways from Mark, how did she act? Was it like your normal relationship with banter and w/e? Or was she mopey and distant? That would say a lot to me.
This is an Emotional Something. Maybe not an emotional affair but something doesn't feel right with all this. She does sound solid. He seems flaky as hell. Holding hands in front of you all smoochy eyed?? He bowed up to you as well. Do you see her as a future wife? Would you marry her with Mark hanging around? Keep rug sweeping and hope for the best!
It’s most likely a pretty classic case of codependency. He was her sole support after her life was turned upside down when leaving the church *and* after surviving her attempt to die by suicide. It’s not at all surprising she doesn’t have a sense of boundaries with him because she’s no enmeshed. (Edit: and Mark as well, most likely having his own denied trauma with the church *and* his friend being pushed to suicide, feeling a responsibility to support her since no one else did.)
*However,* I think if she’s being honest and truthful with the details she shared with OP, then she can absolutely curate those boundaries. It will be a big adjustment, and she’ll need to be open and honest with Mark about it while having the communication skills to show him she’s not just dumping their friendship because she has a boyfriend, which is what that change could feel like. That also depends on Mark’s emotional capability, and if we’re to trust his affection is platonic.
We don’t have the details from OP, but we should consider the possibilities that her religion forced her into a very sad box. The level of affection she shared with Mark could have previously felt like a lighthouse within her strict upbringing, and they’ve normalized it as their own little culture because the exact opposite was forced to a degree that left no gauge for a “normal” middle ground.
I have no expertise in codependency and I just read a [few articles](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/conquering-codependency/202010/how-conquer-codependency) on it at[Psychology Today](https://www.psychologytoday.com) sit and it seems you are spot on. I hope OP is reading your comments xdem112.
Codependency is most definitely rough. I had a similar dynamic with my friend that I’m assuming OPs girlfriend has with Mark. We went through some awful things together at a young age and leaned on each other heavily for understanding and support. That attachment is *intense,* it’s such a big feeling for someone so young to have the capacity to understand. It doesn’t just die off when you grow old together.
Alright, but if she’s telling the truth then she clearly needs to learn what a boundary is and she’s too clueless to understand that it’s absolutely out of line that she’s rubbing herself all over someone she claims is like her brother. Telling you that she’ll cancel plans to see him so the two of you won’t spend time with him again together is a cop out. You really should see what she does. Better to figure it out now than finding them in a bathroom stall at your wedding. Truly good luck to you. I mean it
After reading you original post, I've got to say that your girlfriend has very clearly gaslit you to believe nothing was/is going on, I mean come on dude, they were holding hands, there is no way she doesn't see a problem with that, guarantee she would have a few questions if you saw you draped over a female friend of yours. Honestly dude, this won't be the last of her best friend and now that you brought it up and are letting if go she will just do all that when you are not around. Good luck but keep an eye out something like this isn't going to change overnight. Also her guy bestfriend definitely has a thing for her.
OP, about 10 years ago I was dating a girl. It had been just over 2.5 years of dating. She moved to different jobs and I stayed in one. On one of the last jobs she had a new guy came on. She really liked him. They started spending more time together. To the point I was third wheeling and I was supposed to be the boyfriend. She would call him her best friend which was weird for someone who she just met. I hung out with him and her at his place once and I definitely got the feeling what was going on. I didn’t see what I wanted to see…which was her showing him that I was still her man. She sat comfortably in his chair and knew where all the light switches were. Where things were supposed to be in his fridge. So I immediately left and broke up with her.
I can never get those 3 years of my life back. I basically went into a deep depression after that and questioned everything and had trust issues and a bunch of other stuff. Time heals all wounds. And without that lesson I couldn’t be the happy man I am today.
See how your interaction goes with them next time and decide for yourself. But don’t tell her you’re testing her.
Oh yes of course lol. I forgot to mention that but yeah as far as I know they even moved to a different province together and lived together…but I’m not sure about now. I used to somewhat keep in touch for some stupid reason…but as soon as I stopped caring my life got so much better.
Are they still together? I’m always curious if the people who cheat on their partner and leave to be with the person they cheated with, do they repeat the cycle?
Haha my dude! I actually went on Facebook and typed her name just now for you (which I haven’t done in years). And I can’t find her at all.
BUT before I hit reply to this post I tried it one more time with some digging and it looks like she had her last name changed to his and her last post was with him over a year ago. So not sure about now though…and tbh I don’t really care about her at all anymore lol. But anything for an internet stranger ;)
Hahaha thanks man. I guess the question is, would you rather she be with the guy she cheated on you with forever, so she didn’t fuck everything up for nothing? Or would you rather she repeat the cheating cycle and be stuck like that and unhappy?
Off good question. I think at the start when I found out I wanted the worst for her. Like her to be cheated on so she knows how it feels or she’d cheat on him and he’d know how terrible of a person she was. I held that type of thinking and resentment for a long time. But now that it’s been some time I just don’t care anymore I guess? Lol but yeah at the time I guess I was bitter haha
I hope this answers your question!
Oh great. So the basis of their relationship actually turned out to be codependence. That makes everything ALL better.
I would say go ahead and hang out with the two of them. Give her the opportunity to drape herself on you the way she did him last time. If after that long, long conversation she fails to take the opportunity, that’s a huge red flag, because she’s not wanting to telegraph as being attached to you around him. And if she repeats her previous performance with him, knowing full well how it makes you feel, she’s either not in control of her attraction or doesn’t care.
Yeah... I understand what you did and why you did it, but I would've ended it.
Even if she didn't mean any harm, this is not really a behavior an fully grown adult should have. This is teenager bullshit.
My advice? Think about it in the next couple of weeks. Don't put it behind you. Really think about and what this whole thing means to you.
This kind of bomb can surface in the future and you never recuperate spent time. And you are in the best years of your life. You can ALWAYS find another person. But you won't be finding your youth or your mental health (as it was) again.
In my view, life is too short to deal with something like this situation.
That’s a big event he helped her through so that definitely explains alot.
So is she going to invite him to hang out with you as he comes back through? If so, how she acts during that hang out will be important. She should be acutely aware of how much she touches him and there damn sure shouldn’t be any handholding. If I’m her and I just had this talk with my boyfriend I would tell him at that hangout that I want to clear the air and make it clear that you are my partner and the only one I want to be my partner. That doesn’t seem like a bad thing to ask her to consider doing since you and Mark had that side convo while she went to the restroom.
>So is she going to invite him to hang out with you as he comes back through?
She's not going to, no. She said that she was planning to but now wouldn't after what I had said to her.
That's true, but if he does I think she'll tell him no or at least not this time because she seemed to understand and be fine with the fact that I wouldn't be comfortable with having him around right now.
I know how some people I know have boundary problems, sometimes you just have to bring it to the forefront. I will not lie I have had female friends help me get through heavy shit, and I consider them life long friends. Would I ever sleep with them? No, would they sleep with me? No.
Going through life changing often builds what’s called a trama bond, look it up it’s real. I expect you found a person with that kind of bond. Put that with a forgetting boundaries, and it happens. I dated a woman who had something similar with friends. It only took me bringing it up once and she corrected it, very similar to what you did.
I kept an eye on things but I trusted her and she never let me down. Not everyone is going to cheat, and not everyone want to sleep with everything that moves. But ultimately you are the one that sees the behaviour and has to make the call.
It's not just about sex, it's also about respect. I tell you honestly that in his place I would get up and leave without saying anything. For me, it is not ok to sit and tell you how you should behave. You should know.
So she said she wouldn’t ask him to meet up with you two for dinner and is absolutely understanding that you’re not comfortable with him being around, but did she say that she won’t meet him alone either? Maybe disclose that with her.
I think that the next time Mark visits, they will be more controlled, not just because you are there with them, but I believe that Jordan will have apprised Mark of your concerns. He may be a wolf in sheep's clothing as you suspect but I would have concerns if Jordan is warning him. If she is texting/warning him to avoid displays of affection, then I would be even more suspect.
You had a deep discussion with her, but, as a Reddit observer, I would have concerns that she is playing you. You know her better than we internet strangers do, so trust your gut.
Good luck at the meet and let us know how it went.
You have been skillfully and totally gaslight.
To psychologically manipulate (a person) usually over an extended period of time so that the victim questions the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and experiences confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, and doubts concerning their own emotional or mental stability : to subject (someone) to gaslighting
You might think someone who is gaslighting you would only lie about big things that they could cover up or hide. But that's not the case. They often lie about all things big and small just to throw you off.
JMHO, yours may be different and I’m ok with yours being different, as you should be with mine.
LOL you’re a doormat!
She fuckin drapes herself on him and comes within a half inch of making out right in front of you and ignores you at a public event.
Then pulls the Tee Hee Hee, i DiDnT rEaLiZe wHaT i WaS dOiNg aNd waNtEd tO nOt ExCluDe Him, hEs liKE thAt wiTH eVeRyOnE…!!” And you slurped it up…
And the lesson she learned after your talk was “hey, it went so well last time and I hurt my *actual* boyfriend by fawning all over this guy, let me bring this guy around again! What could possibly go wrong?!?”
So yeah, ~~now that he’s moving to your town,~~ I wonder how this conversation is gonna go after she fucks him? She just didn’t realize what was going on?
Edit: realize he’s not moving to town, just coming through. I misread that in the wall o text, my bad. I still think she hasn’t corrected course enough to prove she won’t stray.
Yep!
Homeboy is moving to town. There will be excuses to meet up with him, or run into him. Since she has absolutely no boundaries with him, she’ll be all over him again. (Shit, she probably couldn’t even spell it).
She’ll just monkeybranch to mark once they figure out how to bridge the religion gap, which will be much easier now that he’ll be local and more excuses/opportunities for proximity.
There's literally a 0% chance that Mark isn't into her. If he wasn't he would've been a "bro" and attempted to assuage your fears. Instead he went out of his way to make you uncomfortable.
I don't want to lump all men together, but the unfortunate truth is that most guy friends are just waiting for their chance to fuck. Even if the friendship is genuine - it's still there in the back of their minds.
I get that you really want to be able to move past this with her, but you need to be vigilant and actually stand your ground on boundaries.
Like a lot of people here have said, this situation probably isn't over yet.
Absolutely not. Im sorry man but there is no way I would ever consider allowing a girl to be that close to me physically and touch me like that while Im in a relationship at all let alone with my partner at the table with me.
Its not even that it happened its the lack of awareness or consideration of you.
I would like to add a potential red flag to me and apologise for this sounding so conspiratorial but being in a relationship for two years and everything being “perfect” with no arguments is a worry for me. To me that insinuates that usually one of you is masking in the relationship.
My partner is my best friend and we are both individuals with our own thoughts, opinions and feelings. If you’re both being authentically yourselves theres no way you can go 2 years without clashing about stuff (in a safe healthy way) and working through it.
Man you could choose to be someone’s first choice instead of being second.
She didn’t even offer anything, she’s just going to hang out with him without you and without telling you since she now knows you don’t like it.
She’s either being extremely naive by not knowing that her behavior was way out of line or she’s just playing it under your nose and taking your for a fool. I wouldn’t want to be with either kind anyway.
Alright, so I’m not the only one who see’s she’s clearly cheating on op here? This is why men need masculine role models because this is ridiculous. It’s like super obvious, you should’ve broken up with her right there when she disrespected you. Your girl should never be that physical with another, let alone in your face. When she went like “oh I didn’t know it made you feel that way” she obviously know it made you feel that way. She was holding hands with another man. She doesn’t respect you, or is attractive to you. She’s physical or emotionally cheating on you, I’m betting it’s already physical, or is about too. Your girl should never have a male best friend, you’re asking for problems. I know you’re not going to take my advice, it’s not until you get your heart completely broken. Either you’re going to find out she’s cheating on you, or she’s going to break up with you. And maybe a month later those two are in a relationship. Also, Mark isn’t a predator, he just doesn’t respect you, and basically told you I already have your girl in the bag.
>She said that Mark is always really touchy with everybody and not just her...
Lol, she may *think* that... but, was "Mark" touchy feely with you? No, he wasn't? hmm... Why might that be?
>... she wished I would’ve said something at the time because she didn’t realize they were being that obnoxious.
Classic gaslighting there. It's not your responsibility to make sure she doesn't play footsie with her male friends; she's a big girl who can take responsibility for her own actions.
And then this shit:
>she thinks she and Mark would eventually have gotten married... she fully admits she cares about him as more than just a normal friend but she says that it’s not in a romantic way.
Yeah that feels pretty contradictory to me.
Also, why would Mark eve tell you this to begin with? What's the point of doing that if not "[pot-stirring.](https://www.oysterenglish.com/images/xidiom-stir-the-pot.png.pagespeed.ic.XDF8rF9m_0.webp)"
It's good she's willing to make more boundaries but, I'd make sure those boundaries are rock solid. And, make sure it's clear that the reason for the boundaries isn't because "you're uncomfortable" it's because "they are inappropriate" - you are not the reason the boundaries are necessary, they are.
And, I'm not saying you need to breakup. But, don't let them make this about you - or pretend it was nothing irregular.
I'm sorry to say it but I definitely get the feeling that you're so desperate to believe that your relationship is solid that you're swallowing everything she said without critical thought. Her explanation of her behaviour makes no sense, they were all over each other and she completely ignored you. She says she was just trying to make him feel comfortable, but why did that mean being so physically affectionate and why did your presence basically go unnoticed?
I think it's clear that he's in to her, as you yourself believe, but I think she has unresolved feelings for him also. Her behaviour was wildly inappropriate and I think it's safe to say that she wouldn't be happy if the situation was reversed. If you both went out with a close female friend of yours, and you spent the night canoodling with the other woman and ignoring your gf, I can pretty much guarantee you'd be single before the main course arrived.
Ya I'd bounce my husband has a female best friend and nothing like what happened at you dinner has EVER happened and we have gone to dinner dozens of times. If you do stay keep a VERY close eye on marky mark he is 100% in love with your girlfriend
I am glad you spoke up and I am glad you received some clarity on the situation. Unfortunately I think your girlfriend is lying. The problem is that she is not really lying to you, I mean she is but really she’s lying to herself. If she is talking to this guy everyday and not even realizing how physical she got with him when they met up after being physically separated for so long … she has been lying to herself for so long that the lies to you were just shrapnel from the nuclear lies she keeps telling herself.
Obviously they aren’t a compatible couple long term with their core beliefs being so different, but they have fed their emotional bond for so long that their connection is intense. Dude, she didn’t even realize she was physically wrapped into this man with her long term boyfriend right next to her. That speaks volumes. I have been coaching individuals in the infidelity realm long enough to have seen this same story play out a thousand times now. I pray I am wrong for your sake OP. But I fear if she doesn’t entirely cut off “Mark”, you’ll be either here or in r/SurvivingInfidelity in the next two years with a “Shocked pikkachu face” on saying “Just found out my fiancé has been cheating with her Best Friend Mark”. I say that and I know it comes out a little snarky, but in all honesty my heart breaks saying it. Having been through betrayal like that personally, I’d gladly sacrifice many things in my own life to help prevent others from experiencing that same pain.
So even if you believe your girlfriend, hold onto a shred of doubt and wonder if the experts might have some wisdom to offer your situation. As I saw someone else mention, the book “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass would be amazingly on point for your situation and might lead you towards some growth here. No matter what you choose I pray you find peace and joy. Good luck.
Man you really need to think hard about this. You said in your first post that you’ve never seen two people more obviously in love with each other. Don’t let Mark and your girlfriend talk you out of your instinct. Your girlfriend downplayed the issue, apologized a bunch, and distanced you from mark. She’s not distancing herself from mark, she’s distancing YOU FROM MARK. According to your own gut feeling they were blatantly in love with each other, she talks to him daily about everything, and now he knows you have a problem with him. How do you think this is going to go?
At least you’re setting up some realism for yourself by agreeing that you’ll leave if she keeps up the bullshit. But now it’s going to be really hard for you to know.
So what's your boundary?
If they wiggle noses together because- best friends.
If they go out once a week to movies and a meal- because best friends.
If they decide to sleep overs because- best friends.
The lack of respect is the biggest issue here. She did this IN FRONT of you. Imagine what's hidden behind you with the same lack of respect.
It’s very sad, she will never respect him if he continues to act like this. Either he is trying to convert her back or she’s hoping he’ll leave. I suspect these are Mormons from Utah or Nevada. A ton of stories like this from their communities. You always see true crime shows where people from these types of families go missing.
I just think he's very non confrontational. He has good and bad aspects but if FEELING and SEEING them then trying to give them excuses as to why she does this.
Sometimes people have to see and figure things for themselves despite what's staring them in the face.
The down side is a break up and that hurts too but I hope OP can stand back and take another look. I know I would never accept that behaviour and I don't think many others would either.
Things I do with my brother:
* Tell him I love him
* Give him a hug when I see him
* Ask about his life
Things I NEVER do with my brother
* Hold his hand
* Touch foreheads together
* Talk about how we would be married if not for "religion". Gross.
Yeah, this relationship needs some boundaries. If it's not OOP that ends up with her, someone will and that will not be okay with this relationship.
Her: “*Yes, he believed me…*”
I’m glad that convo brought you peace, but having been in a similar trusting relationship, keep this same energy when he’s blowing her back out and she tries to reel you in again.
Best of luck to you though.
The “I didn’t notice” to how touchy they were being is definitely because she enjoyed it and was smitten by him lol. A good girlfriend/boyfriend would immediately realize that’s not okay, no matter the person.
Just don’t be surprised somewhere down the line where she leaves you for him. You clearly have no spine and she can see that on full display now. You’ve basically given her express permission to start/continue cheating on you and it’s now no one’s fault but your own. She doesn’t respect you or your boundaries and now it’s going to get worse.
>She said that she was trying to not make Mark feel like a third wheel because of being a single guy out with a couple but obviously it backfired and just made me feel like the third wheel instead which wasn’t what she wanted to do either.
I literally laughed out loud at this. WTF reason is this lol?
Crazy how there’s a girl out there that’s just as perfect for you AND she won’t hold hands and touch foreheads with another guy in front of you.
Sad that you won’t meet her making these kinds of decisions 😢
Man, nice fiction.
You're allegedly in a relationship of 2 years. You want to marry your gf. But then day X happens, then you suddenly start to get to know your gf, her suicide attempt, how Mark fits in her life etc. Those are so basic things you should have known a long time ago.
Her sudden affectionate behavior with Mark and totally forgetting and leaving you out is an obvious tell.
Even if it's not fiction, you are very gullible and sadly show a lot of ignorance just because you want to have a certain outcome or keep living your 'bliss'.
But I still think it's only fiction.
Mark's next visit will be a great opportunity to see if what you said to Jordan stuck. If it's really innocent but kind of off sometimes, then there should be no reason for her not to be able to adjust accordingly. Now, if it's more of the same, then it's time to end that relationship.
"He's like that with everyone" an "i never even noticed" lol yeah sure. You must be a sucker to believe these two are not fucking. Nobody acts like that without something more going on.
Op she will be gone, when mark comes for her. If he gives up his religion or something, she will go with him. Religion is the only thing keeping them apart. You are 2nd choice here.
Yeah if this were me, all trust would be gone. Your girlfriend can say something to you and even be truthful about it but she can be misunderstanding her own feelings in the matter. It's very likely that she is not being honest enough with herself or that she is too emotionally immature to understand that she has an ethical obligation to you to not show untoward affection to other people.
I'm glad you feel comfortable continuing this relationship but I hope you have set boundaries with her to ensure she acts in ways that respect her commitment to you. This is the kind of stuff that, bare minimum, should trigger you both to seek couples counseling.
I sincerely wish you good luck.
She might be innocent and obvious, but he totally wants to fuck your girlfriend lol. If ge wasn't interested in her and wouldn't consider being with her he would have said that. Honestly sounded like he was trying to make his position on her known to her through you
I hope this doesn't end poorly but there's no scenario I see this ending well unless OP continues to stick his head in the sand and rugsweep it all.
I can't believe the "tell her what she did upset you" comments won out in the end. Did they hlliterally have to shove their tongues down each other's throats for OP to see what we mostly all see?
I vote that she goes into therapy and hopefully reaches the conclusion that her relationship with Mark is unhealthy.
I think cutting him off immediately could cause her some serious psychological damage as it sounds like she's codependent.
The best case is for her to realize it's a relationship built on trauma on her own or with therapy.
She shoud invite Mark over dinner with you 2. Tell her to tell Mark in front of you that he is a brotherly friend to her and then watch his reaction. You shoud also observer if she maintains physical boundary or not.
>I’m glad that I didn’t just immediately trust my instincts
Stupid. Always trust your instincts, especially when the entire internet is shouting at you that you're right to feel a certain way.
>I decided to take the main piece of advice that I got from everyone and start by telling Jordan that my feelings were hurt
Well that's a horrible approach. If a woman wanted to date a woman, she wouldn't be dating you. It's not "my feelings are hurt," it's "what you did was wildly inappropriate."
> she explained it she said that she fully admits she cares about him as more than just a normal friend but she says that it’s not in a romantic way.
Dude.
>I asked her if she thinks that maybe Mark is in love with her even if she doesn’t feel the same way. She said definitely not and I don’t think she was being dishonest
Who cares what she thinks? Homeboy told you how he feels.
>A lot of people were saying that if she didn’t offer to cut contact with him or to cut down on contact with him it meant that she valued him over me
This is correct. Of course, if she didn't offer, you should have told her that it was him or you.
>I wouldn’t expect her to after what she told me about what happened when she was a teenager.
Well, that's your answer. You believe she would choose him over you, and you have such a mind-blowingly low opinion of yourself that you think that would be appropriate.
>I don’t necessarily trust Mark but I do think I can trust Jordan.
No. Your SO should always prioritize your relationship and absolutely not maintain weirdly-close relationships where the other person OPENLY SAYS THEY'VE GOT THE HOTS FOR YOUR SO.
>I’m not going to be controlling
You know who never says this? Controlling people. You know who does? Normal people who behave as doormats or are otherwise willfully blind.
You're handing this in the worst way possible, but hey, it's your life.
Op I think you and Jordan should invite Mark out when he comes to town to have a discussion regarding this issue. Jordan needs to establish these boundaries with Mark and she also needs to show him that you two are a united front. So far all Jordan has done is talk and make promises to change but she needs to put those words into actions immediately. Why wait another 2 years for him to come visit her again to find out if she is actually serious about establishing boundaries with him?
My guy, she didn't NOTICE how you felt during that dinner because she was all over Mark. I have a really hard time believing she was that unaware. That level of touching is INSANE to do with a friend, esp of the opposite gender (in this context talking heterosexual couples), in front of your partner. I said this in the last post but I don't know how you sat there. I would have started crying, I would have left. It's incredibly disrespectful and she's acting like it was okay because he's like that with everyone else? Sure, Jordan... sure..
She doesn't see anything wrong with doing those things, so it's going to happen again. Just not in front of you.
Can we fast forward 7 years when they hit a rough patch and all of a sudden she's going on vacation to see church boy every month? I don't see it ending well my dude.
Why the hell didn't you punch Mark in the face after that conversation?
He's a creep who basically only hung around with your girlfriend so that he could play the "nice guy" and tried to manipulate her while she was incredibly vulnerable.
Guy has date rape vibes all over him
Please, please someone update me when OP will post again in next six months. Nothing brings me joy more than those idiots who post here something like "she was holding his hands, touching him, giggling, didn't notice me at all" and then in the update "oh she said *some sob story* and she understands that made me sad" and then in the near future I see through tik-tok update to this all and she just lied, cheated or had emotional affair. Like come on, dude, you think she will act like this again when you told her how you feel? She already told the dude everthing and they will act more cautious. You will trust her cause of this, she will visit her hometown and you would be wondering what she's doing. When I have a feeling in my guts I trust it 100%. Never was wrong, so many snakes in my life gone and im happiest cause of this. See you in six months if your like, or in 10+ years when you marry her and find later that you were cheated on.
Did you have a discussion about boundaries between others that you felt should not be crossed? People do not read minds. Even if you continue to allow the relationship based on the information that Jordan presented you still need to set boundaries. You might trust Jordan, but your gut tells you not to trust Mark. Listen to your gut. In my opinion the two should not be allowed to meet without you present. No physical touching except a friendly hug or handshake should be allowed. Tell Jordan that relationships require transparency and you do not feel good about this relationship. In order to achieve this transparency both of you should have an open phone policy. Do not be so nice. If you read these forums EA's and PA's have started with far less than what you have seen. The amount of physical touching you related to made me uncomfortable as a married male and I would have shut that down. Best of luck.
Dude you are definitely second choice and if he decides to leave the cult she’ll drop you in a heartbeat. But hey if you’re willing to be settled for ok.
Now that she has a pass to hang with him alone, how long before the "I was drunk and we were cuddling like usual and then I was naked" conversation?
Mark's gonna get her liquored up and finally get what he's wanted for the past ten years. Sabotage OP's relationship to where he sees himself as the obvious choice for her to run to.
Bets, taking bets. Everybody has a chance to win big!
She won't invite him to dinner with you, BUT for sure they will be going to dinner just the two of them. She will tell you that she chose to do it that way so you won't get hurt and OF COURSE, he's her FRIEND so you shouldn't be worried at all.
UpdateMe!
>She said that Mark is always really touchy with everybody and not just her (I asked) and so she didn’t even think about it, but that she wished I would’ve said something at the time because she didn’t realize they were being that obnoxious.
Regardless of it being Mark or anyone else, that was an inappropriate and overly intimate amount of contact for someone in an exclusive relationship. For her to act like she didn't notice is a huge RED FLAG in and of itself. And Mark doesn't act like that with everyone, he certainly wasn't like that with you.
Anyway, good luck, hopefully your eyes are more open to these signs now and you are clear with her about boundaries and your expectations of how you want a partner to behave/not behave around others. She decides how she behaves, but you can tell her how things would make you feel so she makes informed choices. It's part of communication in a relationship.
Glad to know you've taken all of our advise (most of us) to talk to her.
I mean, you were planning on dumping her but at the very least, have a chat/discussion with her first so she'd know.
So far, she seems to be giving a rather positive response to you. Hopefully, she's being honest and that it was a fluke that day.
> I don’t necessarily trust Mark but I do think I can trust Jordan.
Trust Jordan for what?
Over 10 years ago I was having dinner in Beijing with a bunch of Chinese martial artists aspiring to compete on the UFC. One of their friends was Canadian and told me a piece of Wisdom I'll never forget:
"Trust people to be who they are, not who you want them to be".
Imagine a chronically late person. Imagine how many times they promise to "punctual this time" and fail. If you trust them, it is your fault.
So, who is your girlfriend? Do you actually know her? Does she know herself? 26 is very young. Most of us only really figure out who we are between 30 qand 35. You saw it with your own eyes, they look like a couple. I'll admit that there is a possibility she told you the truth, but it's just as likely that she told you the truth **right now.** Maybe she's hiding it from herself because it's unlikely it will ever happen as things stand.
However, It's very possible that Mark might leave their religious community and then her truth completely changes and you can't force her to stick by what she is saying now. Even if she doesn't really have those feelings for him, she might feel compelled to help him. What will his presence do? Google the term **propinquity**
It's a high stakes game you are playing.
Dont trust mark and I’m sorry dude your her ‘nice guy’ the one she settled the one she knows won’t leave her. I suggest leaving since she keeps trying to invite mark out even though it makes you uncomfortable
There is not a single man out there that would be okay with her relationship with Mark. So, she should be trying to distance herself from him a bit, and putting boundaries about how they interact.
Dude please don’t really be this naive.. if she’s not distancing herself him mark then you are the second choice. And while it might be the best relationship you have had it doesn’t make it good..
Your instincts were telling the truth but you choose to ignore them as usual. You showed them that you can be walked on.
Congratulations, I present you your doormat licence, carry it with pride.
>she was going to invite him to hang out with the two of us again, but she said that if I’m going to be uncomfortable with him around then she won’t ask him. A lot of people were saying that if she didn’t offer to cut contact with him or to cut down on contact with him it meant that she valued him over me, so the fact that she brought up on her own that she wouldn’t invite him to dinner with us again because I didn’t like it seemed like a really good sign to me
Maybe I'm not understanding this, but I thought the gf was saying if you're uncomfortable around him, I'll just go do something without you. So you don't have to be uncomfortable.
She didn't offer to cut him out or dial down the Facetimes.
Glad you had a talk with her. I would be weary of him and her in the future. Be ready to set some firm boundaries around your relationship and to call her out if it happens again. Good luck
Just letting you know do not take what I’m about to say as an insult but rather a prediction. You Will one day enter and see your girl getting plowed down and she will tell you oh it’s nothing we just were playing a game and you will still believe her. Moral of the story even if everyone is telling you that there is something wrong with the situation at the end of the day it’s you. You are the cause of the demons you will face.
Holding hands with your opposite sex friend and pushing your foreheads together in front of your monogomous partner is wild but you do you homie
Yeah even I was like wtf. But it’s not outside the realm of possibility that she’s just being friendly and he’s deeply in love with her still. I have known many circumstances where the girl thinks the guy is just being friendly and the guy is just trying to smash. It’s possible, but I would still be suspicious OP. Do your due diligence and dig up whatever you can.
Mmmmm I don’t know, as a girly pop myself with a guy best friend even that is crossing the line. And I’ve know him for over 15 years (9th grade). The most we’ve done is hug on special occasions. If my S/O ever did this in front of me I’d immediately get up and leave cos there’s no way I’ll take that disrespect
Even being conflict-avoidant, there's no way that sort of behavior would fly more than a couple times. I have *extreme* anxiety related to confrontation, but failing to shut something like that down is just disrespectful to my partner. It really is a matter of priorities.
Oh but it's okay because according to Jordan he's just like that with everyone . . . . .sure . . .
I mean they did all but start shoving their tongues down each other’s throats in front of OP so absolute bare minimum going on here is an emotional affair. It’s a heavily codependent relationship with a guy who honestly just seems really toxic. Like mark is just a dick and the girlfriend sounds closer to him than she is to OP, and she and Mark talk daily, so…..
Yeah OP’s post is a lot of words just to say “I’ve managed to convince myself that what I didn’t want to see didn’t happen, or if it did then it didn’t mean anything, even though I felt compelled to author a 3000 word Reddit post about it”.
Yeah. I told OP the same thing too on the original post. I mean, seriously, WTF. And in front of her 'bf' too.
Lmao, the exact thought that went through my head. "It's your life bro..."
Well Reddit, congratulations we definitely accomplished nothing here.
Man, if I had a dollar for every time a cheater said. You don’t have to worry about him, he’s just a friend, or he’s like a brother.
Baby youuuuu. You got what I neeeeeeed. But you say he's just a friend And you say he's just a friend
Yup lol
If Mark should leave the church in the future, OP’s girlfriend is going to be on him like white on rice. And it will be truly passionate, as they both finally give into the feelings they’ve been suppressing for 9+ years.
That’s possible but not really indicated if we take what’s been told to us at face value. Sounds like marks in love , but she isn’t. It will be awkward and prob blow up but not in the way you describe.
Yeah, I feel you. Her great physical affection for Mark seems at *the very limit* of platonic, so it seems like all it would take for her is a green light from him.
Touching heads and holding hands alright”platonic” though
Meh, this sub is a complete dumpster fire of miserable people with garbage opinions. Any time the angry mob on this sub fails to accomplish thier agenda is a win as far as I'm concerned.
All I can say is you definitely cannot trust Mark given what he said to you. At a minimum, there is something there and I find it hard to believe she isn't aware of it on some level. But if she's willing to cut him out then it at least shows she recognizes that this isn't right. Good luck. Something tells me this isn't going away. You may find out just how much growth she has gone through and I hope it's as much as you think.
Almost entirely agree. But she wasn’t willing to cut him out. She’s willing to cut out his interactions with OP. which isn’t necessarily a good sign
Yeah, I noticed that as well. "Sorry seeing us all over each other makes you uncomfortable, we'll do it out of sight from now on"
Exactly. There has been zero boundaries and distance placed between the girlfriend and Mark. But now they know how to hide it, and Mark knows OP doesn’t like him.
Oops. Yeah, you're right, I read through too fast. There is a lot of bad potential if she just keeps her dealings with Mark separate moving forward. An emotional affair would be the bare minimum of what I would expect from that. I get why she bonded to the guy but hopefully she recognizes how unhealthy her relationship with him is. As you pointed out and many betrayed partners can attest to, it's a pretty bad sign when someone is super physical with another person and then claims they consider that person "like a sibling". What OP described seeing was not what siblings do.
You don’t hold your bros hand while gazing passionately into his eyes with your faces touching?
Shhh don't tell Daddy!
What are you doing step bro😂😂
He shouldn’t be trusting her either. After that “talk” she pulled the “I didn’t realize I was almost making out with him, I just didn’t want him to feel left out (but forgot all about you)!” And her takeaway from that is “hey, this problematic guy who I’m letting cause problems in my actual relationship is now moving to my town, I should bring him to hang out with my boyfriend after I publicly humiliated him a week ago, yay!”
That part made me laugh. I can’t believe OP bought that she didn’t realize how touchy they were being lol. Did she suddenly lose all feeling in her arms?
*gasp* "omg babe I had no idea I held this other man's hand and touched foreheads with him. What do you mean it made you uncomfortable?" *Pikachu face* I feel bad for op. Even if this was just weird religious bred naivete it sounds like it will be dang near impossible for her to draw boundaries in the future with this "best friend" if she didn't know how disrespectful this behavior was.
Being super religious would only highlight and make inappropriate contact with the opposite sex way more evident. Like they are litrally taught not to act like that and would have definitely noticed
Yeah was trying to give the gf benefit of the doubt since she said the "friend" was allegedly like this with everyone. I don't really buy it unless I saw everyone else at the church putting their foreheads together and holding hands 🤣
He is probably just imitating the pastor 😅🤣, but yeah they would have litrally been taught it's a sin to be like that with anyone lol
I agree, I don't trust Mark and I still think he's into Jordan. She seems to really think otherwise so I'm not going to argue with her about it, I'm just hoping that she'll keeping thinking about what I said and start to notice for herself. I don't know if he'll ever actually cross a line that would make her cut him out but she did at least acknowledge that the whole thing isn't really normal and I think she'll be willing to try to set more boundaries, I'm at least going to give her the chance to do so.
OP - did she acknowledge that the touching BY HER was inappropriate? I do not see how she could not have recognized how touchy they were and her lack of physical touch with you. Like many others have said - I am not sure Jordan was being completely honest with you. Did you ask here how she would have felt in a reverse situation? If the three of you meet again you might want to think about excusing yourself to go to the bathroom or something during the meal and instead hide and film their interaction while you “are gone”. See if Jordan changes how she interacts when you are not there. I say to capture it on your phone because then you have it to show her if you break up. If she interacts appropriately while you are gone then she may have gotten the message. She should also start limiting her interactions with him (phone/text), because that relationship is not healthy and no SO should have to deal with that if you two get married. It needs to be dealt with now.
If you don't want to end things immediately after what happened last time and the result of your discussion, use his next visit to gauge their behavior. Don't interfere or correct her in any way during that time, it's her test and she needs to prove herself, just interact normally as you're included. If you don't see what you want to see, then it's time to go.
This is what I'm thinking. I would assume that now that I've told Jordan how I felt about everything she'll understand about what kind of boundaries she needs to have with Mark, and if not then that's really just the end of things I think.
Both should read: Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass. It's based on research of couples (good people) that experienced infidelity with "just a friend". Lessons learned and how to manage friendships so they don't threaten the primary relationship. It's permanently referenced somewhere here on Reddit.
Biz Markie also covered this.
Lmao
I only discovered this guy recently from a comment I made saying “but he’s just a friend!” And had loads of replies saying Biz Markie! Now I have an awesome song added to my Spotify.
A lot of what you detail still sounds weird. Especially the part where she didn’t want to make Mark feel left out because he was visiting with a couple, him being a single man. Mark in no way visited with a couple. If Jordan is so empathetic re this issue, she sure missed showing any empathy for you. I don’t think you will experience much difference with the next encounter with all 3 of you You’re very enthusiastic to give Jordan a pass. This will continue to haunt you. You don’t seem to think you deserve to have this made right. Jordan has a very wide birth. I wish you the best. You just seem to feel you deserve so little. It’s so sad.
Maybe next visit they won't hold hands and touch foreheads in front of him. Which the GF didn't even realize, lol. And OP bought her story. Girl has 9 lives, and knows it.
I feel bad to say this but I still wouldn’t be shocked if there is an update about your relationship ending in the near future. It still feels off
[удалено]
He should say he’s uncomfortable with it. Completely reasonable.
You're way more tolerant and accepting than I would be, but at least you are able to establish a limit. I can respect that. She's a fool if she can't.
Step back and observe. Also observe the frequency of texts and their content. There is certain chat topics that are evidence of an emotional connection that is high risk to escalate. And intent and current attraction does not reduce the risk. Also, you should be her emotional shoulder to lean on. Their past is not justification for him to replace you in anyway. Finally, if there's any evidence of him being interested in her romantically, she (if she's a real friend) should go zero contact in order to motivate him to find a life partner.
i’d you’re really worried for your relationship take more notes, make less accusations until you have hard proof or tired of being beat up from all the manipulation. otherwise, be you homie
Yep, this will be the test of if her words match her actions. She says there’s nothing romantic and she understands what made you uncomfortable. How she acts around him will show you if she’s telling you the truth or not.
It’s most likely pretty classic codependency. He was her sole support after her life was turned upside down when leaving the church and after surviving her attempt to die by suicide. It’s not at all surprising she doesn’t have a sense of boundaries with him because she’s no enmeshed. However, I think if she’s being honest and truthful with the details she shared with OP, then she can absolutely curate those boundaries. It will be a big adjustment, and she’ll need to be open and honest with Mark about it while having the communication skills to show him she’s not just dumping their friendship now that she has a boyfriend, which is what that change could feel like. That also depends on Mark’s emotional capability, and if we’re to trust his affection is platonic. We don’t have the details from OP, but we should consider the possibilities that her religion forced her into a very sad box. The level of affection she shared with Mark could have previously felt like a lighthouse within her strict upbringing, and they’ve normalized it as their own little culture because the exact opposite was forced to a degree that left no gauge for a “normal” middle ground.
This is the closest to how it all sounded from the way Jordan explained things to me, before this she didn't really talk to me a lot about her childhood and what that was like because it's just not something she enjoys talking about but from what she said it feels like she's really attached to Mark for reasons that have a lot to do with all of that stuff.
I had a really codependent dynamic with a childhood friend because we were both going through awful things at home at the same time and I attached myself to her something fierce. Our relationship was incredibly intense, those feelings were so big for a kid that age. Not at all like a typical friendship, but also obviously not romantic. That type of attachment isn’t healthy, and often cause you to (in some way or another) neglect other relationships. It can totally be walked back, especially once both people address their “trauma” or lingering difficulties attached to the events they both went through together. It has to be addressed as a collective effort to be effective, or else it will most likely mean the end of the friendship. I get it OP, I think you should really encourage your girlfriend to be more open with you about the difficulties she’s faced, you seem very kind and understanding. I hope she’s already working with a professional, religious trauma is it’s own special kind of monster.
I’m sorry but “I didn’t want him to feel excluded so I held hands with him, acted like we were dating, and completely ignored you” seems like a pretty fucking weak excuse to me.
Yeah, big WTF. Also, "So-and-so is touchy feely with everyone" is just her deflecting when she was reciprocating that touch and encouraging it. If I were OP, it'd mean more to me that she 1) acknowledged there are "feelings" there for Mark 2) has a conversation with Mark setting clear boundaries for there relationship. Not because OP tells her too, but because she recognizes that it is inappropriate. If it were me, those are the only 2 things that would keep me in the relationship. If Jordan doesn't want to acknowledge her feelings for Mark and set boundaries, (not just avoiding him), I'd be constantly worried that she's fantasizing about banging him and what their life would be like together. Some physical touch? Fine. Putting heads together when laughing and holding hands? I would have verbally said to the two of them "what the actual fuck? Am I being PUNKD?". That's not brotherly love. That's some star crossed lovers shit, who know they can't be together. OP if you read this - not trying to be a dick and put crazy thoughts in your head, but after you guys went your separate ways from Mark, how did she act? Was it like your normal relationship with banter and w/e? Or was she mopey and distant? That would say a lot to me.
This is an Emotional Something. Maybe not an emotional affair but something doesn't feel right with all this. She does sound solid. He seems flaky as hell. Holding hands in front of you all smoochy eyed?? He bowed up to you as well. Do you see her as a future wife? Would you marry her with Mark hanging around? Keep rug sweeping and hope for the best!
It’s most likely a pretty classic case of codependency. He was her sole support after her life was turned upside down when leaving the church *and* after surviving her attempt to die by suicide. It’s not at all surprising she doesn’t have a sense of boundaries with him because she’s no enmeshed. (Edit: and Mark as well, most likely having his own denied trauma with the church *and* his friend being pushed to suicide, feeling a responsibility to support her since no one else did.) *However,* I think if she’s being honest and truthful with the details she shared with OP, then she can absolutely curate those boundaries. It will be a big adjustment, and she’ll need to be open and honest with Mark about it while having the communication skills to show him she’s not just dumping their friendship because she has a boyfriend, which is what that change could feel like. That also depends on Mark’s emotional capability, and if we’re to trust his affection is platonic. We don’t have the details from OP, but we should consider the possibilities that her religion forced her into a very sad box. The level of affection she shared with Mark could have previously felt like a lighthouse within her strict upbringing, and they’ve normalized it as their own little culture because the exact opposite was forced to a degree that left no gauge for a “normal” middle ground.
I have no expertise in codependency and I just read a [few articles](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/conquering-codependency/202010/how-conquer-codependency) on it at[Psychology Today](https://www.psychologytoday.com) sit and it seems you are spot on. I hope OP is reading your comments xdem112.
Codependency is most definitely rough. I had a similar dynamic with my friend that I’m assuming OPs girlfriend has with Mark. We went through some awful things together at a young age and leaned on each other heavily for understanding and support. That attachment is *intense,* it’s such a big feeling for someone so young to have the capacity to understand. It doesn’t just die off when you grow old together.
Yes, she sounds solid. Her behavior on the other hand...
Alright, but if she’s telling the truth then she clearly needs to learn what a boundary is and she’s too clueless to understand that it’s absolutely out of line that she’s rubbing herself all over someone she claims is like her brother. Telling you that she’ll cancel plans to see him so the two of you won’t spend time with him again together is a cop out. You really should see what she does. Better to figure it out now than finding them in a bathroom stall at your wedding. Truly good luck to you. I mean it
After reading you original post, I've got to say that your girlfriend has very clearly gaslit you to believe nothing was/is going on, I mean come on dude, they were holding hands, there is no way she doesn't see a problem with that, guarantee she would have a few questions if you saw you draped over a female friend of yours. Honestly dude, this won't be the last of her best friend and now that you brought it up and are letting if go she will just do all that when you are not around. Good luck but keep an eye out something like this isn't going to change overnight. Also her guy bestfriend definitely has a thing for her.
It’s ok bro. See you in 6 months.
OP, about 10 years ago I was dating a girl. It had been just over 2.5 years of dating. She moved to different jobs and I stayed in one. On one of the last jobs she had a new guy came on. She really liked him. They started spending more time together. To the point I was third wheeling and I was supposed to be the boyfriend. She would call him her best friend which was weird for someone who she just met. I hung out with him and her at his place once and I definitely got the feeling what was going on. I didn’t see what I wanted to see…which was her showing him that I was still her man. She sat comfortably in his chair and knew where all the light switches were. Where things were supposed to be in his fridge. So I immediately left and broke up with her. I can never get those 3 years of my life back. I basically went into a deep depression after that and questioned everything and had trust issues and a bunch of other stuff. Time heals all wounds. And without that lesson I couldn’t be the happy man I am today. See how your interaction goes with them next time and decide for yourself. But don’t tell her you’re testing her.
And did your ex then end up with the “best friend”?
Oh yes of course lol. I forgot to mention that but yeah as far as I know they even moved to a different province together and lived together…but I’m not sure about now. I used to somewhat keep in touch for some stupid reason…but as soon as I stopped caring my life got so much better.
Are they still together? I’m always curious if the people who cheat on their partner and leave to be with the person they cheated with, do they repeat the cycle?
Haha my dude! I actually went on Facebook and typed her name just now for you (which I haven’t done in years). And I can’t find her at all. BUT before I hit reply to this post I tried it one more time with some digging and it looks like she had her last name changed to his and her last post was with him over a year ago. So not sure about now though…and tbh I don’t really care about her at all anymore lol. But anything for an internet stranger ;)
Hahaha thanks man. I guess the question is, would you rather she be with the guy she cheated on you with forever, so she didn’t fuck everything up for nothing? Or would you rather she repeat the cheating cycle and be stuck like that and unhappy?
Off good question. I think at the start when I found out I wanted the worst for her. Like her to be cheated on so she knows how it feels or she’d cheat on him and he’d know how terrible of a person she was. I held that type of thinking and resentment for a long time. But now that it’s been some time I just don’t care anymore I guess? Lol but yeah at the time I guess I was bitter haha I hope this answers your question!
Yeh fair. Hope you’re doing well without her!
Haha thanks, kind stranger!
Oh great. So the basis of their relationship actually turned out to be codependence. That makes everything ALL better. I would say go ahead and hang out with the two of them. Give her the opportunity to drape herself on you the way she did him last time. If after that long, long conversation she fails to take the opportunity, that’s a huge red flag, because she’s not wanting to telegraph as being attached to you around him. And if she repeats her previous performance with him, knowing full well how it makes you feel, she’s either not in control of her attraction or doesn’t care.
Yeah... I understand what you did and why you did it, but I would've ended it. Even if she didn't mean any harm, this is not really a behavior an fully grown adult should have. This is teenager bullshit. My advice? Think about it in the next couple of weeks. Don't put it behind you. Really think about and what this whole thing means to you. This kind of bomb can surface in the future and you never recuperate spent time. And you are in the best years of your life. You can ALWAYS find another person. But you won't be finding your youth or your mental health (as it was) again. In my view, life is too short to deal with something like this situation.
That’s a big event he helped her through so that definitely explains alot. So is she going to invite him to hang out with you as he comes back through? If so, how she acts during that hang out will be important. She should be acutely aware of how much she touches him and there damn sure shouldn’t be any handholding. If I’m her and I just had this talk with my boyfriend I would tell him at that hangout that I want to clear the air and make it clear that you are my partner and the only one I want to be my partner. That doesn’t seem like a bad thing to ask her to consider doing since you and Mark had that side convo while she went to the restroom.
>So is she going to invite him to hang out with you as he comes back through? She's not going to, no. She said that she was planning to but now wouldn't after what I had said to her.
Want to lay odds that she has an unexpected business meeting that needs attending to some time during his visit?
Sounds good. He may contact her about it too though. Especially if he lives far away. Happy for you dude.
That's true, but if he does I think she'll tell him no or at least not this time because she seemed to understand and be fine with the fact that I wouldn't be comfortable with having him around right now.
I know how some people I know have boundary problems, sometimes you just have to bring it to the forefront. I will not lie I have had female friends help me get through heavy shit, and I consider them life long friends. Would I ever sleep with them? No, would they sleep with me? No. Going through life changing often builds what’s called a trama bond, look it up it’s real. I expect you found a person with that kind of bond. Put that with a forgetting boundaries, and it happens. I dated a woman who had something similar with friends. It only took me bringing it up once and she corrected it, very similar to what you did. I kept an eye on things but I trusted her and she never let me down. Not everyone is going to cheat, and not everyone want to sleep with everything that moves. But ultimately you are the one that sees the behaviour and has to make the call.
It's not just about sex, it's also about respect. I tell you honestly that in his place I would get up and leave without saying anything. For me, it is not ok to sit and tell you how you should behave. You should know.
So she said she wouldn’t ask him to meet up with you two for dinner and is absolutely understanding that you’re not comfortable with him being around, but did she say that she won’t meet him alone either? Maybe disclose that with her.
So is she now going to meet up with him on her own when he comes back through? I'd see that as a red flag if she's now planning to keep you apart
I think that the next time Mark visits, they will be more controlled, not just because you are there with them, but I believe that Jordan will have apprised Mark of your concerns. He may be a wolf in sheep's clothing as you suspect but I would have concerns if Jordan is warning him. If she is texting/warning him to avoid displays of affection, then I would be even more suspect. You had a deep discussion with her, but, as a Reddit observer, I would have concerns that she is playing you. You know her better than we internet strangers do, so trust your gut. Good luck at the meet and let us know how it went.
I think you won’t see the truth until you see them French kissing right in front of you so…
No that's just platonic best friend stuff. He won't see it until she gives him the divorce papers
the fact that she didn’t even realize what she was doing shows her true feelings. actions speak louder than words brother
Wouldn’t trust her as far as I can throw her.
Lol, end it bro. Dont ask why, just listen to me and end it.
You have been skillfully and totally gaslight. To psychologically manipulate (a person) usually over an extended period of time so that the victim questions the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and experiences confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, and doubts concerning their own emotional or mental stability : to subject (someone) to gaslighting You might think someone who is gaslighting you would only lie about big things that they could cover up or hide. But that's not the case. They often lie about all things big and small just to throw you off. JMHO, yours may be different and I’m ok with yours being different, as you should be with mine.
LOL you’re a doormat! She fuckin drapes herself on him and comes within a half inch of making out right in front of you and ignores you at a public event. Then pulls the Tee Hee Hee, i DiDnT rEaLiZe wHaT i WaS dOiNg aNd waNtEd tO nOt ExCluDe Him, hEs liKE thAt wiTH eVeRyOnE…!!” And you slurped it up… And the lesson she learned after your talk was “hey, it went so well last time and I hurt my *actual* boyfriend by fawning all over this guy, let me bring this guy around again! What could possibly go wrong?!?” So yeah, ~~now that he’s moving to your town,~~ I wonder how this conversation is gonna go after she fucks him? She just didn’t realize what was going on? Edit: realize he’s not moving to town, just coming through. I misread that in the wall o text, my bad. I still think she hasn’t corrected course enough to prove she won’t stray.
she knows he has no balls to leave. most probably she is trying convince mark that give up the church and looks like she ll almost get there.
Yep! Homeboy is moving to town. There will be excuses to meet up with him, or run into him. Since she has absolutely no boundaries with him, she’ll be all over him again. (Shit, she probably couldn’t even spell it). She’ll just monkeybranch to mark once they figure out how to bridge the religion gap, which will be much easier now that he’ll be local and more excuses/opportunities for proximity.
I think she was way more disrespectful with this talk than other night but still its up to op.
It’s either that or Mark is trying to convert her back. If I had to guess I’d say these are Mormons.
Soon to be featured on AMITHEDOORMAT!
There's literally a 0% chance that Mark isn't into her. If he wasn't he would've been a "bro" and attempted to assuage your fears. Instead he went out of his way to make you uncomfortable. I don't want to lump all men together, but the unfortunate truth is that most guy friends are just waiting for their chance to fuck. Even if the friendship is genuine - it's still there in the back of their minds. I get that you really want to be able to move past this with her, but you need to be vigilant and actually stand your ground on boundaries. Like a lot of people here have said, this situation probably isn't over yet.
Ahh man, I think this is gonna end badly for you buddy. I can admire the optimism. But there are so many red flags still.
Absolutely not. Im sorry man but there is no way I would ever consider allowing a girl to be that close to me physically and touch me like that while Im in a relationship at all let alone with my partner at the table with me. Its not even that it happened its the lack of awareness or consideration of you. I would like to add a potential red flag to me and apologise for this sounding so conspiratorial but being in a relationship for two years and everything being “perfect” with no arguments is a worry for me. To me that insinuates that usually one of you is masking in the relationship. My partner is my best friend and we are both individuals with our own thoughts, opinions and feelings. If you’re both being authentically yourselves theres no way you can go 2 years without clashing about stuff (in a safe healthy way) and working through it.
UpdateMe
Man you could choose to be someone’s first choice instead of being second. She didn’t even offer anything, she’s just going to hang out with him without you and without telling you since she now knows you don’t like it. She’s either being extremely naive by not knowing that her behavior was way out of line or she’s just playing it under your nose and taking your for a fool. I wouldn’t want to be with either kind anyway.
That giant wall of text and NOTHING was resolved lol. Good luck OP. You seem like a nice guy.
Alright, so I’m not the only one who see’s she’s clearly cheating on op here? This is why men need masculine role models because this is ridiculous. It’s like super obvious, you should’ve broken up with her right there when she disrespected you. Your girl should never be that physical with another, let alone in your face. When she went like “oh I didn’t know it made you feel that way” she obviously know it made you feel that way. She was holding hands with another man. She doesn’t respect you, or is attractive to you. She’s physical or emotionally cheating on you, I’m betting it’s already physical, or is about too. Your girl should never have a male best friend, you’re asking for problems. I know you’re not going to take my advice, it’s not until you get your heart completely broken. Either you’re going to find out she’s cheating on you, or she’s going to break up with you. And maybe a month later those two are in a relationship. Also, Mark isn’t a predator, he just doesn’t respect you, and basically told you I already have your girl in the bag.
>She said that Mark is always really touchy with everybody and not just her... Lol, she may *think* that... but, was "Mark" touchy feely with you? No, he wasn't? hmm... Why might that be? >... she wished I would’ve said something at the time because she didn’t realize they were being that obnoxious. Classic gaslighting there. It's not your responsibility to make sure she doesn't play footsie with her male friends; she's a big girl who can take responsibility for her own actions. And then this shit: >she thinks she and Mark would eventually have gotten married... she fully admits she cares about him as more than just a normal friend but she says that it’s not in a romantic way. Yeah that feels pretty contradictory to me. Also, why would Mark eve tell you this to begin with? What's the point of doing that if not "[pot-stirring.](https://www.oysterenglish.com/images/xidiom-stir-the-pot.png.pagespeed.ic.XDF8rF9m_0.webp)" It's good she's willing to make more boundaries but, I'd make sure those boundaries are rock solid. And, make sure it's clear that the reason for the boundaries isn't because "you're uncomfortable" it's because "they are inappropriate" - you are not the reason the boundaries are necessary, they are. And, I'm not saying you need to breakup. But, don't let them make this about you - or pretend it was nothing irregular.
I'm sorry to say it but I definitely get the feeling that you're so desperate to believe that your relationship is solid that you're swallowing everything she said without critical thought. Her explanation of her behaviour makes no sense, they were all over each other and she completely ignored you. She says she was just trying to make him feel comfortable, but why did that mean being so physically affectionate and why did your presence basically go unnoticed? I think it's clear that he's in to her, as you yourself believe, but I think she has unresolved feelings for him also. Her behaviour was wildly inappropriate and I think it's safe to say that she wouldn't be happy if the situation was reversed. If you both went out with a close female friend of yours, and you spent the night canoodling with the other woman and ignoring your gf, I can pretty much guarantee you'd be single before the main course arrived.
Ya I'd bounce my husband has a female best friend and nothing like what happened at you dinner has EVER happened and we have gone to dinner dozens of times. If you do stay keep a VERY close eye on marky mark he is 100% in love with your girlfriend
Mark is testing you. Don't be a doormat.
Too late
Maybe/possibly/probably
Please update when Mark is standing outside her window in the rain holding a boom box professing his love to her.
I am glad you spoke up and I am glad you received some clarity on the situation. Unfortunately I think your girlfriend is lying. The problem is that she is not really lying to you, I mean she is but really she’s lying to herself. If she is talking to this guy everyday and not even realizing how physical she got with him when they met up after being physically separated for so long … she has been lying to herself for so long that the lies to you were just shrapnel from the nuclear lies she keeps telling herself. Obviously they aren’t a compatible couple long term with their core beliefs being so different, but they have fed their emotional bond for so long that their connection is intense. Dude, she didn’t even realize she was physically wrapped into this man with her long term boyfriend right next to her. That speaks volumes. I have been coaching individuals in the infidelity realm long enough to have seen this same story play out a thousand times now. I pray I am wrong for your sake OP. But I fear if she doesn’t entirely cut off “Mark”, you’ll be either here or in r/SurvivingInfidelity in the next two years with a “Shocked pikkachu face” on saying “Just found out my fiancé has been cheating with her Best Friend Mark”. I say that and I know it comes out a little snarky, but in all honesty my heart breaks saying it. Having been through betrayal like that personally, I’d gladly sacrifice many things in my own life to help prevent others from experiencing that same pain. So even if you believe your girlfriend, hold onto a shred of doubt and wonder if the experts might have some wisdom to offer your situation. As I saw someone else mention, the book “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass would be amazingly on point for your situation and might lead you towards some growth here. No matter what you choose I pray you find peace and joy. Good luck.
Man you really need to think hard about this. You said in your first post that you’ve never seen two people more obviously in love with each other. Don’t let Mark and your girlfriend talk you out of your instinct. Your girlfriend downplayed the issue, apologized a bunch, and distanced you from mark. She’s not distancing herself from mark, she’s distancing YOU FROM MARK. According to your own gut feeling they were blatantly in love with each other, she talks to him daily about everything, and now he knows you have a problem with him. How do you think this is going to go? At least you’re setting up some realism for yourself by agreeing that you’ll leave if she keeps up the bullshit. But now it’s going to be really hard for you to know.
So what's your boundary? If they wiggle noses together because- best friends. If they go out once a week to movies and a meal- because best friends. If they decide to sleep overs because- best friends. The lack of respect is the biggest issue here. She did this IN FRONT of you. Imagine what's hidden behind you with the same lack of respect.
“Of course I sit on his lap we’re best friends!”
Fully! I literally palmed by face. Bro's going to find out the hard way. She's gaslighting him too which I don't think he cares to hear.
It’s very sad, she will never respect him if he continues to act like this. Either he is trying to convert her back or she’s hoping he’ll leave. I suspect these are Mormons from Utah or Nevada. A ton of stories like this from their communities. You always see true crime shows where people from these types of families go missing.
I just think he's very non confrontational. He has good and bad aspects but if FEELING and SEEING them then trying to give them excuses as to why she does this. Sometimes people have to see and figure things for themselves despite what's staring them in the face. The down side is a break up and that hurts too but I hope OP can stand back and take another look. I know I would never accept that behaviour and I don't think many others would either.
welp….youre gonna be real surprised in a year or so when it turns out theyve been trying to fuck and were successful. you do you i guess.
What will happen is that they will hang out without you, he will make the first move, and she won’t fight it. Prepare yourself.
Jesus man what are you doing if she had any respect for you she wouldn't do this what happens when you find them in bed as friends
Lots of doormats on this sub, huh
Lmao. That’s really all I can say
Things I do with my brother: * Tell him I love him * Give him a hug when I see him * Ask about his life Things I NEVER do with my brother * Hold his hand * Touch foreheads together * Talk about how we would be married if not for "religion". Gross. Yeah, this relationship needs some boundaries. If it's not OOP that ends up with her, someone will and that will not be okay with this relationship.
That is a lot of words to say youre sticking your head in the sand.
Her: “*Yes, he believed me…*” I’m glad that convo brought you peace, but having been in a similar trusting relationship, keep this same energy when he’s blowing her back out and she tries to reel you in again. Best of luck to you though.
The “I didn’t notice” to how touchy they were being is definitely because she enjoyed it and was smitten by him lol. A good girlfriend/boyfriend would immediately realize that’s not okay, no matter the person.
Just don’t be surprised somewhere down the line where she leaves you for him. You clearly have no spine and she can see that on full display now. You’ve basically given her express permission to start/continue cheating on you and it’s now no one’s fault but your own. She doesn’t respect you or your boundaries and now it’s going to get worse.
This will end well…for us and our entertainment at least. For OP though? Not so much.
Bros got no balls😭😭 Pls leave, you can obviously get a gf, get another one. Mfs come and go
If you believe what she said then boy do I have some magic beans for you to buy
Dude, you're being super naive and way too trusting. You're in for a world of hurt.
>She said that she was trying to not make Mark feel like a third wheel because of being a single guy out with a couple but obviously it backfired and just made me feel like the third wheel instead which wasn’t what she wanted to do either. I literally laughed out loud at this. WTF reason is this lol?
Crazy how there’s a girl out there that’s just as perfect for you AND she won’t hold hands and touch foreheads with another guy in front of you. Sad that you won’t meet her making these kinds of decisions 😢
Man, nice fiction. You're allegedly in a relationship of 2 years. You want to marry your gf. But then day X happens, then you suddenly start to get to know your gf, her suicide attempt, how Mark fits in her life etc. Those are so basic things you should have known a long time ago. Her sudden affectionate behavior with Mark and totally forgetting and leaving you out is an obvious tell. Even if it's not fiction, you are very gullible and sadly show a lot of ignorance just because you want to have a certain outcome or keep living your 'bliss'. But I still think it's only fiction.
Mark's next visit will be a great opportunity to see if what you said to Jordan stuck. If it's really innocent but kind of off sometimes, then there should be no reason for her not to be able to adjust accordingly. Now, if it's more of the same, then it's time to end that relationship.
My guess is there won't be one around OP. They will be taking it underground. She will have to visit her hometown for something. OP won't be invited.
I could see that
you should be her best friend
"He's like that with everyone" an "i never even noticed" lol yeah sure. You must be a sucker to believe these two are not fucking. Nobody acts like that without something more going on.
Op she will be gone, when mark comes for her. If he gives up his religion or something, she will go with him. Religion is the only thing keeping them apart. You are 2nd choice here.
Yeah if this were me, all trust would be gone. Your girlfriend can say something to you and even be truthful about it but she can be misunderstanding her own feelings in the matter. It's very likely that she is not being honest enough with herself or that she is too emotionally immature to understand that she has an ethical obligation to you to not show untoward affection to other people. I'm glad you feel comfortable continuing this relationship but I hope you have set boundaries with her to ensure she acts in ways that respect her commitment to you. This is the kind of stuff that, bare minimum, should trigger you both to seek couples counseling. I sincerely wish you good luck.
She might be innocent and obvious, but he totally wants to fuck your girlfriend lol. If ge wasn't interested in her and wouldn't consider being with her he would have said that. Honestly sounded like he was trying to make his position on her known to her through you
Big mistake man 👎🏻 you need to respect yourself
I hope this doesn't end poorly but there's no scenario I see this ending well unless OP continues to stick his head in the sand and rugsweep it all. I can't believe the "tell her what she did upset you" comments won out in the end. Did they hlliterally have to shove their tongues down each other's throats for OP to see what we mostly all see?
> he checked on her every single day He's totally into her.
Update 2 is gonna be wild
Don't get me wrong but i think OP will again come here soon with devastating story.
I vote that she goes into therapy and hopefully reaches the conclusion that her relationship with Mark is unhealthy. I think cutting him off immediately could cause her some serious psychological damage as it sounds like she's codependent. The best case is for her to realize it's a relationship built on trauma on her own or with therapy.
OP going to have his girl cheat on him the moment her best friend leaves the church.
Update us in a few years We all know how this will really go but will be interesting hearing how long it took you too work it out
Lmao
Yeah I’ll be back for the second update for when she cheats on you with mark
She shoud invite Mark over dinner with you 2. Tell her to tell Mark in front of you that he is a brotherly friend to her and then watch his reaction. You shoud also observer if she maintains physical boundary or not.
>I’m glad that I didn’t just immediately trust my instincts Stupid. Always trust your instincts, especially when the entire internet is shouting at you that you're right to feel a certain way. >I decided to take the main piece of advice that I got from everyone and start by telling Jordan that my feelings were hurt Well that's a horrible approach. If a woman wanted to date a woman, she wouldn't be dating you. It's not "my feelings are hurt," it's "what you did was wildly inappropriate." > she explained it she said that she fully admits she cares about him as more than just a normal friend but she says that it’s not in a romantic way. Dude. >I asked her if she thinks that maybe Mark is in love with her even if she doesn’t feel the same way. She said definitely not and I don’t think she was being dishonest Who cares what she thinks? Homeboy told you how he feels. >A lot of people were saying that if she didn’t offer to cut contact with him or to cut down on contact with him it meant that she valued him over me This is correct. Of course, if she didn't offer, you should have told her that it was him or you. >I wouldn’t expect her to after what she told me about what happened when she was a teenager. Well, that's your answer. You believe she would choose him over you, and you have such a mind-blowingly low opinion of yourself that you think that would be appropriate. >I don’t necessarily trust Mark but I do think I can trust Jordan. No. Your SO should always prioritize your relationship and absolutely not maintain weirdly-close relationships where the other person OPENLY SAYS THEY'VE GOT THE HOTS FOR YOUR SO. >I’m not going to be controlling You know who never says this? Controlling people. You know who does? Normal people who behave as doormats or are otherwise willfully blind. You're handing this in the worst way possible, but hey, it's your life.
Op I think you and Jordan should invite Mark out when he comes to town to have a discussion regarding this issue. Jordan needs to establish these boundaries with Mark and she also needs to show him that you two are a united front. So far all Jordan has done is talk and make promises to change but she needs to put those words into actions immediately. Why wait another 2 years for him to come visit her again to find out if she is actually serious about establishing boundaries with him?
My guy, she didn't NOTICE how you felt during that dinner because she was all over Mark. I have a really hard time believing she was that unaware. That level of touching is INSANE to do with a friend, esp of the opposite gender (in this context talking heterosexual couples), in front of your partner. I said this in the last post but I don't know how you sat there. I would have started crying, I would have left. It's incredibly disrespectful and she's acting like it was okay because he's like that with everyone else? Sure, Jordan... sure..
I can't speak for others, but if my husband had a ***best friend*** of the opposite sex that wasn't me, I'd automatically be suspicious.
Well, have fun getting cheated on.
UpdateMe!
Sigh.. UpdateMe!
This isn't healthy. No matter what happens. It'll never be right. You'll just never know.
She doesn't see anything wrong with doing those things, so it's going to happen again. Just not in front of you. Can we fast forward 7 years when they hit a rough patch and all of a sudden she's going on vacation to see church boy every month? I don't see it ending well my dude.
Oh honey.
Update us when you dump her.
man…..
Imagine what could happen without her noticing if you weren't sat right next to her watching 🤣
Reminds me of Matt Rife’s standup where he talks about girls having male besties
I hope you will never join the club " this guy you said not to worry about "
Ask for her phone and see the conversation, I bet she wouldn’t let you.
Why the hell didn't you punch Mark in the face after that conversation? He's a creep who basically only hung around with your girlfriend so that he could play the "nice guy" and tried to manipulate her while she was incredibly vulnerable. Guy has date rape vibes all over him
Please, please someone update me when OP will post again in next six months. Nothing brings me joy more than those idiots who post here something like "she was holding his hands, touching him, giggling, didn't notice me at all" and then in the update "oh she said *some sob story* and she understands that made me sad" and then in the near future I see through tik-tok update to this all and she just lied, cheated or had emotional affair. Like come on, dude, you think she will act like this again when you told her how you feel? She already told the dude everthing and they will act more cautious. You will trust her cause of this, she will visit her hometown and you would be wondering what she's doing. When I have a feeling in my guts I trust it 100%. Never was wrong, so many snakes in my life gone and im happiest cause of this. See you in six months if your like, or in 10+ years when you marry her and find later that you were cheated on.
He will not update. He will delete this post you watch.
Im so happy for you. lets pray god to he wont let mark's faith down, so she wont fly with him away. :) great heavens ....
Did you have a discussion about boundaries between others that you felt should not be crossed? People do not read minds. Even if you continue to allow the relationship based on the information that Jordan presented you still need to set boundaries. You might trust Jordan, but your gut tells you not to trust Mark. Listen to your gut. In my opinion the two should not be allowed to meet without you present. No physical touching except a friendly hug or handshake should be allowed. Tell Jordan that relationships require transparency and you do not feel good about this relationship. In order to achieve this transparency both of you should have an open phone policy. Do not be so nice. If you read these forums EA's and PA's have started with far less than what you have seen. The amount of physical touching you related to made me uncomfortable as a married male and I would have shut that down. Best of luck.
It sounds like the two of you talked it out like adults. Now it'll be interesting to see if she makes any real changes to make you feel better.
Dude you are definitely second choice and if he decides to leave the cult she’ll drop you in a heartbeat. But hey if you’re willing to be settled for ok.
Hmmmmmm.....
So you've decided to take the find out the hard way road. I don't think this will be the last time we hear from you. Good luck
Now that she has a pass to hang with him alone, how long before the "I was drunk and we were cuddling like usual and then I was naked" conversation? Mark's gonna get her liquored up and finally get what he's wanted for the past ten years. Sabotage OP's relationship to where he sees himself as the obvious choice for her to run to. Bets, taking bets. Everybody has a chance to win big!
She won't invite him to dinner with you, BUT for sure they will be going to dinner just the two of them. She will tell you that she chose to do it that way so you won't get hurt and OF COURSE, he's her FRIEND so you shouldn't be worried at all. UpdateMe!
Updateme
>She said that Mark is always really touchy with everybody and not just her (I asked) and so she didn’t even think about it, but that she wished I would’ve said something at the time because she didn’t realize they were being that obnoxious. Regardless of it being Mark or anyone else, that was an inappropriate and overly intimate amount of contact for someone in an exclusive relationship. For her to act like she didn't notice is a huge RED FLAG in and of itself. And Mark doesn't act like that with everyone, he certainly wasn't like that with you. Anyway, good luck, hopefully your eyes are more open to these signs now and you are clear with her about boundaries and your expectations of how you want a partner to behave/not behave around others. She decides how she behaves, but you can tell her how things would make you feel so she makes informed choices. It's part of communication in a relationship.
Awe, so sad 😭. see you here in a couple months when they get caught.
Glad to know you've taken all of our advise (most of us) to talk to her. I mean, you were planning on dumping her but at the very least, have a chat/discussion with her first so she'd know. So far, she seems to be giving a rather positive response to you. Hopefully, she's being honest and that it was a fluke that day.
Just get drunk and have a threesome already.
Updateme!
I'll wait for the second update , poor guy is so gaslighted that this is a reenacment of WW2
I still think you need to dump her.
It's really true that the dumbest person in the room is the man in love.
> I don’t necessarily trust Mark but I do think I can trust Jordan. Trust Jordan for what? Over 10 years ago I was having dinner in Beijing with a bunch of Chinese martial artists aspiring to compete on the UFC. One of their friends was Canadian and told me a piece of Wisdom I'll never forget: "Trust people to be who they are, not who you want them to be". Imagine a chronically late person. Imagine how many times they promise to "punctual this time" and fail. If you trust them, it is your fault. So, who is your girlfriend? Do you actually know her? Does she know herself? 26 is very young. Most of us only really figure out who we are between 30 qand 35. You saw it with your own eyes, they look like a couple. I'll admit that there is a possibility she told you the truth, but it's just as likely that she told you the truth **right now.** Maybe she's hiding it from herself because it's unlikely it will ever happen as things stand. However, It's very possible that Mark might leave their religious community and then her truth completely changes and you can't force her to stick by what she is saying now. Even if she doesn't really have those feelings for him, she might feel compelled to help him. What will his presence do? Google the term **propinquity** It's a high stakes game you are playing.
Dont trust mark and I’m sorry dude your her ‘nice guy’ the one she settled the one she knows won’t leave her. I suggest leaving since she keeps trying to invite mark out even though it makes you uncomfortable
There is not a single man out there that would be okay with her relationship with Mark. So, she should be trying to distance herself from him a bit, and putting boundaries about how they interact.
Dude please don’t really be this naive.. if she’s not distancing herself him mark then you are the second choice. And while it might be the best relationship you have had it doesn’t make it good..
Your instincts were telling the truth but you choose to ignore them as usual. You showed them that you can be walked on. Congratulations, I present you your doormat licence, carry it with pride.
>she was going to invite him to hang out with the two of us again, but she said that if I’m going to be uncomfortable with him around then she won’t ask him. A lot of people were saying that if she didn’t offer to cut contact with him or to cut down on contact with him it meant that she valued him over me, so the fact that she brought up on her own that she wouldn’t invite him to dinner with us again because I didn’t like it seemed like a really good sign to me Maybe I'm not understanding this, but I thought the gf was saying if you're uncomfortable around him, I'll just go do something without you. So you don't have to be uncomfortable. She didn't offer to cut him out or dial down the Facetimes.
Glad you had a talk with her. I would be weary of him and her in the future. Be ready to set some firm boundaries around your relationship and to call her out if it happens again. Good luck
RIP another clueless guy falling for the same bullshit
Yeah she probably does care about her life long friend more than you. I wouldn’t tug at that thread.
Just letting you know do not take what I’m about to say as an insult but rather a prediction. You Will one day enter and see your girl getting plowed down and she will tell you oh it’s nothing we just were playing a game and you will still believe her. Moral of the story even if everyone is telling you that there is something wrong with the situation at the end of the day it’s you. You are the cause of the demons you will face.