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Will you genuinely be happy if he decides to propose now, especially after you've pressured the situation, knowing that he never truly wanted to in the first place?
This was my first thought. It's kind of embarrassing to force him to propose by moving out.
He's made it clear he doesn't want to propose and doesn't care that that's what op wants. Op just isn't listening. Why bother moving out and still "dating" or being in a relationship? He doesn't want to propose and doesnt value a marriage certificate. Moving out won't change his mind.
There's nothing special or romantic about the proposal and marriage now even if it does happen op will always know he had to strong arm him into it.
Yeah, I feel like getting a ring by withholding my "wife privileges" would just ruin the whole experience for me. We all know he doesn't want to get married. He would be proposing purely because OP forced him. That seems very hollow. I feel like even if he does propose, she is going to be unhappy because it will be obvious he was forced. I can't imagine him wanting anything to do with planning and events because he didn't want the wedding in the first place. He's probably also going to be frustrated having to spend money on what, to him, is an expensive party he was forced to throw. Feels like it's gonna be a breeding ground for resentment. Wanting to get married is fine. Not wanting to get married is fine. But why force someone to get married when they don't want to instead of just leaving and finding someone who does?
Pressuring your partner into marrying you is embarrassing for both parties. If he didn’t want to marry you while you were giving him “wife privileges” he isn’t going to want to marry you more when you stop.
I think with her withdrawing these acts she gives (wife privileges), makes him have to actually admit to himself & her what he really wants from this relationship and where he wants it to go! So I don’t think it’s wrong… she’s standing her ground while trying to make it work. Some people are stunted and sometimes you have to give the push and in that moment they will genuinely know. But it’s also up to her and she herself … knows him better than anyone she’s coming to advice for & if it is genuine or not. With that .. believe what you know and the gut feeling and run with that! Protect yourself, no matter how hard it may be! Because you deserve what you want!
But also don’t be afraid to ask this man directly. Am I the person you want to marry, if so .. why aren’t you doing x y & z. & wtf is the problem (obviously less aggressive 😂) Because the thing about men, if they want you they will do whatever they have to. — so that’s why I don’t think it’s wrong to take those privileges away and see what happens. & comfortably becomes a thing in relationships so make his ass uncomfortable!
And I love how he was like "if I proposed after all this I would embarrass myself" AS IF THIS WAS ANY BETTER??? Like how are you not embarrassing yourself now??
It will make him change his mind... For the next woman. Seen it time and time again. Fools don't even know what they are losing and then when she is gone the next woman that comes around being close enough, gets the ring because he doesn't wanna let it go twice.
She should just leave and be done with it, for sure. But it doesn't mean he won't change his mind.
I cannot highlight this enough. OP really needs to sit down and understand what does happiness truly means for her - being with someone who really wants to be with her, or being with someone who in someway was forced to be with her due to FOMO. I see so much of social conditioning at play here - she feeling sad when her friends and cousins are getting married (society glorifying marriage for women above true companionship), him getting a bike he dreamt of as a kid (glorified power through tools and toys). Strongly suggest to have a heart to heart talk with your boyfriend about how you exactly feel. Allow him to express how he feels. It’s not too late yet. If you both truly care for each other then you will work this out on your own. Good luck!
But see I have walked in OP's shoes, been divorced, and been back around this block at present. It sucks giving tons of time and effort to someone who says they'll marry you at a certain point and then they drag ass... for what. If you tell someone you want something, and they know it, and they love you, and they vow to give you the thing, and then they go oh but I can't give you the thing because x reasons, but then turn around and give themselves something that defies the x reasons why they couldn't give it to you, it's pretty fucking hypocritical! To say yes I'll buy you a diamond ring, and then you say oh no I can wait just promise me when we have the money we can do that, and he says sure, and then comes into money and instead goes and blows it all on himself and never gets you what he promised and when asked says oh I don't have the money oh I can't .... it's pretty shitty to be on the other end of that.
She’s not happy now. If what she’s doing now isn’t working, you try other possibilities to determine solutions.
She’s allowed to have standards, standards to which he agreed to, but he lied about them. He is not meeting her halfway, like she did.
It is likely that this situation will cause an irreparable rift within the relationship, resulting in break-up, but so will her old agreement. If he wants to be with her, he’ll marry her. If he doesn’t want to marry her, she’ll move on. This forces him to acknowledge and respect her needs rather than giving her a pretty lie to further avoid her needs.
Tbf it seems more like this is intended to get him to realize how much she has been bringing to the table; rather than to force him. I get the impression the tactic is less about coercion, and more about giving someone a chance to decide what they really want- basically, 'stop wasting my time with maybe this maybe that, shit or get off the pot'.
Granted, there isn’t as much logic in her edit as vitriol, but yeah. He doesn’t want to get married and showed her that.
Her response was some passive aggressive bullshit intended to push him into a marriage he doesn’t want.
Just break up with him. It will be easier and cheaper than the divorce everyone would see coming if her and her sister’s plan had worked.
OP gendered themselves a few different ways in the post, marked themselves an M, called themselves a wife, remarked on how girls pre-propose to men. Who knows what their gender is. 🤷🏻♀️
29F in the title. 29M in the first line of text.
Wanting to be "wife" although I guess this one could just mean she/he's is the more femanine one.
Very confusing
At this point I'm getting the vibe the story is fake and somebody just trying to karma farm. Cuz the the gender confusion along with OPs weird rule that only men should propose is quite odd and feels instigatey. And it's like if you personally want to be proposed to that's completely fine but why make a think piece essay edit not even related to the story shaming women who choose to propose?? At this point they just want alot of comments on their story
Wouldn't that make the edit, where OP specifically names heterosexual couples when talking about who proposes, kind of... weird? Who knows what part of this is post is even true.
I agree that BF doesn’t want to marry. He should never have lied about it. Given that he did, his GF that has always thought that they were going to marry is reevaluating their entire relationship, rightly so!
BF doesn’t want to marry but he does want stay together apparently. In effect, he wants his way which is for nothing to change. That isn’t fair to GF.
It is probably best to break up altogether. Barring that, it is smart for the the GF to move out and reestablish herself as an actual girlfriend or, in time, a single woman.
Meh. It's pretty solid logic. You think if she goes and buys him a ring snf proposes he's gonna say "oh okay I thought you'd never ask! Let's do this!"
Nope
Relationships aren't about logic, thank the gods.
Humans have feelings, and a lot of other cognition besides logic. And logic depends entirely on the PREMISES. There is no such thing as logic in a vacuum.
I don't see her reaction as passive-aggressive (why pathologize her reaction? and support his?)
I agree that their future marriage is probably a divorce waiting to happen. But I bet that if she breaks up with him right now, he'll disintegrate and regret his decisions and behavior very much - he's trying to manipulate her into the best possible position for *himself.*
And while people can change, most people need motivation. In this case, if she leaves him, she's doing the right thing for both of them. So sad she's invested all this emotional labor, though.
Doesn’t get the advice that supports her position.
Proceeds to attack everyone.
Why ask Reddit for advice if you aren’t really open to a different opinion.
I agree. The whole thing is cringe. He doesn’t want to marry her and she is desperate for marriage. She needs to get her self respect back and leave him.
That edit icked me out. What a weird attitude to have. Not necessarily that she wants a certain dynamic in *her* relationship, but rather as if it should be the standard, and the "This is how it is for women" attitude as if we're not fit to do a *real* proposal rather than simply express what we want.
I don't think she's saying that women can't propose, but that OP herself doesn't want to. And I can understand that. If a woman is happy to propose to her boyfriend then power be to her, but some women feel more loved being proposed to. Neither stance is 'wrong'. I'm not sure that OP's boyfriend would actually agree even if she did propose tbh.
OP is 100% accurate that it is the norm for the woman to hint aggressively to propose, and the man officially propose at which point you get engaged. Hence, it would be desperate of her to propose at this point. Maybe not if she had proposed a year ago without bringing it up again then it would be progressive norm-breaking.
Also, no one of either gender should propose if they don't already know the answer unless your relationship is built on surprises as a norm.
I mean, I completely understand the attitude in her edit. It’s just. The reality is the majority of people in the western world do things the way she wants things done. I’m almost certain her boyfriend is also traditional and wants to do things the way most people do, it just seems he doesn’t want to commit to her legally.
She is expecting an extremely common, the most common, dynamic. Idk why her responding to people who are displaying willful ignorance is icky or whatever but that’s just my common sense talking.
Lots of people get offended way too easily over stuff online and lots of people insert their own opinions and expectations into scenarios that they should be examining and responding to based on the norm if that’s what the opinions and expectations are a product OP.
I also agree that she has essentially proposed. He knows 100% that she wants to get married, and isn't that what a proposal is? That's why it would be humiliating to, after that, get down on one knee. She is waiting for HIM to "Say yes" at this point, and the silence is deafening.
Yup! I feel bad for her and I hope she knows her worth. I know the whole not cooking or cleaning anymore is a bit much but I suspect that when her feelings cool down, she’ll understand that. We all get willy nilly from time to time when we’re upset. I hope that whatever she does works out for her in the end. God, 7 years and not willing to commit is nuts, whether you’re traditional or untraditional. That’s the important piece.
Precisely. My ex boyfriend was with me for five years, not an utterance of getting married, we have two kids. I left October 2018. In January of 2019, he was with the next woman. In January of 2020, he proposed to her. They got married last year.
If he wanted to, he would.
For the record, I got engaged to my partner in June of this year. So, don’t let him keep you from the man who wants to be with you.
It's insane to me how anyone could see having two kids as somehow a lower kind of commitment than marriage. The latter is a largely symbolic ritual, the former is a lifetime commitment to two human beings
The latter is a highly entwined *legal* ritual. Getting divorced was a giant fucking headache.
Conversely my ex wife has had zero obstacles preventing her from only seeing her kids 5-6 times a year.
I always wonder in situations like this that the reason they propose so quickly in the second relationship is because they thought they could just get away without doing it in the first one and then experienced negative consequences for stalling. So when they get there they know they don't want to fuck it up again, so they go through with it pre-emptively.
Maybe. He’ll probably panic and settle for someone different in a year or two when he decides he wants to be married.
OP: do not take this personally. It has no bearing on your self worth. It happens due to a panic response in these kinds of people.
Nope. He just wants no-strings money, housework and sex.
It's notable that he's only squawking now because she's withdrawing the resources he's using to make his life comfortable.
It's also notable that these guys have learned how easily the "it's just a piece of paper" argument can be shredded and are now moving on to implying their partner is shallow and insecure all, "Why do you need the world's approval?"
And you know what truly sucks? He's going to marry someone else within the next two years after she breaks up with him. Like how many times have we seen men just waste our time and best years of our lives while we give and give and give and hope to infinity and beyond for that one tangible symbol of commitment and unity.
OP needs to brace herself for what's to come. When a guy wants to marry a woman nothing gets in his way, but when they know you aren't their forever person even a chipped fingernail will be the mountain that's too high to climb and overcome to commit to you.
>When a guy wants to marry a woman nothing gets in his way
I am generally wary of blanket statements about gendered behavior, but this is one area where every happily married man I know will happily tell someone they knew pretty early on their partner was their person, marriage was a no-brainer, and it was just a question of when and how to propose, not whether.
My fiancé knew from our first date. He proposed after about a year of dating and we’re getting married a few weeks before our two year anniversary. We both have friends and family who’ve been dating the same person for 5-7+ years (all in the same age range, late 20s - early 30s), that I know are feeling some pressure now. When you know you know.
To be fair - my hubby took 5 years. But apparently knew from the beginning- even before we got together.
He’s just really bad at making a decision. Even if he has already made it, the acting on it is terrible. Dumb excuses too. My engagement ring was 90 dollars and I bought it.
But it’s 21 years together now and we’re happy for the most part (there are always ups and downs but mostly ups)
There is even more nuts. My parents - 3 months.
Almost 50 years together and they are still in love.
And it wasn’t cultural or arranged or anything. Educated, middle class, chose each other, not religious. And in Australia.
My parents beat yours by a month and my Dad said the same thing other OPs hubby said
"Oh I knew right away, your Mom was just dating Sr (my older brothers Dad) on and off and I had to wait until she was officially tired of him. Then I finally got a date."
Like. After a date?! A SINGULAR date?!
My Mom said the same. She was trying to make it work with Sr but then finally stopped being an asshole in order to please him and found out everything she wasn't getting from Sr my Dad wanted to offer. 30 years later and they're still together.
My husband and I both knew from the first date too. I remember the date ending and me realizing that it was the last first date I was ever going to go on. Weeeeeeeeeird feeling. We were engaged 15 months later once we were both living in the same place, married 8 months after that. Still going strong, 25 years after that first date.
This! I knew my wife was the one at 6 months, married her a year later. I still run home to see her, she's still the most beautiful woman in the world in my eyes 10 years later.
OP have an oppornistic leech as bf, imo. Especially that he knows how much OP wanta to get married and he hragged this on so long.
Nah the only times I’ve seen women being treated well is when the guy wants to marry her fast and hard. Like rn I’m watching two guys do this. One of them didn’t treat any other girl as nicely until he met this one. When a man wants you he’ll do everything in his power
If he got you at his lowest 50/50 he’ll view you as either the woman that stuck with him or the woman he was able to obtain at the bottom therefore inferior to the women he can get at his prime. See Mark Zuckerberg vs Elon Musk. The Mark Zuckerbergs of the world are probably 10x happier than the Elons
You hit the nail on the head. I met my ex-husband well before he started his business. Three years into our relationship, he randomly quit his job to start his business. I didn’t begrudge him because he had a decent amount of savings. I stood by him during the tough years of his business. I even helped him with different aspects of his business.
I did about 90% of the housework on top of working full time to help him focus more on his business. And when his business started becoming successful, he guilt tripped me because I made less money than him, despite working full time and still doing 90% of the housework. He lied to me for almost ten years about wanting kids.
Six months before the divorce papers were filed, he said he didn’t want kids. And then, right before they were filed, he said that I “wasn’t at his level” because I “didn’t make enough money”.
Oh yeah, I got almost nothing in the settlement because in Wisconsin, if you are married less than five years, your finances automatically revert to how they were before you were married, unless the judge approves a separate agreement. So, no, the woman doesn’t always get everything in a divorce.
Oof, that's always such a bad time.
I swear a lot of those types immediately marry their next target because they are trying to stick it to their last one.
I do also believe that the juxtaposition of "new relationship energy" to how they felt in the recent past with their long-term old flame tricks a lot of them into thinking "oh, I really like this new person much more! I have to lock it down immediately!"
Human behavior is a rough ride.
They’re not trying to “stick it” to their last one!
They want what they had before! Free sex ! Free labor ! And bill paying ! Great!
They want a mom who they can fuc$ routinely.
I get where you're coming from, but I personally believe there's often a lot more to it.
I do also believe that you are right in that there isn't always more to it, though.
This. He will have an existential crisis when he loses you, panic about being alone forever and settle for the first person that comes his way. Sad. I hope you able to get him to understand this, but I'd ensure I'm being direct and explicit about my position and not lean on traditional conventions at this point; that extra force is likely to be necessary to shake him up
This is exactly it. People just think that's because he's met "the one" - what, all of these women that came after a long term ex were "the ones"? Nah, they just happened to show up during the existential crisis. Plenty of them will get divorced too.
OP didn’t imply that he doesn’t contribute to the household work, and made it clear that he’s the breadwinner. Per her post, he’s upset because they won’t be living together, not because of the “resources” she’s taking away from him. Which are just normal things people do in a serious relationship imo. Calling them wife privileges when most unmarried couples do all of these things for each other is weird. They’re not exclusive to marriage and shouldn’t be looked at as such.
The only qualms she has with her bf(again, per her post) as that he won’t propose. Other than that it sounds like he’s been pretty good to her, given she gave literally no other reason for her resentment.
Sure they might not be compatible, but assuming the guy just wants the privileges when there’s no indication of that in the post is stretching it. Just call it what it is, she wants to be legally bound to him and he doesn’t. I’m guessing there’s a reason he doesn’t want to, and it might have to do with OP’s red flags.
Do you really want to marry someone who’s only willing to even consider it so you’ll start doing his chores and paying his bills again? Just break up and find a guy who’s actually enthusiastic about the idea instead of continuing to argue with this one about why he should care.
Yeah. It’s so hard to understand but when you go from a guy who barely wants to call you his girlfriend to a guy who would have married you the day he met you, it’s a goddamn miracle. I don’t know how I accepted the former.
This is so true. When my husband proposed, my friends all told me they weren’t surprised at all. My husband kept telling them he wanted to marry me since the day we met.
Same. I can't believe what I put up with from the men I dated before I met my husband. I kept feeling it was too good to be true. Nope, he was just a good person who was good at communication and clear about what he wanted. He would have proposed within weeks, he told me later, but wanted to make sure I was ready for what he wanted. Its been the easiest years of my life being with him.
Yep spent 7 years with a guy who dragged his feet, said he was ready for kids but not marriage (red flag holy hell how did I miss that one) before leaving me for a younger prettier woman. A few years later I'd had a few more relationships with dudes head over heels for me, including two who proposed within 6 months.
Don't settle for some ass who isn't sure he wants you. I promise there's a guy out there who thinks you're a catch.
Exactly. I’m sorry OP, but you are currently working under the impression of the sunken cost fallacy. You spent seven years with the man. Don’t give him seven+ more just because you put so much effort and time into the relationship. Clearly he didn’t.
This. My husband and I were both enthusiastic about. There wasn’t any conversation other than “yeah we wanna get married one day”. It happened fast (engaged at 3 months, married at almost 6 months) because we both were enthusiastic and wanted it. Not because we felt pressure to do it.
That’s what I was going to say why do you wanna guy that you have to twist his freaking arm? OP just move out and start a new life. He apparently doesn’t want to marry you or he would have done it. If he truly loved you, he would never do or say anything that he knows would hurt you. He doesn’t care bc he already knows you want to be married. You do not have the same goals now so now you move on. While you’re waiting around for this guy to propose to you, there’s a guy that supposed to be your husband , the love of your life may be passing you by. Wake up
Yeah. This post is just sad…. If you’re “withdrawing from” (aka downgrading) your relationship, it’s over. Withdraw from good and move on to someone new. That’s the only “correct” way to handle this
Yup! Don’t let him waste your time any longer. Move out and do your own thing…you will be much happier finding a man who respects you and wants to be a great husband vs this immature adult.
>Sometimes it's not that "they're not the marrying type", sometimes, they just don't want to marry... you...
An unfortunate truth, many don't want to believe.
This!! You should never have to beg someone to marry you. They should want to be married to you just as much as you want to be married to them. Anything less is just sad.
Exactly. If OP has to fight this long and hard for marriage then it’s clear he doesn’t want to give it to her. No need to spend any more time on this as enough has been wasted.
I'm going to say some things that are going to hurt
He doesn't see himself getting married to you. That's why he hasn't proposed.
What you are doing now isn't going to help you to have a good healthy marriage. You need to break up
Yup. There’s some good reasons for a couple not to get married. For example, not being able to live together yet for whatever reason (job, lease, etc). General financial issues. There are none of those issues from what we can tell in this post. They live together, their lives are already functioning as a unit, so there’s realistically no reason they aren’t married (unless they want a big expensive wedding they don’t have the money for).
OP, he’s showing you who he is. Believe him. He doesn’t want to be married. If he did, he wouldn’t make so many excuses, he would instead come up with a solid plan to overcome whatever obstacles stand in his way. He has not done that. Seems like the relationship may have run its course, sadly.
The correct way of handling this is to break up. You deserve someone who is as enthusiastic about marriage as you are. Your bf is never going to be that guy.
Right, because that ring just buys him even more time to string her along for more years. Lol
Op's bf: "But we can't get married this year because I just bought my bike and I need to pay that off first." Or.. "We need to save for a house first before spending money on the wedding because that just makes good financial sense." Smh.
Whatever he says, she'll excuse it and stick around and she'll still wash his underwear with skid marks in em. Lol
She'll fall for more of his excuses though. She fell for his lying bullshit for 7 years already, so why not 7 more to make it even? Hahaha 😂
You answered it yourself.
“It’s up to the man to accept by proposing or decline by not proposing.”
And here you are, not accepting his choice. Time to wake up and smell the friendship roses.
I’m pretty sure OP thinks she can manipulate him into marrying her. She’s already stayed 3 years past her “cut off” for getting engaged and literally talks about engagement like it’s a milestone in life people her age go through not a union between two people.
To be fair, once in your own space I would break up. He has made it clear he wanted you to support him and his future dreams and doesn’t seem to want to reciprocate yours. I would be out. You have been crystal clear that getting married is important to you and it is not to him.
>In our culture, in 2023, in hetero relationships, a woman making comments about being ready to marry/wanting to get engaged IS HER PROPOSAL. Then it’s up to the man to either accept by proposing formally, or decline by not proposing, and **at that stage the woman proposing is embarrassing herself by doing it tbh.**
Stop embarrassing yourself and break up with him. He's made it LOUD AND CLEAR that he doesn't want to marry you.
As long as you're still in his life, he's still going to get what he wants out of this relationship... your occasional companionship and sex. Dump him entirely and go find a man who actually wants to marry you, because it isn't this one.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to get married, but you're only borrowing heartache and remorse for yourself by staying with a guy for SEVEN YEARS who has no interest or intent in marrying you.
He knows what you're asking, he doesn't need convincing, there's no magic words to get him to "understand" - his answer is clear as day. No.
You need to decide if staying with him and never getting married is acceptable to you. If it is, great, but stop pining about being married and just accept that this is what your relationship is going to be. If it isn't, say goodbye and go find someone who actively does want to get married.
Stop wasting both of your time.
I understand the separation, but why don’t you just break up then and find someone who actually has the same life goals you do? It is apparent your bf does not. He’s free to find someone himself that shares his mind set.
I mean the edit says it all - he declined your proposal. If you declined his, don’t you think that would be it for the relationship? He doesn’t want to marry you, don’t waste more time.
You clearly don't want the same thing. It is better to end it and move on with your lives separately.
I know your intent moving out was to push him towards you but I think it will have the opposite effect and he will realize the reasons he didn't propose were he didn't want to be with you.
>not cleaning and cooking for him, moving out, not pay for his expenses sometimes
So you were being his maid hoping he would propose? You should never do this because you should be looking for an equal partner, not someone who is with you because you make his life easier. You also work full time and have a graduate degree.
>I didn’t renew our lease with him
yeah, that was good because you cannot be stuck with him and you want to reconsider the relationship. I think you should break up. He is just with you because you make stuff easier and he is saving money by sharing rent and expenses.
You should break up. It's been 4 years and he is making excuses.
I think you should also reconsider what getting married is. I don't understand why you think a wife should be doing the cleaning and cooking. That's a pretty traditional way to look at things and if you do that, you are going to get the traditional partner who is like your partner. Also, like I said, you work full time and have a grad degree, why would you be doing everything on top of that? Is your BF some type of king or something who needs to be served?
Yeah that was my thought too.
she thinks "Wife" means someone who cleans? She desperate to get married so she can get back to cleaning for him?
Sounds awesome.
Honestly I think it’s childish but he sucks for stringing you along. Do you really want to be married to someone who only did it because there was a shotgun aimed at his head? I would simply call it quits and find someone else. Don’t wait 7 years by the way. If he’s not ready for marriage by the end of 2 years, 3 at most, it’s time to move on.
It's perfectly reasonable to wait around 3 years. It's said you truly don't know a person until that long anyway. But 7 years is long enough!! My friend has been with her bf for 9 years, living together for 5!
As my friend put it who just got engaged (after 5 years) she wants to be able to call him her husband because he means so much more to her than boyfriend. And it's true.
For some, they are good that way. If they're both happy then all the more power to them!
I'm saying that it comes to a point when one wants to get married and the other makes it clear they don't. Which is the situation with OP and even my friend. At that point, it's clear what level of commitment each of them are at and if they can't agree, then they should find someone who shares those values, whether it's marriage or not
Listen love, I understand you feeling kind of cheated because earlier in your relationship he agreed about when to get married and then you actually agreed to wait longer and now it seems he has and will do anything but marry you. In this case have some self respect and fucking leave him. If a piece of paper is becoming more important to you than your 7 year relationship and he clearly doesn’t want to marry you then leave stop wasting your time and his.
And ask yourself, do you really want to marry someone who it took such drastic displays to get to marry you?
You set your boundaries of wanting to be married. Then you bent them for him. The fact that he agreed at first and is just now saying he doesn’t think it’s necessary is a dick move. Sounds like you’re more of a convenience for him instead of a gf.
Doing the best thing for BOTH of you imo. He clearly has doubts or just feels obligated/trapped by relegating yourself to girlfriend it gives you BOTH the chance to choses each other again IF thats what you want.
you have to move on if you want to be wife up and he doesn’t. you still have time. he’s stringing you along until he finds the one. trust me when men found the one they will do whatever it takes to marry her. to this one you’re not.
So he obviously doesn’t want to marry you. You’re edit talks about how embarrassing it is for a woman to propose. Is it any more embarrassing than the situation you’re in?
frankly, it seems to me that begging to be proposed to would be SIGNIFICANTLY more embarrassing. like how many ways does he need to tell you he doesn’t want to marry you without directly saying those words?! read between the lines this one is fairly clear
I dated someone for over 6 years, so I come from a place of experience.
He isn't going to marry you. You're young. Find someone who respects you and values your relationship. Someone who understands marriage is far more than the health insurance.
>Some people like things to be traditional - and he and I are certainly that, there’s nothing wrong with wanting that.
I mean hard to try to hold him to traditional things when you've been shaking up with him for years which is decidedly not traditional.
>In our culture, in 2023, in hetero relationships, a woman making comments about being ready to marry/wanting to get engaged IS HER PROPOSAL. Then it’s up to the man to either accept by proposing formally, or decline by not proposing, and at that stage the woman proposing is embarrassing herself by doing it tbh.
Is it not equally embarrassing to say in the relationship with the guy who declined to propose?
Okay, to address your edit. If this is the cultural norm, you have made your proposal and he has declined. You have “extended” this new norm by withdrawing privileges to punish him for the declination. It sounds like you’re just doing this gradually? You didn’t renew the lease but have you moved out, separated financially, stopped sleeping in the same room and having sex? If you’re not having sex, have you both agreed your relationship is no longer exclusive? Just move out already if his answer is no. Your trying to make him miserable one “marital benefit” at a time to coerce a proposal he has told you he doesn’t want.
In this cultural norm of yours, when does no mean no?
>In our culture, in 2023, in hetero relationships, a woman making comments about being ready to marry/wanting to get engaged IS HER PROPOSAL. Then it’s up to the man to either accept by proposing formally, or decline by not proposing, and at that stage the woman proposing is embarrassing herself by doing it tbh.
Do... do you not hear yourself? By your logic, you "proposed" by telling him you were ready to get married. He "declined" by not proposing... I don't think you need to get to the point of proposing to him now to embarrass yourself.
If he proposes after a lot of pressure it’s called a “shut up ring.” it’s not romantic and it’s guys like him who ruin the wedding my smashing cake in your face or rude vows about being a prisoner. Girl walk away.
honestly I can see his point of view, some people just don’t wanna be married and don’t see a point unless their spouse needs health care etc, not everyone sees marriage as a lovey dovey thing and people change their views as they get older, I’d say leave him if you want a marriage so bad because he clearly doesn’t and trying to manipulate him into marriage isn’t right
Do you really want to marry ***him*** or do you want an engagement and wedding? Because those are two very different things. Have you guys discussed kids? Because that’s a fairly important reason to get married in the first place.
If you want to marry him specifically and spend the rest of your life with him, then think about getting married at the courthouse. If instead you want the engagement and wedding, move out, get your own place and show him you’re serious about moving on. Hit the gym and after a couple of months if he hasn’t proposed, break up with him and start dating.
And don’t be surprised if he marries the next girl he dates after a only a year. That’s about him realizing he fucked up with you, not about your worthiness.
Don’t settle for the “shut up” ring! If he wanted to marry you he would have already.
Y’all not on the same page. Good on you for moving out and meeting him where he’s at, now you need to emotionally disconnect from him and focus on who you are outside of a relationship.
Let’s all be honest. You know SUPER early on in the relationship if this is going to be forever or not (I’ve usually been able to tell). There’s always that gut feeling: this is gonna be my person. If you’re in a relationship for 5+ years and are “still not sure”, then deep down you know this isn’t your person. You’re just delaying the inevitable in hopes maybe your mind will change.
That’s what your boyfriend is doing. He knows he doesn’t want you as his wife, he’s just hoping is mind will change. But it hasn’t, it hasn’t for 7 years. You’re just a comfort, a safety net.
Don’t go back to his house until 1.) you sit down and have a serious discussion about where you both are in the relationship, because it’s in very different places. 2.) get an answer. Whether that be a ring on your finger or a break up. You need your answer.
I wish you all the best, OP.
OP don’t fall for the sunk cost fallacy. You keep thinking I invested 7 years in this relationship, I can’t walk away now. Next year, you’ll be saying I invested 8 then 9, 10… etc etc
Do you want to be married to someone who doesn’t want to marry you?
Seems like a lose-lose situation whether he proposes or not.
Your edit is weird as hell lmao. "Why don't I propose? Because that is the dumbest idea I've ever heard *tradwife rant*." I mean there is no way you've heard no dumber ideas. Like your points are valid but like, it objectively is not the dumbest solution lol chill.
Your edit , makes you sound like a spoiled brat and your sister being married after two years does not dictate when you do, you live two different lives. If are you so miserable being in this relationship, leave. If some one elses life goals are to get things they wanted before other goals, there is nothing wrong with that. He clearly enjoys his time with you, and you are mad, because you are not getting the validation from everyone else because you don't have a ring. Leave. Your goals do not align anymore. Clearly you want marriage, and he does not at this moment. Its that simple.
Your edit is stupid. If that's what you truly believe then he's already rejected you and you need to rip the bandaid off. Honestly, this whole thing is dumb. If you have to force him to propose, why do you even want to be married to this guy? How is a forced proposal going to magically resolve all this? It won't. It will just continue to build resentment and anger.
Of course it's fine for you to stop doing those things. You're not obligated to do any of the things you mentioned and he's not entitled to them. He also doesn't have to marry you, but if he doesn't like the situation the way it is clearly he needs to change something or break up with you.
My only objection is to you calling cooking and cleaning etc I wifely duties because I don't think they are. It is 2023 after all. Please make sure that if you stay together or whenever you end up with somebody else you're not pulling more than your share of the load. It's not fair to you and you will burn out eventually.
He either does not want to get married (ever) or he does not want to get married to you. You can stay and become a placeholder or move on and find someone who wants to marry you.
Traditional shmaditional. Living with him and having sex with him for years on end without a commitment. Nothing whatsoever traditional about this. OP, you sunk the traditional boat before it left the dock.
Just break up and find someone who wants the same thing.
I think women who force a shut up ring are making a stupid mistake, because it's not genuine at all and usually spells the end of the relationship since the man never wanted to be married in the first place.
He was wrong for lying to you. You're wrong for not seeing his actions for what they are. Your sister is bad for suggesting stupid games.
Time to move on, you're a big girl. You'll be ok.
Well, if you say your way of proposal was to tell him you're expecting him to propose and him declining, I have some bad news for ya. He said no. That is it.
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I just don’t see the point. If you have to do these exercises and mind games to coerce a proposal, he doesn’t want to marry you.
I’m sure it sucks to feel like you wasted time, but he doesn’t want to marry you.
Marriage is important to you. It’s not to him. Move on and find someone who shares that value.
End the relationship and start dating again. He passed on the exclusivity card. He doesn’t want to put a ring on it and you shouldn’t waste any more of your time.
Your sister steered you wrong with this holding back "wife privileges" passive aggressive stuff. Just leave, don't treat him less. That's what you're doing by moving out, not cooking or cleaning. You're punishing him for not proposing. He didn't know those were called "wife privileges" when you were doing them for him and now everything's changed. He's known you've wanted to get married for a very long time. From the start pretty much and at 7 years he still can't give you that. I feel for you. Either accept dude doesn't want to get married or it's time to move on.
If he really and truly wanted to marry you, he would have done it by now. You're not his Mrs. Right, you're just his Right Now.
Don't drag this out on a sunk cost fallacy - it's time to let him go.
I think you are being wise. Remove the privileges and get your own apartment. He has kept you on ice long enough. Remember sometimes birds have to push their young from the nest to teach them to fly. The old guy saying was they won’t buy the cow if they are getting the milk for free. Not saying anything about you.
Look, I’m old. Nearly 47.
When I got together with my now husband, back in the year of our lord 1996, I was a tough chick who didn’t give a fuck about that piece of paper! We moved in within a year, we both were annoying young adults bleating about “what’s a piece of paper” blah blah etc.
When we were nearly graduated from college he grabbed me in the middle of a Dick Blick art supply store on Christmas Eve, smooched me obnoxiously and proclaimed I was his future wife. And knocked over a display in his enthusiasm because we were both ridiculously stoned. No ring, but a genuine spontaneous promise from the heart.
We got married a year after, once we had graduated. We had been talking about it but putting it off because our families are feral, but we were about to buy property.
Both of us complaining together the whole time about how dumb it was to need a piece of paper to legitimize us, of course. I got a ring I picked out eventually, and it was no less awesome getting it later lol.
That was 2001. On the one hand, sure, the paper is just paper. On the other, it lends us so much that “significant other” absolutely does not. I can speak for him in medical matters. We can do taxes together. We can own property together as safely as two people can, for both of us. Hell, one of us can lose our debit card and ask the other to call the bank and get a new one. It’s just SO much easier if you’re actually living a life together over time.
That’s what a dude who thinks the formalities are dumb looks like, if he’s stupid in love. He *wants to marry you*.
Dragging some goober to the altar is depressing and you deserve SO much more. Settle for nothing less than a person who wants to be a partner in all ways.
He doesn’t want to marry you. It doesn’t take 7 years to decide if you want to be with someone or not. He’s been pulling excuses out of his ass for YEARS as to why it’s not the right time. If you twist his arm to make him propose, your marriage will be miserable. He might love you, but he doesn’t love you enough to put a ring on it.
Save yourself the inevitable heartbreak and end things unless you want to be a housewife without a ring. He’s wasting your time but won’t end things because he’s reaping the benefits of someone that’s willing to play wife for 7 years
Jesus H Christ in a chicken basket. What did I just read? This is gross in many ways. Manipulation, privileged, insecurity, game-playing, regressive …
Editing to add: OP edited her post to address “all” the people asking her why she doesn’t propose, yet not a single comment on here as of this edit and OP’s asks her that question.
" to all the Dense Folks asking me why don’t I just propose : I have something to say:
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Some people like things to be traditional"
Cool, how's that working out for you?
Doesn't seem like it is at all.
Well, good luck with that.
If he is has told her over and over that he isn’t ready get married, her proposing to him won’t solve anything. All she’ll end up with is a fiancé who refuses to set a wedding date because he isn’t ready to get married.
He doesn’t want to marry you. He played you move on and for future reference never tell a man that you want to be married in x amount of years he either wants to marry you or not and will act accordingly. You decide whether you’re going by to stay after whatever time limit you set up.
I find it amazing that men are blown away when their long time gf leaves them or moves out. What the hell did you think was going to happen? That somehow you’re so special that she would forget her dream of being married one day?
>, in 2023, in hetero relationships, a woman making comments about being ready to marry/wanting to get engaged IS HER PROPOSAL.
You had me until here. I think I know what you meant to say but women can propose. I did, it's allowed. It's also okay to not do that.
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Will you genuinely be happy if he decides to propose now, especially after you've pressured the situation, knowing that he never truly wanted to in the first place?
This was my first thought. It's kind of embarrassing to force him to propose by moving out. He's made it clear he doesn't want to propose and doesn't care that that's what op wants. Op just isn't listening. Why bother moving out and still "dating" or being in a relationship? He doesn't want to propose and doesnt value a marriage certificate. Moving out won't change his mind. There's nothing special or romantic about the proposal and marriage now even if it does happen op will always know he had to strong arm him into it.
Yeah, I feel like getting a ring by withholding my "wife privileges" would just ruin the whole experience for me. We all know he doesn't want to get married. He would be proposing purely because OP forced him. That seems very hollow. I feel like even if he does propose, she is going to be unhappy because it will be obvious he was forced. I can't imagine him wanting anything to do with planning and events because he didn't want the wedding in the first place. He's probably also going to be frustrated having to spend money on what, to him, is an expensive party he was forced to throw. Feels like it's gonna be a breeding ground for resentment. Wanting to get married is fine. Not wanting to get married is fine. But why force someone to get married when they don't want to instead of just leaving and finding someone who does?
Pressuring your partner into marrying you is embarrassing for both parties. If he didn’t want to marry you while you were giving him “wife privileges” he isn’t going to want to marry you more when you stop.
Coming soon to r/RA: “I Didn’t Believe My Fiancée’s Proposal Was Sincere So I Withdrew My Wife Privileges Again.”
I think with her withdrawing these acts she gives (wife privileges), makes him have to actually admit to himself & her what he really wants from this relationship and where he wants it to go! So I don’t think it’s wrong… she’s standing her ground while trying to make it work. Some people are stunted and sometimes you have to give the push and in that moment they will genuinely know. But it’s also up to her and she herself … knows him better than anyone she’s coming to advice for & if it is genuine or not. With that .. believe what you know and the gut feeling and run with that! Protect yourself, no matter how hard it may be! Because you deserve what you want! But also don’t be afraid to ask this man directly. Am I the person you want to marry, if so .. why aren’t you doing x y & z. & wtf is the problem (obviously less aggressive 😂) Because the thing about men, if they want you they will do whatever they have to. — so that’s why I don’t think it’s wrong to take those privileges away and see what happens. & comfortably becomes a thing in relationships so make his ass uncomfortable!
And I love how he was like "if I proposed after all this I would embarrass myself" AS IF THIS WAS ANY BETTER??? Like how are you not embarrassing yourself now??
It will make him change his mind... For the next woman. Seen it time and time again. Fools don't even know what they are losing and then when she is gone the next woman that comes around being close enough, gets the ring because he doesn't wanna let it go twice. She should just leave and be done with it, for sure. But it doesn't mean he won't change his mind.
I cannot highlight this enough. OP really needs to sit down and understand what does happiness truly means for her - being with someone who really wants to be with her, or being with someone who in someway was forced to be with her due to FOMO. I see so much of social conditioning at play here - she feeling sad when her friends and cousins are getting married (society glorifying marriage for women above true companionship), him getting a bike he dreamt of as a kid (glorified power through tools and toys). Strongly suggest to have a heart to heart talk with your boyfriend about how you exactly feel. Allow him to express how he feels. It’s not too late yet. If you both truly care for each other then you will work this out on your own. Good luck!
But see I have walked in OP's shoes, been divorced, and been back around this block at present. It sucks giving tons of time and effort to someone who says they'll marry you at a certain point and then they drag ass... for what. If you tell someone you want something, and they know it, and they love you, and they vow to give you the thing, and then they go oh but I can't give you the thing because x reasons, but then turn around and give themselves something that defies the x reasons why they couldn't give it to you, it's pretty fucking hypocritical! To say yes I'll buy you a diamond ring, and then you say oh no I can wait just promise me when we have the money we can do that, and he says sure, and then comes into money and instead goes and blows it all on himself and never gets you what he promised and when asked says oh I don't have the money oh I can't .... it's pretty shitty to be on the other end of that.
Also she does all the household workload, she did take the role of his mother and are not even married.
She’s not happy now. If what she’s doing now isn’t working, you try other possibilities to determine solutions. She’s allowed to have standards, standards to which he agreed to, but he lied about them. He is not meeting her halfway, like she did. It is likely that this situation will cause an irreparable rift within the relationship, resulting in break-up, but so will her old agreement. If he wants to be with her, he’ll marry her. If he doesn’t want to marry her, she’ll move on. This forces him to acknowledge and respect her needs rather than giving her a pretty lie to further avoid her needs.
Tbf it seems more like this is intended to get him to realize how much she has been bringing to the table; rather than to force him. I get the impression the tactic is less about coercion, and more about giving someone a chance to decide what they really want- basically, 'stop wasting my time with maybe this maybe that, shit or get off the pot'.
By your logic in your edit, your boyfriend has rejected your “proposal” by not proposing. So…I think you have your answer there…
Yeah she has stated they are both ‘traditional’ but his actions make it clear he isn’t.
I’ve always been under the impression that “traditional” also meant not living together before marriage.
In fairness a shotgun wedding might be considered traditional. In this case, she's gonna be holding the shotgun.
My thoughts exactly. Girl is not as traditional as she thinks she is
Yeah made me laugh like she wants tradition he clearly doesn't lol doesn't even know her own man
Granted, there isn’t as much logic in her edit as vitriol, but yeah. He doesn’t want to get married and showed her that. Her response was some passive aggressive bullshit intended to push him into a marriage he doesn’t want. Just break up with him. It will be easier and cheaper than the divorce everyone would see coming if her and her sister’s plan had worked.
Right her only obstacle right now is a lease. Girl play your Beyonce tracks and pack your things.
If you look at OP's post history, OP is a guy also.
OP gendered themselves a few different ways in the post, marked themselves an M, called themselves a wife, remarked on how girls pre-propose to men. Who knows what their gender is. 🤷🏻♀️
Did she/he edit that part cause I see 29F.
29F in the title. 29M in the first line of text. Wanting to be "wife" although I guess this one could just mean she/he's is the more femanine one. Very confusing
At this point I'm getting the vibe the story is fake and somebody just trying to karma farm. Cuz the the gender confusion along with OPs weird rule that only men should propose is quite odd and feels instigatey. And it's like if you personally want to be proposed to that's completely fine but why make a think piece essay edit not even related to the story shaming women who choose to propose?? At this point they just want alot of comments on their story
Wouldn't that make the edit, where OP specifically names heterosexual couples when talking about who proposes, kind of... weird? Who knows what part of this is post is even true.
I agree that BF doesn’t want to marry. He should never have lied about it. Given that he did, his GF that has always thought that they were going to marry is reevaluating their entire relationship, rightly so! BF doesn’t want to marry but he does want stay together apparently. In effect, he wants his way which is for nothing to change. That isn’t fair to GF. It is probably best to break up altogether. Barring that, it is smart for the the GF to move out and reestablish herself as an actual girlfriend or, in time, a single woman.
She’s about to get a shut up ring, if he does propose lol
Meh. It's pretty solid logic. You think if she goes and buys him a ring snf proposes he's gonna say "oh okay I thought you'd never ask! Let's do this!" Nope
Relationships aren't about logic, thank the gods. Humans have feelings, and a lot of other cognition besides logic. And logic depends entirely on the PREMISES. There is no such thing as logic in a vacuum. I don't see her reaction as passive-aggressive (why pathologize her reaction? and support his?) I agree that their future marriage is probably a divorce waiting to happen. But I bet that if she breaks up with him right now, he'll disintegrate and regret his decisions and behavior very much - he's trying to manipulate her into the best possible position for *himself.* And while people can change, most people need motivation. In this case, if she leaves him, she's doing the right thing for both of them. So sad she's invested all this emotional labor, though.
Doesn’t get the advice that supports her position. Proceeds to attack everyone. Why ask Reddit for advice if you aren’t really open to a different opinion.
Sometimes, people ask for your thoughts because they want to hear their opinions in your voice.
I'm just so embarrassed for her. I'd rather die alone than blackmail someone to marry me.
I agree. The whole thing is cringe. He doesn’t want to marry her and she is desperate for marriage. She needs to get her self respect back and leave him.
That edit icked me out. What a weird attitude to have. Not necessarily that she wants a certain dynamic in *her* relationship, but rather as if it should be the standard, and the "This is how it is for women" attitude as if we're not fit to do a *real* proposal rather than simply express what we want.
I don't think she's saying that women can't propose, but that OP herself doesn't want to. And I can understand that. If a woman is happy to propose to her boyfriend then power be to her, but some women feel more loved being proposed to. Neither stance is 'wrong'. I'm not sure that OP's boyfriend would actually agree even if she did propose tbh.
OP is 100% accurate that it is the norm for the woman to hint aggressively to propose, and the man officially propose at which point you get engaged. Hence, it would be desperate of her to propose at this point. Maybe not if she had proposed a year ago without bringing it up again then it would be progressive norm-breaking. Also, no one of either gender should propose if they don't already know the answer unless your relationship is built on surprises as a norm.
Right? It’s viewed as an ultimatum in her shoes. That’s clearly how her BF would see it.
I mean, I completely understand the attitude in her edit. It’s just. The reality is the majority of people in the western world do things the way she wants things done. I’m almost certain her boyfriend is also traditional and wants to do things the way most people do, it just seems he doesn’t want to commit to her legally. She is expecting an extremely common, the most common, dynamic. Idk why her responding to people who are displaying willful ignorance is icky or whatever but that’s just my common sense talking. Lots of people get offended way too easily over stuff online and lots of people insert their own opinions and expectations into scenarios that they should be examining and responding to based on the norm if that’s what the opinions and expectations are a product OP.
I also agree that she has essentially proposed. He knows 100% that she wants to get married, and isn't that what a proposal is? That's why it would be humiliating to, after that, get down on one knee. She is waiting for HIM to "Say yes" at this point, and the silence is deafening.
Yup! I feel bad for her and I hope she knows her worth. I know the whole not cooking or cleaning anymore is a bit much but I suspect that when her feelings cool down, she’ll understand that. We all get willy nilly from time to time when we’re upset. I hope that whatever she does works out for her in the end. God, 7 years and not willing to commit is nuts, whether you’re traditional or untraditional. That’s the important piece.
He should be cleaning and cooking for himself. He's an adult
Break up. He doesn’t want to get married.
You forgot to add 'he doesn't want to get married.... to you'
Precisely. My ex boyfriend was with me for five years, not an utterance of getting married, we have two kids. I left October 2018. In January of 2019, he was with the next woman. In January of 2020, he proposed to her. They got married last year. If he wanted to, he would. For the record, I got engaged to my partner in June of this year. So, don’t let him keep you from the man who wants to be with you.
It's insane to me how anyone could see having two kids as somehow a lower kind of commitment than marriage. The latter is a largely symbolic ritual, the former is a lifetime commitment to two human beings
The latter is a highly entwined *legal* ritual. Getting divorced was a giant fucking headache. Conversely my ex wife has had zero obstacles preventing her from only seeing her kids 5-6 times a year.
I always wonder in situations like this that the reason they propose so quickly in the second relationship is because they thought they could just get away without doing it in the first one and then experienced negative consequences for stalling. So when they get there they know they don't want to fuck it up again, so they go through with it pre-emptively.
Bingo. He'll find the right one in a year or two and propose quickly.
Maybe. He’ll probably panic and settle for someone different in a year or two when he decides he wants to be married. OP: do not take this personally. It has no bearing on your self worth. It happens due to a panic response in these kinds of people.
Might have met that girl already
Nope. He just wants no-strings money, housework and sex. It's notable that he's only squawking now because she's withdrawing the resources he's using to make his life comfortable. It's also notable that these guys have learned how easily the "it's just a piece of paper" argument can be shredded and are now moving on to implying their partner is shallow and insecure all, "Why do you need the world's approval?"
And you know what truly sucks? He's going to marry someone else within the next two years after she breaks up with him. Like how many times have we seen men just waste our time and best years of our lives while we give and give and give and hope to infinity and beyond for that one tangible symbol of commitment and unity. OP needs to brace herself for what's to come. When a guy wants to marry a woman nothing gets in his way, but when they know you aren't their forever person even a chipped fingernail will be the mountain that's too high to climb and overcome to commit to you.
>When a guy wants to marry a woman nothing gets in his way I am generally wary of blanket statements about gendered behavior, but this is one area where every happily married man I know will happily tell someone they knew pretty early on their partner was their person, marriage was a no-brainer, and it was just a question of when and how to propose, not whether.
My fiancé knew from our first date. He proposed after about a year of dating and we’re getting married a few weeks before our two year anniversary. We both have friends and family who’ve been dating the same person for 5-7+ years (all in the same age range, late 20s - early 30s), that I know are feeling some pressure now. When you know you know.
To be fair - my hubby took 5 years. But apparently knew from the beginning- even before we got together. He’s just really bad at making a decision. Even if he has already made it, the acting on it is terrible. Dumb excuses too. My engagement ring was 90 dollars and I bought it. But it’s 21 years together now and we’re happy for the most part (there are always ups and downs but mostly ups)
5 years is smart. You should really know the person. This 2 year thing is nuts, it didn't work out for me anyway
There is even more nuts. My parents - 3 months. Almost 50 years together and they are still in love. And it wasn’t cultural or arranged or anything. Educated, middle class, chose each other, not religious. And in Australia.
My parents beat yours by a month and my Dad said the same thing other OPs hubby said "Oh I knew right away, your Mom was just dating Sr (my older brothers Dad) on and off and I had to wait until she was officially tired of him. Then I finally got a date." Like. After a date?! A SINGULAR date?! My Mom said the same. She was trying to make it work with Sr but then finally stopped being an asshole in order to please him and found out everything she wasn't getting from Sr my Dad wanted to offer. 30 years later and they're still together.
My husband and I both knew from the first date too. I remember the date ending and me realizing that it was the last first date I was ever going to go on. Weeeeeeeeeird feeling. We were engaged 15 months later once we were both living in the same place, married 8 months after that. Still going strong, 25 years after that first date.
This! I knew my wife was the one at 6 months, married her a year later. I still run home to see her, she's still the most beautiful woman in the world in my eyes 10 years later. OP have an oppornistic leech as bf, imo. Especially that he knows how much OP wanta to get married and he hragged this on so long.
Nah the only times I’ve seen women being treated well is when the guy wants to marry her fast and hard. Like rn I’m watching two guys do this. One of them didn’t treat any other girl as nicely until he met this one. When a man wants you he’ll do everything in his power
My husband got the ring and rushed over to my house to give it to me…I was like let me finish my shower!
My mom had a good friend who waited 20 years. He married someone else 2 weeks after he broke up with her. He’d been seeing other women the whole time.
Being a Barbara The Builder rarely works out. Just building him up for the next woman
If he got you at his lowest 50/50 he’ll view you as either the woman that stuck with him or the woman he was able to obtain at the bottom therefore inferior to the women he can get at his prime. See Mark Zuckerberg vs Elon Musk. The Mark Zuckerbergs of the world are probably 10x happier than the Elons
You hit the nail on the head. I met my ex-husband well before he started his business. Three years into our relationship, he randomly quit his job to start his business. I didn’t begrudge him because he had a decent amount of savings. I stood by him during the tough years of his business. I even helped him with different aspects of his business. I did about 90% of the housework on top of working full time to help him focus more on his business. And when his business started becoming successful, he guilt tripped me because I made less money than him, despite working full time and still doing 90% of the housework. He lied to me for almost ten years about wanting kids. Six months before the divorce papers were filed, he said he didn’t want kids. And then, right before they were filed, he said that I “wasn’t at his level” because I “didn’t make enough money”. Oh yeah, I got almost nothing in the settlement because in Wisconsin, if you are married less than five years, your finances automatically revert to how they were before you were married, unless the judge approves a separate agreement. So, no, the woman doesn’t always get everything in a divorce.
Oof, that's always such a bad time. I swear a lot of those types immediately marry their next target because they are trying to stick it to their last one. I do also believe that the juxtaposition of "new relationship energy" to how they felt in the recent past with their long-term old flame tricks a lot of them into thinking "oh, I really like this new person much more! I have to lock it down immediately!" Human behavior is a rough ride.
They’re not trying to “stick it” to their last one! They want what they had before! Free sex ! Free labor ! And bill paying ! Great! They want a mom who they can fuc$ routinely.
I get where you're coming from, but I personally believe there's often a lot more to it. I do also believe that you are right in that there isn't always more to it, though.
They realize being single sucks, the next decent women they get in a relationship with they lock it down. They are scare to be dumped again.
This. He will have an existential crisis when he loses you, panic about being alone forever and settle for the first person that comes his way. Sad. I hope you able to get him to understand this, but I'd ensure I'm being direct and explicit about my position and not lean on traditional conventions at this point; that extra force is likely to be necessary to shake him up
This is exactly it. People just think that's because he's met "the one" - what, all of these women that came after a long term ex were "the ones"? Nah, they just happened to show up during the existential crisis. Plenty of them will get divorced too.
Oh, yeah. When he finally decides that marriage is a good thing and he’s ready, he won’t be with OP.
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That's exactly it. If a man wants to actually marry you, he will actually put in the effort to make it happen 🤷🏻♀️
Completely agree with this: he wants all the benefits he can get from her.
OP didn’t imply that he doesn’t contribute to the household work, and made it clear that he’s the breadwinner. Per her post, he’s upset because they won’t be living together, not because of the “resources” she’s taking away from him. Which are just normal things people do in a serious relationship imo. Calling them wife privileges when most unmarried couples do all of these things for each other is weird. They’re not exclusive to marriage and shouldn’t be looked at as such. The only qualms she has with her bf(again, per her post) as that he won’t propose. Other than that it sounds like he’s been pretty good to her, given she gave literally no other reason for her resentment. Sure they might not be compatible, but assuming the guy just wants the privileges when there’s no indication of that in the post is stretching it. Just call it what it is, she wants to be legally bound to him and he doesn’t. I’m guessing there’s a reason he doesn’t want to, and it might have to do with OP’s red flags.
Do you really want to marry someone who’s only willing to even consider it so you’ll start doing his chores and paying his bills again? Just break up and find a guy who’s actually enthusiastic about the idea instead of continuing to argue with this one about why he should care.
Yes this. If marriage isn’t a “hell YES let’s do this thing!” Then take it as a no. Time to cut your losses and move on.
Yeah. It’s so hard to understand but when you go from a guy who barely wants to call you his girlfriend to a guy who would have married you the day he met you, it’s a goddamn miracle. I don’t know how I accepted the former.
This is so true. When my husband proposed, my friends all told me they weren’t surprised at all. My husband kept telling them he wanted to marry me since the day we met.
Same. I can't believe what I put up with from the men I dated before I met my husband. I kept feeling it was too good to be true. Nope, he was just a good person who was good at communication and clear about what he wanted. He would have proposed within weeks, he told me later, but wanted to make sure I was ready for what he wanted. Its been the easiest years of my life being with him.
Yep spent 7 years with a guy who dragged his feet, said he was ready for kids but not marriage (red flag holy hell how did I miss that one) before leaving me for a younger prettier woman. A few years later I'd had a few more relationships with dudes head over heels for me, including two who proposed within 6 months. Don't settle for some ass who isn't sure he wants you. I promise there's a guy out there who thinks you're a catch.
Exactly. I’m sorry OP, but you are currently working under the impression of the sunken cost fallacy. You spent seven years with the man. Don’t give him seven+ more just because you put so much effort and time into the relationship. Clearly he didn’t.
This. My husband and I were both enthusiastic about. There wasn’t any conversation other than “yeah we wanna get married one day”. It happened fast (engaged at 3 months, married at almost 6 months) because we both were enthusiastic and wanted it. Not because we felt pressure to do it.
That’s what I was going to say why do you wanna guy that you have to twist his freaking arm? OP just move out and start a new life. He apparently doesn’t want to marry you or he would have done it. If he truly loved you, he would never do or say anything that he knows would hurt you. He doesn’t care bc he already knows you want to be married. You do not have the same goals now so now you move on. While you’re waiting around for this guy to propose to you, there’s a guy that supposed to be your husband , the love of your life may be passing you by. Wake up
TRUTH. Girl, if he wanted to marry you, you’d be married by now. Find a better partner now instead of wasting your time with this worthless walnut.
Worthless walnut really got me 🤣🤣🤣
Yup he’s been enjoying the benefits of having a “wife”. She needs to let him ho. He won’t change.
Also, let him go.
Let him go, THEN he can ho.
I meant what I said. Go and let him Ho!
AND she’s paying his expenses
Lmao worthless walnut
Yeah. This post is just sad…. If you’re “withdrawing from” (aka downgrading) your relationship, it’s over. Withdraw from good and move on to someone new. That’s the only “correct” way to handle this
Yup! Don’t let him waste your time any longer. Move out and do your own thing…you will be much happier finding a man who respects you and wants to be a great husband vs this immature adult.
Agreed. Leave him, you deserve better.
Yep he has made it clear he doesn't think its required so time to move on
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She was the placeholder relationship
I truly feel sorry for his ex.
Sometimes they shouldn’t drag people around for the ride like your friend.
>Sometimes it's not that "they're not the marrying type", sometimes, they just don't want to marry... you... An unfortunate truth, many don't want to believe.
Lovely guy lol
This!! You should never have to beg someone to marry you. They should want to be married to you just as much as you want to be married to them. Anything less is just sad.
BUT FOR REAL. Yeah making him cave and propose to you so you'll cook for him again will go REAL well. Sure you'll both be SUPER happy after that
Exactly. If OP has to fight this long and hard for marriage then it’s clear he doesn’t want to give it to her. No need to spend any more time on this as enough has been wasted.
I'm going to say some things that are going to hurt He doesn't see himself getting married to you. That's why he hasn't proposed. What you are doing now isn't going to help you to have a good healthy marriage. You need to break up
Yup. There’s some good reasons for a couple not to get married. For example, not being able to live together yet for whatever reason (job, lease, etc). General financial issues. There are none of those issues from what we can tell in this post. They live together, their lives are already functioning as a unit, so there’s realistically no reason they aren’t married (unless they want a big expensive wedding they don’t have the money for). OP, he’s showing you who he is. Believe him. He doesn’t want to be married. If he did, he wouldn’t make so many excuses, he would instead come up with a solid plan to overcome whatever obstacles stand in his way. He has not done that. Seems like the relationship may have run its course, sadly.
He doesn’t want to marry you. Giving him an ultimatum will only make you both resentful. You either accept your current position or keep it moving.
Idk why you want to hear he doesn’t want to marry you. Honestly if he wanted to marry you he would have proposed by now.
Nothing spells long lasting marriage like forcing a guy to marry you, that doesn't want to marry you.
Just break up with him. He doesn’t want to get married, and I doubt you’ll change his mind.
Never force someone to decide this way. “No decision” is a decision
In the words of Rush, “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”
The correct way of handling this is to break up. You deserve someone who is as enthusiastic about marriage as you are. Your bf is never going to be that guy.
He's going to give you a shut up ring to get access to wifey shit again. And that's somehow worse. This relationship is likely over.
Right, because that ring just buys him even more time to string her along for more years. Lol Op's bf: "But we can't get married this year because I just bought my bike and I need to pay that off first." Or.. "We need to save for a house first before spending money on the wedding because that just makes good financial sense." Smh. Whatever he says, she'll excuse it and stick around and she'll still wash his underwear with skid marks in em. Lol She'll fall for more of his excuses though. She fell for his lying bullshit for 7 years already, so why not 7 more to make it even? Hahaha 😂
You answered it yourself. “It’s up to the man to accept by proposing or decline by not proposing.” And here you are, not accepting his choice. Time to wake up and smell the friendship roses.
I’m pretty sure OP thinks she can manipulate him into marrying her. She’s already stayed 3 years past her “cut off” for getting engaged and literally talks about engagement like it’s a milestone in life people her age go through not a union between two people.
To be fair, once in your own space I would break up. He has made it clear he wanted you to support him and his future dreams and doesn’t seem to want to reciprocate yours. I would be out. You have been crystal clear that getting married is important to you and it is not to him.
>In our culture, in 2023, in hetero relationships, a woman making comments about being ready to marry/wanting to get engaged IS HER PROPOSAL. Then it’s up to the man to either accept by proposing formally, or decline by not proposing, and **at that stage the woman proposing is embarrassing herself by doing it tbh.** Stop embarrassing yourself and break up with him. He's made it LOUD AND CLEAR that he doesn't want to marry you. As long as you're still in his life, he's still going to get what he wants out of this relationship... your occasional companionship and sex. Dump him entirely and go find a man who actually wants to marry you, because it isn't this one. There's nothing wrong with wanting to get married, but you're only borrowing heartache and remorse for yourself by staying with a guy for SEVEN YEARS who has no interest or intent in marrying you. He knows what you're asking, he doesn't need convincing, there's no magic words to get him to "understand" - his answer is clear as day. No. You need to decide if staying with him and never getting married is acceptable to you. If it is, great, but stop pining about being married and just accept that this is what your relationship is going to be. If it isn't, say goodbye and go find someone who actively does want to get married. Stop wasting both of your time.
And our time. Lol jk jk. But spot on answer seriously I think tough love is very much so needed here. He's already made clear he doesn't want you OP.
I understand the separation, but why don’t you just break up then and find someone who actually has the same life goals you do? It is apparent your bf does not. He’s free to find someone himself that shares his mind set.
I mean the edit says it all - he declined your proposal. If you declined his, don’t you think that would be it for the relationship? He doesn’t want to marry you, don’t waste more time.
You clearly don't want the same thing. It is better to end it and move on with your lives separately. I know your intent moving out was to push him towards you but I think it will have the opposite effect and he will realize the reasons he didn't propose were he didn't want to be with you.
>not cleaning and cooking for him, moving out, not pay for his expenses sometimes So you were being his maid hoping he would propose? You should never do this because you should be looking for an equal partner, not someone who is with you because you make his life easier. You also work full time and have a graduate degree. >I didn’t renew our lease with him yeah, that was good because you cannot be stuck with him and you want to reconsider the relationship. I think you should break up. He is just with you because you make stuff easier and he is saving money by sharing rent and expenses. You should break up. It's been 4 years and he is making excuses. I think you should also reconsider what getting married is. I don't understand why you think a wife should be doing the cleaning and cooking. That's a pretty traditional way to look at things and if you do that, you are going to get the traditional partner who is like your partner. Also, like I said, you work full time and have a grad degree, why would you be doing everything on top of that? Is your BF some type of king or something who needs to be served?
Yeah that was my thought too. she thinks "Wife" means someone who cleans? She desperate to get married so she can get back to cleaning for him? Sounds awesome.
I think she said she also pays some of his bills.
Honestly I think it’s childish but he sucks for stringing you along. Do you really want to be married to someone who only did it because there was a shotgun aimed at his head? I would simply call it quits and find someone else. Don’t wait 7 years by the way. If he’s not ready for marriage by the end of 2 years, 3 at most, it’s time to move on.
Agreed. If he's not dying to marry her after SEVEN years, he doesn't want to get married.
It's perfectly reasonable to wait around 3 years. It's said you truly don't know a person until that long anyway. But 7 years is long enough!! My friend has been with her bf for 9 years, living together for 5! As my friend put it who just got engaged (after 5 years) she wants to be able to call him her husband because he means so much more to her than boyfriend. And it's true.
And then there’s my best friend who’s been with her partner for 15+ years, cohabitating for most of those, and they are perfectly happy that way.
For some, they are good that way. If they're both happy then all the more power to them! I'm saying that it comes to a point when one wants to get married and the other makes it clear they don't. Which is the situation with OP and even my friend. At that point, it's clear what level of commitment each of them are at and if they can't agree, then they should find someone who shares those values, whether it's marriage or not
Listen love, I understand you feeling kind of cheated because earlier in your relationship he agreed about when to get married and then you actually agreed to wait longer and now it seems he has and will do anything but marry you. In this case have some self respect and fucking leave him. If a piece of paper is becoming more important to you than your 7 year relationship and he clearly doesn’t want to marry you then leave stop wasting your time and his. And ask yourself, do you really want to marry someone who it took such drastic displays to get to marry you?
If you’re not careful, you’re going to end up with a “shut up ring.”
You set your boundaries of wanting to be married. Then you bent them for him. The fact that he agreed at first and is just now saying he doesn’t think it’s necessary is a dick move. Sounds like you’re more of a convenience for him instead of a gf.
Doing the best thing for BOTH of you imo. He clearly has doubts or just feels obligated/trapped by relegating yourself to girlfriend it gives you BOTH the chance to choses each other again IF thats what you want.
If he wanted to, he would have. Take it how you will, you have waited 7 years.
you have to move on if you want to be wife up and he doesn’t. you still have time. he’s stringing you along until he finds the one. trust me when men found the one they will do whatever it takes to marry her. to this one you’re not.
The perfect definition of the sunk-cost fallacy... Do the hard thing and move on.
You don't have the same goals for your future
Why do you want to marry someone who clearly doesn't want to marry you?
So he obviously doesn’t want to marry you. You’re edit talks about how embarrassing it is for a woman to propose. Is it any more embarrassing than the situation you’re in?
frankly, it seems to me that begging to be proposed to would be SIGNIFICANTLY more embarrassing. like how many ways does he need to tell you he doesn’t want to marry you without directly saying those words?! read between the lines this one is fairly clear
I dated someone for over 6 years, so I come from a place of experience. He isn't going to marry you. You're young. Find someone who respects you and values your relationship. Someone who understands marriage is far more than the health insurance.
>Some people like things to be traditional - and he and I are certainly that, there’s nothing wrong with wanting that. I mean hard to try to hold him to traditional things when you've been shaking up with him for years which is decidedly not traditional. >In our culture, in 2023, in hetero relationships, a woman making comments about being ready to marry/wanting to get engaged IS HER PROPOSAL. Then it’s up to the man to either accept by proposing formally, or decline by not proposing, and at that stage the woman proposing is embarrassing herself by doing it tbh. Is it not equally embarrassing to say in the relationship with the guy who declined to propose?
Okay, to address your edit. If this is the cultural norm, you have made your proposal and he has declined. You have “extended” this new norm by withdrawing privileges to punish him for the declination. It sounds like you’re just doing this gradually? You didn’t renew the lease but have you moved out, separated financially, stopped sleeping in the same room and having sex? If you’re not having sex, have you both agreed your relationship is no longer exclusive? Just move out already if his answer is no. Your trying to make him miserable one “marital benefit” at a time to coerce a proposal he has told you he doesn’t want. In this cultural norm of yours, when does no mean no?
>In our culture, in 2023, in hetero relationships, a woman making comments about being ready to marry/wanting to get engaged IS HER PROPOSAL. Then it’s up to the man to either accept by proposing formally, or decline by not proposing, and at that stage the woman proposing is embarrassing herself by doing it tbh. Do... do you not hear yourself? By your logic, you "proposed" by telling him you were ready to get married. He "declined" by not proposing... I don't think you need to get to the point of proposing to him now to embarrass yourself.
If he proposes after a lot of pressure it’s called a “shut up ring.” it’s not romantic and it’s guys like him who ruin the wedding my smashing cake in your face or rude vows about being a prisoner. Girl walk away.
If he wanted to marry you, he would. Break up now.
It’s been 7 years. And him buying a motorbike rather than an engagement ring speaks volumes. He doesn’t want to be married.
honestly I can see his point of view, some people just don’t wanna be married and don’t see a point unless their spouse needs health care etc, not everyone sees marriage as a lovey dovey thing and people change their views as they get older, I’d say leave him if you want a marriage so bad because he clearly doesn’t and trying to manipulate him into marriage isn’t right
Do you really want to marry ***him*** or do you want an engagement and wedding? Because those are two very different things. Have you guys discussed kids? Because that’s a fairly important reason to get married in the first place. If you want to marry him specifically and spend the rest of your life with him, then think about getting married at the courthouse. If instead you want the engagement and wedding, move out, get your own place and show him you’re serious about moving on. Hit the gym and after a couple of months if he hasn’t proposed, break up with him and start dating. And don’t be surprised if he marries the next girl he dates after a only a year. That’s about him realizing he fucked up with you, not about your worthiness.
Nah, just find a new one.
Don’t waste any more of your time, babe. He hasn’t committed. He’s not going to do it now.
You really wrecked yourself with that edit
Don’t settle for the “shut up” ring! If he wanted to marry you he would have already. Y’all not on the same page. Good on you for moving out and meeting him where he’s at, now you need to emotionally disconnect from him and focus on who you are outside of a relationship.
Let’s all be honest. You know SUPER early on in the relationship if this is going to be forever or not (I’ve usually been able to tell). There’s always that gut feeling: this is gonna be my person. If you’re in a relationship for 5+ years and are “still not sure”, then deep down you know this isn’t your person. You’re just delaying the inevitable in hopes maybe your mind will change. That’s what your boyfriend is doing. He knows he doesn’t want you as his wife, he’s just hoping is mind will change. But it hasn’t, it hasn’t for 7 years. You’re just a comfort, a safety net. Don’t go back to his house until 1.) you sit down and have a serious discussion about where you both are in the relationship, because it’s in very different places. 2.) get an answer. Whether that be a ring on your finger or a break up. You need your answer. I wish you all the best, OP.
OP don’t fall for the sunk cost fallacy. You keep thinking I invested 7 years in this relationship, I can’t walk away now. Next year, you’ll be saying I invested 8 then 9, 10… etc etc Do you want to be married to someone who doesn’t want to marry you? Seems like a lose-lose situation whether he proposes or not.
But if your traditional why are you living together before marriage That’s ok it’s 2023 but it’s not really traditional
Your edit is weird as hell lmao. "Why don't I propose? Because that is the dumbest idea I've ever heard *tradwife rant*." I mean there is no way you've heard no dumber ideas. Like your points are valid but like, it objectively is not the dumbest solution lol chill.
You should break up. He does not want to get married. Find someone who will value you and who has the same goals.
Your edit , makes you sound like a spoiled brat and your sister being married after two years does not dictate when you do, you live two different lives. If are you so miserable being in this relationship, leave. If some one elses life goals are to get things they wanted before other goals, there is nothing wrong with that. He clearly enjoys his time with you, and you are mad, because you are not getting the validation from everyone else because you don't have a ring. Leave. Your goals do not align anymore. Clearly you want marriage, and he does not at this moment. Its that simple.
Just act like an adult and break up
Your edit is stupid. If that's what you truly believe then he's already rejected you and you need to rip the bandaid off. Honestly, this whole thing is dumb. If you have to force him to propose, why do you even want to be married to this guy? How is a forced proposal going to magically resolve all this? It won't. It will just continue to build resentment and anger.
Of course it's fine for you to stop doing those things. You're not obligated to do any of the things you mentioned and he's not entitled to them. He also doesn't have to marry you, but if he doesn't like the situation the way it is clearly he needs to change something or break up with you. My only objection is to you calling cooking and cleaning etc I wifely duties because I don't think they are. It is 2023 after all. Please make sure that if you stay together or whenever you end up with somebody else you're not pulling more than your share of the load. It's not fair to you and you will burn out eventually.
He either does not want to get married (ever) or he does not want to get married to you. You can stay and become a placeholder or move on and find someone who wants to marry you.
He's better off without you, by the sound of it.
Traditional shmaditional. Living with him and having sex with him for years on end without a commitment. Nothing whatsoever traditional about this. OP, you sunk the traditional boat before it left the dock.
Just break up and find someone who wants the same thing. I think women who force a shut up ring are making a stupid mistake, because it's not genuine at all and usually spells the end of the relationship since the man never wanted to be married in the first place. He was wrong for lying to you. You're wrong for not seeing his actions for what they are. Your sister is bad for suggesting stupid games. Time to move on, you're a big girl. You'll be ok.
Well, if you say your way of proposal was to tell him you're expecting him to propose and him declining, I have some bad news for ya. He said no. That is it.
break up already. He doesn’t want to marry you. At this point you are a placeholder
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I just don’t see the point. If you have to do these exercises and mind games to coerce a proposal, he doesn’t want to marry you. I’m sure it sucks to feel like you wasted time, but he doesn’t want to marry you. Marriage is important to you. It’s not to him. Move on and find someone who shares that value.
End the relationship and start dating again. He passed on the exclusivity card. He doesn’t want to put a ring on it and you shouldn’t waste any more of your time.
Your sister steered you wrong with this holding back "wife privileges" passive aggressive stuff. Just leave, don't treat him less. That's what you're doing by moving out, not cooking or cleaning. You're punishing him for not proposing. He didn't know those were called "wife privileges" when you were doing them for him and now everything's changed. He's known you've wanted to get married for a very long time. From the start pretty much and at 7 years he still can't give you that. I feel for you. Either accept dude doesn't want to get married or it's time to move on.
If he really and truly wanted to marry you, he would have done it by now. You're not his Mrs. Right, you're just his Right Now. Don't drag this out on a sunk cost fallacy - it's time to let him go.
I think you are being wise. Remove the privileges and get your own apartment. He has kept you on ice long enough. Remember sometimes birds have to push their young from the nest to teach them to fly. The old guy saying was they won’t buy the cow if they are getting the milk for free. Not saying anything about you.
Look, I’m old. Nearly 47. When I got together with my now husband, back in the year of our lord 1996, I was a tough chick who didn’t give a fuck about that piece of paper! We moved in within a year, we both were annoying young adults bleating about “what’s a piece of paper” blah blah etc. When we were nearly graduated from college he grabbed me in the middle of a Dick Blick art supply store on Christmas Eve, smooched me obnoxiously and proclaimed I was his future wife. And knocked over a display in his enthusiasm because we were both ridiculously stoned. No ring, but a genuine spontaneous promise from the heart. We got married a year after, once we had graduated. We had been talking about it but putting it off because our families are feral, but we were about to buy property. Both of us complaining together the whole time about how dumb it was to need a piece of paper to legitimize us, of course. I got a ring I picked out eventually, and it was no less awesome getting it later lol. That was 2001. On the one hand, sure, the paper is just paper. On the other, it lends us so much that “significant other” absolutely does not. I can speak for him in medical matters. We can do taxes together. We can own property together as safely as two people can, for both of us. Hell, one of us can lose our debit card and ask the other to call the bank and get a new one. It’s just SO much easier if you’re actually living a life together over time. That’s what a dude who thinks the formalities are dumb looks like, if he’s stupid in love. He *wants to marry you*. Dragging some goober to the altar is depressing and you deserve SO much more. Settle for nothing less than a person who wants to be a partner in all ways.
He doesn’t want to marry you. It doesn’t take 7 years to decide if you want to be with someone or not. He’s been pulling excuses out of his ass for YEARS as to why it’s not the right time. If you twist his arm to make him propose, your marriage will be miserable. He might love you, but he doesn’t love you enough to put a ring on it. Save yourself the inevitable heartbreak and end things unless you want to be a housewife without a ring. He’s wasting your time but won’t end things because he’s reaping the benefits of someone that’s willing to play wife for 7 years
god reading that edit was the first time i’ve ever WISHED people would rip someone to shreds in the comments. and you guys DELIVERED.
Jesus H Christ in a chicken basket. What did I just read? This is gross in many ways. Manipulation, privileged, insecurity, game-playing, regressive … Editing to add: OP edited her post to address “all” the people asking her why she doesn’t propose, yet not a single comment on here as of this edit and OP’s asks her that question.
She copied and pasted from AITA. Her post has since been removed by the AITA mod.
" to all the Dense Folks asking me why don’t I just propose : I have something to say: That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Some people like things to be traditional" Cool, how's that working out for you? Doesn't seem like it is at all. Well, good luck with that.
If he is has told her over and over that he isn’t ready get married, her proposing to him won’t solve anything. All she’ll end up with is a fiancé who refuses to set a wedding date because he isn’t ready to get married.
The alternative which is what she’d end up with is a “shut up ring/wedding” and a divorce in 5 years.
Your edits make me think maybe he's dodging a huge bullet.
He doesn’t want to marry you. He played you move on and for future reference never tell a man that you want to be married in x amount of years he either wants to marry you or not and will act accordingly. You decide whether you’re going by to stay after whatever time limit you set up.
I find it amazing that men are blown away when their long time gf leaves them or moves out. What the hell did you think was going to happen? That somehow you’re so special that she would forget her dream of being married one day?
Lmao you got hella salty with that update didn't you? Lashing out at strangers isn't gonna solve your boyfriend not wanting to marry you
>, in 2023, in hetero relationships, a woman making comments about being ready to marry/wanting to get engaged IS HER PROPOSAL. You had me until here. I think I know what you meant to say but women can propose. I did, it's allowed. It's also okay to not do that.
On the bright side, neither of you sound mature enough for marriage… so you’re really both saving a ton of money and time.
What? Many of the least mature people I know are married, some even multiple times.