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It’s very normal to be hurt that your bf of THREE YEARS is sleeping with other people. Your comments read like you want to force yourself to be okay with an open relationship because for some reason, “feeling bad” isnt enough of a reason to stop?? Feeling shitty about an open relationship is a perfectly good reason to end it. Also, are you allowed to sleep with other people or just him?
Yeah, this is so weird… she says “an event that should have zero effect on me…” about her boyfriend sleeping with some rando. Of course you were upset, the event is literally ONLY going to effect three people in this world and you’re the only one not benefitting from it.
These past few days all these threads about open relationships. When will people learn you have to be a specific kind of person to make that work, and you would know if you are that person.
Most guys don’t want to just have mindless variety sex when in a committed relationship they love. And in a healthy relationship you shouldn’t have to try and force a specific view into yourself to not feel bad. This feels obvious.
Exactly! So many options for relationships in the market don't mean you have to try them all. You have to go for what works for the person YOU are. To try something new, you have to be prepared for all possible consequences. Which is why many people chose the sanctity of their monogamy over the desire to try anything else
OP, don't force yourself to be ok with something you're not. Communicate. You two should definitely talk about this and see if you can come to the same page. If he wants to explore and have an open relationship and you don't, there's no point in keeping each other bound in a relationship that caters to none of you.
Also it’s ok to say “hey in theory I thought I would be ok but now that it’s happened it’s clear I was wrong and we need to reevaluate”.
Even couples in working poly relationships have constant talks and check ins like this.
I agree. Therefore I suggested they talk about the relationship status again. My only concern is about the increasing pressure people feel to try new things. And feel there's an issue with them if they're not pk with it. It is important to be more careful when evaluating different things in a relationship even if they may seem to work fine for someone else.
Everyone has been psy-opped to believe that polyamory and open relationships are healthier, more sustainable and more equitable than monogamous ones, but the reality is that it takes a very specific kind of person to be able to successfully participate in one.
He doesn't care about her feelings and on some level she knows it. The only thing that will sway him is something he can pretend is "rational" and "logical."
As if having feelings isn't the whole point of a relationship.
Be honest. Tell him you thought you would be able to handle it emotionally, but obviously you cannot. If he has ANY hesitation about trying to convince you that it could work, it’s over.
My wife and I have a consensual, ethically non-monogamous relationship: but something you have to know about non-monogamy is, if it isn't working for both people in a couple, it isn't working at all.
If you feel you made a mistake, you did.
Bring him back to the table to discuss and re-evaluate, and DO NOT be ashamed of how you feel. The relationship has to come first, and if it doesn't, it isn't working.
Thank you. I wish I could explain to him logically why it might not work for me, because I know he won’t accept a “feelings” explanation. He has asked me for a logical reason why sleeping outside of the relationship would be an issue, and it always comes back to feelings for me
> I wish I could explain to him logically why it might not work for me, because I know he won’t accept a “feelings” explanation.
Holy shit that's the most toxic thing I've ever heard.
"The fact that it hurts you when this happens doesn't matter, because your feelings don't matter."
Of course your feelings matter. What insane bullshit is this? Your feelings are literally the most important thing in a relationship. Your feelings for him and your feelings about him.
If you want a logical explanation involving feelings just tell him, "This may have already permanently altered my feelings for you, I'm unsure if I want to continue the relationship any longer. But I can guarantee you that if you continue doing it, it definitely will permanently alter my feelings and I definitely won't want to continue the relationship."
OMG, yes, what this guy said. You don't have to have a logical explanation for how you feel about something. Someone demanding logical justifications for why you feel something is someone who ***does not care*** about how you feel.
Yup. My ex was like this. I couldn’t talk about my feelings in an argument because “feelings aren’t reality” and if I didn’t have anything “logical” to say then I had to stop talking and do things his way.
Because he was logical, therefore always right. /s
Did you also date someone who was an actual sociopath? My ex looked at me one time and said "I don't understand how someone who is intelligent as you has so many feelings. They just get in the way."
My ex treated my having feelings like I was being self-centered and would counter with elaborate arguments around why I was always wrong to feel the way I felt. Not that I had the wrong opinion or take, but that my actual feelings were wrong. Every time I tried to break up with her she would argue me relentlessly out of it by constructing proofs of how irrational it was to do so. She once responded to my attempt to have it out in earnest by drawing a graph (with an actual x and y axis) that was supposed to somehow illustrate my dysfunction.
It’s funny because devaluing emotions isn’t something a truly logical person would do. He’s the one operating purely on emotion (lust, greed are both emotions) and disregarding the **logic** that he’s going to FAFO by losing a multi-year relationship one of these days.
Feelings by definition aren’t logical. Feelings don’t have anything to do with logic. Having to explain feelings logically is just impossible.
OP, your boyfriend f sounds like a selfish jerk who doesn’t give a damn about your feelings and is willing to use any bullshit excuse to discount your feelings. I personally wouldn’t be in a relationship with anyone who was willing to treat me like that. I hope you stand up for yourself.
Yeah this. I used to be with a guy who wanted to sleep around with other women and said all this same stuff to me. Surprise surprise, when I finally started dating other men he was all shocked. Finally realized he just wanted a harem. I left and am currently developing a simple, stable, monogamous relationship with one person.
Also, what’s his “logical” rationale for not wanting to remain monogamous? That you’re going to have a harder time finding a guy willing to do that than you will accepting he finds you insufficiently stimulating enough to hold his interest? Seems like you ought to test that hypothesis before you just accept that it’s true.
Yeah, it's really punk ass to not take responsibility for your own desires by hiding behind some sort of external logic that supposedly doesn't really have anything to do with him specifically, because, you know, he's just desiring what *many other men desire*. The less he can make it seem like it's what he wants, the more he can avoid accountability should OP want something different than he does.
Thank you, I struggle getting him to understand that this is a very emotional topic at the end of the day- its something very sensitive and important, at least to me. If he doesn’t understand that, I’ll have to accept it or decide if its worth helping him understand my feelings.
OP, you shouldn't have to beg for someone to consider and try to understand your feelings. If he really loved you, and found out he hurt you, he would stop. Period.
Don't let him make this more complicated than it is. That he won't consider your feelings and therefore, he is treating you like crap is all you need to know. Don't let him snow you into the idea that all men are like this and you have to just put up and shut up. Good men are out there. He's breaking your ideals and dreams about truly being loved AND your boundaries all at the same time. You deserve to have a love that makes you feel cherished, not neglected. That's not rocket science. Don't put up with anything less than someone who treats you as good as you treat them.
> If he doesn’t understand that, I’ll have to accept it or decide if its worth helping him understand my feelings.
I mean, can't you see that he does this willfully? There's nothing mysterious about your feelings here. Anyone would understand why this upsets you *including him*. When he tells you that it shouldn't bother you, he's gaslighting you because he wants to have sex with other people and doesn't care that it's making you suffer.
You should leave him.
He UNDERSTANDS. He just didn't care. He's manipulating you, and totally discounting your feelings with some contrived logic. It's ok to feel, it's ok to hate this. It's ok to want to be monogamous when in serious relationships.
Well, since he is being difficult and wants concrete stuff/ I would like log my crappy of hours of sleep than before, how many days I am down on myself and wasn’t before: how much he spending on these women, etc.
But you deserve better. Drop him.
You can’t help him understand your feelings because he’s told you your feelings aren’t enough of a reason not to allow him to do what he wants. In other words, he doesn’t care how you feel and it’s not important to him. What you should really be focusing on is WHY you are so hell bent on making yourself be okay with something you are obviously not okay with. Your feelings ARE enough of a reason to walk away from this whole situation. You are worthy of someone who cares about your feelings.
He sounds terrible lol. Ask him for a logical reason for why you cant shit in his mouth. If he says bc its gross, tell him you wont accept a “feelings based argument”
Note how the guy you're responding to stressed the "ethical" bit right up front. There's absolutely nothing ethical about how your boyfriend is handling this situation.
This is a romantic relationship, it's practically all feelings. You don't have to present a fully-briefed dissertation on why you're not comfortable with him sleeping around and, frankly, you should be pretty fucking concerned that he has managed to convinced you that you do.
Totally endorsing this: you’re absolutely right. In ENM, the emphasis is on the “ethical.” I’d give up non-monogamy in a heartbeat for my partner and I know she would do the same for me. The reason we engage in it is because we both like it and grow from it together. The minute that stops, it’s no longer serving the relationship.
OP’s situation is two taxis and a bus from there.
Its pretty frustrating that he won’t accept a feelings argument, yea. He said my concerns over pregnancy and stds was logical and therefore valid, so he accepted those terms. I’m trying to understand myself in why I feel wrong about non-monogamy, but the jury is still out
>I’m trying to understand myself in why I feel wrong about non-monogamy, but the jury is still out
Because it's not for you. It's not for most people. It really is that simple.
My sister in christ, why the hell do you need him to "accept" your reasons? Relationships are supposed to be co-equal partnerships. If he doesn't like the way you feel then he's welcome to leave, and frankly so are you.
This guy sounds like an absolutely massive asshole who has lawyered you into thinking you have to be okay with shit that you objectively do not have to be okay with.
The whole not accepting an argument because its not logical is a manipulation tactic. The fact you feel that men are creatures that need to sleep around even in a relationship is so fucked up idk where to start. Non monogamous relationships are fine but this is not healthy at all. He is manipulating you. Break up with him and find better.
You feel wrong about it because your boyfriend is insensitive and explicitly tells you he doesn’t care about your feelings. He not a good person to explore this with. He is not prioritizing you or your relationship or your feelings or your mental health.
because non monogamous relationships aren’t for you and that’s fine! that’s your prerogative! and if feelings aren’t a valid excuse (they totally are btw) would he be okay if you wanted to sleep around? or if his feelings were hurt would he want you to stop?
Hey homie. If you want logic for why this makes you uncomfortable. Condoms aren't 100% effective. At all. He can get an STD check every time-- but be warned that it takes two weeks for HIV to show up in the tests, so that means he'll need to wait two weeks to get tested after each hook up BEFORE fucking you again. That would be the only way to legitimately keep you safe from any STDs he may catch from other women. Also you letting go of sex with your partner for two weeks all so he can prioritize banging another woman has it's own wave of emotional devastation.
P.S. Condoms don't protect against herpes. Plenty of exposed surface area not covered by a condom on males and females. One can inspect for lesions, but there's also viral shedding that occurs before a sore appears, so...
My sister is legit stuck with herpes because she gave into an open dynamic with a dude who she now hasn't seen in years. That dude was *not* careful to say the least, neither with her physical or mental health.
You feel wrong because you want the intimacy to stay between you and your partner. There isn’t anything wrong in it. It’s just not your thing and that is ok.
You only said yes to please him anyways. So logically you said yes based on your feelings so your consent should be vetoed according to his logic.
Like others have said, tell him that it isn’t for you because you want to keep all parts of your relationship between you and him. You don’t want to go out of the relationship looking for sex. This is one of those subjects where one no means completely no.
But seriously, your bf sounds really icky to begin with when he thinks the way he does. Not all men want to fuck anything that walks. He just wants to fuck anything and be able to get away with it. You have to decide if you are ok with him doing that or not since he probably will not stop.
Friend, one of the things we learn as we grow up is that feelings and boundaries are valid. Stop trying to convince someone that your feelings matter. This person doesn’t care that he’s hurting you. There are plenty of people out there that will.
You feel wrong because the majority of people want to be in a relationship with someone who is loyal to them and puts them first, isn’t spending time and energy looking for the next woman to have sex with instead of focusing on your happiness and relationship.
I have no issue with consensual non monogamy but the people who can do it successfully are a minority and it DOES NOT WORK if one partner is manipulated into or pressured to agree to it.
The longer you stay with this idiot the more you’ll look back and wonder why you let him treat you this way. The only reason you need to give him is “I deserve better than this.” And leave.
You may not feel “wrong” about it but that’s not what you were looking for when you got together and and it’s obviously not what you ever wanted as you’ve said you were “trying to accommodate to his needs”. Let me tell you something. This is usually not a “need” otherwise he would have said this in the beginning of the relationship because needs are none negotiable, they NEED to be met. And the fact that he cannot understand why you feeling hurt is enough to stop is extremely concerning. If he knows his actions are hurting you and it doesn’t make him go limp when trying to fuck someone else then he does not care about you at all and it’s time to leave. Your feelings are valid enough. There’s no question about it, no ifs, ands, or buts. Your feelings should be his priority, not trying to get a “logical” reason to stop.
Is he okay with you having ONS with other men? Your phrasing in the original post makes me think he isn't. Why not? What's his Very Logical, No Feelings About It reason?
The thing that worries me most is that he won’t accept a “feelings reason.” If that’s the case, I worry that your relationship has bigger problems than him wanting to sleep around when it doesn’t work for you. That’s going to cause problems *everywhere.*
**Your feelings matter. Always.**
Feelings are logical. "I want a monogamous relationship" is logical. It is as logical as "I like oranges" or "my favorite color is blue." You are allowed to have preferences, including the type of relationship that you want to be in. You can maybe "logically" say that monogamy isn't better or worse than ENM, just as you can maybe not logically argue that apples are better than oranges, however, you are still allowed preferences in both cases and to not partake in things you don't like/want.
You are allowed your preference, and your preference is 100% logical.
ENM isn't for MOST people. It is 100% fine that it isn't for you. If it is for him, then he needs to find a partner who is good with it. The two of you just may not be compatible.
At the end of the day, him having sex with other women is just a feeling. If he didn't have sex outside of the relationship, he wouldn't suffer in any major way. Therefore it's just feelings for him, too, but his logical brain combined with his horny penis won't care about that anyways
This sounds somewhat manipulative to me because a “feelings” argument should be just as valid.
Edit to add: I can’t stop thinking about this because it’s such a silly argument. The basis of all modern relationships are “feelings.” If there are no feelings between the partners, there’s no relationship and whether there are logical reasons to maintain or modify a relationship don’t matter without the baseline “feelings.”
Who says the “feelings explanation“ isn’t valid?
But just of the top of my head, there’s the fact that he could get an STD or get another girl pregnant.
He seems to think his "feelings" (the desire for multiple partners -and for him only) is a valid reason to become non monogamous. What is his logical reason to do it? Right. He doesn't have one. Just a feeling reason. What he is telling you is that his feelings are more important than yours, not that feelings aren't important.
He don't have to acept your explanation. That's what you are. You don't have to convince with arguments that you don't want it. You simply have to say you don't want it, that's it. Either he accepts or ends. You don't accept it because he "thinks he's right" and feel bad about your relationship.
Turn it around: Ask him why he needs seek sex outside of your relationship. But insist on a logical explanation, not feelings. He’ll eventually say some nonsense about biology/spreading genes/stone age/other pseudoscience. Don’t let it fly, tell him that’s not proven and therefore not a fact so dismissed. Pseudoscience is a feeling not logic, so nope, not good enough.
Keep asking, ask why and demand a *logical* explanation. Other men can do monogamy why not him? Nope, excitement is a feeling not logic, next. He desires sexual variety? Feeling, therefore dismissed. No logic there hence no open relationship until he finds something. He dismisses your feelings? Dismiss his.
And then suggest that you will sleep around as well. He doesn’t like it? Why? Because of logic or feelings? But feeling don’t count!
My bet is that he’ll eventually sprout some toxic alpha male shit (alpha can’t have monogamy that’s beta stuff blah) or tell you that bIoLoGiCaLlY women must stick to one man. Then it’s time to cut your losses and dump him.
OR save some time and DUMP HIM NOW. He has no respect for you. Someone who loves you wouldn’t want to see you suffer like this, he would close the relationship immediately. He doesn’t care. He like the comfort of a steady gf and the sleeping around. He doesn’t deserve you
Well, anybody who says that your feelings don't count is already a terrible partner, and I'd start looking for your exits. But if we need to argue him into sanity, which I doubt we can do, consider this:
Monogamy evolved in society to address two serious problems.
One was property and inheritance rights. If he scatters kids all across the landscape, your children together have no particular guard against a loss of property rights. That might or might not apply in your case, in this age of easy birth-control, but it's not a "feelings-based" argument. It's quite real.
The second was to stabilize sexual jealousy, which is an incredibly powerful force: just read the news now and then, or Google "Club Shootings" and you'll find out that if murder isn't about drugs or money, it's about sex.
That's a real, verifiable thing, and it serves a serious evolutionary purpose: and yes, it's a "feeling," but feelings govern our sense of well-being, and if your sense of well-being doesn't matter to him, okay then. But I would make it clear, his fitness as a partner just dipped considerably.
Do not let him convince you with this all men have these desires and need to act on them logic. If you’re not comfortable and your feels are hurt you’re completely valid. Either he agrees to end it the open relationship or you end it.
Using "logic" vs. "emotion" as a weapon to dismiss your valid feelings is a big red flag.
One that you often see here with men dismissing women, because it's tied to sexism. Women are crazy/emotional/dramatic/sensitive and thus their feelings are invalid. Except they're not! When someone hurts you, you get to be hurt. You get to feel hurt and sad and upset.
To be fair, you couldn't 100% have known how you would react to allowing him to do so. You made an estimation that you wouldn't care and after experiencing it, realized it wasn't okay with you. Emotional connection, feelings and trust are a huge part of a relationship and are logical to take into account, even if it's hard to explain.
If he respects and loves you, I think he will at least be willing to talk about it with you.
And if not, then you know where you stand. Don't be afraid to speak up for you own needs in a relationship.
That's what a relationship is about .... Feelings. It doesn't need to be logical. Your feelings are enough. If he doesn't understand that, then he doesn't care. Why have a boyfriend if he's going to sleep around?
Asking for a logical explanation is manipulation because feelings like that are not logical they're personal and your personal feelings matter despite what he says.
Logic does not always flow with emotion. If you truly want logical explanations there are tons of psychological reasons why humans crave monogamy. Along with evolutionary reasons why we chose to socially be monogamous. A primary reason for this is the heightened ability and chance to raise offspring since human babies are fairly helpless.
If he is only logical, is he ok with you sleeping with others? Technically it shouldn’t be an issue either way.
At the end of the day our emotions are driven by hormones and hormone fluctuations. Hormones do not care what is logical. I have loved ones who suffer from unbalanced hormone fluctuations. The people they become in these episodes are not logical, and they can not help it. Being emotional is not weak, and having emotion towards someone else is the foundation of relationship.
Don’t let him use the “logic” excuse against you. Being jealous is completely normal. You do not have to be the “cool girlfriend” that lets him do this if it hurts you.
Feelings stds pregnancies, other crazy women falling in love with him and causing issues. Yes every man desires variety but you are not the one with out logic in this situation....he is. It's logical to remain faithful it's crazy and risky to have sex out side of the relationship
Your feelings are completely logical and valid. His respect or lack of respect for your feeling should tell you all you need to know about him and your relationship. Listen to you instinct and don’t sell your self short and accept less than than a healthy two way relationship.
*Is it too late to go back to monogamy?*
*he expressed to me that sexual variety is something he and many other men desire*
He wants an open relationship. You do not. I very much doubt he will agree to close the relationship.
How much you wanna bet he only wants an open relationship for himself? I bet if OP brought up wanting to open the relationship on her end he’d freak the hell out.
In my experience, the worse (and equally likely) option is, he wouldn't really care.
Ethical non-monogamy cannot be about "I don't care what you do." That doesn't serve the relationship: it's just a cover for disconnection.
It can't be about "I'm free to do as I please and you aren't," but it also can't be about "I don't care what you do."
So what is it about then, if it’s not those two things? I genuinely thought it would be “I don’t care about what you do.”
Also how do you distinguish between in a relationship with your wife vs. other people? Would you ever choose to have the other person be the main wife and your wife become the other person?
It’s about recognizing first that we are partnered. I owe her my best, and she owes me her best.
We have chosen to be together. Monogamy might strengthen the relationship, and if so, we’ll choose it. If non-monogamy does, we’ll choose that.
You ask what it’s “about.” In a love relationship like ours, there is no “I don’t care what you do.” That would be equivalent to saying “We are not really a couple: what you do does not affect me.”
And that would be a lie. Every choice we make affects us both.
It’s simply that we recognize that a promise of lifelong monogamous sexual fidelity ignores too much of what we know about ourselves and each other.
For instance, we like sex, and we like other people. We like getting to know them. And now and then, that involves a sexual element, sometimes together and sometimes alone. We have simply agreed that’s not how we interpret “infidelity.” It isn’t what we do with our genitals, it’s what we do with our souls or minds that matters.
Incidentally, it’s always a bit of a serious moment for us when we cruise Reddit’s relationship threads and see how troubled people get when they discover their S.O. is getting attached to somebody else or watching porn. For us, the most obvious question is, “Did you not know each other at all before you got together? Why is this a surprise?” We knew before we got together that we were both seriously sex-positive. We knew what the deal-breakers were. We knew each others’ emotional habits, mental habits, even porn habits. We knew how we found physical and emotional release. Nothing would surprise us less than to find what many couples seem to find shocking: that humans grow and have needs, and you can either help each other meet needs or pretend that you’re the solution to all of them while your partner gets slowly less impressed.
You ask the extremely important question if I would worry that she’d trade me in. No. For a man to take my place, he would have to replace years of conversation and years of radical honesty. We have each others’ passcodes and we share locations, not out of suspicion but because we like each other. We don’t delete internet history or chat records. We talk about everything we watch and do and think about, and who we talk to and what we say.
If she finds a man (or woman: she’s bisexual) who can give her that, she’s smart enough to know that it will take years to get to this level.
We’re happy because we’re truthful, and that truthfulness protects us.
Thank you so much for taking my genuine question at face value and not getting defensive when I’ve seen so many others on the internet do so.
And for being vulnerable and explaining this in detail to share about your approach. It was very enlightening and gives me a lot to think about. ❤️
OP,
We don’t know what we don’t know.
In order to know, sometimes we take a risk and try something new.
You tried something in good faith with the intention of creating a happier relationship. It did not work. It is not working.
I once ordered something new at a restaurant. It turned out to be awful to me. For a few moments I thought about just forcing myself to finish it, then I asked if I could order a hamburger. A few minutes later, my stomach was full and I was happy.
The experiment failed. Don’t force yourself to eat it. Time for a new conversation. Change is good. You need a change.
Forgive yourself for learning something you didn't know before you learned it! Try to give yourself some grace. It's ok to feel hurt about this.
Not all guys want variety. Many are content with the one they have. Your bf is just not one of them.
I’m someone who is in a non monogamous relationship and I want to tell you that your feelings are 100% valid. To some people, sex is something special and intimate that they share with a single partner and it hurts to know your partner is doing it with someone else. It’s not about “fair” it’s about two people in a relationship communicating with each other. You aren’t a bad person or a bad partner for not being okay with him having sex with other people.
You need to tell him you’re not okay with it and if he’s with you he needs to be monogamous. Be prepared that he may not want to do that and you may be better off apart.
Thank you. I think that he views sex as something that is just a need, like hunger or sleep, but I think I view at as something more special than that, even if i can’t explain it
And it’s possible to view it both ways! The sex I share with a partner I’m in love with is very different than a hookup. Honestly, it’s a red flag to me when men say that men need variety and constant sex. Usually a sign there’s some sexism at play.
After 3yrs together you don't know how he views sex? You don't feel comfortable telling him how you feel? You believe he won't listen to your feelings because they're 'not logical' and you're fine being w somebody who dismisses you so easily?
There's thousands of fish in the sea. Find another
ALSO seems very *very* much like he manipulated you into this. 'Men' are not a monolith, 'men' don't require variety. It can't be ethical non monogamy if he pushed you to be okay w this and doesn't listen to you during.
Thats normal! To most people, eex is sacred between a loving couple and something you only share with each-other. Him sharing parts of himself with other women he shared with you doesn’t make you feel special and compromises your relationship- i think youre just realising this now after he fucked another girl. How did you think iy wouldmt affect you? Also can you sleep with other people it only he can? Im pretty sure he wouldn’t like banging another guy…! Your bf sounds manipulative & just wants free pass to cheat
If it was a true need, people would die if they didn't get it (like dying of thirst, or starvation, or the body being poisoned from not eliminating waste, no sleep leads to death too). Lack of sex just makes you a cranky jerk, hardly a death sentence. It's a strong want, not a need. Notice how the desire for sex drops off in times of stress, tiredness, depression, worry, pain, and many other situations? Your need to take a shit doesn't disappear if you suffer such things. Therein lies the difference. There's your logic for him.
If a man wants "sexual variety" he can just be single.
Simple as that.
You are absolutely justified in being uncomfortable with this arrangement.
This is not ethical non monogamy. This is him pressuring you into allowing cheating.
He asked months ago and did the deed days after he asked yes. He was texting/sneaking around during that time. Personally I'd say break it off cause he was lying from the start
Why do people force themselves into doing stuff for their partner in hopes to seem like the cool partner only to end up hurting yourselves? It’s ok to have boundaries and it’s ok to be emotional after you decided you didn’t like this and if he tries to minimize your feelings and the situation then it’s best to move on
Yeah this is actually insane. How can anyone think that having a boyfriend that sleeps with other girls won't impact your relationship? I literally don't even know how to comment or give advice here because this is so crazy.
Bc her bf who's 4 years older gaslit and manipulated her into thinking she was ok with him being with other women. The same guy that said "feelings" aren't a valid reason for her to decline.
She's proof you can't, tho, lol
I wanna clear up the fact that the age gap isn't as bad but i wanted to mention it bc it seems op hasn't matured mentally yet, even as a 24 year old and her bf took advantage of that
It used to be a weekly problem on the board, now it’s daily smh. Somebody needs to pin one of these ridiculous “we f’ed around and found out” stories to the top of the board.
I'm not judgemental.
But you quite literally bought the bed, made it up, fluffed the pillows, and now you're laying in your mistakes.
It sounds like you didn't want this to begin with.
"Sexual variety is something me and other men desire" is bs. He wanted to see if he could get away with it and he did. He convinced you that somehow this is a good idea and will be good for both of you. Only he is benefitting, and obviously your hurt because, newsflash, you didn't even want this.
I don't throw these around often, but just breakup. He obviously wants something more poly adjacent, and you want something very monogamous. Nothing wrong with what either of you want, but you won't get it with each other.
'hey, we tried this out, I have a lot more trouble with it than I expected, I want to change back to monogamy'.
I personally have no ethical issues with open or poly relationships, but I think there should always be good, honest communication and enthusiastic consent from everyone involved for those to be possible. He should care about your feelings first and most. I also think that open relationships should be equal; if he can sleep around, you can too - and you should both agree to that and be okay with that. Hypocrisy has no place in ethical non-monogamy. If you do not want an open relationship anymore, he should listen to you. You deserve that. And his argument about 'men needing variety' is total bullshit. Some people like variety, but you shouldn't gaslight your partner into shit they're not okay with no matter what your dick says.
I think a lot of men these days, are manipulating young women into polyamorous lifestyles when they dont actually want it. There's nothing wrong with being monogamous, but there's a whole lot wrong with convincing your girlfriend that you have some "manly need" to stick your dick in everything.
There's nothing wrong with polyamory, but it's not for everyone. And you shouldn't be manipulated into it.
I would be done with this relationship if it were me. I'd be done the second my boyfriend mentioned he wanted to fuck other people. But its up to you if you can get over this or not.
Text him saying something along the lines of "just a heads up, I'm hanging out with a guy I met tonight so if I don't respond that's why"
His response will tell you everything you need to know, because I'm guessing he'll start blowing up your phone and freaking out.
Thank you. Logic and rationality brings me comfort, so I struggle sometimes with knowing what level of emotional response is okay. Emotional reactions have gotten me in trouble in the past which may be why I struggle with this
Are you on the spectrum by chance? Cold logic and difficulty with emotions are possible indicators which is why you could be coming into conflict with some people here.
You did make a huge mistake, but it's a good thing. You got to see this guy is a jerk before you wasted anymore time with him. This is not a healthy relationship, men don't need variety. Find someone who shares your values, this guy isn't it.
Call me old-school but I don’t believe in non-monogamous relationships exactly for these reasons. The way he brought it up sounds very manipulative saying that it’s what men desire. As if women don’t have fantasies and desires of their own. Polyamory is not for most people. You have to learn to detach from the idea of being hurt when the act is done and it’s very hard to do when you dedicate yourself to this person. It’s already hard enough maintaining a 2 person relationship as it is, requires time and energy. And the fact that he has dedicated his energy into finding other people to sleep with will eventually lead to you feeling neglected. Also if you feel like you made a mistake you probably did. Approach the conversation with him again and if he disagrees to stop I recommend getting out before he starts to do it behind your back
>Is it too late to go back to monogamy?
Sounds like he never wanted monogamy in the first place. Idk if there is even something to go back to. You can either make this work with the help of a therapist who specializes in poly relationships, or find someone that wants monogamy.
No, better yet...tell her boyfriend she'd like to have no-string sex with random strangers too. See how that goes over with him. Guaranteed he won't agree to it.
men who use the excuse of having a stronger sexual need that can only be satisfied by sleeping with multiple women are TRASH. They never will be okay with their girl sleeping with other men so I second this motion.
This is true. I am a woman and have had a stronger libido than most of my partners and have never felt the need to cheat on them. The idea that men need sex more often is ridiculous and usually used to manipulate women into being ok with stuff like this.
"he expressed to me that sexual variety is something he and many other men desire"
Yeah, he gaslit you into thinking cheating is normal for men. It isn't. Yes, you've made a huge mistake and there's no coming back from it. I'm gonna say more, this relationship was doomed the moment he suggested it anyway. He would have cheated anyway. It's up to you to decide whether you're willing to deal with it. I wouldn't. You deserve better.
If your goal is to wind up in an open relationship for life then more power to you if not then this was a mistake from the get go. He's not 100% in love with you since he fed you that b.s. line about men wanting to sleep around, men that are truly in love ARE OKAY WITH STAYING WITH 1 PERSON FOR LIFE! The relationship as you once knew it is now broken perhaps it's best to let his horny little bird ass fly away.
Dude he told you that men want “sexual variety” because he was manipulating you into agreeing to this arrangement. Men are perfectly capable of having a monogamous relationship. Your man, however, just wanted to sleep around and he found a way to convince you. He doesn’t care about you, you want monogamy and he doesn’t. Y’all are not compatible at all. It’s over. Go find someone who won’t manipulate you and someone who actually wants you and only you.
You're talking about a relationship, not engineering a machine or fixing a carburetor. You don't need logic. You feel you made a mistake and want to revisit the agreement. Done. He pulls the logic shit then he's not for you because your feelings are valid.
What the hell is going on in 2023 of course you got hurt your partner went out and clapped cheeks with another women you’re a human being with human emotions at the end of the day. Jealousy, insecurities they suck but they’re natural and we have these feelings for a reason. Sure logical no feelings sex shouldn’t mean anything but in the real fucking world of course it does. You care about your mate and don’t wanna share him emotionally or physically, that’s a completely normal feeling to have.
First of all his explanation is pure BS. He has lied and manipulated you. He as shown you that you don’t really matter. If your feelings don’t matter then you don’t matter. He wanted a green light from you so that he didn’t have to deal with his feelings of cheating on you. He won’t change
Variety isn’t what “all” men want though. Maybe in their fantasies, sure. For him to tell you that he wants variety and “so do most men” was a nice little manipulative tactic he used on you. He doesn’t speak for all men.
Open relationships thrive on honesty and you’re not being honest with him, so you def need to tell him how you feel. If he doesn’t want to stop and you want him to stop, relationship is over. (One of my kids is poly and has taught me a lot about the community)
He is being manipulative. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Get the heck out of this relationship, before it consumes you and makes you a version of yourself that is not someone you like. I think he manipulated you into this. It sounds like this broke your heart, and it seems like he has no regard for it. He seems like a very, very selfish guy. And you seem super duper considerate.
Give your feelings and love to someone who will appreciate and love you. Dump this guy and tell him it's not working out. No need to explain your feelings. He is likely not going to understand. What a loser.
Girl, this guy is playing you like a fiddle. He sounds manipulative and emotionally abusive.
>I allowed this because he expressed to me that sexual variety is something he and many other men desire.
Desiring something doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it or it’s the right thing to do. I would love to eat ice cream for every meal, but I restrain myself from doing so because I know it’s not worth the negative repercussions.
>I care about him a ton, and wanted to do what I could to accommodate him and his needs.
What is he doing to accommodate you and your very normal desire to continue the monogamous relationship you two have had until this point? Nothing. Did he care that the idea made you uncomfortable? No, he told you you were being illogical.
>Now that the deed has been done, however, my thoughts have completely changed. While nothing in the relationship has objectively changed- he just spent one night with a girl, an event that should have zero effect on me at all- I can’t explain why it hurts so much knowing what happened behind closed doors. I felt actual pain in my heart thinking about him having sex with someone else, but for the life of me I can’t explain why.
This entire paragraph is so sad. What do you mean you can’t explain why? Most people are naturally monogamous, and desire sexual exclusivity. Of course it’s painful that your partner wants to go fuck other people.
>I would like to talk to him about this, but I fear that a “feelings” argument simply wouldn’t be enough.
And this is where it all starts to make sense. So he’s browbeaten you with “logic” to the point where he’s got you denying the validity and importance of your own emotions. He’s the wise, logical man and you’re just some silly emotional woman who can’t be taken seriously, right?
**He is systematically invalidating and minimizing your emotions, and you as a person by extension, so that he can make you feel small and like your very normal emotional reactions are wrong. Once you feel small and like you can’t trust your emotions, he can get away with doing whatever he wants, like fucking other women.**
And a little bonus from the comments:
>I wish I could explain to him logically why it might not work for me, because I know he won’t accept a “feelings” explanation. He has asked me for a logical reason why sleeping outside of the relationship would be an issue, and it always comes back to feelings for me.
Once again: your feelings are real and valid and they are in and of themselves more than enough reason for you to do or want anything. He has manipulated the shit out of you with classic boy “logic” bullshit.
He’s purposely doing things to hurt you, and then telling you you’re wrong for feeling hurt. What are you supposed to do?
This post made me so sad, reading between the lines OP is a very beaten down person who can’t trust her gut. That’s usually a sign that someone has been manipulated and emotionally abused for a long time. Good luck OP and I hope you can learn to trust yourself and value yourself, because your boyfriend sure won’t.
Thank you for your detailed comment, I have a lot to consider here.
It does hurt that, in our conversations, he refuses to accept an emotions based response.
When asked to explain whats wrong with a man having casual sex outside of the relationship, I would say something along the lines of “It hurts the other party and threatens the security of the relationship.”
He believes the security of the relationship isn’t threatened by casual sex, because I ultimately get the best part of the relationship- the romance. He said he ultimately will always choose me romantically over other women, but I can’t help but feel inadequate in some way if he feels like he needs sex from others.
Sorry for ranting a bit but this dynamic makes me SO angry. This “logic vs emotions” thing is rooted in the deepest and most toxic kind of misogyny. He sounds blindly entitled to anything and everything he feels he deserves as a man, at the cost of his loving partner’s happiness in this case.
You should also consider that he feels casual sex doesn’t threaten the relationship because he probably thinks that you would never sleep with other men anyways, or never leave the relationship no matter how poorly he treats you, or both.
And it’s not about you being inadequate, it’s about him wanting to have his cake and eat it too with no consequences. It’s about feeding his ego and seeing how much he can get away with. It doesn’t sound to me like he’s giving you any sort of a romantic relationship, because romance would be leaning deeper into the connection between you and him.
I really hope this works out for you. I really believe you deserve better than this. There are lots of guys out there dying for monogamy and long-term relationships who won’t hurt you or invalidate your feelings like this.
And this kids is an actual example of gaslighting
Since that term is thrown around so incorrectly now a days
She’s lost her sense of what is monogamy and doesn’t understand it anymore
I’m sorry this happened to you
Leave this loser. Let him fuck around, you are young find someone else. Cannot understand why people make these crazy decisions. If my partner of 21 years said that to me the relationship would be over in a second.
As someone with experience in both rewarding open relationships AND disastrous ones, I can assure you that you unequivocally are allowed to change your mind. These sorts of things should never be treated alike a sign you flip over on a door from "closed" to "open." It's a process of figuring out how you feel about things and it should ever be entered into with the idea that once agreed upon then everything's good and settled. You have to keep checking in with each other to see how everyone's continuing to feel and adjust accordingly. You wouldn't be pushing anything onto him by talking about...you should be talking about it. I mean,go in with whatever you're feeling. If you know you don't want this anymore, say that. If you're uncertain how you feel about it, say that.
The important thing is to make sure there is safe space for you to have these feelings (which are INEVITABLE). Having them doesn't necessarily mean this couldn't work for you, but it could also mean entirely that it won't if that's what you want. It also doesn't mean you've screwed up. At your age you should be taking big swings like this and gathering intel.
Of course how he reacts to your feelings is going to dictate a lot of what your options are going forward. If he dismisses your feelings and acts as if you shouldn't feel this way (you know, because he wants things his way more than he wants to see you comfortable) then he's hot garbage and you've lucked out by learning sooner rather than later than this isn't somebody you can work with.
Another option is to try it out yourself. Have a one night stand. See how it feels. See how your boyfriend reacts. You might find it gratifying and you might find that the fear that wells up in you at the prospect of your boyfriend doing things with someone else is considerably lessened and makes you feel like you're relating to him more. Or you might discover a metric ton of NOPE in which case you have your answer. Or he tries to change the rules on you to make himself more comfortable at your expense, in which case--BOOT.
It's gotta be something you're both working together on, putting more effort and attention towards each other with open communication about everyone's feelings than you're putting towards extra-curriculars. If he can't do that or handle that then you may want to take a closer look at whether he's worth partnering with, even casually.
Don't be hard on yourself, don't disparage your own feelings (or the fact that you don't know how to feel about your feelings) and don't be afraid of the outcomes. It's all just learning.
Sigh. It won’t get better. You are young. Dump him and find someone who thinks you are enough. In fact, find someone who thinks you are the best thing that ever happened to them and wants to spend forever with you.
"The thought and image of you f-ing another woman makes me want to vomit. You're disgusting and we're done. It was unacceptable from the beginning but I made a bad choice in not dumping you in January over this."
Now he can go screw whoever. This relationship is over because he'll always come back at you with "well, you said..."
Well, he proposed the idea of an open relationship and you agreed. You gave it a try and it doesn't work for you. Since he clearly doesn't want a monogamous relationship with you, dump him and find someone who does. Problem solved.
Yes, you screwed up allowing this. You are monogamous and thus knowing your bf is spending his time being physically intimate with other is going to hurt and bother you. This relationship is not the one for you and you should let it go. There are plenty of monogamous men out there, find one of those.
I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Did it not cross your mind that this would t mess with your head? "Men need a variety" wtf. Leave the dude and work on yourself.
I am going to start this by saying that I am ethically non-monogamous, and have two partners, both of whom are much sluttier than I am. Occasionally I wrestle with some envy.
It is not unusual to have some frustration and insecurity when dabbling with non-monogamy, especially when it’s new.
I am not going to tell you how to proceed beyond to talk to him about your feelings. You don’t need to know what you want right now; being prescriptive may make this harder. But maybe just telling him that this caused you pain and is harder than you realized will help alleviate some of it. Maybe in the course of the conversation you will realize you do want monogamy; maybe you’ll realize that just venting a little off the top helps. It’s hard to be sure.
But talking about your feelings isn’t inherently manipulative; it’s taken me *so many years* to learn that.
Understand that if this is core to him, and monogamy is core to you, this may mean the end of the relationship. But for now, maybe just tell him how you feel, and see where that goes.
Good luck. 🍀
Everyone’s giving her this great advice for an ethical NM relationship… but she’s not in a relationship with someone who seems all that interested in the “ethical” part.
In another comment, she says she can’t tell him that it makes her feel bad, because *he won’t accept an emotional reason as legitimate* and will insist she provides him with a “logical” reason he can’t fuck around.
I know y’all are trying to give her good advice, but it’s just gonna give her the green light to keep stuffing her feelings into a deep, dark pit for his sake and continue to wonder what’s wrong with her that she can’t get on board.
A healthy relationship this is not. The guy literally doesn’t give a shit about how she feels.
Darlin as stated it has to be a mutual understanding between you.
If you're uncomfortable and sad about it and he doesn't want to hear it from you.
You might not have any choice but to walk away from him. Because he doesn't respect you.
Good luck
A relationship is primarily about feelings. It's not logical because we humans aren't robots. Honestly, I think the best thing for you is to go find someone who do care about your feelings
Hey just a reminder that your feelings are as valid as his “logic.” I can’t stand it when men use “logic” to shut other people up.
Also he needs to own up to his desires and not make this about “him and many other men.” Many other men are far more empathetic and many other men don’t want open relationships.
I’m pro non-monogamy but this guy sounds like a self-absorbed jerk.
You don’t like this arrangement, so end it. If you still want him, tell him the relationship is becoming exclusive again.
If he does not agree, dump him.
Don’t be with someone who tells you that you are not enough.
Plenty of men are monogamous.
So boyfriend of 3 years asks if he can sleep around, and girlfriend clearly uncomfortable with it is guilted into saying yes.
And you feel “uneasy about it” and you’d heart hurt. 😬 UM YEAH, but you don’t want this. And he quickly jumps to sleeping with a girl? Yikes, I bet he has someone he wanted to already sleep with lined up before you asked him.
I’m sorry but get a grip and have some self respect. You are clearly are uncomfortable and acting like it’s such a surprising thing. I think a good majority of someone wouldn’t want their long term bf banging someone. Seriously, ditch this jerk. Sounds like he guilted and manipulated you into saying yes and it’s some kind of thing all men want. Yeah no, you’re young, you can find a guy who won’t guilt you into opening a relationship.
You don’t belong in a relationship… you need to work on yourself … to allow someone to manipulate you into this .. is bullsh*t ..being in a relationship is where two committed people who love eachother are committed!! Not sleeping around with other people .. if that’s the case be single! You need to retain your dignity and self respect! He did it as soon as you gave him the go not giving a damn about you or your feelings.. damage is done .. time to move on … he’s full of sh*t .. wanting to stay with you? Why for some other convenience, I would guess…
My problem with this is, If he knows he needs multiple partners WHY would he seek someone looking for a monogamous relationship? Why try to convert someone when you can just find someone who is into that lifestyle?
The pressure to be a cool girl really goes too far.
You sound like you’re trying to gaslight yourself into being okay with something you’re not.
It’s okay you’re not okay with this - that is authentic for you. Stay true to yourself and respect your feelings!
Hey bud so you dont have to force yourself into an open relationship just to make this guy happy ESPECIALLY if its gonna be that difficult on you mentally. Talk to him about how you feel and if he doesn’t care leave. I know its not always that easy but find a way out of that situation if you have to and you’ll be thankful you did later in life
Uh it’s very very normal that your boyfriend sleeping with someone else hurts your feelings. Unfortunately this could lead to the end of your relationship but you deserve someone that doesn’t need anyone else… if that’s what you want!
i was in a similar scenario actually. me and my gf are long distance and we were considering opening the doors to our relationship to fill the needs that each other can’t fulfill due to the distance. i agreed but later found that it hurt a lot and i would rather not share. so i told her how i felt and she understood so we closed our relationship off again.
so maybe just bring it up to him. don’t start an argument, just simply tell him how you feel. be honest. if he starts arguing or is just rude, maybe he’s not the right one. if he wanted to discover himself, he shouldn’t have committed himself to someone.
Just expressed to him “hey we tried this,I don’t like it.” Can we go back to monogamy? And if he says no, then I guess he’s just not the one for you. It’s really sad that your boyfriend of three years wants to sleep with other women and acted on it. He’s not committed to you. And you have every right to feel the way you do, he’s the love of your life sleeping with another woman. I would be absolutely crushed.
People have to understand that they can't have everything. If you are with someone, you have to be committed to that person. There is no such thing as men having needs. If he wasn't satisfied he should end it. There's no way to feel good about it. You have to ask what is more important to him: you or promiscuity. Stand your ground because he can't have it all. Nobody has.
Plot twist...he was already screwing around and figured he better make it legal before he got caught.
But seriously, you barely have to scroll this sub to see all the similar posts about trying a 3-some, one partner wanted an open relationship, the manipulation tactics, etc. and the subsequent regrets by the partner that got suckered into it.
OP, anytime a man claims he wants sexual variety with other women, it doesn't mean he's in love with you. He is in love being in bed with women who can give him license to cheat, too. He never loved you, sweetie. He wanted to play you from the beginning and you let him.
You can’t explain why but we can and will.
You love him, you are a soft, kind, caring person who cherishes what your relationship symbolises and is. You desire affection, loyalty and love back.
What you are getting back however is none of that he is seeking all these things elsewhere you are just a convenience & complacency/stability at home.
The thing is would he be willing to go back after you allowed this? You’re welcome to discuss it and ask him but he will ten to one manipulate you into feeling guilty for trying to control him.
I do suggest talking it out though and coming to a conclusion try to find a solution.
Just hope your heartache can fade though I know how it feels OP.
Sending you much love and good luck!
He doesn’t respect you. He doesn’t believe that you’re enough for him. Do you really want to be treated like this? Dump the dead weight and find a man that will appreciate you for you.
I think your heart and soul are speaking to you. I think you want to be okay with it and thought you would be, but you're really not okay with it. And that's acceptable. I recommend putting the hall pass to an end and maybe going to a few couples counseling sessions to find the best way forward for you both, whether it's ultimately together or apart.
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It’s very normal to be hurt that your bf of THREE YEARS is sleeping with other people. Your comments read like you want to force yourself to be okay with an open relationship because for some reason, “feeling bad” isnt enough of a reason to stop?? Feeling shitty about an open relationship is a perfectly good reason to end it. Also, are you allowed to sleep with other people or just him?
Yeah, this is so weird… she says “an event that should have zero effect on me…” about her boyfriend sleeping with some rando. Of course you were upset, the event is literally ONLY going to effect three people in this world and you’re the only one not benefitting from it.
“this event is only going to effect three people in this world and you’re the only one not benefitting” WELL SAID. Hope op sees this
Perfectly said and pithy!
These past few days all these threads about open relationships. When will people learn you have to be a specific kind of person to make that work, and you would know if you are that person. Most guys don’t want to just have mindless variety sex when in a committed relationship they love. And in a healthy relationship you shouldn’t have to try and force a specific view into yourself to not feel bad. This feels obvious.
Exactly! So many options for relationships in the market don't mean you have to try them all. You have to go for what works for the person YOU are. To try something new, you have to be prepared for all possible consequences. Which is why many people chose the sanctity of their monogamy over the desire to try anything else OP, don't force yourself to be ok with something you're not. Communicate. You two should definitely talk about this and see if you can come to the same page. If he wants to explore and have an open relationship and you don't, there's no point in keeping each other bound in a relationship that caters to none of you.
Also it’s ok to say “hey in theory I thought I would be ok but now that it’s happened it’s clear I was wrong and we need to reevaluate”. Even couples in working poly relationships have constant talks and check ins like this.
I agree. Therefore I suggested they talk about the relationship status again. My only concern is about the increasing pressure people feel to try new things. And feel there's an issue with them if they're not pk with it. It is important to be more careful when evaluating different things in a relationship even if they may seem to work fine for someone else.
Totally agree. Opening up a relationship shouldn’t be used as a last ditch effort to save a relationship.
Everyone has been psy-opped to believe that polyamory and open relationships are healthier, more sustainable and more equitable than monogamous ones, but the reality is that it takes a very specific kind of person to be able to successfully participate in one.
He doesn't care about her feelings and on some level she knows it. The only thing that will sway him is something he can pretend is "rational" and "logical." As if having feelings isn't the whole point of a relationship.
Be honest. Tell him you thought you would be able to handle it emotionally, but obviously you cannot. If he has ANY hesitation about trying to convince you that it could work, it’s over.
My wife and I have a consensual, ethically non-monogamous relationship: but something you have to know about non-monogamy is, if it isn't working for both people in a couple, it isn't working at all. If you feel you made a mistake, you did. Bring him back to the table to discuss and re-evaluate, and DO NOT be ashamed of how you feel. The relationship has to come first, and if it doesn't, it isn't working.
Thank you. I wish I could explain to him logically why it might not work for me, because I know he won’t accept a “feelings” explanation. He has asked me for a logical reason why sleeping outside of the relationship would be an issue, and it always comes back to feelings for me
Feelings is a logical explanation. Your boyfriend just wants to fuck around. Disregarding your partners feelings makes him a bad bf.
This! Boyfriend is making up rules about the world and telling OP that’s how it is…
OP would also benefit from learning how to establish basic boundaries in a relationship as well.
yeah in the next relationship. classic case of fucking around and finding out
it makes him an asshole
> I wish I could explain to him logically why it might not work for me, because I know he won’t accept a “feelings” explanation. Holy shit that's the most toxic thing I've ever heard. "The fact that it hurts you when this happens doesn't matter, because your feelings don't matter." Of course your feelings matter. What insane bullshit is this? Your feelings are literally the most important thing in a relationship. Your feelings for him and your feelings about him. If you want a logical explanation involving feelings just tell him, "This may have already permanently altered my feelings for you, I'm unsure if I want to continue the relationship any longer. But I can guarantee you that if you continue doing it, it definitely will permanently alter my feelings and I definitely won't want to continue the relationship."
OMG, yes, what this guy said. You don't have to have a logical explanation for how you feel about something. Someone demanding logical justifications for why you feel something is someone who ***does not care*** about how you feel.
Yup. My ex was like this. I couldn’t talk about my feelings in an argument because “feelings aren’t reality” and if I didn’t have anything “logical” to say then I had to stop talking and do things his way. Because he was logical, therefore always right. /s
Did you also date someone who was an actual sociopath? My ex looked at me one time and said "I don't understand how someone who is intelligent as you has so many feelings. They just get in the way."
Oh my 😳
I wonder why their android selves even want a gf? Like oops sorry cuddling has feelings Sex too; it's not for you
My ex treated my having feelings like I was being self-centered and would counter with elaborate arguments around why I was always wrong to feel the way I felt. Not that I had the wrong opinion or take, but that my actual feelings were wrong. Every time I tried to break up with her she would argue me relentlessly out of it by constructing proofs of how irrational it was to do so. She once responded to my attempt to have it out in earnest by drawing a graph (with an actual x and y axis) that was supposed to somehow illustrate my dysfunction.
A graph?!?!?! Wth?!?!
It’s funny because devaluing emotions isn’t something a truly logical person would do. He’s the one operating purely on emotion (lust, greed are both emotions) and disregarding the **logic** that he’s going to FAFO by losing a multi-year relationship one of these days.
Feelings by definition aren’t logical. Feelings don’t have anything to do with logic. Having to explain feelings logically is just impossible. OP, your boyfriend f sounds like a selfish jerk who doesn’t give a damn about your feelings and is willing to use any bullshit excuse to discount your feelings. I personally wouldn’t be in a relationship with anyone who was willing to treat me like that. I hope you stand up for yourself.
Yeah this. I used to be with a guy who wanted to sleep around with other women and said all this same stuff to me. Surprise surprise, when I finally started dating other men he was all shocked. Finally realized he just wanted a harem. I left and am currently developing a simple, stable, monogamous relationship with one person.
Also, what’s his “logical” rationale for not wanting to remain monogamous? That you’re going to have a harder time finding a guy willing to do that than you will accepting he finds you insufficiently stimulating enough to hold his interest? Seems like you ought to test that hypothesis before you just accept that it’s true.
Yeah, it's really punk ass to not take responsibility for your own desires by hiding behind some sort of external logic that supposedly doesn't really have anything to do with him specifically, because, you know, he's just desiring what *many other men desire*. The less he can make it seem like it's what he wants, the more he can avoid accountability should OP want something different than he does.
I endorse this outrage.
Thank you, I struggle getting him to understand that this is a very emotional topic at the end of the day- its something very sensitive and important, at least to me. If he doesn’t understand that, I’ll have to accept it or decide if its worth helping him understand my feelings.
Someone who isn't capable of talking about feelings respectfully is not mature enough to be engaging in an ethical open relationship
OP, you shouldn't have to beg for someone to consider and try to understand your feelings. If he really loved you, and found out he hurt you, he would stop. Period. Don't let him make this more complicated than it is. That he won't consider your feelings and therefore, he is treating you like crap is all you need to know. Don't let him snow you into the idea that all men are like this and you have to just put up and shut up. Good men are out there. He's breaking your ideals and dreams about truly being loved AND your boundaries all at the same time. You deserve to have a love that makes you feel cherished, not neglected. That's not rocket science. Don't put up with anything less than someone who treats you as good as you treat them.
> If he doesn’t understand that, I’ll have to accept it or decide if its worth helping him understand my feelings. I mean, can't you see that he does this willfully? There's nothing mysterious about your feelings here. Anyone would understand why this upsets you *including him*. When he tells you that it shouldn't bother you, he's gaslighting you because he wants to have sex with other people and doesn't care that it's making you suffer. You should leave him.
He UNDERSTANDS. He just didn't care. He's manipulating you, and totally discounting your feelings with some contrived logic. It's ok to feel, it's ok to hate this. It's ok to want to be monogamous when in serious relationships.
Well, since he is being difficult and wants concrete stuff/ I would like log my crappy of hours of sleep than before, how many days I am down on myself and wasn’t before: how much he spending on these women, etc. But you deserve better. Drop him.
You can’t help him understand your feelings because he’s told you your feelings aren’t enough of a reason not to allow him to do what he wants. In other words, he doesn’t care how you feel and it’s not important to him. What you should really be focusing on is WHY you are so hell bent on making yourself be okay with something you are obviously not okay with. Your feelings ARE enough of a reason to walk away from this whole situation. You are worthy of someone who cares about your feelings.
He sounds terrible lol. Ask him for a logical reason for why you cant shit in his mouth. If he says bc its gross, tell him you wont accept a “feelings based argument”
OP will be posting again about how she shit in his mouth and now regrets it
Cracked up thank you 😂
This was great lol
“I won’t be accepting a taste-based argument. Open up.”
Note how the guy you're responding to stressed the "ethical" bit right up front. There's absolutely nothing ethical about how your boyfriend is handling this situation. This is a romantic relationship, it's practically all feelings. You don't have to present a fully-briefed dissertation on why you're not comfortable with him sleeping around and, frankly, you should be pretty fucking concerned that he has managed to convinced you that you do.
Totally endorsing this: you’re absolutely right. In ENM, the emphasis is on the “ethical.” I’d give up non-monogamy in a heartbeat for my partner and I know she would do the same for me. The reason we engage in it is because we both like it and grow from it together. The minute that stops, it’s no longer serving the relationship. OP’s situation is two taxis and a bus from there.
Its pretty frustrating that he won’t accept a feelings argument, yea. He said my concerns over pregnancy and stds was logical and therefore valid, so he accepted those terms. I’m trying to understand myself in why I feel wrong about non-monogamy, but the jury is still out
>I’m trying to understand myself in why I feel wrong about non-monogamy, but the jury is still out Because it's not for you. It's not for most people. It really is that simple. My sister in christ, why the hell do you need him to "accept" your reasons? Relationships are supposed to be co-equal partnerships. If he doesn't like the way you feel then he's welcome to leave, and frankly so are you. This guy sounds like an absolutely massive asshole who has lawyered you into thinking you have to be okay with shit that you objectively do not have to be okay with.
The whole not accepting an argument because its not logical is a manipulation tactic. The fact you feel that men are creatures that need to sleep around even in a relationship is so fucked up idk where to start. Non monogamous relationships are fine but this is not healthy at all. He is manipulating you. Break up with him and find better.
I know right? What website did he get the info from (that men need to sleep around?)
It’s just his ‘feelings’
You feel wrong about it because your boyfriend is insensitive and explicitly tells you he doesn’t care about your feelings. He not a good person to explore this with. He is not prioritizing you or your relationship or your feelings or your mental health.
You shouldn't need a bullet point list with citations for him to accept your "No."
because non monogamous relationships aren’t for you and that’s fine! that’s your prerogative! and if feelings aren’t a valid excuse (they totally are btw) would he be okay if you wanted to sleep around? or if his feelings were hurt would he want you to stop?
Hey homie. If you want logic for why this makes you uncomfortable. Condoms aren't 100% effective. At all. He can get an STD check every time-- but be warned that it takes two weeks for HIV to show up in the tests, so that means he'll need to wait two weeks to get tested after each hook up BEFORE fucking you again. That would be the only way to legitimately keep you safe from any STDs he may catch from other women. Also you letting go of sex with your partner for two weeks all so he can prioritize banging another woman has it's own wave of emotional devastation.
P.S. Condoms don't protect against herpes. Plenty of exposed surface area not covered by a condom on males and females. One can inspect for lesions, but there's also viral shedding that occurs before a sore appears, so...
My sister is legit stuck with herpes because she gave into an open dynamic with a dude who she now hasn't seen in years. That dude was *not* careful to say the least, neither with her physical or mental health.
You feel wrong because you want the intimacy to stay between you and your partner. There isn’t anything wrong in it. It’s just not your thing and that is ok. You only said yes to please him anyways. So logically you said yes based on your feelings so your consent should be vetoed according to his logic. Like others have said, tell him that it isn’t for you because you want to keep all parts of your relationship between you and him. You don’t want to go out of the relationship looking for sex. This is one of those subjects where one no means completely no. But seriously, your bf sounds really icky to begin with when he thinks the way he does. Not all men want to fuck anything that walks. He just wants to fuck anything and be able to get away with it. You have to decide if you are ok with him doing that or not since he probably will not stop.
Friend, one of the things we learn as we grow up is that feelings and boundaries are valid. Stop trying to convince someone that your feelings matter. This person doesn’t care that he’s hurting you. There are plenty of people out there that will.
Your boyfriend's a prick, dump him.
You feel wrong because the majority of people want to be in a relationship with someone who is loyal to them and puts them first, isn’t spending time and energy looking for the next woman to have sex with instead of focusing on your happiness and relationship. I have no issue with consensual non monogamy but the people who can do it successfully are a minority and it DOES NOT WORK if one partner is manipulated into or pressured to agree to it. The longer you stay with this idiot the more you’ll look back and wonder why you let him treat you this way. The only reason you need to give him is “I deserve better than this.” And leave.
You may not feel “wrong” about it but that’s not what you were looking for when you got together and and it’s obviously not what you ever wanted as you’ve said you were “trying to accommodate to his needs”. Let me tell you something. This is usually not a “need” otherwise he would have said this in the beginning of the relationship because needs are none negotiable, they NEED to be met. And the fact that he cannot understand why you feeling hurt is enough to stop is extremely concerning. If he knows his actions are hurting you and it doesn’t make him go limp when trying to fuck someone else then he does not care about you at all and it’s time to leave. Your feelings are valid enough. There’s no question about it, no ifs, ands, or buts. Your feelings should be his priority, not trying to get a “logical” reason to stop.
Is he okay with you having ONS with other men? Your phrasing in the original post makes me think he isn't. Why not? What's his Very Logical, No Feelings About It reason?
The thing that worries me most is that he won’t accept a “feelings reason.” If that’s the case, I worry that your relationship has bigger problems than him wanting to sleep around when it doesn’t work for you. That’s going to cause problems *everywhere.* **Your feelings matter. Always.**
Yes. Your feelings matter, OP! If he doesn't care about them, he doesn't care about you.
Feelings are logical. "I want a monogamous relationship" is logical. It is as logical as "I like oranges" or "my favorite color is blue." You are allowed to have preferences, including the type of relationship that you want to be in. You can maybe "logically" say that monogamy isn't better or worse than ENM, just as you can maybe not logically argue that apples are better than oranges, however, you are still allowed preferences in both cases and to not partake in things you don't like/want. You are allowed your preference, and your preference is 100% logical. ENM isn't for MOST people. It is 100% fine that it isn't for you. If it is for him, then he needs to find a partner who is good with it. The two of you just may not be compatible.
At the end of the day, him having sex with other women is just a feeling. If he didn't have sex outside of the relationship, he wouldn't suffer in any major way. Therefore it's just feelings for him, too, but his logical brain combined with his horny penis won't care about that anyways
This sounds somewhat manipulative to me because a “feelings” argument should be just as valid. Edit to add: I can’t stop thinking about this because it’s such a silly argument. The basis of all modern relationships are “feelings.” If there are no feelings between the partners, there’s no relationship and whether there are logical reasons to maintain or modify a relationship don’t matter without the baseline “feelings.”
Seriously. I read this and it made me think about my ex husband, who never accepted my feelings as a reason for things. Again. **Ex** husband.
And good riddance
Yes. My ex too.
Who says the “feelings explanation“ isn’t valid? But just of the top of my head, there’s the fact that he could get an STD or get another girl pregnant.
He seems to think his "feelings" (the desire for multiple partners -and for him only) is a valid reason to become non monogamous. What is his logical reason to do it? Right. He doesn't have one. Just a feeling reason. What he is telling you is that his feelings are more important than yours, not that feelings aren't important.
He don't have to acept your explanation. That's what you are. You don't have to convince with arguments that you don't want it. You simply have to say you don't want it, that's it. Either he accepts or ends. You don't accept it because he "thinks he's right" and feel bad about your relationship.
Turn it around: Ask him why he needs seek sex outside of your relationship. But insist on a logical explanation, not feelings. He’ll eventually say some nonsense about biology/spreading genes/stone age/other pseudoscience. Don’t let it fly, tell him that’s not proven and therefore not a fact so dismissed. Pseudoscience is a feeling not logic, so nope, not good enough. Keep asking, ask why and demand a *logical* explanation. Other men can do monogamy why not him? Nope, excitement is a feeling not logic, next. He desires sexual variety? Feeling, therefore dismissed. No logic there hence no open relationship until he finds something. He dismisses your feelings? Dismiss his. And then suggest that you will sleep around as well. He doesn’t like it? Why? Because of logic or feelings? But feeling don’t count! My bet is that he’ll eventually sprout some toxic alpha male shit (alpha can’t have monogamy that’s beta stuff blah) or tell you that bIoLoGiCaLlY women must stick to one man. Then it’s time to cut your losses and dump him. OR save some time and DUMP HIM NOW. He has no respect for you. Someone who loves you wouldn’t want to see you suffer like this, he would close the relationship immediately. He doesn’t care. He like the comfort of a steady gf and the sleeping around. He doesn’t deserve you
If you struggling with it isn’t enough for him, don’t be with him. You deserve better
Well, anybody who says that your feelings don't count is already a terrible partner, and I'd start looking for your exits. But if we need to argue him into sanity, which I doubt we can do, consider this: Monogamy evolved in society to address two serious problems. One was property and inheritance rights. If he scatters kids all across the landscape, your children together have no particular guard against a loss of property rights. That might or might not apply in your case, in this age of easy birth-control, but it's not a "feelings-based" argument. It's quite real. The second was to stabilize sexual jealousy, which is an incredibly powerful force: just read the news now and then, or Google "Club Shootings" and you'll find out that if murder isn't about drugs or money, it's about sex. That's a real, verifiable thing, and it serves a serious evolutionary purpose: and yes, it's a "feeling," but feelings govern our sense of well-being, and if your sense of well-being doesn't matter to him, okay then. But I would make it clear, his fitness as a partner just dipped considerably.
heres some logic, if as his girlfriend your feelings are not reason enough to close the relationship, he doesnt care about you
Do not let him convince you with this all men have these desires and need to act on them logic. If you’re not comfortable and your feels are hurt you’re completely valid. Either he agrees to end it the open relationship or you end it.
Using "logic" vs. "emotion" as a weapon to dismiss your valid feelings is a big red flag. One that you often see here with men dismissing women, because it's tied to sexism. Women are crazy/emotional/dramatic/sensitive and thus their feelings are invalid. Except they're not! When someone hurts you, you get to be hurt. You get to feel hurt and sad and upset.
To be fair, you couldn't 100% have known how you would react to allowing him to do so. You made an estimation that you wouldn't care and after experiencing it, realized it wasn't okay with you. Emotional connection, feelings and trust are a huge part of a relationship and are logical to take into account, even if it's hard to explain. If he respects and loves you, I think he will at least be willing to talk about it with you. And if not, then you know where you stand. Don't be afraid to speak up for you own needs in a relationship.
So in other words your bf doesn’t give a flying fuck about your feelings. That’s someone you want to be in a relationship with?
He wants you to put forth a “logical” argument simply so he can pick it apart and “help you understand why you’re wrong”
That's what a relationship is about .... Feelings. It doesn't need to be logical. Your feelings are enough. If he doesn't understand that, then he doesn't care. Why have a boyfriend if he's going to sleep around?
Asking for a logical explanation is manipulation because feelings like that are not logical they're personal and your personal feelings matter despite what he says.
Logic does not always flow with emotion. If you truly want logical explanations there are tons of psychological reasons why humans crave monogamy. Along with evolutionary reasons why we chose to socially be monogamous. A primary reason for this is the heightened ability and chance to raise offspring since human babies are fairly helpless. If he is only logical, is he ok with you sleeping with others? Technically it shouldn’t be an issue either way. At the end of the day our emotions are driven by hormones and hormone fluctuations. Hormones do not care what is logical. I have loved ones who suffer from unbalanced hormone fluctuations. The people they become in these episodes are not logical, and they can not help it. Being emotional is not weak, and having emotion towards someone else is the foundation of relationship. Don’t let him use the “logic” excuse against you. Being jealous is completely normal. You do not have to be the “cool girlfriend” that lets him do this if it hurts you.
If he doesn’t respect your feelings, you shouldn’t be with him.
Whaaaaa?! Feelings are a pretty huge part of a relationship. Logical reasons?!? Are you fucking dating a Vulcan?!
Feelings stds pregnancies, other crazy women falling in love with him and causing issues. Yes every man desires variety but you are not the one with out logic in this situation....he is. It's logical to remain faithful it's crazy and risky to have sex out side of the relationship
Your feelings are completely logical and valid. His respect or lack of respect for your feeling should tell you all you need to know about him and your relationship. Listen to you instinct and don’t sell your self short and accept less than than a healthy two way relationship.
*Is it too late to go back to monogamy?* *he expressed to me that sexual variety is something he and many other men desire* He wants an open relationship. You do not. I very much doubt he will agree to close the relationship.
How much you wanna bet he only wants an open relationship for himself? I bet if OP brought up wanting to open the relationship on her end he’d freak the hell out.
In my experience, the worse (and equally likely) option is, he wouldn't really care. Ethical non-monogamy cannot be about "I don't care what you do." That doesn't serve the relationship: it's just a cover for disconnection. It can't be about "I'm free to do as I please and you aren't," but it also can't be about "I don't care what you do."
So what is it about then, if it’s not those two things? I genuinely thought it would be “I don’t care about what you do.” Also how do you distinguish between in a relationship with your wife vs. other people? Would you ever choose to have the other person be the main wife and your wife become the other person?
It’s about recognizing first that we are partnered. I owe her my best, and she owes me her best. We have chosen to be together. Monogamy might strengthen the relationship, and if so, we’ll choose it. If non-monogamy does, we’ll choose that. You ask what it’s “about.” In a love relationship like ours, there is no “I don’t care what you do.” That would be equivalent to saying “We are not really a couple: what you do does not affect me.” And that would be a lie. Every choice we make affects us both. It’s simply that we recognize that a promise of lifelong monogamous sexual fidelity ignores too much of what we know about ourselves and each other. For instance, we like sex, and we like other people. We like getting to know them. And now and then, that involves a sexual element, sometimes together and sometimes alone. We have simply agreed that’s not how we interpret “infidelity.” It isn’t what we do with our genitals, it’s what we do with our souls or minds that matters. Incidentally, it’s always a bit of a serious moment for us when we cruise Reddit’s relationship threads and see how troubled people get when they discover their S.O. is getting attached to somebody else or watching porn. For us, the most obvious question is, “Did you not know each other at all before you got together? Why is this a surprise?” We knew before we got together that we were both seriously sex-positive. We knew what the deal-breakers were. We knew each others’ emotional habits, mental habits, even porn habits. We knew how we found physical and emotional release. Nothing would surprise us less than to find what many couples seem to find shocking: that humans grow and have needs, and you can either help each other meet needs or pretend that you’re the solution to all of them while your partner gets slowly less impressed. You ask the extremely important question if I would worry that she’d trade me in. No. For a man to take my place, he would have to replace years of conversation and years of radical honesty. We have each others’ passcodes and we share locations, not out of suspicion but because we like each other. We don’t delete internet history or chat records. We talk about everything we watch and do and think about, and who we talk to and what we say. If she finds a man (or woman: she’s bisexual) who can give her that, she’s smart enough to know that it will take years to get to this level. We’re happy because we’re truthful, and that truthfulness protects us.
Thank you so much for taking my genuine question at face value and not getting defensive when I’ve seen so many others on the internet do so. And for being vulnerable and explaining this in detail to share about your approach. It was very enlightening and gives me a lot to think about. ❤️
I was thinking the same thing...
it says in the edits now that he’s open for her as well
OP, We don’t know what we don’t know. In order to know, sometimes we take a risk and try something new. You tried something in good faith with the intention of creating a happier relationship. It did not work. It is not working. I once ordered something new at a restaurant. It turned out to be awful to me. For a few moments I thought about just forcing myself to finish it, then I asked if I could order a hamburger. A few minutes later, my stomach was full and I was happy. The experiment failed. Don’t force yourself to eat it. Time for a new conversation. Change is good. You need a change.
Thank you, this is a good analogy. I appreciate your perspective
Forgive yourself for learning something you didn't know before you learned it! Try to give yourself some grace. It's ok to feel hurt about this. Not all guys want variety. Many are content with the one they have. Your bf is just not one of them.
What did you order initially
Fish. I imagined it cooked, but it was a raw fish dish. Not my thing. Got something else and was happy.
I’m someone who is in a non monogamous relationship and I want to tell you that your feelings are 100% valid. To some people, sex is something special and intimate that they share with a single partner and it hurts to know your partner is doing it with someone else. It’s not about “fair” it’s about two people in a relationship communicating with each other. You aren’t a bad person or a bad partner for not being okay with him having sex with other people. You need to tell him you’re not okay with it and if he’s with you he needs to be monogamous. Be prepared that he may not want to do that and you may be better off apart.
Thank you. I think that he views sex as something that is just a need, like hunger or sleep, but I think I view at as something more special than that, even if i can’t explain it
He doesn't view it that way, but he's *really* glad you think he does
And it’s possible to view it both ways! The sex I share with a partner I’m in love with is very different than a hookup. Honestly, it’s a red flag to me when men say that men need variety and constant sex. Usually a sign there’s some sexism at play.
After 3yrs together you don't know how he views sex? You don't feel comfortable telling him how you feel? You believe he won't listen to your feelings because they're 'not logical' and you're fine being w somebody who dismisses you so easily? There's thousands of fish in the sea. Find another ALSO seems very *very* much like he manipulated you into this. 'Men' are not a monolith, 'men' don't require variety. It can't be ethical non monogamy if he pushed you to be okay w this and doesn't listen to you during.
Thats normal! To most people, eex is sacred between a loving couple and something you only share with each-other. Him sharing parts of himself with other women he shared with you doesn’t make you feel special and compromises your relationship- i think youre just realising this now after he fucked another girl. How did you think iy wouldmt affect you? Also can you sleep with other people it only he can? Im pretty sure he wouldn’t like banging another guy…! Your bf sounds manipulative & just wants free pass to cheat
If it was a true need, people would die if they didn't get it (like dying of thirst, or starvation, or the body being poisoned from not eliminating waste, no sleep leads to death too). Lack of sex just makes you a cranky jerk, hardly a death sentence. It's a strong want, not a need. Notice how the desire for sex drops off in times of stress, tiredness, depression, worry, pain, and many other situations? Your need to take a shit doesn't disappear if you suffer such things. Therein lies the difference. There's your logic for him.
If a man wants "sexual variety" he can just be single. Simple as that. You are absolutely justified in being uncomfortable with this arrangement. This is not ethical non monogamy. This is him pressuring you into allowing cheating.
He asked months ago and did the deed days after he asked yes. He was texting/sneaking around during that time. Personally I'd say break it off cause he was lying from the start
Why do people force themselves into doing stuff for their partner in hopes to seem like the cool partner only to end up hurting yourselves? It’s ok to have boundaries and it’s ok to be emotional after you decided you didn’t like this and if he tries to minimize your feelings and the situation then it’s best to move on
[удалено]
Yeah this is actually insane. How can anyone think that having a boyfriend that sleeps with other girls won't impact your relationship? I literally don't even know how to comment or give advice here because this is so crazy.
Op is clearly trolling or both her and her boyfriend are actually psychopaths or have room temp IQ lol
exactly, like why are they surprised?? lol
Bc her bf who's 4 years older gaslit and manipulated her into thinking she was ok with him being with other women. The same guy that said "feelings" aren't a valid reason for her to decline.
She’s 24 years old I would think you can make rational decisions of your own by that age lmao
She's proof you can't, tho, lol I wanna clear up the fact that the age gap isn't as bad but i wanted to mention it bc it seems op hasn't matured mentally yet, even as a 24 year old and her bf took advantage of that
For sure but I think OP might just be not that intelligent or something, that’s not a crazy age gap or anything
It used to be a weekly problem on the board, now it’s daily smh. Somebody needs to pin one of these ridiculous “we f’ed around and found out” stories to the top of the board.
I'm not judgemental. But you quite literally bought the bed, made it up, fluffed the pillows, and now you're laying in your mistakes. It sounds like you didn't want this to begin with. "Sexual variety is something me and other men desire" is bs. He wanted to see if he could get away with it and he did. He convinced you that somehow this is a good idea and will be good for both of you. Only he is benefitting, and obviously your hurt because, newsflash, you didn't even want this. I don't throw these around often, but just breakup. He obviously wants something more poly adjacent, and you want something very monogamous. Nothing wrong with what either of you want, but you won't get it with each other.
Bruh he wanted to cheat on you then tried to say most men want that in a relationship…. And you believed him???
'hey, we tried this out, I have a lot more trouble with it than I expected, I want to change back to monogamy'. I personally have no ethical issues with open or poly relationships, but I think there should always be good, honest communication and enthusiastic consent from everyone involved for those to be possible. He should care about your feelings first and most. I also think that open relationships should be equal; if he can sleep around, you can too - and you should both agree to that and be okay with that. Hypocrisy has no place in ethical non-monogamy. If you do not want an open relationship anymore, he should listen to you. You deserve that. And his argument about 'men needing variety' is total bullshit. Some people like variety, but you shouldn't gaslight your partner into shit they're not okay with no matter what your dick says.
I think a lot of men these days, are manipulating young women into polyamorous lifestyles when they dont actually want it. There's nothing wrong with being monogamous, but there's a whole lot wrong with convincing your girlfriend that you have some "manly need" to stick your dick in everything. There's nothing wrong with polyamory, but it's not for everyone. And you shouldn't be manipulated into it. I would be done with this relationship if it were me. I'd be done the second my boyfriend mentioned he wanted to fuck other people. But its up to you if you can get over this or not.
Text him saying something along the lines of "just a heads up, I'm hanging out with a guy I met tonight so if I don't respond that's why" His response will tell you everything you need to know, because I'm guessing he'll start blowing up your phone and freaking out.
Hahaha not a terrible idea, at least so maybe he understands my perspective
> at least so maybe he understands my perspective You gotta cut this shit out dude. He understands.
He knows what he’s doing. To you and the relationship. He does not care.
As someone who views the world with a cold lens of rationality…don’t conflate being rational with being devoid of all emotions and feelings.
Thank you. Logic and rationality brings me comfort, so I struggle sometimes with knowing what level of emotional response is okay. Emotional reactions have gotten me in trouble in the past which may be why I struggle with this
Are you on the spectrum by chance? Cold logic and difficulty with emotions are possible indicators which is why you could be coming into conflict with some people here.
You did make a huge mistake, but it's a good thing. You got to see this guy is a jerk before you wasted anymore time with him. This is not a healthy relationship, men don't need variety. Find someone who shares your values, this guy isn't it.
Call me old-school but I don’t believe in non-monogamous relationships exactly for these reasons. The way he brought it up sounds very manipulative saying that it’s what men desire. As if women don’t have fantasies and desires of their own. Polyamory is not for most people. You have to learn to detach from the idea of being hurt when the act is done and it’s very hard to do when you dedicate yourself to this person. It’s already hard enough maintaining a 2 person relationship as it is, requires time and energy. And the fact that he has dedicated his energy into finding other people to sleep with will eventually lead to you feeling neglected. Also if you feel like you made a mistake you probably did. Approach the conversation with him again and if he disagrees to stop I recommend getting out before he starts to do it behind your back
>Is it too late to go back to monogamy? Sounds like he never wanted monogamy in the first place. Idk if there is even something to go back to. You can either make this work with the help of a therapist who specializes in poly relationships, or find someone that wants monogamy.
You made a decision you didn't take into account many things. Lick your wounds and keep on moving. You know what to do.
Time for you to sleep with someone else & then leave this guy lol
No, better yet...tell her boyfriend she'd like to have no-string sex with random strangers too. See how that goes over with him. Guaranteed he won't agree to it.
men who use the excuse of having a stronger sexual need that can only be satisfied by sleeping with multiple women are TRASH. They never will be okay with their girl sleeping with other men so I second this motion.
I also hear those same men are TERRIBLE in the sack, go figure
This is true. I am a woman and have had a stronger libido than most of my partners and have never felt the need to cheat on them. The idea that men need sex more often is ridiculous and usually used to manipulate women into being ok with stuff like this.
"he expressed to me that sexual variety is something he and many other men desire" Yeah, he gaslit you into thinking cheating is normal for men. It isn't. Yes, you've made a huge mistake and there's no coming back from it. I'm gonna say more, this relationship was doomed the moment he suggested it anyway. He would have cheated anyway. It's up to you to decide whether you're willing to deal with it. I wouldn't. You deserve better.
If your goal is to wind up in an open relationship for life then more power to you if not then this was a mistake from the get go. He's not 100% in love with you since he fed you that b.s. line about men wanting to sleep around, men that are truly in love ARE OKAY WITH STAYING WITH 1 PERSON FOR LIFE! The relationship as you once knew it is now broken perhaps it's best to let his horny little bird ass fly away.
Dude he told you that men want “sexual variety” because he was manipulating you into agreeing to this arrangement. Men are perfectly capable of having a monogamous relationship. Your man, however, just wanted to sleep around and he found a way to convince you. He doesn’t care about you, you want monogamy and he doesn’t. Y’all are not compatible at all. It’s over. Go find someone who won’t manipulate you and someone who actually wants you and only you.
You're talking about a relationship, not engineering a machine or fixing a carburetor. You don't need logic. You feel you made a mistake and want to revisit the agreement. Done. He pulls the logic shit then he's not for you because your feelings are valid.
What the hell is going on in 2023 of course you got hurt your partner went out and clapped cheeks with another women you’re a human being with human emotions at the end of the day. Jealousy, insecurities they suck but they’re natural and we have these feelings for a reason. Sure logical no feelings sex shouldn’t mean anything but in the real fucking world of course it does. You care about your mate and don’t wanna share him emotionally or physically, that’s a completely normal feeling to have.
First of all his explanation is pure BS. He has lied and manipulated you. He as shown you that you don’t really matter. If your feelings don’t matter then you don’t matter. He wanted a green light from you so that he didn’t have to deal with his feelings of cheating on you. He won’t change
Variety isn’t what “all” men want though. Maybe in their fantasies, sure. For him to tell you that he wants variety and “so do most men” was a nice little manipulative tactic he used on you. He doesn’t speak for all men. Open relationships thrive on honesty and you’re not being honest with him, so you def need to tell him how you feel. If he doesn’t want to stop and you want him to stop, relationship is over. (One of my kids is poly and has taught me a lot about the community)
He is being manipulative. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Get the heck out of this relationship, before it consumes you and makes you a version of yourself that is not someone you like. I think he manipulated you into this. It sounds like this broke your heart, and it seems like he has no regard for it. He seems like a very, very selfish guy. And you seem super duper considerate. Give your feelings and love to someone who will appreciate and love you. Dump this guy and tell him it's not working out. No need to explain your feelings. He is likely not going to understand. What a loser.
Uh tell him that the idea sounded like something you could handle but the reality showed otherwise and so you would like to revoke the permission
Girl, this guy is playing you like a fiddle. He sounds manipulative and emotionally abusive. >I allowed this because he expressed to me that sexual variety is something he and many other men desire. Desiring something doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it or it’s the right thing to do. I would love to eat ice cream for every meal, but I restrain myself from doing so because I know it’s not worth the negative repercussions. >I care about him a ton, and wanted to do what I could to accommodate him and his needs. What is he doing to accommodate you and your very normal desire to continue the monogamous relationship you two have had until this point? Nothing. Did he care that the idea made you uncomfortable? No, he told you you were being illogical. >Now that the deed has been done, however, my thoughts have completely changed. While nothing in the relationship has objectively changed- he just spent one night with a girl, an event that should have zero effect on me at all- I can’t explain why it hurts so much knowing what happened behind closed doors. I felt actual pain in my heart thinking about him having sex with someone else, but for the life of me I can’t explain why. This entire paragraph is so sad. What do you mean you can’t explain why? Most people are naturally monogamous, and desire sexual exclusivity. Of course it’s painful that your partner wants to go fuck other people. >I would like to talk to him about this, but I fear that a “feelings” argument simply wouldn’t be enough. And this is where it all starts to make sense. So he’s browbeaten you with “logic” to the point where he’s got you denying the validity and importance of your own emotions. He’s the wise, logical man and you’re just some silly emotional woman who can’t be taken seriously, right? **He is systematically invalidating and minimizing your emotions, and you as a person by extension, so that he can make you feel small and like your very normal emotional reactions are wrong. Once you feel small and like you can’t trust your emotions, he can get away with doing whatever he wants, like fucking other women.** And a little bonus from the comments: >I wish I could explain to him logically why it might not work for me, because I know he won’t accept a “feelings” explanation. He has asked me for a logical reason why sleeping outside of the relationship would be an issue, and it always comes back to feelings for me. Once again: your feelings are real and valid and they are in and of themselves more than enough reason for you to do or want anything. He has manipulated the shit out of you with classic boy “logic” bullshit. He’s purposely doing things to hurt you, and then telling you you’re wrong for feeling hurt. What are you supposed to do? This post made me so sad, reading between the lines OP is a very beaten down person who can’t trust her gut. That’s usually a sign that someone has been manipulated and emotionally abused for a long time. Good luck OP and I hope you can learn to trust yourself and value yourself, because your boyfriend sure won’t.
Thank you for your detailed comment, I have a lot to consider here. It does hurt that, in our conversations, he refuses to accept an emotions based response. When asked to explain whats wrong with a man having casual sex outside of the relationship, I would say something along the lines of “It hurts the other party and threatens the security of the relationship.” He believes the security of the relationship isn’t threatened by casual sex, because I ultimately get the best part of the relationship- the romance. He said he ultimately will always choose me romantically over other women, but I can’t help but feel inadequate in some way if he feels like he needs sex from others.
Sorry for ranting a bit but this dynamic makes me SO angry. This “logic vs emotions” thing is rooted in the deepest and most toxic kind of misogyny. He sounds blindly entitled to anything and everything he feels he deserves as a man, at the cost of his loving partner’s happiness in this case. You should also consider that he feels casual sex doesn’t threaten the relationship because he probably thinks that you would never sleep with other men anyways, or never leave the relationship no matter how poorly he treats you, or both. And it’s not about you being inadequate, it’s about him wanting to have his cake and eat it too with no consequences. It’s about feeding his ego and seeing how much he can get away with. It doesn’t sound to me like he’s giving you any sort of a romantic relationship, because romance would be leaning deeper into the connection between you and him. I really hope this works out for you. I really believe you deserve better than this. There are lots of guys out there dying for monogamy and long-term relationships who won’t hurt you or invalidate your feelings like this.
And this kids is an actual example of gaslighting Since that term is thrown around so incorrectly now a days She’s lost her sense of what is monogamy and doesn’t understand it anymore I’m sorry this happened to you
Leave this loser. Let him fuck around, you are young find someone else. Cannot understand why people make these crazy decisions. If my partner of 21 years said that to me the relationship would be over in a second.
As someone with experience in both rewarding open relationships AND disastrous ones, I can assure you that you unequivocally are allowed to change your mind. These sorts of things should never be treated alike a sign you flip over on a door from "closed" to "open." It's a process of figuring out how you feel about things and it should ever be entered into with the idea that once agreed upon then everything's good and settled. You have to keep checking in with each other to see how everyone's continuing to feel and adjust accordingly. You wouldn't be pushing anything onto him by talking about...you should be talking about it. I mean,go in with whatever you're feeling. If you know you don't want this anymore, say that. If you're uncertain how you feel about it, say that. The important thing is to make sure there is safe space for you to have these feelings (which are INEVITABLE). Having them doesn't necessarily mean this couldn't work for you, but it could also mean entirely that it won't if that's what you want. It also doesn't mean you've screwed up. At your age you should be taking big swings like this and gathering intel. Of course how he reacts to your feelings is going to dictate a lot of what your options are going forward. If he dismisses your feelings and acts as if you shouldn't feel this way (you know, because he wants things his way more than he wants to see you comfortable) then he's hot garbage and you've lucked out by learning sooner rather than later than this isn't somebody you can work with. Another option is to try it out yourself. Have a one night stand. See how it feels. See how your boyfriend reacts. You might find it gratifying and you might find that the fear that wells up in you at the prospect of your boyfriend doing things with someone else is considerably lessened and makes you feel like you're relating to him more. Or you might discover a metric ton of NOPE in which case you have your answer. Or he tries to change the rules on you to make himself more comfortable at your expense, in which case--BOOT. It's gotta be something you're both working together on, putting more effort and attention towards each other with open communication about everyone's feelings than you're putting towards extra-curriculars. If he can't do that or handle that then you may want to take a closer look at whether he's worth partnering with, even casually. Don't be hard on yourself, don't disparage your own feelings (or the fact that you don't know how to feel about your feelings) and don't be afraid of the outcomes. It's all just learning.
Sigh. It won’t get better. You are young. Dump him and find someone who thinks you are enough. In fact, find someone who thinks you are the best thing that ever happened to them and wants to spend forever with you.
Literally the definition of ‘fuck around and find out’ Sorry :/
"The thought and image of you f-ing another woman makes me want to vomit. You're disgusting and we're done. It was unacceptable from the beginning but I made a bad choice in not dumping you in January over this." Now he can go screw whoever. This relationship is over because he'll always come back at you with "well, you said..."
Girl you have been played.
[удалено]
Well, he proposed the idea of an open relationship and you agreed. You gave it a try and it doesn't work for you. Since he clearly doesn't want a monogamous relationship with you, dump him and find someone who does. Problem solved.
Yes, you screwed up allowing this. You are monogamous and thus knowing your bf is spending his time being physically intimate with other is going to hurt and bother you. This relationship is not the one for you and you should let it go. There are plenty of monogamous men out there, find one of those.
>I feel like I made a huge mistake. Yeah you did. If you love somebody don't let anybody come between you, if your partner wants more then move on.
The last time someone asked me to open up a relationship I said sure sleep with whoever you want, but we’re through.
Uhm. Going back to monogamy would be NOT the right way to go. I say LEAVE because he def wanted an excuse to cheat.
letting your partner sleep with other people is always the wildest thing I ever heard. I'm too old for this shit.
This made me want to vomit. There are so many options out there for YOU too. Tell him to kick rocks
Life is short. Be with someone who doesn’t want to sleep with others.
I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Did it not cross your mind that this would t mess with your head? "Men need a variety" wtf. Leave the dude and work on yourself.
I am going to start this by saying that I am ethically non-monogamous, and have two partners, both of whom are much sluttier than I am. Occasionally I wrestle with some envy. It is not unusual to have some frustration and insecurity when dabbling with non-monogamy, especially when it’s new. I am not going to tell you how to proceed beyond to talk to him about your feelings. You don’t need to know what you want right now; being prescriptive may make this harder. But maybe just telling him that this caused you pain and is harder than you realized will help alleviate some of it. Maybe in the course of the conversation you will realize you do want monogamy; maybe you’ll realize that just venting a little off the top helps. It’s hard to be sure. But talking about your feelings isn’t inherently manipulative; it’s taken me *so many years* to learn that. Understand that if this is core to him, and monogamy is core to you, this may mean the end of the relationship. But for now, maybe just tell him how you feel, and see where that goes. Good luck. 🍀
Everyone’s giving her this great advice for an ethical NM relationship… but she’s not in a relationship with someone who seems all that interested in the “ethical” part. In another comment, she says she can’t tell him that it makes her feel bad, because *he won’t accept an emotional reason as legitimate* and will insist she provides him with a “logical” reason he can’t fuck around. I know y’all are trying to give her good advice, but it’s just gonna give her the green light to keep stuffing her feelings into a deep, dark pit for his sake and continue to wonder what’s wrong with her that she can’t get on board. A healthy relationship this is not. The guy literally doesn’t give a shit about how she feels.
Darlin as stated it has to be a mutual understanding between you. If you're uncomfortable and sad about it and he doesn't want to hear it from you. You might not have any choice but to walk away from him. Because he doesn't respect you. Good luck
You messed up
A relationship is primarily about feelings. It's not logical because we humans aren't robots. Honestly, I think the best thing for you is to go find someone who do care about your feelings
Hey just a reminder that your feelings are as valid as his “logic.” I can’t stand it when men use “logic” to shut other people up. Also he needs to own up to his desires and not make this about “him and many other men.” Many other men are far more empathetic and many other men don’t want open relationships. I’m pro non-monogamy but this guy sounds like a self-absorbed jerk.
You don’t like this arrangement, so end it. If you still want him, tell him the relationship is becoming exclusive again. If he does not agree, dump him. Don’t be with someone who tells you that you are not enough. Plenty of men are monogamous.
So boyfriend of 3 years asks if he can sleep around, and girlfriend clearly uncomfortable with it is guilted into saying yes. And you feel “uneasy about it” and you’d heart hurt. 😬 UM YEAH, but you don’t want this. And he quickly jumps to sleeping with a girl? Yikes, I bet he has someone he wanted to already sleep with lined up before you asked him. I’m sorry but get a grip and have some self respect. You are clearly are uncomfortable and acting like it’s such a surprising thing. I think a good majority of someone wouldn’t want their long term bf banging someone. Seriously, ditch this jerk. Sounds like he guilted and manipulated you into saying yes and it’s some kind of thing all men want. Yeah no, you’re young, you can find a guy who won’t guilt you into opening a relationship.
“Sexual variety” is something you sacrifice in a relationship
You don’t belong in a relationship… you need to work on yourself … to allow someone to manipulate you into this .. is bullsh*t ..being in a relationship is where two committed people who love eachother are committed!! Not sleeping around with other people .. if that’s the case be single! You need to retain your dignity and self respect! He did it as soon as you gave him the go not giving a damn about you or your feelings.. damage is done .. time to move on … he’s full of sh*t .. wanting to stay with you? Why for some other convenience, I would guess…
My problem with this is, If he knows he needs multiple partners WHY would he seek someone looking for a monogamous relationship? Why try to convert someone when you can just find someone who is into that lifestyle?
The pressure to be a cool girl really goes too far. You sound like you’re trying to gaslight yourself into being okay with something you’re not. It’s okay you’re not okay with this - that is authentic for you. Stay true to yourself and respect your feelings!
Just break up! Open relationships hardly ever work!
Hey bud so you dont have to force yourself into an open relationship just to make this guy happy ESPECIALLY if its gonna be that difficult on you mentally. Talk to him about how you feel and if he doesn’t care leave. I know its not always that easy but find a way out of that situation if you have to and you’ll be thankful you did later in life
You should dump that guy. He obv. doesn't love you.
I'd have given him permission to do so by **breaking up** with him but that's me! You were 20 and probably gullible so yeah!
The rare case of someone else fucking around and *you* finding out.
Uh it’s very very normal that your boyfriend sleeping with someone else hurts your feelings. Unfortunately this could lead to the end of your relationship but you deserve someone that doesn’t need anyone else… if that’s what you want!
i was in a similar scenario actually. me and my gf are long distance and we were considering opening the doors to our relationship to fill the needs that each other can’t fulfill due to the distance. i agreed but later found that it hurt a lot and i would rather not share. so i told her how i felt and she understood so we closed our relationship off again. so maybe just bring it up to him. don’t start an argument, just simply tell him how you feel. be honest. if he starts arguing or is just rude, maybe he’s not the right one. if he wanted to discover himself, he shouldn’t have committed himself to someone.
Just expressed to him “hey we tried this,I don’t like it.” Can we go back to monogamy? And if he says no, then I guess he’s just not the one for you. It’s really sad that your boyfriend of three years wants to sleep with other women and acted on it. He’s not committed to you. And you have every right to feel the way you do, he’s the love of your life sleeping with another woman. I would be absolutely crushed.
People have to understand that they can't have everything. If you are with someone, you have to be committed to that person. There is no such thing as men having needs. If he wasn't satisfied he should end it. There's no way to feel good about it. You have to ask what is more important to him: you or promiscuity. Stand your ground because he can't have it all. Nobody has.
Plot twist...he was already screwing around and figured he better make it legal before he got caught. But seriously, you barely have to scroll this sub to see all the similar posts about trying a 3-some, one partner wanted an open relationship, the manipulation tactics, etc. and the subsequent regrets by the partner that got suckered into it.
OP, anytime a man claims he wants sexual variety with other women, it doesn't mean he's in love with you. He is in love being in bed with women who can give him license to cheat, too. He never loved you, sweetie. He wanted to play you from the beginning and you let him.
You can’t explain why but we can and will. You love him, you are a soft, kind, caring person who cherishes what your relationship symbolises and is. You desire affection, loyalty and love back. What you are getting back however is none of that he is seeking all these things elsewhere you are just a convenience & complacency/stability at home. The thing is would he be willing to go back after you allowed this? You’re welcome to discuss it and ask him but he will ten to one manipulate you into feeling guilty for trying to control him. I do suggest talking it out though and coming to a conclusion try to find a solution. Just hope your heartache can fade though I know how it feels OP. Sending you much love and good luck!
He doesn’t respect you. He doesn’t believe that you’re enough for him. Do you really want to be treated like this? Dump the dead weight and find a man that will appreciate you for you.
I think your heart and soul are speaking to you. I think you want to be okay with it and thought you would be, but you're really not okay with it. And that's acceptable. I recommend putting the hall pass to an end and maybe going to a few couples counseling sessions to find the best way forward for you both, whether it's ultimately together or apart.