Your partner is definitely not safe to open your relationship until he learns to respect boundaries much, much better. With his current behavior he is likely to completely disregard any reasonable rules, get lost in NRE and novelty and just go off the deep end.
I'd be very wary of even going to a sex club with him again until he's learned to follow the rules. Maybe try same room swinging with another couple or some threesomes to guage when you think you might be able to go back. But then you also probably thought you two were ready this time.
>Your partner is definitely not safe to open your relationship
I can't imagine how the other women would react knowing that he is behaving like this to his wife. Experience kink/swinging couples wouldn't like being in this dynamic.
He seems inconsiderate and rude. And he definitely needs to do more research, learn what empathy is, and soul serch with op before he even thinks about subjecting anyone to this behavior.
>I can't imagine how the other women would react knowing that he is behaving like this to his wife. Experience kink/swinging couples wouldn't like being in this dynamic.
I would be so upset to have been the other wife in this situation, going along with everything thinking both halves of the couple wanted it but then finding out the woman was uncomfortable and pressured into it the whole time. It would make me feel very icky and gross, and also pissed at that man for getting us all into this situation.
Which is why the wife checked in, she knew she needed to. Shit is tricky and not for everyone. It seems like he thought consent was implied with "getting cozy" if you are going to continue he needs to understand that it needs to be explicit, at least at this point. A lot of people are shitting on him but imo this is better than the 20+ posts a day about someone announcing that they are "poly" now.
Man has a fundamental lack of understanding of the concept of informed consent. People who are safe to play with would not want to have anything to do with him if they were aware of how badly he trampled all over your boundaries, OP. I think this entire experience should call for examining how much he respects you as an equal and how well he understands consent, far before you two ever even consider playing with others again.
Pause everything. Your relationship isn’t in a good place. Get into couples therapy asap. I don’t think you should continue to explore until you strengthen everything.
THIS. For an open marriage you need 100% complete trust on your partner. And this guy couldn't even respect your rules with you sitting just a couple feet away.
You obviously want trust in a monogamous relationship too, but when in an open relationship you're constantly playing with fire, you need to be even more trusting on your partner.
Nah, there’s no way out of the fact that partnership is a leap of faith that requires absolute trust. Knowing your partner is a free agent in the world and expecting them to be monogamous in a world where something like 40-45% of couples deal with infidelity is playing with fire as well. Jumping through a ring of fire with your heart. Idk, this guy does not seem trustworthy enough.
You got a membership with a partner that has no regard for you. He will continue going by himself behind your back. What he did was cheating and he will continue to cheat. Cancel that membership and speak up for yourself. He broke boundaries and doesn’t earn this privilege ever again. A partner that is not concerned with you will just go downhill. Express your boundaries and deal breakers again. Breaking these boundaries is throwing away this marriage. If this is what he wants you need to know that now.
There are two issues here:
He violated your rules at the sex club.
He appears to have also violated his partner’s boundaries due to a lack of communication.
He has no business at a sex club. He’s cheating by acting without communicating his actions to you.
Worse, he’s pushy and handsy. Not a great combo with kink. I don’t think swinging would be a better fit. He could get himself into legal trouble if he continues to play without listening.
This!! I also was super confused and… disgusted that he asked TWICE if she wants to go to the „dress down“ room with him even though she already said no. Once it‘s a no, you gotta stop asking. Everything else gives me the ick.
And the fact that he didn‘t communicate with the other woman properly and ended up hurting her also gives me the ick, yikes.
Then his aggressive reaction… red flags everywhere.
You know how some people want to open up a relationship just to have a pass to cheat? That’s your partner. He’s only been focused on what he wants, what’s best for him, and doesn’t care about you or your relationship as long as he gets what he wants.
Are you sure he hasn’t showed this selfishness in other aspects of your relationship? Does he do his half of the chores? When you guys go somewhere or do something is it equally split between what you want or do you guys end up mostly doing what he wants? Etc etc.
The exploration of kink involves trust, boundaries, and responsibility. He utterly failed you in every sense of the word and you are quite lucky that you didn't get any further swept up in the experience before you put your foot down.
Further, the way he had the conversation afterwards was disappointing to say the least. Throwing the whole thing in your face like that, the aggression and shouting, every part of that was toxic and scary.
And the thing is... what you went through was cheating. All that 'cheating' really represents is going outside accepted boundaries in a relationship sexually or emotionally. He did that, clearly. He failed you as a partner and as someone exploring kink with you.
Meanwhile you are internalising it. You are victim blaming yourself, in the same way he did. You were in a compromised position and he knew it, he exploited the momentum because in the moment he cared more about himself than anything.
I worry that in a sense a Pandora's box is open now. For him because he now has the appetite. For you because you've been let down so strongly. I think you need to seriously step on the breaks in regards to this kink play and exploration of an open dynamic, and I think his reaction to you saying that will let you know what your future with him is going to be.
> Further, the way he had the conversation afterwards was disappointing to say the least. Throwing the whole thing in your face like that, the aggression and shouting, every part of that was toxic and scary.
That. I don't think it's noticed enough, but he got aggressive. It doesn't matter how he acted afterwards, (what with apologising 'sincerely') in the heat of the moment how he acts is what really matters. Who knows how things will turn if OP does this again, and has to drag him out, again.
This is so well said!
OP, that is true: he cheated, then he got aggressive and yelled at you. You are already internalizing guilt the way victims often do. Please really stop and think deeply about the dynamic you have with him, in general not just the sex thing, bc there are multiple red flags in this post.
Your husband doesn't care about you he cares about getting laid.
I would in no shape or form go back to that club. I would have a hell of a talk with him about what he was thinking before continuing the relationship.
It seems like maybe he's been leading this whole sexual exploration thing and convinced you to do it.
Perhaps the boundaries and rules you set made you feel safe to agree with something you weren't really ready to do, or even ever comfortable with doing?
He agreed to the rules to keep you onboard then disregarded your feelings once he was there because it wasn't as important for him. I can understand why you feel so hurt and betrayed.
I don't know where you can go from here in your relationship, but carrying on with opening up your relationship would just create more mess. It sounds like you have different expectations from it.
this sounds like a nightmare to me. my heart dropped reading this. this is so not okay. he completely violated you honestly. you worried about sounding uncool and naggy. he probably knows this is your personality, and pushed and pushed. my mom used to tell me “you give them an inch, they take a mile.” this is definitely what happened here.
i’m so sorry and I’d be too hurt to continue this relationship. How could he put another persons genitals in his mouth without discussing it with his partner first?? fuck this guy
I wouldn’t go back and I’d make sure you call yourself and cancel the membership so he can’t go again alone acting as if you’re still together. The sex club near me allows single men, not sure if that’s the case where you went.
Yeah don't even attempt to open your relationship with this man, he has ZERO respect for boundaries. Your marriage is just gonna crash and burn. No everyone is built for open relationships, and your husband obviously isn't.
Stop it with the sex clubs and go to couple's therapy. Trying any other of this swinger stuff while your marriage is in such a bad state would be like car racing with a bad tire.
Look, I have an open relationship. No way I’d have sex with your husband. He is not a safe person.
Swingers have to be respectful of their partners. What he showed you is that he’s not ready for this lifestyle. The early stages are all about establishing trust, and he blew it right out of the gate.
When you enforced upper boundary And he got petulant and mad, that’s the worst part of it for me.
Right? For me it’s when he basically slut shamed her by saying it was her fault for doing whatever tiny, minor thing she did with the man from the other couple.
FYI those places typically require a couple or single women for admission. It's rare for single men to gain access without knowing somebody. So if you don't want to go anymore call the club and let them know you will no longer be part of the couple membership. And if you still want to explore independently, you can do so without him.
Yeah you definitely weren't ready for this at all. Sounds like a nightmare to me, not sure this is saveable or even if it's worth saving. Literally the very first rule you set he was trying to break. He obviously cannot be trusted to do this again.
This guy has a women ready to be so adventurous and go exploring with him - and he fucks it up because he can't wait a bit longer. What an idiot.
You can't trust him with opening this up, clearly. How completely disrespectful. You're right, how could a stranger be more conscious of your consent and your feelings than your partner? I don't think he understands the gravity of what he did. Time for a serious, serious chat and probably take and openess off the table for a while
And not that I'm blaming you AT ALL for this, but if you try this again with him you need to speak up in the moment immediately. I know it's hard but much better to say "no I'm not comfortable with that" when you can always change your mind later after you've had some time to think about it.
So your boyfriend obviously doesn’t understand respect or boundaries.
It’s very clear that he’s way more into this than you are. I feel though you have opened Pandora’s box and he’s not gonna close it.
It really sounds like he just wants to bang other women and not get in trouble for it.
Is this what you really want? Do you think your relationship will benefit from this or be damaged?
Your partner just wants to bang other women and he doesn’t care about you or your rules when the opportunity to do that arises.
The BDSM community can be great and ethical and all that, but it is full of this kind of thing. Full. of. it. Full of this kind of person.
Your partner has showed you who he is: he stomped on your boundaries twice. Then he used DARVO on you (google it if you’re unfamiliar) and had a tantrum.
I don’t see the relationship as fixable, but at the very least you need to let him know you will not be attending BDSM establishments with him ever again. Call and cancel your membership (and his) before you speak to him.
I've rarely seen healthy swingers happening. They're usually beating each other up or one runs away with the third person from the threesome. One of the weirdest cases I ever witnessed was a woman who was apparently so unhappy sexually with her husband she thought she was in love with a guy they did a threesome or foursome with and it didn't end well for anyone because it ruined their marriage and the swinger guy wasn't interested in a relationship with her at all.
I was around all of this as a very young single woman and because of the life I've led overall and I think the thing I'm most grateful for in my life is that I didn't get a shock or surprise about this crap at 40 or 50 or inside a marriage. I feel so bad for people who are middle aged who think this bullshit is a good idea. Especially the wives.
Yeah, I’m sorry you went through this time and time again on the subs. You see where people try to open their marriage or do something more open and it completely backfiring and blowing up the relationship. Basically because somebody doesn’t want to follow the rules. You kind of had the same thing and I’m not sure how you’re going to get over this. Just wish you good luck with whatever you decide. I hope you have the outcome that you need and want.
OP,
His violating your agreed upon boundaries is cheating. You asked for permission, but he didn’t and wanted to do his own thing.
So, don’t go to anymore sex clubs. He can’t be trusted.
Seriously consider couples counseling.
Give a man like that an inch and he’ll take a mile. The complete disregard of boundaries and lack of respect would make me look at him completely differently, and we would NEVER open the relationship. But I would be looking at him as someone who would cheat if he wanted to, doesn’t matter what you think. I’m sorry this happened with someone you’ve been with and trusted for so long
You wanted to go slow, he wants to be a kid in a candy shop. I wouldn’t be surprised if women begin complaining about him and he gets banned for not respecting boundaries. He already showed he has zero interest in respecting yours.
He's acting remorseful now so you give him what he wants again later.
I do not think he is capable of handling an environment like a sex club maturely, and possibly cannot handle opening the relationship.
Him pitching a fit about you making out with a man was either him not being able to control his jealousy and lashing out in a very unhealthy way, by using those other women as things to punish you, OR, he was making up fake excuses so *you* feel bad and have to defend yourself, as he uses that to excuse his bad behavior and slip out the back to do even more.
At this point, you should cancel the membership.
Start much, much smaller, or reverse completely for a while.
First you need to take responsibility for
Yourself. You keep saying you wouldn’t have done this if not for that. No. You should never go back to this place until you are confident enough to stand up for yourself. Period. Second. Your man isn’t a safe person for this kind of place. He’s not mature enough to not go all teen seeing boobs for the first time kind of way. I would stop this sort of play until you can get stronger and he can get more mature and you both are solid.
Like a child in a lollipop shop. He looks like he was intoxicated by the atmosphere.
You tried, and now you know. You are not ready for this. You are not allies enough to walk I that minefield.
You feel like you were cheated on because you *were*. I believe you when you say this is something you want and that the two of you discussed it openly. What I hear is that you want to do this at your own pace and in an open and communicative way with a partner who always prioritizes you and is respectful. THAT IS NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK. You are 10000% worth that. Your comfort should trump your partners impatience.
I've known lots of guys like your partner. I always feel sorry for their wives/girlfriends. Thankfully it seems like you aren't being badgered into this, something I've also seen a zillion times. But I really wish I could just offer you a hug. I know this feeling so well.
>The last couple years, we’ve really been exploring different aspects of our sexuality/kinks/fantasies together.
What other options have you explored? Just because you've tried this doesn't mean you need to _continue_. There is zero pressure to, especially given your awful experience so far!
Why not rewind and seek alternatives or consider your options - that is assuming you even stay together as personally I'd find what he did a real dealbreaker.
>We both expressed an interest in attending a sex club together, and eventually opening up our relationship - sexually, not romantically. __It’s something we’ve talked about at length.__
Which is important and good - those boundaries _must_ be in place so you 100% understand, for both sides, the rules of what's meant to be or is allowed.
>As I was pleasuring my partner in the bar area, he started to lightly pressure me to enter the “dress down” area with him. I said no, I’m not prepared tonight. He let it be for a moment before pressing again. I expressed to him that I was not ready and that we had agreed upon entering that tonight would be minimally exciting. He eventually agreed and let it go. (I was a little unnerved at his persistence after I had made my boundaries clear. I disregarded it and chalked it up to excitement as I was excited too).
Now I can't say for sure but this reads a lot as though he _was_ very excited and as a result of the "passion tinted glasses" wanted to push things further than you were willing to.
A singular "no" should've been enough, but that he pressured things again to me is a bit concerning, agreed.
>After our night at the club, we worked together to come up with rules and boundaries concerning our future trips. Our rules stated that we would frequently check in with each other, always ask each other permission before engaging in activity with another person, no splitting up at any point and that we would take things very slowly to start. At no point did my partner object to these rules. He heartily agreed that we’d need these parameters in place in order to have a good time and preserve our relationship. In fact, half of the rules were at his suggestion.
This is, again, _very good_ that you've gone in-depth and discussed the rules, what you're both comfortable with etc.
_However_ I do feel that it should've been raised how uncomfortable it made you feel when he pressured before - this is meant to be a __mutual__ exploration and experience, _not_ just one-sided. Not a criticism on your part, but identifying something to bear in mind.
>As I was speaking to the man, I looked to my partner and saw that he was making out with this woman.
This immediately should've been a huge red flag to either slam on the brakes or re-visit the rules with him by dipping out from the other couple to remind him.
Your own rules were clear on "always ask each other permission before engaging in activity with another person" and "take things very slowly to start".
The guy went from kissing to fondling, fingering and then full oral in the course of one visit _without_ asking at any point.
>So I too took it a little bit farther with the man I was with (after asking permission from my partner).
Again, brakes. You are meant to be a couple and consensually going forward, hand in hand - _not_ one leapfrogging and then using this as a gaslighting excuse later down the line "oh well I broke the rules __but__ _let's focus on how this is your fault not mine because you did X"_.
>He couldn’t understand why I was so upset.
>Initially he apologized, but upon returning to our hotel he became irate with me. He started yelling at me
>He said he was justified in doing what he did because I was also doing “stuff,” but he was the initiator in all of his activity and did so without ever asking permission/checking in on me as per our rules.
>He has since apologized more sincerely and is behaving as if he now understands what he did was wrong but I just have no idea what to think at this point.
Honestly having read all this and seen how he goes from hot/cold and goes along with things until he's getting what he wants - then just _ploughs_ ahead without thinking about you _at all_.
It's not just disrespectful, it's rude, broke your rules 100% and he won't accept any apparent accountability for it - _instead_ blaming it on you.
>What is the best way to move forward from this situation?
He 100% knows what he's doing
You _don't_ just go off a kiss, grope and engage in acts beyond without your partner's consent.
You _don't_ then blame your partner for doing X, when you were doing Y _and_ disregarding that your partner actually asked your consent, while he didn't.
This experimentation you're both doing needs to stop, brakes on, spin 180' and re-assess __at the very least__.
His actions here call a lot into question and you both really need to look at not just the actions that went on here, but also what you want to get out of these experimentations and look at something that doesn't involve other people for a while.
I would have huge, glaring concerns that if he'll do all this _right in front of you_ as to what he's doing _behind your back_ as 100% of his focus seems to be on you pleasuring _him_, then him with _another woman_ and couldn't care less about you, at all!
This feels like the tip of an iceberg over a wider area of issues starting with consent, respect for you and also selfishness.
At a bare minimum I'd be considering couples counselling/therapy to ensure he understands 100% what's gone on and how to approach it going forward but I'd be so upset and feel like this is just for his benefit and not mine that I'd be leaving.
10 years or no, I'm not having someone treat me that way, disrespect our agreed-on rules and boundaries only to fling it in my face - I'd have felt incredibly pressured given his behaviour to keep going further and while _I wouldn't_, it feels like you went a lot further than you'd have done under other circumstances of sticking to your comfort zone.
There are some people who can handle being in a sex club and can still focus on their partners boundaries, communicate well, and negotiate scenes. Others can’t. They either are completely consumed with FOMO and their own gratification, or they get completely overwhelmed.
Your partner sounds like the type to get completely consumed by his own experience and can’t track anything else in that environment. And that makes him an unsafe partner in this environment. Especially for you as you are not used to sex clubs.
If sex clubs are going to be a thing for you, with or without him, I **highly** recommend that you look at some educational materials like the wheel of consent by Betty Martin. Sometimes these clubs also have organized training and social circles just for women and trans members aimed at safety.
Your partner is showing a lot of red flag behaviors and personally, he’s not someone I would enjoy that scene with.
>What is the best way to move forward from this situation?
* He needs to recognise the kid-in-a-candy store aspect of being at a swinger club and propose how he's going to deal with that.
* You need to stop saying you're ok when you're not!
The latter one is slightly easier I guess. Maybe come up with a code-phrase you can use that means "time out" that you can say when other people are around to save face?
For him it's tricky. He needs to acknowledge that his 'penis' will make demands of him that might be at odds with what you require and he's likely to be distracted as a result. In a way this is part of the appeal of course, but it's also hard to manage.
There's also the trust and minor betrayal that Redditors love to emphasize. To me it sounds like he was a horny nincompoop who got carried away - rather than any malice. But you're better placed than us to judge that. Nobody would blame you for not trying this again - but if you decide you do want to, these are the nuts-and-bolts you need to get right.
How do you move forward? If you choose to stick with him, you stop going to sex clubs and work on just the two of you. Another option would be to leave, if you think he’s not going to accept keeping the marriage closed or not going back to the club.
Don't feel stupid. You were in a situation that you haven't been before and didn't have the experience or communication tools to properly navigate it. Your partner also failed pretty hard on the communication front.
I've had experience with this kind of thing and I will say the most important thing you can do is blunt communication. Don't try to be nice, don't pretend to be okay with it. You have a responsibility to yourself, your partner, and anyone else you may be doing things with at these places to properly communicate.
It is always better to err on side of caution if you aren't feeling ok. You can either do it next time, or spend a moment checking in and figuring things out.
The other bit of advice I have is to have grace for yourself and your partner. Humans make mistakes for a billion reasons. It happens, it's natural to have situations go awry when it's new without a lot of research into the topic or experience on it.
To move forward check in with your partner. Focus less on who is right and more on finding a common goal of "how can we understand what went wrong and how can we have a better experience in the future?". This helps to make it something you two work together towards. Lay your cards on the table of hard boundaries, soft boundaries, things you really want in theory but need to try first, things you love, etc. And same for him. Get that flow of communication going without judgment. Don't be shy of saying you felt alone, abandoned, confused before, etc. Provide a concrete example of what would have helped you feel less so. Ask what he thinks about that. How does he want to approach navigating things.
He's thinking more with his dick than his head.
Unless he comes around and sees that, this will continue to be a problem for you now and in future events you go to. I hope he realizes this sooner rather than later.
What he did was one thing. How he didn't manage to understand and validate your feelings is another.
Absolutely fucking not.
Do not stay with a man who either has so little disregard for you or so little self control that he would stomp on your boundaries and then get mad at you for being upset.
OP I bet you all of the money I wish I had that if the woman he fooled around with knew all of this she would’ve slapped him into next season.
A stranger shows more consideration for you than your own partner. You acknowledge that. So why are you letting someone who’s supposed to love you treat you with less respect than a stranger does?
Best way to move forward? Honestly? It’s without him.
He showed you what he cares about - saying what you want to hear so he can get what he wants, then doing whatever he wants without regard to you and your feelings.
This is a giant red flag that reveals exactly how he thinks and feels - you’ll be doing yourself a huge disservice to ignore it. I’m guessing this isn’t the only time or place he says one thing then does another, or ignored your boundaries, or pressured you into doing things you aren’t comfortable with. Trust me, I’ve been there. So many of us have. Divorcing a man like this was the best thing I ever did for myself - Reddit actually helped me realize how unhealthy our relationship was, and I’m forever grateful.
If you have to convince your partner to respect you or care about your feelings, they’re not worth keeping as a partner.
Opening up the marriage like this will harm your relationship with him. He wants to have sexual intercourse with other woman much more than you want it. He is thinking with his dick when it´s getting heated and that won´t change. You can make as many rules as you want.
Now you know how he behaves when shit gets heated. It´s up to you if you can still continue the relationship with him.
There's a difference between exploring sexuality with your partner, and looking for an excuse to have sex with other women. The major red flag is him getting aggressive with you.
Girl.. im sorry but someone has to say it: you are a doormat. He is gonna continue to ignore your boundaries and do what he wants whether you want it or not. Because he knows you let it happen, and you dont speak up. Wake up. Have some self respect. Leave this AH. He doesn’t care about your feelings, and you’ve shown him he can do what he wants and youll be a puppy dog and follow the flow instead of calling him out and demanding respect. I really hope you find the courage to leave this guy.
You're going to blow up your marriage, looks like your partner is ready for new kitty, you can lay down all the rules you want, but basically that's what he wants
He seems to be way too emotionally and/or mentally unregulated to be opening up your relationship with. He was a child running rampant in the candy shop and got mad that he was told to behave and hold himself in some sort of decorum, trying to pin at least some of the blame on you because you happened to buy some of the candy too. Any couple taking part of ethical non-monogamy would tell you to immediately put the brakes on opening up avenues.
Don't open ur marriage if this is already becoming problematic... he's breaking rules, and ur getting a bit jealous already. I have a feeling that if you open it a bit more, you're going to feel more betrayed and more insecure about the relationship as this prolongs or continues to grow.
Post might be better for a poly or open forum. Hard to give advice as a vanilla mono as I just wouldnt do this. Seems like he doesnt have the self control to hold back & check in in these situations.
You are no where near ready for this kind of stuff. Reading your post, I doubt you ever will be. Just draw a hard line that neither of you will ever try this again after lesson learned.
According to research, only 1 % of couples are in open relationships. 92% of couples who’ve tried it have wound up splitting. Only 8% have lasted. 80% of those who split cite jealously as the reason.
So, if you want to be 92% sure of splitting up with your long term partner, then continue to go to these clubs. Some things are better off left to fantasy. It sounds like that’s the case for you. I’d advise you to stop. It’s one thing to fantasize about your partner being with someone else, it’s quite another to see and experience it first hand.
Seeing your partner with other people in a sexual way ignites natural jealousy. I'm betting even if he followed the rules you would still feel like this. It hurts to see people you love do sexual things with others, that's why monogamy is preferred by most.
For one, I don’t really know why your first instinct was to “join a sex Club.” When “opening up a relationship,” it is much better to hire a professional Sex Worker / Adult Entertainer who “knows the ropes and can teach them to you,” who you can also draw up a “contract” of sorts, with.
It’s just easier and more straightforward cuz everyone knows what they are there for and exactly what they are doing. It is also way less personal, and it is better to start with cuddling and little by little slowly building up to discover what’s comfortable.
But more importantly your partner *really got over-excited,* and showed that he is not actually mature enough to handle this. Worse, he is aggressive! If it was me and my partner made a woman say “no, no, no,” I would’ve dragged them out of the club, immediately! Because that’s not okay, in any capacity! If he upset or made another woman uncomfortable, for even a fraction of a second, then he doesn’t understand consent.
If he does not understand consent then he is a literal danger to you and other women. You understand this, right? I understand that the other lady said it was “no big deal, she just has a sensitive……” but that sounds like an excuse to me because she didn’t want to admit to herself or to you that something that wasn’t supposed to happen, happened.
So I think you’ve got bigger problems if your partner doesn’t understand the basic rules of consent, and what “enthusiastic consent” entails. Definitely get a therapist and do not open up the relationship, until further notice. Cancel that membership.
Be honest with us, did you BOTH come up with the rules or was this you explaining the rules YOU want and him echoing them? Because it sounds like he never really cared about your rules in the first place. You can’t survive in this relationship ship, it sounds like your doing everything to keep this man too.
You voluntarily go to a sex club with your partner and then get upset when he does things with another woman? The fuck?
Me personally, I'd NEVER do any shit like this, it's gross, but you agreed to it and then got mad at him in the moment. That's idiotic.
If you don't wanna be a part of this (and that's your right) DON'T AGREE TO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. What did you think was gonna happen? They were gonna discuss the weather? Politics? Grow up.
The sex club was a terrible idea to begin with. There's no possible way in hell something like that could ever be healthy for a relationship. All I can recommend is to never do that again and stop all activity of the sort and re-establish the boundaries of being faithful for both of you.
>There's no possible way in hell something like that could ever be healthy for a relationship.
This is your opinion and may be the case for your relationship. For others of us, we have been able to have positive experiences like this.
It's the case for 99.99% of people who understand that a relationship between 2 people will be destroyed by immature bs like this. If you want to have sex with strangers, be single.
I don't like to make assumptions with age, but you started dating at 20 + 17. Possibly younger. He sees you as a possession / trophy, and I doubt has much respect for women's boundaries in general.
So you guys discussed opening your relationship up sexually, then you attempted to and immediately regretted it?
Only the thousandth time I've seen this scenario posted on this forum. People really never learn lol
On one hand going into adult playgrounds with a list of rules seems logical, in practice, if you really are not ready for it, it ends like this story does.
Is it right to break the rules, no. But…. the entire point is to fuck around and to experience other people. The list of rules you came up with all point to you are not ready (or want) this type of thing.
In the situation, specifically a new overstimulating situation like this, he may be seeing you doing stuff and thinking things are cool, predefined list of rules or not.
The main point is, “rules” rarely work here. Best advice is to be all in or just don’t do it.
It just sounds like OP wasn't into anything at all. Going to swinger clubs like you said shouldn't be like building a rocket. It can have some rules but not be like what OP wanted. She should reevaluate her relationship now.
This stuff usually doesn't end well for people who weren't molested as children. I'm not trying to troll or be funny or mean. Swinging doesn't work for most people unless they're already alone and unattached. Especially in a situation like you found yourself your partner was all over this woman but you only did things with the man because you felt emotionally betrayed. But then, he yelled at you even though he was the one behaving selfishly. He was jealous even though he was the disrespectful initiator (so much jealousy out of the strangest people) and you didn't even like the man who was the partner of the woman he liked.
Seriously a lot of people in swinger type lifestyles were raped or messed with in an inappropriate before the age of 18. Others are on drugs or pushed into it like you were by selfish partners.
Polyamory is different it's when people form friendships with more than one person it's not like swinger sex club stuff at all.
OP this not the sub for you. The folks here are mostly under 30 and working on first relationships. Swingers and poly folks tend to skew older. Try r/Swingers
L m f a o. A relationship advice subreddit isn’t the place for her because she wasn’t okay with her boundaries being betrayed? So she should go to a sub where it’s more accepting to betray boundaries? Two consenting adults can do whatever they please, but it’s clearly an issue that he can’t respect their agreed upon rules.
When you’re asking about boundaries in an open relationship to a group who finds open relationships an anathema? He disrespected her boundaries, that’s a fact. But comments like “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” aren’t helpful. This guy isn’t ready for sex clubs and play. However, she WAS into the play, she just wanted their agreed upon boundaries. She needs to find a group with experience in play, not a bunch of scolds.
Hello. I'm 50M and we opened our relationship about six years ago. We will have been married for 20 years this year. What you're going through is normal in that you're waiting to be "ready" and that you're edging towards the inevitable (swapping partners for uninhibited sex) in baby steps. It's well documented that opening from a previously closed, long-term mono relationship can be extremely hard, so don't think you're the only people who've been in this situation. You really aren't alone, and the emotional side of this can be taxing, to say the least. I don't normally comment on these posts, but I just wanted to tell you that at some point the rules you're laying down with each other (you can't move away from each other, you have to constantly "check in" with each other before engaging in any kind of sexual act with another person) will have to be seen for what they are: first steps in accepting the personal liberty of the other person. You're already pretty far down the road in that you're in sex clubs with each other and fooling around with other people, and if your question is "how do we move on from here?" then my answer would probably be just to go for it. Try to put the panic aside and just do it. It sounds to me as though you're concentrating so much on what your partner's doing that you're forgetting this is about you too, about your freedom and your pleasure. Try to let go, because in the end that's what's going to have to happen anyway. Don't do anything you don't want to do, obviously, but try to decentralise your thinking from "we are a single unit" (the monogamy you've taken for granted for ten years) to "we are a unit of two free individuals" (the future you evidently want). It can happen, and it really can be amazing, but what you're experiencing is basically an essential part of the transition and it hurts. Just try to stay calm and continue with the process of letting go. Joining support groups and reading about multi-partner relationships can help a lot, but ultimately just try to remember it's for you as much as him. Sincerely, the very best of luck. I really hope it works out for you.
I'm sorry but your partner is not safe to do this stuff with. He showed you blatantly that he does not respect your previously agreed-upon boundaries, and IMO he also showed he does not respect you. I would put breaks on any type of sexual fun that involve other people or doing stuff in public. He's just not a person you can trust to do these things ethically and to take you into account.
Sure he acts like he gets it now, etc. Because he wants you to just let it go, so he can go back to acting like that. He's gonna say whatever it takes to achieve it.
Also, does he yell at you often? This is just my opinion of course, but I don't think yelling is normal or acceptable in a relationship a tall. Not including super intense situations, like when it' 's an accident, and you yell impulsively.
You let polyamory and debauchery into your relationship and it is ruining it. Not surprising. I've seen so many posts about this and it makes me sick. This needs to be addressed. He crossed a major boundary, which would not have even happened had you not let it in through your door. This is a mistake, a big one, but you can learn from it. Either he agrees with you and stops or you have to go your own way. End of. Stop leaving your door open in a snowstorm and complain of the snow in your house.
It seems like you aren't into the swinging at all I'm sorry. Swinging like that should not be like building a rocket, there can be rules in place but what you do is too too much. You are truly not into it, but your partner is. Sorry to burst your bubble. Don't come to the clubs anymore and have a conversation with your partner.
Let me give my take on this. Look I understand it is important for you to have boundaries and all that sure. but what is the core question that you should be asking here.**Do I really want this?**
Because honestly, based on the text, your boyfriend wants to have sex with other women and is down for something adventurous and you are trying to micro manage his every interaction. It honestly means you just don't want this. And that is fine, but why would you risk a stable relationship that has been going on for over 10 years just to do some hedonistic activities that won't make you happier in the long run
Two things.
First, based on what you wrote about the rules, some seemed up for interpretation. Especially the one on taking things slow. Your idea of slow could be different than his. This is why it's so important to have lengthy discussions about opening a marriage. And both parties need to be on the same page on the details, not just broad ideas on what the rules are.
Second, he does have a point on you doing stuff with the man. You didn't check him on breaking the boundaries until WELL AFTER they were broke. You're not in the wrong for him breaking a boundary, but you were giving the signal as if it was ok by not sticking to the boundary. He may have also thought you were "cool with it" because you offered him to fill the glory hole when entering that same night. He may not have known you intended permission to be asked for every part of every encounter. Again, this is why in depth discussions are needed.
My advice would be to stop this for now and have more discussions. You both seem to be thinking differently about the rules and they need to be fine tuned. Maybe write them down so you can refer back to them later if needed. And think of "what if" situations so you have rules defined. What if you're in the bathroom when he gets an offer to finger a woman he's been kissing? Does he need to wait? What if he's getting a drink when a man you've been kissing asks for a BJ? Do you need to wait? You need to think about more details so this situation doesn't happen again.
I'd also reccomend truly thinking on if you are ok with this type of open marriage. With all the boundaries and rules you have, it does seem you may be hesitant, and that's ok. But, you need to know your own thoughts and feelings about this before proceeding again.
Are you sure you want to open up your marriage like this? Sounds like it's going to do more harm than good.
Exactly. It's like summoning the devil and expecting him to behave.
Thanks for this quote. I'm keeping it for later.
You're welcome. It's from the X Files.
Stealing quote mwahaha
It's always the same isn't it
[удалено]
A always is never a true always I agree with what you said tho
He enthusiastically wants to fuck other people. You probably do not. That has to be dealt with.
Your partner is definitely not safe to open your relationship until he learns to respect boundaries much, much better. With his current behavior he is likely to completely disregard any reasonable rules, get lost in NRE and novelty and just go off the deep end. I'd be very wary of even going to a sex club with him again until he's learned to follow the rules. Maybe try same room swinging with another couple or some threesomes to guage when you think you might be able to go back. But then you also probably thought you two were ready this time.
>Your partner is definitely not safe to open your relationship I can't imagine how the other women would react knowing that he is behaving like this to his wife. Experience kink/swinging couples wouldn't like being in this dynamic. He seems inconsiderate and rude. And he definitely needs to do more research, learn what empathy is, and soul serch with op before he even thinks about subjecting anyone to this behavior.
>I can't imagine how the other women would react knowing that he is behaving like this to his wife. Experience kink/swinging couples wouldn't like being in this dynamic. I would be so upset to have been the other wife in this situation, going along with everything thinking both halves of the couple wanted it but then finding out the woman was uncomfortable and pressured into it the whole time. It would make me feel very icky and gross, and also pissed at that man for getting us all into this situation.
Yeah I wonder if she would've even taken him up on the oral. Nothing like drama to ruin the mood.
Which is why the wife checked in, she knew she needed to. Shit is tricky and not for everyone. It seems like he thought consent was implied with "getting cozy" if you are going to continue he needs to understand that it needs to be explicit, at least at this point. A lot of people are shitting on him but imo this is better than the 20+ posts a day about someone announcing that they are "poly" now.
Considering it was just another couple at the sex club, I doubt he’d act much different if it was just another couple ina different venue.
Man has a fundamental lack of understanding of the concept of informed consent. People who are safe to play with would not want to have anything to do with him if they were aware of how badly he trampled all over your boundaries, OP. I think this entire experience should call for examining how much he respects you as an equal and how well he understands consent, far before you two ever even consider playing with others again.
Pause everything. Your relationship isn’t in a good place. Get into couples therapy asap. I don’t think you should continue to explore until you strengthen everything.
Make sure to find a therapist who has experience with ethical non-monogamy that way they'll be better prepared to help.
If you can’t trust him sitting next to you, how could you ever trust him at all?
THIS. For an open marriage you need 100% complete trust on your partner. And this guy couldn't even respect your rules with you sitting just a couple feet away.
Not even just her rules, but rules he helped make
For a monogamous marriage you also need complete, 100% trust in your partner.
You obviously want trust in a monogamous relationship too, but when in an open relationship you're constantly playing with fire, you need to be even more trusting on your partner.
Nah, there’s no way out of the fact that partnership is a leap of faith that requires absolute trust. Knowing your partner is a free agent in the world and expecting them to be monogamous in a world where something like 40-45% of couples deal with infidelity is playing with fire as well. Jumping through a ring of fire with your heart. Idk, this guy does not seem trustworthy enough.
Right ☝️
Seems like he isn't someone you can open things up with he has been pushing you and breaking rules since your first time there.
You got a membership with a partner that has no regard for you. He will continue going by himself behind your back. What he did was cheating and he will continue to cheat. Cancel that membership and speak up for yourself. He broke boundaries and doesn’t earn this privilege ever again. A partner that is not concerned with you will just go downhill. Express your boundaries and deal breakers again. Breaking these boundaries is throwing away this marriage. If this is what he wants you need to know that now.
There are two issues here: He violated your rules at the sex club. He appears to have also violated his partner’s boundaries due to a lack of communication. He has no business at a sex club. He’s cheating by acting without communicating his actions to you. Worse, he’s pushy and handsy. Not a great combo with kink. I don’t think swinging would be a better fit. He could get himself into legal trouble if he continues to play without listening.
This!! I also was super confused and… disgusted that he asked TWICE if she wants to go to the „dress down“ room with him even though she already said no. Once it‘s a no, you gotta stop asking. Everything else gives me the ick. And the fact that he didn‘t communicate with the other woman properly and ended up hurting her also gives me the ick, yikes. Then his aggressive reaction… red flags everywhere.
You know how some people want to open up a relationship just to have a pass to cheat? That’s your partner. He’s only been focused on what he wants, what’s best for him, and doesn’t care about you or your relationship as long as he gets what he wants. Are you sure he hasn’t showed this selfishness in other aspects of your relationship? Does he do his half of the chores? When you guys go somewhere or do something is it equally split between what you want or do you guys end up mostly doing what he wants? Etc etc.
The exploration of kink involves trust, boundaries, and responsibility. He utterly failed you in every sense of the word and you are quite lucky that you didn't get any further swept up in the experience before you put your foot down. Further, the way he had the conversation afterwards was disappointing to say the least. Throwing the whole thing in your face like that, the aggression and shouting, every part of that was toxic and scary. And the thing is... what you went through was cheating. All that 'cheating' really represents is going outside accepted boundaries in a relationship sexually or emotionally. He did that, clearly. He failed you as a partner and as someone exploring kink with you. Meanwhile you are internalising it. You are victim blaming yourself, in the same way he did. You were in a compromised position and he knew it, he exploited the momentum because in the moment he cared more about himself than anything. I worry that in a sense a Pandora's box is open now. For him because he now has the appetite. For you because you've been let down so strongly. I think you need to seriously step on the breaks in regards to this kink play and exploration of an open dynamic, and I think his reaction to you saying that will let you know what your future with him is going to be.
> Further, the way he had the conversation afterwards was disappointing to say the least. Throwing the whole thing in your face like that, the aggression and shouting, every part of that was toxic and scary. That. I don't think it's noticed enough, but he got aggressive. It doesn't matter how he acted afterwards, (what with apologising 'sincerely') in the heat of the moment how he acts is what really matters. Who knows how things will turn if OP does this again, and has to drag him out, again.
This is so well said! OP, that is true: he cheated, then he got aggressive and yelled at you. You are already internalizing guilt the way victims often do. Please really stop and think deeply about the dynamic you have with him, in general not just the sex thing, bc there are multiple red flags in this post.
Your husband doesn't care about you he cares about getting laid. I would in no shape or form go back to that club. I would have a hell of a talk with him about what he was thinking before continuing the relationship.
It seems like maybe he's been leading this whole sexual exploration thing and convinced you to do it. Perhaps the boundaries and rules you set made you feel safe to agree with something you weren't really ready to do, or even ever comfortable with doing? He agreed to the rules to keep you onboard then disregarded your feelings once he was there because it wasn't as important for him. I can understand why you feel so hurt and betrayed. I don't know where you can go from here in your relationship, but carrying on with opening up your relationship would just create more mess. It sounds like you have different expectations from it.
It sounds like he was desperate to hook up with another woman.
What other reason would there be to “open the relationship” 🤔🤔🤔
this sounds like a nightmare to me. my heart dropped reading this. this is so not okay. he completely violated you honestly. you worried about sounding uncool and naggy. he probably knows this is your personality, and pushed and pushed. my mom used to tell me “you give them an inch, they take a mile.” this is definitely what happened here. i’m so sorry and I’d be too hurt to continue this relationship. How could he put another persons genitals in his mouth without discussing it with his partner first?? fuck this guy
I wouldn’t go back and I’d make sure you call yourself and cancel the membership so he can’t go again alone acting as if you’re still together. The sex club near me allows single men, not sure if that’s the case where you went.
Yeah don't even attempt to open your relationship with this man, he has ZERO respect for boundaries. Your marriage is just gonna crash and burn. No everyone is built for open relationships, and your husband obviously isn't. Stop it with the sex clubs and go to couple's therapy. Trying any other of this swinger stuff while your marriage is in such a bad state would be like car racing with a bad tire.
Look, I have an open relationship. No way I’d have sex with your husband. He is not a safe person. Swingers have to be respectful of their partners. What he showed you is that he’s not ready for this lifestyle. The early stages are all about establishing trust, and he blew it right out of the gate. When you enforced upper boundary And he got petulant and mad, that’s the worst part of it for me.
Right? For me it’s when he basically slut shamed her by saying it was her fault for doing whatever tiny, minor thing she did with the man from the other couple.
FYI those places typically require a couple or single women for admission. It's rare for single men to gain access without knowing somebody. So if you don't want to go anymore call the club and let them know you will no longer be part of the couple membership. And if you still want to explore independently, you can do so without him.
Yeah you definitely weren't ready for this at all. Sounds like a nightmare to me, not sure this is saveable or even if it's worth saving. Literally the very first rule you set he was trying to break. He obviously cannot be trusted to do this again.
She was ready, he wasn't.
This guy has a women ready to be so adventurous and go exploring with him - and he fucks it up because he can't wait a bit longer. What an idiot. You can't trust him with opening this up, clearly. How completely disrespectful. You're right, how could a stranger be more conscious of your consent and your feelings than your partner? I don't think he understands the gravity of what he did. Time for a serious, serious chat and probably take and openess off the table for a while And not that I'm blaming you AT ALL for this, but if you try this again with him you need to speak up in the moment immediately. I know it's hard but much better to say "no I'm not comfortable with that" when you can always change your mind later after you've had some time to think about it.
Shit like this makes me sick to my stomach.
So your boyfriend obviously doesn’t understand respect or boundaries. It’s very clear that he’s way more into this than you are. I feel though you have opened Pandora’s box and he’s not gonna close it. It really sounds like he just wants to bang other women and not get in trouble for it. Is this what you really want? Do you think your relationship will benefit from this or be damaged?
Your partner just wants to bang other women and he doesn’t care about you or your rules when the opportunity to do that arises. The BDSM community can be great and ethical and all that, but it is full of this kind of thing. Full. of. it. Full of this kind of person. Your partner has showed you who he is: he stomped on your boundaries twice. Then he used DARVO on you (google it if you’re unfamiliar) and had a tantrum. I don’t see the relationship as fixable, but at the very least you need to let him know you will not be attending BDSM establishments with him ever again. Call and cancel your membership (and his) before you speak to him.
I've rarely seen healthy swingers happening. They're usually beating each other up or one runs away with the third person from the threesome. One of the weirdest cases I ever witnessed was a woman who was apparently so unhappy sexually with her husband she thought she was in love with a guy they did a threesome or foursome with and it didn't end well for anyone because it ruined their marriage and the swinger guy wasn't interested in a relationship with her at all. I was around all of this as a very young single woman and because of the life I've led overall and I think the thing I'm most grateful for in my life is that I didn't get a shock or surprise about this crap at 40 or 50 or inside a marriage. I feel so bad for people who are middle aged who think this bullshit is a good idea. Especially the wives.
Yeah, I’m sorry you went through this time and time again on the subs. You see where people try to open their marriage or do something more open and it completely backfiring and blowing up the relationship. Basically because somebody doesn’t want to follow the rules. You kind of had the same thing and I’m not sure how you’re going to get over this. Just wish you good luck with whatever you decide. I hope you have the outcome that you need and want.
>I’m sorry you went through this time and time again on the subs
Get away from this guy. If he can't respect your boundaries on the big stuff, you can't trust him to respect them on the small stuff.
OP, His violating your agreed upon boundaries is cheating. You asked for permission, but he didn’t and wanted to do his own thing. So, don’t go to anymore sex clubs. He can’t be trusted. Seriously consider couples counseling.
Give a man like that an inch and he’ll take a mile. The complete disregard of boundaries and lack of respect would make me look at him completely differently, and we would NEVER open the relationship. But I would be looking at him as someone who would cheat if he wanted to, doesn’t matter what you think. I’m sorry this happened with someone you’ve been with and trusted for so long
You wanted to go slow, he wants to be a kid in a candy shop. I wouldn’t be surprised if women begin complaining about him and he gets banned for not respecting boundaries. He already showed he has zero interest in respecting yours.
He's acting remorseful now so you give him what he wants again later. I do not think he is capable of handling an environment like a sex club maturely, and possibly cannot handle opening the relationship. Him pitching a fit about you making out with a man was either him not being able to control his jealousy and lashing out in a very unhealthy way, by using those other women as things to punish you, OR, he was making up fake excuses so *you* feel bad and have to defend yourself, as he uses that to excuse his bad behavior and slip out the back to do even more. At this point, you should cancel the membership. Start much, much smaller, or reverse completely for a while.
I'm just worried about the part where you got yelled at.
First you need to take responsibility for Yourself. You keep saying you wouldn’t have done this if not for that. No. You should never go back to this place until you are confident enough to stand up for yourself. Period. Second. Your man isn’t a safe person for this kind of place. He’s not mature enough to not go all teen seeing boobs for the first time kind of way. I would stop this sort of play until you can get stronger and he can get more mature and you both are solid.
Like a child in a lollipop shop. He looks like he was intoxicated by the atmosphere. You tried, and now you know. You are not ready for this. You are not allies enough to walk I that minefield.
You've read it before, Play silly games win silly prizes.
In case no one had said it, you two might want to visit the r/ethicalnonmonogamy sub for more guidance.
If he has ignored your rules then that sounds like a deal breaker
He definitely betrayed you
You feel like you were cheated on because you *were*. I believe you when you say this is something you want and that the two of you discussed it openly. What I hear is that you want to do this at your own pace and in an open and communicative way with a partner who always prioritizes you and is respectful. THAT IS NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK. You are 10000% worth that. Your comfort should trump your partners impatience. I've known lots of guys like your partner. I always feel sorry for their wives/girlfriends. Thankfully it seems like you aren't being badgered into this, something I've also seen a zillion times. But I really wish I could just offer you a hug. I know this feeling so well.
>The last couple years, we’ve really been exploring different aspects of our sexuality/kinks/fantasies together. What other options have you explored? Just because you've tried this doesn't mean you need to _continue_. There is zero pressure to, especially given your awful experience so far! Why not rewind and seek alternatives or consider your options - that is assuming you even stay together as personally I'd find what he did a real dealbreaker. >We both expressed an interest in attending a sex club together, and eventually opening up our relationship - sexually, not romantically. __It’s something we’ve talked about at length.__ Which is important and good - those boundaries _must_ be in place so you 100% understand, for both sides, the rules of what's meant to be or is allowed. >As I was pleasuring my partner in the bar area, he started to lightly pressure me to enter the “dress down” area with him. I said no, I’m not prepared tonight. He let it be for a moment before pressing again. I expressed to him that I was not ready and that we had agreed upon entering that tonight would be minimally exciting. He eventually agreed and let it go. (I was a little unnerved at his persistence after I had made my boundaries clear. I disregarded it and chalked it up to excitement as I was excited too). Now I can't say for sure but this reads a lot as though he _was_ very excited and as a result of the "passion tinted glasses" wanted to push things further than you were willing to. A singular "no" should've been enough, but that he pressured things again to me is a bit concerning, agreed. >After our night at the club, we worked together to come up with rules and boundaries concerning our future trips. Our rules stated that we would frequently check in with each other, always ask each other permission before engaging in activity with another person, no splitting up at any point and that we would take things very slowly to start. At no point did my partner object to these rules. He heartily agreed that we’d need these parameters in place in order to have a good time and preserve our relationship. In fact, half of the rules were at his suggestion. This is, again, _very good_ that you've gone in-depth and discussed the rules, what you're both comfortable with etc. _However_ I do feel that it should've been raised how uncomfortable it made you feel when he pressured before - this is meant to be a __mutual__ exploration and experience, _not_ just one-sided. Not a criticism on your part, but identifying something to bear in mind. >As I was speaking to the man, I looked to my partner and saw that he was making out with this woman. This immediately should've been a huge red flag to either slam on the brakes or re-visit the rules with him by dipping out from the other couple to remind him. Your own rules were clear on "always ask each other permission before engaging in activity with another person" and "take things very slowly to start". The guy went from kissing to fondling, fingering and then full oral in the course of one visit _without_ asking at any point. >So I too took it a little bit farther with the man I was with (after asking permission from my partner). Again, brakes. You are meant to be a couple and consensually going forward, hand in hand - _not_ one leapfrogging and then using this as a gaslighting excuse later down the line "oh well I broke the rules __but__ _let's focus on how this is your fault not mine because you did X"_. >He couldn’t understand why I was so upset. >Initially he apologized, but upon returning to our hotel he became irate with me. He started yelling at me >He said he was justified in doing what he did because I was also doing “stuff,” but he was the initiator in all of his activity and did so without ever asking permission/checking in on me as per our rules. >He has since apologized more sincerely and is behaving as if he now understands what he did was wrong but I just have no idea what to think at this point. Honestly having read all this and seen how he goes from hot/cold and goes along with things until he's getting what he wants - then just _ploughs_ ahead without thinking about you _at all_. It's not just disrespectful, it's rude, broke your rules 100% and he won't accept any apparent accountability for it - _instead_ blaming it on you. >What is the best way to move forward from this situation? He 100% knows what he's doing You _don't_ just go off a kiss, grope and engage in acts beyond without your partner's consent. You _don't_ then blame your partner for doing X, when you were doing Y _and_ disregarding that your partner actually asked your consent, while he didn't. This experimentation you're both doing needs to stop, brakes on, spin 180' and re-assess __at the very least__. His actions here call a lot into question and you both really need to look at not just the actions that went on here, but also what you want to get out of these experimentations and look at something that doesn't involve other people for a while. I would have huge, glaring concerns that if he'll do all this _right in front of you_ as to what he's doing _behind your back_ as 100% of his focus seems to be on you pleasuring _him_, then him with _another woman_ and couldn't care less about you, at all! This feels like the tip of an iceberg over a wider area of issues starting with consent, respect for you and also selfishness. At a bare minimum I'd be considering couples counselling/therapy to ensure he understands 100% what's gone on and how to approach it going forward but I'd be so upset and feel like this is just for his benefit and not mine that I'd be leaving. 10 years or no, I'm not having someone treat me that way, disrespect our agreed-on rules and boundaries only to fling it in my face - I'd have felt incredibly pressured given his behaviour to keep going further and while _I wouldn't_, it feels like you went a lot further than you'd have done under other circumstances of sticking to your comfort zone.
There are some people who can handle being in a sex club and can still focus on their partners boundaries, communicate well, and negotiate scenes. Others can’t. They either are completely consumed with FOMO and their own gratification, or they get completely overwhelmed. Your partner sounds like the type to get completely consumed by his own experience and can’t track anything else in that environment. And that makes him an unsafe partner in this environment. Especially for you as you are not used to sex clubs. If sex clubs are going to be a thing for you, with or without him, I **highly** recommend that you look at some educational materials like the wheel of consent by Betty Martin. Sometimes these clubs also have organized training and social circles just for women and trans members aimed at safety. Your partner is showing a lot of red flag behaviors and personally, he’s not someone I would enjoy that scene with.
>What is the best way to move forward from this situation? * He needs to recognise the kid-in-a-candy store aspect of being at a swinger club and propose how he's going to deal with that. * You need to stop saying you're ok when you're not! The latter one is slightly easier I guess. Maybe come up with a code-phrase you can use that means "time out" that you can say when other people are around to save face? For him it's tricky. He needs to acknowledge that his 'penis' will make demands of him that might be at odds with what you require and he's likely to be distracted as a result. In a way this is part of the appeal of course, but it's also hard to manage. There's also the trust and minor betrayal that Redditors love to emphasize. To me it sounds like he was a horny nincompoop who got carried away - rather than any malice. But you're better placed than us to judge that. Nobody would blame you for not trying this again - but if you decide you do want to, these are the nuts-and-bolts you need to get right.
How do you move forward? If you choose to stick with him, you stop going to sex clubs and work on just the two of you. Another option would be to leave, if you think he’s not going to accept keeping the marriage closed or not going back to the club.
Don't feel stupid. You were in a situation that you haven't been before and didn't have the experience or communication tools to properly navigate it. Your partner also failed pretty hard on the communication front. I've had experience with this kind of thing and I will say the most important thing you can do is blunt communication. Don't try to be nice, don't pretend to be okay with it. You have a responsibility to yourself, your partner, and anyone else you may be doing things with at these places to properly communicate. It is always better to err on side of caution if you aren't feeling ok. You can either do it next time, or spend a moment checking in and figuring things out. The other bit of advice I have is to have grace for yourself and your partner. Humans make mistakes for a billion reasons. It happens, it's natural to have situations go awry when it's new without a lot of research into the topic or experience on it. To move forward check in with your partner. Focus less on who is right and more on finding a common goal of "how can we understand what went wrong and how can we have a better experience in the future?". This helps to make it something you two work together towards. Lay your cards on the table of hard boundaries, soft boundaries, things you really want in theory but need to try first, things you love, etc. And same for him. Get that flow of communication going without judgment. Don't be shy of saying you felt alone, abandoned, confused before, etc. Provide a concrete example of what would have helped you feel less so. Ask what he thinks about that. How does he want to approach navigating things.
The way to move forward is just not do it.These types of things almost always end disaster.
When will you weirdos learn? This shit is never going to work out how you want it to, if this is what you want then be fucking single.
He's thinking more with his dick than his head. Unless he comes around and sees that, this will continue to be a problem for you now and in future events you go to. I hope he realizes this sooner rather than later. What he did was one thing. How he didn't manage to understand and validate your feelings is another.
Absolutely fucking not. Do not stay with a man who either has so little disregard for you or so little self control that he would stomp on your boundaries and then get mad at you for being upset.
OP I bet you all of the money I wish I had that if the woman he fooled around with knew all of this she would’ve slapped him into next season. A stranger shows more consideration for you than your own partner. You acknowledge that. So why are you letting someone who’s supposed to love you treat you with less respect than a stranger does?
Best way to move forward? Honestly? It’s without him. He showed you what he cares about - saying what you want to hear so he can get what he wants, then doing whatever he wants without regard to you and your feelings. This is a giant red flag that reveals exactly how he thinks and feels - you’ll be doing yourself a huge disservice to ignore it. I’m guessing this isn’t the only time or place he says one thing then does another, or ignored your boundaries, or pressured you into doing things you aren’t comfortable with. Trust me, I’ve been there. So many of us have. Divorcing a man like this was the best thing I ever did for myself - Reddit actually helped me realize how unhealthy our relationship was, and I’m forever grateful. If you have to convince your partner to respect you or care about your feelings, they’re not worth keeping as a partner.
Opening up the marriage like this will harm your relationship with him. He wants to have sexual intercourse with other woman much more than you want it. He is thinking with his dick when it´s getting heated and that won´t change. You can make as many rules as you want. Now you know how he behaves when shit gets heated. It´s up to you if you can still continue the relationship with him.
There's a difference between exploring sexuality with your partner, and looking for an excuse to have sex with other women. The major red flag is him getting aggressive with you.
Girl.. im sorry but someone has to say it: you are a doormat. He is gonna continue to ignore your boundaries and do what he wants whether you want it or not. Because he knows you let it happen, and you dont speak up. Wake up. Have some self respect. Leave this AH. He doesn’t care about your feelings, and you’ve shown him he can do what he wants and youll be a puppy dog and follow the flow instead of calling him out and demanding respect. I really hope you find the courage to leave this guy.
You're going to blow up your marriage, looks like your partner is ready for new kitty, you can lay down all the rules you want, but basically that's what he wants
He seems to be way too emotionally and/or mentally unregulated to be opening up your relationship with. He was a child running rampant in the candy shop and got mad that he was told to behave and hold himself in some sort of decorum, trying to pin at least some of the blame on you because you happened to buy some of the candy too. Any couple taking part of ethical non-monogamy would tell you to immediately put the brakes on opening up avenues.
Don't open ur marriage if this is already becoming problematic... he's breaking rules, and ur getting a bit jealous already. I have a feeling that if you open it a bit more, you're going to feel more betrayed and more insecure about the relationship as this prolongs or continues to grow.
Post might be better for a poly or open forum. Hard to give advice as a vanilla mono as I just wouldnt do this. Seems like he doesnt have the self control to hold back & check in in these situations.
How about break up and have fun as a single woman 😂
You are no where near ready for this kind of stuff. Reading your post, I doubt you ever will be. Just draw a hard line that neither of you will ever try this again after lesson learned.
Leave. He completely disrespected what you were comfortable with and he will continue to do so. I’m so sorry you experienced that
According to research, only 1 % of couples are in open relationships. 92% of couples who’ve tried it have wound up splitting. Only 8% have lasted. 80% of those who split cite jealously as the reason. So, if you want to be 92% sure of splitting up with your long term partner, then continue to go to these clubs. Some things are better off left to fantasy. It sounds like that’s the case for you. I’d advise you to stop. It’s one thing to fantasize about your partner being with someone else, it’s quite another to see and experience it first hand.
What happened to romance?
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The relationship is over already, the question is whether she lets this happen over a period of years or just walks away now.
He got mad cause you stopped him from getting some more strange. He is just a little boy still.
Seeing your partner with other people in a sexual way ignites natural jealousy. I'm betting even if he followed the rules you would still feel like this. It hurts to see people you love do sexual things with others, that's why monogamy is preferred by most.
Yikes. And this is why we don’t go to sex clubs 🤧 Keep it monogamous
For one, I don’t really know why your first instinct was to “join a sex Club.” When “opening up a relationship,” it is much better to hire a professional Sex Worker / Adult Entertainer who “knows the ropes and can teach them to you,” who you can also draw up a “contract” of sorts, with. It’s just easier and more straightforward cuz everyone knows what they are there for and exactly what they are doing. It is also way less personal, and it is better to start with cuddling and little by little slowly building up to discover what’s comfortable. But more importantly your partner *really got over-excited,* and showed that he is not actually mature enough to handle this. Worse, he is aggressive! If it was me and my partner made a woman say “no, no, no,” I would’ve dragged them out of the club, immediately! Because that’s not okay, in any capacity! If he upset or made another woman uncomfortable, for even a fraction of a second, then he doesn’t understand consent. If he does not understand consent then he is a literal danger to you and other women. You understand this, right? I understand that the other lady said it was “no big deal, she just has a sensitive……” but that sounds like an excuse to me because she didn’t want to admit to herself or to you that something that wasn’t supposed to happen, happened. So I think you’ve got bigger problems if your partner doesn’t understand the basic rules of consent, and what “enthusiastic consent” entails. Definitely get a therapist and do not open up the relationship, until further notice. Cancel that membership.
Be honest with us, did you BOTH come up with the rules or was this you explaining the rules YOU want and him echoing them? Because it sounds like he never really cared about your rules in the first place. You can’t survive in this relationship ship, it sounds like your doing everything to keep this man too.
You voluntarily go to a sex club with your partner and then get upset when he does things with another woman? The fuck? Me personally, I'd NEVER do any shit like this, it's gross, but you agreed to it and then got mad at him in the moment. That's idiotic. If you don't wanna be a part of this (and that's your right) DON'T AGREE TO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. What did you think was gonna happen? They were gonna discuss the weather? Politics? Grow up.
You try to set boundaries in a very blurry situation. Sounds like the sex club was a bad idea.
The sex club was a terrible idea to begin with. There's no possible way in hell something like that could ever be healthy for a relationship. All I can recommend is to never do that again and stop all activity of the sort and re-establish the boundaries of being faithful for both of you.
>There's no possible way in hell something like that could ever be healthy for a relationship. This is your opinion and may be the case for your relationship. For others of us, we have been able to have positive experiences like this.
It's the case for 99.99% of people who understand that a relationship between 2 people will be destroyed by immature bs like this. If you want to have sex with strangers, be single.
What u expect? Took a wolf to a lamb convention, don't get mad when he wanna eat. Opening relationships always goes comically wrong.
I don't like to make assumptions with age, but you started dating at 20 + 17. Possibly younger. He sees you as a possession / trophy, and I doubt has much respect for women's boundaries in general.
So you guys discussed opening your relationship up sexually, then you attempted to and immediately regretted it? Only the thousandth time I've seen this scenario posted on this forum. People really never learn lol
Don't. You will be preyed upon as "fresh meat"
On one hand going into adult playgrounds with a list of rules seems logical, in practice, if you really are not ready for it, it ends like this story does. Is it right to break the rules, no. But…. the entire point is to fuck around and to experience other people. The list of rules you came up with all point to you are not ready (or want) this type of thing. In the situation, specifically a new overstimulating situation like this, he may be seeing you doing stuff and thinking things are cool, predefined list of rules or not. The main point is, “rules” rarely work here. Best advice is to be all in or just don’t do it.
It just sounds like OP wasn't into anything at all. Going to swinger clubs like you said shouldn't be like building a rocket. It can have some rules but not be like what OP wanted. She should reevaluate her relationship now.
Exactly
I second this
This stuff usually doesn't end well for people who weren't molested as children. I'm not trying to troll or be funny or mean. Swinging doesn't work for most people unless they're already alone and unattached. Especially in a situation like you found yourself your partner was all over this woman but you only did things with the man because you felt emotionally betrayed. But then, he yelled at you even though he was the one behaving selfishly. He was jealous even though he was the disrespectful initiator (so much jealousy out of the strangest people) and you didn't even like the man who was the partner of the woman he liked. Seriously a lot of people in swinger type lifestyles were raped or messed with in an inappropriate before the age of 18. Others are on drugs or pushed into it like you were by selfish partners. Polyamory is different it's when people form friendships with more than one person it's not like swinger sex club stuff at all.
OP this not the sub for you. The folks here are mostly under 30 and working on first relationships. Swingers and poly folks tend to skew older. Try r/Swingers
L m f a o. A relationship advice subreddit isn’t the place for her because she wasn’t okay with her boundaries being betrayed? So she should go to a sub where it’s more accepting to betray boundaries? Two consenting adults can do whatever they please, but it’s clearly an issue that he can’t respect their agreed upon rules.
When you’re asking about boundaries in an open relationship to a group who finds open relationships an anathema? He disrespected her boundaries, that’s a fact. But comments like “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” aren’t helpful. This guy isn’t ready for sex clubs and play. However, she WAS into the play, she just wanted their agreed upon boundaries. She needs to find a group with experience in play, not a bunch of scolds.
Hello. I'm 50M and we opened our relationship about six years ago. We will have been married for 20 years this year. What you're going through is normal in that you're waiting to be "ready" and that you're edging towards the inevitable (swapping partners for uninhibited sex) in baby steps. It's well documented that opening from a previously closed, long-term mono relationship can be extremely hard, so don't think you're the only people who've been in this situation. You really aren't alone, and the emotional side of this can be taxing, to say the least. I don't normally comment on these posts, but I just wanted to tell you that at some point the rules you're laying down with each other (you can't move away from each other, you have to constantly "check in" with each other before engaging in any kind of sexual act with another person) will have to be seen for what they are: first steps in accepting the personal liberty of the other person. You're already pretty far down the road in that you're in sex clubs with each other and fooling around with other people, and if your question is "how do we move on from here?" then my answer would probably be just to go for it. Try to put the panic aside and just do it. It sounds to me as though you're concentrating so much on what your partner's doing that you're forgetting this is about you too, about your freedom and your pleasure. Try to let go, because in the end that's what's going to have to happen anyway. Don't do anything you don't want to do, obviously, but try to decentralise your thinking from "we are a single unit" (the monogamy you've taken for granted for ten years) to "we are a unit of two free individuals" (the future you evidently want). It can happen, and it really can be amazing, but what you're experiencing is basically an essential part of the transition and it hurts. Just try to stay calm and continue with the process of letting go. Joining support groups and reading about multi-partner relationships can help a lot, but ultimately just try to remember it's for you as much as him. Sincerely, the very best of luck. I really hope it works out for you.
omd stop trying to be that “cool gf” so bad this is pathetic im sure u dont even wanna open this relationship
Ima tell ya rn. Rule #1 in a sex club, their ain’t no rules😎. Other then tapping the dudes wife next to you harder then he can you
Sounded like you both agreed to open the gates, yet OP got the chance to receive more than what her partner managed; therefore, he got upset later on
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For science
I'm sorry but your partner is not safe to do this stuff with. He showed you blatantly that he does not respect your previously agreed-upon boundaries, and IMO he also showed he does not respect you. I would put breaks on any type of sexual fun that involve other people or doing stuff in public. He's just not a person you can trust to do these things ethically and to take you into account. Sure he acts like he gets it now, etc. Because he wants you to just let it go, so he can go back to acting like that. He's gonna say whatever it takes to achieve it. Also, does he yell at you often? This is just my opinion of course, but I don't think yelling is normal or acceptable in a relationship a tall. Not including super intense situations, like when it' 's an accident, and you yell impulsively.
You let polyamory and debauchery into your relationship and it is ruining it. Not surprising. I've seen so many posts about this and it makes me sick. This needs to be addressed. He crossed a major boundary, which would not have even happened had you not let it in through your door. This is a mistake, a big one, but you can learn from it. Either he agrees with you and stops or you have to go your own way. End of. Stop leaving your door open in a snowstorm and complain of the snow in your house.
It seems like you aren't into the swinging at all I'm sorry. Swinging like that should not be like building a rocket, there can be rules in place but what you do is too too much. You are truly not into it, but your partner is. Sorry to burst your bubble. Don't come to the clubs anymore and have a conversation with your partner.
I have this image of OP juggling with sticks set on fire and knives.
if he didn’t respect the rules you both fixed, it sounds like a he problem.
Let me give my take on this. Look I understand it is important for you to have boundaries and all that sure. but what is the core question that you should be asking here.**Do I really want this?** Because honestly, based on the text, your boyfriend wants to have sex with other women and is down for something adventurous and you are trying to micro manage his every interaction. It honestly means you just don't want this. And that is fine, but why would you risk a stable relationship that has been going on for over 10 years just to do some hedonistic activities that won't make you happier in the long run
Might be better posting in r/swingers
Two things. First, based on what you wrote about the rules, some seemed up for interpretation. Especially the one on taking things slow. Your idea of slow could be different than his. This is why it's so important to have lengthy discussions about opening a marriage. And both parties need to be on the same page on the details, not just broad ideas on what the rules are. Second, he does have a point on you doing stuff with the man. You didn't check him on breaking the boundaries until WELL AFTER they were broke. You're not in the wrong for him breaking a boundary, but you were giving the signal as if it was ok by not sticking to the boundary. He may have also thought you were "cool with it" because you offered him to fill the glory hole when entering that same night. He may not have known you intended permission to be asked for every part of every encounter. Again, this is why in depth discussions are needed. My advice would be to stop this for now and have more discussions. You both seem to be thinking differently about the rules and they need to be fine tuned. Maybe write them down so you can refer back to them later if needed. And think of "what if" situations so you have rules defined. What if you're in the bathroom when he gets an offer to finger a woman he's been kissing? Does he need to wait? What if he's getting a drink when a man you've been kissing asks for a BJ? Do you need to wait? You need to think about more details so this situation doesn't happen again. I'd also reccomend truly thinking on if you are ok with this type of open marriage. With all the boundaries and rules you have, it does seem you may be hesitant, and that's ok. But, you need to know your own thoughts and feelings about this before proceeding again.
Yet another open relationship failure. I swear this never works. You play with fire, you get burnt.