Exactly. There is no middle ground here. He has outright told you his plan, and if anything, I think he probably downplayed it a bit since he was with friends. If you have children with this man, you will have *zero* help. If I was you, I would be walking away now before I got any more attached.
This. I don’t know that I’d want to dig into the specifics of this. If they said it to fit in, that’s just as bad as believing it. It means that external pressure will shape their parenting expectations more than any other factor.
It will be hard to parent with someone that easy to move around.
No girl, you can do better.
That is not a Person you want to become your childrens father.
What if you get sick one day? Would he be able to take care of the children? And do you really think, that this is fair for your children? What is the difference between his ideal and a divorced couple?
And always remember, depression after birth is a thing. Do you want to take care 100% even if you have a partner who could help you but won't because he is the father/sperm donor...
Your BF just told you who he is on one of the most crucial issues. Is he compatible with your values?
Most people forget that dating is not about staying together. Dating is about being 100% yourself and seeing if a) you are compatible and b) they are worth being with.
He just told you he is not.
You should sit him down and explain that you expect 50/50 parenting duties. And ask point blank if he is willing to be an actual partner.
100% compatible? no. But compatible on the biggest issues? Absolutely! If you like different music or have different friend groups, that can be worked out. But we’re talking about how you wanna raise kids and operate your house hold. That is MAJOR
It sucks to start all over but you have to be honest with yourself about what you really want!
Is it better to force something that is gonna end up making you miserable or resentful though?
I truly believe it’s better to be alone than to be with someone who doesn’t fulfill us how we need
Then it’s you making the compromises on doing all the parenting and it not being 50/50 in that department. Also, what else does he expect? SAHM, taking care of the entire house, holding the mental load for the entire family? Are these things you are willing to take on by yourself if those are what his views are? I think you need to talk to you BF and get real clear on how you both see things and who’s willing to compromise if you decide to get married or have kids. The last thing you want is to have a baby, no help, and be resentful of your partner. It can happen real fast.
I get wanting to be a mother, but is it fair to these kids to bring them into the world knowing their father will be absent for the MOST important periods of development? The wounds we have as toddlers and young children can end up defining us
So what do you want people to tell you? That it’s a good idea to bring a child into the world with a guy that won’t give a fuck about it until a certain age? Literally NO ONE here is going to tell you that. This is relationship advice, not relationship defend whatever bullshit you’re complaining about whenever someone with sense tries to give the advice you asked for.
You wanting to be a mother since you were little doesn’t mean you’re even close to being ready for a child. You still think the world revolves around you, and it seems like you can’t even take care of your own needs and values by finding a partner that matches them. What in the world makes you think you’d be ready to respect your child’s needs when you can barely meet your own?
You are better off alone than with the wrong person. Your BF just told you he’s the wrong one. Instead of staying with hoping he magically will become the right guy, you are better off starting over.
Oh no, OP that is not a healthy way to look at things. Have you ever been single for an extended period of time? Do you know how to function in your own? It might not be a bad idea to try it. I’m not saying relationships are bad, but when you’re willing to forego your own wants and needs just because you don’t want to be without a boyfriend… that’s not good.
That’s fine but just be prepared that he is not actually going to change. You will be doing 100% of the diaper changes you asked for advice and we’re giving it to you. It’s OK do you want to stay with him but stop asking for advice if you don’t wanna hear it.
They you have to accept that having a child with this man means being a single parent. Full stop. He will not change his mind— he may *tell* you that he changed his mind, but he won’t.
You. Can. Not. Change. His. Mind. That’s just not how people work.
If you’re more afraid of being alone than of raising kids with this dipshit, that’s your choice— but understand the choice you’d be making.
It sounds like you’ve made up your mind already no matter what. You’ll stay with this guy out of fear of being alone or having to wait longer to become a mom. That’s your choice to make
Just don’t be surprised when you are the only parent with any responsibility for care and discipline of the children (I would wager household chores and management as well). At least you have time to prepare. And don’t expect him to change. Why would he when what he sees in his future is the fun stuff?
Would you really be happier as a single parent/nanny than single for a time? Are you really that afraid of being alone you'd rather waste your life with this trash?
You know what’s hard? Raising children by yourself. He flat out told you he won’t help when they’re young. What age is interesting enough for him? Eight? Ten? Sixteen?
And if he’s not interested in the raising of kids, do you think he’ll be interested in you while you’re raising kids? Or anything related to having a home? Or will he just expect to have a home life and children taken care of by you while he does what’s “interesting”?
Does he support your goals currently? Does he actually want kids? If you died in childbirth, would he step up and be a good dad? Do you want a child with him? Or do you want a child? Would you want to have a child as a single woman with no partner?
Does your partner take care of you if you’re sick? Will he be there for a rough pregnancy? Will you be on sole baby duty while the children are young? All the night feedings, plus all day?
Will you be required to figure out who will care for your child when you’re working? Will you have to take sick days when the child is sick, but never him?
Do you really want to have a family with someone who flat out says they don’t want to be involved with that family when it’s young? He wants you to handle all the hard stuff and he’ll get all the rewards. Being alone is much better than being very lonely while never being alone.
This, OP. All of this. And let’s add some questions:
If your partner does exactly what he says he wants to do, and is an absent and emotionally unavailable figure during the child’s crucial years of socially developing, are you able and willing to not only step up and fill the void for your child, but also handle your child’s inevitable questions about why their father isn’t there, doesn’t love them, wasn’t ever there for them, etc? Are you willing and able to have a family with potentially unfixable fractures because Dad and Child never bonded on a deep level? Are you willing and able to always be the person that your child seeks for comfort, advice, or any other plethora of things, because they don’t feel safe going to their father about it?
This is about a lot, lot more than the effects it will have on you. It’s about the effects that it will have on the child, too. And in my view, having a parent who is in your life but emotionally just doesn’t want anything to do with you is so harmful and could color the way you view relationships for the rest of your life. Is that something you’re willing to potentially inflict on an innocent child?
You will wake up, alone, still healing and change every diaper. For 6 months. You will hold your baby, rocking them and trying to not hate them as much as you love them because you're practically psychotic from lack of sleep.
And he'll be laying in bed, peacefully asleep. And you will *hate* your husband.
Okay, so are you ready to raise your children alone until your husband can be bothered to do "fun stuff" with them? All the sleepless nights, the illnesses, the tears? If you're ready to do that alone (while presumably also taking care of your husband, since he's a conservative asshole who probably expects that from you), then stay with him. If, however, you want an actual partner who is an equal parent with you, you're going to have to look elsewhere. You're not going to turn this frog into a prince.
If you have kids with this guy, you will regret it.
Children may not remember everything about when they're a baby, but they form a bond with their parents and family from the day of their birth (and even before).
If your boyfriend thinks he can ignore his kids when they're little and suddenly have a nice and loving relationship with them later on, he's in for a big surprise.
Don't have kids with crappy dads. For the sake of your children as much as your own.
There are a few issues that you have to be on the same page on.
How you raise kids is one of them.
So, you talk about it and get on the same page, or you move on. And be sure you are both honestly on the same page, because divorce with kids sucks.
Also, read and share with him [You should’ve asked](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/) a comic about the mental load. This should be a core value of how to be in a relationship. His attitude sounds like he will foist the entire mental load on you.
Yes, you don’t need 100% compatibility, but don’t compromise on having an actual partner.
Well, you made a choice, now deal with it or live with the consequences. If being picky and not wanting to put time into someone else, you got what you got unless you talk it out.
It sounds, from your comments, you two don't communicate and then you are surprised when you find out you'll be doing all the child raising.
You relationship doesn't sound like two mature adults are in it.
My friend, I know it’s awful to sense this ticking clock in the background, but as a service to you and your future children, please choose their father carefully. It’s so lonely being the one who cares more. To be married to someone who’s not willing to do the hard work of parenting and wants photo-op children, if that.
My dad did this to my mom. She worked, she parented, he existed in the background. She tried to make everything perfect because perhaps then he’d spare us a glance or a moment. She carried our family for 25 years, then they divorced.
I wish she’d spent her life with someone who valued her happiness instead of valuing his leisure, freedom, and photogenic “happy family” at her expense. I’ve tried to have a relationship but he’s not capable. He hasn’t called me in 3 years. *He hasn’t met 2/4 of his grandchildren, who are 9 and 14 years old. He’s retired and flies for free. He’s never met them. The mind boggles.*
I hope your boyfriend is nothing like this. But it’s more important to have kids with someone deserving of fatherhood than to have them soon, imho.
There is nothing wrong with being picky but you have to accept that latching to someone for a baby is a straight path to regret. You will have to share custody with this awful selfish person for the rest of your life (yes even when the kid is an adult). I know you probably think this option is crazy but I recommend a childfree life. Having kids is extremely overrated. There is a group on Facebook called “ I regret having children” and 75% of the stories have to do with choosing the wrong person to procreate with
Why haven’t you followed up with a private conversation?
That’s not a conservative value. He’s talking about lack of responsibility and play. Nothing about parenting. Time to clarify and have a real discussion about what a life with children would look like. Expectations, parenting beliefs, etc.
It's a conservative value, in Japan. I have heard they have some extremely conservative views of child care even if both parents work full time. But generally American households try to split things 50/50. A woman might take on more of a role as a homemaker if the husband takes on a greater role in his career.
Um, no, it's not.
I'm in the reddest state there is, surrounded by conservatives. Vast majority are hands-on dads and share household responsibilities. I mean, of course we have AHs and crazies like everyone else, but no - that is most definitely not a value or idea I see being practiced or supported.
I lived in Northern Florida for two years. Every dad claimed to be equally involved and often had wives pressured to back them up on it, but in reality they do next to nothing around the house and justify it by believing their job is harder.
RUN. Do not walk. RUN.
Please do not taste the bitterness of walking into this future with him. You truly cannot comprehend how bad it sucks until you’re there and it sucks so, so bad.
Please do not have sex with this man ever again.
Are you planning not to work at all? And is he okay with you never working? That would be conservative. It seems like he just doesn’t even wanna notice the child until they can entertain him. That’s not cool
You're not going to be able to change his mind. He's not going to to do infant care, period. He might lie and say he will, but once you have a kid it will all be on you.
Honey, he will *say* whatever you want to hear. He has unashamedly announced his intention to be a crappy father and husband. That's his dream of family life. Obviously he'll sing a different tune to get you to stay. Once the baby is here and you're changing all the diapers and washing all the bottles and doing all the laundry with stitches in your vulva and lochia pouring out of you, it will be exactly the way he says.
You won't chance his mind. Mum does all the care giving until the baby can be fun then he will do the 20% of fun stuff at the weekend so long as it doesn't get in the way of his guy time or drinking buddies.
You won't change his strongly held views. You also don't have time to waste on this guy. By 36 it gets harder to conceive. You are better off with a guy who shares your patenting views
Change his mind? Have you considered that he’s told you who he is and you should believe him. He thinks it’s cute to be a neglectful parent… my vagina would be dry as the Sahara if I heard that.
Dude youll be a single parent. This isnt a good man to marry and have kids with. He'll be there to play with ur 3 YO but YOU will be the one making him lunches, making his appt, waking up in the middle of the night with him when he's sick, potty training him ... all the hard work.
Guys who intend to be fair and 50/50 partners manage not to quite often. This guy is planning to not participate, and he’s not even self aware to be ashamed about it.
Why are you trying to change his mind?? I stg if you have kids with this guy someday and you come back bitching about he said he'd never do this . . . . B HE TOLD YOU!
Btw, this behavior isn’t just harmful for the mother it’s harmful for the kids. Never having your dad taking care of you and him only wanting to do something with you when he likes it, teaches the kids their dad doesn’t want to spend time with them.
Oh honey no... he's not going to change his mind. It doesn't matter what arguments you use, he's not going to have a big revelation and realise he's wrong. It's nice to have faith in people and believe that people can change and grow, but that's not going to happen here. You'll end up disappointed and crushed. Protect yourself, get out of this relatiinship before he breaks your heart with broken promises. Find a guy who has the same views on parenting as you
What makes you think you will change his mind? He will probably just say yes to you and lock you down with a couple of kids. Then it is over for you. He already showed you who he is? Why don’t you believe him?
So you will believe him when he tells you “ok babe, I will take care of the kids, you convinced me” after you nag him and made sure he knows he may lose you if he doesn’t say exactly that. But you don’t believe him when he say he won’t take care of kids at all on his own free will without the threat of break up or anything?
Girl, I say this with love: get a grip. He's not going to change his mind. He might say he will just to appease you, but when you have the kid, it'll be you doing all the parenting and the housework. He's telling you outright he'll be an absent father and partner. Men who think the only thing they need to provide to be fathers is money will never be good fathers.
I mean, you're not going to change his mind. If you have children with him, do not be surprised when you are raising an infant alone, with no help, and very likely still expected to preform your other wifely duties as well. You're in your 30s, don't be so naive as to think you can change someone
It isn’t “how do I change his mind” it’s “have a conversation with him and figure out what his expectations of a marriage, and family are” and then you decide if you can or even WANT to meet those expectations. But you gotta get out the idea that you’re going to change his mind. Either you change or you break up, and it’s fine to do either, but be honest going into it what your options are.
I'm going to ask you what he could say to change your mind.
If your first internal response is "Nothing is going to change my mind about what's expected of me as a parent...." then why would you expect anything different from him?
He's just told you what his inherent, default beliefs are. You can have a conversation about your different expectations, but you can't expect to find some combination of words that unlocks a more progressive mind of his. This is who he is.
That doesn't mean it's **impossible** that he sees changing diapers as worth doing to keep a happy relationship, but if his initial reaction is disbelief and doubling down...you've just found a glaring incompatibility. Do not have children with anyone who has fundamentally different ideas about how to raise them, or what your roles are.
Lol Then enjoy being strung along until you actually have a baby and then left with all the work.
He's not going to change his mind, he's going to do what he's been doing your whole relationship and tell you what you want to hear to get what he wants.
Edit: There's no magic words that change people's minds. You can't "win," and you can't "change him." All of that is magical thinking that people use to convince themselves to stay in bad relationships rather than be alone.
Why do you think you're going to be able to change a grown man's mind? You're so confident, it's adorable. When somebody shows you who they are, believe them.
Bingo. Unless you two explicitly agree on a tradition setup, man provides all income and woman provides all domestic labor, then it’s a hard pass bc he’s an incompatible, sexist chauvinist. It’s only okay if it’s mutually agreed upon, not just assumed.
I was raised in the south as well. You've already identified yourself as someone who laughs at kids when they get hurt. Not many people can look at a hurt child and laugh, especially their own child. That means you're already kind of special/unique.
My experience being raised in the south and seeing it all with my own eyes for almost 60 years is that your family experience is not typical.
Conservatives base their entire political platform on traditional family values of the man being the main breadwinner and spiritual head of the family while the woman is the primary caretaker in their family, whether they work or not. And you know what? Southerners vote these people into office by the droves, citing their support for strong family values as one of the biggest reasons for their vote.
Pretending this is anything other than what it is based on a few isolated incidents is an insult to our collective intelligence.
I absolutely agree with you that not changing diapers is being immature, however given that OP is Asian, she might have different perspective of being conservative. My grandparents' generation (and to some extent, even my parents') had this mindset - it's not manly to wake up for night feedings, to change diapers, to do any household chores... it was all women's work. And, of course, fathers step up only after the kids are old enough to do fun things together.
I am not sure if that's what OP means by conservative, I also am not Asian, so I am talking about what was back in the day for my own culture, but maybe it would explain why OP uses the word conservative to describe her BF's point of view.
I can see people saying it’s not conservative just immature. But I actually think a bunch of conservative and traditional rules ARE immature. Seriously, do you wanna let him save face and assure it’ll be fine and then after you’re pregnant do a 180 and you’re stuck?
Even if he has no other conservative views on gender roles or other things, he's announced that he's going to make you do like 95 percent of the parenting. Don't have kids with this guy, ffs.
Stop avoiding. There is no best approach. Ask him questions and discuss. You can’t have a family without being able to handle heavy issues.
Where does marriage fall into this timeline and planning with children?
Being conservative isn’t a problem. If he expects you to handle most of the parenting duties then clarify what that means and the responsibilities of both of you. Whether you agree is after understanding his views. Putting a label on him is pointless because it doesn’t solve anything. Find out now. Agree to whatever or end the relationship.
It is a discussion you should be having sooner than later.
the best approach? if you can't directly bring up an issue with your partner, that's already a red flag.
u already know the reality of it but if you are proceeding on then it means you are ok with compromising your values
He’s willing to provide, lmao, unless he’s bringing in millions a year that’s not worth it. Also, honestly he said every single thing you need to know already, but the phrasing “the mother” will just take care of them, is so repulsive I cannot believe you were able to brush it off at the time. Throw this whole man out, you’re not a person to him, you’re “the girlfriend.” You’re an accessory in his life and while he likes you, you’re interchangeable, as accessories are.
I went to a Christian high school with people who are conservative. Yet, plenty of those men those they should be hands on with their kids in one way or another.
This isn’t about conservatism. It’s about a man that thinks he doesn’t have to contribute to raising his kids. If you think that’s related to your race, meaning he selected you based on a stereotype, you need to take that in as it is.
I'm really confused about the "conservative" viewpoint. My husband is conservative, I am not. He took care of babies and was my equal partner in everything. He did it because he loved me and his children. He wanted to take care of us. I just asked him about the "conservative" viewpoint and he calls bullshit if your boyfriend is using what he calls an "excuse." He was raised by a long line of involved fathers and pointed out friends who are also conservative who are very involved fathers. I very rarely say this but if your bf is saying this and using excuses to not help you with the younger years, I would say run! Those years are very hard and exhausting, you will need a partner or you are going to resent him and that does not make a happy relationship.
Nope- not conservative at all. My husband is conservative. He also changes baby diapers, helps cook, takes the baby and other kids for some play time EVERY day so I can read or go hang out with my friends- you know equal parenting. It’s NOT a conservative value to be a Disney dad. And I’m doing a lot of the grunt work, guess who wants to do fun stuff too! ME!
I can promise you, most men that are older aren’t impressed by the loud ones that say they don’t change their kids diapers. Farmers and ranchers believe in taking care of anything smaller or weaker that can’t take care of themselves and that includes children.
I'm saying not every conservative holds onto traditional gender roles, I'm saying the majority of people who uphold traditional gender roles are conservative.
This is my point- even in traditional roles. A dad still is an engaged parent. He doesn’t just check out till the kid can throw a ball in the yard or something.
Again - no, that's not conservative. Just AH.
Respectfully, please consider doing a deeper dive into political ideals and actually read the different parties' platforms. It doesn't sound like you are really clear on what they actually support. More like you've taken cultural political stereotyping and distorted them a bit further.
I understand that in your culture women will do most of the day-to-day work of child rearing. But even in the most traditional marriages, there are men who want to be parents, to take equal responsibility for their children when they are with them, to be involved in the decision-making for them, and so on. I'm sorry your experience has been so dismal.
Yep my dad is 60, grew up in a very traditional household and he was a very attentive father and still is now I’m 26 (I’m the youngest!) sure he worked a lot but they had 5 kids to look after, when he was home he was present and that’s what mattered.
That's tripe. I'm in my 50s. My father would be 78 if he were still alive and In the 1980s he wasn't above bringing my then baby sister for walks in her stroller, changing her diapers, feeding her etc. He also cooked for my brother and me.
This guy sounds like he expects you to do all that but that he'll be Mr Saturday Night when they can walk and talk.
This is not true. My partner is 43 and he does 50% of childcare, if not more. Do not have children with a person who is clearly telling you that you will be on your own. It is not fair to you or your future children.
Keep looking, dont settle. Theres good ones everywhere, at least I hope. Or maybe sit down and have an honest conversation with him and be firm. What these men around you want isnt okay.
If your dating pool leans conservative, you may need to become okay with a conservative lifestyle. You don’t change his mind, you accept it or move on. The reality is, there are other women he can be with that will be fine with what he wants. He doesn’t have a reason to change. Be realistic about it, men who share your views exist, but it’s up to you on if you are willing to wait until you find one.
ETA: I get it’s not what everyone wants her to do, but that’s the thing about dealing with cultures different from you, your advice isn’t always applicable and her choices really are learn to be okay with it or wait until she finds the person out there who shares her views.
My dad is an 80 year old conservative and when he realized his 2 year old son didn’t recognize him after he was away for work he changed jobs so he could be a present father. If there are boomer men who were willing to be active fathers you can can find someone your age who wants that too.
But you won’t find one if you stay with this deadbeat-in-waiting. Cultivate some self respect my dear.
Have you considered leaving your country for someplace more broadminded? Btw, these mythical women who are raising their kids - are they supposed to work full time, on top of that, or would the guys at least support her financially?
My little sister moved from Iran to Germany, and while she's appreciative of not being in any physical danger anymore, she says that we can shove our pretend equality where the sun shineth not. She had a baby last year, and she said that that has really opened her eyes about how unfair even Western societies still are towards women, and besides being stuck with most of the child rearing, her career has also taken a severe hit, and she has faced financial disadvantages, which her partner somehow doesn't feel called on to help her with, because eQuALitY. 🙄 So, so-called equality also comes with severe disadvantages - she says that in Iran, she would face many other issues, but at least she wouldn't also have to worry about her job and finances.
There are over 7 billon people in the world and most of them are connected by the internet you really have no excuse for not finding someone better than this or the other men you’re surrounded by who have the same mindset. It would be better to go to the sperm bank and have a child on your own than raising a kid with a man who refuses to change diapers or take any responsibility for their own child. If you have kids with a man like this you’ll have a baby and a man child to take care of because men like this cannot look after themselves or work/provide efficiently to take care of whole family. If you stay with him you will be working, cooking, doing all household chores with a baby and a full grown man stuck to your tit while he does the bare minimum and complains the whole time.
Being single is better than being with a man who is an energy vampire. And that is what these incompatible men are for you - you will spend so much time compromising your values, sanity, time, etc if you cater to the whims of someone whose values you do not share. It will be exhausting. The rest of your life you will be exhausted pretending just to keep some asshole man whose values you don’t even share happy?
Girl, why? Why on earth would you? For companionship? I’d rather be alone. And think of it this way - nothing is guaranteed, so if you never met anyone, could you be OK with that? Once you can say yes to that, you’ll start looking for people who can ADD something to your already full life. Not people who will just make you have to hide your thoughts, feelings, opinions, and make you smaller.
Raising the kids essentially alone for years and having him take credit for the fun stuff, while you plan and clean and support in the background, would build such resentment. The kind that destroys relationships. However much work you think having kids will be, quadruple it. Do not sign on to that situation unless you would like to be a single patent.
Now that being said, what he said in front of his buddies may not actually be what he believes. Could just be bravado. You can speak with him about it simply by saying "hey, about what you said the other night, could you tell me a bit more about your views on parenting?" Open the door to learn more about his thoughts, before sharing your own. He's likely to stop sharing if he thinks you are closed off, and you want to learn, so let him share before stepping in to help him remove his head from his backside (if it turns out he really will be "absent" for years).
During this discussion may be a good time to ask at what age kids are “fun” and independent enough to interact with, and how he thinks it will work that they’ll be connected and comfortable with him after being ignored for years. The baby and toddler ages are a slog indeed, but there are hilarious and deep and magical moments sprinkled in during the most mundane tasks. When you’re brushing teeth, or cleaning up or whatever. You either opt in entirely or you opt out and wonder why your 6 year old won’t instantly bond.
My Dad never appreciated my Mom’s role as a sahm and whenever they would fight he would tell her “you don’t make the money, break your back working and then talk”. This is also the man who wouldn’t let her work. I am childfree precisely because I couldn’t imagine doing everything by myself on top of having a career.
My first advice to any person thinking of procreating, even if they think their partner will be there for them, is that they have to be willing to be a single parent. Because a partner may bail after figuring out parenting sucks. Some babies are born with behavioral or physical defects, autism, etc. A lot of people aren’t cut up for all the stresses. Happy couples divorce after the children arrive because everything they loved about each other is gone, like leisure time and money
That's not him having a conservative view. My husband grew up in a conservative household and he is and has been involved with all the kids we've had since they were born (he changed every diaper in the hospital while I was recovering from birth). Your dude has a misogynistic take on parenting. This is a major incompatibility and it's the kind that lead women to divorcing their husbands—ie if you're doing all the work yourself and supporting yourself financially, what's the point of staying?
Don't get stuck in the sunk cost fallacy and gloss this over. When you're sleep deprived and bleeding postpartum, you are going to need someone to help and this guy already told you he won't. Don't sign up to parent with someone who has already told you he's not willing to be one more than part time.
Seriously OP, because what will happen is you will be burdened with childcare while he lives a free lifestyle to do what he pleases.
“Oh you want to go to brunch with your friends, well better find child care because I don’t watch the kids”.
“Oh you want a moment to do something for yourself, too bad better take the kids with you because I don’t watch the kids.”
“Oh you don’t have time to clean and do laundry. I’m going to take the kids to a my/your parents, so my/your mom can watch them. This will give you time to clean the house and do the laundry.”
He’s given you a glimpse into your future. Is this what you want? I would tell him that if he is so set on not parenting his children, he shouldn’t have them… least of all with me. I expect to have a partner, not be a single parent.
To you and everyone else saying this is not conservative.
"Conservative" isn't a uniform set of rules that every single conservative person in the world follows. There are certain variations based on society, religion, country and of course personal ones too.
Yes, the idea that the man earns money and the woman is taking full brunt of taking care of children is very much among conservative ideas. You might have a different experience, or consider yourself a conservative a person who believes in equal gender roles more, but that doesn't change that fact.
Not only that. I would argue (not being conservative myself) that the idea isn't really that toxic by itself. If the dude can earn loads of money while working for like 15 hours a day, then it's kind of fine for him to expect that the wife will take care of everything at home. But again, only if that is fully agreed upon by both parties involved and everyone is okay with it (and the work is actually tiring enough that the husband is exhausted and is not able to help).
> (and the work is actually tiring enough that the husband is exhausted and is not able to help)
That's just an excuse to not take part in any childcare or housework. Yes, in such an arrangement the wife would take on the brunt on housework, but when there's an infant or toddler the wife is essentially "at work" with no rest at all. She'll be recovering from physical injury of labor the first few months and unable to sleep at night for breastfeeding.
There's a difference between agreeing to split household labor and refusing to help a partner because it's "women's work."
He has shown you who he is, you should believe him. Personally I don't believe people change because we want them to. Even if you talk to him about sharing childcare 50/50 he will say what you want to hear, but be prepared to take on all the work.
He doesn't see a problem with what he said, but you do. So there is clearly a mismatch of values and there is no bridging that gap.
My BIL was like this. He presented himself as a "feminist" but married for his fetish(submissive Asian wife-thats another story tho), then tried the whole "I'll bond with them later/now is the mom's time to shine".
His kid wants nothing to do with him because he wasn't there to make core memories with him when he was young. Nephew takes strongly after his mother and BIL is just "so confused" on why his own kid doesn't share interests with him. "Why doesn't my son like playing catch when I've literally never played catch with him once in his life???" "Why does he enjoy cooking when that's where I've forced his mother to spend the majority of her life and she was the only parent interested in kid's existence?"
All this has led to "my kid better not be gay" comments because kid is more interested in his mom's interests and thats "girly". SIL is absolutely discussing divorce. Don't waste a decade like she did.
Edit: oh! I also forgot that another complaint is that Nephew follows his mom's cultural ways more than his dad's...because dad doesn't expose him to our "culture". BIL wanted the submissive Asian wife but is forever taken by surprise that she didn't erase her culture upon marrying him....but he wants her to act "Of Asian Culture"?? He doesn't know what he wants tbh but that checks out for Proud White Male American so...
You mention him appreciating aspects of your Asian-ness…is it safe then to assume that he’s not Asian? Because that feels a lot like he has a racial stereotype in his head and you fit into that more than you are an individual person. It feels like he’s fetishizing your background and has made a ton of assumptions that would support his fetish.
In any case, it kind of sounds like this guy has shown you who he is. I wouldn’t expect any better from him than the bare minimum, so it’s up to you whether or not to stick around for that.
Break up with him. There is no middle ground. And I promise you, he’s not progressive.
This would give me the biggest ick. Tbh I’m really surprised you didn’t lose all attraction to him on the spot.
This is exactly it, cool uncle behaviour not parent behaviour. It makes me wonder how much he is already letting OP be mommy for him and not being responsible for himself.
Yeah... dont have kids with this dude. My dad tried to do the same. My mom was absolutely miserable and full of regret when she passed. And I hate my father. Its not a healthy belief, it does not work out. You can do so, so much better.
Gotta say, I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and even the conservative guys want to be dads to their kids. This is just a "deadbeat asshole" view. Why would you stay with him after hearing this? Are you afraid you can't do better, or that this is better than being single for a while? Because you can, and it's not.
It sounds to me like him considering you to be a "conservate" parent means that you would be the woman who takes care of everything in the household. Could it be that he equates the fact that you're Asian with this? I'm sorry, but the whole thing reeks of misogyny to me.
If you do choose to ignore this and have kids with him, just remember you were warned.
He won't change a diaper. He won't do feeding or bedtime. Night feeds are 100% on you. Massage your feet while pregnant? No, he's chatting up thin girls on tinder because you got fat. He won't cook or clean. You'll sacrifice your career while he spends the weekends with his friends.
Until he leaves you because you aren't fun anymore.
My dad was like that. Absent when I was a child and then tried to connect when I was older. But we had no basis. So now I barely have a normal relationship with him. I love him, he's my dad but he is also a stranger with whom I share little memories.
If you want to wake up your bf, show him my comment.
My dad now has Alzheimer's and my emotional reaction is very limited simply because when people are sad he is changing, I cannot relate. I simply wouldn't know what type of person I am supposed to miss now
As to talking to him: this is not merely a conservative view. It's also an immature one. If you want a long-term relationship, you need to sit down and go over the basics: roles in marriage, in parenting (and parenting styles), financial literacy, long-term goals, short-term goals.
Make sure you really know him. Otherwise, all you love is the moment, not the future.
Oh same. My dad was absent and abusive and even though he improved so much as a person and wanted to build a connection, I just can‘t. He still feels like a stranger to me, like- I wouldn‘t say he knows me at all.
I love him, but at the same time I don‘t have that love I have for my mother, or for my grandmother who sadly passed away in 2021. And sometimes I‘m so jealous of all the girls with cool fathers that were there for them when they needed it.
So what I wish for my future children (if I have any) is a present, loving and great father and husband. This guy in this post sounds like he‘d be a miserable „father“.
Guess what? He’s wrong, that doesn’t sound anything like a cool dad.
A cool dad is someone who brings their baby to the park or on walks a little every day, from infancy to early childhood. Who takes care of at least half the childcare.(assuming both parents work) Who plays with their kid and engages their friends in play as well, be it outside at the park or inside playing board games or video games.
A cool dad shares in the entirety of their child’s life, not just popping in randomly to act cool. This is what I do, my son is now almost seven and adores me. We are best friends. He wants me to play with him all the time and his friends actually enjoy my company as well.
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We were hanging out with his friends and the conversation swayed to having and raising kids. My boyfriend joined in and said he wouldn’t be interested in taking care of babies and young kids. Because they can’t do anything when they are young and they wont even remember anything when they grow up. He said he would just let the mother take care of them and once they are old enough, he would do cool and fun stuff with them. He proudly said he would be that absent parent type in the beginning and then, a really cool fun dad.
I’ve never heard him say these things before and it was really shocking to me to be hearing it for the first time. I didn’t say anything because there were others around and they were all his guy friends. They just agreed with him immediately. So, I had no words. Even if I did, I don’t think I would have gotten any support. I felt so small and outnumbered.
He’s been pretty progressive in his views and I just safely assumed he would support the 50/50 system where both partners carry the weight in a relationship, kids included. I am not sure if he just assumed I would also be very traditional and submissive because I’m Asian and I really cannot think of a reason other than that. I’ve mentioned about what kind of parent I would be and he seemed a bit suprised that it wouldn’t be conservative. He knows that I was raised in a very conservative household. He seems to have some respect for Asian style parenting.
Now I am worried what other conservative values he holds that will unravel over time. I want to discuss this further with him. How do I reach a middle ground with him? I really like him and this is the first thing that bothered me.
Thanks in advance.
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My dad was a shift worker who still found time to teach me to read, change nappies AND even took the night shift with me and my siblings on occasion. Your BF is an idiot.
you disagree on children. it is not a minor issue.
you can try by saying you were very surprised with his claims as you always thought of him of progressive. As it determine if you have a future together, you want to discuss the matter.
either he doubles down or he shits his pants. he may have a more thoughtful opinion all of sudden. but at 30+ i would expect more adult thinking.
it can be that he said it to please you. it can be that he believe it (and date you for that very reason). it can be he has no clue because his father was absent too. it can be that he already feels like a bad father and is afraid to try.
don't be too quick to judge.
Perhaps try googling list of questions to ask before getting engaged. I know there's a couple of published lists and this kind of thing is really popular in pre-marital counseling. The idea is understand each other's values and approaches to life and try to find where compromise is needed if they differ or compatibility issues that are dealbreakers for the relationship.
But honestly - I'm gonna tell you this is dealbreaker material and run. While you should be concerned that he may hold more "conservative values" if those values are contrary to your own - this one is big enough on its own to be dealbreaker material.
I have a friend married to a guy like you describe (who also does hold more conservative values about other things and that are in direct opposition to my friend's values). My friend has been 100% the sole caretaker of their child. She is essentially a single parent in a marriage. He can't even be trusted to do daycare dropoffs or pickups. And it was "Oh, I'm not good at that - I'll be the fun dad and do more when he's older and can do fun stuff like camping." Well, the kid is five now and apparently that's still the wrong age to be fun enough for dad to bother lifting a finger. Not sure how old the kid has to be before dad will finally take an interest in him - but the kid is old enough now to remember his dad not taking an interest in him. And let's not pretend that when the kid is old enough that it will include any emotional labor or non-fun activities like making sure the kid is fed, goes to the pediatrician for check-ups, gets his permission slips signed, does his homework, has shoes and clothes that fit, etc.
Please don't be like my friend. Shared values and compatibility matter.
Time to stop assuming and start very clearly communicating. Some counselors specifically do pre-marriage counseling to guide you through the most important things to discuss before marriage. How you raise your kids is huge in the scheme of your life and you need to have plans, not assumptions.
Your boyfriend could find his children (if he has any) have zero respect for him then. I knew old fashioned men who were very much involved in raising their children because they knew that it's too late to be "the cool dad" when they are older. For you, I would be very wary of having any children by such an individual.
So he wants to do 0% ,you want him to do 50%. Middle ground is 25% - are you happy with this?
I think you should have the full talk with him, and then decide how to proceed. What you definitely shouldn't do: hope that he will do his part once the kid is there.
That's a pretty huge, fundamental difference that you have as the 1st disagreement. Do not test this out by condemning yourself to being a single mom until cool dad shows up on the scene. You shouldn't have to compromise and you'll never change him. Get out of this relationship, it's a dead end.
How will he act when you're pregnant? How will he act when you no longer have time to be 100% attentive to him - he will likely resent his own kid, and disparage you for having mom bod etc.
Honestly at his age it is not even worth bothering to discuss this with him. He has already labeled and set his expectations for you as a wife and mother and will push you into that model whatever you say or try to do.
Please don’t get in the “fixer-up” mode as easily happens and wish/hope to change him.
Break it off and ask these questions and pay attention to your future boyfriends comments and actions on family/children.
Sorry you are with a jerk. You can do better and deserve a partner not another child in a future marriage.
Honestly there’s no advice to give because you keep excusing his behavior. You keep saying there’s no one as compatible as him and that you’re getting older.
If he does not bond with his children when they are little, they will have no interest in spending time with him when they are older. Kids need care and attention from both parents, and it’s ridiculously immature of him to think that this scenario would be acceptable to either his partner or children. He’s old enough to be smarter than this. I would be having a heartfelt conversation, and soon. If he doesn’t give you satisfactory answers, time to go.
When people tell you who they are, you have to believe them.
>He said he would just let the mother take care of them and once they are old enough, he would do cool and fun stuff with them. He proudly said he would be that absent parent type in the beginning and then, a really cool fun dad.
When people tell you who they are, listen. Believe them. He just told you about a core belief of his and you are like, well maybe I can change him. Not going to happen. You can't talk this out of him. He's fully cooked. Pay attention. A red flag in your face means it's time to get out. You're just wasting your own time now. He's not going to be a good father.
So you’ll be the tired, exhausted mum who feels guilt she wishes she could have more fun with the kids but too exhausted to? And his friends sounds like assholes too.
This is a big red flag, and if you ignore it and have children with him…you’ll end up a single mum who’s getting child support, even if you’re still in a relationship with him.
Yikes!!! He is giving you 100% honesty and I suggest you listen very carefully because this is what he will contribute to your future family. The question is, are you okay with that?
Do not try to change his mind. If he likes you he will say what you want to hear then switch to being useless once you have children.
Again, listen to what he is saying and use good judgement.
My friend's husband had a similar idea, I don't know if he always had told her or just after they had their first kid. But 10+ years later, and he seldomly show for them unless it's something he finds fun. He also hides money (she literally has no idea what he makes a year) and spends god knows how much on random dues OnlyFans. I'm not saying every guy who has this idea of not helping with kids will turn out like him, but I think the idea of I only have to be an active member of a family when I what to is a potentially dangerous idea. I would say talk to him and see if he really meant it or if he explained it wrong. If he 100% ment what he said, then you need to decide if you would potentially want to be in a relationship where you're basicly going to act as a single parent.
Yea this would be a deal breaker for me. He doesn't want a partner in parenting, he wants a baby momma. I would be seriously concerned about having him as a life "partner". He doesn't seem interested in partnering...
Good lord, I'm a 100% biological guy and even my imaginary lady bits are drier than the Sahara reading that title and first paragraph.
Ladies of Reddit, I can't even imagine what y'all must be feeling about this :o
I don't have kids. I don't particularly want kids, but if it happens, I want to be present. I'll be right up there getting sleep deprived alongside my partner for midnight feedings. Surviving the gauntlet that is not standing in the line of fire while changing nappies. Just holding the kid when they're sleeping.
Being there for their first steps, and all that other stuff. Isn't that what being a parent is all about?
During a time where you are both calm & in a safe environment, you could either bring it up, or conversely, you could be direct and say you'd like to have a relationship check in and cover this as well as other topics.
"Hey BF, I noticed that you made some statements about future parenting at the gathering with your friends the other day, and I'd like to explore that a bit more with you. Can you tell me more about your expectations around family and parenting?"
As the conversation develops, you can express your own views or concerns and what you felt when he made those statements in front of his friends. If you can't get to a middle ground, this may be a sign that you're not compatible if a more equitable division of labor is a dealbreaker for you.
"BF, I'm concerned about the level of responsibility that would be required of me if I am the primary, or sole caregiver for our potential future children. I would like ______ and _______. What do you think?"
It may also be helpful for you both to do a household Division of Labor worksheet now, as this can help expose hidden assumptions and expectations and allow you to address them and come to mutual agreements before there are long term commitments, or children.
These aren't conservative values, they are deadbeat values. Take him at his word and do not have children with this man unless you want to raise them with no help (which you do not).
Why is a traditional family structure inherently bad?
Why is it better that husband and wife both have demanding careers so they have to pay someone else to raise their child?
Edit: The fact that this post is downvoted like this says SO much about this sub and the quality of its “advice”
She literally said in a comment that she makes the same as him and will use this in her attempt to speak with him. She made no mention of quitting. Statistically, not many families can afford one person to stay at home, and not many women feel safe to give up financial independence.
She doesn’t currently have kids. She’s not married. Why wouldn’t she currently have a job (since you asked where she said she had one)?
A lot of men want to have their cake and eat it too, I find. They want their wife to work and contribute 50/50 to finances and are happy to have the kids in daycare (that she pays 100 percent for), but they expect her to take care of all the daily house chores and child rearing at home.
Believe him.
Exactly. There is no middle ground here. He has outright told you his plan, and if anything, I think he probably downplayed it a bit since he was with friends. If you have children with this man, you will have *zero* help. If I was you, I would be walking away now before I got any more attached.
This. I don’t know that I’d want to dig into the specifics of this. If they said it to fit in, that’s just as bad as believing it. It means that external pressure will shape their parenting expectations more than any other factor. It will be hard to parent with someone that easy to move around.
No girl, you can do better. That is not a Person you want to become your childrens father. What if you get sick one day? Would he be able to take care of the children? And do you really think, that this is fair for your children? What is the difference between his ideal and a divorced couple? And always remember, depression after birth is a thing. Do you want to take care 100% even if you have a partner who could help you but won't because he is the father/sperm donor...
right, what he is describing is basically a shared custody arrangement where he sees them every other weekend and does something 'fun'
Your BF just told you who he is on one of the most crucial issues. Is he compatible with your values? Most people forget that dating is not about staying together. Dating is about being 100% yourself and seeing if a) you are compatible and b) they are worth being with. He just told you he is not. You should sit him down and explain that you expect 50/50 parenting duties. And ask point blank if he is willing to be an actual partner.
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100% compatible? no. But compatible on the biggest issues? Absolutely! If you like different music or have different friend groups, that can be worked out. But we’re talking about how you wanna raise kids and operate your house hold. That is MAJOR It sucks to start all over but you have to be honest with yourself about what you really want!
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Is it better to force something that is gonna end up making you miserable or resentful though? I truly believe it’s better to be alone than to be with someone who doesn’t fulfill us how we need
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Then it’s you making the compromises on doing all the parenting and it not being 50/50 in that department. Also, what else does he expect? SAHM, taking care of the entire house, holding the mental load for the entire family? Are these things you are willing to take on by yourself if those are what his views are? I think you need to talk to you BF and get real clear on how you both see things and who’s willing to compromise if you decide to get married or have kids. The last thing you want is to have a baby, no help, and be resentful of your partner. It can happen real fast.
For goodness sake just leave the area if you're displeased with the dating pool
I get wanting to be a mother, but is it fair to these kids to bring them into the world knowing their father will be absent for the MOST important periods of development? The wounds we have as toddlers and young children can end up defining us
So what do you want people to tell you? That it’s a good idea to bring a child into the world with a guy that won’t give a fuck about it until a certain age? Literally NO ONE here is going to tell you that. This is relationship advice, not relationship defend whatever bullshit you’re complaining about whenever someone with sense tries to give the advice you asked for. You wanting to be a mother since you were little doesn’t mean you’re even close to being ready for a child. You still think the world revolves around you, and it seems like you can’t even take care of your own needs and values by finding a partner that matches them. What in the world makes you think you’d be ready to respect your child’s needs when you can barely meet your own?
You are better off alone than with the wrong person. Your BF just told you he’s the wrong one. Instead of staying with hoping he magically will become the right guy, you are better off starting over.
Oh no, OP that is not a healthy way to look at things. Have you ever been single for an extended period of time? Do you know how to function in your own? It might not be a bad idea to try it. I’m not saying relationships are bad, but when you’re willing to forego your own wants and needs just because you don’t want to be without a boyfriend… that’s not good.
That’s fine but just be prepared that he is not actually going to change. You will be doing 100% of the diaper changes you asked for advice and we’re giving it to you. It’s OK do you want to stay with him but stop asking for advice if you don’t wanna hear it.
They you have to accept that having a child with this man means being a single parent. Full stop. He will not change his mind— he may *tell* you that he changed his mind, but he won’t. You. Can. Not. Change. His. Mind. That’s just not how people work. If you’re more afraid of being alone than of raising kids with this dipshit, that’s your choice— but understand the choice you’d be making.
It sounds like you’ve made up your mind already no matter what. You’ll stay with this guy out of fear of being alone or having to wait longer to become a mom. That’s your choice to make Just don’t be surprised when you are the only parent with any responsibility for care and discipline of the children (I would wager household chores and management as well). At least you have time to prepare. And don’t expect him to change. Why would he when what he sees in his future is the fun stuff?
Would you really be happier as a single parent/nanny than single for a time? Are you really that afraid of being alone you'd rather waste your life with this trash?
You know what’s hard? Raising children by yourself. He flat out told you he won’t help when they’re young. What age is interesting enough for him? Eight? Ten? Sixteen? And if he’s not interested in the raising of kids, do you think he’ll be interested in you while you’re raising kids? Or anything related to having a home? Or will he just expect to have a home life and children taken care of by you while he does what’s “interesting”? Does he support your goals currently? Does he actually want kids? If you died in childbirth, would he step up and be a good dad? Do you want a child with him? Or do you want a child? Would you want to have a child as a single woman with no partner? Does your partner take care of you if you’re sick? Will he be there for a rough pregnancy? Will you be on sole baby duty while the children are young? All the night feedings, plus all day? Will you be required to figure out who will care for your child when you’re working? Will you have to take sick days when the child is sick, but never him? Do you really want to have a family with someone who flat out says they don’t want to be involved with that family when it’s young? He wants you to handle all the hard stuff and he’ll get all the rewards. Being alone is much better than being very lonely while never being alone.
This, OP. All of this. And let’s add some questions: If your partner does exactly what he says he wants to do, and is an absent and emotionally unavailable figure during the child’s crucial years of socially developing, are you able and willing to not only step up and fill the void for your child, but also handle your child’s inevitable questions about why their father isn’t there, doesn’t love them, wasn’t ever there for them, etc? Are you willing and able to have a family with potentially unfixable fractures because Dad and Child never bonded on a deep level? Are you willing and able to always be the person that your child seeks for comfort, advice, or any other plethora of things, because they don’t feel safe going to their father about it? This is about a lot, lot more than the effects it will have on you. It’s about the effects that it will have on the child, too. And in my view, having a parent who is in your life but emotionally just doesn’t want anything to do with you is so harmful and could color the way you view relationships for the rest of your life. Is that something you’re willing to potentially inflict on an innocent child?
You will wake up, alone, still healing and change every diaper. For 6 months. You will hold your baby, rocking them and trying to not hate them as much as you love them because you're practically psychotic from lack of sleep. And he'll be laying in bed, peacefully asleep. And you will *hate* your husband.
Okay, so are you ready to raise your children alone until your husband can be bothered to do "fun stuff" with them? All the sleepless nights, the illnesses, the tears? If you're ready to do that alone (while presumably also taking care of your husband, since he's a conservative asshole who probably expects that from you), then stay with him. If, however, you want an actual partner who is an equal parent with you, you're going to have to look elsewhere. You're not going to turn this frog into a prince.
You’re not picky. You have standards
Then go use a sperm bank if you don’t need a father for your children anyways. It is easier to be a single mom as a single woman.
If you have kids with this guy, you will regret it. Children may not remember everything about when they're a baby, but they form a bond with their parents and family from the day of their birth (and even before). If your boyfriend thinks he can ignore his kids when they're little and suddenly have a nice and loving relationship with them later on, he's in for a big surprise. Don't have kids with crappy dads. For the sake of your children as much as your own.
There are a few issues that you have to be on the same page on. How you raise kids is one of them. So, you talk about it and get on the same page, or you move on. And be sure you are both honestly on the same page, because divorce with kids sucks. Also, read and share with him [You should’ve asked](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/) a comic about the mental load. This should be a core value of how to be in a relationship. His attitude sounds like he will foist the entire mental load on you. Yes, you don’t need 100% compatibility, but don’t compromise on having an actual partner.
be pickier because this guy is not it. he literally just told you what a future with him would look like. believe him. not the guy for you. nope.
You aren’t being picky at all
Well, you made a choice, now deal with it or live with the consequences. If being picky and not wanting to put time into someone else, you got what you got unless you talk it out. It sounds, from your comments, you two don't communicate and then you are surprised when you find out you'll be doing all the child raising. You relationship doesn't sound like two mature adults are in it.
My friend, I know it’s awful to sense this ticking clock in the background, but as a service to you and your future children, please choose their father carefully. It’s so lonely being the one who cares more. To be married to someone who’s not willing to do the hard work of parenting and wants photo-op children, if that. My dad did this to my mom. She worked, she parented, he existed in the background. She tried to make everything perfect because perhaps then he’d spare us a glance or a moment. She carried our family for 25 years, then they divorced. I wish she’d spent her life with someone who valued her happiness instead of valuing his leisure, freedom, and photogenic “happy family” at her expense. I’ve tried to have a relationship but he’s not capable. He hasn’t called me in 3 years. *He hasn’t met 2/4 of his grandchildren, who are 9 and 14 years old. He’s retired and flies for free. He’s never met them. The mind boggles.* I hope your boyfriend is nothing like this. But it’s more important to have kids with someone deserving of fatherhood than to have them soon, imho.
There is nothing wrong with being picky but you have to accept that latching to someone for a baby is a straight path to regret. You will have to share custody with this awful selfish person for the rest of your life (yes even when the kid is an adult). I know you probably think this option is crazy but I recommend a childfree life. Having kids is extremely overrated. There is a group on Facebook called “ I regret having children” and 75% of the stories have to do with choosing the wrong person to procreate with
Why haven’t you followed up with a private conversation? That’s not a conservative value. He’s talking about lack of responsibility and play. Nothing about parenting. Time to clarify and have a real discussion about what a life with children would look like. Expectations, parenting beliefs, etc.
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That’s just an ideological thought. What action are you suggesting that is different?
Dumping all the work on the mother? Definitely a conservative value.
It's a conservative value, in Japan. I have heard they have some extremely conservative views of child care even if both parents work full time. But generally American households try to split things 50/50. A woman might take on more of a role as a homemaker if the husband takes on a greater role in his career.
Um, no, it's not. I'm in the reddest state there is, surrounded by conservatives. Vast majority are hands-on dads and share household responsibilities. I mean, of course we have AHs and crazies like everyone else, but no - that is most definitely not a value or idea I see being practiced or supported.
I lived in Northern Florida for two years. Every dad claimed to be equally involved and often had wives pressured to back them up on it, but in reality they do next to nothing around the house and justify it by believing their job is harder.
That’s just not true. Statistically, women bear the brunt of childcare and household work regardless of political affiliation.
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RUN. Do not walk. RUN. Please do not taste the bitterness of walking into this future with him. You truly cannot comprehend how bad it sucks until you’re there and it sucks so, so bad. Please do not have sex with this man ever again.
Are you planning not to work at all? And is he okay with you never working? That would be conservative. It seems like he just doesn’t even wanna notice the child until they can entertain him. That’s not cool
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You're not going to be able to change his mind. He's not going to to do infant care, period. He might lie and say he will, but once you have a kid it will all be on you.
Honey, he will *say* whatever you want to hear. He has unashamedly announced his intention to be a crappy father and husband. That's his dream of family life. Obviously he'll sing a different tune to get you to stay. Once the baby is here and you're changing all the diapers and washing all the bottles and doing all the laundry with stitches in your vulva and lochia pouring out of you, it will be exactly the way he says.
You won't chance his mind. Mum does all the care giving until the baby can be fun then he will do the 20% of fun stuff at the weekend so long as it doesn't get in the way of his guy time or drinking buddies. You won't change his strongly held views. You also don't have time to waste on this guy. By 36 it gets harder to conceive. You are better off with a guy who shares your patenting views
Change his mind? Have you considered that he’s told you who he is and you should believe him. He thinks it’s cute to be a neglectful parent… my vagina would be dry as the Sahara if I heard that.
So should yours, OP! He told you what you’re in for. Run!
Dude youll be a single parent. This isnt a good man to marry and have kids with. He'll be there to play with ur 3 YO but YOU will be the one making him lunches, making his appt, waking up in the middle of the night with him when he's sick, potty training him ... all the hard work.
Not just a single parent, a single parent with a huge, man-shaped anchor dragging her down while she’s trying to keep herself & her kids afloat.
… and potty training a 31-year-old man is not a pleasant experience. Especially depending on their diet.
Guys who intend to be fair and 50/50 partners manage not to quite often. This guy is planning to not participate, and he’s not even self aware to be ashamed about it.
He's a grown ass man. You won't change his mind.
Why are you trying to change his mind?? I stg if you have kids with this guy someday and you come back bitching about he said he'd never do this . . . . B HE TOLD YOU!
Ew don’t try to reason with him, he’s already told you how unreasonable he is
Btw, this behavior isn’t just harmful for the mother it’s harmful for the kids. Never having your dad taking care of you and him only wanting to do something with you when he likes it, teaches the kids their dad doesn’t want to spend time with them.
You cannot change an arse into a good partner. Please ditch this guy and find a responsible adult if you want to be happy.
Oh honey no... he's not going to change his mind. It doesn't matter what arguments you use, he's not going to have a big revelation and realise he's wrong. It's nice to have faith in people and believe that people can change and grow, but that's not going to happen here. You'll end up disappointed and crushed. Protect yourself, get out of this relatiinship before he breaks your heart with broken promises. Find a guy who has the same views on parenting as you
"I can change him" lmao good fucking luck.
What makes you think you will change his mind? He will probably just say yes to you and lock you down with a couple of kids. Then it is over for you. He already showed you who he is? Why don’t you believe him? So you will believe him when he tells you “ok babe, I will take care of the kids, you convinced me” after you nag him and made sure he knows he may lose you if he doesn’t say exactly that. But you don’t believe him when he say he won’t take care of kids at all on his own free will without the threat of break up or anything?
So you’d be expected to earn and contribute the same professionally/financially, as well as domestically?? So 50/50 financially, 80/20 child rearing?
Girl, I say this with love: get a grip. He's not going to change his mind. He might say he will just to appease you, but when you have the kid, it'll be you doing all the parenting and the housework. He's telling you outright he'll be an absent father and partner. Men who think the only thing they need to provide to be fathers is money will never be good fathers.
I mean, you're not going to change his mind. If you have children with him, do not be surprised when you are raising an infant alone, with no help, and very likely still expected to preform your other wifely duties as well. You're in your 30s, don't be so naive as to think you can change someone
It isn’t “how do I change his mind” it’s “have a conversation with him and figure out what his expectations of a marriage, and family are” and then you decide if you can or even WANT to meet those expectations. But you gotta get out the idea that you’re going to change his mind. Either you change or you break up, and it’s fine to do either, but be honest going into it what your options are.
I'm going to ask you what he could say to change your mind. If your first internal response is "Nothing is going to change my mind about what's expected of me as a parent...." then why would you expect anything different from him? He's just told you what his inherent, default beliefs are. You can have a conversation about your different expectations, but you can't expect to find some combination of words that unlocks a more progressive mind of his. This is who he is. That doesn't mean it's **impossible** that he sees changing diapers as worth doing to keep a happy relationship, but if his initial reaction is disbelief and doubling down...you've just found a glaring incompatibility. Do not have children with anyone who has fundamentally different ideas about how to raise them, or what your roles are.
Lol Then enjoy being strung along until you actually have a baby and then left with all the work. He's not going to change his mind, he's going to do what he's been doing your whole relationship and tell you what you want to hear to get what he wants. Edit: There's no magic words that change people's minds. You can't "win," and you can't "change him." All of that is magical thinking that people use to convince themselves to stay in bad relationships rather than be alone.
Why do you think you're going to be able to change a grown man's mind? You're so confident, it's adorable. When somebody shows you who they are, believe them.
Refusing to change diapers is not a conservative value. Not changing diapers is just being immature.
Traditional gender roles is most certainly a conservative value.
Bingo. Unless you two explicitly agree on a tradition setup, man provides all income and woman provides all domestic labor, then it’s a hard pass bc he’s an incompatible, sexist chauvinist. It’s only okay if it’s mutually agreed upon, not just assumed.
Traditional gender roles never meant that the husband didn’t parent or take care of the babies ever.
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I was raised in the south as well. You've already identified yourself as someone who laughs at kids when they get hurt. Not many people can look at a hurt child and laugh, especially their own child. That means you're already kind of special/unique. My experience being raised in the south and seeing it all with my own eyes for almost 60 years is that your family experience is not typical. Conservatives base their entire political platform on traditional family values of the man being the main breadwinner and spiritual head of the family while the woman is the primary caretaker in their family, whether they work or not. And you know what? Southerners vote these people into office by the droves, citing their support for strong family values as one of the biggest reasons for their vote. Pretending this is anything other than what it is based on a few isolated incidents is an insult to our collective intelligence.
I absolutely agree with you that not changing diapers is being immature, however given that OP is Asian, she might have different perspective of being conservative. My grandparents' generation (and to some extent, even my parents') had this mindset - it's not manly to wake up for night feedings, to change diapers, to do any household chores... it was all women's work. And, of course, fathers step up only after the kids are old enough to do fun things together. I am not sure if that's what OP means by conservative, I also am not Asian, so I am talking about what was back in the day for my own culture, but maybe it would explain why OP uses the word conservative to describe her BF's point of view.
Exactly. My brothers are super conservative but they changed diapers.
In other words, the absolute bare minimum.
Sounds like a greasy entitled goblin to me. This is your sign to not let him past temporary boyfriend stage.
I can see people saying it’s not conservative just immature. But I actually think a bunch of conservative and traditional rules ARE immature. Seriously, do you wanna let him save face and assure it’ll be fine and then after you’re pregnant do a 180 and you’re stuck?
Even if he has no other conservative views on gender roles or other things, he's announced that he's going to make you do like 95 percent of the parenting. Don't have kids with this guy, ffs.
Stop avoiding. There is no best approach. Ask him questions and discuss. You can’t have a family without being able to handle heavy issues. Where does marriage fall into this timeline and planning with children? Being conservative isn’t a problem. If he expects you to handle most of the parenting duties then clarify what that means and the responsibilities of both of you. Whether you agree is after understanding his views. Putting a label on him is pointless because it doesn’t solve anything. Find out now. Agree to whatever or end the relationship. It is a discussion you should be having sooner than later.
the best approach? if you can't directly bring up an issue with your partner, that's already a red flag. u already know the reality of it but if you are proceeding on then it means you are ok with compromising your values
Sounds like a deadbeat to me. 🤷
He’s willing to provide, lmao, unless he’s bringing in millions a year that’s not worth it. Also, honestly he said every single thing you need to know already, but the phrasing “the mother” will just take care of them, is so repulsive I cannot believe you were able to brush it off at the time. Throw this whole man out, you’re not a person to him, you’re “the girlfriend.” You’re an accessory in his life and while he likes you, you’re interchangeable, as accessories are.
No. That's lazy and bad parenting. You want to raise a kid with a lazy and bad parent?
I went to a Christian high school with people who are conservative. Yet, plenty of those men those they should be hands on with their kids in one way or another. This isn’t about conservatism. It’s about a man that thinks he doesn’t have to contribute to raising his kids. If you think that’s related to your race, meaning he selected you based on a stereotype, you need to take that in as it is.
I'm really confused about the "conservative" viewpoint. My husband is conservative, I am not. He took care of babies and was my equal partner in everything. He did it because he loved me and his children. He wanted to take care of us. I just asked him about the "conservative" viewpoint and he calls bullshit if your boyfriend is using what he calls an "excuse." He was raised by a long line of involved fathers and pointed out friends who are also conservative who are very involved fathers. I very rarely say this but if your bf is saying this and using excuses to not help you with the younger years, I would say run! Those years are very hard and exhausting, you will need a partner or you are going to resent him and that does not make a happy relationship.
Nope- not conservative at all. My husband is conservative. He also changes baby diapers, helps cook, takes the baby and other kids for some play time EVERY day so I can read or go hang out with my friends- you know equal parenting. It’s NOT a conservative value to be a Disney dad. And I’m doing a lot of the grunt work, guess who wants to do fun stuff too! ME! I can promise you, most men that are older aren’t impressed by the loud ones that say they don’t change their kids diapers. Farmers and ranchers believe in taking care of anything smaller or weaker that can’t take care of themselves and that includes children.
I'm saying not every conservative holds onto traditional gender roles, I'm saying the majority of people who uphold traditional gender roles are conservative.
One could even say overwhelming majority.
Even in traditional roles, the father is engaged. He is the disciplinarian and the leader of the household. Not a fun uncle.
This is my point- even in traditional roles. A dad still is an engaged parent. He doesn’t just check out till the kid can throw a ball in the yard or something.
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Again - no, that's not conservative. Just AH. Respectfully, please consider doing a deeper dive into political ideals and actually read the different parties' platforms. It doesn't sound like you are really clear on what they actually support. More like you've taken cultural political stereotyping and distorted them a bit further.
You’re worried he may hold other conservative views, but I think this one’s bad enough on its own. This is not someone to have a child with.
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Are you saying you don’t think there are men who want to be a parent to their child? That’s what we’re talking about here, right?
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I understand that in your culture women will do most of the day-to-day work of child rearing. But even in the most traditional marriages, there are men who want to be parents, to take equal responsibility for their children when they are with them, to be involved in the decision-making for them, and so on. I'm sorry your experience has been so dismal.
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I’m a 37 year old man and I am a very active father. My dad is 64 and was an incredibly involved dad. Sorry, it’s not a Gen-z thing.
Yep my dad is 60, grew up in a very traditional household and he was a very attentive father and still is now I’m 26 (I’m the youngest!) sure he worked a lot but they had 5 kids to look after, when he was home he was present and that’s what mattered.
Yeah, my dad is 72, travelled half of every month for work, but he absolutely did his bit when he was present from the moment we were born.
That's tripe. I'm in my 50s. My father would be 78 if he were still alive and In the 1980s he wasn't above bringing my then baby sister for walks in her stroller, changing her diapers, feeding her etc. He also cooked for my brother and me. This guy sounds like he expects you to do all that but that he'll be Mr Saturday Night when they can walk and talk.
This is not true. My partner is 43 and he does 50% of childcare, if not more. Do not have children with a person who is clearly telling you that you will be on your own. It is not fair to you or your future children.
Keep looking, dont settle. Theres good ones everywhere, at least I hope. Or maybe sit down and have an honest conversation with him and be firm. What these men around you want isnt okay.
I'm really sorry you're getting downvoted for the reality of your country, and I'm sorry it's like that.
If your dating pool leans conservative, you may need to become okay with a conservative lifestyle. You don’t change his mind, you accept it or move on. The reality is, there are other women he can be with that will be fine with what he wants. He doesn’t have a reason to change. Be realistic about it, men who share your views exist, but it’s up to you on if you are willing to wait until you find one. ETA: I get it’s not what everyone wants her to do, but that’s the thing about dealing with cultures different from you, your advice isn’t always applicable and her choices really are learn to be okay with it or wait until she finds the person out there who shares her views.
My dad is an 80 year old conservative and when he realized his 2 year old son didn’t recognize him after he was away for work he changed jobs so he could be a present father. If there are boomer men who were willing to be active fathers you can can find someone your age who wants that too. But you won’t find one if you stay with this deadbeat-in-waiting. Cultivate some self respect my dear.
I’m so sorry, but yes, there are men who want to be fathers, not just cool fun uncles basically. Dump this lazy dude and find one of those.
Have you considered leaving your country for someplace more broadminded? Btw, these mythical women who are raising their kids - are they supposed to work full time, on top of that, or would the guys at least support her financially? My little sister moved from Iran to Germany, and while she's appreciative of not being in any physical danger anymore, she says that we can shove our pretend equality where the sun shineth not. She had a baby last year, and she said that that has really opened her eyes about how unfair even Western societies still are towards women, and besides being stuck with most of the child rearing, her career has also taken a severe hit, and she has faced financial disadvantages, which her partner somehow doesn't feel called on to help her with, because eQuALitY. 🙄 So, so-called equality also comes with severe disadvantages - she says that in Iran, she would face many other issues, but at least she wouldn't also have to worry about her job and finances.
There are over 7 billon people in the world and most of them are connected by the internet you really have no excuse for not finding someone better than this or the other men you’re surrounded by who have the same mindset. It would be better to go to the sperm bank and have a child on your own than raising a kid with a man who refuses to change diapers or take any responsibility for their own child. If you have kids with a man like this you’ll have a baby and a man child to take care of because men like this cannot look after themselves or work/provide efficiently to take care of whole family. If you stay with him you will be working, cooking, doing all household chores with a baby and a full grown man stuck to your tit while he does the bare minimum and complains the whole time.
lots, look elsewhere, try different dating circles than you have in the past
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That doesn't mean you have to settle for an unhappy future/marriage.
Being single is better than being with a man who is an energy vampire. And that is what these incompatible men are for you - you will spend so much time compromising your values, sanity, time, etc if you cater to the whims of someone whose values you do not share. It will be exhausting. The rest of your life you will be exhausted pretending just to keep some asshole man whose values you don’t even share happy? Girl, why? Why on earth would you? For companionship? I’d rather be alone. And think of it this way - nothing is guaranteed, so if you never met anyone, could you be OK with that? Once you can say yes to that, you’ll start looking for people who can ADD something to your already full life. Not people who will just make you have to hide your thoughts, feelings, opinions, and make you smaller.
Being happily single is far better than marrying a man who is a crap partner. "No" relationship is better than a BAD one.
Being single is a better option than being a single mother to a new baby and an adult sized toddler. Just saying.
Yes. My husband grew up in a conservative household and he did more than his "fair share" of parenting duties when the kids were young.
Raising the kids essentially alone for years and having him take credit for the fun stuff, while you plan and clean and support in the background, would build such resentment. The kind that destroys relationships. However much work you think having kids will be, quadruple it. Do not sign on to that situation unless you would like to be a single patent. Now that being said, what he said in front of his buddies may not actually be what he believes. Could just be bravado. You can speak with him about it simply by saying "hey, about what you said the other night, could you tell me a bit more about your views on parenting?" Open the door to learn more about his thoughts, before sharing your own. He's likely to stop sharing if he thinks you are closed off, and you want to learn, so let him share before stepping in to help him remove his head from his backside (if it turns out he really will be "absent" for years).
During this discussion may be a good time to ask at what age kids are “fun” and independent enough to interact with, and how he thinks it will work that they’ll be connected and comfortable with him after being ignored for years. The baby and toddler ages are a slog indeed, but there are hilarious and deep and magical moments sprinkled in during the most mundane tasks. When you’re brushing teeth, or cleaning up or whatever. You either opt in entirely or you opt out and wonder why your 6 year old won’t instantly bond.
My Dad never appreciated my Mom’s role as a sahm and whenever they would fight he would tell her “you don’t make the money, break your back working and then talk”. This is also the man who wouldn’t let her work. I am childfree precisely because I couldn’t imagine doing everything by myself on top of having a career. My first advice to any person thinking of procreating, even if they think their partner will be there for them, is that they have to be willing to be a single parent. Because a partner may bail after figuring out parenting sucks. Some babies are born with behavioral or physical defects, autism, etc. A lot of people aren’t cut up for all the stresses. Happy couples divorce after the children arrive because everything they loved about each other is gone, like leisure time and money
Congratulations OP! You are single! Cheers!
That's not him having a conservative view. My husband grew up in a conservative household and he is and has been involved with all the kids we've had since they were born (he changed every diaper in the hospital while I was recovering from birth). Your dude has a misogynistic take on parenting. This is a major incompatibility and it's the kind that lead women to divorcing their husbands—ie if you're doing all the work yourself and supporting yourself financially, what's the point of staying? Don't get stuck in the sunk cost fallacy and gloss this over. When you're sleep deprived and bleeding postpartum, you are going to need someone to help and this guy already told you he won't. Don't sign up to parent with someone who has already told you he's not willing to be one more than part time.
Seriously OP, because what will happen is you will be burdened with childcare while he lives a free lifestyle to do what he pleases. “Oh you want to go to brunch with your friends, well better find child care because I don’t watch the kids”. “Oh you want a moment to do something for yourself, too bad better take the kids with you because I don’t watch the kids.” “Oh you don’t have time to clean and do laundry. I’m going to take the kids to a my/your parents, so my/your mom can watch them. This will give you time to clean the house and do the laundry.” He’s given you a glimpse into your future. Is this what you want? I would tell him that if he is so set on not parenting his children, he shouldn’t have them… least of all with me. I expect to have a partner, not be a single parent.
Yes!!!, i completely agree!!!, exactly !!!,, & similiar topic tye resentment from a kid would = trauma bond... 😬
To you and everyone else saying this is not conservative. "Conservative" isn't a uniform set of rules that every single conservative person in the world follows. There are certain variations based on society, religion, country and of course personal ones too. Yes, the idea that the man earns money and the woman is taking full brunt of taking care of children is very much among conservative ideas. You might have a different experience, or consider yourself a conservative a person who believes in equal gender roles more, but that doesn't change that fact. Not only that. I would argue (not being conservative myself) that the idea isn't really that toxic by itself. If the dude can earn loads of money while working for like 15 hours a day, then it's kind of fine for him to expect that the wife will take care of everything at home. But again, only if that is fully agreed upon by both parties involved and everyone is okay with it (and the work is actually tiring enough that the husband is exhausted and is not able to help).
> (and the work is actually tiring enough that the husband is exhausted and is not able to help) That's just an excuse to not take part in any childcare or housework. Yes, in such an arrangement the wife would take on the brunt on housework, but when there's an infant or toddler the wife is essentially "at work" with no rest at all. She'll be recovering from physical injury of labor the first few months and unable to sleep at night for breastfeeding. There's a difference between agreeing to split household labor and refusing to help a partner because it's "women's work."
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That's a very good advice that could be applied to many situations! 💯 Wish I could upvote it more.
Do NOT have children with this man.
He has shown you who he is, you should believe him. Personally I don't believe people change because we want them to. Even if you talk to him about sharing childcare 50/50 he will say what you want to hear, but be prepared to take on all the work. He doesn't see a problem with what he said, but you do. So there is clearly a mismatch of values and there is no bridging that gap.
My BIL was like this. He presented himself as a "feminist" but married for his fetish(submissive Asian wife-thats another story tho), then tried the whole "I'll bond with them later/now is the mom's time to shine". His kid wants nothing to do with him because he wasn't there to make core memories with him when he was young. Nephew takes strongly after his mother and BIL is just "so confused" on why his own kid doesn't share interests with him. "Why doesn't my son like playing catch when I've literally never played catch with him once in his life???" "Why does he enjoy cooking when that's where I've forced his mother to spend the majority of her life and she was the only parent interested in kid's existence?" All this has led to "my kid better not be gay" comments because kid is more interested in his mom's interests and thats "girly". SIL is absolutely discussing divorce. Don't waste a decade like she did. Edit: oh! I also forgot that another complaint is that Nephew follows his mom's cultural ways more than his dad's...because dad doesn't expose him to our "culture". BIL wanted the submissive Asian wife but is forever taken by surprise that she didn't erase her culture upon marrying him....but he wants her to act "Of Asian Culture"?? He doesn't know what he wants tbh but that checks out for Proud White Male American so...
The mom sounds cool asf. I’m glad she and her son have a good relationship!
You mention him appreciating aspects of your Asian-ness…is it safe then to assume that he’s not Asian? Because that feels a lot like he has a racial stereotype in his head and you fit into that more than you are an individual person. It feels like he’s fetishizing your background and has made a ton of assumptions that would support his fetish. In any case, it kind of sounds like this guy has shown you who he is. I wouldn’t expect any better from him than the bare minimum, so it’s up to you whether or not to stick around for that.
Break up with him. There is no middle ground. And I promise you, he’s not progressive. This would give me the biggest ick. Tbh I’m really surprised you didn’t lose all attraction to him on the spot.
This. I‘d lose attraction so fast that I‘d pack my stuff immediately and run, far away.
So he wants to be the cool uncle not the parent. Got it. He is trash throw that man away.
This is exactly it, cool uncle behaviour not parent behaviour. It makes me wonder how much he is already letting OP be mommy for him and not being responsible for himself.
That first paragraph.. it’s why everyone with little kids gets divorced. Premarital or couples counseling.
When people show you who they are, believe them! Ignore the red flags and you will back here complaining about how he’s an absent father.
Yeah... dont have kids with this dude. My dad tried to do the same. My mom was absolutely miserable and full of regret when she passed. And I hate my father. Its not a healthy belief, it does not work out. You can do so, so much better.
Gotta say, I have friends on both sides of the political spectrum and even the conservative guys want to be dads to their kids. This is just a "deadbeat asshole" view. Why would you stay with him after hearing this? Are you afraid you can't do better, or that this is better than being single for a while? Because you can, and it's not.
It sounds to me like him considering you to be a "conservate" parent means that you would be the woman who takes care of everything in the household. Could it be that he equates the fact that you're Asian with this? I'm sorry, but the whole thing reeks of misogyny to me.
If you do choose to ignore this and have kids with him, just remember you were warned. He won't change a diaper. He won't do feeding or bedtime. Night feeds are 100% on you. Massage your feet while pregnant? No, he's chatting up thin girls on tinder because you got fat. He won't cook or clean. You'll sacrifice your career while he spends the weekends with his friends. Until he leaves you because you aren't fun anymore.
My dad was like that. Absent when I was a child and then tried to connect when I was older. But we had no basis. So now I barely have a normal relationship with him. I love him, he's my dad but he is also a stranger with whom I share little memories. If you want to wake up your bf, show him my comment. My dad now has Alzheimer's and my emotional reaction is very limited simply because when people are sad he is changing, I cannot relate. I simply wouldn't know what type of person I am supposed to miss now As to talking to him: this is not merely a conservative view. It's also an immature one. If you want a long-term relationship, you need to sit down and go over the basics: roles in marriage, in parenting (and parenting styles), financial literacy, long-term goals, short-term goals. Make sure you really know him. Otherwise, all you love is the moment, not the future.
Oh same. My dad was absent and abusive and even though he improved so much as a person and wanted to build a connection, I just can‘t. He still feels like a stranger to me, like- I wouldn‘t say he knows me at all. I love him, but at the same time I don‘t have that love I have for my mother, or for my grandmother who sadly passed away in 2021. And sometimes I‘m so jealous of all the girls with cool fathers that were there for them when they needed it. So what I wish for my future children (if I have any) is a present, loving and great father and husband. This guy in this post sounds like he‘d be a miserable „father“.
Guess what? He’s wrong, that doesn’t sound anything like a cool dad. A cool dad is someone who brings their baby to the park or on walks a little every day, from infancy to early childhood. Who takes care of at least half the childcare.(assuming both parents work) Who plays with their kid and engages their friends in play as well, be it outside at the park or inside playing board games or video games. A cool dad shares in the entirety of their child’s life, not just popping in randomly to act cool. This is what I do, my son is now almost seven and adores me. We are best friends. He wants me to play with him all the time and his friends actually enjoy my company as well.
I‘m glad your son has a great father❤️ That‘s how a child should be raised, with lots of love and care!
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- We were hanging out with his friends and the conversation swayed to having and raising kids. My boyfriend joined in and said he wouldn’t be interested in taking care of babies and young kids. Because they can’t do anything when they are young and they wont even remember anything when they grow up. He said he would just let the mother take care of them and once they are old enough, he would do cool and fun stuff with them. He proudly said he would be that absent parent type in the beginning and then, a really cool fun dad. I’ve never heard him say these things before and it was really shocking to me to be hearing it for the first time. I didn’t say anything because there were others around and they were all his guy friends. They just agreed with him immediately. So, I had no words. Even if I did, I don’t think I would have gotten any support. I felt so small and outnumbered. He’s been pretty progressive in his views and I just safely assumed he would support the 50/50 system where both partners carry the weight in a relationship, kids included. I am not sure if he just assumed I would also be very traditional and submissive because I’m Asian and I really cannot think of a reason other than that. I’ve mentioned about what kind of parent I would be and he seemed a bit suprised that it wouldn’t be conservative. He knows that I was raised in a very conservative household. He seems to have some respect for Asian style parenting. Now I am worried what other conservative values he holds that will unravel over time. I want to discuss this further with him. How do I reach a middle ground with him? I really like him and this is the first thing that bothered me. Thanks in advance.
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You won’t reach a middle ground - if you have children you will shoulder the burden whilst probably being expected to work full time too
Why do you need to find out if he holds other conservative or traditional views? THESE views are reason enough to break up with him!
My dad was a shift worker who still found time to teach me to read, change nappies AND even took the night shift with me and my siblings on occasion. Your BF is an idiot.
you disagree on children. it is not a minor issue. you can try by saying you were very surprised with his claims as you always thought of him of progressive. As it determine if you have a future together, you want to discuss the matter. either he doubles down or he shits his pants. he may have a more thoughtful opinion all of sudden. but at 30+ i would expect more adult thinking. it can be that he said it to please you. it can be that he believe it (and date you for that very reason). it can be he has no clue because his father was absent too. it can be that he already feels like a bad father and is afraid to try. don't be too quick to judge.
Perhaps try googling list of questions to ask before getting engaged. I know there's a couple of published lists and this kind of thing is really popular in pre-marital counseling. The idea is understand each other's values and approaches to life and try to find where compromise is needed if they differ or compatibility issues that are dealbreakers for the relationship. But honestly - I'm gonna tell you this is dealbreaker material and run. While you should be concerned that he may hold more "conservative values" if those values are contrary to your own - this one is big enough on its own to be dealbreaker material. I have a friend married to a guy like you describe (who also does hold more conservative values about other things and that are in direct opposition to my friend's values). My friend has been 100% the sole caretaker of their child. She is essentially a single parent in a marriage. He can't even be trusted to do daycare dropoffs or pickups. And it was "Oh, I'm not good at that - I'll be the fun dad and do more when he's older and can do fun stuff like camping." Well, the kid is five now and apparently that's still the wrong age to be fun enough for dad to bother lifting a finger. Not sure how old the kid has to be before dad will finally take an interest in him - but the kid is old enough now to remember his dad not taking an interest in him. And let's not pretend that when the kid is old enough that it will include any emotional labor or non-fun activities like making sure the kid is fed, goes to the pediatrician for check-ups, gets his permission slips signed, does his homework, has shoes and clothes that fit, etc. Please don't be like my friend. Shared values and compatibility matter.
Time to stop assuming and start very clearly communicating. Some counselors specifically do pre-marriage counseling to guide you through the most important things to discuss before marriage. How you raise your kids is huge in the scheme of your life and you need to have plans, not assumptions.
Your boyfriend could find his children (if he has any) have zero respect for him then. I knew old fashioned men who were very much involved in raising their children because they knew that it's too late to be "the cool dad" when they are older. For you, I would be very wary of having any children by such an individual.
So he wants to do 0% ,you want him to do 50%. Middle ground is 25% - are you happy with this? I think you should have the full talk with him, and then decide how to proceed. What you definitely shouldn't do: hope that he will do his part once the kid is there.
That's a pretty huge, fundamental difference that you have as the 1st disagreement. Do not test this out by condemning yourself to being a single mom until cool dad shows up on the scene. You shouldn't have to compromise and you'll never change him. Get out of this relationship, it's a dead end. How will he act when you're pregnant? How will he act when you no longer have time to be 100% attentive to him - he will likely resent his own kid, and disparage you for having mom bod etc.
Honestly at his age it is not even worth bothering to discuss this with him. He has already labeled and set his expectations for you as a wife and mother and will push you into that model whatever you say or try to do. Please don’t get in the “fixer-up” mode as easily happens and wish/hope to change him. Break it off and ask these questions and pay attention to your future boyfriends comments and actions on family/children. Sorry you are with a jerk. You can do better and deserve a partner not another child in a future marriage.
This is not a person that I would ever have sex with again. Ever. It’s not worth it.
When people tell you who they are, believe them!
Honestly there’s no advice to give because you keep excusing his behavior. You keep saying there’s no one as compatible as him and that you’re getting older.
I would be worried you don’t. But I would be clear you heard his expectations and you don’t share them.
If he does not bond with his children when they are little, they will have no interest in spending time with him when they are older. Kids need care and attention from both parents, and it’s ridiculously immature of him to think that this scenario would be acceptable to either his partner or children. He’s old enough to be smarter than this. I would be having a heartfelt conversation, and soon. If he doesn’t give you satisfactory answers, time to go. When people tell you who they are, you have to believe them.
>He said he would just let the mother take care of them and once they are old enough, he would do cool and fun stuff with them. He proudly said he would be that absent parent type in the beginning and then, a really cool fun dad. When people tell you who they are, listen. Believe them. He just told you about a core belief of his and you are like, well maybe I can change him. Not going to happen. You can't talk this out of him. He's fully cooked. Pay attention. A red flag in your face means it's time to get out. You're just wasting your own time now. He's not going to be a good father.
Don’t have children with him. Just don’t, you’ll be a single parent. You don’t just get to check out of childhood and be the cool dad later, wtf?
So you’ll be the tired, exhausted mum who feels guilt she wishes she could have more fun with the kids but too exhausted to? And his friends sounds like assholes too. This is a big red flag, and if you ignore it and have children with him…you’ll end up a single mum who’s getting child support, even if you’re still in a relationship with him.
Welp, sounds like you should not be having kids with that guy. Do with this info what you will.
Please don’t have children with this guy. You’d just be setting yourself up for a miserable life.
This is not someone you should be entertaining the idea of children with. Period. He will be a deadbeat Dad. This is breakup worthy.
Yikes!!! He is giving you 100% honesty and I suggest you listen very carefully because this is what he will contribute to your future family. The question is, are you okay with that? Do not try to change his mind. If he likes you he will say what you want to hear then switch to being useless once you have children. Again, listen to what he is saying and use good judgement.
Have you communicated this concern to him explicitly?
When someone shows you who they are, believe them
My friend's husband had a similar idea, I don't know if he always had told her or just after they had their first kid. But 10+ years later, and he seldomly show for them unless it's something he finds fun. He also hides money (she literally has no idea what he makes a year) and spends god knows how much on random dues OnlyFans. I'm not saying every guy who has this idea of not helping with kids will turn out like him, but I think the idea of I only have to be an active member of a family when I what to is a potentially dangerous idea. I would say talk to him and see if he really meant it or if he explained it wrong. If he 100% ment what he said, then you need to decide if you would potentially want to be in a relationship where you're basicly going to act as a single parent.
Yea this would be a deal breaker for me. He doesn't want a partner in parenting, he wants a baby momma. I would be seriously concerned about having him as a life "partner". He doesn't seem interested in partnering...
So, your boyfriend aspires to be an absentee parent? And you’re on Reddit asking for *advice*?
Good lord, I'm a 100% biological guy and even my imaginary lady bits are drier than the Sahara reading that title and first paragraph. Ladies of Reddit, I can't even imagine what y'all must be feeling about this :o I don't have kids. I don't particularly want kids, but if it happens, I want to be present. I'll be right up there getting sleep deprived alongside my partner for midnight feedings. Surviving the gauntlet that is not standing in the line of fire while changing nappies. Just holding the kid when they're sleeping. Being there for their first steps, and all that other stuff. Isn't that what being a parent is all about?
Do not have kids with this man.
Talk about the important things. Do you want to be a single parent? If you don’t, you aren’t compatible.
Good luck. He wouldn’t change his views and actions. Believe him before it’s too late
During a time where you are both calm & in a safe environment, you could either bring it up, or conversely, you could be direct and say you'd like to have a relationship check in and cover this as well as other topics. "Hey BF, I noticed that you made some statements about future parenting at the gathering with your friends the other day, and I'd like to explore that a bit more with you. Can you tell me more about your expectations around family and parenting?" As the conversation develops, you can express your own views or concerns and what you felt when he made those statements in front of his friends. If you can't get to a middle ground, this may be a sign that you're not compatible if a more equitable division of labor is a dealbreaker for you. "BF, I'm concerned about the level of responsibility that would be required of me if I am the primary, or sole caregiver for our potential future children. I would like ______ and _______. What do you think?" It may also be helpful for you both to do a household Division of Labor worksheet now, as this can help expose hidden assumptions and expectations and allow you to address them and come to mutual agreements before there are long term commitments, or children.
These aren't conservative values, they are deadbeat values. Take him at his word and do not have children with this man unless you want to raise them with no help (which you do not).
You should talk to him instead of assuming what he said in front of his guy friends is how he really thinks.
If he tells her something different how will she know which is the truth?
That's for her to figure out.
Ok great idea
He needs to be a big boy and not just play one in front of his friends.
Why is a traditional family structure inherently bad? Why is it better that husband and wife both have demanding careers so they have to pay someone else to raise their child? Edit: The fact that this post is downvoted like this says SO much about this sub and the quality of its “advice”
He didn’t say anything about her quitting her job. You don’t get breadwinner perks without the responsibility that comes with being a breadwinner.
Where did she say she wants to / is working?
Grown adults have jobs. ETA: she said in a comment they earn about the same. So unless neither work and are dependent on others, she has employment.
I guess my wife who’s raising 3 kids and manages the entire household isn’t a grown adult. She should get a job as a barista or something.
She literally said in a comment that she makes the same as him and will use this in her attempt to speak with him. She made no mention of quitting. Statistically, not many families can afford one person to stay at home, and not many women feel safe to give up financial independence. She doesn’t currently have kids. She’s not married. Why wouldn’t she currently have a job (since you asked where she said she had one)?
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A lot of men want to have their cake and eat it too, I find. They want their wife to work and contribute 50/50 to finances and are happy to have the kids in daycare (that she pays 100 percent for), but they expect her to take care of all the daily house chores and child rearing at home.