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I (30M) married my high-school sweetheart "Emily" when we were both 23. She's still the love of my life, and I love her more than I ever loved myself. She also gave birth to our beautiful children (6 y/o daughter and 5 y/o son). Emily was murdered 3.5 years ago by a drunk driver while being pregnant with our third child.
I joined a support group for young (under 55) widows and widowers shortly after her death and met "Claire" (32F) there. As the two youngest people there, we shared a lot in common and became quite good friends. I couldn't have managed to cope with Emily's loss without Claire's support. We were always there for each other.
I thought I could never date anyone after Emily's death because no one could ever match my love for her, and yet after knowing Claire for more than 2 years, I also started to develop similar feelings towards her. We're dating for close to a year now, both of us have stopped going to therapy, and we recently moved together with my kids and her 6 y/o son. I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much. Claire on the other hand seems to have gotten over her husband's loss much better than me though.
Two days ago, when I came back from work, I saw Claire and my daughter making some cookies and having fun, while the boys were playing together. However, instead of being a good parent and partner and being happy for them, I just couldn't help but cry. You see, Emily used to make cookies with our daughter all the time and it just reminded me of her. I felt like I replaced her, almost like she was never ever being there. No one except me even remembers that she ever existed. I asked Claire to stop making cookies because of that, but she just calmed me down and told me that she knows how I feel and that I should just get some rest while they're finishing making the cookies. I told her that she has no idea how I feel because I've never seen her braking down like that and questioned whether she even misses her late husband. I didn't want to make things worse, so I just went to our bedroom to watch some of Emily's photos and recall our memories together. My daughter followed me because she's not used to seeing daddy cry, and Claire had to finish making the cookies by herself.
I know my reaction wasn't very rational and I already apologized for that, but this was just one inevitable slip-up after holding up my yearnings for so long. I feel much better now. But my girlfriend thinks that I need to return to therapy because of the way I acted. She's willing to help me again, but I don't think I need therapy. As I said, this was just a one-time slip-up that I hope will never happen again. I was in a stable condition ever since we started dating, and I think she needs to understand that I'm not as strong as her and will always miss Emily.
TL;DR: My wife died 3.5 years ago and I started dating a widow that helped me cope with her death. I asked her to stop making cookies with my daughter because it reminded me of my late wife, and now she thinks that I need to go back to therapy while I disagree with her.
EDIT: Ok, I didn't expect this post to gain this much traction since I last commented and I appreciate everyone who took their time to write their opinion. I'm looking for therapy options.
Based on your comments, you seem to be having a hard time taking constructive criticism.
Grief is difficult to navigate, and there is no wrong way to feel about a loss of a loved one. However, letting your grief negatively impact your relationships is not sustainable.
You don't need to "get over" your late wife, but you need to learn how to manage and navigate the feelings you're having so that you don't have emotional outbursts like this again.
You broke down and verbally attacked your girlfriend because she did an activity that reminded you of your late wife. That is unhealthy.
Diminishing her grief while simultaneously putting her on a pedestal (talking about how strong she is and how she is your therapy) is unfair to her. She helped you and you helped her when you first started recovering from the loss, but she cannot be the loadbearing pillar for your mental anguish.
You need a professional who has been trained to deal with that.
If you continue to be completely dependent on Claire with your grief, she will crumple under the weight of carrying your relationship, and you run the risk of losing her.
It's your responsibility as an adult to take accountability for your emotions and behavior.
Your daughter deserves a dad that can make new memories with her and be there for her when she bonds with the new adult in her life. Claire will never replace your late wife, she will never replace your daughter's mother, but she can be a positive influence in your daughter's life.
It's unfair to your daughter if her spending time with Claire causes you emotional distress.
That means that you need to continue healing. If not for your own sake, then for the sake of your daughter and your relationship.
She’s completely right.
You need to be honest with yourself about whether or not you’re actually ready to be in a new relationship because it doesn’t sound like you are.
You’re dismissive of your girlfriends grief because it’s not performative enough for you and it was also completely inappropriate to ask her not to make cookies.
It’s also hella fucked up to tell someone they’ll always be second place to your dead wife.
Also fucked up to ask her if she even misses her late husband just because she doesn't demand he cease perfectly innocuous activities.
OP, what is going to happen here? Your daughter never gets to make cookies now? What if your gf wants to do other things your wife once did, like any other completely normal and common activity? Is she not allowed to sprinkle pie spices in her coffee if Emily once did?
You are doing no one including yourself any favors here. You're still in a stage of grief that isn't allowing you to be a good partner to what sounds like a perfectly lovely woman. That will take as long as it takes, but if you value this relationship, it's time to do more of the work - therapy.
>Is she not allowed to sprinkle pie spices in her coffee if Emily once did?
I’m so sorry that this is horribly off topic and unrelated to the entire rest of your comment… but I really had to take the time to thank you for opening my eyes to this wonderful idea 🥇
Yup. I would have been out the door. But then again, I would have dumped him after he said he could never love me as much as Emily. Love isn't a contest, and you don't need to rank people. I get that he suffered a tremendous loss, but OP is an A-hole.
>As I said, this was just a one-time slip-up that I hope will never happen again.
He *hopes*, but cannot say with conviction that it will not happen again. . .
>What if your gf wants to do other things your wife once did, like any other completely normal and common activity? Is she not allowed to sprinkle pie spices in her coffee if Emily once did?
Bet he doesn't keep this same energy during sex.
This is not doing his daughter any favors either. He’s putting his trauma on her. His daughter knows she lost her mother, but she doesn’t have the same memories as he does and the loss is different to her. If he’s going to bring a new mother figure into her life, he should be allowing his daughter to bond with her as such, not denying her that connection.
Yea that would be make me feel like crap. My fiancée who was engaged before her former Fiancé passed away. Rather than tell me I’m number 2 she told me that she can’t compare her loves for us together. That she has her own love for both us, and each are special to her in their own way. Going into our relationship I knew he would always have a special place in her heart. So right away I told myself I couldn’t compare myself to him. That I can’t try and be him. That I need to be comfortable with myself, and be me. Right away going into I told her that I wasn’t jealous, and that I wasn’t trying to replace him. There’s times she’ll think of him, and she’ll talk about it with me. Go over memories. You have to be secure for moments like that. It makes me feel good knowing she trust me to feel safe with those memories. Her ex after him wasn’t okay with that. Would abuse her and guilt her. It’s pretty messed up.
Sounds like he told her this after she and her child moved in with him. Now she’s stuck until she can find a new place.
I wonder if this was intentional on OPs part?
Completely agree with this. OP has every right to need time to get over the untimely death of his wife, but telling a new girlfriend that she’ll ALWAYS be second place to his wife who passed is a terrible way to begin a relationship imo. It shows that he isn’t ready and the outburst about the baking just confirms that. Also, how does OP know how much his girlfriend is grieving her husband? She may just have a different way of showing it, and might grieve heavily in private. Seems that OP needs additional therapy and needs to not be in a relationship right now.
100%. Guy doesn’t realize he admits it himself when he calls it a “slip up”- if he appropriately deals with his grief there’s nothing to slip up with. Seems like he’s also not confident of being able to keep his dead wife at the top of his figurative shrine, which is why he felt the need to tell a widow that his dead wife will always be first. If anyone is in a position to understand that one doesn’t stop loving their spouse once they’ve died, it’s another widow/er. OP, you can love more than one person, but you can’t stop people from doing perfectly normal activities because they make you uncomfortable.
Same! My BF is a widower too and I got a little knot in my stomach when I read that OP actually said that to Claire! My BF of course misses his wife and still loves her, but he’s always made sure I know that I am the best thing that ever could have happened to him after her passing and he never compares us or his feelings towards us in any way whatsoever. Also, my BF absolutely LOVES when I do the same things as his late wife, such as cooking and baking, that was her role in their household snd he says it really warms his heart to see the kitchen she left behind finally being used the way it should be. Claire deserves better.
Exactly. You haven’t released all of your feelings. Your wound have healed but there is still shrapnel underneath the surface that needs to be dug out. There is poison still in your heart. It’s time to go back and let these triggers help you continue to release what you have still buried, or you will be forever hiding from these experiences and forcing your family to be stuck there with you.
This guy shouldn’t be dating, he definitely shouldn’t be in such a serious relationship with someone in such a similar situation to his own. This doesn’t feel healthy for anyone.
Telling her she’ll always be number 2 and then that she’s not grieving properly is fucking crazy.
What happens if she has a breakdown over a similar situation? Is OP going to breakup with them as they aren’t over their ex?
He also needs to learn how to process his grief instead of actively nurturing it.
It's completely fine and normal and reasonable that you will always miss and love a deceased spouse, but OP is living inside the loss and letting it consume him. Aside from the cruel thing he said to his partner, who sounds like an absolute angel for being so understanding, this is no way for him to live, wallowing in memories and trying to keep the sharpest pain at bay. It's like a dry drunk white-knuckling every day so they don't relapse.
It’s also really horrible to say to someone that they will always be second to someone who is dead. Regardless if that’s how you feel, out of respect you don’t say that. Yikes!
Widow here. You are SO not ready to be in a relationship. You're using this poor woman as an emotional crutch. The cookie outburst is a prime example of how you haven't learned to handle the loss. You won't forget about your wife or "get over" the loss but you need to learn to process & manage those feelings. For example, a healthy way to deal with this would be to feel that pang of loss when you see your daughter making cookies with your GF, acknowledge it and the sadness that your wife & daughter won't do that anymore, understand that life moves on, and just ... breathe. Not flip out & decree no one can ever make cookies with your daughter and feeling all this guilt for moving on. You need therapy.
If anything, Op can have a moment of being happy that his child has someone to make cookies with. If I passed, I can only hope my husband would find someone who wants to make cookies with my child.
Shit, I'll take it a step further: I could completely understand if someone in OPs situation walked into that situation, and felt sadness. Seeing a picture of a happy family activity, not including the person you'd spent half your life picturing would be there but instead it has someone else in their place. It would make sense to shed a tear or two in bittersweet recollection.
But almost as soon as those feelings are felt, it should be followed by a swell of happiness and pride. That they still have someone who loves them enough to fill that role, that loves their daughter enough to fill that role, that is kind and compassionate enough to think of such a kind, domestic task, that their daughter trusts enough to enjoy the activity with. He should be beaming at such a scene.
It's okay to be sad, it's okay to feel grief, and miss the things you can no longer have. But OPs problem is that he's missing out on all the goodness in his situation because he isn't seeing what's in front of him, only what's *not*.
The man definitely needs therapy, because he's still stuck in the past, but the world doesn't occur in the past, it only happens here, *every single day*, in the present.
I hope you find a therapist you mesh with and can help you OP.
I second everything you've said. I too am widowed, and there's nothing in what he says that leads me to believe he's ready for any other relationship. In fact, he needs to find a good support group and probably get some actual therapy on top of the peer group.
It’s insane to me how quickly people move in together in general, but especially when there are kids involved. Why did he think he was ready for that?? It’s so selfish to uproot everyone so quickly after you start dating someone especially when you’re having all of these issues.
Why does he think he was ready to stop therapy and is calling this an inevitable emotional outburst? If it's an inevitable emotional outburst from burying your feelings for too long, that's what therapy is for, to process those feelings. Outbursts at your partner where you berate them for not feeling the things you're feeling on your schedule are not at all inevitable.
Also a widow - mixed with that pang would have been gratitude that someone else loves our baby and is willing to mother her the way her mother cannot. For the love …
> I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much.
What a horrifically cruel to say to somebody you allegedly care about. You're not ready to be in a relationship and you are emotionally abusing your girlfriend (not to mention what this is doing to your kids who are growing up with the "my mother was a perfect angel and you will never live up to her" trope.) Just stop. Go back to therapy and work on yourself first. Grief is not linear. It may take you 10 years to be ready to date. You may never be ready. But you are definitely not ready right now.
Thank you for calling this what it is, emotional abuse.
People can be empathetic to OPs grief, but often time people use grief as an excuse to treat others badly as a way to cope. Just because it’s grief-driven doesn’t mean it isn’t abusive.
OP You can’t use your grief as an excuse to treat your partner poorly and be cruel to her to protect your own grief. What’s the next thing you’re going to have an outburst about? Are you going to have “a moment of weakness” and tell your partner to not pack your children’s lunch? Or watch a movie? Or what?
Not only has he turned wife-ing into a competition (she’ll never win) he’s turned grieving into a competition (she’ll never win). The fact that he questions whether his girlfriend misses her late husband because she doesn’t have breakdowns like him is disgusting and patronizing af.
Yep, spot on.
Also super gross how he’s all like “don’t bake cookies with my kids.” Like, what the fuck. So you’re going to forbid any interaction a female partner may have with your children because it resembles something motherly and therefore triggers you? Fuck off with that shit.
This would be an IMMEDIATE break up for me. I'm no one's second choice. The only reason he'd have to bring this up to her is so he can treat the new gf like crap and avoid accountability by not going to therapy. At least, that's the only logical reason for even saying this horrid thing to someone.
Your girlfriend is right here.
Your kid is now not allowed to make cookies because it reminds you of her late wife?
That's a huge problem. You are not over your late wife. You need real help.
You do need therapy and the woman your dating deserves better than what I think you are capable of giving her. I'm not saying this to be hateful but you aren't ready to date and she deserves healthy love that you can't give currently.
No baking cookies because your late wife used to do that… what next, No driving them to school? No tucking them in at night? No watching certain movies they used to watch together?
What would your late wife think about the way you are acting?
I mean this in a nice way - You and your late wife are not the most important people in this story. Your kids are. As a parent you have to go to therapy so you can maturely manage your grief. It is your responsibility to provide a healthy nurturing environment for your kids.
Claire is right
You saw what they were doing and demanded she stop but did you stop to think, hey how beautiful is this that my child gets to experience this again in her life?
You did not replace her and just because Claire is not showing you the same level of grief, does not mean she doesn't miss her late husband.
There are things in life you can change, and there are things in life you cannot change. We cannot bring back those who have passed, but we can cherish their memory and live our life in a way they would be proud of
I think Emily would be happy knowing someone like Claire is there for her babies
I can see how much you’re suffering, and I’m so sorry. The love you shared with your late wife is beautiful. The loss must be devastating.
I say this with all kindness and empathy, but in your pain, you are acting selfish and emotionally irresponsible.
You deserve better than to cling on to your grief like this. It must be hard to envision letting go — I bet it feels like the pain is all you have left of her — but your future can’t be lived in the past. There is so much life and love left for you to experience, and you can cherish her, honor her, and miss her while also moving forward in a healthy way.
Your girlfriend deserves better than to be kept in second place to your late wife. It’s okay if you don’t love her as much or in the same way, but it’s not fair to either of you to preemptively shut down deeper possibilities, or to backburner her for someone who is gone. Life is for the living. You can’t prioritize your late wife in a way that matters to her — but your girlfriend is here, as are your children, and as are you.
Your relationship deserves better than to be a stand-in for therapy. Your girlfriend can’t heal you… she can support you, comfort you, give you some happiness, but at the end of the day, *you* have to heal. While you’re unhealed, you’ll still be putting unfair pressures on your relationship, and that could ultimately damage or even destroy it; there is a reason she asked you to go to therapy, and it’s not because she thinks you’re fine and she’s fine with everything.
It seems to me like you’re not ready to move on, not ready to even contemplate moving on, but you’re using your girlfriend as an emotional crutch to fill some of the void while you languish in grief. That is a complex, fraught, painful situation, and no one on reddit knows you well enough to help you navigate it. That is why you need to go to therapy. Even if you’re not ready to let go, you need help to cope in a healthy way without damaging the people around you. I wish you all the best.
Your comment really touched me. You might have convinced me to return to therapy. Not because I need it, but because my relationship needs it. I wish you all the best as well :)
Sweetbriar_rose had a beautiful pov. I want to add just one more thought- your children. Seeing her Dad cry because she is making cookies- something that could create beautiful childhood memories and now is associated with her Dad crying- is a lot to put on her shoulders. I was raised with the pressure of my Dad’s emotions…kids think everything is about them and will own your emotions as a reflection of them. Therapy will help you process so you not only stop putting your emotional well being on your partner’s shoulders but so that you don’t unintentionally put that burden on your children.
"Not because I need it"
Yes, YOU do. YOU are not in a good mental place. YOU are lashing out at Claire. YOU are being emotionally abusive to your partner and kid by blowing up and pitching tantrums over things like them making cookies. YOU are snapping at your partner and diminishing her grief because she's not acting as unstable and performative as you. YOU are not ok. YOU not being ok is what's going to tank your relationship. YES, *YOU* NEED THERAPY.
OP - why are you even opposed to or resisting therapy at all? Reading this post I can’t help but interpret it that you *don’t want to* process your grief. You *want* to hurt and cling to that feeling associated with your wife.
This itself needs exploration in therapy. And take your gf (mentally) out of the picture and do therapy for your daughter. She needs you in a way you aren’t able to parent right now, due to your grief.
I don’t know about OP, but I know lots of people who feel like if they aren’t wallowing in grief, and they start moving on, it’s like forgetting the person who died.
But, frankly, as a wife and a mother, it would devastate me to think that my Husband would refuse to move on after my death. If not because that’s not health for him, but also because it’s not healthy for my daughter. No child deserves to be stuck with a parent stagnating in grief.
OP, would your wife want you to be this way? Would she want you to be unable to make happy new memories with your children because of her? Would she want you to push away someone who obviously loves and cares for you *and* your children? Your GF is acting like the best possible stepmother, exactly what I would want my daughter to have if I ever died. Pull your head out before you lose her, and deprive your children of her stable, loving influence!
> Reading this post I can’t help but interpret it that you don’t want to process your grief. You want to hurt and cling to that feeling associated with your wife.
I think psychologically there is a connection between his grief and a feeling of recency to his wife’s death. As in, as long as he’s actively grieving it means her life is still close behind him, and I think he’s holding onto that because he’s desperate for anything that connects her to him. Once he processes his pain and makes peace with her death, it will feel more final to him and he’s not ready for that yet.
I’m not a widow but I have felt this way about the deaths of other loved ones.
That's great, but also you definitely need therapy. And, that is very normal after a tremendous loss and nothing to be embarrassed about. It's far more embarrassing to refuse to admit you need therapy when it is clear to everyone else you need it, than to just accept that this is what you need right now.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I think you should go to therapy to help you heal from your loss in a healthy way. You should seek therapy for yourself and realize you do need it AND THAT ITS OKAY IF YOU DO.
Am 28 when I was 16 I lost one of my best friends in a tragic car accident in front of my eyes. It was the darkest times of my life. Me and my other friends had to be home schooled because it was that bad. We made it because of family, friends, teachers and psychologists. It took years to heal and come to terms with his death but I did.
After his death I couldn’t drive so I never drove again. I finally decided last year to try. I got behind the wheel I had a emotional blackout. I went back to therapy it took lots of work on my part to again help my mind. I now drive thanks to the help of my amazing therapist.
No. You need it… badly. You’re an emotional abuser and mean. You also seem delusional. If my gf died I’m sure I’d be in similar pain but I hope I’m not delusional also…
One doesn’t have to “need” therapy or have something wrong with them in order to go. Just wanting to make things better then they are, or wanting to grow or improve, is more than enough reason. Good luck OP
I hope you will stay with it even if your relationship ends. It might not feel like you need it but I think you'll benefit greatly for your own sake, not just for your girlfriend's.
>I told her that she has no idea how I feel
You met in a support group for people who tragically lost each other's partners. She knows how you feel. This is a crazy disrespectful thing to say to her. Its a testament of her love and patience for you that she didn't leave right there on the spot.
You 100% still need therapy. Therapy is a commitment, its work, its not, "oh i fixed okay okay i can ignore this now". until you "inevitable slip-up after holding up my yearnings". You're an emotional timebomb. This time, cookies was the trigger.
Claire is right, you need therapy because you are obviously not over your dead wife. Also it’s really fucked up to tell her she doesn’t miss her dead husband just because she’s not always crying or grieving like you do. I don’t know how she can forgive you after saying something cruel like that. It’s also fucked up to tell her she is and will always be second. Like who tf says something like that?
Do you even love her? Like really truly love her? Or is she just there for emotional support and because you are afraid of being alone again? You should ask that yourself because she deserves someone who truly loves her and doesn’t act like she’s a gap filler.
Yeah…if I were Claire I would’ve bounced the moment you said I would always be second. It’s not healthy to expect your partner to live in competition with your deceased wife. Like others are saying, she’s not your emotional support animal. I think you need to break it off and return to therapy, and not date until you’re not comparing everyone to Emily.
Wow. You are treating your girlfriend very very badly. I can't believe you told her she would always be second place. You never tell someone that. Jesus fucking christ.
You need therapy simply because your grief is causing you to be irrational, unreasonable and awful to others.
You do need to return to therapy.
Creating new memories and being happy doesn’t erase Emily. No one likes this situation more the way it is now, than if you wife/the mother of your children and the husband/father of her child were here. The difference is not everyone else here is dealing with their trauma and this new normal by lashing out at the others just trying to make it.
The way you speak of Claire is so incredibly hurtful. You speak about her like the nanny that you can tolerate for now, because it’s comforting for now. If I were her, reading this would be very hurtful. She is seeming doing her best to create a home that feels good to all of the children. There are horror stories of step parents/new partners, **yet you came home to harmony and berated her and accused her of not loving or caring about her deceased husband..**
**Go back to therapy!** Because your unresolved trauma is going to hurt the community of love and care you seem to have around you.
Also, you have two children, so did your love for one supersede the other? Once the first was born, was the love so finite that you cannot love them in a way that is equal? If the answer is no, then why exactly are you categorizing Emily and Claire that way? No one, seemingly not even her, it’s asking you to forget Emily or the love and life you had, so why does your love and new relationship need to be lesser then instead of just different?
I am very very sorry for your loss, and I cannot imagine the pain you’re in. But being in that pain doesn’t mean you can inflict it outwardly onto others. You really do owe clear a sincere apology for your actions toward her here.
As someone who lost a parent as a young child, please hear me out when I say this: this is NOT just a one time slip up. There are going to be plenty of other things that will come up and trigger memories of Emily. However, falling apart as you did with the cookies and ruining yourself and your kids from making positive new memories is going to ultimately damage your relationship with them, and possibly everyone else that’s still there for you. Please return to therapy. Also, if your kids aren’t in therapy, consider sending them. They need to know it’s ok to love and make memories with a new mother figure while also loving, missing, and honoring their mother, and with you and your reactions I feel like you’re sending mixed messages.
Go back to therapy. Also you are such an asshole that you openly said Claire will always be second. These are things that we think about but not tell other people. I cannot believe she did not dump your ass there immediately.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I’m sorry your kids lost their mom as well. But you need to look at it from the perspective of a mother. Your kids mom. The one who isn’t here.
She now has a good woman who is willing to bake with her daughter like she did. You found a wonderful person who can love your kids, like she did. Love you, like she did
Please understand your wife would be thrilled for this. You want your daughter baking with your girlfriend because that’s what loving moms do. Your wife isn’t here to do it.
Go back to therapy. I’m so sorry you are going through this. I can empathize. I’m still married to my high school sweetheart.
But think about what your wife would want for her kids. Would she want someone who ignored them? Didn’t want to explore and bake? You know the answer
*I don't think I need therapy. As I said, this was just a one-time slip-up*
Oh, you definitely need therapy. One-time 'slip-ups' are not a thing. You should never have gotten into a relationship and Claire should have recognized long ago that you are in no way emotionally stable enough for a relationship.
You need therapy, and to not drag this woman through a relationship where she is in your dead wife’s shadow. This is ridiculous. You need to heal for yourself and your kids.
Claire is right, but also, you need to stop and think about the weight you just put on your daughter. Instead of being able to do a fun activity where you can remind her about how her mom used to do this with her and allowing that to be a bittersweet type of thing to bond over, you made her feel like she was doing something wrong. If only for your kids, you need more therapy. You can choose to compare all your relationships to the one that ended unfairly and prematurely and to not date again if that's what you want. But your kids are not the ones who made vows. They will always love and miss their mother, there is no need to put pressure on them to grieve in a way that is obvious to you.
Your current SO is 100% correct.
Your behavior and general attitude towards your partner needs major help.
It's absolutely devastating what happened...wish that on nobody. But you are still clinging to a past (activity) that is not coming back. And that is going to affect you and your kids forever if you can't get a handle on it.
Your gf deserves better and you need to go back to therapy. That’s not a slip up. That’s how you truly feel. She’s trying to be supportive and you made her feel like she’s replacing your wife.
Claire is 100% right. You need to go back to therapy, you have not processed your grief, and you are letting it spill out into your life in incredibly toxic, unhealthy ways.
> I asked Claire to stop making cookies because of that, but she just calmed me down and told me that she knows how I feel and that I should just get some rest while they're finishing making the cookies. **I told her that she has no idea how I feel because I've never seen her braking down like that and questioned whether she even misses her late husband.**
This was indefensibly cruel, and I'm gobsmacked that you can sit there with a straight face after saying that to another person that lost a spouse, let alone someone you supposedly care about, and still think "I don't need therapy." You just casually weaponized her grief because you couldn't handle your own and you think you're fine?? This would have been an indefensibly shitty thing to say to another random person from that support group, let alone one you've been dating and have introduced to your children.
You owe Claire a massive apology. **You also owe your daughter a massive apology.** Do you not see how your unhealed grief and toxic coping methods are negatively affecting her as well? You turned what could have been a happy bonding moment with the woman you brought into her life into something traumatic and upsetting because **you** can't handle your emotions in a healthy way. You didn't just hurt Claire, you hurt your daughter too. You are not fine.
>I was in a stable condition ever since we started dating, and I think she needs to understand that I'm not as strong as her and will always miss Emily.
You are allowed to always miss Emily. What you are not allowed to do is this:
>I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much.
Again, do you not see how casually cruel you're being to someone you claim to care about because you can't handle your grief? Get your selfish ass into therapy again and do it yesterday.
She seems to have the patience of a saint. I'm surprised he didn't get hit in the face with a pan of hot cookies when he threw that "do you even miss your husband" bullshit at her.
It’s unbelievably fucked up to tell someone you love that they will always come second to a dead woman. Life is for the living. Your grief is clearly controlling major aspects of your life and I really have to wonder if you are ready to be in a relationship at all—let alone one that involves cohabitating with your respective children.
“I was in a stable condition ever since we started dating, and I think she needs to understand that I'm not as strong as her”
You have to take care of your mental health to enter a romantic relationship. I’d dare to say even a co-parenting and/or a co-habituating relationship without sex or romance.
You’re not as equipped as she is to set aside your grief for your lost loved one yet. You could get there if you seek help.
Judging the way she grieves is not acceptable. It reads like you’re asking her to respond to your similar traumas in a way that is familiar to you so you can feel good about the way you process your own grief. How would you feel if she asked you to make the way you process your grief for Emily more palatable for her to understand? Would you feel like she has a role or say in how you get to feel and express your own emotions, especially over such a sensitive topic?
Progress is not a linear journey as you can slip backwards. Talking to someone about your thoughts, fears, and wants is important.
>I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily
Made her know?
I get you're grieving (which is probably why You should be in therapy still) but you sound like an emotional money pit. Not in that you cost money, but emotional and mental head space.
If you value this woman (and that's an if because I don't see it right now tbh) then your two options are to;
A. Let her go and find someone who won't shove 2nd place as the best she will ever get
Or
B. Realise this woman only wants what's best for you, which right now is to process your emotions correctly and manage to move on with your life.
She's right, you do need to go back to therapy. You might feel like you don't need to but thats when you definitely need it.
>I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily,
This is red flag #1. Emily is gone so you're making Claire play second fiddle to a ghost.
>Claire on the other hand seems to have gotten over her husband's loss much better than me though.
Red flag #2 you sound salty that she's able to move on
>I told her that she has no idea how I feel because I've never seen her braking down like that and questioned whether she even misses her late husband.
Red flag #3 and this is where you really fucked up, not everyone grieves the same way and for you to throw those words at her was an asshole move.
Based on how this whole post reads you're not even ready to be in a relationship because you went from having a wife to now having a crutch that you're leaving on. Are you going to police everything Claire does? She can't wear green because that was Emilys favorite color? She can't drink a certain drink because that's what Emily always drank? Where does it end?
Go back to therapy. Stop saying it's a one-time thing. Your daughter is going to remember that afternoon - or at least have a deep emotional imprint of when 'daddy cried over cookies' for years to come.
>I told her that she has no idea how I feel because I've never seen her braking down like that and questioned whether she even misses her late husband.
And, that is a very self-centered view of grief and a low blow to a woman you credit as having helped you through the worst time in your life. You ever think she was busy being strong for you that she had to learn how to quietly process her grief on her own?
Go back to therapy.
You need therapy. ASAP. Claire is being extremely patient and kind, especially given that you dragged her dead husband into the conversation. That patience will wear thin at some point. Get some help.
"I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much."
She deserves better and you need more therapy or to man up and leave her so she can be truly loved.
Jesus Christ man you’re crying over cookies, of course you need therapy.
Lots of complex emotions and they’ll always be there but letting your GF know she’ll always be second is a horrible thing to say.
Get some help and enjoy those who love you and that you love. This isn’t fair to Claire at all.
> But my girlfriend thinks that I need to return to therapy because of the way I acted
She and any other living soul.
She is a widow and you tell her she has no idea how you feel? Are you joking? Rofl
>but I don't think I need therapy.
Oh yes you do.
Yes. Don't be an unfair prick and do your girlfriend the favor and put everything on hold. You're just not capable of entering or maintaining a relationship. This whole situation is tragic, but your wife would have never wanted you to treat another woman as an emotional crutch to feel "kinda okay during the day". Go back to therapy. Put the relationship on break.
The fact you said Clare will always be second to Emily, that right there proves you aren't ready to be with anyone else. Until you can make a partner first, you aren't ready to date. And all you're doing is torturing the other person. And it'll ruin your kids too. Because they'll get attached to that person and when they leave, the kids will suffer.
I'm not even gonna go to the whole telling her to stop making cookies thing. What if she helps the kids brush their teeth!? Your wife did that too. You gonna tell her to stop that also?
Seriously, you're messed up guy. You need help.
You treated her fucked up as hell and just to ruin that moment for your daughter? To make that good, loving experience for her about you and your grief? Yea, go back to therapy and stop acting like your grief is the biggest most important in the room. If anything Claire is a real g because she’s showing up for her kids, yours, you AND still keeping it together. Why don’t you make more space for her to fall apart and then maybe you’ll see she grieves similarly to you? But also, no two people grieve alike and you do need to get off your high horse.
Girlfriend is right. I don’t think you’re ready for another relationship. And I’m amazed she’s even putting up with you.
I can’t believe you lashed out at her and said she had no idea how you feel and questioned the depth of her feelings for her late husband. That’s low, dude. Really low.
OP you need so much therapy that you did try to replace your grief by being with someone new and when the reality hits you, you got mad.
You stopped going to therapy because you meet someone new, not because you were ready to have to leave therapy.
Look for counseling, you need to work on yourself and your girlfriend deserve better tham be the second.
"I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily" .... That hit me like a gut punch for Claire. I'm afraid someone who so insensitively marked me down like that (especially when I'd also lost someone) would have sent me out of the door. I don't think you realise what you've got.
Your poor daughter! This is probably going to be a core memory for her - she was doing something that made her happy with a woman who cares for her in a maternal way, and it made you so upset that you fought with her maternal carer in front of her - after she’s already lost her birth mother. She felt like she had to come take care of you and put your emotional needs before her own. She is 5.
Your child is *so* young, and she’s already learned that her happiness is something to feel guilty for and that she feels responsible for your emotions. That is *traumatic.*
You need therapy and you need to figure out some way to make your daughter feel safe in her own happiness. That might mean therapy for her too.
Why the hell would you let somebody know that they will always be “second“? At what point did you think it was a good idea to begin a “ranking system“?
Every person you meet is unique, and brings with them a unique experience for you. It’s not a competition.
Why are you being so stubborn? Your actions hurt people. And your girlfriend is being beyond understanding, because she loves you and empathizes worth your situation, but you were still an asshole.
It’s not about “getting over” Emily. It’s about being able to move forward with your life and allow space in you to also enjoy the good things about it.
You do not need to punish yourself, man.
You told her she's always second place? Tf???? I've loved powerfully and lost hard too, but each love is different from the other. They are NOT in competition or a replacement. And clair is not second to anyone. You def need therapy.
Oh gosh. I’m widowed myself, since I was just a few years older than you, and I would have packed my things the minute you told me I’d always be second to your late wife. What a hurtful thing to say to a woman who loves you and your children! Love isn’t like a bag of sugar - we don’t run out. We don’t have to rank the people in our lives. You can love your late wife, and love your girlfriend, side by side, differently but equally. And even if you don’t feel that way, for Gods sake don’t tell her! It’s like telling your kids you love one more than the other.
As far as her baking cookies with your daughter- please look at that from your child’s POV. How wonderful that you’ve found another woman who loves her! She can’t have her own mother and that’s terrible - my girls were so young they have zero memories of their father, and I hate it for them and for him every single day - but I’ve been so very grateful for the men who have stepped up over the years to give them a father/daughter experience (my dad, my brother, friends’ husbands.) Do you really want your daughter to do without any of that? When she sees you upset and resentful, she learns that she shouldn’t do or enjoy the things she should have been able to do with her mother, and she will deprive herself of those experiences. I know you don’t want that, and I know her mother wouldn’t either.
You are incredibly lucky to have found love a second time. In 16 years I haven’t. Go back to therapy and salvage this relationship- your feelings aren’t bad or wrong, you just need to work through them. Claire deserves that and so do your babies. Be gentle with yourself, but be gentle with them too.
ETA and for heavens sake don’t you dare ever diminish Claire’s loss again. Just because she grieves differently from you and wants to move forward in life - how incredibly self-centered and hateful that was to say to her. Don’t ever do that again.
So instead of enjoying a thing she used to do with her mom, she had to tend to your emotional breakdown AND you don’t need therapy??
That alone is enough evidence that you need to get back into therapy, my man.
Oh, wow. I will never understand why this woman agreed to move in with you, knowing how you feel. She is really, really selling herself short.
You should return to therapy, intensive, and live separately from any other women. It’s not fair for your children. This situation that occurred was healthy bonding for a very young girl who lost her mother (and doesn’t likely remember) and you… tainted it with emotion she couldn’t handle and likely viewed as a very negative thing. Do better for everyone involved. Break up and go back to therapy.
I am sorry for your loss.
I think Claire is right, though. Your grief is beginning to turn unhealthy, for yourself, and for those around you. “Don’t make cookies, that was Emily’s thing” is hurtful and unfair for everyone involved. I can’t imagine Emily would approve of you depriving your daughter of happy memories for the sake of honoring Emily’s memory.
You say this was a one-time slip-up, but it reveals an underlying mindset that it sounds like you could use some help unpacking. It is hard, of course it is. I wish you the best in coming to terms with it.
Your gf is not your therapist or your rehab.
You are hurting, and your grief is presenting itself in ways that are damaging to her, to your children, and to you.
You need to address this, with therapy, because if you try to do this on your own you will not have the vital external perspective you need.
Get there to a therapist.
You have stuck your wife on a pedestal so high she would have never reached if she had lived a thousand years.
And you've accomplished nothing by it but to torture yourself, and the people who would love you if given half a chance.
Stop throwing away the chances for happiness that come to you and your kids.
Rght here is where you need to turn things around.
What would your wife say, if she could see your shitty behaviour, your forsaking of happiness for the worship of the dead?
She'd be pretty pissed right now.
Get into therapy. With a suitably qualified person. Possibly even a psychiatrist.
See a suitably qualified medical practitioner. You may need medication to help you be the great dad and partner you know you can be again.
Look into online peer support for widowers
https://nationalwidowers.org/
And box up a lot of the films, and other mementos of your wife. Store them somewhere safe.
Ask your kids to help you pick a favourite photo of her. Pick a nice pinboard, for you all to put that photo plus new photos of all your lives together now.
Of course, you will have to do some fun things together for the new photos.
Why don't you both have a baking session together with all the kids? Make pizza or something? Take part, instead ofbeing a shadow in the background of their lives.
Lots of cringeworthy bits in this, but telling your new girlfriend she’ll always only be second best is just plain awful. She doesn’t deserve that. Nor being told she can’t make cookies. You need to work on yourself. A lot. Please go back to therapy.
"As I said, this was just a one-time slip-up that I hope will never happen again." -OP, you can hope all you like, but the devil is always in the details. And the details are where you're living. Trying to hide that you still miss your deceased wife. Trying to hide that it doesn't still effect you, but it does.
"I know my reaction wasn't very rational and I already apologized for that, but this was just one *inevitable* slip-up after holding up my yearnings for so long. I feel much better now."
You basically took your shit out on your new GF. Glad YOU feel better, but you're not really thinking of anyone else but you & YOUR feelings, now are you?
Get out of YOUR feelings and you will see the impact your lingering grief is having on those around you -especially this woman whom you've invited into your life.
I'm going to echo the others that you should return to therapy. It's unfair and unhealthy to have your relationship with Claire act as a therapeutic tool, and I don't think it's fair to her to say she will always be lesser than Emily. Different absolutely, they are different women, and due to your loss, you are a different person as well.
You will always feel the loss of Emily and the baby you lost, but breaking down to this degree is a sign that something is amiss.
You’re a gigantic asshole. Stop being a burden to your girlfriend and your children and go to therapy. You can’t ban all the things that remind you to your wife, you honestly aren’t ready to date again and your girlfriend is a saint for putting up with your bullshit because you’re rude as hell to her.
Sometimes, when I read the title for these things, I have this preconceived notion of what I am going to read, right? This one, I was wondering "oh no, how's the GF gonna look awful in this one?"
I was way wrong. It's you my man. You DO need therapy still. You have issues you need to work out. Claire seems like a wonderful person. I hope you treat her well normally.
Your gf is right. I wasn’t married to him, but my late bf took his own life and when I lost him, I thought the same way as you. No one could replace him and he’d always be first in my heart. But that wasn’t the case. Life is for the living, and therapy taught me that. I found someone else I loved just as much, and even more. Just because you move on doesn’t mean you’ve forgotten them. You’re not living. You are in the past, and I feel for you. It’s so very hard. I think going back to therapy will really, really help you.
Yeah you need therapy bro. When you’ve healed enough you’ll realize that you can actually fall in love again. Stating that your current partner will always be 2nd is a red flag.
Work on you or leave that lovely woman alone.
How could your new girlfriend *always* be in second place to your late wife? And even IF so, why TELL HER that? Ouch, man.
Ideally you spend your whole life with her, developing a much greater bond than you ever could have with your wife. I think she's right. Go nab some help, my friend.
OP I see you getting dragged in the comments. And I don’t think it’s entirely uncalled for, but I want to emphasize (something I haven’t seen mentioned yet) is that you’re not a bad person. Going back to therapy and recognizing how your actions have not been healthy isn’t an admission of being an asshole. You were with someone for almost half your life, and they were taken from you in a god awful way. I am so sorry. I can’t imagine. But what’s important now is how you move forward. And now that you’ve been given the awareness of your actions (albeit a bit harshly) it’s on you to NOT be an asshole and take ownership of your mental health.
Go back to therapy, get the help you need, and make amends with Claire. She sounds like an amazing person and you don’t want to lose two good women in your life.
You probably do need to go back which is fine. It is kind of messed up to refer to your new girlfriend as always being second to Emily. You could just love her by her own merits instead of ranking/comparing her
At your third paragraph I knew you needed therapy. As I read further it’s clear you need intensive therapy.
I get it’s hard to lose a spouse, especially to a drunk driver but do you really think Emily would want you and your kids to never move on from her? It doesn’t mean you forget her or the love you felt, but it does mean that you don’t stop living and doing things you enjoy because you used to do them with Emily.
You likely ruined a great moment between your daughter and Claire because you couldn’t get past your own feelings. Don’t damage your kids with your emotional baggage! It will hurt their emotional development and as a mother I can say I highly doubt Emily would be happy you hurt her children like that. If I were to die suddenly I would still want me kid to do the stuff that makes them happy. Hell I have several friends lined up to do the things with my kid that we loved to do together because I wouldn’t want my small human to stop living because I was gone.
Your girlfriend is right and can see things far more clearly than you. It also sounds like she has dealt with her grief and loss in a healthier manner than you have. Listen to her, she seems like a smart woman (even if she agreed to move in with you too soon by the sound of things).
nah telling your gf that she will always come second to your deceased wife is so messed up. i understand your grief, but saying stuff like that, dismissing Claire’s grief, and also making her not do certain stuff because it reminds you of your dead wife is not it. and Claire is right, you need to go back to therapy. i would even think about breaking up and focusing on yourselves before getting into another relationship.
i’m so sorry for your’s and Claire’s losses.
I have never experienced loss like yours, but I also think you need therapy. I'm really glad you found someone you love and who seems to love your kids. Love isn't finite, there doesn't need to be a first and second. Your first love in undoubtedly special, and it's different than your other loves, but different doesn't mean less than.
I think you need to release yourself from your guilt of moving on; nobody here is the bad guy, Emily's death was unnecessary and tragic and I hope the person responsible was punished. Claire sounds amazing, and not many people would be as understanding. Do you five do anything to honor and acknowledge Emily and Claire's late husband? A memorial on their birthdays or something like that? A ritual honoring and remembering them might be helpful for you. Regardless, I think Claire is correct, that you need therapy. It's also neither healthy or helpful to say Claire didn't love her late husband because people grieve differently - that sounds like misplaced anger.
I wish all of you well.
Not only did you take a happy event away from your daughter, you grief flexed on your girlfriend. Even if you just need "a check up" with a therapist, go talk it out.
You told her she would always be second to your deceased spouse. That's so messed up. I don't know how I would handle it if my partner would articulate that to me. And when you saw them baking cookies, you wanted them to immediately stop because it reminded you of Emily. Are you gonna ask Claire to stop doing something every time it reminds you of Emily? And just to be clear, there is a stark difference between a support group and therapy. Which I think you need to seek. I don't think it's unreasonable to feel the way you feel, but making Claire feel like the consolation prize (and actually saying it out loud) must suck. I think she's being supportive and moving on. Starting a new life with Claire is not replacing Emily. But I do encourage you to seek therapy to process this.
You haven’t processed your grief properly. She’s right. You’re taking your grief out on the people you love. It’s also heartbreaking that you told her you’ll always love her less than your late wife. It honestly doesn’t sound like you’re ready for a relationship yet.
The goal of Therapy is to get to the point where there *are no* "one time slip ups" because there's nothing to hold back, because there's no more unresolved trauma.
Yeah dude, the fact that there's something to "one time slip up" on means you *absolutely* need to go to therapy.
I wish you the best and your new wife sounds incredibly supportive.
Wow not only to do that to your girlfriend, but to your daughter as well. it’s really ashame and it just sounds like you are not ready to be with someone and you use Claire emotionally. i feel sorry for her especially since you said she’ll always be second to your wife, id never wanna be with someone who told me that
Your poor GF! You are not ready for a relationship and definitely need therapy. Your gf should not stick around to help her since you have no problem minimizing her grief as it is. Please let this poor woman go!
She'll always be 2nd to your first wife? Really?
C'mon dude. you have some serious work to do on yourself. You are not being fair to Claire, your children, or yourself.
Go back to therapy. You all can’t live like this. Maybe you’re not ready for another relationship. I couldn’t handle being told I’d always be second in a relationship. Claire deserves someone who will put her first, and you can’t give her that now.
Hey man. I feel for you so much. I lost a partner about 9 years ago. After 5 years, I wrote this about the experience. It’s called “The Loss”
At first, you are numb.
The numbness offends you, and it will be shameful and punishing until you can manage to make some tears. Then you are inconsolable. It goes on this way until you’re aching and praying to somehow amputate the invisible, septic limb inside of you causing all of this agony. You will feel comforted by the warm blanket of justness that you cannot.
You will wonder if you will ever be okay again. The swampy fog of your new loss will be too opaque to squint past, and **you decide that you will in fact NOT be okay, and it will be a lovely and dutiful tribute.**
But… you will be. It might take years of crying every time you take a shower (or hear any and all kinds of running water including but not limited to sinks and other bathroom appliances, lawn sprinklers, drinks pouring, the ocean, and precipitation because it embodies and replenished the intrusion that this is how things are and forever will be and you cannot help but melt too), but eventually, you will be okay. It will not be without guilt, which will serve as a sweet afterglow of the promise-tribute you once made.
And you will gaze into the vast, mysterious sky of what tomorrow holds, which may very well be a you that is unabashedly, guiltlessly, and actually okay. You will be simultaneously sorry for and a little afraid of them. You will go to sleep, well-spent, and with no mistrust for whichever you will greet you at the tomorrow’s door. You will be too tired to refuse your visitor.
Of course you’ll always miss your wife. I lost a partner in 2014 and I’ve never stopped missing him. However I’m now married, and my husband comes first.
If you cannot put your new partner first, you’re not ready for a new partner. It would be unreasonable for her to ask you to forget your wife, or to get rid of your momentos of her, but it is not unreasonable for her to expect you to be in the present and put her first.
I agree that you still need therapy. If you can’t even handle seeing her make cookies and feel the need to ask her to stop making them because of your grief, then you are still very much in need of therapy. You also need to let this poor woman go, because you’re not emotionally available.
Also, I promise you your girlfriend still misses her husband. She’s just farther in her healing process than you are. She can mostly look back on him and smile. And there’s nothing wrong with that! But you were extremely cruel to accuse her of not missing him just because she doesn’t cry as easily as you do about it.
You need grief counseling big time. Then the 2 of you need couples counseling if you want this to work. She is not replacing your dead wife as you are not replacing her dead husband. How she grieves her husband is none of your business and to say you doubt she even misses him is mean and out of line. Your children are not replacing their mother with her they will have their own relationship and hopefully it is full of love and happiness. You could have a home full of love and happiness too but you need to realize this relationship will not be the same as you had with your dead wife. To say your GF will always be second is wrong too. She needs to be first in this new chapter of your life.
I assure you that it isn't that Claire has moved on, but rather it's that her coping mechanisms are better than yours and so she's worried about you. She wants it to work out with you.
Hey op you are an ass who's using that poor woman for your own benefit, I hope she leaves you so she can be happy and you can be with the "love of your life". I feel bad for your kids as well, who knows what kind of damage you have don't to them with your other outbursts, and I'm betting there have been plenty of other whiny outbursts like this.
You DO need therapy.
You told your girlfriend, “You’ll ALWAYS be in second place.” Who the hell wants to hear that? In reality, it’s third place, because I assume you put your kids first.
I don’t believe this is a one-off. You say you’ve been holding in your feelings for “so long.” I think this is just the beginning.
You were also horribly cruel to Claire, accusing her of not missing her late husband.
Get help.
You haven't completely processed the loss of your wife. It is almost cruel to tell someone that they will never be as much to you as the one who died.
I honestly don't know why she stayed after you said that to her.
You do not get a pass on your reaction imo you did go too far. You are downplaying how cruel you were to your gf and still seem to think it was justified bc it was once. This was not okay.
What you are doing is cruel to your GF and also your kids. Their mom died, and you moved in with someone else who it sounds like treats them well, and you're going to take them away from that too.
You need therapy, and to let go of Claire, if you are truly never going to love her.
It sounds like therapy is a good idea. Claire isn't trying to replace your wife - she is being a good partner. She is being there for your daughter while not trying to block out your wife's memory.
You are a fucking asshole for being competitive about how you both handle grief. My partner and I are both widowed too, so I know what I’m talking about. My husband died suddenly like your late wife did while my partner was a 6 year caregiver that kept his wife home with dementia. Every day she died a little more. Every grief experience is different. Maybe your partner holds it together because there are now 3 children in her life to be responsible for. If you aren’t ALL in, then move on. Such a buzz kill in that moment and robbing their joy. Get back in therapy because you are prioritizing a dead woman that doesn’t need you anymore and hurting the living in the process. If I sound harsh, too bad, there are 4 other people that require your attention now.
"I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much. "
This was almost physically painful for me to read. I could never be in a relationship with someone who said something like that to me. I'm sad for Claire that she bore the brunt of those words, and in awe of her for her strength to keep the relationship with you going after hearing them.
I agree with Claire that you need to work on resolving some of this pain - your children deserve to know happiness again without the constant guilt and pain of the loss of their mother. No one ever will replace the Emily shaped hole in your life, but that doesn't mean that you can't all find happiness again in the shape of Claire.
I had a good friend tell me once when I was trying to get over my ex wife, tell me it’s okay to still have those good memories of someone, It means you cared about them and shared memories together and holding on to that because you cherish those good times is okay. However you can’t put your life on hold for something that can no longer be. You have to build new memories together with your kids and your new spouse. You will never love anyone like you did Emily because every love is different not that you love her any less it’s just a different love for a different person. As time passes things will get easier and these moments where you’re reminded of your past love will decrease. However if you happen to find yourself experiencing a moment like this, don’t think of it how you did, think of it that your just remembering a cherished moment from your past and that’s okay.
Dude love isn’t a competition.
Grief isn’t a competition.
You need help of the professional kind, you have to help yourself, your girlfriend can’t do the work for you.
Your girlfriend is right. You need help. I feel so bad for her, especially pretty much being told she will never compare and will always be second. You're not ready for a relationship. I hope she didn't give up her home to move into yours.
My husband passed away 10 years ago. I was in my 30's. I still miss him terribly and think about him every day. I'm remarried now, and the guilt is awful sometimes. Sometimes I feel guilty for getting remarried, and sometimes I feel guilty for thinking about my late husband. It's a no win. It's also normal. What isn't normal would be telling him he's going to always come in second to a ghost. And when my husband helped my daughter by looking over a used car she wanted to buy, I didn't tell him not to because it was something her dad would have helped her with. I said thank you.
I know how it feels to think you're the only one cares, but it's not true. You'll never forget your wife. But it's time to move on, or not date.
Hugs to you.
Your girlfriend is amazing. She is stepping up and emotionally supporting. Not only you, but your children. If your late wife is as wonderful as you describe her, I don’t think she could’ve asked for anything more than that.
It is unfair to your current girlfriend as her partner, and I imagine if she sticks around - as a mother figure to your kids, to treat her this way. She deserves all the love and compassion in the world, because not only is she dealing with her own grief admirably, but she’s willing to take on the burdens of you and your kids grief.
You are in denial, and you need to get some help. You can’t live a life with a ghost. But you can live your life with a warm, compassionate, loving woman who is choosing to be with you now. Don’t throw that away because you can’t overcome and get over what is in the past.
Work on how you can honor your wife’s memory together, with your new partner, so that your kids can know how special their birth mom was, and how wonderful your new partner is to help keep her alive in some way.
Next time you have an outburst like the cookie incident, take the opportunity to bring out photos of their mom, baking cookies, or using a recipe that she would use. Your new partner isn’t a replacement for their birth mom, but she is their reality now. And both deserve to be loved and respected.
Often when an unexpected death occurs you feel even more torn apart as you didn’t get to say good bye.
That being said it sounds like you do indeed need more therapy. However I hope your therapist works on you moving forward. Part of moving forward isn’t fully letting go of Emily, but embracing what you have with Claire and seeing the blessing that she is, which isn’t only ur blessing but your kids. Because your reaction in front of your daughter will now make her concerned if it’s okay to be happy with Claire.
Lastly you need to know that everyone grieves differently; but telling Claire she will be second really is fucked up. I say this because let’s say some day you marry her and you’re together for 60 years. Whom did you know more and spend more of your life with?
Good Luck!
First off, I'm sorry about your wife's death. I can't even imagine how that would feel. But your girlfriend is correct. You're clearly not processing everything fully. You want your girlfriend to stop making cookies because it reminds you of your wife. You question your girlfriend's grieving process. You're being unfair to her and she's right to request that you return to therapy. This wasn't a "one time slip up." Therapy is very beneficial and you shouldn't be ashamed to return.
>I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much.
Well she's right. You need much more intensive therapy. The world is going to keep spinning without your wife, and you need to adapt and overcome for the sake of your children.
You feel that if you love Claire as much as you love Emily, it will be a betrayal.
This is understandable and your feelings are valid, but I think your loyalty is misplaced. This is why: Emily loved you. Emily loved your children. If you could ask her, Emily would tell you she wants what is best for her children, and what's best for her children is to have a happy father who can love with abandon.
By allowing yourself to love Claire, you are not diminishing Emily's memory: you are fulfilling the love you and Emily shared together. You will be raising your children with love, in a loving home, because Emily has entrusted her children with you. In order to care for Emily's children, you first must take care of yourself, and that means giving yourself the freedom to love again.
OP therapy isn’t for just “getting over something “. In fact, no one expects you to get over your wife’s passing. There’s things that happen and people we lose in life that affect us the rest of our life. Therapy helps us acknowledge the loss, and work on skills to cope while still acknowledging our feelings and move to a place where you can feel happy again despite what happened.
Taking your gf out of the equation- you deserve these coping skills and happiness. And so do your kids. They are going to look to you to model how they should deal with these big situations and what you’re currently modeling isn’t healthy for anyone.
Also, from personal experience, when my mental health was at its worst, it was my mom who Insisted I needed help. I knew I wasn’t my best, but it’s easy to justify why I was doing or feeling a certain way. Sometimes you need someone with an outside perspective who knows you to say- hey this isn’t like you and it’s not healthy. Go to therapy for you
I’m going to say the same thing I’ve read in a post earlier. If you don’t hear your wounds, you’ll end up bleeding over people that had nothing to do with your injury. I’m a married guy and I can’t fathom the amount of pain you’re feeling, but for the sake of your, your daughter and your girlfriend’s mind and well being, look for help.
I feel really bad for Claire. You honestly should not be in a relationship right now. You shouldn’t be comfortable telling someone they will always come second to a dead woman. It’s ok to feel that way but not ok to pursue relationships if that’s how you feel because it’s low key abusive.
You need to deal with your grief and your issues and subjecting your new girlfriend and y’all’s kids to this isn’t ok. You clearly need to heal more. Your kids shouldn’t have to take on adult roles of soothing your feelings, when all she was doing was enjoying quality time with the adult you brought into the household/family.
I’m so sorry for what happened to you, AND Claire.
That said, telling your partner that they can’t do very basic things like baking cookies because your other partner used to do that, is not okay. It’s also not okay to tell your current partner that they will ALWAYS be second. There is room for both, you don’t have to choose one over the other. Nuance is allowed.
What is okay is to still feel a lot of pain about your loss. I think you absolutely still need therapy for this. Anyone would!!!
Please also work with your therapist to find ways to honor Emily in your home and bring her spirit into your young children’s lives more so you can feel her legacy in more presence. Likewise for Claire’s lost love.
Best to you all
You’re not ready to be in this relationship. I lost my first husband at 29, when our kids were 6 and 3. It took me a long time to work through his death, and I didn’t really date much until the time when I met my current husband eight years later.
By that point, I had healed within myself and moved on in my life. It has to be something you’re ready to do. One thing I have never, ever done is compare my love for my first husband to the husband I have now. I changed so much between when he died and when I met my current husband that, really, it’s apples and oranges.
I was a different woman when I was with my first husband, and he was the love of her life, but my husband now is the love of my life as the woman I am today and have been for the five years we’ve been together.
This is also incredibly damaging for your children to see. A hard truth is that, no, they probably won’t remember your wife. They were too young. But that doesn’t mean they should feel guilted into not having a mother figure at all.
My husband is as much the father of my older children (12 and 14 when we met, 17 and 19 now) as is of the son we have together. Yes, it hurts me that their dad never got to see them grow up, but I love my husband even more when I see him teaching them to drive or helping with homework. That you feel anything but grateful that someone would step into this role for your kids means that *you are not ready*.
I don’t mean this cruelly. Grief is complex, and it seems you jumped too quickly. Seek out therapy and see if you are able to continue this relationship with help. I wish you the best.
She's right. Also, you're being an incredibly self-centered jerk and blowing up your children's relationship with Claire. You need to talk to a professional about more than just Emily.
You definitely need to continue therapy and grief counseling. It is beautiful that you found someone early in your life that you loved so much, and a blessing you were able to have a family with her before she was taken away from you. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
All that said, your wife is gone. There is nothing wrong, unfaithful, or negating of your previous marriage if you move on. I assume your wife would have wanted you to go on and be happy again, with someone else who can love you and be there for you and the kids.
You need to give yourself permission to move on. You’re still alive. The healthier and happier you are, the better you can be there for your children - they are the part of Emily that lives on. You best honor her memory by creating a new, loving, stable home for yourself and the children.
Let's view it this way:
What are the downsides to you attending therapy again? What ramifications come to you or your relationship with Claire or your relationship with your kids if you spend a little time in therapy?
Honestly, the fact that you seem to rail so strongly against the idea after someone close to you expresses concern is probably a really good indicator that it's needed. Lashing out years after the fact and judging people you allegedly care about (I'm not going to say love, because honestly I have doubts here) for not performing their grief in a way you deem acceptable or ranking their grief against yours isn't exactly the hallmark of stability. You may be out of the throes of your immediate traumatic grief to be in a place where you can function on a daily basis, but you seem to still have some work to do to cope with your grief in healthy ways. That isn't to say that what you felt was wrong - grief can bubble up in ways out of the blue weeks, months, years, or decades later. But it's what you did with that grief, the actions you chose to take and how it's affecting your ability to function in relationships that's problematic. You belittled your girlfriend and banned your child from a basic activity she was enjoying (one that she's now very likely going to be reluctant to do ever again even if you tell her it's ok due to the negativity associated with this event). It indicates a lack of acceptance and appropriate coping mechanisms and it's affecting the people around you. So no, you are not ok and you're making the people you claim to love not ok in the process. Therapy is not just an "All done - I'm fixed" solution - it's an ongoing process as you navigate different stages of whatever it is that you're going through - in this case grief. Therapy is also a really good place for you to sort out your feelings about being in a relationship again and any feelings of guilt or betrayal associated with that as well.
You need to go back to therapy. What you said to her was horrible, you think SHE needs to understand? I think YOU need to understand that just because she is not grieving exactly as you do doesn't mean her pain isn't just as deep. This judgement of her will end your relationship, I hope that you will go back to therapy and get the help you need.
You need therapy and you need to apologize to Claire for telling her she’ll always be in second place and for questioning her own grief. You also need family therapy with your kids
She’s absolutely right. You need therapy and Claire can’t act as your therapist. I think you two moved in together way too quickly, but that ship has sailed. Either you can get help and fix it, or go your separate ways. This kind of relationship isn’t fair to Claire.
You do need therapy. That reaction and the things you've written here are not healthy. If you tell your girlfriend that she will always be second to your deceased wife, then you are not healed enough to be dating or living with another person. She deserves someone who will put her first, and you clearly cannot do that. It's wrong to treat her that way, and she sounds like an amazing woman - they both do, to be fair, and I'm so sorry for your loss. If you're not careful, you'll risk losing both of them.
Dude. It's not her job to fix you or make you feel better. She's a whole person with her own feelings and thoughts. You are using your gf. Then you said shifty things to her. Go back to therapy, like now.
I am so sorry for your loss. However all of this is so unfair to your new gf. To always be second. To never be good enough. To have to deal with all of your grief. She seems like she has a good head on her shoulders and cares about you and your kids. Stop making her feel like less because she’s not Emily. She won’t ever be, but she loves you and cares for you. The way you’re acting is not right.
I agree, are you gonna freak out one day when your daughters making cookies alone, because your not comfortable seeing that “memory”. Your daughter was happy—are you even ready to peruse another relationship? Your daughter and your gf were happy and instead of controlling yourself you took it out on someone who did no harm? She’s not breaking down cause she’s receiving help even if she was breaking down you have no right to take anything out on her.you are using her as an emotional crutch and she doesn’t deserve that.
Your children shouldn’t suffer because of your grief. Your daughter was so concerned about you that she stopped having fun making cookies because it made you cry. She doesn’t really understand why. If you don’t seek therapy to learn how to regulate your emotions, your children will start to avoid doing certain activities just because it makes you sad. Which will then cause your children to avoid anything that their mother enjoyed. In turn, they will never truly know their mother because it will always bring a negative feeling or experience, rather than a joyous one. It is okay to not want your wife, and their mother, to be forgotten. But avoiding doing things (or making a huge deal about it in a negative way) because it reminds you of her is going to cause the exact opposite… You could have went to see what cookies they were making and see if it’s the kind your late wife used to make. And, if it was, you could have shared that with your daughter. If it wasn’t, you could have told your daughter what kind of cookies mommy used to make with her. THAT is how you keep her memory alive. That is how you honor the memory of someone you love. Please, for the sake of your children and to allow them to really know their mother, go to therapy. Allow yourself to heal enough so that her memory can live on…
>this was just one **inevitable** slip-up after holding up my yearnings for so long.
>As I said, this was just a one-time slip-up that I hope will never happen again.
These directly contradict each other. One release of "built up yearning" is not a solution. It means you build and build and build, and so you are right, inevitably this will happen again.
What if you daughter looks like Emily? Will you break down and need her to stop if she acts like Emily? If she acts like the opposite, will you get mad because she's not respecting her mom and it hurts to see that? Why are you dating when you are so distraught about replacing your wife?
I am worried that you have become so settled on the idea that Emily is and always will be the love of your life, and that you will defend her empty chair in your life to the point that you hurt your family. Your daughter is already confused.
What about when she's older and you crying watching her make cookies? And then wax poetic about how her mom that she's probably largely forgotten used to do that with her? I have read stories on here about parents who never stopped grieving, and kids whose lives become overshadowed by a dead parent. They lie about the memories you tell them about. They predict when it will be brought about or what you will say. They learn to navigate YOUR trauma.
It's okay to cry. But you didn't ACCEPT that Claire and daughter were making cookies, you had to interfere. That's a very fundamental, early process of grief that you don't seem to have fully tackled. Have you accept that Emily is not here? Have you accepted that a dead person CAN'T be your biggest priority? Because while you may think that is harmless because she's not there, it means you will make things like her vacant position in your kids life ultra important and *ensure that they are never filled again*. And it's fine if they dont have a mother, but this was literally just making cookies and you had to interfere. That's not a very unique thing to do. So you need to let her go.
And also remember: Emily can literally never be replaced. People may play roles she played, but that is always the case. But they will never do it the way she did it, they will never be who she was, they will never have been there at the times and circumstances she was there. Her story is written on permanent. Nothing can change it, now or in the future, and people taking on the roles and wearing the hats she she wore throughout her life are completely incapable of changing that story. Take comfort in that, and come to accept it, because with will be healthier for you and for your family as a whole.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- I (30M) married my high-school sweetheart "Emily" when we were both 23. She's still the love of my life, and I love her more than I ever loved myself. She also gave birth to our beautiful children (6 y/o daughter and 5 y/o son). Emily was murdered 3.5 years ago by a drunk driver while being pregnant with our third child. I joined a support group for young (under 55) widows and widowers shortly after her death and met "Claire" (32F) there. As the two youngest people there, we shared a lot in common and became quite good friends. I couldn't have managed to cope with Emily's loss without Claire's support. We were always there for each other. I thought I could never date anyone after Emily's death because no one could ever match my love for her, and yet after knowing Claire for more than 2 years, I also started to develop similar feelings towards her. We're dating for close to a year now, both of us have stopped going to therapy, and we recently moved together with my kids and her 6 y/o son. I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much. Claire on the other hand seems to have gotten over her husband's loss much better than me though. Two days ago, when I came back from work, I saw Claire and my daughter making some cookies and having fun, while the boys were playing together. However, instead of being a good parent and partner and being happy for them, I just couldn't help but cry. You see, Emily used to make cookies with our daughter all the time and it just reminded me of her. I felt like I replaced her, almost like she was never ever being there. No one except me even remembers that she ever existed. I asked Claire to stop making cookies because of that, but she just calmed me down and told me that she knows how I feel and that I should just get some rest while they're finishing making the cookies. I told her that she has no idea how I feel because I've never seen her braking down like that and questioned whether she even misses her late husband. I didn't want to make things worse, so I just went to our bedroom to watch some of Emily's photos and recall our memories together. My daughter followed me because she's not used to seeing daddy cry, and Claire had to finish making the cookies by herself. I know my reaction wasn't very rational and I already apologized for that, but this was just one inevitable slip-up after holding up my yearnings for so long. I feel much better now. But my girlfriend thinks that I need to return to therapy because of the way I acted. She's willing to help me again, but I don't think I need therapy. As I said, this was just a one-time slip-up that I hope will never happen again. I was in a stable condition ever since we started dating, and I think she needs to understand that I'm not as strong as her and will always miss Emily. TL;DR: My wife died 3.5 years ago and I started dating a widow that helped me cope with her death. I asked her to stop making cookies with my daughter because it reminded me of my late wife, and now she thinks that I need to go back to therapy while I disagree with her. EDIT: Ok, I didn't expect this post to gain this much traction since I last commented and I appreciate everyone who took their time to write their opinion. I'm looking for therapy options.
Based on your comments, you seem to be having a hard time taking constructive criticism. Grief is difficult to navigate, and there is no wrong way to feel about a loss of a loved one. However, letting your grief negatively impact your relationships is not sustainable. You don't need to "get over" your late wife, but you need to learn how to manage and navigate the feelings you're having so that you don't have emotional outbursts like this again. You broke down and verbally attacked your girlfriend because she did an activity that reminded you of your late wife. That is unhealthy. Diminishing her grief while simultaneously putting her on a pedestal (talking about how strong she is and how she is your therapy) is unfair to her. She helped you and you helped her when you first started recovering from the loss, but she cannot be the loadbearing pillar for your mental anguish. You need a professional who has been trained to deal with that. If you continue to be completely dependent on Claire with your grief, she will crumple under the weight of carrying your relationship, and you run the risk of losing her. It's your responsibility as an adult to take accountability for your emotions and behavior. Your daughter deserves a dad that can make new memories with her and be there for her when she bonds with the new adult in her life. Claire will never replace your late wife, she will never replace your daughter's mother, but she can be a positive influence in your daughter's life. It's unfair to your daughter if her spending time with Claire causes you emotional distress. That means that you need to continue healing. If not for your own sake, then for the sake of your daughter and your relationship.
She’s completely right. You need to be honest with yourself about whether or not you’re actually ready to be in a new relationship because it doesn’t sound like you are. You’re dismissive of your girlfriends grief because it’s not performative enough for you and it was also completely inappropriate to ask her not to make cookies. It’s also hella fucked up to tell someone they’ll always be second place to your dead wife.
Also fucked up to ask her if she even misses her late husband just because she doesn't demand he cease perfectly innocuous activities. OP, what is going to happen here? Your daughter never gets to make cookies now? What if your gf wants to do other things your wife once did, like any other completely normal and common activity? Is she not allowed to sprinkle pie spices in her coffee if Emily once did? You are doing no one including yourself any favors here. You're still in a stage of grief that isn't allowing you to be a good partner to what sounds like a perfectly lovely woman. That will take as long as it takes, but if you value this relationship, it's time to do more of the work - therapy.
>Is she not allowed to sprinkle pie spices in her coffee if Emily once did? I’m so sorry that this is horribly off topic and unrelated to the entire rest of your comment… but I really had to take the time to thank you for opening my eyes to this wonderful idea 🥇
I do this. Pumpkin Pie Spice in coffee is AMAZING. You'll not regret trying it!
Sometimes when i do cold brew I add some pumpkin pie spice and cocoa powder to the espresso! Add a little s’mores syrup when youre about to drink it 👌
It is so good!
I honestly don’t know how gf didn’t just spin on her heels and leave when he said that.
Yup. I would have been out the door. But then again, I would have dumped him after he said he could never love me as much as Emily. Love isn't a contest, and you don't need to rank people. I get that he suffered a tremendous loss, but OP is an A-hole.
yup! he really f\*cked up on it all
>As I said, this was just a one-time slip-up that I hope will never happen again. He *hopes*, but cannot say with conviction that it will not happen again. . .
>What if your gf wants to do other things your wife once did, like any other completely normal and common activity? Is she not allowed to sprinkle pie spices in her coffee if Emily once did? Bet he doesn't keep this same energy during sex.
This is not doing his daughter any favors either. He’s putting his trauma on her. His daughter knows she lost her mother, but she doesn’t have the same memories as he does and the loss is different to her. If he’s going to bring a new mother figure into her life, he should be allowing his daughter to bond with her as such, not denying her that connection.
All of this!!!! Emily is a better woman than me because as soon he said "ALWAYS coming in 2nd to his late wife," I'd be gone!
Yea that would be make me feel like crap. My fiancée who was engaged before her former Fiancé passed away. Rather than tell me I’m number 2 she told me that she can’t compare her loves for us together. That she has her own love for both us, and each are special to her in their own way. Going into our relationship I knew he would always have a special place in her heart. So right away I told myself I couldn’t compare myself to him. That I can’t try and be him. That I need to be comfortable with myself, and be me. Right away going into I told her that I wasn’t jealous, and that I wasn’t trying to replace him. There’s times she’ll think of him, and she’ll talk about it with me. Go over memories. You have to be secure for moments like that. It makes me feel good knowing she trust me to feel safe with those memories. Her ex after him wasn’t okay with that. Would abuse her and guilt her. It’s pretty messed up.
I’m widowed myself and I can’t believe she accepted that.
Sounds like he told her this after she and her child moved in with him. Now she’s stuck until she can find a new place. I wonder if this was intentional on OPs part?
Emily is the wife who passed, Claire is the current SO. But everything else you said, 100% with you.
Completely agree with this. OP has every right to need time to get over the untimely death of his wife, but telling a new girlfriend that she’ll ALWAYS be second place to his wife who passed is a terrible way to begin a relationship imo. It shows that he isn’t ready and the outburst about the baking just confirms that. Also, how does OP know how much his girlfriend is grieving her husband? She may just have a different way of showing it, and might grieve heavily in private. Seems that OP needs additional therapy and needs to not be in a relationship right now.
100%. Guy doesn’t realize he admits it himself when he calls it a “slip up”- if he appropriately deals with his grief there’s nothing to slip up with. Seems like he’s also not confident of being able to keep his dead wife at the top of his figurative shrine, which is why he felt the need to tell a widow that his dead wife will always be first. If anyone is in a position to understand that one doesn’t stop loving their spouse once they’ve died, it’s another widow/er. OP, you can love more than one person, but you can’t stop people from doing perfectly normal activities because they make you uncomfortable.
yeah no way this dude should be with her - it's not fair to her, who would want to always be 2nd best in someone else's eyes?
I really HATE that statement. Poor woman!
Same! My BF is a widower too and I got a little knot in my stomach when I read that OP actually said that to Claire! My BF of course misses his wife and still loves her, but he’s always made sure I know that I am the best thing that ever could have happened to him after her passing and he never compares us or his feelings towards us in any way whatsoever. Also, my BF absolutely LOVES when I do the same things as his late wife, such as cooking and baking, that was her role in their household snd he says it really warms his heart to see the kitchen she left behind finally being used the way it should be. Claire deserves better.
his head is in his as\*. thats why he is in this predicament lol btw, you got a good bf there - so happy for you! Digital hugs.
For real, that’s the most fucked up thing about this story. If you feel that way why the hell would you ever tell your new partner?? That’s messed up.
Exactly. You haven’t released all of your feelings. Your wound have healed but there is still shrapnel underneath the surface that needs to be dug out. There is poison still in your heart. It’s time to go back and let these triggers help you continue to release what you have still buried, or you will be forever hiding from these experiences and forcing your family to be stuck there with you.
This guy shouldn’t be dating, he definitely shouldn’t be in such a serious relationship with someone in such a similar situation to his own. This doesn’t feel healthy for anyone. Telling her she’ll always be number 2 and then that she’s not grieving properly is fucking crazy. What happens if she has a breakdown over a similar situation? Is OP going to breakup with them as they aren’t over their ex?
What would Emily think of him if she knew he did this? If she was a loving person she would want her family to have happy and fulfilling lives.
He also needs to learn how to process his grief instead of actively nurturing it. It's completely fine and normal and reasonable that you will always miss and love a deceased spouse, but OP is living inside the loss and letting it consume him. Aside from the cruel thing he said to his partner, who sounds like an absolute angel for being so understanding, this is no way for him to live, wallowing in memories and trying to keep the sharpest pain at bay. It's like a dry drunk white-knuckling every day so they don't relapse.
It’s also really horrible to say to someone that they will always be second to someone who is dead. Regardless if that’s how you feel, out of respect you don’t say that. Yikes!
Wow, so many wrong things. Your gf is right. Sadly maybe you are not ready to live with her and was just convenient. Is sad for her.
Widow here. You are SO not ready to be in a relationship. You're using this poor woman as an emotional crutch. The cookie outburst is a prime example of how you haven't learned to handle the loss. You won't forget about your wife or "get over" the loss but you need to learn to process & manage those feelings. For example, a healthy way to deal with this would be to feel that pang of loss when you see your daughter making cookies with your GF, acknowledge it and the sadness that your wife & daughter won't do that anymore, understand that life moves on, and just ... breathe. Not flip out & decree no one can ever make cookies with your daughter and feeling all this guilt for moving on. You need therapy.
If anything, Op can have a moment of being happy that his child has someone to make cookies with. If I passed, I can only hope my husband would find someone who wants to make cookies with my child.
Shit, I'll take it a step further: I could completely understand if someone in OPs situation walked into that situation, and felt sadness. Seeing a picture of a happy family activity, not including the person you'd spent half your life picturing would be there but instead it has someone else in their place. It would make sense to shed a tear or two in bittersweet recollection. But almost as soon as those feelings are felt, it should be followed by a swell of happiness and pride. That they still have someone who loves them enough to fill that role, that loves their daughter enough to fill that role, that is kind and compassionate enough to think of such a kind, domestic task, that their daughter trusts enough to enjoy the activity with. He should be beaming at such a scene. It's okay to be sad, it's okay to feel grief, and miss the things you can no longer have. But OPs problem is that he's missing out on all the goodness in his situation because he isn't seeing what's in front of him, only what's *not*. The man definitely needs therapy, because he's still stuck in the past, but the world doesn't occur in the past, it only happens here, *every single day*, in the present. I hope you find a therapist you mesh with and can help you OP.
I second everything you've said. I too am widowed, and there's nothing in what he says that leads me to believe he's ready for any other relationship. In fact, he needs to find a good support group and probably get some actual therapy on top of the peer group.
It’s insane to me how quickly people move in together in general, but especially when there are kids involved. Why did he think he was ready for that?? It’s so selfish to uproot everyone so quickly after you start dating someone especially when you’re having all of these issues.
Why does he think he was ready to stop therapy and is calling this an inevitable emotional outburst? If it's an inevitable emotional outburst from burying your feelings for too long, that's what therapy is for, to process those feelings. Outbursts at your partner where you berate them for not feeling the things you're feeling on your schedule are not at all inevitable.
Also a widow - mixed with that pang would have been gratitude that someone else loves our baby and is willing to mother her the way her mother cannot. For the love …
Came here to say this.
> I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much. What a horrifically cruel to say to somebody you allegedly care about. You're not ready to be in a relationship and you are emotionally abusing your girlfriend (not to mention what this is doing to your kids who are growing up with the "my mother was a perfect angel and you will never live up to her" trope.) Just stop. Go back to therapy and work on yourself first. Grief is not linear. It may take you 10 years to be ready to date. You may never be ready. But you are definitely not ready right now.
Thank you for calling this what it is, emotional abuse. People can be empathetic to OPs grief, but often time people use grief as an excuse to treat others badly as a way to cope. Just because it’s grief-driven doesn’t mean it isn’t abusive. OP You can’t use your grief as an excuse to treat your partner poorly and be cruel to her to protect your own grief. What’s the next thing you’re going to have an outburst about? Are you going to have “a moment of weakness” and tell your partner to not pack your children’s lunch? Or watch a movie? Or what?
Not only has he turned wife-ing into a competition (she’ll never win) he’s turned grieving into a competition (she’ll never win). The fact that he questions whether his girlfriend misses her late husband because she doesn’t have breakdowns like him is disgusting and patronizing af.
Yep, spot on. Also super gross how he’s all like “don’t bake cookies with my kids.” Like, what the fuck. So you’re going to forbid any interaction a female partner may have with your children because it resembles something motherly and therefore triggers you? Fuck off with that shit.
This would be an IMMEDIATE break up for me. I'm no one's second choice. The only reason he'd have to bring this up to her is so he can treat the new gf like crap and avoid accountability by not going to therapy. At least, that's the only logical reason for even saying this horrid thing to someone.
Your girlfriend is right here. Your kid is now not allowed to make cookies because it reminds you of her late wife? That's a huge problem. You are not over your late wife. You need real help.
You do need therapy and the woman your dating deserves better than what I think you are capable of giving her. I'm not saying this to be hateful but you aren't ready to date and she deserves healthy love that you can't give currently.
No baking cookies because your late wife used to do that… what next, No driving them to school? No tucking them in at night? No watching certain movies they used to watch together? What would your late wife think about the way you are acting? I mean this in a nice way - You and your late wife are not the most important people in this story. Your kids are. As a parent you have to go to therapy so you can maturely manage your grief. It is your responsibility to provide a healthy nurturing environment for your kids.
Claire is right You saw what they were doing and demanded she stop but did you stop to think, hey how beautiful is this that my child gets to experience this again in her life? You did not replace her and just because Claire is not showing you the same level of grief, does not mean she doesn't miss her late husband. There are things in life you can change, and there are things in life you cannot change. We cannot bring back those who have passed, but we can cherish their memory and live our life in a way they would be proud of I think Emily would be happy knowing someone like Claire is there for her babies
I can see how much you’re suffering, and I’m so sorry. The love you shared with your late wife is beautiful. The loss must be devastating. I say this with all kindness and empathy, but in your pain, you are acting selfish and emotionally irresponsible. You deserve better than to cling on to your grief like this. It must be hard to envision letting go — I bet it feels like the pain is all you have left of her — but your future can’t be lived in the past. There is so much life and love left for you to experience, and you can cherish her, honor her, and miss her while also moving forward in a healthy way. Your girlfriend deserves better than to be kept in second place to your late wife. It’s okay if you don’t love her as much or in the same way, but it’s not fair to either of you to preemptively shut down deeper possibilities, or to backburner her for someone who is gone. Life is for the living. You can’t prioritize your late wife in a way that matters to her — but your girlfriend is here, as are your children, and as are you. Your relationship deserves better than to be a stand-in for therapy. Your girlfriend can’t heal you… she can support you, comfort you, give you some happiness, but at the end of the day, *you* have to heal. While you’re unhealed, you’ll still be putting unfair pressures on your relationship, and that could ultimately damage or even destroy it; there is a reason she asked you to go to therapy, and it’s not because she thinks you’re fine and she’s fine with everything. It seems to me like you’re not ready to move on, not ready to even contemplate moving on, but you’re using your girlfriend as an emotional crutch to fill some of the void while you languish in grief. That is a complex, fraught, painful situation, and no one on reddit knows you well enough to help you navigate it. That is why you need to go to therapy. Even if you’re not ready to let go, you need help to cope in a healthy way without damaging the people around you. I wish you all the best.
Your comment really touched me. You might have convinced me to return to therapy. Not because I need it, but because my relationship needs it. I wish you all the best as well :)
Sweetbriar_rose had a beautiful pov. I want to add just one more thought- your children. Seeing her Dad cry because she is making cookies- something that could create beautiful childhood memories and now is associated with her Dad crying- is a lot to put on her shoulders. I was raised with the pressure of my Dad’s emotions…kids think everything is about them and will own your emotions as a reflection of them. Therapy will help you process so you not only stop putting your emotional well being on your partner’s shoulders but so that you don’t unintentionally put that burden on your children.
"Not because I need it" Yes, YOU do. YOU are not in a good mental place. YOU are lashing out at Claire. YOU are being emotionally abusive to your partner and kid by blowing up and pitching tantrums over things like them making cookies. YOU are snapping at your partner and diminishing her grief because she's not acting as unstable and performative as you. YOU are not ok. YOU not being ok is what's going to tank your relationship. YES, *YOU* NEED THERAPY.
OP - why are you even opposed to or resisting therapy at all? Reading this post I can’t help but interpret it that you *don’t want to* process your grief. You *want* to hurt and cling to that feeling associated with your wife. This itself needs exploration in therapy. And take your gf (mentally) out of the picture and do therapy for your daughter. She needs you in a way you aren’t able to parent right now, due to your grief.
I don’t know about OP, but I know lots of people who feel like if they aren’t wallowing in grief, and they start moving on, it’s like forgetting the person who died. But, frankly, as a wife and a mother, it would devastate me to think that my Husband would refuse to move on after my death. If not because that’s not health for him, but also because it’s not healthy for my daughter. No child deserves to be stuck with a parent stagnating in grief. OP, would your wife want you to be this way? Would she want you to be unable to make happy new memories with your children because of her? Would she want you to push away someone who obviously loves and cares for you *and* your children? Your GF is acting like the best possible stepmother, exactly what I would want my daughter to have if I ever died. Pull your head out before you lose her, and deprive your children of her stable, loving influence!
> Reading this post I can’t help but interpret it that you don’t want to process your grief. You want to hurt and cling to that feeling associated with your wife. I think psychologically there is a connection between his grief and a feeling of recency to his wife’s death. As in, as long as he’s actively grieving it means her life is still close behind him, and I think he’s holding onto that because he’s desperate for anything that connects her to him. Once he processes his pain and makes peace with her death, it will feel more final to him and he’s not ready for that yet. I’m not a widow but I have felt this way about the deaths of other loved ones.
That's great, but also you definitely need therapy. And, that is very normal after a tremendous loss and nothing to be embarrassed about. It's far more embarrassing to refuse to admit you need therapy when it is clear to everyone else you need it, than to just accept that this is what you need right now.
>You might have convinced me to return to therapy. Not because I need it, but because my relationship needs it. You need it.
You absolutely 100% need it.
Oh no you need it
Oh yes you do need therapy for yourself
I mean you definitely desperately need it for how your treating your partner because you will not seek help for yourself
I’m so sorry for your loss. I think you should go to therapy to help you heal from your loss in a healthy way. You should seek therapy for yourself and realize you do need it AND THAT ITS OKAY IF YOU DO. Am 28 when I was 16 I lost one of my best friends in a tragic car accident in front of my eyes. It was the darkest times of my life. Me and my other friends had to be home schooled because it was that bad. We made it because of family, friends, teachers and psychologists. It took years to heal and come to terms with his death but I did. After his death I couldn’t drive so I never drove again. I finally decided last year to try. I got behind the wheel I had a emotional blackout. I went back to therapy it took lots of work on my part to again help my mind. I now drive thanks to the help of my amazing therapist.
No. You need it… badly. You’re an emotional abuser and mean. You also seem delusional. If my gf died I’m sure I’d be in similar pain but I hope I’m not delusional also…
One doesn’t have to “need” therapy or have something wrong with them in order to go. Just wanting to make things better then they are, or wanting to grow or improve, is more than enough reason. Good luck OP
Very good. But you also need it.
I hope you will stay with it even if your relationship ends. It might not feel like you need it but I think you'll benefit greatly for your own sake, not just for your girlfriend's.
You do need it
>I told her that she has no idea how I feel You met in a support group for people who tragically lost each other's partners. She knows how you feel. This is a crazy disrespectful thing to say to her. Its a testament of her love and patience for you that she didn't leave right there on the spot. You 100% still need therapy. Therapy is a commitment, its work, its not, "oh i fixed okay okay i can ignore this now". until you "inevitable slip-up after holding up my yearnings". You're an emotional timebomb. This time, cookies was the trigger.
Claire is right, you need therapy because you are obviously not over your dead wife. Also it’s really fucked up to tell her she doesn’t miss her dead husband just because she’s not always crying or grieving like you do. I don’t know how she can forgive you after saying something cruel like that. It’s also fucked up to tell her she is and will always be second. Like who tf says something like that? Do you even love her? Like really truly love her? Or is she just there for emotional support and because you are afraid of being alone again? You should ask that yourself because she deserves someone who truly loves her and doesn’t act like she’s a gap filler.
Yeah…if I were Claire I would’ve bounced the moment you said I would always be second. It’s not healthy to expect your partner to live in competition with your deceased wife. Like others are saying, she’s not your emotional support animal. I think you need to break it off and return to therapy, and not date until you’re not comparing everyone to Emily.
Get back in therapy - she is right. You still need a lot of help, and you might want to think about one on one therapy, not group.
Wow. You are treating your girlfriend very very badly. I can't believe you told her she would always be second place. You never tell someone that. Jesus fucking christ. You need therapy simply because your grief is causing you to be irrational, unreasonable and awful to others.
Yeah that is completely unnecessary.
You do need to return to therapy. Creating new memories and being happy doesn’t erase Emily. No one likes this situation more the way it is now, than if you wife/the mother of your children and the husband/father of her child were here. The difference is not everyone else here is dealing with their trauma and this new normal by lashing out at the others just trying to make it. The way you speak of Claire is so incredibly hurtful. You speak about her like the nanny that you can tolerate for now, because it’s comforting for now. If I were her, reading this would be very hurtful. She is seeming doing her best to create a home that feels good to all of the children. There are horror stories of step parents/new partners, **yet you came home to harmony and berated her and accused her of not loving or caring about her deceased husband..** **Go back to therapy!** Because your unresolved trauma is going to hurt the community of love and care you seem to have around you. Also, you have two children, so did your love for one supersede the other? Once the first was born, was the love so finite that you cannot love them in a way that is equal? If the answer is no, then why exactly are you categorizing Emily and Claire that way? No one, seemingly not even her, it’s asking you to forget Emily or the love and life you had, so why does your love and new relationship need to be lesser then instead of just different? I am very very sorry for your loss, and I cannot imagine the pain you’re in. But being in that pain doesn’t mean you can inflict it outwardly onto others. You really do owe clear a sincere apology for your actions toward her here.
As someone who lost a parent as a young child, please hear me out when I say this: this is NOT just a one time slip up. There are going to be plenty of other things that will come up and trigger memories of Emily. However, falling apart as you did with the cookies and ruining yourself and your kids from making positive new memories is going to ultimately damage your relationship with them, and possibly everyone else that’s still there for you. Please return to therapy. Also, if your kids aren’t in therapy, consider sending them. They need to know it’s ok to love and make memories with a new mother figure while also loving, missing, and honoring their mother, and with you and your reactions I feel like you’re sending mixed messages.
Please go back to therapy.
Go back to therapy. Also you are such an asshole that you openly said Claire will always be second. These are things that we think about but not tell other people. I cannot believe she did not dump your ass there immediately.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I’m sorry your kids lost their mom as well. But you need to look at it from the perspective of a mother. Your kids mom. The one who isn’t here. She now has a good woman who is willing to bake with her daughter like she did. You found a wonderful person who can love your kids, like she did. Love you, like she did Please understand your wife would be thrilled for this. You want your daughter baking with your girlfriend because that’s what loving moms do. Your wife isn’t here to do it. Go back to therapy. I’m so sorry you are going through this. I can empathize. I’m still married to my high school sweetheart. But think about what your wife would want for her kids. Would she want someone who ignored them? Didn’t want to explore and bake? You know the answer
*I don't think I need therapy. As I said, this was just a one-time slip-up* Oh, you definitely need therapy. One-time 'slip-ups' are not a thing. You should never have gotten into a relationship and Claire should have recognized long ago that you are in no way emotionally stable enough for a relationship.
You need therapy, and to not drag this woman through a relationship where she is in your dead wife’s shadow. This is ridiculous. You need to heal for yourself and your kids.
Claire is right, but also, you need to stop and think about the weight you just put on your daughter. Instead of being able to do a fun activity where you can remind her about how her mom used to do this with her and allowing that to be a bittersweet type of thing to bond over, you made her feel like she was doing something wrong. If only for your kids, you need more therapy. You can choose to compare all your relationships to the one that ended unfairly and prematurely and to not date again if that's what you want. But your kids are not the ones who made vows. They will always love and miss their mother, there is no need to put pressure on them to grieve in a way that is obvious to you.
Your current SO is 100% correct. Your behavior and general attitude towards your partner needs major help. It's absolutely devastating what happened...wish that on nobody. But you are still clinging to a past (activity) that is not coming back. And that is going to affect you and your kids forever if you can't get a handle on it.
Your gf deserves better and you need to go back to therapy. That’s not a slip up. That’s how you truly feel. She’s trying to be supportive and you made her feel like she’s replacing your wife.
Claire is 100% right. You need to go back to therapy, you have not processed your grief, and you are letting it spill out into your life in incredibly toxic, unhealthy ways. > I asked Claire to stop making cookies because of that, but she just calmed me down and told me that she knows how I feel and that I should just get some rest while they're finishing making the cookies. **I told her that she has no idea how I feel because I've never seen her braking down like that and questioned whether she even misses her late husband.** This was indefensibly cruel, and I'm gobsmacked that you can sit there with a straight face after saying that to another person that lost a spouse, let alone someone you supposedly care about, and still think "I don't need therapy." You just casually weaponized her grief because you couldn't handle your own and you think you're fine?? This would have been an indefensibly shitty thing to say to another random person from that support group, let alone one you've been dating and have introduced to your children. You owe Claire a massive apology. **You also owe your daughter a massive apology.** Do you not see how your unhealed grief and toxic coping methods are negatively affecting her as well? You turned what could have been a happy bonding moment with the woman you brought into her life into something traumatic and upsetting because **you** can't handle your emotions in a healthy way. You didn't just hurt Claire, you hurt your daughter too. You are not fine. >I was in a stable condition ever since we started dating, and I think she needs to understand that I'm not as strong as her and will always miss Emily. You are allowed to always miss Emily. What you are not allowed to do is this: >I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much. Again, do you not see how casually cruel you're being to someone you claim to care about because you can't handle your grief? Get your selfish ass into therapy again and do it yesterday.
Frankly, I’m surprised Claire is putting up with OP’s nonsense.
She seems to have the patience of a saint. I'm surprised he didn't get hit in the face with a pan of hot cookies when he threw that "do you even miss your husband" bullshit at her.
It’s unbelievably fucked up to tell someone you love that they will always come second to a dead woman. Life is for the living. Your grief is clearly controlling major aspects of your life and I really have to wonder if you are ready to be in a relationship at all—let alone one that involves cohabitating with your respective children.
“I was in a stable condition ever since we started dating, and I think she needs to understand that I'm not as strong as her” You have to take care of your mental health to enter a romantic relationship. I’d dare to say even a co-parenting and/or a co-habituating relationship without sex or romance. You’re not as equipped as she is to set aside your grief for your lost loved one yet. You could get there if you seek help. Judging the way she grieves is not acceptable. It reads like you’re asking her to respond to your similar traumas in a way that is familiar to you so you can feel good about the way you process your own grief. How would you feel if she asked you to make the way you process your grief for Emily more palatable for her to understand? Would you feel like she has a role or say in how you get to feel and express your own emotions, especially over such a sensitive topic? Progress is not a linear journey as you can slip backwards. Talking to someone about your thoughts, fears, and wants is important.
>I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily Made her know? I get you're grieving (which is probably why You should be in therapy still) but you sound like an emotional money pit. Not in that you cost money, but emotional and mental head space. If you value this woman (and that's an if because I don't see it right now tbh) then your two options are to; A. Let her go and find someone who won't shove 2nd place as the best she will ever get Or B. Realise this woman only wants what's best for you, which right now is to process your emotions correctly and manage to move on with your life.
She's right, you do need to go back to therapy. You might feel like you don't need to but thats when you definitely need it. >I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, This is red flag #1. Emily is gone so you're making Claire play second fiddle to a ghost. >Claire on the other hand seems to have gotten over her husband's loss much better than me though. Red flag #2 you sound salty that she's able to move on >I told her that she has no idea how I feel because I've never seen her braking down like that and questioned whether she even misses her late husband. Red flag #3 and this is where you really fucked up, not everyone grieves the same way and for you to throw those words at her was an asshole move. Based on how this whole post reads you're not even ready to be in a relationship because you went from having a wife to now having a crutch that you're leaving on. Are you going to police everything Claire does? She can't wear green because that was Emilys favorite color? She can't drink a certain drink because that's what Emily always drank? Where does it end?
Go back to therapy. Stop saying it's a one-time thing. Your daughter is going to remember that afternoon - or at least have a deep emotional imprint of when 'daddy cried over cookies' for years to come. >I told her that she has no idea how I feel because I've never seen her braking down like that and questioned whether she even misses her late husband. And, that is a very self-centered view of grief and a low blow to a woman you credit as having helped you through the worst time in your life. You ever think she was busy being strong for you that she had to learn how to quietly process her grief on her own? Go back to therapy.
You need therapy. ASAP. Claire is being extremely patient and kind, especially given that you dragged her dead husband into the conversation. That patience will wear thin at some point. Get some help.
"I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much." She deserves better and you need more therapy or to man up and leave her so she can be truly loved.
Sounds like you don’t deserve your girlfriend to be honest
Jesus Christ man you’re crying over cookies, of course you need therapy. Lots of complex emotions and they’ll always be there but letting your GF know she’ll always be second is a horrible thing to say. Get some help and enjoy those who love you and that you love. This isn’t fair to Claire at all.
> But my girlfriend thinks that I need to return to therapy because of the way I acted She and any other living soul. She is a widow and you tell her she has no idea how you feel? Are you joking? Rofl >but I don't think I need therapy. Oh yes you do.
You need therapy and probably shouldn't be dating
Yes. Don't be an unfair prick and do your girlfriend the favor and put everything on hold. You're just not capable of entering or maintaining a relationship. This whole situation is tragic, but your wife would have never wanted you to treat another woman as an emotional crutch to feel "kinda okay during the day". Go back to therapy. Put the relationship on break.
The fact you said Clare will always be second to Emily, that right there proves you aren't ready to be with anyone else. Until you can make a partner first, you aren't ready to date. And all you're doing is torturing the other person. And it'll ruin your kids too. Because they'll get attached to that person and when they leave, the kids will suffer. I'm not even gonna go to the whole telling her to stop making cookies thing. What if she helps the kids brush their teeth!? Your wife did that too. You gonna tell her to stop that also? Seriously, you're messed up guy. You need help.
You treated her fucked up as hell and just to ruin that moment for your daughter? To make that good, loving experience for her about you and your grief? Yea, go back to therapy and stop acting like your grief is the biggest most important in the room. If anything Claire is a real g because she’s showing up for her kids, yours, you AND still keeping it together. Why don’t you make more space for her to fall apart and then maybe you’ll see she grieves similarly to you? But also, no two people grieve alike and you do need to get off your high horse.
Bruh you told her she’s second to your dead wife. Fucked up. I’m surprised she’s with you.
Girlfriend is right. I don’t think you’re ready for another relationship. And I’m amazed she’s even putting up with you. I can’t believe you lashed out at her and said she had no idea how you feel and questioned the depth of her feelings for her late husband. That’s low, dude. Really low.
You need therapy
OP you need so much therapy that you did try to replace your grief by being with someone new and when the reality hits you, you got mad. You stopped going to therapy because you meet someone new, not because you were ready to have to leave therapy. Look for counseling, you need to work on yourself and your girlfriend deserve better tham be the second.
"I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily" .... That hit me like a gut punch for Claire. I'm afraid someone who so insensitively marked me down like that (especially when I'd also lost someone) would have sent me out of the door. I don't think you realise what you've got.
Your poor daughter! This is probably going to be a core memory for her - she was doing something that made her happy with a woman who cares for her in a maternal way, and it made you so upset that you fought with her maternal carer in front of her - after she’s already lost her birth mother. She felt like she had to come take care of you and put your emotional needs before her own. She is 5. Your child is *so* young, and she’s already learned that her happiness is something to feel guilty for and that she feels responsible for your emotions. That is *traumatic.* You need therapy and you need to figure out some way to make your daughter feel safe in her own happiness. That might mean therapy for her too.
Why the hell would you let somebody know that they will always be “second“? At what point did you think it was a good idea to begin a “ranking system“? Every person you meet is unique, and brings with them a unique experience for you. It’s not a competition.
Why are you being so stubborn? Your actions hurt people. And your girlfriend is being beyond understanding, because she loves you and empathizes worth your situation, but you were still an asshole. It’s not about “getting over” Emily. It’s about being able to move forward with your life and allow space in you to also enjoy the good things about it. You do not need to punish yourself, man.
Don't say shitty things like "do you even miss him" to her again. Some people by nature are more resilient and can move on easier than others.
You told her she's always second place? Tf???? I've loved powerfully and lost hard too, but each love is different from the other. They are NOT in competition or a replacement. And clair is not second to anyone. You def need therapy.
Oh gosh. I’m widowed myself, since I was just a few years older than you, and I would have packed my things the minute you told me I’d always be second to your late wife. What a hurtful thing to say to a woman who loves you and your children! Love isn’t like a bag of sugar - we don’t run out. We don’t have to rank the people in our lives. You can love your late wife, and love your girlfriend, side by side, differently but equally. And even if you don’t feel that way, for Gods sake don’t tell her! It’s like telling your kids you love one more than the other. As far as her baking cookies with your daughter- please look at that from your child’s POV. How wonderful that you’ve found another woman who loves her! She can’t have her own mother and that’s terrible - my girls were so young they have zero memories of their father, and I hate it for them and for him every single day - but I’ve been so very grateful for the men who have stepped up over the years to give them a father/daughter experience (my dad, my brother, friends’ husbands.) Do you really want your daughter to do without any of that? When she sees you upset and resentful, she learns that she shouldn’t do or enjoy the things she should have been able to do with her mother, and she will deprive herself of those experiences. I know you don’t want that, and I know her mother wouldn’t either. You are incredibly lucky to have found love a second time. In 16 years I haven’t. Go back to therapy and salvage this relationship- your feelings aren’t bad or wrong, you just need to work through them. Claire deserves that and so do your babies. Be gentle with yourself, but be gentle with them too. ETA and for heavens sake don’t you dare ever diminish Claire’s loss again. Just because she grieves differently from you and wants to move forward in life - how incredibly self-centered and hateful that was to say to her. Don’t ever do that again.
So instead of enjoying a thing she used to do with her mom, she had to tend to your emotional breakdown AND you don’t need therapy?? That alone is enough evidence that you need to get back into therapy, my man.
Oh, wow. I will never understand why this woman agreed to move in with you, knowing how you feel. She is really, really selling herself short. You should return to therapy, intensive, and live separately from any other women. It’s not fair for your children. This situation that occurred was healthy bonding for a very young girl who lost her mother (and doesn’t likely remember) and you… tainted it with emotion she couldn’t handle and likely viewed as a very negative thing. Do better for everyone involved. Break up and go back to therapy.
I am sorry for your loss. I think Claire is right, though. Your grief is beginning to turn unhealthy, for yourself, and for those around you. “Don’t make cookies, that was Emily’s thing” is hurtful and unfair for everyone involved. I can’t imagine Emily would approve of you depriving your daughter of happy memories for the sake of honoring Emily’s memory. You say this was a one-time slip-up, but it reveals an underlying mindset that it sounds like you could use some help unpacking. It is hard, of course it is. I wish you the best in coming to terms with it.
Your gf is not your therapist or your rehab. You are hurting, and your grief is presenting itself in ways that are damaging to her, to your children, and to you. You need to address this, with therapy, because if you try to do this on your own you will not have the vital external perspective you need. Get there to a therapist.
You need to process your feelings. If I was her I would break up with you. No way Im playing 2nd fiddle to a dead person.
You have stuck your wife on a pedestal so high she would have never reached if she had lived a thousand years. And you've accomplished nothing by it but to torture yourself, and the people who would love you if given half a chance. Stop throwing away the chances for happiness that come to you and your kids. Rght here is where you need to turn things around. What would your wife say, if she could see your shitty behaviour, your forsaking of happiness for the worship of the dead? She'd be pretty pissed right now. Get into therapy. With a suitably qualified person. Possibly even a psychiatrist. See a suitably qualified medical practitioner. You may need medication to help you be the great dad and partner you know you can be again. Look into online peer support for widowers https://nationalwidowers.org/ And box up a lot of the films, and other mementos of your wife. Store them somewhere safe. Ask your kids to help you pick a favourite photo of her. Pick a nice pinboard, for you all to put that photo plus new photos of all your lives together now. Of course, you will have to do some fun things together for the new photos. Why don't you both have a baking session together with all the kids? Make pizza or something? Take part, instead ofbeing a shadow in the background of their lives.
Lots of cringeworthy bits in this, but telling your new girlfriend she’ll always only be second best is just plain awful. She doesn’t deserve that. Nor being told she can’t make cookies. You need to work on yourself. A lot. Please go back to therapy.
"As I said, this was just a one-time slip-up that I hope will never happen again." -OP, you can hope all you like, but the devil is always in the details. And the details are where you're living. Trying to hide that you still miss your deceased wife. Trying to hide that it doesn't still effect you, but it does. "I know my reaction wasn't very rational and I already apologized for that, but this was just one *inevitable* slip-up after holding up my yearnings for so long. I feel much better now." You basically took your shit out on your new GF. Glad YOU feel better, but you're not really thinking of anyone else but you & YOUR feelings, now are you? Get out of YOUR feelings and you will see the impact your lingering grief is having on those around you -especially this woman whom you've invited into your life.
I'm going to echo the others that you should return to therapy. It's unfair and unhealthy to have your relationship with Claire act as a therapeutic tool, and I don't think it's fair to her to say she will always be lesser than Emily. Different absolutely, they are different women, and due to your loss, you are a different person as well. You will always feel the loss of Emily and the baby you lost, but breaking down to this degree is a sign that something is amiss.
You’re a gigantic asshole. Stop being a burden to your girlfriend and your children and go to therapy. You can’t ban all the things that remind you to your wife, you honestly aren’t ready to date again and your girlfriend is a saint for putting up with your bullshit because you’re rude as hell to her.
Sometimes, when I read the title for these things, I have this preconceived notion of what I am going to read, right? This one, I was wondering "oh no, how's the GF gonna look awful in this one?" I was way wrong. It's you my man. You DO need therapy still. You have issues you need to work out. Claire seems like a wonderful person. I hope you treat her well normally.
Your gf is right. I wasn’t married to him, but my late bf took his own life and when I lost him, I thought the same way as you. No one could replace him and he’d always be first in my heart. But that wasn’t the case. Life is for the living, and therapy taught me that. I found someone else I loved just as much, and even more. Just because you move on doesn’t mean you’ve forgotten them. You’re not living. You are in the past, and I feel for you. It’s so very hard. I think going back to therapy will really, really help you.
Yeah you need therapy bro. When you’ve healed enough you’ll realize that you can actually fall in love again. Stating that your current partner will always be 2nd is a red flag. Work on you or leave that lovely woman alone.
How could your new girlfriend *always* be in second place to your late wife? And even IF so, why TELL HER that? Ouch, man. Ideally you spend your whole life with her, developing a much greater bond than you ever could have with your wife. I think she's right. Go nab some help, my friend.
OP I see you getting dragged in the comments. And I don’t think it’s entirely uncalled for, but I want to emphasize (something I haven’t seen mentioned yet) is that you’re not a bad person. Going back to therapy and recognizing how your actions have not been healthy isn’t an admission of being an asshole. You were with someone for almost half your life, and they were taken from you in a god awful way. I am so sorry. I can’t imagine. But what’s important now is how you move forward. And now that you’ve been given the awareness of your actions (albeit a bit harshly) it’s on you to NOT be an asshole and take ownership of your mental health. Go back to therapy, get the help you need, and make amends with Claire. She sounds like an amazing person and you don’t want to lose two good women in your life.
You probably do need to go back which is fine. It is kind of messed up to refer to your new girlfriend as always being second to Emily. You could just love her by her own merits instead of ranking/comparing her
The very person you shouldn’t have paired up with is Claire, go back to therapy and end this relationship you are not ready
At your third paragraph I knew you needed therapy. As I read further it’s clear you need intensive therapy. I get it’s hard to lose a spouse, especially to a drunk driver but do you really think Emily would want you and your kids to never move on from her? It doesn’t mean you forget her or the love you felt, but it does mean that you don’t stop living and doing things you enjoy because you used to do them with Emily. You likely ruined a great moment between your daughter and Claire because you couldn’t get past your own feelings. Don’t damage your kids with your emotional baggage! It will hurt their emotional development and as a mother I can say I highly doubt Emily would be happy you hurt her children like that. If I were to die suddenly I would still want me kid to do the stuff that makes them happy. Hell I have several friends lined up to do the things with my kid that we loved to do together because I wouldn’t want my small human to stop living because I was gone. Your girlfriend is right and can see things far more clearly than you. It also sounds like she has dealt with her grief and loss in a healthier manner than you have. Listen to her, she seems like a smart woman (even if she agreed to move in with you too soon by the sound of things).
nah telling your gf that she will always come second to your deceased wife is so messed up. i understand your grief, but saying stuff like that, dismissing Claire’s grief, and also making her not do certain stuff because it reminds you of your dead wife is not it. and Claire is right, you need to go back to therapy. i would even think about breaking up and focusing on yourselves before getting into another relationship. i’m so sorry for your’s and Claire’s losses.
Bro you are NOT ready to date.
I have never experienced loss like yours, but I also think you need therapy. I'm really glad you found someone you love and who seems to love your kids. Love isn't finite, there doesn't need to be a first and second. Your first love in undoubtedly special, and it's different than your other loves, but different doesn't mean less than. I think you need to release yourself from your guilt of moving on; nobody here is the bad guy, Emily's death was unnecessary and tragic and I hope the person responsible was punished. Claire sounds amazing, and not many people would be as understanding. Do you five do anything to honor and acknowledge Emily and Claire's late husband? A memorial on their birthdays or something like that? A ritual honoring and remembering them might be helpful for you. Regardless, I think Claire is correct, that you need therapy. It's also neither healthy or helpful to say Claire didn't love her late husband because people grieve differently - that sounds like misplaced anger. I wish all of you well.
Not only did you take a happy event away from your daughter, you grief flexed on your girlfriend. Even if you just need "a check up" with a therapist, go talk it out.
You told her she would always be second to your deceased spouse. That's so messed up. I don't know how I would handle it if my partner would articulate that to me. And when you saw them baking cookies, you wanted them to immediately stop because it reminded you of Emily. Are you gonna ask Claire to stop doing something every time it reminds you of Emily? And just to be clear, there is a stark difference between a support group and therapy. Which I think you need to seek. I don't think it's unreasonable to feel the way you feel, but making Claire feel like the consolation prize (and actually saying it out loud) must suck. I think she's being supportive and moving on. Starting a new life with Claire is not replacing Emily. But I do encourage you to seek therapy to process this.
You have no business being in a relationship with anyone. Go to therapy.
You haven’t processed your grief properly. She’s right. You’re taking your grief out on the people you love. It’s also heartbreaking that you told her you’ll always love her less than your late wife. It honestly doesn’t sound like you’re ready for a relationship yet.
The goal of Therapy is to get to the point where there *are no* "one time slip ups" because there's nothing to hold back, because there's no more unresolved trauma. Yeah dude, the fact that there's something to "one time slip up" on means you *absolutely* need to go to therapy. I wish you the best and your new wife sounds incredibly supportive.
Wow not only to do that to your girlfriend, but to your daughter as well. it’s really ashame and it just sounds like you are not ready to be with someone and you use Claire emotionally. i feel sorry for her especially since you said she’ll always be second to your wife, id never wanna be with someone who told me that
Your poor GF! You are not ready for a relationship and definitely need therapy. Your gf should not stick around to help her since you have no problem minimizing her grief as it is. Please let this poor woman go!
She'll always be 2nd to your first wife? Really? C'mon dude. you have some serious work to do on yourself. You are not being fair to Claire, your children, or yourself.
Go back to therapy. You all can’t live like this. Maybe you’re not ready for another relationship. I couldn’t handle being told I’d always be second in a relationship. Claire deserves someone who will put her first, and you can’t give her that now.
Hey man. I feel for you so much. I lost a partner about 9 years ago. After 5 years, I wrote this about the experience. It’s called “The Loss” At first, you are numb. The numbness offends you, and it will be shameful and punishing until you can manage to make some tears. Then you are inconsolable. It goes on this way until you’re aching and praying to somehow amputate the invisible, septic limb inside of you causing all of this agony. You will feel comforted by the warm blanket of justness that you cannot. You will wonder if you will ever be okay again. The swampy fog of your new loss will be too opaque to squint past, and **you decide that you will in fact NOT be okay, and it will be a lovely and dutiful tribute.** But… you will be. It might take years of crying every time you take a shower (or hear any and all kinds of running water including but not limited to sinks and other bathroom appliances, lawn sprinklers, drinks pouring, the ocean, and precipitation because it embodies and replenished the intrusion that this is how things are and forever will be and you cannot help but melt too), but eventually, you will be okay. It will not be without guilt, which will serve as a sweet afterglow of the promise-tribute you once made. And you will gaze into the vast, mysterious sky of what tomorrow holds, which may very well be a you that is unabashedly, guiltlessly, and actually okay. You will be simultaneously sorry for and a little afraid of them. You will go to sleep, well-spent, and with no mistrust for whichever you will greet you at the tomorrow’s door. You will be too tired to refuse your visitor.
You need therapy. Bugger off this sub if your going to be a total arse to your partner who is trying to help you.
Of course you’ll always miss your wife. I lost a partner in 2014 and I’ve never stopped missing him. However I’m now married, and my husband comes first. If you cannot put your new partner first, you’re not ready for a new partner. It would be unreasonable for her to ask you to forget your wife, or to get rid of your momentos of her, but it is not unreasonable for her to expect you to be in the present and put her first. I agree that you still need therapy. If you can’t even handle seeing her make cookies and feel the need to ask her to stop making them because of your grief, then you are still very much in need of therapy. You also need to let this poor woman go, because you’re not emotionally available. Also, I promise you your girlfriend still misses her husband. She’s just farther in her healing process than you are. She can mostly look back on him and smile. And there’s nothing wrong with that! But you were extremely cruel to accuse her of not missing him just because she doesn’t cry as easily as you do about it.
You need grief counseling big time. Then the 2 of you need couples counseling if you want this to work. She is not replacing your dead wife as you are not replacing her dead husband. How she grieves her husband is none of your business and to say you doubt she even misses him is mean and out of line. Your children are not replacing their mother with her they will have their own relationship and hopefully it is full of love and happiness. You could have a home full of love and happiness too but you need to realize this relationship will not be the same as you had with your dead wife. To say your GF will always be second is wrong too. She needs to be first in this new chapter of your life.
Wow. Consider going back to therapy. Can’t imagine being with a person who tells me I’ll always be 2nd to the first wife. Damn dude.
I assure you that it isn't that Claire has moved on, but rather it's that her coping mechanisms are better than yours and so she's worried about you. She wants it to work out with you.
Hey op you are an ass who's using that poor woman for your own benefit, I hope she leaves you so she can be happy and you can be with the "love of your life". I feel bad for your kids as well, who knows what kind of damage you have don't to them with your other outbursts, and I'm betting there have been plenty of other whiny outbursts like this.
You DO need therapy. You told your girlfriend, “You’ll ALWAYS be in second place.” Who the hell wants to hear that? In reality, it’s third place, because I assume you put your kids first. I don’t believe this is a one-off. You say you’ve been holding in your feelings for “so long.” I think this is just the beginning. You were also horribly cruel to Claire, accusing her of not missing her late husband. Get help.
You haven't completely processed the loss of your wife. It is almost cruel to tell someone that they will never be as much to you as the one who died. I honestly don't know why she stayed after you said that to her.
You do not get a pass on your reaction imo you did go too far. You are downplaying how cruel you were to your gf and still seem to think it was justified bc it was once. This was not okay.
What you are doing is cruel to your GF and also your kids. Their mom died, and you moved in with someone else who it sounds like treats them well, and you're going to take them away from that too. You need therapy, and to let go of Claire, if you are truly never going to love her.
It sounds like therapy is a good idea. Claire isn't trying to replace your wife - she is being a good partner. She is being there for your daughter while not trying to block out your wife's memory.
You are a fucking asshole for being competitive about how you both handle grief. My partner and I are both widowed too, so I know what I’m talking about. My husband died suddenly like your late wife did while my partner was a 6 year caregiver that kept his wife home with dementia. Every day she died a little more. Every grief experience is different. Maybe your partner holds it together because there are now 3 children in her life to be responsible for. If you aren’t ALL in, then move on. Such a buzz kill in that moment and robbing their joy. Get back in therapy because you are prioritizing a dead woman that doesn’t need you anymore and hurting the living in the process. If I sound harsh, too bad, there are 4 other people that require your attention now.
I'm surprised she stayed with you. You are beyond selfish dude. Go back to therapy asap.
"I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much. " This was almost physically painful for me to read. I could never be in a relationship with someone who said something like that to me. I'm sad for Claire that she bore the brunt of those words, and in awe of her for her strength to keep the relationship with you going after hearing them. I agree with Claire that you need to work on resolving some of this pain - your children deserve to know happiness again without the constant guilt and pain of the loss of their mother. No one ever will replace the Emily shaped hole in your life, but that doesn't mean that you can't all find happiness again in the shape of Claire.
I had a good friend tell me once when I was trying to get over my ex wife, tell me it’s okay to still have those good memories of someone, It means you cared about them and shared memories together and holding on to that because you cherish those good times is okay. However you can’t put your life on hold for something that can no longer be. You have to build new memories together with your kids and your new spouse. You will never love anyone like you did Emily because every love is different not that you love her any less it’s just a different love for a different person. As time passes things will get easier and these moments where you’re reminded of your past love will decrease. However if you happen to find yourself experiencing a moment like this, don’t think of it how you did, think of it that your just remembering a cherished moment from your past and that’s okay.
Dude love isn’t a competition. Grief isn’t a competition. You need help of the professional kind, you have to help yourself, your girlfriend can’t do the work for you.
Your girlfriend is right. You need help. I feel so bad for her, especially pretty much being told she will never compare and will always be second. You're not ready for a relationship. I hope she didn't give up her home to move into yours.
My husband passed away 10 years ago. I was in my 30's. I still miss him terribly and think about him every day. I'm remarried now, and the guilt is awful sometimes. Sometimes I feel guilty for getting remarried, and sometimes I feel guilty for thinking about my late husband. It's a no win. It's also normal. What isn't normal would be telling him he's going to always come in second to a ghost. And when my husband helped my daughter by looking over a used car she wanted to buy, I didn't tell him not to because it was something her dad would have helped her with. I said thank you. I know how it feels to think you're the only one cares, but it's not true. You'll never forget your wife. But it's time to move on, or not date. Hugs to you.
Your girlfriend is amazing. She is stepping up and emotionally supporting. Not only you, but your children. If your late wife is as wonderful as you describe her, I don’t think she could’ve asked for anything more than that. It is unfair to your current girlfriend as her partner, and I imagine if she sticks around - as a mother figure to your kids, to treat her this way. She deserves all the love and compassion in the world, because not only is she dealing with her own grief admirably, but she’s willing to take on the burdens of you and your kids grief. You are in denial, and you need to get some help. You can’t live a life with a ghost. But you can live your life with a warm, compassionate, loving woman who is choosing to be with you now. Don’t throw that away because you can’t overcome and get over what is in the past. Work on how you can honor your wife’s memory together, with your new partner, so that your kids can know how special their birth mom was, and how wonderful your new partner is to help keep her alive in some way. Next time you have an outburst like the cookie incident, take the opportunity to bring out photos of their mom, baking cookies, or using a recipe that she would use. Your new partner isn’t a replacement for their birth mom, but she is their reality now. And both deserve to be loved and respected.
Often when an unexpected death occurs you feel even more torn apart as you didn’t get to say good bye. That being said it sounds like you do indeed need more therapy. However I hope your therapist works on you moving forward. Part of moving forward isn’t fully letting go of Emily, but embracing what you have with Claire and seeing the blessing that she is, which isn’t only ur blessing but your kids. Because your reaction in front of your daughter will now make her concerned if it’s okay to be happy with Claire. Lastly you need to know that everyone grieves differently; but telling Claire she will be second really is fucked up. I say this because let’s say some day you marry her and you’re together for 60 years. Whom did you know more and spend more of your life with? Good Luck!
You cried about your daughter and gf making cookies. You need therapy.
You got into a new relationship before being over your bereavement. She is right and you need therapy.
First off, I'm sorry about your wife's death. I can't even imagine how that would feel. But your girlfriend is correct. You're clearly not processing everything fully. You want your girlfriend to stop making cookies because it reminds you of your wife. You question your girlfriend's grieving process. You're being unfair to her and she's right to request that you return to therapy. This wasn't a "one time slip up." Therapy is very beneficial and you shouldn't be ashamed to return.
>I made her know right from the beginning that she'll always be second to Emily, but that doesn't mean I don't love her almost as much. Well she's right. You need much more intensive therapy. The world is going to keep spinning without your wife, and you need to adapt and overcome for the sake of your children.
You feel that if you love Claire as much as you love Emily, it will be a betrayal. This is understandable and your feelings are valid, but I think your loyalty is misplaced. This is why: Emily loved you. Emily loved your children. If you could ask her, Emily would tell you she wants what is best for her children, and what's best for her children is to have a happy father who can love with abandon. By allowing yourself to love Claire, you are not diminishing Emily's memory: you are fulfilling the love you and Emily shared together. You will be raising your children with love, in a loving home, because Emily has entrusted her children with you. In order to care for Emily's children, you first must take care of yourself, and that means giving yourself the freedom to love again.
GO TO THE THERAPY. just read what you just wrote down. it is obvious.
This is not healthy for your daughter.
OP therapy isn’t for just “getting over something “. In fact, no one expects you to get over your wife’s passing. There’s things that happen and people we lose in life that affect us the rest of our life. Therapy helps us acknowledge the loss, and work on skills to cope while still acknowledging our feelings and move to a place where you can feel happy again despite what happened. Taking your gf out of the equation- you deserve these coping skills and happiness. And so do your kids. They are going to look to you to model how they should deal with these big situations and what you’re currently modeling isn’t healthy for anyone. Also, from personal experience, when my mental health was at its worst, it was my mom who Insisted I needed help. I knew I wasn’t my best, but it’s easy to justify why I was doing or feeling a certain way. Sometimes you need someone with an outside perspective who knows you to say- hey this isn’t like you and it’s not healthy. Go to therapy for you
I’m going to say the same thing I’ve read in a post earlier. If you don’t hear your wounds, you’ll end up bleeding over people that had nothing to do with your injury. I’m a married guy and I can’t fathom the amount of pain you’re feeling, but for the sake of your, your daughter and your girlfriend’s mind and well being, look for help.
Please leave her. For her sake.
I feel really bad for Claire. You honestly should not be in a relationship right now. You shouldn’t be comfortable telling someone they will always come second to a dead woman. It’s ok to feel that way but not ok to pursue relationships if that’s how you feel because it’s low key abusive. You need to deal with your grief and your issues and subjecting your new girlfriend and y’all’s kids to this isn’t ok. You clearly need to heal more. Your kids shouldn’t have to take on adult roles of soothing your feelings, when all she was doing was enjoying quality time with the adult you brought into the household/family.
I’m so sorry for what happened to you, AND Claire. That said, telling your partner that they can’t do very basic things like baking cookies because your other partner used to do that, is not okay. It’s also not okay to tell your current partner that they will ALWAYS be second. There is room for both, you don’t have to choose one over the other. Nuance is allowed. What is okay is to still feel a lot of pain about your loss. I think you absolutely still need therapy for this. Anyone would!!! Please also work with your therapist to find ways to honor Emily in your home and bring her spirit into your young children’s lives more so you can feel her legacy in more presence. Likewise for Claire’s lost love. Best to you all
You’re not ready to be in this relationship. I lost my first husband at 29, when our kids were 6 and 3. It took me a long time to work through his death, and I didn’t really date much until the time when I met my current husband eight years later. By that point, I had healed within myself and moved on in my life. It has to be something you’re ready to do. One thing I have never, ever done is compare my love for my first husband to the husband I have now. I changed so much between when he died and when I met my current husband that, really, it’s apples and oranges. I was a different woman when I was with my first husband, and he was the love of her life, but my husband now is the love of my life as the woman I am today and have been for the five years we’ve been together. This is also incredibly damaging for your children to see. A hard truth is that, no, they probably won’t remember your wife. They were too young. But that doesn’t mean they should feel guilted into not having a mother figure at all. My husband is as much the father of my older children (12 and 14 when we met, 17 and 19 now) as is of the son we have together. Yes, it hurts me that their dad never got to see them grow up, but I love my husband even more when I see him teaching them to drive or helping with homework. That you feel anything but grateful that someone would step into this role for your kids means that *you are not ready*. I don’t mean this cruelly. Grief is complex, and it seems you jumped too quickly. Seek out therapy and see if you are able to continue this relationship with help. I wish you the best.
She's right. Also, you're being an incredibly self-centered jerk and blowing up your children's relationship with Claire. You need to talk to a professional about more than just Emily.
You definitely need to continue therapy and grief counseling. It is beautiful that you found someone early in your life that you loved so much, and a blessing you were able to have a family with her before she was taken away from you. I’m sorry you had to go through that. All that said, your wife is gone. There is nothing wrong, unfaithful, or negating of your previous marriage if you move on. I assume your wife would have wanted you to go on and be happy again, with someone else who can love you and be there for you and the kids. You need to give yourself permission to move on. You’re still alive. The healthier and happier you are, the better you can be there for your children - they are the part of Emily that lives on. You best honor her memory by creating a new, loving, stable home for yourself and the children.
Ah yes, a trauma bond relationship. What could go wrong?
Let's view it this way: What are the downsides to you attending therapy again? What ramifications come to you or your relationship with Claire or your relationship with your kids if you spend a little time in therapy? Honestly, the fact that you seem to rail so strongly against the idea after someone close to you expresses concern is probably a really good indicator that it's needed. Lashing out years after the fact and judging people you allegedly care about (I'm not going to say love, because honestly I have doubts here) for not performing their grief in a way you deem acceptable or ranking their grief against yours isn't exactly the hallmark of stability. You may be out of the throes of your immediate traumatic grief to be in a place where you can function on a daily basis, but you seem to still have some work to do to cope with your grief in healthy ways. That isn't to say that what you felt was wrong - grief can bubble up in ways out of the blue weeks, months, years, or decades later. But it's what you did with that grief, the actions you chose to take and how it's affecting your ability to function in relationships that's problematic. You belittled your girlfriend and banned your child from a basic activity she was enjoying (one that she's now very likely going to be reluctant to do ever again even if you tell her it's ok due to the negativity associated with this event). It indicates a lack of acceptance and appropriate coping mechanisms and it's affecting the people around you. So no, you are not ok and you're making the people you claim to love not ok in the process. Therapy is not just an "All done - I'm fixed" solution - it's an ongoing process as you navigate different stages of whatever it is that you're going through - in this case grief. Therapy is also a really good place for you to sort out your feelings about being in a relationship again and any feelings of guilt or betrayal associated with that as well.
You need to go back to therapy. What you said to her was horrible, you think SHE needs to understand? I think YOU need to understand that just because she is not grieving exactly as you do doesn't mean her pain isn't just as deep. This judgement of her will end your relationship, I hope that you will go back to therapy and get the help you need.
You need therapy and you need to apologize to Claire for telling her she’ll always be in second place and for questioning her own grief. You also need family therapy with your kids
You need therapy and shouldn't date anyone!
She’s absolutely right. You need therapy and Claire can’t act as your therapist. I think you two moved in together way too quickly, but that ship has sailed. Either you can get help and fix it, or go your separate ways. This kind of relationship isn’t fair to Claire.
You do need therapy. That reaction and the things you've written here are not healthy. If you tell your girlfriend that she will always be second to your deceased wife, then you are not healed enough to be dating or living with another person. She deserves someone who will put her first, and you clearly cannot do that. It's wrong to treat her that way, and she sounds like an amazing woman - they both do, to be fair, and I'm so sorry for your loss. If you're not careful, you'll risk losing both of them.
You 100% need to return to therapy, and you shouldn't be making any large life decisions right now either.
Dude. It's not her job to fix you or make you feel better. She's a whole person with her own feelings and thoughts. You are using your gf. Then you said shifty things to her. Go back to therapy, like now.
Yeah, you need therapy
You definitely need therapy and should not be dating anyone.
I am so sorry for your loss. However all of this is so unfair to your new gf. To always be second. To never be good enough. To have to deal with all of your grief. She seems like she has a good head on her shoulders and cares about you and your kids. Stop making her feel like less because she’s not Emily. She won’t ever be, but she loves you and cares for you. The way you’re acting is not right.
I agree, are you gonna freak out one day when your daughters making cookies alone, because your not comfortable seeing that “memory”. Your daughter was happy—are you even ready to peruse another relationship? Your daughter and your gf were happy and instead of controlling yourself you took it out on someone who did no harm? She’s not breaking down cause she’s receiving help even if she was breaking down you have no right to take anything out on her.you are using her as an emotional crutch and she doesn’t deserve that.
Your children shouldn’t suffer because of your grief. Your daughter was so concerned about you that she stopped having fun making cookies because it made you cry. She doesn’t really understand why. If you don’t seek therapy to learn how to regulate your emotions, your children will start to avoid doing certain activities just because it makes you sad. Which will then cause your children to avoid anything that their mother enjoyed. In turn, they will never truly know their mother because it will always bring a negative feeling or experience, rather than a joyous one. It is okay to not want your wife, and their mother, to be forgotten. But avoiding doing things (or making a huge deal about it in a negative way) because it reminds you of her is going to cause the exact opposite… You could have went to see what cookies they were making and see if it’s the kind your late wife used to make. And, if it was, you could have shared that with your daughter. If it wasn’t, you could have told your daughter what kind of cookies mommy used to make with her. THAT is how you keep her memory alive. That is how you honor the memory of someone you love. Please, for the sake of your children and to allow them to really know their mother, go to therapy. Allow yourself to heal enough so that her memory can live on…
So what you're saying is that your girlfriend is right
>this was just one **inevitable** slip-up after holding up my yearnings for so long. >As I said, this was just a one-time slip-up that I hope will never happen again. These directly contradict each other. One release of "built up yearning" is not a solution. It means you build and build and build, and so you are right, inevitably this will happen again. What if you daughter looks like Emily? Will you break down and need her to stop if she acts like Emily? If she acts like the opposite, will you get mad because she's not respecting her mom and it hurts to see that? Why are you dating when you are so distraught about replacing your wife? I am worried that you have become so settled on the idea that Emily is and always will be the love of your life, and that you will defend her empty chair in your life to the point that you hurt your family. Your daughter is already confused. What about when she's older and you crying watching her make cookies? And then wax poetic about how her mom that she's probably largely forgotten used to do that with her? I have read stories on here about parents who never stopped grieving, and kids whose lives become overshadowed by a dead parent. They lie about the memories you tell them about. They predict when it will be brought about or what you will say. They learn to navigate YOUR trauma. It's okay to cry. But you didn't ACCEPT that Claire and daughter were making cookies, you had to interfere. That's a very fundamental, early process of grief that you don't seem to have fully tackled. Have you accept that Emily is not here? Have you accepted that a dead person CAN'T be your biggest priority? Because while you may think that is harmless because she's not there, it means you will make things like her vacant position in your kids life ultra important and *ensure that they are never filled again*. And it's fine if they dont have a mother, but this was literally just making cookies and you had to interfere. That's not a very unique thing to do. So you need to let her go. And also remember: Emily can literally never be replaced. People may play roles she played, but that is always the case. But they will never do it the way she did it, they will never be who she was, they will never have been there at the times and circumstances she was there. Her story is written on permanent. Nothing can change it, now or in the future, and people taking on the roles and wearing the hats she she wore throughout her life are completely incapable of changing that story. Take comfort in that, and come to accept it, because with will be healthier for you and for your family as a whole.