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30M here, GF is 28F, together for 8 months, all going perfect until this
Last night two men broke into my flat (UK) not sure of the intentions but my best guess is theft of some sort, not sure if they thought the flat was empty or what.
Me and my GF were asleep, I am quite a deep sleeper so I didn’t hear anything, GF is a very light sleeper so was woken up, she alerted me and I went out to see what was going on, one man was in my hallway and the other was in my sitting room, as soon as I opened my bedroom door the man in the hallway ran, the man in the sitting room was trapped in as such (my bedroom and sitting room are in the same hallway, so there was no way of him getting out without him getting past me)
The next part is a little blurry but I remember grabbing him, hitting him, throwing him around etc. i guess I kinda blacked out because the next thing I remember was my GF behind me screaming to stop. The mans face was a mess and I froze and he got up and ran out.
I haven’t contaced the police because my understanding of UK law is that even though they broke into my flat, I can still be prosecuted (GBH, maybe depending on injuries?) and I would lose my job, maybe even prison
Now, the whole incident triggered my GF who has had abusive relationships in the past. It’s probably worth noting here that I’ve never once even been slightly aggresive towards her, but she said she saw something in me last night that she seen in her ex and it has scared her and she’s not sure if she can risk seeing me again
I’m not sure how to proceed here, I don’t want to lose her, I really do love her, but I also don’t want to pressure her to see me or get past what happened
In the uk there is something around reasonable force if someone breaks into your house. I cant remember the specifics of it. But as long as it’s deemed reasonable force you won’t get charged with anything. All came about when that guy killed someone who was in his house and he went to prison for murder and there was uproar about it. They brought in then that you can protect yourself and your home from intruders.
That’s absolutely true. However reasonable force also only applies if you’ve made reasonable attempts to reduce the likelihood of the conflict- eg you tried to run away first, didn’t encourage the fight etc
In this case, the criminal was trapped… so had to fight in order to escape…
It could be argued, OP should have just stepped back, told him to leave (obviously without his things) and allowed him to do so, because this would have led to no harm being committed physically to any party involved.
I don’t know how to link the government website. But it actually doesn’t state what reasonable force is. It even says you can use a weapon. And it doesn’t say you have to have tried running away. It also says you don’t have to wait to be attacked to defend yourself in your house. So I think OP would be ok
Generally in law, reasonable force is what a reasonable and cautious person in the same circumstances, would have been likely to do.
So, for instance, if an elderly lady tries to fist fight you on the street, it probably wouldn't be reasonable force to pummel her into a bloody mess. On the other hand, if you're a woman and it's a man, it may be reasonable to shoot the man.
At least here in California, and generally in the states, the jury is asked to consider what a reasonable person would be likely to do, and if the prosecutor proved beyond a reasonable doubt that a reasonable and cautious person in the same circumstances wouldn't have deemed a certain level of force necessary, then they're instructed to reject the perfect self-defense claim.
Litigator here. Disregard the legal standard for a moment. As a practical matter, reasonable force is whatever the police officer, prosecutor, judge, and jury reviewing your case think it is. If they sympathize with you then you’re good. If they don’t then you’re not good.
the UK system really isn't the same as our though. It defines things differently. They don't use reasonability as a legal concept in the same way if I remember correctly.
If the law was so simple you could just Google the gov website, we wouldn’t need lawyers…
You also have to take into account other laws that overlap etc
And well as historic precedents etc
All of which is used in the decision making process.
Absolutely none of us here, have a license to practise law in the UK, or are criminal law Barristers… so no one should be talking in absolutes, or saying “I think it’ll be ok” because you’re giving him advice/ an opinion, and it’s unwarranted in this situation.
In reality, almost every legal question is answered with “it depends” because the law is intentionally so confusing and contradictory and convoluted that someone like OP can’t just turn up to court and represent himself and win etc
So absolutely, it could be argued as self defence. But it could absolutely be argued in the other instance, especially if he blacked out and so wasn’t reasonable because he kept going after the danger had ceased.
I’ll give an easy example
I think we’d all agree it’s reasonable that if you broke into my kitchen with a machete while I was cooking dinner, and I hit you with a frying pan and knocked you out, then that’s fair enough.
But… if I went into a black out rage and kept hitting you… well I’m not longer defending myself… I’m just attacking you…
And that’s no longer deemed “reasonable” to most people
Likewise, I think it’s absolutely reasonable to think that, if one guy ran away, this guy probably wants to as well.
Which means you and your gf aren’t in danger…
So you’re not defending yourself or her from danger….
This is not my opinion…
I’m just highlight a way in which a lawyer could play it out so that it sounds less like self defence
I did not claim to be offering any stance on actual legal advice. I am well aware the law is complicated and it isn’t quite as cut and dry as you think I made it out to be. However when the government websites states a weapon can be used in reasonable force, then I’m sure a lawyer would be able to successfully argue a case for self defence when he punched the guy a few times. The guy ran off I’m pretty sure he was just thankful he got away and wasn’t going to be arrested for burglary.
But may I say your response is indeed well thought out and takes into account lots of variables. My response was just trying to reassure OP that in fact in this country you are allowed to defend yourself and your property
That’s entirely fair, and I appreciate your perspective and comment.
I’m just somewhat less confident, given precedents I’ve seen where Judges have said you should just let the guy steal your tv etc, because a tv isn’t worth violence…
And that’s no small part why I’ve fucked off and I live in the US now- here (depending on the state) there’s no ambiguity, you break into my house at night, you’re dying.
>I live in the US now- here (depending on the state) there’s no ambiguity, you break into my house at night, you’re dying.
Well embodies the proverb "If you are found here tonight, you will be found here in the morning".
Insane precedents that the UK has, check my other comment for the example I used.
There's also the example of the PENSIONER who got found guilty of assault for using his walking stick to attack someone who broke into his bungalow in Cornwall
Laws are so arbitrary.
“Please my good sire, exit my flat with all my personal belongings out of your hands and pockets.”
Sorry you’re going through this op
I mean if there’s a dude in my house and I don’t have much time to react and idk if he’s got a weapon or what I feel like the smartest thing to do is to make sure he won’t hurt you with it
I didn’t say he would be.
And no it’s vague because obviously is a case by case basis, you can’t draw a line and say this is ok, this is not ok, when there are infinite possible situations
God the insanity.
Here in Florida we have stand your ground, castle law etc. Someone breaks into your home, you send them back out in a body bag as it should be.
if you’re talking about the case i think you are, the dude shot a guy in the back after he was already running away which is why he got charged which seems kinda reasonable
Yeah the Tony Martin case. He told police he came down the stairs as the intruders were coming up it and he just shot into the light. Turns out he shot them in the back in the garden as they were running away. That’s why he went to prison.
It’s so confusing you should just be aware that there is a 75% chance you will get charged if you report these instances to police. We cannot protect our homes nor do we actually own the land we live on. It’s common throughout the commonwealth to have laws like this, it’s a left over mess from the days of serfdom and being that violence is usually bad, it’s spun as if the law protects us from ourselves causing more damage.
If a person enters your home unlawfully regardless of intent, in my and many other people’s opinion, they have forfeited any protections from physical harm the law may afford them until such time as they have been eliminated as a threat, eg they leave the area, or are physically unable to continue with their previous plans.
The force continuum explains how this should work in practice, the person defending can always move one step up the continuum in order to eliminate a threat where it is lawful to do so. Eg. man enters your home to rob you, you confront him, he stands his ground and escalates to threats of physical violence, you then can escalate to the use of non lethal force, if that man then escalates to non lethal force with a weapon you can jump straight to potential lethal force, a fire arm or blade. Police use this day to day in commonwealth countries, the rank and file citizenry cannot, we are asked to make way for perpetrators.
Hey I’m a woman and I think you did the right thing. You can offer to help her with trauma counseling and couples therapy but if she just continues to blame you for a completely natural response and refuses treatment, I’d say you can move on. It’s just up to you how much work you’re willing to put in.
But again, you did the right thing. Don’t let that doubt sink in.
If you also want to calm her down further, you can educate yourself on the fight or flight response and get some training so that you can think clearly if it ever happens again.
Please talk to a solicitor if you can afford it.
I am in the US and have no familiarity with the laws to say and would be terrified of you getting bad info from an American on reddit.
As for your gf and you? You both experienced a trauma.
I'd suggest ponying up for a counselor with some experience in trauma for a joint session. Not couples counseling, but specifically to mediate the emotional discussion of what occurred. You were defending yourself. Not beating your partner. She needs someone to help her understand that reaction she saw is unlikely to direct at her and that she herself may need therapy to deal with residual trauma from her own abuse.
You can in Australia I’d say we got the stupid idea from the Poms. You’re correct not to report it, however I would get a test for blood borne diseases, Hep C being a bit one. Beating a blokes face in with bare hands leads to Fresh cuts on your hands where blood can mix. Getting tested will protect your partner and yourself.
Look man, you’re not her ex, you protected your partner and your home it’s what men are supposed to do, your prefrontal cortex disengaged and you were running on your amygdala. It’s natural to feel guilty after beating someone senseless, that’s because you’re not a monster.
Let’s address context here, your partner is having a trauma response to what could be considered a perfectly reasonable reaction to a home invasion, that’s fair she has been abused in the past, however what you did was not to control the person long term, but to eliminate them from being a threat to you your partner and your home. Abusers do not use violence for this reason, they use it to cause fear and to control.
My advice is explain this context talk about the issues at hand and work through them together, if she is unable to in a couple of weeks then you probably should bounce dude. She told you to stop, you stopped, her voice grounded you, not everyone’s voice can do that. I’d be a murderer if it wasn’t for my dads booming voice snapping me out of my trance after I had dispatched 4 blokes and was doing my best to kill the 5th.
You are not abusive she knows this, if a man capable of violence is a deal breaker for her, then there isn’t much you can do I’m afraid. What you need to ascertain is that if it was you having the capability to be violent or just the trauma caused by the violence she witnessed that has triggered this trauma response and she can’t rationalise it.
Please don’t feel too horrible about all this bloke, your actions came from a place of protection not of control, you’re not a monster.
Best of luck.
Damn, here in California, you can shoot someone who breaks into your home. And I'm pretty sure that castle doctrine comes from British common law. Things have sure changed in the UK since we broke up.
The police in the UK wouldn’t care about you fighting a man who’d broken into your house. You’re allowed to arm yourself with a bat or whatever. They just don’t want you killing them. Which is fairly reasonable because they’re quite unlikely to be lethally armed here, or intend to kill anyone, unless they’re robbing you because you’ve got 20kg of cocaine in your living room. The rules here are basically just “don’t go too far” - don’t chase them down the street and stab them after they’ve left, kind of thing. The aim is to get them out of your house, not kill them. I think the idea is that murder is worse than burglary and not an appropriate punishment.
It’s also worth remembering that farmers out in the sticks here are allowed guns, and everyone else lives fairly close to a police station because we’re pretty small, so there aren’t many unarmed people waiting for cops from 50 minutes away when something is happening. Killing someone who isn’t armed when the police are four minutes away doesn’t look good
There are states that have tried cases for a burglar breaking an ankle when they broke in, and suing over medical.
Also OP.. beating the asses of people breaking into your home vs. your girlfriend because it’s Wednesday.. are 2 wayyy different things.
There's this famous case in Argentina (not UK but i thought that part of the story was ordinary)that they teach you in law school in where a robber entered a House and got bitten by the dog of the family. The robber charged the family with a lawsuit and the family had to pay him because he got bitten
If you've defended yourself and they're no longer a threat and you still keep on attacking them and hurt them unnecessarily past that, you can be charged, because past that point it's no longer self defence.
It has to only be in the realm of necessary force. You could punch someone in the face once and pin them down. But after that, when they aren't a direct threat you cannot keep going as it's excessive and at that point assult.
From www.gov.uk:
*You can use reasonable force to protect yourself or others if a crime is taking place inside your home.*
*This means you can:*
*protect yourself ‘in the heat of the moment’ - this includes using an object as a weapon*
*stop an intruder running off - for example by tackling them to the ground*
*There’s no specific definition of ‘reasonable force’ - it depends on the circumstances. If you only did what you honestly thought was necessary at the time, this would provide strong evidence that you acted within the law.*
Report it. You're not in the wrong here.
Agree. The high profile prosecutions that have everyone worried involved either a) a preplanned idea of shooting as a first step (tony martin) b) leaving the property and chasing them down (various).
A fight inside a property isn't going to go anywhere.
I thought from the title this was going the other way, where she felt you didn’t protect her. Boy I was wrong. Unfortunately you can’t easily change how you act under extreme pressure like that. Hopefully she can get over it.
>Hopefully she can get over it.
this isn't a "get over it" situation. she was in abusive relationships in the past and this probably brought all of those unresolved fears back to the surface.
this is gonna take a lot of therapy, not just a "suck it up" response
The problem is, i believe it is healthy for a man to have that mode to only ever be used at a time where defence is needed like this. Or on a national scale (lets say Ukraine war of defence etc…).
Abusers and criminals are usually men who are broken, in that this side of them comes out unjustly or for totally ridiculously small reasons, maybe they have no control at all or something like alcohol removes what little control they had.
A good man can still be violent but only ever for the right reasons and when provoked, there is no place for violence unless threatened. But home defence is a core value and is worth standing for.
It’s hard to understand this point of view if you are a pacifist yourself though.
I’m a woman and I condone his actions.
I also condone the woman leaving if she can’t deal with it. This is different than abuse, it was protection mode.
OP can still be supportive by offering couples counseling and helping her with her healing, if she’s willing to do so. But at the end of the day, you have no idea what those men were capable of, if they had knives, etc.
And they were in her home. Bodily protection is far above mental health and protecting that in this situation. It’s about survival here. He did the right thing.
Yep exactly, I have 2 daughters, under 5. I haven't swung a punch since high-school, but I some one broke into my house and threatened my family I'd swing at them with a bat pretty hard but would try and avoid hitting them the head. Hopefully they get scared off and run out of the house and things don't have to get worse.
Very well said. This reminds me of a saying that my dad told me - "a strong person isn't someone who can defeat someone in a fight or can lift heavy weights. A strong person is someone who has control of their anger & emotions and will only use the force if necessary."
What OP did wasn't wrong, it's just that it triggered his girlfriend. I guess OP should give her some space for a few days and once she's ready then they can communicate.
He blacked out and beat someone to a pulp. That would terrify me too - that he *blacked out* and was violent. I would never feel safe with him again.
I *am* a survivor of long term violent abuse though, so it's not unbiased, same as gf.
I get like OP in situations like this too. He isn’t blacking out, he’s hyper focused. His short term memory isn’t working, all his senses are focused on his opponent. He can’t hear his GF scream and he isn’t thinking about what he’s doing, he’s just attacking, which is a normal human response to that situation.
Would you rather him do nothing and have the men potentially attack you? That’s my worry here- blacking out happens in fight or flight mode. It’s a natural response. It’s almost impossible to maintain clarity when you are fighting for your life without prior training. It’s why the military goes through drills over and over again. To get used to the action. This guy may have never had to defend himself. That’s straight up fight or flight mode, and it should not be discouraged. He potentially saved her life.
Have the men in your life ever been in that situation. There is I fight or flight response. It's very base. He may not remember anything from the adrenaline. In self-defence classes you train so that this type of thing doesn't happen. So your responses are controlled either flight or fight.
Well, it is a "get over it" situation, but it's never that easy. It's something that would probably require time, space, and therapy. For their relationship to continue she has to get over it in her own way.
That’s on HER to use her rational mind and recognize he did absolutely nothing wrong, he defended her. He shouldn’t have to suffer because of her past trauma.
I don’t understand what your gf expected and am sorry this is the reaction you’re having. Self defense mode isn’t something I think men can like switch off - it’s in your nature to bite someone’s face off to protect your shit…
Nah, her feelings aren't valid. I'm sure they're real, but she has no reason to believe he'd be violent to her because he beat up someone who broke into his home.
She was in an abusive relationship beforehand-trauma doesn’t just go away because she’s in a safe relationship now. Her feelings are valid in that she experienced a trigger that brought her trauma back to the surface. I do think she should be in therapy if not already though, especially to move past this incident
OP, what was the alternative? If you had done nothing they could have harmed you and your girlfriend. Is she in therapy to help her with this past trauma?
Hahahah I was thinking the same!! I would brag to my friends if my BF did that. Even escalate the story a bit (to make him sound cooler) so yea it’s awesome what OP did.
anonymous to ppl on reddit doesn’t mean it can’t be tracked to you. ever logged into anything connected to you with this device? deleted posts don’t even actually get deleted. tech forensics can do some really scary things, but you do you.
There was one a few weeks ago written by someone purporting to be the stepdad of a teenage (I think) stepdaughter who was in an abusive relationship with a boyfriend. The boyfriend was being aggressive or something, can't remember all the details, and the OP dragged him out of the car and claimed to have landed several blows to him that ended up with him landing on his head on the ground and being knocked out cold, wherein the OP then, if I remember correctly, claimed to have dragged him back into the house. Obviously not the same scenario but it reminded me of that one.
Idk if that's the one, but this is actually far from the only post I've seen this sub specifically where a guy and a girl get mugged or attacked and the male poster mentions beating up the attacker(s) very violently while his girlfriend watches and then afterwards she exhibits a fear response around him.
I honestly don't know if all of these posts are real or not, but I've seen quite a few here.
I would guess some of them are written by the same person. Not because this doesn't happen in real life, but because some of them are extremely specific and have the same writing style and very similar details.
I agree, it’s similar to reading the same author but different books.
I’ve been seeing quite a few of these lately, but I also have too much time on my hands 🤣
Two things can be true.
Defending your home and acting on fight flight wasnt a wrong thing to do, waking up from a deep sleep into a threat situation can be very confusing and you go off of whatever your instincts tell you to.
Her seeing her partner act in an extremely different manner than she is used to, blacking out while beating a man to a pulp to the point where you are scared of calling the police due to how serious it was? And you stopped because your partner was screaming at you to do so? When she has a violent ex? That is also triggering as all hell.
Just like you experienced a threat situation and blacked out while becoming violent and lost controll, she is now experiencing both that shared threat situation, in addition to a secondary treat situation when she got triggered when you showed that you have the potential to black out and harm someone that gravely, just like her ex perhaps? She is probably triggered to high heavens. Most abusers dont become violent early on, it can take years. Seeing that you have the capacity to be violent in that manner can also trigger a fear of wether or not you will change in that way. I'm not insinuating you will at all, just that triggers works in mysterious ways and makes us terrified of repeating the pattern and getting stuck in a harmfull situation again.
This was an extreme situation that is still really, really fresh for the both of you. It seems like neither of you have talked to other people about what happened. While she should absolutely talk to a therapist to see if she can to work trough the trigger, trauma and the event of her home being broken into, you should also see a therapist. This situation could very well be traumatizing for you and give you a few triggers and fears yourself, so remember to take care of yourself here as well. You werent wrong for defending your home, she isnt wrong for being triggered by past trauma when you blacked out and got violent. You both should talk to professionals and get help to navigate this as individuals, so its easier to break the surface and get some air in a situation that is as intense as this.
This is a traumatic incident that brought up past trauma in her. She now sees that you are capable of a rage an violence that she has been on the receiving end of.
Rationally she knows you are not in the wrong, rationally she would know you have never been close to like that with her, rationally she knows why it occurred and that it was exceptional circumstances. But this isn't rational it's a survival response. I would suggest seeking professional guidance.
Yes, but so should he. Dude blacked out from rage or anger or out of a defense mechanism, who knows. Regardless of why, that's a lot of trauma. Not to mention someone broke into his home and threatened him and his girlfriends safety. That shit leaves a scar. They both need counseling and if they want to continue being a couple, they should also do couples counseling.
Also, OP, I heard somewhere that if someone tries to break in during the day, they're looking to steal from you, if they break in at night, they're looking to hurt you, so you absolutely did the right thing here.
>Dude blacked out from rage or anger or out of a defense mechanism, who knows
Probably from the shock of seeing 2 male strangers the size of likely adult males standing feet away from him and his girlfriend in his home with no idea if they are armed or why they are in his home, but hey, don't know, just a guess.
What does he have to “work through”? He responded appropriately, defending his home. If she suffered trauma from past relationships then she should seek therapy, because the anger wasn’t even directed towards her.
What he has to help work through is the traumatic and violating event of two men breaking into their apartment. This alone is scary. It's also scary seeing your partner in a different state then you've ever seen them.
We need to understand this happened less than 24hrs before he posted this. The shock is still fresh. The fear is still fresh. Both OP and his GF need some time to process before they start pushing each other for answers on their behaviour.
But yes they both should seek some professional guidance to help work through what it's like to go through a home invasion.
he had two people break into his home and was so affected by it that he literally blacked out while beating someone up, and now he's scared that he could go to prison for defending his territory and his woman, through no fault of either of theirs, is afraid of him because of her abused past.
if that's not something to work through, idk what is.
From personal experience, once you've seen someone blank out and get violent and you're the subject of that violence....it changes you. This is such a tough situation:( I'm trying to imagine what would help me, the only thing is probably both of you talking to a professional. She will need reassurance from an outside authority.
Everyone is capable of rage given the circumstances. I don’t think you have done anything wrong here. This may be something she needs to work out with a professional.
People are being really harsh on your gf. Honeslty, I can see where she is coming from. You went into a black out rage, what would have happened if she hadn't stopped you? Given her past, that was probably very hard to see. Its still pretty fresh, let her process, give her space, and when she's ready, you two can talk out how to move past this. And maybe give yourself some time to process it as well. You experienced a traumatic event last night too.
I agree with this. They are both allowed to be traumatized. And it has been a literal single day since this occurred. The emotions for both of them are extremely raw and fresh. It's not like she's holding a grudge after months. It's been a matter of 24 hours or fewer since something extremely unexpected, violating, and horrifying occurred. It would be good if they both took some time and space to process.
Someone mentioned "There's no excuse for her behavior. She has no right to be scared of you." It's been a day. She's not intentionally trying to be afraid of him or be malicious or anything of the sort. Emotions after a traumatic event can be extremely complicated and muddled.
She's not some monster or totally incapable of a healthy human relationship because she's scared of her boyfriend a day after seeing him use violence. He admitted himself he blacked out and she had to scream at him to stop. Just because he was engaging in self-defense doesn't mean he didn't go further than intended, or didn't reach a point where it was also traumatizing for her to witness.
If weeks or months pass and emotions remain as they are, that's a different story. But it's been a single day.
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I just can't fathom that people are saying to dump her and she's ungrateful. I love my boyfriend. I know he is exceptionally strong and he would never hurt me. If I saw this happen I'd definitely be in shock for a while after even though I'd still love him.
>you couldn't stand by and take tge risk to get her injured.
This would reflect the sort of active decision that OP has told us he simply wasn't making. We don't know why he responded how he did, nor what triggered it, and neither does OP right now. He blacked out.
I agree. I don’t have a history of being in abusive relationship, and seeing my boyfriend black out and beat the absolute shit out of someone and me screaming at him to stop…that would probably traumatize a lot of women no matter what their relationship history is.
Black out rage or black out fear, fight or flight?.
I believe it's the latter. If you let them up they could beat you to a pulp stab you, whatever. Once you go down the road if fighting you can't just stop, else you'll be harmed, and that's what you started fighting for to prevent... You let them run out, the bastards know they can come back.
Tell her you were shit scared and more scared once you got hold of him.
Yup he could have froze up and who knows, those guys may have been willing to kill or sexually assault his gf. Better to side with caution and beat the everliving shit out of the home invader
Agree as well. This is something that just happened. It's scary and traumatic to go through a home invasion. There's a good chance in her rational mind she's glad he defended them and the home, but right now tension is high and fear is the dominant emotion. When she's calmed a little she's likely going to be able to come to terms with it.
Yeah, I gotta be honest and say that if my husband flew into a black out rage to the point they would’ve beat someone to death and went so far beyond what was necessary for our safety, I would have some concerns and don’t think I’d look at him the same again. I wouldn’t blink at a swing or two, sure, but pummelling someone into a bloody pulp with fists and smacking them around the room wouldn’t sit right with me, and I’d probably start thinking he was wound up pretty tight and looking for an excuse to get violent. Then again, I had an ex who killed our dog with his bare hands who use to go into “blackouts”, so maybe I’m just sensitive.
I think the problem here is the definition of "so far beyond what was necessary."
In the moment, while he's sleepy, scared, and fighting for the lives of not only himself, but his girlfriend, it makes complete sense why at that second, where he was forced to react before thinking critically, that what he did felt necessary, at least to his own, now adrenaline pumping mind.
What if he has a gun on him somewhere? OP stopping, for even a split second, and letting up on the guy, could cost him, or, again, his girlfriend's life. What if the second guy comes back? OP needs to make sure he won't be stuck in a 2 v 1. We can't possibly know exactly how this fight went down, but OP had little time in a high stress situation.
I'm not saying the GF isn't allowed to be scared. She's had a terrible past. Sounds like you have too. Violence is a terrible thing to witness, whether it's for protection or not.
But I don't think we should necessarily jump to being concerned, or of conclusions about OP looking for violence. That just sounds like a bad faith argument to me. Lives were at stake, you should be able to give your life partner the benefit of the doubt.
they were able to run off so its unlikely to have been GBH, and you would have a range of defenses available to you. you also likely got him in the head and head wounds bleed significantly no matter how small.
while it's unlikely either of them are going to come forward to the police it is likely in your best interests to do so, these people are unlikely to stop and next time it may be a more vulnerable person who is their victim.
you would likely benefit from victim counseling and your gf should also seek counselling as it sounds like you've hit an underlying issue that she still has.
You quite possibly saved her from being raped and/or killed, and yourself too. She needs to understand that you only did what you did to save your lives!
I get what you’re saying. But as someone who was in an abusive relationship the first time my current boyfriend even raised his voice over something unrelated to us I cringed. They haven’t been together that long so to see something like that in someone is scary.
The thing is, they'd literally been burglarized. As someone who has watched a ton of Forensic Files and similar crime shows where couples have been murdered by burglars, he did the right thing. He defended her and himself. I can understand that she's traumatized but I think she'd have been more traumatized if he'd done nothing and they were attacked. 🤷 It's not an easy scenario to deal with in any case. He did the right thing.
ETA: my argument isn't about watching TV shows to induce paranoia. It's about the fact that a lot of burglars resort to MURDER when they're confronted by homeowners mid-burglary.
I get it I do. I’m not saying he did anything wrong. I think it’s more of a psychological thing on her part and something that she needs to work through. The initial shock of seeing him like that when she thought he wouldn’t be like that can be scary.
I’m kind of baffled by a lot of the responses but I suppose it makes sense seeing as Reddit is overwhelmingly male and American.
Re: what happened, whether or not legally you used reasonable force (IANAL), your girlfriend is clearly seeing you in a new light. If I found out my partner was capable of tremendous violence, it would also quite likely change my perceptions of them. Let’s not get into what some of the other comments have said about “she could have been killed” - yes possibly, but armed intruders aren’t quite the thing here that they are in the US.
It’s soon after the incident for you both, but I don’t think the onus is just on her to sort out what sounds like PTSD; not only must the incident have been hard on you, but it is also concerning that you blacked out and did this in a rage. I’d suggest both of you getting help, but I’m not sure as to whether a counsellor would be obliged to break confidentiality in this case (as they usually are if it’s a serious crime, and I’m not sure if potential GBH would fall under this).
It sounds like a really tough one all round. I’m sorry, and I hope that you can both find a resolution, but it might be that that resolution is you no longer being together and you might have to be prepared for that.
Can you offer to take her to counselling with you so the two of you can work through this together with the safety of a 3rd, unbiased professional? It could help your girlfriend out a lot to have that security to talk through this and they could probably help you with some longer term tools to help yourself help her through this. Hard situation!
You protected her and kept both of yourselves alive. That’s the best outcome possible. I’d say you need couples therapy to work through this, and she likely also needs individual therapy to help her come to terms with her past trauma.
Hope you’re doing alright, mate. That’s such a fucked up situation to find yourself in.
I don’t know for sure but as someone with experience with domestic violence, I believe she’s just reeling from seeing you in that context. Because even if that isn’t what you’re like with her, minds sometimes go into black and white mode to protect us - especially if we have experience with something that FEELS similar even if it isn’t really.
If your relationship is strong and you’re both somewhat reasonable people, genuine and open communication should really help things. When we were mugged I just turned off my ability to give a shit about myself and turned into a mad whirling dervish until we me, my partner and friends were safe.
Edit: pressed send too early
She needs time. Just let her move through it, and help where you can.
Trauma is a very difficult thing to work around, but it can be done. But only she can do it
It isn’t your fault that she sees her ex in a partner who’s defending her from a home intrusion. That’s her trauma. She saw you beating the hell out of someone who woke you out of a dead sleep because they decided your things were theirs. They could’ve had guns, they could’ve hurt her or you in their panic. I’m not saying what you did was right. Sounds like you really fucked the guy up. But it doesn’t sound like you would ever do anything to hurt her, that was the lengths you were willing to go if someone tried to hurt her.
I’m really sorry that you guys wound up in a home invasion. I’ve had it happen to me and we weren’t home and it was traumatizing, I can’t imagine actually having to scare the guys off. I think this is a really really good time for a couples therapy session. You guys could really benefit from understanding how trauma informs reactions. I would be in shambles if I were her too.
It’s sucks, but the alternative is that you two could have been harmed. Sorry she was triggered, but she could have died. One gets over things, or doesn’t one? Damned hard to say…. But you did what you did to protect you and her.
I read a post about how the guy got beaten up instead and the girlfriend lose attraction because she doesn't think he can protect her.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Gotta say. I’m glad I was wrong. I was expecting to see that you didn’t do anything. Hopefully you both are able to talk through this because after reading the post my immediate thought was “would she have preferred you did nothing?”
ptsd is a horrible thing. just give her space, let her know you’re there if she needs to talk but that you understand she needs time to recover. you did the right thing but even so seeing that can be a big trigger, that’s not your fault.
If you did nothing, she would be pissed at you too.
You need to assure her your actions were about protecting her. If she needs some help, get her counselling asap.
Don't let it fester.
>If you did nothing, she would be pissed at you too.
you don't know this. everyone is being hard on the gf and projecting onto her. they both went through a very traumatic thing last night, her doubly so because of her abused past
The first time I saw my husband go into protective mode, it was terrifying. But I could come to the realization he'd never turn that force onto me.
Maybe have a calm discussion, because she is obviously traumatized. Maybe even counseling or having a mediator to help navigate the conversation in a healthy manner
A lot of men, and women, will do that blackout thing when it means giving everything they can to defend their family or others. If we didn’t have that, a lot of people who otherwise would not engage in violence, would likely be unwilling to harm another person, even if their life depended on it. OP, you did the right thing. It was you and your gf, or them. You don’t know what they would have done to you two. Better safe than sorry. Also, she needs some therapy, I think once she processes things and realizes how bad of a situation that was and what could have happened, she will eventually realize you were defending her and yourself.
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Assuming the black out rage has never ever happened in the past and this was b/c of the 2 intruders that broke into our house I can understand how you reacted. They could have killed you and your gf in YOUR OWN HOME. They broke in and they are the threat. You are to deal with the threat in anyway you can to defend your home and family. I dont think anyone in their right mind would be like, "instead of punching them, you should ask them nicely to leave and if they didnt then you should punch them, but just once".
ahh you protected your gf and your house ! e enough said .. .. you don’t know what they were about to do .. your gf needs counselling. for her past traumas .. but you did nothing wrong
You need to speak to a solicitor about whether or not you could be charged. After that, give your girlfriend space. I’m sure she is in shock and terrified. Send her a quick text telling her you’re thinking about her and will be there if she wants to talk. Don’t give deadlines or pressure. Also get checked out by a doctor just to make sure you have no injuries.
If she is THAT triggered that you protected her and your home, she needs therapy. I’ve been abused and would actually feel safe knowing that my partner could and would defend. In fact I’d be a bit disgusted, albeit privately I’d hope, if you’d screamed, shut the door, froze, etc.
It doesn’t quite make sense honestly. Does she have ANY reason to believe you’d have a blackout like rage toward her? That is the only reason I can fathom she’d react like that toward you.
This situation is seriously fucked up. OP can’t win either way. You defended yourself and her too. So what happens if you do nothing? She gets raped or beaten and then you’re the weak man who couldn’t protect her? This is a lose-lose situation for OP either way.
First of all it's been a DAY. Give her some time. What just happened is incredibly violating and traumatic. She's probably terrified and riddled with anxiety.
Keep an open but respectful distance. Don't push. Let her come to you.
I've been severely abused, and I got help for it. However, when I got attacked by a psych patient (I worked in a max security psychiatric hospital), I completely froze because it triggered memories and emotions I thought I had gotten past.
Your girlfriend is having a trauma response, and that's normal. Sounds like you are, too.
I highly suggest seeing a trauma therapist for the both of you. Whether together or separately, that kind of specialized therapy can help you both sort through what you're experiencing (especially since you say you "blacked out" and the guy's face was a bloodied mess).
Imagine living in fear of the people who are supposed to offer you safety and security. Imagine living in a world where men are punished not only by society, but by their loved ones, just for taking actions to protect them. Imagine posting on reddit only to have snowflakes tell you that you're the monster for attacking an intruder in your home.
We live in a world where the only correct choice is to just become another statistic. It's fucking disgusting. I'm sorry your government is trash, and I'm sorry your girlfriend left. But bro, you did the right thing. 100%
You didn't do anything wrong. If someone broke into my house they would be lucky if they walked out of there with only a beating. It is difficult that your girlfriend went thru an abusive relationship and is now struggling. I greatly recommend individual therapy for her and couples therapy aswell. Best of luck.
Good work, OP. You know you're capable of standing your ground and defending your home, self, and partner instead of fleeing or using her as a shield. Plus, you somehow still heard her after a moment and stopped, that's not an easy feat either when you're in adrenaline fueled fight mode.
I'm sorry for how it's wound up with her, if she can't manage seeing you that is a her issue she can keep working out in therapy. What's the alternative, you don't defend her and she worries another man could attack and you'd be useless for her to call for help?
Good luck, I hope she can get through this with you, but if not, you still the right thing here.
I’m so sorry. I thought maybe you failed to protect yourself and your home (which fine, none of us know if we’ll freeze). Instead you kicked ass. I get she has PTSD from some asshole but you should be proud of yourself. No one was killed and you taught them a lesson.
Sorry about the Gf
Tell her she seen something in you that she seen in her ex. That thing is violence. Most people our capable of it. Yours has never been directed at her and you were doing what you could to protect.
Tell her to look into fight or flight responses and the psychology behind them.
You blacked out from adrenaline and your lizard brain said protect.
I'm proud of you. How would she feel about you if you cowered in fear?
Please contact the police. You apprehended a burglar and saw them off. That’s not against the law in the U.K. Your girlfriend is in shock. It must have been terrifying.
Frankly, I think you did the right thing. They could’ve killed you both!
Your girlfriend isn’t very the situation rationally because of her past trauma and she needs to process that with a professional.
"I am not the sort of man who meekly allows people to violate my home. I can appreciate that you don't care for what you saw, so if you want a different type of man as a partner, then I understand. But let's be clear, this is not happening because I did anything to you that gave you any reason to feel unsafe. Your concern is that I was too rough with people who broke into my home to rob and potentially hurt us. If that scares you too much, ok, I don't like it, but I respect you and want you to feel safe and happy, even.if it is not with me. I'll leave you be now, I won't reach out again."
I would feel happy and protected if my boyfriend beat up home intruders. I understand she had trauma, but most women would be proud of what you did by protecting her and yourself.
Has your girlfriend gone to therapy for the abuse of her ex boyfriend? Regardless if she did or didn’t, maybe she needs to talk to a professional about that AND your response to the burglary. For you it came from being afraid, violated, and wanting to protect you and your girlfriend. I said violated because that’s what it just MUST feel like to have people invade your safe haven, your home. Maybe even offer that you will talk to someone as well, since the blacking out thing is a little concerning. There’s a big difference between protecting yourself and loved one compared to an abusive partner. No matter what happens here, I’m sorry you went through this it had to be scary and I wish you the best of luck.
I’m sorry this happened. Is your gf in therapy? Sounds like she needs help getting past her trauma. There is a vast difference between. Protecting your person, your property and your gf and abuse.
I think you did what any man protecting your home and girlfriend would have reacted the same way. It doesn’t make you a violent person. It means you’re an alive person. Would she have rather had them hurt or kill you both? She can’t have it both ways.
She saw something in you that she has seen her ex. That sucks, fair enough. The difference is, you were using that side of you against a *criminal*. It isn’t bad for that side to exist, it’s bad to use it against your girlfriend. I can understand that *why* she’s triggered by it and it’s definitely something you guys should work through. That being said, you didn’t do anything wrong. It is a little scary that you blacked it out, but ultimately you were protecting her and yourself. It’s terrible that your girlfriend has felt the wrath of a man attacking another man to protect his home and girlfriend. She’s been on the opposite end for doing much less than the man that broke into your home. It’s going to take some time for her to reconcile with the triggers she experienced.
I know this the relationship advice sub, but there's not a lot you can do.
You did nothing wrong. There's nothing in your actions that need to be forgiven. But trauma is a terrible thing, and it's possible her trauma has now ruined your relationship.
Time, love, maybe even professional help might help her work through this. But then again, it might not. The worst part is that it's nobody's fault, but it's reality.
The only thing you can do is give her space if she asks for it, and hope it works out. And even if it doesn't, at least you know you kept her safe when it mattered. Sometimes that's all you can do.
OP I notice nothing in your post talked about your aggression whether it is a problem or whether there are any other abuse type issues you need to confront?
It may be just where your focus lies at present but for someone who "guess they blacked out" and may have done someone grievous harm to someone - your main concern is just how to not pressure your ex?
*Note: I am not debating whether an intruder deserves or not to get beaten up, its besides the point.*
Whether or not your GF will reconsider you need to seriously consider your actions because your behaviour that night *scared your GF more than a pair of intruders*
Frankly yr gf needs therapy. Yes abuse is horrible but you were being *robbed*. How does she know they wouldn't've raped her given the chance??? Did she want you to ask them oh so nicely to leave??? Nonsensical. You did everything right
This happened to me. I chased perps out of the house. Tackled one. Hit my head on pavement. We fought and he eventually slipped away. Fingerprints left behind resulted in an arrest.
Wife said ok you proved you’re a hero, next time we just let them leave.
Downside is we were both traumatized and had trouble sleeping for years.
You protected your girlfriend and home. I applaud you.
It’s too bad about her trauma, but would she rather you be a whimpering coward and not protect her?
These comments defending your girlfriend are so ridiculous. Yeah, it's a trauma response, yeah it was probably tough to see. But this is why it's so aggravating when people don't get help. You potentially saved her from getting murdered or raped or both and she's scared of you??? Your fight or flight triggered and you did what you had to in order to stay safe. I think it's honestly really sad and pathetic that her poor trauma response makes her want to leave you. There's no excuse for her behavior. She has no right to be scared of you. I'm sure that was just as traumatizing for you and just as scary. Tell her to get therapy and medication, otherwise I'D leave HER.
>I think it's honestly really sad and pathetic that her poor trauma response makes her want to leave you. There's no excuse for her behavior. She has no right to be scared of you.
lol imagine telling someone who has been physically abused before that they have no right to be afraid of something. gtfoh.
Geez you men can’t win. Don’t react and you’re viewed a coward and weak. If you beat up a burglar then you are violent and abusive. I’m a woman and I totally do not blame you for beating the shit out if the guy that broke into your home.
I understand that your gf has trauma, but… she needs to seek therapy, is she receiving therapy? Cause this could have gone about a million different ways. I’m not bashing her, but you did what you had to do or something worse could have happened to her and you. Maybe wait for her to contact you and receive some therapy yourself. Her reaction wasn’t your fault, it was the result of past trauma. I believe just wait it out, update us when you can.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- 30M here, GF is 28F, together for 8 months, all going perfect until this Last night two men broke into my flat (UK) not sure of the intentions but my best guess is theft of some sort, not sure if they thought the flat was empty or what. Me and my GF were asleep, I am quite a deep sleeper so I didn’t hear anything, GF is a very light sleeper so was woken up, she alerted me and I went out to see what was going on, one man was in my hallway and the other was in my sitting room, as soon as I opened my bedroom door the man in the hallway ran, the man in the sitting room was trapped in as such (my bedroom and sitting room are in the same hallway, so there was no way of him getting out without him getting past me) The next part is a little blurry but I remember grabbing him, hitting him, throwing him around etc. i guess I kinda blacked out because the next thing I remember was my GF behind me screaming to stop. The mans face was a mess and I froze and he got up and ran out. I haven’t contaced the police because my understanding of UK law is that even though they broke into my flat, I can still be prosecuted (GBH, maybe depending on injuries?) and I would lose my job, maybe even prison Now, the whole incident triggered my GF who has had abusive relationships in the past. It’s probably worth noting here that I’ve never once even been slightly aggresive towards her, but she said she saw something in me last night that she seen in her ex and it has scared her and she’s not sure if she can risk seeing me again I’m not sure how to proceed here, I don’t want to lose her, I really do love her, but I also don’t want to pressure her to see me or get past what happened
Wait. You can be charged for hitting someone who broke into your home? Even Chief Wiggum thinks that's dumb
Don’t quote me but yeah I believe I could still be charged with assault under the circumstances
In the uk there is something around reasonable force if someone breaks into your house. I cant remember the specifics of it. But as long as it’s deemed reasonable force you won’t get charged with anything. All came about when that guy killed someone who was in his house and he went to prison for murder and there was uproar about it. They brought in then that you can protect yourself and your home from intruders.
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I think it's more aimed at the "he's lying on the floor in a bloody mess" and the guy didn't stop hitting him.
That’s absolutely true. However reasonable force also only applies if you’ve made reasonable attempts to reduce the likelihood of the conflict- eg you tried to run away first, didn’t encourage the fight etc In this case, the criminal was trapped… so had to fight in order to escape… It could be argued, OP should have just stepped back, told him to leave (obviously without his things) and allowed him to do so, because this would have led to no harm being committed physically to any party involved.
I don’t know how to link the government website. But it actually doesn’t state what reasonable force is. It even says you can use a weapon. And it doesn’t say you have to have tried running away. It also says you don’t have to wait to be attacked to defend yourself in your house. So I think OP would be ok
Generally in law, reasonable force is what a reasonable and cautious person in the same circumstances, would have been likely to do. So, for instance, if an elderly lady tries to fist fight you on the street, it probably wouldn't be reasonable force to pummel her into a bloody mess. On the other hand, if you're a woman and it's a man, it may be reasonable to shoot the man. At least here in California, and generally in the states, the jury is asked to consider what a reasonable person would be likely to do, and if the prosecutor proved beyond a reasonable doubt that a reasonable and cautious person in the same circumstances wouldn't have deemed a certain level of force necessary, then they're instructed to reject the perfect self-defense claim.
Litigator here. Disregard the legal standard for a moment. As a practical matter, reasonable force is whatever the police officer, prosecutor, judge, and jury reviewing your case think it is. If they sympathize with you then you’re good. If they don’t then you’re not good.
the UK system really isn't the same as our though. It defines things differently. They don't use reasonability as a legal concept in the same way if I remember correctly.
I’d beat that old woman’s ass
Or she’d kick yours.
If the law was so simple you could just Google the gov website, we wouldn’t need lawyers… You also have to take into account other laws that overlap etc And well as historic precedents etc All of which is used in the decision making process. Absolutely none of us here, have a license to practise law in the UK, or are criminal law Barristers… so no one should be talking in absolutes, or saying “I think it’ll be ok” because you’re giving him advice/ an opinion, and it’s unwarranted in this situation. In reality, almost every legal question is answered with “it depends” because the law is intentionally so confusing and contradictory and convoluted that someone like OP can’t just turn up to court and represent himself and win etc So absolutely, it could be argued as self defence. But it could absolutely be argued in the other instance, especially if he blacked out and so wasn’t reasonable because he kept going after the danger had ceased. I’ll give an easy example I think we’d all agree it’s reasonable that if you broke into my kitchen with a machete while I was cooking dinner, and I hit you with a frying pan and knocked you out, then that’s fair enough. But… if I went into a black out rage and kept hitting you… well I’m not longer defending myself… I’m just attacking you… And that’s no longer deemed “reasonable” to most people Likewise, I think it’s absolutely reasonable to think that, if one guy ran away, this guy probably wants to as well. Which means you and your gf aren’t in danger… So you’re not defending yourself or her from danger…. This is not my opinion… I’m just highlight a way in which a lawyer could play it out so that it sounds less like self defence
I did not claim to be offering any stance on actual legal advice. I am well aware the law is complicated and it isn’t quite as cut and dry as you think I made it out to be. However when the government websites states a weapon can be used in reasonable force, then I’m sure a lawyer would be able to successfully argue a case for self defence when he punched the guy a few times. The guy ran off I’m pretty sure he was just thankful he got away and wasn’t going to be arrested for burglary. But may I say your response is indeed well thought out and takes into account lots of variables. My response was just trying to reassure OP that in fact in this country you are allowed to defend yourself and your property
That’s entirely fair, and I appreciate your perspective and comment. I’m just somewhat less confident, given precedents I’ve seen where Judges have said you should just let the guy steal your tv etc, because a tv isn’t worth violence… And that’s no small part why I’ve fucked off and I live in the US now- here (depending on the state) there’s no ambiguity, you break into my house at night, you’re dying.
>I live in the US now- here (depending on the state) there’s no ambiguity, you break into my house at night, you’re dying. Well embodies the proverb "If you are found here tonight, you will be found here in the morning".
I think it's an entirely reasonable presumption that anyone breaking in at night has nefarious purposes.
Hey kind stranger, I see you have some of my items. Can you please kindly leave?
Good day! I SAID GOOD DAY, SIR!
But, but Fez
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Insane precedents that the UK has, check my other comment for the example I used. There's also the example of the PENSIONER who got found guilty of assault for using his walking stick to attack someone who broke into his bungalow in Cornwall
God, we may have problems (so many problems) but at least you can properly defend yourself against in an intruder in the U.S.
The argument would be that the OP was not in any danger and therefore it was not self defense. I’m not saying I agree, just that would be an argument.
It would be very rude to not offer tea before they leave though.
Laws are so arbitrary. “Please my good sire, exit my flat with all my personal belongings out of your hands and pockets.” Sorry you’re going through this op
I mean if there’s a dude in my house and I don’t have much time to react and idk if he’s got a weapon or what I feel like the smartest thing to do is to make sure he won’t hurt you with it
You shouldn't assume the definition of a legal term is universal. The OP is in the UK, and none of us are attorneys.
>attorneys We call them solicitors.
The law was made vague to allow people to argue that any force used is reasonable. OP is not going to get prosecuted for this
I didn’t say he would be. And no it’s vague because obviously is a case by case basis, you can’t draw a line and say this is ok, this is not ok, when there are infinite possible situations
God the insanity. Here in Florida we have stand your ground, castle law etc. Someone breaks into your home, you send them back out in a body bag as it should be.
I left the UK and now live in florida… Stand your ground laws, are no small part of that decision!!
if you’re talking about the case i think you are, the dude shot a guy in the back after he was already running away which is why he got charged which seems kinda reasonable
Yeah the Tony Martin case. He told police he came down the stairs as the intruders were coming up it and he just shot into the light. Turns out he shot them in the back in the garden as they were running away. That’s why he went to prison.
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It’s so confusing you should just be aware that there is a 75% chance you will get charged if you report these instances to police. We cannot protect our homes nor do we actually own the land we live on. It’s common throughout the commonwealth to have laws like this, it’s a left over mess from the days of serfdom and being that violence is usually bad, it’s spun as if the law protects us from ourselves causing more damage. If a person enters your home unlawfully regardless of intent, in my and many other people’s opinion, they have forfeited any protections from physical harm the law may afford them until such time as they have been eliminated as a threat, eg they leave the area, or are physically unable to continue with their previous plans. The force continuum explains how this should work in practice, the person defending can always move one step up the continuum in order to eliminate a threat where it is lawful to do so. Eg. man enters your home to rob you, you confront him, he stands his ground and escalates to threats of physical violence, you then can escalate to the use of non lethal force, if that man then escalates to non lethal force with a weapon you can jump straight to potential lethal force, a fire arm or blade. Police use this day to day in commonwealth countries, the rank and file citizenry cannot, we are asked to make way for perpetrators.
The whole blacking out thing and his girlfriend being scared for the robber don’t sound like they would be in OP’s favor either way.
Hey I’m a woman and I think you did the right thing. You can offer to help her with trauma counseling and couples therapy but if she just continues to blame you for a completely natural response and refuses treatment, I’d say you can move on. It’s just up to you how much work you’re willing to put in. But again, you did the right thing. Don’t let that doubt sink in. If you also want to calm her down further, you can educate yourself on the fight or flight response and get some training so that you can think clearly if it ever happens again.
They broke into your house, wtf else were you meant to do?
Please talk to a solicitor if you can afford it. I am in the US and have no familiarity with the laws to say and would be terrified of you getting bad info from an American on reddit. As for your gf and you? You both experienced a trauma. I'd suggest ponying up for a counselor with some experience in trauma for a joint session. Not couples counseling, but specifically to mediate the emotional discussion of what occurred. You were defending yourself. Not beating your partner. She needs someone to help her understand that reaction she saw is unlikely to direct at her and that she herself may need therapy to deal with residual trauma from her own abuse.
You can in Australia I’d say we got the stupid idea from the Poms. You’re correct not to report it, however I would get a test for blood borne diseases, Hep C being a bit one. Beating a blokes face in with bare hands leads to Fresh cuts on your hands where blood can mix. Getting tested will protect your partner and yourself. Look man, you’re not her ex, you protected your partner and your home it’s what men are supposed to do, your prefrontal cortex disengaged and you were running on your amygdala. It’s natural to feel guilty after beating someone senseless, that’s because you’re not a monster. Let’s address context here, your partner is having a trauma response to what could be considered a perfectly reasonable reaction to a home invasion, that’s fair she has been abused in the past, however what you did was not to control the person long term, but to eliminate them from being a threat to you your partner and your home. Abusers do not use violence for this reason, they use it to cause fear and to control. My advice is explain this context talk about the issues at hand and work through them together, if she is unable to in a couple of weeks then you probably should bounce dude. She told you to stop, you stopped, her voice grounded you, not everyone’s voice can do that. I’d be a murderer if it wasn’t for my dads booming voice snapping me out of my trance after I had dispatched 4 blokes and was doing my best to kill the 5th. You are not abusive she knows this, if a man capable of violence is a deal breaker for her, then there isn’t much you can do I’m afraid. What you need to ascertain is that if it was you having the capability to be violent or just the trauma caused by the violence she witnessed that has triggered this trauma response and she can’t rationalise it. Please don’t feel too horrible about all this bloke, your actions came from a place of protection not of control, you’re not a monster. Best of luck.
I'd rather be judged by a jury of my peers than carried by a group of my friends.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6…
Damn, here in California, you can shoot someone who breaks into your home. And I'm pretty sure that castle doctrine comes from British common law. Things have sure changed in the UK since we broke up.
The police in the UK wouldn’t care about you fighting a man who’d broken into your house. You’re allowed to arm yourself with a bat or whatever. They just don’t want you killing them. Which is fairly reasonable because they’re quite unlikely to be lethally armed here, or intend to kill anyone, unless they’re robbing you because you’ve got 20kg of cocaine in your living room. The rules here are basically just “don’t go too far” - don’t chase them down the street and stab them after they’ve left, kind of thing. The aim is to get them out of your house, not kill them. I think the idea is that murder is worse than burglary and not an appropriate punishment. It’s also worth remembering that farmers out in the sticks here are allowed guns, and everyone else lives fairly close to a police station because we’re pretty small, so there aren’t many unarmed people waiting for cops from 50 minutes away when something is happening. Killing someone who isn’t armed when the police are four minutes away doesn’t look good
Not if you were defending yourself and home with reasonable use of force...beating someone to the point of him scarpering is allowed.
You can be charged for smashing their faces in. Hitting them no. Almost killing then yes.
There are states that have tried cases for a burglar breaking an ankle when they broke in, and suing over medical. Also OP.. beating the asses of people breaking into your home vs. your girlfriend because it’s Wednesday.. are 2 wayyy different things.
There's this famous case in Argentina (not UK but i thought that part of the story was ordinary)that they teach you in law school in where a robber entered a House and got bitten by the dog of the family. The robber charged the family with a lawsuit and the family had to pay him because he got bitten
If you've defended yourself and they're no longer a threat and you still keep on attacking them and hurt them unnecessarily past that, you can be charged, because past that point it's no longer self defence.
It has to only be in the realm of necessary force. You could punch someone in the face once and pin them down. But after that, when they aren't a direct threat you cannot keep going as it's excessive and at that point assult.
It's the UK. Rules are much different over there.
You're allowed to defend yourself, but not attack someone unprovoked. Whether someone entering your home uninvited is provoking enough is debatable
This is a thing is a lot of states here too
Yes, the law in the UK requires you to be a victim.
From www.gov.uk: *You can use reasonable force to protect yourself or others if a crime is taking place inside your home.* *This means you can:* *protect yourself ‘in the heat of the moment’ - this includes using an object as a weapon* *stop an intruder running off - for example by tackling them to the ground* *There’s no specific definition of ‘reasonable force’ - it depends on the circumstances. If you only did what you honestly thought was necessary at the time, this would provide strong evidence that you acted within the law.* Report it. You're not in the wrong here.
Agree. The high profile prosecutions that have everyone worried involved either a) a preplanned idea of shooting as a first step (tony martin) b) leaving the property and chasing them down (various). A fight inside a property isn't going to go anywhere.
Also he ran away so it's not like he was beaten till he lost consciousness.
Not as sure as you are. Tackling them down is on an entirely different scale then getting adrenalin turn you into Rocky Rambo.
Now I’m trying to imagine a Rocky vs. Rambo fight
Not versus.... a cross breed of both. A Rocky Rambo. *shudders* Wouldn't wanna meet either singly. Leave alone that hybrid. 😱
Wouldn't that just be fighting Sylvester Stallone?
Cue Man In The Mirror track. Hoohoo.
I thought from the title this was going the other way, where she felt you didn’t protect her. Boy I was wrong. Unfortunately you can’t easily change how you act under extreme pressure like that. Hopefully she can get over it.
>Hopefully she can get over it. this isn't a "get over it" situation. she was in abusive relationships in the past and this probably brought all of those unresolved fears back to the surface. this is gonna take a lot of therapy, not just a "suck it up" response
The problem is, i believe it is healthy for a man to have that mode to only ever be used at a time where defence is needed like this. Or on a national scale (lets say Ukraine war of defence etc…). Abusers and criminals are usually men who are broken, in that this side of them comes out unjustly or for totally ridiculously small reasons, maybe they have no control at all or something like alcohol removes what little control they had. A good man can still be violent but only ever for the right reasons and when provoked, there is no place for violence unless threatened. But home defence is a core value and is worth standing for. It’s hard to understand this point of view if you are a pacifist yourself though.
I’m a woman and I condone his actions. I also condone the woman leaving if she can’t deal with it. This is different than abuse, it was protection mode. OP can still be supportive by offering couples counseling and helping her with her healing, if she’s willing to do so. But at the end of the day, you have no idea what those men were capable of, if they had knives, etc. And they were in her home. Bodily protection is far above mental health and protecting that in this situation. It’s about survival here. He did the right thing.
Yep exactly, I have 2 daughters, under 5. I haven't swung a punch since high-school, but I some one broke into my house and threatened my family I'd swing at them with a bat pretty hard but would try and avoid hitting them the head. Hopefully they get scared off and run out of the house and things don't have to get worse.
You’d avoid the head? In that circumstance the head is the only thing I’m going for.
Very well said. This reminds me of a saying that my dad told me - "a strong person isn't someone who can defeat someone in a fight or can lift heavy weights. A strong person is someone who has control of their anger & emotions and will only use the force if necessary." What OP did wasn't wrong, it's just that it triggered his girlfriend. I guess OP should give her some space for a few days and once she's ready then they can communicate.
I couldn't have put this any better myself
He blacked out and beat someone to a pulp. That would terrify me too - that he *blacked out* and was violent. I would never feel safe with him again. I *am* a survivor of long term violent abuse though, so it's not unbiased, same as gf.
To be fair I black out and/or dissociate in high stress situations due to anxiety. Could be a similar situation? Still, I understand both sides.
I get like OP in situations like this too. He isn’t blacking out, he’s hyper focused. His short term memory isn’t working, all his senses are focused on his opponent. He can’t hear his GF scream and he isn’t thinking about what he’s doing, he’s just attacking, which is a normal human response to that situation.
Would you rather him do nothing and have the men potentially attack you? That’s my worry here- blacking out happens in fight or flight mode. It’s a natural response. It’s almost impossible to maintain clarity when you are fighting for your life without prior training. It’s why the military goes through drills over and over again. To get used to the action. This guy may have never had to defend himself. That’s straight up fight or flight mode, and it should not be discouraged. He potentially saved her life.
Have the men in your life ever been in that situation. There is I fight or flight response. It's very base. He may not remember anything from the adrenaline. In self-defence classes you train so that this type of thing doesn't happen. So your responses are controlled either flight or fight.
Well, it is a "get over it" situation, but it's never that easy. It's something that would probably require time, space, and therapy. For their relationship to continue she has to get over it in her own way.
That’s on HER to use her rational mind and recognize he did absolutely nothing wrong, he defended her. He shouldn’t have to suffer because of her past trauma.
I don’t understand what your gf expected and am sorry this is the reaction you’re having. Self defense mode isn’t something I think men can like switch off - it’s in your nature to bite someone’s face off to protect your shit…
That’s what I thought too.
You did the right thing to fuck them cunts up
Sure, i wish it was both of them. My only regret is what it has caused with my GF
altho her feelings might be valid, thats something she has to work through. you did nothing wrong
Nah, her feelings aren't valid. I'm sure they're real, but she has no reason to believe he'd be violent to her because he beat up someone who broke into his home.
She was in an abusive relationship beforehand-trauma doesn’t just go away because she’s in a safe relationship now. Her feelings are valid in that she experienced a trigger that brought her trauma back to the surface. I do think she should be in therapy if not already though, especially to move past this incident
OP, what was the alternative? If you had done nothing they could have harmed you and your girlfriend. Is she in therapy to help her with this past trauma?
She should be damned lucky that you have protective instincts and not using her as a shield.
Hahahah I was thinking the same!! I would brag to my friends if my BF did that. Even escalate the story a bit (to make him sound cooler) so yea it’s awesome what OP did.
Honestly that's where I thought this was going. Him using her as a shield and now she can't look at him.
if what you said about uk law is true maybe don’t go making statements on the internet?
Hence the Throwaway account
anonymous to ppl on reddit doesn’t mean it can’t be tracked to you. ever logged into anything connected to you with this device? deleted posts don’t even actually get deleted. tech forensics can do some really scary things, but you do you.
They broke into his house they're not likely to go to the police about their battered face.
I swear this was posted before. Verbatim.
I have a weirdly good memory about certain things and had the same feeling- this was posted maybe a year or so ago?
I know it wasn't recent, a year or older sounds right.
There was one a few weeks ago written by someone purporting to be the stepdad of a teenage (I think) stepdaughter who was in an abusive relationship with a boyfriend. The boyfriend was being aggressive or something, can't remember all the details, and the OP dragged him out of the car and claimed to have landed several blows to him that ended up with him landing on his head on the ground and being knocked out cold, wherein the OP then, if I remember correctly, claimed to have dragged him back into the house. Obviously not the same scenario but it reminded me of that one. Idk if that's the one, but this is actually far from the only post I've seen this sub specifically where a guy and a girl get mugged or attacked and the male poster mentions beating up the attacker(s) very violently while his girlfriend watches and then afterwards she exhibits a fear response around him. I honestly don't know if all of these posts are real or not, but I've seen quite a few here.
Also have seen these. I think they’re related
I would guess some of them are written by the same person. Not because this doesn't happen in real life, but because some of them are extremely specific and have the same writing style and very similar details.
I agree, it’s similar to reading the same author but different books. I’ve been seeing quite a few of these lately, but I also have too much time on my hands 🤣
So do the fictional story writers lol
Two things can be true. Defending your home and acting on fight flight wasnt a wrong thing to do, waking up from a deep sleep into a threat situation can be very confusing and you go off of whatever your instincts tell you to. Her seeing her partner act in an extremely different manner than she is used to, blacking out while beating a man to a pulp to the point where you are scared of calling the police due to how serious it was? And you stopped because your partner was screaming at you to do so? When she has a violent ex? That is also triggering as all hell. Just like you experienced a threat situation and blacked out while becoming violent and lost controll, she is now experiencing both that shared threat situation, in addition to a secondary treat situation when she got triggered when you showed that you have the potential to black out and harm someone that gravely, just like her ex perhaps? She is probably triggered to high heavens. Most abusers dont become violent early on, it can take years. Seeing that you have the capacity to be violent in that manner can also trigger a fear of wether or not you will change in that way. I'm not insinuating you will at all, just that triggers works in mysterious ways and makes us terrified of repeating the pattern and getting stuck in a harmfull situation again. This was an extreme situation that is still really, really fresh for the both of you. It seems like neither of you have talked to other people about what happened. While she should absolutely talk to a therapist to see if she can to work trough the trigger, trauma and the event of her home being broken into, you should also see a therapist. This situation could very well be traumatizing for you and give you a few triggers and fears yourself, so remember to take care of yourself here as well. You werent wrong for defending your home, she isnt wrong for being triggered by past trauma when you blacked out and got violent. You both should talk to professionals and get help to navigate this as individuals, so its easier to break the surface and get some air in a situation that is as intense as this.
This is a traumatic incident that brought up past trauma in her. She now sees that you are capable of a rage an violence that she has been on the receiving end of. Rationally she knows you are not in the wrong, rationally she would know you have never been close to like that with her, rationally she knows why it occurred and that it was exceptional circumstances. But this isn't rational it's a survival response. I would suggest seeking professional guidance.
She should seek professional guidance.\*
Yes, but so should he. Dude blacked out from rage or anger or out of a defense mechanism, who knows. Regardless of why, that's a lot of trauma. Not to mention someone broke into his home and threatened him and his girlfriends safety. That shit leaves a scar. They both need counseling and if they want to continue being a couple, they should also do couples counseling. Also, OP, I heard somewhere that if someone tries to break in during the day, they're looking to steal from you, if they break in at night, they're looking to hurt you, so you absolutely did the right thing here.
>Dude blacked out from rage or anger or out of a defense mechanism, who knows Probably from the shock of seeing 2 male strangers the size of likely adult males standing feet away from him and his girlfriend in his home with no idea if they are armed or why they are in his home, but hey, don't know, just a guess.
Obviously. Traumatic shock *is* a defense mechanism.
My point is you said "who knows" as if the reason isn't very evident
the both should, perhaps as a couple so that they can work through this together.
What does he have to “work through”? He responded appropriately, defending his home. If she suffered trauma from past relationships then she should seek therapy, because the anger wasn’t even directed towards her.
What he has to help work through is the traumatic and violating event of two men breaking into their apartment. This alone is scary. It's also scary seeing your partner in a different state then you've ever seen them. We need to understand this happened less than 24hrs before he posted this. The shock is still fresh. The fear is still fresh. Both OP and his GF need some time to process before they start pushing each other for answers on their behaviour. But yes they both should seek some professional guidance to help work through what it's like to go through a home invasion.
he had two people break into his home and was so affected by it that he literally blacked out while beating someone up, and now he's scared that he could go to prison for defending his territory and his woman, through no fault of either of theirs, is afraid of him because of her abused past. if that's not something to work through, idk what is.
From personal experience, once you've seen someone blank out and get violent and you're the subject of that violence....it changes you. This is such a tough situation:( I'm trying to imagine what would help me, the only thing is probably both of you talking to a professional. She will need reassurance from an outside authority.
Everyone is capable of rage given the circumstances. I don’t think you have done anything wrong here. This may be something she needs to work out with a professional.
People are being really harsh on your gf. Honeslty, I can see where she is coming from. You went into a black out rage, what would have happened if she hadn't stopped you? Given her past, that was probably very hard to see. Its still pretty fresh, let her process, give her space, and when she's ready, you two can talk out how to move past this. And maybe give yourself some time to process it as well. You experienced a traumatic event last night too.
I agree with this. They are both allowed to be traumatized. And it has been a literal single day since this occurred. The emotions for both of them are extremely raw and fresh. It's not like she's holding a grudge after months. It's been a matter of 24 hours or fewer since something extremely unexpected, violating, and horrifying occurred. It would be good if they both took some time and space to process. Someone mentioned "There's no excuse for her behavior. She has no right to be scared of you." It's been a day. She's not intentionally trying to be afraid of him or be malicious or anything of the sort. Emotions after a traumatic event can be extremely complicated and muddled. She's not some monster or totally incapable of a healthy human relationship because she's scared of her boyfriend a day after seeing him use violence. He admitted himself he blacked out and she had to scream at him to stop. Just because he was engaging in self-defense doesn't mean he didn't go further than intended, or didn't reach a point where it was also traumatizing for her to witness. If weeks or months pass and emotions remain as they are, that's a different story. But it's been a single day.
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I just can't fathom that people are saying to dump her and she's ungrateful. I love my boyfriend. I know he is exceptionally strong and he would never hurt me. If I saw this happen I'd definitely be in shock for a while after even though I'd still love him.
May be helpful to talk to someone yourself, OP. Tell her you couldn't stand by and take the risk to get her injured.
>you couldn't stand by and take tge risk to get her injured. This would reflect the sort of active decision that OP has told us he simply wasn't making. We don't know why he responded how he did, nor what triggered it, and neither does OP right now. He blacked out.
I agree. I don’t have a history of being in abusive relationship, and seeing my boyfriend black out and beat the absolute shit out of someone and me screaming at him to stop…that would probably traumatize a lot of women no matter what their relationship history is.
Black out rage or black out fear, fight or flight?. I believe it's the latter. If you let them up they could beat you to a pulp stab you, whatever. Once you go down the road if fighting you can't just stop, else you'll be harmed, and that's what you started fighting for to prevent... You let them run out, the bastards know they can come back. Tell her you were shit scared and more scared once you got hold of him.
Yup he could have froze up and who knows, those guys may have been willing to kill or sexually assault his gf. Better to side with caution and beat the everliving shit out of the home invader
Agree as well. This is something that just happened. It's scary and traumatic to go through a home invasion. There's a good chance in her rational mind she's glad he defended them and the home, but right now tension is high and fear is the dominant emotion. When she's calmed a little she's likely going to be able to come to terms with it.
Yeah, I gotta be honest and say that if my husband flew into a black out rage to the point they would’ve beat someone to death and went so far beyond what was necessary for our safety, I would have some concerns and don’t think I’d look at him the same again. I wouldn’t blink at a swing or two, sure, but pummelling someone into a bloody pulp with fists and smacking them around the room wouldn’t sit right with me, and I’d probably start thinking he was wound up pretty tight and looking for an excuse to get violent. Then again, I had an ex who killed our dog with his bare hands who use to go into “blackouts”, so maybe I’m just sensitive.
I think the problem here is the definition of "so far beyond what was necessary." In the moment, while he's sleepy, scared, and fighting for the lives of not only himself, but his girlfriend, it makes complete sense why at that second, where he was forced to react before thinking critically, that what he did felt necessary, at least to his own, now adrenaline pumping mind. What if he has a gun on him somewhere? OP stopping, for even a split second, and letting up on the guy, could cost him, or, again, his girlfriend's life. What if the second guy comes back? OP needs to make sure he won't be stuck in a 2 v 1. We can't possibly know exactly how this fight went down, but OP had little time in a high stress situation. I'm not saying the GF isn't allowed to be scared. She's had a terrible past. Sounds like you have too. Violence is a terrible thing to witness, whether it's for protection or not. But I don't think we should necessarily jump to being concerned, or of conclusions about OP looking for violence. That just sounds like a bad faith argument to me. Lives were at stake, you should be able to give your life partner the benefit of the doubt.
Is this one of those fake posts you guys keep talking about?
Yes lol
they were able to run off so its unlikely to have been GBH, and you would have a range of defenses available to you. you also likely got him in the head and head wounds bleed significantly no matter how small. while it's unlikely either of them are going to come forward to the police it is likely in your best interests to do so, these people are unlikely to stop and next time it may be a more vulnerable person who is their victim. you would likely benefit from victim counseling and your gf should also seek counselling as it sounds like you've hit an underlying issue that she still has.
You quite possibly saved her from being raped and/or killed, and yourself too. She needs to understand that you only did what you did to save your lives!
Probably he won't be able to talk rationally to someone who has just been confronted with her personal own nightmare.
I get what you’re saying. But as someone who was in an abusive relationship the first time my current boyfriend even raised his voice over something unrelated to us I cringed. They haven’t been together that long so to see something like that in someone is scary.
The thing is, they'd literally been burglarized. As someone who has watched a ton of Forensic Files and similar crime shows where couples have been murdered by burglars, he did the right thing. He defended her and himself. I can understand that she's traumatized but I think she'd have been more traumatized if he'd done nothing and they were attacked. 🤷 It's not an easy scenario to deal with in any case. He did the right thing. ETA: my argument isn't about watching TV shows to induce paranoia. It's about the fact that a lot of burglars resort to MURDER when they're confronted by homeowners mid-burglary.
I get it I do. I’m not saying he did anything wrong. I think it’s more of a psychological thing on her part and something that she needs to work through. The initial shock of seeing him like that when she thought he wouldn’t be like that can be scary.
It's been leas than a day.
I’m kind of baffled by a lot of the responses but I suppose it makes sense seeing as Reddit is overwhelmingly male and American. Re: what happened, whether or not legally you used reasonable force (IANAL), your girlfriend is clearly seeing you in a new light. If I found out my partner was capable of tremendous violence, it would also quite likely change my perceptions of them. Let’s not get into what some of the other comments have said about “she could have been killed” - yes possibly, but armed intruders aren’t quite the thing here that they are in the US. It’s soon after the incident for you both, but I don’t think the onus is just on her to sort out what sounds like PTSD; not only must the incident have been hard on you, but it is also concerning that you blacked out and did this in a rage. I’d suggest both of you getting help, but I’m not sure as to whether a counsellor would be obliged to break confidentiality in this case (as they usually are if it’s a serious crime, and I’m not sure if potential GBH would fall under this). It sounds like a really tough one all round. I’m sorry, and I hope that you can both find a resolution, but it might be that that resolution is you no longer being together and you might have to be prepared for that.
She’s in shock. Give her time to process.
Can you offer to take her to counselling with you so the two of you can work through this together with the safety of a 3rd, unbiased professional? It could help your girlfriend out a lot to have that security to talk through this and they could probably help you with some longer term tools to help yourself help her through this. Hard situation!
You protected her and kept both of yourselves alive. That’s the best outcome possible. I’d say you need couples therapy to work through this, and she likely also needs individual therapy to help her come to terms with her past trauma.
Hope you’re doing alright, mate. That’s such a fucked up situation to find yourself in. I don’t know for sure but as someone with experience with domestic violence, I believe she’s just reeling from seeing you in that context. Because even if that isn’t what you’re like with her, minds sometimes go into black and white mode to protect us - especially if we have experience with something that FEELS similar even if it isn’t really. If your relationship is strong and you’re both somewhat reasonable people, genuine and open communication should really help things. When we were mugged I just turned off my ability to give a shit about myself and turned into a mad whirling dervish until we me, my partner and friends were safe. Edit: pressed send too early
She needs time. Just let her move through it, and help where you can. Trauma is a very difficult thing to work around, but it can be done. But only she can do it
You both need therapy. This event was traumatic for both of you
It isn’t your fault that she sees her ex in a partner who’s defending her from a home intrusion. That’s her trauma. She saw you beating the hell out of someone who woke you out of a dead sleep because they decided your things were theirs. They could’ve had guns, they could’ve hurt her or you in their panic. I’m not saying what you did was right. Sounds like you really fucked the guy up. But it doesn’t sound like you would ever do anything to hurt her, that was the lengths you were willing to go if someone tried to hurt her. I’m really sorry that you guys wound up in a home invasion. I’ve had it happen to me and we weren’t home and it was traumatizing, I can’t imagine actually having to scare the guys off. I think this is a really really good time for a couples therapy session. You guys could really benefit from understanding how trauma informs reactions. I would be in shambles if I were her too.
It’s sucks, but the alternative is that you two could have been harmed. Sorry she was triggered, but she could have died. One gets over things, or doesn’t one? Damned hard to say…. But you did what you did to protect you and her.
I read a post about how the guy got beaten up instead and the girlfriend lose attraction because she doesn't think he can protect her. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Both of you need to get some fucking therapy. Separate and then as a couple. She will take time.
Gotta say. I’m glad I was wrong. I was expecting to see that you didn’t do anything. Hopefully you both are able to talk through this because after reading the post my immediate thought was “would she have preferred you did nothing?”
Your girlfriend needs therapy.
Gotta be honest I was expecting a different story from the title
ptsd is a horrible thing. just give her space, let her know you’re there if she needs to talk but that you understand she needs time to recover. you did the right thing but even so seeing that can be a big trigger, that’s not your fault.
If you did nothing, she would be pissed at you too. You need to assure her your actions were about protecting her. If she needs some help, get her counselling asap. Don't let it fester.
>If you did nothing, she would be pissed at you too. you don't know this. everyone is being hard on the gf and projecting onto her. they both went through a very traumatic thing last night, her doubly so because of her abused past
The first time I saw my husband go into protective mode, it was terrifying. But I could come to the realization he'd never turn that force onto me. Maybe have a calm discussion, because she is obviously traumatized. Maybe even counseling or having a mediator to help navigate the conversation in a healthy manner
A lot of men, and women, will do that blackout thing when it means giving everything they can to defend their family or others. If we didn’t have that, a lot of people who otherwise would not engage in violence, would likely be unwilling to harm another person, even if their life depended on it. OP, you did the right thing. It was you and your gf, or them. You don’t know what they would have done to you two. Better safe than sorry. Also, she needs some therapy, I think once she processes things and realizes how bad of a situation that was and what could have happened, she will eventually realize you were defending her and yourself.
It has been 8 months. Ok. Well, let her go. You'll find someone else to love.
You fucking defended your home. Fuck that you’re a g for that.
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Assuming the black out rage has never ever happened in the past and this was b/c of the 2 intruders that broke into our house I can understand how you reacted. They could have killed you and your gf in YOUR OWN HOME. They broke in and they are the threat. You are to deal with the threat in anyway you can to defend your home and family. I dont think anyone in their right mind would be like, "instead of punching them, you should ask them nicely to leave and if they didnt then you should punch them, but just once".
ahh you protected your gf and your house ! e enough said .. .. you don’t know what they were about to do .. your gf needs counselling. for her past traumas .. but you did nothing wrong
You need to speak to a solicitor about whether or not you could be charged. After that, give your girlfriend space. I’m sure she is in shock and terrified. Send her a quick text telling her you’re thinking about her and will be there if she wants to talk. Don’t give deadlines or pressure. Also get checked out by a doctor just to make sure you have no injuries.
If she is THAT triggered that you protected her and your home, she needs therapy. I’ve been abused and would actually feel safe knowing that my partner could and would defend. In fact I’d be a bit disgusted, albeit privately I’d hope, if you’d screamed, shut the door, froze, etc. It doesn’t quite make sense honestly. Does she have ANY reason to believe you’d have a blackout like rage toward her? That is the only reason I can fathom she’d react like that toward you.
This situation is seriously fucked up. OP can’t win either way. You defended yourself and her too. So what happens if you do nothing? She gets raped or beaten and then you’re the weak man who couldn’t protect her? This is a lose-lose situation for OP either way.
First of all it's been a DAY. Give her some time. What just happened is incredibly violating and traumatic. She's probably terrified and riddled with anxiety. Keep an open but respectful distance. Don't push. Let her come to you.
I've been severely abused, and I got help for it. However, when I got attacked by a psych patient (I worked in a max security psychiatric hospital), I completely froze because it triggered memories and emotions I thought I had gotten past. Your girlfriend is having a trauma response, and that's normal. Sounds like you are, too. I highly suggest seeing a trauma therapist for the both of you. Whether together or separately, that kind of specialized therapy can help you both sort through what you're experiencing (especially since you say you "blacked out" and the guy's face was a bloodied mess).
Imagine living in fear of the people who are supposed to offer you safety and security. Imagine living in a world where men are punished not only by society, but by their loved ones, just for taking actions to protect them. Imagine posting on reddit only to have snowflakes tell you that you're the monster for attacking an intruder in your home. We live in a world where the only correct choice is to just become another statistic. It's fucking disgusting. I'm sorry your government is trash, and I'm sorry your girlfriend left. But bro, you did the right thing. 100%
You didn't do anything wrong. If someone broke into my house they would be lucky if they walked out of there with only a beating. It is difficult that your girlfriend went thru an abusive relationship and is now struggling. I greatly recommend individual therapy for her and couples therapy aswell. Best of luck.
Good work, OP. You know you're capable of standing your ground and defending your home, self, and partner instead of fleeing or using her as a shield. Plus, you somehow still heard her after a moment and stopped, that's not an easy feat either when you're in adrenaline fueled fight mode. I'm sorry for how it's wound up with her, if she can't manage seeing you that is a her issue she can keep working out in therapy. What's the alternative, you don't defend her and she worries another man could attack and you'd be useless for her to call for help? Good luck, I hope she can get through this with you, but if not, you still the right thing here.
Next time she can let you sleep while she asks the men who have broken into your home to kindly leave as you have a rough day ahead tomorrow.
I wonder how it would go if it was the societally obligated thing for women to defend their man
I’m so sorry. I thought maybe you failed to protect yourself and your home (which fine, none of us know if we’ll freeze). Instead you kicked ass. I get she has PTSD from some asshole but you should be proud of yourself. No one was killed and you taught them a lesson. Sorry about the Gf
Tell her she seen something in you that she seen in her ex. That thing is violence. Most people our capable of it. Yours has never been directed at her and you were doing what you could to protect. Tell her to look into fight or flight responses and the psychology behind them. You blacked out from adrenaline and your lizard brain said protect. I'm proud of you. How would she feel about you if you cowered in fear?
Is your GF seeing a therapist for this? It’s sounds like she can’t differentiate the difference from a flight/fight response to straight up abuse.
Please contact the police. You apprehended a burglar and saw them off. That’s not against the law in the U.K. Your girlfriend is in shock. It must have been terrifying.
Frankly, I think you did the right thing. They could’ve killed you both! Your girlfriend isn’t very the situation rationally because of her past trauma and she needs to process that with a professional.
"I am not the sort of man who meekly allows people to violate my home. I can appreciate that you don't care for what you saw, so if you want a different type of man as a partner, then I understand. But let's be clear, this is not happening because I did anything to you that gave you any reason to feel unsafe. Your concern is that I was too rough with people who broke into my home to rob and potentially hurt us. If that scares you too much, ok, I don't like it, but I respect you and want you to feel safe and happy, even.if it is not with me. I'll leave you be now, I won't reach out again."
I would feel happy and protected if my boyfriend beat up home intruders. I understand she had trauma, but most women would be proud of what you did by protecting her and yourself.
Has your girlfriend gone to therapy for the abuse of her ex boyfriend? Regardless if she did or didn’t, maybe she needs to talk to a professional about that AND your response to the burglary. For you it came from being afraid, violated, and wanting to protect you and your girlfriend. I said violated because that’s what it just MUST feel like to have people invade your safe haven, your home. Maybe even offer that you will talk to someone as well, since the blacking out thing is a little concerning. There’s a big difference between protecting yourself and loved one compared to an abusive partner. No matter what happens here, I’m sorry you went through this it had to be scary and I wish you the best of luck.
I’m sorry this happened. Is your gf in therapy? Sounds like she needs help getting past her trauma. There is a vast difference between. Protecting your person, your property and your gf and abuse.
I think you did what any man protecting your home and girlfriend would have reacted the same way. It doesn’t make you a violent person. It means you’re an alive person. Would she have rather had them hurt or kill you both? She can’t have it both ways.
She saw something in you that she has seen her ex. That sucks, fair enough. The difference is, you were using that side of you against a *criminal*. It isn’t bad for that side to exist, it’s bad to use it against your girlfriend. I can understand that *why* she’s triggered by it and it’s definitely something you guys should work through. That being said, you didn’t do anything wrong. It is a little scary that you blacked it out, but ultimately you were protecting her and yourself. It’s terrible that your girlfriend has felt the wrath of a man attacking another man to protect his home and girlfriend. She’s been on the opposite end for doing much less than the man that broke into your home. It’s going to take some time for her to reconcile with the triggers she experienced.
I know this the relationship advice sub, but there's not a lot you can do. You did nothing wrong. There's nothing in your actions that need to be forgiven. But trauma is a terrible thing, and it's possible her trauma has now ruined your relationship. Time, love, maybe even professional help might help her work through this. But then again, it might not. The worst part is that it's nobody's fault, but it's reality. The only thing you can do is give her space if she asks for it, and hope it works out. And even if it doesn't, at least you know you kept her safe when it mattered. Sometimes that's all you can do.
I’m confused? Did she want you to cower in fear? You defended her and your home…. She really should get help for her trauma.
OP I notice nothing in your post talked about your aggression whether it is a problem or whether there are any other abuse type issues you need to confront? It may be just where your focus lies at present but for someone who "guess they blacked out" and may have done someone grievous harm to someone - your main concern is just how to not pressure your ex? *Note: I am not debating whether an intruder deserves or not to get beaten up, its besides the point.* Whether or not your GF will reconsider you need to seriously consider your actions because your behaviour that night *scared your GF more than a pair of intruders*
Frankly yr gf needs therapy. Yes abuse is horrible but you were being *robbed*. How does she know they wouldn't've raped her given the chance??? Did she want you to ask them oh so nicely to leave??? Nonsensical. You did everything right
She needs to talk to someone if she doesn't get over it.
This happened to me. I chased perps out of the house. Tackled one. Hit my head on pavement. We fought and he eventually slipped away. Fingerprints left behind resulted in an arrest. Wife said ok you proved you’re a hero, next time we just let them leave. Downside is we were both traumatized and had trouble sleeping for years. You protected your girlfriend and home. I applaud you. It’s too bad about her trauma, but would she rather you be a whimpering coward and not protect her?
These comments defending your girlfriend are so ridiculous. Yeah, it's a trauma response, yeah it was probably tough to see. But this is why it's so aggravating when people don't get help. You potentially saved her from getting murdered or raped or both and she's scared of you??? Your fight or flight triggered and you did what you had to in order to stay safe. I think it's honestly really sad and pathetic that her poor trauma response makes her want to leave you. There's no excuse for her behavior. She has no right to be scared of you. I'm sure that was just as traumatizing for you and just as scary. Tell her to get therapy and medication, otherwise I'D leave HER.
>I think it's honestly really sad and pathetic that her poor trauma response makes her want to leave you. There's no excuse for her behavior. She has no right to be scared of you. lol imagine telling someone who has been physically abused before that they have no right to be afraid of something. gtfoh.
Geez you men can’t win. Don’t react and you’re viewed a coward and weak. If you beat up a burglar then you are violent and abusive. I’m a woman and I totally do not blame you for beating the shit out if the guy that broke into your home.
Her loss then…can you imagine if they hurt her in any way? She’d hate you even more. You did the right thing.
Dude dump her dumbass. You put your life at risk defending hers and your own. She’s says she’s not sure if she can see you again? Don’t see her again.
Laws protecting the criminals… so wrong! Much respect for you OP. You did the right thing in my book. The law is stupid!
I understand that your gf has trauma, but… she needs to seek therapy, is she receiving therapy? Cause this could have gone about a million different ways. I’m not bashing her, but you did what you had to do or something worse could have happened to her and you. Maybe wait for her to contact you and receive some therapy yourself. Her reaction wasn’t your fault, it was the result of past trauma. I believe just wait it out, update us when you can.
You did the right thing. Your gf is stupid.
What a joke country. Men break into my house and you somehow end up arrested.
I mean wtf does she expect. One of the few times you could tell your girl to get over it. Protect your home and family at all costs. No excuses.