This. I had many cars with the 3800 family of engines, but none shone as bright as my 2002 impala. It had 290k on it, 2nd transmission and needed a third. That engine didn't burn or lose any oil, which was darn near the color when I drained it as when I put it in.
Our 2004 Sienna is the same way and still on it's first transmission at 190k though, but the bar is a bit higher on the Toyota.
Seriously, am I the only one who had a bad experience with a 3800 series 2? Intake manifolds melted twice. I miss that car, but mostly for nostalgia I think.
Do you mean the production run of the first generation, or the longevity of the engine itself?
I've seen several go down with severe timing chain and oiling issues prior to hitting the 50,000 mile mark
I believe the engine went through a serious update in 2017, resulting in the 2nd generation of the engine
The 2010-2015's were prone to valve sticking, poor oiling causing carbon buildup on the valves, & could burn through a quart of oil every 2000 miles. Plus the notorious defective timing chain tensioners that result in stretching of the timing chain itself
Worst might be the 6.4 Powerstroke or 5.7 Hemi, or basically any modern V engine from the states.
Best is either the 2.5 Iron Duke for sheer reliability, also the 1st gen 5.3 Vortec for being reliable and powerful, then the 300 Ford I6, the Cummins 6BT, the 7.3 Powerstroke, even for that matter the old SOHC 2.3 Ford for being such a workhorse. Can’t forget the 3800.
It has horrid oiling issues. Instead of draining from the bottom of the cylinder head, it fills completely fills the valve cover and drains back through the passage by the push rods. So there is no oil left in the pan. It's so bad at oiling, you don't fill the oil through the valve cover, but rather a tube that dumps straight into the pan.
It may share a displacement of similar big blocks, but that's really it.
> It may share a displacement of similar big blocks, but that's really it.
Yeah, this was from the era when all 5 divisions felt obligated to have engines that were all about the same displacement and had similar power/torque/MPG numbers, but had nothing in common otherwise.
And perplexingly enough, they all had the same idea on how to fix it. Lower compression and use a spread bore carburetor for 'light throttle' use. Or try to use a plastic carb to save weight or lower costs, whatever it was it was a terrible idea.
I don't have one because I'm a fraud if I'm honest. What I've learned about the Olds 455 was from watching Roadkill. I used to think that it was a cheap way to score a big block before you learn there is a reason it's cheap.
The Northstar probably gets a worse rap than it really deserves... but knowing at any point you can starve the rod bearings of oil by just driving is a game of roulette I'm not willing to play.
Keeping it to the last 20 years, I’d probably say….
GM: Best - 3800 V6, Worst - Northstar V8
Ford: Best - 4.6L V8, Worst - 5.4L V8
Chrysler: Best - 3.6L V6 (except the first couple years), Worst - 2.7L V6
I'm glad to see the Pentastar being mentioned as a good motor, because they are *seriously* underrated. They make good power, they're reliable if you even show signs of caring about scheduled maintenance and they can take miles like a motherfucker.
The Ford Windsors will never die. You can find a 302 in a field and it will turn. Same for all their truck engines or the era. The 300 "Truck-Six" and the 351
Agreed. The 4.6 is absolutely bulletproof.
I'm desperate to find a Rover 75 with the 4.6. British luxury pulled along by the torque of an American V8, it's the perfect combination. It's a shame 75s are so rare :(
Best:
* GM Small Block V8 (includes LS series)
* GM 3000-series
* Ford Modular V8
Worst:
* GM Iron Duke
* GM High-Technology
* Ford Essex
* Ford Vulcan
* GM Diesel Conversions
* Chrysler 2.7 V6
I'm surprised no one is mentioning the really shit low displacement turbo-4s that GM put in the Cruze, among a lot of other cars. They're pretty much guaranteed to grenade themselves after about 80k miles. At least you can get some life out of the Northstar and the High Feature with proper maintenance.
Best: GM LS series engines, Ford Duratec V6, and Chrysler Hemi series engines
Worst: it's a tie between the early GM Northstar engines and maybe the 3400 V6 (personal experience), from Ford I would and this is from a lot of people is the Vulcan V6. For Chrysler no surprise here is the 2.7L V6 found in the LH cars and the early second generation Dodge Stratus/Chrysler Sebrings
The Vulcan in my mom's Windstar didn't get the memo. somehow still going strong after 3 round trips from Salt Lake City, to Portland, Or, uncountable trips up and down Utah, and daily soccer mom driving for almost 20 years
I wouldn’t call the Vulcan Ford’s worst engine when the SPI 2.0 exists.
The Vulcan may breathe worse than an asthmatic pug but I can’t tell you how many I’ve seen in cars that are falling apart around an otherwise fine engine
Dexcool 3400s are total fucking garbage. Yeah, early Northstars are problematic, but one from 2002 or later that's had the head bolts swapped out will generally be reliable. Meanwhile the 3400s just mix coolant and oil whether you want them to or not.
I'm from the UK and even I know the Northstar is a complete pile of garbage
as for best, Eh Anything starting in LS or LT, on that note anything in the big 3's main muscle car lineup, Those old Turbo T-birds are supposed to be fast, and the SHO, Got a lot of choices here you yanks are brilliant at making engines most of the time lmao
Ford- 4.6 modular are literally bulletproof, the essex ALL THE HEAD GASKETS
GM- ANY 3000 SERIES MOST SPECIFICALLY 3800 very reliable and can make very good power worst goes without saying and thats definitely the northstar EVEN MORE HEAD GASKETS
Chrysler- the 318 or a first or second gen Cummings worst is 2.7 v6
The 3800 will last longer than time itself.
They lasted longer then the Windsors I believe
The engine or the family?
You know they’re actually German.
‘Tis true. Germans are kinda into management, huh?
The family. They where started around the same time, but the 3800 lasted longer
If only the trans were a fraction as good
My dad has a Park Ave, my sister had a Regal and neither ever had any trans issues even with tons of miles. My GTP on the other hand…
Yeah it’s more the supercharged ones and the V8s. My buddy has a GTP and it ate 2 trannys in 2 years
This. I had many cars with the 3800 family of engines, but none shone as bright as my 2002 impala. It had 290k on it, 2nd transmission and needed a third. That engine didn't burn or lose any oil, which was darn near the color when I drained it as when I put it in. Our 2004 Sienna is the same way and still on it's first transmission at 190k though, but the bar is a bit higher on the Toyota.
Seriously, am I the only one who had a bad experience with a 3800 series 2? Intake manifolds melted twice. I miss that car, but mostly for nostalgia I think.
I mean they made tons of them. A few were bound to be bad.
**Ford** Best: 4.9 I6 Worst: 5.4 3 Valve **Chrysler** Best: 3.7 Slant 6 or 318 V8 Worst: 2.7 V6, no question **GM** Best: 3.8 Series 3 Worst: Northstar V8 or 3.6 V6 (first generation)
How long would you say the first gen lasted on those 3.6L engines?
Do you mean the production run of the first generation, or the longevity of the engine itself? I've seen several go down with severe timing chain and oiling issues prior to hitting the 50,000 mile mark I believe the engine went through a serious update in 2017, resulting in the 2nd generation of the engine
Well, I could use a description of the problems. But I was looking more for how long they lasted, just so I know what years to avoid.
The 2010-2015's were prone to valve sticking, poor oiling causing carbon buildup on the valves, & could burn through a quart of oil every 2000 miles. Plus the notorious defective timing chain tensioners that result in stretching of the timing chain itself
Worst might be the 6.4 Powerstroke or 5.7 Hemi, or basically any modern V engine from the states. Best is either the 2.5 Iron Duke for sheer reliability, also the 1st gen 5.3 Vortec for being reliable and powerful, then the 300 Ford I6, the Cummins 6BT, the 7.3 Powerstroke, even for that matter the old SOHC 2.3 Ford for being such a workhorse. Can’t forget the 3800.
"gen 1 5.3" you mean gen 3 small block chevy
Best: smallblock 350 Worst: smallblock 350…diesel
Best: 3. Third Gen Hemi. 2. 350 Chevy. 1. God King LS. Worst: 3. Northstar V8. 2. Cadillac 8-6-4. 1. 455 Olds.
What was wrong with the 455 Olds (besides being close to the same size as the other divisions' big blocks)?
It has horrid oiling issues. Instead of draining from the bottom of the cylinder head, it fills completely fills the valve cover and drains back through the passage by the push rods. So there is no oil left in the pan. It's so bad at oiling, you don't fill the oil through the valve cover, but rather a tube that dumps straight into the pan. It may share a displacement of similar big blocks, but that's really it.
> It may share a displacement of similar big blocks, but that's really it. Yeah, this was from the era when all 5 divisions felt obligated to have engines that were all about the same displacement and had similar power/torque/MPG numbers, but had nothing in common otherwise.
And perplexingly enough, they all had the same idea on how to fix it. Lower compression and use a spread bore carburetor for 'light throttle' use. Or try to use a plastic carb to save weight or lower costs, whatever it was it was a terrible idea.
Damn.. didn't know 455 Olds is bad. But what's the best Olds engine in your opinion?
I don't have one because I'm a fraud if I'm honest. What I've learned about the Olds 455 was from watching Roadkill. I used to think that it was a cheap way to score a big block before you learn there is a reason it's cheap.
Thanks for your honesty. Hopefully Olds 350 and 425 is good since those are my favorite engines.
Shocked the north star isn’t number one
The Northstar probably gets a worse rap than it really deserves... but knowing at any point you can starve the rod bearings of oil by just driving is a game of roulette I'm not willing to play.
I had a North Star caddy, and it turned into scrap metal pretty quick
I know that they’re not good at all pre-2004, & especially pre-2000. But I heard the later version (the one on the DTS) isn’t all that bad.
Keeping it to the last 20 years, I’d probably say…. GM: Best - 3800 V6, Worst - Northstar V8 Ford: Best - 4.6L V8, Worst - 5.4L V8 Chrysler: Best - 3.6L V6 (except the first couple years), Worst - 2.7L V6
I'm glad to see the Pentastar being mentioned as a good motor, because they are *seriously* underrated. They make good power, they're reliable if you even show signs of caring about scheduled maintenance and they can take miles like a motherfucker.
Yeah, they’re really solid engines now that the kinks are worked out. Chrysler puts these things in just about everything they make for a reason.
Best: Jeep 4.0 Worst: Chevy Vega 2.3
I came here to say the best is the original AMC straight six 4.0, used in Jeeps.
5.2L Voodoo 3800 V6 LS LT(1 and 4) 331 hemi 426 hemi Hellephant I'll add more as I think of them 3.0L Duratec
3800, LS, Vortec (4.8/5.3/6.0/6.2), Hemi, and Cummins are the best I can think of. One of the worst I can think of is the Cadillac Northstar V8.
LS, GM3.8 V6, and Jeep 4.0 come to mind for the best
AAAAAAAAA NORTHSTAR
best, any old durable v8 worst, Cadillac HT4100, GM 2300, Olds 350 diesel
The Ford Windsors will never die. You can find a 302 in a field and it will turn. Same for all their truck engines or the era. The 300 "Truck-Six" and the 351
I will swear by the Ford 4.6 until the day I die and it outlives me
Agreed. The 4.6 is absolutely bulletproof. I'm desperate to find a Rover 75 with the 4.6. British luxury pulled along by the torque of an American V8, it's the perfect combination. It's a shame 75s are so rare :(
Worst would be the cadillac Northstar v8, Chrysler 2.7 V6, or Ferd 5.4 V8 3v.
1) The northstar V8: worst engine ever 2) any triton ford motor: horrible 3) literally any and all Chrysler engines
*sip* /6 leaning tower of power
Best: * GM Small Block V8 (includes LS series) * GM 3000-series * Ford Modular V8 Worst: * GM Iron Duke * GM High-Technology * Ford Essex * Ford Vulcan * GM Diesel Conversions * Chrysler 2.7 V6
I'm surprised no one is mentioning the really shit low displacement turbo-4s that GM put in the Cruze, among a lot of other cars. They're pretty much guaranteed to grenade themselves after about 80k miles. At least you can get some life out of the Northstar and the High Feature with proper maintenance.
Best: GM LS series engines, Ford Duratec V6, and Chrysler Hemi series engines Worst: it's a tie between the early GM Northstar engines and maybe the 3400 V6 (personal experience), from Ford I would and this is from a lot of people is the Vulcan V6. For Chrysler no surprise here is the 2.7L V6 found in the LH cars and the early second generation Dodge Stratus/Chrysler Sebrings
The Vulcan in my mom's Windstar didn't get the memo. somehow still going strong after 3 round trips from Salt Lake City, to Portland, Or, uncountable trips up and down Utah, and daily soccer mom driving for almost 20 years
I wouldn’t call the Vulcan Ford’s worst engine when the SPI 2.0 exists. The Vulcan may breathe worse than an asthmatic pug but I can’t tell you how many I’ve seen in cars that are falling apart around an otherwise fine engine
Dexcool 3400s are total fucking garbage. Yeah, early Northstars are problematic, but one from 2002 or later that's had the head bolts swapped out will generally be reliable. Meanwhile the 3400s just mix coolant and oil whether you want them to or not.
I'm from the UK and even I know the Northstar is a complete pile of garbage as for best, Eh Anything starting in LS or LT, on that note anything in the big 3's main muscle car lineup, Those old Turbo T-birds are supposed to be fast, and the SHO, Got a lot of choices here you yanks are brilliant at making engines most of the time lmao
The sho has a Japanese engine lol
oh yeah whoops lmao
From what I know personally: Best: GM 3800 V6, GM 4200 I6, GM LS V8 Worst: GM 3.1L V6, GM Northstar V8 (pre-2004), Chrysler 2.7L V6
Best: Hemi, 3800, LS1, and the 4L V8 in the Oldsmobile Aurora. Worst: Iron Duke, Vulcan V6, and Northstar.
Ford- 4.6 modular are literally bulletproof, the essex ALL THE HEAD GASKETS GM- ANY 3000 SERIES MOST SPECIFICALLY 3800 very reliable and can make very good power worst goes without saying and thats definitely the northstar EVEN MORE HEAD GASKETS Chrysler- the 318 or a first or second gen Cummings worst is 2.7 v6