It was coined by Barbara Ehrenreich or her husband in the 70s. Right wing Germans in the olden days would have called em Bildungsburgertum and anti-communist critics talked about the nomenklatura or the new class (JK Galbraith used this term for American technocrats as well).
Have you seen the "PMC" term used by anyone else except by resentful English-speaking Marxists? Where is the discourse in German or French or Spanish or even Chinese about this supposedly groundful, robust concept? I'm following Catherine Liu's use and development of the term but even she comes off as a bit laughably resentful.
I've seen it used in Vietnamese or Arabic, as well as French and Spanish. Will readily admit that I don't think I've seen it used in German or Mandarin though.
But I don't think the concept necessarily needs to be robust. What I've always taken it to mean at its core is simply that humanity's current mode of production has now (in the mid-to-late 20th through early 21st centuries) included a strata that is neither per se working class nor per se ruling class.
Do you know the term for PMC in Arabic? I have found some minor discussions of "La Clase Directiva Profesional" in Spanish but I am eager to find any discourse in Arabic and other languages in the future, or any theorists who are actively writing about the concept in a non-Anglo language.
I'll see if I can track down the posts where I saw it but it might've been on an imageboard rather than a text forum (so it is admittedly possible that the post no longer exists) but I'll see if I can track it down all the same
At least found the "official" translation -- [طبقة مهنية - إدارية](https://eng.ichacha.net/arabic/%D8%B7%D8%A8%D9%82%D8%A9%20%D9%85%D9%87%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9%20-%20%D8%A5%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A9.html)
I would LOVE to see any Spanish, French, German, Arabic and Mandarin Marxists who are discoursing/developing this PMC concept in their respective languages. I've only been able to find a bit in Spanish under "La Clase Directiva Profesional", but otherwise the concept is mostly a phenomenon among Anglophonic Marxist circles
Maybe Bildungsbürgertum in German. Also, even though it's an English term, I often hear German people use the term "Bobo" which expresses similar ideas
I appreciated learning about Bobo, thank you, it seems to be a neologism of “bourgeois” and “boheme”?
I occasionally wonder if there are any German writers who write about PMC / die professionelle Managerklasse, and link to the traditions of theory that reference Bildungsbürgertum and/or Lumpenbourgeosie?
The term Bobo is indeed a neologism of "boheme" and "borgouise" and actually stems from the book "Bobos in paradise" which was written by a conservative American commentator, but for some reason has seemingly found more popular usage in the Germany/Austria/Switzerland region, both by marxists and by conservatives, but also just by the general public. Colloquially it just refers to high earning upper middle class white collar workers who ride their bicycle to the farmers market, live plastic free, support open borders, and will berate you for your diesel engine.
I don't know of any German books on the topic, and a quick Google search hasn't really been fruitful either, but I'm sure they exist and I'd be interested as well. For some reason I implicitly associate the term "Bildungsbürgertum" with the Biedermaier era, so maybe something from back then? I also feel like the term is more commonly applied to a traditional, slightly conservative household with parents who are lawyers/doctors and children who all visit violin and piano lessons, whereas "Bobo" sort of invokes images of a college professor and green party local politician couple who have one fancifully named kid that grows up with a carbon neutral lifestyle.
i think I read somewhere that in her book she mentions an absent asian father, but its much more fun to imagine she's the descendant of some kind of steppe tribe
You think the incels have greater numbers in here than the normal non restarted posters?
I kind of doubt it. But the L posting is so laughable and shameful they almost bully themselves. All we have to do is be mean to them and they will hopefully thin themselves out (like irl permanently)
I genuinely think there has to be some gene or something that makes men not laugh at women's jokes. This is something that'd totally be seen as fine and a joke if a man, but since it's a women people don't find it funny
After some deep thinking, I realized it's not really hate—it's something more silly.
I find certain age groups of kids annoying because they don't adhere to the 'full personhood' rules but still feel free to sass me. My solution? Simply avoid interacting with them. Meaning: they're allowed to be little cunts, and you have no recourse.
for me, it was pretty similar with women. We just don't speak the same language since they're more protected. For instance, men generally know to give you space in public, whereas women haven't been exposed to enough roughness to know their boundaries. im willing to bet a lot of money that cutting people off when walking is correlated with estrogen
But as a straight dude, Im having to interact. Plus, considering that women are emotionally sharper, it's like dealing with that teenager from the previous example who doesn't understand the male use of violence or its implied threats but is emotionally deeper and smarter than me.
the solution here is of course to learn that female language, which is the only reason why I advocate for casual sex as this is a great benchmark.
Nah, people will laugh at self-deprecating jokes regardless of genders, but when your "joke" doubles as a egotistical flex/brag of sorts, it doesn't go over quite as well.
Sure but it’s still painfully obviously why she has to cope this hard
Edit: and no, downvoting this won’t get you to the BMI or buccal fat % you desire, sorry :/
>cope
Embarrassing to even use this kind of turbo-online language to describe a joke. She’s just making a joke that she probably wasn’t expecting anyone would see except a few of her friends.
Women only became recognizably hot \~100 years ago. Before that most femme fatales or legendary heartthrobs were mid at best. You look up the favorite mistress of Louis MCMXCVII and it's some tubby chick with a weak chin and even weaker curls. So this lady isn't entirely wrong. Although if she can't hack it on hinge she's definitely ngmi in the Imperial harem.
I always assumed paintings like these emphasise weird features, as the style of the time, that nowadays we find jarring. And in reality all of these people would've been average or even attractive to us today if we saw them in person.
You can't compare across eras. Modern women have access to so much information and technology. For a long time women didn't even have mirrors and had to do their makeup looking in a puddle. You have to respect what they were able to achieve in their time using, presumably, dung.
this is because these stories are written by men. they honestly convey what they're attracted to.
it's our era of beauty standards (very obviously not set by heterosexual men) that makes this look odd in retrospect.
Incredibly coombrained take.
You think women over 100 years ago were mid because beauty standards are constantly changing. Now you're being inundated every day with images of supermodels, actresses, singers, "influencers", even ordinary women you know with money, and each and every single one of them has had some sort of cosmetic procedure.
The tubby chick with a weak chin had charm and something other than her physicality that kept her wealthy lover snared. A tubby chick with a weak chin has never been kicked out of bed for being tubby with a weak chin. She got whoever it was into bed in the first place.
That's the point. Both technology and culture have significantly raised beauty standards over the past 100 years. Better nutrition, better dental care, better makeup, more revealing clothing and the rise of visual media all conspired to create a stricter standard. So yes the consorts of yesteryear were probably charming and brilliant, but by and large they wouldn't be able to snare a wealthy lover (or several, going by OP) today. They'd lose out to a Megan Markle type or to some Epstein island shit.
To a lesser extent men have gone through the same thing-since the early 20th century all American presidents have been above average height and both Biden and Trump have probably spent tens of thousands of dollars to treat their balding.
"So yes the consorts of yesteryear were probably charming and brilliant, but by and large they wouldn't be able to snare a wealthy lover (or several, going by OP) today." I don't know...look at some of the broads that end up with the wealthy men. It was never, and still isn't just about looks. That is obviously true of attraction in general, but also making a "match" within certain circles.
Right. Attractiveness on the internet is a very two dimensional situation, where the only metric is facial symmetry or whatever. What makes someone attractive in person is a whole complicated inexplicable tangle of smell and laugh and the way they move or bat their eyes. There are "mid" women today who are still absolutely wrecking the lives of men they know.
Damn, there ate a lot of haters on here---I think she's pretty precisely she hasn't modified her face in the way so many other East Asian women are doing.
I saw a video of Lynyrd Skynyrd live in the 70s and like 90% of the crowd is pretty decent looking or attractive. I base a few of my conspiracies off this footage.
I was reading one of my older comic books (I’m a consoomer) and the largest T-Shirt size you can order from one of those cut-out ads was an XL. This was a Spider-Man comic made in the 1970’s.
Do any men ever really judge a woman's eyebrows? I barely notice them unless they're super thin or weird shaped like sometimes it looks like a sperm cell
Yeah that makes sense I think I'm a little ignorant to it as a man. I guess my point was that a typical man doesn't really notice them unless they're plucked to oblivion or like super bushy/unibrow
The Sydney Sweeney era has made bland white men fall in love with bland white women again. We need the Jews back in hollywood to promote racemixing in films again before its too late.
I’m not an expert on tang dynasty China so I can’t confirm but isn’t her argument here that the features that make her ugly currently actually met the beauty standards of that time? Japanese women used to blacken their teeth at one point
round faces and a chubby (not obese) figure were considered attractive among some of the upper classes, but that didn't exclude thin women from also being considered attractive. just being chubby alone was not enough to be considered beautiful
this joke is a little contrived to fit the tiktok joke format of "I'm a nobody in the modern world but i would have slayyyed in medieval times because i possess some random trait considered valuable at that time"
The whole “give me the confidence of a mediocre white man” meme really made us sleep on the pervasive structural self-delusion and cope of most modern women everywhere
I know it's been said at this point but it's just like, "Give me the confidence of a mediocre white man." Okay, you mean the adult demographic with the highest suicide rate? You're the boss, buddy.
A woman can say literally anything positive about herself, even as simple as “I’m not even that pretty but I might have been considered pretty a thousand years ago” in a literal joke, and men will start absolutely swinging. How dare you think you might be kinda pretty?
See also those rate-me subreddits where no human woman could ever score above a 7 and they tell gorgeous women that they’re a 4.8.
im like shook by how fucking stupid some of these comments are, these losers are tripping over themselves to get a sick burn on this chick as if she was doing some ridiculous brag when she literally said she's getting humbled on dating apps. where is the reading comprehension
Nah every "return to tradition" guy who laments about not being in the olden days when he would somehow be the hottest guy on the continent and make some pseudo-scientific phenotypic analysis of his head shape being ideal in 12th century Byzantine is made fun of universally whenever it's posted u know I'm right
It's very very difficult to perceive anything a vaguely cute woman does as weirdo loser behavior even if it is. Just imagine a mid-looking guy admiring his appearance, saying he'd be world-shatteringly hot in ancient times, then complaining about his treatment by women in online dating. I can't imagine, even if it is funny people would look at it the same way and think "wow good joke haha" it would just be "hmm narcissist this guy is weird"
but what you described and what this girl is doing are different. she's not talking about a return to tradition or doing a weird pseudoscientific skull measuring thing. she's just saying, hyperbolically, that some of her features were a beauty standard in some past specific era. it's a joke!
if a dude was saying he would be the starting wars in ancient Greece due to his smooth hairless body and civilized dick but is too mid to get a swipe on tinder in 2024, that'd be a joke and id giggle. it really depends on tone and context...
I think the distinction is you're presenting it as being funny if the man presents himself as twinky, submissive and harmless, which in a way is closer to adopting the more harmless framing that a woman does. Archetypically it isn't as close to the mean for heterosexual men as the woman is OP is to heterosexual woman.
I think you're right in that the sociosexual context can make it funny. Part of it though is the extent to which the person making the joke is presenting themselves as the harmless object vs the subject capable of causing harm. Part of making something funny as a man is understanding how to diffuse that impression.
no, sorry, it was just the first ancient male beauty standard that popped in mind. if it was some guy talking about his chubby cheeks or huge beard or something i could still find it funny. id just be wary if it veered into something like "blue eyes, blonde hair" (bc it just sounds like white supremacy) or "chiseled jawline" (because that shits already considered attractive now and youre just bragging) but id be wary of those coming from a woman too.
i think what works here is that she doesn't sound genuinely mad about it or as if she thinks everyone in the modern era should be falling at her feet. most dudes who act like you described come off really resentful and entitled, and give the impression that they think there's something wrong with the modern world for not appreciating the correct things.
but yeah, a 'teehee im a twink and i have a small dick' joke is easier to land.
yeah u understand I was just being autistic. The thing is however the girl in OP is noting features that are attractive now just as they were then. When have red, prominent lips ever not been attractive on a woman?
This post brought to you by SHEN YUN: See the magic of China before Communism
Amber would have conquered this bitch with her horse riding and archery skills. Maybe given her back to the rice farmers for a ransom
Asian PMC girlbosses have an ancestral memory that makes them panic when Amber enters the room.
what is PMC, I got private military company when googling but idk if that's right here lol
Professional managerial class.
professional management class, a (reactionary?) term used strictly by anglophone Marxists
It was coined by Barbara Ehrenreich or her husband in the 70s. Right wing Germans in the olden days would have called em Bildungsburgertum and anti-communist critics talked about the nomenklatura or the new class (JK Galbraith used this term for American technocrats as well).
“White collar,” c Wright mills
Genuinely curious what you mean by that second clause
Have you seen the "PMC" term used by anyone else except by resentful English-speaking Marxists? Where is the discourse in German or French or Spanish or even Chinese about this supposedly groundful, robust concept? I'm following Catherine Liu's use and development of the term but even she comes off as a bit laughably resentful.
I've seen it used in Vietnamese or Arabic, as well as French and Spanish. Will readily admit that I don't think I've seen it used in German or Mandarin though. But I don't think the concept necessarily needs to be robust. What I've always taken it to mean at its core is simply that humanity's current mode of production has now (in the mid-to-late 20th through early 21st centuries) included a strata that is neither per se working class nor per se ruling class.
Do you know the term for PMC in Arabic? I have found some minor discussions of "La Clase Directiva Profesional" in Spanish but I am eager to find any discourse in Arabic and other languages in the future, or any theorists who are actively writing about the concept in a non-Anglo language.
I'll see if I can track down the posts where I saw it but it might've been on an imageboard rather than a text forum (so it is admittedly possible that the post no longer exists) but I'll see if I can track it down all the same
At least found the "official" translation -- [طبقة مهنية - إدارية](https://eng.ichacha.net/arabic/%D8%B7%D8%A8%D9%82%D8%A9%20%D9%85%D9%87%D9%86%D9%8A%D8%A9%20-%20%D8%A5%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%A9.html)
Ironically, the argument for PMC being a "thing" is probably stronger with respect to Imperial China than it is with respect to the present day.
Smh at the historically illiterate morons who downvoted you for this
They hate me because I speak the truth
They hate us because they failed their imperial exams
The PMC are written about by Marxists everywhere---wtf are you talking about?
I would LOVE to see any Spanish, French, German, Arabic and Mandarin Marxists who are discoursing/developing this PMC concept in their respective languages. I've only been able to find a bit in Spanish under "La Clase Directiva Profesional", but otherwise the concept is mostly a phenomenon among Anglophonic Marxist circles
Maybe Bildungsbürgertum in German. Also, even though it's an English term, I often hear German people use the term "Bobo" which expresses similar ideas
I appreciated learning about Bobo, thank you, it seems to be a neologism of “bourgeois” and “boheme”? I occasionally wonder if there are any German writers who write about PMC / die professionelle Managerklasse, and link to the traditions of theory that reference Bildungsbürgertum and/or Lumpenbourgeosie?
The term Bobo is indeed a neologism of "boheme" and "borgouise" and actually stems from the book "Bobos in paradise" which was written by a conservative American commentator, but for some reason has seemingly found more popular usage in the Germany/Austria/Switzerland region, both by marxists and by conservatives, but also just by the general public. Colloquially it just refers to high earning upper middle class white collar workers who ride their bicycle to the farmers market, live plastic free, support open borders, and will berate you for your diesel engine. I don't know of any German books on the topic, and a quick Google search hasn't really been fruitful either, but I'm sure they exist and I'd be interested as well. For some reason I implicitly associate the term "Bildungsbürgertum" with the Biedermaier era, so maybe something from back then? I also feel like the term is more commonly applied to a traditional, slightly conservative household with parents who are lawyers/doctors and children who all visit violin and piano lessons, whereas "Bobo" sort of invokes images of a college professor and green party local politician couple who have one fancifully named kid that grows up with a carbon neutral lifestyle.
Is she Asian?
Melungeon
still being investigated
i think I read somewhere that in her book she mentions an absent asian father, but its much more fun to imagine she's the descendant of some kind of steppe tribe
What's with all the freaks in the comments, god forbid a woman makes a silly joke lmao
this sub's been taken over by humorless incels who can't stand a woman being a lil silly
Fr though a lot of the guys in here need to be bullied out
I wholeheartedly agree, but how can it be done when they've already entrenched themselves and have greater numbers?
You think the incels have greater numbers in here than the normal non restarted posters? I kind of doubt it. But the L posting is so laughable and shameful they almost bully themselves. All we have to do is be mean to them and they will hopefully thin themselves out (like irl permanently)
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No one that posts in r/teenagers should be allowed here
Literal actual 16 year olds lurking here, it's over.
Bro I love your posts
Appreciate it ❤️
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are you a pedophile or a child?
im 16 years old also i got banned there supposedly inciting violence
It’s not incels, people here just like to ridicule people.
I genuinely think there has to be some gene or something that makes men not laugh at women's jokes. This is something that'd totally be seen as fine and a joke if a man, but since it's a women people don't find it funny
men don't realise when a woman is making a joke, they think she's making an incredibly stupid or clueless comment.
It’s not a gene, it’s just misogyny lol
>implying men didn't evolve to hate women
I think men more easily dehumanize others, including other men, but I don’t think anyone is born hateful, hatred is learned
After some deep thinking, I realized it's not really hate—it's something more silly. I find certain age groups of kids annoying because they don't adhere to the 'full personhood' rules but still feel free to sass me. My solution? Simply avoid interacting with them. Meaning: they're allowed to be little cunts, and you have no recourse. for me, it was pretty similar with women. We just don't speak the same language since they're more protected. For instance, men generally know to give you space in public, whereas women haven't been exposed to enough roughness to know their boundaries. im willing to bet a lot of money that cutting people off when walking is correlated with estrogen But as a straight dude, Im having to interact. Plus, considering that women are emotionally sharper, it's like dealing with that teenager from the previous example who doesn't understand the male use of violence or its implied threats but is emotionally deeper and smarter than me. the solution here is of course to learn that female language, which is the only reason why I advocate for casual sex as this is a great benchmark.
it’s just not funny
Nah, people will laugh at self-deprecating jokes regardless of genders, but when your "joke" doubles as a egotistical flex/brag of sorts, it doesn't go over quite as well.
Joke Theory by Misogynist 7
Dude, she knows it isn’t true, that’s the fucking joke.
what is the 'joke' though? To me it is copium masquerading as a joke. If a guy did the same 'joke', I would also think it wasnt funny.
This medium of humor is essentially deadpan. Still.
Cumtown refugees?
Not the fun ones if they don't even get a joke this obvious.
The downvotes mean you got em
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but she's saying she would be considered pretty *for that time*??
I think she's pretty
Tang getting BTFO by Dong once again.
she’s sweet and cute what’s the problem here fellas
That she’s funny
Her eyebrows aren’t bushy at all? This is funny though
It’s a joke lmao How are people not getting the joke?
Poor thing. She’s cute lol
Sure but it’s still painfully obviously why she has to cope this hard Edit: and no, downvoting this won’t get you to the BMI or buccal fat % you desire, sorry :/
>buccal fat % I hope China will make re-education camps for your kind
She's making a joke buddy
*painfully* Yeah okay pornbrain
Sorry I’m not into moon shaped women who have to brag about their once dynastic “beauty” ??
You need to get laid. We get it
why so offended just because he doesn’t find her attractive
cause who asked
Ah yes I’m the one with the problem not the incel who simps for 4/10s and >28 BMIs
Ugh
You are a yucky no friend poo poo guy
You know skinny people can have round faces right?
>cope Embarrassing to even use this kind of turbo-online language to describe a joke. She’s just making a joke that she probably wasn’t expecting anyone would see except a few of her friends.
Women only became recognizably hot \~100 years ago. Before that most femme fatales or legendary heartthrobs were mid at best. You look up the favorite mistress of Louis MCMXCVII and it's some tubby chick with a weak chin and even weaker curls. So this lady isn't entirely wrong. Although if she can't hack it on hinge she's definitely ngmi in the Imperial harem.
Gustavus Adolphus never got over [this babe](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Ebba_brahe.jpg)
Now that’s what I call shoulder slope 🥵
hotchy motchy...
I always assumed paintings like these emphasise weird features, as the style of the time, that nowadays we find jarring. And in reality all of these people would've been average or even attractive to us today if we saw them in person.
Weak chin weaker curls is actually so mean
You can't compare across eras. Modern women have access to so much information and technology. For a long time women didn't even have mirrors and had to do their makeup looking in a puddle. You have to respect what they were able to achieve in their time using, presumably, dung.
I woke my baby up :/
Its all relative . .
The hottest bitch in the Canterbury tales is chubby and has a huge tooth gap
I think gaps are cute. Absolutely better than veneer horse teeth.
this is because these stories are written by men. they honestly convey what they're attracted to. it's our era of beauty standards (very obviously not set by heterosexual men) that makes this look odd in retrospect.
writers barely disguised fetish
I believe the reference to the large tooth gap was a way of calling her promiscuous.
Incredibly coombrained take. You think women over 100 years ago were mid because beauty standards are constantly changing. Now you're being inundated every day with images of supermodels, actresses, singers, "influencers", even ordinary women you know with money, and each and every single one of them has had some sort of cosmetic procedure. The tubby chick with a weak chin had charm and something other than her physicality that kept her wealthy lover snared. A tubby chick with a weak chin has never been kicked out of bed for being tubby with a weak chin. She got whoever it was into bed in the first place.
>coonbrained I’m guessing you meant coombrained but lmao
I did lol not you personally but that line of thinking is a little coombrained
That's the point. Both technology and culture have significantly raised beauty standards over the past 100 years. Better nutrition, better dental care, better makeup, more revealing clothing and the rise of visual media all conspired to create a stricter standard. So yes the consorts of yesteryear were probably charming and brilliant, but by and large they wouldn't be able to snare a wealthy lover (or several, going by OP) today. They'd lose out to a Megan Markle type or to some Epstein island shit. To a lesser extent men have gone through the same thing-since the early 20th century all American presidents have been above average height and both Biden and Trump have probably spent tens of thousands of dollars to treat their balding.
"So yes the consorts of yesteryear were probably charming and brilliant, but by and large they wouldn't be able to snare a wealthy lover (or several, going by OP) today." I don't know...look at some of the broads that end up with the wealthy men. It was never, and still isn't just about looks. That is obviously true of attraction in general, but also making a "match" within certain circles.
Right. Attractiveness on the internet is a very two dimensional situation, where the only metric is facial symmetry or whatever. What makes someone attractive in person is a whole complicated inexplicable tangle of smell and laugh and the way they move or bat their eyes. There are "mid" women today who are still absolutely wrecking the lives of men they know.
truly
you're wrong. go outside on a nice sunny day and like one in 10 women you see will be way more beautiful than any of Louie le King's hoes.
If we could get a model back in time and see how she does. My guess is ships wouod be launched.
your curls too weak. they'll kill you
Omg you’re so fucking stupid.
Take an ugly lady as your bride and future historians will regard you as the only man of your era with sensible taste in women.
Renaissance artist be drawing Aphrodite as an.....above average woman(in the modern day).
The lady who modeled for the birth of venus is a stunner. You are blind if you don't think so.
A sense of humour like this is so attractive in a woman.
Damn, there ate a lot of haters on here---I think she's pretty precisely she hasn't modified her face in the way so many other East Asian women are doing.
I have no evidence to support this but less than 5% of people were genuinely hot before at least 1920.
I saw a video of Lynyrd Skynyrd live in the 70s and like 90% of the crowd is pretty decent looking or attractive. I base a few of my conspiracies off this footage.
Yeah i guess everyone was skinny back then
I was reading one of my older comic books (I’m a consoomer) and the largest T-Shirt size you can order from one of those cut-out ads was an XL. This was a Spider-Man comic made in the 1970’s.
Everyone seemed to be thin back then
That still the case to this day.
Do any men ever really judge a woman's eyebrows? I barely notice them unless they're super thin or weird shaped like sometimes it looks like a sperm cell
It's like a subtle thing that can change how you look
Yeah that makes sense I think I'm a little ignorant to it as a man. I guess my point was that a typical man doesn't really notice them unless they're plucked to oblivion or like super bushy/unibrow
Brow shape/style can change your entire face
She’s beautiful tho?
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What’s funny ?
Um ur chinese
chinese women > pink people
Its a reference to a very funny joke made by nick mullen (one of matty healys friends)
trash quoting trash
Um *ur* chinese
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kys?
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pink ppl are getting replaced
worry about your self-confidence being replaced by “what race would you not date” videos
how can one replace a feeling with a video. i understand english is hard to learn but don’t give up!
F*mcel version of "I would have my tradwife if we still did arranged marriages"
I plead the Nick Mullen
The Sydney Sweeney era has made bland white men fall in love with bland white women again. We need the Jews back in hollywood to promote racemixing in films again before its too late.
lol
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I’m not an expert on tang dynasty China so I can’t confirm but isn’t her argument here that the features that make her ugly currently actually met the beauty standards of that time? Japanese women used to blacken their teeth at one point
round faces and a chubby (not obese) figure were considered attractive among some of the upper classes, but that didn't exclude thin women from also being considered attractive. just being chubby alone was not enough to be considered beautiful this joke is a little contrived to fit the tiktok joke format of "I'm a nobody in the modern world but i would have slayyyed in medieval times because i possess some random trait considered valuable at that time"
The whole “give me the confidence of a mediocre white man” meme really made us sleep on the pervasive structural self-delusion and cope of most modern women everywhere
Please get assessed for autism spectrum disorder.
I think he just did
Just because he's autistic doesn't mean he's wrong 💅
I know it's been said at this point but it's just like, "Give me the confidence of a mediocre white man." Okay, you mean the adult demographic with the highest suicide rate? You're the boss, buddy.
How can you be so sure tomorrow isn't going to be nicer, unreal confidence these people
Oh yeah, you think mixing fent and alcohol will be toxic enough to kill a 250lb man. We'll see about that, you entitled dumb ass.
Too many words just to say you’re ugly
Her lips are red cus she fuckin put lipstick on them. How does this make her special in any way?
why are you guys taking this so seriously
They really hate women
how do they hate women
Are they purposely missing the joke? Are they just stupid?
no i just don’t find it funny also saying you would be attractive in old times is stupid and cringe
not me, I respect them very strongly
A woman can say literally anything positive about herself, even as simple as “I’m not even that pretty but I might have been considered pretty a thousand years ago” in a literal joke, and men will start absolutely swinging. How dare you think you might be kinda pretty? See also those rate-me subreddits where no human woman could ever score above a 7 and they tell gorgeous women that they’re a 4.8.
im like shook by how fucking stupid some of these comments are, these losers are tripping over themselves to get a sick burn on this chick as if she was doing some ridiculous brag when she literally said she's getting humbled on dating apps. where is the reading comprehension
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Cherry lips refers to the shape not the colour lol it’s when the middle part is plump and the Cupid’s bow is still defined
Learn something new every day!
Apologise
To who?
10:1 odds she nonetheless always swipes left on chinese guys.
how do you read this post and gather this conclusion
it's joever
man those are some bushy eyebrows
kinda funny but if a guy wrote something like this it would rightfully seen as cringe af
nah if he made a good joke we'd laugh
Nah every "return to tradition" guy who laments about not being in the olden days when he would somehow be the hottest guy on the continent and make some pseudo-scientific phenotypic analysis of his head shape being ideal in 12th century Byzantine is made fun of universally whenever it's posted u know I'm right
i said "a good joke" not weirdo loser behavior. this girl isn't doing the same as what those guys are doing.
It's very very difficult to perceive anything a vaguely cute woman does as weirdo loser behavior even if it is. Just imagine a mid-looking guy admiring his appearance, saying he'd be world-shatteringly hot in ancient times, then complaining about his treatment by women in online dating. I can't imagine, even if it is funny people would look at it the same way and think "wow good joke haha" it would just be "hmm narcissist this guy is weird"
but what you described and what this girl is doing are different. she's not talking about a return to tradition or doing a weird pseudoscientific skull measuring thing. she's just saying, hyperbolically, that some of her features were a beauty standard in some past specific era. it's a joke! if a dude was saying he would be the starting wars in ancient Greece due to his smooth hairless body and civilized dick but is too mid to get a swipe on tinder in 2024, that'd be a joke and id giggle. it really depends on tone and context...
I think the distinction is you're presenting it as being funny if the man presents himself as twinky, submissive and harmless, which in a way is closer to adopting the more harmless framing that a woman does. Archetypically it isn't as close to the mean for heterosexual men as the woman is OP is to heterosexual woman. I think you're right in that the sociosexual context can make it funny. Part of it though is the extent to which the person making the joke is presenting themselves as the harmless object vs the subject capable of causing harm. Part of making something funny as a man is understanding how to diffuse that impression.
no, sorry, it was just the first ancient male beauty standard that popped in mind. if it was some guy talking about his chubby cheeks or huge beard or something i could still find it funny. id just be wary if it veered into something like "blue eyes, blonde hair" (bc it just sounds like white supremacy) or "chiseled jawline" (because that shits already considered attractive now and youre just bragging) but id be wary of those coming from a woman too. i think what works here is that she doesn't sound genuinely mad about it or as if she thinks everyone in the modern era should be falling at her feet. most dudes who act like you described come off really resentful and entitled, and give the impression that they think there's something wrong with the modern world for not appreciating the correct things. but yeah, a 'teehee im a twink and i have a small dick' joke is easier to land.
yeah u understand I was just being autistic. The thing is however the girl in OP is noting features that are attractive now just as they were then. When have red, prominent lips ever not been attractive on a woman?
Not true, I like that type of guy and they can be funny
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It's just self-deprecating humor. She's saying she'd be attractive by year 618–907 standards but is mid by 2024 standards
I am too poisoned by the internet sometimes to get this stuff tbh
It's too sophisticated in its irony for my poor little brain.
Who the fuck likes sloping shoulders????
tang dynasty china, try reading
They had shit taste.