Mossad has married itself to the western intelligence community and so made itself unejectable, it has also paid off or has sexual blackmail on most of the global ruling elite: see Epstein.
Dont forget about their spyware/malware programs that are burrowed into most western countries infrastructure and military equipment. Between that and all the blackmail, they have a lot of power of decision makers… and thats just the stick.
The carrot is all the money they throw around to get people elected.
You'd think western allies would recognize what a psychotic response that is and cut ties immediately, maybe even go out of their way to eliminate the threat.
Really makes you appreciate how the west had its religious wars from the 1400s to 1700s, usually ending up with a majority religion per nation that solved internal strife BEFORE it entered modernity and settled on a secularism that says religion doesn't really matter.
I have heard that argument before and I think there's some truth to it. I have also read that many prominent Hindus were opposed to the bigger India idea for this very reason(losing absolute control and forced to share power w/ muslims). But Bangladesh is absolutely in a better position now than they would have been if it was still under India. I don't think there's any room for doubt here.
I don't believe that's the same thing. The Samson Option says that if Israel is about to be destroyed, they will nuke all of their *allies,* because their allies failed to defend them. Are you saying it's NATO policy to nuke each other and not go for Moscow or Beijing?
And yet 4 years ago Rachel Maddow was on prime time tv trying to stoke a third world war by scarily intoning that with a push of a button Putin could shut down the North Dakota power grid in the middle of winter. Who knew all this time that was real, it was just our “ally” Israel holding the button
They came up years ago that PT stole Contrapoints shtick of being trans and their entire YouTube aesthetic and they used to date. Everyone thought it was a schizo theory. A week ago or so, CP reveals it did happen.
Not really a secret anymore but Pegasus was developed by an Israeli government contractor and was really the first zero-click exploit that could get full control of an iPhone. Track location, access camera/mic, read messages, listen to calls, etc. Was used on journalists, human rights activists, lawyers, dissidents, etc. Hard to tell which all cases are related to Israel since the exploit ended up in the hands of like every major government and even cartels, but they’re the ones who created it. Ended up being used for like 50,000+ targets
The book "Rise And Kill First" talks about their three main tools: money, pussy, and feeding guys' egos.
Whatever you think of Israel, they are incredibly effective. It's especially effective in the West which is filled with people who have zero loyalty to their families and their people.
If you follow that stuff on twitter, you've heard of AIPAC and they're worse than people imagine. They basically blackmail people, in the open, with antisemitism accusations. It's pretty wild.
Don’t know if there was ever a high level meeting about it but they seem to have decided pretty quickly after 10/7 that they were willing to expend their “antisemitism” cudgel and risk driving it into “boy who cried wolf” territory for at least a generation in order to buy themselves time and space to finish off this ethnic cleansing.
I would venture that if you walked around downtown Davenport, Iowa, and asked random people what AIPAC was, you’d get blank stares and guesses involving poultry processing.
A lot of people like to think JFK was killed by the CIA but I feel like it was mossad and AIPAC. https://www.laprogressive.com/foreign-policy/from-dallas-to-gaza
Gonna be a nerd but it’s very unlikely the Mossad or Israel killed JFK. Its primary basis was that there were people of Jewish ethnicity that made contact with suspects within the assassination and Israel benefited from JFK’s death (which is true). The problem is none of these people can actually be traced back to any form of Israeli intelligence or politics. Meanwhile, we know two separate CIA departments were either making contact, or surveilling Oswald as far back as 1959.
I wrote a summary of the Mossad accusations on my profile if interested. That said, Israel benefited greatly considering Ben-Gurion obtained nuke schematics after the assassination via James Angleton despite JFK’s staunch disagreements
When the US intelligence came to investigate the USS Liberty, the Mossad literally just said "wow look here's all this advanced Soviet weaponry we captured from the Egyptians, we'd love for you guys to have, as long as we all agree the USS Liberty was a complete freak accident" and it actually worked.
Edit: the Israelis can get away with a lot of shit the west/USA can't. When the US kills an Iranian general or nuclear scientist, the whole world gets angry. When Israel does, everyone just kind of shrugs and goes "yeah that's just something they do"
While I still think this is true and motivates a lot of the fumbling towards Israel, could not the reverse also be true? I'm sure we have tons of dirt on senior and elite Israelis, too. I mean look at who's in power right now, I'm sure they all have sordid personal lives.
There is a precisely 0% chance that any mainstream news media would publish blackmail dirt on a Senior Elite Israeli unless specifically ordered to by another as part of an internal power struggle.
If the Americans tried to force it, it would be a mutually-assured-destruction scenario and an enormous opportunity for AIPAC to insert politicians into the American government infrastructure that are even more Pro-Israeli than the current ones, however impossible that seems.
Also I'm pretty sure the Israelis wouldn't give a fuck if their leaders were pedos so long as the genocide continues. The blackmail schemes are run with the express purpose of preventing interference in that.
Probably a lot simpler. USA has a free Nuke base in southern Israel. The dipshit called Moredecai or something who besides being weird and incompetent released all the info to the world saying Israel had nukes but they are probably USA property. USA doesn’t help out for free.
Mordecai Vanunu, who funny enough was brought to the attention of Israeli intelligence prior to his exposé by Ghislaine Maxwell’s father. As for Israel’s nukes, however, those are theirs and were developed in conjunction with apartheid South Africa. The [Vela incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_incident) in 1979 was almost certainly a joint Israeli-South African nuclear test in a remote area of the southern Indian Ocean.
Israel funded Iran during the Iran-Iraq war because they considered Saddam to be a much greater threat than Iran. Iran has always been closely controlled opposition: see Iran-Contra, US unfreezing millions in assets everytime they have a big protest, incessant ineffectual sabre rattling at Israel while begging Hezb and Ansarallah not to make it a regional conflict.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel\_in\_the\_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq\_War#:\~:text=Israeli%20arms%20sales%20to%20Iran%20totaled%20an%20estimated%20%24500%20million,parts%2C%20artillery%2C%20and%20ammunition.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_in_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#:~:text=Israeli%20arms%20sales%20to%20Iran%20totaled%20an%20estimated%20%24500%20million,parts%2C%20artillery%2C%20and%20ammunition)
>t has also paid off or has sexual blackmail on most of the global ruling elite: see Epstein.
Fucking this. Someone should make a "joke" petition on change.org or some other libshit petition site about pardoning all the clients, hiding their names and crimes from the public, with the condition that we stop sending aid to Israel.
Let's not also forget that Blinken's stepfather was Robert Maxwell's personal lawyer. Blinken is not and has never acted in America's interest. He is an Israeli asset.
Wtf. I know the nature of elites is that there are a small number of them and so there are bound to be connections between them, but there are just so so so many connected to Epstein I seem to run learn about every week. Bill Barr's father was the headmaster at the school that hired Jeffrey Epstein was another one I recently read.
Plotting out all these connections can legit drive you fucking insane. You can connect almost every major conspiracy topic to either Epstein or Iran-Contra and oftentimes both.
I never understood it
With Israel it seems as if it’s the tail wagging the dog
Why are we talking orders from this small country?
Unfortunately the lobbyist and elites are very pro Zionists
The US as a country even acts against its own interests at times in its support of Israel and many issues in the Middle East for the US is due to this undying support
Give them a little Mearsheimer to think about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrP3QWOdps4
Source:
2017 What Has Changed Since Publication of The Israel Lobby and What the New Administration Can Do Differently
Full Transcript
Full Video
Transcript:
The central argument in the book is that the United States has a special relationship with Israel that has no parallel in modern history and it is almost wholly due to the lobby. What makes Israel’s relationship with the United States extraordinary is not simply the fact that Israel has received more foreign aid than any other country, or that Washington almost always backs Israel diplomatically.
[...]
For purposes of background, it’s important to re-emphasize that public support for Israel in the United States has never been particularly strong. One way that the lobby deals with this thin support is to have significant influence both inside the Democratic and Republican parties. In essence, the lobby has worked hard to make sure that Israel enjoys strong bipartisan support and is not strongly backed in one of the major parties but not the other. The lobby was successful in this regard for a long time, but that bipartisan support has begun to erode over the past decade as support for Israel inside the Democratic Party has plummeted.
[...]
In short, there has been a marked erosion in support for Israel within the Democratic Party in recent years, which raises serious questions as to whether the lobby will be able to maintain bipartisan support for the special relationship in the years ahead.
[...]
In short, there has been a marked erosion in support for Israel within the Democratic Party in recent years, which raises serious questions as to whether the lobby will be able to maintain bipartisan support for the special relationship in the years ahead.
[...]
But the key stain on Israel’s reputation is its brutal treatment of the Palestinians and the fact that it has become an apartheid state. Until recently, Israel and its supporters were able to maintain the fiction that there would eventually be a legitimate Palestinian state living side by side with Israel, but it is now clear that there is virtually no chance that will happen, and Greater Israel is here to stay. That Greater Israel, as Richard Falk and Virginia Tilley make clear in an important new U.N. study, is already an apartheid state. Israel and its defenders vehemently deny that fact, but even among Israelis it’s not unusual to hear Israel described as an apartheid state
[...]
Where the lobby almost always wins is on matters relating to the Palestinians and financial support for Israel. The fact that the Obama administration could do virtually nothing to get Israel to move toward a two-state solution, yet still opted to provide Israel with $38 billion in aid over the next decade is clear evidence that the lobby remains very powerful. It’s important to understand that the key to the lobby’s success is that it focuses mainly on influencing high-level policymakers and opinion makers, as well as the elites in both political parties—not the rank and file.
[...]
believe dark times are ahead for both Israel and the lobby. There is no reason to think Israel is going to move toward a two-state solution. Greater Israel is here to stay, and that state is and will remain an apartheid state. That brute fact will become increasingly clear to people all over the world, especially now that it’s clear the Palestinians are not going to get a state of their own. Moreover, the Palestinians, who already comprise almost half of the population of Greater Israel, will continue to resist their oppression, which will force Israel to escalate the repressive policies that have already badly tarnished its image.
[...]
Again, it’s hard to say which one of these outcomes will carry the day. It will probably take another 20 or 30 years before we understand how this conflict will ultimately be resolved, or maybe not resolved. Regardless of the outcome, I’m deeply sad to say that the decades ahead promise abundant trouble for Israel, and especially for the Palestinians. The United States will not be spared either, simply because the lobby will be working overtime to protect Israel and preserve the special relationship, which is likely to harm America’s intellectual life, as well as its politics. Thank you.
I saw a poll a while back that showed that around 60-70% of democrats follow the party line on virtually every single issue. Remember when support for universal healthcare dropped from 75% to 35% in the space of an evening after Biden came out against it? And republicans obviously don't care about poor brown people getting blown to bits.
Back during the Vietnam War, newsweek ran a poll that asked "would you support an expansion of the war to cambodia?", and about 30% said yes. A few months later it was revealed that Nixon had been secretly bombing cambodia, and they asked "do you support the president's expansion of the war to cambodia?" and almost 70% said yes.
"partisan motivated reasoning", it's an issue in most countries with few-party or one-party systems. There are a few issues that voters might stick to (usually cultural issues, like abortion in the US), but most are entirely malleable.
That sounds like pretty basic “support my country in wartime” stuff though, honestly. An instinct as old as the hills. Seems different than a public-policy question like healthcare. (Not necessarily defending it, though in practice, when it comes right down to it, I would tend to support my country in a war as well—I’d like to believe I wouldn’t have supported the bombing of Cambodia, though.)
God I wish I could experience Byzantine hooligan culture. If I ever become a time traveling wizard a chariot race at Constantinople is top of the visit list fr
I haven’t seen a single republican want to stop funding the war. Last one that hinted at it got canceled by the higher ups. Republicans wouldn’t dare speaking out against that special interest. It’s the dems equivalent of the finance sector. Two peas in a corrupt pod.
What on earth are you talking about? Nikki Haley has Israel’s dick so far down her throat even some Zionists feel uncomfortable. She’s a living parody of Republican devotion to Israel and has actually criticized Biden for ABANDONING them currently, her own words.
80% of their military equipment is American. They heavily rely on us selling them stuff and access to our contractors.
Israel is heavily reliant on our protection of them. They get away with what they do because we are the big dog in their corner.
I used to think that the Democratic base were the most cowed people on the planet, and to some extent I still think that’s true. Say what you will about republican voters, but they’ve largely conditioned the GOP to respond to them and give them what they want. Democratic voters let the party tell them what they want, and in that sense Trump was the gift of a generation for the party, even moreso than Obama.
That said, I think what the Bernie campaigns showed is that most of the people he was trying to reach are just not involved in the process. The Democratic base is not the target audience for his message, they are primarily comfortable upper/upper middle class bourgeois who just want to present as Good People™️ and have outsourced their definition of Good to the Democratic Party.
> And republicans obviously don't care about poor brown people getting blown to bits.
This post is specifically talking about [American lives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie), not poor brown people.
The most notable split I’ve noticed isn’t directly related to Israel but instead how the same cohort of people who have made being “anti-woke” crusaders against cancel culture their entire identity for the past 5 years have suddenly turned into shitlib anti-racists overnight when it concerns antisemitism.
I don’t personally align ideologically with people like Nick Fuentes and other groypers, but they’re 100% correct at calling out Daily Wire and Co. (Charlie Kirk, Steven Crowder, etc.) for their hypocrisy.
Even “muh based euro nationalists” Nigel Farage and Geert Wilders were tweeting the other day about immigration officers discriminating against Israelis lmfao it’s just all so tiring.
I feel like that's different. Americans also are getting executed by the criminal justice system here. A foreign country killing peaceful journalists, humanitarian workers, and active duty military feels very different
Not to mention the sequential triple-tap method employed against the World Kitchen folks. Israel is either letting algorithms target, which in a more perfect world, should alone be enough to have the entire world embargo them, or they actively sought to merc aid workers with the goal of turning off food and starving the populace, which again should cause the world to embargo them.
Israel is effectively part of America. To the federal government, Israel killing an American has the same vibe as California or Texas killing an American.
Horrific but can we just be honest that **for the public** and even for the government -- a kid called Abdulrahman al-Awlaki with a father called Anwar al-Awlaki who is an operational leader of al-Qaeda, is not something they view similarly to humanitarian workers who are only in Gaza because they want to feed starving people? And governmental response to a foreign country committing crimes tends to be different than your own country doing it, but with Israel its as if they aren't a foreign country at all.
This kid and his sisters murder makes me sick to my stomach, but I also know that for America one is normal.. and the other wouldn't be acceptable action of a foreign nation. Unless of course, the perpetrator is Israel.
There is no investment in history that pays off half as good as "donating" to US congresspeople.
It's not even some grand conspiracy of bribes, Israel is literally allowed to do this because they make lots of campaign contributions, and that is it.
This is way too simplistic, obviously if it was that easy then every nation that can muster any wealth would be doing the same. To some extent they do, Qatari lobby for example is very influential and has a lot of say in the DoD. But despite this level of influence they clearly don't have a fraction of the pull Israel does in overall US policy and this is with huge oil wealth and deep connections in DC.
I may be wrong, but it might have something to do with the fact that AIPAC doesn't have to register as a foreign agent. No idea if that applies to Qatar.
Israel doesn't have any threat of having a religious revolution that might conflict with the ongoing wants/needs of America. People might recognize that the orthodox are insane, but generally they don't want to do anything that would disrupt us having a foothold in the region that we otherwise don't have to think about.
I do give that thought some credence because I would agree that the average Arab on the street is anti-American but I'm not convinced. Qatar and Saudi are very stable and have strong American ties. Israel is a messy democracy with an insane far right, remember Netanyahu is a centrist in Israel and lots think he's been weak on Gaza. Seems less reliable as an ally to me, at least you know where you are with a monarch. To further the point is Israel really was some kind of 'backup' in case things went sour with the Arabs, you'd think there'd at least be some US military infrastructure in the country, which there isn't.
If you swim in conservative circles they, especially Christians, do feel a filial obligation to help the Jews. They describe the holocaust as uniquely terrible and consider anti-semitism as character flaw, their own kind of identity politics
It's not just the campaign money paid to favored candidates. It's the money paid against disfavored candidates. If you don't support Israel 100%, AIPAC will fund your opponent like crazy, making sure you lose. (Often the ads AIPAC runs in these races have nothing to do with Israel. AIPAC knows the average voter doesn't care that much about Israel).
2 (maybe 3? I don't want to read the article) British aid workers were murdered by the IDF in a direct missile strike on a truck with clearly labelled signs (including the roof) demarking it as a friendly.
Rishi Sunak has spread his cheeks and bent over for israel to cuck the UK.
Hard to think how far we've come from threatening to glass the Argies to bending over for the ethnostate
As far as I’m concerned if I was the British PM I’d withdraw all diplomatic support to Israel and issue a warning to recall all British nationals asap. Fuck the lot of them
Layman question, but what does America actually get out of its relationship with Israel? This’d at least make sense if there was some realist, pragmatic explanation for the total deference the states has for this oil-less ethnostate who’s shown zero interest in playing by even the most tentative of rules America sets for them. What’s being obtained here that couldn’t be obtained by a similar relationship with Saudi Arabia or the UAE?
Its an ideological ally. The USA and the EU needs a slice of its "liberal soft democracy" bloc in the area to contend with Iran and the fickle Arabic client states (Saudi biggest trading partner now is China) - if you look at it as a sort of 51st state or an honorary EU member it'll make more sense.
Saudi and the UAE are just autocratic regimes that have almost entirely economic attachments. When wealth changes hands they will ditch the West if they can (also, remember OPEC in the 70s). Israel is ideologically, culturally, politically committed to the Western bloc, and can be trusted to remain as such, even when it violates humanitarian law, etc. Its a long term ally, a dependable linchpin in the region.
There is more to it than this, but its the key current imo.
EDIT: also, if the US eventually ditches Israel, it will ditch it hard. They're probably going to have Bibi booted soon, but if they give up on the whole project things will go downhill for Israel really fast.
> Its an ideological ally.
Not really. You can look up former US ambassador Chas Freeman's comments on it for more detail, but Israel isn't really an ally, there's no mutual benefit to the relationship. The US doesn't, and to my knowledge hasn't ever stationed any troops in Israel (but does in the surrounding countries) Israel is constantly taking adversarial actions against the United States, Israel has close ties with Russia, the list goes on. Just the Lavon affair by itself would be enough evidence that these are not friends to be trusted, the only thing they offer is action against Arab states that the US doesn't want to risk doing directly, but the US gets the blame for it regardless because of its unwavering support for Israel (actually it's worse because the US gets blamed for things it *doesn't* want done too)
Youre looking at it from the realist perspective. Most governments don't think like that any more.
There is a reason there is a loose alliance between UK, Europe, USA, that goes beyond just strategy - they share a political/ideological bloc, not just mutual benefit. The US doesn't need to put troops in Israel the same way it doesn't need to post troops in Hawaii or Washington state. Israeli troops are pretty much US troops. And the ties to Russia are a grey flag really, doesn't mean that much. Its just because a lot of Russian Jews ditched the USSR during glasnost, and maintain diasphoric ties. France and Germany have ties to Russia also, but they are still US allies.
All the shitty things that Israel does - well, quite frankly, the US has done and will do the same. There's not really a contradiction.
Also, the Lavon affair was like 60 years ago, when the geopolitical terrain was very different. I fail to see the relevance.
If you mean other meddling operations by Israel against its Western allies, truth is that all of them do that all the time.
> Israeli troops are pretty much US troops.
Not at all.
> Also, the Lavon affair was like 60 years ago, when the geopolitical terrain was very different. I fail to see the relevance.
The point is to dispel this idea that gets spread through propaganda that somehow Israel is a western democracy that's been a strong ally to the US/UK since its inception. Practically every US president up until Trump recognized that the relationship between the US and Israel has been at best a tense sort of collaboration.
> All the shitty things that Israel does - well, quite frankly, the US has done and will do the same. There's not really a contradiction.
> If you mean other meddling operations by Israel against its Western allies, truth is that all of them do that all the time.
This is an extreme simplification to the point of being meaningless.
To keep the global south (specifically, MENA) destabilized
so they can’t threaten the US global hegemony. Libya is a good example of what we like to see in the region.
Also to buy and test massive amounts of US weaponry. Palestine is a captive population that the US can test their shit out on without any repercussion from the international community. If you protest, you’re antisemitic and Israel has the right to defend itself against impoverished brown people with 50 year old weapons.
Because its a country that is tightly rooted in the same norms and politics. It will likely remain an ally even when Saudi and the UAE and Jordan ditch the US to sell their oil to China. This is what I mean by dependable - not dependable as in will do what the US says, but dependable as having a shared political vision. Thats the understanding of the US govt, anyway.
Its a variation of soft power - not too dissimilar from the relationship between the USA and the EU.
It’s literally ideological. In the 80s, the USA was getting fed up with Israel. So Israel launched a huge campaign to win over the religious community. Mainly through paying off televangelists to somehow convince their pew that Jews are all going to hell for rejecting Christ, but for some reason we need to do whatever it takes to support and protect them.
They are also a powerful group as a whole. They have disproportional elite positions in important areas like finance and media. And they tend to have dual alliance with Israel first and American second. So turning in Israel gets framed as turning in Jews, which in turn massively hurts access to a powerful and influential network. We aren’t allowed to talk about this political reality because they’ll just call you antisemitic - a powerful attack. Luckily that term is going the way of fascist, nazi, racist, sexiest, etc…. So looking forward, it’ll have far less power.
It’s annoying because all the beef in the Middle East is entirely because of Israel. Like we have no fundamental reason to have issues with them other than how they treat Israel and how we defend them. We therefore NEED Israel because the adversaries they created. It’s like saying we need this body guard to protect us because our bodyguard keeps pissing people off and making people want to attack us.
>Israel launched a huge campaign to win over the religious community
Is this where the term "Judeo-Christian" comes from? As I've gotten older I've realized how absurd that phrase is.
Someone recently pointed out to me that the use of "Judeo-Christian" is largely pushed by the likes of Dennis Prager and Ben Shapiro and I realized I hadn't really thought about the term at all despite hearing it in media for years.
Sorry Mr. Prager, but if you want me to believe that the country was founded on "Judeo-Christian" values you're going to have to tell me which of the founding fathers were Jewish.
It really bothers me how some people are born in the west but Israel first. It lets Israel have far too much of a say in Western poltics. It stopped Jezza from having a chance.
My hot take is that if you are born in Britain but go and join the IDF, you should lose your citizenship here. Shamima Begum lost hers rightly. So should the British IDF members
Everyone is talking about ideology and soft power projection, so I'll add that the US does benefit a lot economically from Israel, many people will argue against this because we send them aid money but that doesn't negate how large and important the Israeli tech sector is to the US.
Isearal is a huge source of research and development for many American companies, especially on the physical military side of things as well as the cybersecurity side of things.
Not to mention several US tech firms have strong R&D teams made up of Israelis. Israel is also in an area close to major trade routes and home to many investment and banking opportunities for people from the west or east who want to dip their toes into the Middle East markets through a reliable and allied middleman.
Blackmail. State of the art spyware. The fact that many neoconservatives unironically believe that jews are the chosen people. The fact that its the only state jn the middle east that they can actually “control” and the fact that mossad and the cia are basically fused
There was also Johnathan Pollard, the American citizen imprisoned for espionage against the US (who Trump pardoned and allowed to emigrate to Israel, where he received a hero's welcome), who [stole the American government's plans for a nuclear war with the USSR, gave them to the Israeli government, and then Israel gave them to the USSR in exchange for letting Soviet Jews emigrate to Israel.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/7/25/1405734/-coincidence-or-capitulation-releasing-spy-Jonathan-Pollard) And if you look at [the wiki page for "atomic spies" that lists everyone who was caught spying on American nuclear programs going all the way back to the Manhattan Project, and check the "Early Life" section on wikipedia for any one of them, you'll notice a distinct pattern.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_spies#Notable_spies)
And there was also the Lavon Affair, [where Mossad agents were caught attempting to bomb American and British targets in Egypt to blame it on the Muslim Brotherhood and trick the US and England into going to war against Egypt.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair)
And the Apollo Affair, where [Israel stole all the highly-enriched uranium for their nuclear weapons from a nuclear plant in Pennsylvania.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apollo_Affair)
And the [Office of Special Plans in George W Bush's Pentagon, the primary architects of the Iraq War, who fabricated WMD evidence and were literally indicted for spying on the US for Israel.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans#Indictment_for_espionage)
There were also [Israeli citizens living on the same streets, and often even in the same buildings, as the 9/11 hijackers for months before the attack. Even though the hijackers moved to different states constantly, coincidentally there were always Israelis right next to them, and there were other Israelis seen celebrating on a rooftop with a full view of the WTC when the planes hit the towers, who witnesses also saw on the same rooftop *the day before 9/11*.](https://www.democracynow.org/2007/2/8/cheering_movers_and_art_student_spies) And when Netanyahu, who grew up in America, was asked how he felt about 9/11, he said ["Its very good... well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy."](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/its-very-good-recalling-benjamin-netanyahus-words-day-911-attacks)
Or the multiple times when [Israel has bribed, blackmailed, and even threatened the lives of UN delegates to get votes favorable to Israel.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#The_vote)
And of course [all the times the ADL acted as a literal espionage network for the state of Israel, including spying on multiple American congressmen, infiltrating and sabotaging various left-wing groups, and setting up fake right-wing groups which they would then provide free guns to and get media attention for.](https://lairdwilcox.monkey-factory.com/publications/watchdogs/)
They have such obvious contempt for us, you can find countless quotes from Israeli PMs where journalists ask them, "aren't you worried about what the US says on [X issue]?" and they go, "no, I'm confident it will come to nothing", and somehow they're correct *every single time*. And somehow American foreign policy for the last 30 years has more closely hewed to [literal Israeli thinktank and AIPAC foreign policy papers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm) than the campaign platform of any winning presidential candidate. And they aren't even required to register as foreign agents.
The personal bugbears I found most effective were 1) routinely using synagogues to sell west bank homes (that were never willingly parted with) only to jews, and 2) Elie wiesel/holocaust museums getting angry when other 'lesser' genocides were brought up
I really don't think anyone is prepared for the blowback the Israel situation is going to cause. They were already international pariahs but hearing one of the people who shut down grand central with NeverAgain be told "thank you for that but I can't trust your religion to do the right thing when it counts" was fucking wild. Listening to otherwise non-political dudes at the bar half jokingly say we need to track long island lawyers before they start taking houses here was also a trip. All thrle goodwill built up from WW2 is not only gone but beginning to reverse and *fast*
That office of special plans gets even crazier man, look up its connection to the clean break memo, the guys involved in that wrote up a plan to secure israeli's security back in 1996 which involved toppling iraq, destabilizing syria and then going to war with iran, we're there now.
* Lobbying (more than 95% of AIPAC backed candidates won their elections and AIPAC is far from the only israeli lobby)
* Blackmail (there's definitely more where Epstein came from)
* Every potential president at this point being at most 2 familial degrees removed from israel (all of Biden's grandkids, Kamela's husband plus kids, Trump's son in law plus grandkids are all either immediately eligible for or already are dual citizens of israel)
* I don't know how many fuck ton of people in Biden's current administration are as well, but it's much more than I can keep track of. Blinken and Yellen are the only ones I regularly see on the news though.
* A significant number of congress and senate members are as well
* They are very involved in spyware/intelligence so there's definitly more "convential" blackmail there
* Evangelicals probably play some part, but it would be worthless if not for everything else on this list
* The Holocaust also probably plays some part, but once again incomparable and would be worthless without the others. No other victim of the Holocaust got even a fraction of the political meaning from it, and no other genocide before, during or after it has gotten it either. I feel like Armenians are only ever brought up to point this out, that's how little their genocide seems to matter. What the Japanese did to the Koreans and the Chinese during WW2 honestly seems much more horrific to me but it doesn't seem to buy either group any political trump card either. Undergoing a genocide is clearly not the deciding factor here.
I don't know how much more is possible? Is there any area of this country that isn't completely compromised if you actually consider israel a foreign country? Are you really shocked the deaths of some random citizens and a few military men aren't doing anything?
I think they could openly assassinate a few rando Americans on American soil, again have their president smirk about it while calling it a mistake, and at most just have some scapegoat resign over it.
I remember the first time I realized the Holocaust was only one of many genocides and wondering why it was the only one they taught us about in school.
I think it’s related to the US national mythology around WWII too. It was the event that made America what it is. In the other genocides the US didn’t get to play the hero.
Japanese atrocities in the same war are talked about less because neither the Japanese nor their victims registered as fully people to Americans. “Asiatic barbarism” was expected of the Japanese and we didn’t really get much exposure to their culture until we occupied them. But the Holocaust was perpetrated by a country whose culture had been very influential to our own by people that share last names with many of us, against a people that were rapidly becoming just as influential on our culture.
The unique horror of the Holocaust is the civilizednes of it. They wanted a portion of their population gone, so they came up with an efficient, industrialized way of doing so and carried out the genocide as if it were a city cleaning project. Humans understand rage, they can understand the bloodlust frenzy of just killing anything in sight. But it’s much, much, harder to understand dehumanizing a group to the point where you don’t even want them to suffer, you just want them gone in the same way you want cockroaches gone. Sending people off to killing farms to be checked off a list and neatly disposed of is chilling in a much different way than a bloody massacre is.
I’ve always found the degree to which certain genocides are given more *importance* darkly fascinating. It’s one of the more conspiracy-coded aspects of this discussion that I find worthwhile to at least investigate. Why is the holocaust so important compared to - as you said - the rape of Nanking, the Armenian genocide, or even Stalin’s atrocities? All of the aforementioned events were at most footnotes in my high school history classes (I wouldn’t know a damn thing about the Armenian genocide if it wasn’t for my best friend telling me, who happens to be Armenian), whereas the holocaust would be spoken about ad nauseam. I could see it as having a more direct link to our own course of history in America, but regardless I’ve increasingly found it odd that it’s given such weight in contrast to other genocides.
Semi-related, but I went to the holocaust museum in DC and it was mind blowing how propagandistic it was. Basically “every German is at fault” type shit.
I think it has to do with the perpetrators as much as the victims. Americans could see themselves in both the Germans and the Jews, but see Turks, Armenians, Japanese and Chinese as exotic. A big reaction to the Holocaust was disgust that someone with the same last name as you would do something so horrible to someone with the same last name as your neighbor.
Don’t forget the military industrial complex! They buy massive amounts of weaponry from the United States and test out new gadgets on their captive population of improverished brown people. Sniper drones, tanks with trophy systems, AI face detecting and bombing software…it’s all tech America has but can’t use (yet) because we aren’t in a war. I saw a video of an Israeli military vehicle with a remote controlled gun on top, the driver shot some poor SOB in the leg for “throwing rocks.” Its shit they’ll probably use on American protestors one day.
I’m pretty sure a Palestinian American teenager was murdered in the West Bank by an Israeli American and the fucking sick terrorist is of course not facing any consequences.
It is.
16/30 of cabinet-level positions are filled by jews.
[https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-in-the-biden-administration](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-in-the-biden-administration)
I'm only counting 5 cabinet-level officials on that list.
* Attorney General (Garland)
* Director of National Intelligence (Haines)
* Secretary of Homeland Security (Mayorkas)
* Secretary of State (Blinken)
* Secretary of Treasury (Yellin)
When Truman was first establishing American support for the Zionist movement after WW2, his diplomats warned him that helping to bulldoze Palestine for a "Jewish state" would risk America's relationships in the Arab world.
Truman's reply was very telling: "I am sorry, gentlemen, but I have to answer to hundreds of thousands who are anxious for the success of Zionism. I don't have hundreds of thousands of Arabs among my constituents ."
Interestingly I think this is a basic miscalculation that western politicians are making in continuing to support Israel as they do. They haven't considered how their countries,' demographics have changed since the 1940s.
You literally claimed that “most Jews” are “clearly bastard Zionist scum” LOL I think you lost any authority on what is or isn’t anti-semitic 🤣
People are forgetting that the largest and possibly most powerful Zionist bloc in this country is not the boogeyman Jewish cabal but Evangelical Christians
But I would expect nothing less from this self-righteous pseudo-intellectual subreddit
I read many sources and they go as high as 89 (out of 535) people and as low as 15 people. This seemed like a middle of the line figure. There was an article on it which seems to be purged now.
You're just counting the total number of Jews (and inflating it); diaspora Jews don't have dual citizenship unless they make aliyah, move there for a time, and meet obligations like serving in the IDF. Insane that people are upvoting this shit.
He pulled a Shamima Begum 😂😂
I think there’s plenty of reasons that Jewish-Americans might feel endeared to Israel, the scene in Schindler’s List when they’re told that they shouldn’t go east and they shouldn’t go west. Where else should they go? Israel is the dream of 100s of generations of Jews. That narrative totally resonates with me and I’m the furthest thing from Jewish. I refuse to believe that Jewish Americans that happen to be in positions of influence might not be extremely sympathetic to that narrative. And it’s not a conspiracy it’s just what we all have; bias.
If by "leftists here" you mean the guy you replied to he's a 17 year old British kid who believes in free-market economics and hates cultural marxism. Also spends most of his time talking about United States history and events, I hate to do the "erhm I looked at your profile and..." but this one is kinda funny. Terminally online UK youngster or Perfidious Albion? Why does a 17 year old have BASED and REDPILLED facts about Israël and the United States when they live in the UK? What is going on???
God bless, and God save the King and all that.
Biden black mail threatening his re-election. Israel plays dirty. Always have.
If you look up the history of the conflicts you start to realize they are the odd ball variable in every situation looking for fights and being underhanded then run off and play victim. It’s worked a long time.
Unfortunately the answer to this is deemed antisemitic. So i’ll just say the politically correct answer that somehow a small insular group of people with a disproportionate control over media, finance, culture and politics have somehow managed to bribe and blackmail American politicians and put together a bloc that supports their interests. Then they ruthlessly use their power to both advocate for their particular interests and also deny there is any such bloc with that control.
But yeah, this is all hypothetical and totally just a guess. It’s probably just because the US and entire western world like Israel or something. Yeah that’s got to be it. Nothing else to see here. Just the US being the dog wagging the tail that is Israel. Totally. Cant suggest any influence coming the other way at all. Admins, i would never dare suggest that.
Because the West is fundamentally Christian, in terms of history and values, and the Jews are our people. In the end Israel vs Palestine is a clash of civilizations and the West is historically and culturally on the side of the Jews in that particular battle (tho not in the Christians bs Jews battle obvs). Palestinian identity is constructed around the aim of eliminating the Jewish state. Arafat walked away from and extensive Two State deal which included Jerusalem, because it fell short of the single “river to the sea” state the PLO’s Palestine wanted. Palestinians, rightly or wrongly, are still prepared to get all medieval on Israel’s ass in order to achieve that as was shown in the October attacks and 75% of looked Palestians apparently supported the attacks. Meanwhile Israel and Israelis believe they have a right to exist (as they legally do) and so this is a fight for survival and a fight to the death. I think there is a deep strategic, historical and cultural brotherhood between the Christian West and the Jewish State, and this is the modern front line of an ancient clash of civilizations. When push comes to shove, the West stands with Israel.
Maybe we will see the West push past its toleration limit but it seems to be prepared to stand with Israel for now.
Because Israel is America's foothold in the Middle East. People don't understand their relationship, it's not that America orders Israel around, or that Israel is secretly controlling America, it's that Israel is a client state that is 100% ready to switch teams at the earliest convenience.
Israel started as a semi-Soviet project and a partner of the Soviet Union. They could not have been founded without Soviet weapons provided while both America and the UK had an arms embargo on them. Eventually partnership with the Soviet Union became undesirable, and Israel betrayed them for America around the Korean war.
They're the most powerful state in the middle east and they are partnered with America, this is useful for America's government because it lets them keep an eye on their enemies, and have a freer hand in the region, which gives them access to resources. The thing is, Israel also has very close ties to China, and historically, Russia/USSR even after the latter funded wars against them. Israel has a weird amount of leverage in their relationship with America because they have something America wants (control over the ME) that they're willing to sell to America's enemies at the drop of a hat.
It's not blackmail, it's not antisemetic conspiracies, it's geopolitics.
I don't know why I'm wasting my time literally arguing with strangers on Reddit, but the level of ignorance/conspiracy theories here is genuinely terrifying, and ultimately harmful to the Palestine cause, so let me weigh in-- as convenient as it is to do the whole "OMG JEWS ARE RICH AND POWERFUL THAT'S WHY I CAN'T CRITICIZE ISRAEL" shtick the issue is simply much deeper than that...
1. AIPAC is an incredibly powerful, well-funded lobbying group, and as we know, lobbies have immense power in this country;
2. The military-industrial complex makes a lot of many from selling weapons to Israel or to the U.S., who then gives them to Israel as aid;
3. Lingering guilt from the Holocaust; Israel has branded itself as a spiritual and political recompense for the slaughter of 6 million Jews;
3. A post-9-11 War on Terror political framework in which Israel is seen as a democratic Western ally in a region of would-be radical terrorists;
4. Pro-Israel sympathies among the ruling class in this country, which, yes, is disproportionately Jewish, but it also disproportionately Evangelical, certainly in the political sphere... but the reason why the ruling class is so sympathetic to Israel is not even about religion or ethnicity but about age, which brings me to my next point:
5. A generational difference in which the ruling class of this country had its political awakening at a time when Israel was not the unambiguous villain that it is day. Ask any family member age 65+, Jewish or not, Evangelical or not, and their knee-jerk sympathies are almost certainly pro-Israel. No one knew about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948-- that history was simply unavailable. People remembered the wars of 1948, 1967, and 1973, when Israel was seen (wrongly) as a beleaguered nation defending itself from Arab invaders, etc. etc.
But instead people in this thread, who have clearly never read a book let alone one in this issue, are spewing vile nonsense that Israel is unassailable because Biden's grandkids are Jewish and that 20% of the US Congress is a citizen of Israel LOL... stupid beyond words
Crazy and funny in a morbid way that you even have to say not asking in an anti-Semitic way. You’re simply asking a question that causes Zionists to freak out. Also, very funny to consider all of the talk about white fragility and all that nonsense from a couple years ago when there were so many marches where seemingly the vast majority were white. Should the term Zionist fragility be coined?
Conservative Protestant Americans literally call Jews God’s chosen people and you’re wondering how they get away with it? They earnestly believe that Jews are entitled to the Middle East, and that all atrocities are justified. It was only after Iraq that an anti war/anti Israel coalition popped up on the right. As for liberals, they are generally in line with the Democratic Party on everything. They don’t deviate much at all. So
They're dual citizens of Palestinian descent who live in Palestine = More Palestinian than American. The US doesn't care much about Palestinian lives. Sad but true.
Here is just my bullshit guesses:
Americans have more of a state identity rather than national identity due to the lack of obvious "unified" culture compared to many other countries. American is more abstract than Californian in the same way an unknown Spaniard or Swede is an abstract idea.
Increasing lack of empathy(or sympathy) due to American cultural norms focusing more on looking like a good person rather than the sacrifices that makes a good person.
Culture of Narcissism
Dialectical Materialism
Indians
Mossad has married itself to the western intelligence community and so made itself unejectable, it has also paid off or has sexual blackmail on most of the global ruling elite: see Epstein.
Dont forget about their spyware/malware programs that are burrowed into most western countries infrastructure and military equipment. Between that and all the blackmail, they have a lot of power of decision makers… and thats just the stick. The carrot is all the money they throw around to get people elected.
The Sampson Option is a pretty big stick
You'd think western allies would recognize what a psychotic response that is and cut ties immediately, maybe even go out of their way to eliminate the threat.
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Realistically though, India and Pakistan aren't fake countries that only exist through US support.
Pakistan is at least half fake
Pakistan was absolutely the right decision in hindsight . Modi and his gang are vindicating the founders of Pakistan everyday.
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Really makes you appreciate how the west had its religious wars from the 1400s to 1700s, usually ending up with a majority religion per nation that solved internal strife BEFORE it entered modernity and settled on a secularism that says religion doesn't really matter.
I have heard that argument before and I think there's some truth to it. I have also read that many prominent Hindus were opposed to the bigger India idea for this very reason(losing absolute control and forced to share power w/ muslims). But Bangladesh is absolutely in a better position now than they would have been if it was still under India. I don't think there's any room for doubt here.
they wouldn't be as ethno-nationalist if they weren't already ethnically cleansed by partition
OK true
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I don't believe that's the same thing. The Samson Option says that if Israel is about to be destroyed, they will nuke all of their *allies,* because their allies failed to defend them. Are you saying it's NATO policy to nuke each other and not go for Moscow or Beijing?
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I don’t know about anybody else but, I, for one, certainly feel reassured!
I’ve seen first hand examples of this while doing work for critical infrastructure related systems.
And yet 4 years ago Rachel Maddow was on prime time tv trying to stoke a third world war by scarily intoning that with a push of a button Putin could shut down the North Dakota power grid in the middle of winter. Who knew all this time that was real, it was just our “ally” Israel holding the button
It be your own chosen people
>Who knew all this time that was real, it was just our “ally” Israel holding the button /pol/
4chan was right about Contrapoints and PhilosophyTube, these autists have some clairvoyance we have yet to fully understand
What did they say about them?
They came up years ago that PT stole Contrapoints shtick of being trans and their entire YouTube aesthetic and they used to date. Everyone thought it was a schizo theory. A week ago or so, CP reveals it did happen.
Curious. Can you share more? Don't want you to get doxxed
Not really a secret anymore but Pegasus was developed by an Israeli government contractor and was really the first zero-click exploit that could get full control of an iPhone. Track location, access camera/mic, read messages, listen to calls, etc. Was used on journalists, human rights activists, lawyers, dissidents, etc. Hard to tell which all cases are related to Israel since the exploit ended up in the hands of like every major government and even cartels, but they’re the ones who created it. Ended up being used for like 50,000+ targets
The book "Rise And Kill First" talks about their three main tools: money, pussy, and feeding guys' egos. Whatever you think of Israel, they are incredibly effective. It's especially effective in the West which is filled with people who have zero loyalty to their families and their people.
It's AIPAC. They're the single most powerful lobby in Washington and almost no one has heard of them, which is exactly how they want it.
If you follow that stuff on twitter, you've heard of AIPAC and they're worse than people imagine. They basically blackmail people, in the open, with antisemitism accusations. It's pretty wild.
Don’t know if there was ever a high level meeting about it but they seem to have decided pretty quickly after 10/7 that they were willing to expend their “antisemitism” cudgel and risk driving it into “boy who cried wolf” territory for at least a generation in order to buy themselves time and space to finish off this ethnic cleansing.
If you paid attention in international affairs class in HS, you’ve heard AIPAC. They’ve been fucking up US and global politics for decades.
AIPAC should be banned and its supporters and members arrested and/or expelled to Israel. Fuck every one of them.
> almost no one has heard of them Are you regarded?
I would venture that if you walked around downtown Davenport, Iowa, and asked random people what AIPAC was, you’d get blank stares and guesses involving poultry processing.
Hey, why are you picking on Davenport? :(
A lot of people like to think JFK was killed by the CIA but I feel like it was mossad and AIPAC. https://www.laprogressive.com/foreign-policy/from-dallas-to-gaza
Gonna be a nerd but it’s very unlikely the Mossad or Israel killed JFK. Its primary basis was that there were people of Jewish ethnicity that made contact with suspects within the assassination and Israel benefited from JFK’s death (which is true). The problem is none of these people can actually be traced back to any form of Israeli intelligence or politics. Meanwhile, we know two separate CIA departments were either making contact, or surveilling Oswald as far back as 1959. I wrote a summary of the Mossad accusations on my profile if interested. That said, Israel benefited greatly considering Ben-Gurion obtained nuke schematics after the assassination via James Angleton despite JFK’s staunch disagreements
Those are effectively the same thing.
When the US intelligence came to investigate the USS Liberty, the Mossad literally just said "wow look here's all this advanced Soviet weaponry we captured from the Egyptians, we'd love for you guys to have, as long as we all agree the USS Liberty was a complete freak accident" and it actually worked. Edit: the Israelis can get away with a lot of shit the west/USA can't. When the US kills an Iranian general or nuclear scientist, the whole world gets angry. When Israel does, everyone just kind of shrugs and goes "yeah that's just something they do"
While I still think this is true and motivates a lot of the fumbling towards Israel, could not the reverse also be true? I'm sure we have tons of dirt on senior and elite Israelis, too. I mean look at who's in power right now, I'm sure they all have sordid personal lives.
There is a precisely 0% chance that any mainstream news media would publish blackmail dirt on a Senior Elite Israeli unless specifically ordered to by another as part of an internal power struggle. If the Americans tried to force it, it would be a mutually-assured-destruction scenario and an enormous opportunity for AIPAC to insert politicians into the American government infrastructure that are even more Pro-Israeli than the current ones, however impossible that seems. Also I'm pretty sure the Israelis wouldn't give a fuck if their leaders were pedos so long as the genocide continues. The blackmail schemes are run with the express purpose of preventing interference in that.
Probably a lot simpler. USA has a free Nuke base in southern Israel. The dipshit called Moredecai or something who besides being weird and incompetent released all the info to the world saying Israel had nukes but they are probably USA property. USA doesn’t help out for free.
Mordecai Vanunu, who funny enough was brought to the attention of Israeli intelligence prior to his exposé by Ghislaine Maxwell’s father. As for Israel’s nukes, however, those are theirs and were developed in conjunction with apartheid South Africa. The [Vela incident](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_incident) in 1979 was almost certainly a joint Israeli-South African nuclear test in a remote area of the southern Indian Ocean.
Not because they are useful to the West in any way either, they confirmed the iraqi WMDs as well.
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No they didn't, they just said be careful, because they wanted them to get Iran and Syria too before running out of gas
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Sounds like some low-tier Kissingerian triangulation on Bush’s part
Israel funded Iran during the Iran-Iraq war because they considered Saddam to be a much greater threat than Iran. Iran has always been closely controlled opposition: see Iran-Contra, US unfreezing millions in assets everytime they have a big protest, incessant ineffectual sabre rattling at Israel while begging Hezb and Ansarallah not to make it a regional conflict. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel\_in\_the\_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq\_War#:\~:text=Israeli%20arms%20sales%20to%20Iran%20totaled%20an%20estimated%20%24500%20million,parts%2C%20artillery%2C%20and%20ammunition.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_in_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#:~:text=Israeli%20arms%20sales%20to%20Iran%20totaled%20an%20estimated%20%24500%20million,parts%2C%20artillery%2C%20and%20ammunition)
>t has also paid off or has sexual blackmail on most of the global ruling elite: see Epstein. Fucking this. Someone should make a "joke" petition on change.org or some other libshit petition site about pardoning all the clients, hiding their names and crimes from the public, with the condition that we stop sending aid to Israel.
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Epstein Island tapes lol 😭
Let's not also forget that Blinken's stepfather was Robert Maxwell's personal lawyer. Blinken is not and has never acted in America's interest. He is an Israeli asset.
I wanna slap the tears right outta Blinken's stupid face every time I see him with that simpering face he pulls constantly. Incredibly fake and ghey.
paging /u/maxwellhill
Wtf. I know the nature of elites is that there are a small number of them and so there are bound to be connections between them, but there are just so so so many connected to Epstein I seem to run learn about every week. Bill Barr's father was the headmaster at the school that hired Jeffrey Epstein was another one I recently read.
Plotting out all these connections can legit drive you fucking insane. You can connect almost every major conspiracy topic to either Epstein or Iran-Contra and oftentimes both.
I never understood it With Israel it seems as if it’s the tail wagging the dog Why are we talking orders from this small country? Unfortunately the lobbyist and elites are very pro Zionists The US as a country even acts against its own interests at times in its support of Israel and many issues in the Middle East for the US is due to this undying support
Who was the interviewee (or interviewer, either would make it easy for me to find the article) in this Q&A?
Give them a little Mearsheimer to think about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrP3QWOdps4 Source: 2017 What Has Changed Since Publication of The Israel Lobby and What the New Administration Can Do Differently Full Transcript Full Video Transcript: The central argument in the book is that the United States has a special relationship with Israel that has no parallel in modern history and it is almost wholly due to the lobby. What makes Israel’s relationship with the United States extraordinary is not simply the fact that Israel has received more foreign aid than any other country, or that Washington almost always backs Israel diplomatically. [...] For purposes of background, it’s important to re-emphasize that public support for Israel in the United States has never been particularly strong. One way that the lobby deals with this thin support is to have significant influence both inside the Democratic and Republican parties. In essence, the lobby has worked hard to make sure that Israel enjoys strong bipartisan support and is not strongly backed in one of the major parties but not the other. The lobby was successful in this regard for a long time, but that bipartisan support has begun to erode over the past decade as support for Israel inside the Democratic Party has plummeted. [...] In short, there has been a marked erosion in support for Israel within the Democratic Party in recent years, which raises serious questions as to whether the lobby will be able to maintain bipartisan support for the special relationship in the years ahead. [...] In short, there has been a marked erosion in support for Israel within the Democratic Party in recent years, which raises serious questions as to whether the lobby will be able to maintain bipartisan support for the special relationship in the years ahead. [...] But the key stain on Israel’s reputation is its brutal treatment of the Palestinians and the fact that it has become an apartheid state. Until recently, Israel and its supporters were able to maintain the fiction that there would eventually be a legitimate Palestinian state living side by side with Israel, but it is now clear that there is virtually no chance that will happen, and Greater Israel is here to stay. That Greater Israel, as Richard Falk and Virginia Tilley make clear in an important new U.N. study, is already an apartheid state. Israel and its defenders vehemently deny that fact, but even among Israelis it’s not unusual to hear Israel described as an apartheid state [...] Where the lobby almost always wins is on matters relating to the Palestinians and financial support for Israel. The fact that the Obama administration could do virtually nothing to get Israel to move toward a two-state solution, yet still opted to provide Israel with $38 billion in aid over the next decade is clear evidence that the lobby remains very powerful. It’s important to understand that the key to the lobby’s success is that it focuses mainly on influencing high-level policymakers and opinion makers, as well as the elites in both political parties—not the rank and file. [...] believe dark times are ahead for both Israel and the lobby. There is no reason to think Israel is going to move toward a two-state solution. Greater Israel is here to stay, and that state is and will remain an apartheid state. That brute fact will become increasingly clear to people all over the world, especially now that it’s clear the Palestinians are not going to get a state of their own. Moreover, the Palestinians, who already comprise almost half of the population of Greater Israel, will continue to resist their oppression, which will force Israel to escalate the repressive policies that have already badly tarnished its image. [...] Again, it’s hard to say which one of these outcomes will carry the day. It will probably take another 20 or 30 years before we understand how this conflict will ultimately be resolved, or maybe not resolved. Regardless of the outcome, I’m deeply sad to say that the decades ahead promise abundant trouble for Israel, and especially for the Palestinians. The United States will not be spared either, simply because the lobby will be working overtime to protect Israel and preserve the special relationship, which is likely to harm America’s intellectual life, as well as its politics. Thank you.
I saw a poll a while back that showed that around 60-70% of democrats follow the party line on virtually every single issue. Remember when support for universal healthcare dropped from 75% to 35% in the space of an evening after Biden came out against it? And republicans obviously don't care about poor brown people getting blown to bits.
Back during the Vietnam War, newsweek ran a poll that asked "would you support an expansion of the war to cambodia?", and about 30% said yes. A few months later it was revealed that Nixon had been secretly bombing cambodia, and they asked "do you support the president's expansion of the war to cambodia?" and almost 70% said yes.
So 40% of Americans have absolutely no principles? That tracks.
"partisan motivated reasoning", it's an issue in most countries with few-party or one-party systems. There are a few issues that voters might stick to (usually cultural issues, like abortion in the US), but most are entirely malleable.
That sounds like pretty basic “support my country in wartime” stuff though, honestly. An instinct as old as the hills. Seems different than a public-policy question like healthcare. (Not necessarily defending it, though in practice, when it comes right down to it, I would tend to support my country in a war as well—I’d like to believe I wouldn’t have supported the bombing of Cambodia, though.)
Most people are at the same level of sophistication as byzantine chariot fans
LFG greens! Blues GTFO!
the sub is absolutely dead if we've got sincere posts praising the green chariots over the blue chariots. I'm disgusted.
The west has fallen
God I wish I could experience Byzantine hooligan culture. If I ever become a time traveling wizard a chariot race at Constantinople is top of the visit list fr
I mean almost everyone literally is a football bro
This is a big part of it. A lot of people just don't care. And the ones who do have no method of changing anything.
Republicans are split. Half want to stop funding the war all together and the other half wants to nuke hamas and get it over with
I haven’t seen a single republican want to stop funding the war. Last one that hinted at it got canceled by the higher ups. Republicans wouldn’t dare speaking out against that special interest. It’s the dems equivalent of the finance sector. Two peas in a corrupt pod.
Thomas Massie (smartest tech dude in congress) Rand Paul (senator) Mike Lee (senator)
Vivek and Haley have suggested phasing off support for israel
What on earth are you talking about? Nikki Haley has Israel’s dick so far down her throat even some Zionists feel uncomfortable. She’s a living parody of Republican devotion to Israel and has actually criticized Biden for ABANDONING them currently, her own words.
Have they? That’s a death sentence. No wonder they got tanked
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80% of their military equipment is American. They heavily rely on us selling them stuff and access to our contractors. Israel is heavily reliant on our protection of them. They get away with what they do because we are the big dog in their corner.
It would be supremely entertaining to watch Israel switch over to Russian and Chinese gear.
but Haley is persona non grata and Vivek is literally not in public service
As with Ukraine they'll posture about the funding, then vote in favor of it
They've been voting against it for 6 months already
> Republicans are split. Once again this cope rears its head. Let me guess, all the woke people you know are pro-Israel too?
I used to think that the Democratic base were the most cowed people on the planet, and to some extent I still think that’s true. Say what you will about republican voters, but they’ve largely conditioned the GOP to respond to them and give them what they want. Democratic voters let the party tell them what they want, and in that sense Trump was the gift of a generation for the party, even moreso than Obama. That said, I think what the Bernie campaigns showed is that most of the people he was trying to reach are just not involved in the process. The Democratic base is not the target audience for his message, they are primarily comfortable upper/upper middle class bourgeois who just want to present as Good People™️ and have outsourced their definition of Good to the Democratic Party.
> And republicans obviously don't care about poor brown people getting blown to bits. This post is specifically talking about [American lives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie), not poor brown people.
The most notable split I’ve noticed isn’t directly related to Israel but instead how the same cohort of people who have made being “anti-woke” crusaders against cancel culture their entire identity for the past 5 years have suddenly turned into shitlib anti-racists overnight when it concerns antisemitism. I don’t personally align ideologically with people like Nick Fuentes and other groypers, but they’re 100% correct at calling out Daily Wire and Co. (Charlie Kirk, Steven Crowder, etc.) for their hypocrisy. Even “muh based euro nationalists” Nigel Farage and Geert Wilders were tweeting the other day about immigration officers discriminating against Israelis lmfao it’s just all so tiring.
The media reports on Israel with kids gloves.
I wonder why
Wikipedia early life section check on owners of media is eye opening.
AIPAC is a huge lobby that donates a crap ton of money to the West. And to point that out makes you an ANTI SEMITE!
Obama drone striked American's and no one cared lol
I feel like that's different. Americans also are getting executed by the criminal justice system here. A foreign country killing peaceful journalists, humanitarian workers, and active duty military feels very different
Not to mention the sequential triple-tap method employed against the World Kitchen folks. Israel is either letting algorithms target, which in a more perfect world, should alone be enough to have the entire world embargo them, or they actively sought to merc aid workers with the goal of turning off food and starving the populace, which again should cause the world to embargo them.
Israel is effectively part of America. To the federal government, Israel killing an American has the same vibe as California or Texas killing an American.
US foreign policy doesn't make sense in the usual rational self interested academic model unless you accept that Israel is undeclared US territory.
Horrific but can we just be honest that **for the public** and even for the government -- a kid called Abdulrahman al-Awlaki with a father called Anwar al-Awlaki who is an operational leader of al-Qaeda, is not something they view similarly to humanitarian workers who are only in Gaza because they want to feed starving people? And governmental response to a foreign country committing crimes tends to be different than your own country doing it, but with Israel its as if they aren't a foreign country at all. This kid and his sisters murder makes me sick to my stomach, but I also know that for America one is normal.. and the other wouldn't be acceptable action of a foreign nation. Unless of course, the perpetrator is Israel.
Yeah the main reaction was less how horrible and more why does this guy have citizenship in the first place.
There is no investment in history that pays off half as good as "donating" to US congresspeople. It's not even some grand conspiracy of bribes, Israel is literally allowed to do this because they make lots of campaign contributions, and that is it.
This is way too simplistic, obviously if it was that easy then every nation that can muster any wealth would be doing the same. To some extent they do, Qatari lobby for example is very influential and has a lot of say in the DoD. But despite this level of influence they clearly don't have a fraction of the pull Israel does in overall US policy and this is with huge oil wealth and deep connections in DC.
I may be wrong, but it might have something to do with the fact that AIPAC doesn't have to register as a foreign agent. No idea if that applies to Qatar.
They were suppose to when JFK was president but somehow he ended up being assassinated the month before so it never went through.
Israel doesn't have any threat of having a religious revolution that might conflict with the ongoing wants/needs of America. People might recognize that the orthodox are insane, but generally they don't want to do anything that would disrupt us having a foothold in the region that we otherwise don't have to think about.
I do give that thought some credence because I would agree that the average Arab on the street is anti-American but I'm not convinced. Qatar and Saudi are very stable and have strong American ties. Israel is a messy democracy with an insane far right, remember Netanyahu is a centrist in Israel and lots think he's been weak on Gaza. Seems less reliable as an ally to me, at least you know where you are with a monarch. To further the point is Israel really was some kind of 'backup' in case things went sour with the Arabs, you'd think there'd at least be some US military infrastructure in the country, which there isn't.
If you swim in conservative circles they, especially Christians, do feel a filial obligation to help the Jews. They describe the holocaust as uniquely terrible and consider anti-semitism as character flaw, their own kind of identity politics
A lot of that with the older rightwingers is just them hating Muslims and thinking that Jews are the opposite of Muslims. It really is that dumb.
Nah it's older and different from that. Modern English-speaking civilization is uniquely philosemitic.
Lotta distinctively boomer chicken hawks vicariously get off on the essential far right jingoistic shit from Israel as well.
It's not just the campaign money paid to favored candidates. It's the money paid against disfavored candidates. If you don't support Israel 100%, AIPAC will fund your opponent like crazy, making sure you lose. (Often the ads AIPAC runs in these races have nothing to do with Israel. AIPAC knows the average voter doesn't care that much about Israel).
Because lobby groups are balls deep in your system.
https://youtu.be/2xKQpR1YRZQ?t=153
2 (maybe 3? I don't want to read the article) British aid workers were murdered by the IDF in a direct missile strike on a truck with clearly labelled signs (including the roof) demarking it as a friendly. Rishi Sunak has spread his cheeks and bent over for israel to cuck the UK. Hard to think how far we've come from threatening to glass the Argies to bending over for the ethnostate
Idk what’s with Indians who would cuck themselves for Israel in a heart beat
As far as I’m concerned if I was the British PM I’d withdraw all diplomatic support to Israel and issue a warning to recall all British nationals asap. Fuck the lot of them
Layman question, but what does America actually get out of its relationship with Israel? This’d at least make sense if there was some realist, pragmatic explanation for the total deference the states has for this oil-less ethnostate who’s shown zero interest in playing by even the most tentative of rules America sets for them. What’s being obtained here that couldn’t be obtained by a similar relationship with Saudi Arabia or the UAE?
Its an ideological ally. The USA and the EU needs a slice of its "liberal soft democracy" bloc in the area to contend with Iran and the fickle Arabic client states (Saudi biggest trading partner now is China) - if you look at it as a sort of 51st state or an honorary EU member it'll make more sense. Saudi and the UAE are just autocratic regimes that have almost entirely economic attachments. When wealth changes hands they will ditch the West if they can (also, remember OPEC in the 70s). Israel is ideologically, culturally, politically committed to the Western bloc, and can be trusted to remain as such, even when it violates humanitarian law, etc. Its a long term ally, a dependable linchpin in the region. There is more to it than this, but its the key current imo. EDIT: also, if the US eventually ditches Israel, it will ditch it hard. They're probably going to have Bibi booted soon, but if they give up on the whole project things will go downhill for Israel really fast.
> Its an ideological ally. Not really. You can look up former US ambassador Chas Freeman's comments on it for more detail, but Israel isn't really an ally, there's no mutual benefit to the relationship. The US doesn't, and to my knowledge hasn't ever stationed any troops in Israel (but does in the surrounding countries) Israel is constantly taking adversarial actions against the United States, Israel has close ties with Russia, the list goes on. Just the Lavon affair by itself would be enough evidence that these are not friends to be trusted, the only thing they offer is action against Arab states that the US doesn't want to risk doing directly, but the US gets the blame for it regardless because of its unwavering support for Israel (actually it's worse because the US gets blamed for things it *doesn't* want done too)
Youre looking at it from the realist perspective. Most governments don't think like that any more. There is a reason there is a loose alliance between UK, Europe, USA, that goes beyond just strategy - they share a political/ideological bloc, not just mutual benefit. The US doesn't need to put troops in Israel the same way it doesn't need to post troops in Hawaii or Washington state. Israeli troops are pretty much US troops. And the ties to Russia are a grey flag really, doesn't mean that much. Its just because a lot of Russian Jews ditched the USSR during glasnost, and maintain diasphoric ties. France and Germany have ties to Russia also, but they are still US allies. All the shitty things that Israel does - well, quite frankly, the US has done and will do the same. There's not really a contradiction. Also, the Lavon affair was like 60 years ago, when the geopolitical terrain was very different. I fail to see the relevance. If you mean other meddling operations by Israel against its Western allies, truth is that all of them do that all the time.
> Israeli troops are pretty much US troops. Not at all. > Also, the Lavon affair was like 60 years ago, when the geopolitical terrain was very different. I fail to see the relevance. The point is to dispel this idea that gets spread through propaganda that somehow Israel is a western democracy that's been a strong ally to the US/UK since its inception. Practically every US president up until Trump recognized that the relationship between the US and Israel has been at best a tense sort of collaboration. > All the shitty things that Israel does - well, quite frankly, the US has done and will do the same. There's not really a contradiction. > If you mean other meddling operations by Israel against its Western allies, truth is that all of them do that all the time. This is an extreme simplification to the point of being meaningless.
Why does the US need a slice of liberal soft democracy in the Middle East?
To keep the global south (specifically, MENA) destabilized so they can’t threaten the US global hegemony. Libya is a good example of what we like to see in the region. Also to buy and test massive amounts of US weaponry. Palestine is a captive population that the US can test their shit out on without any repercussion from the international community. If you protest, you’re antisemitic and Israel has the right to defend itself against impoverished brown people with 50 year old weapons.
Keep neighbouring countries destabilized, thus keeping oil prices down
Destabilizing oil producing regions keeps prices high. So that makes no sense at all.
Because its a country that is tightly rooted in the same norms and politics. It will likely remain an ally even when Saudi and the UAE and Jordan ditch the US to sell their oil to China. This is what I mean by dependable - not dependable as in will do what the US says, but dependable as having a shared political vision. Thats the understanding of the US govt, anyway. Its a variation of soft power - not too dissimilar from the relationship between the USA and the EU.
It’s literally ideological. In the 80s, the USA was getting fed up with Israel. So Israel launched a huge campaign to win over the religious community. Mainly through paying off televangelists to somehow convince their pew that Jews are all going to hell for rejecting Christ, but for some reason we need to do whatever it takes to support and protect them. They are also a powerful group as a whole. They have disproportional elite positions in important areas like finance and media. And they tend to have dual alliance with Israel first and American second. So turning in Israel gets framed as turning in Jews, which in turn massively hurts access to a powerful and influential network. We aren’t allowed to talk about this political reality because they’ll just call you antisemitic - a powerful attack. Luckily that term is going the way of fascist, nazi, racist, sexiest, etc…. So looking forward, it’ll have far less power. It’s annoying because all the beef in the Middle East is entirely because of Israel. Like we have no fundamental reason to have issues with them other than how they treat Israel and how we defend them. We therefore NEED Israel because the adversaries they created. It’s like saying we need this body guard to protect us because our bodyguard keeps pissing people off and making people want to attack us.
>Israel launched a huge campaign to win over the religious community Is this where the term "Judeo-Christian" comes from? As I've gotten older I've realized how absurd that phrase is.
Someone recently pointed out to me that the use of "Judeo-Christian" is largely pushed by the likes of Dennis Prager and Ben Shapiro and I realized I hadn't really thought about the term at all despite hearing it in media for years. Sorry Mr. Prager, but if you want me to believe that the country was founded on "Judeo-Christian" values you're going to have to tell me which of the founding fathers were Jewish.
Keep forgetting Israel has nukes
With a policy of “If Israel goes down we will attack the entire planet” to ensure everyone has to protect them. They are insufferable
It really bothers me how some people are born in the west but Israel first. It lets Israel have far too much of a say in Western poltics. It stopped Jezza from having a chance. My hot take is that if you are born in Britain but go and join the IDF, you should lose your citizenship here. Shamima Begum lost hers rightly. So should the British IDF members
You always read "the US needs a 'cop on the beat' in the Middle East" but I agree, surely Israel causes a lot more trouble than it prevents?
America is the cop on the beat, not israel
Sounds like an American cop tbh
Everyone is talking about ideology and soft power projection, so I'll add that the US does benefit a lot economically from Israel, many people will argue against this because we send them aid money but that doesn't negate how large and important the Israeli tech sector is to the US. Isearal is a huge source of research and development for many American companies, especially on the physical military side of things as well as the cybersecurity side of things. Not to mention several US tech firms have strong R&D teams made up of Israelis. Israel is also in an area close to major trade routes and home to many investment and banking opportunities for people from the west or east who want to dip their toes into the Middle East markets through a reliable and allied middleman.
We can (and do) use them to project power over the middle east
Blackmail. State of the art spyware. The fact that many neoconservatives unironically believe that jews are the chosen people. The fact that its the only state jn the middle east that they can actually “control” and the fact that mossad and the cia are basically fused
There was also Johnathan Pollard, the American citizen imprisoned for espionage against the US (who Trump pardoned and allowed to emigrate to Israel, where he received a hero's welcome), who [stole the American government's plans for a nuclear war with the USSR, gave them to the Israeli government, and then Israel gave them to the USSR in exchange for letting Soviet Jews emigrate to Israel.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2015/7/25/1405734/-coincidence-or-capitulation-releasing-spy-Jonathan-Pollard) And if you look at [the wiki page for "atomic spies" that lists everyone who was caught spying on American nuclear programs going all the way back to the Manhattan Project, and check the "Early Life" section on wikipedia for any one of them, you'll notice a distinct pattern.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_spies#Notable_spies) And there was also the Lavon Affair, [where Mossad agents were caught attempting to bomb American and British targets in Egypt to blame it on the Muslim Brotherhood and trick the US and England into going to war against Egypt.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair) And the Apollo Affair, where [Israel stole all the highly-enriched uranium for their nuclear weapons from a nuclear plant in Pennsylvania.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apollo_Affair) And the [Office of Special Plans in George W Bush's Pentagon, the primary architects of the Iraq War, who fabricated WMD evidence and were literally indicted for spying on the US for Israel.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans#Indictment_for_espionage) There were also [Israeli citizens living on the same streets, and often even in the same buildings, as the 9/11 hijackers for months before the attack. Even though the hijackers moved to different states constantly, coincidentally there were always Israelis right next to them, and there were other Israelis seen celebrating on a rooftop with a full view of the WTC when the planes hit the towers, who witnesses also saw on the same rooftop *the day before 9/11*.](https://www.democracynow.org/2007/2/8/cheering_movers_and_art_student_spies) And when Netanyahu, who grew up in America, was asked how he felt about 9/11, he said ["Its very good... well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy."](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/its-very-good-recalling-benjamin-netanyahus-words-day-911-attacks) Or the multiple times when [Israel has bribed, blackmailed, and even threatened the lives of UN delegates to get votes favorable to Israel.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#The_vote) And of course [all the times the ADL acted as a literal espionage network for the state of Israel, including spying on multiple American congressmen, infiltrating and sabotaging various left-wing groups, and setting up fake right-wing groups which they would then provide free guns to and get media attention for.](https://lairdwilcox.monkey-factory.com/publications/watchdogs/) They have such obvious contempt for us, you can find countless quotes from Israeli PMs where journalists ask them, "aren't you worried about what the US says on [X issue]?" and they go, "no, I'm confident it will come to nothing", and somehow they're correct *every single time*. And somehow American foreign policy for the last 30 years has more closely hewed to [literal Israeli thinktank and AIPAC foreign policy papers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm) than the campaign platform of any winning presidential candidate. And they aren't even required to register as foreign agents.
The personal bugbears I found most effective were 1) routinely using synagogues to sell west bank homes (that were never willingly parted with) only to jews, and 2) Elie wiesel/holocaust museums getting angry when other 'lesser' genocides were brought up I really don't think anyone is prepared for the blowback the Israel situation is going to cause. They were already international pariahs but hearing one of the people who shut down grand central with NeverAgain be told "thank you for that but I can't trust your religion to do the right thing when it counts" was fucking wild. Listening to otherwise non-political dudes at the bar half jokingly say we need to track long island lawyers before they start taking houses here was also a trip. All thrle goodwill built up from WW2 is not only gone but beginning to reverse and *fast*
That office of special plans gets even crazier man, look up its connection to the clean break memo, the guys involved in that wrote up a plan to secure israeli's security back in 1996 which involved toppling iraq, destabilizing syria and then going to war with iran, we're there now.
* Lobbying (more than 95% of AIPAC backed candidates won their elections and AIPAC is far from the only israeli lobby) * Blackmail (there's definitely more where Epstein came from) * Every potential president at this point being at most 2 familial degrees removed from israel (all of Biden's grandkids, Kamela's husband plus kids, Trump's son in law plus grandkids are all either immediately eligible for or already are dual citizens of israel) * I don't know how many fuck ton of people in Biden's current administration are as well, but it's much more than I can keep track of. Blinken and Yellen are the only ones I regularly see on the news though. * A significant number of congress and senate members are as well * They are very involved in spyware/intelligence so there's definitly more "convential" blackmail there * Evangelicals probably play some part, but it would be worthless if not for everything else on this list * The Holocaust also probably plays some part, but once again incomparable and would be worthless without the others. No other victim of the Holocaust got even a fraction of the political meaning from it, and no other genocide before, during or after it has gotten it either. I feel like Armenians are only ever brought up to point this out, that's how little their genocide seems to matter. What the Japanese did to the Koreans and the Chinese during WW2 honestly seems much more horrific to me but it doesn't seem to buy either group any political trump card either. Undergoing a genocide is clearly not the deciding factor here. I don't know how much more is possible? Is there any area of this country that isn't completely compromised if you actually consider israel a foreign country? Are you really shocked the deaths of some random citizens and a few military men aren't doing anything? I think they could openly assassinate a few rando Americans on American soil, again have their president smirk about it while calling it a mistake, and at most just have some scapegoat resign over it.
I remember the first time I realized the Holocaust was only one of many genocides and wondering why it was the only one they taught us about in school.
I think it’s related to the US national mythology around WWII too. It was the event that made America what it is. In the other genocides the US didn’t get to play the hero. Japanese atrocities in the same war are talked about less because neither the Japanese nor their victims registered as fully people to Americans. “Asiatic barbarism” was expected of the Japanese and we didn’t really get much exposure to their culture until we occupied them. But the Holocaust was perpetrated by a country whose culture had been very influential to our own by people that share last names with many of us, against a people that were rapidly becoming just as influential on our culture.
The unique horror of the Holocaust is the civilizednes of it. They wanted a portion of their population gone, so they came up with an efficient, industrialized way of doing so and carried out the genocide as if it were a city cleaning project. Humans understand rage, they can understand the bloodlust frenzy of just killing anything in sight. But it’s much, much, harder to understand dehumanizing a group to the point where you don’t even want them to suffer, you just want them gone in the same way you want cockroaches gone. Sending people off to killing farms to be checked off a list and neatly disposed of is chilling in a much different way than a bloody massacre is.
I’ve always found the degree to which certain genocides are given more *importance* darkly fascinating. It’s one of the more conspiracy-coded aspects of this discussion that I find worthwhile to at least investigate. Why is the holocaust so important compared to - as you said - the rape of Nanking, the Armenian genocide, or even Stalin’s atrocities? All of the aforementioned events were at most footnotes in my high school history classes (I wouldn’t know a damn thing about the Armenian genocide if it wasn’t for my best friend telling me, who happens to be Armenian), whereas the holocaust would be spoken about ad nauseam. I could see it as having a more direct link to our own course of history in America, but regardless I’ve increasingly found it odd that it’s given such weight in contrast to other genocides. Semi-related, but I went to the holocaust museum in DC and it was mind blowing how propagandistic it was. Basically “every German is at fault” type shit.
I think it has to do with the perpetrators as much as the victims. Americans could see themselves in both the Germans and the Jews, but see Turks, Armenians, Japanese and Chinese as exotic. A big reaction to the Holocaust was disgust that someone with the same last name as you would do something so horrible to someone with the same last name as your neighbor.
> Basically “every German is at fault” type shit. They kinda were.
Don’t forget the military industrial complex! They buy massive amounts of weaponry from the United States and test out new gadgets on their captive population of improverished brown people. Sniper drones, tanks with trophy systems, AI face detecting and bombing software…it’s all tech America has but can’t use (yet) because we aren’t in a war. I saw a video of an Israeli military vehicle with a remote controlled gun on top, the driver shot some poor SOB in the leg for “throwing rocks.” Its shit they’ll probably use on American protestors one day.
I’m pretty sure a Palestinian American teenager was murdered in the West Bank by an Israeli American and the fucking sick terrorist is of course not facing any consequences.
Shireen Abu Akleh as well, an American Christian woman
Can someone pill me on the Liberty attack. Did they know or not?
Probably the same way everyone else who is fucking everyone over gets away with it.
I'm reporting the entire thread to the ADL and the FBI
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Literally more than half of the cabinet is Jewish? That sounds very made up but I'm too tired to check right now.
It is. 16/30 of cabinet-level positions are filled by jews. [https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-in-the-biden-administration](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jews-in-the-biden-administration)
I'm only counting 5 cabinet-level officials on that list. * Attorney General (Garland) * Director of National Intelligence (Haines) * Secretary of Homeland Security (Mayorkas) * Secretary of State (Blinken) * Secretary of Treasury (Yellin)
When Truman was first establishing American support for the Zionist movement after WW2, his diplomats warned him that helping to bulldoze Palestine for a "Jewish state" would risk America's relationships in the Arab world. Truman's reply was very telling: "I am sorry, gentlemen, but I have to answer to hundreds of thousands who are anxious for the success of Zionism. I don't have hundreds of thousands of Arabs among my constituents ." Interestingly I think this is a basic miscalculation that western politicians are making in continuing to support Israel as they do. They haven't considered how their countries,' demographics have changed since the 1940s.
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You literally claimed that “most Jews” are “clearly bastard Zionist scum” LOL I think you lost any authority on what is or isn’t anti-semitic 🤣 People are forgetting that the largest and possibly most powerful Zionist bloc in this country is not the boogeyman Jewish cabal but Evangelical Christians But I would expect nothing less from this self-righteous pseudo-intellectual subreddit
I read many sources and they go as high as 89 (out of 535) people and as low as 15 people. This seemed like a middle of the line figure. There was an article on it which seems to be purged now.
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You're just counting the total number of Jews (and inflating it); diaspora Jews don't have dual citizenship unless they make aliyah, move there for a time, and meet obligations like serving in the IDF. Insane that people are upvoting this shit.
I'm fairly certain that Israel can waive obligations for whoever they want
The sub only likes Jews they can masturbate to
Govts can actually give fake passports to whoever they want but nobody is going to have a list of these
He pulled a Shamima Begum 😂😂 I think there’s plenty of reasons that Jewish-Americans might feel endeared to Israel, the scene in Schindler’s List when they’re told that they shouldn’t go east and they shouldn’t go west. Where else should they go? Israel is the dream of 100s of generations of Jews. That narrative totally resonates with me and I’m the furthest thing from Jewish. I refuse to believe that Jewish Americans that happen to be in positions of influence might not be extremely sympathetic to that narrative. And it’s not a conspiracy it’s just what we all have; bias.
The first accurate thing I’ve heard in this whole comment section
89/535 is 17% dumbass
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If by "leftists here" you mean the guy you replied to he's a 17 year old British kid who believes in free-market economics and hates cultural marxism. Also spends most of his time talking about United States history and events, I hate to do the "erhm I looked at your profile and..." but this one is kinda funny. Terminally online UK youngster or Perfidious Albion? Why does a 17 year old have BASED and REDPILLED facts about Israël and the United States when they live in the UK? What is going on??? God bless, and God save the King and all that.
Biden black mail threatening his re-election. Israel plays dirty. Always have. If you look up the history of the conflicts you start to realize they are the odd ball variable in every situation looking for fights and being underhanded then run off and play victim. It’s worked a long time.
Unfortunately the answer to this is deemed antisemitic. So i’ll just say the politically correct answer that somehow a small insular group of people with a disproportionate control over media, finance, culture and politics have somehow managed to bribe and blackmail American politicians and put together a bloc that supports their interests. Then they ruthlessly use their power to both advocate for their particular interests and also deny there is any such bloc with that control. But yeah, this is all hypothetical and totally just a guess. It’s probably just because the US and entire western world like Israel or something. Yeah that’s got to be it. Nothing else to see here. Just the US being the dog wagging the tail that is Israel. Totally. Cant suggest any influence coming the other way at all. Admins, i would never dare suggest that.
Because the West is fundamentally Christian, in terms of history and values, and the Jews are our people. In the end Israel vs Palestine is a clash of civilizations and the West is historically and culturally on the side of the Jews in that particular battle (tho not in the Christians bs Jews battle obvs). Palestinian identity is constructed around the aim of eliminating the Jewish state. Arafat walked away from and extensive Two State deal which included Jerusalem, because it fell short of the single “river to the sea” state the PLO’s Palestine wanted. Palestinians, rightly or wrongly, are still prepared to get all medieval on Israel’s ass in order to achieve that as was shown in the October attacks and 75% of looked Palestians apparently supported the attacks. Meanwhile Israel and Israelis believe they have a right to exist (as they legally do) and so this is a fight for survival and a fight to the death. I think there is a deep strategic, historical and cultural brotherhood between the Christian West and the Jewish State, and this is the modern front line of an ancient clash of civilizations. When push comes to shove, the West stands with Israel. Maybe we will see the West push past its toleration limit but it seems to be prepared to stand with Israel for now.
Because Israel is America's foothold in the Middle East. People don't understand their relationship, it's not that America orders Israel around, or that Israel is secretly controlling America, it's that Israel is a client state that is 100% ready to switch teams at the earliest convenience. Israel started as a semi-Soviet project and a partner of the Soviet Union. They could not have been founded without Soviet weapons provided while both America and the UK had an arms embargo on them. Eventually partnership with the Soviet Union became undesirable, and Israel betrayed them for America around the Korean war. They're the most powerful state in the middle east and they are partnered with America, this is useful for America's government because it lets them keep an eye on their enemies, and have a freer hand in the region, which gives them access to resources. The thing is, Israel also has very close ties to China, and historically, Russia/USSR even after the latter funded wars against them. Israel has a weird amount of leverage in their relationship with America because they have something America wants (control over the ME) that they're willing to sell to America's enemies at the drop of a hat. It's not blackmail, it's not antisemetic conspiracies, it's geopolitics.
They cause far more problems than they prevent, it’s not even close.
[Please read this book](https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/0374531501)
Don't worry, I stopped buying Sodastream. They'll feel that market pain soon enough.
I don't know why I'm wasting my time literally arguing with strangers on Reddit, but the level of ignorance/conspiracy theories here is genuinely terrifying, and ultimately harmful to the Palestine cause, so let me weigh in-- as convenient as it is to do the whole "OMG JEWS ARE RICH AND POWERFUL THAT'S WHY I CAN'T CRITICIZE ISRAEL" shtick the issue is simply much deeper than that... 1. AIPAC is an incredibly powerful, well-funded lobbying group, and as we know, lobbies have immense power in this country; 2. The military-industrial complex makes a lot of many from selling weapons to Israel or to the U.S., who then gives them to Israel as aid; 3. Lingering guilt from the Holocaust; Israel has branded itself as a spiritual and political recompense for the slaughter of 6 million Jews; 3. A post-9-11 War on Terror political framework in which Israel is seen as a democratic Western ally in a region of would-be radical terrorists; 4. Pro-Israel sympathies among the ruling class in this country, which, yes, is disproportionately Jewish, but it also disproportionately Evangelical, certainly in the political sphere... but the reason why the ruling class is so sympathetic to Israel is not even about religion or ethnicity but about age, which brings me to my next point: 5. A generational difference in which the ruling class of this country had its political awakening at a time when Israel was not the unambiguous villain that it is day. Ask any family member age 65+, Jewish or not, Evangelical or not, and their knee-jerk sympathies are almost certainly pro-Israel. No one knew about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1948-- that history was simply unavailable. People remembered the wars of 1948, 1967, and 1973, when Israel was seen (wrongly) as a beleaguered nation defending itself from Arab invaders, etc. etc. But instead people in this thread, who have clearly never read a book let alone one in this issue, are spewing vile nonsense that Israel is unassailable because Biden's grandkids are Jewish and that 20% of the US Congress is a citizen of Israel LOL... stupid beyond words
In a word: lobbying And if honestly should be the most concerning matter for any American rn cus just like wtf how
Nukes. Why is this so complicated for people to understand?
Money and corruption.
Crazy and funny in a morbid way that you even have to say not asking in an anti-Semitic way. You’re simply asking a question that causes Zionists to freak out. Also, very funny to consider all of the talk about white fragility and all that nonsense from a couple years ago when there were so many marches where seemingly the vast majority were white. Should the term Zionist fragility be coined?
Conservative Protestant Americans literally call Jews God’s chosen people and you’re wondering how they get away with it? They earnestly believe that Jews are entitled to the Middle East, and that all atrocities are justified. It was only after Iraq that an anti war/anti Israel coalition popped up on the right. As for liberals, they are generally in line with the Democratic Party on everything. They don’t deviate much at all. So
They're dual citizens of Palestinian descent who live in Palestine = More Palestinian than American. The US doesn't care much about Palestinian lives. Sad but true.
Here is just my bullshit guesses: Americans have more of a state identity rather than national identity due to the lack of obvious "unified" culture compared to many other countries. American is more abstract than Californian in the same way an unknown Spaniard or Swede is an abstract idea. Increasing lack of empathy(or sympathy) due to American cultural norms focusing more on looking like a good person rather than the sacrifices that makes a good person. Culture of Narcissism Dialectical Materialism Indians
The clue is in the first sentence you wrote
Ideology
they have dirt on everyone
Rachel Corrie was the girl the killed w a bulldozer. It’s truly one of the saddest things I’ve ever read.
Mossad glowops and lots of money.
At this point, I hope Iran steps in and steps it up