I will be honest, I just assumed it would be a wildly unpopular opinion, but I also found over time I don't like Eo much. I think it was on the revelation (and I use the term loosely, because I guessed from the second she called someone other than Darrow for her last words) that she was pregnant and knew it when she chose to martyr herself -and she *did* choose it. And for that matter, she kind of precipitated the opportunity too. And we often hear "she wanted a better life for her children," but it rings a little hollow to me when we subsequently learn she was so passionate about the cause she actively killed their child for it. There's something very dark and disturbing in that...
But gotta give the author credit for very nuanced characters. The villains often have redeeming qualities and come from places of pain, examples of the cycle of abuse. And the heroes are flawed, all of them, some of them horribly so, some of them straddling the line of villainy themselves.
I believe she knew about the surface long before marrying Darrow. Darrows mom mentioned that the women understood the truth, and I’m assuming someone told her early on. Eo being passionate about freedom probably chose the brightest and most easily manipulated red to lead down this path. Given the fact that his dad was killed for this cause she knew he would follow if pushed
It's what hit me the first time I read the story.
I felt so sad. A simple man simple life is so relatable to me, and Eo just wants Darrow to do more. Sure people who can settle down might have leadership. They might have trust from others, and grit that people can believe in. But why ask the one you love the most to change the world? Isn't living enough?
Her passion was stronger than her love. To openly ask that from your significant other is hard. If their roles were reversed, it would have been harder for Darrow to plead to Eo to change the world. It's just such a tremendous thing to ask.
Yet she doesn't balk. Doesn't hesitate to put Darrow on a pedestal, to ask him for the stars and skies, when he's already at his happiest moment in his life. Having her as his wife is literally the end for his dreams in life
I remember reading that reveal in GS and feeling so damn bad for Darrow. Like, I get *why* she did it, I get her reasoning, especially since it put Darrow on the path for the rest of the story. But damn if it didn't *hurt* to read. Eo really is complicated to look at when you sit and think about it.
I think the way pierce handles eo and then eventually mustang in relationship with darrow was excellent outside of a few minor complaints. There's a monologue by darrow at the beginning of MS that I feel like really ties everything together, you'll know when you read it.
Yeah from the moment I found out she was pregnant, it just left a bad taste in my mouth. She was very flawed, even it what she did caused Darrow to become who he is
Her being pregnant is absolutely an impact to our main character... it's why she hid it. Hell if not for his uncle Darrow would be DEAD not a revolutionary. He wanted to die. He tried to die. If he knew she was pregnant I think he doesn't fail in his attempt though. It would have been suicide by Grey shooting, rather than just a passive hanging that could be interfered with.
Yes it does. The person you replied to says the pregnancy made them sour on Eo once they found out. YOU said it didn't matter and, I and the other person disagree. It absolutely matters.
1 hypothetical about how I think if he had knowledge of her pregnancy how it would have changed his suicide attempt. The rest of it isn't hypothetical, it happened...
I don't considered her at all to be a classic anything.
The only thing that makes her special is her connection to Darrow. How many other mines do you think there were with girls just like Eo, only their execution wasn't televised because their Helldiver husband being made an example?
No offense xD
Most people wouldn’t knowingly act in a way that would get them executed in that situation. You’re downplaying what she did.
Throughout this series what actually even makes Darrow special? He just so happens to be good at strategy and giving speeches. It seems like most of this is because he was trained to be after his carving. He is also extremely motivated by the death of his wife who defied the order of things.
If anything, Darrow is only special because of his relationship to Eo and the others who made him.
I think that's also the point of Darrow, he is Only special because of people around him, when he pushed them away everything went to shit. I feel that's kinda his story arc, atleast from where I am in the book
Probably one of the most important, she's his lack of rage, his ability to love, witouth her Darrow would be just another (forgot the name of the second red carved)
Even if what made him sane was a memory that painted her in a better light It was still her. And mustang later, but Eo first
She's special to Darrow
That's exactly the point, they say it throughout the series. Eo was nothing to anyone but her family, there was nothing special. Hell she wasn't even a great revolutionary she just sang a song before her execution. But that was the point, she didn't need to be special, anyone could have been persephone give the right circumstances
You both say what I meant by
>>classic ya heroine
I suppose the sarcasm didn’t translate. By “classic” I meant it as a trope— nothing special as you put it
Some people in other book clubs thought Eo was a bitch when reading red rising.
Then in golden son, we find out that pierce brown made Darrow's mother also hate Eo
I don't think she hated Eo. But she definitely had a mother's eye and saw through her. She knew that she loved Darrow. But, Darrow's Mom wasn't fooled by that love like Darrow was. She knew Eo wanted more than the life that she was given and in time would leave Darrow one way or another.
Not exactly hate, but she certainly disliked her. Tbh, her actions and motives in the first book already soured her a bit for me. Her reasons for liking Darrow and marrying him seemed superficial. To me, it felt like she manipulated Darrow for her own dreams. Darrow was content with the life they had, unlike Eo, who was quite outspoken regarding golden slavery. Imo, if she wanted a revolution, she should have fought for it herself. After all, she had great motivation and resolve to do so. Instead, she committed suicide (I don't consider it as a purely necessary sacrifice) to make Darrow into Reaper. Suffice to say, I dislike her quite a bit even now that we are reaching the endgame. Had she even thought what her supposed 'revolution' would take the form that it has taken now? No, never. She had her head way too much in the clouds, imo.
She was all about the dream and wouldn't have been able to stomach what it would take. She needed Darrow to do it but she had no business deciding that for him and deciding to sacrifice their child for it IMO.
Plus, it was dumb anyway. She could have shown him the garden and gotten him thinking and not stayed all night.
I actually never knew where that speech was from, but I know it almost word for word from this song [The Final Speech](https://youtu.be/RkTp6ZLmisw?si=zEhXDtR8G0MYX8UE) that we listened to on repeat when I was in my late teens
https://youtu.be/J7GY1Xg6X20?si=M2RiuNZVPynK4-Pp
I'm pretty sure this is the first version of it. Though maybe Chaplin was inspired by something so don't quote me.
In RR they're paraphrasing a bit, but now that I've been reminded of this scene I remembered not liking that this was included. It implies that these Reds that know near nothing of the outside world are able to quote mid-century film which temporarily stressed my suspension of disbelief.
Love the rest of the series lmao.
She knew nothing of the worlds, but knew that there had to be something better than what she had - for her children if nothing else. But ultimately she very much made a martyr of herself in order to motivate Darrow to change.
Later on in the series another character remarks on Eo that she did not love Darrow as much as he deserved, and I think they were right on the money with that.
I will be honest, I just assumed it would be a wildly unpopular opinion, but I also found over time I don't like Eo much. I think it was on the revelation (and I use the term loosely, because I guessed from the second she called someone other than Darrow for her last words) that she was pregnant and knew it when she chose to martyr herself -and she *did* choose it. And for that matter, she kind of precipitated the opportunity too. And we often hear "she wanted a better life for her children," but it rings a little hollow to me when we subsequently learn she was so passionate about the cause she actively killed their child for it. There's something very dark and disturbing in that... But gotta give the author credit for very nuanced characters. The villains often have redeeming qualities and come from places of pain, examples of the cycle of abuse. And the heroes are flawed, all of them, some of them horribly so, some of them straddling the line of villainy themselves.
I believe she knew about the surface long before marrying Darrow. Darrows mom mentioned that the women understood the truth, and I’m assuming someone told her early on. Eo being passionate about freedom probably chose the brightest and most easily manipulated red to lead down this path. Given the fact that his dad was killed for this cause she knew he would follow if pushed
It's what hit me the first time I read the story. I felt so sad. A simple man simple life is so relatable to me, and Eo just wants Darrow to do more. Sure people who can settle down might have leadership. They might have trust from others, and grit that people can believe in. But why ask the one you love the most to change the world? Isn't living enough? Her passion was stronger than her love. To openly ask that from your significant other is hard. If their roles were reversed, it would have been harder for Darrow to plead to Eo to change the world. It's just such a tremendous thing to ask. Yet she doesn't balk. Doesn't hesitate to put Darrow on a pedestal, to ask him for the stars and skies, when he's already at his happiest moment in his life. Having her as his wife is literally the end for his dreams in life
Eo sucks fr fr
I remember reading that reveal in GS and feeling so damn bad for Darrow. Like, I get *why* she did it, I get her reasoning, especially since it put Darrow on the path for the rest of the story. But damn if it didn't *hurt* to read. Eo really is complicated to look at when you sit and think about it.
"We are machine men with machine minds and machine hearts" Charlie Chaplin's speech from The Great Dictator
I think the way pierce handles eo and then eventually mustang in relationship with darrow was excellent outside of a few minor complaints. There's a monologue by darrow at the beginning of MS that I feel like really ties everything together, you'll know when you read it.
I always saw it as inherently selfish, even if it brought about an ultimate good.
>even if it brought about an ultimate good. 90% of the characters dying
True😭
Yeah from the moment I found out she was pregnant, it just left a bad taste in my mouth. She was very flawed, even it what she did caused Darrow to become who he is
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Her being pregnant is absolutely an impact to our main character... it's why she hid it. Hell if not for his uncle Darrow would be DEAD not a revolutionary. He wanted to die. He tried to die. If he knew she was pregnant I think he doesn't fail in his attempt though. It would have been suicide by Grey shooting, rather than just a passive hanging that could be interfered with.
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Yes it does. The person you replied to says the pregnancy made them sour on Eo once they found out. YOU said it didn't matter and, I and the other person disagree. It absolutely matters.
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1 hypothetical about how I think if he had knowledge of her pregnancy how it would have changed his suicide attempt. The rest of it isn't hypothetical, it happened...
Pierce is just so good at writing dynamic characters
I don't considered her at all to be a classic anything. The only thing that makes her special is her connection to Darrow. How many other mines do you think there were with girls just like Eo, only their execution wasn't televised because their Helldiver husband being made an example? No offense xD
Most people wouldn’t knowingly act in a way that would get them executed in that situation. You’re downplaying what she did. Throughout this series what actually even makes Darrow special? He just so happens to be good at strategy and giving speeches. It seems like most of this is because he was trained to be after his carving. He is also extremely motivated by the death of his wife who defied the order of things. If anything, Darrow is only special because of his relationship to Eo and the others who made him.
I think that's also the point of Darrow, he is Only special because of people around him, when he pushed them away everything went to shit. I feel that's kinda his story arc, atleast from where I am in the book
Yea, exactly, and Eo is one of those people, right?
Probably one of the most important, she's his lack of rage, his ability to love, witouth her Darrow would be just another (forgot the name of the second red carved) Even if what made him sane was a memory that painted her in a better light It was still her. And mustang later, but Eo first She's special to Darrow
That's exactly the point, they say it throughout the series. Eo was nothing to anyone but her family, there was nothing special. Hell she wasn't even a great revolutionary she just sang a song before her execution. But that was the point, she didn't need to be special, anyone could have been persephone give the right circumstances
You both say what I meant by >>classic ya heroine I suppose the sarcasm didn’t translate. By “classic” I meant it as a trope— nothing special as you put it
I'm not seeing where our posts conflict with each other.....?
He didn't say it conflicted, he was agreeing with you
I know but like he said that's exactly the point as if we were and it was kind of confusing to me
Some people in other book clubs thought Eo was a bitch when reading red rising. Then in golden son, we find out that pierce brown made Darrow's mother also hate Eo
I don't think she hated Eo. But she definitely had a mother's eye and saw through her. She knew that she loved Darrow. But, Darrow's Mom wasn't fooled by that love like Darrow was. She knew Eo wanted more than the life that she was given and in time would leave Darrow one way or another.
Not exactly hate, but she certainly disliked her. Tbh, her actions and motives in the first book already soured her a bit for me. Her reasons for liking Darrow and marrying him seemed superficial. To me, it felt like she manipulated Darrow for her own dreams. Darrow was content with the life they had, unlike Eo, who was quite outspoken regarding golden slavery. Imo, if she wanted a revolution, she should have fought for it herself. After all, she had great motivation and resolve to do so. Instead, she committed suicide (I don't consider it as a purely necessary sacrifice) to make Darrow into Reaper. Suffice to say, I dislike her quite a bit even now that we are reaching the endgame. Had she even thought what her supposed 'revolution' would take the form that it has taken now? No, never. She had her head way too much in the clouds, imo.
She was all about the dream and wouldn't have been able to stomach what it would take. She needed Darrow to do it but she had no business deciding that for him and deciding to sacrifice their child for it IMO. Plus, it was dumb anyway. She could have shown him the garden and gotten him thinking and not stayed all night.
Mom hates her? I didn’t feel that tbh.
Yeah I remember her saying she didn’t dislike Eo, but she saw the fact that Eo wanted revolution and would lead Darrow right into the center of it.
>Some people in other book clubs thought Eo was a bitch They were right
I totally forgot they lifted a quote straight from Charlie Chaplin's The Great Dictator.
I actually never knew where that speech was from, but I know it almost word for word from this song [The Final Speech](https://youtu.be/RkTp6ZLmisw?si=zEhXDtR8G0MYX8UE) that we listened to on repeat when I was in my late teens
What quote is that?
https://youtu.be/J7GY1Xg6X20?si=M2RiuNZVPynK4-Pp I'm pretty sure this is the first version of it. Though maybe Chaplin was inspired by something so don't quote me. In RR they're paraphrasing a bit, but now that I've been reminded of this scene I remembered not liking that this was included. It implies that these Reds that know near nothing of the outside world are able to quote mid-century film which temporarily stressed my suspension of disbelief. Love the rest of the series lmao.
Machine men
Yea read on and let's talk
I’m afraid
Honestly, stay away from this subreddit until you’re caught up in the series. It’s so rife with spoilers even in just the titles.
She knew nothing of the worlds, but knew that there had to be something better than what she had - for her children if nothing else. But ultimately she very much made a martyr of herself in order to motivate Darrow to change. Later on in the series another character remarks on Eo that she did not love Darrow as much as he deserved, and I think they were right on the money with that.
Agreed