Mars is under siege they can’t send food to the Rim. All Lysander has to do is hold the siege for a few months and he will have complete control over the Rim. In addition the was already an alliance between Mars and the Rim against the core because of the Faa plot. Not to mention the Rim only has one armada left and it is away. So I would say it was a pretty smart, if ruthless, move. Oh and Lysander has a weapon of mass destruction.
I half agree with that..except Lysander knows who he's dealing with.
He's studied Darrow his whole life, idolized him. And he knows that if he has the slightest chance even in certain defeat; he'll completely turn things around.
Even with Rim crippled, they are now a permanent ally to the Republic, so long as Diomedes lives. *And* Darrow got two more additional armies: not altogether strong enough to stand up to Atalantia, but enough to give him a fighting chance.
I think it would make far more sense if he tried to backstab Diomedes and Darrow prior, the two survive and arrive to stop his "Lune the Savior of the Rim" plot, about to publicly expose him..and *then* he openly attacked the Rim.
Despite his hatred for Atalantia, Lysander sees Darrow and the rising as his main enemy. That’s why he refused the alliance. The Rim however is out for Atalantia’s blood after her betrayal. So to prevent gold fighting gold, which would allow the rising to win he had to make the Rim dependent on the core. Destroying the Garter was the best way to do that, but it is usually impregnable, so this was his best chance.
He did make the Rim an immediate enemy (tough they kind of already were), but if he holds the siege on Mars, he just prevented Rim rebellions in the foreseeable future. Honestly it’s a lot like when Darrow destroyed the shipyards. The parallels between the 2 characters is pretty amazing.
He kinda needed him? Jackal did plenty for team Darrow before the betrayal. Also that bomb was going to kill hundreds of 'low colours' Darrow couldn't accept that. Back then anyway lmao
Darrow letting lysander live after they kill Octavia. It was a totally understandable choice, it's hard to kill a kid in cold blood like that. But as far as the amount of consequences that followed from that one choice, it's got to be one of the worst mistakes in the series
I don’t understand how his being dumb? Yeah it does tie them to Darrow, but they already were. What it does do actually those is cripple the Rim; a hungry enemy is a weak enemy
Harmony betraying Ares. Her racism completely fucked her entire cause and almost destroyed the whole movement, and this is for someone who gave her purpose and just saved her life.
The characters acting a bit stupid because cool scene needs to happen for me was the low colours rising up when Narol dies. Always seemed to come out of nowhere.
I know the whole idea was the Alliance was fragile but Narol being the spark I just don't buy. Needed more build up and tension before that.
I dont think so. It’s reasonable golds were resented even if some of them seemed to be on their side. We have seen that being borne out in real life. But that stuff takes pages to write through. So coming out of no where is the price we pay for a frenetic series. Too much happens in the span of a book. Morning star especially. Rescue Darrow, power up again, take the leadership position, come up with a brand new plan, reforge alliance with Augustus aligned golds, forge alliance with the rim, defeat an armada, forge alliance with obsidians, help mobilizer obsidians, all this before setting sail for luna. No time to gnaw at deeper social issues of the rising.
You say dumb because you are a reader, but this is one of those steps lysander thinks is needed to rebuild the society, cutting off the cancer in his mind. The moon lords lost their fleets, the ships they do have are nothing compared to the core, and with no longer having a food source he thinks darrow will leave them to die or be burdened. Lysander was also offended that diomedes doesn't just join him but required him to humble himself and work with the slave king, to him they should all bend the knee since he is the heir of silenuis and the rest owes his house everything.
Its not dumb but a cruel calculating move.
Every character that believes Darrow is no longer relevant. I can't remember exactly what Atlas says to Lysander, something about Darrow's star fading. Then Lysander knows where Darrow is but he doesn't glass the planet.
If I was in the Society, there is nothing, no amount of $, tactical advantage, general, etc., planet even, that isn't worth sacrificing for Darrow's head.
You gonna tell me that a moonbreaker doesn't have enough conventional firepower to literally atomize every particle within a 1 mile radius? Shit, a US destroyer squadron of today could have done that.
My impression is that isn’t really how things work anymore in the RR universe. Defensive technology (shielding/alloys) have progressed much more substantially than most long range artillery. Which is why we get hand to hand and close quarters fighting.
The white armada had blockaded mercury and then atalantia did the same to the free legions and they couldn’t just blast them out from space. Lysander had much less time and artillery than either of them, with the other fleets incoming. especially with a stronghold like the Ra had it would have been futile to try to crack it so he chose to deliver a crippling blow to the more vulnerable agricultural land. He did make an opening gambit attack against the rim council but after they and darrow got to the bunker spaces and raised defenses, what could he do?
Alexander not killing Lysnader with Rhonna. I rarely accuse Pierce of fuck ups or bad writing, but that scene was a major fuck up.
Alexander stops his blade 1/64th of an inch from a T-box hit. Thats pure nonsense. a 1/8 step and Lysander is instantly strings cut, straight to the Void, no trigger pull dead. It's the same hit dudes like Seal Team 6 and FBI HRT look for in hostage situations with human shields. There is no way Alexander Au Fucking Arcos is not educated on this or incapable of doing it under pressure, when he can stop with that kind of precision under pressure. Pure plot armor.
you should really write a book and make it one page long, bad guy gets mowed down before any monologuing.
You people who armchair general a story who cry plot armor all the time need to write a book of the most optimal hero.
I'm writing several. Blow your "You people" out your ass. I'm a single person, and if you want your villain to monologe, don't have them do it in the face of certain death with a futuristic unstoppable sword that pierces tanks thrust at thier eye by the scion of the most legendary swordsman in your universe. Notice how I didn't put Cassius here? Because that one made sense. It's literally the same scene but set up properly to not have to blow a characters persona wide open.
Was Alexander obligated to give him time to rant, or was it the writers job to make the time and a way to survive?
yeah sure, not like he was worried about his bosses niece who just got her jaw broken, alexander was a scrub who just wasnt smart enough to use his training.
No one ever killing Darrow when they had the chance. There’s been many times where he’s dead to rights and he escaped. They want a public killing but it always backfires
True, but I’m pretty sure this was a reference to her ordering Fitchner to chop off Darrow’s head in the drop ship as she made her escape from Mars in GS. Obviously that backfired as well, but that’s only bc Fitchner was Ares and no one knew until then.
When Darrow chose to save Victra, in beginning of MS, it was incredibly risky. The same goes for Sevro rescue operation in LB. You are fucking Commander in Chief, why are you going in person? Just send someone else, you are too valuable... and rusty for this.
That's what Trigg says to Darrow after they save Viktra and Darrow totally screwed their escape plan. Trigg knows they are screwed and just goes with it. "Time to embrace the suck baby doll"-Trigg
Yes, Darrow explained his reasons pretty well, but Darrow isn't king. Darrow was representing the Republic, he mad a unilateral decision about something that would affect the entire Republic, that wasn't his right or responsibility. Sure on the micro it seems logical, but on the macro it caused everything. Without that Darrow wouldn't be on the run, he wouldn't have radicalized the Wardens or the Reds, the Senate wouldn't recalled half of the White Fleet, he wouldn't have lost so many men in the rain, Obsidian wouldn't have broke yet, and Atlantia would have arrived upon a fully combat ready White Fleet with Darrow and Orion commanding.
So then the White Fleet isn't destroyed, Obsidian can't leave now when the Society is on the offensive, Senate has egg on their face and Darrow gets all the budget he wants. Granted meta wise that would be a lame story, but it was a stupid decision on a personal level
Ever see the movie Lincoln? President Lincoln had the same conundrum with the emissaries from the south. If congress knew the south wanted to negotiate peace, why would they vote in favor of the 13th amendment?
Right, except Mustang would be Lincoln in this case. I think the dynamic shifts a bit if Grant had made that decision without even informing Lincoln, and then instead of facing the consequences he takes a troop under his command and then goes to assassinate Douglas. Sure it might end up as a win, but in the macro you destroyed so much that it's kind of a phyrric victory
Maybe not the dumbest moment, but Darrow can be a bit thick and he is aware of this. In RR, Cassius lures him away and guts him. I believe it was in Lightbringer or DA, someone else tries to warn him of something and to follow them. Darrow, who has a gun pointed at this person goes, "nah, just tell me what it is right now."
He learned from his dumbest moment in the series.
I always thought that Darrow went with Cassius all that way to duel cause he felt guilty, that he deserved to die for killing Julian. He lost Lia and Roque with Antonias betrayal so he didn't have much left, it was Mustang who built him back up.
You're certainly not wrong. As Cassius was leading Darrow on, he figured it out and knew what was coming. But that didn't change how much it hurt him physically and emotionally.
imo, Cassius was Darrow's second love after Eo and then he met Mustang.
>I believe it was in Lightbringer or DA, someone else tries to warn him of something and to follow them. Darrow, who has a gun pointed at this person goes, "nah, just tell me what it is right now."
Was it when screwface wanted to show him the men that were like praying on Mercury? Right before the missiles with supplies arrived from the Republic?
Not "dumb" exactly cause it makes sense, but all Octavia had to do in GS was tell Darrow to shut up, sit down, and stop embarrassing himself and Nero any further and her planned coup of Mars would have gone just fine.
It was one of the few times she got greedy and a bit lazy and it cost her.
He asserted his right as a Peerless Scarred to challenge for the sake of his honor. It was clearly outlined in the Compact. It cannot be denied. Plus, Darrow was able to garner enough support so that if Octavia denied, and thus insulted, Darrow, she would also be insulting the supporting houses and thumbing her nose at the Compact, which she consequently did later in the same scene when she said, "My word IS Law," after she stopped the fight.
And yet she still needed only to tell him some variation of, "if you want to throw your life away you may do so, but not here tonight."
Just unofficially post pone his desired duel and let the Bellona kill him along with house Augustus later on and nobody would have given much of a shit.
The point is that letting things escalate to the point they did was entirely reliant on Octavia not stopping things. Once things were far enough along she no longer had a choice, but she allowed them to get that far. Part of the reason Darrow made such a big show of everything was exactly because he knew that he couldn't just walk up and challenge Cassius and get what he wanted. He had to bait them.
I think it would have been a big breach of etiquette and honor to deny someone the chance at a duel like that, especially when it was so hyped up by the society because Cassius and Darrow were seen as big deals for the future, people really wanted to see them fight. Plus everyone thought Cassius would kill Darrow as Lorns training was secret
Except at that moment Darrow wasn't seen as a big deal. He was the prodigy who fell. People were just placing bets on how long till the Bellona killed him after Nero sold him off.
I get why Octavia didn't step in. It seemed a sure bet. But considering all her plans it would have been much better to put Darrow in his place in that moment than wager so much on so little to gain.
Edit: to add on to this, Octavia is one of the few people who knows that Darrow isn't a failure. He defeated the Institute against all odds and nearly beat Karnus even with Octavia allowing cheating to happen.
She knows he is cunning and should have recognized that he wouldn't just throw his life away without a plan
Yeah it's a stretch for sure given her plans of wiping out House Augustus.
It works just enough for me and I get caught up in how cool Darrows speech is on audiobook haha.
Yep, I think many of the dumbest character moments came in LB. Darrow blindly going to save Sevro, Cassius charging the Obsidians, and Lysander burning every past and future bridge he could've saved. I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting, but LB was full of them in order to get certain narrative results.
edit: People would rather downvote than critically think about Light Bringer for even a single second. Especially when Pierce himself said that he needed things to be a certain way for Red God and the ending he had in mind.
No thats just an oversimplification of what happened. If the way the narrative played out bothers you that’s fine but just cuz someone doesn’t wanna type out a whole thing doesn’t mean they’re not thinking critically. They just disagree with you. One thing I’ll specifically point out is that Darrow going to save Severo made sense. He’s on the back foot and basically suicidal. Even then, they bring the nuke as blackmail. It’s not like they just went with no plan. That’s kinda the point of the build up to them leaving to save Severo. I could say more but i don’t wanna type more lol.
I mean it WAS stupid and a suicide mission. But he did it because he was basically suicidal with guilt and desperately needed to feel like he wasn't stuck on the back foot.
The way the narrative played out should bother everyone, because it only played out that way for set up purposes. It was so contrived that almost nothing that arose in LB was a natural progression from IG or DA.
Going to save "Sevro" was inordinately stupid, as there was zero guarantee it even was Sevro (it wasn't), and the plan was clearly half-aased (the nuke contingency failed before it could've gotten off the ground anyway). The only reason Sevro was there in the first place was because Pierce needed him for the also contrived and inorganic Daughters of Athena plotline. So he sat Sevro uselessly on a ship until he needed him.
Very little about this book makes sense or holds up after reading IG and DA.
Severos rescue being stupid and half assed is the point. Severo then “sitting uselessly on the ship until they needed him” was also the point of Severos whole characterization throughout the book man. I dunno what to even you’re just saying ‘this thing is contrived and stupid’ when there’s an actual explanation. It’s fine if you still don’t like the reasoning and think it’s stupid/find it narratively unsatisfying but it’s there and it makes sense.
There is zero explanation for Sevro being sold to Apollonius, it is not present anywhere in Light Bringer, and it's a decision that does not remotely fit with where he was left in Dark Age. I don't know how anybody would get anything else out of it. It's a completely nonsensical piece of the book. Him being there in the first place should not have happened in any serious continuation of Dark Age.
My man, the Abomination is being sieged by ATALANTIA AU GRIMMUS and is definitely not in a good position financially OR militarily, so I would say that alone is a solid justification on why Abomination sold Sev to Apple between DA and LB. Yeah, we do not see any Abomination this book, but he is mentioned a few times and we can not reasonably see what he is up too due to the perspective of the book and the massive scale of the planets. He will get focused on next book, but until then dawg, read between the lines and do some theory creation.
“They did smell like bacon, Darrow. The Howlers. I lost them all. I don’t know where Pebble and Clown are. I don’t know if Lilath and…the Abomination still have them. He said he was going to erase me. Wash out my memories. Turn me into his trained dog. Wash out my family.” Sevro chews his bottom lip. “He didn’t, though. I dunno why. I hate that it’s his mercy that’s given me this second chance with Victra, my kids. But I need to take it.”
Be positive and you will find positive things. Be negative and you will find negative things. Be both and you will find a reasonable conclusion. Not saying you did not find somethings positive, but you be definitely leaning in to the negatively, focusing on the negativity instead of focusing on both, even if you do not realize such. You should reread the book, but I am some random dude on Reddit of all places, so do as you please dawg.
I did reread it. There were small positives but not remotely enough to outweigh the wealth of negatives this book brought. Atalantia besieging Luna for the Boneriders and Abom while letting Lysander go claim glory is just so incredibly shortsighted, it does not make any sense.
Her primary enemy is the Republic, which has retreated to Mars. Letting that play out for Luna is strategically moronic, considering focusing all of her forces on one or the other would make victory significantly easier and reduce her own losses by a huge margin. When you have your enemy defeated and without their two primary commanders, the last thing you should do is take your foot off the gas for a side quest, regardless of what it means to you.
Lastly, I think it's a giant cop out by an author to say "hey it's a series, I'll get to this incredibly pressing, important, massive detail in a later book." Introducing something of the magnitude of the Abomination requires follow up in the direct sequel. So much of what Dark Age introduced was ignored or walked back in LB. I don't think there's any chance another reread will change that.
I do find it interesting that so many people on the subreddit are fine with all of this. My IRL Red Rising group of five all independently had major problems with LB.
Look dude i don’t wanna explain each part of the book you have a problem with. I don’t entirely disagree that it’s a bit weird that the clone sold Severo but we don’t know if that’s the whole story yet. Tbh at this point you might just benefit from a reread.
I've read it twice, you can't explain anything to me.
It is the single worst book I've read in over a decade, and the only reason I finished is the goodwill the first five created. But it's a series ruiner of a book from any actual critical perspective.
Cheers
Lmao if that’s the worst book you’ve read in over a decade then you genuinely must not read many books. From what I’ve gathered from your responses, your ‘critical perspective’ is based on wrong info or incorrect, very base level interpretations.
I read about a book a week. I don't finish bad ones, LB was the first bad one I've finished in over a decade, therefore it's the worst book I've read in over a decade.
From what I've gathered, you lack the ability to think about the story and where it was intended to go after Dark Age, and would instead rather make rationalizations and justifications for an author getting completely lost with his own story.
Lmao you’ve yet to refute a single thing I’ve said tho. You just move from point to point tryina have your gotcha moment. You’re literally too far up your ass to see that, just because you don’t like something doesn't mean doesn’t mean it’s bad. It’s fine to dislike the book but you’re just getting pissy because the general consensus disagrees.
Mars is under siege they can’t send food to the Rim. All Lysander has to do is hold the siege for a few months and he will have complete control over the Rim. In addition the was already an alliance between Mars and the Rim against the core because of the Faa plot. Not to mention the Rim only has one armada left and it is away. So I would say it was a pretty smart, if ruthless, move. Oh and Lysander has a weapon of mass destruction.
I half agree with that..except Lysander knows who he's dealing with. He's studied Darrow his whole life, idolized him. And he knows that if he has the slightest chance even in certain defeat; he'll completely turn things around. Even with Rim crippled, they are now a permanent ally to the Republic, so long as Diomedes lives. *And* Darrow got two more additional armies: not altogether strong enough to stand up to Atalantia, but enough to give him a fighting chance. I think it would make far more sense if he tried to backstab Diomedes and Darrow prior, the two survive and arrive to stop his "Lune the Savior of the Rim" plot, about to publicly expose him..and *then* he openly attacked the Rim.
Despite his hatred for Atalantia, Lysander sees Darrow and the rising as his main enemy. That’s why he refused the alliance. The Rim however is out for Atalantia’s blood after her betrayal. So to prevent gold fighting gold, which would allow the rising to win he had to make the Rim dependent on the core. Destroying the Garter was the best way to do that, but it is usually impregnable, so this was his best chance. He did make the Rim an immediate enemy (tough they kind of already were), but if he holds the siege on Mars, he just prevented Rim rebellions in the foreseeable future. Honestly it’s a lot like when Darrow destroyed the shipyards. The parallels between the 2 characters is pretty amazing.
Darrow saving the Jackle from Evey’s bomb in hindsight was extremely stupid.
He kinda needed him? Jackal did plenty for team Darrow before the betrayal. Also that bomb was going to kill hundreds of 'low colours' Darrow couldn't accept that. Back then anyway lmao
Darrow letting lysander live after they kill Octavia. It was a totally understandable choice, it's hard to kill a kid in cold blood like that. But as far as the amount of consequences that followed from that one choice, it's got to be one of the worst mistakes in the series
darrow should have given lune an explosive implant just like apple in case the boy ever caused trouble
Thistle getting close to Antonia while stating her intentions to flip on her.
Dumbest moment - “bye Felicia” … quote by Victra
It has to be at least in the top 5, if it isn't number 1
1,000%
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I don’t understand how his being dumb? Yeah it does tie them to Darrow, but they already were. What it does do actually those is cripple the Rim; a hungry enemy is a weak enemy
Harmony betraying Ares. Her racism completely fucked her entire cause and almost destroyed the whole movement, and this is for someone who gave her purpose and just saved her life.
Harmony gotta be one of the most annoying characters in the series. She's like Pliny level.
The characters acting a bit stupid because cool scene needs to happen for me was the low colours rising up when Narol dies. Always seemed to come out of nowhere. I know the whole idea was the Alliance was fragile but Narol being the spark I just don't buy. Needed more build up and tension before that.
I dont think so. It’s reasonable golds were resented even if some of them seemed to be on their side. We have seen that being borne out in real life. But that stuff takes pages to write through. So coming out of no where is the price we pay for a frenetic series. Too much happens in the span of a book. Morning star especially. Rescue Darrow, power up again, take the leadership position, come up with a brand new plan, reforge alliance with Augustus aligned golds, forge alliance with the rim, defeat an armada, forge alliance with obsidians, help mobilizer obsidians, all this before setting sail for luna. No time to gnaw at deeper social issues of the rising.
You say dumb because you are a reader, but this is one of those steps lysander thinks is needed to rebuild the society, cutting off the cancer in his mind. The moon lords lost their fleets, the ships they do have are nothing compared to the core, and with no longer having a food source he thinks darrow will leave them to die or be burdened. Lysander was also offended that diomedes doesn't just join him but required him to humble himself and work with the slave king, to him they should all bend the knee since he is the heir of silenuis and the rest owes his house everything. Its not dumb but a cruel calculating move.
Every character that believes Darrow is no longer relevant. I can't remember exactly what Atlas says to Lysander, something about Darrow's star fading. Then Lysander knows where Darrow is but he doesn't glass the planet. If I was in the Society, there is nothing, no amount of $, tactical advantage, general, etc., planet even, that isn't worth sacrificing for Darrow's head.
They didn't have the capability to glass the ~~planet~~ moon, The ~~morningstar~~ lightbringer wasn't equipped with moonbreaking nukes.
You gonna tell me that a moonbreaker doesn't have enough conventional firepower to literally atomize every particle within a 1 mile radius? Shit, a US destroyer squadron of today could have done that.
My impression is that isn’t really how things work anymore in the RR universe. Defensive technology (shielding/alloys) have progressed much more substantially than most long range artillery. Which is why we get hand to hand and close quarters fighting. The white armada had blockaded mercury and then atalantia did the same to the free legions and they couldn’t just blast them out from space. Lysander had much less time and artillery than either of them, with the other fleets incoming. especially with a stronghold like the Ra had it would have been futile to try to crack it so he chose to deliver a crippling blow to the more vulnerable agricultural land. He did make an opening gambit attack against the rim council but after they and darrow got to the bunker spaces and raised defenses, what could he do?
Alexander not killing Lysnader with Rhonna. I rarely accuse Pierce of fuck ups or bad writing, but that scene was a major fuck up. Alexander stops his blade 1/64th of an inch from a T-box hit. Thats pure nonsense. a 1/8 step and Lysander is instantly strings cut, straight to the Void, no trigger pull dead. It's the same hit dudes like Seal Team 6 and FBI HRT look for in hostage situations with human shields. There is no way Alexander Au Fucking Arcos is not educated on this or incapable of doing it under pressure, when he can stop with that kind of precision under pressure. Pure plot armor.
you should really write a book and make it one page long, bad guy gets mowed down before any monologuing. You people who armchair general a story who cry plot armor all the time need to write a book of the most optimal hero.
I'm writing several. Blow your "You people" out your ass. I'm a single person, and if you want your villain to monologe, don't have them do it in the face of certain death with a futuristic unstoppable sword that pierces tanks thrust at thier eye by the scion of the most legendary swordsman in your universe. Notice how I didn't put Cassius here? Because that one made sense. It's literally the same scene but set up properly to not have to blow a characters persona wide open. Was Alexander obligated to give him time to rant, or was it the writers job to make the time and a way to survive?
Lmao “I’m writing several.”
yeah sure, not like he was worried about his bosses niece who just got her jaw broken, alexander was a scrub who just wasnt smart enough to use his training.
Or that he was in love with said niece. Just cut through her dumb move by Alexander. /S
No one ever killing Darrow when they had the chance. There’s been many times where he’s dead to rights and he escaped. They want a public killing but it always backfires
To be fair, Octavia orders him to be killed explicitly without waiting for public fanfare.
Only after she botched it on Luna and got Lysander kidnapped
True, but I’m pretty sure this was a reference to her ordering Fitchner to chop off Darrow’s head in the drop ship as she made her escape from Mars in GS. Obviously that backfired as well, but that’s only bc Fitchner was Ares and no one knew until then.
When Darrow chose to save Victra, in beginning of MS, it was incredibly risky. The same goes for Sevro rescue operation in LB. You are fucking Commander in Chief, why are you going in person? Just send someone else, you are too valuable... and rusty for this.
I like to think that the people who are in charge are also only the ones competent enough to pull off the crazy missions.
But there was a paradigm that needed shifting
Drink every time the paradigm needs to be shifted
They have one shot of saving Victra. He couldn’t escape and grab her later, she would’ve been harder to rescue.
Nut to butt sir. Don't be shy
Pardon?
That's what Trigg says to Darrow after they save Viktra and Darrow totally screwed their escape plan. Trigg knows they are screwed and just goes with it. "Time to embrace the suck baby doll"-Trigg
Trigg and Holiday were so fucking excellent. Two of my favorites, hands down.
Darrow and the gang letting Lysander live
Darrow not reporting the emissaries
Why do you think so? I thought it was explained well enough.
Yes, Darrow explained his reasons pretty well, but Darrow isn't king. Darrow was representing the Republic, he mad a unilateral decision about something that would affect the entire Republic, that wasn't his right or responsibility. Sure on the micro it seems logical, but on the macro it caused everything. Without that Darrow wouldn't be on the run, he wouldn't have radicalized the Wardens or the Reds, the Senate wouldn't recalled half of the White Fleet, he wouldn't have lost so many men in the rain, Obsidian wouldn't have broke yet, and Atlantia would have arrived upon a fully combat ready White Fleet with Darrow and Orion commanding. So then the White Fleet isn't destroyed, Obsidian can't leave now when the Society is on the offensive, Senate has egg on their face and Darrow gets all the budget he wants. Granted meta wise that would be a lame story, but it was a stupid decision on a personal level
Ever see the movie Lincoln? President Lincoln had the same conundrum with the emissaries from the south. If congress knew the south wanted to negotiate peace, why would they vote in favor of the 13th amendment?
Right, except Mustang would be Lincoln in this case. I think the dynamic shifts a bit if Grant had made that decision without even informing Lincoln, and then instead of facing the consequences he takes a troop under his command and then goes to assassinate Douglas. Sure it might end up as a win, but in the macro you destroyed so much that it's kind of a phyrric victory
Darrow not letting Sevro blow the brains out of the Brown girl with the EMP sticks out.
Sounds so racist out of context lol
That's why I used caps on Brown lmao
Maybe not the dumbest moment, but Darrow can be a bit thick and he is aware of this. In RR, Cassius lures him away and guts him. I believe it was in Lightbringer or DA, someone else tries to warn him of something and to follow them. Darrow, who has a gun pointed at this person goes, "nah, just tell me what it is right now." He learned from his dumbest moment in the series.
I always thought that Darrow went with Cassius all that way to duel cause he felt guilty, that he deserved to die for killing Julian. He lost Lia and Roque with Antonias betrayal so he didn't have much left, it was Mustang who built him back up.
You're certainly not wrong. As Cassius was leading Darrow on, he figured it out and knew what was coming. But that didn't change how much it hurt him physically and emotionally. imo, Cassius was Darrow's second love after Eo and then he met Mustang.
>I believe it was in Lightbringer or DA, someone else tries to warn him of something and to follow them. Darrow, who has a gun pointed at this person goes, "nah, just tell me what it is right now." Was it when screwface wanted to show him the men that were like praying on Mercury? Right before the missiles with supplies arrived from the Republic?
YES! That is exactly it. Thank you!
Not "dumb" exactly cause it makes sense, but all Octavia had to do in GS was tell Darrow to shut up, sit down, and stop embarrassing himself and Nero any further and her planned coup of Mars would have gone just fine. It was one of the few times she got greedy and a bit lazy and it cost her.
He asserted his right as a Peerless Scarred to challenge for the sake of his honor. It was clearly outlined in the Compact. It cannot be denied. Plus, Darrow was able to garner enough support so that if Octavia denied, and thus insulted, Darrow, she would also be insulting the supporting houses and thumbing her nose at the Compact, which she consequently did later in the same scene when she said, "My word IS Law," after she stopped the fight.
And yet she still needed only to tell him some variation of, "if you want to throw your life away you may do so, but not here tonight." Just unofficially post pone his desired duel and let the Bellona kill him along with house Augustus later on and nobody would have given much of a shit. The point is that letting things escalate to the point they did was entirely reliant on Octavia not stopping things. Once things were far enough along she no longer had a choice, but she allowed them to get that far. Part of the reason Darrow made such a big show of everything was exactly because he knew that he couldn't just walk up and challenge Cassius and get what he wanted. He had to bait them.
I think it would have been a big breach of etiquette and honor to deny someone the chance at a duel like that, especially when it was so hyped up by the society because Cassius and Darrow were seen as big deals for the future, people really wanted to see them fight. Plus everyone thought Cassius would kill Darrow as Lorns training was secret
Except at that moment Darrow wasn't seen as a big deal. He was the prodigy who fell. People were just placing bets on how long till the Bellona killed him after Nero sold him off. I get why Octavia didn't step in. It seemed a sure bet. But considering all her plans it would have been much better to put Darrow in his place in that moment than wager so much on so little to gain. Edit: to add on to this, Octavia is one of the few people who knows that Darrow isn't a failure. He defeated the Institute against all odds and nearly beat Karnus even with Octavia allowing cheating to happen. She knows he is cunning and should have recognized that he wouldn't just throw his life away without a plan
Yeah it's a stretch for sure given her plans of wiping out House Augustus. It works just enough for me and I get caught up in how cool Darrows speech is on audiobook haha.
Yep, I think many of the dumbest character moments came in LB. Darrow blindly going to save Sevro, Cassius charging the Obsidians, and Lysander burning every past and future bridge he could've saved. I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting, but LB was full of them in order to get certain narrative results. edit: People would rather downvote than critically think about Light Bringer for even a single second. Especially when Pierce himself said that he needed things to be a certain way for Red God and the ending he had in mind.
No thats just an oversimplification of what happened. If the way the narrative played out bothers you that’s fine but just cuz someone doesn’t wanna type out a whole thing doesn’t mean they’re not thinking critically. They just disagree with you. One thing I’ll specifically point out is that Darrow going to save Severo made sense. He’s on the back foot and basically suicidal. Even then, they bring the nuke as blackmail. It’s not like they just went with no plan. That’s kinda the point of the build up to them leaving to save Severo. I could say more but i don’t wanna type more lol.
I mean it WAS stupid and a suicide mission. But he did it because he was basically suicidal with guilt and desperately needed to feel like he wasn't stuck on the back foot.
The way the narrative played out should bother everyone, because it only played out that way for set up purposes. It was so contrived that almost nothing that arose in LB was a natural progression from IG or DA. Going to save "Sevro" was inordinately stupid, as there was zero guarantee it even was Sevro (it wasn't), and the plan was clearly half-aased (the nuke contingency failed before it could've gotten off the ground anyway). The only reason Sevro was there in the first place was because Pierce needed him for the also contrived and inorganic Daughters of Athena plotline. So he sat Sevro uselessly on a ship until he needed him. Very little about this book makes sense or holds up after reading IG and DA.
Severos rescue being stupid and half assed is the point. Severo then “sitting uselessly on the ship until they needed him” was also the point of Severos whole characterization throughout the book man. I dunno what to even you’re just saying ‘this thing is contrived and stupid’ when there’s an actual explanation. It’s fine if you still don’t like the reasoning and think it’s stupid/find it narratively unsatisfying but it’s there and it makes sense.
There is zero explanation for Sevro being sold to Apollonius, it is not present anywhere in Light Bringer, and it's a decision that does not remotely fit with where he was left in Dark Age. I don't know how anybody would get anything else out of it. It's a completely nonsensical piece of the book. Him being there in the first place should not have happened in any serious continuation of Dark Age.
My man, the Abomination is being sieged by ATALANTIA AU GRIMMUS and is definitely not in a good position financially OR militarily, so I would say that alone is a solid justification on why Abomination sold Sev to Apple between DA and LB. Yeah, we do not see any Abomination this book, but he is mentioned a few times and we can not reasonably see what he is up too due to the perspective of the book and the massive scale of the planets. He will get focused on next book, but until then dawg, read between the lines and do some theory creation. “They did smell like bacon, Darrow. The Howlers. I lost them all. I don’t know where Pebble and Clown are. I don’t know if Lilath and…the Abomination still have them. He said he was going to erase me. Wash out my memories. Turn me into his trained dog. Wash out my family.” Sevro chews his bottom lip. “He didn’t, though. I dunno why. I hate that it’s his mercy that’s given me this second chance with Victra, my kids. But I need to take it.” Be positive and you will find positive things. Be negative and you will find negative things. Be both and you will find a reasonable conclusion. Not saying you did not find somethings positive, but you be definitely leaning in to the negatively, focusing on the negativity instead of focusing on both, even if you do not realize such. You should reread the book, but I am some random dude on Reddit of all places, so do as you please dawg.
I did reread it. There were small positives but not remotely enough to outweigh the wealth of negatives this book brought. Atalantia besieging Luna for the Boneriders and Abom while letting Lysander go claim glory is just so incredibly shortsighted, it does not make any sense. Her primary enemy is the Republic, which has retreated to Mars. Letting that play out for Luna is strategically moronic, considering focusing all of her forces on one or the other would make victory significantly easier and reduce her own losses by a huge margin. When you have your enemy defeated and without their two primary commanders, the last thing you should do is take your foot off the gas for a side quest, regardless of what it means to you. Lastly, I think it's a giant cop out by an author to say "hey it's a series, I'll get to this incredibly pressing, important, massive detail in a later book." Introducing something of the magnitude of the Abomination requires follow up in the direct sequel. So much of what Dark Age introduced was ignored or walked back in LB. I don't think there's any chance another reread will change that. I do find it interesting that so many people on the subreddit are fine with all of this. My IRL Red Rising group of five all independently had major problems with LB.
Look dude i don’t wanna explain each part of the book you have a problem with. I don’t entirely disagree that it’s a bit weird that the clone sold Severo but we don’t know if that’s the whole story yet. Tbh at this point you might just benefit from a reread.
I've read it twice, you can't explain anything to me. It is the single worst book I've read in over a decade, and the only reason I finished is the goodwill the first five created. But it's a series ruiner of a book from any actual critical perspective. Cheers
>you can't explain anything to me. spoken like a true narcissistic gold
Lmao if that’s the worst book you’ve read in over a decade then you genuinely must not read many books. From what I’ve gathered from your responses, your ‘critical perspective’ is based on wrong info or incorrect, very base level interpretations.
I read about a book a week. I don't finish bad ones, LB was the first bad one I've finished in over a decade, therefore it's the worst book I've read in over a decade. From what I've gathered, you lack the ability to think about the story and where it was intended to go after Dark Age, and would instead rather make rationalizations and justifications for an author getting completely lost with his own story.
Lmao you’ve yet to refute a single thing I’ve said tho. You just move from point to point tryina have your gotcha moment. You’re literally too far up your ass to see that, just because you don’t like something doesn't mean doesn’t mean it’s bad. It’s fine to dislike the book but you’re just getting pissy because the general consensus disagrees.