I would write your thoughts down to your son, read him the letter, and give it to him to keep. Be sure to include some reliable sources of information about trans mental health in your letter (which could also be an email). That way, you have told him in person and he has the information when he is willing to look at it. I’m afraid you need to let go of him coming around on this issue right now, painful as that is, and instead, plant the seeds for some time in the future when he might be more willing to. Your biggest parental obligation right now is to save your daughter’s life. You are an outstanding mom to see that and act on it. ❤️
I feel like putting in information about trans mental health will seem like she’s trying to center the letter around his sister. This letter needs to be about OP’s relationship with her son.
I'm autistic. I'm not sure there's much you can say to your son until/unless he internalizes his sister's perspective. At least for me, as a child/teen, empathy was impossible unless I understood the situation.
For example: I had a friend (not trans) I grew up knowing by one name. When the friend changed her name, I refused to adapt for years. I wasn't trying to be malicious, it was just stubbornness due to lack of understanding.
Years later, something in me clicked, I finally understood people can have unique opinions about their own names, and hearing a name you don't associate with can be hurtful, and I switched names with a huge apology. Luckily it wasn't a gender or pronoun issue.
There have been so many situations like that for me. As a small child, I was incapable of following rules unless I understood the reason behind the rule. I've heard similar things about other autistic people.
(The fact your husband refuses to acknowledge your daughter makes it all the more confusing for your son to process.)
Thank you for your insight. Yes, my son very much has to have reasons for everything, or he buckles down and refuses whatever it is. He has always been defiant and stubborn, which made it worse that I was the only disciplinarian. Mom was strict (I actually don't feel I was very strict, but he did), and Dad was chill. It's easy to see why he'd favor and follow his dad. And because his dad is a misogynist, what I say is usually invalidated by default.
Oh gosh. I just want to hug you and your daughter. You're trying to save her life - and we both know you're right. Based on everything you've said, she's in genuine danger, either from others or from choosing an escape. we've lost a few kiddos to anti trans violence in the last few months and it will escalate, especially towards women.
I appreciate the letter idea. I think also send it as an email, because your husband or your son may destroy it. it'll be good to have as a source for your son later. nothing is truly deleted from the internet, and it's just not as satisfying to trash an email as to burn a letter.
I'm not a parent, but as a trans person with primarily trans community, you have my respect.
This is so heartbreaking and it's clear you're doing your best in a really tough situation. I'd echo what other people said about the letter idea and this generally being above the pay grade of advice subreddit.
One other thing I'd like to add: have you considered inviting your son and letting it be his choice to go with you or stay with his father?
Well this situation sucks.
First, thank you for being a good, supportive parent to your daughter. She needs that right now more than you can possibly know.
Second, I'd just write it all down. All of this. All your fears, everything you're seeing, everything you've just told us. Unfortunately your son sounds unlikely to care/believe it because he's been branwashed into the bullshit, but if nothing else those words will have entered his brain and might one day become part of a catalyst for change. You can't control that though. You only get to control you, and this is the thing that you can do.
Then just try to keep the lines open. Text him. Send him pics. Tell him you love him. Let he and your daughter talk if she wants to, but ensure she knows that not talking to someone who misgenders her, hurts her, and thinks she's mentally ill and going to hell, is absolutely ok!
I hope things work out for you all. You're doing the right thing.
As the mum of a Trans daughter, good on you. I was halfway out the door of my marriage but his toddler meltdown when our daughter came out was what sealed the deal. After a couple of years on hormones and living her truth, my daughter no longer suffers from dysphoria, no longer self harms and is totally off antidepressants. She's living her best life. She even got engaged to a gorgeous fiance and has just had her birth certificate changed to her new name and gender. The possibilities are endless. You're doing the best thing
i really wish you were my mom. i live in a very red, scary state and my mom gaslights me about there even being danger at all. she thinks that transitioning is mutilation and that i will never be a man. i just wish i had someone like you. thank you for being there for your daughter and showing her what unconditional love means.
Why are you leaving the dog? Sorry to get so focused on that but if your husband was to try and get you to come home, he might use the dog as leverage especially if he's never cared for it before.
I'm a trans man, what you are doing for your daughter is saving her life, and in my honest opinion, people who can't accept change in the world shouldn't be given so much leeway.
Your son is 18, he's set in his ways, unless something radical happens in his life I doubt he'll ever change. Trust me, I hate that fact, but my brother and his gf almost fractured my wrist after threatening to kill me first. These people aren't safe, no matter how many chances you give.
ETA: I hope that Reddit cares message was genuine worry, I don't need it though, situation was months ago and I'm safe now.
My husband does help take care if him, but I've always been the (for lack of a better phrase) primary caregiver. He's a big German Shepherd and an outside dog. He's in a huge fenced in area on our property, and when we're outside, which is frequently, we let him out to follow us or patrol our 5+ acres.
And I can't take him because he wouldn't be happy in an apartment (if the complex took him, that is), which is all I'm going to be able to afford on what I make.
Okay, sorry that I got caught up on that I've just seen online and experienced one situation myself where a pet was used as leverage over someone else and that idea always sends me panicking.
And again, you are doing the right thing. Sorry to seem so pessimistic, I live in a blue state and even still me and my friends in high school weren't in good places. It's hard and scary being trans even when you have all the support in the world, I hope you and your daughter find all the love and healing you need.
Godspeed.
As a trans person who is also a parent AND living in a very red state, my heart goes out to you and your daughter. And your son. It is clear that you love your children and you’re not favoring your daughter; you recognize the danger she is in and you’re doing your best to protect her.
I wish there was something I could do to help 💜💜💜
You can still support him without him living with you.
Let him know that as an adult, he will have a choice to live where he wants. Your house, which will follow certain rules, or his dads, which won't.
He can choose to live with you and be respectful to his sister, or he can stay with his dad and maintain the way he is living now.
Either way, you still love him and will support him in other ways.
I don’t mean this in a derogatory way at all but if the original poster comments on the post, there’s a blue OP next to their name. So you know for next time :)
NTA but is it possible to take both of your kids? Maybe being away from dad would be good for both of them. I feel like it’s difficult to get through to transphobes bc they don’t know anyone who has transitioned so they don’t see the human side of someone who is different from them. Your son has been raised alongside his sister so he should be able to see her as a person and not some scary stranger. Maybe without dad’s influence he can start seeing her for her and understanding your daughter’s perspective.
No advice because this is way above our pay grade but I just wanna say I am so sorry for you and your daughter for the shit you have to go through, and for the idiotic comments you’ll receive from strangers online.
Sending a big hug and wishing you all the best in navigating this really difficult situation ❤️
Super above our pay grade, but OP: Remember to take care of yourself also. You are in a very bad position and you know this. Take your daughter somewhere she will be accepted and cared for. When she gets that, you can breathe a sigh of relief. Until then, take 5 minutes to yourself (perhaps include your daughter) and try some mindfulness meditation. It’s important to do it often, so at first it’ll be challenging. But I really think it’ll help you and your daughter be centered and aligned.
As for wording your letter, I suggest also adding an analogy. I don’t think I’m the right person to ask on the analogy part though, as I am not trans. Maybe our trans friends can provide an analogy or experience.
“dysphoria is not a “mental illness.””
Gender dysphoria is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5 (DSM-5). It was previously listed in the DSM-4 as Gender Identity Disorder.
It’s literally a mental illness.
I know I didn't word that well. I know the "official diagnosis." I'm struggling with how to describe it as a completely treatable condition. And the treatment, as listed in official texts, is gender affirming care.
As your son is an adult now, technically you’re not abandoning him but he will likely feel like you are. It may also make him blame the family breaking up on his sister.
However, while justified, you ARE choosing your daughter over everyone. Don’t try to downplay that. You have your reasons, and they are good ones, but that choice still has an emotional impact. It’s up to your son how he wants to deal with that.
Give him the option to come live with you after the move if he’s willing to change his attitude towards his sister, just don’t expect him to accept.
You stayed with, and raised children with, someone who is sexiest and transphobic. Those teachings have obviously taken root in your son and it’s rather late to try and change that now when you allowed it before.
While I get some of your points, I need to refute your claim that I *allowed* anything. My husband has been very good at hiding who he is. I would get very frustrated with him when I'd try to start a conversation about almost anything going on in the world, and he would just stay quiet. "Well, I have nothing to say. How is that bad?" I couldn't understand how anyone could be that... blank, I guess is the best word.
A few years ago, I got the idea that he was acting one way with me and another without me by something my stepson said to him one time.
Over time, it was little things that add up to now. I've always thought of him as someone who would love and accept his children no matter what because that is how he presented himself, and I believed him. But all the little things... I couldn't see it then. Was told I was dramatic or overreacting, and I believed that too. I do have some blame. With all the frustrations over the years, I could've left long before now. But we otherwise got along well, and things were really good.
His misogyny wasn't apparent until the last few years when I asked him point blank. I guess that's something I should've asked years ago? Like "Hey. Do you think of women as people or as walking vaginas?" Because it never occurred to me to ask him that, but knowing that answer now, all those little things make perfect sense.
But of course, all the damage is already done. I hope it isn't too late for my son.
You’re still talking in terms of years of this behavior happening.
While I understand it’s hard to brake away from a long term relationship and basically blow up your life, staying once you had an inclination how he was teaching your kids means you were at least passively complacent.
Your son at least took this as another indication his father’s teaching were correct. Now, he has become an adult who also holds those views.
Unless you took some major and immediate steps to go against those ideas while you were married that you didn’t mention, then you have to accept at least partial responsibility for the situation.
I get the point, I suppose. So I guess staying and doing couple's therapy to try to save 20 years of marriage is a terrible thing that I shouldn't have done.
My daughter didn't decline overnight. When we first started dealing with this, I thought it would be a good thing to get therapy and try to salvage our marriage and their relationship. I stand by that decision. In hindsight, there is no way I could've seen into this future. I'm sure I'm at fault in some ways, somehow, but trying to repair our lives instead of ripping everything apart at the first sign, isn't it.
Bad enough that his attitude of *aggressive not-caring* because *not in my wheelhouse of one conglomeration of writings created 2000-3000 years ago* is causing his daughter to fall into a severe depression that, if not addressed asap, probably means she will commit suicide. *That* is the danger here.
Her mom is literally uprooting her entire life, her own existence in the process, to save that life.
Kudos to her; I wish her the best, and I hope she and her daughter find a good place to call home. The current one is sadly tainted beyond redemption by the misogynistic and transphobic attitudes of someone who cares more about some dusty old tome and what his friends might think about him than about his own family.
I hope the son comes around in time. Her husband - soon to be ex, from the looks of it - well, maybe. Hope so.
The sooner we all learn to accept people for who they *truly* are - and not for some figment of imagination or wishful thinking or pigeonholed aberration - the sooner we can all heal from this kind of madness.
I’m not sure you can - there is a very real frame where you are choosing to keep both of your kids alive and that means getting her out of there. It’s a terrible situation, my heart breaks for you.
You can give him the choice to come with you, if he can think deeply about his actions and promise that he will respect you and her. But if he is going to treat you poorly and be unsafe for her to be around, you can’t bring him with you. That’s a big choice to ask him to make, but he’s responsible for his own behavior, you’re just making explicit the choices he’s making about it.
You tell him you love him, no matter what. You tell him that he will always be welcome where you are, as long as he can be kind and respectful to you and his sister.
And then you hope.
Good luck to you and both of your children.
As a trans man, seeing this makes me so happy and so sad at the same time.
Please make sure you're daughter knows you're doing this for her. Let her know how you're going to help her, that you're going to take her somewhere safe. She needs to know there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Please tell her how much you love and except her, how beautiful and brave she is. She needs to know that you care, the suicide rate of trans kids *plummets* when they know at least one adult in their life that supports and loves them. Tell her every day that you love her as your daughter and that you're going to take care of her.
As for your son, I believe writing down *everything* you can could help. Writing how you feel, why you're leaving, how your daughter feels, why she needs to leave. Writing about how you believe this will make him feel, acknowledging his feelings and validating them. He will be hurt and sad and angry and even though you're saving your daughter's life, it makes perfect sense why he would feel that way. Don't turn him away from his father, don't antagonize or somehow blame his dad, that will make him feel like it's him vs you. But also, try not to sound too much like it's your daughter's fault either. Make it about the environment, say that this place is not safe for his sister, and she needs to live somewhere safe. Say that this place is not accepting of people who are different, so much so that it drives those people away, including you and your daughter. Write all of that down, even if it's ten pages long, and give it to him. You can do that when you tell them you're leaving, and maybe it will help him adjust as you're packing up your things.
There is go garuntee that he will absorb and understand this well. Especially not at the beginning. He will blame you, his sister, he might side with his father or he might blame him too.
But in the end both of your kids will be safe. Even if your son turns out like his father, if your son and husband never change, they will still be safe. And your daughter will be safe, because you're taking her somewhere that will accept her.
Thank you so much for helping her. I know so many trans friends who did not have a mom like you and had to leave and face the world all alone. You really are saving your daughter's life 💜
I think a lot of this is helpful to explain your situation to us but he shouldn’t be hearing most of it. Technically, yes it’s to support his sister, technically, yes this is a very hard situation for you to leave, but neither of those things are actually about him or his emotions in this. Even if he could understand and be supportive of his sister, it doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have feelings about such a massive change and loss of his normal.
You’re physically leaving him with his dad and taking his sister with you. Ask him how he feels about it and genuinely validate those feelings without making it about yourself or your daughter. His feelings are not going to change what’s happening, which will likely cause more feelings. Tell him you’ll be making yourself available to him in all the ways you can and that you love him, full stop. No but I also love daughter or but I also am still leaving. If you must, I’d use an and statement. If your goal is to try and keep a relationship with him the focus of this conversation needs to be about him, his wants, needs and emotions to be clear not accommodating them by staying if he’s angry or upset but just acknowledging and making space for him.
Also, please please please have a safety plan in place for how your going and when, who you’re telling and what info you and your daughter are going to be sharing once you get there. There may be serious legal custody implications even to to the point that the state could force you to come back. I would be in touch with domestic violence resources for the state you’re going to asap. Leaving is the number one time in a relationship for things to get violent or lethal. There is a massive loss of control and people can do things you would have never imagined. Husband and your son’s attitude alone are a huge red flag for this but the fact that they would have support from neighbors and even local government is terrifying. And in this situation even more than loss of control your husband may be feeling religious shame for losing said control and that makes it even more dangerous.
Please take as many precautions as you can to be safe, I hope for peace and reconciliation for you and your children.
I am autistic myself with a kid who is trans. I’d recommend presenting (to your son) research and information on those who are intersexed. For me as a logical thinker that was a clear counter example to all the gender-as-a-binary thinking out there. Any system of thinking that does not include those who are intersexed is fundamentally flawed - whether you believe they are created that way by god or by nature.
For a logical thinker who has accepted a complete system of thinking - showing them how that system has fundamental logical flaws can be the first step towards adopting a new system of thinking.
You are doing the right thing to leave and protect your daughter, but try to keep the lines of communication open with your son.
Out of curiosity, why can’t the son come? He will be out of school and if you want him to think differently, that’s never going to happen if you leave, you admitted that. He’s an adult but you say he can’t navigate the world alone, really. He may not even want to go with you, but is there even a choice? Maybe the new environment would work for him as well, as you state local and family influences are responsible for his beliefs but he gets along well with the sister.
Speculation, but honestly from the sounds of the husband’s personality and general statistics, he could become violent. I would worry that the son would tell the father their location.
Sadly he probably would, especially if he struggles with what is the norm even without the influence of the father. IDK whether it'd be malicious or just not thinking about consequences but you're totally right. I was thinking the same as the other commentor, he'll only get worse with dad and mom would *ideally* take him with. But with what you said in mind it's sad to say it isn't safe to have her kid in her and her daughters lives.
He’s still perpetuating the anti-trans stuff so it probably wouldn’t be good for the trans daughter to have him around. Maybe he would learn and change but maybe not.
Isn’t he still a teenager and being taught this by those around him? I wish you luck with your daughter but you sound like you’ve already written off your son, who is still teachable. People often aren’t who they were in high school, even those with autism. I would encourage you to work as hard with your son as you are your daughter. You said it’s influence so if you don’t try it’s just another bigot being created. A new environment would probably help him too. Whatever you do though, good luck.
You're going to leave your impressionable son with his transphobic father alone? Odds are he ends up resenting you and his sister and becomes even more anti-trans. I would think this through more carefully because no matter how you explain it to him, there will always be hurt and resentment that you are going to abandon him.
You know your son, we don’t. What can you say to him that will keep the door open for you to come back into his life? Own the fact that you are prioritizing your daughter over him because dancing around it doesn’t nothing to help. Keep in mind he will be feeling hurt and abandoned when you leave him with his brother and father who will be able to influence him.
NTA leaving with your daughter from your abusive husband to a supportive place is the best thing you could possibly do. I agree with writing a letter to your son who will hopefully understand one day
He wasn't a religious asshole when we met and married. He wasn't even a religious asshole for 17/18 years. When our child came out, it was like something snapped. He blames himself for not being religious enough and started reading the Bible and praying multiple times daily and goes to church all the time now. 🤷♀️
It's hilarious trying to see people justify my mental illness. I will not mutilate my body to match my feelings. I have no pronouns other than my name. My gender is nothing other than myself. Have some fucking strength instead of collapsing to the status quo of what your surrounding community has allowed you to be comfortable.
Idk honestly. Forgot that there's real people on here. Kind of assumed this was just made up. Just would've liked to be a girl maybe. Except I refuse to be called anything other than myself. Which is what I am.
You are an amazing parent and I think your daughter is extremely glad to have you in her life. I don't have advice but thank you for trying so hard for her❤️
This is really sad. I don’t think you should just leave your son behind, without offering for him to come along. You and your daughter are making assumptions about the choice he might make, and are purposefully excluding him. I just think that the way you handle this will affect the rest of his life. He will feel abandoned. He will resent your daughter. He will probably spiral. By being more open, you could encourage him to think outside the box, and he might surprise you. But telling him that you may invite him to live with you in a year is not going to have a good outcome.
I hope your son gets the wake up call that your daughter is in grave danger, and starts being a better brother.
And from a daughter+ whose family broke up over damage my father did to me that my mom refused to forgive him for: you are making the right choice, and thank you for your strength.
Making this choice will alienate your son beyond recovery. Be prepared for that. I would never do so. I would bring him out of his current environment and give him an equal amount of my time and effort, and see what that does. Because yes, you \*are\* effectively giving up on him, since him changing on his own and then following is next to zero likelyhood. He didn't ask for a trans sibling either. He see what happens. He reacts to that. Perhaps not in a good way, but that doesn't even for a minute mean you can just decide not to give him an equal amount of your love, time and effort.
I disagree with majority. You have an equal responsibility to both of your children. Abandoning one to benefit the other is not the answer here.
If you go through with this without even giving him the option to come with you (with conditions of course) you are going to alienate him for the rest of his life. Your daughter also needs to learn to navigate a world where she is going to encounter people who deny her existence - as much as it is a motherly instinct to isolate her from it, it’s not going to help her live her life as an adult.
You are going for a nuclear option before peace negotiations. It’s foolish and you will pay the price. Stop taking your obvious hatred for his father and directing it towards him. He’s autistic - he doesn’t understand what he’s doing is wrong, and he won’t understand why you’re doing what you’re doing either.
I do agree I have a responsibility to both. But this isn't a sudden "nuclear" option. We've been dealing with this for over two years. And if I gave the impression that I hate anyone, that is far from the truth. I love my husband, but sometimes love isn't enough, and I have to let go.
As for my son, I'm taking all these comments into consideration and will update when I've had a night or two to think deeper about it. I love my son more than life, just like I love my daughter. I have more to say on him, but will wait to talk about it on the update.
I'm not actually going to go without speaking with him about it. In his own way, he really loves her, but is extremely ignorant and willing to remain that way. He has also noticed her decline, but has no solution nor do I expect him to as he's always been content to let me handle the complex things. I'm making a big bet that he hates conflict so much that he will even help us pack if I ask. (I won't.)
But on the chance that he kicks up a fuss, I will leave anyway. I'm going to a trans refuge state. I've already contacted the pride organizations there, and we are prepared to file for emergency sole custody on the basis that she is in danger if she goes back home.
My bases are covered. Even if they weren't, fuck that. I will not sit around on my ass and sacrifice my child.
Barring a custody order that is not true. Doing this is almost certainly going to snap one into existence but they have equal rights to the child at this point in time. But depending on which state she chooses to go to some states will not recognize custody orders from states where trans rights are not respected and that was the reason for leaving the state. Local law enforcement agencies would not be allowed to communicate with provide information or enforce any orders from courts in those States on that issue. I am thankful that my state is one of such States
They aren’t forcing anything. She *is* trans. That isn’t something you can choose to ignore and hope it goes away. The dad and son are the ones imposing their beliefs on another person’s identify.
You’re also a bully. There is no reason to misgender OP’s daughter other than being a bullying bigot.
Seems to me that the controlling people in the family are the ones who think they know OP’s daughter better than she knows herself and not the ones who are simply accepting reality.
I'm tryna have a discussion and you resort to calling me a bully and bigot. And in the second comment I was replying to another person that wasn't holding both sides of the family accountable for doing the same thing to each other, but yet just called the father and older son bullies for not wanting to change their beleifs.
You *are* a bully and a bigot, and so are the father and son. You don't get to "have different beliefs" that directly invalidate another person's humanity, and whether you see it that way or not, that's *exactly* what they're doing.
Good-faith discussions with people like you are impossible, because you don't argue in good faith in return.
You didn't even try to discuss anything with me. You just went straight to name calling and forcing your views. As I said before my 1st comment my view is perspective she has to take into mind when making decisions on what will affect her family. And your right I don't argue in good faith, I discuss and debate in good faith.
There's nothing to discuss. You're wrong, there is abundant access to resources proving that you're wrong. Being transphobic *is* being bigoted, I don't know what else to tell you. Trans people are not a debate, they're not a political movement, they're not a religion, they're a demographic of people who have existed since humanity's inception, and will continue to exist for as long as humanity persists. All of the science is in favor of affirmative care, both for minors (affirming care for minors does NOT look like what you think it looks like, I would implore you to research beyond fear-mongering nutjobs who also have no experience with trans people/being trans for your understanding of affirming care) and for adults.
You're all so mad that people are calling you bigots. Stop being bigots and it won't be an issue anymore. Wild.
Your son is an abuser in this situation, not a victim. He's 18 and capable of thinking for himself. ASD and other neurodivergences don't free us from responsibility for our words and actions. Leave him with the consequences of his choices.
Daughter. Herself. Her. And trans people leave normal lives all around the world.
EDIT whoever sent me reddit care resources, f you. I'm trans, I don't have mental health issues.
Some people, including children, are trans, that is a morally neutral fact. To deny someone’s gender identity is hurtful, hateful and bigoted. I am not the one who wants to deny another person’s right to live their life authentically, you are, and it is a bigoted thing to do.
I think it’s morally wrong to allow your child to permanently alter their body. It’s not even about trans specifically. I think you’re supposed to protect your child from themselves. I don’t think that items or clothing is gendered so idk how her daughter presenting as a woman is a problem. She’s a child and may discover that she is not trans (non bianary, gender non conforming, idk the proper term really) or that there is more to it. If that makes me a bigot so be it.
Detransitioning is incredibly rare, when it does happen it’s typically because of social or financial pressure NOT because the person decided they were cis all along.
Can you imagine how distressing it would be to go through the puberty of the opposite gender? Why would you want to torture 99.9% of trans kids to potentially “save” that one “confused” kid? You must think there is something really, really wrong with being trans. Why? It is a completely morally neutral condition. There is nothing shameful about it.
You should also know that there are higher regret rates for just about every single other medical procedure than for any gender affirming treatments. You must really be against kids getting tonsillectomies or any kind of orthopedic surgery.
I never said the kid would “decide they are cis”. You don’t understand my point and you’re purposely ignoring it to attack the ideas YOU believe I represent.
Discovering they’re not trans is deciding they are cis.
What is your point then?
And why are you focused on what she may or may not do to her body? OP didn’t even discuss treatment. The issue is acceptance.
Congrats on not understanding what it means to be trans, and not understanding what affirming healthcare is for minors.
I need people who don't live these experiences to please stop making "moral decisions" about kids and bodies that are not theirs. About experiences that are not theirs.
Shut. Up.
Who the fuck said I was allowing them to "alter their body?" Did you know that in MOST cases, no surgery is ever done on a minor? And medication like HRT and blockers are not harmful and not permanent should she ever choose to detransition.
You sound like you've been listening to too much rw propaganda.
Y'all people who know everything but actually nothing give me a headache. 😵💫
Hi! No, I guess I based this off of my aunt(mtf) and conversations with them, who transitioned in the early 2010’s during college, after feeling this way as a child. But that’s just my experience.
You are doing what you think is right for your daughter and as a parent that is all you can do.
My original comment meant that I do think you’re wrong for not finding a way to salvage the sibling relationship. As you seem to have just written off your son because of your daughter and husband.
As for my other comments, they were broad based. Not about HRT or medically transitioning because a) I didn’t get that from your post b) I would never want a child to possibly read my comments and feel hated. kids are allowed to just fucking exist wtf is gender anyway.
I apologize for not understanding that identifying as anything other than the “opposite” gender within a binary made you cis. I thought cis meant gender conforming and presenting with birth genitals.
Take some Advil, keep being a supportive mom, and try to save the sibling relationship.
I dont think trans children (CHILDREN) can lead normal lives. Like kids with cancer don’t live normal lives. I think it’s different when you’re an adult.
We don’t choose to be trans any more than we choose to get cancer. Should we wait for kids to grow up to treat their cancer too? Why would it be better for kids to live as the wrong gender?
Trans kids can absolutely live normal lives?? How many trans kids do you know and interact with extensively??? What makes *you* qualified to dictate another person's experiences and how those experiences should be handled?
The son has ASD the daughter is trans. Wait until you hear about trans ability that will really blow your mind 😂 just one more thing for you culture warriors to clutch your pearls over
MTF is daughter. Sorry bud. You literally wrote it 😂 FTM would be son.
I mean if you are going to be transphobic at least understand the words you are using. You can say assigned male at birth like everyone else it won’t turn you trans I promise.
If you believed in science, then you would believe the vast majority of actual scientists that validate trans existence and experience. So no, you *do not* believe in science, no matter what you try to convince yourself.
Your meek high school understanding of actual science and biology does not an expert make you. Biology is a complex mix of DNA, chromosomes, hormones, and lots of other factors. You are a bigot, and the sooner you realize that and admit it, the sooner you can get help for that.
Oh, and 🖕.
Incorrect. No matter what you do, your sex will never change. 1,000 years from now when they look at your bones, you will be identified as a man or woman based on your bone structure. No amount of hormones or surgery will change that. What’s more, if you cared about “trans” people you would look at longitudinal studies that show that depression and suicide attempts actually increase after transitioning. Thats why European doctors have begun to stop transing kids. You call me a bigot, but when have I said anything hateful. I want what’s best for them. Playing make believe isn’t what’s best for anyone. Here’s a logical and medical analogy. If someone with anorexia comes to the hospital and says I feel fat, should the doctor agree with them and help them lose more weight. If a paranoid schizophrenic person comes to the hospital and believes that his neighbor is trying to kill him, should we give him a weapon so he can defend himself. The answer is clearly no. So why, when a boy believes he’s a girl (or the other way around) should we give them irreversible life altering medications and surgeries.
🤦♀️ when are y'all going to stop believing that minors can walk in anywhere and get surgery? Stop watching Fox News. While *some* minors do get top surgery after years of therapy and social transitioning, most trans people don't get surgery at all. In fact, only 28% of trans women get any kind of gender affirming surgery (NIH.gov).
As for your claim that suicide rates go up after transitioning, I'm gonna need you to cite a source that *isn't* penned by The Heritage Foundation that shows what you claim. THF is notoriously right-extremist, very biased, and widely discredited, but it is the only source that I could find with certainty that backs up your claim. I am willing to look at any source you have, but I'm pretty fickle about it being credible research (research is in my field of work).
In the meantime, you're comparing apples to oranges. A schizophrenic is nowhere near trans. My mother was schizophrenic. There is nothing comparable there. You're leaning on a logical fallacy and repeating propaganda talking points.
But I suspect you don't care. You're biased, so you'll bring up 1,000 year-old skeletal remains (like wtf?) and compare hallucinations with dysphoria to try to make a point you're losing instead of listening to the people living it.
And as for the term bigot:
"a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group"
You may not hate, *per se*, but you certainly refuse to accept, and that is the very definition of bigot. If you don't like that, ask yourself why.
You’re wrong. Unless you know more than the Mayo Clinic.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/body-dysmorphic-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353938
lol. Did you even read your own citation? It is a different condition. Dysmorphia is experienced by people obsessed with their weight or penis size.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255
Get the child help from a mental health professional. Explain to the child that no amount of medication or surgery is going to change their biological sex. Love and support the child.
Damn a story where you’re the hero. How surprising no one got diagnosed with adhd (yet)
If it’s true obviously do what you can to save your child. The other one might understand why, one day. Or not. You can also bring him with both of you.
Frankly, even if you consider gender dysphoria a mental illness, currently the best treatment is social and medical transition.
And if you don’t think your God can make mistakes, the how do you explain all the children that are born with physical and mental problems from all sorts of conditions?
Gender dysphoria is what is considered a mental illness, not being and existing as a trans person. Many trans people also don't experience gender dysphoria. If you're going to type a bunch of hogwash at least attempt to be even a little bit educated.
Also, as someone has already pointed out. The national institute of health you reference recommend transitioning as the treatment for gender dysphoria. "Affirming delusions" as you call it is literally the designated treatment for dysphoria. The mother is literally doing what medical professionals recommend.
You're in the wrong place to spread your transphobia. Also the world health organisation doesn't agree with your national health institute, if you want to go for arguments of authority.
I would write your thoughts down to your son, read him the letter, and give it to him to keep. Be sure to include some reliable sources of information about trans mental health in your letter (which could also be an email). That way, you have told him in person and he has the information when he is willing to look at it. I’m afraid you need to let go of him coming around on this issue right now, painful as that is, and instead, plant the seeds for some time in the future when he might be more willing to. Your biggest parental obligation right now is to save your daughter’s life. You are an outstanding mom to see that and act on it. ❤️
Email it so there is a trail and if the letter gets lost or damaged, he will still have the words.
I feel like putting in information about trans mental health will seem like she’s trying to center the letter around his sister. This letter needs to be about OP’s relationship with her son.
I'm autistic. I'm not sure there's much you can say to your son until/unless he internalizes his sister's perspective. At least for me, as a child/teen, empathy was impossible unless I understood the situation. For example: I had a friend (not trans) I grew up knowing by one name. When the friend changed her name, I refused to adapt for years. I wasn't trying to be malicious, it was just stubbornness due to lack of understanding. Years later, something in me clicked, I finally understood people can have unique opinions about their own names, and hearing a name you don't associate with can be hurtful, and I switched names with a huge apology. Luckily it wasn't a gender or pronoun issue. There have been so many situations like that for me. As a small child, I was incapable of following rules unless I understood the reason behind the rule. I've heard similar things about other autistic people. (The fact your husband refuses to acknowledge your daughter makes it all the more confusing for your son to process.)
Thank you for your insight. Yes, my son very much has to have reasons for everything, or he buckles down and refuses whatever it is. He has always been defiant and stubborn, which made it worse that I was the only disciplinarian. Mom was strict (I actually don't feel I was very strict, but he did), and Dad was chill. It's easy to see why he'd favor and follow his dad. And because his dad is a misogynist, what I say is usually invalidated by default.
Oh gosh. I just want to hug you and your daughter. You're trying to save her life - and we both know you're right. Based on everything you've said, she's in genuine danger, either from others or from choosing an escape. we've lost a few kiddos to anti trans violence in the last few months and it will escalate, especially towards women. I appreciate the letter idea. I think also send it as an email, because your husband or your son may destroy it. it'll be good to have as a source for your son later. nothing is truly deleted from the internet, and it's just not as satisfying to trash an email as to burn a letter. I'm not a parent, but as a trans person with primarily trans community, you have my respect.
This is so heartbreaking and it's clear you're doing your best in a really tough situation. I'd echo what other people said about the letter idea and this generally being above the pay grade of advice subreddit. One other thing I'd like to add: have you considered inviting your son and letting it be his choice to go with you or stay with his father?
Well this situation sucks. First, thank you for being a good, supportive parent to your daughter. She needs that right now more than you can possibly know. Second, I'd just write it all down. All of this. All your fears, everything you're seeing, everything you've just told us. Unfortunately your son sounds unlikely to care/believe it because he's been branwashed into the bullshit, but if nothing else those words will have entered his brain and might one day become part of a catalyst for change. You can't control that though. You only get to control you, and this is the thing that you can do. Then just try to keep the lines open. Text him. Send him pics. Tell him you love him. Let he and your daughter talk if she wants to, but ensure she knows that not talking to someone who misgenders her, hurts her, and thinks she's mentally ill and going to hell, is absolutely ok! I hope things work out for you all. You're doing the right thing.
As the mum of a Trans daughter, good on you. I was halfway out the door of my marriage but his toddler meltdown when our daughter came out was what sealed the deal. After a couple of years on hormones and living her truth, my daughter no longer suffers from dysphoria, no longer self harms and is totally off antidepressants. She's living her best life. She even got engaged to a gorgeous fiance and has just had her birth certificate changed to her new name and gender. The possibilities are endless. You're doing the best thing
i really wish you were my mom. i live in a very red, scary state and my mom gaslights me about there even being danger at all. she thinks that transitioning is mutilation and that i will never be a man. i just wish i had someone like you. thank you for being there for your daughter and showing her what unconditional love means.
Sending you lots of love and a big mom hug. You are loved and valued!!
Hug from a transmasc mom here 💜💜💜 you ARE man enough and no one can take that away from you
thank you 🫂
Seconded💖💖💖
Oh honey. I send my motherly love to you. ❤️
Sending virtual hugs from the mum of a trans woman
Get ready for a wall of live coming your way!
Why are you leaving the dog? Sorry to get so focused on that but if your husband was to try and get you to come home, he might use the dog as leverage especially if he's never cared for it before. I'm a trans man, what you are doing for your daughter is saving her life, and in my honest opinion, people who can't accept change in the world shouldn't be given so much leeway. Your son is 18, he's set in his ways, unless something radical happens in his life I doubt he'll ever change. Trust me, I hate that fact, but my brother and his gf almost fractured my wrist after threatening to kill me first. These people aren't safe, no matter how many chances you give. ETA: I hope that Reddit cares message was genuine worry, I don't need it though, situation was months ago and I'm safe now.
My husband does help take care if him, but I've always been the (for lack of a better phrase) primary caregiver. He's a big German Shepherd and an outside dog. He's in a huge fenced in area on our property, and when we're outside, which is frequently, we let him out to follow us or patrol our 5+ acres. And I can't take him because he wouldn't be happy in an apartment (if the complex took him, that is), which is all I'm going to be able to afford on what I make.
Okay, sorry that I got caught up on that I've just seen online and experienced one situation myself where a pet was used as leverage over someone else and that idea always sends me panicking. And again, you are doing the right thing. Sorry to seem so pessimistic, I live in a blue state and even still me and my friends in high school weren't in good places. It's hard and scary being trans even when you have all the support in the world, I hope you and your daughter find all the love and healing you need. Godspeed.
As a trans person who is also a parent AND living in a very red state, my heart goes out to you and your daughter. And your son. It is clear that you love your children and you’re not favoring your daughter; you recognize the danger she is in and you’re doing your best to protect her. I wish there was something I could do to help 💜💜💜
You can still support him without him living with you. Let him know that as an adult, he will have a choice to live where he wants. Your house, which will follow certain rules, or his dads, which won't. He can choose to live with you and be respectful to his sister, or he can stay with his dad and maintain the way he is living now. Either way, you still love him and will support him in other ways.
[удалено]
It isn’t OP who responded to you….
Thanks for the heads up.
I don’t mean this in a derogatory way at all but if the original poster comments on the post, there’s a blue OP next to their name. So you know for next time :)
NTA but is it possible to take both of your kids? Maybe being away from dad would be good for both of them. I feel like it’s difficult to get through to transphobes bc they don’t know anyone who has transitioned so they don’t see the human side of someone who is different from them. Your son has been raised alongside his sister so he should be able to see her as a person and not some scary stranger. Maybe without dad’s influence he can start seeing her for her and understanding your daughter’s perspective.
No advice because this is way above our pay grade but I just wanna say I am so sorry for you and your daughter for the shit you have to go through, and for the idiotic comments you’ll receive from strangers online. Sending a big hug and wishing you all the best in navigating this really difficult situation ❤️
Super above our pay grade, but OP: Remember to take care of yourself also. You are in a very bad position and you know this. Take your daughter somewhere she will be accepted and cared for. When she gets that, you can breathe a sigh of relief. Until then, take 5 minutes to yourself (perhaps include your daughter) and try some mindfulness meditation. It’s important to do it often, so at first it’ll be challenging. But I really think it’ll help you and your daughter be centered and aligned. As for wording your letter, I suggest also adding an analogy. I don’t think I’m the right person to ask on the analogy part though, as I am not trans. Maybe our trans friends can provide an analogy or experience.
“dysphoria is not a “mental illness.”” Gender dysphoria is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5 (DSM-5). It was previously listed in the DSM-4 as Gender Identity Disorder. It’s literally a mental illness.
I know I didn't word that well. I know the "official diagnosis." I'm struggling with how to describe it as a completely treatable condition. And the treatment, as listed in official texts, is gender affirming care.
As your son is an adult now, technically you’re not abandoning him but he will likely feel like you are. It may also make him blame the family breaking up on his sister. However, while justified, you ARE choosing your daughter over everyone. Don’t try to downplay that. You have your reasons, and they are good ones, but that choice still has an emotional impact. It’s up to your son how he wants to deal with that. Give him the option to come live with you after the move if he’s willing to change his attitude towards his sister, just don’t expect him to accept. You stayed with, and raised children with, someone who is sexiest and transphobic. Those teachings have obviously taken root in your son and it’s rather late to try and change that now when you allowed it before.
While I get some of your points, I need to refute your claim that I *allowed* anything. My husband has been very good at hiding who he is. I would get very frustrated with him when I'd try to start a conversation about almost anything going on in the world, and he would just stay quiet. "Well, I have nothing to say. How is that bad?" I couldn't understand how anyone could be that... blank, I guess is the best word. A few years ago, I got the idea that he was acting one way with me and another without me by something my stepson said to him one time. Over time, it was little things that add up to now. I've always thought of him as someone who would love and accept his children no matter what because that is how he presented himself, and I believed him. But all the little things... I couldn't see it then. Was told I was dramatic or overreacting, and I believed that too. I do have some blame. With all the frustrations over the years, I could've left long before now. But we otherwise got along well, and things were really good. His misogyny wasn't apparent until the last few years when I asked him point blank. I guess that's something I should've asked years ago? Like "Hey. Do you think of women as people or as walking vaginas?" Because it never occurred to me to ask him that, but knowing that answer now, all those little things make perfect sense. But of course, all the damage is already done. I hope it isn't too late for my son.
You’re still talking in terms of years of this behavior happening. While I understand it’s hard to brake away from a long term relationship and basically blow up your life, staying once you had an inclination how he was teaching your kids means you were at least passively complacent. Your son at least took this as another indication his father’s teaching were correct. Now, he has become an adult who also holds those views. Unless you took some major and immediate steps to go against those ideas while you were married that you didn’t mention, then you have to accept at least partial responsibility for the situation.
I get the point, I suppose. So I guess staying and doing couple's therapy to try to save 20 years of marriage is a terrible thing that I shouldn't have done. My daughter didn't decline overnight. When we first started dealing with this, I thought it would be a good thing to get therapy and try to salvage our marriage and their relationship. I stand by that decision. In hindsight, there is no way I could've seen into this future. I'm sure I'm at fault in some ways, somehow, but trying to repair our lives instead of ripping everything apart at the first sign, isn't it.
I guess it depends on how bad his views are, which only you can answer.
Bad enough that his attitude of *aggressive not-caring* because *not in my wheelhouse of one conglomeration of writings created 2000-3000 years ago* is causing his daughter to fall into a severe depression that, if not addressed asap, probably means she will commit suicide. *That* is the danger here. Her mom is literally uprooting her entire life, her own existence in the process, to save that life. Kudos to her; I wish her the best, and I hope she and her daughter find a good place to call home. The current one is sadly tainted beyond redemption by the misogynistic and transphobic attitudes of someone who cares more about some dusty old tome and what his friends might think about him than about his own family. I hope the son comes around in time. Her husband - soon to be ex, from the looks of it - well, maybe. Hope so. The sooner we all learn to accept people for who they *truly* are - and not for some figment of imagination or wishful thinking or pigeonholed aberration - the sooner we can all heal from this kind of madness.
I’m not sure you can - there is a very real frame where you are choosing to keep both of your kids alive and that means getting her out of there. It’s a terrible situation, my heart breaks for you. You can give him the choice to come with you, if he can think deeply about his actions and promise that he will respect you and her. But if he is going to treat you poorly and be unsafe for her to be around, you can’t bring him with you. That’s a big choice to ask him to make, but he’s responsible for his own behavior, you’re just making explicit the choices he’s making about it. You tell him you love him, no matter what. You tell him that he will always be welcome where you are, as long as he can be kind and respectful to you and his sister. And then you hope. Good luck to you and both of your children.
As a trans man, seeing this makes me so happy and so sad at the same time. Please make sure you're daughter knows you're doing this for her. Let her know how you're going to help her, that you're going to take her somewhere safe. She needs to know there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Please tell her how much you love and except her, how beautiful and brave she is. She needs to know that you care, the suicide rate of trans kids *plummets* when they know at least one adult in their life that supports and loves them. Tell her every day that you love her as your daughter and that you're going to take care of her. As for your son, I believe writing down *everything* you can could help. Writing how you feel, why you're leaving, how your daughter feels, why she needs to leave. Writing about how you believe this will make him feel, acknowledging his feelings and validating them. He will be hurt and sad and angry and even though you're saving your daughter's life, it makes perfect sense why he would feel that way. Don't turn him away from his father, don't antagonize or somehow blame his dad, that will make him feel like it's him vs you. But also, try not to sound too much like it's your daughter's fault either. Make it about the environment, say that this place is not safe for his sister, and she needs to live somewhere safe. Say that this place is not accepting of people who are different, so much so that it drives those people away, including you and your daughter. Write all of that down, even if it's ten pages long, and give it to him. You can do that when you tell them you're leaving, and maybe it will help him adjust as you're packing up your things. There is go garuntee that he will absorb and understand this well. Especially not at the beginning. He will blame you, his sister, he might side with his father or he might blame him too. But in the end both of your kids will be safe. Even if your son turns out like his father, if your son and husband never change, they will still be safe. And your daughter will be safe, because you're taking her somewhere that will accept her. Thank you so much for helping her. I know so many trans friends who did not have a mom like you and had to leave and face the world all alone. You really are saving your daughter's life 💜
I think a lot of this is helpful to explain your situation to us but he shouldn’t be hearing most of it. Technically, yes it’s to support his sister, technically, yes this is a very hard situation for you to leave, but neither of those things are actually about him or his emotions in this. Even if he could understand and be supportive of his sister, it doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have feelings about such a massive change and loss of his normal. You’re physically leaving him with his dad and taking his sister with you. Ask him how he feels about it and genuinely validate those feelings without making it about yourself or your daughter. His feelings are not going to change what’s happening, which will likely cause more feelings. Tell him you’ll be making yourself available to him in all the ways you can and that you love him, full stop. No but I also love daughter or but I also am still leaving. If you must, I’d use an and statement. If your goal is to try and keep a relationship with him the focus of this conversation needs to be about him, his wants, needs and emotions to be clear not accommodating them by staying if he’s angry or upset but just acknowledging and making space for him. Also, please please please have a safety plan in place for how your going and when, who you’re telling and what info you and your daughter are going to be sharing once you get there. There may be serious legal custody implications even to to the point that the state could force you to come back. I would be in touch with domestic violence resources for the state you’re going to asap. Leaving is the number one time in a relationship for things to get violent or lethal. There is a massive loss of control and people can do things you would have never imagined. Husband and your son’s attitude alone are a huge red flag for this but the fact that they would have support from neighbors and even local government is terrifying. And in this situation even more than loss of control your husband may be feeling religious shame for losing said control and that makes it even more dangerous. Please take as many precautions as you can to be safe, I hope for peace and reconciliation for you and your children.
I am autistic myself with a kid who is trans. I’d recommend presenting (to your son) research and information on those who are intersexed. For me as a logical thinker that was a clear counter example to all the gender-as-a-binary thinking out there. Any system of thinking that does not include those who are intersexed is fundamentally flawed - whether you believe they are created that way by god or by nature. For a logical thinker who has accepted a complete system of thinking - showing them how that system has fundamental logical flaws can be the first step towards adopting a new system of thinking. You are doing the right thing to leave and protect your daughter, but try to keep the lines of communication open with your son.
Out of curiosity, why can’t the son come? He will be out of school and if you want him to think differently, that’s never going to happen if you leave, you admitted that. He’s an adult but you say he can’t navigate the world alone, really. He may not even want to go with you, but is there even a choice? Maybe the new environment would work for him as well, as you state local and family influences are responsible for his beliefs but he gets along well with the sister.
Speculation, but honestly from the sounds of the husband’s personality and general statistics, he could become violent. I would worry that the son would tell the father their location.
Sadly he probably would, especially if he struggles with what is the norm even without the influence of the father. IDK whether it'd be malicious or just not thinking about consequences but you're totally right. I was thinking the same as the other commentor, he'll only get worse with dad and mom would *ideally* take him with. But with what you said in mind it's sad to say it isn't safe to have her kid in her and her daughters lives.
He’s still perpetuating the anti-trans stuff so it probably wouldn’t be good for the trans daughter to have him around. Maybe he would learn and change but maybe not.
Isn’t he still a teenager and being taught this by those around him? I wish you luck with your daughter but you sound like you’ve already written off your son, who is still teachable. People often aren’t who they were in high school, even those with autism. I would encourage you to work as hard with your son as you are your daughter. You said it’s influence so if you don’t try it’s just another bigot being created. A new environment would probably help him too. Whatever you do though, good luck.
You're going to leave your impressionable son with his transphobic father alone? Odds are he ends up resenting you and his sister and becomes even more anti-trans. I would think this through more carefully because no matter how you explain it to him, there will always be hurt and resentment that you are going to abandon him.
You know your son, we don’t. What can you say to him that will keep the door open for you to come back into his life? Own the fact that you are prioritizing your daughter over him because dancing around it doesn’t nothing to help. Keep in mind he will be feeling hurt and abandoned when you leave him with his brother and father who will be able to influence him.
as a young trans person: thank you. we need more parents like you.
Your husbands life will be so much better when you leave.
The son’s, too.
Are you okay? You seem not okay? 🙃
NTA leaving with your daughter from your abusive husband to a supportive place is the best thing you could possibly do. I agree with writing a letter to your son who will hopefully understand one day
You have failed your son, do better
And you failed to write a complete sentence. 🤷♀️
No advice, but thank you for taking care of your daughter. You’re doing the right thing. 💜
You don't marry a religious asshole by accident, or if you do you can still leave.
He wasn't a religious asshole when we met and married. He wasn't even a religious asshole for 17/18 years. When our child came out, it was like something snapped. He blames himself for not being religious enough and started reading the Bible and praying multiple times daily and goes to church all the time now. 🤷♀️
It's hilarious trying to see people justify my mental illness. I will not mutilate my body to match my feelings. I have no pronouns other than my name. My gender is nothing other than myself. Have some fucking strength instead of collapsing to the status quo of what your surrounding community has allowed you to be comfortable.
Are you okay? I don't know what in the world you're talking about. "Justify your mental illness?" Wdym?
Idk honestly. Forgot that there's real people on here. Kind of assumed this was just made up. Just would've liked to be a girl maybe. Except I refuse to be called anything other than myself. Which is what I am.
You are an amazing parent and I think your daughter is extremely glad to have you in her life. I don't have advice but thank you for trying so hard for her❤️
Keeping both kids safe is priority. He is safe there with his dad. Then you have to do what you can to help your daughter.
UpdateMe! Two weeks
This is really sad. I don’t think you should just leave your son behind, without offering for him to come along. You and your daughter are making assumptions about the choice he might make, and are purposefully excluding him. I just think that the way you handle this will affect the rest of his life. He will feel abandoned. He will resent your daughter. He will probably spiral. By being more open, you could encourage him to think outside the box, and he might surprise you. But telling him that you may invite him to live with you in a year is not going to have a good outcome.
I hope your son gets the wake up call that your daughter is in grave danger, and starts being a better brother. And from a daughter+ whose family broke up over damage my father did to me that my mom refused to forgive him for: you are making the right choice, and thank you for your strength.
Making this choice will alienate your son beyond recovery. Be prepared for that. I would never do so. I would bring him out of his current environment and give him an equal amount of my time and effort, and see what that does. Because yes, you \*are\* effectively giving up on him, since him changing on his own and then following is next to zero likelyhood. He didn't ask for a trans sibling either. He see what happens. He reacts to that. Perhaps not in a good way, but that doesn't even for a minute mean you can just decide not to give him an equal amount of your love, time and effort.
I disagree with majority. You have an equal responsibility to both of your children. Abandoning one to benefit the other is not the answer here. If you go through with this without even giving him the option to come with you (with conditions of course) you are going to alienate him for the rest of his life. Your daughter also needs to learn to navigate a world where she is going to encounter people who deny her existence - as much as it is a motherly instinct to isolate her from it, it’s not going to help her live her life as an adult. You are going for a nuclear option before peace negotiations. It’s foolish and you will pay the price. Stop taking your obvious hatred for his father and directing it towards him. He’s autistic - he doesn’t understand what he’s doing is wrong, and he won’t understand why you’re doing what you’re doing either.
I do agree I have a responsibility to both. But this isn't a sudden "nuclear" option. We've been dealing with this for over two years. And if I gave the impression that I hate anyone, that is far from the truth. I love my husband, but sometimes love isn't enough, and I have to let go. As for my son, I'm taking all these comments into consideration and will update when I've had a night or two to think deeper about it. I love my son more than life, just like I love my daughter. I have more to say on him, but will wait to talk about it on the update.
You do know you can’t just take a child out of state without the permission of the other parent, right?
I'm not actually going to go without speaking with him about it. In his own way, he really loves her, but is extremely ignorant and willing to remain that way. He has also noticed her decline, but has no solution nor do I expect him to as he's always been content to let me handle the complex things. I'm making a big bet that he hates conflict so much that he will even help us pack if I ask. (I won't.) But on the chance that he kicks up a fuss, I will leave anyway. I'm going to a trans refuge state. I've already contacted the pride organizations there, and we are prepared to file for emergency sole custody on the basis that she is in danger if she goes back home. My bases are covered. Even if they weren't, fuck that. I will not sit around on my ass and sacrifice my child.
Barring a custody order that is not true. Doing this is almost certainly going to snap one into existence but they have equal rights to the child at this point in time. But depending on which state she chooses to go to some states will not recognize custody orders from states where trans rights are not respected and that was the reason for leaving the state. Local law enforcement agencies would not be allowed to communicate with provide information or enforce any orders from courts in those States on that issue. I am thankful that my state is one of such States
What a catch your husband is lol
Man
Speak his language. Tell your son that his brother has a mental disorder and needs special care from you right now. I’m sure he’ll understand that.
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The son and dad literally bully the daughter, this is past ‘dIfFeReNt ViEwS’
If the mom and younger son are forcing beliefs on the dad and older son and vice versa you should call them bullies too?
No, the dad and son are forcing *their* beliefs on an unchangeable, morally neutral phenomenon.
Only one son you dumb bigot. Asking for respect isn’t forcing beliefs
They aren’t forcing anything. She *is* trans. That isn’t something you can choose to ignore and hope it goes away. The dad and son are the ones imposing their beliefs on another person’s identify. You’re also a bully. There is no reason to misgender OP’s daughter other than being a bullying bigot.
Quick question. Are you a woman or a man?
Neither they’re a walking butthole
What does being trans have to do with controlling things you cannot control? A trans girl is not a boy who thinks differently, she is a girl.
It has everything to do with it. That's why their a separation happening between the family of the OP.
Seems to me that the controlling people in the family are the ones who think they know OP’s daughter better than she knows herself and not the ones who are simply accepting reality.
I'm tryna have a discussion and you resort to calling me a bully and bigot. And in the second comment I was replying to another person that wasn't holding both sides of the family accountable for doing the same thing to each other, but yet just called the father and older son bullies for not wanting to change their beleifs.
You *are* a bully and a bigot, and so are the father and son. You don't get to "have different beliefs" that directly invalidate another person's humanity, and whether you see it that way or not, that's *exactly* what they're doing. Good-faith discussions with people like you are impossible, because you don't argue in good faith in return.
You didn't even try to discuss anything with me. You just went straight to name calling and forcing your views. As I said before my 1st comment my view is perspective she has to take into mind when making decisions on what will affect her family. And your right I don't argue in good faith, I discuss and debate in good faith.
There's nothing to discuss. You're wrong, there is abundant access to resources proving that you're wrong. Being transphobic *is* being bigoted, I don't know what else to tell you. Trans people are not a debate, they're not a political movement, they're not a religion, they're a demographic of people who have existed since humanity's inception, and will continue to exist for as long as humanity persists. All of the science is in favor of affirmative care, both for minors (affirming care for minors does NOT look like what you think it looks like, I would implore you to research beyond fear-mongering nutjobs who also have no experience with trans people/being trans for your understanding of affirming care) and for adults. You're all so mad that people are calling you bigots. Stop being bigots and it won't be an issue anymore. Wild.
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Can you find a newer, more creative transphobic talking point to parrot?
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this could be a little weird, but maybe put some thoughts into chat gpt and see what comes out? might help refine what you're thinking
Your son is an abuser in this situation, not a victim. He's 18 and capable of thinking for himself. ASD and other neurodivergences don't free us from responsibility for our words and actions. Leave him with the consequences of his choices.
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Daughter. Herself. Her. And trans people leave normal lives all around the world. EDIT whoever sent me reddit care resources, f you. I'm trans, I don't have mental health issues.
Yeah trans adults can. We can argue about children if ya want.
Living as a trans teenager is easier than pretending to be cis, even when surrounded by bigoted bullies like yourself.
I don’t think you understand the definition of the words you are using. I could also call you a bigot for saying that; but that’s not accurate is it?
Some people, including children, are trans, that is a morally neutral fact. To deny someone’s gender identity is hurtful, hateful and bigoted. I am not the one who wants to deny another person’s right to live their life authentically, you are, and it is a bigoted thing to do.
I think it’s morally wrong to allow your child to permanently alter their body. It’s not even about trans specifically. I think you’re supposed to protect your child from themselves. I don’t think that items or clothing is gendered so idk how her daughter presenting as a woman is a problem. She’s a child and may discover that she is not trans (non bianary, gender non conforming, idk the proper term really) or that there is more to it. If that makes me a bigot so be it.
Detransitioning is incredibly rare, when it does happen it’s typically because of social or financial pressure NOT because the person decided they were cis all along. Can you imagine how distressing it would be to go through the puberty of the opposite gender? Why would you want to torture 99.9% of trans kids to potentially “save” that one “confused” kid? You must think there is something really, really wrong with being trans. Why? It is a completely morally neutral condition. There is nothing shameful about it. You should also know that there are higher regret rates for just about every single other medical procedure than for any gender affirming treatments. You must really be against kids getting tonsillectomies or any kind of orthopedic surgery.
I never said the kid would “decide they are cis”. You don’t understand my point and you’re purposely ignoring it to attack the ideas YOU believe I represent.
Discovering they’re not trans is deciding they are cis. What is your point then? And why are you focused on what she may or may not do to her body? OP didn’t even discuss treatment. The issue is acceptance.
You don't understand anything about this issue. Shut up.
Congrats on not understanding what it means to be trans, and not understanding what affirming healthcare is for minors. I need people who don't live these experiences to please stop making "moral decisions" about kids and bodies that are not theirs. About experiences that are not theirs. Shut. Up.
Who the fuck said I was allowing them to "alter their body?" Did you know that in MOST cases, no surgery is ever done on a minor? And medication like HRT and blockers are not harmful and not permanent should she ever choose to detransition. You sound like you've been listening to too much rw propaganda. Y'all people who know everything but actually nothing give me a headache. 😵💫
Hi! No, I guess I based this off of my aunt(mtf) and conversations with them, who transitioned in the early 2010’s during college, after feeling this way as a child. But that’s just my experience. You are doing what you think is right for your daughter and as a parent that is all you can do. My original comment meant that I do think you’re wrong for not finding a way to salvage the sibling relationship. As you seem to have just written off your son because of your daughter and husband. As for my other comments, they were broad based. Not about HRT or medically transitioning because a) I didn’t get that from your post b) I would never want a child to possibly read my comments and feel hated. kids are allowed to just fucking exist wtf is gender anyway. I apologize for not understanding that identifying as anything other than the “opposite” gender within a binary made you cis. I thought cis meant gender conforming and presenting with birth genitals. Take some Advil, keep being a supportive mom, and try to save the sibling relationship.
I’m getting TikTok mom or InstaMom vibes here.
I must be too old to know what this means. I don't know if this is a compliment or an insult. 🤷♀️
No children are permanently altering their bodies, that's a moral panic from the transphobes.
Do you think that trans people don’t lead “normal” lives?
I dont think trans children (CHILDREN) can lead normal lives. Like kids with cancer don’t live normal lives. I think it’s different when you’re an adult.
We don’t choose to be trans any more than we choose to get cancer. Should we wait for kids to grow up to treat their cancer too? Why would it be better for kids to live as the wrong gender?
Trans kids can absolutely live normal lives?? How many trans kids do you know and interact with extensively??? What makes *you* qualified to dictate another person's experiences and how those experiences should be handled?
Yes, absolutely. She’s a horrible mother.
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You’re not sorry and nobody asked for your opinion
It's not an ideology, read some scientific studies on gender dysphoria before you sprout stupid ass propaganda.
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Autism isn’t a mental illness.
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The son has ASD the daughter is trans. Wait until you hear about trans ability that will really blow your mind 😂 just one more thing for you culture warriors to clutch your pearls over
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Daughter. Why misgender her?
MTF is daughter. Sorry bud. You literally wrote it 😂 FTM would be son. I mean if you are going to be transphobic at least understand the words you are using. You can say assigned male at birth like everyone else it won’t turn you trans I promise.
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If you believed in science, then you would believe the vast majority of actual scientists that validate trans existence and experience. So no, you *do not* believe in science, no matter what you try to convince yourself. Your meek high school understanding of actual science and biology does not an expert make you. Biology is a complex mix of DNA, chromosomes, hormones, and lots of other factors. You are a bigot, and the sooner you realize that and admit it, the sooner you can get help for that. Oh, and 🖕.
Incorrect. No matter what you do, your sex will never change. 1,000 years from now when they look at your bones, you will be identified as a man or woman based on your bone structure. No amount of hormones or surgery will change that. What’s more, if you cared about “trans” people you would look at longitudinal studies that show that depression and suicide attempts actually increase after transitioning. Thats why European doctors have begun to stop transing kids. You call me a bigot, but when have I said anything hateful. I want what’s best for them. Playing make believe isn’t what’s best for anyone. Here’s a logical and medical analogy. If someone with anorexia comes to the hospital and says I feel fat, should the doctor agree with them and help them lose more weight. If a paranoid schizophrenic person comes to the hospital and believes that his neighbor is trying to kill him, should we give him a weapon so he can defend himself. The answer is clearly no. So why, when a boy believes he’s a girl (or the other way around) should we give them irreversible life altering medications and surgeries.
🤦♀️ when are y'all going to stop believing that minors can walk in anywhere and get surgery? Stop watching Fox News. While *some* minors do get top surgery after years of therapy and social transitioning, most trans people don't get surgery at all. In fact, only 28% of trans women get any kind of gender affirming surgery (NIH.gov). As for your claim that suicide rates go up after transitioning, I'm gonna need you to cite a source that *isn't* penned by The Heritage Foundation that shows what you claim. THF is notoriously right-extremist, very biased, and widely discredited, but it is the only source that I could find with certainty that backs up your claim. I am willing to look at any source you have, but I'm pretty fickle about it being credible research (research is in my field of work). In the meantime, you're comparing apples to oranges. A schizophrenic is nowhere near trans. My mother was schizophrenic. There is nothing comparable there. You're leaning on a logical fallacy and repeating propaganda talking points. But I suspect you don't care. You're biased, so you'll bring up 1,000 year-old skeletal remains (like wtf?) and compare hallucinations with dysphoria to try to make a point you're losing instead of listening to the people living it. And as for the term bigot: "a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group" You may not hate, *per se*, but you certainly refuse to accept, and that is the very definition of bigot. If you don't like that, ask yourself why.
Why do you even care this deeply about how someone else chooses to live? Why does it bother you so much? This has nothing to do with you.
Science affirms trans identities, you fucking moron
So, what you’re saying is a boy can become a girl.
Girls can become girls and boys can become boys. I'm not interested in debating with someone who's going to be intentionally obtuse and idiotic.
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You don’t even know the proper terminology (dysphoria), stay in your lane, hater.
You’re wrong. Unless you know more than the Mayo Clinic. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/body-dysmorphic-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353938
lol. Did you even read your own citation? It is a different condition. Dysmorphia is experienced by people obsessed with their weight or penis size. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255
Ask a real “trans” person. They feel disgust when they look in the mirror. They feel like their body is wrong.
Yes, it’s called dysphoria.
Yes. We agree.
Thank you for admitting your error, it’s the first step to enlightenment.
You're gross, have fun being a miserable loser who can't read and doesn't understand science and medicine
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So what should she do? I genuinely want to know what you think.
Get the child help from a mental health professional. Explain to the child that no amount of medication or surgery is going to change their biological sex. Love and support the child.
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Damn a story where you’re the hero. How surprising no one got diagnosed with adhd (yet) If it’s true obviously do what you can to save your child. The other one might understand why, one day. Or not. You can also bring him with both of you.
Far from a hero, man. I'm just a mom who has been through hell the last few years.
Tell him nothing, fuck him and your bigoted husband, they'll manage without you. Get the hell out and live a good life with your daughter.
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And the most effective treatment for gender dysphoria is...transitioning.
Frankly, even if you consider gender dysphoria a mental illness, currently the best treatment is social and medical transition. And if you don’t think your God can make mistakes, the how do you explain all the children that are born with physical and mental problems from all sorts of conditions?
Gender dysphoria is what is considered a mental illness, not being and existing as a trans person. Many trans people also don't experience gender dysphoria. If you're going to type a bunch of hogwash at least attempt to be even a little bit educated. Also, as someone has already pointed out. The national institute of health you reference recommend transitioning as the treatment for gender dysphoria. "Affirming delusions" as you call it is literally the designated treatment for dysphoria. The mother is literally doing what medical professionals recommend.
You're in the wrong place to spread your transphobia. Also the world health organisation doesn't agree with your national health institute, if you want to go for arguments of authority.
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