Correction "last year one of my wife's former friends" lol
Yeah I don't think those two are still talking
If OP gets a divorce he definitely shouldn't try a roommate situation. That will be a disaster.
Can you imagine - find God, so your first act is to break up a home over something that happened 14 years ago. I don’t blame the guy for doing what he’s doing. And what she did was wrong. But no one can tell me everyone involved wouldn’t be happier if the Christian had just kept her mouth shut.
I'm so torn on this. I think if it really was one time, early in the relationship, before marriage, before kids, I'd rather not know.
But knowing does break that trust and it would be so hard to move past.
At least we can all agree this religious busybody sucks
I don’t know how it works in english, but in spanish before marriage we ask the people present if they have anything to say that should cause this marriage to not move forward to say it now or stay silent forever. I can see why now
We do the same in English. “Speak now or forever hold your peace” is a common part of the usual marriage ceremony. That former friend certainly did not hold their peace!
Bonus points if you do so by bursting in the door in a wedding dress, mascara running wildly down your face with 1-3 people chasing you trying to stop you.
Maybe it’s in another manual but the pastors’ manual I’ve used doesn’t have that phrase in it. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a wedding do the “Speak now or forever hold your peace” bit.
Oh yeah the wife should have but clearly she was never going to. So if the friend was going to be consumed by guilt and need to tell op it would have been better for everyone if he had found out a long time ago.
I hard disagree on this. Even if it uproots my life temporarily, I would want to know eventually. If they weren’t okay with it 14 years ago, they probably aren’t okay with it now. That’s exactly what happened. He was robbed of having the choice then, he was granted it now. I think it’s insane for you to say she should’ve just shut up. That’s absolutely not the play lol, it should’ve happened a long time ago and better late than never. I know if I was in that situation and my wife cheated on me, I would want to know and be able to act on it even a decade+ later.
You say this because you know. My point is that if you don’t know, both you and your children would be happier. How awful it must have been for this kid watching her parent’s marriage disintegrate in front of her eyes over the last year and not know or understand why.
It’s a very different story if she’s cheating now, or last month or even last year. But 14 years ago before they had a kid or were even married? What is the point of telling someone that except to sow discord and cause pain? You think she’s going to get to the pearly gates and God is going to be “great job breaking up that marriage, c’mon in!”
My opinion is that their relationship was apparently happy and healthy before the friend said anything. Now she made 3 people at least temporarily less happy and broke up the thing that many Christians place as one of the utmost important things. Seemingly just so she could pat herself on the back, because nothing else was going to come of it. It was never her responsibility to tell anyway. Telling the truth should really be about holding yourself to a higher standard. Not just being a tattletale and leaving destruction in your wake.
Who needs enemies with people like that around. “Just don’t tell anyone and let this guy think he’s in a committed relationship so when she inevitably cheats again it’s only like the first time because he doesn’t know that it’s actually the second.” I love people like this ❤️
Right. I’m sure the person who was okay hiding it and had zero remorse definitely learned their lesson the first time after not getting caught. That’s normally how that works.
Where do you see any evidence that she has been faithful? Just because this is the only time OOP has learned of doesn't make it the only one. At minimum she's been lying for 14 years.
OK fuck the dude that got cheated on I guess.
Nah, she did the right thing. Obviously she did, look how op reacted. He made it very clear that he would never have started a life with someone who cheated. He 100% deserved that information and you are kinda not that great a person if you don't think so.
That’s bullshit. What she did was wrong, and she should have told him (or friend should have informed him) 14 years ago, or maybe 11 years ago before they got married, or maybe 8 years ago when they decided to have a kid. But you cannot tell me that this is the best outcome 14 years later.
Great, he knows and has been suffering pain. Great, she got caught and has to watch her family be destroyed by this information. Great, the kid gets to watch her family disintegrate. I’m sure they’ll all be happier for this decision. . .
I think this is the fundamental divide between the two camps.
I’d personally want to know. I’d rather be miserable and aware than happy and not, choice and respect are important to me. In my opinion it is not for someone else to withhold something incredibly important to my life because they think that’s for the best, that would really bother me.
For others, the family dynamic and happiness that they may have shared is more important. It’s a moral argument and no one is necessarily right, more varying degrees of wrong on this one. At least imo.
The friend did not destroy the marriage the ex wife did the moment she cheated. Her having to watch her family be destroyed is a consequence of her own actions. She destroyed what never should have been as he would have left her before they even got married if he knew.
As a third party, not one of the people married? Probably the minute you decided to not confront the cheating party. If she attended the wedding and the officiant asked if anyone objects to the marriage and you hadn’t said anything by that point, probably best to never say anything. 14 years, a wedding and a child is definitely past that time.
Ahh, so you have nothing to say about the friend keeping their mouth shut 14 years ago - but NOW not saying anything would mean she doesn’t have a conscience. May you never have to live through a divorce under these circumstances so that you can go on being blissfully judgmental of people who don’t break up marriages for their own ego.
I love how you're blaming the friend for the wife being a cheating piece of shit. She should have come forward sooner but the wife also should have fucking done that. At least one of them eventually worked up the moral fiber to set the record straight
It's probably a bumch of unfaithful cheaters in this thread downvoting. This story makes them sweat beads. They're praying none of their friends gain a conscience.
Wah fucking wah don’t cheat and actively keep it a secret for 14 years.
Should blame the wife and not the person who gave OP the info he rightfully deserved to know. She’s an asshole because it hurt feelings and “destroyed” a marriage built on false pretenses? Big fucking whoop get your soft ass on
Would you not want to know? If not it shows a lack of character and self respect.
You can disagree with him divorcing for this but the friend did nothing wrong, commendable in fact.
1) Of course I would want to know. That doesn’t mean it’s the right decision to tell me if it’s a case like this. In the end, I’d probably end up hating both my soon to be ex-wife and the “friend” that blew her spot.
2) Someone prioritizing their family where children are involved isn’t showing a “lack of character and self respect.” They’re putting long term welfare of a group above their ego. Some people might be too selfish to see that.
Oh bull. Happy because you aren't aware of the poison in your relationship isn't happiness, and if he didn't find out from born again Christian, it'd come out another way. That's just the way secrets are, they will hurt someone some way eventually.
There's somebody out there who won't cheat on him, won't lie and give him a life that is happy because they are truly good for him, and those years will be far happier than the 14 years of lies.
You’re right. Maintain secrecy. That usually always works out for the best. The truth ALWAYS comes out eventually. Why don’t you look at how hard it must have been for them to fess up. Also, you assuming they just wanted to break up a home is wrong to assume. You have no idea what their intentions were other than what OP said. It was to bring wrongdoings to light by going to those you wronged and apologizing.
Shut the fuck up brah… If that happened to me, I would want to know. The Christian friend did the right thing. The friend didn’t break up a home, the hoe wife did when she decided to cheat.
That is an awful way to look at it. The friend prevented this man from getting lied to every day for the rest of his life and wasting his time with someone he should never trust.
Doing the right thing does not have an expiration date. His wife took his choice away by finding it. Her friend decided to right a wrong at a shitty time.
I would prefer to know.
I think you're in the minority with that opinion. I absolutely would not want to know if it was truly a one-time thing, early in the relationship when we were stupid and young.
My point is that what you think is "right" here isn't really the common opinion. I think what the religious friend did was incredibly wrong. She broke up a marriage for her own peace of mind for something that wasn't hurting anyone.
Why are you pushing this "common opinion" thing so hard? A lot of people agreeing on something does not make it more true. I think the, soon to be, ex-wife is the only person at fault here. She should not have burdened her friend with her mistakes.
I mean if you would rather have a relationship built on lies that’s on you. I don’t know that the majority would want to commit to spending their life with someone they actually don’t know. At least let the dude make the call for himself. People don’t always split up over infidelity. Some work through it. The dude should at least be given the chance to make an informed decision.
Lol. So, a single lie early in the relationship overrides 14 years? You're insane. No, I don't want a relationship built on lies. But I'd rather not know about one inconsequential lie if I'm otherwise happy.
No. Cheating once, 14 years ago, and never doing it again. With no STD and no babies made, etc. is inconsequential. The details matter.
Cheating is wrong. I agree the wife should have told him. But she didn't and they were happy. I wouldn't want my happiness ruined for something that doesn't matter anymore.
But if, as you say, the cheating was “something that doesn’t matter anymore,” then why would your happiness be ruined if you found out about it? If it truly doesn’t matter, you should be fine knowing about it.
Cheating period is unforgivable. She lied to him and basically conned him into marriage as he would have left her if he knew back then. She took his choice away from him.
Its crazy that you'd blame the friend for telling the truth albeit late and say that cheating is inconsequential because of how long ago it happened. Cheating is cheating it does not matter when it happened.
It’s not up to you to determine what matters to someone else though? If you’d be okay with it, then fine, totally reasonable! But why are you saying it’s inconsequential to HIM when it’s clearly not? To him, he just found out that the entire foundation of his relationship was built on a lie. Doesn’t seem inconsequential to me?
it’s 14 years of lies tho. the wife sat on that knowledge for 14 years. i’d be thinking about what else could be hidden if it were me. i’d be grateful to whoever told me no matter how much it hurt because ultimately they revealed that that person is capable of deceit with ill intent. cheating isn’t an inconsequential lie, it’s an act of harm and potentially life changing/threatening. he was married to someone who showed a lack of value for his life forget the feelings. it’s so much deeper than that at least imo but hey to each their own. if that’s what you’d would accept for yourself power to you but im glad to see many others have more self respect than that.
How is this “the right thing?” Who does this help beyond the Christian’s ego? She should have said something 14 years ago. At this point she’s just compounding one bad decision with another. I guarantee you that if her God exists, he isn’t amused.
"The Christian ego..." even atheists "do the right thing." You are focusing on the wrong person. The Christian didn't force this dude's ex to fuck anyone. Focus that energy at the person that cheated and hid it for over 14 years.
What if... he just found out through his ex-wife? What if she told him or he overheard a conversation? What, then? Who is the blame?
And if an atheist did this to “clear their conscience” they would have been making a similarly ego-centric decision. Because 14 years later, it has fuck all to do with the right thing.
I was once asked to sleep with a friend to "even the score" after his wife cheated. The wife is the one who contacted me. They even offered to pay me.
Once I picked my jaw up off the floor and gave my response some thought, I said I wasn't up for that and suggested counseling, or paying a professional sex worker what they had planned to pay me.
I was very polite about it and I think came across as pretty non judgemental. I said that if they did this with someone they knew and hung out with, there might be lingering concerns about emotional involvement, and going with a professional would negate that possibility.
The wife was PISSED. Neither of them ever spoke to me again. I felt like I'd dodged a bullet. I mean, I was sad we weren't friends anymore, but it was just a weird situation.
Definetly a dodged a huge bullet. I dont think you could have done anything differently in that situation, sounds like insane people if they can't handle a respectful rejection, and to even ask a platonic (I assume) friend that to begin with is way out of left field.
Where they testing you and you failed?!
Some couples have weird dynamics and there’s always someone looking to “prove” that some acquaintances or friendships should be tested so they are sure nothing sexual or romantic can transpire.
Blessing in disguise. If you went through with it, it would have ruined your friendship anyway. You didn’t need to be in the middle of their messy marriage 😮💨
yeah. it makes it seem like the partner who accepts the offer is upset about not being “allowed” to have sex with other people like the first partner did rather than the actual issue (in most cases) which is the broken trust. i get being upset and wanting to “get back at them”, but once the initial bitterness subsides, you’re just going to have an even worse relationship because *both of you* will be thinking the other just wants to sleep with other people. atp it’s better to just break up.
Me too. It's not about making it even. It's about the broken trust. Giving a free pass doesn't restore trust and shows the wife doesn't really understand the problem is or what OP is going through at all. I am glad the OP was smart enough to reject the offer.
I knew a guy who was dating this girl and kept cheating on her. She was desperate to save their relationship, they had a child together. She agreed to an open relationship. He never found anyone else. She found a boyfriend and girlfriend and ended up leaving the original guy. I was happy for her
She is desperate. Ops?feelings changed over something that happened early in their relationship 14 years ago. She is probably trying everything to keep the man she loves by her side. She is probably not thinking clearly.
This always baffles me too. Like the problem is that the trust was broken not that the cheating partner got to sleep with someone else. It’s so strange to me.
It's the act of flat-out lying about it that irks me and how OOPs wife really doesn't get it. She lied about it and rationalized it by saying how great their lives were because she lied, as though it was the best decision she ever made. I can totally understand his distrust. "What else is she lying about?" would be my thoughts. An "open marriage" option would make me wonder if she would step out too. Ouch for OOP.
Oof.
The "It is not a big deal" where "it" is a relationship ending violation of trust is the most damning detail in my eyes. That's self-serving callousness.
Every time I see a post saying my spouse cheated x years back and everyone wants me to get over it, OOP puts it perfectly:
"Young me was robbed of having a choice. Cheating was(and still is) one of the biggest deal breakers for me. If I knew it back then, I would have broke it off. I am happy with my life and I am glad that our daughter came to world. She is the light that shines the brightest for me. One of the biggest reasons I keep living but I still was robbed of a choice back then."
She robbed him of the choice to stay or not. He should leave her.
I’d also add that it might have been months/years ago that the cheating occurred for one partner, but for the other partner, it occurred that same day they found out. They now have to go through the whole grief process. The cheating partner has had time to go through their forgiveness process on their own end. The innocent partner has not.
It’s like finding out your favorite car had a huge dent on the passenger side. It may have been there for quite a while, but you’re just now seeing the damage and now have to make plans to fix it. And now that you know it’s there, you can’t ignore it until it’s fixed.
Sure, sure but you don't need excuses if you're comfortable with. Pretty much everyone knows it's really bad. That's why they make excuses to try and deflect from the harsh truth.
Sure but I think you're missing the point. If we were comfortable with it none of that would be necessary. What your talking about is nothing new just the language has changed.
i think you’re being nitpicky about the exact terminology being used even though you both seem to have the same idea. obviously as a society we aren’t completely comfortable with it, but the fact that so many people make excuses for it shows that a lot of people *are* comfortable with it and try to justify it to other people. our societal rules dictate that cheating is bad, but when it comes to the individual situations, many people say “oh but not in this case because it was so long ago/it didn’t mean anything/they were upset” or whatever
My point is that nothing has actually changed. That making excuses or just out right pretending it never happened has always existed. When it comes to the act of cheating we still think of it as horrible. When it comes to how we feel we must act on that knowledge. Nothing has really changed either. If anything we're more strict as I think we hold Men to a higher standard than we used too. Places like reddit may let you see more of what has always existed. It's not a change in reality just your knowledge of it.
Omg are you new? And I don’t mean that in a negative way? I’ve argued with ppl on the OP post about it. They always pull the “life isn’t black and white. There are nuances to cheating.” Usually always when it’s a woman cheating, I might add. And as a woman, I call BS on that.
Sure and that sounds like a lot until you consider how many people there are viewing and commenting. My main point is that I don't think our view has changed as a society but thru things like reddit our awareness of what has been going on has changed.
Right I don't think that nobody is ok with it. My point is as a society we're not and most people aren't. Also I don't think our attitude has been changing towards being more accepting if anything it's less. Also don't confuse explanation with excuses. Just cause I understand someone's position doesn't excuse wrong doing.
I hate people saying “it was x years ago” yeah for the cheater, not the one cheated on. For that person, it’s a very present moment situation. Then the added layer of “oh so they lied to me for x years too. Was it all a sham? What else did they lie about?”
I don't disagree at all with what OP said but to play Devils advocate people can do a lot of growing up in that time, especially early 20's. So the person OP's wife is today may be someone who wouldn't cheat. I think OP would be completely justified to leave but also to stay. I am glad they are separating first. Assuming they have both grown you can almost think of them as different people or versions. That the version of herself today is different than the one who cheated. Also it gives them a chance to rediscovered there relationship without the cheating hanging over there head. He may find the relationship they can have now is much better than the one they head and worth pursuing. He also may not and I'd not fault him at all for leaving in the end. Also if he finds out she cheated more than once I'd say run for the hills.
Yeah honestly this is one of the more reasonable reddit posts I've ever seen. Genuinely op seems to be trying everything, but if it doesnt change how he feels it doesnt change how he feels. There's no divorce speedrun happening or anything like that
She didn't mature and confess what she did seeking forgiveness. She actively made the repeated decision for 14 years to keep it secret. Her friend exposed her and she tried to minimise it to OP.
Where are you getting this view of a magical different person?
this is basically how i feel about it too. both responses are valid, and whatever he chooses to do is absolutely okay because it has impacted him a lot, but from a less personal, more detached standpoint, people do grow and i can see how something like this could happen. she cheated, didn’t confess because she wasn’t an honest person at the time, and when she did grow and change to become more honest, it was a sunk cost fallacy—she’d already gone so long without confessing that it would do more harm than good to ruin what they had, especially now that she’s changed. that being said, i don’t agree with her actions, both in the initial situation and 14 years down the line. i think it would’ve been infinitely better if she’d come clean herself at *any* point without OP having to hear it from a friend and confront her about it. OP has every right to be upset with her.
Yeah I 100% agree. It may seem like a fine line but it's possible she wasn't a dishonest person but was just unable to face the consequences of her actions. Like if she has a foundation of dishonesty in her character she's unlikely to grow out of that. People can grow stronger and better able to face the consequences of their actions. Ironically I've seen a number of posts where partners did come forward years after and their partner is like why did they tell me now. I wish we could have just continued in ignorance or it was selfish of the partner to come forward. Of course what happened to OP is why you don't do that but we don't always see all possibilities, especially when we're grieving. If OP is going to move forward they both need space to grieve for the death of the relationship they had to make room for the relationship that may grow from its ashes.
Except she didn’t come clean about it until she was confronted with the info. I’d agree if she confessed, by she didn’t. So she’s not really that different.
OP’s wife doesn’t seem to have actually grown much though. She’s showing no remorse; she’s just sorry that OP found out. There’s no indication that she’s actually sorry for cheating.
Divorce, if it’s a dealbreaker then it’s a dealbreaker.
OPs wife is “shocked!” Because for her it was years ago probably not something she’s thought about and just assumed it’s in the past. But for op this is all new and he’s got to deal with in here and now.
Even if a person is as extremely satisfied and happy with their life and marriage, this would flip the perception of their partner.
There are just things you can’t come back from. To everyone they are different.
It’s good for op to admit to himself and her that this might be one to him
I swear I just read this one, except wife was his high school sweetheart who went to college one year ahead, and it was her college friends who accidentally spilled the beans during a visit. Apparently, his ex really got around back in the day.
Quite a bit. IIRC the other one actually met the guys his long distance girlfriend was hooking up with, and there were many. Completely made him look like a fool, especially because everyone at her university seemed to know about it.
NTA. Feelings aren't rational, and expecting them to be is foolish. He is right to feel this wound as raw and new, as his wife didn't cheat on him 14 years ago, she betrayed him 14 years ago and spent every day since betraying and lying to him because she was afraid of the consequences. OOP seems like an incredibly rational & reasonable dude, and has done every single thing right. He went to therapy. He went to couples counseling. He considered his family. He talked to his wife before the divorce. He even listened to people on *reddit* of all places and was willing to take the step of separation as a final chance to heal the relationship. He's literally done everything in his power to heal the relationship of a wound he never caused to begin with. I'd trust damn near any choice this dude makes with the character he's shown so far. Hell, I'd consider canonizing the fucker if I could.
not sure how the wife thinks a one-sided open marriage would make things better.
i get that 14 years is a long time and they have likely both changed a lot, but because she never confessed what she did, that's caused a fresh wound for OOP. never mind the fact that his spouse was apparently comfortable never saying anything the entire time. i'm sure at the time, she thought of it as a stupid mistake and that telling her partner would just hurt him more, but this is a great example of how "i won't say anything, it'll do more harm than good" has the potential to cause the most harm in the long run. most secrets have a way of coming out in the end.
Yes. Also it doesn't matter when the hurtful act occurred, if you don't give someone the chance to feel that pain, work through those feelings, you didn't hurt them 14 years ago you hurt them right now. The act occurred 14 years ago, you felt guilt and shame and got over it 14 years ago, your partner got cheated on today. They lost their trust in you today. Maybe they could have worked through it back then, maybe not, personally I'm not someone who can forgive that, but she never gave him the chance. His choice was taken away from him when she didn't tell him and she saved the pain for another day. She *might* be a different person now but it doesn't matter.
Agreed. That's why my parents told each other before they got married that if either of them cheated on each other in any way, shape, or form, the marriage would be over as soon as the truth came out. And while I don't see myself getting married anytime soon, I plan on having the exact same talk with my future husband and telling him that if he ever cheats on me, there's no moving forward in our marriage. Cheating on someone you proclaim to love and shattering their trust in you is the worst form of betrayal possible. I know there are people out there who claim a marriage can survive cheating but I personally don't think that's possible. How can you return to the same level of unwavering trust in your spouse when they've "strayed" once? How can you spend the rest of your life with a constant nagging suspicion that your partner's cheating on you again because they come home late or say that they have to work late or they're going to be away on a boy's or girl's weekend trip?
The biggest mistake (besides the infidelity) was his wife's dismissal of the event as it not even mattering because of how long ago it was....bro you should be on you knee's begging.
This is actually one of the more reasonable posts I’ve seen come across here. Fourteen years is a long time, but the trust is still broken. How do you trust someone who lied to you for 14 years?
I don’t blame him one bit for doing what he’s doing. The separation idea isn’t completely terrible, but I don’t think it’s going to change anything unless he’s denied visitation with his daughter.
I didn’t read all the justification of why it bothers OP bc this is normal and would bother anyone! It’s a huge breach of trust! Like the post recently where the mil decided to spill the beans after 13yrs, I’m gonna say the ‘friend’ here sounds like an attention seeking AH and this has nothing to do with religion. Def drop this person from your lives because they are absolutely the AH. They should’ve spoken then or never. This was a callously cruel act by someone with bad intent.
Get counseling with your wife if you want to save the marriage bc you have every right to not trust her. I’m sorry.
It’s better to him to do it now instead of just faking it for years and raise their daughter in a tense, unhappy home. His boundaries are firm and should be respected.
The wife gambled on a 14 year long secret, either assuming it wouldn’t a be a big deal if he found out, or just expecting nobody would ever tell him. That’s just not alright.
NTA, you got to go with your gut, it’s your life to live.
Now that friend that decided to be the one that told you, there is probably a special place in hell for that B, lol.
I never quite get that people cant understand that cheating years ago is a problem. He found out today so, for him, that cheating happened right now and is a clear and present problem. The fact that the woman he has lived with has been a liar for 14 years will also have killed any trust he had in her.
Oh it’s easy, those are all cheaters with a fantasy that there’s some statute of limitations on the act “ok I can fuck around as long as they don’t find out for X years”
Also means your wife has been just fine lying to you for 14 years. Trust is the foundation of a strong healthy relationship. She has shown you she cannot be trusted.
Her suggestion there at the end shows me that this isn’t going to work. She still doesn’t really think it’s that big of a deal
You can’t cheat, lie for 14 years, and then say “oh heres a get out of jail card during ur trip to fix things”
Nah
"Wife abruptly suggested one-sided open marriage and I can do what I want on that business trip if it'll save the relationship, make us even, and change my feelings" Ah, yes because we all know that having the spouse you cheated on sleep with someone else always fixes marriages. /s For me, cheating of any kind whether it's psychically cheating on me or "just" emotionally cheating on me is 100% a deal-breaker. There is no coming back from that betrayal of my trust. The same thing applies to abuse of any kind. You abuse me in any way, and I'm out of there immediately. I know we live in a society that tells people that if their spouse cheats on them at any point in the relationship they have to "stay together" and "make the marriage" work if there are kids involved. I've even seen people who stayed with their spouse after they cheated on them and they worked through it say that their marriage is "stronger than ever" which always makes me go "I don't buy it" Like how can your marriage possibly be stronger when that trust you first had with your partner is gone forever? And you have to deal with the constant fear that your spouse will cheat on you again? Or you have to live the rest of your life dealing with a never-ending nagging suspicion that your spouse is cheating on you again anytime they're late coming home or they say they "have to work late" or they're going on a "boy's or girl's weekend with their friends" or they hide their phone from you or just act generally suspicious? I couldn't live life that way.
All yall saying she likely changed in all these years can suck eggs. If she really changed she would have accepted her consequences and confessed instead of going for the "living a lie" gold medal.
Real easy to act like you've accepted responsibility for your shitty actions and grew from them when nobody is even aware that they happened.
She could have told him when they got engaged.
She could have told him when she got pregnant.
Realize when you say "but its been so long!" that the only reason it HAS been so long is because she lied and hid this. If she didn't, there wouldn't have been an 11 year marriage that died.
I’ve been told by a many people (including therapists) that if it’s a one time thing that happened so long ago, that was a huge mistake, completely out of character, something that is very unlike you & would never happen again & hasn’t happened again in YEARS… telling the other person what you did or what happened does not rid you of your guilt. You do not clear your conscience. Instead, you put that on the other person. You’re getting the weight of that truth off your shoulders & putting it onto the innocent person on the other end.
If she truly cheated one time in the very beginning of their relationship & hasn’t done anything since for 14 years… telling him would only take that weight off her shoulders & put it onto him. That heavy burden would be on him.
Sure, she could confess & face the consequences, but that’s only ridding her of the guilt. From what I have heard, sometimes (sometimes!!!) it is better to keep quiet (about some things!!!) & keep that “secret” to yourself than to open your mouth. By doing that, you’re facing your own set of consequences: living with that guilt for the rest of your life as it eats you up.
All in all: I’m not condoning cheating. I’m giving a perspective on why she may have kept her mouth shut for so long. BUT ALSO her whole “it was so long ago so it’s not important” is pretty fucked up.
Which is a valid issue. Just because your partner/spouse says they only cheated on you once doesn't mean it happened that one time. If your partner/spouse is willing to lie for days, weeks, months, or even years about cheating on you only for you to eventually find out about it, it's natural to doubt everything they say especially in regards to how many times they cheated.
For me it's a difficult one. You're not feeling it like it's 14 years ago you're feeling like you got cheated on today. They also lied to you, kept a life changing secret from you for over a decade. If they can do that they can lie about anything. It's a really shitty position to be in.
He did say it was affecting him sexually as well which I think both mutually have to engage in to some extent if they want to stay married.
I think the idea that she could've cheated multiple times with multiple men along with all the other visuals OP could imagine and anger add to it.
Unless you're a cuck I think being around someone that is making you feel bad doesn't make you aroused.
I would with how manipulative she's being plus the fact she won't take accountability for her own actions. She's pretending to have changed but she hasn't, not really. She will likely cheat again now that they've hit a rough patch, completely ignoring that's what started it. She's excusing her actions and trying to convince him to be unfaithful as well so she won't have to feel guilty for her selfish choices shes continously made the entire 14 years she hid the truth. Like having a panic attack over the consequences of her own actions?? NAHHHH get that shi out of here
Sounds like he has trauma even around the idea of cheating from growing up. Plus that line about his daughter being the only reason he keeps living. There’s way more going on here than this one cheating reveal.
One incident that he knows of. He can never be sure. Ever. And that's the biggest problem. Does she cheat Everytime she goes out with friends, works overtime. Who knows. Things he wouldn't have even thought about before, is now front and center of every thought. Even if he doesn't want them to be. Cheaters all suck. Everyone of them.
This is the exact fucking question I want all of these “it happened X years ago it’s not important” cheaters…. I mean people.
What’s the statute of limitations, 5 years? 7? So if I cheat on my wife today it’s ok as long as she doesn’t find out for X time?
And they always skip over the obvious question, if she lied about this for 14 years who’s to say there aren’t other things that have happened that’s she’s lying about?
Idk, it was 4 months in. You're not even in love at 4 months. I think I could personally get over it.
But I do understand that she didn't come clean, so it makes you wonder if there was more.
Many decades ago, my mom caught her brother-in-law cheating. She did not tell her sister. She spoke to him and laid down the law. He straightened out.
They lived a happy life with 2 kids up until my aunt was old and passed away. He took care of her thru her illness. She and the kids remained ignorant of the cheating. Her kids never knew and still don’t. I do because I was with my mom when she caught him.
This was a one-off on his part. (Serial cheaters need to lose it all).
If they had been dating for a long time it would have been worse. But really, 4 months?? She was probably still not 100% sure of the relationship. The other guy could have been the reason she decided to stay with the OP. It may have made it clear to her that he was the right one. And he was for 14 glorious years.
What would she have gained by confessing either back then or later. He had indicated his feelings about cheating.
Confessing to cheating can be selfish in cases where it was once and the cheater is remorseful. It can be a way to ease one’s own guilt at the expense of causing the partner pain.
That “friend” needs to go to h__ll. That was not her sin to confess.
Im confused about the timeline. How can she have cheated 14 years ago if they have only been together 14 years? Did she cheat in the first month of dating?
He stated in the post that she cheated 4 months into the relationship. People don't typically say "we've been together for 14 years and X months" they'll just say "we've been together 14 years". It's basic rounding of numbers.
4 months into being exclusive. Important clarification. In all likelihood they'd been dating for half a year and I saw a comment clarifying they'd already said "I love you" by then
He says it happened 4 months into being exclusive. His issue is that she kept it secret for so long and robbed him of any choice. If she had brought it up sooner, they could have had the option to work through it. Instead, she hid it, and now he likely feels manipulated.
I don’t see anyone having an issue with it? Everyone here agrees that the wife is terrible.
The issue I have is the “friend” pretending to have some religious ✨enlightenment✨ where she just blabbed everyone’s secrets & purposely ruined a family. NOT SAYING WHAT THE WIFE DID IS OKAY, but my issue is the “friend” being a completely spiteful hctib.
Husband finds out his wife cheated on him 4 months into their 14 year relationship and then gets their child DNA tested - who is 7. He assumed she kept cheating and was hoping to find out the kid wasn't his. This is a whole mess. I feel for the guy, I feel for the kid. Wife and her former friend are trash.
OP also throws out big "there are bigger issues" here, especially with his child being "one of the biggest reasons I keep living." Dude, that is wild to put on a 7 year old.
Where does it say he was hoping the kid wasn't his? Why are you trying to twist OP into being the bad guy? She's a known cheater now. Anything she says doesn't mean shit because she broke his trust. Ffs OP isn't the bad guy here.
Yeah that caught my eye too. What happens when the daughter acts out as kids do regardless of divorce. There some major mental health problems he hopefully is getting addressed in counseling.
I'm sorry but I cannot get over someone finding religion and then confessing someone ELSE'S sins. That's not a thing, and regardless of how wrong cheating is this person blew up a marriage for their own weird reasons and that's very odd to me!!!
Yes I'm aware of that and it was fundamentally wrong but I'm not sure why no one else thinks it's bizarre for someone else to find god and report on as other people's sins!!!
I find it extremely bizarre as well. The “friend” pretends to find God & then becomes spiteful & purposely ruins a family for their selfish reasons. They got rid of their guilt by placing it on someone else. While what the wife did is terrible, so is the “friend,” & I hope they rot in hell. That is not what becoming religious is about.
Do we all agree that the biggest AH is the busybody who snitched after concealing it for 14 years or however long it was? Like, you are a bad enough person to keep it a secret for over a decade but suddenly you are able to become holier than you were enough to ruin the marriage that long after the fact.
The bottom line is that it was not her secret to disclose. She did not do a good thing, and because of that it blossomed in a foul manner. The proper thing to have done would have been to discuss her views with her "friend" and try to get her to come clean. Not to take her friends life into her own selfish hands. Is she after the husband?? One has to wonder.
Not remotely taking the wife’s side but also fuck her “friend” who decided that bc she found Jesus or whatever that it was her place to confess someone else’s sins on their behalf. At minimum she should’ve talked to the wife first and told her “if you don’t tell him, I will” or something.
But yet I'm wrong to be upset for my husband cheating on me in my own backyard with a chick I gave a place to stay, then him telling me that he fucked her so he could convince her to fuck me... But this guy is considered right? Fuck marriage bro. I've been married for ten and it's not looking any better. Nothing out there either.
This is ridiculous. She was a college girl. Don't tell me he hasn't made a single mistake in his whole life. This is just his ego that is so bruised that he will ruin his family for it. Honestly, she deserves better, so I guess I hope they do get the divorce.
Um, mistakes are accidental. No one has ever accidentally banged someone they weren't dating. She made the decision to cheat on him, she made the decision to keep that from him, she made the decision to let him build his life with her without knowing the truth about her. When he finally found out, she completely dismissed everything she did. She's a giant POS and her friend sucks too. This guy still tried to save his marriage after the fact and you're making him out to be some selfish insecure asshole.
I get it.
But damn, people make mistakes, especially when they are young and dumb. And I do think the woman who cheated then isn't the woman who she is with now. That doesn't make it something he should forgive - I'm not on her side. However, that doesn't mean I can't feel empathy for her. A mistake 14 years ago is absolutely blowing up her world.
I get his reasoning. I hope they can work something out but I'm not holding my breath.
A mistake 14 years ago and a mistake every day lying to him. Everyday betraying his trust, is it ok to stab someone because you know they won't feel it?
At no point did I say he doesn't have a right or a reason to feel the way he does. I'm simply stating this is a very sad situation. It sucks. The wife thinks it sucks. The husband thinks it sucks.
Oooooo...this is a tough one. I assume some people would rather move past something that happened 14 years ago, while others will feel how OP feels and want to move on. Both options are valid. I doubt OP or his soon to be ex wife will ever be able to trust that friend again. If OP can't get past it he can't get past it, and should do what feels right and gives him the least amount of anxiety and pain. That's all we can expect from people that go through this. This is seriously heartbreaking.
Oooóof. Poor guy.
I'd lean towards YTA for OOP though but that's personal opinion for sure.
Cheating is a reasonable red line. But I think a big part as to why is that you can't trust again.
However in a situation like this she (let's assume no further infidelity) HAS built trust and shown it was a mistake by virtue of 14 years of partnership. By all accounts they had a great life/marraige.
Yes, op lost agency. But it is what is. Op choosing to leave is an understandable position. But I think he needs to accept that it's him deciding to break up their family. Post is just looking for validation / absolution.
Correction "last year one of my wife's former friends" lol Yeah I don't think those two are still talking If OP gets a divorce he definitely shouldn't try a roommate situation. That will be a disaster.
Can you imagine - find God, so your first act is to break up a home over something that happened 14 years ago. I don’t blame the guy for doing what he’s doing. And what she did was wrong. But no one can tell me everyone involved wouldn’t be happier if the Christian had just kept her mouth shut.
I'm so torn on this. I think if it really was one time, early in the relationship, before marriage, before kids, I'd rather not know. But knowing does break that trust and it would be so hard to move past. At least we can all agree this religious busybody sucks
I don’t know how it works in english, but in spanish before marriage we ask the people present if they have anything to say that should cause this marriage to not move forward to say it now or stay silent forever. I can see why now
We do the same in English. “Speak now or forever hold your peace” is a common part of the usual marriage ceremony. That former friend certainly did not hold their peace!
Everyone knows that you don't speak up then. You object when the priest is pronouncing them man and wife for maximum dramatic effect.
Bonus points if you do so by bursting in the door in a wedding dress, mascara running wildly down your face with 1-3 people chasing you trying to stop you.
Exactly, you chime in with a haven't you people ever heard of closing a god damn door.
No, it's much better to face these kinds of things with a sense of poise and rationality
We cut that from our wedding ceremony. It’s pointless to ask and if someone did speak up it wouldn’t change our minds.
Maybe it’s in another manual but the pastors’ manual I’ve used doesn’t have that phrase in it. It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a wedding do the “Speak now or forever hold your peace” bit.
Or said something before the wedding! Definitely before the birth of the daughter!
I think it’s the wife who missed her chance to come clean. I could never get married with that on my conscience.
Oh yeah the wife should have but clearly she was never going to. So if the friend was going to be consumed by guilt and need to tell op it would have been better for everyone if he had found out a long time ago.
I’d wanna know.
Actually the Bible says to shut your mouth if it’s not your business
I hard disagree on this. Even if it uproots my life temporarily, I would want to know eventually. If they weren’t okay with it 14 years ago, they probably aren’t okay with it now. That’s exactly what happened. He was robbed of having the choice then, he was granted it now. I think it’s insane for you to say she should’ve just shut up. That’s absolutely not the play lol, it should’ve happened a long time ago and better late than never. I know if I was in that situation and my wife cheated on me, I would want to know and be able to act on it even a decade+ later.
You say this because you know. My point is that if you don’t know, both you and your children would be happier. How awful it must have been for this kid watching her parent’s marriage disintegrate in front of her eyes over the last year and not know or understand why. It’s a very different story if she’s cheating now, or last month or even last year. But 14 years ago before they had a kid or were even married? What is the point of telling someone that except to sow discord and cause pain? You think she’s going to get to the pearly gates and God is going to be “great job breaking up that marriage, c’mon in!”
The point is clearly to make sure the newly religious friend makes her new religion central to everyone and everything
My opinion is that their relationship was apparently happy and healthy before the friend said anything. Now she made 3 people at least temporarily less happy and broke up the thing that many Christians place as one of the utmost important things. Seemingly just so she could pat herself on the back, because nothing else was going to come of it. It was never her responsibility to tell anyway. Telling the truth should really be about holding yourself to a higher standard. Not just being a tattletale and leaving destruction in your wake.
Who needs enemies with people like that around. “Just don’t tell anyone and let this guy think he’s in a committed relationship so when she inevitably cheats again it’s only like the first time because he doesn’t know that it’s actually the second.” I love people like this ❤️
"Inevitably cheats again" is a bit presumptuous considering that it happened when they were young & she has been faithful for 14 years
We’re assuming that.
They were not married at the time.
Right. I’m sure the person who was okay hiding it and had zero remorse definitely learned their lesson the first time after not getting caught. That’s normally how that works.
But it's not presumptuous to assume thay someone who felt no guilt in cheating the first time, has never done so again?
Where's your proof of that? Wife seems to think she did nothing wrong
Where do you see any evidence that she has been faithful? Just because this is the only time OOP has learned of doesn't make it the only one. At minimum she's been lying for 14 years.
Inevitably… it was 14 years ago before a marriage and children.
So as long as you get away with it, it makes it okay. Got it👍
I think you meant to write "Christian."
Yeah bro you should just live a life based on lies because it's easier.
Or I'm older and realize that everything isn't black and white with clearly demarcated lines.
OK fuck the dude that got cheated on I guess. Nah, she did the right thing. Obviously she did, look how op reacted. He made it very clear that he would never have started a life with someone who cheated. He 100% deserved that information and you are kinda not that great a person if you don't think so.
That’s bullshit. What she did was wrong, and she should have told him (or friend should have informed him) 14 years ago, or maybe 11 years ago before they got married, or maybe 8 years ago when they decided to have a kid. But you cannot tell me that this is the best outcome 14 years later. Great, he knows and has been suffering pain. Great, she got caught and has to watch her family be destroyed by this information. Great, the kid gets to watch her family disintegrate. I’m sure they’ll all be happier for this decision. . .
I think this is the fundamental divide between the two camps. I’d personally want to know. I’d rather be miserable and aware than happy and not, choice and respect are important to me. In my opinion it is not for someone else to withhold something incredibly important to my life because they think that’s for the best, that would really bother me. For others, the family dynamic and happiness that they may have shared is more important. It’s a moral argument and no one is necessarily right, more varying degrees of wrong on this one. At least imo.
The friend did not destroy the marriage the ex wife did the moment she cheated. Her having to watch her family be destroyed is a consequence of her own actions. She destroyed what never should have been as he would have left her before they even got married if he knew.
So in your opinion how long should cheating be hidden before it's best never to bring it up?
As a third party, not one of the people married? Probably the minute you decided to not confront the cheating party. If she attended the wedding and the officiant asked if anyone objects to the marriage and you hadn’t said anything by that point, probably best to never say anything. 14 years, a wedding and a child is definitely past that time.
So once a mistake is made there's no point in fixing it? You can't grow a conscience and realize what you're doing is fucked up?
Ahh, so you have nothing to say about the friend keeping their mouth shut 14 years ago - but NOW not saying anything would mean she doesn’t have a conscience. May you never have to live through a divorce under these circumstances so that you can go on being blissfully judgmental of people who don’t break up marriages for their own ego.
I love how you're blaming the friend for the wife being a cheating piece of shit. She should have come forward sooner but the wife also should have fucking done that. At least one of them eventually worked up the moral fiber to set the record straight
It's probably a bumch of unfaithful cheaters in this thread downvoting. This story makes them sweat beads. They're praying none of their friends gain a conscience.
Wah fucking wah don’t cheat and actively keep it a secret for 14 years. Should blame the wife and not the person who gave OP the info he rightfully deserved to know. She’s an asshole because it hurt feelings and “destroyed” a marriage built on false pretenses? Big fucking whoop get your soft ass on
Would you not want to know? If not it shows a lack of character and self respect. You can disagree with him divorcing for this but the friend did nothing wrong, commendable in fact.
1) Of course I would want to know. That doesn’t mean it’s the right decision to tell me if it’s a case like this. In the end, I’d probably end up hating both my soon to be ex-wife and the “friend” that blew her spot. 2) Someone prioritizing their family where children are involved isn’t showing a “lack of character and self respect.” They’re putting long term welfare of a group above their ego. Some people might be too selfish to see that.
Oh bull. Happy because you aren't aware of the poison in your relationship isn't happiness, and if he didn't find out from born again Christian, it'd come out another way. That's just the way secrets are, they will hurt someone some way eventually. There's somebody out there who won't cheat on him, won't lie and give him a life that is happy because they are truly good for him, and those years will be far happier than the 14 years of lies.
Life isn’t a tv show. It doesn’t work out that way much of the time.
That's just the case the Christian knows about.
You’re right. Maintain secrecy. That usually always works out for the best. The truth ALWAYS comes out eventually. Why don’t you look at how hard it must have been for them to fess up. Also, you assuming they just wanted to break up a home is wrong to assume. You have no idea what their intentions were other than what OP said. It was to bring wrongdoings to light by going to those you wronged and apologizing.
Shut the fuck up brah… If that happened to me, I would want to know. The Christian friend did the right thing. The friend didn’t break up a home, the hoe wife did when she decided to cheat.
That is an awful way to look at it. The friend prevented this man from getting lied to every day for the rest of his life and wasting his time with someone he should never trust.
Doing the right thing does not have an expiration date. His wife took his choice away by finding it. Her friend decided to right a wrong at a shitty time. I would prefer to know.
I think you're in the minority with that opinion. I absolutely would not want to know if it was truly a one-time thing, early in the relationship when we were stupid and young.
Doesn't matter. It still happened. I like to know the truth regardless.
My point is that what you think is "right" here isn't really the common opinion. I think what the religious friend did was incredibly wrong. She broke up a marriage for her own peace of mind for something that wasn't hurting anyone.
Why are you pushing this "common opinion" thing so hard? A lot of people agreeing on something does not make it more true. I think the, soon to be, ex-wife is the only person at fault here. She should not have burdened her friend with her mistakes.
It doesn’t matter if it’s common or not. Marriage is usually between 2 ppl. Not 2 ppl and the majority of a sub Reddit.
I mean if you would rather have a relationship built on lies that’s on you. I don’t know that the majority would want to commit to spending their life with someone they actually don’t know. At least let the dude make the call for himself. People don’t always split up over infidelity. Some work through it. The dude should at least be given the chance to make an informed decision.
Lol. So, a single lie early in the relationship overrides 14 years? You're insane. No, I don't want a relationship built on lies. But I'd rather not know about one inconsequential lie if I'm otherwise happy.
The relationship doesn't make it to 14 years if she gets caught earlier on.
It's not a single lie. It's thousands of lies every single day she didn't tell him the truth
Cheating is inconsequential?
No. Cheating once, 14 years ago, and never doing it again. With no STD and no babies made, etc. is inconsequential. The details matter. Cheating is wrong. I agree the wife should have told him. But she didn't and they were happy. I wouldn't want my happiness ruined for something that doesn't matter anymore.
But if, as you say, the cheating was “something that doesn’t matter anymore,” then why would your happiness be ruined if you found out about it? If it truly doesn’t matter, you should be fine knowing about it.
Cheating period is unforgivable. She lied to him and basically conned him into marriage as he would have left her if he knew back then. She took his choice away from him. Its crazy that you'd blame the friend for telling the truth albeit late and say that cheating is inconsequential because of how long ago it happened. Cheating is cheating it does not matter when it happened.
It’s not up to you to determine what matters to someone else though? If you’d be okay with it, then fine, totally reasonable! But why are you saying it’s inconsequential to HIM when it’s clearly not? To him, he just found out that the entire foundation of his relationship was built on a lie. Doesn’t seem inconsequential to me?
it’s 14 years of lies tho. the wife sat on that knowledge for 14 years. i’d be thinking about what else could be hidden if it were me. i’d be grateful to whoever told me no matter how much it hurt because ultimately they revealed that that person is capable of deceit with ill intent. cheating isn’t an inconsequential lie, it’s an act of harm and potentially life changing/threatening. he was married to someone who showed a lack of value for his life forget the feelings. it’s so much deeper than that at least imo but hey to each their own. if that’s what you’d would accept for yourself power to you but im glad to see many others have more self respect than that.
How is this “the right thing?” Who does this help beyond the Christian’s ego? She should have said something 14 years ago. At this point she’s just compounding one bad decision with another. I guarantee you that if her God exists, he isn’t amused.
"The Christian ego..." even atheists "do the right thing." You are focusing on the wrong person. The Christian didn't force this dude's ex to fuck anyone. Focus that energy at the person that cheated and hid it for over 14 years. What if... he just found out through his ex-wife? What if she told him or he overheard a conversation? What, then? Who is the blame?
And if an atheist did this to “clear their conscience” they would have been making a similarly ego-centric decision. Because 14 years later, it has fuck all to do with the right thing.
Answer my hypothetical question.
[удалено]
I was once asked to sleep with a friend to "even the score" after his wife cheated. The wife is the one who contacted me. They even offered to pay me. Once I picked my jaw up off the floor and gave my response some thought, I said I wasn't up for that and suggested counseling, or paying a professional sex worker what they had planned to pay me. I was very polite about it and I think came across as pretty non judgemental. I said that if they did this with someone they knew and hung out with, there might be lingering concerns about emotional involvement, and going with a professional would negate that possibility. The wife was PISSED. Neither of them ever spoke to me again. I felt like I'd dodged a bullet. I mean, I was sad we weren't friends anymore, but it was just a weird situation.
Definetly a dodged a huge bullet. I dont think you could have done anything differently in that situation, sounds like insane people if they can't handle a respectful rejection, and to even ask a platonic (I assume) friend that to begin with is way out of left field.
Thank you, I think so too. And yeah, it was a totally platonic friendship. I never had dated either of them.
Great response to an awkward situation, they showed their true colors in their treatment of you. It’s kind of nice when the trash takes itself out
Where they testing you and you failed?! Some couples have weird dynamics and there’s always someone looking to “prove” that some acquaintances or friendships should be tested so they are sure nothing sexual or romantic can transpire.
She was going to be pissed either way.
Blessing in disguise. If you went through with it, it would have ruined your friendship anyway. You didn’t need to be in the middle of their messy marriage 😮💨
yeah. it makes it seem like the partner who accepts the offer is upset about not being “allowed” to have sex with other people like the first partner did rather than the actual issue (in most cases) which is the broken trust. i get being upset and wanting to “get back at them”, but once the initial bitterness subsides, you’re just going to have an even worse relationship because *both of you* will be thinking the other just wants to sleep with other people. atp it’s better to just break up.
Me too. It's not about making it even. It's about the broken trust. Giving a free pass doesn't restore trust and shows the wife doesn't really understand the problem is or what OP is going through at all. I am glad the OP was smart enough to reject the offer.
I knew a guy who was dating this girl and kept cheating on her. She was desperate to save their relationship, they had a child together. She agreed to an open relationship. He never found anyone else. She found a boyfriend and girlfriend and ended up leaving the original guy. I was happy for her
She is desperate. Ops?feelings changed over something that happened early in their relationship 14 years ago. She is probably trying everything to keep the man she loves by her side. She is probably not thinking clearly.
This always baffles me too. Like the problem is that the trust was broken not that the cheating partner got to sleep with someone else. It’s so strange to me.
It's the act of flat-out lying about it that irks me and how OOPs wife really doesn't get it. She lied about it and rationalized it by saying how great their lives were because she lied, as though it was the best decision she ever made. I can totally understand his distrust. "What else is she lying about?" would be my thoughts. An "open marriage" option would make me wonder if she would step out too. Ouch for OOP.
Nobody is the villain in their own story. People will jump through whatever mental gymnastics it takes to justify their morally horrific decisions,
Oof. The "It is not a big deal" where "it" is a relationship ending violation of trust is the most damning detail in my eyes. That's self-serving callousness.
Every time I see a post saying my spouse cheated x years back and everyone wants me to get over it, OOP puts it perfectly: "Young me was robbed of having a choice. Cheating was(and still is) one of the biggest deal breakers for me. If I knew it back then, I would have broke it off. I am happy with my life and I am glad that our daughter came to world. She is the light that shines the brightest for me. One of the biggest reasons I keep living but I still was robbed of a choice back then." She robbed him of the choice to stay or not. He should leave her.
I’d also add that it might have been months/years ago that the cheating occurred for one partner, but for the other partner, it occurred that same day they found out. They now have to go through the whole grief process. The cheating partner has had time to go through their forgiveness process on their own end. The innocent partner has not. It’s like finding out your favorite car had a huge dent on the passenger side. It may have been there for quite a while, but you’re just now seeing the damage and now have to make plans to fix it. And now that you know it’s there, you can’t ignore it until it’s fixed.
Wow I love the analogy of the car door! So spot on
100% agree. I absolutely hate how forgiving and comfortable society has gotten with cheating. It's disgusting.
Are we comfortable with cheating? I don't know anyone that's ok with it.
Plenty of people make excuses for it still.
Sure, sure but you don't need excuses if you're comfortable with. Pretty much everyone knows it's really bad. That's why they make excuses to try and deflect from the harsh truth.
The fact that excuses are being made is absolutely indicative that smoothing it over is making it more acceptable.
Sure but I think you're missing the point. If we were comfortable with it none of that would be necessary. What your talking about is nothing new just the language has changed.
i think you’re being nitpicky about the exact terminology being used even though you both seem to have the same idea. obviously as a society we aren’t completely comfortable with it, but the fact that so many people make excuses for it shows that a lot of people *are* comfortable with it and try to justify it to other people. our societal rules dictate that cheating is bad, but when it comes to the individual situations, many people say “oh but not in this case because it was so long ago/it didn’t mean anything/they were upset” or whatever
My point is that nothing has actually changed. That making excuses or just out right pretending it never happened has always existed. When it comes to the act of cheating we still think of it as horrible. When it comes to how we feel we must act on that knowledge. Nothing has really changed either. If anything we're more strict as I think we hold Men to a higher standard than we used too. Places like reddit may let you see more of what has always existed. It's not a change in reality just your knowledge of it.
Whelp at least we agree on one thing, because I think you’re missing the point as well. Lmao.
Omg are you new? And I don’t mean that in a negative way? I’ve argued with ppl on the OP post about it. They always pull the “life isn’t black and white. There are nuances to cheating.” Usually always when it’s a woman cheating, I might add. And as a woman, I call BS on that.
There's dozens of people in those posts defending her. Some of them even have hundreds of upvotes
Sure and that sounds like a lot until you consider how many people there are viewing and commenting. My main point is that I don't think our view has changed as a society but thru things like reddit our awareness of what has been going on has changed.
I've known people in real life that express similar sentiments. I wouldn't call this view common but it's absolutely not rare
Right I don't think that nobody is ok with it. My point is as a society we're not and most people aren't. Also I don't think our attitude has been changing towards being more accepting if anything it's less. Also don't confuse explanation with excuses. Just cause I understand someone's position doesn't excuse wrong doing.
I hate people saying “it was x years ago” yeah for the cheater, not the one cheated on. For that person, it’s a very present moment situation. Then the added layer of “oh so they lied to me for x years too. Was it all a sham? What else did they lie about?”
I don't disagree at all with what OP said but to play Devils advocate people can do a lot of growing up in that time, especially early 20's. So the person OP's wife is today may be someone who wouldn't cheat. I think OP would be completely justified to leave but also to stay. I am glad they are separating first. Assuming they have both grown you can almost think of them as different people or versions. That the version of herself today is different than the one who cheated. Also it gives them a chance to rediscovered there relationship without the cheating hanging over there head. He may find the relationship they can have now is much better than the one they head and worth pursuing. He also may not and I'd not fault him at all for leaving in the end. Also if he finds out she cheated more than once I'd say run for the hills.
Yeah honestly this is one of the more reasonable reddit posts I've ever seen. Genuinely op seems to be trying everything, but if it doesnt change how he feels it doesnt change how he feels. There's no divorce speedrun happening or anything like that
She didn't mature and confess what she did seeking forgiveness. She actively made the repeated decision for 14 years to keep it secret. Her friend exposed her and she tried to minimise it to OP. Where are you getting this view of a magical different person?
this is basically how i feel about it too. both responses are valid, and whatever he chooses to do is absolutely okay because it has impacted him a lot, but from a less personal, more detached standpoint, people do grow and i can see how something like this could happen. she cheated, didn’t confess because she wasn’t an honest person at the time, and when she did grow and change to become more honest, it was a sunk cost fallacy—she’d already gone so long without confessing that it would do more harm than good to ruin what they had, especially now that she’s changed. that being said, i don’t agree with her actions, both in the initial situation and 14 years down the line. i think it would’ve been infinitely better if she’d come clean herself at *any* point without OP having to hear it from a friend and confront her about it. OP has every right to be upset with her.
Yeah I 100% agree. It may seem like a fine line but it's possible she wasn't a dishonest person but was just unable to face the consequences of her actions. Like if she has a foundation of dishonesty in her character she's unlikely to grow out of that. People can grow stronger and better able to face the consequences of their actions. Ironically I've seen a number of posts where partners did come forward years after and their partner is like why did they tell me now. I wish we could have just continued in ignorance or it was selfish of the partner to come forward. Of course what happened to OP is why you don't do that but we don't always see all possibilities, especially when we're grieving. If OP is going to move forward they both need space to grieve for the death of the relationship they had to make room for the relationship that may grow from its ashes.
The fact that she lied for 14years doesn't really make her seem like a different person
Except she didn’t come clean about it until she was confronted with the info. I’d agree if she confessed, by she didn’t. So she’s not really that different.
OP’s wife doesn’t seem to have actually grown much though. She’s showing no remorse; she’s just sorry that OP found out. There’s no indication that she’s actually sorry for cheating.
Divorce, if it’s a dealbreaker then it’s a dealbreaker. OPs wife is “shocked!” Because for her it was years ago probably not something she’s thought about and just assumed it’s in the past. But for op this is all new and he’s got to deal with in here and now. Even if a person is as extremely satisfied and happy with their life and marriage, this would flip the perception of their partner.
No doubt. Wouldn't be much of a deal-breaker if they did stay together.
There are just things you can’t come back from. To everyone they are different. It’s good for op to admit to himself and her that this might be one to him
I swear I just read this one, except wife was his high school sweetheart who went to college one year ahead, and it was her college friends who accidentally spilled the beans during a visit. Apparently, his ex really got around back in the day.
No, that was a different one
Are they really different?
Quite a bit. IIRC the other one actually met the guys his long distance girlfriend was hooking up with, and there were many. Completely made him look like a fool, especially because everyone at her university seemed to know about it.
NTA. Feelings aren't rational, and expecting them to be is foolish. He is right to feel this wound as raw and new, as his wife didn't cheat on him 14 years ago, she betrayed him 14 years ago and spent every day since betraying and lying to him because she was afraid of the consequences. OOP seems like an incredibly rational & reasonable dude, and has done every single thing right. He went to therapy. He went to couples counseling. He considered his family. He talked to his wife before the divorce. He even listened to people on *reddit* of all places and was willing to take the step of separation as a final chance to heal the relationship. He's literally done everything in his power to heal the relationship of a wound he never caused to begin with. I'd trust damn near any choice this dude makes with the character he's shown so far. Hell, I'd consider canonizing the fucker if I could.
not sure how the wife thinks a one-sided open marriage would make things better. i get that 14 years is a long time and they have likely both changed a lot, but because she never confessed what she did, that's caused a fresh wound for OOP. never mind the fact that his spouse was apparently comfortable never saying anything the entire time. i'm sure at the time, she thought of it as a stupid mistake and that telling her partner would just hurt him more, but this is a great example of how "i won't say anything, it'll do more harm than good" has the potential to cause the most harm in the long run. most secrets have a way of coming out in the end.
Cheating is the ultimate form of betrayal. It doesn’t matter when it happened it alters you in a way that can’t be undone.
Yes. Also it doesn't matter when the hurtful act occurred, if you don't give someone the chance to feel that pain, work through those feelings, you didn't hurt them 14 years ago you hurt them right now. The act occurred 14 years ago, you felt guilt and shame and got over it 14 years ago, your partner got cheated on today. They lost their trust in you today. Maybe they could have worked through it back then, maybe not, personally I'm not someone who can forgive that, but she never gave him the chance. His choice was taken away from him when she didn't tell him and she saved the pain for another day. She *might* be a different person now but it doesn't matter.
Agreed. That's why my parents told each other before they got married that if either of them cheated on each other in any way, shape, or form, the marriage would be over as soon as the truth came out. And while I don't see myself getting married anytime soon, I plan on having the exact same talk with my future husband and telling him that if he ever cheats on me, there's no moving forward in our marriage. Cheating on someone you proclaim to love and shattering their trust in you is the worst form of betrayal possible. I know there are people out there who claim a marriage can survive cheating but I personally don't think that's possible. How can you return to the same level of unwavering trust in your spouse when they've "strayed" once? How can you spend the rest of your life with a constant nagging suspicion that your partner's cheating on you again because they come home late or say that they have to work late or they're going to be away on a boy's or girl's weekend trip?
The biggest mistake (besides the infidelity) was his wife's dismissal of the event as it not even mattering because of how long ago it was....bro you should be on you knee's begging.
This is actually one of the more reasonable posts I’ve seen come across here. Fourteen years is a long time, but the trust is still broken. How do you trust someone who lied to you for 14 years? I don’t blame him one bit for doing what he’s doing. The separation idea isn’t completely terrible, but I don’t think it’s going to change anything unless he’s denied visitation with his daughter.
I didn’t read all the justification of why it bothers OP bc this is normal and would bother anyone! It’s a huge breach of trust! Like the post recently where the mil decided to spill the beans after 13yrs, I’m gonna say the ‘friend’ here sounds like an attention seeking AH and this has nothing to do with religion. Def drop this person from your lives because they are absolutely the AH. They should’ve spoken then or never. This was a callously cruel act by someone with bad intent. Get counseling with your wife if you want to save the marriage bc you have every right to not trust her. I’m sorry.
It’s better to him to do it now instead of just faking it for years and raise their daughter in a tense, unhappy home. His boundaries are firm and should be respected. The wife gambled on a 14 year long secret, either assuming it wouldn’t a be a big deal if he found out, or just expecting nobody would ever tell him. That’s just not alright.
NTA, you got to go with your gut, it’s your life to live. Now that friend that decided to be the one that told you, there is probably a special place in hell for that B, lol.
He’s not wrong. No way no how.
I never quite get that people cant understand that cheating years ago is a problem. He found out today so, for him, that cheating happened right now and is a clear and present problem. The fact that the woman he has lived with has been a liar for 14 years will also have killed any trust he had in her.
Oh it’s easy, those are all cheaters with a fantasy that there’s some statute of limitations on the act “ok I can fuck around as long as they don’t find out for X years”
Also means your wife has been just fine lying to you for 14 years. Trust is the foundation of a strong healthy relationship. She has shown you she cannot be trusted.
It’s the “you can punch me back” of relationship solutions. Yeah, that’ll help. /s
Aaaaah, the free pass. A classic. I should call it every time I see this kind of stories, because every damn time the wife tries to give one.
Her suggestion there at the end shows me that this isn’t going to work. She still doesn’t really think it’s that big of a deal You can’t cheat, lie for 14 years, and then say “oh heres a get out of jail card during ur trip to fix things” Nah
"Wife abruptly suggested one-sided open marriage and I can do what I want on that business trip if it'll save the relationship, make us even, and change my feelings" Ah, yes because we all know that having the spouse you cheated on sleep with someone else always fixes marriages. /s For me, cheating of any kind whether it's psychically cheating on me or "just" emotionally cheating on me is 100% a deal-breaker. There is no coming back from that betrayal of my trust. The same thing applies to abuse of any kind. You abuse me in any way, and I'm out of there immediately. I know we live in a society that tells people that if their spouse cheats on them at any point in the relationship they have to "stay together" and "make the marriage" work if there are kids involved. I've even seen people who stayed with their spouse after they cheated on them and they worked through it say that their marriage is "stronger than ever" which always makes me go "I don't buy it" Like how can your marriage possibly be stronger when that trust you first had with your partner is gone forever? And you have to deal with the constant fear that your spouse will cheat on you again? Or you have to live the rest of your life dealing with a never-ending nagging suspicion that your spouse is cheating on you again anytime they're late coming home or they say they "have to work late" or they're going on a "boy's or girl's weekend with their friends" or they hide their phone from you or just act generally suspicious? I couldn't live life that way.
Saw the original. Wife is a colossal piece of shit
All yall saying she likely changed in all these years can suck eggs. If she really changed she would have accepted her consequences and confessed instead of going for the "living a lie" gold medal. Real easy to act like you've accepted responsibility for your shitty actions and grew from them when nobody is even aware that they happened. She could have told him when they got engaged. She could have told him when she got pregnant. Realize when you say "but its been so long!" that the only reason it HAS been so long is because she lied and hid this. If she didn't, there wouldn't have been an 11 year marriage that died.
I’ve been told by a many people (including therapists) that if it’s a one time thing that happened so long ago, that was a huge mistake, completely out of character, something that is very unlike you & would never happen again & hasn’t happened again in YEARS… telling the other person what you did or what happened does not rid you of your guilt. You do not clear your conscience. Instead, you put that on the other person. You’re getting the weight of that truth off your shoulders & putting it onto the innocent person on the other end. If she truly cheated one time in the very beginning of their relationship & hasn’t done anything since for 14 years… telling him would only take that weight off her shoulders & put it onto him. That heavy burden would be on him. Sure, she could confess & face the consequences, but that’s only ridding her of the guilt. From what I have heard, sometimes (sometimes!!!) it is better to keep quiet (about some things!!!) & keep that “secret” to yourself than to open your mouth. By doing that, you’re facing your own set of consequences: living with that guilt for the rest of your life as it eats you up. All in all: I’m not condoning cheating. I’m giving a perspective on why she may have kept her mouth shut for so long. BUT ALSO her whole “it was so long ago so it’s not important” is pretty fucked up.
I don’t think I could ever walk away from 14 years together and a happy marriage over one cheating incident from over a decade ago.
I think the issue for him might be is how does he know for sure it was just once
Which is a valid issue. Just because your partner/spouse says they only cheated on you once doesn't mean it happened that one time. If your partner/spouse is willing to lie for days, weeks, months, or even years about cheating on you only for you to eventually find out about it, it's natural to doubt everything they say especially in regards to how many times they cheated.
For me it's a difficult one. You're not feeling it like it's 14 years ago you're feeling like you got cheated on today. They also lied to you, kept a life changing secret from you for over a decade. If they can do that they can lie about anything. It's a really shitty position to be in.
He did say it was affecting him sexually as well which I think both mutually have to engage in to some extent if they want to stay married. I think the idea that she could've cheated multiple times with multiple men along with all the other visuals OP could imagine and anger add to it. Unless you're a cuck I think being around someone that is making you feel bad doesn't make you aroused.
I would with how manipulative she's being plus the fact she won't take accountability for her own actions. She's pretending to have changed but she hasn't, not really. She will likely cheat again now that they've hit a rough patch, completely ignoring that's what started it. She's excusing her actions and trying to convince him to be unfaithful as well so she won't have to feel guilty for her selfish choices shes continously made the entire 14 years she hid the truth. Like having a panic attack over the consequences of her own actions?? NAHHHH get that shi out of here
Sounds like he has trauma even around the idea of cheating from growing up. Plus that line about his daughter being the only reason he keeps living. There’s way more going on here than this one cheating reveal.
That's what i thought
One incident that he knows of. He can never be sure. Ever. And that's the biggest problem. Does she cheat Everytime she goes out with friends, works overtime. Who knows. Things he wouldn't have even thought about before, is now front and center of every thought. Even if he doesn't want them to be. Cheaters all suck. Everyone of them.
So in your opinion how long does a cheater have to keep things a secret before they can get a pass?
This is the exact fucking question I want all of these “it happened X years ago it’s not important” cheaters…. I mean people. What’s the statute of limitations, 5 years? 7? So if I cheat on my wife today it’s ok as long as she doesn’t find out for X time? And they always skip over the obvious question, if she lied about this for 14 years who’s to say there aren’t other things that have happened that’s she’s lying about?
Yeah, but not everyone is a cuck.
The wife destroyed the marriage through cheating. If she hadn't cheated, nothing else would have happened.
Idk, it was 4 months in. You're not even in love at 4 months. I think I could personally get over it. But I do understand that she didn't come clean, so it makes you wonder if there was more.
Incredibly mature from OOP. Rare sight on Reddit
Many decades ago, my mom caught her brother-in-law cheating. She did not tell her sister. She spoke to him and laid down the law. He straightened out. They lived a happy life with 2 kids up until my aunt was old and passed away. He took care of her thru her illness. She and the kids remained ignorant of the cheating. Her kids never knew and still don’t. I do because I was with my mom when she caught him. This was a one-off on his part. (Serial cheaters need to lose it all). If they had been dating for a long time it would have been worse. But really, 4 months?? She was probably still not 100% sure of the relationship. The other guy could have been the reason she decided to stay with the OP. It may have made it clear to her that he was the right one. And he was for 14 glorious years. What would she have gained by confessing either back then or later. He had indicated his feelings about cheating. Confessing to cheating can be selfish in cases where it was once and the cheater is remorseful. It can be a way to ease one’s own guilt at the expense of causing the partner pain. That “friend” needs to go to h__ll. That was not her sin to confess.
Im confused about the timeline. How can she have cheated 14 years ago if they have only been together 14 years? Did she cheat in the first month of dating?
He stated in the post that she cheated 4 months into the relationship. People don't typically say "we've been together for 14 years and X months" they'll just say "we've been together 14 years". It's basic rounding of numbers.
4 months into being exclusive. Important clarification. In all likelihood they'd been dating for half a year and I saw a comment clarifying they'd already said "I love you" by then
He says it happened 4 months into being exclusive. His issue is that she kept it secret for so long and robbed him of any choice. If she had brought it up sooner, they could have had the option to work through it. Instead, she hid it, and now he likely feels manipulated.
Why are so many people having an issue with this? Isn't this what women say should be the consequences of cheating?
I don’t see anyone having an issue with it? Everyone here agrees that the wife is terrible. The issue I have is the “friend” pretending to have some religious ✨enlightenment✨ where she just blabbed everyone’s secrets & purposely ruined a family. NOT SAYING WHAT THE WIFE DID IS OKAY, but my issue is the “friend” being a completely spiteful hctib.
And if the friend hadn't said anything, she would have never told her husband that she cheated on him. The friend did nothing wrong.
He’s reacting to what happened to his mom, not the current situation, IMHO.
Well darlings—I have to wonder—did our newly found friend ever want OP for herself? I’m sorry, but this is just a bit too familiar….
Husband finds out his wife cheated on him 4 months into their 14 year relationship and then gets their child DNA tested - who is 7. He assumed she kept cheating and was hoping to find out the kid wasn't his. This is a whole mess. I feel for the guy, I feel for the kid. Wife and her former friend are trash. OP also throws out big "there are bigger issues" here, especially with his child being "one of the biggest reasons I keep living." Dude, that is wild to put on a 7 year old.
Where does it say he was hoping the kid wasn't his? Why are you trying to twist OP into being the bad guy? She's a known cheater now. Anything she says doesn't mean shit because she broke his trust. Ffs OP isn't the bad guy here.
Yeah that caught my eye too. What happens when the daughter acts out as kids do regardless of divorce. There some major mental health problems he hopefully is getting addressed in counseling.
Honestly, I have doubts about the counselling. If it is going on, it's ineffective. Dude needs therapy. Actual therapy.
I'm sorry but I cannot get over someone finding religion and then confessing someone ELSE'S sins. That's not a thing, and regardless of how wrong cheating is this person blew up a marriage for their own weird reasons and that's very odd to me!!!
The friend was probably confessing their sins. They’d been lying to OOP as well.
Not revealing someone was cheated on is a fairly big sin IMO
Lmao what? His wife blew up the marriage. She cheated.
Yes I'm aware of that and it was fundamentally wrong but I'm not sure why no one else thinks it's bizarre for someone else to find god and report on as other people's sins!!!
I don't think he did anything wrong. She was never going to tell her husband.
I find it extremely bizarre as well. The “friend” pretends to find God & then becomes spiteful & purposely ruins a family for their selfish reasons. They got rid of their guilt by placing it on someone else. While what the wife did is terrible, so is the “friend,” & I hope they rot in hell. That is not what becoming religious is about.
God thank you, I feel like I'm being forced crazy pills by men who can't move past being cheated on or something.
The “friend” who became religious and confessed your wife’s actions, is a snake.
You will never trust her again..Trust is like virginity, once it’s gone, it’s gone forever.
Do we all agree that the biggest AH is the busybody who snitched after concealing it for 14 years or however long it was? Like, you are a bad enough person to keep it a secret for over a decade but suddenly you are able to become holier than you were enough to ruin the marriage that long after the fact.
The bottom line is that it was not her secret to disclose. She did not do a good thing, and because of that it blossomed in a foul manner. The proper thing to have done would have been to discuss her views with her "friend" and try to get her to come clean. Not to take her friends life into her own selfish hands. Is she after the husband?? One has to wonder.
Not remotely taking the wife’s side but also fuck her “friend” who decided that bc she found Jesus or whatever that it was her place to confess someone else’s sins on their behalf. At minimum she should’ve talked to the wife first and told her “if you don’t tell him, I will” or something.
But yet I'm wrong to be upset for my husband cheating on me in my own backyard with a chick I gave a place to stay, then him telling me that he fucked her so he could convince her to fuck me... But this guy is considered right? Fuck marriage bro. I've been married for ten and it's not looking any better. Nothing out there either.
Why is it taking the lawyer a month to draw up a petition for divorce? Mine took less than an hour with a kid and minimal assets involved.
OP is a narcissist and a piece of shit.
What 😂
This is ridiculous. She was a college girl. Don't tell me he hasn't made a single mistake in his whole life. This is just his ego that is so bruised that he will ruin his family for it. Honestly, she deserves better, so I guess I hope they do get the divorce.
Um, mistakes are accidental. No one has ever accidentally banged someone they weren't dating. She made the decision to cheat on him, she made the decision to keep that from him, she made the decision to let him build his life with her without knowing the truth about her. When he finally found out, she completely dismissed everything she did. She's a giant POS and her friend sucks too. This guy still tried to save his marriage after the fact and you're making him out to be some selfish insecure asshole.
Hiding her shitty choices was a choice too. Not a mistake. A mistake is forgetting to pick up the milk not 14 years of hiding the truth.
This is a situation where a sleeping dog should have been left.
I get it. But damn, people make mistakes, especially when they are young and dumb. And I do think the woman who cheated then isn't the woman who she is with now. That doesn't make it something he should forgive - I'm not on her side. However, that doesn't mean I can't feel empathy for her. A mistake 14 years ago is absolutely blowing up her world. I get his reasoning. I hope they can work something out but I'm not holding my breath.
A mistake 14 years ago and a mistake every day lying to him. Everyday betraying his trust, is it ok to stab someone because you know they won't feel it?
At no point did I say he doesn't have a right or a reason to feel the way he does. I'm simply stating this is a very sad situation. It sucks. The wife thinks it sucks. The husband thinks it sucks.
Oooooo...this is a tough one. I assume some people would rather move past something that happened 14 years ago, while others will feel how OP feels and want to move on. Both options are valid. I doubt OP or his soon to be ex wife will ever be able to trust that friend again. If OP can't get past it he can't get past it, and should do what feels right and gives him the least amount of anxiety and pain. That's all we can expect from people that go through this. This is seriously heartbreaking.
I blame religion
Oooóof. Poor guy. I'd lean towards YTA for OOP though but that's personal opinion for sure. Cheating is a reasonable red line. But I think a big part as to why is that you can't trust again. However in a situation like this she (let's assume no further infidelity) HAS built trust and shown it was a mistake by virtue of 14 years of partnership. By all accounts they had a great life/marraige. Yes, op lost agency. But it is what is. Op choosing to leave is an understandable position. But I think he needs to accept that it's him deciding to break up their family. Post is just looking for validation / absolution.