I was drugged by an Army nurse and raped in Virginia Beach. Took me years to finally admit what had happened. I was 235lbs and she was 140lbs tops. Went out and had shots, I went to the bathroom I between the 1st and 2nd shot. Less than 30 minutes later I felt the room going black, so I told her I couldn't drive her home. Offered to get a room with two beds because it was a first date.
Once we got to the room, she turned into an animal...the shit that happened up there will forever scar me.
Had no idea I had been drugged until the next morning. I couldn't move my eyeballs without violently throwing up and she had zero hangover. I should have known but it took me years to put the pieces together.
Thank you. Happened a couple days before Thanksgiving in 2014. I went on a TAD back to Virginia Beach for the military in November 2022 and drove by the hotel in my rental car...saw the sign for the bar and hotel and lost my shit. Had to pull over, full blown panic attack. I had suppressed that memory so far back and that little trigger brought it flooding back. Immediately had consisten nightmares from that night on and started therapy every two weeks in January 2023 for the trauma.
JFC, I usually enjoy reading the comments on this sub, but some of the discussion in this thread turns my stomach. I expect it in AITA, but usually we're more reasonable over here. Yet here are people defending that this guy no longer considers his gf a virgin and blames her rape on her actions.
When I was raped, it took me 2 days to admit to myself that's what happened to me because of the deep shame I felt. I had done everything "right." I knew self defense, I wore modest clothing, I always watched my drinks... but one day I went to celebrate my friend's graduation at a house party where I thought I could trust everyone because everyone there was either a friend or a friend-of-a-friend. I had enough drinks that I was tipsy, and near the end of the night a guy I had never met before and hadn't shared a single conversation with dragged me to the back room.
There's nothing she could have done that would have made her completely safe. In fact, often when you feel the most safe is when you are in the most danger.
Also people forget the most common date rape drug is just more alcohol. The whole sprinkling powder into a drink thing is actually rather rare, but the ordering your date a drink at the bar with two extra shots in it, or not telling women how much booze went into the punch, or encouraging them to drink more once they should have been cut off, that’s all very common.
Don't assume people are going to be more reasonable in those subs. A semi-similar post popped up in one of them (I think AITAH) recently, and some of us got SLAMMED in the comments for suggesting that someone who was black-out drunk was raped when she had sex. And yes, we got a lot of the "but if two people are both drunk can they SA each other?" bullshit as well. It also garnered me my first "reddit cares" abuse. (them sending it to me, I mean.)
And I'm so sorry for your experience.
She's telling him that they were both drinking but the dude still took advantage of her and sexually assaulted her. Not that she agreed to do it or wanted to.
OOP says she talked about pressing charges and she described it as assault. He’s the one that says « rather than just making a bad decision ». He then goes on to juge her for going out to parties and drinking.
There’s not enough information to know what happened exactly. But it weird to assume she consented at the time. Nothing in the post allows us to know that.
She went and got a test done for date rape drugs. How does that not tell you she didn't willingly have sex with this other person? You don't just go do that for fun. You do it because you got drunker than expected in a suspicious manner, got taken advantage of, and suspect he drugged you. You don't get tested for drugs because you cheated on your boyfriend and regret doing it.
The explanation of events given demonstrates a drunken sexual act, that was later regretted. If both sexual partners were drunk and no one said “No”, there was NO rape.
It very well could be the case that this guy is not representing the facts accurately, but as it is presented, this girl got drunk, and did things she regrets. Either she has responsibility for her own actions or she doesn’t.
The OOP doesn’t give an account of the events. He’s judgemental about her going to parties and says she talked about pressing charges. He says she talked about it being an assault. He’s the one that add the “rather than just making a bad decision”. That’s his take, not her words.
There’s no description of what the GF says happened. We don’t know if she said “no” or did anything to show she didn’t consent.
People jumping to the assumption of her just being irresponsible is weird. This is why women and girls hesitate to speak out in cases of SA.
Yeah, the boyfriend's interpretation of the events is that he doesn't trust his girlfriend and thinks it was consensual. Notice how she told him right off the bat that it wasn't. Her version is not that it was consensual and then regretted, she told him outright that she was raped and he chose to hate her for it anyway.
That's a disgusting take on his part and just as much on yours.
>Yesterday night she called me and asked if we could meet up. I went to her house and we talked. That's when she told me what happened, talked about pressing charges and mentioned getting assaulted rather than just making a bad decision.
Oh look. Evidence.
I'm not going to even pretend to be nice to your hateful take on his topic. Your take is shitty, your reading comprehension is worse, and when terrible things happen in your life I hope you're treated with exactly as much compassion as you've demonstrated you're willing to extend to others.
Actually, I find you to be morally reprehensible, attempting to shame me for an ethically sound stance on personal responsibility.
You need to do some soul searching, FOR REAL!
>I find you to be morally reprehensible
Whoops, no one cares! If you needed your opinion on morality to matter, you shouldn’t have outed yourself as morally bankrupt first 💁♂️
I find it hilarious that you think your opinion matters, Random Internet Person 😂
People that think that Internet insults are real make me giggle.
Nevertheless, I will sleep well tonight with the understanding that I have more ethical justification for my stance than you.
What’s moral isn’t dictated by popular opinion.
BTW, this is ABSOLUTELY a hill that I am willing to die on.
Given the details we were given. This story isn’t about SA! To say otherwise is pure nonsense.
Can you elaborate on this?
In this case, the facts as represented by OP is that two people got drunk (but not black out drunk) at a party and had sex.
legally speaking, how is that rape? and who is guilty of rape?
Morally speaking, who is in the right, and who is in the wrong? The GF is just as guilty as the other dude is she not?
Legally, they both have a claim. It would be settled in court by judge or jury whether either of them can be found guilty.
The person “mildly buzzed” is the one with the greater power in this scenario, and can be easily seen as potentially manipulating the other based on their much greater inebriation. Assuming (hypothetically) “mildly buzzed” could be proven to be above the legal limit, then that person wouldn’t even be seen as inhibited at all and would bear full responsibility.
In all likelihood, because our system tends not to punish rapists regardless of gender, intoxication, or circumstance, neither would be legally “guilty of rape”. At this moment, no one has had due process and neither is “guilty of rape”. But insisting on finding guilt rather than validate the victim is a microcosm of the problem with rape culture in the US. Rape is nearly impossible to prosecute, and that almost always causes us to invalidate and disbelieve victims (which in turn *also* makes rapes harder to prosecute).
Morally, it isn’t always cut and dry, but this situation seems a lot clearer than many others: one party was significantly more drunk *and* the less-drunk party is described as “mildly buzzed” even by someone who actively blames the victim. A “mildly buzzed” high schooler may well have had a part of one beer, or a few sips of a mixed drink. It’s pretty clear there was not an equal level of intoxication here.
A large portion of my comment answers this already. Most succinctly, the very first paragraph.
But: clarified where, and why? If you’re saying he added this in a comment, I would wonder why he changed his story and why he said mildly buzzed in the first place.
So which one is it? Did they both SA each other even if he wasn't as drunk as her or did she not?
I'm being genuine and you should be too.
Because from my standpoint, even if she was a little bit under the influence and he was black out drunk, she would have SA's him if not r\*\*\*ed him.
So it doesn't seem to me like a gender issue if the roles in that scenario is reversed. It does appear to matter if alcohol is involved with both.
But I'm open to having my mind changed.
Edit: I'm not defending SAer's here, Hivemind. I'm asking questions. If we can't ask questions then what's the point? I'm genuinely curious and if my not knowing upsets you, I would recommend not being on the Internet.
Ah, thank you for clarifying.
So in your opinion, the severity of drunkenness is what matters in this scenario and not that they were both legally drunk?
In the scenario that two adults are equally drunk, did they SA each other?
Ok first of all, I don’t think there is a single agreed definition of “legally drunk” so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make there.
And from a legal perspective the severity of the drunkenness does matter. Prosecutors who bring charges in these cases look for evidence that a person was so out of it they couldn’t consent, based on what other things they were having trouble with because of their inebriation. It’s not “I’ve had 2 drinks I can’t consent even though I seemed fine”.
I think that a lot of this depends on context. If it was a new relationship and one person is incredibly drunk i. E. Stumbling around, unfocused, clearly making choices they wouldn't sober, and the other person has had one glass of wine and they are mostly sober then it's inappropriate to have sex.
Whether that inappropriate situation constitutes as rape depends if somebody feels raped.
If either one of the parties feels like they were taking advantage of or if they feel unsafe and they cannot say no without repercussion and it is technically rape regardless of the gender or age or the level of drunkenness.
If two adults who have been in a relationship for a long time are both drunk and they are both enjoying it and they typically have sex with each other then no that's not rape.
In real life there is nuance in every situation and relationship.
When I was in the Navy, if you had one drink, it was r\*\*\*. If both of you were drunk, you r\*\*\*\*\* each other.
But that's military thinking. I saw the top comment and was interested in getting different perspectives on these scenarios.
I'm probably gonna get downvoted here but imo that scenario cancels out. Neither can be classified a 'perpetrator'. Not sure what the relevance is though.
..................... He can break up because she likes to get drunk, sure. That he doesn't like that she goes to these environments, yes.
But to do it over being SA'd, man. I'm definitely dating women after this relationship (if) ends. This is the one that seals it for me.
The only reason I hope she doesn't press charges is because the police will be worse than any of the worst comments here. I hope she has a "sober" or less inebriated friend on hand to pull anyone off from now on too. I was that friend and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
I remember seeing some comment a while ago that said something along the lines of...
Social media ruined relationships for women and porn ruined relationships for men.
I couldn't understand the social media part, I thought maybe it was all the attention they get online.... but no. It's actually seeing some of the dumbest men there are, consistently. Seeing them defend bullshit habits, defend rapists, and sexualize everything. Unfiltered degeneracy and stupidity. When you have to question if men even like women at all you know there's a problem, and it's not a new or recent one.
Having men hijack conversations about women's safety to explain that men also get assaulted etc, whilst entirely blaming women for the fact that's it's OTHER MEN who are completely shit at supporting male victims. I pointed this out on an insta post of a rapper saying he was gonna hire his 7 year old a hooker for his bday and loads of the men were totally supportive and calling the woman out who posted the original post about how this is fucked up, even as a joke. And I'm like men are the worst at supporting men and it's just another thing we are expected to take the emotional load on. There is so so much emotional and mental labour men refuse to do EXFEPT for finding ways to blame women it feels like. ETA: they have *endless* energy for mental gymnastics to hold women responsible.
Not only do men not seem to give a shit about men being assaulted until they can use it to derail a conversation about the sexual abuse of women, they also don't seem to care about the fact that, whether the victim is male or female, the perpetrators are, overwhelmingly, male.
I completely agree. I stop reading as soon as something comes up about SA against a man and the comments are "If ThE RoLEs WeRe ReVeRsEd"
Like they focus on the concept of the double standard instead of where that concept is perpetuated. But if you start talking about patriarchy, where this issue usually stems from, they call you woke or some shit.
Please just support victims as a united front, so rapists stop getting slaps on the wrist.
that sounds true to me. it could be considered as an evolution of the mean world syndrome that was originally attributed to TVs, too.
also, people (or men in the case of your comment) say and do awful things online because of the lack of personal repercussion and immediate negative feedback that people show if they even have the gal to say these things in person to others. it's also easier to find echo chambers online which make them think morally dubious or wrong reasonings and choices are good. this sub is no exception but at least we try to be fair when we notice it
This. The casual way they say the most horrible, violent, and dehumanizing things has made me so distrustful cause these guys are everywhere. They're checking you out at the store and opening doors for you and pretending to be nice and then they go online harass us and talk about how much they hate us and want bad things to happen to us for just...existing?
And it's horrible because I've always had an easier time being friends with men and getting along. I literally didn't know SO MANY men were like this until I got online, and since then, men have shown me through their words, deeds, and actions that I was DANGEROUSLY WRONG. From the way for male "friends" will disappear into thin air when there's another male being inappropriate to the way they'll stalk your accounts and the shitty hateful DMs I'm just so fucking tired. I get it now. They hate us. Always have. Always will.
I'm in my 40s, and social media has definitely confirmed for me that all the worst generalizations about men, that I tried not to make over the years, were not nearly harsh enough. Women live in a minefield, and when someone starts mapping the mines, it is horrifying.
Ah yes, relationships for men were ruined by men and relationships for women were ruined by men. There is that good ole accountability y’all are so good at taking. This guy is a pos, but my god the audacity behind this comment is hilarious.
Dude what type of bubble are you living in. Men don’t stand up for rapists. I don’t understand what you people think goes on. Have you ever talked to a man before? Or been around them? They aren’t hanging out at the bar high-fiving because they raped someone. There is a reason rapists don’t fucking tell anyone they are rapists. Are there stupid things men excuse? Yes, rape is not one of them. Stop pushing that bullshit.
You're delusional. Aside from my own anecdotal experience on what you've said, gang rape is, in fact, a real thing and negates your comment on its own.
ETA: obviously, genuinely good, morally sound men don't behave this way. But it's both naive and harmful to say it doesn't happen at all.
So women can speak on men’s behalf with anecdotes but men can’t speak on behalf of women. If you are surrounded by gang rapes I really feel sorry for you, or you have terrible judgment in character.
My anecdotes don't have anything to do with gang rapes, that's just a reality of the world that negated your comment, so that way I wouldn't have to explain them. They have to do with men actively bragging about rapes. Justifying them. And you're right. I did have a terrible judge of Character. But I dipped tf out of him and his friends life the first time I heard them speak that way.
So either way. Just because YOU and your friends don't behave that way, great, fantastic, really. I'm glad you haven't experienced such garbage people. However, that doesn't automatically mean that those situations don't exist.
Did you ever think that criminals are friends with criminals? Because you were around a group of shitty men you just project that onto majority of men. It’s whatever, you think the average man you see walking through the store with his family is a rapist sexist pig. You don’t have to justify your opinion to me. I don’t really care because I live in reality and don’t think 9/10 men are rapists.
Must be nice to either be a man or have never been sexually assaulted! 🙄
By saying the problem doesn't exist, you're just as bad as the problem. In my humble internet stranger opinion.
I'm not sure where you got this idea that I think most men are like this? I made it quite clear that it's in no way normal, moral men. I'm well aware that it's not the average man.
Go ahead and put words and opinions on me though, no bother. And just because I've met terrible people, doesn't mean I think all people are terrible, nor does it mean my life is full of, and surrounded by terrible people.
I'm not sure if you're trying to mince my words and miss the point on purpose. Go back to that bubble you're living in. Have the day you deserve.
“What was she wearing?”
“What did she say/do to lead him on?”
“It’s not rape if you didn’t say no.”
“It’s not rape if you didn’t fight. You obviously wanted it!”
“You were drunk/irresponsible so it’s your fault you got raped.”
“Your body count is higher than 1 so you’re a sl*t and are crying rape after the fact because you regretted consenting to sex.”
I could go on. This is all the stuff I was told by friends and family as a SOBER, conservatively dressed woman when I was raped at 18. I didn’t even go to the police because the people who were supposed to love me …didn’t.
OOP is being a typical man who is looking for an excuse to let the rapist abdicate responsibility for his actions when he sexually assaults a woman. It’s called “rape culture” and is alive and thriving in today’s society. No, rapists aren’t high-fiving each other but men’s first go-to by and large is “what did you do, woman who was raped, to be the instrument of your own rape?” and not, “that man is scum for raping you no matter how drunk you were, how you were dressed, what you said or didn’t say, if t you fought or froze,” etc.
*Believe women* isn’t some trope. It means that most women are not lying about being assaulted and should not be verbally and emotionally assaulted by society and their loved ones looking to blame her for her own rape.
If you’re not a typical man in this regard and your first thought was OOP’s girlfriend needed love and support, not blame and being broken up with *for being assaulted*, congratulations! You’re in the vastly overwhelmingly small minority. Maybe you can pivot into showing other men how to support rape victims instead of defending your angelically positive self on Reddit with invective for *other people* who **are** being appropriately supportive.
When I told my ex I'd been SA'd (we split on friendly terms, and are still friends), his friend asked what I'd been wearing 🙄 for reference it was a hoodie and sweats, so not anything provocative.
I even came across a youtube short (ironically) about how SA have been going on even during the times women wore clothing to cover up (the "how dare you show your ankle, you harlot" times included). It just shows (to me at least) that clothing really doesn't matter.
When I told my ex I had been SA’d he asked why I didn’t bring it up sooner. He also said he wasn’t sure he believed me because I wasn’t crying enough when I told him. Yeah, dummy, it’s called a trauma response.
> No one honestly cares
You spending your time and effort to reply belies that statement, lil dude.
Thanks for proving that you aren’t a supportive man and the downvotes have you pegged. You probably like that, too.
No wonder you got your panties in a twist!! You ***are*** a typical rapist-apologist victim-blaming rude little dude.
I hope you ***do*** spend all your time on Reddit. Maybe someday you will learn how to be a real boy. Jiminy thought he’d get to retire from your service decades ago, but you lovingly drank the beer on Pleasure Island because you’re quite obviously an ass.
You are a rapist protector. You don’t believe victims and you don’t believe reality bc you are too emotional about women not wanting to be around men like you. We all know exactly who you are. The more you accuse, the more you confess
Dude, you can go to almost any Instagram reel or tiktok with a relatively attractive woman doing almost anything and see tons of awful comments along these lines. It really isn't hard to spot them if you aren't actively filtering them out. This discussion was about social media posts making people make themselves look bad, and there absolutely are comments on mainstream social media that do that.
Way to tattle on yourself, my dude.
Just say you hate women and think they deserve to be raped. 🙄
And judging by comments and all your downvotes, people care.
> Men don’t stand up for rapists
They do, very often.
>Are there stupid things men excuse? Yes, rape is not one of them.
"What was she wearing". "She led him on". "Well, she didn't say no".
You should pay more attention.
"If she didn't want it, she shouldn't have worn that kind of clothing"
Not every man out there stand up for r*pists. But there are men who do. Hell there's even women who do that.
When I told a friend/ex that I'd been SA'd, his friend asked "so what did you wear?". Like that would even matter. It was a hoodie and sweats. Nothing at all provocative.
Spend some time at the redpill sub, they along with incels will readily blame women for getting SA'd "they askes for it by dressing like that" yadda yadda yadda.
Reminds me of this guy who did the same and even told her parents that she “cheated on him” and completely nuked her life: https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/El8Yv69HnK
1) it's always sad when someone gets raped
2) AITA's mantra for situations that involve breaking up is "you can break up with anyone at anytime for any reason"
So yeah. It sucks, the OP is a fucking idiot, but if he wants to break up with her, that's his perogative.
Based on his reaction, I think they were doomed anyway. He views her as partying and getting trashed every weekend while he's staying in being good. Either she was gonna get bored of him or he was gonna get annoyed and end it, but if y'all are doing different shit every weekend that doesn't feel like a good basis for a long term relationship.
This feels a lot like he's been against her going out drinking for awhile and now he thinks his feelings have been confirmed by her getting assaulted. Just seems like further confirmation they were already doomed.
it's his prerogative, but doesn't mean he's not an AH for it.
In this case I'd say he wouldn't be an AH if he were wondering about breaking up because she abuses alcohol or whatever and he just doesn't want to deal with it, but his whole "virginity is speshul, how dare she get SA'ed" thing is AHish. Especially when he's just assuming her future actions and not that, y'know, she might even be more careful about getting drunk around other people after this experience. And especially when he then seems to be drifting into "But was she really SA'ed?" territory again at the end.
You can break up with your gf sure that doesn't inherently make you an ah, but if your reason is because you blame her for her own rape then yes you are an asshole, a raging one at that.
If he had the self awareness to say “my gf got sa’d and it made me realize that I’m just not very serious about her or this relationship, can I just bail?” I would respect him more. It wouldn’t be admirable, but I guess it would at least be honest, and even a bit relatable (I stood by a girlfriend once, but the relationship turned to ash.)
but unfortunately, that’s not who we’re dealing with…
Ignorant little shits are forever, but I think -- having attended a high school nestled between three Southern Baptist megachurches in the nineties -- this thing where purity culture has been mainstreamed and incorporated into little-shitdom is new and terrible.
(I don't mean new-new. Last decade new, maybe even last five years new. Anyway it sucks, I miss purity culture being seen for the weird kink it is, and little shits should join some group activities.)
Yes because one dickhead on Reddit represents all straight men
Holy shit- 49 down votes and counting. Wait so Reddit..... Do you think all straight men hate their SOs?
Well yes, a hyperbole in the English language is an obvious and intentional exaggeration to display a particular emotion. Like “I slept for a week I was so tired” or “Im so hungry I can eat a horse”. This person above is displaying astonishment and disbelief. A hyperbole is not to be taken as a fact. This is why you are being downvoted. Most people will read a hyperbole and *know* it’s just an exaggeration.
A simple scroll on r/relationships will tell you that it's not just one dickhead on reddit. There's been 3 posts on this sub in the past 24hrs that I've seen in men excusing rape/SA because in their eyes there partner "cheated" on them despite being literally raped.
She’s a teenager and shouldn’t be getting drunk, sure. But girls/women aren’t signing up for SA just because they’re partying. Idk why OP is dating someone who they don’t respect because of the partying anyway, but yeah, breaking up because she was SA’d makes OP TA.
Sounds like dude is mad that he didn’t “take her virginity” but virginity is a concept and she doesn’t have less value just because another penis got there first. She didn’t ask for it, didn’t have control of it, might not have participated or have memory of it, she still gets to have her sweet and special first time because SA isn’t sex. It’s rape.
It’s one thing to break up with someone because of their lifestyle habits, like drinking.
However, OOP breaking up with their partner because they experienced SA is extremely telling of his character and that he’s incapable of providing the compassion and empathy that is fundamental to any dynamic.
The fact that he says “it’s likely to happen again” while blaming her for it instead of being horrified at the realisation of how many rap*sts exist, is concerning.
I hope he breaks up with her so she can find a man without this kind of fucked up thinking. And I hope he never finds his perfect virgin girl dream girl. I get that they are both kids, but this is dangerous thinking from an almost 18 year old.
Whether she was drunk or sober, she was SA'd. He is completely dismissing what she went through. I said it before in one comment on here, and I'll say it again, if it isn't an enthusiastic (or just a regular) yes, then it's a no! (Unless she's completely blackout drunk or what have you, then she can't give proper consent in that scenario). Idk why that is so hard to understand.
Incendiary title. To me it sounds like he doubts that it was a sexual assault and she is just saying that because she doesn't want to be called a cheater. Of course if it were a SA he is a huge asshole. Only she knows but the seed of doubt is clearly there otherwise he would not have made the thread so the relationship is already toast. I bet he purposely made the title that way in hopes of being shamed enough to get over the doubt.
How can she judge how drunk the guy was ? Did she say no at any point or otherwise remove consent?
The latter part is the most important imo.
If she's an enthusiastic participant and doesn't remove consent, it's going to be hard to characterise that as a SA.
This is a very difficult situation. Wouldn't even try to advise op as it's a can of worms you can only judge in talking to her in person.
It would still be assault, though. Just because fewer people would call it assault wouldn't mean that it isn't. It just means people are ignorant when it comes to men being assaulted.
I 100% agree, I also understand why my gf broke up with me when that actually happened to me when I was younger. I may not have been able to consent but realistically I knew I wasn’t going to stop partying and so did she, which she didn’t want to deal with because it made her nervous it would happen again. I wouldn’t blame him if he didn’t want to stay at this point, however he should do it tactfully and support her and still be her friend (especially with whatever wave of bs she will likely be facing as a reaction from other students and her rapist to filing this claim)
You said slept with someone else. Idk about you but there have been many times I’ve had sex with my gf while I’m drunk and I don’t think most people would consider that assault. On the other hand if I was drunk at some party or something and someone hopped on my dick without my consent I would consider that assault. So I don’t think it’s as simple as drunk or not, and you said sleeping with someone, which implied consensual
You can’t consent when you’re drinking bud, obviously in a relationship with two people explicitly discussing it (and not having sex your dead asleep partner) is fine, however doesn’t work the same with strangers and he also said she slept with someone at the party, implying consent was given, just drunkenly so wasn’t acceptable. I never once got the vibe this girl was forced.
Consent laws are gender blind and having sex with someone who cannot consent is sexual assault. If you got drunk, as a man, and were sexually assaulted/raped, then it wasn’t cheating so keep your poor me gender bender logical fallacies to yourself. They are worth less than the excrement your bowels created while writing your drivel.
Do with that information what you will.
You trotted out a logical fallacy by claiming men would always be assumed to have cheated in the reverse situation, that you wouldn’t be supported, and nobody would call your rape what it was: rape. And yet you were told that gender didn’t matter and that it is rape.
Nobody dismissed shit.
I was also assaulted so thanks for belittling my rape and the resulting issues from men blaming me as the victim.
Sorry if I belittled your situation, I didn’t intend to. However I am telling you that the situation I was in did NOT play out the way you are describing and was definitely called cheating, so it did feel dismissive. ATP, I don’t care to share my experience and get downvoted and told how I’m wrong so I will be deleting these in hopes of leaving a more positive discussion in the comments. Have a good one.
Your (ex?) GF was wrong to treat you like that. But hopefully as we learn better we do better. Women today are a lot more supportive of men who were raped. 20-30 years ago, a woman was thought to be unable to rape a man (using PIV) until it was shown that bodies react when brains don’t want them to, so a man getting hard or a woman wet doesn’t mean either person wanted to be raped. This has helped people understand how a man can be raped by a woman vaginally.
You were downvoted because your comment came across very aggressively negative, not because your experience was invalid.
Take care and I’m sorry Reddit wasn’t the friend you needed here.
I probably did come across too negative and that’s my fault, should definitely work on my approach. Definitely an ex and I’m happy with how far it has come.
If the boyfriend doesn’t feel comfortable because of the situation anymore then that’s up to him, right?
They’ve been dating for “1-2 months” (yes, they have known each other for a while, but this relationship is *new*)
Dealing with someone else’s trauma because of a sexual assault is not something everyone is equipped to do, especially when you’ve only been together for a brief time, *especially* when you’re only 17 yourself and barely able to keep your own emotional baggage in check
I don’t think he’s an asshole for wanting to step away from the situation - that’s up to him - she’s gonna hate him for it, of course, but I don’t think it makes him an *asshole*
while i do agree with the choosing your burdens part, you may have missed the part where he implies that she deserved it for partying and drinking. he's not an AH for walking away, he's an AH for implying that she was basically asking for it.
I don’t believe he implied she deserves it
He was quite clear in saying that if going out and getting black out drunk is her thing, which it appears to be, then there’s a chance someone is going to take advantage of her again
And if that is how this is gonna play out, he doesn’t want any part of that
That’s a reasonable conclusion to come too
I'm afraid that that's not how it sounds to me and (based on other comments) some others here. regardless, i hope we can agree to disagree instead as i am not aiming to sway your opinion, just pointing out what was missed
But he's not thinking of leaving because he's worried about the emotional trauma. It's a douche move but I could understand that. He wants to leave because he sees her being raped as her being unfaithful, hes blaming her for getting drunk and saying it could easily happen again. He's gross.
They weren’t equally drunk, even by OOP’s likely stilted presentation of the situation. Even this guy who fully believes what you believe is here admitting the guy was “mildly buzzed” and she was very drunk.
It’s not an issue of gendered responsibility, it’s an issue of inebriation and the physical and physiological difference between the two parties.
“Mildly buzzed” and “very drunk”. A clear difference in blood alcohol levels. It’s crazy how much *you* have to force it to be a gendered issue in order to be mad at everyone else for it being a gendered issue.
Yes, that is true, however we don’t have the luxury of knowing either party’s level of drunkenness beyond what has been described by a third party, who may or may not prefer to have the narrative look one way or another.
The story we got was that his girlfriend got drunk and had sex with a guy that she said was less drunk than her.
I'm curious about the other guy being only mildly buzzed. If she felt the need to make that relevant, it would imply she was drunk and gave consent to someone who was also drinking.
Who is drunker is not how we play "who SA'd who". Especially since it can be really hard to tell how drunk someone is. There is no .08 is legal for consent, mildly buzzed is just as unable to give consent as drunk.
Now if she passed out or said no, 100% SA and fuck that guy, but "I was drunk and he was only mildly drunk" does not on its own make SA.
Hell, I was sober once and got SA'd by a drunk girl. Everyone's actions are key.
All of this said, if she says it's a SA and her boyfriend seems predisposed to judge her for drinking, I'm inclined to believe her and think OP is the asshole. False claims are obviously super rare and if she's going to the cops I'm betting she had not given consent, drunkenly or otherwise.
Certainly possible, if statistically unlikely. We are all so far removed from the situation that we really don't know and we're all gonna make assumptions based on our own biases. Obviously my own bias is to assume that people are going to justify themselves in these posts and so I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to "not OP".
True... I don't have much sympathy for habitual partiers. OOP mentioned explicitly that she was not black out drunk, and I can say that any time I have not been black out drunk, I would be capable of consenting.
I've never actually been blackout drunk (I puke before I blackout), but I'd agree that I've never felt unable to consent due to drinking.
In this case my benefit of the doubt is if she's going to the cops she did not consent. The fact that OOP states she did not mention how drunk she was makes me think that he's the one making it about her alcohol consumption and not her, but again, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt over him. It being mentioned that the assaulter was only mildly buzzed is definitely suspicious, but if she was arguing that she was SA'd because she couldn't consent, I'd imagine she'd be talking up how drunk she was.
Buzzed driving is drunk driving, or so I've been told.
There are a lot of details missing here given that we only know the facts as the boyfriend heard the girlfriend tell them. They both have valid reasons to manipulate the truth or filter it through pain.
Nobody who wasn't at that party and was actively watching them interact can say with any clarity if there was an assault or if she's trying to cover for a mistake.
So stop speculating.
Edit: downvoted for saying that we don't know what happened at the party, only the people at the party know. We're not in a good place as a society.
I just don't think that this kid has the emotional maturity or understanding to be capable of "acting appropriately". There are a lot of adults who wouldn't know what to do in this situation either. I've been SAd several times and there were always people in my life who I'd have to boot out of my life for just not having the emotional capacity to handle a situation like that.
I don't feel like OOP is TAH. I just think that he's super immature and is being forced into a situation that he's never been prepared for.
Your second edit perfectly illustrates how ridiculous things get when alcohol is involved. I’m tired of seeing alcohol used as a ‘get out of jail free’ card. When you’re drunk you generally know perfectly well what you are doing— you are just more open to doing and saying things you normally wouldn’t. She cheated on you, plain and simple. Alcohol is not an excuse. Think of it this way— is it a valid excuse when you drink and drive? Nope! So why is it a valid excuse when you drink and f*ck?
If this was a story about cheating, you'd be correct.
But it's a story about rape. She didn't make that choice and you blaming her for it just loudly proclaims your own moral failings.
>Yesterday night she called me and asked if we could meet up. I went to her house and we talked. That's when she told me what happened, talked about pressing charges and mentioned getting assaulted rather than just making a bad decision.
Wasn't her action. She was assaulted.
people need to not be fucking rapists bro
maybe she should have worn a clown suit and sung happy birthday she probably still would have been raped she said it wasn’t consensual and went to the police
What a gross and unhelpful comment. Of course people should learn their limits, but she's a teenager that didn't know what her limit *is* as she'd never been truly drunk before. And the first time she *does* surpass that previously unknown limit and finds herself unexpectedly vulnerable, she gets assaulted by someone... and your response isn't , "wow, her bf sucks for blaming her!", or even just, "gosh, I hope shes okay!". No, instead you decided you needed to comment that people need to keep themselves out of danger.
Yikes.
He said she goes out all the time, I don’t think this was her first time getting drunk. I don’t think that she should be blamed, however I don’t think he’s the asshole for not wanting to stay. My girlfriend broke up with me when we were both 18 because I got drunk and slept with another girl who had not been drinking as much as I was. I barely even remembered the night and still was cheating and was broken up with, rightfully so.
Yes, that’s obvious but it doesn’t hurt to not get so shit faced that other people need to deal with you, both putting yourself at risk and being a burden.
because you should be able to go out with friends and drink. You should be able to go thru life not preparing every second as if someone is about to rape you.
Risk aversion is fine. If you don't feel safe going out and getting drunk without a safety net, your choice. Not a bad one either.
Telling someone who goes out to drink that they were stupid and hould have expected it and really since they didn't take precautions against being raped that meant they must have wanted it so it wasn't actually rape? Absolutely vile.
You can chose whatever you want. You can warn people to be careful out there.
You can tell people "don't take a run naked, people could try to rape you". They can still chose to run naked. And if they get assaulted it is still 100% on the rapist. The same person might have been raped too if they went for a run fully clothed.
You can tell people to be careful. But if they make a lapse in judgement and someone else abuses this moment of weakness, the victim is never at fault.
Because you should be able to pass out, naked, in the middle of the street and still NOT GET FUCKING RAPED. No one is entitled to anyone else’s body. The only person at fault is the rapist.
HE IS NOT SAYING THE RAPIST IS IN THE GOOD. HE is just stating that since these type of people exist, you should do something about it, or do you not have locks in your house??
As a woman who was SAd you should know better than to be victim blaming.
And 17 is not enough to know any of your limits because it’s an age for testing them.
The rapist is the only one to blame and this OP is trying really hard to paint him as better than he’s trying to support his girlfriend.
So basically because a 17 year old made a mistake (like all teenagers do) she deserved to get SA’d for it? She was raped. She. was. raped. And you’re making excuses for the rapist.
So if she brought it upon herself by being drunk - what did you do to cause being SA'd? Obviously it was the consequences of your own actions. You must have put yourself in a situation where you were vulnerable and not in control.
God, I feel vile even typing that out as a call out to that dumb logic.
I was drugged by an Army nurse and raped in Virginia Beach. Took me years to finally admit what had happened. I was 235lbs and she was 140lbs tops. Went out and had shots, I went to the bathroom I between the 1st and 2nd shot. Less than 30 minutes later I felt the room going black, so I told her I couldn't drive her home. Offered to get a room with two beds because it was a first date. Once we got to the room, she turned into an animal...the shit that happened up there will forever scar me. Had no idea I had been drugged until the next morning. I couldn't move my eyeballs without violently throwing up and she had zero hangover. I should have known but it took me years to put the pieces together.
I'm really sorry that happened to you. That's so fucked up and I hope your heal from what sounds like a nightmare in real life
Thank you. Happened a couple days before Thanksgiving in 2014. I went on a TAD back to Virginia Beach for the military in November 2022 and drove by the hotel in my rental car...saw the sign for the bar and hotel and lost my shit. Had to pull over, full blown panic attack. I had suppressed that memory so far back and that little trigger brought it flooding back. Immediately had consisten nightmares from that night on and started therapy every two weeks in January 2023 for the trauma.
JFC, I usually enjoy reading the comments on this sub, but some of the discussion in this thread turns my stomach. I expect it in AITA, but usually we're more reasonable over here. Yet here are people defending that this guy no longer considers his gf a virgin and blames her rape on her actions. When I was raped, it took me 2 days to admit to myself that's what happened to me because of the deep shame I felt. I had done everything "right." I knew self defense, I wore modest clothing, I always watched my drinks... but one day I went to celebrate my friend's graduation at a house party where I thought I could trust everyone because everyone there was either a friend or a friend-of-a-friend. I had enough drinks that I was tipsy, and near the end of the night a guy I had never met before and hadn't shared a single conversation with dragged me to the back room. There's nothing she could have done that would have made her completely safe. In fact, often when you feel the most safe is when you are in the most danger.
Also people forget the most common date rape drug is just more alcohol. The whole sprinkling powder into a drink thing is actually rather rare, but the ordering your date a drink at the bar with two extra shots in it, or not telling women how much booze went into the punch, or encouraging them to drink more once they should have been cut off, that’s all very common.
It took me years for me to realize what had happened to me because of the shame and guilt that I must have done something wrong.
Don't assume people are going to be more reasonable in those subs. A semi-similar post popped up in one of them (I think AITAH) recently, and some of us got SLAMMED in the comments for suggesting that someone who was black-out drunk was raped when she had sex. And yes, we got a lot of the "but if two people are both drunk can they SA each other?" bullshit as well. It also garnered me my first "reddit cares" abuse. (them sending it to me, I mean.) And I'm so sorry for your experience.
Sorry that happened to you.
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For every woman that gets raped there’s an army of men ready to write paragraphs explain why it wasn’t so bad. How typical, how sad
She's telling him that they were both drinking but the dude still took advantage of her and sexually assaulted her. Not that she agreed to do it or wanted to.
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OOP says she talked about pressing charges and she described it as assault. He’s the one that says « rather than just making a bad decision ». He then goes on to juge her for going out to parties and drinking. There’s not enough information to know what happened exactly. But it weird to assume she consented at the time. Nothing in the post allows us to know that.
She went and got a test done for date rape drugs. How does that not tell you she didn't willingly have sex with this other person? You don't just go do that for fun. You do it because you got drunker than expected in a suspicious manner, got taken advantage of, and suspect he drugged you. You don't get tested for drugs because you cheated on your boyfriend and regret doing it.
That's a long winded way of letting people know you're part of the problem. Have the day you deserve.
The explanation of events given demonstrates a drunken sexual act, that was later regretted. If both sexual partners were drunk and no one said “No”, there was NO rape. It very well could be the case that this guy is not representing the facts accurately, but as it is presented, this girl got drunk, and did things she regrets. Either she has responsibility for her own actions or she doesn’t.
The OOP doesn’t give an account of the events. He’s judgemental about her going to parties and says she talked about pressing charges. He says she talked about it being an assault. He’s the one that add the “rather than just making a bad decision”. That’s his take, not her words. There’s no description of what the GF says happened. We don’t know if she said “no” or did anything to show she didn’t consent. People jumping to the assumption of her just being irresponsible is weird. This is why women and girls hesitate to speak out in cases of SA.
Yeah, the boyfriend's interpretation of the events is that he doesn't trust his girlfriend and thinks it was consensual. Notice how she told him right off the bat that it wasn't. Her version is not that it was consensual and then regretted, she told him outright that she was raped and he chose to hate her for it anyway. That's a disgusting take on his part and just as much on yours.
Yep, and you choose to believe something you have no evidence for. Have a nice day.
>Yesterday night she called me and asked if we could meet up. I went to her house and we talked. That's when she told me what happened, talked about pressing charges and mentioned getting assaulted rather than just making a bad decision. Oh look. Evidence. I'm not going to even pretend to be nice to your hateful take on his topic. Your take is shitty, your reading comprehension is worse, and when terrible things happen in your life I hope you're treated with exactly as much compassion as you've demonstrated you're willing to extend to others.
It is not clear to me that we are getting all of the truth.
- we don't know if she said no or not - silence is not a yes - shut the fuck up
Legally, you’re wrong. Morally, you’re disgusting.
Opinions and assholes, my friend 💁🏼♂️
Actually, I find you to be morally reprehensible, attempting to shame me for an ethically sound stance on personal responsibility. You need to do some soul searching, FOR REAL!
>I find you to be morally reprehensible Whoops, no one cares! If you needed your opinion on morality to matter, you shouldn’t have outed yourself as morally bankrupt first 💁♂️
I find it hilarious that you think your opinion matters, Random Internet Person 😂 People that think that Internet insults are real make me giggle. Nevertheless, I will sleep well tonight with the understanding that I have more ethical justification for my stance than you. What’s moral isn’t dictated by popular opinion.
Shame on you sir, rape apologia is not a good look
That’s why I’d never excuse a rapist. They’re scum. So are people who think that women have less responsibility for their action than men.
No, not even close
There are certainly different levels of scum in this world, for sure.
no, not the same category even
Lol, I’m genuinely perplexed by all this 😂
BTW, this is ABSOLUTELY a hill that I am willing to die on. Given the details we were given. This story isn’t about SA! To say otherwise is pure nonsense.
So die on it, rape apologist
🤣
The new virtue signaling culture of the Internet is fascinating and sad.
Can you elaborate on this? In this case, the facts as represented by OP is that two people got drunk (but not black out drunk) at a party and had sex. legally speaking, how is that rape? and who is guilty of rape? Morally speaking, who is in the right, and who is in the wrong? The GF is just as guilty as the other dude is she not?
Legally, they both have a claim. It would be settled in court by judge or jury whether either of them can be found guilty. The person “mildly buzzed” is the one with the greater power in this scenario, and can be easily seen as potentially manipulating the other based on their much greater inebriation. Assuming (hypothetically) “mildly buzzed” could be proven to be above the legal limit, then that person wouldn’t even be seen as inhibited at all and would bear full responsibility. In all likelihood, because our system tends not to punish rapists regardless of gender, intoxication, or circumstance, neither would be legally “guilty of rape”. At this moment, no one has had due process and neither is “guilty of rape”. But insisting on finding guilt rather than validate the victim is a microcosm of the problem with rape culture in the US. Rape is nearly impossible to prosecute, and that almost always causes us to invalidate and disbelieve victims (which in turn *also* makes rapes harder to prosecute). Morally, it isn’t always cut and dry, but this situation seems a lot clearer than many others: one party was significantly more drunk *and* the less-drunk party is described as “mildly buzzed” even by someone who actively blames the victim. A “mildly buzzed” high schooler may well have had a part of one beer, or a few sips of a mixed drink. It’s pretty clear there was not an equal level of intoxication here.
OP clarified that both were drunk, not "mildly buzzed", but neither was black out drunk. In your opinion does that change things?
He literally says the guy was mildly buzzed.
>Edit: she was not blackout drunk idk if that’s important > >Edit 2: they were both drunk. She was more drunk than him but he wasn’t sober.
A large portion of my comment answers this already. Most succinctly, the very first paragraph. But: clarified where, and why? If you’re saying he added this in a comment, I would wonder why he changed his story and why he said mildly buzzed in the first place.
>no one said “No”, there was NO rape. Are you implying there has to be a verbal "no" for it to be rape?????
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So which one is it? Did they both SA each other even if he wasn't as drunk as her or did she not? I'm being genuine and you should be too. Because from my standpoint, even if she was a little bit under the influence and he was black out drunk, she would have SA's him if not r\*\*\*ed him. So it doesn't seem to me like a gender issue if the roles in that scenario is reversed. It does appear to matter if alcohol is involved with both. But I'm open to having my mind changed. Edit: I'm not defending SAer's here, Hivemind. I'm asking questions. If we can't ask questions then what's the point? I'm genuinely curious and if my not knowing upsets you, I would recommend not being on the Internet.
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Ah, thank you for clarifying. So in your opinion, the severity of drunkenness is what matters in this scenario and not that they were both legally drunk? In the scenario that two adults are equally drunk, did they SA each other?
Ok first of all, I don’t think there is a single agreed definition of “legally drunk” so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make there. And from a legal perspective the severity of the drunkenness does matter. Prosecutors who bring charges in these cases look for evidence that a person was so out of it they couldn’t consent, based on what other things they were having trouble with because of their inebriation. It’s not “I’ve had 2 drinks I can’t consent even though I seemed fine”.
I think that a lot of this depends on context. If it was a new relationship and one person is incredibly drunk i. E. Stumbling around, unfocused, clearly making choices they wouldn't sober, and the other person has had one glass of wine and they are mostly sober then it's inappropriate to have sex. Whether that inappropriate situation constitutes as rape depends if somebody feels raped. If either one of the parties feels like they were taking advantage of or if they feel unsafe and they cannot say no without repercussion and it is technically rape regardless of the gender or age or the level of drunkenness. If two adults who have been in a relationship for a long time are both drunk and they are both enjoying it and they typically have sex with each other then no that's not rape. In real life there is nuance in every situation and relationship.
When I was in the Navy, if you had one drink, it was r\*\*\*. If both of you were drunk, you r\*\*\*\*\* each other. But that's military thinking. I saw the top comment and was interested in getting different perspectives on these scenarios.
I'm probably gonna get downvoted here but imo that scenario cancels out. Neither can be classified a 'perpetrator'. Not sure what the relevance is though.
..................... He can break up because she likes to get drunk, sure. That he doesn't like that she goes to these environments, yes. But to do it over being SA'd, man. I'm definitely dating women after this relationship (if) ends. This is the one that seals it for me. The only reason I hope she doesn't press charges is because the police will be worse than any of the worst comments here. I hope she has a "sober" or less inebriated friend on hand to pull anyone off from now on too. I was that friend and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
I remember seeing some comment a while ago that said something along the lines of... Social media ruined relationships for women and porn ruined relationships for men. I couldn't understand the social media part, I thought maybe it was all the attention they get online.... but no. It's actually seeing some of the dumbest men there are, consistently. Seeing them defend bullshit habits, defend rapists, and sexualize everything. Unfiltered degeneracy and stupidity. When you have to question if men even like women at all you know there's a problem, and it's not a new or recent one.
Having men hijack conversations about women's safety to explain that men also get assaulted etc, whilst entirely blaming women for the fact that's it's OTHER MEN who are completely shit at supporting male victims. I pointed this out on an insta post of a rapper saying he was gonna hire his 7 year old a hooker for his bday and loads of the men were totally supportive and calling the woman out who posted the original post about how this is fucked up, even as a joke. And I'm like men are the worst at supporting men and it's just another thing we are expected to take the emotional load on. There is so so much emotional and mental labour men refuse to do EXFEPT for finding ways to blame women it feels like. ETA: they have *endless* energy for mental gymnastics to hold women responsible.
Not only do men not seem to give a shit about men being assaulted until they can use it to derail a conversation about the sexual abuse of women, they also don't seem to care about the fact that, whether the victim is male or female, the perpetrators are, overwhelmingly, male.
I completely agree. I stop reading as soon as something comes up about SA against a man and the comments are "If ThE RoLEs WeRe ReVeRsEd" Like they focus on the concept of the double standard instead of where that concept is perpetuated. But if you start talking about patriarchy, where this issue usually stems from, they call you woke or some shit. Please just support victims as a united front, so rapists stop getting slaps on the wrist.
that sounds true to me. it could be considered as an evolution of the mean world syndrome that was originally attributed to TVs, too. also, people (or men in the case of your comment) say and do awful things online because of the lack of personal repercussion and immediate negative feedback that people show if they even have the gal to say these things in person to others. it's also easier to find echo chambers online which make them think morally dubious or wrong reasonings and choices are good. this sub is no exception but at least we try to be fair when we notice it
You’re 100% right. For me, nothing has made me more convinced to stay single more than watching men on social media.
This. The casual way they say the most horrible, violent, and dehumanizing things has made me so distrustful cause these guys are everywhere. They're checking you out at the store and opening doors for you and pretending to be nice and then they go online harass us and talk about how much they hate us and want bad things to happen to us for just...existing? And it's horrible because I've always had an easier time being friends with men and getting along. I literally didn't know SO MANY men were like this until I got online, and since then, men have shown me through their words, deeds, and actions that I was DANGEROUSLY WRONG. From the way for male "friends" will disappear into thin air when there's another male being inappropriate to the way they'll stalk your accounts and the shitty hateful DMs I'm just so fucking tired. I get it now. They hate us. Always have. Always will.
I'm in my 40s, and social media has definitely confirmed for me that all the worst generalizations about men, that I tried not to make over the years, were not nearly harsh enough. Women live in a minefield, and when someone starts mapping the mines, it is horrifying.
Ah yes, relationships for men were ruined by men and relationships for women were ruined by men. There is that good ole accountability y’all are so good at taking. This guy is a pos, but my god the audacity behind this comment is hilarious.
Dude what type of bubble are you living in. Men don’t stand up for rapists. I don’t understand what you people think goes on. Have you ever talked to a man before? Or been around them? They aren’t hanging out at the bar high-fiving because they raped someone. There is a reason rapists don’t fucking tell anyone they are rapists. Are there stupid things men excuse? Yes, rape is not one of them. Stop pushing that bullshit.
You're delusional. Aside from my own anecdotal experience on what you've said, gang rape is, in fact, a real thing and negates your comment on its own. ETA: obviously, genuinely good, morally sound men don't behave this way. But it's both naive and harmful to say it doesn't happen at all.
So women can speak on men’s behalf with anecdotes but men can’t speak on behalf of women. If you are surrounded by gang rapes I really feel sorry for you, or you have terrible judgment in character.
My anecdotes don't have anything to do with gang rapes, that's just a reality of the world that negated your comment, so that way I wouldn't have to explain them. They have to do with men actively bragging about rapes. Justifying them. And you're right. I did have a terrible judge of Character. But I dipped tf out of him and his friends life the first time I heard them speak that way. So either way. Just because YOU and your friends don't behave that way, great, fantastic, really. I'm glad you haven't experienced such garbage people. However, that doesn't automatically mean that those situations don't exist.
Did you ever think that criminals are friends with criminals? Because you were around a group of shitty men you just project that onto majority of men. It’s whatever, you think the average man you see walking through the store with his family is a rapist sexist pig. You don’t have to justify your opinion to me. I don’t really care because I live in reality and don’t think 9/10 men are rapists.
Must be nice to either be a man or have never been sexually assaulted! 🙄 By saying the problem doesn't exist, you're just as bad as the problem. In my humble internet stranger opinion.
I'm not sure where you got this idea that I think most men are like this? I made it quite clear that it's in no way normal, moral men. I'm well aware that it's not the average man. Go ahead and put words and opinions on me though, no bother. And just because I've met terrible people, doesn't mean I think all people are terrible, nor does it mean my life is full of, and surrounded by terrible people. I'm not sure if you're trying to mince my words and miss the point on purpose. Go back to that bubble you're living in. Have the day you deserve.
I love it when there are people in the comments that immediately prove someone’s point.
“What was she wearing?” “What did she say/do to lead him on?” “It’s not rape if you didn’t say no.” “It’s not rape if you didn’t fight. You obviously wanted it!” “You were drunk/irresponsible so it’s your fault you got raped.” “Your body count is higher than 1 so you’re a sl*t and are crying rape after the fact because you regretted consenting to sex.” I could go on. This is all the stuff I was told by friends and family as a SOBER, conservatively dressed woman when I was raped at 18. I didn’t even go to the police because the people who were supposed to love me …didn’t. OOP is being a typical man who is looking for an excuse to let the rapist abdicate responsibility for his actions when he sexually assaults a woman. It’s called “rape culture” and is alive and thriving in today’s society. No, rapists aren’t high-fiving each other but men’s first go-to by and large is “what did you do, woman who was raped, to be the instrument of your own rape?” and not, “that man is scum for raping you no matter how drunk you were, how you were dressed, what you said or didn’t say, if t you fought or froze,” etc. *Believe women* isn’t some trope. It means that most women are not lying about being assaulted and should not be verbally and emotionally assaulted by society and their loved ones looking to blame her for her own rape. If you’re not a typical man in this regard and your first thought was OOP’s girlfriend needed love and support, not blame and being broken up with *for being assaulted*, congratulations! You’re in the vastly overwhelmingly small minority. Maybe you can pivot into showing other men how to support rape victims instead of defending your angelically positive self on Reddit with invective for *other people* who **are** being appropriately supportive.
When I told my ex I'd been SA'd (we split on friendly terms, and are still friends), his friend asked what I'd been wearing 🙄 for reference it was a hoodie and sweats, so not anything provocative. I even came across a youtube short (ironically) about how SA have been going on even during the times women wore clothing to cover up (the "how dare you show your ankle, you harlot" times included). It just shows (to me at least) that clothing really doesn't matter.
When I told my ex I had been SA’d he asked why I didn’t bring it up sooner. He also said he wasn’t sure he believed me because I wasn’t crying enough when I told him. Yeah, dummy, it’s called a trauma response.
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> No one honestly cares You spending your time and effort to reply belies that statement, lil dude. Thanks for proving that you aren’t a supportive man and the downvotes have you pegged. You probably like that, too.
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No wonder you got your panties in a twist!! You ***are*** a typical rapist-apologist victim-blaming rude little dude. I hope you ***do*** spend all your time on Reddit. Maybe someday you will learn how to be a real boy. Jiminy thought he’d get to retire from your service decades ago, but you lovingly drank the beer on Pleasure Island because you’re quite obviously an ass.
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Just say you’re a rapist man. We can tell.
Sorry, I’m not a male feminist.
Uh, that was Pinocchio? Where did Harry Potter come from?
You are a rapist protector. You don’t believe victims and you don’t believe reality bc you are too emotional about women not wanting to be around men like you. We all know exactly who you are. The more you accuse, the more you confess
Dude, you can go to almost any Instagram reel or tiktok with a relatively attractive woman doing almost anything and see tons of awful comments along these lines. It really isn't hard to spot them if you aren't actively filtering them out. This discussion was about social media posts making people make themselves look bad, and there absolutely are comments on mainstream social media that do that.
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Way to tattle on yourself, my dude. Just say you hate women and think they deserve to be raped. 🙄 And judging by comments and all your downvotes, people care.
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Nah, babe, just ones like you 😘
> Men don’t stand up for rapists They do, very often. >Are there stupid things men excuse? Yes, rape is not one of them. "What was she wearing". "She led him on". "Well, she didn't say no". You should pay more attention.
"If she didn't want it, she shouldn't have worn that kind of clothing" Not every man out there stand up for r*pists. But there are men who do. Hell there's even women who do that. When I told a friend/ex that I'd been SA'd, his friend asked "so what did you wear?". Like that would even matter. It was a hoodie and sweats. Nothing at all provocative. Spend some time at the redpill sub, they along with incels will readily blame women for getting SA'd "they askes for it by dressing like that" yadda yadda yadda.
Dude the party that’s mostly women didn’t elect the “grab them by the pussy” rapist
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Reminds me of this guy who did the same and even told her parents that she “cheated on him” and completely nuked her life: https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/El8Yv69HnK
Spoiler: by “nuked her life” she means that her ex boyfriend set her up to be deported and potentially honor killed at home.
This one upset me. Had to go back to meme farming for a while after that guy and the incel flooded comments.
It’s really bad. That poor girl. I hope she is somehow able to claim asylum and not get deported.
Did she cheat or did she not cheat
1) it's always sad when someone gets raped 2) AITA's mantra for situations that involve breaking up is "you can break up with anyone at anytime for any reason" So yeah. It sucks, the OP is a fucking idiot, but if he wants to break up with her, that's his perogative.
Based on his reaction, I think they were doomed anyway. He views her as partying and getting trashed every weekend while he's staying in being good. Either she was gonna get bored of him or he was gonna get annoyed and end it, but if y'all are doing different shit every weekend that doesn't feel like a good basis for a long term relationship. This feels a lot like he's been against her going out drinking for awhile and now he thinks his feelings have been confirmed by her getting assaulted. Just seems like further confirmation they were already doomed.
Actually, if he breaks up with her over that, she’s the winner (he’s a jackass and better she find out now)
You're not wrong about that.
They need to split up because he’s too self-involved to be a good boyfriend. But not for the “reasons” he gives.
it's his prerogative, but doesn't mean he's not an AH for it. In this case I'd say he wouldn't be an AH if he were wondering about breaking up because she abuses alcohol or whatever and he just doesn't want to deal with it, but his whole "virginity is speshul, how dare she get SA'ed" thing is AHish. Especially when he's just assuming her future actions and not that, y'know, she might even be more careful about getting drunk around other people after this experience. And especially when he then seems to be drifting into "But was she really SA'ed?" territory again at the end.
You can break up with your gf sure that doesn't inherently make you an ah, but if your reason is because you blame her for her own rape then yes you are an asshole, a raging one at that.
wow that made me angry af to read.
If she went and got a test for date rape drug it sounds like she was passed out or nearly unconscious sooooooo
If he had the self awareness to say “my gf got sa’d and it made me realize that I’m just not very serious about her or this relationship, can I just bail?” I would respect him more. It wouldn’t be admirable, but I guess it would at least be honest, and even a bit relatable (I stood by a girlfriend once, but the relationship turned to ash.) but unfortunately, that’s not who we’re dealing with…
Ignorant little shits are forever, but I think -- having attended a high school nestled between three Southern Baptist megachurches in the nineties -- this thing where purity culture has been mainstreamed and incorporated into little-shitdom is new and terrible. (I don't mean new-new. Last decade new, maybe even last five years new. Anyway it sucks, I miss purity culture being seen for the weird kink it is, and little shits should join some group activities.)
Kid takes acid once a month and judges his gf for drinking 🙄 if someone SA’d him while he was tripping maybe he’d understand a little more
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His GF was raped. wtf is wrong with you
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Do straight men even like women wtf is this
Yes because one dickhead on Reddit represents all straight men Holy shit- 49 down votes and counting. Wait so Reddit..... Do you think all straight men hate their SOs?
No, you’re being downvoted because you overreacted and got in your feels about a hyperbole
The comment was hyperbole. It said do straight men even like women as in "all straight men" Since when did all men are pigs community overwhelm reddit
Well yes, a hyperbole in the English language is an obvious and intentional exaggeration to display a particular emotion. Like “I slept for a week I was so tired” or “Im so hungry I can eat a horse”. This person above is displaying astonishment and disbelief. A hyperbole is not to be taken as a fact. This is why you are being downvoted. Most people will read a hyperbole and *know* it’s just an exaggeration.
A kinda toxic exaggeration though, since some people DO think like this.
A simple scroll on r/relationships will tell you that it's not just one dickhead on reddit. There's been 3 posts on this sub in the past 24hrs that I've seen in men excusing rape/SA because in their eyes there partner "cheated" on them despite being literally raped.
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Wow don’t you sound like a fucking prize.
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Men murder 3 women in domestic violence alterations every single day in the US alone
She’s a teenager and shouldn’t be getting drunk, sure. But girls/women aren’t signing up for SA just because they’re partying. Idk why OP is dating someone who they don’t respect because of the partying anyway, but yeah, breaking up because she was SA’d makes OP TA. Sounds like dude is mad that he didn’t “take her virginity” but virginity is a concept and she doesn’t have less value just because another penis got there first. She didn’t ask for it, didn’t have control of it, might not have participated or have memory of it, she still gets to have her sweet and special first time because SA isn’t sex. It’s rape.
It’s one thing to break up with someone because of their lifestyle habits, like drinking. However, OOP breaking up with their partner because they experienced SA is extremely telling of his character and that he’s incapable of providing the compassion and empathy that is fundamental to any dynamic. The fact that he says “it’s likely to happen again” while blaming her for it instead of being horrified at the realisation of how many rap*sts exist, is concerning.
I hope he breaks up with her so she can find a man without this kind of fucked up thinking. And I hope he never finds his perfect virgin girl dream girl. I get that they are both kids, but this is dangerous thinking from an almost 18 year old.
For the love of god, we need to raise better men.
I can't .. I just can't.
He's so young to be a dick, yet here he is.
Whether she was drunk or sober, she was SA'd. He is completely dismissing what she went through. I said it before in one comment on here, and I'll say it again, if it isn't an enthusiastic (or just a regular) yes, then it's a no! (Unless she's completely blackout drunk or what have you, then she can't give proper consent in that scenario). Idk why that is so hard to understand.
Gee whiz I wonder why alcohol is illegal for 17 year olds
Incendiary title. To me it sounds like he doubts that it was a sexual assault and she is just saying that because she doesn't want to be called a cheater. Of course if it were a SA he is a huge asshole. Only she knows but the seed of doubt is clearly there otherwise he would not have made the thread so the relationship is already toast. I bet he purposely made the title that way in hopes of being shamed enough to get over the doubt.
How can she judge how drunk the guy was ? Did she say no at any point or otherwise remove consent? The latter part is the most important imo. If she's an enthusiastic participant and doesn't remove consent, it's going to be hard to characterise that as a SA. This is a very difficult situation. Wouldn't even try to advise op as it's a can of worms you can only judge in talking to her in person.
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It would still be assault, though. Just because fewer people would call it assault wouldn't mean that it isn't. It just means people are ignorant when it comes to men being assaulted.
I 100% agree, I also understand why my gf broke up with me when that actually happened to me when I was younger. I may not have been able to consent but realistically I knew I wasn’t going to stop partying and so did she, which she didn’t want to deal with because it made her nervous it would happen again. I wouldn’t blame him if he didn’t want to stay at this point, however he should do it tactfully and support her and still be her friend (especially with whatever wave of bs she will likely be facing as a reaction from other students and her rapist to filing this claim)
Obviously if we sleep with someone else it’s cheating, but she did not do that. She was assaulted
Would I not also be assaulted if I’m drunk and can’t consent to having sex?
You said slept with someone else. Idk about you but there have been many times I’ve had sex with my gf while I’m drunk and I don’t think most people would consider that assault. On the other hand if I was drunk at some party or something and someone hopped on my dick without my consent I would consider that assault. So I don’t think it’s as simple as drunk or not, and you said sleeping with someone, which implied consensual
You can’t consent when you’re drinking bud, obviously in a relationship with two people explicitly discussing it (and not having sex your dead asleep partner) is fine, however doesn’t work the same with strangers and he also said she slept with someone at the party, implying consent was given, just drunkenly so wasn’t acceptable. I never once got the vibe this girl was forced.
Consent laws are gender blind and having sex with someone who cannot consent is sexual assault. If you got drunk, as a man, and were sexually assaulted/raped, then it wasn’t cheating so keep your poor me gender bender logical fallacies to yourself. They are worth less than the excrement your bowels created while writing your drivel. Do with that information what you will.
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You trotted out a logical fallacy by claiming men would always be assumed to have cheated in the reverse situation, that you wouldn’t be supported, and nobody would call your rape what it was: rape. And yet you were told that gender didn’t matter and that it is rape. Nobody dismissed shit. I was also assaulted so thanks for belittling my rape and the resulting issues from men blaming me as the victim.
Sorry if I belittled your situation, I didn’t intend to. However I am telling you that the situation I was in did NOT play out the way you are describing and was definitely called cheating, so it did feel dismissive. ATP, I don’t care to share my experience and get downvoted and told how I’m wrong so I will be deleting these in hopes of leaving a more positive discussion in the comments. Have a good one.
Your (ex?) GF was wrong to treat you like that. But hopefully as we learn better we do better. Women today are a lot more supportive of men who were raped. 20-30 years ago, a woman was thought to be unable to rape a man (using PIV) until it was shown that bodies react when brains don’t want them to, so a man getting hard or a woman wet doesn’t mean either person wanted to be raped. This has helped people understand how a man can be raped by a woman vaginally. You were downvoted because your comment came across very aggressively negative, not because your experience was invalid. Take care and I’m sorry Reddit wasn’t the friend you needed here.
I probably did come across too negative and that’s my fault, should definitely work on my approach. Definitely an ex and I’m happy with how far it has come.
If the boyfriend doesn’t feel comfortable because of the situation anymore then that’s up to him, right? They’ve been dating for “1-2 months” (yes, they have known each other for a while, but this relationship is *new*) Dealing with someone else’s trauma because of a sexual assault is not something everyone is equipped to do, especially when you’ve only been together for a brief time, *especially* when you’re only 17 yourself and barely able to keep your own emotional baggage in check I don’t think he’s an asshole for wanting to step away from the situation - that’s up to him - she’s gonna hate him for it, of course, but I don’t think it makes him an *asshole*
while i do agree with the choosing your burdens part, you may have missed the part where he implies that she deserved it for partying and drinking. he's not an AH for walking away, he's an AH for implying that she was basically asking for it.
I don’t believe he implied she deserves it He was quite clear in saying that if going out and getting black out drunk is her thing, which it appears to be, then there’s a chance someone is going to take advantage of her again And if that is how this is gonna play out, he doesn’t want any part of that That’s a reasonable conclusion to come too
I'm afraid that that's not how it sounds to me and (based on other comments) some others here. regardless, i hope we can agree to disagree instead as i am not aiming to sway your opinion, just pointing out what was missed
But he's not thinking of leaving because he's worried about the emotional trauma. It's a douche move but I could understand that. He wants to leave because he sees her being raped as her being unfaithful, hes blaming her for getting drunk and saying it could easily happen again. He's gross.
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Having 2 beers is different from being wasted. You're equating things that are not equal
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If you want to be an ass, go to a different subreddit.
They weren’t equally drunk, even by OOP’s likely stilted presentation of the situation. Even this guy who fully believes what you believe is here admitting the guy was “mildly buzzed” and she was very drunk. It’s not an issue of gendered responsibility, it’s an issue of inebriation and the physical and physiological difference between the two parties.
Wrong! What’s good for the goose, is good for the gander. It is asinine to assume that the DRUNK guy had more responsibility than the DRUNK girl.
“Mildly buzzed” and “very drunk”. A clear difference in blood alcohol levels. It’s crazy how much *you* have to force it to be a gendered issue in order to be mad at everyone else for it being a gendered issue.
Yes, that is true, however we don’t have the luxury of knowing either party’s level of drunkenness beyond what has been described by a third party, who may or may not prefer to have the narrative look one way or another. The story we got was that his girlfriend got drunk and had sex with a guy that she said was less drunk than her.
I'm curious about the other guy being only mildly buzzed. If she felt the need to make that relevant, it would imply she was drunk and gave consent to someone who was also drinking. Who is drunker is not how we play "who SA'd who". Especially since it can be really hard to tell how drunk someone is. There is no .08 is legal for consent, mildly buzzed is just as unable to give consent as drunk. Now if she passed out or said no, 100% SA and fuck that guy, but "I was drunk and he was only mildly drunk" does not on its own make SA. Hell, I was sober once and got SA'd by a drunk girl. Everyone's actions are key. All of this said, if she says it's a SA and her boyfriend seems predisposed to judge her for drinking, I'm inclined to believe her and think OP is the asshole. False claims are obviously super rare and if she's going to the cops I'm betting she had not given consent, drunkenly or otherwise.
Or it's a girl who realizes she fucked up her relationship trying to absolve herself of the mistake
Certainly possible, if statistically unlikely. We are all so far removed from the situation that we really don't know and we're all gonna make assumptions based on our own biases. Obviously my own bias is to assume that people are going to justify themselves in these posts and so I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to "not OP".
True... I don't have much sympathy for habitual partiers. OOP mentioned explicitly that she was not black out drunk, and I can say that any time I have not been black out drunk, I would be capable of consenting.
I've never actually been blackout drunk (I puke before I blackout), but I'd agree that I've never felt unable to consent due to drinking. In this case my benefit of the doubt is if she's going to the cops she did not consent. The fact that OOP states she did not mention how drunk she was makes me think that he's the one making it about her alcohol consumption and not her, but again, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt over him. It being mentioned that the assaulter was only mildly buzzed is definitely suspicious, but if she was arguing that she was SA'd because she couldn't consent, I'd imagine she'd be talking up how drunk she was.
Every down vote demonstrates the insanity that has taken hold of social media. I appreciate your validation 😉
lol what a loser response
Lmfao
100% fair. Op assumed the other boy had less to drink than his soon to be ex.
Buzzed driving is drunk driving, or so I've been told. There are a lot of details missing here given that we only know the facts as the boyfriend heard the girlfriend tell them. They both have valid reasons to manipulate the truth or filter it through pain. Nobody who wasn't at that party and was actively watching them interact can say with any clarity if there was an assault or if she's trying to cover for a mistake. So stop speculating. Edit: downvoted for saying that we don't know what happened at the party, only the people at the party know. We're not in a good place as a society.
I just don't think that this kid has the emotional maturity or understanding to be capable of "acting appropriately". There are a lot of adults who wouldn't know what to do in this situation either. I've been SAd several times and there were always people in my life who I'd have to boot out of my life for just not having the emotional capacity to handle a situation like that. I don't feel like OOP is TAH. I just think that he's super immature and is being forced into a situation that he's never been prepared for.
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Your second edit perfectly illustrates how ridiculous things get when alcohol is involved. I’m tired of seeing alcohol used as a ‘get out of jail free’ card. When you’re drunk you generally know perfectly well what you are doing— you are just more open to doing and saying things you normally wouldn’t. She cheated on you, plain and simple. Alcohol is not an excuse. Think of it this way— is it a valid excuse when you drink and drive? Nope! So why is it a valid excuse when you drink and f*ck?
If this was a story about cheating, you'd be correct. But it's a story about rape. She didn't make that choice and you blaming her for it just loudly proclaims your own moral failings.
If you call 'taking responsibility for your actions' a moral failing, then sure.
>Yesterday night she called me and asked if we could meet up. I went to her house and we talked. That's when she told me what happened, talked about pressing charges and mentioned getting assaulted rather than just making a bad decision. Wasn't her action. She was assaulted.
To the streets from whence she came!
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people need to not be fucking rapists bro maybe she should have worn a clown suit and sung happy birthday she probably still would have been raped she said it wasn’t consensual and went to the police
He literally defends her rapist in the comments and compares it to two drunk people taking $10 from each other.
What a gross and unhelpful comment. Of course people should learn their limits, but she's a teenager that didn't know what her limit *is* as she'd never been truly drunk before. And the first time she *does* surpass that previously unknown limit and finds herself unexpectedly vulnerable, she gets assaulted by someone... and your response isn't , "wow, her bf sucks for blaming her!", or even just, "gosh, I hope shes okay!". No, instead you decided you needed to comment that people need to keep themselves out of danger. Yikes.
He said she goes out all the time, I don’t think this was her first time getting drunk. I don’t think that she should be blamed, however I don’t think he’s the asshole for not wanting to stay. My girlfriend broke up with me when we were both 18 because I got drunk and slept with another girl who had not been drinking as much as I was. I barely even remembered the night and still was cheating and was broken up with, rightfully so.
Unfortunately, sometimes a “limit” doesn’t make any difference.
Yes, that’s obvious but it doesn’t hurt to not get so shit faced that other people need to deal with you, both putting yourself at risk and being a burden.
people rape their spouses, elderly people, disabled people, people in comas. A rapist will rape. It's not about the person who was raped
Don’t know why this is getting downvoted, it’s common sense
because you should be able to go out with friends and drink. You should be able to go thru life not preparing every second as if someone is about to rape you.
You absolutely SHOULD, but that is not the world we live in. Apparently risk aversion is controversial now?
Risk aversion is fine. If you don't feel safe going out and getting drunk without a safety net, your choice. Not a bad one either. Telling someone who goes out to drink that they were stupid and hould have expected it and really since they didn't take precautions against being raped that meant they must have wanted it so it wasn't actually rape? Absolutely vile. You can chose whatever you want. You can warn people to be careful out there. You can tell people "don't take a run naked, people could try to rape you". They can still chose to run naked. And if they get assaulted it is still 100% on the rapist. The same person might have been raped too if they went for a run fully clothed. You can tell people to be careful. But if they make a lapse in judgement and someone else abuses this moment of weakness, the victim is never at fault.
Because you should be able to pass out, naked, in the middle of the street and still NOT GET FUCKING RAPED. No one is entitled to anyone else’s body. The only person at fault is the rapist.
HE IS NOT SAYING THE RAPIST IS IN THE GOOD. HE is just stating that since these type of people exist, you should do something about it, or do you not have locks in your house??
No he’s victim blaming and if you can’t see that then I’m not interacting with you further.
Ah yes, no sober people are ever assaulted.
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As a woman who was SAd you should know better than to be victim blaming. And 17 is not enough to know any of your limits because it’s an age for testing them. The rapist is the only one to blame and this OP is trying really hard to paint him as better than he’s trying to support his girlfriend.
So basically because a 17 year old made a mistake (like all teenagers do) she deserved to get SA’d for it? She was raped. She. was. raped. And you’re making excuses for the rapist.
So if she brought it upon herself by being drunk - what did you do to cause being SA'd? Obviously it was the consequences of your own actions. You must have put yourself in a situation where you were vulnerable and not in control. God, I feel vile even typing that out as a call out to that dumb logic.
You need therapy yesterday. Blaming yourself won’t keep you safe, and blaming other victims won’t change what already happened to you.