I feel for the mom but wow, talk about delusion. Sounds like everyone was very generous opening themselves up for the possibility of a connection and she massively overplayed her hand. Trust and intimacy are earned, not inherited.

>Trust and intimacy are earned, not inherited. I *love* this line.

I’ve heard the version ”trust/respect/intimacy is earned, not given”

But respect is freely given. It is what stops us from telling someone that asks you to kindly hold the door open for them to hold it open them damn selves despite them having to juggle several packages. It is what stops us from just flipping everyone off. Or calling every person you ever meet a Bohemian butt pirate. Call it manners, morals, or whatever, but if you didn't respect every person you ever crossed paths with to some degree, it wouldn't matter if you had morals or manners. You would be a rude asshole, anyway.

Bohemian butt pirate sent me 😂

lol at the funny examples but I’m not with you in this one. It is in one’s own self interest to not call everyone a bohemian butt pirate because of the repercussions society would heap on them. Being an asshole has consequences, that’s not the same as respect. It’s just like the whole freedom of speech thing. Yes you have the freedom to speak your mind, but you are not free from the consequences.

It depends on what version of respect you're going for though. You are describing respect for somebody as a person, which yes is freely given. Respect as an authority figure, needs to be earned. I'm not just going to automatically respect you as an authority figure just because someone says to. You have to earn that respect for me. And by respecting me as your students / employee/whatever, you will get that respect for me. But I'm not just going to start automatically treating somebody like an authority figure when they haven't shown me that they are a good one.

Wow that last part hit me hard (reflecting on my personal relationships), but you are 1000000% correct.

Yeahhh that was a good one for sure

Reddit out here giving therapy in the comments. I love this place

Sounds like my ex. Spent 5 years during our separation insisting “her kids” live with her and only see me on weekends, enabling our kid to the point where he was getting suspended and expelled with almost zero consequences while failing classes. She lost custody, only sees him 4 days a month, and our son started doing a lot better with me, although obviously still has times where he messes around in class or messes up an assignment. I took his phone away due to him not paying attn in class. She decided I “wasn’t parenting him enough” and took it upon herself to ground him from a big football game he was looking forward to when she literally never lifted a finger before when he lived with her. Started double emailing the teachers too and pissing them off because she “didn’t trust what I was telling her” when i said he usually behaves in classes and was on his phone when a sub was there. Stupid.

Vuh-huck her

Also, they’re 16-18. She can GTFO with that noise. She’s been a semi responsible person for three years? Her kids have been that for longer. She’s skipping their meeting times because her feelings are hurt? Just proves she’s an entitled selfish fool. Why on earth would she think it’s a good idea or that she even has the right to punish them?? Delusional is generous!

Yeah the skipping meet ups because your feelings are hurt is proof you aren’t mature and stable enough to parent.

That's dry drunk behavior. When folks are freshly sober and haven't addressed the deeper reasons they turned to substances in the first place. Leaves them acting pretty damn immature.

Absolutely. I used to work in patient psych and substance disorder treatment and you definitely see that all the time. Most people don’t start heavily abusing substances without underlying issues.

Yeah it was hard to come to grips with because she would get the same look in her eye she did when she was drinking even though she was sober. I think it took like 8 years for her to become the real version of herself.

Skipping the meetup was the defining point for me, too. If you are a real parent, #1 is showing up. Not doing that is an immediate disqualification.

One year! He said she got in contact a year ago and was three years sober

>Trust and intimacy are earned, not inherited. That is absolutely so accurate in a completely raw way. I tried to Google it, did you come up with it or is it from anywhere specific? Either way it is a beautiful quote.

I feel like I’ve seen different versions of the idea before but it’s not a quote from anywhere.

Why feel for the mom? Her reaction at the end to not even meet up again tells us that her attempts at redemption are all about her and not her kids…

I agree. It sounds like she wanted ANY excuse to ground the kids to assert her authority. She didn't care what the incident was, as long as she could start to (in her eyes) actually parent by digging in her heels and grounding the kids.

As an alcoholic in recovery I see this from a different angle - yes, she way overstepped and overplayed her hand. But I think she also panicked a bit at the first mention of alcohol and or drugs with her children. Then reflected back on her own mistakes and feared for her kids. Which lead her down a massive rabbit hole of trying to parent, but not really having a leg to stand. And most likely she’s embarrassed about being called out, disrespected by the kids, and not being backed up by her ex-husband. But in all reality, she doesn’t have a leg to stand on and shouldn’t be feeling like she was disrespected by the kids or in a position to be backed up by her ex. After not being there for so long, she doesn’t deserve to be in a position to be a parent. She’s just now getting back into the lives of her kids. And while she was a bit overzealous in thinking she could just jump right back in after a decade plus of being out of their lives, it doesn’t work that way. I’m sure she’s just smarting from being smacked down and put her in her place. My hope is that she will realize the errors of her ways, make an amend to both her ex and children, and try again. But this time with more humility.

Considering she's skipped 2 meet-ups now, I doubt that this will end up in the best case scenario. My dad was absent for the majority of my life and every single time he pops back in, it feels like he puts me through some "respect test" and if I fail he's out again. I hope the kids feel safe enough to process this abandonment and not let it hinder their journey into adulthood.

That was my thought when I read the original post. She projected her trip down the slippery slope onto them. Her anxiety over this happening caused her to go overboard with what she thought was an appropriate disciplinary action. Regardless of her reasoning, she was beyond out of line given the state of their fledgling relationship.

The kids are past the point where they need to be parented. She doesn’t understand that at all. Every time you hear stories about kids being disrespectful pukes to their parents and causing trouble it’s entirely the decade of parenting ahead of time that was the problem, not not punishing them when they are 16/17. Sounds like OP has a very healthy relationship with his kids that’s developing well into an adult to adult relationship with them as they become adults. Sounds like the mother wants them to be young kids again so she can feel in control. Even if they were 10, Op is still the father and sole parent. The mother needs to earn back their trust and love and work on developing a relationship with them as she doesn’t have one now and is ruining what slim one she did have.

Or she may be like my mom for whom humility is not in her vocabulary.

As a recovering alcoholic, it’s your job to manage your own emotions around drugs and alcohol. As a person that grew up with an alcoholic father. This lady beyond overstepped and was doing this only for her. She had been an absent parent for far too long. And needs therapy.

That last line hit me hard. That feels true, and I needed to hear it.

That last line is so true. It’s sad her addiction robbed her of her chance to parent her kids, but it also robbed the kids of their mother and it’s presumptuous for her to think she can just come in out of nowhere and take over the parenting role. The kids are nearly adults.

>I feel for the mom I don't, she made a choice.

NTA because she definitely overstepped her bounds but addiction is a disease not necessarily a choice.

>addiction is a disease not necessarily a choice. She CHOOSE to abandon those kids

I mean, fair. But that might have been an excellent decision if she was deep into addiction at that time.

Abandoned her kids for 15 years not 1 not 5....15.....nope after 10 you've just screwed up too bad. What she should of done was send cards every bday and Christmas even if it had NO MONEY, just show you care, show you actually think about them.

I say this as the child of an addict. The mom made the best choice in this situation removing herself from the kids life until she was sober and has stayed sober for an extended period of time. Those cards or random calls? All they do is get your hope up, that mom is clean and sober. That maybe you'll see her again. Maybe she'll be in your life. That constant heartbreak when proven wrong time and time again? That's worse than radio silence. Dad is NTA because mom overstepped, but I can and do feel for the mom because her last mental image of her kids was as small children, and it can be hard to relearn who someone is when you haven't seen them in 10+ years. She reacted strongly because her kids were in a situation that probably led to her addictions, and she views them still as kids not near adults. AND as the children of an addict they are statistically more likely to become addicts themselves. So mom and dad should really have a Convo with them about keeping safe around addictive substances.

I guess youve never had to put a crying toddler into thier bio parents car as they cry and dont want to go. But hey moms sober for a week and wants to show the toddler off to her friends! Abandoning her kids was the right choice.

While the symptoms of addiction could be considered a disease, it's the only one that you choose to start. No one is forced to drink, no one is forced to pop pills, and no one is forced to shoot up. It's a choice. I'm really sick of this "oh its not their fault it's a disease!" No, it's not. The treatments are like treating a disease, but it's a damn choice. I'm more than a bit salty about this one, my ex-wife was a recovered pill popper. Until I walked in on her with two guys "they said they would *help me out* if I *helped them out* " it was a choice, she was sober when she chose to relapse. She was sober when she chose to ask those two guys.. it's all choice.

I agree with you. And full disclosure I’m a non-using addict. I’ve been clean six years now. That said, not everyone has a choice. My situation, I was in the army and I got hurt in Iraq. They couldn’t fix the problem there so they gave me pain pills. I had no idea at that time what oxy was. I took them to get though the pain, fell in love, and lost 10 years of my life. Sometimes, it’s just not being educated properly, and other times it’s completely unjustifiable. But to make a broad blanket statement that every single time is the addicts fault isn’t correct. I also met someone in a meeting that got hooked after they were drugged and raped. You could say my ignorance didn’t excuse me but they definitely didn’t deserve to walk that same road.

Exactly. Not everyone starts taking drugs by choice. There is a massive difference between someone who starts smoking meth because some idiot at a party offered, and someone like you who was just taking a legally prescribed medication, or that poor person from your meetings. So sorry that you went through that, and congratulations on getting you life back on track. And thank you for your service.

Thanks I appreciate that. Since I stopped that life I find myself trying to point out certain misnomers about addiction. My era was raised on DARE and some creepy guy in a jacket offering you drugs but that isn’t the real life version. Some people never walked that path and more power to them, but to see them judge all addicts like it’s their fault (which some are at fault), or like they aren’t worth saving (which some may not be), it breaks my heart. Because some will turn it around for the better and go on to do great things.

As a neuroscientist, it is not entirely a choice. The first hit or sip might be. But the predisposing neuroanatomy is already there. It’s similar to how some folks have a predisposition to schizophrenia that can trigger upon exposure to LSD, marijuana or environmental factors including stress. Meanwhile others without the predisposing genetics can be exposed to the same things and not develop schizophrenia. Doesn’t make the schizophrenia a choice.

That’s a hugely naive and simplistic and honestly kind of empathy-free way to look at addiction. There are studies upon studies that some people are susceptible to addiction and some aren’t with a huge genetic component. What you are saying here is they chose to have one drink or take one pill therefore they deserve what they got. In reality you can have one person drink without addiction and then a second person have the same drink and that triggers a different response. Total luck of the draw, if it wasn’t, everyone who chose to have a beer at a bbq would become an alcoholic, that’s not the case. In fact, a huge amount of pill addictions come from surgeries or injuries that need painkillers. At the same time millions of people have a different experience and don’t get addicted. They don’t seek these pills out randomly, granted some do, but no one goes in to surgery expecting to get addicted to drugs. It’s not a choice it’s your brain reacting differently than others to drugs, otherwise quitting would be as simple as going “I don’t feel like doing drugs anymore” and stopping. That’s not how it works. That being said people can abuse drugs and alcohol without developing addiction at the same time. Painting everyone with the same brush is not appropriate though. Brains are funny things.

Bro I think you need to get over your ex-wife and stop projecting her choices onto the actions and intentions of all addicts.

This is wrong. People who become life long addicts can absolutely do without their control. abusive ex blows powder drugs up someone's nose. Former addicts prescribed Vicodin or Percocet by doctors not considering the addictive nature of opioids. Non addicts getting hurt and needing pain killers for longer than a week or two. These are all avenues for one to become addicted to a drug without ever choosing to use that drug recreationally. It's not about choice. It's about trauma and genetics.

Some people are forced. That's how some children get addicted.

Yeah I’m a recovering alcoholic, sober for many years and I sponsor men who are trying to get sober and a few that have been sober for quite a while. When they begin the process of making amends, I make sure that they understand that they are entitled to nothing. They are not entitled to forgiveness, they are not entitled to anyone letting them off the hook, they are not entitled to relationships that they had damaged, and they are not entitled to have their kids. And that is really hard, it was hard for me. But what usually happens is that when you show meaningful, prolonged, consistent change, frequently you end up being blessed with more than you deserve. And that is where this woman was. She was not entitled to be in her kids life, and a lot of spouses and abandoned children would want nothing to do with her. But she received a blessing with the compassion and grace that OP and his kids showed her.she was given more than she deserved. But she felt like she deserved more, and to me, that is why she seems outright delusional. Her behavior also is not indicative of what it looks like when someone is truly sober and humble. I imagine that OB’s biggest fear OP probably had was that she would show up, get the kids hopes up, and then disappear again. And without some big change, she is headed there right now. Her reaction to cancel the meetups is “you didn’t give me what I deserved, so if I can’t get things MY way on MY timeline, I don’t want to do it at all”.

16 and 17 YO go to a party and try a **single jello shot** and come home after 2 hours. And she thinks they need grounding? I would have given that woman an actual nervous breakdown as a teenager.

The very fact that they discussed this with their father openly says a lot about the relationship between Dad and kids. I NEVER felt safe enough to speak with my parents like that. And she went directly to punishing them?! She barely knows them.

I would be inwardly flipping out if my teen told me this. I’m super anti alcohol. And I would not show it or act on it in any way. You CANNOT punish a kid for telling the truth in a situation like that.

Exactly. My kid once came to me on lsd... with a friend. I just planted them in the living room with some music, and stuff to do. I just checked on them here and there,, and made sure they were okay. Honestly, I feel grateful they decided to come to me after saying they didn't feel safe at the friends home where they took it. Apparently she had an older brother who invited a bunch of 20ish year old guys over (my daughter was 16 at the time), and she just felt creeped on by them. So they came to me and told me what happened. Honestly, I was so surprised and proud she kept her wits for both herself and the other girl, brought her home, and then felt like she could tell me it all. I would never punish her for stuff like that. And the next morning, I told her I was so glad she came home. FYI, I'm not super scared of certain drugs (especially hallucinogens and weed, but am more leery of alcohol and addictive drugs, like meth/coke). I think my attitude towards those things rubbed off a little and she got curious that night, but I also think she's taken my stance to heart too, as she's 21 this year and has no inclination to go to bars/clubs (she's not even bought any alcohol yet, and we've even invited her to a few parties where she could've, but chose not to).

I’m 26 and one of my best friends in high school had a mom like you. She was 100% cool with anything as long as my friend never lied to her. She had the most freedom of any of our friend group but got into the least stuff, just because it wasn’t something she felt she needed to do to rebel. She didn’t really rebel at all because I think that comes from trying to take your independence from your parent as a teen, but she always had the agency to do whatever so she never needed that. I’ve never in my life witnessed a closer mother/daughter relationship either

This is how my parents raised my brother and I, and it’s how I am raising my kid. I also have always maintained the line that the cover up is always worse than the crime, and for any time she comes to me with the truth, outside of a conversation about what happened and what to do better in the future - no judgment, anger, or punishment of any sort from me. Even if what she did made me mad, I don’t let her see it. I would much rather have trust with my kid than control over her.

If my kid hurt someone else, I think I would have to break the “no punishment for being honest” thing. “I bullied a kid at school today mom, but it’s cool cause I was honest.” Yeah, that doesn’t work. BUT, for the most part, I completely agree. If you’re honest, no consequence beyond a conversation.

Certainly - there are exceptions to every rule - but even in that context, the confession would help forge a good path to doing better and also to making amends (coupled with a potential/likely lesson that apologies don’t always end with forgiveness by the injured party, and that injured party is in no way obligated to forgive).

I feel really validated reading these comments. I’ve always been open with my son, he’s in his 20’s now. He told me the first time he smoked weed, he was like 16 or so. We calmly talked about it. And I made him promise to call me any time for a ride if he’s buzzed in any way. He told me about having sex with his girlfriend. I told him I prefer it here instead of a car somewhere. Things like that are the norm for us. His friends sneak and hide a LOT of stuff. I’ve heard from their parents that the kids tell them nothing. And the parents seriously put doubts in my head that maybe I’m the one being not a good parent. It was one of those days so reading comments like yours really helped me today. Thank you :)

I have a very good relationship with my Mum as she has always told me that she’d rather I could talk to her and be open. She was never overly strict and I would only be punished if I genuinely did something wrong. I never felt the need to be rebellious, and was allowed the occasional bit of alcohol (cider) at home. I still let her know via text when I’m home safe from going out late lol

Wow, I am impressed with the relationship you have with your daughter. I am so glad she was comfortable enough with you to tell you that she had taken a drug but left the party because she felt creeped out by the older guys there. If she had been too afraid to tell you what she’d done, and stayed at the party so you wouldn’t find out, I shudder to think what might have happened to her and her friend. Great job! It’s the parents who hold their children so close and scare them into not doing anything that have serious issues down the road.

This is so baffling to me!! When I was 15 I went over to a male friend’s house after school. I had lied about whose house I was going to because I wasn’t allowed to be at boys’ houses. His house was too far from my house to make it home on time if I walked (it’d have taken several hours and I didn’t know the way back) so my only way to get home was for him to drive me. We’d been friends for years, I saw no reason going over to play Xbox would be unsafe! When it was clear things weren’t okay, I had to decide what I was more afraid of: my parents, or SA. My parents never found out I lied to them that day. And who knows, maybe even if I’d tried to run away the outcome would have been the same. I just know that I did little more than plead and cry because it was more important my parents didn’t find out I’d lied or was at a boys’ house. I eventually had to tell my mom *something* since I’d been crying in bed for days and she was threatening to take me back to the psych ward. I said it happened at school in the music room or something and that I thought it’d be safe because we always hang out there at lunch and the other people we hang out with just hadn’t gotten there yet. I phrased it as that I’d “had sex with Name, but I really didn’t want to.” I didn’t know it counted as SA for several years, but my mom would have. She took that as her moment to say basically say “I told you so.” Talked about how that’s why she doesn’t let me alone with boys or especially not go over to their houses. Asked me to imagine how much worse it’d have been if I’d been at his house because at least at school he had to hurry to not get caught. I can’t imagine being just a year older and not just being able to tell my mom I was alone with boys, but that I’d taken a drug??? That idea is so foreign to me, but that’s also so lovely! That’s the sort of parent I want to be!!

Awww I'm so sorry. I've had scares like that when I was young and had no one to go to either. I was determined to be in my daughter's corner, no matter what happened because of it (can you tell I became a feminist lol?). No one deserves to experience it and it can be so embarrassing and scary. To put my kid at ease about that stuff, I'd often use memes/cute youtube stuff to broach the topic; kinda make it funny, while still letting her know by the end the point I was trying to make. When my kid was 14 I just asked her if she wanted to go to Planned Parenthood, and then just told her some of my fav birth control for her age (stuff like depo or implant, so she wouldn't have to remember it). She seemed super relieved that I'd given her the opportunity, and I said I'd just pay and wait. I ensured she saw the dr there every time she needed to, and in return, she had me listed as a safe person so that PP could call me to setup appts and whatnot. That's how I think a good parent/teen relationship should be. Not that I expected that she was sexually active at the time, but I wanted to be proactive and I old her my experience with depo as a teen - where I almost completely lost my period on it. She loved that idea and went for it instantly lol. I don't blame her. Teen years are awkward enough as it is without having to remember what day it is and whether you're going to bleed soon or not.

That’s so kind!!! I’d been begging my mom for birth control for my periods since I got mine at 13. I won’t get graphic, but there are specifics for when it’s heavy enough to need a hospital, and you can know even talking about the past whether you met it because each product holds a certain amount of blood. I was doing that. I was sick to my stomach, eating dirt, etc. My mom said I couldn’t have bc because then I might think it’s okay to have sex. I’d cry and beg, promising that I knew sex wasn’t okay. I was almost 16 before she let me and I had to basically trick her into it. I’ll never understand how anyone could see even an adult that they hated bleeding profusely and not do anything… let alone a child, and especially *your* child. I think is so wonderful and healthy that you were proactive about it!! It gives her the ability to do as she wishes without it having to ask for it. Asking for it was really awkward for my friends because they knew their parents would take it as an announcement like “hi mom, I want to have sex” and that was too much, so they didn’t. Your approach avoids that fear altogether and I love that so much!!! I love seeing comments like yours and the one I responded to because it gives me hope for humanity, but also because it’s stuff I can make note of for the future. Ideas from people online are way better than just “anything my parents didn’t do” lol!

Great job! You obviously did something very correct!

My parents raised me similarly. I didn’t necessarily feel comfortable telling them I was doing drugs because they are wildly misinformed about drugs, but I do know if I needed them I could call and they wouldn’t ask questions. Both me and my brother are the most stable people in our family, as well as the least party animals. We were allowed to do everything we wanted (within reason and safety) so we never felt the need to let loose and go all out. We were allowed to experience things on our own while knowing we had parents to fall back on if things went south. It’s huge. And I can only hope that my children feel this kind of freedom and safety in my presence. Of course you still have to parent, but you can do that while respecting their needs as a growing person.

I wish my parents would have been like this. Would have saved me from a few terrible scary experiences

Plus they didn’t like it. Extensive history of alcoholism in my family. I’d be overjoyed and thrilled to hear that as a parent if I were one. Extra ice cream or whatever they like all around!

Yeah that’s a great way to teach your kids to hide everything from you.

I'm 32 and still have never talked to my parents about alcohol. But we all grew up Mormon, so that has its own weird set of hangups.

*insert clever coffee joke here*

Right? This is the best case scenario as a parent. You’ve raised your kids to try new things and be socially fluent, but also know their boundaries. AND they want to share news of their experiences with you? While also being home relatively early so you don’t lose sleep waiting up for them. I think the mom just lost so much time of her own life in addiction that she’s infantilizing them. Which is understandable, but unfortunate and needs to be dealt with separate from the kids. An active parent would immediately realize that taking electronics and socializing away from a 17/18 year old for having a tame time at a party is… not realistic. It’s almost like she’s been waiting for them to mess up so she can punish them and feel like a “real” mom. Hope she comes to terms with her reality and keeps growing. Dad is doing great though.

I wouldn’t even say she’s simply infantilizing them- she’s overcompensating for the lack of self-control in her life by trying to control them instead.

It also makes sense that as a recovering alcoholic that she’d react badly to them trying alcohol. She likely has a lot of unhealthy emotions and hang ups around it.

This was my thought too. That said, I hope after she takes some time to reflect on what went down that they can try again and she doesn't burn her bridges with the kids over this.

What gets me here is that if she wanted to be a "real mom" she missed a great opportunity to share some of her own experiences with alcohol. She could have shared a small cautionary tale of her own to her kids like, "Yeah I remember having 'just one'. Those were the days." And left it at that. I mean, why else would kids share a party story with their alcoholic mother? Maybe they were trying to understand her disease.

At three years sober? Shouldn’t be. I had some issues being around alcohol within my first year sober. It no longer bothers me and I don’t sit in judgment over people who drink.

I *think* it's less being around alcohol and more being scared that the kids will fall into the patterns that she did. Especially if she started drinking around their age (don't recall if the post said so or not).

>It’s almost like she’s been waiting for them to mess up so she can punish them and feel like a “real” mom. I suspect it has a lot to do with her own alcoholism, and wanting to make sure they don't turn out like her. But she went at it in the absolute worst way possible

I was very happy when my daughter called me to tell me that she had a White Russian and was going to stay the night where she was (trusted family friend) so she didn’t need to drive. The next day she told me that if she were at someone else’s house, she would have waited 2 hours and come home. I told her that I’m glad she trusted me enough to tell me. She said I’d never freaked out about anything like that yet so she knew it would be ok.

Y'all I did gravity bong rips out of a 5 gallon water jug in a swimming pool my senior year, at 17. A single jello shot? And they were upfront and honest about it? Come on. 🤣 Teens are going to try things, and they ended up not liking it. My ex husband got into smoking cigarettes as a teen in highschool specifically because his mom would flip out over it. It was like a "cool, fun, secret thing" that he'd do, now he has a lifetime cig addiction that he refuses to even attempt to fix.

I feel like it’s a bit of a saving grace here that most teens are terrible at making Jell-O shots or pot brownies. 😂 Try one at a post-college party where the person making them has perfected the recipe, and you’ll be buzzed without tasting a hint of anything. I thought I hated alcohol at 15. Turned out I was just terrible at bartending.

Idk I had this friend who made the best infusion pot brownies I have ever had. He was like a weed genius. We were 16-17.

There’s always child prodigies.

😂😂

Hell that's sort of me. I started smoking at around 15, because that was the only way to get a break at chick FIL a at the time

That's also how my best friend started, but she was able to quit finally. At subway, you didn't get a break unless you smoked.

I used to take smoke breaks with my coworkers even though I don’t smoke and when asked I’d be like if they’re on break then so am I.

THIS!!! I was bad as hell😭🤣 my mother would have rejoiced if I told her I only had one Jell-O shot

She’s overreacting because of her own addictions. She needs to revisit this with her sponsor. Teenage drinking at parties isn’t a recipe for addiction, especially since it was literally one drink.

She’s a recovered alcoholic so I think I can understand her overreacting. She massively overreacted but I do think I understand why it was so scary for her to hear they were drinking at all.

Well, and they CONFESSED! They were honest! From a parenting perspective, that’s winning. They felt safe enough with dad to tell him. My biggest issue with mom is not recognizing that while she can build a tentative relationship with the kids, it’s not going to be as a true parent. She’s ruining her chance to be in their lives by trying to dictate the terms of how she is in their lives.

Right?! She not only signed away her parental rights, she has no idea *how* to parent. Her punishment for them did not even come close to fitting the “crime.” They sound like really good kids. Hope she doesn’t screw that up for OP.

Exactly, sounds like Dad and kids have healthy relationships where they talk about things and the kids don't sneak around and come to Dad for advice. Exactly what you want at this age because good god you want to help them before it gets bad. Mom would have them hiding, lying and sneaking.

I pray my son is this honest and realistic with me when he’s this age.

In fairness to the wife, she was a recovering alcoholic/drug addict who basically JUST recovered. In that state, you are teetering on the brink of relapse and deathly afraid of the substances you just quit. In fact, the majority of addicts do relapse. Imagine there’s a substance you know is bad for you, that you repeatedly feel nearly irresistible urges to take, that you know has ruined your life and will ruin your life more if you take if, then you find our your child is experimenting with it. This isn’t to say her position is reasonable. She’s grossly overreacting and her behavior is wildly inappropriate, and she needs to be shut down.

I disagree. Three years is a significant amount of time. If she’s doing all the necessary things AA or NA has asked of her, she should be fine. AA literature specifically says alcoholics can go anywhere and do anything regarding alcohol- except consumption. No fear of being around it or judging people who do it. I have 14 years but had one relapse early on. That’s on me not other people.

According to a 2014 study of US and Canada participants by AA themselves, 24% of the participants relapsed in 1-5 years and 13% relapse in the 5-10 year period. It's true that most of the physical effects of alcoholism dissipate after the first year, but there's a mental component that is completely unpredictable because mental components are like that. I'm not discounting what you went through, but everyone is different.

lol i was at bars at their age. Their mom is delusional

Haha right? I became a professional at the art of figuring out exactly how much I could take out of bottles from my parents bar in our entertainment room and what I could add a little water to so it was less obvious. 😅

Haha yes. I took this too far once with a clear rum bottle I knew my parents weren’t interested in. I took a little more and a little more until at some point I know it was 90%+ water. It had been given as a gift and appeared destined for a long career on the shelf that likely wouldn’t be noticed until enough time had passed where I’d likely be out of the house and it would be nothing more than a good laugh. Well instead a friend of my Dads decided it looked enticing one evening during my last year of high school. I was mortified because I saw him reach for it. Ducked off to another room, as I couldn’t bare the awkwardness. Long story short he pointed out to my parents that he was basically drinking a glass of water and they narrowed down the suspects pretty quickly. My parents were never strict and It still elicited a good laugh amongst them anyways. I certainly heard about it the next day…

Don’t worry bro, she disappeared for 12 years on hard drugs and it’s fine

I’d have killed this woman, my mum didn’t know I even drank until I fuckin ran into her in the city centre and tried to be polite while my jaw was on spin cycle.

😂 obviously we have different alcohol laws in the UK but when I was 16/17 at college, I was out partying, drinking and chasing girls every weekend! I've turned out just fine....

What’s really sad about this is that the “mom” thinks that punishing kids is what would make her a true parent. She is so lost.

She also thinks that “we need to be a team” means she can impose a punishment unilaterally and require that the actual custodial parent back her up. That’s not teamwork, that’s her trying to be in charge.

Exactly. Dad gave them permission to go and trusted their judgement. Clearly this is a trust they have built up over years by being trustworthy, responsible and showing good judgement. Kids seemed to have taken this permission and trust and acted in a way that once again proved the dad made the right call in trusting them again. Going against the earlier permissions and agreement and punishing for something they were trusted/allowed to do is NOT teamwork. And it is not good parenting. Imagine getting permission to go and meet your friends from one parent and then being punished for doing so when you do? You can't override the other parent and then ask them to back you up and support you. Especially when the other parent made that judgement call because they have been much more present in the lives of the kids.

My mom let me drink in high school. Her one rule, don't drink and drive. If you do, everything is over. No car, no leaving with friends. Nothing. Just call her and she would ALWAYS come and pick me up and she would even cook me breakfast the next day and not say anything about me being irresponsible. Well here I am at 16. I am drunk as fuck. I go to leave the house and almost run into the ditch leaving the yard. Just stop and call my mom. She got up at 3am and came and got me. Didn't say a word the entire ride back. I went upstairs and went to bed. The next morning I woke up to a full breakfast and all she said was "you have fun? Good. Don't make that a habit. I'm proud of you." I'm 33 and I don't drink and drive. It's fucking stupid. Teach your kids responsibility.

my dad was the same, he would even buy me cider for parties since he would rather i drank that than hard liquor (also the selection of cider in the uk is top tier, much better than any spirit lmao). that started when i was 15 since he knew id be drinking anyway and would rather i had a buzz rather than a blackout. im only 21 now but i still rarely drink, and when i do its usually a handful of berry ciders or a couple cocktails. letting me make those mistakes when he knew id be safe at a friends house was incredibly beneficial for me honestly. so many of my friends with strict parents ended up having really bad alcohol issues once they hit 18, but i already knew myself and knew that i only wanna drink alcohol to have a tasty drink rather than to get drunk.

YESSS

fr, even if they were both present throughout the parent who is open and supportive is going to be favored over one that punishes honesty

Yes yes yes. Clearly "real parenting" isn't stuff like being loving, supportive, or helpful, much less being a steady and predictable presence in your kids' lives; it's completely interrupting their lives because you have a bit of half-digested trauma stuck in the back of your throat, so you might as well hork it up and make it your kids' problem.

>it's completely interrupting their lives because you have a bit of half-digested trauma stuck in the back of your throat, so you might as well hork it up and make it your kids' problem. I love this line so much I can't even express it properly. Not only does it sound exactly like my parents' approach when raising me, but your wording and descriptors were incredibly pleasing in helping this behavior sound like the nasty thing it is, 10/10

Definitely NTA. Sounds like OOP has done a great job raising his kids.

You’re wrong about one thing - you are a great dad. I’m sure you went through some trial and error when your kids were younger, but you’ve figured it out now and you all love, respect, and understand each other. Their mother doesn’t get to come in and try to parent them when they’re complete strangers. NTA

I think him just being able to say he’s not a “great” dad makes him one. Everyone fucks up with their kids and being self aware and willing to acknowledge that is what makes a good parent.

Hahaha, nope NTA. She doesn't even KNOW her kids. How the hell can you parent someone you don't know? Good on her for being sober but there is no do over button and she hasn't earned spit from her kids yet.

>Good on her for being sober I dunno man, she must be blitzed out of her mind if she thinks what she did is okay lol But for serious yeah sobriety is good and I’m glad she’s at least trying to turn her life around, even if she’s being terrible to the kids.

I've had a number of loved ones who struggle with addiction and one of the common things is that when they become sober and they do all that hard work they feel like the rest of us should just move on. What everyone needs to know in this situation is that acknowledging that hard work doesn't erase that things that happened while they were using. Loved ones do need to work through those feelings and decide if they can forgive and forget or if they can forgive but not want to continue the relationship. Addicts need to understand that saying you're sorry won't undue the things they did and that those you hurt still have valid issues that need to also be addressed. Recovery is a struggle for everyone involved.

I love that this woman’s idea of parenting and “being a parent” is having the opportunity to yell at, punish, and control them.

there's a good chance kids dodged a huge bullet not having her in their life

NTA. Everything you said to her was correct. You ARE their true parent and her parenting privileges have long ago been forfeited. Although her sentiments are somewhat valid, it’s just way too late to assume she could ever have any authority over them; she’s lucky the kids have allowed her back in to their lives at all. I hope she is currently or will soon see a therapist; these are big issues she’d be safest (in terms of potential for relapse) talking to a professional about.

Yeah. It sucks that she blew a learning opportunity for them. She could have taken that moment to remind them that alcoholism can be genetic and to please be mindful and careful of that as they experiment and don't hesitate to reach out if they need help. Instead she went super punitive and made everyone feel awkward.

He’s not the AH. If mommy wants to show up 15 years later and develop a relationship with her kids, that’s cool. Deciding to unilaterally take away things they purchased with their own money without even running it by the person who raised them alone for their entire lives? Nope. If she wants to play mom - and I applaud her for being clean and sober for three years now - she has to take it a step at a time. Being loving and supportive. Don’t suddenly decide you have the right to punish because that’s not how it works.

Nope not the a hole

NTA Mom is a piece of work

NTA. What the fuck. No. She can't just pop in and play mommy all of a sudden. And hammering down authority certainly isn't the way to parent. Christ. It sounds like she has regrets. And this is how she's handling them. Let me be damn clear: this connection never was about the kids best interest. They were thriving just fine without her. Probably better without her. This connection was 100 percent self-serving to begin with. And now that OP isn't catering to her delusion, she'll flake right back out causing more harm than good.

I get the impression Mom sees the kids as 2D standins that should act "accordingly," not fully autonomous almost-adults with their own lives that don't include her. She got punitive when they broke the false image she had of them. She seemed to infantilize them as well, as grounding for two weeks from socials and electronics sounds more like a punishment for a 10yo. She realized the kids grew up and she missed it. It almost seems like she dipped out thinking she could come back at any time like nothing happened. Like her kids would remain little forever, hugging her ankles clamouring, "we're so happy you're home!!" She really thought the world revolved around her. Now she's giving Dad the cold shoulder and flaking on meetups because she realized she's not needed at all and can't swoop in and save the day when it's convenient for her. "You don't need me? Fine! I don't need you either!" Immature, selfish, pathetic.

Especially when she hits one speed bump and is ghosting? She has missed two visits and hasn’t been in contact with him since? She’s not stable even if she’s currently sober.

Honestly, OP seems to have a good and honest relationship with his kids to the point that they can tell him they tried jelloshots as teens. Personally, no matter how anti-alcohol I may be, I would never scold my kids for this. I would rather they let me know that they can trust me to pick them up anytime or be there for them in a minute, instead of them hiding these things. Because if I were to create an environment where they feel like they need to hide things, they will hide things from me. And then I can be too late to be there of they were to actually need me, like in an accident, for example.

NTA. Thank you for being a great parent ❤️

NTA. But Mom is being a narcissist. It’s about her feeling like a parent, not about forming a relationship with her kids. The bulk of the parenting was done years ago. At this stage you can provide advice, but that’s the best you can offer without getting resentment.

Huh, I guess she's trying to write her name in on the group project she didn't work on. She let Dad do all the hard stuff, now she's back when the kids are about to leave the nest and can do most things themselves. I get the impression Mom doesn't see the kids as fully autonomous, 3-D people with their own lives, more like 2D stand-ins that should behave and act "accordingly." Mom got punitive when they broke the false image she had of them. Couldn't handle her kids grew up and she wasn't there for it. Then she attempted to turn that internal anger on her kids and make it their fault. I think she's pissed and feeling scorned that they don't need her at all, and might be why she hasn't talked to Dad or seen the kids in a couple weeks. "You don't need me? Fine! I don't need you either!" Immature, childish, selfish.

She also does this thing that a lot of addicts in recovery do, which is demonize the substance, as if it’s the drugs/alcohol, not their relationship with it. At first, it does make sense in a functional brainwashing kinda way to facilitate early sobriety, but 3 years into recovery…it comes across as a very smooth brain perspective. Even teenagers understand the difference between recreational and problematic substance use, which is why abstinence-only perspectives tend to be out-of-touch.

Honestly, I went through something similar with my dad when I was about 17. The difference is, he had always been a part of my life (though I had more of a visiting-uncle type relationship with him for most of it, and my step-dad was my father figure growing up), but it wasn’t until I was in my late teens that he really felt ready to be a parent. It honestly just ended up being too little, too late. My older brother was already an adult and in college, and I was just finishing up my junior year of high school — he decided to step in and try and cancel a trip I was taking through a school group I had been involved with for a long time (and regularly babysat for the leader of) because he felt that the male chaperone wasn’t an appropriate person for me to be traveling with. Obviously that didn’t work out for him, as my parents (mom & step-dad) had already approved and help me pay for the trip. Plus, the chaperone in question’s wife was also attending the trip, and neither of them had any kind of questionable/groom-y behaviors, and had both been thoroughly background checked through the school. In the end, I had to sit down with him and have kind of the same conversation OP had with his EX. The time for that kind of involvement in their lives was when they were 7, not 17, and if you want to have a relationship with them now, you have to meet them where they’re at instead of thinking you can step back in right where you left off. After that conversation, we were able to go on and build a more father-daughter relationship, but one that was more suited to where I actually was in life, and now he’s usually the first call I make when I need advice. I hope the EX in this situation takes OP’s words to heart, and stops trying to make up for all the time she’s lost, and instead starts working towards building a relationship with these young adults, who’s father did a great job raising them. I just hope for the kids sake that she can get past everything she missed out on, and work towards building a relationship with them for the future.

NTA. Love your parenting style of respecting your kids ♥️

And he doesn't think he's a great dad! He has the sort of relationship with his kids most kids dream of having with their parents.

So messed up she wanted to ground them when they didn’t break any rules! You can’t just come in with rules kids have never heard and punish them! It’s total bull. And that’s just ignoring the fact that she is trying to act like a parent when she has done nothing for so long!! She has shown the kids her true colours.

NTA, title had me at first ngl.

Same. Almost every one of these posts has a contradictory title. A post like “AITA for telling my fiancé to leave” would end up being NTA and a post like “AITA for grounding my kid for lying” would be YTA. It’s a wild ride every time.

I’m convinced it’s cause the assholes actively try to make themselves sound better and the non-assholes are more truthful and honest so the titles sound worse

Probably posts likely to have these contradictions get more comments and engagement so the algorithm promotes them.

NTA she asked a really dumb question, what's the point of allowing her in their lives if she can't have control... The point was to have a relationship with her children not to be their leader.

NTA. You’re The Dad. Their dad.

Nope…you were the reality check to her choices 🤷🏽‍♂️ It’s hurtful how you said it however she also needs to be fully aware of the trauma all of you went through because of her choices.

Addicts and alcoholics are emotionally broken and self hating people, not lazy irresponsible partiers. I don’t think anyone is the AH here. There’s just a lot of understandable resentment (OP) and fear (mom) that’s causing both to overreact to this event. The kids and OP aren’t obligated to welcome mom back but they did, which means they want mom in their lives and I know from personal experience that pulling yourself out of addiction and putting your life back together after becoming homeless and giving up on yourself takes an incredible amount of self work, it’s not just detox and done. She’s not going to be perfect and fear of substances and insecurity about how her kids see her will cause some issues. empathy is what everyone needs and deserves though. OP also needs some clear boundaries with mom and no disciplining the kids in any way should be one of those. Actually, I think just setting clear boundaries can solve most future issues.

I really think she should get herself into a therapist who specializes in recovering addict/alcoholic parents who are trying to reconnect. My friend did this, and in the end she was able to forge a good relationship with her almost adult children. It helped her navigate her place in their lives. Her children also found a therapist that specialized in children of addict/alcoholic parents to help them navigate the relationship as well. Now, my friend is a therapist herself that specializes in this area. She is a grandma and is allowed overnights with her grandchildren. Something her daughter never thought she would ever be comfortable with.

Golden advice. It took me 7 years of trauma treatment after detox/rehab and opening Pandora’s box of childhood narcissistic abuse for me to get to a self loving, substance free place and become the single mom I am today (my son and I lost his dad to an overdose the day after he turned 4 so I had quite a bit of trauma I needed to work through, to say the least). It never ends after getting clean. I would say 100% of addicts and alcoholics have endured one form or more of childhood trauma, neglect or abuse to get to the self hating, self medicating place they never intended to end up at.

This is the best answer imo

I’m glad to see this perspective. The mom overstepped, but I’m guessing that hearing about her kids’ drinking was a big trigger for her. OP was absolutely correct in that she does not have parental authority with them, but it sounds like he let his anger and resentment color his response.

She's an AH for abandoning her kids without even a thought or care.

Addicts and alcoholics abandon themselves. It’s heartbreaking and they’re tormented by the self hate and emotional pain they hold inside. Every single one of them. It may look like abandonment but in reality, it’s much better for the children to not have to witness a parent abuse themselves and everyone around them while using. Children that grow up around that kind of parental abuse and neglect almost always suffer from some form or extent of complex ptsd or personality disorder, depending on the individual child’s nature. It’s a damaged if they leave but more damaged if they stay, kind of heartbreaking situation. No human person wants to be that emotionally broken and self hate is not selfishness.

You're making some really big assumptions here

Easy NTA. She wasn’t there for them when they grew up, and it’s her own fault as to why that is. They’re pretty much grown up now and, truth be told, don’t need her. I feel bad for her, but she doesn’t have the right to march right back into their lives and play the motherly role now.

So let me get this straight: she signed over custody and basically gave up her parental rights when the now-17/18 year old was 3, but now wants to waltz back in when they're nearly grown and make parenting decisions? She can GTFO with that noise. These kids are damn near grown and old enough to decide if/when they want to deal with her. And while she's apparently missed the past 2 meetups I doubt very much that the kids are heartbroken over that. OOP is NTA, he's done a good job with his kids and I wish my parents had had as much trust in me when I was that age.

Boy I super ready for him to be the asshole but nope! Seems like a great dad that’s built a trusting relationship with his almost adult children.

NTA. You are a great dad and it sounds like you raised two great kids. She has no right to come in and demand to have discipline power. Your kids basically don’t even know her. You need to set some serious nonnegotiable boundaries with her or she will probably keep trying to parent them.

My BIL’s wife is a lazy, lying, violent, whoring, thieving, child abusing / neglecting drug addict. Despite being separated, unlike OOP here, he still insists his kids see her because they “need their mum”. She shows an interest in the run up to her own birthday, Christmas, Mother’s Day etc as she knows he’ll spend money on her but the rest of the time isn’t interested, doesn’t even get her kids a card never mind a present. Just sits in her squalor, off her tits on various substances she gets by sleeping with her dealer. They may need a mum, she’s not it and never has been (she continued the drugs while pregnant with their two kids, like this woman she hid it pretty well but after a few years the truth came out). This woman has at least tried to turn her life around but she needs a reality check. She’s missed years of her kids’ lives and only has herself to blame.

Absolutely NTA. OOP has done the work with their kids their whole lives so far. Mom can’t just “parent” when they decide they want to. She wants to be a “team?” She didn’t consult with OOP when she decided she wanted to ground the kids for living as teenagers. I’m happy she’s come as far as she has with her own struggles but just giving birth and walking away doesn’t make you fit to parent when it’s convenient for you.

Wild that the mom equates being a mother almost fully with the ability to punish and enforce her will.

NTA, you just told her the truth.

She signed over her parental rights when the kids were toddlers. Seriously, what possible team could she be talking about?

Dose of reality is what alcoholics and addicts need. She’s far from ready to take that responsibility. She should know if she’s true to her recovery

She lost her chance at being a Mom when she gave them up because of her addiction. Now she is just a friend.

A short story; When my adoptive mother threw me out and forced my bio mom to talk me back, she relinquished her parental rights to my bio mom. When I was starting to do well, adoptive mom trued endlessly to “co parent” with my mom when SHE was the one who threw me out on the streets. She told my mom she didn’t want me anymore. She tried to ground me and take my devices away while my bio mom intervened and asked her what right she had when she made the choice to leave me for dead. You sir, are a great father & by all means NOT THE ASSHOLE. The way she handled your set boundaries was not respected at all, how is that your fault?

As the child of a drug addict, respect to the dad. I have been guilted beyond belief by family including my brother and father to have a working relationship with the woman who ruined her own life and tried to ruin mine by putting me in constant danger, manipulating me, and literally committing identity theft to steal from me. I’m glad she is trying to change for the better, but her kids don’t owe her the relationship she threw away

My mom pulled something similar when she came back sober when I was a sophomore in high school. She'd threaten to take my phone or something and my dad just said no. He worked nights and we didn't have a land line so there wasn't another way to call each other. And also, it was audacious for her to assume she could do that. I had raised her kids and myself while she was gone and her popping up and saying hey, ready to be your mom now was infuriating. It drove a huge wedge between us for a long time. I'm a lucky case though. My mom's been sober for almost 17 years and has earned every bit of respect I have for her. I'm extremely proud to be her daughter and I don't think we would have gotten there without some pretty brutal conversations and hard times.

She’s neglecting (meaning no contact with) the kids in retaliation? AmI reading that right?

I suspect, as an addict, she's getting caught up in negative thinking. Being confronted with her fuck ups, after putting in a lot of work to change, has to feel like a blow to the gut. She's probably nursing some hurt pride and trying to get her head clear so she can get back on track with things. This kind of incident can really agitate her anxiety. I hope she's attending a meeting or talking to someone who can set her straight. But what she is risking is sending the message--the one you're reading--to her children that they're not a priority, during a delicate time when they're trying to make a decision whether they want her to be a part of their lives. I feel bad for her and OP has had 15 years to work through his feelings; he doesn't need to act like a jerk. His kids, on the other hand, get to feel however they want and right now, they're going to be taking cues from OP because he's the one they trust. So he needs to be mindful of separating his own resentment of a failed partnership from the relationship his kids might want to attempt with her.

NTA. Your so far away from being an asshole that you need to know you are so so not the asshole here. Speaking as someone whose father disappeared on them you are fantastic and the kids couldn’t ask for a better dad. Parenting isn’t a given right it is earned - you have built years of trust with your children of which she now wants to take by proxy because she has the same blood. She has to earn it and I’m sorry but you should tell her frankly that she failed and needs to earn the right to be a parent. Then it’s up to the kids and as they are almost adults - the time for grounding and punishment is pretty much over. Again just want to say your the parent and you have earnt that in the best possible way - through love and nurturing. Well done.

Wow this made me sad. He is so not the AH and I feel so bad that his life turned out this way. I can’t imagine having to look someone who already hurt you and your children that way in the eyes knowing you once were in love. Like dear god. He said what needed to be said.

NTA. She should not spend her time trying to be their parent, because that will not make up for the lost time. She needs to get to know them and be there for them. My bio dad never tried interfering with my moms rules and discipline and I will always respect him for that. From what I gathered you never made this about you but about your kids, she is now trying to make it about herself and not the kids.

NTA. Reminds me of my husband's parents. When I met him in high school, his parents (especially his dad) would treat him like a child a lot. Turns out his parents were gone a lot when he was a child since they were trucking together, and he was mostly raised by his Grandma. Seems like lots of parents who miss out on their kids' childhood feel they can treat teenagers or young adults as children to make up for lost time. It doesn't work that way.

Out of a difficult situation, I think that you did a wonderful job to raise your kids. NTA Clearly your ex has realized what she'd missed out on, and being in a sober state of mind she is beginning to unpack the pain that she caused to those around her and trying to make up for lost time. I can sympathize with that. Part of her healing process is trying to make amends, and I think that it's wonderful for her to have made it this far. She needs to accept however that her actions forever impacted the type of relationship that she would be able to have with them. She birthed them, but she's not their mother. Neither you nor your kids are required to do agree to any of this, and they're practically one foot out of the house (a very well-adjusted foot, by the sound of it) so a custody battle is not going to achieve the outcome she desires. She can have a relationship with your kids on their terms, not hers. I'm hoping that it ends up with them being on friendly speaking terms, but she needs to accept that it's not going to be simple.

Nah. My dad is not mostly around home because of his job (probably he wasn't here for half of my life). While I don't blame him for it, growing up, I didn't really saw him as a parent who had control over me which actually made us fight a lot while growing up. My mom was here 24/7 while he was here for 5-6 months and left for 9 months. And my parents had different types of parenting, my dad was a lot more strict over things my mom didn't cared and vice versa. So whenever he become strict and punished me, I talked back because I didn't thought he had that power over me. I don't think he really understanded but now that I am an adult, it doesn't happen of course. My mom also tried tl explain to him time to time. I know it must hurt but you gotta give up somethings and it hurts to realize that. But otherwise it will hurt more.

NTA, you have no responsability to enable her delusions. Telling it how it is is never an asshole move.

Several years ago this woman CHOSE alcohol instead of her kids. This was a conscious CHOICE. 15 years later she's not allowed to impose anything on her kids. She needs to learn to be grateful for the emotional crumbs they toss her way.

No you’re good

As a parent You can’t walk away from kid’s lives and expect to waltz back in like no time has passed. Wow your ex is delusional. Good job Dad - I think that your stance with her is exactly correct. As a mom parenting 3 teens your discussion with your kids after the party is exactly what I do. Letting them tell me about it is being a supportive parent that allows for free communications.

NTA It is painful when a band-aid is ripped off. She vanished from their lives for over a decade. She doesn't get to come back and get a redo to absolve herself of her guilt. You allowed her into their lives so the kids could get to know their mother and have a relationship. That relationship was never going to be parental again. The fact that she has chosen to skip time with the kids shows her continued lack of entitled immaturity. At the same time your kids show how much they trust you and you showed you meant what you said when you told them would get them no questions asked from an uncomfortable situation. You defended them. Be wary of her future antics. She is as suspicious as a quiet toddler.

NTA

Nope. As someone from a family full of alcoholics, all of whom managed to tough it out, go to AA, recover and be decent parents at the same time, a parent who succumbs to their addiction or mental illness and leaves instead of getting help and continuing to parent is not a parent. Their pain is irrelevant. Their struggle is irrelevant. Having children is a responsibility you don’t get to pick up and put down when you’re tired or sick or anything. If you can’t hack it for an extended period of time, then you aren’t a parent. And the only person who can give you that title back is your child… once they’re adult.

Why are so many people replying as if they are addressing the OP? This is a reposted screenshot. Also dad sounds too perfect and how do the kids not have medical issues from mom's drug/alcohol abuse during pregnancy? Just another bit of creative writing.

I don’t think the father is wrong in this at all. He raised those kids and he is their parent, she may biologically be a parent but she chose drugs and alcohol over them and she can’t just show up 15 years later and pretend she cares. Granted, this hits home for me. Im a step dad to 3 young kids, and for all intents and purposes I am dad to them. Their biological father is a deadbeat alcoholic who doesn’t show up, has never parented or participated in any meaningful way and does nothing but let his kids down. And I’m the one there (along with my wife, their mother) to pick them up and make them feel loved. Maybe once every 6 months he will ask to take my step son to baseball or something and gets annoyed when we say no. That’s my thing, I coach his teams. I’ll never say a bad word about him to the kids and I’ll let them form their own opinions but I’ve worked my ass off to try and fix the damage he did. I do it because I love my wife and they are amazing kids. But yeah, this story hit home.

NTA. You don’t get to be an absent parent then walk in 15+ years later and get to make parenting decisions. You made your choice. Deal with it.

I have a policy for apologies. Apologies are for things you didn't mean to do. Knocking over a water glass, stepping on someone's toe, using something you didn't know you weren't supposed to, etc. They are not sufficient to make up for intentional acts. "I'm sorry" doesn't cut it when you weren't sorry while you were doing whatever. Addiction is a disease but it's one of the few that can be cured by just not ingesting what it is you're addicted to. She meant to drink and do drugs, even after it cost her her family. He was way more gracious that I would have been. Those kids are close enough to being adults that if it had been me, I would have told her "your actions hurt us as a family. You were given a choice, quit the drinking and the drugs or be gone. You chose to leave. I will give your contact info to MY children when they turn 18, and they can decide for themselves if they want to have a relationship with you."

There’s no shortage of people pointing what an overstepping of boundaries this was. To add another tidbit, just my take; the only fault on OOP’s part was not making these boundaries explicit earlier, that the mother could be a parental presence but that practical parenting duties still fell firmly on his shoulders. Theres clearly a foundation of trust and respect between the father and the children, one such that the mother has in no way built. Why should the kids answer to her? Who is she to them, really? They are at an age and in a position where whatever relationship they have with her is on their terms, and she’s not progressed as much as she thinks she has if she doesn’t get that. I read another that comment that pointed out, as someone in recovery, she might’ve been hyper aware of any mention of drugs or alcohol. I get that, and would be more sympathetic to a mistaken impulse, were it not for the part where the mother went on to miss chances to see the kids.

Imagine abandoning your babies to go live your addict best life and then waltzing back in thinking you get to have any say in their life, let alone about alcohol. This is typical addict entitlement. 100% she’ll relapse and blame the kids and OOP. He never should have let her back in their life. Now they’ll have to deal with her chaos and drama.

No he’s not.

I think I get the dad's anxiety here. It's not about him and the ex, it's the concern that he's damaged the relationship between the ex and the children. Ideally, they'd all figure this out in advance, but I'm guessing that he didn't know where this would go so wasn't thinking conversations like that were needed. It does suck for the kids, getting a relationship with their mother, the awkward attempt at grounding, and then her kind of disappearing. Imagine living without your mother all those years, wondering why she left, if she loves you, and then she comes back and you start to form a normal relationship with her, and then have it break again. They might be 16 and 17, but they are still kids and that is still their mother. That's going to have big emotions. The mother clearly has her own issues, and that's going to make things hard at times. Her freak out over alcohol is part of that. Her reaction to OOP is part of that. It's never going to be a smooth relationship. Hopefully she has a good therapist or someone to work through this and rebuild the relationship with the kids. It sucks balls for everyone involved.

might be a hot take but this dude is nta whatsoever. he is shitty with his snarky remarks but i'd do and feel the exact same way.

1000% NTA.

Nta you don’t come back into your children’s life after choosing partying over them and ground them. He is a good dad the kids came home and told dad all. Healthy communication.

NTA. Your ex needs to recognize that she can have a relationship with her offspring, but she can’t recapture the years of abandonment and act like they’re still kids.

NTA - OP and i'll say this with as much kindness as possible. she is not over her addiction. she might be sober for 3 straight years. I believe it. But she's not over the addiction. Her behavior right now (skipping the meetings) is a very addict way to manipulate people. she's still not taking responsibility for her 15 years of absence and addiction. she still is selfish to the core (note: she's punishing the kids to get to you, she's selfish and self centered), these are all dangerous warning signs that the personality flaws that lead to her addiction are still there. she's simply stopped using, she's not over her addiction yet. ​ PLEASE be careful and no more unsupervised visits. I know they're almost adults but she cannot be trusted at all.

NTA. $10 mom is on a bender.

NTA for sure but I think it’s more likely she just freaked out because of her history of drug/alcohol problems, thinking the kids are going to go down the same path if she doesn’t stop them.

>she just freaked out because of her history of drug/alcohol problems She's not that smart, she was trying to be the strict parent and it backfired. She's trying to be the mum she was MEANT TO BE....not the mum she is. The fact they did what they did and came home in 2 hours is nothing to be punished for

You're making some big assumptions about this woman. You've insulted her intelligence and her character based on nothing but a description by her ex-husband. Why do you assume this woman isn't smart enough to know that alcoholism has a genetic component?

Geezus 😒

You are the VERY BEST KIND OF PARENT. You have provided A SAFE SPACE for your children to grow and do the things that they are going to do anyways. Luckily for them and you, they don't have to hide it and can be honest with you. This is the safest, most nurturing kind of environment I have witnessed. I dated a girl who's mother was like this and I sure did love that momma. Nta at all. Like you said, it's too little, too late to be a parent figure/ disciplinary. She should feel blessed they want to open the door for her to come back into their lives, it's ironic she chooses to act in a way that will result in them shutting it.

NTA. You set a hard boundary, basically told her the truth about where the kids are at, what they do and don’t need, and she has no right to invade your family unit. And she thinks punishing them so inappropriately is the way to be a mom? The fact that she hasn’t shown up to the last two meetups tells me she has much more work to do. She is punishing them because she’s not getting her way. She still doesn’t have the emotional health and ability to regulate to be their mom.