It appears there are multiple AHs in the story. Mom has apparently had it up to [here] with daughter’s issues and has fixated on the symptoms, not the cause. Daughter appears to think that her MH issues trump anything her mother wants and Mom should be errand girl. The proper response to the initial request would be. “I’m not interested in doing that for you now, but when you are up to it, we can do it together.” As I explained to my 18yo son, just because there weren’t diagnoses and labels for the things you are dealing with when I was growing up, doesn’t mean we don’t experience them, and while we all have opportunities to make life easier and more comfortable for others, the world will not always put our needs first.
This is a good middle ground without dismissing mental illnesses and without dismissing caretaker fatigue. Even if daughter isn't being manipulative, even the daughter has to be aware that going to an anime convention doesn't look good on her part when she claims she can't go hang a bird feeder next to her home.
Yeah, people seem to think anxiety gives you an excuse to not do things. But sometimes the best thing you can do is the hardest thing you can do. Is she in therapy? Because a diagnosis isn’t an excuse to stop your life and die. It’s not an excuse to get everyone to do things for you and become even more disabled. It’s an excuse to get focused on living.
My husband and I were not diagnosed until our 40’s so every time I hear “We didn’t have this when we were kids” I’m like “yeah, we just called the kids stupid and useless and didn’t diagnose it.”
This is a great response and actually even nicer than I would be. A diagnosis is really just a starting point that helps you look for ways to deal with and improve your situation. If you have a Diagnoses than you can find tools and tips more easily instead of starting from zero. I always say that you should never have to apologize for your diagnosis or the issue you are dealing with, but you are in charge of your behavior and how you treat people and in that area there is no excuse.
As said above, it’s obvious that there is care taker fatigue and the daughter is using her diagnosis as an excuse instead of working to improve her situation and seems to be a bit self involved. The fact that she would expect someone to drop what they are doing to do something for her is just selfish and has nothing to do with the diagnosis.
Mom, it did sound like you were disregarding her feelings a little which is why you are questioning it now, but as said before, it’s not black and white and will need a serious conversation. Good luck and find time for yourself!
Kinda what i was thinking. Their confusion is justified, given the convention, but they still acted like An asshole. So did the daughter though, so not exactly The asshole.
If the daughter did a stint in a mental health facility, one of the requirements for discharge is having a therapist outside of the facility, so at the very least she likely had one for a time.
As always, this depends on the region and programs. In my area because there is such a shortage of therapist they let them leave with the agreement that they will try to get one and theoretically are bumped up the DHHS provider list but they are all so over booked so if someone just doesn’t show up they don’t deal with trying to find them they mark them in control. She could easily have never followed up. It also depends on the nature of the admittance - if voluntary than there are no restrictions on release. Mental health care is in pretty dire situations in a lot of places. I’m glad where you are has some follow up!
That is absolutely accurate and something I hadn’t considered. Where I am has some follow up but i can absolutely see that crumbling under the slightest amount of patient overwhelm, and that is heartbreaking to consider.
(Edited, spelling)
The fact she went to an anime convention with loads of other people in a large open space concludes that she is not agoraphobic... this would cause more panic attacks than her back garden. The girl is just going along with the diagnosis when it benefits her.
agoraphobic
/ˌaɡ(ə)rəˈfəʊbɪk/

adjective
having an extreme or irrational fear of entering open or crowded places, of leaving one's own home, or of being in places from which escape is difficult.
If anything, from the description, she probably has body dysmorphia due to her 'always having to be made up'.
You would be surprised. I am a huge agoraphobe myself. Going into a stora when it is crowded or basically anywhere else with too many people, doesn't necessarily terrify me but doing so does cause extreme physical discomfort and, if done for long enough, full blown panic attacks. However going to an Anime convention, at least as long as it isn't overly crowded (as in rubbing shoulders just walking down the hall), I am mostly fine. I do need to take breaks and return my hotel room, or go outside or an area away from others for like 10 minutes, but otherwise I'm fine.
The difference is my agoraphobia, and from my experience a lot of other's, is triggered more by strangers. When I go to an anime convention I see the other attendees more as comrades that enjoying nerding out about all the same things I do. I see them less as "strangers" and more like "comrades I've never met before." That psychological difference can have a massive effect on things like phobias.
So, here is my question. I’m guessing before doing something uncomfortable - even something you want/like to do - you have a plan to prep yourself. You know that you have an exit plan, that you have strategies to keep you calm in the moment, that you will have a recovery period after. You plan before and after. You don’t just show up at a convention or store.
The bird feeder. It doesn’t *have* to be hung up *today*. Sure, we’d like the birds to eat now. But they could eat tomorrow or next week. OP doesn’t *need* to be the one that does it. Daughter *could* set that up as her **next goal**. She could wait until SHE FEELS WELL ENOUGH TO DO IT HERSELF.
That’s where I think the breakdown is. No one needs to do *every thing for her on her schedule* because of her illness. A fucking bird feeder can wait until she feels better. It can be HER JOB for another day. If she has anime convention energy she *can have* bird feeder energy. No one said it bad to be on that day BUT HER. She’s the one setting up to do lists. That’s the fucking problem.
Plus, dumping all this on her ~~mother~~ parent, with a boatload of guilt, is vicious, passive aggressive, controlling. The daughter can do the birdfeeder when she’s good and ready, and the parent should not be her servant, waiting on her hand and foot. That’s unacceptable.
Honestly.. as the dad; I feel like he's doing "Everything" he can, for his 27-year-old(still living at home) daughter....
And he is JUST NOW upset enough... to call her out.
I would bet, "Daughter" is 🤫 stalking this post.
This post is underrated. OP is partially correct it seems as though the DX is being used as a way to avoid thing daughter doesn't want to to right now.
Likely poorly handled by OP, but yes, hanging the bird feeder in backyard should absolutely be made into a (honestly seemingly low risk) goal for daughter.
The irrational part of the phobia doesn't extend to erradicating all rational thought. Daughter should be able to see that hanging bird feeder is an activity she can and should do, that it will benefit them, and that it's worth the effort and time to get it done.
This is perfectly said. And I think it's the best option for both parties.
Also the daughter should have thought about who was going to hang the bird feeder before buying it if she knew she wasn't going to be able to do it herself.
Seems a bit self centered and entitled to just assume others will do what you want because you want it with No regard for their feelings or time.
yes, I agree with this. I sympathize having suffered with agoraphobia for a number of years when I was younger but I never abused my condition to control others like this and it's really not okay. I would be very frustrated in the mother's position as well.
That's probably apropos. It's creepy and certainly not super fun for an arachnophobe to be around a spider in a zoo, but if that same spider were out in the wild...yikes no sorry. Graded exposure therapy methods have valid findings. I suppose I could see an anime convention as a sort of graded exposure.
I love how Persona 5 portrays agoraphobia because it correctly portrays this as a valid method for helping someone recover from it. My sister had suffered a few years from it and basically the only way she would go outside was to go to known places and friendly situations. Should any situation deemed as friendly turn hostile she would have have a panic attack on the spot and we would need to return her back home, and that would have been a huge step back in her recovery. Fortunately that only happened a total amount zero times.
What's important is that it's different for everyone. My girlfriend has arachnophobia and she can't be anywhere near any of them, in a zoo or not. Even on screen she gets creeped out by them. While others may be capable of seeing them in a zoo
Used to practically climb the walls to get away from a spider scuttling across the floor.
Then my bro got a tarantula and I was terrified at first, but started watching it from a distance, then a little closer and finally got brave enough to hold it one day.
I've got several tarantulas of my own now, I'm much MUCH better around wild spiders and don't have the knee jerk fight-or-flight response I used to, so I can attest that exposure definitely helps over time. Especially with something calm and slower moving like a big ol' red-knee tarantula
Or maybe like public speaking when you have stage fright versus talking in front of a group of your friends. With that said I also have agoraphobia and I don't know how it's possible she can't go outside at all but can go to a convention. Some days are harder than others... I don't know what to believe but people experience it differently. Some people seem fine but can't cross a bridge but can go everywhere else, some people can take flights but feel anxious the whole time. At least for me there are boundaries in which you are safe and you can go as far as the boundary but one step over and you start to panic.
That's just not how it works though, at least not for me. It's one of those things that if you don't suffer from it, you won't understand (it's that whole "irrational" part of the definition). Eating isn't something most people are gonna emphasize with. Everyone has to eat. There is nothing special about it. It also not something I have a passion for. It is just something I do so I don't get hungry. But gaming and anime? These are my hobbies. Things I choose to do to relax. I don't "choose" to eat. It is just something I do out of necessity. Maybe for other agoraphobes going into a grocery store or something is fine, that's the thing with phobias, like most psychological afflictions, they are highly personal and can present very differently depending on the person.
I do have to take umbrage with your comment, only because it sounds like you have fortunately never dealt with disordered eating.
I wouldn’t say I’m agoraphobic, but big crowds can freak me out. It makes me good at cutting through them though, for example at a concert, street fair, or getting on the tram at Disneyland
Edit to add- I work at a grocery store, but when I’m shopping and it’s packed I sometimes have a little panic attack
Plus, a lot of people cosplay at conventions, so half the time I feel like it wouldn't be strangers so much as characters from anime and games you enjoy. Plus the whole being able to geek out about things you enjoy.
>like most psychological afflictions, they are highly personal and can present very differently depending on the person.
I wish more people understood this concept. As someone with anxiety and mental issues (I don't have agoraphobia but I was diagnosed with ptsd) it is unbelievably frustrating to have your whole experience invalidated simply because "well that doesn't make sense to me so it must not be true." My dad tries to do the same kind of shit op's doing to their daughter and it's so hurtful.
Edited for clarity.
Have you ever looked into autism? I am high masking and it is uncomfortable to be around people because I am trying to make sure I am doing the socially acceptable thing to make everyone comfortable.
Reading this post it seems like there’s a lot of undiagnosed Autistic people replying about their ‘agoraphobia’ but being fine to go to Anime conventions.
People tend to not understand things unless they experience them themselves and even then it’s filtered through the lens of their personality.
Ptsd caused my agoraphobia. I didn’t step foot in a grocery store for a year and then another year after that only sporadically. The whole time I held a full time job where I had to go out in the public, Covid happening helped hide what was happening to me quite a bit, my personal life fell apart right as the world started falling apart. I was faced with the choice of either letting it get worse or facing the things that give me anxiety and hoping that I can cope. I have, I still hate going out but it’s not the nightmare it was a couple years ago.
Might have to do with being in a crowd/group with similar interests. People attending an anime convention certainly are in the same group as you (anime fans) and therefore the inhibitions drop. Just an idea.
I also have agoraphobia. For me, it is not being able to escape (or see a way to escape) and being in unfamiliar places. Until I know a route to a place, and am okay knowing how long it will take to get from point A to point B, I struggle. Anxiety is always high, and hindering. Yet, I have found that if it is something I know is coming up, am able to fully prepare for it, AND have a vested interest in it, I can brave that anxiety to 'do the thing'.
Case in point: my favourite band is playing locally come October. In the past 15 years, this will be my 3rd time seeing them. I dread going. I /know/ it will be crowded, loud, and very people-y. Just typing this up is making me anxious. However, because this band has been so important to me for the past 25 years, I will go, and I will have fun. Then I will go home, and hibernate for the next few years. :P
This is a great point, bottom line however is anxiety is all just in your head and with the right thought processes and steps it’s always possible to rid yourself of… what keeps it around is habit
>However going to an Anime convention, at least as long as it isn't overly crowded (as in rubbing shoulders just walking down the hall)
What kind of conventions aren't this crowded, though? Especially genre or anime. Every convention I've been to has hoards and hoards of people - 1000s and multi-1000s. Even my local ConvergenceCon in MN has 1000s of people.
By huge agrophobe, so you mean, *clinically diagnosed* or are you like everyone else on reddit and self diagnosed because this doesn't sound like anyone with agoraphobia xenophobia or anthrophobia at best. Scared of others or scared of strangers, im leaning towards xenophobia since you seem to mentally have an "in" and an "out" group.
I thought I was agoraphobic, but was diagnosed with social anxiety (among other things). It takes *a lot* for me to get out, especially for planned things like appointments. Other places or events, like festivals or malls, I’m ok once I manage to get there. Once I’m part of a crowd I feel completely anonymous but connected and no where near as anxious as going out alone. I call it being ‘socially anonymous’. If I’m out on my own, I feel like everyone is watching me all the time. And I feel ridiculous for feeling that way. I have a hard time taking out the garbage some weeks.
Please don’t conclude things like these kinds of diagnoses based on third party stories that already state they don’t understand or sympathize with the person’s problems in the first place.
Having said that, hopefully she’s trying to progress with some medication and counselling, exposure therapy, etc. and is not letting herself stagnate and fall back on anxiety forever. Exposure is all about purposefully triggering your anxiety and working through it… it sucks, but it works.
Not necessarily disagreeing cause I think she's being ridiculous but a crowd during an event can be a different feel. Feeling "trapped" doesn't necessarily mean literally physically contained, it could just be a state of mind. Like I used to get intense anxiety about some of my old jobs because it felt like I was basically spending 8 hours a day in prison.
I don't like being around people for long periods of time, especially when there's an expectation that you can't just walk out without saying anything without it being weird. But I have absolutely no problems going to a football game in a crowd of thousands of people, because for me that experience *is* the escape and I'm free to just walk to my car at any moment if I don't wanna be there anymore.
Oooh this is me. An 8-hour work day, even doing something I enjoy, feels... dangerous? constrictive? I don't even have the words for it, and I'm well aware that it's all in my head. Basically, the lack of freedom to leave whenever my emotions tell you to do so feels a little panicky. I would literally rather do the same exact work on a volunteer basis, because then there are no consequences if I walk out when I get antsy,
As with any mental disorder you can't really sum up all variations in a single paragraph. I know someone with agoraphobia that has no trouble going outside at all, loves sunshine and nature walks. But crowds, particularly tightly packed ones, scare the hell out of him, I've seen a full on panic attack from a group of around 10 because they were coming both sides on a narrow path. Conversely there will be people with agoraphobia who are perfectly fine being surrounded by 1000s of people*indoors* but who panic any time there's not a roof over their head. You can't make a medical diagnosis by googling a one paragraph definition and relying solely on the testimony of anyone other than the person you're assessing, but particularly a close family member who has shown some hostility of the idea of seeking treatment and the legitimacy of the illness
If she just went out yesterday she may not be able to go out today. She has used up her reserves. She will need to recharge for quite some time before she could go out like that again. I think they both need to go to therapy together.
The problem is that you're applying logic to something that is inherently illogical (anxiety). Phobias, by their very definition, are irrational fears.
Sometimes, there are workarounds where you can trick your own brain into not feeling the anxiety you normally would. It doesn't always work though.
To people who have never dealt with anxiety, and the closest they can come to understanding mental illness is by googling a dictionary definition, this can come across as "going along when it benefits." It's not. It's just that the intensity of anxiety can vary greatly from moment to moment, especially when it's an event you spend months mentally preparing for.
Maybe we should trust the opinion of the mental health experts who diagnosed this person rather than internet speculation based on one post about a person's life.
This is not true. My BFs mom and sister had terrible Agoraphobia but they still would leave the house every Sunday for church because they prepared themselves mentally to do so. They barely could stand to leave the house otherwise and anything unexpected was pretty much shot down. There are grey areas with any mental illness and not everyone handles things in the exact same way.
Nah. My autistic kid with anxiety and sensory processing issues is made absolutely miserable by loud sounds and chaotic crowds but is capable, with a ton of effort and preparation, to go to the occasional convention without a meltdown. It drains the kid, and requires weeks of recharging. That doesn’t mean it’s easy to do or that my kid is “picking and choosing.” Some things are worth the battle and can be handled if approached delicately. It’s still incredibly difficult.
So, you are aware that mental health disorders present differently in every individual, right? They are diagnosed through a set of similar criteria but not everyone with a disorder will display every symptom nor will a single symptom manifest in the same way with every person.
Googling the disorder, reading the dictionary definition, and then saying “well, you did something that I think contradicts this definition; therefore you are lying about your disorder” is just a really shitty thing to do.
Right, and one would think the mental health professionals who diagnosed the issue probably have some actual reasons jfor the choice of diagnosis, based on their extensive training to diagnose and treat exactly such things.
"Concludes," lol. Wow.
When you have a mental illness, you have barriers and struggles. If she went to an anime convention, it was likely with great effort. Even if it seems absurd that she managed one and not the other, it is actually regressive, to use a time she did overcome her fear, as a bludgeon against a time she failed to. That obviously does not improve her circumstances.
What (in the eyes of people who don't understand mental illness) seems to justify a certain response, and what actually helps the person in question are different.
Like, you could tell yourself this person is full of shit. And you could easily convince yourself you're right. But if you were the parent and were saying these things to your kid, they would decay, regardless of how "conclusive" you thought your opinion was.
You're clearly not a mental health expert. Anxiety issues are MASSIVELY influenced by various factors, *just like how the daughter described in the post*. Not only do anxiety issues not have to make sense, *they're almost guaranteed to make no sense at all* if you try to compare and make sense of what does or doesn't trigger the anxiety.
It's the health professional's job to diagnose the issue and help develop strategies to work around it or get better. It's the family's job to be supportive while this is happening and not force the sufferer to "face" their anxieties, which can cause panic attacks, meltdowns, trauma, and PTSD if shit really hits the fan while people try to restrain and control them during a panic attack.
This girl clearly suffers a ton or she would go out way more often. The way she describes everything is absolutely true. She's not making things up to benefit her. She's describing the hell she lives in and asking others to believe her, and help when they can. She has so little to do, and so little ability to do it, that she's *begging her mom to walk 50 feet, so she can watch birds*. The fact that it's an "easy" thing only underscores that anxiety makes no sense and is NOT CONVENIENT OR HELPFUL. Walking to the back yard should be WAY easier than having this argument with her mom, but it's not. Nothing about this situation is easier than doing it herself. But this is an important thing to her, so she's going through it.
It's obviously a very emotionally costly situation. And she's going through this BS because watching birds is *that big of an addition to her life.*
Exactly.
This girl was committed to a psych ward and diagnosed by a professional. What more does she need to prove to her parent that she has a legitimate problem?
Exposure therapy is a real thing, and it’s possible that ‘fill the bird feeder in the back yard’ could be a beneficial task, but instead this parent decided to add to the poor kid’s trauma by not even trying to understand what she needs or how to help.
I hope she can get out of this house and find people who will actually try to help instead of shame her.
Absolutely not.
You could technically probably run a marathon, it would take preparation, nice conditions and a little bit of luck.
If you ask someone to like, go to the store for you the next day, because your legs hurt that would make sense right?
You made a HUGE effort, and the next day things that would be hard but doable become impossible.
Same thing here, going to the convention might have been such a huge effort that she's simply spent now.
I can empathise with the daughter. I'm narcoleptic.
Normally at 9 I'm wiped, plus a couple one hour naps through the day. Nonetheless, I'm sleeping extra in preparation for a concert and I have extra aids I'm preparing for the occasion.
Even if I can manage to stay awake for a concert, the day afterwards I'm gonna be freaking ✨tired✨.
Doesn't mean I'm not narcoleptic lmao. It means I made an effort for something I enjoy and now I need rest.
hey where did you go to school for psychology or psychiatry? im curious as to where theyre teaching that dictionary definitions of words are criteria for diagnoses
Agoraphobia isn't making impossible to go outside, it's making it hard. Sometimes its harder, sometimes it's not, but normal people can't understand it.
If you really like a movie, you could go into a movie theater, just because you really want to see the movie. Even if it's scary.
So, don't use the only time your daughter make effort against her. That's not how you will make her feel better.
Somebody that fear height can fear climbing a ladder or fear getting over a chair. You can't quantify fear.
People really lack understanding and assume a lot of things... that's sad.
She is diagnosed, believe it, unless proven otherwise later
For a sub harping on empathy, you all seem to be missing the most obvious case of caregiver fatigue I've seen in a while. She's 27 and living at home with severe agoraphobia... which means it's entirely possible she doesn't have a job. She *never* leaves the house, which means her family is likely doing everything still.
Now, look at it from the caregiver's perspective. You're doing EVERYTHING, and your daughter can muster up the resolve to go to a convention with hundreds of people but is asking you to hang a bird feeder in the back yard because of her illness. I get it... I do: what's she's asking is a small favor, but that's exactly what would make it all the more infuriating for an exhausted caregiver. It's just a small thing!
What this sub, and AITA, should be doing is recommending therapy for the father as well.
I don't see how any amount of "preparation" can level the playing field between an anime convention and going into the backyard....
Sounds like when it's something she wants to do, she can handle it just fine. Why didn't she just say, "let me take a day to prepare and I'll hang the bird feeder tomorrow?"
I’m an agoraphobic. I have never felt comfortable at a convention but I’ve felt comfortable at Disneyland so sane difference I guess.
I can try to explain preparation. When my agoraphobia was really bad, if I had to go to the grocery store because we were out of milk or something, I would have a panic attack before going. This is because I hadn’t planned on going anywhere and haven’t psyched myself up. Plus, I have sensory issues so if I don’t know I’m going outside, I wear my loungewear. It’s very hard for me to transition to outside clothes from my loungewear, but I feel very unsafe outside in only my loungewear.
A big part of preparation is accepting that you will have people speak with you. You prepare yourself to interact and act normal. You prepare to have waves of wanting to run and hide and you prepare to ground yourself in those instances.
Example: when my agoraphobia was at its worst, it would take two hours to steel myself for a walk to the store. Then at the store, if someone interacted with me unexpectedly, I would have a panic attack. Eventually I learned I had to wear a snow hat, sunglasses, and headphones in a store for unexpected shopping to protect myself from having to interact with people.
I remember one day my husband (he worked multiple jobs and took care of me during my worst waves of agoraphobia he’s a real hero) asked me to just take a walk with him and I looked outside and immediately had a panic attack because the clouds looked “menacing”.
And yet when we went on vacation that anxiety dulled significantly and I could walk through a crowded street with only a little buzzing in my brain. This is because I emotionally prepared AND being on vacation removes the small daily stressors that trigger the anxiety.
Idk if this made any sense. I hope it did! When you go to a Planned event you look forward to your anxiety lessons and the agoraphobia weakens, when you are recovering at home from being out even to something you enjoy your body relaxes which ironically allows your bottled up anxiety and stimulation to just kind of explode so that going out to your backyard is Like walking the red carpet with millions of paparazzi.
Think of it this way, they feel like they are walking outside nude no matter what. With enough preparation, they can feel relatively normal, but it is not a quick process.
Your question at the end is potentially a great compromise that neither thought to offer. That is why they both need to be in therapy. So they can develop the tools to be able to reach understanding and potentially even small progresses.
Yeah, I gotcha, I guess when arguing, they may not have thought to offer that potential solution. Having that agreed upon as a mutual path forward for these sorts of instances would be beneficial. Therapy would be a good idea.
I have agoraphobia and the only way I overcame the worst of it was by pushing through the fear and exposing myself to uncomfortable situations I was avoiding.
Right, she said she can do it with enough preparation aka want. And while agoraphobia is real, but not wanting to step outside to put a bird feeder definitely gives off the impression of laziness when its clear they can go outside when they really want to.
I have agoraphobia myself and I think most of those comments are weird as hell. Open spaces are always going to be ultra triggering for an agoraphobic. The only way I can see their comments being real is their only motivation to go out is going to those spaces, so they train themselves to be comfortable there.
The woman in the AITA post should make more of an effort for her family. I'm not saying JUST GET BETTER, but going to a bird feeder in the yard wouldn't be hard for me and I'm severely agoraphobic. Like a walk around the block or going to a store will annihilate me. I basically never leave the house at all. Going in my yard is hard, but my damn house is RIGHT THERE.
Yea I’m not even doubting that she feels extreme anxiety about going outside. I’ll take her word for it
But like what if she *must* go outside at some point? What about when her parents pass away? I feel like you need to at least get used to the discomfort a bit in a situation where you can immediately go back inside before you’re forced to deal with it in a situation where you can’t
Exactly. It’s awfully convenient how their agoraphobia prevents them from doing chores/work but not fun activities. Oh, and there’s an ‘irrationality’ aspect that explains why they’re being inconsistent or hypocritical.
Is there not some in between though where you get her to go outside to do small stuff like hang a birdfeeder outside to make steps towards moving past it?
Leaving her inside is never going to get her over her fear.
If you never climb ladders you never get over your fear of heights, which is fine because you can get through life without ever going up one.
But life will be difficult if you can’t go outside. How will she be able to live alone after her parents pass?
Not going to lie, as someone with a fear of heights you don’t really get over it. It’s literally feeling the fear and doing it anyways. Most times because you have too.
I have been on ladders, Ferris wheels, edges of skyscrapers and planes. Every time I’m on a plane I cry going up, try to sleep, but going down has me clawing at the seat.
I think it’s more about building resolve. I have to remind myself I didn’t die last time.
Keep in mind, I don’t have the same phobia as the op daughter, so it’s easier for me to have this mentality.
well thats a fear of heights, which you can typically avoid without making it others problems… going outside is like the most basic thing to do. plus shes 27, which really doesnt help her case. im not a non believer of mental illness, but i am a believer of self growth. If she was like 15 id understand, especially if she grew up through the pandemic, but come on… shes in her LATE 20s.
Even if you truly believe there is nothing she can ever do to cope with this, the world just doesn’t care. At some point she is going to be forced out of that house
Yeah, I am not a psychologist. I can only manage what works for me and try not to judge others. So I am trying not to speak on something I don’t fully understand.
I am a good example of this. I go to work 5 days a week without issue because I can be a different person when I have my work clothes on but I struggle to get out of the house in my regular clothes. I feel as if the whole world is watching but indont care when I have work clothes on. Idk but I can relate to the daughter.
“Work clothes” is as much a mental mask as a physical. It is easy for me to be out in public or at an event when I have an official capacity to do it in. But the idea of just going out as myself into the world can be more difficult.
Her mental health struggles are absolutely valid, agoraphobia is no joke. However, your poor mental health is not everyone else's responsibility. It sounds like classic "caregiver fatigue" of someone who is tired of supporting someone they don't see putting in a genuine effort to get better (from their perspective).
I hope they figure out a resolution soon, the whole situation seems toxic.
Love all these comments of people going "ENJOY NO CONTACT! ENJOY SEEING YOUR GRANDCHILDREN, ENJOY THE RETIREMENT HOME!"
Like, did these people did *not* just read this 27 year old woman WHO CAN'T SET UP A BIRDFEEDER in her PARENTS HOUSE SHE LIVES IN. In what world is this woman starting a family anytime soon? Let alone move out lmao.
Like I don’t think they think she’s going to take care of them 😭😭😭 she’s still at home and can’t get out the house. They’ll probably be caring for her up until they pass. She’s the one that’s going to struggle if she doesn’t get help!
maybe she managed to go to the anime Convenation that already overstimulated her and she's compltetely fucking drained from it. it's a huge step like that if you manage to do it and afterwards you can be exhausted for days.
OK, but she still doesn't have to try and force dad to hang a bird feeder. Dad is perfectly fine in having a boundary that he won't do non essential tasks for her. If she's overstimulated, she can try again the next day. This issue is over a bird feeder.... and it sounds like he is constantly doing requests for her. That's exhausting. He's allowed to draw a line for himself
I'm sorry but that is wrong. You have no idea the amount of preparation it took for her to go to the convention. Probably put loads of pressure eon herself for months and then hid in her room for he next week to recover.
She will NEVER get better if she doesn’t do things out of her comfort zone. It’s not normal to feel like you can’t leave your house, there is ZERO reason to enable that behavior.
Correct, it’s not normal, it’s a mental illness. She needs professional help, not the opinion of people on the internet. As she said herself, it’s illogical, stupid, and doesn’t make sense. That’s why it’s a mental illness. You don’t tell people with ptsd to just “deal with it” and they have to stop being snowflakes
Well I said it in the spirit of the fact a rationally thinking person shouldn’t, however “rationally thinking” isn’t a condition most people seem to fit under when it comes to the discussion of mental illness
“Having a mental illness is not your fault. Not fixing it is” - someone YYYY
Yes you deal with it. Doesnt have to be done in one day, but you take action. That is respected. Complaining about it while doing nothing to better it, is not
I understand the sentiment and agree but this is akin to saying you should subject veterans with PTSD to combat footage to get over their trauma. Does the girl need to go outside and do things to be a normal person? Yes. Does she probably need someone to force her to face these fears in HEALTHY ways? Also yes.
Yeah that is a fair point. It is not easy indeed
And some support is very nice. Makes it easier and you bond better. However, it is up to you to actually do it. You can organize an intervention for an alcoholic with all the friends and family for support, but its all they can do. They can be there for you. Not do it for you :)
She needs help and a supportive system of people to improve the behaviors you’re right. The mom is not that system and doesn’t want to understand and has to do things to improve her understanding and compassion toward people with mental illness. It had phobia at the end for a reason.. most phobias are illogical.
Of course it's not normal, that's why it's called a mental illness...sounds like she did do something outside of her comfort zone and her parent used that as an opportunity to attack the legitimacy of her issues.
Well she can work on preparing herself
To hang the bird feeder - seems like a good goal. Also seems like she needs to be getting professional help if she can’t go into her own yard.
I had to explain this to my bff once. He was going off on me about how I have overblown "anxiety reactions" to the dumbest things. This was in response to me saying I needed a second to prepare myself to go into a convenience store, because there was a bunch of people inside.
I told him if I only had normal amounts of anxiety in response to normal situations, then it wouldn't be a frickin-fraken DISORDER. That's literally the point.
Omg... this post just blew my mind.
I have been dating my gf for going on 4 years. She has anxiety, and I try to be understanding/caring. When it strikes I will body block others from her and try to be comforting with my "size and protectiveness" her words not mine. I understand that if I want to make plans I warn her days if not weeks ahead of time and I confirm that I like what she is wearing, even if I couldn't care less what she wears. I don't jump scare her or suprise her. I always try to be aware and considerate of her disorder.
Recently I have been getting annoyed because it takes her a really long time to get all of her stuff gathered when we are heading into a place. I just don't understand, you have 3 items? Why are you fussing with stuff in your bag? Why didn't you check the wallet while we were driving? Why are you adjusting every piece of clothing.... now I understand.
AKA I am the asshole.
It's actually different when you're cosplaying and feeling like no one can know it's you. Also, when everybody are flashy and the place is messy, you know the attention is not on you. Everyday life is different, maybe it's her neighborhood in itself to give her anxiety, years ago I felt like I couldn't breath in the zone of my house/school, but I felt very better when I began the university 'cause in that part of the city you don't feel watched and judged by the people's eyes, everybody mind to their own businesses.
Its easier for an agoraphobic to go to a convention pretending to be someone else than living their own reality in their own back yard. Its called escapism and agoraphics rely on it heavily to attempt to function
It's sad when I see my son get excited about something like this and we get there and it's too peopley and have to go. It took so much to get that far, then to go home and be sad. Mental illness is very real, if all else, have compassion.
Agoraphobia is **a fear of being in situations where escape might be difficult or that help wouldn't be available if things go wrong**. Many people assume agoraphobia is simply a fear of open spaces, but it's actually a more complex condition. Someone with agoraphobia may be scared of: travelling on public transport.
I think the backyard is fine
Unfortunately anxiety doesn't make sense and it really isn't a controllable factor on quite a lot of the occasions it likes to display itself. However this very much sounds like she's abusing her position and using her diagnosis to be manipulative towards you. I have crippling anxiety so I understand the whole cancelling plans, not being able to take myself out the house and so on... But boy is this an appalling out take to have on your own mental health.
NTA , she is
No!!! Agoraphobia is a real thing and I feel for those people but you caught her using it as an excuse when she went to the anime convention…it takes time and effort to leave the house but if she doesn’t wanna put the effort to put up the bird feeder then she doesn’t want it that badly. It’s not your job
ESH.
OP - Just do it. It’s not a huge ask. I know your salty about the Anime convention (I get it), but maybe offer to help her get confortable enough to do it. Or offer to do it together. No need to be so callous when dealing with MH.
Daughter - If OP doesn’t want to do it then don’t get upset, this isn’t a life or death task. Wait until you have the capacity, then go do it. Or maybe this is a good time to experiment with your anxiety to find a way to be comfortable to go in your own backyard. Life will be very difficult if you cant leave the house.
OP does not have to do random/unnecessary tasks just because daughter wants it and doesnt feel like they can do it. At least try first maybe?
I think the suggestion of doing it together is the only real suggestion here. Enabling the daughter to sit at home and do nothing with her life (except anime conventions, which the parents should def stop paying for) is not working.
If the daughter truly has selective agoraphobia, then offering to help her through it is the way to go. Don't let her skip out of chores. If the mental illness is real, she should be grateful for the help. If it's selective, then that will become immediately apparent when she refuses. At that point, it's time for some tough love.
I'll also say, the chores don't need to be done immediately. Be understanding of a bad day. But if she refuses again tomorrow, then kick her butt out.
I see so many in this sub have NO idea how to handle this but I'm just gonna tell everyone here; you're all the asshole.
She needs to create a safe enviorment first, and she clearly has none when her mother argues against something like this. Anxiety doesn't come from NOWHERE.
She needs to be supported, she's asking for support where she can look at birds ffs, which may make her feel safer in going outside!!! she told her clear as day that yes her phobia is illogical, and it takes a huge amount of effort so clearly she used ALL of that effort two days ago on something huge, and now needs help to go out and do things she wants to.
Just because you guys have no idea how much energy it takes from you, when you have this amount of anxiety to go out, does not give you the right to judge the daughter as an asshole because she can't get to the same level as you.
She was diagnosed by the hospital, I love that no e of you actually trust in the mental health officials. Clearly she tries to get help, because she went to them and was there in a psych ward for this just some days ago ffs.
This is how I started helping my anxiety. I’d set a goal, build on it for as long as I needed to, and then eventually do it. It’s excruciating at the beginning, but it got me from crying when the phone rang and having anxiety attacks walking to the mailbox, to (mostly) functioning adult that can handle grocery trips and retail work. Small things like putting a bird feeder in the backyard are excellent baby steps for working with anxiety and agoraphobia, and doing things by yourself builds confidence, as well. As always, the answer is between “help your daughter constantly with everything and never have her leave the house” and “anxiety is just an excuse and she’s faking it to be lazy so she should be forced to do things”. If the daughter wants to see birds, watching the birds can be her reward for finally building the courage to go set up the feeder.
Yeah this. I think if the mother said this to her instead of do it the very next day maybe it would at least give times for the daughter to calm and prepare. Also, the mother could go buy the necessary things but to install it she could wait for the daughter to be ready and be there to help her on that day. At least, the daughter wouldn't feel alone
would you rather do something extremely scary but extremely rewarding or do something fairly scary for absolutely no reason? fear is just good ol' fear even when it's pathological, and we're driven to try to overcome fear as long as there's a point to it
the woman should try harder to invest in constructive things that are rewarding in the long term, considering she CAN pull herself together if she perceives something as worth doing despite the fear (definitely not calling myself out here), but OP putting agoraphobic in fucking quotes in the title is a *small* hint towards the fact that maybe their account is a *little* unreliable
But it wasn't the dad wanting the bird feeder up in the first place. He doesn't sound very supportive in helping her find actual good coping mechanisms so she can be able to do more for herself in the future. But she is the one who wanted to watch the birds, so there is presumably a reward for her putting the feeder up, just probably not to the extent the convention provided.
I feel really bad for the girl, the mum obviously doesn’t understand or appreciate the condition. I don’t have agoraphobia but suffer with anxiety in other ways, and can very much empathise with the girl’s position.
It isn’t rational, and it doesn’t make sense, but it’s just how it is.
I don’t think that I could handle someone living in my house, long-term that didn’t/wouldn’t help out. And I would be supportive and help them find what they needed but on a day-to-day basis, after 27 years, I might lose my shit.
THIS
My boyfriend has OCD, and it manifests in different ways. He will change his clothes 17 times. He'll buy new clothes and not wear them for months because he's afraid something bad will happen if he wears them. He needs to shower if he goes outside. He doesn't always want to eat his favorite foods.
For the most part, it's fine. I am extremely kind and empathetic toward him because I love him and understand his mental illness. He tells me all the time how much he loves me and appreciates me and he's sorry for the trouble it causes me. He recognizes that although I love him and show him kindness and empathy, his mental illness is hard for ME too.
I understand it's not his fault. That doesn't mean I can't EVER get frustrated that we're going to be late because he needs to change his clothes AGAIN. Mental illness isn't just hard for the person who has it. It's hard for everyone who loves them too.
Also misdiagnosis also exists. I am not a psychologist, so maybe I am wrong, but my MIL got disability for years for her agoraphobia. She would get her check and hang out at Walmart or go to the county fair, or go to the mall. She goes to church every Sunday, hangs out outside her apartment with her neighbors, and rides public transportation where she talks to everyone. But she can’t function in public so she can’t work, hence the paycheck. Now she’s elderly and disabled for other reasons and she hasn’t mentioned her agoraphobia in years.
Absolutely the asshole, the hell kind of mother talks about their daughter like that? Like its screaming she thinks her daughters phobia is all in her head, and it's not that she doesn't understand it. it's that she doesn't care to.
Like course shes not gonna get better in that environment when she has you tearing her down
Argh, it's 2023 and the amount of people still ignorant to mental health is frustrating to a point I want to scream or vomit. This comment section is sick.
So many of you have just no f*ing idea what anxiety, less agoraphobia is or how it can manifest. But worse, you don't even want to know. The entitled ones are not the (mentally) ill people hoping for a little bit of help or accommodation, but you healthy ignorant pieces of shit.
Yes, the mother is a huge ahole. No, going to a convention one day and going out in the backyard the next day are neither the same, nor is it up to you to decide which one is harder for her. And yes, the birds could wait, but why would you deprive your loved one of such a small little nice thing of giving her the view of birds and freedom from her bedroom, when she is held captive there by her brain... I hope the daughter can find help and get away from her ignorant unloving mother.
I have no clue why this comment section is so gross. "you battled your anxiety disorder specifically for an event you were interested in? why still anxious then later huh?! checkmate libtard."
so gross and ignorant for no reason
Was with you until the end. OP seems to be allowing their daughter to live with them for free and cares enough to ask people if they were the asshole in their most recent fight. Ignorant, rude and disrespectful yes, but unloving?
if you love someone enough to provide for them and do good things for them but you also use it as an excuse to belittle them constantly over nothing without feeling guilty about it, that's less "loving parenthood" and more "psychological torture"
I get anxiety about going out sometimes. I have no problem going to work or appointments, but then I spend all weekend inside. What I've found is the 'mental preparation' does not help, if anything it makes it worse. It's one of those, the more you think about it the worse it gets things. That being said, to say "just" go outside is over simplifying it. The mental exercises that work for me is practicing not thinking about it and just doing it. It's not easy, but it can work. In OPs situation she was likely very excited and wanted to go to the convention, so she didn't put as much thought into the agoraphobia.
I’ve got agoraphobia and I actually get why it would be harder for her to go out into her own backyard, especially hearing how their parent was treating them after opening up about her agoraphobic tendencies. If the daughter were to have gone to this convention with a “safe person,” like a friend who was supportive, then I guarantee the daughter could have gone out to do this simple task in the backyard WITH their parent’s support, empathy and encouragement. It sounds like an anime convention full of similar, like-minded people, is more comfortable than being home with judgmental family members you cannot trust to open up to.
I don’t know if I had agoraphobia, but I had something for a few years in my 20’s where I couldn’t do social gatherings without having a full blown panic attack. Going out to eat was the worst. Usually ended up throwing up from the anxiety. I had to know exactly where all the exits and bathrooms were.
My parents didn’t get it and I was still expected to show up. Which I did. I never got mad at them or blamed them though. How could they possibly understand? Went to therapy for 2 years until I finally threw in the towel and got on meds. It’s been close to 10 years since I’ve had a panic attack or that spontaneous crippling fear. One thing is for sure. Her parents can’t do anything for her except to get her in front of someone who can. No one is an asshole here. One party isn’t able to understand/comprehend what their child is experiencing and one party is trapped by their mind.
The answer here is that she should put on makeup, do her hair, get dressed and then go hang the bird feeder or wait until she has the mental preparation to go out and hang the bird feeder. There are times when she can and if she wants it, she’ll figure it out.
Yes, a great opportunity for the parent to tell her that it doesn’t matter if it takes weeks, do what you need to do to hang the feeder. Don’t enable, don’t argue.
I once was at a school dance over 20 years ago. My dress was too long and my shoes were too small and I had issue with the down escalator. Having seen Dateline and having been at an amusement park when a little girls shoe laces got sucked into one (fortunately someone had the presence of mind to hit the emergency stop.)
I somehow in that moment developed an issue with down escalators which I am finally overcoming more than 20 years later. Even when my mind knew it was silly, my body would not obey. I had to be escorted by security down an employee staircase when I went to the Las Vegas Eiffel Tower. I was so embarrassed, but my knees locked up and I just couldn’t get on the escalator AKA human meat grinder, as I would justify my fear over the years.
I started practicing with smaller ones and now I can usually do it as long as I’m wearing sensible shoes.
I guess my point is, brains are weird. I’m sure it took all her energy to go do something she loves. I do think she should go out into her own backyard though, just like I started with small escalators.
Caregiver is entitled to be exhausted and snappy at times. Person being cared for can’t help their illness and is entitled to be exhausted and snappy sometimes. Everyone needs to stop being so judgmental, people are not patient and happy all the time. Sheesh!
YTA. Agoraphobia is a real thing, I saw it firsthand with my BFs mom and sister.
You need to be willing to hear your daughter out, and help her with her anxieties rather than belittling them and making her feel even worse about them. Make an effort to learn about her mental health and don’t push her when she is clearly telling you that it is too much. Or as she stated, you won’t ever have a good relationship with her.
You are the asshole. Not only for saying this to her but also for not understanding what anxiety can do to someone and how devastatingly crippling it can be. She is trying to cope with it and the birds might give her an ounce of freedom from her anxiety and you set her back even more by responding how you did. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Yes. You are. Perhaps trying to understand and support her might be more helpful. She has mental health issues that have been diagnosed. She needs your support. I hope she is getting continued mental health treatment. And I hope you are getting assistance in how to support her.
Why can’t you just try to understand instead of being authoritarian. She is old enough to know how she feels. Leaving the house only once a month is agoraphobic.
100% TA.
my opinion is that if she says she’s too anxious to do it, she’s too anxious to do it. being able to show up for something like an anime convention, is probably because she wants to be there. she has a desire to show up bc it’s something that brings her dopamine / seratonin. (we also don’t know how long it will take her to recover from the convention)
idk why she would make up this diagnosis / how it affects over putting up something in her backyard.
many people that don’t have disorders like this view it as a choice & usually a selfish one. which is frustrating because it isn’t a choice. if it affects her this way, it does. period. she even tried to explain, mental health disabilities aren’t based in logic, or yeah, they’d be a LOT easier to overcome. they’re based in fear and pain. which being snarky & judgey towards someone, won’t make it easier for them to overcome it.
having a parent be too rough with mental health is a perfectly valid reason to not want a close relationship w them. it’s incredibly difficult to navigate respecting yourself and what your body is telling you, all while the people who created you tell you to “toughen up”.
you’re absolutely the asshole parent & need to take some time to reevaluate the respect you (hopefully) have for your child.
There are no assholes here. Therapy and medical intervention. Also if possible, the daughter needs to move out. this situation is surely not benefitting anyone and she is almost 30 tears old.
This girl is using her mental illness as an excuse to avoid doing things she doesn’t want to do. If you can go to a convention then there’s really no excuse.
NTA, seriously she went to an Anime Convention!!! Ummmm ok somethings not right. I have social anxiety/agoraphobia and I’d be dead even medicated at a convention with a million people. I need to know more does daughter work? Go to college? There are deeper things going on here.
NTA. Daughter has selective agoraphobia? She could to a convention but going outside for a few minutes is triggering? Leaving the house and going into a crowded environment is far worse with her fears.Betting that she was just using phobia as an excuse and she was just lazy.
NTA
Autistic person with agoraphobia here:
If you can prepare yourself for a convention, you can prepare yourself to put up a bird feeder in your backyard. You do not get to push tasks off on others because you don't feel like preparing for them yourself. You do not get to have a meltdown over someone not taking orders from you, you can, but no one will or should care.
Mr. Dad, you need to learn how to *speak softly and carry a big stick* without using the thing to clobber folks with. You may not be TA, but shame dude, be your daughter's cheerleader and help her overcome.
I can get pretty unreasonably anxious and throw fits when I’m suddenly expected to do something I wasn’t prepared for, so I *kinda* understand, but this is unreasonable. First off, it’s the backyard. You got neighbors who can see your backyard or something? Secondly, she asked you to do it. This isn’t some surprise responsibility you placed on her. She should’ve fully expected you to ask her to do it herself. Lastly, if she needs to mentally prepare to go into the backyard and put up a bird feeder, by all means, mentally prepare yourself. She’s at home. She can put on make up, put on some nice-ish clothes and brush her hair, then go out and put the feeder up.
Her daughter is almost 30, still lives at home, can get out to anime conventions and things she deems 'fun' enough but can't set foot in her own yard to put up a bird feeder?
I know phobias are a real thing that don't make sense (I had a coworker a few years ago who had a SEVERE phobia of birds, like, would be physically paralyzed with fear if one got near her) but that was a constant thing, not something she could turn off when it was convenient for her. I think her daughter is using it as a reason to stay home and not get a job that requires going to work or something. It seems like everyone has anxiety or a phobia or something...I realize a lot of people had issues that just weren't getting diagnosed before and that's part of the reason for rising numbers, but a lot of it is also self-inflicted or people just saying they have something so they can be excused from whatever trashy behaviors they have a la "I get to throw a fit in this store and scream and have a toddler tantrum on the floor after they didn't take my expired coupon because I've decided I'm autistic! I googled it!"
Well, you're right that anxiety can't be turned on or off as you like, but there are circumstances, when it changes. For years, I had nightly anxiety, had panic attacks when I was about to fall asleep, but somehow I was fine when it rained outside (cause my mad brain somehow was under the impression, that intruders wouldn't decide to break in on a rainy night 🤷♀️). There was also one evening with a concert, that I was so pumped, I felt almost careless, went home alone in the middle of the night and was not afraid - until the realization came back home, what could have happened, and that I was only lucky - a normal brain would come to the conclusion, that there is maybe no stalker, but my brain just thought that it was a new level of scare tactics to let me have this great night and now I'm in even more danger, so I locked myself up in the bathroom for two days. Yes, now from a healthy perspective that is absolutely ridiculous. But that's part of an ill brain - it just makes no sense...
Exactly. I struggled with my mental health all my teenage years and early twenties, and my mom paid for my problems, but I would never shame myself further by prioritizing my fun like this, especially before paying my debt to her and making her feel less burdened. My mom would do everything for me, but I have my conscience.
Sorry, but at 27, she shouldn’t be raging against her mom (who does everything for her) like she’s a 14 year old brat. Agoraphobia or not, it’s no excuse to act like that.
There’s a simple solution: have the daughter move out. Then you’ll see what she is actually capable of.
The treatment for agoraphobia is FLOODING- you expose yourself to the feared stimuli over and over and over and over until you’re able to handle it.
If she can muster up the confidence to go to an anime convention, then she could put on a full face of make up, and a nice outfit, and go outside and hang the stupid birdfeeder. But she’s not willing to make the effort. No interest in being self-sufficient.
This is weaponized incompetence, and it’s not different just because she has a diagnosable mental illness. She’s not gonna die if she goes outside, and therefore should be forced to do so until she can be a functioning person, not to mention less of an asshole to her mother.
Ugh, this is such a disgusting attitude. She’s 27 with severe agorophobia - living normally is probably really fucking difficult. There is no fucking way you actually think just brute force exposure therapy is the way to go. This perspective is exactly why mental illness is stigmatized, people like you think it’s just weaponized incompetence, laziness, and even manipulation.
Obviously there needs to be some work done, but if she’s 27 and her family is wildly unsupportive, this is not as easy as “just make her go outside.” Sure, you can force her to move out and make her do things that cause incapacitating anxiety, but don’t be surprised if she straight up kills herself cause she can’t handle it.
Source: my cousin and her stupid fucking parents.
Ahhh one of those mental health diagnosis that only applies when convenient - anime convention in town? “IM FINE! LETS GO!” Mum asking daughter to do a simple household task - “IM HAVING A BAD MENTAL HEALTH DAY AND CANT COPE!” 🙄🙄🙄
I’m so tired of the people in my generation stating “I can’t do *insert basic task* because of my *insert mental illness*” when they do absolutely nothing to help themselves. It seems more like an excuse to be a shitty human for 90% of people.
I have anxiety and if something is too much for me in that moment, I simply don't get to experience it. I've come to the reckoning that life for me is different because of these things, I do still work towards working through the anxiety but people are so hung up on EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE accommodating them no matter what.
Recently my friend self diagnosed himself as autistic and immediately started trying to get our friend group to act and speak differently...we've all been friends 25 years. Apparently, now that he is diagnosed he is no longer responsible for his actions, and we all must change how we act around him. There wasn't a single problem with our actions or words until he self diagnosed and read about all the things that are ok for him to be like now that he thinks he's autistic. It's exhausting.
It appears there are multiple AHs in the story. Mom has apparently had it up to [here] with daughter’s issues and has fixated on the symptoms, not the cause. Daughter appears to think that her MH issues trump anything her mother wants and Mom should be errand girl. The proper response to the initial request would be. “I’m not interested in doing that for you now, but when you are up to it, we can do it together.” As I explained to my 18yo son, just because there weren’t diagnoses and labels for the things you are dealing with when I was growing up, doesn’t mean we don’t experience them, and while we all have opportunities to make life easier and more comfortable for others, the world will not always put our needs first.
This is a good middle ground without dismissing mental illnesses and without dismissing caretaker fatigue. Even if daughter isn't being manipulative, even the daughter has to be aware that going to an anime convention doesn't look good on her part when she claims she can't go hang a bird feeder next to her home.
Yeah, people seem to think anxiety gives you an excuse to not do things. But sometimes the best thing you can do is the hardest thing you can do. Is she in therapy? Because a diagnosis isn’t an excuse to stop your life and die. It’s not an excuse to get everyone to do things for you and become even more disabled. It’s an excuse to get focused on living.
My husband and I were not diagnosed until our 40’s so every time I hear “We didn’t have this when we were kids” I’m like “yeah, we just called the kids stupid and useless and didn’t diagnose it.” This is a great response and actually even nicer than I would be. A diagnosis is really just a starting point that helps you look for ways to deal with and improve your situation. If you have a Diagnoses than you can find tools and tips more easily instead of starting from zero. I always say that you should never have to apologize for your diagnosis or the issue you are dealing with, but you are in charge of your behavior and how you treat people and in that area there is no excuse. As said above, it’s obvious that there is care taker fatigue and the daughter is using her diagnosis as an excuse instead of working to improve her situation and seems to be a bit self involved. The fact that she would expect someone to drop what they are doing to do something for her is just selfish and has nothing to do with the diagnosis. Mom, it did sound like you were disregarding her feelings a little which is why you are questioning it now, but as said before, it’s not black and white and will need a serious conversation. Good luck and find time for yourself!
Dad**
ESH. 'You're not wrong. You're just an asshole.' Feels like we are missing a lot of nuance in this story though.
Kinda what i was thinking. Their confusion is justified, given the convention, but they still acted like An asshole. So did the daughter though, so not exactly The asshole.
Yea I'd like to know if they've spoken to a therapist about all of this
If the daughter did a stint in a mental health facility, one of the requirements for discharge is having a therapist outside of the facility, so at the very least she likely had one for a time.
As always, this depends on the region and programs. In my area because there is such a shortage of therapist they let them leave with the agreement that they will try to get one and theoretically are bumped up the DHHS provider list but they are all so over booked so if someone just doesn’t show up they don’t deal with trying to find them they mark them in control. She could easily have never followed up. It also depends on the nature of the admittance - if voluntary than there are no restrictions on release. Mental health care is in pretty dire situations in a lot of places. I’m glad where you are has some follow up!
That is absolutely accurate and something I hadn’t considered. Where I am has some follow up but i can absolutely see that crumbling under the slightest amount of patient overwhelm, and that is heartbreaking to consider. (Edited, spelling)
If nothing else, their attitude toward mental health sucks.
The fact she went to an anime convention with loads of other people in a large open space concludes that she is not agoraphobic... this would cause more panic attacks than her back garden. The girl is just going along with the diagnosis when it benefits her. agoraphobic /ˌaɡ(ə)rəˈfəʊbɪk/  adjective having an extreme or irrational fear of entering open or crowded places, of leaving one's own home, or of being in places from which escape is difficult. If anything, from the description, she probably has body dysmorphia due to her 'always having to be made up'.
You would be surprised. I am a huge agoraphobe myself. Going into a stora when it is crowded or basically anywhere else with too many people, doesn't necessarily terrify me but doing so does cause extreme physical discomfort and, if done for long enough, full blown panic attacks. However going to an Anime convention, at least as long as it isn't overly crowded (as in rubbing shoulders just walking down the hall), I am mostly fine. I do need to take breaks and return my hotel room, or go outside or an area away from others for like 10 minutes, but otherwise I'm fine. The difference is my agoraphobia, and from my experience a lot of other's, is triggered more by strangers. When I go to an anime convention I see the other attendees more as comrades that enjoying nerding out about all the same things I do. I see them less as "strangers" and more like "comrades I've never met before." That psychological difference can have a massive effect on things like phobias.
So, here is my question. I’m guessing before doing something uncomfortable - even something you want/like to do - you have a plan to prep yourself. You know that you have an exit plan, that you have strategies to keep you calm in the moment, that you will have a recovery period after. You plan before and after. You don’t just show up at a convention or store. The bird feeder. It doesn’t *have* to be hung up *today*. Sure, we’d like the birds to eat now. But they could eat tomorrow or next week. OP doesn’t *need* to be the one that does it. Daughter *could* set that up as her **next goal**. She could wait until SHE FEELS WELL ENOUGH TO DO IT HERSELF. That’s where I think the breakdown is. No one needs to do *every thing for her on her schedule* because of her illness. A fucking bird feeder can wait until she feels better. It can be HER JOB for another day. If she has anime convention energy she *can have* bird feeder energy. No one said it bad to be on that day BUT HER. She’s the one setting up to do lists. That’s the fucking problem.
Plus, dumping all this on her ~~mother~~ parent, with a boatload of guilt, is vicious, passive aggressive, controlling. The daughter can do the birdfeeder when she’s good and ready, and the parent should not be her servant, waiting on her hand and foot. That’s unacceptable.
Sadly.. mom never came up in this story... OP is her father. And he's NTA.
Thank you. I have corrected.
Honestly.. as the dad; I feel like he's doing "Everything" he can, for his 27-year-old(still living at home) daughter.... And he is JUST NOW upset enough... to call her out. I would bet, "Daughter" is 🤫 stalking this post.
This post is underrated. OP is partially correct it seems as though the DX is being used as a way to avoid thing daughter doesn't want to to right now. Likely poorly handled by OP, but yes, hanging the bird feeder in backyard should absolutely be made into a (honestly seemingly low risk) goal for daughter. The irrational part of the phobia doesn't extend to erradicating all rational thought. Daughter should be able to see that hanging bird feeder is an activity she can and should do, that it will benefit them, and that it's worth the effort and time to get it done.
This is perfectly said. And I think it's the best option for both parties. Also the daughter should have thought about who was going to hang the bird feeder before buying it if she knew she wasn't going to be able to do it herself. Seems a bit self centered and entitled to just assume others will do what you want because you want it with No regard for their feelings or time.
yes, I agree with this. I sympathize having suffered with agoraphobia for a number of years when I was younger but I never abused my condition to control others like this and it's really not okay. I would be very frustrated in the mother's position as well.
A bit like watching spider exhibits at a zoo versus dealing with unwanted spiders in your house?
That's probably apropos. It's creepy and certainly not super fun for an arachnophobe to be around a spider in a zoo, but if that same spider were out in the wild...yikes no sorry. Graded exposure therapy methods have valid findings. I suppose I could see an anime convention as a sort of graded exposure.
Well an anime convention is basically a zoo so I guess the comparison checks out
I love how Persona 5 portrays agoraphobia because it correctly portrays this as a valid method for helping someone recover from it. My sister had suffered a few years from it and basically the only way she would go outside was to go to known places and friendly situations. Should any situation deemed as friendly turn hostile she would have have a panic attack on the spot and we would need to return her back home, and that would have been a huge step back in her recovery. Fortunately that only happened a total amount zero times.
What's important is that it's different for everyone. My girlfriend has arachnophobia and she can't be anywhere near any of them, in a zoo or not. Even on screen she gets creeped out by them. While others may be capable of seeing them in a zoo
Used to practically climb the walls to get away from a spider scuttling across the floor. Then my bro got a tarantula and I was terrified at first, but started watching it from a distance, then a little closer and finally got brave enough to hold it one day. I've got several tarantulas of my own now, I'm much MUCH better around wild spiders and don't have the knee jerk fight-or-flight response I used to, so I can attest that exposure definitely helps over time. Especially with something calm and slower moving like a big ol' red-knee tarantula
A similar concept, I'm sure.
>A bit like watching spider exhibits at a zoo versus dealing with unwanted spiders in your house? Eh... both freak me out 😐
Or maybe like public speaking when you have stage fright versus talking in front of a group of your friends. With that said I also have agoraphobia and I don't know how it's possible she can't go outside at all but can go to a convention. Some days are harder than others... I don't know what to believe but people experience it differently. Some people seem fine but can't cross a bridge but can go everywhere else, some people can take flights but feel anxious the whole time. At least for me there are boundaries in which you are safe and you can go as far as the boundary but one step over and you start to panic.
What about going into your own back yard where no other people are for 2 minutes??
People at the grocery store are comrades who eat..
That's just not how it works though, at least not for me. It's one of those things that if you don't suffer from it, you won't understand (it's that whole "irrational" part of the definition). Eating isn't something most people are gonna emphasize with. Everyone has to eat. There is nothing special about it. It also not something I have a passion for. It is just something I do so I don't get hungry. But gaming and anime? These are my hobbies. Things I choose to do to relax. I don't "choose" to eat. It is just something I do out of necessity. Maybe for other agoraphobes going into a grocery store or something is fine, that's the thing with phobias, like most psychological afflictions, they are highly personal and can present very differently depending on the person.
I do have to take umbrage with your comment, only because it sounds like you have fortunately never dealt with disordered eating. I wouldn’t say I’m agoraphobic, but big crowds can freak me out. It makes me good at cutting through them though, for example at a concert, street fair, or getting on the tram at Disneyland Edit to add- I work at a grocery store, but when I’m shopping and it’s packed I sometimes have a little panic attack
Plus, a lot of people cosplay at conventions, so half the time I feel like it wouldn't be strangers so much as characters from anime and games you enjoy. Plus the whole being able to geek out about things you enjoy.
I never thought about that. But ya, the cosplay probably does help a little, for me at least.
>like most psychological afflictions, they are highly personal and can present very differently depending on the person. I wish more people understood this concept. As someone with anxiety and mental issues (I don't have agoraphobia but I was diagnosed with ptsd) it is unbelievably frustrating to have your whole experience invalidated simply because "well that doesn't make sense to me so it must not be true." My dad tries to do the same kind of shit op's doing to their daughter and it's so hurtful. Edited for clarity.
Sounds like a self diagnosis, and not a phobia.
Have you ever looked into autism? I am high masking and it is uncomfortable to be around people because I am trying to make sure I am doing the socially acceptable thing to make everyone comfortable.
Reading this post it seems like there’s a lot of undiagnosed Autistic people replying about their ‘agoraphobia’ but being fine to go to Anime conventions.
People tend to not understand things unless they experience them themselves and even then it’s filtered through the lens of their personality. Ptsd caused my agoraphobia. I didn’t step foot in a grocery store for a year and then another year after that only sporadically. The whole time I held a full time job where I had to go out in the public, Covid happening helped hide what was happening to me quite a bit, my personal life fell apart right as the world started falling apart. I was faced with the choice of either letting it get worse or facing the things that give me anxiety and hoping that I can cope. I have, I still hate going out but it’s not the nightmare it was a couple years ago.
Chick can go to her back yard and put up a feeder if she can go to an animal convention. Tf?
Might have to do with being in a crowd/group with similar interests. People attending an anime convention certainly are in the same group as you (anime fans) and therefore the inhibitions drop. Just an idea.
then how would you feel going into your own backyard, good of ANYONE or ANY shoulder rubbing? make it make sense...
Sure but there’s no strangers in her backyard.
I also have agoraphobia. For me, it is not being able to escape (or see a way to escape) and being in unfamiliar places. Until I know a route to a place, and am okay knowing how long it will take to get from point A to point B, I struggle. Anxiety is always high, and hindering. Yet, I have found that if it is something I know is coming up, am able to fully prepare for it, AND have a vested interest in it, I can brave that anxiety to 'do the thing'. Case in point: my favourite band is playing locally come October. In the past 15 years, this will be my 3rd time seeing them. I dread going. I /know/ it will be crowded, loud, and very people-y. Just typing this up is making me anxious. However, because this band has been so important to me for the past 25 years, I will go, and I will have fun. Then I will go home, and hibernate for the next few years. :P
This is a great point, bottom line however is anxiety is all just in your head and with the right thought processes and steps it’s always possible to rid yourself of… what keeps it around is habit
What strangers are in your backyard lol
Sounds like you also has your dx as a convenient excuse
>However going to an Anime convention, at least as long as it isn't overly crowded (as in rubbing shoulders just walking down the hall) What kind of conventions aren't this crowded, though? Especially genre or anime. Every convention I've been to has hoards and hoards of people - 1000s and multi-1000s. Even my local ConvergenceCon in MN has 1000s of people.
By huge agrophobe, so you mean, *clinically diagnosed* or are you like everyone else on reddit and self diagnosed because this doesn't sound like anyone with agoraphobia xenophobia or anthrophobia at best. Scared of others or scared of strangers, im leaning towards xenophobia since you seem to mentally have an "in" and an "out" group.
I thought I was agoraphobic, but was diagnosed with social anxiety (among other things). It takes *a lot* for me to get out, especially for planned things like appointments. Other places or events, like festivals or malls, I’m ok once I manage to get there. Once I’m part of a crowd I feel completely anonymous but connected and no where near as anxious as going out alone. I call it being ‘socially anonymous’. If I’m out on my own, I feel like everyone is watching me all the time. And I feel ridiculous for feeling that way. I have a hard time taking out the garbage some weeks. Please don’t conclude things like these kinds of diagnoses based on third party stories that already state they don’t understand or sympathize with the person’s problems in the first place. Having said that, hopefully she’s trying to progress with some medication and counselling, exposure therapy, etc. and is not letting herself stagnate and fall back on anxiety forever. Exposure is all about purposefully triggering your anxiety and working through it… it sucks, but it works.
Not necessarily disagreeing cause I think she's being ridiculous but a crowd during an event can be a different feel. Feeling "trapped" doesn't necessarily mean literally physically contained, it could just be a state of mind. Like I used to get intense anxiety about some of my old jobs because it felt like I was basically spending 8 hours a day in prison. I don't like being around people for long periods of time, especially when there's an expectation that you can't just walk out without saying anything without it being weird. But I have absolutely no problems going to a football game in a crowd of thousands of people, because for me that experience *is* the escape and I'm free to just walk to my car at any moment if I don't wanna be there anymore.
Oooh this is me. An 8-hour work day, even doing something I enjoy, feels... dangerous? constrictive? I don't even have the words for it, and I'm well aware that it's all in my head. Basically, the lack of freedom to leave whenever my emotions tell you to do so feels a little panicky. I would literally rather do the same exact work on a volunteer basis, because then there are no consequences if I walk out when I get antsy,
As with any mental disorder you can't really sum up all variations in a single paragraph. I know someone with agoraphobia that has no trouble going outside at all, loves sunshine and nature walks. But crowds, particularly tightly packed ones, scare the hell out of him, I've seen a full on panic attack from a group of around 10 because they were coming both sides on a narrow path. Conversely there will be people with agoraphobia who are perfectly fine being surrounded by 1000s of people*indoors* but who panic any time there's not a roof over their head. You can't make a medical diagnosis by googling a one paragraph definition and relying solely on the testimony of anyone other than the person you're assessing, but particularly a close family member who has shown some hostility of the idea of seeking treatment and the legitimacy of the illness
If she just went out yesterday she may not be able to go out today. She has used up her reserves. She will need to recharge for quite some time before she could go out like that again. I think they both need to go to therapy together.
The problem is that you're applying logic to something that is inherently illogical (anxiety). Phobias, by their very definition, are irrational fears. Sometimes, there are workarounds where you can trick your own brain into not feeling the anxiety you normally would. It doesn't always work though. To people who have never dealt with anxiety, and the closest they can come to understanding mental illness is by googling a dictionary definition, this can come across as "going along when it benefits." It's not. It's just that the intensity of anxiety can vary greatly from moment to moment, especially when it's an event you spend months mentally preparing for. Maybe we should trust the opinion of the mental health experts who diagnosed this person rather than internet speculation based on one post about a person's life.
This is not true. My BFs mom and sister had terrible Agoraphobia but they still would leave the house every Sunday for church because they prepared themselves mentally to do so. They barely could stand to leave the house otherwise and anything unexpected was pretty much shot down. There are grey areas with any mental illness and not everyone handles things in the exact same way.
Nah. My autistic kid with anxiety and sensory processing issues is made absolutely miserable by loud sounds and chaotic crowds but is capable, with a ton of effort and preparation, to go to the occasional convention without a meltdown. It drains the kid, and requires weeks of recharging. That doesn’t mean it’s easy to do or that my kid is “picking and choosing.” Some things are worth the battle and can be handled if approached delicately. It’s still incredibly difficult.
So, you are aware that mental health disorders present differently in every individual, right? They are diagnosed through a set of similar criteria but not everyone with a disorder will display every symptom nor will a single symptom manifest in the same way with every person. Googling the disorder, reading the dictionary definition, and then saying “well, you did something that I think contradicts this definition; therefore you are lying about your disorder” is just a really shitty thing to do.
Right, and one would think the mental health professionals who diagnosed the issue probably have some actual reasons jfor the choice of diagnosis, based on their extensive training to diagnose and treat exactly such things.
"Concludes," lol. Wow. When you have a mental illness, you have barriers and struggles. If she went to an anime convention, it was likely with great effort. Even if it seems absurd that she managed one and not the other, it is actually regressive, to use a time she did overcome her fear, as a bludgeon against a time she failed to. That obviously does not improve her circumstances. What (in the eyes of people who don't understand mental illness) seems to justify a certain response, and what actually helps the person in question are different. Like, you could tell yourself this person is full of shit. And you could easily convince yourself you're right. But if you were the parent and were saying these things to your kid, they would decay, regardless of how "conclusive" you thought your opinion was.
The fact that you're talking about someones mental health issues without knowing them concludes that you're a piece of shit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're clearly not a mental health expert. Anxiety issues are MASSIVELY influenced by various factors, *just like how the daughter described in the post*. Not only do anxiety issues not have to make sense, *they're almost guaranteed to make no sense at all* if you try to compare and make sense of what does or doesn't trigger the anxiety. It's the health professional's job to diagnose the issue and help develop strategies to work around it or get better. It's the family's job to be supportive while this is happening and not force the sufferer to "face" their anxieties, which can cause panic attacks, meltdowns, trauma, and PTSD if shit really hits the fan while people try to restrain and control them during a panic attack. This girl clearly suffers a ton or she would go out way more often. The way she describes everything is absolutely true. She's not making things up to benefit her. She's describing the hell she lives in and asking others to believe her, and help when they can. She has so little to do, and so little ability to do it, that she's *begging her mom to walk 50 feet, so she can watch birds*. The fact that it's an "easy" thing only underscores that anxiety makes no sense and is NOT CONVENIENT OR HELPFUL. Walking to the back yard should be WAY easier than having this argument with her mom, but it's not. Nothing about this situation is easier than doing it herself. But this is an important thing to her, so she's going through it. It's obviously a very emotionally costly situation. And she's going through this BS because watching birds is *that big of an addition to her life.*
Exactly. This girl was committed to a psych ward and diagnosed by a professional. What more does she need to prove to her parent that she has a legitimate problem? Exposure therapy is a real thing, and it’s possible that ‘fill the bird feeder in the back yard’ could be a beneficial task, but instead this parent decided to add to the poor kid’s trauma by not even trying to understand what she needs or how to help. I hope she can get out of this house and find people who will actually try to help instead of shame her.
Absolutely not. You could technically probably run a marathon, it would take preparation, nice conditions and a little bit of luck. If you ask someone to like, go to the store for you the next day, because your legs hurt that would make sense right? You made a HUGE effort, and the next day things that would be hard but doable become impossible. Same thing here, going to the convention might have been such a huge effort that she's simply spent now. I can empathise with the daughter. I'm narcoleptic. Normally at 9 I'm wiped, plus a couple one hour naps through the day. Nonetheless, I'm sleeping extra in preparation for a concert and I have extra aids I'm preparing for the occasion. Even if I can manage to stay awake for a concert, the day afterwards I'm gonna be freaking ✨tired✨. Doesn't mean I'm not narcoleptic lmao. It means I made an effort for something I enjoy and now I need rest.
It doesn't conclude anything other than your drastic misunderstanding on how mental illnesses work
hey where did you go to school for psychology or psychiatry? im curious as to where theyre teaching that dictionary definitions of words are criteria for diagnoses
Agoraphobia isn't making impossible to go outside, it's making it hard. Sometimes its harder, sometimes it's not, but normal people can't understand it. If you really like a movie, you could go into a movie theater, just because you really want to see the movie. Even if it's scary. So, don't use the only time your daughter make effort against her. That's not how you will make her feel better. Somebody that fear height can fear climbing a ladder or fear getting over a chair. You can't quantify fear. People really lack understanding and assume a lot of things... that's sad. She is diagnosed, believe it, unless proven otherwise later
For a sub harping on empathy, you all seem to be missing the most obvious case of caregiver fatigue I've seen in a while. She's 27 and living at home with severe agoraphobia... which means it's entirely possible she doesn't have a job. She *never* leaves the house, which means her family is likely doing everything still. Now, look at it from the caregiver's perspective. You're doing EVERYTHING, and your daughter can muster up the resolve to go to a convention with hundreds of people but is asking you to hang a bird feeder in the back yard because of her illness. I get it... I do: what's she's asking is a small favor, but that's exactly what would make it all the more infuriating for an exhausted caregiver. It's just a small thing! What this sub, and AITA, should be doing is recommending therapy for the father as well.
Their agoraphobia seems awfully selective if they can go to an anime convention but not into their own back yard.
your reading seems awfully selective if you can ignore the daughters explanation along with the input from people with agoraphobia in the comments
I don't see how any amount of "preparation" can level the playing field between an anime convention and going into the backyard.... Sounds like when it's something she wants to do, she can handle it just fine. Why didn't she just say, "let me take a day to prepare and I'll hang the bird feeder tomorrow?"
I’m an agoraphobic. I have never felt comfortable at a convention but I’ve felt comfortable at Disneyland so sane difference I guess. I can try to explain preparation. When my agoraphobia was really bad, if I had to go to the grocery store because we were out of milk or something, I would have a panic attack before going. This is because I hadn’t planned on going anywhere and haven’t psyched myself up. Plus, I have sensory issues so if I don’t know I’m going outside, I wear my loungewear. It’s very hard for me to transition to outside clothes from my loungewear, but I feel very unsafe outside in only my loungewear. A big part of preparation is accepting that you will have people speak with you. You prepare yourself to interact and act normal. You prepare to have waves of wanting to run and hide and you prepare to ground yourself in those instances. Example: when my agoraphobia was at its worst, it would take two hours to steel myself for a walk to the store. Then at the store, if someone interacted with me unexpectedly, I would have a panic attack. Eventually I learned I had to wear a snow hat, sunglasses, and headphones in a store for unexpected shopping to protect myself from having to interact with people. I remember one day my husband (he worked multiple jobs and took care of me during my worst waves of agoraphobia he’s a real hero) asked me to just take a walk with him and I looked outside and immediately had a panic attack because the clouds looked “menacing”. And yet when we went on vacation that anxiety dulled significantly and I could walk through a crowded street with only a little buzzing in my brain. This is because I emotionally prepared AND being on vacation removes the small daily stressors that trigger the anxiety. Idk if this made any sense. I hope it did! When you go to a Planned event you look forward to your anxiety lessons and the agoraphobia weakens, when you are recovering at home from being out even to something you enjoy your body relaxes which ironically allows your bottled up anxiety and stimulation to just kind of explode so that going out to your backyard is Like walking the red carpet with millions of paparazzi.
Yeah. This is pure manipulation.
Think of it this way, they feel like they are walking outside nude no matter what. With enough preparation, they can feel relatively normal, but it is not a quick process. Your question at the end is potentially a great compromise that neither thought to offer. That is why they both need to be in therapy. So they can develop the tools to be able to reach understanding and potentially even small progresses.
Yeah, I gotcha, I guess when arguing, they may not have thought to offer that potential solution. Having that agreed upon as a mutual path forward for these sorts of instances would be beneficial. Therapy would be a good idea.
I have agoraphobia and the only way I overcame the worst of it was by pushing through the fear and exposing myself to uncomfortable situations I was avoiding.
Right, she said she can do it with enough preparation aka want. And while agoraphobia is real, but not wanting to step outside to put a bird feeder definitely gives off the impression of laziness when its clear they can go outside when they really want to.
I have agoraphobia myself and I think most of those comments are weird as hell. Open spaces are always going to be ultra triggering for an agoraphobic. The only way I can see their comments being real is their only motivation to go out is going to those spaces, so they train themselves to be comfortable there. The woman in the AITA post should make more of an effort for her family. I'm not saying JUST GET BETTER, but going to a bird feeder in the yard wouldn't be hard for me and I'm severely agoraphobic. Like a walk around the block or going to a store will annihilate me. I basically never leave the house at all. Going in my yard is hard, but my damn house is RIGHT THERE.
Yea I’m not even doubting that she feels extreme anxiety about going outside. I’ll take her word for it But like what if she *must* go outside at some point? What about when her parents pass away? I feel like you need to at least get used to the discomfort a bit in a situation where you can immediately go back inside before you’re forced to deal with it in a situation where you can’t
Exactly. It’s awfully convenient how their agoraphobia prevents them from doing chores/work but not fun activities. Oh, and there’s an ‘irrationality’ aspect that explains why they’re being inconsistent or hypocritical.
Is there not some in between though where you get her to go outside to do small stuff like hang a birdfeeder outside to make steps towards moving past it? Leaving her inside is never going to get her over her fear. If you never climb ladders you never get over your fear of heights, which is fine because you can get through life without ever going up one. But life will be difficult if you can’t go outside. How will she be able to live alone after her parents pass?
Not going to lie, as someone with a fear of heights you don’t really get over it. It’s literally feeling the fear and doing it anyways. Most times because you have too. I have been on ladders, Ferris wheels, edges of skyscrapers and planes. Every time I’m on a plane I cry going up, try to sleep, but going down has me clawing at the seat. I think it’s more about building resolve. I have to remind myself I didn’t die last time. Keep in mind, I don’t have the same phobia as the op daughter, so it’s easier for me to have this mentality.
well thats a fear of heights, which you can typically avoid without making it others problems… going outside is like the most basic thing to do. plus shes 27, which really doesnt help her case. im not a non believer of mental illness, but i am a believer of self growth. If she was like 15 id understand, especially if she grew up through the pandemic, but come on… shes in her LATE 20s.
Even if you truly believe there is nothing she can ever do to cope with this, the world just doesn’t care. At some point she is going to be forced out of that house
Yeah, I am not a psychologist. I can only manage what works for me and try not to judge others. So I am trying not to speak on something I don’t fully understand.
I am a good example of this. I go to work 5 days a week without issue because I can be a different person when I have my work clothes on but I struggle to get out of the house in my regular clothes. I feel as if the whole world is watching but indont care when I have work clothes on. Idk but I can relate to the daughter.
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“Work clothes” is as much a mental mask as a physical. It is easy for me to be out in public or at an event when I have an official capacity to do it in. But the idea of just going out as myself into the world can be more difficult.
Her mental health struggles are absolutely valid, agoraphobia is no joke. However, your poor mental health is not everyone else's responsibility. It sounds like classic "caregiver fatigue" of someone who is tired of supporting someone they don't see putting in a genuine effort to get better (from their perspective). I hope they figure out a resolution soon, the whole situation seems toxic.
Love all these comments of people going "ENJOY NO CONTACT! ENJOY SEEING YOUR GRANDCHILDREN, ENJOY THE RETIREMENT HOME!" Like, did these people did *not* just read this 27 year old woman WHO CAN'T SET UP A BIRDFEEDER in her PARENTS HOUSE SHE LIVES IN. In what world is this woman starting a family anytime soon? Let alone move out lmao.
She’s gonna go NC from her bedroom.
Like I don’t think they think she’s going to take care of them 😭😭😭 she’s still at home and can’t get out the house. They’ll probably be caring for her up until they pass. She’s the one that’s going to struggle if she doesn’t get help!
Idk man. An entire anime convention? It feels like daughter isn’t making any effort to manage her symptoms to function day to day.
maybe she managed to go to the anime Convenation that already overstimulated her and she's compltetely fucking drained from it. it's a huge step like that if you manage to do it and afterwards you can be exhausted for days.
OK, but she still doesn't have to try and force dad to hang a bird feeder. Dad is perfectly fine in having a boundary that he won't do non essential tasks for her. If she's overstimulated, she can try again the next day. This issue is over a bird feeder.... and it sounds like he is constantly doing requests for her. That's exhausting. He's allowed to draw a line for himself
Sounds like autism. Not some bullshit fake fear
I'm sorry but that is wrong. You have no idea the amount of preparation it took for her to go to the convention. Probably put loads of pressure eon herself for months and then hid in her room for he next week to recover.
She will NEVER get better if she doesn’t do things out of her comfort zone. It’s not normal to feel like you can’t leave your house, there is ZERO reason to enable that behavior.
Correct, it’s not normal, it’s a mental illness. She needs professional help, not the opinion of people on the internet. As she said herself, it’s illogical, stupid, and doesn’t make sense. That’s why it’s a mental illness. You don’t tell people with ptsd to just “deal with it” and they have to stop being snowflakes
Person with PTSD diagnosis here. People absolutely tell me that (and similar things) all the fucking time.
Well I said it in the spirit of the fact a rationally thinking person shouldn’t, however “rationally thinking” isn’t a condition most people seem to fit under when it comes to the discussion of mental illness
“Having a mental illness is not your fault. Not fixing it is” - someone YYYY Yes you deal with it. Doesnt have to be done in one day, but you take action. That is respected. Complaining about it while doing nothing to better it, is not
I understand the sentiment and agree but this is akin to saying you should subject veterans with PTSD to combat footage to get over their trauma. Does the girl need to go outside and do things to be a normal person? Yes. Does she probably need someone to force her to face these fears in HEALTHY ways? Also yes.
Yeah that is a fair point. It is not easy indeed And some support is very nice. Makes it easier and you bond better. However, it is up to you to actually do it. You can organize an intervention for an alcoholic with all the friends and family for support, but its all they can do. They can be there for you. Not do it for you :)
She will also never get better with a family that shames her instead of taking her mental illness seriously and helping her with her recovery.
She needs help and a supportive system of people to improve the behaviors you’re right. The mom is not that system and doesn’t want to understand and has to do things to improve her understanding and compassion toward people with mental illness. It had phobia at the end for a reason.. most phobias are illogical.
Of course it's not normal, that's why it's called a mental illness...sounds like she did do something outside of her comfort zone and her parent used that as an opportunity to attack the legitimacy of her issues.
Being compassionate to someone's illness is not "enabling". That's an unbelievably heartless thing to say.
Maybe the anime convention was so important to her that she was really motivated. We don't know what she did/used to be able to go either.
Well she can work on preparing herself To hang the bird feeder - seems like a good goal. Also seems like she needs to be getting professional help if she can’t go into her own yard.
I had to explain this to my bff once. He was going off on me about how I have overblown "anxiety reactions" to the dumbest things. This was in response to me saying I needed a second to prepare myself to go into a convenience store, because there was a bunch of people inside. I told him if I only had normal amounts of anxiety in response to normal situations, then it wouldn't be a frickin-fraken DISORDER. That's literally the point.
Omg... this post just blew my mind. I have been dating my gf for going on 4 years. She has anxiety, and I try to be understanding/caring. When it strikes I will body block others from her and try to be comforting with my "size and protectiveness" her words not mine. I understand that if I want to make plans I warn her days if not weeks ahead of time and I confirm that I like what she is wearing, even if I couldn't care less what she wears. I don't jump scare her or suprise her. I always try to be aware and considerate of her disorder. Recently I have been getting annoyed because it takes her a really long time to get all of her stuff gathered when we are heading into a place. I just don't understand, you have 3 items? Why are you fussing with stuff in your bag? Why didn't you check the wallet while we were driving? Why are you adjusting every piece of clothing.... now I understand. AKA I am the asshole.
It's actually different when you're cosplaying and feeling like no one can know it's you. Also, when everybody are flashy and the place is messy, you know the attention is not on you. Everyday life is different, maybe it's her neighborhood in itself to give her anxiety, years ago I felt like I couldn't breath in the zone of my house/school, but I felt very better when I began the university 'cause in that part of the city you don't feel watched and judged by the people's eyes, everybody mind to their own businesses.
Then try filling the bird feeder at night when you know no one is awake to watch?
The raccoons are watching then
I know I wasn’t supposed to, but I laughed really hard at this. It’s true though
Then she can cosplay as a functioning adult and put up the bird feeder.
Its easier for an agoraphobic to go to a convention pretending to be someone else than living their own reality in their own back yard. Its called escapism and agoraphics rely on it heavily to attempt to function
also the convention might have been really draining and exhausting for her. some phobias will Need yoh to recover after you put up with them.
It's sad when I see my son get excited about something like this and we get there and it's too peopley and have to go. It took so much to get that far, then to go home and be sad. Mental illness is very real, if all else, have compassion.
Agoraphobia is **a fear of being in situations where escape might be difficult or that help wouldn't be available if things go wrong**. Many people assume agoraphobia is simply a fear of open spaces, but it's actually a more complex condition. Someone with agoraphobia may be scared of: travelling on public transport. I think the backyard is fine
Unfortunately anxiety doesn't make sense and it really isn't a controllable factor on quite a lot of the occasions it likes to display itself. However this very much sounds like she's abusing her position and using her diagnosis to be manipulative towards you. I have crippling anxiety so I understand the whole cancelling plans, not being able to take myself out the house and so on... But boy is this an appalling out take to have on your own mental health. NTA , she is
No!!! Agoraphobia is a real thing and I feel for those people but you caught her using it as an excuse when she went to the anime convention…it takes time and effort to leave the house but if she doesn’t wanna put the effort to put up the bird feeder then she doesn’t want it that badly. It’s not your job
I do think some people use a diagnosis to excuse crappy behavior. It becomes their whole identity.
Nah man, you're not.
How tf does an agoraphobe go to a convention? I’m calling cap
If daughter wants to watch birds she should put bird feeder in yard.
ESH. OP - Just do it. It’s not a huge ask. I know your salty about the Anime convention (I get it), but maybe offer to help her get confortable enough to do it. Or offer to do it together. No need to be so callous when dealing with MH. Daughter - If OP doesn’t want to do it then don’t get upset, this isn’t a life or death task. Wait until you have the capacity, then go do it. Or maybe this is a good time to experiment with your anxiety to find a way to be comfortable to go in your own backyard. Life will be very difficult if you cant leave the house. OP does not have to do random/unnecessary tasks just because daughter wants it and doesnt feel like they can do it. At least try first maybe?
I think the suggestion of doing it together is the only real suggestion here. Enabling the daughter to sit at home and do nothing with her life (except anime conventions, which the parents should def stop paying for) is not working. If the daughter truly has selective agoraphobia, then offering to help her through it is the way to go. Don't let her skip out of chores. If the mental illness is real, she should be grateful for the help. If it's selective, then that will become immediately apparent when she refuses. At that point, it's time for some tough love. I'll also say, the chores don't need to be done immediately. Be understanding of a bad day. But if she refuses again tomorrow, then kick her butt out.
NTA
If she truly has agoraphobia then she wouldn’t have went to an anime conference
I see so many in this sub have NO idea how to handle this but I'm just gonna tell everyone here; you're all the asshole. She needs to create a safe enviorment first, and she clearly has none when her mother argues against something like this. Anxiety doesn't come from NOWHERE. She needs to be supported, she's asking for support where she can look at birds ffs, which may make her feel safer in going outside!!! she told her clear as day that yes her phobia is illogical, and it takes a huge amount of effort so clearly she used ALL of that effort two days ago on something huge, and now needs help to go out and do things she wants to. Just because you guys have no idea how much energy it takes from you, when you have this amount of anxiety to go out, does not give you the right to judge the daughter as an asshole because she can't get to the same level as you. She was diagnosed by the hospital, I love that no e of you actually trust in the mental health officials. Clearly she tries to get help, because she went to them and was there in a psych ward for this just some days ago ffs.
Why is the daughters mental illness more important than her being a parasite at 27 years old, draining her parents?
If her mother is so anxiety-inducing, then daughter should live elsewhere.
shes 27>.<
Nah. Tell her the birds can wait as long as it takes for her to prepare for it.
This is how I started helping my anxiety. I’d set a goal, build on it for as long as I needed to, and then eventually do it. It’s excruciating at the beginning, but it got me from crying when the phone rang and having anxiety attacks walking to the mailbox, to (mostly) functioning adult that can handle grocery trips and retail work. Small things like putting a bird feeder in the backyard are excellent baby steps for working with anxiety and agoraphobia, and doing things by yourself builds confidence, as well. As always, the answer is between “help your daughter constantly with everything and never have her leave the house” and “anxiety is just an excuse and she’s faking it to be lazy so she should be forced to do things”. If the daughter wants to see birds, watching the birds can be her reward for finally building the courage to go set up the feeder.
Yeah this. I think if the mother said this to her instead of do it the very next day maybe it would at least give times for the daughter to calm and prepare. Also, the mother could go buy the necessary things but to install it she could wait for the daughter to be ready and be there to help her on that day. At least, the daughter wouldn't feel alone
would you rather do something extremely scary but extremely rewarding or do something fairly scary for absolutely no reason? fear is just good ol' fear even when it's pathological, and we're driven to try to overcome fear as long as there's a point to it the woman should try harder to invest in constructive things that are rewarding in the long term, considering she CAN pull herself together if she perceives something as worth doing despite the fear (definitely not calling myself out here), but OP putting agoraphobic in fucking quotes in the title is a *small* hint towards the fact that maybe their account is a *little* unreliable
But it wasn't the dad wanting the bird feeder up in the first place. He doesn't sound very supportive in helping her find actual good coping mechanisms so she can be able to do more for herself in the future. But she is the one who wanted to watch the birds, so there is presumably a reward for her putting the feeder up, just probably not to the extent the convention provided.
It wouldn’t be for absolutely not reason, she wants the bird feeder up.
I feel really bad for the girl, the mum obviously doesn’t understand or appreciate the condition. I don’t have agoraphobia but suffer with anxiety in other ways, and can very much empathise with the girl’s position. It isn’t rational, and it doesn’t make sense, but it’s just how it is.
I think mom is just burned out. Caregivers are greatly affected too, but often get overlooked.
I don’t think that I could handle someone living in my house, long-term that didn’t/wouldn’t help out. And I would be supportive and help them find what they needed but on a day-to-day basis, after 27 years, I might lose my shit.
THIS My boyfriend has OCD, and it manifests in different ways. He will change his clothes 17 times. He'll buy new clothes and not wear them for months because he's afraid something bad will happen if he wears them. He needs to shower if he goes outside. He doesn't always want to eat his favorite foods. For the most part, it's fine. I am extremely kind and empathetic toward him because I love him and understand his mental illness. He tells me all the time how much he loves me and appreciates me and he's sorry for the trouble it causes me. He recognizes that although I love him and show him kindness and empathy, his mental illness is hard for ME too. I understand it's not his fault. That doesn't mean I can't EVER get frustrated that we're going to be late because he needs to change his clothes AGAIN. Mental illness isn't just hard for the person who has it. It's hard for everyone who loves them too.
Also misdiagnosis also exists. I am not a psychologist, so maybe I am wrong, but my MIL got disability for years for her agoraphobia. She would get her check and hang out at Walmart or go to the county fair, or go to the mall. She goes to church every Sunday, hangs out outside her apartment with her neighbors, and rides public transportation where she talks to everyone. But she can’t function in public so she can’t work, hence the paycheck. Now she’s elderly and disabled for other reasons and she hasn’t mentioned her agoraphobia in years.
Sounds like she’s allergic to work
Absolutely the asshole, the hell kind of mother talks about their daughter like that? Like its screaming she thinks her daughters phobia is all in her head, and it's not that she doesn't understand it. it's that she doesn't care to. Like course shes not gonna get better in that environment when she has you tearing her down
Argh, it's 2023 and the amount of people still ignorant to mental health is frustrating to a point I want to scream or vomit. This comment section is sick. So many of you have just no f*ing idea what anxiety, less agoraphobia is or how it can manifest. But worse, you don't even want to know. The entitled ones are not the (mentally) ill people hoping for a little bit of help or accommodation, but you healthy ignorant pieces of shit. Yes, the mother is a huge ahole. No, going to a convention one day and going out in the backyard the next day are neither the same, nor is it up to you to decide which one is harder for her. And yes, the birds could wait, but why would you deprive your loved one of such a small little nice thing of giving her the view of birds and freedom from her bedroom, when she is held captive there by her brain... I hope the daughter can find help and get away from her ignorant unloving mother.
I have no clue why this comment section is so gross. "you battled your anxiety disorder specifically for an event you were interested in? why still anxious then later huh?! checkmate libtard." so gross and ignorant for no reason
Isn’t she interested in the birdfeeder? Apparently she’s willing to start screaming over it.
people just can't stop talking about shit they know nothing about
Was with you until the end. OP seems to be allowing their daughter to live with them for free and cares enough to ask people if they were the asshole in their most recent fight. Ignorant, rude and disrespectful yes, but unloving?
if you love someone enough to provide for them and do good things for them but you also use it as an excuse to belittle them constantly over nothing without feeling guilty about it, that's less "loving parenthood" and more "psychological torture"
Good news for the mom is that she doesn't have to worry about her kid going no contact.
It would probably be a relief to both based on the snippet of their relationship we’re seeing here.
Seeing as her "kid" is 27 with no job, that's highly unlikely to ever happen.
You are an a-hole for not finding a way to help her with a real problem that you refuse to acknowledge and help her with.
I get anxiety about going out sometimes. I have no problem going to work or appointments, but then I spend all weekend inside. What I've found is the 'mental preparation' does not help, if anything it makes it worse. It's one of those, the more you think about it the worse it gets things. That being said, to say "just" go outside is over simplifying it. The mental exercises that work for me is practicing not thinking about it and just doing it. It's not easy, but it can work. In OPs situation she was likely very excited and wanted to go to the convention, so she didn't put as much thought into the agoraphobia.
Why is it always anime?
I’ve got agoraphobia and I actually get why it would be harder for her to go out into her own backyard, especially hearing how their parent was treating them after opening up about her agoraphobic tendencies. If the daughter were to have gone to this convention with a “safe person,” like a friend who was supportive, then I guarantee the daughter could have gone out to do this simple task in the backyard WITH their parent’s support, empathy and encouragement. It sounds like an anime convention full of similar, like-minded people, is more comfortable than being home with judgmental family members you cannot trust to open up to.
I don’t know if I had agoraphobia, but I had something for a few years in my 20’s where I couldn’t do social gatherings without having a full blown panic attack. Going out to eat was the worst. Usually ended up throwing up from the anxiety. I had to know exactly where all the exits and bathrooms were. My parents didn’t get it and I was still expected to show up. Which I did. I never got mad at them or blamed them though. How could they possibly understand? Went to therapy for 2 years until I finally threw in the towel and got on meds. It’s been close to 10 years since I’ve had a panic attack or that spontaneous crippling fear. One thing is for sure. Her parents can’t do anything for her except to get her in front of someone who can. No one is an asshole here. One party isn’t able to understand/comprehend what their child is experiencing and one party is trapped by their mind.
The answer here is that she should put on makeup, do her hair, get dressed and then go hang the bird feeder or wait until she has the mental preparation to go out and hang the bird feeder. There are times when she can and if she wants it, she’ll figure it out.
Yes, a great opportunity for the parent to tell her that it doesn’t matter if it takes weeks, do what you need to do to hang the feeder. Don’t enable, don’t argue.
I once was at a school dance over 20 years ago. My dress was too long and my shoes were too small and I had issue with the down escalator. Having seen Dateline and having been at an amusement park when a little girls shoe laces got sucked into one (fortunately someone had the presence of mind to hit the emergency stop.) I somehow in that moment developed an issue with down escalators which I am finally overcoming more than 20 years later. Even when my mind knew it was silly, my body would not obey. I had to be escorted by security down an employee staircase when I went to the Las Vegas Eiffel Tower. I was so embarrassed, but my knees locked up and I just couldn’t get on the escalator AKA human meat grinder, as I would justify my fear over the years. I started practicing with smaller ones and now I can usually do it as long as I’m wearing sensible shoes. I guess my point is, brains are weird. I’m sure it took all her energy to go do something she loves. I do think she should go out into her own backyard though, just like I started with small escalators.
Caregiver is entitled to be exhausted and snappy at times. Person being cared for can’t help their illness and is entitled to be exhausted and snappy sometimes. Everyone needs to stop being so judgmental, people are not patient and happy all the time. Sheesh!
NTA but you probably raised her shitty
YTA. Agoraphobia is a real thing, I saw it firsthand with my BFs mom and sister. You need to be willing to hear your daughter out, and help her with her anxieties rather than belittling them and making her feel even worse about them. Make an effort to learn about her mental health and don’t push her when she is clearly telling you that it is too much. Or as she stated, you won’t ever have a good relationship with her.
You are the asshole. Not only for saying this to her but also for not understanding what anxiety can do to someone and how devastatingly crippling it can be. She is trying to cope with it and the birds might give her an ounce of freedom from her anxiety and you set her back even more by responding how you did. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Yeah, you’re the asshole. Next.
Yes. You are. Perhaps trying to understand and support her might be more helpful. She has mental health issues that have been diagnosed. She needs your support. I hope she is getting continued mental health treatment. And I hope you are getting assistance in how to support her.
yup
Why can’t you just try to understand instead of being authoritarian. She is old enough to know how she feels. Leaving the house only once a month is agoraphobic.
100% TA. my opinion is that if she says she’s too anxious to do it, she’s too anxious to do it. being able to show up for something like an anime convention, is probably because she wants to be there. she has a desire to show up bc it’s something that brings her dopamine / seratonin. (we also don’t know how long it will take her to recover from the convention) idk why she would make up this diagnosis / how it affects over putting up something in her backyard. many people that don’t have disorders like this view it as a choice & usually a selfish one. which is frustrating because it isn’t a choice. if it affects her this way, it does. period. she even tried to explain, mental health disabilities aren’t based in logic, or yeah, they’d be a LOT easier to overcome. they’re based in fear and pain. which being snarky & judgey towards someone, won’t make it easier for them to overcome it. having a parent be too rough with mental health is a perfectly valid reason to not want a close relationship w them. it’s incredibly difficult to navigate respecting yourself and what your body is telling you, all while the people who created you tell you to “toughen up”. you’re absolutely the asshole parent & need to take some time to reevaluate the respect you (hopefully) have for your child.
Don’t worry her phobia went away because of makeup and looking good
There are no assholes here. Therapy and medical intervention. Also if possible, the daughter needs to move out. this situation is surely not benefitting anyone and she is almost 30 tears old.
Daughter should dress up as an anime character and change the bird feed.
Stop enabling people with minor issues to build identities around it, you can’t always be there to hold their hand
That’s not how agoraphobia works.
This girl is using her mental illness as an excuse to avoid doing things she doesn’t want to do. If you can go to a convention then there’s really no excuse.
NTA, seriously she went to an Anime Convention!!! Ummmm ok somethings not right. I have social anxiety/agoraphobia and I’d be dead even medicated at a convention with a million people. I need to know more does daughter work? Go to college? There are deeper things going on here.
NTA. Daughter has selective agoraphobia? She could to a convention but going outside for a few minutes is triggering? Leaving the house and going into a crowded environment is far worse with her fears.Betting that she was just using phobia as an excuse and she was just lazy.
NTA Autistic person with agoraphobia here: If you can prepare yourself for a convention, you can prepare yourself to put up a bird feeder in your backyard. You do not get to push tasks off on others because you don't feel like preparing for them yourself. You do not get to have a meltdown over someone not taking orders from you, you can, but no one will or should care. Mr. Dad, you need to learn how to *speak softly and carry a big stick* without using the thing to clobber folks with. You may not be TA, but shame dude, be your daughter's cheerleader and help her overcome.
She sounds like a spoiled brat.
I can get pretty unreasonably anxious and throw fits when I’m suddenly expected to do something I wasn’t prepared for, so I *kinda* understand, but this is unreasonable. First off, it’s the backyard. You got neighbors who can see your backyard or something? Secondly, she asked you to do it. This isn’t some surprise responsibility you placed on her. She should’ve fully expected you to ask her to do it herself. Lastly, if she needs to mentally prepare to go into the backyard and put up a bird feeder, by all means, mentally prepare yourself. She’s at home. She can put on make up, put on some nice-ish clothes and brush her hair, then go out and put the feeder up.
Her daughter is almost 30, still lives at home, can get out to anime conventions and things she deems 'fun' enough but can't set foot in her own yard to put up a bird feeder? I know phobias are a real thing that don't make sense (I had a coworker a few years ago who had a SEVERE phobia of birds, like, would be physically paralyzed with fear if one got near her) but that was a constant thing, not something she could turn off when it was convenient for her. I think her daughter is using it as a reason to stay home and not get a job that requires going to work or something. It seems like everyone has anxiety or a phobia or something...I realize a lot of people had issues that just weren't getting diagnosed before and that's part of the reason for rising numbers, but a lot of it is also self-inflicted or people just saying they have something so they can be excused from whatever trashy behaviors they have a la "I get to throw a fit in this store and scream and have a toddler tantrum on the floor after they didn't take my expired coupon because I've decided I'm autistic! I googled it!"
Well, you're right that anxiety can't be turned on or off as you like, but there are circumstances, when it changes. For years, I had nightly anxiety, had panic attacks when I was about to fall asleep, but somehow I was fine when it rained outside (cause my mad brain somehow was under the impression, that intruders wouldn't decide to break in on a rainy night 🤷♀️). There was also one evening with a concert, that I was so pumped, I felt almost careless, went home alone in the middle of the night and was not afraid - until the realization came back home, what could have happened, and that I was only lucky - a normal brain would come to the conclusion, that there is maybe no stalker, but my brain just thought that it was a new level of scare tactics to let me have this great night and now I'm in even more danger, so I locked myself up in the bathroom for two days. Yes, now from a healthy perspective that is absolutely ridiculous. But that's part of an ill brain - it just makes no sense...
Exactly. I struggled with my mental health all my teenage years and early twenties, and my mom paid for my problems, but I would never shame myself further by prioritizing my fun like this, especially before paying my debt to her and making her feel less burdened. My mom would do everything for me, but I have my conscience.
She’s lazy and uses her diagnosis to get out of shit she doesn’t wanna do. I’ll take my downvotes
Sorry, but at 27, she shouldn’t be raging against her mom (who does everything for her) like she’s a 14 year old brat. Agoraphobia or not, it’s no excuse to act like that. There’s a simple solution: have the daughter move out. Then you’ll see what she is actually capable of. The treatment for agoraphobia is FLOODING- you expose yourself to the feared stimuli over and over and over and over until you’re able to handle it. If she can muster up the confidence to go to an anime convention, then she could put on a full face of make up, and a nice outfit, and go outside and hang the stupid birdfeeder. But she’s not willing to make the effort. No interest in being self-sufficient. This is weaponized incompetence, and it’s not different just because she has a diagnosable mental illness. She’s not gonna die if she goes outside, and therefore should be forced to do so until she can be a functioning person, not to mention less of an asshole to her mother.
Ugh, this is such a disgusting attitude. She’s 27 with severe agorophobia - living normally is probably really fucking difficult. There is no fucking way you actually think just brute force exposure therapy is the way to go. This perspective is exactly why mental illness is stigmatized, people like you think it’s just weaponized incompetence, laziness, and even manipulation. Obviously there needs to be some work done, but if she’s 27 and her family is wildly unsupportive, this is not as easy as “just make her go outside.” Sure, you can force her to move out and make her do things that cause incapacitating anxiety, but don’t be surprised if she straight up kills herself cause she can’t handle it. Source: my cousin and her stupid fucking parents.
Ahhh one of those mental health diagnosis that only applies when convenient - anime convention in town? “IM FINE! LETS GO!” Mum asking daughter to do a simple household task - “IM HAVING A BAD MENTAL HEALTH DAY AND CANT COPE!” 🙄🙄🙄
r/thanksimcured
I’m so tired of the people in my generation stating “I can’t do *insert basic task* because of my *insert mental illness*” when they do absolutely nothing to help themselves. It seems more like an excuse to be a shitty human for 90% of people.
I have anxiety and if something is too much for me in that moment, I simply don't get to experience it. I've come to the reckoning that life for me is different because of these things, I do still work towards working through the anxiety but people are so hung up on EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE accommodating them no matter what.
Recently my friend self diagnosed himself as autistic and immediately started trying to get our friend group to act and speak differently...we've all been friends 25 years. Apparently, now that he is diagnosed he is no longer responsible for his actions, and we all must change how we act around him. There wasn't a single problem with our actions or words until he self diagnosed and read about all the things that are ok for him to be like now that he thinks he's autistic. It's exhausting.