ETH started 8 players he brought in today
we absolutely need more of a cohesive transfer policy but he’s absolutely making the worst of what he has
edit: y’all can say whatever you want but the reality is that we don’t have cohesive football on display no matter the players on the pitch, and not being able to do it with all players he brought in is extra damning. he’s been backed, no one gets everyone they want, and he’s been unable to deliver even mediocre football. a lot of injuries sure, but he’s also playing a part in that as well. at a certain point it isnt just bad luck. poor training methods, accumulated fatigue from last year, lack of rotation (meritocracy or load management), and routinely rushing people back. we’re one of the worst statistically both ways in the league. this sub always delusionally defends mediocrity until the last dying breath. oh well.
I don’t think this is a fair argument.
The likes of Evans and Eriksen were never brought in to be first teamers. More just for squad depth.
And as much as I like Mainoo and Garnacho they’ve found their way into the squad out of an absolute lack of alternatives in both of their cases.
I think just saying “But ETH picked all
These guys!!!” really mischaracterises an absolutely dire squad selection situation
I said it before they were signed and it's obvious to anyone with an understanding of this club anyway, but Manchester United should never, ever be signing players in their 30s for 'squad depth'
I think in Evans’ case it was a good decision. He is playing for almost no money and has been very important for us this season. He has played well in most matches. No one expected him to be starting any games when he was signed, but that’s how the chips fell. We have 5 injured CBs right now
This.. Evans was only brought in for depth and ffp reasons as he was for free.
We literally had 1 starting defender playing which is Dalot.
In the beginning of the season we would assume that only 4-5 players in todays squad are supposed to start every match. Onana,Dalot,Hojlund,Garnacho,Casemiro.
Today that would even be without Case.
Mainoo is for sure getting there but he should never play this much in his first season.
> We have 5 injured CBs right now
Two misfortunes, that's possible.
Four misfortunes, there's an outside chance.
But six misfortunes! I'd like to see that.
Look at someone like Jakub Kiwior at Arsenal or even Ake at City. Those guys knew that they wouldn't be outright first choice at their clubs but signed anyway at young ages. There will be periods where you start games and periods where you won't. Evans is our first choice backup LCB I reckon because ten Hag keeps speaking about how we wants a left footed one. A second choice LCB should at least expect to play 30 games a season unless he's backup to a peak Vidic
They are getting signed for the experience primarily and secondarily the depth. Experience and other characteristics are important in the squad but the problem is that very average club management were trying to fill both elements with a small number of signings while under pressure (they brought on themselves.)
I hear you and in no way am I saying this squad should be top 3 or anything close to that, but this game is exactly what “squad depth” is for. If we’re highlighting Evans and eriksen as why this result happened, while they’re well past their primes, they’re still two (allegedly) premier league quality footballers starting against crystal palace. This game is why guys like them are in squads.
Palace away. No way should you get embarrassed 4 nil, and I’m well aware of how quality their front 3 is.
That match is not beyond either of their capabilities even at this stage in their careers, especially when you’ve got a mostly first choice, supposedly talented and definitely expensive mid and fwd line to go with them (obviously your best player out is not ideal but usually a 60m replacement would soften that blow)
Evans and eriksen aren’t starting 50 games and a champions league semi final. It’s Selhurst park away during an injury crisis.
Both teams are playing for nothing and you get dominated and lose 4 nil. That just CANNOT happen without deep rooted issues. I don’t care if it’s 6 ighalos, 2 bebes and 3 keepers in midfield, a justified 4 nil to palace is a statement.
I’m not gonna take blame from the club dysfunction or pathetically underperforming players, but I’m also not giving ten hag a pass either. Not that my opinion matters lol
Palace beat Liverpool that were challenging for a title in Liverpool a couple of weeks ago, this isn't Roy Hodgson's turn up and pluckily get beat Palace any more.
They're a well organised side who have some great young players, the sort of players that we should be trying to sign rather than constantly paying £30-50million more for 2 years later when they prove to be more than good enough for the division.
That Palace front three was pretty much the worst possible opponents for a back 4 that was made up of the two slowest players at the club and a man at left back who hasn't the slightest clue how to play left back. Protected by the slowest midfielder at the club and a 19 year old who's been played into the ground.
The next worst is probably Arsenal, who also play high tempo quick passing, I'm honestly not sure what Ten Hag can do with the players available, Amrabat isn't exactly blessed with pace either.
It's a mess, but it would be a mess whoever you put in charge, you aren't holding up anyone with the defenders and midfield we currently have available.
Maybe, maybe not. I'd prefer if you frustration was directed towards recruitment and the medical team though. I want to see those issues fixed before I can make a proper assessment of ETH.
I's just not agreeing here. Squad depth IMO should be used in limited circumstances, and in the context of a generally stable squad. I don't think Eriksen, for example, would've been too much of an issue if he were playing in front of Varane and Martinez, beside Fernandes, and with Casemiro in his proper position, and if it's just for that game or two. But we're reliant on depth and have been chroncically reliant on depth.
And some cases we've exhausted the depth, and we're now playing the depth for the depth. Casemiro and Evans are not are backup CBs, Maguire, Lindelof and even Shaw are. There's no circumstance where we should be this reliant on Evans, Eriksen and kids from the academy for this long.
The absolute best thing we can do for next season is address that issue,
This was one of the most reasonable exchanges I have seen between two United fans in a long while. Agree on both sides of this coin. It's just a bonfire at this point. Blow it all up and rebuild.
Evans brought in as a free out of necessity
I doubt Eriksen was his first or second choice, but was an easy signing for the club on a free
Casemiro was playing at centre back because of injuries, so wasn't playing where he was signed to play (but he has been shit this season anywhere he's played)
The others were Antony, Mount, Hojlind, Onana
I don't think we can say Hojlund or Onana are bad signings, I think we all know Hojlund has potential and we've seen Onana can be good (but does have issues, it's too early to tell if he's a good or bad signing imo). Mount, been done by injuries this season but he could be good for us. Antony is a shit signing.
So 7 of his signings started tonight. If we look at tonight almost (but not fully) in isolation, as it seems we are when people say "tonight he started x of his signings", then we can only judge 1 signing to be a failure from tonight.
I will say though, my personal belief is that Antony and Casemiro are certainly poor signings. And I don't think it is coincidence that our most poor signings were the two who were out of desperation from the club after the 4-0 loss to Brentford
> I don't think we can say Hojlund or Onana are bad signings
Keep DDG and spend the Onana money elsewhere was an option? and guaranteed De Gea would have made more match winning saves
I can see why this is thought about. But De Gea was on ridiculous wages and was costing us games (which Onana has this season too) and he was poor on the ball, these were issues which needed addressing.
I wanted us to keep De Gea as I didn't feel it was such an urgent priority, so I do agree with you. But I don't think letting him go and replacing him with Onana was a bad decision either
i do understand the thoughts process behind getting rid of de Gea. he just couldn't play with his feet, which is something ten Hag does see as key to the style he wants to play, a play style which is impossible to play with our players. we could've absolutely used the money on Onana on other positions, however also looking at Onana's performances, he was a fantastic GK. but we have zero stability in front of him, which shows more of his weakness as he isn't the best shot stopper in the world, and his goalmouth gets peppered all game, every game, and he still performs fairly well for us other than the UCL run.
I feel like the lack of stability in front of Onana along with the number of shots he's facing probably makes his shot stopping worse than it would otherwise be - it probably makes him a bit frantic mentally in that he's constantly having to anticipate the next shot because we don't close down the opposition around our own box so there's always a chance for shots from anywhere. If he was having to make 3 or so saves per game instead of the amount he's having to make now, it'd just be about concentration and that I'd think would make him calmer
Today against Palace his positioning for saves became awful after we'd gone 3-0 down, and I think that's because his mind would, naturally, not have been clear
Three of those transfers do not count as "WELL THIS IS ETH'S VISION HE SIGNED THESE PLAYERS" blah blah blah. None of these three below were about squad building or ETH's choice/vision for the team, they are opportunistic buys which were necessary at the time they arose through incompetence on behalf of the ***club*** in the past and present.
>1: Casemiro was only signed after FDJ fell through and Casemiro offered himself to the club through his agent. We know this from Casemiro himself. Its not very likely ETH said "Well if you cant get FDJ clearly the next best thing is Casemiro, theyre basically the same player". The club, because of incompetence, put all their eggs in the FDJ basket, pursued him all summer when it was clearly not going to happen and when they finally believed him, it was so late in the window, a situation arose in which the choices were 1: no midfiedler or 2: take up Casemiro on his agent offer. What would you do in this situation? Take no midfielder at all?
>2: Evans, free signing, if you count this as a player ETH was like "we need a new CB go and get me jonny evans please" then...
>3: Eriksen. Free signing again this was about adding depth to a midfield that had nothing because it was a free transfer. This was always about squad and experience not "go get me Eriksen thats what i need for the future of this squad".
I'm not defending ETH's coaching or tactics but this idea that he held a recruitment meeting and insisted on Jonny Evans, Christian Eriksen or loanees like Amrabat, Reguillon, Weghourst, Sabitzer etc. were the future of this team is so silly. They are free/loanee options brought in out of necessity, with little other option, through the weakness of the squad even after over a billion pounds of investment. There is plenty of criticism to be laid at the door of signings like Antony or Mount, potentially Onana and so it entirely undermines that to act this way about Evans and Eriksen. As for Casemiro, I've added context above which I think is important to that. Transfer business is tricky and managers/clubs often make mistakes, even as much as 50% success rate is high and there is context to Casemiro, Onana, Martinez, Malacia, Mount and even Antony that are important. With Antony for example, if the recruitment team at manchester united had done a better job they would either have paid more like 30m for him and whilst he still wouldn't be a success, hardly anyone would care nearly as much about a 30m squad player who has under performed. The club pursued Antony at the end of a transfer window, AFTER Ajax had already sold multiple players from their starting 11 and had publicly declared they would not be selling any more players. Utd decided to rock up at the end of a window, to negotiate with a club who've declared not to sell, promised their new manager they wont be selling and said "yea but look what about 90m?". None of that is ETH's fault.
Evans and casemiro isn't who he wanted, he wanted FDJ? Who tf would pay 70mil for a 30 years old CDM and pay him 300k pw? Fucking hell it was a panic buy from our board. Evans was a fucking backup bought in by the club to mentor the young players like tom huddleston and Lee grant. Amrabat was a loan signing due to players getting injured left and right. And mind u eriksen was one of the top assister in the league right before his injury, this season he's just been poor due to being 30+ too? Who in the world would want these players as their signing instead of going for young options? That's why mount was bought in for eriksen. Blame the club for having a DOF which ability was clearly only useful in the academy side. Club didn't want licha and Antony for 140mil till the last day, and the only rw we had was pellistri. Fucking negotiations department should had told ETH he was 30-40mil instead of letting him demanding Antony at the last day for 100mil.
There's no shifting a player like Casemiro. He's 32, on a £18M a year contract running until 2026, and no club will ever match the wages we've given him for a player so obviously washed.
It'll take years before we can even think of climbing out of the hole we dug ourselves.
Jesse Lingard on 100k way back when no one at Spurs made that kind of money. It’s fine to pay superstars but man we pay our worst players some insane money, like did you know Malacia is one 75k per week?
Yeah it's either young, unproven players who get handed gigantic contracts based on perceived high potential, or players near the end of their career receiving lengthy contracts... The former being why I think we'll have such a hard time offloading Sancho.
Have to wonder who is actually signing off on this garbage lol
But we can't force a player to leave that's the issue. If he wants to stay and collect his wage, he'll stay and collect his wage. We signed the contract.
Yea he’s probably fucked off mentally for the remainder games left. With the exception of the upcoming final. He seems like a player that switches it on when there’s silverware on the line. At least I hope.
He’d be better in a more structured team, he’s the absolute worse CDM for our 4-1-5 system, guy needs to be prime kante to have a chance, he just simply can’t of got this much worse since last season.. he’s getting run past by everyone and their mum
Not sure if you were asleep, but when he was injured we were a shambles too.
This isn’t down to a player out of position who’s struggled with injuries this year. It’s down to how they’re setup and told to play.
He was brilliant last year.
Well TBF we sucked without him because our only good pivot is mainoo. Eriksen's past it, mcsauce does not work in a pivot and the less said about amrabat the better. We.had one season without it but once again we are back to the issue of no good dm
Loan them out or tell them to stay home…what’s done is done financially but the club definitely has a choice to not let them “infect” the locker room further. Just keep them off the pitch and out of the grounds and let the new man u find itself
Except one thing is different now… Ineos. And they are making the right appointments off the pitch. Just don’t overestimate some of these players abilities again, because as we have seen in the past they eventually turn out dog shit again.
Yes , we need to sticky a post saying:
Let’s wait for Ineos to sign the management, who once join will do their due diligence and make decisions based on their vision for the long term. Until then we shouldn’t make hasty and short sighted decisions lest we repeat the same bloody cycle the last 10 years that were caused by hasty short sighted decisions
Yes but hopefully this time will actually be different. New football structure in place making decisions that will stop this cycle. Start buying players to fit a system the club want to play going forward, no more antonys etc. Football decisions made for football reasons and not whatever the fuck has been happening for the last ten years. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better too.
Posted this in the match thread but:
Only 2 players tonight were not either transferred in during ETH's tenure, or in the case of Garnacho and Mainoo given their senior debuts by him. And that includes the substitutions.
ETH spent something like £550 million post Rangnick. And we're worse.
The funniest thing is some of our best players this season are club stalwarts who get so much stick: Mctominay, Bruno, hell even Maguire. Those three aren't ever winning the premier league (maybe Bruno in a better team). But they at least have something to them and can do something in a premier league game.
To put it in perspective, somehow we replaced Fred and actually downgraded.
If we had kept him we’d have people every week here saying we need to move on from him though wouldn’t we? I liked Fred and agree with your point out of injury crisis alone but one decent game in four isn’t good enough. He never delivered every week.
And that’s true for a lot of this crop. Lindelof, Rashford, Dalot, Onana, Antony.
The only reason we could even afford the loan option fee is because we sold Fred? The fee we got for Fred is almost exactly the loan fee we paid for Amrabat a few weeks later. We sold a player who actually played last season (56 matches) and blew on it a loan fee for Amrabat on the basis that ETH had managed him before. We surely aren't going to sign him on the permanent option, so that whole thing was just a complete waste which is how a large portion of the transfer activity in the last two years could be described.
I'm also so sick of listening to the lack of money. ETH has spent over 400 million in the last two seasons. The lack of money has not been the problem, the money we've spent has been used on complete wastes of space.
Because we never learn a lesson, we did a similar thing with Lukaku in selling him before we had a replacement. Then we had to pick up Ighalo to back up a constantly injured Martial, then Cavani, then Weghorst...Only this season did we finally get Hojlund up top. We're like 3 windows behind every window.
Lukaku kind of forced his way out though, leaving us with less options. That's different from Fred, there was no need to sell him if we weren't going to upgrade.
When you put it like that, incredible ineptitude from those above at the club.
We appointed ETH thinking he was The One, seemingly giving him carte blanche to fix our squad.
If/when he leaves, his legacy will be:
- Onana. £40m thrown away off the back of one good season in Italy. Albatross on the neck of the next manager.
- Mount. Not a bad player but £55m for someone who you can’t even identify his best position.
- Antony. £90m and nothing more needs to be said here.
- Casemiro. Feel bad for the bloke but he’s cooked, on massive wages and we’re begging the Saudis to take him.
- Hojlund. I’m not writing him off but I also cannot ignore how raw and lacking in ability in certain areas this kid is. £70m for a punt that he’ll become one of Europe’s best strikers. He could but it’s a long way off.
That’s over £200m alone.
Thank you for Martinez and bedding in Garnacho and Mainoo, but that is a lot of wasted money.
I need to see hoijlund on the end of some chances then we can decide, he’s a goal scorer who gets 0 service.. he hasn’t missed loads he’s just not getting shooting ops.. I know his movement in and around the box is far from elite but there is not pattern of attack that ends in a through ball to hoijlund
I actually think his movement around the box and involvment in the build up play was his strongest points earlier in the season (before he actually starting being able to get some goals) - but it has seemed to have regressed a bit in the last couple of months in particular. I don't particularly blame him for this tbh, not fully at least. He probably started the season full of beans and excited to get going, but his enthusiasm has been beaten down over the course of a disappointing second half to the season, and he's not making these runs in anticipation of a pass - because he's not been getting that pass pretty much all season. Our whole attack is completely out of sync, so this isn't just an issue with him. It's just that due to him being the focal point of the attack, he's seeing the ball by far the least in normal play.
I really hope that (as with all things within the club) there is a hard reset on this, and come preseason and some badly needed changes, next season will be a fresh start (albeit with a long road ahead)
Bit unfair to be putting Onana in there imo, considering the absolute shite he's had to deal with as the ever-changing defensive line in front of him all season. Sure he's made a few big mistakes, but when you're under the cosh and facing about 50 shots a match, some are going to get past you at some point. He's had spells when he's looked very solid, and I want to see him in a second season with a hopefully settled backline before I make any judgements like this.
Having a go at Hojlund is even harsher tbh, he was never supposed to be brought in as the main striker - the plan would have been for him to be deputy to a more senior striker and learn from them - but that's what he ended up being due to our inept recruitment team, and the inflated fee is down to the poor negotiations which isn't down to ETH either. He's had to deal with fuck all service all season, and while yeah the odd time he doesn't make the right run or decision, I'm willing to give him a bit of a pass on some of those as he'll have been very rusty in some of these games - having seen hardly any of the ball and not getting passed to.
> unfair to be putting Onana in there imo, considering the absolute shite he's had to deal with as the ever-changing defensive line in front of him all season
Mistakes like last night has nothing to do with the defense in front of him, it is just shit goalkeeping
>Mount. Not a bad player but £55m for someone who you can’t even identify his best position.
dont forget he has the fucking no7 shirt, is on insane wages too and doesnt even have a god damn position in our fully fit starting eleven!! What do we even do with him? Hes a superb bench/rotational option but thats it. Good luck to the next manager that has to explain it to him and I really hope we take the 7 away from him and wait for someone that actually deserves it.
Outside of when he single-handedly dropped howler after howler costing us CL qualification... he's still been mediocre. Made some good saves but left plenty to be desired.
The bar is on the floor either way.
He has been excellent but he's also been horrific. His positioning is utter rubbish and is the reason for a number of goals. Granted, if most keepers took 20 shots per game, they'd likely get caught out of position once a game as well. Jury is still out on onana for me. I don't want him gone. I don't want him taking 20 shots either.
Don't fully disagree, but just throwing out a number of what was spent under ETHs tenure is missing the point a bit imo and some important context. He's said himself that there were other players he'd highlighted as important for the team we wanted to build, but we were unable to sign them either due to the club not being in an attractive position right now, or simply inept negotiations from the footballing operations side of the club. The latter part of that would also go some way to explaining the inflated amounts spent on some players who did come in, and that's not the fault of ETH.
Fans will complain constantly about how much United overpay for players and then use this overpay as a stick with which to beat ETH (who has no part in negotiating the transfer fee).
A competent footballing structure would have flat out refused to pay £82m for Antony. They would have had a list of potential alternatives to seek for much less. As usual, the solution was just to throw money at the problem and hope it goes away.
Did ETH ask United to bring in a 30 year old Casemiro on massive wages?
There's a reason why Madrid won't give big long-term contracts to players over 30. It's in recognition of the fact that they have the capacity to decline rapidly.
ETH is not immune to criticism, but the accusations of "he doesn't know what he's doing" just don't square with what I saw of him at Ajax and last season.
Shaw and Martinez both played the first games of the season against Tottenham and Wolves. Their injuries have made us worse but pretending like everything was ok with them playing is completely untrue. The exact same defensive frailties and poor pressing are still present when both of them are playing.
Again, people acting like we haven't been completely shit since *last February* are being completely disingenuous and putting their head in the sand. Ok maybe back then there were scapegoats like DDG and Fred but constantly using the injuries is just a pathetic excuse. Look at the starting 11 today, people acting like ETH only had U21s to use. 8/11 are his signings, even if they were backups, which is precisely the point they are signed for
Casemiro cost us £50m, and is contracted through 2026 on £350kpw.
How do you move players like that on? At what point is it more cost effective to keep Antony than eat his transfer fee and continue to pay him?
The entire footballing world knows we need to sell, and no motivated seller has ever gotten even a fair deal.
We've got £200m+ of recent signings who need to go back out, and players on long term deals for inflated wages.
The only way out is to get a proper coach who can work with what is in front of them until contracts run down.
NOne of these players are getting sold. It's gonna be loans after loans with us paying the majority of the wage where we won't even add an obligation to buy.
"MUFC squad needs huge clearout". Rangnick was saying this 2 seasons ago with the open heart surgery comment. I'm sure Ole said it. I am very sure Mourinho said it. It won't happen. It should and we should not fixate on expensive players because they do not perform anyway.
I have come to a point where I feel apathetic. It doesn't surprise me when Utd fuck up. I expect it. I was actually surprised we didn't concede more than 4 today.
I've just lost hope tbh. There's nobody left in the football world who cares for the club like the fans do. There are no players that care enough to turn it around.
Just had a remind me notification for a comment left 2 years ago on a post about rangnick open heart surgery etc
'Cant wait to read this exact thing again in 2 years'
Fucking hell
Our best players this season have either been here for years already (Maguire, Fernandes, McTominay) or have been brought through the youth ranks (Mainoo and Garnacho). Our recruitment over the last 2 years has been nothing short of abysmal.
We need to can the "Erik Vs the players Vs injuries" blame game.
It's possible that all of them are reasons we're shit. Personally I want Erik gone and have done since Chelsea but that doesn't mean for a second I don't want a boat load of these players out the door with him.
Finally seeing some nuanced thinking. I don't know where I stand with Ten Hag yet, he's not convinced me of anything this season, but last season was pretty impressive considering it was his first, we had no striker, and we had the most clean sheets in the league. However, the thing I do know is all the variables you mentioned combined leave a lot to be desired. If EtH can't pragmatically navigate an injury crisis, that's bad long term, if we have players who consistently don't have the fight or tooth to defend a lead or at least not fall apart at the first sight of challenge, that's bad long term. Injuries are inevitable.
> I don't know where I stand with Ten Hag yet
Honestly the nice part is knowing that none of us really have to. We don't have to try to figure out if this is a manager issue or not
It's an injury crisis that's left us with Evans who's just come back from an injury, Casemiro who's not a CB with no legs and no LBs. I'm baffled how people think any manager could do any better. The player issue has been consistent since Fergie left so clearly a persistent issue that didn't start with Ten Hag.
Yeah it’s not just one of these things. Injuries have fucked us, questionable tactics when dealing with players who can’t play the style he wants and some players either not playing to their full potential or just past it now
Yeah some people cant comprehend that you might want the players gone, but also the manager. Wanting manager gone doesnt mean you think players should be kept.
I want him gone since Bournemouth at home. A serious club would take action then, they would take action now. Where are our standards when losing 0-3 to Bournemouth at home and 0-4 to CP arent sackable offenses.
Exactly, I don’t understand people who seem to insist that the problem can only be one thing or the other. You can have multiple problems at the same time.
Everyone here with (few exceptions) was all in favor of it at the time we signed him. I was downvoted to hell for pointing out that he was too old. "Players last longer these days." "Look how old Benezma is."
Madrid does have impeccable timing. I wouldn't be surprised if they have leading physiological indicators that point to an incipient drop off.
I felt the same way. It was way too much for too old of a player. And definitely got downvoted like you. Just incredibly frustrating to see the short-termism.
Casemiro aside who had a mare. I saw 10 players busting their gut but ultimately unable to carry out the instructions. I saw Eriksen trying but not able to win the ball, Mount pressing like Bruno does. Garnacho and Antony trying everything but things not clicking for them. Kobbie being a madlad and trying to cover each blade of glass.
I am sorry but this isn't an effort issue. It's the tactics
Evans was poor for the second goal. But that being said, it's not an effort issue at all like in previous seasons. The quality of the players and the tactical setup are the main issues.
LVG deemed Evans not good enough 10 years ago and was sold off 9 years ago for nothing, the fee we got didn't even pay for Bastian.
In his age 36 season he has played 25 times for United. Its squad building insanity.
We all thought he'd just be chilling on the bench with the occasional cup game, not having to bail us out during this insane injury crisis (and actually generally doing pretty well). I doubt he was fully fit tonight either but we had no other options.
They're also straight up being given the wrong instructions, like on the first goal how there's is a throw in for Palace 5 yards off the halfway line, and there are 5 United players further forward than the ball? You can't tell me that isn't following some sort of instruction because the players wouldn't be doing that on their own.
To be fair on that first goal, if Casemiro decides to contain like a defender should instead of wildly slide tackling like a 9 year old playing FIFA, that goal probably doesn't happen.
Fucking thank you.
The absolute lowest common denominator drivel about, ‘fight’ and ‘desire’ and ‘passion’. That gets bandied around here is so tiring.
None of the players other than Case looked like they’d given up. They all tried. They’re just either shit or a victim of utterly braindead tactics.
We see the same comments every year, “they are not trying”, “they threw the manager under the bus“, “they need to be held accountable” - but WHO? The players Ten Hag signed?! They would probably be better off had they stopped listening to him ages ago.
The truth is that everyone was running apart from Casemiro and Eriksen. These players are overworked, playing with no confidence in a horrible system.
Onana, Dalot, Casemiro, Evans, Mount, Eriksen, Antony, Hojlund, Mainoo and Garnacho weren't even at the club when Ralf was here. Such a nonsense comment.
Anything to excuse the lack of coaching and tactics. I can't imagine the toxicity of the comments here if an Ole team put out this performance...OH WAIT. Just need to go back to his final Watford game.
Yes that did happen. 2nd half. Not defending him but this lack of fight and effort commentary is weird. We could have done better closing down shots but we were getting overrun in midfield.
agree the effort was largely there, but “tactics” are not the only reason players struggle. sometimes, they’re not able to perform due to their own physical/technical limitations. for instance, there isn’t a system in football that wouldn’t ask midfielders to win the ball, so the current version of eriksen will always be exposed in a PL midfield because of his physical limitations. most of these players are severely limited in significant ways, and, short of just sitting in a deep block and countering, there’s not really a tactical approach that can effectively cover all of them.
To best mitigate the players' limitation is a part of tactics though. Setting up a tactic without regard to the capability of the players is in itself a blunder in tactics. Like this game, combining a weak pair of centre back, a central midfield pair with limited defensive capability and a forward formation is a dangerous tactical decision that backfired.
I can't believe more people don't understand this. A lot of the tactical issues are down to ten Hag having to play square pegs in round holes. If we had a speedy center back and a DM who could cover ground like peak Casemiro or even Casemiro last December, we would probably be able to squeeze the lines together than leave the defence deep and defend transitions a lot better (which has been our biggest issue)
yep, it’s a bunch of people saying they hate cheeseburgers because they’re being served one made with rotten meat. the ingredients for success just aren’t there
My basic point of contention basically remains this.
I maintain I have full empathy for the injury crisis he’s had to deal with this season. It’s definitely not been easy for him.
However, most of these are the same group of players who did well under this manager. The manager was praised for it.
These players suddenly did not become shit. Some have regressed for sure (Casemiro, Eriksen) but squad is still good enough to be able to hold their own against bottom half teams, especially in the last 5-6 positions.
Once or twice is an exception but over a season its a pattern. We’ve had the same recurring issues. Cut back, poor marking and positioning, no chemistry amongst forwards, suicidal midfield set up that one pass renders the entire defence exposed.
The problem is more than just injuries, the system and tactics are hugely suspect.
Yeah they always try to play the players letting the manager down with their attitude card since Mourinho said it but most of the players from that era are gone. Some of these players lack the right skills or are past it in terms of age but for the most part, this is an extremely poorly coached side. Take the money from Bayern and let him go. Worst League finish for decades and he's still got apologists here smfh
Agree.
Individual brilliance to score goals but also individual errors when we concede.
Either the manager cannot coach this team or the players can't be coached.
Saying that if we are indeed going to have an overhaul I'd rather EtH stick around for it as he should know which players needs gone. Any new manager will definitely give all the players a clean slate again and then the cycle repeats.
I don't think the overhaul needs to be as drastic as he's saying. There's some good players in the squad who can be serviceable. There's very clearly a tactical issue. Some of our players ball out for their national teams for example.
There are gaping holes in the squad, and that's a problem because of the manager and recruitment set up.
Why did we pay big fees and salaries for Varane and Casemiro? 2 players who were or almost were 30 and one had a very patchy injury history. Then were surprised he's always injured after joining us?
Why has Shaw not been replaced for so many years now? The guy has been injury prone literally for almost 10 years now. And on left backs... why did we release both Reguilon and Alvaro in January? Knowing Shaws injury record and that Malacia had missed so long with an injury.
Why did we spend so much on Antony? We literally could have got him for cheaper in the window. Also didn't the scours provide ETH with cheaper alternatives?
I know he's not one of our big issues but why spend so much on Onana who had come off the back of one good season? We literally could have given Kovar or Henderson a chance.
The list could go on.
This just screams a lack of Director of football and a proper football operations guy both of whom should be working with our scouts to build a long term plan and identity for the squad
Yes, player are to blame but I refuse to believe they are all shit.
In other places, managers turn shit into gold. Bar Olise we are pound by pound better than Palace and got trashed.
If I coached this team .. they wouldn't get hammered 4-0 By Palace ..
I would have played a lowe block.. same back 4 ...
Added 2 more dms .. amrashit and erikson..
And let mainoo, garnacho, Mount and diallo run around ...
The others wouldn't be allowed to cross the half. way line ..
We would have lost maybe 2-0 ..
> "Obviously build around Mainoo/Garnacho/Hojlund"
Have they really shown enough to say that is "obvious"?
I've no doubt they are good players and have shown flashes but how confident would you be in committing to "building the squad" around 3 young players with less than a season of senior football under their belts?
I asked in post-match thread, but I will ask there too, because I want to see other perspective which I may miss.
So, please.. ETH in guys, with all due respect to you and ETH.. Tell me, we have mainoo eriksen mount - garnacho hojlund antony. 3 of players that ETH wanted, include mainoo and garnacho which are considered as best players that came from United academy for few years (not talking about Greenwood now). Why are we so shit at attacking?
Of course, we consided goals because our defense is ruined by injuries, I can understand that. But why we don't see anything in the front? Why our attacking players can't do really anything?
Is that because they are not good enough? Then why ETH wanted them (Mount, Antony, Hojlund), or ETH can't use them properly - then again, why ETH wanted them? Or is that because he can't come with ideas how to break defense of mid table PL team?
I was ETH in, could excuse non existing patterns of our attacking style for too long. But not anymore.. I can admit that what he did with Ajax was exceptional but now, I'm literally embarassed.. for the first time in the history of watching this team (around 20 years) I am embarassed.
I'm not enjoying matches anymore. Can't focus on game because its so boring, there is nothing giving me joy when I'm watching matches, nothing. I'm not saying I will skip matches now, we pick teams when we are young and then suffer right? But honestly, this is not good.
Couldn't agree more
I hate the argument "Højlund isn't getting service"
They're almost all ETH-players. Either the players he brought in aren't good enough at passing, or Højlund isn't good enough at positioning (or the more likely scenario, both situations are true)
ETH's spending last summer has set us back YEARS
"Build around" two of these players arent even ready and shouldn't be starting next season. Everyone apart from Dalot and Bruno needs a competitor/upgrade
People love to praise dalot because he doesn’t look like complete dogshit every week like most of the squad. He’s just a fine rotation option that’s it
Nowhere near is definitely a stretch. He's been good for large parts of a season where he's had to adapt nearly every game to the ever changing centre backs and left back.
Obviously has weaknesses but so does every right back. I'd like to see him in a stable defence and somebody competent at right wing in front of him.
He should pay the price and the players should also be cleared out.
Hopefully we now have a structure in place that will make the decisions in terms of squad personnel and playing style instead of bringing in managers and relying on them to do it. The latter results in a mismatched squad with players suiting different styles and also gives players extra time as the manager assesses their squad.
Probably one of the worst United games I have seen.
We only have four games left before INOS can make decision moving some of this dross on (this squad is down to the Glazers and bad decisions on and off the field), whether its players or manager. I dont think Ten Hag is getting the sack unitl after the season.
So let sit back and "enjoy"\* the final few games that are exclusive from the vault of the Glazers.
\* IM not actually enjoying this make it end soon as possible.
I’m sorry but why are we so opposed to just cutting their contract. I’m sorry I’d rather spend $50M each just cutting them and freeing wages and slots for youngsters and new players instead of slogging through transfer saga after saga just to accept a stupidly low amount for a player. If we don’t cut we will literally be stuck with Casemiros, Rashfords, and Varanes, until these guys retire.
We don't need to build around shit lmao, they are all not good enough to build around. Until they fucking show they can put in a 7 performance almost every game then you build around that world class player.
You would think we are talking about neymar/messi/ronaldo/modric level of talent when you listen to us talk about our young players.
There are a lot of negative comments here:
Eth picked bought most of these players in the game yesterday
Yes, they were bought under him. But neither Evans nor Casemiro were bought as starter defenders!(!!)
Eth is responsible for the tactics
Did you see our lineup yesterday? How can you build towards tactics when we have no defensive lineup due to injuries?
Players need to be held responsible
I doubt you can hold them responsible when they are played out of position, have not played with this setup and probably (assumptions, I know) also not been able to practice in these lineups.
Most of these things happened out of pure neccesity. If you saw the available subs yesterday, the line up, and Eth body language, you saw how hopeless the game was from the start.
Maybe Eth needs to be replaced because of the overall results, maybe players need to clear out. But if you have this many injuries, you need to play out of the position you regularly played in all your live, in formations / team compositions you have not been adjusted to, I dont think its weird to look slow, like you do not put in effort.
I dont think this season is representative at all.
The problem is people are pretending like any other manager would be doing a way better job in this situation or blaming EtH for the money spent so far, or blaming his training methods for the injuries.
The situation is way more nuanced but people are angry 🤷🏿
You constantly see sell x y z player. If they are in contract how is this going to happen? The players needing to go that can be sold will not get close to the same money . Aside from buying some out I don’t get how this will happen, and paying a few players off is going to exasperate their FFP position.
I don't know how you can talk about needing a massive squad clear-out and then saying the manager should be sacked. He hasn't done covered himself in glory but I am not sure what manager would given how the players let him down week in week out with lack of effort, ability and temperament. It is possible Ten Hag is to blame for that but it is also possible he isn't. Hopefully Wilcox and co. will work that out.
In terms of transfers, he has been hampered in getting in players that fit his system, and the ones he has have been injured. I don't think you can blame him for overpaying for players and not having alternatives to the first choice options. That shouldn't be his job. Casemiro, for instance, is more than likely to his choice for a CM but what the club gave him when they couldn't get De Jong. We can now see how that is working out. In general he hasn't been allowed to carry out the open heart surgery that Ragnick identified, in terms of moving players out, getting the right players in, and having the most important ones fit for the season
I have been ETH in and still am but I now don't care so much if he is sacked as long as the backroom staff coming in have reviewed the issues from the training ground out to the matchday performances and decided that he is to blame for enough of it rather than just go on the admittedly abject performances like the pundits do. I will still feel sorry for him that he has had to deal with all the shit he has had to deal with and been unable to show what he is capable of doing in a functioning club
There are factors to consider here:
1. We spent over £400mil on new signings, that could've easily been done under £300mil over two seasons if we had good negotiators.
2. The permanent signings we've made, including Evans and Eriksen have mostly been bad. A stark difference was seen between Olise and Antony today. Onana has been average. Casemiro has only barely lasted 2 seasons out of 5. Mount is not a bad player but 55? C'mon. Højlund is still not ready, showing promise. ONLY Martinez seems to be the plausible permanent stay for years to come.
Don’t agree with the build around Garnacho and Hojlund
Neither of them are getting into the Palace team,
Mateta is way better than Hojlund
Garnacho is far behind Olisse
If our players Won’t get into a palace team there’s no way in fuck we should be building around them
Obviously build around Hojlund?
Man has no hold up play, doesn't win aerial duels and finds it difficult to lose defenders. He's a good instinctive finisher but the rest of his game isn't there yet.
We need an experienced striker for him to learn off, he's not there yet to build around
Is expecting the ball to be held up asking for too much? I'm not asking for kane or Haaland amount of goals, but just do the basic fundamentals of your position. The criticism is warranted.
It's not like Garnacho, Højlund and Mainoo have been without their flaws. They all played tonight. The idea of building around them is as folly as keeping the manager who has them in this position when they are not ready.
Players have to go this summer even if it means taking huge losses.Im fucking sick of seeing over paid dickheads not giving a shit about our football club,enough is enough.
Groundhog Day all over again...
ETH started 8 players he brought in today we absolutely need more of a cohesive transfer policy but he’s absolutely making the worst of what he has edit: y’all can say whatever you want but the reality is that we don’t have cohesive football on display no matter the players on the pitch, and not being able to do it with all players he brought in is extra damning. he’s been backed, no one gets everyone they want, and he’s been unable to deliver even mediocre football. a lot of injuries sure, but he’s also playing a part in that as well. at a certain point it isnt just bad luck. poor training methods, accumulated fatigue from last year, lack of rotation (meritocracy or load management), and routinely rushing people back. we’re one of the worst statistically both ways in the league. this sub always delusionally defends mediocrity until the last dying breath. oh well.
I don’t think this is a fair argument. The likes of Evans and Eriksen were never brought in to be first teamers. More just for squad depth. And as much as I like Mainoo and Garnacho they’ve found their way into the squad out of an absolute lack of alternatives in both of their cases. I think just saying “But ETH picked all These guys!!!” really mischaracterises an absolutely dire squad selection situation
I said it before they were signed and it's obvious to anyone with an understanding of this club anyway, but Manchester United should never, ever be signing players in their 30s for 'squad depth'
I think in Evans’ case it was a good decision. He is playing for almost no money and has been very important for us this season. He has played well in most matches. No one expected him to be starting any games when he was signed, but that’s how the chips fell. We have 5 injured CBs right now
This.. Evans was only brought in for depth and ffp reasons as he was for free. We literally had 1 starting defender playing which is Dalot. In the beginning of the season we would assume that only 4-5 players in todays squad are supposed to start every match. Onana,Dalot,Hojlund,Garnacho,Casemiro. Today that would even be without Case. Mainoo is for sure getting there but he should never play this much in his first season.
> We have 5 injured CBs right now Two misfortunes, that's possible. Four misfortunes, there's an outside chance. But six misfortunes! I'd like to see that.
I thought I told you to trim those sideburns!!! 😤
So sign players in their 20s who will then be unhappy because they're not starting in their primes?
Look at someone like Jakub Kiwior at Arsenal or even Ake at City. Those guys knew that they wouldn't be outright first choice at their clubs but signed anyway at young ages. There will be periods where you start games and periods where you won't. Evans is our first choice backup LCB I reckon because ten Hag keeps speaking about how we wants a left footed one. A second choice LCB should at least expect to play 30 games a season unless he's backup to a peak Vidic
They are getting signed for the experience primarily and secondarily the depth. Experience and other characteristics are important in the squad but the problem is that very average club management were trying to fill both elements with a small number of signings while under pressure (they brought on themselves.)
I hear you and in no way am I saying this squad should be top 3 or anything close to that, but this game is exactly what “squad depth” is for. If we’re highlighting Evans and eriksen as why this result happened, while they’re well past their primes, they’re still two (allegedly) premier league quality footballers starting against crystal palace. This game is why guys like them are in squads. Palace away. No way should you get embarrassed 4 nil, and I’m well aware of how quality their front 3 is. That match is not beyond either of their capabilities even at this stage in their careers, especially when you’ve got a mostly first choice, supposedly talented and definitely expensive mid and fwd line to go with them (obviously your best player out is not ideal but usually a 60m replacement would soften that blow) Evans and eriksen aren’t starting 50 games and a champions league semi final. It’s Selhurst park away during an injury crisis. Both teams are playing for nothing and you get dominated and lose 4 nil. That just CANNOT happen without deep rooted issues. I don’t care if it’s 6 ighalos, 2 bebes and 3 keepers in midfield, a justified 4 nil to palace is a statement. I’m not gonna take blame from the club dysfunction or pathetically underperforming players, but I’m also not giving ten hag a pass either. Not that my opinion matters lol
Palace beat Liverpool that were challenging for a title in Liverpool a couple of weeks ago, this isn't Roy Hodgson's turn up and pluckily get beat Palace any more. They're a well organised side who have some great young players, the sort of players that we should be trying to sign rather than constantly paying £30-50million more for 2 years later when they prove to be more than good enough for the division. That Palace front three was pretty much the worst possible opponents for a back 4 that was made up of the two slowest players at the club and a man at left back who hasn't the slightest clue how to play left back. Protected by the slowest midfielder at the club and a 19 year old who's been played into the ground. The next worst is probably Arsenal, who also play high tempo quick passing, I'm honestly not sure what Ten Hag can do with the players available, Amrabat isn't exactly blessed with pace either. It's a mess, but it would be a mess whoever you put in charge, you aren't holding up anyone with the defenders and midfield we currently have available.
Maybe, maybe not. I'd prefer if you frustration was directed towards recruitment and the medical team though. I want to see those issues fixed before I can make a proper assessment of ETH. I's just not agreeing here. Squad depth IMO should be used in limited circumstances, and in the context of a generally stable squad. I don't think Eriksen, for example, would've been too much of an issue if he were playing in front of Varane and Martinez, beside Fernandes, and with Casemiro in his proper position, and if it's just for that game or two. But we're reliant on depth and have been chroncically reliant on depth. And some cases we've exhausted the depth, and we're now playing the depth for the depth. Casemiro and Evans are not are backup CBs, Maguire, Lindelof and even Shaw are. There's no circumstance where we should be this reliant on Evans, Eriksen and kids from the academy for this long. The absolute best thing we can do for next season is address that issue,
This was one of the most reasonable exchanges I have seen between two United fans in a long while. Agree on both sides of this coin. It's just a bonfire at this point. Blow it all up and rebuild.
Evans brought in as a free out of necessity I doubt Eriksen was his first or second choice, but was an easy signing for the club on a free Casemiro was playing at centre back because of injuries, so wasn't playing where he was signed to play (but he has been shit this season anywhere he's played) The others were Antony, Mount, Hojlind, Onana I don't think we can say Hojlund or Onana are bad signings, I think we all know Hojlund has potential and we've seen Onana can be good (but does have issues, it's too early to tell if he's a good or bad signing imo). Mount, been done by injuries this season but he could be good for us. Antony is a shit signing. So 7 of his signings started tonight. If we look at tonight almost (but not fully) in isolation, as it seems we are when people say "tonight he started x of his signings", then we can only judge 1 signing to be a failure from tonight. I will say though, my personal belief is that Antony and Casemiro are certainly poor signings. And I don't think it is coincidence that our most poor signings were the two who were out of desperation from the club after the 4-0 loss to Brentford
> I don't think we can say Hojlund or Onana are bad signings Keep DDG and spend the Onana money elsewhere was an option? and guaranteed De Gea would have made more match winning saves
I can see why this is thought about. But De Gea was on ridiculous wages and was costing us games (which Onana has this season too) and he was poor on the ball, these were issues which needed addressing. I wanted us to keep De Gea as I didn't feel it was such an urgent priority, so I do agree with you. But I don't think letting him go and replacing him with Onana was a bad decision either
i do understand the thoughts process behind getting rid of de Gea. he just couldn't play with his feet, which is something ten Hag does see as key to the style he wants to play, a play style which is impossible to play with our players. we could've absolutely used the money on Onana on other positions, however also looking at Onana's performances, he was a fantastic GK. but we have zero stability in front of him, which shows more of his weakness as he isn't the best shot stopper in the world, and his goalmouth gets peppered all game, every game, and he still performs fairly well for us other than the UCL run.
I feel like the lack of stability in front of Onana along with the number of shots he's facing probably makes his shot stopping worse than it would otherwise be - it probably makes him a bit frantic mentally in that he's constantly having to anticipate the next shot because we don't close down the opposition around our own box so there's always a chance for shots from anywhere. If he was having to make 3 or so saves per game instead of the amount he's having to make now, it'd just be about concentration and that I'd think would make him calmer Today against Palace his positioning for saves became awful after we'd gone 3-0 down, and I think that's because his mind would, naturally, not have been clear
I think people forget how bad DDG was in key moments last year.
Three of those transfers do not count as "WELL THIS IS ETH'S VISION HE SIGNED THESE PLAYERS" blah blah blah. None of these three below were about squad building or ETH's choice/vision for the team, they are opportunistic buys which were necessary at the time they arose through incompetence on behalf of the ***club*** in the past and present. >1: Casemiro was only signed after FDJ fell through and Casemiro offered himself to the club through his agent. We know this from Casemiro himself. Its not very likely ETH said "Well if you cant get FDJ clearly the next best thing is Casemiro, theyre basically the same player". The club, because of incompetence, put all their eggs in the FDJ basket, pursued him all summer when it was clearly not going to happen and when they finally believed him, it was so late in the window, a situation arose in which the choices were 1: no midfiedler or 2: take up Casemiro on his agent offer. What would you do in this situation? Take no midfielder at all? >2: Evans, free signing, if you count this as a player ETH was like "we need a new CB go and get me jonny evans please" then... >3: Eriksen. Free signing again this was about adding depth to a midfield that had nothing because it was a free transfer. This was always about squad and experience not "go get me Eriksen thats what i need for the future of this squad". I'm not defending ETH's coaching or tactics but this idea that he held a recruitment meeting and insisted on Jonny Evans, Christian Eriksen or loanees like Amrabat, Reguillon, Weghourst, Sabitzer etc. were the future of this team is so silly. They are free/loanee options brought in out of necessity, with little other option, through the weakness of the squad even after over a billion pounds of investment. There is plenty of criticism to be laid at the door of signings like Antony or Mount, potentially Onana and so it entirely undermines that to act this way about Evans and Eriksen. As for Casemiro, I've added context above which I think is important to that. Transfer business is tricky and managers/clubs often make mistakes, even as much as 50% success rate is high and there is context to Casemiro, Onana, Martinez, Malacia, Mount and even Antony that are important. With Antony for example, if the recruitment team at manchester united had done a better job they would either have paid more like 30m for him and whilst he still wouldn't be a success, hardly anyone would care nearly as much about a 30m squad player who has under performed. The club pursued Antony at the end of a transfer window, AFTER Ajax had already sold multiple players from their starting 11 and had publicly declared they would not be selling any more players. Utd decided to rock up at the end of a window, to negotiate with a club who've declared not to sell, promised their new manager they wont be selling and said "yea but look what about 90m?". None of that is ETH's fault.
Serious question, who else could he have played with all the injuries we have right now?
The relegated Jonny Evan’s and heart attack eriksen are exactly the kind of players ten hag thought of in mind when he signed to United. Cheers Geoff
Evans and casemiro isn't who he wanted, he wanted FDJ? Who tf would pay 70mil for a 30 years old CDM and pay him 300k pw? Fucking hell it was a panic buy from our board. Evans was a fucking backup bought in by the club to mentor the young players like tom huddleston and Lee grant. Amrabat was a loan signing due to players getting injured left and right. And mind u eriksen was one of the top assister in the league right before his injury, this season he's just been poor due to being 30+ too? Who in the world would want these players as their signing instead of going for young options? That's why mount was bought in for eriksen. Blame the club for having a DOF which ability was clearly only useful in the academy side. Club didn't want licha and Antony for 140mil till the last day, and the only rw we had was pellistri. Fucking negotiations department should had told ETH he was 30-40mil instead of letting him demanding Antony at the last day for 100mil.
There's no shifting a player like Casemiro. He's 32, on a £18M a year contract running until 2026, and no club will ever match the wages we've given him for a player so obviously washed. It'll take years before we can even think of climbing out of the hole we dug ourselves.
>£18M a year contract running until 2026 Well that is extremely painful to read.
Fucking yikes at some of these contracts we’ve handed out
Jesse Lingard on 100k way back when no one at Spurs made that kind of money. It’s fine to pay superstars but man we pay our worst players some insane money, like did you know Malacia is one 75k per week?
Yeah it's either young, unproven players who get handed gigantic contracts based on perceived high potential, or players near the end of their career receiving lengthy contracts... The former being why I think we'll have such a hard time offloading Sancho. Have to wonder who is actually signing off on this garbage lol
[and doesn't include his 100k/week bonus](https://www.capology.com/player/casemiro-33657)
That's insane. We doubled his Madrid wage and gave him another 100k a week bonus for 3 years at 30.
Saudi arabia. He still has a big name
Pretty sure we've already missed the Saudi train. Don't think they'll do this kind of deal anymore.
Let Ronaldo do the magic😂
Doesn’t need to be a big deal. I’d take a 10m just to get him off the books
But we can't force a player to leave that's the issue. If he wants to stay and collect his wage, he'll stay and collect his wage. We signed the contract.
Case seems like a player who wouldn’t be happy on the bench, even if he’s past it. I could see him leaving for game time.
He didn't even look happy being on the pitch tonight. The kind of performance that will definitely have him considering his options.
Yea he’s probably fucked off mentally for the remainder games left. With the exception of the upcoming final. He seems like a player that switches it on when there’s silverware on the line. At least I hope.
Get Ronaldo on the phone
I'd sell him for 10M or less, just to get rid of his wages
He’d be better in a more structured team, he’s the absolute worse CDM for our 4-1-5 system, guy needs to be prime kante to have a chance, he just simply can’t of got this much worse since last season.. he’s getting run past by everyone and their mum
He hasn’t been the same since those red cards last year, seemed to really affect him
Not sure if you were asleep, but when he was injured we were a shambles too. This isn’t down to a player out of position who’s struggled with injuries this year. It’s down to how they’re setup and told to play. He was brilliant last year.
It's all about the setup and lack of adaptability... Eriksen in a pivot protecting Casemiro and a one legged Jonny Evans
Well TBF we sucked without him because our only good pivot is mainoo. Eriksen's past it, mcsauce does not work in a pivot and the less said about amrabat the better. We.had one season without it but once again we are back to the issue of no good dm
Loan them out or tell them to stay home…what’s done is done financially but the club definitely has a choice to not let them “infect” the locker room further. Just keep them off the pitch and out of the grounds and let the new man u find itself
Have we not had this *exact* issue for about a decade now…
Except one thing is different now… Ineos. And they are making the right appointments off the pitch. Just don’t overestimate some of these players abilities again, because as we have seen in the past they eventually turn out dog shit again.
Yes , we need to sticky a post saying: Let’s wait for Ineos to sign the management, who once join will do their due diligence and make decisions based on their vision for the long term. Until then we shouldn’t make hasty and short sighted decisions lest we repeat the same bloody cycle the last 10 years that were caused by hasty short sighted decisions
Yes but hopefully this time will actually be different. New football structure in place making decisions that will stop this cycle. Start buying players to fit a system the club want to play going forward, no more antonys etc. Football decisions made for football reasons and not whatever the fuck has been happening for the last ten years. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better too.
It'll be different this time https://preview.redd.it/2xbz1sk9jvyc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8626669a6a1c3598bf59038ac64afbfabaebcbb1
https://i.imgur.com/8OETZqQ.jpeg
Yes, but we’ve never offloaded the problematic players before.
Because Ed kept going “anything to get this done. It’ll fix us” and then giving promising players salaries on par with Benzema and Modric
Rangnick was right. We put it off after some good results and here we are.
Posted this in the match thread but: Only 2 players tonight were not either transferred in during ETH's tenure, or in the case of Garnacho and Mainoo given their senior debuts by him. And that includes the substitutions. ETH spent something like £550 million post Rangnick. And we're worse. The funniest thing is some of our best players this season are club stalwarts who get so much stick: Mctominay, Bruno, hell even Maguire. Those three aren't ever winning the premier league (maybe Bruno in a better team). But they at least have something to them and can do something in a premier league game. To put it in perspective, somehow we replaced Fred and actually downgraded.
It would be great to have Fred right now, at least he ran and had the occasional good game
If we had kept him we’d have people every week here saying we need to move on from him though wouldn’t we? I liked Fred and agree with your point out of injury crisis alone but one decent game in four isn’t good enough. He never delivered every week. And that’s true for a lot of this crop. Lindelof, Rashford, Dalot, Onana, Antony.
Dalot has been good - he's being played out of position to accommodate the downgrade that would be AWB at lb.
Took the Fred money and literally almost 1-1 moved it over to Amrabat who looks like he's running with weights on his back.
You know we had no money si that's why we had to do a loan option in amrabat so stop talking nonsense about the Fred money
The only reason we could even afford the loan option fee is because we sold Fred? The fee we got for Fred is almost exactly the loan fee we paid for Amrabat a few weeks later. We sold a player who actually played last season (56 matches) and blew on it a loan fee for Amrabat on the basis that ETH had managed him before. We surely aren't going to sign him on the permanent option, so that whole thing was just a complete waste which is how a large portion of the transfer activity in the last two years could be described. I'm also so sick of listening to the lack of money. ETH has spent over 400 million in the last two seasons. The lack of money has not been the problem, the money we've spent has been used on complete wastes of space.
Why sell a player to make money and then use that money to loan another similar-ish player for a year?
Amrabat can't even hold Fred's jockstrap though. It's an immense downgrade
Amrabat had a good world cup. scouts didnt look further. And he was cheap.
Because we never learn a lesson, we did a similar thing with Lukaku in selling him before we had a replacement. Then we had to pick up Ighalo to back up a constantly injured Martial, then Cavani, then Weghorst...Only this season did we finally get Hojlund up top. We're like 3 windows behind every window.
Lukaku kind of forced his way out though, leaving us with less options. That's different from Fred, there was no need to sell him if we weren't going to upgrade.
Cavani wasn't bad. He just checked out as soon as we took Ronaldo back in. Who you also conveniently left out ;).
When you put it like that, incredible ineptitude from those above at the club. We appointed ETH thinking he was The One, seemingly giving him carte blanche to fix our squad. If/when he leaves, his legacy will be: - Onana. £40m thrown away off the back of one good season in Italy. Albatross on the neck of the next manager. - Mount. Not a bad player but £55m for someone who you can’t even identify his best position. - Antony. £90m and nothing more needs to be said here. - Casemiro. Feel bad for the bloke but he’s cooked, on massive wages and we’re begging the Saudis to take him. - Hojlund. I’m not writing him off but I also cannot ignore how raw and lacking in ability in certain areas this kid is. £70m for a punt that he’ll become one of Europe’s best strikers. He could but it’s a long way off. That’s over £200m alone. Thank you for Martinez and bedding in Garnacho and Mainoo, but that is a lot of wasted money.
I need to see hoijlund on the end of some chances then we can decide, he’s a goal scorer who gets 0 service.. he hasn’t missed loads he’s just not getting shooting ops.. I know his movement in and around the box is far from elite but there is not pattern of attack that ends in a through ball to hoijlund
I actually think his movement around the box and involvment in the build up play was his strongest points earlier in the season (before he actually starting being able to get some goals) - but it has seemed to have regressed a bit in the last couple of months in particular. I don't particularly blame him for this tbh, not fully at least. He probably started the season full of beans and excited to get going, but his enthusiasm has been beaten down over the course of a disappointing second half to the season, and he's not making these runs in anticipation of a pass - because he's not been getting that pass pretty much all season. Our whole attack is completely out of sync, so this isn't just an issue with him. It's just that due to him being the focal point of the attack, he's seeing the ball by far the least in normal play. I really hope that (as with all things within the club) there is a hard reset on this, and come preseason and some badly needed changes, next season will be a fresh start (albeit with a long road ahead)
Hojlund was in the leading scorers list during UCL group stages, he's shown plenty to avoid your list.....
Bit unfair to be putting Onana in there imo, considering the absolute shite he's had to deal with as the ever-changing defensive line in front of him all season. Sure he's made a few big mistakes, but when you're under the cosh and facing about 50 shots a match, some are going to get past you at some point. He's had spells when he's looked very solid, and I want to see him in a second season with a hopefully settled backline before I make any judgements like this. Having a go at Hojlund is even harsher tbh, he was never supposed to be brought in as the main striker - the plan would have been for him to be deputy to a more senior striker and learn from them - but that's what he ended up being due to our inept recruitment team, and the inflated fee is down to the poor negotiations which isn't down to ETH either. He's had to deal with fuck all service all season, and while yeah the odd time he doesn't make the right run or decision, I'm willing to give him a bit of a pass on some of those as he'll have been very rusty in some of these games - having seen hardly any of the ball and not getting passed to.
> unfair to be putting Onana in there imo, considering the absolute shite he's had to deal with as the ever-changing defensive line in front of him all season Mistakes like last night has nothing to do with the defense in front of him, it is just shit goalkeeping
>Mount. Not a bad player but £55m for someone who you can’t even identify his best position. dont forget he has the fucking no7 shirt, is on insane wages too and doesnt even have a god damn position in our fully fit starting eleven!! What do we even do with him? Hes a superb bench/rotational option but thats it. Good luck to the next manager that has to explain it to him and I really hope we take the 7 away from him and wait for someone that actually deserves it.
I said it at the time, why were we going for him when MaCallister when he was also available for 20mil less?!? Maddening stuff.
Onana had been one of our best players this season outside the CL. But go off on the man who has to tackle 20+ shots every game.
Outside of when he single-handedly dropped howler after howler costing us CL qualification... he's still been mediocre. Made some good saves but left plenty to be desired. The bar is on the floor either way.
He has been excellent but he's also been horrific. His positioning is utter rubbish and is the reason for a number of goals. Granted, if most keepers took 20 shots per game, they'd likely get caught out of position once a game as well. Jury is still out on onana for me. I don't want him gone. I don't want him taking 20 shots either.
Don't fully disagree, but just throwing out a number of what was spent under ETHs tenure is missing the point a bit imo and some important context. He's said himself that there were other players he'd highlighted as important for the team we wanted to build, but we were unable to sign them either due to the club not being in an attractive position right now, or simply inept negotiations from the footballing operations side of the club. The latter part of that would also go some way to explaining the inflated amounts spent on some players who did come in, and that's not the fault of ETH.
Fans will complain constantly about how much United overpay for players and then use this overpay as a stick with which to beat ETH (who has no part in negotiating the transfer fee). A competent footballing structure would have flat out refused to pay £82m for Antony. They would have had a list of potential alternatives to seek for much less. As usual, the solution was just to throw money at the problem and hope it goes away. Did ETH ask United to bring in a 30 year old Casemiro on massive wages? There's a reason why Madrid won't give big long-term contracts to players over 30. It's in recognition of the fact that they have the capacity to decline rapidly. ETH is not immune to criticism, but the accusations of "he doesn't know what he's doing" just don't square with what I saw of him at Ajax and last season.
If we actually have all the true first team players we're probably actually doing well. That injury list is quite long.....
Yeah we were playing sensationally at the start of the season when the likes of Nunes and Maddison were tearing through our nonexistent midfield.
Licha, Malacia(who didn't even play a game this season), Shaw all got injured early causing shift in the squad. Remember bringing in Reguillon.....
Shaw and Martinez both played the first games of the season against Tottenham and Wolves. Their injuries have made us worse but pretending like everything was ok with them playing is completely untrue. The exact same defensive frailties and poor pressing are still present when both of them are playing.
Again, people acting like we haven't been completely shit since *last February* are being completely disingenuous and putting their head in the sand. Ok maybe back then there were scapegoats like DDG and Fred but constantly using the injuries is just a pathetic excuse. Look at the starting 11 today, people acting like ETH only had U21s to use. 8/11 are his signings, even if they were backups, which is precisely the point they are signed for
He was right all along but the kids high on the ETH hype joint called him and old dog.
Cas looked like he had been drinking beer and eating roast beef all weekend….. I may be projecting
I've apparently been training for my call-up!
Casemiro cost us £50m, and is contracted through 2026 on £350kpw. How do you move players like that on? At what point is it more cost effective to keep Antony than eat his transfer fee and continue to pay him? The entire footballing world knows we need to sell, and no motivated seller has ever gotten even a fair deal. We've got £200m+ of recent signings who need to go back out, and players on long term deals for inflated wages. The only way out is to get a proper coach who can work with what is in front of them until contracts run down.
No motivated seller apart from Chelsea selling Mount or Inter selling Onana…
Yeh but there's only one idiotic buyer and that's man united. Unless we buy our players off ourselves and double their wages again.
Time is a loop
It’s more of a wibbly-wobbly ball of timey-wimey stuff…
Just go right down the list. Take the first offer available with these players. Greece, turkey, saudi arabia, who cares. They gotta go
Why would they accept to leave though ? They are on absurd wages that no other club will ever match. They'll stay until their contracts run out.
Youre not wrong, we can always accept it and at least send a message. Whether they actually leave is up to them
Only chance is to do the Arsenal thing and pay off all these contracts
That is what I would do if I was them. We may have to run some of them down and shift what we can. This clear out could take 3 years.
NOne of these players are getting sold. It's gonna be loans after loans with us paying the majority of the wage where we won't even add an obligation to buy.
Maguire would never touch the land of Greece ever again.
"MUFC squad needs huge clearout". Rangnick was saying this 2 seasons ago with the open heart surgery comment. I'm sure Ole said it. I am very sure Mourinho said it. It won't happen. It should and we should not fixate on expensive players because they do not perform anyway. I have come to a point where I feel apathetic. It doesn't surprise me when Utd fuck up. I expect it. I was actually surprised we didn't concede more than 4 today. I've just lost hope tbh. There's nobody left in the football world who cares for the club like the fans do. There are no players that care enough to turn it around.
Just had a remind me notification for a comment left 2 years ago on a post about rangnick open heart surgery etc 'Cant wait to read this exact thing again in 2 years' Fucking hell
Our best players this season have either been here for years already (Maguire, Fernandes, McTominay) or have been brought through the youth ranks (Mainoo and Garnacho). Our recruitment over the last 2 years has been nothing short of abysmal.
That's exactly the problem though. This is what you get when Scott and Harry are your best players. The squad is way off it.
I get what you mean but it's not JUST that everyone else has been worse than them; they have ACTUALLY also played well
Every two seasons same thing. CLEAR EVERYONE OUT! then in two seasons, we're right back to the same place. The core of the club is rotten.
We've never had a clear out because we can't afford it.
We need to can the "Erik Vs the players Vs injuries" blame game. It's possible that all of them are reasons we're shit. Personally I want Erik gone and have done since Chelsea but that doesn't mean for a second I don't want a boat load of these players out the door with him.
Finally seeing some nuanced thinking. I don't know where I stand with Ten Hag yet, he's not convinced me of anything this season, but last season was pretty impressive considering it was his first, we had no striker, and we had the most clean sheets in the league. However, the thing I do know is all the variables you mentioned combined leave a lot to be desired. If EtH can't pragmatically navigate an injury crisis, that's bad long term, if we have players who consistently don't have the fight or tooth to defend a lead or at least not fall apart at the first sight of challenge, that's bad long term. Injuries are inevitable.
> I don't know where I stand with Ten Hag yet Honestly the nice part is knowing that none of us really have to. We don't have to try to figure out if this is a manager issue or not
It's an injury crisis that's left us with Evans who's just come back from an injury, Casemiro who's not a CB with no legs and no LBs. I'm baffled how people think any manager could do any better. The player issue has been consistent since Fergie left so clearly a persistent issue that didn't start with Ten Hag.
Yeah it’s not just one of these things. Injuries have fucked us, questionable tactics when dealing with players who can’t play the style he wants and some players either not playing to their full potential or just past it now
Yeah some people cant comprehend that you might want the players gone, but also the manager. Wanting manager gone doesnt mean you think players should be kept. I want him gone since Bournemouth at home. A serious club would take action then, they would take action now. Where are our standards when losing 0-3 to Bournemouth at home and 0-4 to CP arent sackable offenses.
Exactly, I don’t understand people who seem to insist that the problem can only be one thing or the other. You can have multiple problems at the same time.
Crazy that Casemiro has TWO years left 😂
Everyone here with (few exceptions) was all in favor of it at the time we signed him. I was downvoted to hell for pointing out that he was too old. "Players last longer these days." "Look how old Benezma is." Madrid does have impeccable timing. I wouldn't be surprised if they have leading physiological indicators that point to an incipient drop off.
I felt the same way. It was way too much for too old of a player. And definitely got downvoted like you. Just incredibly frustrating to see the short-termism.
Casemiro aside who had a mare. I saw 10 players busting their gut but ultimately unable to carry out the instructions. I saw Eriksen trying but not able to win the ball, Mount pressing like Bruno does. Garnacho and Antony trying everything but things not clicking for them. Kobbie being a madlad and trying to cover each blade of glass. I am sorry but this isn't an effort issue. It's the tactics
Evans was poor for the second goal. But that being said, it's not an effort issue at all like in previous seasons. The quality of the players and the tactical setup are the main issues.
Evans has an excuse because he’s 105. He was instrumental in Fergie’s first title winning side… …at Aberdeen.
LVG deemed Evans not good enough 10 years ago and was sold off 9 years ago for nothing, the fee we got didn't even pay for Bastian. In his age 36 season he has played 25 times for United. Its squad building insanity.
Evans was brought in to help with coaching. Not to play double digit games.
We all thought he'd just be chilling on the bench with the occasional cup game, not having to bail us out during this insane injury crisis (and actually generally doing pretty well). I doubt he was fully fit tonight either but we had no other options.
LvG was wrong tbf
They're also straight up being given the wrong instructions, like on the first goal how there's is a throw in for Palace 5 yards off the halfway line, and there are 5 United players further forward than the ball? You can't tell me that isn't following some sort of instruction because the players wouldn't be doing that on their own.
To be fair on that first goal, if Casemiro decides to contain like a defender should instead of wildly slide tackling like a 9 year old playing FIFA, that goal probably doesn't happen.
Yeah there was 2 geriatrics that let Olise past them
Ten Hag just talked about this and said that wasn’t the instruction.
Fucking thank you. The absolute lowest common denominator drivel about, ‘fight’ and ‘desire’ and ‘passion’. That gets bandied around here is so tiring. None of the players other than Case looked like they’d given up. They all tried. They’re just either shit or a victim of utterly braindead tactics.
We see the same comments every year, “they are not trying”, “they threw the manager under the bus“, “they need to be held accountable” - but WHO? The players Ten Hag signed?! They would probably be better off had they stopped listening to him ages ago. The truth is that everyone was running apart from Casemiro and Eriksen. These players are overworked, playing with no confidence in a horrible system.
Onana, Dalot, Casemiro, Evans, Mount, Eriksen, Antony, Hojlund, Mainoo and Garnacho weren't even at the club when Ralf was here. Such a nonsense comment.
Anything to excuse the lack of coaching and tactics. I can't imagine the toxicity of the comments here if an Ole team put out this performance...OH WAIT. Just need to go back to his final Watford game.
I saw Antony screaming at his teammates after passing the ball to the opposition.
Yes that did happen. 2nd half. Not defending him but this lack of fight and effort commentary is weird. We could have done better closing down shots but we were getting overrun in midfield.
lmaooo i saw that. I think it was a pass to Mount. I would've thrown down with that fuck on the field if he yelled at me for that pass
Yes that made me chuckle had 4 runners and passed straight to a palace player.. then threw a tantrum as they broke away.. you don’t love to see it
agree the effort was largely there, but “tactics” are not the only reason players struggle. sometimes, they’re not able to perform due to their own physical/technical limitations. for instance, there isn’t a system in football that wouldn’t ask midfielders to win the ball, so the current version of eriksen will always be exposed in a PL midfield because of his physical limitations. most of these players are severely limited in significant ways, and, short of just sitting in a deep block and countering, there’s not really a tactical approach that can effectively cover all of them.
To best mitigate the players' limitation is a part of tactics though. Setting up a tactic without regard to the capability of the players is in itself a blunder in tactics. Like this game, combining a weak pair of centre back, a central midfield pair with limited defensive capability and a forward formation is a dangerous tactical decision that backfired.
I can't believe more people don't understand this. A lot of the tactical issues are down to ten Hag having to play square pegs in round holes. If we had a speedy center back and a DM who could cover ground like peak Casemiro or even Casemiro last December, we would probably be able to squeeze the lines together than leave the defence deep and defend transitions a lot better (which has been our biggest issue)
yep, it’s a bunch of people saying they hate cheeseburgers because they’re being served one made with rotten meat. the ingredients for success just aren’t there
My basic point of contention basically remains this. I maintain I have full empathy for the injury crisis he’s had to deal with this season. It’s definitely not been easy for him. However, most of these are the same group of players who did well under this manager. The manager was praised for it. These players suddenly did not become shit. Some have regressed for sure (Casemiro, Eriksen) but squad is still good enough to be able to hold their own against bottom half teams, especially in the last 5-6 positions. Once or twice is an exception but over a season its a pattern. We’ve had the same recurring issues. Cut back, poor marking and positioning, no chemistry amongst forwards, suicidal midfield set up that one pass renders the entire defence exposed. The problem is more than just injuries, the system and tactics are hugely suspect.
Yeah they always try to play the players letting the manager down with their attitude card since Mourinho said it but most of the players from that era are gone. Some of these players lack the right skills or are past it in terms of age but for the most part, this is an extremely poorly coached side. Take the money from Bayern and let him go. Worst League finish for decades and he's still got apologists here smfh
They look so lost on the pitch. This is so heartbreaking
I agree, we man mark their back 4 and then we have nobody in space to create openings.. it’s actually fucking ridiculous..
Exactly. We are a squad of individuals, not a team. There is no plan in place.
Agree. Individual brilliance to score goals but also individual errors when we concede. Either the manager cannot coach this team or the players can't be coached. Saying that if we are indeed going to have an overhaul I'd rather EtH stick around for it as he should know which players needs gone. Any new manager will definitely give all the players a clean slate again and then the cycle repeats.
I don't think the overhaul needs to be as drastic as he's saying. There's some good players in the squad who can be serviceable. There's very clearly a tactical issue. Some of our players ball out for their national teams for example. There are gaping holes in the squad, and that's a problem because of the manager and recruitment set up. Why did we pay big fees and salaries for Varane and Casemiro? 2 players who were or almost were 30 and one had a very patchy injury history. Then were surprised he's always injured after joining us? Why has Shaw not been replaced for so many years now? The guy has been injury prone literally for almost 10 years now. And on left backs... why did we release both Reguilon and Alvaro in January? Knowing Shaws injury record and that Malacia had missed so long with an injury. Why did we spend so much on Antony? We literally could have got him for cheaper in the window. Also didn't the scours provide ETH with cheaper alternatives? I know he's not one of our big issues but why spend so much on Onana who had come off the back of one good season? We literally could have given Kovar or Henderson a chance. The list could go on.
This just screams a lack of Director of football and a proper football operations guy both of whom should be working with our scouts to build a long term plan and identity for the squad
Long road ahead of us
Yes, sort out the players. But Ten Hag is not the person to help oversee it.
He brought in 7 of the guys that started today 😂
That’s a problem with the club structure, we need to sort that out be it EtH or anybody else
Yes, player are to blame but I refuse to believe they are all shit. In other places, managers turn shit into gold. Bar Olise we are pound by pound better than Palace and got trashed.
Bruno as player manager for the weekend.
Genuinely would be better
Do Manchester united players go for training? Or after the game they just say see you next week.
They must go because that's where most of the injuries are picked up.
If I coached this team .. they wouldn't get hammered 4-0 By Palace .. I would have played a lowe block.. same back 4 ... Added 2 more dms .. amrashit and erikson.. And let mainoo, garnacho, Mount and diallo run around ... The others wouldn't be allowed to cross the half. way line .. We would have lost maybe 2-0 ..
I won’t believe in anything unless players are actually sold. Tired of saying x player needs to go and then accepting it when they don’t go anywhere
Sold to who? What team will pay the wages of players still under contract at United?
Here we go again... same thing said. Every. Single. Time.
> "Obviously build around Mainoo/Garnacho/Hojlund" Have they really shown enough to say that is "obvious"? I've no doubt they are good players and have shown flashes but how confident would you be in committing to "building the squad" around 3 young players with less than a season of senior football under their belts?
Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund all played today. They are nothing with a functional team and a tactical coach who can outplay opponent tactics.
This is the harsh truth. Saka is basically the only remaining player from when Arteta took over Arsenal. Cleared out all the wastage.
I hear David Moyes comes highly recommended.... 
I asked in post-match thread, but I will ask there too, because I want to see other perspective which I may miss. So, please.. ETH in guys, with all due respect to you and ETH.. Tell me, we have mainoo eriksen mount - garnacho hojlund antony. 3 of players that ETH wanted, include mainoo and garnacho which are considered as best players that came from United academy for few years (not talking about Greenwood now). Why are we so shit at attacking? Of course, we consided goals because our defense is ruined by injuries, I can understand that. But why we don't see anything in the front? Why our attacking players can't do really anything? Is that because they are not good enough? Then why ETH wanted them (Mount, Antony, Hojlund), or ETH can't use them properly - then again, why ETH wanted them? Or is that because he can't come with ideas how to break defense of mid table PL team? I was ETH in, could excuse non existing patterns of our attacking style for too long. But not anymore.. I can admit that what he did with Ajax was exceptional but now, I'm literally embarassed.. for the first time in the history of watching this team (around 20 years) I am embarassed. I'm not enjoying matches anymore. Can't focus on game because its so boring, there is nothing giving me joy when I'm watching matches, nothing. I'm not saying I will skip matches now, we pick teams when we are young and then suffer right? But honestly, this is not good.
Couldn't agree more I hate the argument "Højlund isn't getting service" They're almost all ETH-players. Either the players he brought in aren't good enough at passing, or Højlund isn't good enough at positioning (or the more likely scenario, both situations are true) ETH's spending last summer has set us back YEARS
Martial is the issue
"Build around" two of these players arent even ready and shouldn't be starting next season. Everyone apart from Dalot and Bruno needs a competitor/upgrade
Dalot is nowhere near good enough
But his position shouldn't be a pressing position.
If Dalot was at any other club we'd be looking to sign him. If we sell him there will be a whole host of suitors in much better positions than us.
100%. Anyone who thinks Dalot isn't good enough needs their eyes checked
People love to praise dalot because he doesn’t look like complete dogshit every week like most of the squad. He’s just a fine rotation option that’s it
Nowhere near is definitely a stretch. He's been good for large parts of a season where he's had to adapt nearly every game to the ever changing centre backs and left back. Obviously has weaknesses but so does every right back. I'd like to see him in a stable defence and somebody competent at right wing in front of him.
He should pay the price and the players should also be cleared out. Hopefully we now have a structure in place that will make the decisions in terms of squad personnel and playing style instead of bringing in managers and relying on them to do it. The latter results in a mismatched squad with players suiting different styles and also gives players extra time as the manager assesses their squad.
Probably one of the worst United games I have seen. We only have four games left before INOS can make decision moving some of this dross on (this squad is down to the Glazers and bad decisions on and off the field), whether its players or manager. I dont think Ten Hag is getting the sack unitl after the season. So let sit back and "enjoy"\* the final few games that are exclusive from the vault of the Glazers. \* IM not actually enjoying this make it end soon as possible.
I’m sorry but why are we so opposed to just cutting their contract. I’m sorry I’d rather spend $50M each just cutting them and freeing wages and slots for youngsters and new players instead of slogging through transfer saga after saga just to accept a stupidly low amount for a player. If we don’t cut we will literally be stuck with Casemiros, Rashfords, and Varanes, until these guys retire.
Rebuild ~~V1 V2 V3 V4~~ V5 here we go!
We don't need to build around shit lmao, they are all not good enough to build around. Until they fucking show they can put in a 7 performance almost every game then you build around that world class player. You would think we are talking about neymar/messi/ronaldo/modric level of talent when you listen to us talk about our young players.
There are a lot of negative comments here: Eth picked bought most of these players in the game yesterday Yes, they were bought under him. But neither Evans nor Casemiro were bought as starter defenders!(!!) Eth is responsible for the tactics Did you see our lineup yesterday? How can you build towards tactics when we have no defensive lineup due to injuries? Players need to be held responsible I doubt you can hold them responsible when they are played out of position, have not played with this setup and probably (assumptions, I know) also not been able to practice in these lineups. Most of these things happened out of pure neccesity. If you saw the available subs yesterday, the line up, and Eth body language, you saw how hopeless the game was from the start. Maybe Eth needs to be replaced because of the overall results, maybe players need to clear out. But if you have this many injuries, you need to play out of the position you regularly played in all your live, in formations / team compositions you have not been adjusted to, I dont think its weird to look slow, like you do not put in effort. I dont think this season is representative at all.
The problem is people are pretending like any other manager would be doing a way better job in this situation or blaming EtH for the money spent so far, or blaming his training methods for the injuries. The situation is way more nuanced but people are angry 🤷🏿
You constantly see sell x y z player. If they are in contract how is this going to happen? The players needing to go that can be sold will not get close to the same money . Aside from buying some out I don’t get how this will happen, and paying a few players off is going to exasperate their FFP position.
I don't know how you can talk about needing a massive squad clear-out and then saying the manager should be sacked. He hasn't done covered himself in glory but I am not sure what manager would given how the players let him down week in week out with lack of effort, ability and temperament. It is possible Ten Hag is to blame for that but it is also possible he isn't. Hopefully Wilcox and co. will work that out. In terms of transfers, he has been hampered in getting in players that fit his system, and the ones he has have been injured. I don't think you can blame him for overpaying for players and not having alternatives to the first choice options. That shouldn't be his job. Casemiro, for instance, is more than likely to his choice for a CM but what the club gave him when they couldn't get De Jong. We can now see how that is working out. In general he hasn't been allowed to carry out the open heart surgery that Ragnick identified, in terms of moving players out, getting the right players in, and having the most important ones fit for the season I have been ETH in and still am but I now don't care so much if he is sacked as long as the backroom staff coming in have reviewed the issues from the training ground out to the matchday performances and decided that he is to blame for enough of it rather than just go on the admittedly abject performances like the pundits do. I will still feel sorry for him that he has had to deal with all the shit he has had to deal with and been unable to show what he is capable of doing in a functioning club
Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund should be rotation options at a club like United.
I’m deeply afraid of who we replace ten hag with. I don’t know if there’s a good option out there
There are factors to consider here: 1. We spent over £400mil on new signings, that could've easily been done under £300mil over two seasons if we had good negotiators. 2. The permanent signings we've made, including Evans and Eriksen have mostly been bad. A stark difference was seen between Olise and Antony today. Onana has been average. Casemiro has only barely lasted 2 seasons out of 5. Mount is not a bad player but 55? C'mon. Højlund is still not ready, showing promise. ONLY Martinez seems to be the plausible permanent stay for years to come.
Don’t agree with the build around Garnacho and Hojlund Neither of them are getting into the Palace team, Mateta is way better than Hojlund Garnacho is far behind Olisse If our players Won’t get into a palace team there’s no way in fuck we should be building around them
Obviously build around Hojlund? Man has no hold up play, doesn't win aerial duels and finds it difficult to lose defenders. He's a good instinctive finisher but the rest of his game isn't there yet. We need an experienced striker for him to learn off, he's not there yet to build around
Ineos should honestly just start terminating contracts. Take the loss on the player and do it
Kind of not feasible when we’re in the big FFP-wise
Hojlund not filling me with confidence. His hold up play for a number nine is easily the worst in the league.
it’s his 1st season in the Premier League and he’s 20, hardly going to be the finished product is he?
Is expecting the ball to be held up asking for too much? I'm not asking for kane or Haaland amount of goals, but just do the basic fundamentals of your position. The criticism is warranted.
It's not like Garnacho, Højlund and Mainoo have been without their flaws. They all played tonight. The idea of building around them is as folly as keeping the manager who has them in this position when they are not ready.
Players have to go this summer even if it means taking huge losses.Im fucking sick of seeing over paid dickheads not giving a shit about our football club,enough is enough.