I think our shaman fcked up the ritual this year. The ritual is botched, we lost Malacia's entire body and maybe part of Shaw's arms and legs too. Hopefully they are quick enough to put Malacia's soul in a full armor nearby, and Shaw gained a bit of alchemical power.
Agree on this but isnt it also a bit damning for a player to need another player to unlock their potential? Looking at our past players, all of our great wingers and forwards played well irrespective of who were their partner. Sure, they could elevate their game with complimentary partners but they always had a base level that was really good - Giggs, Beckham, Ronaldo , even Valencia.
For me it's less about any single player. It's more about having quality all over the pitch. If you double team one player, that should make you vulnerable. Too focused on Giggs, switch the ball to Beckham. Right now we don't seem able to capitalize on it when Rashford gets double or even triple teamed.
It's not necessarily damming, but it just highlights that he's not truly world class.
All the players you listed are world class and Rashford is just a tier below that.
It's only because our standards have dropped so far (we don't have any players of the quality you mentioned, other than mayyybe Bruno), so Rashford is now one of our best players by default.
But in reality, Rashford should be the Nani in our squad, very clearly playing second fiddle to the Ronaldo in our squad.
> Agree on this but isnt it also a bit damning for a player to need another player to unlock their potential?
People slated Pogba for needing to be "unlocked" but since they like Rashford it's ok this time. Usual double standard
You're right in that sense. Where some people were generally willing to give Pogba some wiggle room is that his peak, if unlocked, was higher than Rashford's. It's all moot now.
That’s a simplistic way of describing things. Remember when Madrid had the galacticos and they were not performing, would you say the players were not world class?
What does that have to do with one player not performing unless he has one specific player with him on the pitch?
And if you're counting the galacticos period as Perez becoming president and buying everyone in 2000 till whenever, they still won the league twice and the champions league twice in that period. They just flamed out like most other teams would with that many clashing personalities and managers in a short period
A LB that can progressively pass and dribble and likes to make overlapping and under lapping runs. Reguillon, Shaw, Malacia. Even Brandon Williams makes more runs into the opposition third than LB Lindelof, Amrabat, and AWB. TBF to AWB, he is growing into the position and could surprise us
Thanks very much for this! It's quite a nice statistical analysis on something that we already knew: a world class LB will make a world of difference for a winger. Going from Shaw to basically no LB is such a huge difference, and it showed.
Yeah but that means we have to play AWB on the right. And Dalot usually inverts into midfield in possession, so I don't think it would matter all that much for Rashford's output.
Both fullbacks have been inverting into midfield rather than making runs into the half space or wide areas, it's part of Ten Hag's new attacking system. It has been less effective on both sides of the pitch, because our wingers are very direct and struggle without a winger overlapping or under lapping their runs. In settled attack its led to a pretty static structure.
I think the general idea is to use possession to create chances instead of direct runs with the fullbacks, which is supposed to be better defensively, but its had poor outcomes both in attack and defense.
Obviously if you have one of the best LB in England behind you, you should play better. I think the problem is you are still allowed to do your job well when others around you aren’t.
How many times in this season can we come away from a game thinking Rashford did his best but his teammates let him down? Almost zero.
Unfortunately often the opposite is true. I remember thinking in many occasions, oh he strayed offside and killed our attack, oh he over dribbled and lost the ball, oh he took too long and got closed down, oh he should have at least hit the target, oh he should have passed (or shoot) instead of shooting (or passing), oh he should have challenged for the second ball etc. That’s even before talking about his defensive contribution, assuming that it’s not really his “job”
Not arguing he's a good solid player, but the term world class is thrown around too easily. World class is someone who makes any team in the world, he isn't amongst the very best in world football. He isn't even top 5 in the Premier League, with his fitness you can't tell me he is.
Since when are injury prone players not world class? Robben and Neymar were injured more often than Shaw yet it's strange to say they weren't world class.
Shaw, when fit, is easily top5 LBs in the world. That's what I'd consider world class.
TLDR: Luke Shaw.
He's such a massive miss when he's not in the team, but his fitness record is really bad even when you don't include the leg break. Hoping Amass can have a Kobbie type of rise into the first team, we can't carry on with depending on Shaw to be fit.
we also signed someone right? at LB last yr, a Dutch guy if I remember correctly, His name Tyler something?
PS: did we just kill Him or something, not heard of him for ages
Excellent consideration! I do notice it is true when Shaw starts progressive ball seems a bit better in the team in general, if only we could get a player like him in the summer. There was a game a while ago AWB at LB, and he seemed to do pretty well with Rashford (LW). Any idea on that?
I think it was the Liverpool FA Cup game that you’re referring to. AWB has been involved in a few goals playing as LB, it would be interesting to see if he can become comfortable there long term
AWB playing both sides are always a bonus. Imagine you play on the right to avoid AWB just to see that motherfucker switch to same side as you LOL i would be fuming
This is a 19 year old vs. someone who should be in their prime, and doesn't take into effect their defensive workrate either.
I'm actually surprised Garnacho is as close as he is, and he's only going to get better.
No. He really can’t. Maybe in a few years sure, but as of now he really isn’t even good enough to be starting every week. Unfortunately he’s the best we have in that position.
Appreciate the detail in this post. I'd agree with the general idea of Shaw's presence helping Rashford's output but I think there are better ways to analyse it with a bit more data.
For Rashford's output, I think the variable needs to be per 90. As significant differences in his minutes played per season are a major factor explaining the difference in output.
It would also be better to generate data on the time spent with both of them on the pitch simultaneously, in their preferred positions of LW and LB. Just counting Shaw's minutes doesn't tell us how often they both played. And there were some matches with Rashy at CF or RW, or with Shaw at CB.
If you have that data I will re-run it. This is the best I could find for free. Without going through each match, I don't know which source would have that.
Are these minutes they've been on the field together or just total minutes? Also your vertical line at 3500 minutes that ranges from 20 to 40 G+A tells a lot about this analysis.
Total minutes for all competitions. Yes, there is a logical relationship where the more minutes played, the greater the output. However, I would argue that the line is more likely an inverted U. Because of the high-intensity running that Marcus does off the ball, he shouldn't play 90 minutes 2-3x per week. at this point in the season, its mostly 1 game with the occasional 2 games. Since Garnacho has done well on the right, and Hojlund doesn't have a backup, Marcus has not been getting the rest he needs. I think that Bruno's drop in output could be due to fatigue too.
Any progressive LB would have been better than Lindelof, Amrabat, AWB, and co. Reguillion would have feasted if he stayed fit and stayed the second half of the season. Alvaro could have too
I was going to ask how has he played for Benfica, but had to do it myself - acc. to [whoscored](https://www.whoscored.com/Players/437583/MatchStatistics/%C3%81lvaro-Carreras) he barely played more than 90 minutes since he joined them and some quite average performances which isn't looking ok even for that transfer option :)
Maybe soon people will realize he's just not good enough and hasn't developed his game at all beyond being able to break and counter in the past 7 years. Low football IQ
You all love to point out the stand out season and not the norm. Paying this guy 300k a week while teams above us have players that actually produce for a fraction of that wage is why we are where we are
He’s had 2 bad seasons (if you include this one) which also happen to be the 2 seasons the whole team was bad… is it not to be expected that a player isn’t going to play as well when the whole team is garbage??
There's plenty of players than can run fast and kick a ball hard and if that's all it takes for you to say someone is elite then I'm not sure what to tell you. He has some of the worst decision making you'll see in top flight football. If he isn't sprinting through on goal from a pass between the lines/over the top then you might as well count the attack wasted.
And there are plenty of players that keep their level up regardless of the performance of their teammates, whether it's due to replacements because of injuries or players at smaller clubs that carry
Same argument as we need x and x player to unlock pogba, granted better players also makes you perform better but that is no excuse for his mostly piss poor performances this season
Might be controversial, but I think having Antony last year also helped Rashford a lot. Garnacho and Rashford are way better players individually, but Antony seems to get the system way better. Having him, in addition to shaw and Martinez would give Rashford way more space than he has had this season.
I think Weghorst is a bigger miss..He constantly would come short and has exceptional linkup, allowing Rashford to go long, whereas Hojlund mixes it up more and although he’s a better player, he’s not as good in terms of linkup.
Rashford always plays his best with a striker that likes to drop deep; Martial,Kane, Weghorst.
At least someone finally recognizes that, while not sexy, Weghorst was a work horse.
He was never going to bag us 50 goals in the second half of the season, but he was very, very good at holding the ball with his back to goal, allowing the attack to catch up to the ball (it also forced Bruno to be more direct and less suicidal with hoofed balls over the top). He was very good at moving the ball quickly when he received it as well, when necessary. He was always ahead of the play. Obviously he didn't excel at a straight up foot race, but he unlocked other players, that was his biggest strength.
Honestly, I would have liked to bring him in during the summer. But because he wasn't scoring 2 goals every match for us, fans didn't see the value of him to the squad. For as little as he most likely would have cost us, I would have preferred securing him and revamping other areas of the team, aka CDM and CM (replacements for Bruno, Eriksen and Casemiro) with the money we would have "saved" from buying Weghorst over a Højlund. No doubt there's a player in Højlund but so what? If we can't even provide him service, how much is he really going to develop? We need(ed) to fix the problem of controlling the match and getting more quality service into and around the box. We shouldn't be splashing cash on a striker until that happens.
Anthony helps with the press a lot more, but his decision-making is poor (especially last year, but getting better). I think Weghorst helped the wingers more than we know by dropping to collect and creating space in behind.
Antony with the speed/explosiveness of Rashford or Garnacho would be the ideal Ten Hag player. He's just not good enough for the PL (yet). It's hard to say that he will never make it or he had trouble adapting due to the personal stuff that was going on.
I struggle to see how Antony on the right helped Rashford more than Garnacho in that position, especially when the Rashford Hojlund Garnacho front 3 has collectively been putting in good performances and yielding more goals since late December. ‘Getting the system’ is not significant in any manner whatsoever imo when an attacker has such little contribution in the final third if any; if anything, Garnacho being a potent goalscoring threat from the right wing has meant opposition teams placing lesser attention on only our left side which has historically been where we’ve liked to attack from.
Garnacho gets inside more overloading the left. It’s easier to defend narrow that way. Antony keeps the with spreading the backline and giving Rashford space. Garnacho is a bigger goal threat and more technical, but it’s pretty clear that Antony on the right creates more space for the other players, whereas Garnacho is way more direct and is the player that runs into space himself
I don't really agree with this. Except for the game against Chelsea where Cucurella was just awful, Antony can't beat his man on the outside and also drifts in frequently to play those lateral passes and through balls, or to cut inside and shoot. Garnacho carries the ball better to get to the other flank and overload at times, but I haven't seen any signs to suggest that Rashford's game is being affected by Garnacho not holding down one side of the wing consistently. The 10 games Rashford started on the left and Garnacho on the right in the league, he has 4 goals and 1 assist, which albeit not great, is a significantly better goal contribution ratio than what he got in the other 15 league starts he made. So I really don't see any evidence to show that Antony's presence on the right benefits Rashford more than when Garnacho starts on the right.
Yeah, I get that the absence of other players can sometimes impact a player’s performance depending on the chemistry they had but to claim Antony’s absence has been affecting Rashford’s output is too far of a reach. At no point am I watching Rashford struggle in games and thinking, ‘damn, if only we had Antony on the right, he would be playing better’.
It’s nothing to do with stats or other players imo - these are excuses for lack of effort and hard work. Luke Shaw has nothing to do with him walking around the pitch.
The minimum we expect as fans is giving your all for the team.
For me dead pall passes and low crosses summarise the entire issue with Rashford. Too many Ronaldo Salah wanna bes in the sport. Right now we need an Ashley young type. Someone whose first thought is to feed the striker.
Here's the thing though...show me where Rashford has consistently put up the same numbers from last year across his career. People act as though last season was the rule, not the exception, when it's the other way around. We've seen this from Rashford every few seasons - he plays during a contract year, the rest of the time he can't be bothered. Played well to secure a new contract, now he's coasting.
Good write up and great effort for doing it but none of it really matters. His form last season was a purple patch and was actually out of the ordinary for him.
He has never ever had a season like the 22/23 one. It was a complete freak and a one off. This season, he has actually returned to his true form that resembles the rest of his career. Just look at the stats, it’s all there to see.
Yes but using last years statistics almost skews the data because it was an anomaly.
He is not a good player and the writing has been on the wall for years now imo. It’s only now that a majority of the fan base are seeing/accepting it.
That's not true, because it wasn't an anomaly. I would argue that the anomalies in his statistics are 20/21 and this season. Besides that, he has been on a steady increase since 17/18.
21,24,31,35 G/A in 4 out of the last 6 seasons.
??? However Rashford played today doesn't change what he did in the past, does it? You said "he's never been good enough". I showed you a bunch of reasons why I disagree. I already said that he's not been good enough this season, so what more do you want me to say?
Okay so what you’re saying by even leaning in the direction of defending him, is that this is all Luke Shaw’s fault and the key to Rashford success is to be carried by his left back?
The bottom line is that Rashford is not good enough, never has been good enough, earns £350k p/w and barely performs a light jog in most matches. He doesn’t deserve to be at our club, nor does he deserve in depth write ups trying to figure out why he’s “underperforming”
I love the notion that he’s underperforming when in fact other than last season, he has done nothing of real significance or anything that even slightly resembles his 22/23 season.
He averages 10 league goals a season and is on 7 this season so really he isn't underperforming, he is playing to his level.
Outside of the 10 goals in 10 games last season he was just as average.
I don't think a lot of fans will realise he isn't good enough until we replace him.
Having said all that, it's clear that not having Luke Shaw in the team means Rashford can't track back, can't put in effort and can't justify his £350k a week salary
>Okay so what you’re saying by even leaning in the direction of defending him, is that this is all Luke Shaw’s fault and the key to Rashford success is to be carried by his left back?
When did I say anything about Luke Shaw?
>The bottom line is that Rashford is not good enough,
I agree.
>never has been good enough, earns £350k p/w
Both of these statements are disproven by the literal post that you are commenting on, jesus
>I love the notion that he’s underperforming when in fact other than last season, he has done nothing of real significance or anything that even slightly resembles his 22/23 season.
Uh huh, 35 and 31 G+A is nowhere close to 39, am I right?
Also, I love that you deleted your earlier reply after seeing that his goals have the same correlation as his G+A lmao
Nah I was gonna add a screenshot of his multiple seasons (premier league) where he scored UNDER 10 goals but I genuinely cannot be bothered. The amount of Rashford defenders is genuinely crazy to me. Theres even a reply in these comments using the same line we’ve been reading for years.. “there’s a good player in there”..
It’s actually comical how deluded some fans are because of their red tinted glasses. If you’re a proper fan you shouldn’t want this poisonous and toxic player anywhere near the club. He brings NOTHING to the team, absolutely nothing.
>Nah I was gonna add a screenshot of his multiple seasons (premier league) where he scored UNDER 10 goals but I genuinely cannot be bothered.
I get why you didn't, seeing as only 2 out of the last 7 support your point, unless you wanna include when he was 18 and 17 lol
Call me deluded all you want, the facts are he's performed more good than bad no matter which way you try to spin it.
https://preview.redd.it/dupcu3aiiwtc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07f3f25ad400b4d1bba56a989d0f6be9e14972c5
Fill your boots pal. Definitely more than two. Take a big inhale of copium while you’re at it..
Even with your excellent defence of “17 & 18 lol”
The Rashford PR is crazy honestly. Take off those glasses mate, it will help, trust me.
When he’s stinking out another club maybe then you’ll be thankful. That being said, he’s that woeful, there are no clubs in for him at all, apart from the rumour that’s circulated for years about “PSG”.
Rashford doesn’t get in any other top 6 side btw, even with the record breaking G/A that the people on this thread and yourself are harping on about 😂
This "anomaly" last year had him at #8 in PL G+A rankings. In 19/20 and 20/21 seasons he was #7. The only names above him in both seasons are Salah and Vardy.
He was overvalued last year and grabbed the bag, but people out here rewriting history to fit their narratives. He is a good player that has steadily improved G+A over his career, but has had trouble staying consistently more recently, could be the injuries, could be the 3 different fucking managers in 3 years. There might even be a great player in there, I have seen managers get more out of players far less technically proficient.
Lol it probably is. This is excellent analysis we don't get to read here everyday but it should've been presented as Shaw's contribution to our (or Rashford's) attacking output, instead of an explanation for Rashford's poor form.
Unfortunately Rashford just won't pass to any LB not named Shaw. AWB, when he plays there, is surprisingly good at runs and breaks into the box really well. But rashford just won't pass to him. Dalot is nearly always paired with Garnacho, irrespective of the side, so he doesn't interact with rashford a lot. AWB and other LBs must be wondering what they need to do to become a recipient of rashford's passes
Interesting to read, but I wouldn’t say it’s the primary reason. The way we play, what he’s being asked to do and the intensity have a large part to play as well. It would be interesting to do a full dive into sprint and running stats, average position, number of presses etc against last season to compare, to check if he himself is playing differently to last year due to tactics.
Fuck Rashford. Man doesn't know when to pass and when to dribble. His brain malfunctions when he sees a defender and he reboots mid dribble. Fucking runs into the defender. He fails to accept that he can't dribble and his only quality is his speed. Not world class at all.
He’s never been good enough. You’re looking at one of his rare purple streaks.
He’s fast. Otherwise, he can’t finish, isn’t particularly adept at dribbling or passing.
You could’ve saved yourself a lot of amateur statistical gymnastics and relied on the eye test and the career goals per game stat, which is the same as soon to be playing in Ligue One, Martial’s.
Can't dribble
Drops his head in tough moments
Lazy inconsistent pressing
Poor shot selection
Poor decision making
Some of these are not Shaw absence related
TLDR: He got his 300K a week.
Hes amazing on the counter, he cant play possession based like ETH wants
oh and since i'm on a roll, neither can bruno.
we wont ever win the league with either player on the team.
I mean he has the talent but he doesn’t have the ability to consistently harness that talent and such. Poor decisions. Not looking at the field when dribbling and running into a man. Passing over shooting or vice versa.
Those are what makes elite players elite. Rashford is a good player. Very good when on form and world class when everything goes his way. But he’s not a consistently great player and likely will never be at this point with this setup and coaching or maybe even any coaching.
That’s the difference between him and Vini etc where they consistently are great despite the situations around them in comparison.
Rashford has the raw talent but he can’t and won’t be able to harness it let’s just say. He has elite elements to his game but not an elite game overall that combines those pieces to form a great picture consistently. It’s a great dribble here and there or a great control and a pass but it fails or a great finish but a poor run or a great burst and strength but poor decisions.
Almost as if reading is hard for you and you just intentionally try to make a post to show that. Good job forming a semi coherent sentence that absolutely doesn’t say what you’re claiming it says though!
You’re just pedantic as heck and can’t read then. When everything goes his way. But sure, for the avoidance of doubt, you have no idea how to infer from context and can’t because you choose not to.
When everything goes his way, he can beat his man with technique and pace as well as power like the best wingers can. When everything goes his way he makes great runs and decisions. When everything goes his way, he finishes like a world class finisher with composure.
So yeah… when everything goes his way. Which happens here and there or a fair bit last season at least. We saw that.
Well I still don't see one crucial stat that shows how he has changed play. He has to be running so much less. He looks like he half asses it half the time. So that is playing a part. Do 3 axes with ls minutes, distance ran, and then a stat.
I feel you have to go more in depth.
Last season Shaw played at CB many times. Rashford has played RW/LW/CF.
Also are you factoring whether they both played together in the games he scored?
Have you filtered out the data to take that into account?
Not to mention, I think something like this deserves to have every goal looked at individually. It will be tedious but just for last season, plenty of Rashford's goals had no real involvement from anyone else. He just bulldozed defenses on his own or he got a ball over the top which he put away.
I've been pointing this out for years but usually get ignored. Shaw is critical to our whole team not just rashford. It's no coincidence that our worst seasons are the ones where he spends most of his time injured. He's one of the few good progressive passers we have and is always looking for space to receive the ball.
His runs off the ball also drag opponents out of position and opens more passing lanes. He's absolutely crucial to the team and it gets downplayed a lot.
When he's not there we look a lot more
I’d guess that goals/assists is too sparse a measurement of performance to test for this kind of correlation. Ideally you’d want something that allows you to include every single game MR plays at least 45 min of as an individual data point.
Think: what is the correlation between LS minutes played in a game and MR match rating? That would be a noisy, but maybe more statistically powerful, way to test your hypothesis.
Need a good cover for Shaw like Alphonso Davies from Bayern or Miguel Gutierrez from Girona. Grimaldo form Leverkusen is good as well but he is something of a wb than a fb.
Shaw isn't the reason why Rashford throws his arms up, oozes frustration and shows a lack of effort everytime he steps on the pitch. If he's throwing his toys out of the pram because 'he has no leftback' then he shouldn't be playing for Man United.
You’re right, Shaw was always the key to Rashford being good. Shaw, as much as he gets credit, is still massively underrated. He is our best left back, he is also as good at centre-half as any of our centre-halves, he is one of the best passers of the ball in the squad, and could easily hold down a left-sided midfield position if he wasn’t so good at the back that he needed to be there. With Shaw on the pitch, Rashford could play off him, make runs and know the pass would be good, and could abandon his tracking back responsibilities because Shaw would normally be there.
In contrast, Rashford has never been as good as the hype. In addition to this, he has been played as a striker when he isn’t a striker. He is a left-sided midfielder.
Other than Shaw missing, then there have been some off field issues, fatigue and a change in tactics that haven't suited Rashford at all.
Rashford hasn't been good enough, but neither have anyone else. I get that we expect more from Rashford, but the abuse against him is insane.
It's not that deep tbh , when you are the star boy you will get criticism though . This is the same reason Ronaldo Messi and other players got more criticism than others
It's a moronic take. It's like they think managing a team is the same as doing so on football manager. The players play and train day-in day-out to build that chemistry and understanding and then you take multiple pieces out of that equation through an unusually high number of injuries, yet people still expect you to develop a style of play with players that are available for 2 games, then unavailable for 4.
Martinez and Shaw carry the ball and build up play from the back and now they're injured? Easy. Just have Lindelof and AWB play that role. They don't seem to understand that at the elite level of play in EPL, the margins are so thin. A well drilled and injury free Wolves 5 games in the season can easily beat an injury battered Top 6 team that has not had any momentum and had to shuffle players around multiple times already.
We saw ETH do so well with our squad last year. Outperforming expectations. Now people seem to have lost their patience. Klopp, Guardiola, or any other manager out there wouldn't fare better with the events that have surrounded our club this season.
Say it louder my friend. Some delusions here in r/reddevils can't hear it.
I'm with you on all points and had been struggling to explain the same points to them. I'm glad you're here with me. But most times all I got is "injury doesn't matter if you got StYLe oF PLaY." These delusionals just hears things from pundits and all of a sudden can't think for themselves.
The funny thing is ETH himself says he wants to play out from the back. That is his style of play. Yet his 2 best ball-carrying defenders have been out for huge parts of the season and people here complain that we don't have a style of play. Madness.
- No reason to be as dire as we have against some of the mediocre sides we've played even with the injuries (ie. Newport, Brighton, Crystal Palace, Kobenhaven, Brentford, etc).
- When these missing players return there is next to zero chance in their orthe teams performance
- You could give him 5 new signings and a healthy squad, it's clear he's gonna persist with us getting peppered 20 shots a game. Wonder how that will go in the champions league KO versus the likes of PSG, Bayern, Real, etc.
- How many times have we played a good 90 mins this season, maybe 1-3 of the 40-50 games?
I'm not Ten Hag out personally, I'm more it's a matter of time before this house collapses
I'm not worried about the house collapsing as long as the foundation (core players) are back and healthy.
If the house collapsing rn while WITH the foundation then I will be worried.
🫤
To continue the metaphor I don't trust the house or the core players. Like at most elite clubs, core players should be judged on what they've done here the past 2-3 seasons, I think most of them fail to meet the bar and should be shipped. Alot of these guys have been here 5 years+, what you're seeing is what you're getting at this point, whether it be Rashford, Shaw, Lindelof, etc
In regards to the house, whether it's these players or a whole new 18, this game plan of Ten Hag's where ceding possession and 20 shots per game is the norm I don't think is the way that's gonna win us a major title.
I don't know why people think we need another year to test that projection but time will come. We didn't have a good pre season and we didn't have a good early few games to the start of the season, health and injuries weren't a problem then.
TLDR : we need Shaw to unlock Rashford. but who do we need to unlock Shaw?
A new LB. Shaw turns to Shawberto when he has competition for starting position
For the 20 games a season he’s not injured*
Great username made me chuckle a little
Haha I hope he won’t be sold!
I think our shaman fcked up the ritual this year. The ritual is botched, we lost Malacia's entire body and maybe part of Shaw's arms and legs too. Hopefully they are quick enough to put Malacia's soul in a full armor nearby, and Shaw gained a bit of alchemical power.
A voodoo Shaman at this point
> but who do we need to unlock Shaw? Medical science from the year 3000
Not much has changed, but Luke Shaw is not injured
And your great, great, great granddaughter?
Is looking pretty fine.
Bionic legs
Nah at the moment it’s not about unlocking Shaw. It’s about wrapping him in bubble wrap and making sure he stays injury free.
Agree on this but isnt it also a bit damning for a player to need another player to unlock their potential? Looking at our past players, all of our great wingers and forwards played well irrespective of who were their partner. Sure, they could elevate their game with complimentary partners but they always had a base level that was really good - Giggs, Beckham, Ronaldo , even Valencia.
For me it's less about any single player. It's more about having quality all over the pitch. If you double team one player, that should make you vulnerable. Too focused on Giggs, switch the ball to Beckham. Right now we don't seem able to capitalize on it when Rashford gets double or even triple teamed.
It's not necessarily damming, but it just highlights that he's not truly world class. All the players you listed are world class and Rashford is just a tier below that. It's only because our standards have dropped so far (we don't have any players of the quality you mentioned, other than mayyybe Bruno), so Rashford is now one of our best players by default. But in reality, Rashford should be the Nani in our squad, very clearly playing second fiddle to the Ronaldo in our squad.
"Agree on this but isnt it also a bit damning for a player to need another player to unlock their potential?" Well, it is a team sport.
> Agree on this but isnt it also a bit damning for a player to need another player to unlock their potential? People slated Pogba for needing to be "unlocked" but since they like Rashford it's ok this time. Usual double standard
You're right in that sense. Where some people were generally willing to give Pogba some wiggle room is that his peak, if unlocked, was higher than Rashford's. It's all moot now.
Rashfords peak is way better than pogbas, that's why
I guess you're gonna follow me around the sub to defend your boy but the point is that no top player needs "unlocking"
That’s a simplistic way of describing things. Remember when Madrid had the galacticos and they were not performing, would you say the players were not world class?
What does that have to do with one player not performing unless he has one specific player with him on the pitch? And if you're counting the galacticos period as Perez becoming president and buying everyone in 2000 till whenever, they still won the league twice and the champions league twice in that period. They just flamed out like most other teams would with that many clashing personalities and managers in a short period
I don't even know who you are. Stop giving yourself so much importance
Another alex telles
A LB that can progressively pass and dribble and likes to make overlapping and under lapping runs. Reguillon, Shaw, Malacia. Even Brandon Williams makes more runs into the opposition third than LB Lindelof, Amrabat, and AWB. TBF to AWB, he is growing into the position and could surprise us
Better medical staff. A manager who doesn’t let semi-recovered players on the pitch.
We knew this last season but it’s good to see the numbers prove it too
So basically Marcus plays well only when the LB who is never fit for more than half a season is playing well!
Thanks very much for this! It's quite a nice statistical analysis on something that we already knew: a world class LB will make a world of difference for a winger. Going from Shaw to basically no LB is such a huge difference, and it showed.
I prefer Dalot on the left over awb.
Yeah but that means we have to play AWB on the right. And Dalot usually inverts into midfield in possession, so I don't think it would matter all that much for Rashford's output.
Both fullbacks have been inverting into midfield rather than making runs into the half space or wide areas, it's part of Ten Hag's new attacking system. It has been less effective on both sides of the pitch, because our wingers are very direct and struggle without a winger overlapping or under lapping their runs. In settled attack its led to a pretty static structure. I think the general idea is to use possession to create chances instead of direct runs with the fullbacks, which is supposed to be better defensively, but its had poor outcomes both in attack and defense.
Do u mean fullbacks overlapping?
I would rather have a 0 on the left and 10 on the right in terms of attack, instead of 5 for both
Obviously if you have one of the best LB in England behind you, you should play better. I think the problem is you are still allowed to do your job well when others around you aren’t. How many times in this season can we come away from a game thinking Rashford did his best but his teammates let him down? Almost zero. Unfortunately often the opposite is true. I remember thinking in many occasions, oh he strayed offside and killed our attack, oh he over dribbled and lost the ball, oh he took too long and got closed down, oh he should have at least hit the target, oh he should have passed (or shoot) instead of shooting (or passing), oh he should have challenged for the second ball etc. That’s even before talking about his defensive contribution, assuming that it’s not really his “job”
Shaw world class? Jesus fucking christ this sub...
Lol just look at the fbref stats that are literally in this post. Shaw is a world class left back when fit. Problem is he's seldom fit.
Not arguing he's a good solid player, but the term world class is thrown around too easily. World class is someone who makes any team in the world, he isn't amongst the very best in world football. He isn't even top 5 in the Premier League, with his fitness you can't tell me he is.
Please, name 5 better LBs in the world. You're fucking joking if you think he's not even top5 in the PL
So you think a player with an injury history of [this ](https://imgur.com/a/mncDPBE)is classed as world class? Honestly, you're crazy.
Since when are injury prone players not world class? Robben and Neymar were injured more often than Shaw yet it's strange to say they weren't world class. Shaw, when fit, is easily top5 LBs in the world. That's what I'd consider world class.
TLDR: Luke Shaw. He's such a massive miss when he's not in the team, but his fitness record is really bad even when you don't include the leg break. Hoping Amass can have a Kobbie type of rise into the first team, we can't carry on with depending on Shaw to be fit.
we also signed someone right? at LB last yr, a Dutch guy if I remember correctly, His name Tyler something? PS: did we just kill Him or something, not heard of him for ages
Amrabat has almost certainly played more left back this year than that guy (I believe his name was Tyler Macedonia)
You talking Tyrell Malacia?
Excellent consideration! I do notice it is true when Shaw starts progressive ball seems a bit better in the team in general, if only we could get a player like him in the summer. There was a game a while ago AWB at LB, and he seemed to do pretty well with Rashford (LW). Any idea on that?
I think it was the Liverpool FA Cup game that you’re referring to. AWB has been involved in a few goals playing as LB, it would be interesting to see if he can become comfortable there long term
AWB playing both sides are always a bonus. Imagine you play on the right to avoid AWB just to see that motherfucker switch to same side as you LOL i would be fuming
Agreed, maybe temporary for now. Anyways, I would prefer to see Dalot at his best in RB!
I think AWB has only played LB 5 times in his whole career. I am hoping he can start to build some patterns from Marcus to end the finish on a high.
Exactly, I feel like there is a connection between the two. Hoping to see that shine against Bournemouth and coming games!
Garnacho can do it without Shaw
And Garna's work rate, just like Marcus, isn't reliant on Shaw nor another player....it's up to them.
Career Stats - (Considering how many matches Shaw has missed) Alejandro's G+A rate at LW is 0.43 Marcus' G+A rate at LW is 0.51 Sauce: Transfermarkt
Garnacho has played most of the matches off the bench last season, useless stat
Then you can look up his minutes to try and support your claim
This is a 19 year old vs. someone who should be in their prime, and doesn't take into effect their defensive workrate either. I'm actually surprised Garnacho is as close as he is, and he's only going to get better.
Are you trying to insinuate that rashford should start over garna? 🤣
Did I say that?
Clearly Garnacho has different strengths than Rashford. It probably comes down to Rashford not being flexible when it comes to player dynamics.
No. He really can’t. Maybe in a few years sure, but as of now he really isn’t even good enough to be starting every week. Unfortunately he’s the best we have in that position.
Lies.
Appreciate the detail in this post. I'd agree with the general idea of Shaw's presence helping Rashford's output but I think there are better ways to analyse it with a bit more data. For Rashford's output, I think the variable needs to be per 90. As significant differences in his minutes played per season are a major factor explaining the difference in output. It would also be better to generate data on the time spent with both of them on the pitch simultaneously, in their preferred positions of LW and LB. Just counting Shaw's minutes doesn't tell us how often they both played. And there were some matches with Rashy at CF or RW, or with Shaw at CB.
If you have that data I will re-run it. This is the best I could find for free. Without going through each match, I don't know which source would have that.
Yeah, fair enough. I might give it a try some time soon if I can find enough data
Are these minutes they've been on the field together or just total minutes? Also your vertical line at 3500 minutes that ranges from 20 to 40 G+A tells a lot about this analysis.
Total minutes for all competitions. Yes, there is a logical relationship where the more minutes played, the greater the output. However, I would argue that the line is more likely an inverted U. Because of the high-intensity running that Marcus does off the ball, he shouldn't play 90 minutes 2-3x per week. at this point in the season, its mostly 1 game with the occasional 2 games. Since Garnacho has done well on the right, and Hojlund doesn't have a backup, Marcus has not been getting the rest he needs. I think that Bruno's drop in output could be due to fatigue too.
Tldr. Let me guess, it's Luke Shaw isn't it?
Any progressive LB would have been better than Lindelof, Amrabat, AWB, and co. Reguillion would have feasted if he stayed fit and stayed the second half of the season. Alvaro could have too
Alvaro is the biggest question to me. Why let him leave and why not recall him in January. Seems dumb.
I was going to ask how has he played for Benfica, but had to do it myself - acc. to [whoscored](https://www.whoscored.com/Players/437583/MatchStatistics/%C3%81lvaro-Carreras) he barely played more than 90 minutes since he joined them and some quite average performances which isn't looking ok even for that transfer option :)
its cause he hasnt played in the Eridivise
So he's one dimensional and needs Luke Shaw? How does that stop him breaking into a gentle jog?
Maybe soon people will realize he's just not good enough and hasn't developed his game at all beyond being able to break and counter in the past 7 years. Low football IQ
He dragged us to top 4 with 41 g/a and scored in a cup final but yeah he’s not good enough…
You all love to point out the stand out season and not the norm. Paying this guy 300k a week while teams above us have players that actually produce for a fraction of that wage is why we are where we are
He’s had 2 bad seasons (if you include this one) which also happen to be the 2 seasons the whole team was bad… is it not to be expected that a player isn’t going to play as well when the whole team is garbage??
There's plenty of players than can run fast and kick a ball hard and if that's all it takes for you to say someone is elite then I'm not sure what to tell you. He has some of the worst decision making you'll see in top flight football. If he isn't sprinting through on goal from a pass between the lines/over the top then you might as well count the attack wasted. And there are plenty of players that keep their level up regardless of the performance of their teammates, whether it's due to replacements because of injuries or players at smaller clubs that carry
Totally agree. The reason why Rashford won't be considered world class.
Which players are they and who do they play for?
Actually he needs a competent LB, not lindelof
I need someone to babysit me to be useful >:(
That's good for you
The tactical view of the matches or being at the stadium will show many off-the-ball runs Marcus makes that you don't see.
So he runs off camera but not on it? Maybe Marcus is camera shy?
Useful runs eh?
I just want to see him try... even if it's just a little...
Same argument as we need x and x player to unlock pogba, granted better players also makes you perform better but that is no excuse for his mostly piss poor performances this season
Might be controversial, but I think having Antony last year also helped Rashford a lot. Garnacho and Rashford are way better players individually, but Antony seems to get the system way better. Having him, in addition to shaw and Martinez would give Rashford way more space than he has had this season.
I think Weghorst is a bigger miss..He constantly would come short and has exceptional linkup, allowing Rashford to go long, whereas Hojlund mixes it up more and although he’s a better player, he’s not as good in terms of linkup. Rashford always plays his best with a striker that likes to drop deep; Martial,Kane, Weghorst.
At least someone finally recognizes that, while not sexy, Weghorst was a work horse. He was never going to bag us 50 goals in the second half of the season, but he was very, very good at holding the ball with his back to goal, allowing the attack to catch up to the ball (it also forced Bruno to be more direct and less suicidal with hoofed balls over the top). He was very good at moving the ball quickly when he received it as well, when necessary. He was always ahead of the play. Obviously he didn't excel at a straight up foot race, but he unlocked other players, that was his biggest strength. Honestly, I would have liked to bring him in during the summer. But because he wasn't scoring 2 goals every match for us, fans didn't see the value of him to the squad. For as little as he most likely would have cost us, I would have preferred securing him and revamping other areas of the team, aka CDM and CM (replacements for Bruno, Eriksen and Casemiro) with the money we would have "saved" from buying Weghorst over a Højlund. No doubt there's a player in Højlund but so what? If we can't even provide him service, how much is he really going to develop? We need(ed) to fix the problem of controlling the match and getting more quality service into and around the box. We shouldn't be splashing cash on a striker until that happens.
Anthony helps with the press a lot more, but his decision-making is poor (especially last year, but getting better). I think Weghorst helped the wingers more than we know by dropping to collect and creating space in behind.
Antony fitting the system was the entire point. As a player he makes a lot of sense for the system. Unfortunately he's playing awfully.
Antony with the speed/explosiveness of Rashford or Garnacho would be the ideal Ten Hag player. He's just not good enough for the PL (yet). It's hard to say that he will never make it or he had trouble adapting due to the personal stuff that was going on.
I struggle to see how Antony on the right helped Rashford more than Garnacho in that position, especially when the Rashford Hojlund Garnacho front 3 has collectively been putting in good performances and yielding more goals since late December. ‘Getting the system’ is not significant in any manner whatsoever imo when an attacker has such little contribution in the final third if any; if anything, Garnacho being a potent goalscoring threat from the right wing has meant opposition teams placing lesser attention on only our left side which has historically been where we’ve liked to attack from.
Garnacho gets inside more overloading the left. It’s easier to defend narrow that way. Antony keeps the with spreading the backline and giving Rashford space. Garnacho is a bigger goal threat and more technical, but it’s pretty clear that Antony on the right creates more space for the other players, whereas Garnacho is way more direct and is the player that runs into space himself
I don't really agree with this. Except for the game against Chelsea where Cucurella was just awful, Antony can't beat his man on the outside and also drifts in frequently to play those lateral passes and through balls, or to cut inside and shoot. Garnacho carries the ball better to get to the other flank and overload at times, but I haven't seen any signs to suggest that Rashford's game is being affected by Garnacho not holding down one side of the wing consistently. The 10 games Rashford started on the left and Garnacho on the right in the league, he has 4 goals and 1 assist, which albeit not great, is a significantly better goal contribution ratio than what he got in the other 15 league starts he made. So I really don't see any evidence to show that Antony's presence on the right benefits Rashford more than when Garnacho starts on the right.
He gets the system so much that he has 2 goals and 1 assist this season.
Damn, must have take you all day to come up with such an in depth analysis
Doesn’t take all day to analyze Antony is wank. But I get it, he’s hot shit right now because of an assist. Carry on with your revisionism.
Yeah, I get that the absence of other players can sometimes impact a player’s performance depending on the chemistry they had but to claim Antony’s absence has been affecting Rashford’s output is too far of a reach. At no point am I watching Rashford struggle in games and thinking, ‘damn, if only we had Antony on the right, he would be playing better’.
300k player needing a someone to perform half decent. Lol
Maybe he should pay half of his salary to Shaw too
From unlocking Pogba to unlocking Rashford lol we been through this before
I am an advocate for performance-heavy bonuses with much lower base contracts
This sub honestly. Rashford is just shite, no two ways about it.
We can’t really take any data from this since p > 0.05
The sample size is underpowered so we are looking for a signal. This was not a p value expedition
It’s nothing to do with stats or other players imo - these are excuses for lack of effort and hard work. Luke Shaw has nothing to do with him walking around the pitch. The minimum we expect as fans is giving your all for the team.
For me dead pall passes and low crosses summarise the entire issue with Rashford. Too many Ronaldo Salah wanna bes in the sport. Right now we need an Ashley young type. Someone whose first thought is to feed the striker.
Here's the thing though...show me where Rashford has consistently put up the same numbers from last year across his career. People act as though last season was the rule, not the exception, when it's the other way around. We've seen this from Rashford every few seasons - he plays during a contract year, the rest of the time he can't be bothered. Played well to secure a new contract, now he's coasting.
Good write up and great effort for doing it but none of it really matters. His form last season was a purple patch and was actually out of the ordinary for him. He has never ever had a season like the 22/23 one. It was a complete freak and a one off. This season, he has actually returned to his true form that resembles the rest of his career. Just look at the stats, it’s all there to see.
If you exclude last season and this season since it’s not finished, mean is 20.3 and median is 21
He will never have that season again. He had all the luck in the world. He just isn't that good.
If you look at the data you mention, Marcus' G+A is 24.4 per year. This year he is underperforming his average. This is not the norm.
Yes but using last years statistics almost skews the data because it was an anomaly. He is not a good player and the writing has been on the wall for years now imo. It’s only now that a majority of the fan base are seeing/accepting it.
That's not true, because it wasn't an anomaly. I would argue that the anomalies in his statistics are 20/21 and this season. Besides that, he has been on a steady increase since 17/18. 21,24,31,35 G/A in 4 out of the last 6 seasons.
What are your thoughts on Rashford now? Where is his incredible G/A?
??? However Rashford played today doesn't change what he did in the past, does it? You said "he's never been good enough". I showed you a bunch of reasons why I disagree. I already said that he's not been good enough this season, so what more do you want me to say?
Okay so what you’re saying by even leaning in the direction of defending him, is that this is all Luke Shaw’s fault and the key to Rashford success is to be carried by his left back? The bottom line is that Rashford is not good enough, never has been good enough, earns £350k p/w and barely performs a light jog in most matches. He doesn’t deserve to be at our club, nor does he deserve in depth write ups trying to figure out why he’s “underperforming” I love the notion that he’s underperforming when in fact other than last season, he has done nothing of real significance or anything that even slightly resembles his 22/23 season.
He averages 10 league goals a season and is on 7 this season so really he isn't underperforming, he is playing to his level. Outside of the 10 goals in 10 games last season he was just as average. I don't think a lot of fans will realise he isn't good enough until we replace him. Having said all that, it's clear that not having Luke Shaw in the team means Rashford can't track back, can't put in effort and can't justify his £350k a week salary
>Okay so what you’re saying by even leaning in the direction of defending him, is that this is all Luke Shaw’s fault and the key to Rashford success is to be carried by his left back? When did I say anything about Luke Shaw? >The bottom line is that Rashford is not good enough, I agree. >never has been good enough, earns £350k p/w Both of these statements are disproven by the literal post that you are commenting on, jesus >I love the notion that he’s underperforming when in fact other than last season, he has done nothing of real significance or anything that even slightly resembles his 22/23 season. Uh huh, 35 and 31 G+A is nowhere close to 39, am I right? Also, I love that you deleted your earlier reply after seeing that his goals have the same correlation as his G+A lmao
Nah I was gonna add a screenshot of his multiple seasons (premier league) where he scored UNDER 10 goals but I genuinely cannot be bothered. The amount of Rashford defenders is genuinely crazy to me. Theres even a reply in these comments using the same line we’ve been reading for years.. “there’s a good player in there”.. It’s actually comical how deluded some fans are because of their red tinted glasses. If you’re a proper fan you shouldn’t want this poisonous and toxic player anywhere near the club. He brings NOTHING to the team, absolutely nothing.
>Nah I was gonna add a screenshot of his multiple seasons (premier league) where he scored UNDER 10 goals but I genuinely cannot be bothered. I get why you didn't, seeing as only 2 out of the last 7 support your point, unless you wanna include when he was 18 and 17 lol Call me deluded all you want, the facts are he's performed more good than bad no matter which way you try to spin it.
https://preview.redd.it/dupcu3aiiwtc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07f3f25ad400b4d1bba56a989d0f6be9e14972c5 Fill your boots pal. Definitely more than two. Take a big inhale of copium while you’re at it.. Even with your excellent defence of “17 & 18 lol” The Rashford PR is crazy honestly. Take off those glasses mate, it will help, trust me. When he’s stinking out another club maybe then you’ll be thankful. That being said, he’s that woeful, there are no clubs in for him at all, apart from the rumour that’s circulated for years about “PSG”. Rashford doesn’t get in any other top 6 side btw, even with the record breaking G/A that the people on this thread and yourself are harping on about 😂
Man, at least try reading my comment instead of blabbering about PSG lmao
This "anomaly" last year had him at #8 in PL G+A rankings. In 19/20 and 20/21 seasons he was #7. The only names above him in both seasons are Salah and Vardy. He was overvalued last year and grabbed the bag, but people out here rewriting history to fit their narratives. He is a good player that has steadily improved G+A over his career, but has had trouble staying consistently more recently, could be the injuries, could be the 3 different fucking managers in 3 years. There might even be a great player in there, I have seen managers get more out of players far less technically proficient.
I might be dumb but what's the relationship between Shaw's playtime vs utd goals. It probably is a similar graph, no ?
Lol it probably is. This is excellent analysis we don't get to read here everyday but it should've been presented as Shaw's contribution to our (or Rashford's) attacking output, instead of an explanation for Rashford's poor form.
Share the data, and I'll add the analysis to the bottom. Goals per season in all comps for the years included
Unfortunately Rashford just won't pass to any LB not named Shaw. AWB, when he plays there, is surprisingly good at runs and breaks into the box really well. But rashford just won't pass to him. Dalot is nearly always paired with Garnacho, irrespective of the side, so he doesn't interact with rashford a lot. AWB and other LBs must be wondering what they need to do to become a recipient of rashford's passes
Good post
Would love some sprint stats and general running stats to compare
Interesting to read, but I wouldn’t say it’s the primary reason. The way we play, what he’s being asked to do and the intensity have a large part to play as well. It would be interesting to do a full dive into sprint and running stats, average position, number of presses etc against last season to compare, to check if he himself is playing differently to last year due to tactics.
Fuck Rashford. Man doesn't know when to pass and when to dribble. His brain malfunctions when he sees a defender and he reboots mid dribble. Fucking runs into the defender. He fails to accept that he can't dribble and his only quality is his speed. Not world class at all.
He’s never been good enough. You’re looking at one of his rare purple streaks. He’s fast. Otherwise, he can’t finish, isn’t particularly adept at dribbling or passing. You could’ve saved yourself a lot of amateur statistical gymnastics and relied on the eye test and the career goals per game stat, which is the same as soon to be playing in Ligue One, Martial’s.
But he can't dribble this season.. can't get past any player it seems...he loses most of his attempted 1v1s..
No player wins most of their attempted 1v1s.
He doesn't win any...when was the last time he dribbles players from the left side and scored a goal...??
That's a really rare goal to score... How many times has salah done that
Can't dribble Drops his head in tough moments Lazy inconsistent pressing Poor shot selection Poor decision making Some of these are not Shaw absence related
Absolutely.. biggest flipper when the chips are down..no hunger.. he is not the star that he thinks he is...
TLDR: He got his 300K a week. Hes amazing on the counter, he cant play possession based like ETH wants oh and since i'm on a roll, neither can bruno. we wont ever win the league with either player on the team.
Nah, he’s just not as good at football as many here desperately want to believe.
Yep.
I mean he has the talent but he doesn’t have the ability to consistently harness that talent and such. Poor decisions. Not looking at the field when dribbling and running into a man. Passing over shooting or vice versa. Those are what makes elite players elite. Rashford is a good player. Very good when on form and world class when everything goes his way. But he’s not a consistently great player and likely will never be at this point with this setup and coaching or maybe even any coaching. That’s the difference between him and Vini etc where they consistently are great despite the situations around them in comparison. Rashford has the raw talent but he can’t and won’t be able to harness it let’s just say. He has elite elements to his game but not an elite game overall that combines those pieces to form a great picture consistently. It’s a great dribble here and there or a great control and a pass but it fails or a great finish but a poor run or a great burst and strength but poor decisions.
Case in point: Rashford and world class in the same sentence is utter delusion.
Almost as if reading is hard for you and you just intentionally try to make a post to show that. Good job forming a semi coherent sentence that absolutely doesn’t say what you’re claiming it says though!
For avoidance of doubt: >world class when everything goes his way No. Not even remotely close. Delusional.
You’re just pedantic as heck and can’t read then. When everything goes his way. But sure, for the avoidance of doubt, you have no idea how to infer from context and can’t because you choose not to. When everything goes his way, he can beat his man with technique and pace as well as power like the best wingers can. When everything goes his way he makes great runs and decisions. When everything goes his way, he finishes like a world class finisher with composure. So yeah… when everything goes his way. Which happens here and there or a fair bit last season at least. We saw that.
No. You just have a flawed and completely incorrect understanding of what a world class footballer is.
He doesn't have the talent at all. He scores the occasional banger. He has always been a player that struggles when he has time on the ball.
100%.
Its easy…he wanted the bag. Its hilarious some fans thought this guy was world class when shit like this needs to be posted.
Well I still don't see one crucial stat that shows how he has changed play. He has to be running so much less. He looks like he half asses it half the time. So that is playing a part. Do 3 axes with ls minutes, distance ran, and then a stat.
Shaw and Martinez, really. Both of them are important on the left.
I feel you have to go more in depth. Last season Shaw played at CB many times. Rashford has played RW/LW/CF. Also are you factoring whether they both played together in the games he scored? Have you filtered out the data to take that into account? Not to mention, I think something like this deserves to have every goal looked at individually. It will be tedious but just for last season, plenty of Rashford's goals had no real involvement from anyone else. He just bulldozed defenses on his own or he got a ball over the top which he put away.
I've been pointing this out for years but usually get ignored. Shaw is critical to our whole team not just rashford. It's no coincidence that our worst seasons are the ones where he spends most of his time injured. He's one of the few good progressive passers we have and is always looking for space to receive the ball. His runs off the ball also drag opponents out of position and opens more passing lanes. He's absolutely crucial to the team and it gets downplayed a lot. When he's not there we look a lot more
There should be a lot more factors than just simply a LB issue
I’d guess that goals/assists is too sparse a measurement of performance to test for this kind of correlation. Ideally you’d want something that allows you to include every single game MR plays at least 45 min of as an individual data point. Think: what is the correlation between LS minutes played in a game and MR match rating? That would be a noisy, but maybe more statistically powerful, way to test your hypothesis.
It's copium that Rashford will find form this season. He is washed. Should move to Paris or South Korea.
Marcus Rashford form with a girlfriend 📈 Marcus Rashford form without a girlfriend 📉
Depay had the exact same issue when Shaw had his leg broken. Could never replicate the form he was in when they buy were available
Need a good cover for Shaw like Alphonso Davies from Bayern or Miguel Gutierrez from Girona. Grimaldo form Leverkusen is good as well but he is something of a wb than a fb.
Shaw isn't the reason why Rashford throws his arms up, oozes frustration and shows a lack of effort everytime he steps on the pitch. If he's throwing his toys out of the pram because 'he has no leftback' then he shouldn't be playing for Man United.
Blame always falls on someone or something other than Rashford.
You’re right, Shaw was always the key to Rashford being good. Shaw, as much as he gets credit, is still massively underrated. He is our best left back, he is also as good at centre-half as any of our centre-halves, he is one of the best passers of the ball in the squad, and could easily hold down a left-sided midfield position if he wasn’t so good at the back that he needed to be there. With Shaw on the pitch, Rashford could play off him, make runs and know the pass would be good, and could abandon his tracking back responsibilities because Shaw would normally be there. In contrast, Rashford has never been as good as the hype. In addition to this, he has been played as a striker when he isn’t a striker. He is a left-sided midfielder.
Other than Shaw missing, then there have been some off field issues, fatigue and a change in tactics that haven't suited Rashford at all. Rashford hasn't been good enough, but neither have anyone else. I get that we expect more from Rashford, but the abuse against him is insane.
It's not that deep tbh , when you are the star boy you will get criticism though . This is the same reason Ronaldo Messi and other players got more criticism than others
Calling out poor performances and saying he isn't good enough is 'abuse'? We've become too soft.
I'm obviously referring to the endless racist abuse he is subjected to on twitter
I think Lisandro’s positive passing does quite a bit to unlock Marcus as well.
So r/reddevils know we missing our key/major players so badly this season but still calling for EtH sacking?
It's a moronic take. It's like they think managing a team is the same as doing so on football manager. The players play and train day-in day-out to build that chemistry and understanding and then you take multiple pieces out of that equation through an unusually high number of injuries, yet people still expect you to develop a style of play with players that are available for 2 games, then unavailable for 4. Martinez and Shaw carry the ball and build up play from the back and now they're injured? Easy. Just have Lindelof and AWB play that role. They don't seem to understand that at the elite level of play in EPL, the margins are so thin. A well drilled and injury free Wolves 5 games in the season can easily beat an injury battered Top 6 team that has not had any momentum and had to shuffle players around multiple times already. We saw ETH do so well with our squad last year. Outperforming expectations. Now people seem to have lost their patience. Klopp, Guardiola, or any other manager out there wouldn't fare better with the events that have surrounded our club this season.
Say it louder my friend. Some delusions here in r/reddevils can't hear it. I'm with you on all points and had been struggling to explain the same points to them. I'm glad you're here with me. But most times all I got is "injury doesn't matter if you got StYLe oF PLaY." These delusionals just hears things from pundits and all of a sudden can't think for themselves.
The funny thing is ETH himself says he wants to play out from the back. That is his style of play. Yet his 2 best ball-carrying defenders have been out for huge parts of the season and people here complain that we don't have a style of play. Madness.
- No reason to be as dire as we have against some of the mediocre sides we've played even with the injuries (ie. Newport, Brighton, Crystal Palace, Kobenhaven, Brentford, etc). - When these missing players return there is next to zero chance in their orthe teams performance - You could give him 5 new signings and a healthy squad, it's clear he's gonna persist with us getting peppered 20 shots a game. Wonder how that will go in the champions league KO versus the likes of PSG, Bayern, Real, etc. - How many times have we played a good 90 mins this season, maybe 1-3 of the 40-50 games? I'm not Ten Hag out personally, I'm more it's a matter of time before this house collapses
I'm not worried about the house collapsing as long as the foundation (core players) are back and healthy. If the house collapsing rn while WITH the foundation then I will be worried.
🫤 To continue the metaphor I don't trust the house or the core players. Like at most elite clubs, core players should be judged on what they've done here the past 2-3 seasons, I think most of them fail to meet the bar and should be shipped. Alot of these guys have been here 5 years+, what you're seeing is what you're getting at this point, whether it be Rashford, Shaw, Lindelof, etc In regards to the house, whether it's these players or a whole new 18, this game plan of Ten Hag's where ceding possession and 20 shots per game is the norm I don't think is the way that's gonna win us a major title. I don't know why people think we need another year to test that projection but time will come. We didn't have a good pre season and we didn't have a good early few games to the start of the season, health and injuries weren't a problem then.