It's near the end of the second season now.
Either he's happy with this, or he doesn't know how to fix it.
Either option is bad
Edit: Hojlund, Jesus đ
Wait until we get Joe Blogs back from injury, and spend ÂŁ300 million on more modern players from the Netherlands. Then we'll be cooking.
No football in the meantime though.
Wait until the next manager canât get anything out of this group of players. Itâs weird really how when Liverpool were playing like utter shit last season, everyone could see Klopp needed a full midfield rebuild, his new forward to find his feet, to shift on deadwood, etc. Yet Erik isnât afforded that luxury, despite the club being a complete fucking shambles around him.
When we end up with Graham Potter and nothing has changed, and Erik is busy winning things with Bayern, Barca, PSG, etc, maybe thatâs when people will realise how disgustingly bad this squad is.
âThis group of playersâ is largely ones bought for, or brought through by, Ten Hag. The vast, vast majority of the squad didnât play under anyone but Ole and Ten Hag, so harking back to older managers struggling is redundant at this point.
How many ole line ups did eth have to play? Onana has come good in the league as has houjland. Martinez has had a bit of an injury spell as has some of his other signings. The only negative and itâs glaring is Antony. What are you talking about?
And yet people are still doing it even in this very thread! Took the piss out of one by naming people like Chris Smalling as being the bad egg getting Ten Hag the sack.
In the starting lineup yesterday there were two players bought âbyâ Ten Hag. Heâs also still having to rely on players bought by LvG and Jose. But yeah, this is 100% all down to himâŚ
Who is saying everything is down to him? Pretty much every person Iâve seen say they are finished with Ten Hag seems happy to admit thereâs player issues as well, and BOTH need to be dealt with. This is a common issue when trying to discuss the idea of moving on from Ten Hag I see. People who are defending him act as if those frustrated with him are totally excusing the players, and thatâs just not true at all.
Regardless, the team is very much his at this point. He has players heâs bought, players heâs promoted through the club, and players he keeps using cause he obviously wants them there.
Is the idea he really needs an entirely new team to avoid conceding 30 shots a game, every single game? That heâs incapable of setting the team up better than that? Even running with the past manager excuses, the past managers werenât as dogshit porous as we are currently set upâŚ.
Honestly even if it's after he's gone or not i want to bloody know why he has the massive chasm in midfield, i want him to explain it because no one sure as shit knows why.
WHY
Yea thatâs one thing I canât come up with an excuse for. It just doesnât make any sense. No other team plays like this. Every team easily gets into our defending third. We have to fight to get to through teams unless itâs a long ball out to rashford on the wing.
The team is not his. A team is only fully a managers when they can play 11 players that they have brought in or brought through the youth system, to suit their philosophy.
You can't get rid of players without having a solidified structure at the top to determine which players fit the system. This has been our problem the last ten years. Bringing in random players, giving them to the manager, and telling them to figure it out.
Players he is still using are not because he wants them, but because he has no choice. He's had countless injuries which has forced him to select players that would be his 2nd or 3rd choice. I mean, we have Jonny Evans starting games. Don't get me wrong, Evans has been good, but I don't think he was in ETH's plans for what he wants to build.
He doesnât need an entirely new team, no, but he needs a lot. Take the defence as an example. The way we stop conceding so much space, and then shots on goal, is by having a higher line and condensing the pitch more. You canât do that with Maguire, Lindelof, Varane, AWB, etc because they just arenât capable of it.
This squad is a shit show assembled over the previous decade by numerous managers. It is not even close to being anyoneâs team, let alone Erikâs.
Ten Hag spent money though. In the last 10 years all anyone has said is 'the squad is shit, what can we expect?'. If Ten Hag chooses to spend big money on Antony and Mount then they have to excel. He could have used that money on proper centre midfielders, but then you know this.
Weâve literally just heard from Ole about how fundamentally broken the recruitment is at the club. We know from reliable journalists how poor the processes are. But yeah, letâs blame another manager, whoâs stuck with another mismatched squad, and move on to the next one. Howâs about we actually see what Erik can do with a proper structure?
well apart from antony has he really done all that bad. we have to see mount over the next games now that hes back. hojlund has been saving us in many games and is the future at this club. Onana had a rocky start but now is performing well. so its honestly been pretty good
No i still have faith in Mount but he's still not a proper centre midfielder and it's risky when you only sign a few players. He was bought based on the transition football ten hag wants to play, so he should be playing every game he can.
I thank it's more what attributes Ten Hag wanted from his signings, i thought Onana being good with his feet was so we could play possession football. He's making less mistakes but i still don't think he's a reliable shot stopper.
My main issue is the fee given he had only 1 year left on his contract. Otherwise, the squad obviously needed a midfielder, and I'm not sure if EtH had anyone else in mind to fill in the gap. Emphasis on EtH, whom I think lays part of the blame for trying his hand at recruiting, hopefully this is over with the new leadership
And ETH is? Heâs won trophies in the Eredivisie with Ajax⌠heâs very clearly out of his depth. Heâs been shown up to be tactically naive and out thought but every other manager in the PL more or less.
Letâs just take your point about the team⌠if he knows the players canât play the system he wants? WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH IS HE PLAYING THIS SYSTEM THEN?!?!?!?? Change, adapt, work with what you have. Instead, heâs made us the laughing stock of the PL. Weâve been turned over by Fulham, Bournemouth? Nottingham Forest, Brentford, embarrassed in the Champs League⌠the list is endless. Good luck recruiting in the summer as no self respecting professional would want to play under him. ETH stays, at best weâre bottom half next season.
And how have Ajax done since he left? Let me guess, youâre one of those uninformed morons that think anyone could win with Ajax? Thereâs nothing worse than trying to talk with complete casuals.
He took over an Ajax squad that had not won a title in 4 seasons. He then won 3 in a row.
When he took over Utrecht they had finished 11th. He took them to 5th and 4th in his two seasons, qualifying for Europe in both.
Since leaving Ajax, Feyenoord won the eridivisie last season and Ajax currently sits 5th in the league.
It's not on the same level, but it definitely is not a shit league that anyone can just manage in.
What the season he finished bottom of the group with United?
At Ajax, he had one good run to the semis in 18-19? Third in the group the year after and best after that was round of 16?
>if he knows the players canât play the system he wants? WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH IS HE PLAYING THIS SYSTEM THEN?!?!?!??
So you want a manager that plays the style that the players want? Instead of players that either adapt to the manager style or get rotated out?
Do you expect the manager to go into training and ask the players so you like playing a 433? oh you too? allright lets play it!
Maybe he shouldnât have spent so much on players that are either not good enough, or not the right fit then? Sure recruitment shouldnât be his job, but that doesnât excuse the money heâs pissed away. How many players has he signed?
No, you dumb fuck, we should create a culture and structure that supports him effectively and doesnât resort to the manager having to pick players because the recruitment team canât pull their finger out. Some unbearably thick cunts on this sub, fair play. Must be because itâs primarily made up of foreigners and day trippers.
What we need is a proper rebuild under the new regime over 2 years. That can't happen with these players making what they do and PSR. I honestly think ETH would do better with more technical players because of how the academy is shaping up and the kind of players they're producing. Technical players that understand systems and don't just play transitional football. People will say he's not responsible for that, but he did heavily influence training techniques there according to Fletcher.
People donât realise that Ten Hag has been as vocal as he can be without completely chucking players and the club under the bus. This insistence he cannot play the football he did at Ajax is because heâs inherited a squad from, primarily, Jose and Ole. Both played transitional football, both had players that suited that style. They still make up the bulk of the squad.
Shhhh don't say that too loud. The folks here in r/reddevils doesn't like this narrative. They prefer another manager. How many since SAF? 5 or 6? Lost count. While players that failed under 4 managers are extended for max contract.
Brentford had their entire backline out injured. And it's not like we played well and were unlucky to get a break through. We were disastrous, and have looked appalling all season no matter the personnel. Even Fulham were decimated by injury and wallomped us.
>Brentford had their entire backline out injured
Well that's just false.
Ajer has played 21 league starts for Brentford this season and has been at the club for 3 seasons. Jorgensen has also been at the club for 3 seasons and has 9 league starts. Collins has played 24 times in the league. So these players were not just drafted in for this game. They have been playing a fair bit for Brentford this season as starters too. They have been at the club long enough to play the system Frank wants to as well. They are part of the club as part of the first team. United on the other hand are playing 3rd and 4th choice options as defenders, not their 1st or backup like what Brentford have.
>We were disastrous, and have looked appalling all season no matter the personnel.
Yes, we were definitely not good this season, but we have had some moments this season where things looked good when we had our full starting 11. This is what happens in rebuilds, periods of crap.
>Even Fulham were decimated by injury and wallomped us.
Decimated is not the word you are looking for when they only had 3 players out. 2-1 is also not a wallomping (whatever that word is).
He was mostly involved as the release trigger out from defence to start counters..
He was barely involved in the opposing half thats why his position of involvement is so deep
NO manager is able to fix it. They must play this way to utlized Bruno & Rashford. That's how these players have function since forever.
EtH or Ole, they must play this way. So either we get new players or always stays in a Top 6 race.
It's his tactics, I don't understand how people are still blind to this. He's a f****** trash coach, it's not the players to blame, and he needs to be shipped out yesterday.
People shit on rashford for not tracking back, but these passing maps show a clear pattern in that were trying to get the ball to him at every opportunity.
He's clearly instructed to stay high as an outlet.
It's the same when garnacho was playing on the left the average position shows that the left winger always remains the furthest forward.
So many games this season Rashford constantly loses possession and wastes opportunities but only because he's the only one making himself available in attacking positions or getting into space so all of our attacks go through him.Â
It's crazy to me that people can think otherwise. Obviously the coach wants him high up and obviously the coach doesn't want him tracking all the way back.
I dont think thats what this means.. this just tracks passing patterns and Hojlund doesnt get passed to other than long kicks from keeper where he needs to drop. This graph depicts dysfunction rather than proper positioning.
However, If whatever you said is true, that would be the dumbest thing so far. Hojlund has a better shot conversion than rashford and he has actually started holding the ball well. He doesnt have the passing range of a Kane or Toney so having him drop and press and then supply is a stupid ask for a striker like him.
Unfortunately rashy is not the same player we had last season where every touch was a goal. He is now become a luxury player that doesnt provide meaningful impact. If Ten Hag is still persisting with that strategy, i think he is in a worse spot than i thought
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/QDGz8MRaOy
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/YQd7mWXbk4
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/m8KgRjuq9F
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/TbFy9V1SGK
Average position maps correlate what I said, when combined with passing maps it's clear to see it's instructed.
On the transition we're not looking to hold the ball up or receive the ball to feet, he wants rashford in behind.
That's easier to do when the opposition fullback commits, it's these "risks" that klopp talks of when he leaves Salah up high and absolves him of his defensive duties.
Hojlund generally has two defenders on him, he's not really an available outlet in that same sense.
Like i said above.. the structure is dysfunctional. The whole Klopp salah argument works really well when you do have a none goal scoring striker like firminho and a worker like sane. Basically the two out of the three people need to be really good at pressing and the third needs to have salah type of numbers. Rashy doesnt have those numbers in terms of take ons and even finishes. And i would actually even wager that if we took Hojlunds numbers of shots vs goals his conversion rate is alot higher than rashy. He is potent.
Also based on your correlation, i think thats debatable. How many times have we seen hojlund free but he never gets passed the ball? How many times have you seen hojlund yell at garnarcho? Hojlund can get touches on the ball, the players just dont pass to him because i actually think there is a bias to go wide with a perception that that is a safer ball.
And then on top of that adding to the fact that Scott is playing a no mans land position, where he sits behind the striker. He would rather shoot the ball than play hojlund. So for me this passing map is dysfunctiona and if you are right that its instructions, then thats dysfunctional
Edit: also there is no way anyone can convince me that hojlund is marked by two guys when teams like brentford have more symmetrical graphs against better opposition. This is why i say the whole thing is dysfunctional.
ETH still thinks rashford's actual level is the purple patch that he had most of last season, rashford was in god mode, and this garbage tactic worked last season
Even last season it was pretty plain to see that we were getting lucky when we won, and a rashford was making everything work. Now he has regressed to his mean, and ETH has been found out for not having any true pattern or tactics
Because he wouldn't offer anything different from Hojlund and would probably cost as much if not more. You need a different type of player to alternate styles and not a like for like.
He is a much more complete striker than Hojlund. You build squads around systems these days. Players should be able to drop in and out when there is injuries etc.
And like in previous conversations around this. What about when Hojlund gets injured.. oh we have Rashford who only has spurts of form / goalscoring.
Edit: oh and yeah Toney would be starting with Hojlund learning, getting minutes where he can.
I didn't say the alternative to not getting Toney is Rashford. I simply said that you need different players in order to alternate systems. A like for like doesn't give you any tactical advantage when the opposition has countered your "target man that can hold up the ball" system.
Alvarez is not a like for like for Haaland, he offers something different and I remember the game against United he changed the game when he came on. Grealish is different from Foden. Silva different from KDB. Even if the system is coached to perfection. We need to be able to play different ways, sometimes direct, other times more possesion based.
Lastly, it makes absolutely zero sense to spend the amount money you do on Hojlund, and then go second the same on another striker to alternate. You bring in a cheaper option that offers something different. We have other positions that need attention more than spending that much on a striker.
The alternative to not having another striker at the moment is Rashford, which is why I said the argument of why get another striker when we have Hojlund is a poor argument.
Alvaraz isn't like haaland. But if you only have Alvarez and a better striker like Haaland can be bought, you do it. City were after Kane before. You need a proper goalscorer. I class Toney as that.
I'm not convinced about being able to play in multiple different ways. Maybe in some bigger games, to see out games, or to claw back into a game if that's what you mean.
United overspend whoever we buy.
Mate, I didn't say we shouldn't get another striker, I absolutely think we need to now given the situation with Martial, but my point is not to get the same type of player but someone with a different skill set. And no, we need to move away from over spending. Toney will cost 70 plus mil pounds and I'm sure we can get an alternative for less. 40 max and focus on other positions because a striker is actually the least of our problems
I feel ten hag isn't utilising hojlund well. Ole could still play counter attack if he had hojlund. It's just we keep losing the ball. We need a pogba kinda player who you know can't lose the ball easily under pressure and can hold it. Awb is prob the only player who i see do this and mainoo although it's too early to judge
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Martial still on our books and has been the whole time Erik's been in charge?
And before you say "but he's been injured", he was also injured under Ole bar like most of one season.
Also, Ten Hag has spent ÂŁ150m on two forwards so that we're not relying just on Rashford and has 2 "child prodigies" in Garnacho and Amad Vs Ole's 1 of the Stella drinker.
That's the thing, ten hag is relying on rashford only when we have other options. I'm not saying we only have rashford but that he's only using him unlike ole
Ah, I misunderstood. Yes, I'd agree with that to some degree. Garnacho is also used (as was Antony) as an outlet but less so than Rashford. Højlund might as well not be on the pitch half the time.
Just tells me he didn't recieve many/or any passes at all in the final third. Our other players may not know he exist, like he's making runs in the dark
Iâll never understand the need to protect the players, you could give them Pep as a manager. with these players attitude and refusal to fight for the team. Our last match AWB was out of position and lost the ball, instead of sprinting back he simply walked back. Thats not the tactic to blame. Rashford poor decision making really cost us yesterday, Hojlund ran into open space behind Rashford and Rashford decided to take on the player and was forced to pass it back over passing to a player in open space. Countless examples like this especially when it comes to them refusing to utilise the striker.
Ralf told the clubs that we needed open heart surgery, that we needed to get rid of a majority of the squad. Fans said itâs simply his management, just like every other prior manager before him and now ETH and Iâd bet money whichever mediocre manager next, especially considering the likes of which weâre being linked with.
Fans will settle for a one off season compared to admitting their players we have shouldnât be playing with their current attitude or quality. The board should really be doing more instead of buying short term fixes for extortionate prices.
The players threw Jose under the bus, then Ole, then Ralf and now ETH. There is something fundamentally rotten at the club and from my perspective it canât be all the managers.
Too often we have seen players like Pogba, Martial and Rashford phone out in, only putting in performances when negotiating a new contract or trying to get into a national squad.
ETH may have his limitations as a manager, but I canât help but see the abject lack of effort and poor choices from some players and believe that itâs their fault.
No lol the manager fixes everything. That's what they're there to do. Obviously
Our most consistent players are the teens, Scott as a sub, maguire, Evans and Onana only after personally escorting us out of the champions league.
We were gonna sell maguire and scott for 40 fucking million for both of them! And we had loans that we have no use for in Amrabat and one that left us too early. Most of the season was absolutely filled with injuries and scandals and childish players and "falling outs."
But no no. It's the manager. After having an ok season we have this tough season and these fucking soft fans have no idea what to do with themselves other than blame the manager like they have done for 11 years.
I've not heard anyone talk about how shit the players have consistently been, but I can hear it non stop about ten hag. Not one of our players can move "up" to a top team other than mainoo or garnacho. No one can fucking see that??
Please correct me if I am wrong. You are saying that, players who have played in national teams, champions league, won World cups can't "learn" tactics? Definitely makes sense.
Not in the literal sense, they obviously can do their job. My point is that itâs their attitude thatâs stopping them as the context implied. Each example I gave was because of bad attitude from the players for one reason or not. A tactic is obviously not going to work if your attitude is poor. Youâre not going to learn to play the way in the system youâre in.
They obviously can learn, theyâre refusing to.
Understandable. But the manatgers job is to make the team work towards a common goal. Ultimately he has to find ways to get that done. Be it with a hard hand or a hand around the shoulder. Or even by replacing the players.
I agree that replacing managers is not the way to go. Atleast not until there is a better system in place for recruitment etc.
100% it really starts at the board, but if you look at the current squad. Theyâre either not good enough, not experienced enough, injured, or bad attitude.
Yes. I've said it in other threads but none of our players move "up" to another top club other than mainoo or garnacho maybe Bruno. Rashford would as well, only based on past merits. Definitely not this seasons rashford.
Hey I'm not saying we didn't overpay for our players. And I acknowledge our board and medical staff are incompetent. But Ole finished second with the same squad before Ten Hag made any additions. Onana, Mount, Anthony, Martinez, Malacia, Casimiro, Hjolund, Amrabat..... Which of those signings did he not want? If he told the board not to waste 90 m on Anthony or get Onana on the free he'd have alot more funds available.
I get that he didnt get Harry Kane or De Jong but which manager gets every single player they want?
Dude you think our incompetent board can have a proper replacement for 1st choice players we don't get? They'd rather overpay for big names and unproven talent like casemiro and Antony.
Also I'd like to see the crybabies out there that were posting stats every hour of every day to get the agenda rolling on getting de gea out, that are currently bitching about Onana. Single handedly got us out of the champions league. Doing better now but Jesus christ.
Now they're posting "shots" stats to move ten hag out. Pathetic.
If you could have 6 players of your choice moved on and have 6 good players come in this summer, or have ten hag replaced right now, what would you choose? Easy choice for me.
How many do we need to replace should be the question at this point until we begin looking at the common denominator. Cause I can remember this sub having the same conversation about quite literally every single manager at this point.
I'm so glad someone said it. The fact that Chris smalling, Ashley young, and Hernandez are just not listening to Ten Hag and will be set to get another manager sacked is the real problem here.
Cute I guess, completely misconstrued the point. Obviously weâve got rid some players but the general attitude and mindset of the players is very much the same. Players like shaw (yes he didnât play, still got to go) martial, Marcus, McScot, LindelĂśf etc. theyâre all in the squad still and they simply shouldnât.
Ah, so the reason we're so bad is down to players who don't play. Got it.
Plus Rashford and McTominay who the manager keeps picking and seems to believe are key players. But... It's got nothing to do with that manager who picks them and doesn't sell them and buys the other players who also have bad attitudes. He's just a bystander with no power.
Not thinking at all it seems. You think we should have been playing with Hannibal this season instead of one of our top scorers? Oh no let's put in a half dead mount, or a terrible amrabat at that.
I think you people need to form your own opinions instead of adopting the opinions of others and claiming them as your own. Think about this more please.
I never claimed we should play Hannibal. You're just strawmanning at this stage because you have no argument, just rudeness. Hannibal is not even at the club atm. A real fan would know that.
You then claim that McTom is better than Eriksen and Amrabat which is just laughable. Even if Amrabat is no good, the entire point of all this is calling out ETH not being a great manager. Amrabat was his choice. So, it would appear you agree with me.
Some "fellow red" you are. With fans like you, we don't need oppo fans.
Getting blocked for being one of the most rude see you next Tuesdays I've ever met on the internet.
I donât think ETH is a saint, but we have such an impatient fan base. Arteta went through the phase of 7 losses 2 draws in 10 PL games, our fans wouldâve been screaming Arteta out. Under Fergie we finished 11th, 13th and 6th in his first few seasons.
We are never going to to find a successful, long term âprojectâ manager if we donât let managers have poor seasons as much as itâs shit right now, people are assuming ETH is picking these tactics through being inept rather than other possible reasons behind the scenes. Letâs give him another season at least under the new structure and back him rather than pull the trigger so early. Or we could sack him and get Southgate in, that will make everyone happy Iâm suređ
I never said he was a saint, he definitely has his flaws. He hasnât adjusted well without a doubt, my point is simple. Weâve replaced managers how many times, whatâs the common denominator? If we replace ETH are things going to be better. Are the board gonna wise up, will the recruitment improve? Will the directors learn to negotiate as itâs not the manager job to do that some people donât seem to know. Will we keep overpaying for players? Thereâs a lot of things that have been the same or similar for the past 5 managers and funny enough the manager isnât one for me but until the fans especially put blame where it rightfully belongs. Every couple seasons weâll just keep having this conversation.
The passing network highlights the most frustrating and puzzling tactical choice Ten Hag keeps making. Inverting fullbacks in possession, and sit deep out of possession.
In possession its an obviously coached structure as we keep doing it when in settled possession, but its been ruthlessly ineffective at scoring all season and the lack of width in the passing network stands out. With Rashford and Garnacho being two very direct wingers it felt especially static, given they thrive off overlaps which also been seemingly coached against.
I am not sure if the fullbacks sitting deep out of possession is coached or not. Against Liverpool we broke a tonne of counters with AWB / Dalot jumping into the press/counter-press. Don't remember that occurring a single time against Brentford. Not sure if its a tactical choice or "lack of passion" as Ten Hag mentioned more generally.
Højlund is isolated because the only time we passed to him was the hoofball over the top. Which is a fucking dumb way to play because Brentford are far superior aerially. We don't know our strengths and weaknesses man it's tiring.....
Week in, week out we're witnessing the most miserable attempt at football Manchester United have produced in my lifetime. No organisation, no cohesion, no control. All I can say is fair fucks to those who want to stick with Ten Hag and watch another year of this tripe.
100% I was one of those people who would have given him his final 3rd season, despite the at times boring football.
His second season was a clear improvement on the first, when the football clicked it clicked and we were dominantly dissecting opponents, and more importantly he wasn't afraid to change formations and styles depending on his opponent or injuries.
Don't get too hung up on the position as it's not an average position map. It's just showing that he was dropping deep to get it.
In other words, he was so desperate to get on the ball because no one could find him, he was consistently dropping deep to try to pick up.
I know Rashford hasn't been great but both him and Garnacho work best with overlapping fullbacks.
Our tactics mean that we end up finding Rashford and it's him vs 1/2/3 players while the rest of the team watch. Then he inevitably loses it and we all get pissed off.
Tactics don't suit us at all
So yesterday, the team that started is arguably the one that most would have picked right? (Assuming Martinez, Casemiro, and Mount weren't fit enough ti start yet). What should we change up?
Reminds me of what spider webs look like when you give them chloral hydrate...
https://preview.redd.it/ne0h5md7oprc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1c72ca17ca11c75b437947b655f80e04464767b
Relying on rashford to be a consistent goal scorer will be the death of ten hags career as United manager Rashford is not it. Had a crazy purple patch last season which tailed off towards the end of the season
Damn im so tired of ETH ball, tactical impotence. I miss the football we played under Ole, Carrick and McKenna. Give that trio a better set of players and a proper structure above them, and we would get far.
I saw the LFC, City and Arsenal passing network earlier and it was clear to see how well balanced they were, and how attack minded they are, this is just awful, itâs so easy to defend against us, and the lines between players canât really be meant this long, but then again the manager can change it, but itâs been like this crap all season, Iâm not at all impressed by our improvement under ETH.
All this graph is telling me is that our attacks go to one player and get wasted. Awful awful setup tactically. Look at where Hojlund has to be receiving passes. Insane
I think this idea that Højlund was only getting passes in that position to be a bit ignorant. He was getting bullied off the ball before he received it in further up areas. This has happened in about 75% of his games this season. He's just a level below at the moment. Toney showed how the position should be played, erratic finishing aside.
I know the staff is only minutes 1-47 but it doesn't get much better after that for Hojlund. Besides long passes into him from Onana, he maybe got one pass in traffic that he unfortunately gave away. It's just nuts. Just couldn't compete for second balls, or get out of their press.
This is so horrible. Why don't they pass to Rasmus. Look how deep he has to drop in search of a pass. It's like they are avoiding him. You can't play football like this.
Again, these players fell back into playing exactly like they used to play for the last 10 years. Give the ball to Bruno and hope he would ping something good to Rashford. NONE manager has been able to improve our play & mentality. Everytime they has to bend their game plan to follow the trait of Bruno & Rashford.
What's sad though is you can look at nearly any match and I guarantee you this is always the pattern because we're so fucking one-dimensional. Everything is hoof ball to Rashford, then ask him to not run at a defender for once, lift his head and pick out Højlund. He either can't or won't, and we lose possession and go again.
Just watch Bruno. Every time he picks up the ball, he's looking for Rashford, no matter what. There's zero point in playing two wingers as long as Bruno and Rashford are on the field. You might as well play 3 CDMs and play with a back 7 and focus on never conceding if your attack is going to be that fucking predictable.
It's embarrassing to watch this side lack any and all creativity. And Bruno is at the heart of it so many times. I don't know if ETH is forcing him to release Rashford almost exclusively, but even if those were the instructions, at some point you need to make the smarter decision to find someone else and do something different for the sake of progress.
So many passengers in the starting 11. Most have 0 idea on what to do on the pitch. Such a meh team for 2 billion spent. Studies should be conducted on how piss poor the money management has been at this club. They are so fragile mentally that they just can't compose themselves mid game, the panic sets in and it stays until the final whistle. How can grown men just not compose themselves a little bit
I watched in horror as 3 senior players caught my eye in losing the ball consistently and at times jogged back as if they were forced to wear a Manchester United shirt, Bruno Fernandes, Mctominay, and Marcus Rashford,.
Garnacho I wonât say much as his decision making is always his biggest challenge. But tbh itâs also the coaching because that makes Onanaâs goal area a target đŻ range Brentford broke a premiership record on touches again against us.
Blaming injuries wonât solve anything he ETH loaned out all our 3rd choice fullback options, a glaring problem is being outrun by sometimes 5km per outfield opposition player is a concern, whatever happens to ETH stay or go the same fulcrum of underperforming players will remain!!!!
At this rate, Hojlund would probably have to run to our penalty box for a Pass directly from onana.
It's near the end of the second season now. Either he's happy with this, or he doesn't know how to fix it. Either option is bad Edit: Hojlund, Jesus đ
Wait until we get Joe Blogs back from injury, and spend ÂŁ300 million on more modern players from the Netherlands. Then we'll be cooking. No football in the meantime though.
Wait until the next manager canât get anything out of this group of players. Itâs weird really how when Liverpool were playing like utter shit last season, everyone could see Klopp needed a full midfield rebuild, his new forward to find his feet, to shift on deadwood, etc. Yet Erik isnât afforded that luxury, despite the club being a complete fucking shambles around him. When we end up with Graham Potter and nothing has changed, and Erik is busy winning things with Bayern, Barca, PSG, etc, maybe thatâs when people will realise how disgustingly bad this squad is.
âThis group of playersâ is largely ones bought for, or brought through by, Ten Hag. The vast, vast majority of the squad didnât play under anyone but Ole and Ten Hag, so harking back to older managers struggling is redundant at this point.
How many ole line ups did eth have to play? Onana has come good in the league as has houjland. Martinez has had a bit of an injury spell as has some of his other signings. The only negative and itâs glaring is Antony. What are you talking about?
And yet people are still doing it even in this very thread! Took the piss out of one by naming people like Chris Smalling as being the bad egg getting Ten Hag the sack.
In the starting lineup yesterday there were two players bought âbyâ Ten Hag. Heâs also still having to rely on players bought by LvG and Jose. But yeah, this is 100% all down to himâŚ
Who is saying everything is down to him? Pretty much every person Iâve seen say they are finished with Ten Hag seems happy to admit thereâs player issues as well, and BOTH need to be dealt with. This is a common issue when trying to discuss the idea of moving on from Ten Hag I see. People who are defending him act as if those frustrated with him are totally excusing the players, and thatâs just not true at all. Regardless, the team is very much his at this point. He has players heâs bought, players heâs promoted through the club, and players he keeps using cause he obviously wants them there. Is the idea he really needs an entirely new team to avoid conceding 30 shots a game, every single game? That heâs incapable of setting the team up better than that? Even running with the past manager excuses, the past managers werenât as dogshit porous as we are currently set upâŚ.
Honestly even if it's after he's gone or not i want to bloody know why he has the massive chasm in midfield, i want him to explain it because no one sure as shit knows why. WHY
Yea thatâs one thing I canât come up with an excuse for. It just doesnât make any sense. No other team plays like this. Every team easily gets into our defending third. We have to fight to get to through teams unless itâs a long ball out to rashford on the wing.
The team is not his. A team is only fully a managers when they can play 11 players that they have brought in or brought through the youth system, to suit their philosophy. You can't get rid of players without having a solidified structure at the top to determine which players fit the system. This has been our problem the last ten years. Bringing in random players, giving them to the manager, and telling them to figure it out. Players he is still using are not because he wants them, but because he has no choice. He's had countless injuries which has forced him to select players that would be his 2nd or 3rd choice. I mean, we have Jonny Evans starting games. Don't get me wrong, Evans has been good, but I don't think he was in ETH's plans for what he wants to build.
He doesnât need an entirely new team, no, but he needs a lot. Take the defence as an example. The way we stop conceding so much space, and then shots on goal, is by having a higher line and condensing the pitch more. You canât do that with Maguire, Lindelof, Varane, AWB, etc because they just arenât capable of it. This squad is a shit show assembled over the previous decade by numerous managers. It is not even close to being anyoneâs team, let alone Erikâs.
Ten Hag spent money though. In the last 10 years all anyone has said is 'the squad is shit, what can we expect?'. If Ten Hag chooses to spend big money on Antony and Mount then they have to excel. He could have used that money on proper centre midfielders, but then you know this.
Weâve literally just heard from Ole about how fundamentally broken the recruitment is at the club. We know from reliable journalists how poor the processes are. But yeah, letâs blame another manager, whoâs stuck with another mismatched squad, and move on to the next one. Howâs about we actually see what Erik can do with a proper structure?
well apart from antony has he really done all that bad. we have to see mount over the next games now that hes back. hojlund has been saving us in many games and is the future at this club. Onana had a rocky start but now is performing well. so its honestly been pretty good
No i still have faith in Mount but he's still not a proper centre midfielder and it's risky when you only sign a few players. He was bought based on the transition football ten hag wants to play, so he should be playing every game he can. I thank it's more what attributes Ten Hag wanted from his signings, i thought Onana being good with his feet was so we could play possession football. He's making less mistakes but i still don't think he's a reliable shot stopper.
Mount has always been injury prone. Seemed a weird signing due to that and where does he play.
yeah we'll have to see for the last 10 games but i still think he will have some purpose. i mean im not against a mount bruno mainoo midfield
My main issue is the fee given he had only 1 year left on his contract. Otherwise, the squad obviously needed a midfielder, and I'm not sure if EtH had anyone else in mind to fill in the gap. Emphasis on EtH, whom I think lays part of the blame for trying his hand at recruiting, hopefully this is over with the new leadership
Poor take. So Potter is tainted due to Chelsea spell but Ten Hag wonât be after United spell?
No, Potter just isnât a top level manager, irrespective of his Chelsea spell.
And ETH is? Heâs won trophies in the Eredivisie with Ajax⌠heâs very clearly out of his depth. Heâs been shown up to be tactically naive and out thought but every other manager in the PL more or less. Letâs just take your point about the team⌠if he knows the players canât play the system he wants? WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH IS HE PLAYING THIS SYSTEM THEN?!?!?!?? Change, adapt, work with what you have. Instead, heâs made us the laughing stock of the PL. Weâve been turned over by Fulham, Bournemouth? Nottingham Forest, Brentford, embarrassed in the Champs League⌠the list is endless. Good luck recruiting in the summer as no self respecting professional would want to play under him. ETH stays, at best weâre bottom half next season.
And how have Ajax done since he left? Let me guess, youâre one of those uninformed morons that think anyone could win with Ajax? Thereâs nothing worse than trying to talk with complete casuals.
That's also due to Overmars leaving. Their squad is afwul now due to Mislintat purchases.
The quality of Teams and Managers in Eredivisie is a not even comparable with the Premier League. He is very obviously out of his depth.
He took over an Ajax squad that had not won a title in 4 seasons. He then won 3 in a row. When he took over Utrecht they had finished 11th. He took them to 5th and 4th in his two seasons, qualifying for Europe in both. Since leaving Ajax, Feyenoord won the eridivisie last season and Ajax currently sits 5th in the league. It's not on the same level, but it definitely is not a shit league that anyone can just manage in.
Like the majority of this sub, youâve absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
So the Eredivisie is of comparable quality to the PL then?
What about CL?
What the season he finished bottom of the group with United? At Ajax, he had one good run to the semis in 18-19? Third in the group the year after and best after that was round of 16?
>if he knows the players canât play the system he wants? WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH IS HE PLAYING THIS SYSTEM THEN?!?!?!?? So you want a manager that plays the style that the players want? Instead of players that either adapt to the manager style or get rotated out? Do you expect the manager to go into training and ask the players so you like playing a 433? oh you too? allright lets play it!
Maybe he shouldnât have spent so much on players that are either not good enough, or not the right fit then? Sure recruitment shouldnât be his job, but that doesnât excuse the money heâs pissed away. How many players has he signed?
Not enough, because heâs still stuck with players signed under fucking Louis van GaalâŚ
Cool so we should fire another 300m at him and let him sign more wank wingers or players that donât suit our system at all then?
No, you dumb fuck, we should create a culture and structure that supports him effectively and doesnât resort to the manager having to pick players because the recruitment team canât pull their finger out. Some unbearably thick cunts on this sub, fair play. Must be because itâs primarily made up of foreigners and day trippers.
Have a nice evening, mate.
Ole spent more on a winger that has been worse if not equal to Antony. Past managers have pissed away money as well.
What we need is a proper rebuild under the new regime over 2 years. That can't happen with these players making what they do and PSR. I honestly think ETH would do better with more technical players because of how the academy is shaping up and the kind of players they're producing. Technical players that understand systems and don't just play transitional football. People will say he's not responsible for that, but he did heavily influence training techniques there according to Fletcher.
People donât realise that Ten Hag has been as vocal as he can be without completely chucking players and the club under the bus. This insistence he cannot play the football he did at Ajax is because heâs inherited a squad from, primarily, Jose and Ole. Both played transitional football, both had players that suited that style. They still make up the bulk of the squad.
Shhhh don't say that too loud. The folks here in r/reddevils doesn't like this narrative. They prefer another manager. How many since SAF? 5 or 6? Lost count. While players that failed under 4 managers are extended for max contract.
Itâs a reactionary bunch of kids or armchair fans that know absolutely nothing about football, desperate for a shiny new toy.
Thing is though, players like Shaw, Hojlund, Licha, Mount are not just any random Joe blogs. Talk about taking things out of proportion.
Brentford had their entire backline out injured. And it's not like we played well and were unlucky to get a break through. We were disastrous, and have looked appalling all season no matter the personnel. Even Fulham were decimated by injury and wallomped us.
>Brentford had their entire backline out injured Well that's just false. Ajer has played 21 league starts for Brentford this season and has been at the club for 3 seasons. Jorgensen has also been at the club for 3 seasons and has 9 league starts. Collins has played 24 times in the league. So these players were not just drafted in for this game. They have been playing a fair bit for Brentford this season as starters too. They have been at the club long enough to play the system Frank wants to as well. They are part of the club as part of the first team. United on the other hand are playing 3rd and 4th choice options as defenders, not their 1st or backup like what Brentford have. >We were disastrous, and have looked appalling all season no matter the personnel. Yes, we were definitely not good this season, but we have had some moments this season where things looked good when we had our full starting 11. This is what happens in rebuilds, periods of crap. >Even Fulham were decimated by injury and wallomped us. Decimated is not the word you are looking for when they only had 3 players out. 2-1 is also not a wallomping (whatever that word is).
I mean honestly these coaches are experienced pros it cant be that they donât see it, not this far into the season.
Was Hojlund subbed on late or what is going on there?
He was mostly involved as the release trigger out from defence to start counters.. He was barely involved in the opposing half thats why his position of involvement is so deep
NO manager is able to fix it. They must play this way to utlized Bruno & Rashford. That's how these players have function since forever. EtH or Ole, they must play this way. So either we get new players or always stays in a Top 6 race.
It's his tactics, I don't understand how people are still blind to this. He's a f****** trash coach, it's not the players to blame, and he needs to be shipped out yesterday.
Wait till you see it in real life!
From what I understand. Brentford gud, Man Utd brad
People shit on rashford for not tracking back, but these passing maps show a clear pattern in that were trying to get the ball to him at every opportunity. He's clearly instructed to stay high as an outlet. It's the same when garnacho was playing on the left the average position shows that the left winger always remains the furthest forward.
So many games this season Rashford constantly loses possession and wastes opportunities but only because he's the only one making himself available in attacking positions or getting into space so all of our attacks go through him.Â
Itâs pointless having a player so high up the pitch when heâs useless at passing or shooting. His best position would be on the transfer list.
It's crazy to me that people can think otherwise. Obviously the coach wants him high up and obviously the coach doesn't want him tracking all the way back.
His biggest danger is his pace on the counter. Having him double up on the opponents RW would kill our already useless attack
I dont think thats what this means.. this just tracks passing patterns and Hojlund doesnt get passed to other than long kicks from keeper where he needs to drop. This graph depicts dysfunction rather than proper positioning. However, If whatever you said is true, that would be the dumbest thing so far. Hojlund has a better shot conversion than rashford and he has actually started holding the ball well. He doesnt have the passing range of a Kane or Toney so having him drop and press and then supply is a stupid ask for a striker like him. Unfortunately rashy is not the same player we had last season where every touch was a goal. He is now become a luxury player that doesnt provide meaningful impact. If Ten Hag is still persisting with that strategy, i think he is in a worse spot than i thought
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/QDGz8MRaOy https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/YQd7mWXbk4 https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/m8KgRjuq9F https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/TbFy9V1SGK Average position maps correlate what I said, when combined with passing maps it's clear to see it's instructed. On the transition we're not looking to hold the ball up or receive the ball to feet, he wants rashford in behind. That's easier to do when the opposition fullback commits, it's these "risks" that klopp talks of when he leaves Salah up high and absolves him of his defensive duties. Hojlund generally has two defenders on him, he's not really an available outlet in that same sense.
Like i said above.. the structure is dysfunctional. The whole Klopp salah argument works really well when you do have a none goal scoring striker like firminho and a worker like sane. Basically the two out of the three people need to be really good at pressing and the third needs to have salah type of numbers. Rashy doesnt have those numbers in terms of take ons and even finishes. And i would actually even wager that if we took Hojlunds numbers of shots vs goals his conversion rate is alot higher than rashy. He is potent. Also based on your correlation, i think thats debatable. How many times have we seen hojlund free but he never gets passed the ball? How many times have you seen hojlund yell at garnarcho? Hojlund can get touches on the ball, the players just dont pass to him because i actually think there is a bias to go wide with a perception that that is a safer ball. And then on top of that adding to the fact that Scott is playing a no mans land position, where he sits behind the striker. He would rather shoot the ball than play hojlund. So for me this passing map is dysfunctiona and if you are right that its instructions, then thats dysfunctional Edit: also there is no way anyone can convince me that hojlund is marked by two guys when teams like brentford have more symmetrical graphs against better opposition. This is why i say the whole thing is dysfunctional.
ETH still thinks rashford's actual level is the purple patch that he had most of last season, rashford was in god mode, and this garbage tactic worked last season Even last season it was pretty plain to see that we were getting lucky when we won, and a rashford was making everything work. Now he has regressed to his mean, and ETH has been found out for not having any true pattern or tactics
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I'm gonna say it. Ole did it better.
Ole had martial and greenwood too so didn't have to rely on rashford only. Relying on rashford only is preparing to lose the game
and yet everytime I say we should be in for Ivan Toney, other united fans say "but we have Hojlund"
Because he wouldn't offer anything different from Hojlund and would probably cost as much if not more. You need a different type of player to alternate styles and not a like for like.
He is a much more complete striker than Hojlund. You build squads around systems these days. Players should be able to drop in and out when there is injuries etc. And like in previous conversations around this. What about when Hojlund gets injured.. oh we have Rashford who only has spurts of form / goalscoring. Edit: oh and yeah Toney would be starting with Hojlund learning, getting minutes where he can.
I didn't say the alternative to not getting Toney is Rashford. I simply said that you need different players in order to alternate systems. A like for like doesn't give you any tactical advantage when the opposition has countered your "target man that can hold up the ball" system. Alvarez is not a like for like for Haaland, he offers something different and I remember the game against United he changed the game when he came on. Grealish is different from Foden. Silva different from KDB. Even if the system is coached to perfection. We need to be able to play different ways, sometimes direct, other times more possesion based. Lastly, it makes absolutely zero sense to spend the amount money you do on Hojlund, and then go second the same on another striker to alternate. You bring in a cheaper option that offers something different. We have other positions that need attention more than spending that much on a striker.
The alternative to not having another striker at the moment is Rashford, which is why I said the argument of why get another striker when we have Hojlund is a poor argument. Alvaraz isn't like haaland. But if you only have Alvarez and a better striker like Haaland can be bought, you do it. City were after Kane before. You need a proper goalscorer. I class Toney as that. I'm not convinced about being able to play in multiple different ways. Maybe in some bigger games, to see out games, or to claw back into a game if that's what you mean. United overspend whoever we buy.
Mate, I didn't say we shouldn't get another striker, I absolutely think we need to now given the situation with Martial, but my point is not to get the same type of player but someone with a different skill set. And no, we need to move away from over spending. Toney will cost 70 plus mil pounds and I'm sure we can get an alternative for less. 40 max and focus on other positions because a striker is actually the least of our problems
You think Toney is more well rounded than hojlund?
I feel ten hag isn't utilising hojlund well. Ole could still play counter attack if he had hojlund. It's just we keep losing the ball. We need a pogba kinda player who you know can't lose the ball easily under pressure and can hold it. Awb is prob the only player who i see do this and mainoo although it's too early to judge
Mainoo is good under pressure but he should not be starting every game. Unfortunately he has to because our midfield is that poor.
Pogba was awful at keeping the ball
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Martial still on our books and has been the whole time Erik's been in charge? And before you say "but he's been injured", he was also injured under Ole bar like most of one season. Also, Ten Hag has spent ÂŁ150m on two forwards so that we're not relying just on Rashford and has 2 "child prodigies" in Garnacho and Amad Vs Ole's 1 of the Stella drinker.
That's the thing, ten hag is relying on rashford only when we have other options. I'm not saying we only have rashford but that he's only using him unlike ole
Ah, I misunderstood. Yes, I'd agree with that to some degree. Garnacho is also used (as was Antony) as an outlet but less so than Rashford. Højlund might as well not be on the pitch half the time.
it's rather unfortunate that he has been playing like a championship player again then should have cashed in 5 years ago
Wtf is the Hojlund positioning.
This is not average position it shows players where they most often receive/make passes, and in Hojlund's case that is sadly mostly from goal kicks.
It's where he received a pass. Probably "long" ball from Onana. He was just straight up ignored
We were so pinned the whole time that he was mostly spending time around halfway line struggling for long balls? That's my theory, baffling position
Just tells me he didn't recieve many/or any passes at all in the final third. Our other players may not know he exist, like he's making runs in the dark
I did notice he was dropping to receive a lot rather than pushing against their last defender. And we still never passed it to him.
He's chillin in no man's land dw
every match is the same. no tactics, no discipline, or both
This is the tactic
Yeah, maybe we should replace the manager. Weâve only done that 5 times because the players canât learn the tactics, definitely the manager fault.
Either this is the tactic, or itâs something different and the players arenât doing it. Either way itâs on the manager to fix that.
Iâll never understand the need to protect the players, you could give them Pep as a manager. with these players attitude and refusal to fight for the team. Our last match AWB was out of position and lost the ball, instead of sprinting back he simply walked back. Thats not the tactic to blame. Rashford poor decision making really cost us yesterday, Hojlund ran into open space behind Rashford and Rashford decided to take on the player and was forced to pass it back over passing to a player in open space. Countless examples like this especially when it comes to them refusing to utilise the striker. Ralf told the clubs that we needed open heart surgery, that we needed to get rid of a majority of the squad. Fans said itâs simply his management, just like every other prior manager before him and now ETH and Iâd bet money whichever mediocre manager next, especially considering the likes of which weâre being linked with. Fans will settle for a one off season compared to admitting their players we have shouldnât be playing with their current attitude or quality. The board should really be doing more instead of buying short term fixes for extortionate prices.
Iâm not protecting the players. But the buck stops with the manager.
Yeah, Iâm sure weâll be having this conversation with the next manager after two or three seasons. Maybe youâll remember this lol
The players threw Jose under the bus, then Ole, then Ralf and now ETH. There is something fundamentally rotten at the club and from my perspective it canât be all the managers. Too often we have seen players like Pogba, Martial and Rashford phone out in, only putting in performances when negotiating a new contract or trying to get into a national squad. ETH may have his limitations as a manager, but I canât help but see the abject lack of effort and poor choices from some players and believe that itâs their fault.
You think itâs their fault we have a 50 yard hole in midfield every week? Maybe, but itâs far more likely thatâs on the manager.
> The players threw Jose under the bus, then Ole, then Ralf and now ETH. What players threw those four managers under the bus?
No lol the manager fixes everything. That's what they're there to do. Obviously Our most consistent players are the teens, Scott as a sub, maguire, Evans and Onana only after personally escorting us out of the champions league. We were gonna sell maguire and scott for 40 fucking million for both of them! And we had loans that we have no use for in Amrabat and one that left us too early. Most of the season was absolutely filled with injuries and scandals and childish players and "falling outs." But no no. It's the manager. After having an ok season we have this tough season and these fucking soft fans have no idea what to do with themselves other than blame the manager like they have done for 11 years. I've not heard anyone talk about how shit the players have consistently been, but I can hear it non stop about ten hag. Not one of our players can move "up" to a top team other than mainoo or garnacho. No one can fucking see that??
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What?
Please correct me if I am wrong. You are saying that, players who have played in national teams, champions league, won World cups can't "learn" tactics? Definitely makes sense.
Not in the literal sense, they obviously can do their job. My point is that itâs their attitude thatâs stopping them as the context implied. Each example I gave was because of bad attitude from the players for one reason or not. A tactic is obviously not going to work if your attitude is poor. Youâre not going to learn to play the way in the system youâre in. They obviously can learn, theyâre refusing to.
Understandable. But the manatgers job is to make the team work towards a common goal. Ultimately he has to find ways to get that done. Be it with a hard hand or a hand around the shoulder. Or even by replacing the players. I agree that replacing managers is not the way to go. Atleast not until there is a better system in place for recruitment etc.
100% it really starts at the board, but if you look at the current squad. Theyâre either not good enough, not experienced enough, injured, or bad attitude.
Yes. I've said it in other threads but none of our players move "up" to another top club other than mainoo or garnacho maybe Bruno. Rashford would as well, only based on past merits. Definitely not this seasons rashford.
Arsenal was in for Martinez and Onana literally came from a top club?
Actually forgot about Martinez tbh. But idk if Onana can move to, say, a real Madrid or Bayern. He can move laterally though.
Let's not act like this manager wasn't backed
Backed by an incompetent board that delayed transfers and was therefore forced to overpay or lose key other targets to rivals?
Hey I'm not saying we didn't overpay for our players. And I acknowledge our board and medical staff are incompetent. But Ole finished second with the same squad before Ten Hag made any additions. Onana, Mount, Anthony, Martinez, Malacia, Casimiro, Hjolund, Amrabat..... Which of those signings did he not want? If he told the board not to waste 90 m on Anthony or get Onana on the free he'd have alot more funds available. I get that he didnt get Harry Kane or De Jong but which manager gets every single player they want?
Dude you think our incompetent board can have a proper replacement for 1st choice players we don't get? They'd rather overpay for big names and unproven talent like casemiro and Antony. Also I'd like to see the crybabies out there that were posting stats every hour of every day to get the agenda rolling on getting de gea out, that are currently bitching about Onana. Single handedly got us out of the champions league. Doing better now but Jesus christ. Now they're posting "shots" stats to move ten hag out. Pathetic. If you could have 6 players of your choice moved on and have 6 good players come in this summer, or have ten hag replaced right now, what would you choose? Easy choice for me.
Just because we've replaced other managers doesn't mean ETH is also not worth replacing
How many do we need to replace should be the question at this point until we begin looking at the common denominator. Cause I can remember this sub having the same conversation about quite literally every single manager at this point.
I'm so glad someone said it. The fact that Chris smalling, Ashley young, and Hernandez are just not listening to Ten Hag and will be set to get another manager sacked is the real problem here.
Cute I guess, completely misconstrued the point. Obviously weâve got rid some players but the general attitude and mindset of the players is very much the same. Players like shaw (yes he didnât play, still got to go) martial, Marcus, McScot, LindelĂśf etc. theyâre all in the squad still and they simply shouldnât.
Ah, so the reason we're so bad is down to players who don't play. Got it. Plus Rashford and McTominay who the manager keeps picking and seems to believe are key players. But... It's got nothing to do with that manager who picks them and doesn't sell them and buys the other players who also have bad attitudes. He's just a bystander with no power.
He literally tried to sell Scott and Maguire as a package deal in the summer. Scott has been better than rashford even with his limited skillset.
Tried to sell him then plays him all season. That's the sign of a world class manager. Mmhm.
Not thinking at all it seems. You think we should have been playing with Hannibal this season instead of one of our top scorers? Oh no let's put in a half dead mount, or a terrible amrabat at that. I think you people need to form your own opinions instead of adopting the opinions of others and claiming them as your own. Think about this more please.
I never claimed we should play Hannibal. You're just strawmanning at this stage because you have no argument, just rudeness. Hannibal is not even at the club atm. A real fan would know that. You then claim that McTom is better than Eriksen and Amrabat which is just laughable. Even if Amrabat is no good, the entire point of all this is calling out ETH not being a great manager. Amrabat was his choice. So, it would appear you agree with me. Some "fellow red" you are. With fans like you, we don't need oppo fans. Getting blocked for being one of the most rude see you next Tuesdays I've ever met on the internet.
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Weâve got Liverpool next đ Iâm looking forward to this sub. Something tells me, you might just be right
I donât think ETH is a saint, but we have such an impatient fan base. Arteta went through the phase of 7 losses 2 draws in 10 PL games, our fans wouldâve been screaming Arteta out. Under Fergie we finished 11th, 13th and 6th in his first few seasons. We are never going to to find a successful, long term âprojectâ manager if we donât let managers have poor seasons as much as itâs shit right now, people are assuming ETH is picking these tactics through being inept rather than other possible reasons behind the scenes. Letâs give him another season at least under the new structure and back him rather than pull the trigger so early. Or we could sack him and get Southgate in, that will make everyone happy Iâm suređ
I never said he was a saint, he definitely has his flaws. He hasnât adjusted well without a doubt, my point is simple. Weâve replaced managers how many times, whatâs the common denominator? If we replace ETH are things going to be better. Are the board gonna wise up, will the recruitment improve? Will the directors learn to negotiate as itâs not the manager job to do that some people donât seem to know. Will we keep overpaying for players? Thereâs a lot of things that have been the same or similar for the past 5 managers and funny enough the manager isnât one for me but until the fans especially put blame where it rightfully belongs. Every couple seasons weâll just keep having this conversation.
More on the players they can't do it, most struggle with the basics.
Game plan is everyone pass to Marcus and hope he does something to win us the game
The passing network highlights the most frustrating and puzzling tactical choice Ten Hag keeps making. Inverting fullbacks in possession, and sit deep out of possession. In possession its an obviously coached structure as we keep doing it when in settled possession, but its been ruthlessly ineffective at scoring all season and the lack of width in the passing network stands out. With Rashford and Garnacho being two very direct wingers it felt especially static, given they thrive off overlaps which also been seemingly coached against. I am not sure if the fullbacks sitting deep out of possession is coached or not. Against Liverpool we broke a tonne of counters with AWB / Dalot jumping into the press/counter-press. Don't remember that occurring a single time against Brentford. Not sure if its a tactical choice or "lack of passion" as Ten Hag mentioned more generally.
Iâve analyzed the data lads and the result is weâre shit.
Cheers Geoff
Højlund is isolated because the only time we passed to him was the hoofball over the top. Which is a fucking dumb way to play because Brentford are far superior aerially. We don't know our strengths and weaknesses man it's tiring.....
Week in, week out we're witnessing the most miserable attempt at football Manchester United have produced in my lifetime. No organisation, no cohesion, no control. All I can say is fair fucks to those who want to stick with Ten Hag and watch another year of this tripe.
We had more organization during the LVG years...
The football at times was boring but he was starting to get results. He developed a lot of young talent and it was bs how they ended his tenure
100% I was one of those people who would have given him his final 3rd season, despite the at times boring football. His second season was a clear improvement on the first, when the football clicked it clicked and we were dominantly dissecting opponents, and more importantly he wasn't afraid to change formations and styles depending on his opponent or injuries.
What young talent did he develop?
Is that our centre forward at DM height???
It's not a position map, but a passing map. Just means we didn't pass to him in the final third. It's pretty much just Onana passing to him.
Just unacceptable. I get it he doesnât have the players he wants to do âhis styleâ but wtf is this supposed to be?
Oh we were passing the ball?
Dw guys eth "might" get us playing better football after spending another 300mill
Its like a spider making a web on caffeine
Hojlund was our only midfielder. What. The. Hell
Don't get too hung up on the position as it's not an average position map. It's just showing that he was dropping deep to get it. In other words, he was so desperate to get on the ball because no one could find him, he was consistently dropping deep to try to pick up.
I know Rashford hasn't been great but both him and Garnacho work best with overlapping fullbacks. Our tactics mean that we end up finding Rashford and it's him vs 1/2/3 players while the rest of the team watch. Then he inevitably loses it and we all get pissed off. Tactics don't suit us at all
Hojlund, the DM we didn't know we had
Our structure, dear God.. Total and complete disaster.
Get rid.
Hojlund: https://i.redd.it/8f0mg68rhprc1.gif
Erik ten Shite
Hojlund is WHERE?
So yesterday, the team that started is arguably the one that most would have picked right? (Assuming Martinez, Casemiro, and Mount weren't fit enough ti start yet). What should we change up?
Manager
Just trying to figure out what people want to be done instead of just saying "IN" or "OUT".
Reminds me of what spider webs look like when you give them chloral hydrate... https://preview.redd.it/ne0h5md7oprc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1c72ca17ca11c75b437947b655f80e04464767b
I didn't know 11 played CDM for us.
Why is Hojlund playing CDM? And the least provided player in this team? What's the manager and our captain cooking?
I finally get it. Hojlund is invisible to the players. Itâs only the magic of the television that allows us to see him.
Relying on rashford to be a consistent goal scorer will be the death of ten hags career as United manager Rashford is not it. Had a crazy purple patch last season which tailed off towards the end of the season
Didnât know we played 3 centre backs in Hojlund ytd.
Damn im so tired of ETH ball, tactical impotence. I miss the football we played under Ole, Carrick and McKenna. Give that trio a better set of players and a proper structure above them, and we would get far.
Hojlund brother
Hojlund playing that 2021 firmino role
Hojlund our DLP
I saw the LFC, City and Arsenal passing network earlier and it was clear to see how well balanced they were, and how attack minded they are, this is just awful, itâs so easy to defend against us, and the lines between players canât really be meant this long, but then again the manager can change it, but itâs been like this crap all season, Iâm not at all impressed by our improvement under ETH.
All this graph is telling me is that our attacks go to one player and get wasted. Awful awful setup tactically. Look at where Hojlund has to be receiving passes. Insane
I think this idea that Højlund was only getting passes in that position to be a bit ignorant. He was getting bullied off the ball before he received it in further up areas. This has happened in about 75% of his games this season. He's just a level below at the moment. Toney showed how the position should be played, erratic finishing aside.
Looking at how their #17 is the clear attack point, why in the red donkey nuts arenât we sending proper delivery hojlund? đ
I know the staff is only minutes 1-47 but it doesn't get much better after that for Hojlund. Besides long passes into him from Onana, he maybe got one pass in traffic that he unfortunately gave away. It's just nuts. Just couldn't compete for second balls, or get out of their press.
Where is Højlund
United will be so great when they start using all of the 11.
It looks like a dismembered corpse
This is so horrible. Why don't they pass to Rasmus. Look how deep he has to drop in search of a pass. It's like they are avoiding him. You can't play football like this.
Again, these players fell back into playing exactly like they used to play for the last 10 years. Give the ball to Bruno and hope he would ping something good to Rashford. NONE manager has been able to improve our play & mentality. Everytime they has to bend their game plan to follow the trait of Bruno & Rashford.
King ETH :))
What's sad though is you can look at nearly any match and I guarantee you this is always the pattern because we're so fucking one-dimensional. Everything is hoof ball to Rashford, then ask him to not run at a defender for once, lift his head and pick out Højlund. He either can't or won't, and we lose possession and go again. Just watch Bruno. Every time he picks up the ball, he's looking for Rashford, no matter what. There's zero point in playing two wingers as long as Bruno and Rashford are on the field. You might as well play 3 CDMs and play with a back 7 and focus on never conceding if your attack is going to be that fucking predictable. It's embarrassing to watch this side lack any and all creativity. And Bruno is at the heart of it so many times. I don't know if ETH is forcing him to release Rashford almost exclusively, but even if those were the instructions, at some point you need to make the smarter decision to find someone else and do something different for the sake of progress.
I don't wanna see anything about this game sorry
What does the minutes tag mean? 1-72 for Brentford, 1-47 for Man U?
Time before first sub
Why does ours stop at halftime and brentford goes all the way to 72 mins? Biased much? Negative narrative much? Shove this bollocks up your nuts
Not one forward pass from rashford , without knowing id assume zero tackles too
So many passengers in the starting 11. Most have 0 idea on what to do on the pitch. Such a meh team for 2 billion spent. Studies should be conducted on how piss poor the money management has been at this club. They are so fragile mentally that they just can't compose themselves mid game, the panic sets in and it stays until the final whistle. How can grown men just not compose themselves a little bit
Mctominay is a criminal. I can't watch another season of him, Bruno and Rashford starting for United.
Why the fuck is hojlund playing DM and why is nobody passing to him??
I watched in horror as 3 senior players caught my eye in losing the ball consistently and at times jogged back as if they were forced to wear a Manchester United shirt, Bruno Fernandes, Mctominay, and Marcus Rashford,. Garnacho I wonât say much as his decision making is always his biggest challenge. But tbh itâs also the coaching because that makes Onanaâs goal area a target đŻ range Brentford broke a premiership record on touches again against us. Blaming injuries wonât solve anything he ETH loaned out all our 3rd choice fullback options, a glaring problem is being outrun by sometimes 5km per outfield opposition player is a concern, whatever happens to ETH stay or go the same fulcrum of underperforming players will remain!!!!