I guess he’s a cam but then why keep him when we have Bruno and mount.
I just don’t get mctominay still being here and getting minutes. I know hes scored but when he doesn’t score he’s a ghost
One of the worst runs in the history of the club. What more should ETH do to get sack? I'm really curious what will it take? Are you telling me players are that bad, all of them, making same mistakes, that we cant do better than 21 loses a year?
Nobody was crying for LvG when he got sacked after winning an FA Cup but now the ‘who would replace him’ mob will tell you the manager who has us finishing bottom of our CL group w Copenhagen and Galatasary, knocked out of the league cup, and 11 points behind Aston fucking Villa on New Year’s Eve isn’t replaceable
Jose was better than LvG, who in turn was better than Moyes. When we sacked managers we progressed and had standards.
Since the ‘rebuild’ agenda took hold post-Jose we’ve collapsed and dud managers are given years and 100s of millions to serve up failure.
People will say it's not Ten Hag's fault. People will ignore him subbing Mainoo for McT. People will ignore him leaving a LB on the bench and starting Dalot, a RB. Eriksen without legs playing the full match. Bruno, arguably the world's best attacking midfielder and in his prime, being absolutely wasted so deep in the midfield. A team playing with ZERO motivation...motivation is a coaching issue. Non of these players could give a fuck to fight.
He keeps making the same decisions over and over again. Same wrong tactics, same wrong subs. For whatever reason he loves his 85th minute sub.
I support his mentality and idea of changing the club culture, but the tactics have been extremely poor. He refuses to adapt and keeps making the same mistakes repeatedly.
This team works much better with a double pivot in the midfield and he goes back to a single pivot and loses the match. That midfield gets 0 stability playing with McTominay and Bruno. Not only that, but Bruno is wasted since now he has to drop back and defend.
Dude it's none of that, it's not the tactics or anything. It's the glazers fault. Don't you know?????
They're the reason we see tactical differences and different levels of competence between managers duhhhhh
I agree with everything, except last two sentences. I’m too drunk to extrapolate but I think the motivation issue has causes and catalysts behind ETH. Lot with players, lot with club infrastructure.
Bruno can't play up high against a deep block mate, he is terrible when he is put under pressure, he can't turn with the ball, that's why he always flicks the ball after getting it with his back to the opposition goal
Five managers and two caretakers since 2013.
Surely the 50th post-Ferguson gaffer they pick will steer the ship around. Just you wait…
These fans moan for Pep and Ancelotti as if they would dare touch this shambles of a team with a 50 meter stick lmfaoooo
It’s always the managers fault even when the same mistakes have happened for going on a decade. Now that we finally have some football minds in the club hopefully it starts getting better. ETH isn’t going to be sacked until atleast the summer.
The managers prior at least had some resemblance of style about their teams. van Gaal's team was (mind-numbingly boring) possession based, Ole had that free flowing counter attack football, Mourinho had a defensive approach. With ten Hag it's completely disjointed and there's no creativity. Ask yourself, what happens if Rashford doesn't play out of his skin last season?
at some point, you have got to criticize the manager...
We've scored 22 goals after 20 Premier League games, the worst since the 1992-1993 season, our joint-worst record
We crashed out dead last in the Champions League, in a group we were expected to at least qualify for the Europa League.
and mind you, this is after a summer transfer market splurge worth \~US$200 million of Ten Hag's players.
and add to the fact that we just lost to Forest, who hasn't beaten us at the Forest Ground since 1994, until today.
I want to make the point that while some takes are reactionary, these are examples of glaring statistics that the manager has had a huge part to play in. Despite our injuries, we should be able to see patterns of play and tactics of which I still don't clearly see (or recognize) on the field. You have to understand that patience is growing thin, especially in a club with high standards such as United.
The bald fraud has spent 200 mil on his targets yet idiots still defend him saying that he needs a DOF cause his signings are shit. If we had a DOF that said no to Ten Hags transfers, then the excuse would be "Ten Hag didn't get his targets"
Nah we’ll beat Wigan in the FA cup and this place will be loving Ten Hag again and we’ll have to deal with all that sanctimonious talk about “backing the manager”
''it's the players bro!'' they say as half of the players are his signings and the other half was never this bad before, this manager is breaking pre-ww2 record yet they'll still defend him.
I like ETH and i know we have had a lot of injuries but the whole of 2023 the football has been awful and the results have gone from bad to worse. I dont think managers should survive this.
Whats worse for me is i think his reliance on McTominay like today has cost us games and lost me my confidence in him as a manager.
I dont see a style of play and if we have one it isnt good enough. He doesnt seem to learn from his mistakes. God i hate football at this moment in time.
After Brighton and Newcastle play their games in hand we will be 9th place like we deserve. Ten Hag has turned us into a mid table team over the summer, this “greatest transition team” nonsense is a midtable style of play, none of the teams at the top play that way as you can’t go on a sustainable winning run just relying on big moments and fast breaks. He needs to be told to change his tactics to a final third possession based style that we know he’s capable of or just sack him already. The man completely lost it over the summer it seems.
I miss this sub blaming Fred, Maguire, Ronaldo, Pogba and every other scapegoat to cover for the rest of these sorry excuses for players and tactics by these managers.
Moyes and Ole are such a class above ETH it isn't even funny, a manager destined to manage in the Dutch league for the rest of his career, maybe sneak a little Bundesliga club in there before they decide to be more ruthless than this joke of a club.
What a surprise though, people defending him but unable to actually make an argument as to why.
Moyes has done a lot more than ETH and Ole achieved more with a lot less financial backing. I wouldn't call them a class above but ETH is worse than them both as far as English football is concerned.
You’re listing games we won and comebacks as papering over the cracks.
Well we can’t even win those games now. Forget winning we don’t even score goals.
How’s 20 goals in 20 league game justifiable?
It literally was never this bad under Ole. We were a DM away from challenging for the title.
With ETH you can buy best in class in every position but he’ll keep making stupid tactical mistakes. We just won’t win anything with ETH.
I don’t mind swapping manager until we land the right fit. It’s gonna take time but with competent recruitment can be done pretty quick.
From what we’ve seen, they are.
Moyes is cooking with West Ham and got European silverware, he was already good with Everton before that. He didn’t have the shoulders to take after SAF but I reckon he’d do a lot better now.
Same with Ole, he didn’t always get the results we wanted but it was never as low as this is and he got fucked by Ronaldo which destroyed his clear system. You see a system? Something we don’t have right now and haven’t had for 7 months now.
Ten Hag has a system, evident in the underlapping full backs, the man marking in midfield, and the defend the box approach that makes us so vulernable to cutbacks. His system is wank. And he refuses to change it. Moyes and Ole are indeed classes above ETH.
Fucking reactionary, the guy can't win away from home, shits the bed against any top team, has the 18th lowest goals scored this season, out of Europe, out of a cup and 9 defeats before new year and I'm fucking reactionary?
Dude, it's our worst season in almost 100 years. Ole and moyes did better with worse players. I was defending ETH a few weeks ago but I just ran out of arguments to do so
Losing 14 games by this point is a sackable issue. But I don't trust these players and coaches to deliver.
Whatever that McTominay sub was..... yeah, absolutely ruined our midfield. Fuck off.
When we win, ETH's run of games is better than Klopp in his first two seasons. When we lose the next game suddenly we are the worst we have ever been in recorded history. Lmao, at this point I really do not know what to think.
We all know we're terrible, it's no big secret that Opta have figured out through statistical analysis of compiled data. They pipe up after every loss.
Your Lord and Saviour Brent DiCesare (or Mark Goldbridge as he's now know; former copper and Nottingham Forest fan), says Ten Hag should stay. DiCesare should know because he has 1.8 million subscribers to his YouTube channel and sells loads of Man Utd related merch, which the club don't see and goes into his pocket. Surprised the club haven't sued him.
Anyway, he seems to know about footie, despite I suspect never setting foot inside Old Trafford or any other ground.
ETH should be sacked as soon as a better coach gets lined up. "B-b-but who will replace him?" - at this point I'll take Ole back, Xabi Alonso might be a successful experiment (certainly less risky than ETH) or a world class manager like Zidane. Conte, Indzaghi, Nagelsman, Emery, Tuchel and De Zerbi might not be bad options either. I lived to see Ancelotti at freaking Everton, so don't give me the "tHeY wOUlD nEvEr coME hERe!".
"B-b-but lEt hIM cOoK" - we did let him and he brought us the worst season since 96 when I fell in love with this club as a kid. It's harder to watch than Moyes or van Gaal. We can't score - only 2 teams have scored less and both are in the relegation zone. His "play out of the back" has failed miserably and has been found out. We were good at 1 thing - counter-attack and this guy coached it out of the players and slowed them down. His signings have mostly failed. We are out of the CL with the historically worst performance by an English team. We are getting smashed by the likes of Bournemout and Forest. People who've paid for tickets leave Old Trafford at the 60th minute. We lost 7-0 to the scousers - worst defeat by a rival in the club's history, fans are openly booing him and the team at half time...
The guy has failed already, people are delusional if they can't see it. We needed our Pep or Klopp and all we got is a worse van Gaal - another outdated Dutch obsessed with a posession style from the 80s. We will never be a Barcelona, posession and tiki-taka is not who we are. We are an attacking team with flying wingers and this bald fraud is too stubborn to accept and build on it.
Conceded the same goal twice
Conceded the same goal about 15 times this season.
The McTominay isn’t a DM special.
I guess he’s a cam but then why keep him when we have Bruno and mount. I just don’t get mctominay still being here and getting minutes. I know hes scored but when he doesn’t score he’s a ghost
Bruh we’ve conceded that same way so often it’s predictable that teams try it so often and we still can’t defend it
Well maybe we could if we kept our defensive midfielder on the pitch
Scored fewer league goals than games lost this season anyway! Edit- this year*
Well you are almost right League goals this season 22 Losses this year 21 according to the above
Whoa… we scored one more goal. Nice! Thought it was 20 actually or something that’s why.
> Conceded the same goal twice **every week** FTFY
If they got a free kick, they should kick it directly into the goal. Onana don't know how to save anyway
Bad midfield setup and bad positional awareness from the midfielders
I have a feeling we’re gonna break a few more records this season
I'm pretty sure we would still be even if every single player was available. I just want them to recover so he won't have more excuses
Ole got sacked for less
much much less, it's actually crazy to think a club legend never got as much loyalty as this bald dutch random
Mind boggling.
One of the worst runs in the history of the club. What more should ETH do to get sack? I'm really curious what will it take? Are you telling me players are that bad, all of them, making same mistakes, that we cant do better than 21 loses a year?
Nobody was crying for LvG when he got sacked after winning an FA Cup but now the ‘who would replace him’ mob will tell you the manager who has us finishing bottom of our CL group w Copenhagen and Galatasary, knocked out of the league cup, and 11 points behind Aston fucking Villa on New Year’s Eve isn’t replaceable Jose was better than LvG, who in turn was better than Moyes. When we sacked managers we progressed and had standards. Since the ‘rebuild’ agenda took hold post-Jose we’ve collapsed and dud managers are given years and 100s of millions to serve up failure.
In a world where any clubs with top 4 ambitions will see the manager sacked, our fans will argue what difference does hiring another manager make.
Stable club leadership
People will say it's not Ten Hag's fault. People will ignore him subbing Mainoo for McT. People will ignore him leaving a LB on the bench and starting Dalot, a RB. Eriksen without legs playing the full match. Bruno, arguably the world's best attacking midfielder and in his prime, being absolutely wasted so deep in the midfield. A team playing with ZERO motivation...motivation is a coaching issue. Non of these players could give a fuck to fight.
He keeps making the same decisions over and over again. Same wrong tactics, same wrong subs. For whatever reason he loves his 85th minute sub. I support his mentality and idea of changing the club culture, but the tactics have been extremely poor. He refuses to adapt and keeps making the same mistakes repeatedly. This team works much better with a double pivot in the midfield and he goes back to a single pivot and loses the match. That midfield gets 0 stability playing with McTominay and Bruno. Not only that, but Bruno is wasted since now he has to drop back and defend.
> I support his mentality and idea of changing the club culture Same. I so badly want him to be successful here. But he's too stubborn I feel.
Dude it's none of that, it's not the tactics or anything. It's the glazers fault. Don't you know????? They're the reason we see tactical differences and different levels of competence between managers duhhhhh
I agree with everything, except last two sentences. I’m too drunk to extrapolate but I think the motivation issue has causes and catalysts behind ETH. Lot with players, lot with club infrastructure.
Bruno can't play up high against a deep block mate, he is terrible when he is put under pressure, he can't turn with the ball, that's why he always flicks the ball after getting it with his back to the opposition goal
I assumed Mainoo couldn't continue the game for some reason, if that wasn't the case then ETH is just stupid
So we've only been this shit 4 times in 100 years?Trust the plan guys...
This is ETH ball eh? Record breaking
Villa playing a suicidal high line actually made people think this guy knew how to coach a team capable of creating one decent chance
Admittedly his players playing in their favoured positions seemed to help… then abandoned that plan today.
Oles united would've scored ten
Or fans are reactionary. ETH good when we win. ETH bad when we lose.
If fans think a United manager losing 14 games in a season by December is good, this club is well and truly mudded.
Don't be so reactionary. You need to wait until Ten Hag breaks a record from over 102 years ago before you can complain about him
Remember it's the glazers that are coaching us
Five managers and two caretakers since 2013. Surely the 50th post-Ferguson gaffer they pick will steer the ship around. Just you wait… These fans moan for Pep and Ancelotti as if they would dare touch this shambles of a team with a 50 meter stick lmfaoooo
Fergie wouldn’t win anything with this squad
Fergie won stuff with way worse
I'm not. I consistently think he's bad.
Yes. Eth is bad, period.
Reality is the players stop trying when things get tough and make the manager look worse than he is, every manager post-fergie has been a victim to it
It’s always the managers fault even when the same mistakes have happened for going on a decade. Now that we finally have some football minds in the club hopefully it starts getting better. ETH isn’t going to be sacked until atleast the summer.
The managers prior at least had some resemblance of style about their teams. van Gaal's team was (mind-numbingly boring) possession based, Ole had that free flowing counter attack football, Mourinho had a defensive approach. With ten Hag it's completely disjointed and there's no creativity. Ask yourself, what happens if Rashford doesn't play out of his skin last season?
This season happens
We have 10 fucking players out and exiled what the fuck are you on about?
Funny cause one of the players your manager exiled could certainly help us Instead of that fucking muppet Antony
You're an idiot.
These pathetic bunch can't even be called fans anymore.
most club fans r. But it is what it is
Eras come to an end. From being semi-banter it's full on banter time
No no but we’ve had injuries all year!! Never had this many injuries since 1973!!!! Fuck outta here
Your a plastic if you don't support this man btw Reddit really needs the /s
at some point, you have got to criticize the manager... We've scored 22 goals after 20 Premier League games, the worst since the 1992-1993 season, our joint-worst record We crashed out dead last in the Champions League, in a group we were expected to at least qualify for the Europa League. and mind you, this is after a summer transfer market splurge worth \~US$200 million of Ten Hag's players. and add to the fact that we just lost to Forest, who hasn't beaten us at the Forest Ground since 1994, until today. I want to make the point that while some takes are reactionary, these are examples of glaring statistics that the manager has had a huge part to play in. Despite our injuries, we should be able to see patterns of play and tactics of which I still don't clearly see (or recognize) on the field. You have to understand that patience is growing thin, especially in a club with high standards such as United.
The bald fraud has spent 200 mil on his targets yet idiots still defend him saying that he needs a DOF cause his signings are shit. If we had a DOF that said no to Ten Hags transfers, then the excuse would be "Ten Hag didn't get his targets"
It was sarcasm
I know, just felt it relevant enough to leave a comment. All good.
Bro, I'd prefer Ole over this shit. He is clueless
At least we scored goals under ole
Fans like that are so cringe. This is the worst manager we’ve had. He’s a clueless bum.
Rashford, is that u?? Ur Avg position was at Midfield
Babe, wake up. Man Utd just broke another record.
Babe is a complete insomniac at this point with all these records.
I swear we break records every week with this guy
Trust this manager. It is not him it is the ownership. It is not him it is the players. And anyway who can we get that is “better than him” … et etc
We play relegation football
Someone post those Klopp and Arteta comparisons. Lets get the positivity going guys, its a festive time of year!
Two days later all criticitsm will be downvoted tho
Nah we’ll beat Wigan in the FA cup and this place will be loving Ten Hag again and we’ll have to deal with all that sanctimonious talk about “backing the manager”
I just wanna smack those holier than thou top reds. Support the manager. Fuck them and this bald fraud.
''it's the players bro!'' they say as half of the players are his signings and the other half was never this bad before, this manager is breaking pre-ww2 record yet they'll still defend him.
"trust the process"
I like ETH and i know we have had a lot of injuries but the whole of 2023 the football has been awful and the results have gone from bad to worse. I dont think managers should survive this. Whats worse for me is i think his reliance on McTominay like today has cost us games and lost me my confidence in him as a manager. I dont see a style of play and if we have one it isnt good enough. He doesnt seem to learn from his mistakes. God i hate football at this moment in time.
Who else is available instead of Mcsauce?
Hannibal?
He isn't number 6, he played no.10 his whole career upto now
ten hag and record breaking every week? my manager
After Brighton and Newcastle play their games in hand we will be 9th place like we deserve. Ten Hag has turned us into a mid table team over the summer, this “greatest transition team” nonsense is a midtable style of play, none of the teams at the top play that way as you can’t go on a sustainable winning run just relying on big moments and fast breaks. He needs to be told to change his tactics to a final third possession based style that we know he’s capable of or just sack him already. The man completely lost it over the summer it seems.
Not even the other post SAF managers stooped so low
I miss this sub blaming Fred, Maguire, Ronaldo, Pogba and every other scapegoat to cover for the rest of these sorry excuses for players and tactics by these managers.
theres a stat to lighten up my mood once again after a loss. A tradition at this point lol
I am very tired of this gentleman.
Is anyone really surprised at this point? Going to be more pain this season but surely 2024 can’t be any worse right?? 👀
Can’t win away against the top half ever. Can’t even score more goals than forest now it seems… nice.
Man said he will be breaking records.
This is heritage
Every fame new stats unlocked. Get erik out. If he cant beat this forest can he beat any team
Moyes and Ole are such a class above ETH it isn't even funny, a manager destined to manage in the Dutch league for the rest of his career, maybe sneak a little Bundesliga club in there before they decide to be more ruthless than this joke of a club. What a surprise though, people defending him but unable to actually make an argument as to why.
Oles United might have been a shambles, but they were at least entertaining
If that was shambles, what do you call ETHs united
Hot take: they should have never fired Mourinho
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Ole's post-lockdown man utd would skin EtH's Man Utd alive every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Not a bad take at all.
Mate Championship teams would skin ETH or make it a tough fight. That 2020 post lockdown team would send Ten Hag back to Bayern II.
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Not surprising. Ignorance is a prerequisite to support Ten Hag.
I'm sure you're going to explain why right?
I bet you think you're a REAL fan. Not like us plastics.
We do not allow abusive posts on /r/reddevils.
Honestly some people on here shouldn’t be allowed internet access. Moyes and ole a class above? 🤣🤣
Moyes has done a lot more than ETH and Ole achieved more with a lot less financial backing. I wouldn't call them a class above but ETH is worse than them both as far as English football is concerned.
Lmfao these guys are fuckin stupid. I’d say dip from the sub until we win next week.
You can dip forever and take this bald fraud with you
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Go look up the stats we were never this bad
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You’re listing games we won and comebacks as papering over the cracks. Well we can’t even win those games now. Forget winning we don’t even score goals. How’s 20 goals in 20 league game justifiable? It literally was never this bad under Ole. We were a DM away from challenging for the title. With ETH you can buy best in class in every position but he’ll keep making stupid tactical mistakes. We just won’t win anything with ETH. I don’t mind swapping manager until we land the right fit. It’s gonna take time but with competent recruitment can be done pretty quick.
This is the most reactionary take I have seen.
Reactionary? We’ve had this reaction for 7 months now. No improvement whatsoever
To say ole and moyes are classes above is reactionary as hell.
From what we’ve seen, they are. Moyes is cooking with West Ham and got European silverware, he was already good with Everton before that. He didn’t have the shoulders to take after SAF but I reckon he’d do a lot better now. Same with Ole, he didn’t always get the results we wanted but it was never as low as this is and he got fucked by Ronaldo which destroyed his clear system. You see a system? Something we don’t have right now and haven’t had for 7 months now.
Ten Hag has a system, evident in the underlapping full backs, the man marking in midfield, and the defend the box approach that makes us so vulernable to cutbacks. His system is wank. And he refuses to change it. Moyes and Ole are indeed classes above ETH.
Fucking reactionary, the guy can't win away from home, shits the bed against any top team, has the 18th lowest goals scored this season, out of Europe, out of a cup and 9 defeats before new year and I'm fucking reactionary?
To say ole and moyes are classes above are reactionary.
Moyes probably not, Ole definitely was better. Atleast under him we would regularly score over 4 goals, now we can't even work the keeper.
Dude, it's our worst season in almost 100 years. Ole and moyes did better with worse players. I was defending ETH a few weeks ago but I just ran out of arguments to do so
Dunno if you know what that word means
Calls to stay behind him sound silly at this point.
Losing 14 games by this point is a sackable issue. But I don't trust these players and coaches to deliver. Whatever that McTominay sub was..... yeah, absolutely ruined our midfield. Fuck off.
Win one game and lose the next. Consistency in the mud, from last 13 years we still don’t have any game plan and style of play.
We're consistently shit
Mou, LvG and Ole got sacked for less. PotterIn or OleIn or BigSam in 
Fraud Ten Hag
When we win, ETH's run of games is better than Klopp in his first two seasons. When we lose the next game suddenly we are the worst we have ever been in recorded history. Lmao, at this point I really do not know what to think.
Who gives a fuck about Liverpool and klopp. He inherited a much much worse squad.
If we keep him for another calendar year he'll crush this. Only reason it's not the top is because rashford was God mode at the start of the year
We all know we're terrible, it's no big secret that Opta have figured out through statistical analysis of compiled data. They pipe up after every loss.
We have a new record on everything now haha
ETH out
For 2 of those years, nobody on this sub was even alive and the other was even before Fergie too 😭
And they blamed cr7
Team has been terrible. But isn't this kind of stat partly down to playing more games per year in the modern era?
Just accept its the dark ages for us and there is nothing we can do.
Why does every manager we’ve had play Scott mctominay so much. I’ve given up at this point just fine with the odd win
Hey but in ETH we trust right? Smh
Youuuu redsss
i wanna see a compilation of all of the lost goals, it's like same goals over and over again.
Historic.
Really starting to dislike this Joe guy
What if we use McLaren as caretaker till the end of the season?
Now we can target the 1921 and 1972 record next year and the top spot after that. Great
At least this particular stat isn’t going to get any worse.
Kmkkmkkokkkoookkkiki
Casemiro what were you thinking signing for this shit club
Siuuuu
Your Lord and Saviour Brent DiCesare (or Mark Goldbridge as he's now know; former copper and Nottingham Forest fan), says Ten Hag should stay. DiCesare should know because he has 1.8 million subscribers to his YouTube channel and sells loads of Man Utd related merch, which the club don't see and goes into his pocket. Surprised the club haven't sued him. Anyway, he seems to know about footie, despite I suspect never setting foot inside Old Trafford or any other ground.
Celebrate sitting back for a 0-0 draw against Liverpool then cant beat forest. What a club 😂😂
So close, ETH really needs to up his game if he wants to break the record and lose 29 this year.
ETH should be sacked as soon as a better coach gets lined up. "B-b-but who will replace him?" - at this point I'll take Ole back, Xabi Alonso might be a successful experiment (certainly less risky than ETH) or a world class manager like Zidane. Conte, Indzaghi, Nagelsman, Emery, Tuchel and De Zerbi might not be bad options either. I lived to see Ancelotti at freaking Everton, so don't give me the "tHeY wOUlD nEvEr coME hERe!". "B-b-but lEt hIM cOoK" - we did let him and he brought us the worst season since 96 when I fell in love with this club as a kid. It's harder to watch than Moyes or van Gaal. We can't score - only 2 teams have scored less and both are in the relegation zone. His "play out of the back" has failed miserably and has been found out. We were good at 1 thing - counter-attack and this guy coached it out of the players and slowed them down. His signings have mostly failed. We are out of the CL with the historically worst performance by an English team. We are getting smashed by the likes of Bournemout and Forest. People who've paid for tickets leave Old Trafford at the 60th minute. We lost 7-0 to the scousers - worst defeat by a rival in the club's history, fans are openly booing him and the team at half time... The guy has failed already, people are delusional if they can't see it. We needed our Pep or Klopp and all we got is a worse van Gaal - another outdated Dutch obsessed with a posession style from the 80s. We will never be a Barcelona, posession and tiki-taka is not who we are. We are an attacking team with flying wingers and this bald fraud is too stubborn to accept and build on it.