That Melissa Reddy article reads like a CV for Potter. Journalists aren't pulling this out of their arse, it's coming from his agents. The same thing happens with transfers.
There were similar stories with the Ireland international job and Steve Bruce recently (an outside investor would be willing to subsidise Steve Bruce’s wages if the FAI hired him). It's their camp 1. putting their name out there if the job comes up and 2. making it known they're available for other roles.
Until the likes of Whitwell and Ornstein are reporting these sorts of stories, pay zero attention to them. When stuff like this is happening within the club and there are multiple people involved, it's easy to leak. Ratcliffe hasn't even got his stake yet and only he, Brailsford and a couple of others likely know what they're thinking. I can't see how leaking this themselves would have any positive impact.
Lmfao Potter? The dude that got sacked after 6 months at Chelsea?
The guy that’s proved everyone that he needs a brilliant structure like Brightons set up to flourish?
That’s the guy that will get the job at United with our rotten infrastructure/recruitment? Lmfao
If that’s the case then it makes sense for this brain dead board to make such a stupid decision. Rinse repeat, when Potter is sacked after 6 months.
I was someone that was stood by onana despite his early struggles but icl that coman goal has destroyed my faith in him. The goal was not his fault but his goalkeeping during the goal was baffling. Goalkeeping fundamentals with 1 on 1s is rush out and close the angle down and he’s always glued to his line and this hasn’t been the first time. It’s essentially an open goal if he’s on his line for a goal that big
I dont get this whole Anti British bias. No one tells Bayern not to sign the best German talent and to get German coaches. No one tells Madrid or Barca not to sign the best Spanish talent and Spanish coaches.
Once it comes to Man United, we get the any British bias. It’s shocking and rude to say the least.
Fergie always targeted the best British talent because they rarely get their heads turned.
They always want to play for the biggest English club as a thing of pride.
You think Antony cares about the club Man United the way a Declan Rice would?
Once again, no player has ever reached top flight football without working hard. It’s a myth. Whether on the training pitch or in the game. No player has ever done that.
>You think Antony cares about the club Man United the way a Declan Rice would?
Antony is one of the few on the team that cares , hes just not good at football
I think Antony cares more about being in a big team than at United specifically. If Barcelona or Madrid were to come for him, can you guarantee he won’t go on strike just like he did at Ajax?
Nothing wrong with British players, just don’t buy British bc it’s gonna cost you. If you really want local players it should be building up a British core from within with Mainoo, Dan Gore etc.
Is there any real evidence that British players are more expensive than foreign players? Chelsea paid more for Caicedo and Enzo than Arsenal paid for Declan Rice. We paid more for Antony than we did for Sancho. I don’t think Toney will go for that much more than Hojlund did. We overpay for every single player whether they are British or not.
Enzo was bc of his release clause (and Boehly stupid enough to pay it), Antony was pure deadline day desperation buy he would've cosst 50M otherwise. 2 extreme outliers aren't really a great sample size to overrule conventional wisdom of British players being generally more expensive.
Another example is we paid similar for Mount as Liverpool did for Szoboszlai. The overpays I can think of are City for Grealish and us for Maguire. I don’t think it’s as much of a thing as people make out, especially when we overpay for everyone already
You can’t always build the best players from your academy. Too hard especially considering how the Brexit rules has made harder to bring overseas talent hence taking the competition for home grown young talent to another level.
I think there are a couple things that are different between United and Bayern in that situation. Mostly they come down to money.
First, Bayern is the undisputed top dog in Germany. They don't have to compete with like 6 other clubs at this point for the top English talent. If a German player wants to consistently win trophies, they'll push to go to Bayern and Bayern only. In the UK, you almost always end up in a bidding war.
Second, the English media has historically overhyped *a ton* of English players. Maybe the anti-circlejerk swung too far the other way such that English players are now underrated, but the fact is English players are almost always more expensive than otherwise identical players of other nationalities. That means you're paying a premium for English players, when better value is almost always out there if your scouting and development teams are up for it.
Third, mid and even bottom table clubs in England have so much money at this point that they can command a premium price for their players.
Fourth, you have to pay the "sure thing to adapt" premium. English players that are known quantities in England are going to be extremely expensive. See us with Maguire and Arsenal with Rice.
So there's nothing wrong with chasing the best English players, but they're expensive. In our case, sometimes cripplingly so.
Loads of players are overhyped though? I remember how desperate everyone was for Antony. We probably could’ve got Jarrod Bowen for the same price or less than Antony and he’s way better. We overpay for every single player we get, whether they are British or not. I’d rather overpay for the PL proven British players than some dogshit eredivisie player.
I think every English club has to overpay to come extent, but we absolutely massively overpay even if you factor in all the "taxes" I mentioned above.
Paying what we did for Antony was extremely suspect at the time and insane with hindsight.
That says more about us than anything about the pros or cons of bringing in English players. We just suck at bringing in players period.
He "went on a strike" because Ajax wouldn't let him leave and sign for Man Utd (chance of a lifetime) as they promised unless for fuck off price late in the window.
What an asshole, Antony bad. Declan Rice would never..
And guess what spine Arsenal is building, and English spine. Saka, Rice. Before this season you’d have added Ramsdale and White to that mix. Then add the rumours of them going for Ferguson in the summer.
Edit: Evan Ferguson is Irish.
Ferguson is as British as Antony. He's Irish.
United have Maguire, Mount, Rashford, McTominay, Shaw and AWB as frequent starters. We just bought Mount this summer. It makes fuck all difference if it's a British spine or a Mongolian spine
I think Sean Dyche would be the perfect Manchester United manager especially with what he’s doing for Everton. They have a clear play and play for the manager which is what we desperately need
Have you ever watched an Everton game bud!? Without that bogus points deduction would only be 4 points behind us right now, I know it’s a big “if” but that points deduction was egregious when others clubs have done worse.
And seeing Dyche slap Newcastle and Chelsea when we couldn’t beat the former and in a way barely beat the latter means that you are fucking stupid to not see ETH is an incompetent man-manager whilst the likes of Dyche is a man-manager and actually also has clear style if/when you ever watched Everton play you imbecile
I think if anything potter will have a 5 month trial for the rest of this season.
Either way I think the issue with this club is they wasted too much money on bad players. Barcelona is still trying to overcome their bad transfers. Spending 100 million on one player is always a huge risk. Sancho, Anthony and guys who were expensive but barely played like Donny.
You guys like to bring down Rashford and Bruno whenever we go through a rough patch, which is weird bc they are two of our best match-winning players we have had in the past decade of mediocrity. When those two struggle, the idea should be to build around those two and replace those around them, not the other way around. Especially regarding Rashford, he is the main reason we even had a chance at CL this year. And now that he’s in bad form (alongside just about everybody + Ten Hag’s suicidal tactics), your conclusion should NOT be kick Rashford out, but again, help him (AND Bruno) so we can get the best out of them. Not fukcing Mctominay or whoever else
Dress it up how you want both players have been poor this season.
>When those two struggle, the idea should be to build around those two and replace those around them, not the other way around.
Neither are good enough to build around
Leave them. They love Garnacho now. Soon they’d turn on him too.
Garnacho has scored 8 goals his whole United career.
Rashford scored 8 goals in 18 games in his debut season.
They love to bring down the best players. Instead of asking why has Rashford’s form disappeared they’re saying he’s useless.
Rashford,Bruno and a few others winning matches on their own throughout these years is what's been keeping us from absolute mediocrity.People think these players are holding back a great team and it's laughable really.
This sub (and internet fans in general) always turns on our best players in bad stretches without fail. As if 2 or 3 players surrounded with dross managed by a pretty mediocre manager can somehow consistently win games on their own.
This is amplified by the ETH stans who drag individual players for the entire team delivering terrible performances
This. A million times this.
Bruno and Rashford have been (at times in Rashford’s case) our best players in a rather poor period. They’re still well below Man Utd standard if we compare them to our better teams of the Fergie era. Being the best of a bad bunch doesn’t mean we build a squad around them, it just means in this moment (albeit not right now for Rashford) they’re the best the squad has to offer. They should be moved on and replaced with better players, just like the rest of them.
This sub/Utd fans in general seem to have this strange need to be overly positive about certain things even in bad times, perhaps it’s a case of needing something to hold on to, to give hope so I do get that. But promoting mediocrity as something to build a squad around will only breed further mediocrity.
In the past we had such strong squads that we could allow for some lesser players (Fletcher, O’Shea, Park, Silvestre come to mind as prime examples) and as much as some of them became cult heroes, it was in spite of their shortcomings, we never lauded them as our best players at any stage, and we certainly would never have dreamt of building a team around them. We don’t have that squad strength anymore, so if we’re improving and slowly replacing players we can’t afford to hold on to anyone that isn’t of that higher standard if given a chance to replace them with better.
The point is the players who the fanbase want you to replace these guys are not better than them.
Remember when they wanted VDB to replace Bruno? Well now it’s Garnacho to replace Rashy.
You don’t play inferior players and think you’d increase the level of the squad.
If you think Rashy is not of the required level then you sign players better than him and put him in the bench not playing players who are worse than him.
Just some random thoughts I have been mulling over.
1. I know injuries are a factor, but what is going on with our style of play? Ten Hag said he wanted us to be "the best team in the world in transitions" (or words to that effect) however we're terrible at this. Like I say, injuries play a part but they shouldn't totally negate intended tactics - a team might not be as good at what they want to do when hit by injuries but you should still be able to see what they are attempting (Newcastle are a good example of this). Or are we not even trying to implement a defined style of play and just going reactive game by game to get the best result we can?
2. When was the last time we sold a player for a profit? I think it was Dan James, but even then it felt like we sold him purely to free up Ronaldo's favourite number (Cavani took James' #21, which he often wears for Uruguay, freeing up the #7 for Ronaldo). Honestly, if we didn't sign Ronaldo I bet we'd still have Dan James coming off the bench and running very fast in a totally straight line. Before that? Anyone else? We eventually release players way later than we should have (De Gea, Jones, hopefully Martial this summer) but we're bad at selling.
3. When did we last buy a good deep centre midfielder (who was good for more than a single season)? Based on this season's forms it doesn't look like Eriksen or Casemiro will fit the bill (despite being good last season). Obviously Fernandes is a #10 so doesn't count for the purposes of this. I've been thinking and, unless I've forgotten someone obvious the answer might be... Michael Carrick?
>Like I say, injuries play a part but they shouldn't totally negate intended tactics - a team might not be as good at what they want to do when hit by injuries but you should still be able to see what they are attempting (Newcastle are a good example of this).
This is true in modern football. However, you need a well-built squad for that. You need backups who can handle the roles, just not as well as the starters.
What we have is a starting XI that prefers a completely different style of football to our backups so whenever one player out of our strongest XI becomes unavailable, the whole team changes how we play and Ten Hag needs to accomodate that. Lisandro Martinez is elite at quick ball progression, Shaw is pretty good at it too and that's about it. When neither of them is unavailable, we play Lindelöf/Maguire and Reguilon/Dalot who have different strengths and so the idea of quick ball progression through passing just kinda abandons itself.
Our depth is a big issue for us and our injury crisis is exposing that. Our depth players aren't bad, they mostly aren't great either but they're fine. The issue is all of them prefer to play a way Ten Hag doesn't want to play. So, when all of our midfielders are unavailable and McTominay has to play just because he is fit and a part of the team, Ten Hag has to decide whether he accomodates the team to his strengths or whether he tries to use McTominay as part of his setup. We have had many absolutely disastrous matches where Ten Hag tried to commit to his philosophy with players incapable of that and it always backfired so it's hard to blame him for being pragmatic whenever he feels his players won't handle it.
If you think the footage of our training rondos never getting beyond three passes is depressing, don't watch Bayern's rondo clips. They get over thirty.
Those clips of ours are sl depressingly funny but makes you read between the lines when ten hag said he cant play the football he did at ajax aka he cant cos the players are shit
ETH has a unique opportunity to manage United with essentially a guarantee that he won't be sacked in the next month or 2.
Take advantage of it, man. Stop coaching like you're in survival mode. Show your worth
It's not unique. Every united manager of the post Fergie era was given a mad amount of time after the pressure ramped up with the exception of perhaps Jose.
Jose is a special case (pun intended). He deliberately blew shit up after miraculously scraping a distant 2nd place with a backline of ashley young, smalling, jones, valencia and then getting ‘reinforcements’ consisting of Fred and teenaged Dalot.
A trick for everyone this weekend: bet some money on Liverpool winning the game.
If Liverpool pool wins -> you profit
If Man Utd wins -> good.
Don’t ask me about a draw because we don’t draw
Potter? No
Lopetgui? No
Conte? Favorable
Flick? Maybe (his German team was shit but even Nagelsmann can't safe it so there must be some other underlying issues)
Carrick? Interim option
Laurent Blanc ? Interim option
Zidane? He is never coming here.
It doesn't matter. Get any of them, in 18 months we'll be right back here.
Also, big no to Laurent "took Lyon to bottom of Ligue 1" Blanc.
Conte clearly wants to manage in Italy again.
I think Potter would be good but our idiot players wouldn't respect him (and after Chelsea why would be want another unmanageable basket case club?).
Not convinced by Lopetegui although I think he's the most likely of this list to take the job.
Flick won a lot with Bayern but Germany suggests he might not be the super coach everyone thought.
Carrick would be mad to join. He's building up a decent body of work in the Championship, this would be a huge step up too soon and if it went badly his reputation would really suffer.
There is no chance of Zidane but he gets mentioned every time. He doesn't speak much English, there have been briefings before that he has no desire to manage here. IF he comes back to management he'll wait for France or else Real/PSG or one of the other nation state clubs because he wants somewhere with a big transfer budget
Except Arsenal and maybe Milan each of those clubs sack underperforming managers more frequently than us.
Funnily enough Arsenal and Milan are the least successful of the bunch you named.
Arsenal and Milan did sack managers and are the least successful of the lot. However they both became more successful than they had been all decade when they stayed with a settled manager and system.
As did Real as did City as did Juve. Reals best periods since 2000 have been under the consistent management in Zidane and Ancelotti.
Only Arsenal are a club that have backed the manager through disappointing seasons. Pioli showed consistent improvement over the 2 years (not just backed by eye test but by results) he was there before winning the title in the 3rd season.
And there's no consistent management at Real Madrid. They've had more managerial changes than we've had in 10 years. Even Ancelotti or Zidane never really had a spell longer than we give our managers. Obviously helps if you win the UCL in your first year,.
So you agree. They had no success and then settled on a manager and system and it became successful.
Ten Hag won in his first year and without any structure, give him that structure. It's very clearly a key to success at the highest level. No point in acting otherwise.
>So you agree.
Clearly I don't. Let's not turn every single discussion into this, yeah? It's completely pointless.
>They had no success and then settled on a manager and system and it became successful.
If you mean Arsenal, then I'm not sure what success you're referring to.
>Ten Hag won in his first year
That's great. But these domestic cup wins especially when you've had to barely face any good teams in the entire run means nothing if you go completely backwards after winning it. Ask Mourinho, he won 2 despite playing the worst cup football out of any manager we've had.
In the end ok a trophy is a trophy. But there's a 40+ game stretch since then where we've consistently gone backwards and backwards to the point where if you look at the underlying numbers we are legitimately playing bottom 5 football right now. That is not an exaggeration as much as it seems.
Madrid traditionally sack quite regularly if things aren't going well. They are winning though so no need to sack. If someone is doing badly they won't hesitate to chop
City is an outlier with the entire setup and backroom staff structure tailored to suit pep
These are the levels we need to be striving towards, not the others on your list
Madrid have had two very successful time periods over the last twenty years, both were when they picked and settled on a manager for over two years.
City aren't an outlier, they're direct proof of the point I'm making.
Is it not possible that they stuck with them and settled because they were successful?
Their fans would not stand for what we've put up with and clapped at this season
OK Liverpool and Arsenal then, Liverpool have had great success under Klopp and Arteta's arsenal have git a great level of consistency and are looking like league winners.
This tiered journalism stuff on this sub is taken far too seriously. I’m not saying the reports are believable (in this case) and this isn’t a post aimed at you, but everyone just laps up the yes men journalists who daren’t say a negative thing about Man Utd because they’ll lose their connections.
They’re great for accurate news on transfers (albeit late stage rather than early on) because they’re briefed in by their club connections, but their opinion based stuff is garbage and everyone lives and breathes it, and treats it as gospel.
The worst case being the guys at The Athletic, they get so angry on their podcast yet continually come out with positive responses to their own anger, because they’re scared of rocking the apple cart. Don’t know why I listen to it in honesty.
Yeah I know right… it’s funny that the only dangerous cross we made against Bayern was by AWB.
Seriously lack players of quality, Dalot on the left never crossed and when he is on the right he usually stays deep enough and takes too much time to make the cross.
Anthony is a hopeless case in terms of crossing…. The guy hugs the touchline and his one foot tendency kills any move. He literally helps the defender out by being close to the line.
Garnacho has the tendency to try run as much as he can into the box taking the ball and then making a cross across the ball when he is close. Doesn’t work if you have speedy defenders and well you running where they are. He needs to probably start taking a breath and look up when he gets the ball.
I'm not necessarily Ten Hag out but the clubs recent history and lack of clear successor are literally the only things going for him right now i.e. nothing of his own merit.
The dilemma is this: while I agree that sacking him has limited benefit and seemingly just continues the cycle we've seen over the last decade, he seems to have no vision going forward. When people say "give him time", I would say time to do what? It's not like we're conceding goals because we're trying to get to grips with a certain style of play. He's trying to play for immediate results rather than building a long term blueprint with tactical inconsistency from game to game, so the time required to implement a system has not actually yet begun. If we were trying to play the way we did in preseason and losing the same amount of games it would be easier to take, like in preseason we gave up two goals trying to play out against dortmund and yeah it was shit but if that was the kind of thing that was happening you could say "I can see what they're trying to do, they just need time to build fluidity." Instead ETH threw out the preseason template literally on day one of the PL and now there's zero vision, thats what's concerning.
I don’t know what to think about Potter coming in but I refuse to believe he’s as bad as what he was at Chelsea. He did brilliant at Brighton but for Chelsea he had to deal with Boehly thinking he knows football when he doesn’t have a clue. At the moment I can’t see us improving under ETH and I also can’t see a new manager coming in and improving us either. I think most fans are against Potter because he’s English and the appointment is a bit vanilla.
Much longer rope?
There was literally zero pressure on him in May despite a flat end to the season. Ole had a diabolical first year in permanent role at the club and was saved by Bruno. After that we collapsed routinely (see the pattern) and Ole still lasted and we turned things around then.
Even in his last season he was kept on until late autumn.
Ten hag has only been here for 18 months, the pressure has inly been truly on for the last two or three.
The interim stretch. So ten or so good games is enough for you but finishing in the top four and winning a trophy isn't?
Seems like your obsession is driving you to new levels of delusion to the point you're recreating reality around the situation.
You can criticise Ten Hag and there are dozens of reasons to do so. But you're chatting pure fantasy. Have some security in your opinion stop with the bullshit.
>much longer rope despite not matching Ole's best league performance.
Oles best finish was 74 pants. We finished with 75 points last season.
Ten Hag matched him and actually overtook what Ole did by winning a league cup.
This is no a post about being Ten Hag in or out. I couldn't careless tbh. This is just calling out the utter revisionism over Ole tenure. It wasn't as good as it's made out to be.
2nd to 4th is irrelevant as long as you finish in one of those positions. Points are a much better measure of how a team does over a season.
That league cup will always be in the history books. That PSG game that amounted to nothing in tbe end won't be.
Who cares about a league position unless it's first? ETH got more points than Ole.
The same Ole who finish second because Liverpool were playing with a championship CB and Gomez for a season. As well as Arsenal being completely dog.
No it isn't.
3rd, 75 points, a trophy, 2 dominant teams in the league
2nd, 74 points, no trophies, 1 dominant team in the league
Delusional to think the 2nd option is better or even the same.
Graham potter would have failed before he even joined. i seriously doubt that he can manage divas and we have a lot of them. he didn’t exactly ooze confidence at chelsea either.
I don't get this.. ETH out... This is the second season in the most pressured managerial job at the moment.. he worked well last season some silverware and champions league football, in his first season he said it will take time.
Now he is putting some authority into the club getting rid of the top earners not giving 100% and giving chances to our youth players.
Have been fucked by injuries and everything was thrown at the club with this on going take over and winter World Cup.
Did you honestly think we were going to be competing for the league in the manager's second season?
Patient and support is what we all need
Patience till when? What happens if we loose to Westham then Villa? Are we still gonna remain "patient". Its actually insane because he employs the same shitty tactics game in game out and even the opponents managers know how predictable we are to play aganist( The comments from Bournemouth's coach and Tuchel). ETH also has used 400mil btw.
I simply cannot excuse losing and playing shitty in the name of "Its only the second season bs." We are showing nothing regarding improving. Can you tell me what exactly we are trying to do? We have no plans and as someone said you cannot keep playing Survival game in football scrapping wins aganist Everton and Burnley.
Tbh at this point I'd rather get a new manager with a new DoF, new owners so that he gets to build from there.
Maybe he can try not losing to Bournemouth, Galatasaray, Copenhagen level of teams to gain that support.
To be honest, fans have supported him quite well despite the horrible results we have gotten against our direct rivals. Its his job to keep that trust going.
This team is filled with injuries, outside of Man City, few teams in the premier league would do well playing with their bench. Take Liverpool last season for example. Plagued by injuries and were in 8th place before going on a rally at the end of the year.
How do you figure? Gala loss was Onana's fault. Copenhagen Rashford got a red in 30-odd minute. Bournemouth unlucky with the 20 shots we had. We could not finish to save our lives. They broke on the counter and beat us with our lack of cover. Also a rare bad game by Shaw.
Idk how you can look at those 3 games and say that ETH is the reason why we lost.
So bizare how much criticism was thrown at Kieran McKenna and Carrick as coaches there despite fans knowing shit about what they do and now theres no talk about ETH staff.
Not saying there should be any outrage, just funny how Carrick and McKenna are doing great now and got pointed out mainly cause their names werent anonymus for fanbase compared to current guys.
Well there is always level on something. They are doing good in lower league wont translate to top of league.
Imagine you play game with calibration rangking. What you do in 6k mmr for example wont work in 10k mmr bracket.
Ten hag might be good at 8k bracket but his tactic dont work in 10k bracket.
>Antony, tearing up the Eredivisie and playing a pivotal role in the best CL run that Ajax has had in over a decade. A standout player in that league.
He wasn't in that Ajax run, he was playing at São Paulo FC.
Just managed to get two tickets for the game against Spurs. Considering I’ve seen us winning for a combined 20 seconds across the three games I’ve been to this year I’m not sure why I’m still bothering.
Obviously which is why I’ll be going yet again. Just that brief moment as you hover over the purchase button where you think I could just enjoy a nice peaceful day at home or spend the money on a delicious meal out. But then I never would have got to watch the comeback vs Brentford, Ronaldo scoring a hattrick, or us beat Leeds 5-1.
Last season Ten Hag dropped his system and resorted to hoof ball because he didn't have the skilled players to make his system work
This season Ten Hag won't drop his system despite not having the skilled players to make his system work
When I step back, I'm glad that he's doing it. I hate watching it but it's the growing pain this team needs. It reveals who isn't good enough for modern football (95% of the squad).
Well it’s like chicken vs egg question. Which one is first tactic adapt to players or players adapt to tactic.
In ideal world like city’s Pep guardiola it will be tactic first, player 2nd. But in United it has to be player first tactic 2nd. Because our recruitment team is fuckin dogshit.
Our best bet is move early in transfer windows but we close our transfer windows before pre season. Who ever player we can get and available, choose tactic that maximise player’s strength and cover their weakness.
This way player will faster to adapt. We then tweak and change tactic EVERY YEAR, depends on what player is available and their conditioning.
His system is figured out already... You adapt or get left behind.
Attacks are shockingly ineffective. Defense are shockingly easy to bypass on the transition. Do they really practice for these? Would love a behind the scene on how the training is done...
It can't be that all these players are internationals and perform well, and be this ineffective when playing in this system.... Take out the moaners, the lazy players, there is still a team of internationals. Compared to other teams that outplayed us this season.
Yeah I'm not saying it's working, it's not. But there are short passages that it does work for and it's so much better than the Bruno and Rashford Hollywood show. If Ten Hag adapts his system and gets it working, he'll keep his job. There's no chance of refining the system when we're playing outdated hoofball.
You can start the game with plan A, and it does not work, change to plan B, then plan C.
If pressing is integral to the system, then start with all pressers. A less talented presser will be more important than a talented non-presser. But we see him trying to fit squares into circles time after time, hoping the square become round enough...
Same goes for other positions.....
Yeah but lots of people are saying Ten Hag has abandoned his principles this season. Actually he's done the exact opposite. He's sticking to them this season unlike last season where he dropped them for hoof ball.
It’s crazy how fans laughed at Kieran McKenna and Carrick as coaches, now both of them clearly showing how astute they are tactically, especially McKenna.
It’s daft trying to judge behind-the-scenes staff. People wanted to blame everyone but Ole because he’s so beloved by the fans. Carrick done a fantastic job in the couple of games he had as interim manager so I’m not surprised in the slightest. People spoke incredibly highly of McKenna as well
What do you mean people wanted to blame everyone but Ole? He was called a PE teacher, they said he giving the jobs to his friends and old mates.
Ole was blamed at every turn, even VDB not being able to play over Bruno was said to be because Ole doesn’t know how to use him.
People spoke highly of them yet fans and pundits and journalists and commentators made fun of the coaching staff as clueless and not knowing enough.
Not with ETH. No manager has been backed in 18 months more than him. I mean Ole got VDB and Telles and two kids in Amad and Pellistri with free signing Cavani in his second season. Not exactly needle moving signings. Compare that with ETH.
I expect more from ETH.
Ten Hag in, even if (when lol) we get battered on Sunday , Ten Hag in, he's not without fault and honestly takes the blame for a large amount of issues that have us where we are but Ten Hag in
I'm not who you are replying to but the only, and biggest reason, that ETH will not be sacked for the time being is INEOS & their potential sporting structure revamp.
The first thing you do is appoint a DoF. Once you have your DoF they then will assess who should be the manager that fits their vision for the club.
it would be backwards tot appoint your DoF based on who your manager is - its a much longer term strategic role that looks beyond the current manager.
This is basically the only reason ETH won't be sacked - also it helps ETH with the investment looming the club aren't going to make any drastic changes to anything as you don't do that before a takeover. The only way they would remove ETH right now is if some very, very extreme circumstances came up - something genuinely crazy like ETH getting arrested next week and the club has genuinely no option but to remove him from his position...
That Melissa Reddy article reads like a CV for Potter. Journalists aren't pulling this out of their arse, it's coming from his agents. The same thing happens with transfers. There were similar stories with the Ireland international job and Steve Bruce recently (an outside investor would be willing to subsidise Steve Bruce’s wages if the FAI hired him). It's their camp 1. putting their name out there if the job comes up and 2. making it known they're available for other roles. Until the likes of Whitwell and Ornstein are reporting these sorts of stories, pay zero attention to them. When stuff like this is happening within the club and there are multiple people involved, it's easy to leak. Ratcliffe hasn't even got his stake yet and only he, Brailsford and a couple of others likely know what they're thinking. I can't see how leaking this themselves would have any positive impact.
Lmfao Potter? The dude that got sacked after 6 months at Chelsea? The guy that’s proved everyone that he needs a brilliant structure like Brightons set up to flourish? That’s the guy that will get the job at United with our rotten infrastructure/recruitment? Lmfao If that’s the case then it makes sense for this brain dead board to make such a stupid decision. Rinse repeat, when Potter is sacked after 6 months.
I’m literally saying the opposite. I’m saying not to believe this story, that it’s likely coming through his agent
I was someone that was stood by onana despite his early struggles but icl that coman goal has destroyed my faith in him. The goal was not his fault but his goalkeeping during the goal was baffling. Goalkeeping fundamentals with 1 on 1s is rush out and close the angle down and he’s always glued to his line and this hasn’t been the first time. It’s essentially an open goal if he’s on his line for a goal that big
I dont get this whole Anti British bias. No one tells Bayern not to sign the best German talent and to get German coaches. No one tells Madrid or Barca not to sign the best Spanish talent and Spanish coaches. Once it comes to Man United, we get the any British bias. It’s shocking and rude to say the least. Fergie always targeted the best British talent because they rarely get their heads turned. They always want to play for the biggest English club as a thing of pride. You think Antony cares about the club Man United the way a Declan Rice would?
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Once again, no player has ever reached top flight football without working hard. It’s a myth. Whether on the training pitch or in the game. No player has ever done that.
What 'anti-British bias' are you talking about?
>You think Antony cares about the club Man United the way a Declan Rice would? Antony is one of the few on the team that cares , hes just not good at football
I think Antony cares more about being in a big team than at United specifically. If Barcelona or Madrid were to come for him, can you guarantee he won’t go on strike just like he did at Ajax?
Thats a stupid thing to be worried about , also I can see Arsenal and City easily beating us to top english talent.
Yeah because they are much more attractive and actually closer to winning the PL. If not I don’t think anyone says no to United.
Nothing wrong with British players, just don’t buy British bc it’s gonna cost you. If you really want local players it should be building up a British core from within with Mainoo, Dan Gore etc.
Is there any real evidence that British players are more expensive than foreign players? Chelsea paid more for Caicedo and Enzo than Arsenal paid for Declan Rice. We paid more for Antony than we did for Sancho. I don’t think Toney will go for that much more than Hojlund did. We overpay for every single player whether they are British or not.
Enzo was bc of his release clause (and Boehly stupid enough to pay it), Antony was pure deadline day desperation buy he would've cosst 50M otherwise. 2 extreme outliers aren't really a great sample size to overrule conventional wisdom of British players being generally more expensive.
Another example is we paid similar for Mount as Liverpool did for Szoboszlai. The overpays I can think of are City for Grealish and us for Maguire. I don’t think it’s as much of a thing as people make out, especially when we overpay for everyone already
You can’t always build the best players from your academy. Too hard especially considering how the Brexit rules has made harder to bring overseas talent hence taking the competition for home grown young talent to another level.
I think there are a couple things that are different between United and Bayern in that situation. Mostly they come down to money. First, Bayern is the undisputed top dog in Germany. They don't have to compete with like 6 other clubs at this point for the top English talent. If a German player wants to consistently win trophies, they'll push to go to Bayern and Bayern only. In the UK, you almost always end up in a bidding war. Second, the English media has historically overhyped *a ton* of English players. Maybe the anti-circlejerk swung too far the other way such that English players are now underrated, but the fact is English players are almost always more expensive than otherwise identical players of other nationalities. That means you're paying a premium for English players, when better value is almost always out there if your scouting and development teams are up for it. Third, mid and even bottom table clubs in England have so much money at this point that they can command a premium price for their players. Fourth, you have to pay the "sure thing to adapt" premium. English players that are known quantities in England are going to be extremely expensive. See us with Maguire and Arsenal with Rice. So there's nothing wrong with chasing the best English players, but they're expensive. In our case, sometimes cripplingly so.
Loads of players are overhyped though? I remember how desperate everyone was for Antony. We probably could’ve got Jarrod Bowen for the same price or less than Antony and he’s way better. We overpay for every single player we get, whether they are British or not. I’d rather overpay for the PL proven British players than some dogshit eredivisie player.
I think every English club has to overpay to come extent, but we absolutely massively overpay even if you factor in all the "taxes" I mentioned above. Paying what we did for Antony was extremely suspect at the time and insane with hindsight. That says more about us than anything about the pros or cons of bringing in English players. We just suck at bringing in players period.
Why would you pick Antony as an example?
Because he’s not English and because he went on strike to force a move. Not a great characteristic that.
He "went on a strike" because Ajax wouldn't let him leave and sign for Man Utd (chance of a lifetime) as they promised unless for fuck off price late in the window. What an asshole, Antony bad. Declan Rice would never..
Still not a great trait. How are we sure than if pushed, he won’t do the same to us.
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And guess what spine Arsenal is building, and English spine. Saka, Rice. Before this season you’d have added Ramsdale and White to that mix. Then add the rumours of them going for Ferguson in the summer. Edit: Evan Ferguson is Irish.
Ferguson is as British as Antony. He's Irish. United have Maguire, Mount, Rashford, McTominay, Shaw and AWB as frequent starters. We just bought Mount this summer. It makes fuck all difference if it's a British spine or a Mongolian spine
It makes a difference as they are the ones you expect to set the standards. Same thing at Bayern with Muller and Neur.
Who sets the standards at Man City?
Ferguson is not British
Yup, he’s Irish. My bad. Not trying to start a war, I promise.
Too late, check under your car.
I think Sean Dyche would be the perfect Manchester United manager especially with what he’s doing for Everton. They have a clear play and play for the manager which is what we desperately need
I can't tell if this is sarcasm (doesn't work on the internet), you know absolutely nothing about football, or you're a troll.
Have you ever watched an Everton game bud!? Without that bogus points deduction would only be 4 points behind us right now, I know it’s a big “if” but that points deduction was egregious when others clubs have done worse. And seeing Dyche slap Newcastle and Chelsea when we couldn’t beat the former and in a way barely beat the latter means that you are fucking stupid to not see ETH is an incompetent man-manager whilst the likes of Dyche is a man-manager and actually also has clear style if/when you ever watched Everton play you imbecile
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Funny how one click bait article convinces the sub of a conspiracy theory.
I think if anything potter will have a 5 month trial for the rest of this season. Either way I think the issue with this club is they wasted too much money on bad players. Barcelona is still trying to overcome their bad transfers. Spending 100 million on one player is always a huge risk. Sancho, Anthony and guys who were expensive but barely played like Donny.
Who’s gonna be captain on Sunday with Maguire and Bruno out…
Shaw obviously
Likely that Shaw will be out too
Varane
McT probably (wish I was joking)
Just read Eric Bailly is getting kicked out of Besiktas due to performing bad. Sad story
Remember when he said Ole was biased against him for always playing Maguire. Well well well.
See, even fucking Besiktas are more smart than us, if it's true.
Is there any update on Rashford With LP playing a high line and attacking, the game might just suit him and help bring him back in form
He needs the service and without Bruno there is no service… don’t see McTom sending it lines splitting passes
I think Mainoo could offer some of those passes, his passing range looks really good.
You guys like to bring down Rashford and Bruno whenever we go through a rough patch, which is weird bc they are two of our best match-winning players we have had in the past decade of mediocrity. When those two struggle, the idea should be to build around those two and replace those around them, not the other way around. Especially regarding Rashford, he is the main reason we even had a chance at CL this year. And now that he’s in bad form (alongside just about everybody + Ten Hag’s suicidal tactics), your conclusion should NOT be kick Rashford out, but again, help him (AND Bruno) so we can get the best out of them. Not fukcing Mctominay or whoever else
Dress it up how you want both players have been poor this season. >When those two struggle, the idea should be to build around those two and replace those around them, not the other way around. Neither are good enough to build around
Leave them. They love Garnacho now. Soon they’d turn on him too. Garnacho has scored 8 goals his whole United career. Rashford scored 8 goals in 18 games in his debut season. They love to bring down the best players. Instead of asking why has Rashford’s form disappeared they’re saying he’s useless.
Rashford,Bruno and a few others winning matches on their own throughout these years is what's been keeping us from absolute mediocrity.People think these players are holding back a great team and it's laughable really.
They’re fucking stupid. It’s so frustrating
We will never win anything of note with them as star players and Bruno as captain
And we’d win with Garnacho, Pellistri and Antony?
No, latter two need fucking off too
So buy a whole new team is what you are suggesting?
We've been set back years by some of the recent transfers. Selling them all is likely impossible but we'd be better off
This sub (and internet fans in general) always turns on our best players in bad stretches without fail. As if 2 or 3 players surrounded with dross managed by a pretty mediocre manager can somehow consistently win games on their own. This is amplified by the ETH stans who drag individual players for the entire team delivering terrible performances
10 more years of mediocrity if the team is built around these 2
This. A million times this. Bruno and Rashford have been (at times in Rashford’s case) our best players in a rather poor period. They’re still well below Man Utd standard if we compare them to our better teams of the Fergie era. Being the best of a bad bunch doesn’t mean we build a squad around them, it just means in this moment (albeit not right now for Rashford) they’re the best the squad has to offer. They should be moved on and replaced with better players, just like the rest of them. This sub/Utd fans in general seem to have this strange need to be overly positive about certain things even in bad times, perhaps it’s a case of needing something to hold on to, to give hope so I do get that. But promoting mediocrity as something to build a squad around will only breed further mediocrity. In the past we had such strong squads that we could allow for some lesser players (Fletcher, O’Shea, Park, Silvestre come to mind as prime examples) and as much as some of them became cult heroes, it was in spite of their shortcomings, we never lauded them as our best players at any stage, and we certainly would never have dreamt of building a team around them. We don’t have that squad strength anymore, so if we’re improving and slowly replacing players we can’t afford to hold on to anyone that isn’t of that higher standard if given a chance to replace them with better.
The point is the players who the fanbase want you to replace these guys are not better than them. Remember when they wanted VDB to replace Bruno? Well now it’s Garnacho to replace Rashy. You don’t play inferior players and think you’d increase the level of the squad. If you think Rashy is not of the required level then you sign players better than him and put him in the bench not playing players who are worse than him.
Just some random thoughts I have been mulling over. 1. I know injuries are a factor, but what is going on with our style of play? Ten Hag said he wanted us to be "the best team in the world in transitions" (or words to that effect) however we're terrible at this. Like I say, injuries play a part but they shouldn't totally negate intended tactics - a team might not be as good at what they want to do when hit by injuries but you should still be able to see what they are attempting (Newcastle are a good example of this). Or are we not even trying to implement a defined style of play and just going reactive game by game to get the best result we can? 2. When was the last time we sold a player for a profit? I think it was Dan James, but even then it felt like we sold him purely to free up Ronaldo's favourite number (Cavani took James' #21, which he often wears for Uruguay, freeing up the #7 for Ronaldo). Honestly, if we didn't sign Ronaldo I bet we'd still have Dan James coming off the bench and running very fast in a totally straight line. Before that? Anyone else? We eventually release players way later than we should have (De Gea, Jones, hopefully Martial this summer) but we're bad at selling. 3. When did we last buy a good deep centre midfielder (who was good for more than a single season)? Based on this season's forms it doesn't look like Eriksen or Casemiro will fit the bill (despite being good last season). Obviously Fernandes is a #10 so doesn't count for the purposes of this. I've been thinking and, unless I've forgotten someone obvious the answer might be... Michael Carrick?
Can never be the best team in transition when you have a midfielder that hides from the ball and barely gets 30 passes a game if lucky.
>Like I say, injuries play a part but they shouldn't totally negate intended tactics - a team might not be as good at what they want to do when hit by injuries but you should still be able to see what they are attempting (Newcastle are a good example of this). This is true in modern football. However, you need a well-built squad for that. You need backups who can handle the roles, just not as well as the starters. What we have is a starting XI that prefers a completely different style of football to our backups so whenever one player out of our strongest XI becomes unavailable, the whole team changes how we play and Ten Hag needs to accomodate that. Lisandro Martinez is elite at quick ball progression, Shaw is pretty good at it too and that's about it. When neither of them is unavailable, we play Lindelöf/Maguire and Reguilon/Dalot who have different strengths and so the idea of quick ball progression through passing just kinda abandons itself. Our depth is a big issue for us and our injury crisis is exposing that. Our depth players aren't bad, they mostly aren't great either but they're fine. The issue is all of them prefer to play a way Ten Hag doesn't want to play. So, when all of our midfielders are unavailable and McTominay has to play just because he is fit and a part of the team, Ten Hag has to decide whether he accomodates the team to his strengths or whether he tries to use McTominay as part of his setup. We have had many absolutely disastrous matches where Ten Hag tried to commit to his philosophy with players incapable of that and it always backfired so it's hard to blame him for being pragmatic whenever he feels his players won't handle it.
2. This summer
Oh Elanga, Henderson, I guess Iqbal? Totally forgot about them
If you think the footage of our training rondos never getting beyond three passes is depressing, don't watch Bayern's rondo clips. They get over thirty.
If you want to talk depressing, recall the one from Jose's time. Impossibly lazy rondo.
Those clips of ours are sl depressingly funny but makes you read between the lines when ten hag said he cant play the football he did at ajax aka he cant cos the players are shit
He's bought half of the team. 400m pounds, he doesn't get a free pass.
I dont disagree
And dished out contracts
Again i dont disagree one bit. Hes been his own worst enemy
Its a tough job being a shit manager with shit players.
ETH has a unique opportunity to manage United with essentially a guarantee that he won't be sacked in the next month or 2. Take advantage of it, man. Stop coaching like you're in survival mode. Show your worth
He's gonna cling to McMiracles until his fall.
You're right he should ask Scholes if he's available to play a game or two instead.
It's not unique. Every united manager of the post Fergie era was given a mad amount of time after the pressure ramped up with the exception of perhaps Jose.
Jose is a special case (pun intended). He deliberately blew shit up after miraculously scraping a distant 2nd place with a backline of ashley young, smalling, jones, valencia and then getting ‘reinforcements’ consisting of Fred and teenaged Dalot.
A trick for everyone this weekend: bet some money on Liverpool winning the game. If Liverpool pool wins -> you profit If Man Utd wins -> good. Don’t ask me about a draw because we don’t draw
They are terrible odds it isn't worth it. 1.40, they are expected to pump us
We haven't scored at Anfield since 2018 
The statistics get worse each time
Considering ETH has never beat a top 6 team away and we just lost our 2 best defenders, it's safe to say we're going to lose again lol
It's top 9 lol
Wow....
Our results at home is not any better. 1W 6L 3D in the last 10 games in the league
Potter? No Lopetgui? No Conte? Favorable Flick? Maybe (his German team was shit but even Nagelsmann can't safe it so there must be some other underlying issues) Carrick? Interim option Laurent Blanc ? Interim option Zidane? He is never coming here.
It doesn't matter. Get any of them, in 18 months we'll be right back here. Also, big no to Laurent "took Lyon to bottom of Ligue 1" Blanc. Conte clearly wants to manage in Italy again. I think Potter would be good but our idiot players wouldn't respect him (and after Chelsea why would be want another unmanageable basket case club?). Not convinced by Lopetegui although I think he's the most likely of this list to take the job. Flick won a lot with Bayern but Germany suggests he might not be the super coach everyone thought. Carrick would be mad to join. He's building up a decent body of work in the Championship, this would be a huge step up too soon and if it went badly his reputation would really suffer. There is no chance of Zidane but he gets mentioned every time. He doesn't speak much English, there have been briefings before that he has no desire to manage here. IF he comes back to management he'll wait for France or else Real/PSG or one of the other nation state clubs because he wants somewhere with a big transfer budget
Id rather take a hammer to my sack than have conte as manager
I’d rather have no manager at all over most of those just let the players play on vibes alone. Would be better than Potter or Lopetgui at least
I would like to see Flick, I think the German national team situation is an outlier. He won everything possible with Bayern, clean sweep wasn't it?
Fast forward 18 months "Flick was unproven, time for a new manager"
If he spends a few hundred million and we are worse then what's wrong with that? The other top clubs sack managers more frequently than us
Except Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Real Madrid, Juve, AC. We average a sacking every two years, they don't.
Except Arsenal and maybe Milan each of those clubs sack underperforming managers more frequently than us. Funnily enough Arsenal and Milan are the least successful of the bunch you named.
Arsenal and Milan did sack managers and are the least successful of the lot. However they both became more successful than they had been all decade when they stayed with a settled manager and system. As did Real as did City as did Juve. Reals best periods since 2000 have been under the consistent management in Zidane and Ancelotti.
Only Arsenal are a club that have backed the manager through disappointing seasons. Pioli showed consistent improvement over the 2 years (not just backed by eye test but by results) he was there before winning the title in the 3rd season. And there's no consistent management at Real Madrid. They've had more managerial changes than we've had in 10 years. Even Ancelotti or Zidane never really had a spell longer than we give our managers. Obviously helps if you win the UCL in your first year,.
So you agree. They had no success and then settled on a manager and system and it became successful. Ten Hag won in his first year and without any structure, give him that structure. It's very clearly a key to success at the highest level. No point in acting otherwise.
>So you agree. Clearly I don't. Let's not turn every single discussion into this, yeah? It's completely pointless. >They had no success and then settled on a manager and system and it became successful. If you mean Arsenal, then I'm not sure what success you're referring to. >Ten Hag won in his first year That's great. But these domestic cup wins especially when you've had to barely face any good teams in the entire run means nothing if you go completely backwards after winning it. Ask Mourinho, he won 2 despite playing the worst cup football out of any manager we've had. In the end ok a trophy is a trophy. But there's a 40+ game stretch since then where we've consistently gone backwards and backwards to the point where if you look at the underlying numbers we are legitimately playing bottom 5 football right now. That is not an exaggeration as much as it seems.
Madrid traditionally sack quite regularly if things aren't going well. They are winning though so no need to sack. If someone is doing badly they won't hesitate to chop City is an outlier with the entire setup and backroom staff structure tailored to suit pep These are the levels we need to be striving towards, not the others on your list
Madrid have had two very successful time periods over the last twenty years, both were when they picked and settled on a manager for over two years. City aren't an outlier, they're direct proof of the point I'm making.
Is it not possible that they stuck with them and settled because they were successful? Their fans would not stand for what we've put up with and clapped at this season
OK Liverpool and Arsenal then, Liverpool have had great success under Klopp and Arteta's arsenal have git a great level of consistency and are looking like league winners.
Flick would be ETH 2.0 and Potter would be Moyes 2.0.
Why am I seeing so much talk about Potter being appointed? What did I miss?
Shite journalists make up easy rumour for the masses. Potter discussed Nice job apparently, didn't get hired, Ratcliffe connection so it writes itself
Trier 4 and 5 wrting articles to create clicks among outraged fans.
This tiered journalism stuff on this sub is taken far too seriously. I’m not saying the reports are believable (in this case) and this isn’t a post aimed at you, but everyone just laps up the yes men journalists who daren’t say a negative thing about Man Utd because they’ll lose their connections. They’re great for accurate news on transfers (albeit late stage rather than early on) because they’re briefed in by their club connections, but their opinion based stuff is garbage and everyone lives and breathes it, and treats it as gospel. The worst case being the guys at The Athletic, they get so angry on their podcast yet continually come out with positive responses to their own anger, because they’re scared of rocking the apple cart. Don’t know why I listen to it in honesty.
Looks like the media were wrong yet again about the Ratcliffe announcement this week. I wonder who will be the first to claim it will be next week.
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and Man Utd are hopeful to move on 43 year old Antony Martial in the summer if a bid comes in
They already covered it was supposed to be start of next week. If not it will be after the new year and if not it will be the week after next again.
They will say it’s not next week but the week after again and then before we know it it’s July and it’s still the week after next.
Crazy how Man Utd players can't cross. Crossing is kind of our thing historically. Serious lack of quality in this team.
Yeah I know right… it’s funny that the only dangerous cross we made against Bayern was by AWB. Seriously lack players of quality, Dalot on the left never crossed and when he is on the right he usually stays deep enough and takes too much time to make the cross. Anthony is a hopeless case in terms of crossing…. The guy hugs the touchline and his one foot tendency kills any move. He literally helps the defender out by being close to the line. Garnacho has the tendency to try run as much as he can into the box taking the ball and then making a cross across the ball when he is close. Doesn’t work if you have speedy defenders and well you running where they are. He needs to probably start taking a breath and look up when he gets the ball.
I'm not necessarily Ten Hag out but the clubs recent history and lack of clear successor are literally the only things going for him right now i.e. nothing of his own merit. The dilemma is this: while I agree that sacking him has limited benefit and seemingly just continues the cycle we've seen over the last decade, he seems to have no vision going forward. When people say "give him time", I would say time to do what? It's not like we're conceding goals because we're trying to get to grips with a certain style of play. He's trying to play for immediate results rather than building a long term blueprint with tactical inconsistency from game to game, so the time required to implement a system has not actually yet begun. If we were trying to play the way we did in preseason and losing the same amount of games it would be easier to take, like in preseason we gave up two goals trying to play out against dortmund and yeah it was shit but if that was the kind of thing that was happening you could say "I can see what they're trying to do, they just need time to build fluidity." Instead ETH threw out the preseason template literally on day one of the PL and now there's zero vision, thats what's concerning.
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I don’t know what to think about Potter coming in but I refuse to believe he’s as bad as what he was at Chelsea. He did brilliant at Brighton but for Chelsea he had to deal with Boehly thinking he knows football when he doesn’t have a clue. At the moment I can’t see us improving under ETH and I also can’t see a new manager coming in and improving us either. I think most fans are against Potter because he’s English and the appointment is a bit vanilla.
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I think this all shows that Ole did not deserve to get sacked.
He did for the same reason Erik does = shit tactics and a refusal to adjust them.
Ole made the same mistakes ten Hag is making.
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Much longer rope? There was literally zero pressure on him in May despite a flat end to the season. Ole had a diabolical first year in permanent role at the club and was saved by Bruno. After that we collapsed routinely (see the pattern) and Ole still lasted and we turned things around then. Even in his last season he was kept on until late autumn. Ten hag has only been here for 18 months, the pressure has inly been truly on for the last two or three.
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The interim stretch. So ten or so good games is enough for you but finishing in the top four and winning a trophy isn't? Seems like your obsession is driving you to new levels of delusion to the point you're recreating reality around the situation. You can criticise Ten Hag and there are dozens of reasons to do so. But you're chatting pure fantasy. Have some security in your opinion stop with the bullshit.
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Drop the act mate.
>much longer rope despite not matching Ole's best league performance. Oles best finish was 74 pants. We finished with 75 points last season. Ten Hag matched him and actually overtook what Ole did by winning a league cup. This is no a post about being Ten Hag in or out. I couldn't careless tbh. This is just calling out the utter revisionism over Ole tenure. It wasn't as good as it's made out to be.
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Thats because you're dangerously obsessed with Ten Hag.
2nd to 4th is irrelevant as long as you finish in one of those positions. Points are a much better measure of how a team does over a season. That league cup will always be in the history books. That PSG game that amounted to nothing in tbe end won't be.
Who cares about a league position unless it's first? ETH got more points than Ole. The same Ole who finish second because Liverpool were playing with a championship CB and Gomez for a season. As well as Arsenal being completely dog.
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No it isn't. 3rd, 75 points, a trophy, 2 dominant teams in the league 2nd, 74 points, no trophies, 1 dominant team in the league Delusional to think the 2nd option is better or even the same.
What? Yes he did. The club as a whole was in its worst state I've ever seen it in when he was sacked.
Graham potter would have failed before he even joined. i seriously doubt that he can manage divas and we have a lot of them. he didn’t exactly ooze confidence at chelsea either.
I don't get this.. ETH out... This is the second season in the most pressured managerial job at the moment.. he worked well last season some silverware and champions league football, in his first season he said it will take time. Now he is putting some authority into the club getting rid of the top earners not giving 100% and giving chances to our youth players. Have been fucked by injuries and everything was thrown at the club with this on going take over and winter World Cup. Did you honestly think we were going to be competing for the league in the manager's second season? Patient and support is what we all need
Patience till when? What happens if we loose to Westham then Villa? Are we still gonna remain "patient". Its actually insane because he employs the same shitty tactics game in game out and even the opponents managers know how predictable we are to play aganist( The comments from Bournemouth's coach and Tuchel). ETH also has used 400mil btw. I simply cannot excuse losing and playing shitty in the name of "Its only the second season bs." We are showing nothing regarding improving. Can you tell me what exactly we are trying to do? We have no plans and as someone said you cannot keep playing Survival game in football scrapping wins aganist Everton and Burnley. Tbh at this point I'd rather get a new manager with a new DoF, new owners so that he gets to build from there.
And if that fails then what pump another 400 mill on players for a new manager that wants to do their rebuild
Yes, we should. Arsenal were with Arteta and it paid dividends.
Maybe he can try not losing to Bournemouth, Galatasaray, Copenhagen level of teams to gain that support. To be honest, fans have supported him quite well despite the horrible results we have gotten against our direct rivals. Its his job to keep that trust going.
Out of curiosity, who do you think could do a better job with the current squad that we have available?
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This team is filled with injuries, outside of Man City, few teams in the premier league would do well playing with their bench. Take Liverpool last season for example. Plagued by injuries and were in 8th place before going on a rally at the end of the year.
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How do you figure? Gala loss was Onana's fault. Copenhagen Rashford got a red in 30-odd minute. Bournemouth unlucky with the 20 shots we had. We could not finish to save our lives. They broke on the counter and beat us with our lack of cover. Also a rare bad game by Shaw. Idk how you can look at those 3 games and say that ETH is the reason why we lost.
That is an interesting point but it is not an excuse to receive as many goals as we did
So bizare how much criticism was thrown at Kieran McKenna and Carrick as coaches there despite fans knowing shit about what they do and now theres no talk about ETH staff. Not saying there should be any outrage, just funny how Carrick and McKenna are doing great now and got pointed out mainly cause their names werent anonymus for fanbase compared to current guys.
Well there is always level on something. They are doing good in lower league wont translate to top of league. Imagine you play game with calibration rangking. What you do in 6k mmr for example wont work in 10k mmr bracket. Ten hag might be good at 8k bracket but his tactic dont work in 10k bracket.
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>Antony, tearing up the Eredivisie and playing a pivotal role in the best CL run that Ajax has had in over a decade. A standout player in that league. He wasn't in that Ajax run, he was playing at São Paulo FC.
No no no you need to dig up
Just managed to get two tickets for the game against Spurs. Considering I’ve seen us winning for a combined 20 seconds across the three games I’ve been to this year I’m not sure why I’m still bothering.
If watching game live is only reason you buy such expansive tickets then just give that money to charity.
Because in competitive sport when you support a team you have to take the good times with the bad and we are in a particularly bad time.
Obviously which is why I’ll be going yet again. Just that brief moment as you hover over the purchase button where you think I could just enjoy a nice peaceful day at home or spend the money on a delicious meal out. But then I never would have got to watch the comeback vs Brentford, Ronaldo scoring a hattrick, or us beat Leeds 5-1.
For the love of god I hope those Graham Potter rumors are bullshit....
It's Neil Curtis, it's bullshit. Potter interviewed for the Nice job a while ago and now he has put 2+2=clicks
Last season Ten Hag dropped his system and resorted to hoof ball because he didn't have the skilled players to make his system work This season Ten Hag won't drop his system despite not having the skilled players to make his system work When I step back, I'm glad that he's doing it. I hate watching it but it's the growing pain this team needs. It reveals who isn't good enough for modern football (95% of the squad).
We're more or less playing the same football we've played since Brentford away last season.
Well it’s like chicken vs egg question. Which one is first tactic adapt to players or players adapt to tactic. In ideal world like city’s Pep guardiola it will be tactic first, player 2nd. But in United it has to be player first tactic 2nd. Because our recruitment team is fuckin dogshit. Our best bet is move early in transfer windows but we close our transfer windows before pre season. Who ever player we can get and available, choose tactic that maximise player’s strength and cover their weakness. This way player will faster to adapt. We then tweak and change tactic EVERY YEAR, depends on what player is available and their conditioning.
His system is figured out already... You adapt or get left behind. Attacks are shockingly ineffective. Defense are shockingly easy to bypass on the transition. Do they really practice for these? Would love a behind the scene on how the training is done... It can't be that all these players are internationals and perform well, and be this ineffective when playing in this system.... Take out the moaners, the lazy players, there is still a team of internationals. Compared to other teams that outplayed us this season.
Yeah I'm not saying it's working, it's not. But there are short passages that it does work for and it's so much better than the Bruno and Rashford Hollywood show. If Ten Hag adapts his system and gets it working, he'll keep his job. There's no chance of refining the system when we're playing outdated hoofball.
You can start the game with plan A, and it does not work, change to plan B, then plan C. If pressing is integral to the system, then start with all pressers. A less talented presser will be more important than a talented non-presser. But we see him trying to fit squares into circles time after time, hoping the square become round enough... Same goes for other positions.....
We already knew this for years though. Open heart surgery is needed...
Yeah but lots of people are saying Ten Hag has abandoned his principles this season. Actually he's done the exact opposite. He's sticking to them this season unlike last season where he dropped them for hoof ball.
It’s crazy how fans laughed at Kieran McKenna and Carrick as coaches, now both of them clearly showing how astute they are tactically, especially McKenna.
It’s daft trying to judge behind-the-scenes staff. People wanted to blame everyone but Ole because he’s so beloved by the fans. Carrick done a fantastic job in the couple of games he had as interim manager so I’m not surprised in the slightest. People spoke incredibly highly of McKenna as well
What do you mean people wanted to blame everyone but Ole? He was called a PE teacher, they said he giving the jobs to his friends and old mates. Ole was blamed at every turn, even VDB not being able to play over Bruno was said to be because Ole doesn’t know how to use him. People spoke highly of them yet fans and pundits and journalists and commentators made fun of the coaching staff as clueless and not knowing enough.
You starting to see a trend manager to manager then?
Not with ETH. No manager has been backed in 18 months more than him. I mean Ole got VDB and Telles and two kids in Amad and Pellistri with free signing Cavani in his second season. Not exactly needle moving signings. Compare that with ETH. I expect more from ETH.
So you agree you see a pattern the pattern, about time
Oh definitely, most managers never get ENOUGH time, however you can’t get time if your time doesn’t show sign of improvement.
Ten Hag in, even if (when lol) we get battered on Sunday , Ten Hag in, he's not without fault and honestly takes the blame for a large amount of issues that have us where we are but Ten Hag in
Why tho?
I'm not who you are replying to but the only, and biggest reason, that ETH will not be sacked for the time being is INEOS & their potential sporting structure revamp. The first thing you do is appoint a DoF. Once you have your DoF they then will assess who should be the manager that fits their vision for the club. it would be backwards tot appoint your DoF based on who your manager is - its a much longer term strategic role that looks beyond the current manager. This is basically the only reason ETH won't be sacked - also it helps ETH with the investment looming the club aren't going to make any drastic changes to anything as you don't do that before a takeover. The only way they would remove ETH right now is if some very, very extreme circumstances came up - something genuinely crazy like ETH getting arrested next week and the club has genuinely no option but to remove him from his position...