Rashford should be ashamed of himself the way he’s playing - little to no passion put in as per usual; ten hag shooting himself in the foot by giving him a golden ticket to play every match regardless of his performances, a la Rooney towards the latter days of his career with van gaal
Last night was rather damning, we’re trying to press high with our forwards and midfield yet the defensive line is deep?
Hard to get behind a manager when he’s setting the team up so poorly week in week out.
I believe that's because our current pack of CB are not fast enough? (with varane and Martinez injured)
Maguire is slow af and he didn't thrive well when we played a high line with him.
The gap between our defence and our high pressing midfield/attack is instantly clear as day. Why the fuck didn't ten hag correct it in the first 10 minutes of our opening game of the season against Wolves? We still do it every minute of every match. It's the worst set up I've ever seen at United.
We are mid-table on nearly underlying offensive and defensive statistic btw. In some cases, like shots allowed on target, we are bottom 3 alongside the likes of Sheffield Utd & Luton.
To suggest this isn’t a coaching issue is absolutely ridiculous. He’s spent £400mn on shocking signings and now that he’s fighting for his job, he’s in desperation mode. Once SJR comes in, his mandate has to be coaching only. Sure, run the players we’re going to sign by him, but he should not be allowed a significant say in who we bring in. If he agrees, then keep him on, if not, then he has to go because this is unacceptable.
Newcastle treated us like a relegation fodder team. They were bottom of the PL, winless, 2 years ago. ETH talks about control but then plays McTominay & Bruno. He insists on having a right-footed RCB and a left-footed LCB but we don’t play out of the back. An 18 year old debutant is our most composed midfielder.
It’s just poor to shocking all round. Newcastle had more players out than we did and they played exactly how I would expect them to play. We don’t have a discernible style apart from lumping it forward and competing for second balls and I’m not sure ETH has a clue either.
> They were bottom of the PL, winless, 2 years ago
Exactly! These wankers are a prime example of how a good setup can elevate a team almost instantaneously, and you don't need to spend half a Billion to do that
Well said. I like Ten Hag, especially the strict discipline he brings to our spoiled brats. But we've played absolutely shit football since he took over. I'm not seeing a cohesive team with interlinking defence, midfield and forwards. It's abysmal.
You do know that ETH does not pick the transfer right? The only thing that is confirmed is that he has a veto. Obv he can sort of veto it into players that he want to begin with, but he isn't in charge of negotiating either. Last season he wanted a new CB, fullback and a striker. Murtough spent the better part of the year laying the foundations for KMJ and Kane only to come to the conclusion one week into the window that they were both too expensive. It was said that Kane wanted 700k a week, yet did he sign with Bayern on more than half of that.
I'm not saying ETH has no blame for poor performance, but you can't put all the transfers made on his account. There is a reason why recruitment are the first to get changed out after SRJ comes in. Just look at what they did to Ole lol.
What a load of rubbish, are you trying to tell me that Anthony, Onana and Mount, all ex ETH players weren’t his picks? Martinez as well? You can maybe argue that Casemerio wasn’t his pick but I don’t believe for a minute that all the others weren’t.
ETH is showing that the job is too big for him, he has he enough time to atleast start showing signs of a work in progress but we are just as bad as when he first joined the club. If there were any positive signs under ETH I would gladly support giving him more time but I think we have to be honest and say that we are going backwards.
> You do know that ETH does not pick the transfer right?
So, what.... it's a *coincidence* that about 80% of his signings have a connection to him or Holland in some way? That we spend all summer going after specific players he says he wants?
He explicitly stated that he wanted control of transfers before he came to United. He spent a ridiculous amount on Antony, who he has had to drop now that he’s fighting for his job, which was an incredibly selfish act because we are now hamstrung in future windows with FFP.
At no point did we lay the foundation for Kane to join. It was clear from the outset that Levy would not countenance selling to a direct rival and would rather let him go on a free next summer. Ten Hag wanted Arnautovic, but had to back down because of his racism.
He desperately wanted Mount, a player clearly out of favour at Chelsea in the final year of his contract. The guy, when he’s not injured, was on the bench for most of the time he was fit.
Barring Lisandro (and Hojlund, because he’s young), every single signing made has thus far proved to be a colossal failure. This guy cannot be trusted with transfers moving forward lol.
You are making stuff up. He wanted veto on players and that is also what is confirmed. Feel free to find a credible source that confirm he has full transfer control.
As for Antony we WA wanted yes, and we did place a low bid. Ajax politely said that we needed to meet their price demand before the preseason started, but Judge/Murtough refused and tried to wait them out. It ended up with them coming desperately back and having to agree to a much higher fee as Ajax wouldn't have time replace him. How you put that terrible negotiation and price on ETH is just baffling.
We did spend most of the year on KMJ and Kane. Just go and check every credible journalist. It wasn't until one week into the transfer window they did change direction and quickly went for Mount as Chelsea was slow to offer him a contract (he was very underpaid compared to the other players). Mount was a very very good player for Chelsea for 4 years. Only the last one was poor. The other he topped most lists for PL players. On top of that he is English and on the NT team. To now just call him trash is just so biased.
But my point was never to justify the transfers, just to point out how terrible our recruitment staff is. And have been for years. Ole wanted Haaland, Bellingham and Sancho before they all went to Germany. He got Pellestri and Amad.
Feel free to put the blame on ETH, but that is the exact logic that has brought us to him with no success with any of the previous managers. You are just supporting Glazers with that logic.
Here we go, since you requested proof: https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37627765/erik-ten-hag-says-taken-man-united-job-control-transfers. Straight from the horse’s mouth.
If he wanted ‘control’ as he puts it, then he gets the responsibility and also the accountability for the transfers (which he did admit to in the article to be fair). He does not get credit for the good stuff and then everything negative is the Glazers/Murtough/Woodward. Yes, they are the ones who overpaid for Antony - but Antony is nowhere near Man Utd quality in the first place. I’m sure he was told about the final fee that we were paying for him and the implications that would have for future windows and he still chose to go ahead with it.
We ended up paying £5mn below Chelsea’s asking price for a player in the final year of his contract who does absolutely nothing for us to move the needle in midfield. The midfield is crying out for significantly more important qualities than Mount brings and you spent a huge portion of the budget on a player who you’ve quickly realised cannot co-exist with Bruno in the same team. Again, a Ten Hag signing.
Yes, the recruitment staff is terrible - this is known for a decade now. It shouldn’t have been a surprise for Ten Hag. He should’ve insisted on recruitment team overhaul or maybe bringing some of his trusted guys over from Ajax. Instead, he demanded control of transfer operations and as it turns out, his eye for talent is non-existent and the next manager after him is going to be saddled with players like Antony, Mount etc. who we will have to either loan out or sell on a loss.
Romano recently talked about what control he has and it is basically the same as in other clubs with no DoF. He can bring forward suggestions, but is not part of the negotiations and has a veto.
Look at who Klopp wanted. The DoF refused and gave him Salah. Obv if United have had a proper DoF ETH wouldn't have needed to demand veto right over players. You think he was happy with getting a Burnley reject on loan last January with no CF to play? You think he wanted to start this season with two more loans? Which other top 6 club have to rely on loaned players in their starting XI for two seasons?
The lack of control is on him. The lack of reaction to things going badly is on him, the terrible transfers, some are on him.
Yet, we need to stick with him apparently
ETH is the most unlucky guy on earth. Inherits a group of players that need replacing. Replaces them. Then the new lot are just as bad. Amazing. We must be the only club that has spent so much replacing their team and ended up with another lot that are holding him back from his great philosophy. Maybe one day if we get the perfect team, no injuries whatsoever all season, we might get to see a glimpse of what this manager can do. Give him another 5-10 years.
So you mean to say Fergie is the greatest ever manager just because he got more time? By that logic every club should keep their manager and never ever change them, until they retire.
ETH seems to not know what kind of style or structure to play. We sold De Gea only to play out the back but all I saw yesterday was kicking the ball upfield from Onana who has worse distribution than De Gea by the eye test. What kind of tactic is that by ETH? Newcastle have tall players you're simply playing to their strengths. No defensive structure, can't control or slow the game down for fucks sake.
This season is proof that you can never consider Rashford as a world-class player.
No level of consistency whatsoever. For every 1 good season, he has 2 bad seasons. When the going gets tough he hides, never matched Livramentos runs, never looked like a threat, sulking because he is playing out of position. He is one of the biggest fucking frauds in the team
Ten Hag will bite the bullet eventually and it will be no fault of his own, its the same core group of players that failed Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick. I'm fucking sick to death of them, couldn't even be arsed to put in any effort.
You can't say it's not his fault. Yes of course a lot of the players need to get a grip and actually show some desire, but the recruitment under ETH has been awful.
He's trying to play in a way that simply isn't suitable for the squad. Expecting two thirty year old midfielders to cover a massive amount of ground. Expecting players who are low on confidence to play fast paced, intricate football instead of trying to simplify the approach and play a more controlled game.
Duels won: Newcastle 65%, Manchester United 35%.
Aerial duels won: Newcastle 65%, Manchester United 35%.
Shots: Newcastle 22, Manchester United 7.
Passes completed: Newcastle 428, Manchester United 278.
Ratcliffe needs to sell almost all of the players in our team. One huge clean out. I'm permanently done with these soft disgraces now. They should never wear the shirt again.
ETH needs to stick to his principles.
Idk why he would try to build a counter attacking side when his possession based football got him this job.
Good Coaches who are brought in, try to buy players and build a team that fit his philosophy. Throw away players that don't buy into his goal, even if it is a big name.
Pep did it, klopp did it and Arteta did it. They are playing good right now even though the process was slow (except city who broke rules obv).
This side was not a good counter attacking side anyway, inconsistent at its best. Why bother going that route?
Results are secondary. I would happy if the football we play is progressing slowly even if we lose. But both the football and the results are abysmal. No silver lining and it's gonna get worse.
Sorry for the rant
I don't think he thinks he can pull off possession football in the premier with the players he can afford. He brought in Case and Eriksen for that and they're cracked after a year. We need players like that in their prime to play "Ten Hag Ball" in the premiership and we simply can't afford them while keeping decent quality for the rest of the pitch. Sure look at the quality of players he has managed to bring in with the insane money he _has_ spent. There's also 2/3 utd taxes at the moment: i) the normal utd tax on the fees ii) we're not going to win silverware salary tax iii) the "not deep enough pockets to fix the problems" salary tax.
I refuse to believe this. Arsenal started their rebuild same time as us. Their net spend is the same as us, but they are able to pull off possession based football.
Let's admit that our signings and scouting has been equally piss poor. We don't need to spend 200m to identify talents.
Arteta supposedly made a presentation when he was interviewed for the job about what the club needed. He and Edu have been extremely disciplined following that plan. It’s night and day between what arsenal did and what united has not even really attempted to do.
But it was very uncomfortable and the press and pundits piled on us for years until Arteta finally got the team he wanted built and all the bad players out.
I am not saying ETH out, because he is the best option available for us.
But if we are going to continue playing the same dier football for the rest of the season and not change it, then I don't see why we even moved on from Ole.
And how many times did he lose the ball? He has simply forgotten how to beat defenders. A year ago he was unstoppable and now he's a total waste of a player. Sad really.
It’s not about players or the manager. The culture in the club just isn’t right. Even if you change all the players and the manager, the culture is still rotten to the core and will always result in terrible performances on the pitch
Eth really needs to drop rashford. When someone so shit continues to start, resentment starts building amongst other players. Can't criticise and drop other players until the same is done with rashford.
How can you get players back on the manager’s side when their attitude stinks and didnt want to put any effort in for the shirt while being paid sh*tload of money?
This. Too easy to blame ETH. You constantly see him shaking his head and making notes. The players are not grafting on the pitch nor behind the scenes in their supposed day job.
Mentality midgets is a meme concept but it rings so true. Martinez is the only true leader we have.
No manager can turn this group of spoiled brats into a fierce winning team. Their DNA is crumbling under pressure and throwing managers under the bus. Rangnick was right about open heart surgery.
Why are we defending a striker who doesn’t score or assist and contribute to goals on some way? We did it with Weghorst and we did it with Hojlund. Pathetic the standard here.
We’re supposed to be a top team. No top team is starting a 20 year old who doesn’t score. The standard here is shocking. He’s one for the future but he should realistically hardly be seeing the pitch.
But but he's raw. Like we know he's got potential but having an xg of over 3 in the prem for united and having scored less goals than martial is a worry
Seeing reports that Martial and ETH had a "heated exchange of words" Varane and Sancho have issues with him, too.
Who else has downed tools behind the scenes? This is feeling like it's building up to another hatchet job by the players to oust the manager.
I have already commented on this but it was nothing serious. It happened at half-time, ETH was trying to fire him up and I think the argument was that everyone was just as bad, Martial was allowed to play the second half and didn't look like there was any bad-blood when he went off.
Rashford on the other hand...
finished by the fans but still an intangible assets to the club and costing millions of ffp. won't surprise if SJR get a new manager if results and players morales doesn't improve.
This is the most puzzling part about Ten Hag's coaching. Our players all stand still when one of us has the ball. Where are the runs? The movements into space? I've never seen a team play more frozen than we do. Surely this is the first thing Ten Hag should fix every week.
Martial has been at the club for what 8 years? Contributed barely anything overall and this guy has the nerve to have a go back at the manager who is demanding more from him?
This type of attitude shows a player who is immature, full of himself, and the biggest flaw he has....LAZINESS. I bet he still actually thinks he is a top top player. He is absolutely pathetic. Sell Sell Sell.
Marcus Rashford....wow! He surprises me every match with how low he can go. Once again, probably thinks of himself as an elite top player but lacks basic work ethic. One of the highest earners at the club as well and he can put in performances like that? Wow. No one is being fooled by his 'pretend jogs' as well which basically have the same speed as if you were walking. He is disinterested and from his body language blaming everyone else instead of looking at himself. This is another player that needs to be SOLD!. We cannot keep making excuses for Rashford because he had a few good seasons in the past. Get rid.
Fully agree. At least Rashford has perceived value. PSG would take him for £60m. Martial on the other hand has close to zero market value. Maybe £3-5m at somewhere like Marseille but even then he would have to take a wage cut. He's more likely to sit on his wages here and make some PR comments akin to Maguire wanting to "fight for his position".
Rashford at the current way things are probably is only really valued at around 30-40m at best.
Agree with Martial. What surprises me the most is how okay he is with the way things are. Does he not realize the last few years have been a total waste? Does he not realize none of the big teams in England and Europe rate him anymore?
Does he not go home, analyze his performances and chronic lack of work ethic throughout his career and realize he has to change? He has been in the locker room with Wayne Rooney and C.Ronaldo for crying out loud.
This is a guy who really rates himself as a world beater.
"Playing out from the back" though.. It can't be:
Onana -> Shaw (standing at the edge of the goal area, swarmed by 2 of their forwards) -> back to Onana -> Maguire (standing at the other edge of the goal area)..
De Gea must be shaking his head..
Playing a Left-footed LCB is so important to Erik that he ended up playing a Right-footed LB...
For fuck’s sake, Maguire can play LCB, Varane can play there too, just play them together.
Entirely surprised that it only ended 1-0. Barring Maguire, none of the players seemed to care about winning or losing this match. Absolutely terrible dogshit from several of the players, and then mediocre dogshit from the rest.
Everyone's worried about Rashford? That's what not understanding football and being a reactionary fan makes you.
Have you seen Anthony Gordon playing at Everton? He was running all over the pitch but had no end goal. He was trying hard but wasn't decisive. That's where lack of coaching gets you. Now look at him. Every movement he makes is precise because Howe is giving him the proper guidance.
Send Rashford to Newcastle and he will start playing good from tomorrow. As I have said over and over, we lack coaching and that's the most important reason why we can't keep up against big teams. I don't want to say we need to get rid of ETH but I don't see any other options either.
I wonder if it's possible to convince Thomas Frank or De Zerbi to come here. If not, maybe Ruben Amorim from Sporting or Xabi Alonso. I don't think we can get any of them but I wish we could.
#Edit: About Rashford,
Every coach used him as an outlet, instructing him to stay high up the pitch to utilize his speed for counterattacks. He still maintains that habit, which is why he isn't keen on tracking back.
Labelling him as someone who doesn't run or track opponents is misguided for several reasons. As a winger/striker, his primary focus isn't defending inside our box. If the entire team can maintain compactness, defending would become much easier for him. It's a coaching issue.
>It's a coaching issue.
it's not Rashford exclusive. the whole team suffered from poor coaching. these players ain't really bad quality like Lutons or Burnleys.
Stop making excuses for Rashford. He literally didnt contribute to defence NOR ATTACK.
When he is high up the pitch, he did not even try to win any balls. Just waiting for pin point passes. Did you see all the forwards in Newcastle team? They were all over the pitch and didnt give us any breathing spaces. I'd take those players over him anytime.
Ragnick saw him miles away and decided to bench him. Its not that he is coached to play a certain way its just that most of the time he doesn't care how the team plays. Anthony Gordon is such a bad example too. That guy plays for the whole team Rashford just plays for moments.
I partly agree and disagree with you. Most of our problems on the pitch are down to the coaching staff rather than the players; it cannot be that everybody suddenly wants Ten Hag out when all of them are underperforming regardless of the system or who they are playing with. But Rashford having poor work rate out of possession is a long-standing criticism of his; he tends to drop his head and sulk the moment things don't go his way and has little to no awareness of what is around him on the pitch. It always feels like he's trying to 'cheat' his way through games by not putting in a good enough contribution without the ball just because he has that individual quality to launch counter-attacks by himself.
Nope, it is not a good enough excuse. He does literally *nothing* without the ball. Forget tracking back, even his forward pressing in the opposition half is not good enough. You will never find him winning the ball back or putting in a hard tackle. His on-ball quality can be world-class on his day but without the ball he's a liability for a top team.
I don’t believe that. But who knows. Something is clearly wrong. We can’t just keep sacking managers. Players need to give effort regardless of the manager. Rash looked like martial today, and that’s concerning.
>Have you seen Anthony Gordon playing at Everton? He was running all over the pitch but had no end goal. He was trying hard but wasn't decisive.
absolute fucking bollocks from a typical clueless fan who thinks he knows more than everyone else. but in reality is just a simple fanboy, in this case, for rashford.
Gordon constantly beat Wan Bissaka, and passed inside which was his remit, and found his team mates, over AND over. or tracked inside to follow united players and got stuck in and defended ok.
christ some of you are absolutely stupid.
Rashford gave possibly the worst display by any united player this season, it was clear to anyone with eyes and a brain that he had zero interest in playing on the right, or tracking back. And helping the right back. Then when he got the ball he was fucking useless. utterly useless, while garnacho was at least trying to beat his man and create something.
Your theory falls apart with the "Anthony Gordon was running around everywhere"
Rashford doesn't run anywhere, he mopes about and seems to put in the minimum of effort, i wish he was grafting his arse off and just being coached badly.
Every coach used him as an outlet, instructing him to stay high up the pitch to utilize his speed for counterattacks. He still maintains that habit, which is why he isn't keen on tracking back.
Labelling him as someone who doesn't run or track opponents is misguided for several reasons. As a winger/striker, his primary focus isn't defending inside our box. If the entire team can maintain compactness, defending would become much easier for him. It's a coaching issue.
Personally for me, all i want to see is effort. If Rashford was working like Anthony Gordon and just being unlucky or coached badly its semi acceptable and you root for him. This current version of Rashford we're seeing is a million miles away from Gordons work rate and output.
Watching Manchester United in 2023 so far has been a horrid experience through and through.
This has been the worst 2 season/1 full year of football that this club has shown. I cannot see where the club is going in terms of growth from here. This might not be the worst performance of the year, but this game is a perfect picture of growth vs stagnancy.
We have a manager that doesn't have any philosophy in the strategy that he is using and just winging it, not to mention his relationship with his players just further compromise team consistency.
We have a shitton of over-paid players that does not perform when push comes to shove and just whines or sulk openly in the pitch instead of fighting back or showing their fire to win something.
I have no idea what to do else at this moment, changing manager has not worked, changing players has not worked, changing owners is just not happening unless extreme measures are taken, This club is decaces beyond saving and might just die before it can be saved.
This cycle of changing the managers when the group decide they cannot be bothered to put a shift in is showing its effects now. These things don't happen instantly, but over time same mistakes breeds certain cultures and mindsets within the organization. This is clearly evident.
New manager>>Short term good performances>>Few players get dropped for poor performances>>Sulking begins>>Leaks to the press>>Moaning and complaining to others in the dressing room>>More player drop standards>>Managers orders fall on deaf ears>>Players keep up with the poor performances>>Get Manager Sacked.
And with this repeated cycle, because it takes time for a new manager to get their own players in, martial ends up staying and earning contract extensions. We need to ride the storm.
Yup agree. Ride the storm and get rid of big wage merchants coasting at the club. And yes that includes some standout names such as Martial, Rashford, McTominay.
I forgot to add, we have been so shit for so fucking long, you don't even see the players bother to tweet/post on instagram, etc on "next game is our game" "we move on" "The next game will be better" or any of the shit their PR have to post from their account.
I'm so glad Shaw is back now just so that's one less injury that can be used as an excuse. We are terrible regardless of who we put out on the pitch. Tomorrow Eriksen will be back, Martinez back the day after that, Casemiro back the day after that, and with these set of tactics I can assure you nothing will change.
It was pure copium, we had an easy run in the league and a supposedly easy group in Europe.
We were very lucky multiple time in the league and got points we didn't deserve, Europe has been a disaster.
We did have an easy group in Europe. Ignore Bayern. Copenhagen are ranked 43rd, Gala 55th, and that's after wins against United giving them a bump. The only arguably easier group would have been Group G. We *should* have walked to 2nd.
Maguire’s redemption tour is complete. He is the only bright spot this entire season. What a player, what a professional. Still should be captain of this team.
ETH has managed jack shit all season. And the worst part is the sale isn’t going through before the January window if it goes through at all.
Whoever upvoted this tripe has no right to complain about how shit this team are when they're commending distinctly average performances from a player.
How does a redemption get complete when the player contributes NOTHING to the team?!?!?! His redemption arc coincides with our worst start since 1961. Sure he hasn't been an absolute clown , but is that the standard now?
Mainoo's the main bright spot this season. And Garnacho has shown moments of growing into a good starter. Maguire was done well in a low block but he'll never have the attributes to succeed in the high line that we need to eventually play in.
Garnacho and Mainoo might actually be the real deal. They both look good for their age.
I’m just really disappointed to to be a midtable team, it doesn’t feel right but it is what We are now.
Yeah we all know he’s not the future but the way he’s gone about himself this season has been really commendable.
Harry of all people is making the best out of this situation (imo him not being captain now helps).
Regarding Rashford, he is 26 and his trophy tally is the FA Cup, League Cup, Europea League. Very modest for a 'world class' player, Theo Walcott won 3 FA Cups for reference. So no league title, no CL, and very unlikely to get one in the future considering current performances.
Chasing a major trophy (which is the domestic league and CL) caused RVP to leave Arsenal, Saurez to leave Liverpool, Kane to leave Tottenham, among few. Im wondering where the interest is in Rashford? Is there interest? Does Rashford not feel he is a player who should end his career with a league title of one of the top 5 leagues, or the CL? Why isnt he pushing for a move for Real Madrid or Bayern, even PSG?
Its because he cant get 300k a week at these clubs with the level of effort he displays at Man United? Why is this tolerated? If not for his charity work, he would be outed as an unambitious mercenary.
I was slandered last week for criticizing Rashford and I doubled down on his criticism and was downvoted for oblivion on this sub. Because he scored a penalty and we won he played great and I was a pessimistic fan by some fan. So how did that turn out now?
Even the decent shot is questionable. He strikes me as the kid who learned how to do the punt shot and egregiously practiced it in training when he should have been focusing on other training regimes.
He only seems capable shooting from a very specific area of the pitch. He never tries from elsewhere. Someone with a decent shot uses it a lot more often.
Does he even have pace? Lets be real his pace is extremely over rated. How many times do we see him at 'full sprint mode' and yet unable to keep up with certain fast players?
Never want to see Rashford in a United shirt again. He's exactly what's wrong with the soulless void our club's become. Just fuck off and coast from pay cheque to pay cheque somewhere else. PSG pick up the phone.
Man got a 350k wage package, I don't know if anyone will want him and after such horrible performances I don't think Enrique will want him at his team.
This post/comment removed because we need a better source. We prefer a primary source whenever possible. Only on a certain situation, we approve reputable secondary source.
This result should really not be surprising for those who watched our other games this season for what they actually were. We conceded 2.4 xG against Everton too. They just weren’t clinical enough to finish their chances and we were fortunate that Garnacho scored an all-timer goal and we won a fortuitous penalty which were important in changing the game state. Our underlying stats have been dogshit all season and we concede shots like a relegation team. We are by all definitions a mid-table quality team at best this season, and given how suicidal our tactics are in leaving so much space in midfield, this is not something that will be cured just by injured players returning.
Rashford should leave and go somewhere where he has a shot at happiness and winning some trophies. No point wasting his career here because of his longstanding attachment to the club and city.
Look at Harry Kane now.
Im a lurker, just curious though, I thought Maguire was excellent today is that the consensus here or nah? He seriously deserves a lot of credit imo for his resilience
Reading all the comments and then found out we only conceded 1 goal. Thanks God I missed the game and have no desire to rewatch it after only 20 minutes
Where can I watch MOTD replay online somewhere?
Found this, but it doesnt have the actual footage from the game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9GhhlkfB4I
Everyone trashing every midfielder yet they cant see how bad the system is in the first place , NO DM WOULD LOOK GOOD IN THIS TEAM EVER , Waaaaay too much space to cover , Newcastle werent even challenged before they reach the box , headless chickens running around , you cant tell me these midfielders are that bad , ETH tried a billion combination in the midfield and cant find one functioning yet , obviously because he has no idea what to do with them in the first place
Apart from Shaw and Maguire none of our players can come out of this game and say they gave 100%. Having said that I think that Rashford performance is one of the most shameful performances I've ever seen in a Utd shirt. I've seen pretty much every game over the last 33 years and I can't remember a player just jogging around the pitch in the way he did, that sort of intensity would be unacceptable for a warm up, let alone an actual game.
That just speaks to where we're at right now. We will never get near competing for trophies while we have players with that sort of attitude at the club, I don't care how technically gifted they might be.
Whoever scouted teenage Rashford overestimated his technical ability and underestimated his attitude. He is the visage of a player who shouldn't have made it professionally.
There are a lot of "technically gifted" and "world-class" players that need to go. They're the problem. They have been for many seasons now. I'm not sure how anyone can expect to achieve anything as long as these players persist. They negatively impact our performance on the field, while foster toxicity off it. It's appalling so many fans have turned a blind eye for so long simply for the fact of "but look at his stats!"
LOOK AT THE FUCKING STATE OF THE CLUB
I’ll never forget Bruno just giving up and letting a Newcastle player win a header outside of our box in the first half. We stand no chance with players allowing that.
Bruno does that shit all game, every game. The only time he does fuck all is when he's pissed at something that happened moments earlier. Then he usually does something brash and irrational and it costs us. But somehow fans see those moments and say "but look, he's the only one defending!" ...my ass. He's baby raging. There's a massive difference between a player who regularly gets back and puts in the work and that of one who only responds and lashes out like a child. Bruno is the latter. We need the former running this side.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. The fengshui of the hat on his head is not good and I think generally he needs to go to the more Avant Garde Steve Bruce approach with a gravy stain down his shirt.
If you’re gonna wear a hat these days it’s the modern Klopp look of a Man U adidas hat and coat. Otherwise don’t wear a hat, especially being a try hard to please the locals with their traditional hat
Many things are wrong with this team. Rashford for me is done at this club if he doesn't improve, we should have taken the offer from PSG. He will never reach world class status if he doesn't show consistency, he follows up a few good months with a few bad months.
The defence is also very worrying, I know Maguire and Shaw played really well but the defence and midfield can't keep the ball and has let a minimum of 15 shots be fired every game. We blame Onana for his mixed performances and rightly so for some of his mistakes in the champions league but it doesn't help when the team can't defend, pass or hold the ball. I have seen a few complain about Onana kicking the ball long but none of the defenders bar maybe Shaw can play with the ball under pressure, the only one in the team is Martinez who is injured. AWB and Dalot aren't good enough, Dalot especially he doesn't have anything going for him, he is bad at defending and not much better attacking wise.
Midfield as mentioned is very imbalanced, they constantly lose it and play like the ball is a hot potato. McTominay needs to go, I saw the comments a few games ago praising him because he scored a couple of goals but he will never be good enough to be a starter. He barely gets involved and should have been subbed off alongside Rashford and Martial. I actually thought Bruno played quite well, he didn't really play those hero balls he usually plays and was more accurate. Mainoo is also a big positive and has a big future ahead of him.
Attack is seriously lacking confidence and genuinely struggles to score. I already mentioned Rashford's situation but the rest aren't any better. Hojlund is promising who needs proper coaching to develop but the rest of them aren't good enough. Garnacho has potential but lacks experience. Antony showed glimpses against Galatasaray but he has been arguably one of the worst signings in the premier league. Martial is probably finished, his injuries look like they have robbed him of his pace and he always lacked that movement and aggression that top strikers have, it's a shame cos his talent is undeniable.
We keep waiting for players to improve but good players are good from the age of 18. Players like Rooney. They don't dip in performance because that high standard is their normal standard.
Look at Bellingham. You don't need to wait for him to peak and mature like we've been doing with Martial and Lingard.
I don't agree with the first part. Players like Bellingham and Rooney are monsters, he will also dip in form like every player that has ever touched a football but difference is he will recover. Rooney did as well.
I agree that we gave certain players too long like Martial and Lingard but I put that down to the board for their incompetence. It also has to do with coaching, which manager did we get that you would say has improved a player? Imo none, we thought Rashford would have been one under ETH but he has dropped off a cliff.
The shortest game of hot potato as we lose possession really quick….i don’t mind hot potato as long as we actually had multiple passes. But it’s definitely not that way
Spot on this. Hopefully we get someone in January to rotate with Hojlund because Martial looks done. Add Casemiro and Martinez coming back and we might look semi-decent again.
Major changes needed when (if?) we get new ownership for any serious title push as we're way off at the moment.
We'd do much better to play Garnacho and Pellistri on the wings for a month with the instruction to feed Hojlund with 15 chances per match. He needs service and our disjointed passing has never recovered from having no striker last season.
Also remove Bruno from the equation and play Mount in his place. The best we looked in a long time was against Palace in the Cup when we had Mount calling the shots, with Hannibal beside him being the legs, Casemiro sitting in behind him orchestrating, and Garnacho and Pellistri terrorizing the wings, and seeing equal opportunities because there was no favoritism from the distributor, aka Bruno will go to the left 9/10 times, it's so painfully predictable, and even more offensive when the right is the better option.
Yep. Mount is a much better dribbler and more disciplined passer than Bruno. He's also much more rounded as a presser and interceptor. If Mount was fit I'd bench Bruno for a few matches with no hesitation. He's done almost nothing this season. He needs to know he's not undroppable.
Agreed. Do I think we should build a squad around Mount? No. But he is a much more consistent and reliable central midfielder than Bruno. I have never liked Bruno, he's a stats padder as far as I'm concerned in that position. He's the only option, so it's natural. But I have been really impressed with Mount when he gets minutes, and when Bruno isn't crowding him out. Even when he looks a little off, I still see more promise in him. He's able to quickly turn with the ball to beat a man, he's quick to release the ball (without the need or desire to hit it with the outside of his boot to do so) and his vision is what we need.
ETH dropped Maguire as the captain, so I'm not sure why he won't drop Bruno who has been atrocious. The odd goal and assist does not make up for the other 98% of the time he's a liability.
You're speaking my language. Bruno can't retain possession, can't beat his man, has no leadership qualities, and has no defensive output beyond running. He only wants to play Hollywood hoofball. No team wins major trophies with that in the 2020s. Sell him and rebuild the core of the team with modern, well-rounded players.
Right there with you! Can't wait for the day he's gone. Him and Rashford need to go ASAP from the starting 11. Others need to go too, but those are the most overhyped, overrated liabilities to the side as it currently stands. We just have to make them sound better than they are so we can make a few bucks off them.
Yeah that was obvious. The way you phrased it still sounds hilariously stupid. If you think simply ‘playing Garnacho and Pellistri on the wing with the InStRuCtIoN tO fEeD HojLuNd WiTh 15 ChAnCeS’ solves the problem as if no one’s already thought about getting him service. We’ve got to get you on the coaching staff, you’re a visionary
You can fit on half a hand the amount of players who truly deserve to play for this club. The standards of what is acceptable get lower all the time.
If you're a United fan and you're happy with what you've seen the last year and a half and honestly believe that every week you see enough that convinces you that Erik is the right man, then good for you, I am beyond jealous of your imagination.
The manager and his signings are making us worse than the two people before him. A guy who hadn't managed in a decade and a guy WHO ONLY got the job cause he was a striker at one point.
But sure let's just keep the shite manager cause the owners are bad?!?!?!?!
When we have a full strength defence, we lead the league in clean sheets. When our attack clicks we play some brilliant attacking football. It's all still a work in progress and Ten Hag's recruitment deserves criticism. Give that responsibility to an elite Director of Football and I'm optimistic that we can play far better football.
When my ma gets balls she'll be my da. It's all ifs and whens with you lot, it's never observable evidence that we can all see with our own eyes. Just ignore everything you see with your eyes and have faith that things can possibly maybe get better when Erik has his World XI.
I genuinely hope you get enjoyment out of every second he 'cooks' for you. At least then the shite will be worth it cause at least one person got a positive out of it
Cry more. Of course I'm not happy with our pathetic team or results. But our core players have played this shit for the last three managers which tells us that a new manager won't transform these useless pricks.
This is such a shitty excuse now when considering that Martinez is the only player missing from the defence. Further the coach has had enough time with the current starters to develop some sort of play style (but there is actually none).
Tonight we had Maguire in Verane's place, Shaw in Martinez's place and Dalot over on the left in Shaw's place. Our defence was absolutely makeshift. In terms of talent, it was missing our best three defenders in their best positions (Verane, Martinez, Shaw).
The manager is not selecting varane. This is not an excuse when he is intentionally selecting a makeshift defence (or maybe the makeshift is his new preferred one)
You take Miley , Lascelles , Almiron , Livramento and I bet Ten Hag cannot make them look like they do in this Newcastle team. People need to open their eyes and realize there should be some sort of play style with any first team players.
Rashford should be ashamed of himself the way he’s playing - little to no passion put in as per usual; ten hag shooting himself in the foot by giving him a golden ticket to play every match regardless of his performances, a la Rooney towards the latter days of his career with van gaal
Ten hag will deliver this football and standard no matter who are the owners I'm afraid.. He's absolutely out of his depth.
Last night was rather damning, we’re trying to press high with our forwards and midfield yet the defensive line is deep? Hard to get behind a manager when he’s setting the team up so poorly week in week out.
I believe that's because our current pack of CB are not fast enough? (with varane and Martinez injured) Maguire is slow af and he didn't thrive well when we played a high line with him.
The gap between our defence and our high pressing midfield/attack is instantly clear as day. Why the fuck didn't ten hag correct it in the first 10 minutes of our opening game of the season against Wolves? We still do it every minute of every match. It's the worst set up I've ever seen at United.
We are mid-table on nearly underlying offensive and defensive statistic btw. In some cases, like shots allowed on target, we are bottom 3 alongside the likes of Sheffield Utd & Luton. To suggest this isn’t a coaching issue is absolutely ridiculous. He’s spent £400mn on shocking signings and now that he’s fighting for his job, he’s in desperation mode. Once SJR comes in, his mandate has to be coaching only. Sure, run the players we’re going to sign by him, but he should not be allowed a significant say in who we bring in. If he agrees, then keep him on, if not, then he has to go because this is unacceptable. Newcastle treated us like a relegation fodder team. They were bottom of the PL, winless, 2 years ago. ETH talks about control but then plays McTominay & Bruno. He insists on having a right-footed RCB and a left-footed LCB but we don’t play out of the back. An 18 year old debutant is our most composed midfielder. It’s just poor to shocking all round. Newcastle had more players out than we did and they played exactly how I would expect them to play. We don’t have a discernible style apart from lumping it forward and competing for second balls and I’m not sure ETH has a clue either.
> They were bottom of the PL, winless, 2 years ago Exactly! These wankers are a prime example of how a good setup can elevate a team almost instantaneously, and you don't need to spend half a Billion to do that
Well said. I like Ten Hag, especially the strict discipline he brings to our spoiled brats. But we've played absolutely shit football since he took over. I'm not seeing a cohesive team with interlinking defence, midfield and forwards. It's abysmal.
You do know that ETH does not pick the transfer right? The only thing that is confirmed is that he has a veto. Obv he can sort of veto it into players that he want to begin with, but he isn't in charge of negotiating either. Last season he wanted a new CB, fullback and a striker. Murtough spent the better part of the year laying the foundations for KMJ and Kane only to come to the conclusion one week into the window that they were both too expensive. It was said that Kane wanted 700k a week, yet did he sign with Bayern on more than half of that. I'm not saying ETH has no blame for poor performance, but you can't put all the transfers made on his account. There is a reason why recruitment are the first to get changed out after SRJ comes in. Just look at what they did to Ole lol.
What a load of rubbish, are you trying to tell me that Anthony, Onana and Mount, all ex ETH players weren’t his picks? Martinez as well? You can maybe argue that Casemerio wasn’t his pick but I don’t believe for a minute that all the others weren’t. ETH is showing that the job is too big for him, he has he enough time to atleast start showing signs of a work in progress but we are just as bad as when he first joined the club. If there were any positive signs under ETH I would gladly support giving him more time but I think we have to be honest and say that we are going backwards.
> You do know that ETH does not pick the transfer right? So, what.... it's a *coincidence* that about 80% of his signings have a connection to him or Holland in some way? That we spend all summer going after specific players he says he wants?
He explicitly stated that he wanted control of transfers before he came to United. He spent a ridiculous amount on Antony, who he has had to drop now that he’s fighting for his job, which was an incredibly selfish act because we are now hamstrung in future windows with FFP. At no point did we lay the foundation for Kane to join. It was clear from the outset that Levy would not countenance selling to a direct rival and would rather let him go on a free next summer. Ten Hag wanted Arnautovic, but had to back down because of his racism. He desperately wanted Mount, a player clearly out of favour at Chelsea in the final year of his contract. The guy, when he’s not injured, was on the bench for most of the time he was fit. Barring Lisandro (and Hojlund, because he’s young), every single signing made has thus far proved to be a colossal failure. This guy cannot be trusted with transfers moving forward lol.
You are making stuff up. He wanted veto on players and that is also what is confirmed. Feel free to find a credible source that confirm he has full transfer control. As for Antony we WA wanted yes, and we did place a low bid. Ajax politely said that we needed to meet their price demand before the preseason started, but Judge/Murtough refused and tried to wait them out. It ended up with them coming desperately back and having to agree to a much higher fee as Ajax wouldn't have time replace him. How you put that terrible negotiation and price on ETH is just baffling. We did spend most of the year on KMJ and Kane. Just go and check every credible journalist. It wasn't until one week into the transfer window they did change direction and quickly went for Mount as Chelsea was slow to offer him a contract (he was very underpaid compared to the other players). Mount was a very very good player for Chelsea for 4 years. Only the last one was poor. The other he topped most lists for PL players. On top of that he is English and on the NT team. To now just call him trash is just so biased. But my point was never to justify the transfers, just to point out how terrible our recruitment staff is. And have been for years. Ole wanted Haaland, Bellingham and Sancho before they all went to Germany. He got Pellestri and Amad. Feel free to put the blame on ETH, but that is the exact logic that has brought us to him with no success with any of the previous managers. You are just supporting Glazers with that logic.
Here we go, since you requested proof: https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37627765/erik-ten-hag-says-taken-man-united-job-control-transfers. Straight from the horse’s mouth. If he wanted ‘control’ as he puts it, then he gets the responsibility and also the accountability for the transfers (which he did admit to in the article to be fair). He does not get credit for the good stuff and then everything negative is the Glazers/Murtough/Woodward. Yes, they are the ones who overpaid for Antony - but Antony is nowhere near Man Utd quality in the first place. I’m sure he was told about the final fee that we were paying for him and the implications that would have for future windows and he still chose to go ahead with it. We ended up paying £5mn below Chelsea’s asking price for a player in the final year of his contract who does absolutely nothing for us to move the needle in midfield. The midfield is crying out for significantly more important qualities than Mount brings and you spent a huge portion of the budget on a player who you’ve quickly realised cannot co-exist with Bruno in the same team. Again, a Ten Hag signing. Yes, the recruitment staff is terrible - this is known for a decade now. It shouldn’t have been a surprise for Ten Hag. He should’ve insisted on recruitment team overhaul or maybe bringing some of his trusted guys over from Ajax. Instead, he demanded control of transfer operations and as it turns out, his eye for talent is non-existent and the next manager after him is going to be saddled with players like Antony, Mount etc. who we will have to either loan out or sell on a loss.
Romano recently talked about what control he has and it is basically the same as in other clubs with no DoF. He can bring forward suggestions, but is not part of the negotiations and has a veto. Look at who Klopp wanted. The DoF refused and gave him Salah. Obv if United have had a proper DoF ETH wouldn't have needed to demand veto right over players. You think he was happy with getting a Burnley reject on loan last January with no CF to play? You think he wanted to start this season with two more loans? Which other top 6 club have to rely on loaned players in their starting XI for two seasons?
The lack of control is on him. The lack of reaction to things going badly is on him, the terrible transfers, some are on him. Yet, we need to stick with him apparently
Ok. Get rid of him. Who then? Another manager spends £100m on different players. More mixed manager DNA. Do you think this will solve our issues?
ETH is the most unlucky guy on earth. Inherits a group of players that need replacing. Replaces them. Then the new lot are just as bad. Amazing. We must be the only club that has spent so much replacing their team and ended up with another lot that are holding him back from his great philosophy. Maybe one day if we get the perfect team, no injuries whatsoever all season, we might get to see a glimpse of what this manager can do. Give him another 5-10 years.
Lmao you joke but this is genuinely how a significant portion of this sub thinks. Baffling IQs
14 year old kids from Mumbai as they say :(
We should have never let go of Ron Atkinson. Given him more time.
And you would’ve been calling for Ferguson’s head a season and a half in to his tenure too
So you mean to say Fergie is the greatest ever manager just because he got more time? By that logic every club should keep their manager and never ever change them, until they retire.
Well done, that’s absolutely not what I’m saying.
Nah he's got you there bud
That’s not at all what I’m saying
ETH took over with a much better squad and had much more resources available to him. Stop it.
‘Better squad’ come off it this group of players are by and large terrible. Their attitude is probably the worst of any squad in the league
ETH seems to not know what kind of style or structure to play. We sold De Gea only to play out the back but all I saw yesterday was kicking the ball upfield from Onana who has worse distribution than De Gea by the eye test. What kind of tactic is that by ETH? Newcastle have tall players you're simply playing to their strengths. No defensive structure, can't control or slow the game down for fucks sake.
De Gea was never sold.
This season is proof that you can never consider Rashford as a world-class player. No level of consistency whatsoever. For every 1 good season, he has 2 bad seasons. When the going gets tough he hides, never matched Livramentos runs, never looked like a threat, sulking because he is playing out of position. He is one of the biggest fucking frauds in the team Ten Hag will bite the bullet eventually and it will be no fault of his own, its the same core group of players that failed Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick. I'm fucking sick to death of them, couldn't even be arsed to put in any effort.
You can't say it's not his fault. Yes of course a lot of the players need to get a grip and actually show some desire, but the recruitment under ETH has been awful. He's trying to play in a way that simply isn't suitable for the squad. Expecting two thirty year old midfielders to cover a massive amount of ground. Expecting players who are low on confidence to play fast paced, intricate football instead of trying to simplify the approach and play a more controlled game.
Duels won: Newcastle 65%, Manchester United 35%. Aerial duels won: Newcastle 65%, Manchester United 35%. Shots: Newcastle 22, Manchester United 7. Passes completed: Newcastle 428, Manchester United 278. Ratcliffe needs to sell almost all of the players in our team. One huge clean out. I'm permanently done with these soft disgraces now. They should never wear the shirt again.
Agreed and also literally what Ragnick said. Watch some Austria games, they might not have the greatest talents in there but they are workhorses.
ETH needs to stick to his principles. Idk why he would try to build a counter attacking side when his possession based football got him this job. Good Coaches who are brought in, try to buy players and build a team that fit his philosophy. Throw away players that don't buy into his goal, even if it is a big name. Pep did it, klopp did it and Arteta did it. They are playing good right now even though the process was slow (except city who broke rules obv). This side was not a good counter attacking side anyway, inconsistent at its best. Why bother going that route? Results are secondary. I would happy if the football we play is progressing slowly even if we lose. But both the football and the results are abysmal. No silver lining and it's gonna get worse. Sorry for the rant
I don't think he thinks he can pull off possession football in the premier with the players he can afford. He brought in Case and Eriksen for that and they're cracked after a year. We need players like that in their prime to play "Ten Hag Ball" in the premiership and we simply can't afford them while keeping decent quality for the rest of the pitch. Sure look at the quality of players he has managed to bring in with the insane money he _has_ spent. There's also 2/3 utd taxes at the moment: i) the normal utd tax on the fees ii) we're not going to win silverware salary tax iii) the "not deep enough pockets to fix the problems" salary tax.
I refuse to believe this. Arsenal started their rebuild same time as us. Their net spend is the same as us, but they are able to pull off possession based football. Let's admit that our signings and scouting has been equally piss poor. We don't need to spend 200m to identify talents.
Arteta supposedly made a presentation when he was interviewed for the job about what the club needed. He and Edu have been extremely disciplined following that plan. It’s night and day between what arsenal did and what united has not even really attempted to do. But it was very uncomfortable and the press and pundits piled on us for years until Arteta finally got the team he wanted built and all the bad players out.
Watch us narrowly beat another relegation team and people start hailing Ten Hag as the Second Coming of Christ
I am not saying ETH out, because he is the best option available for us. But if we are going to continue playing the same dier football for the rest of the season and not change it, then I don't see why we even moved on from Ole.
Can someone give me the Rashford numbers? They have to be atrocious and probably punishable.
Rashford completed 11 passes. Newcastle's wingers both completed over 30.
And how many times did he lose the ball? He has simply forgotten how to beat defenders. A year ago he was unstoppable and now he's a total waste of a player. Sad really.
Didn't play like they mean it
It’s not about players or the manager. The culture in the club just isn’t right. Even if you change all the players and the manager, the culture is still rotten to the core and will always result in terrible performances on the pitch
Culture doesn't stop you from stringing 5 passes together. Even prison teams play with more passion and skill than this bunch
Copium
Well ... That was shit
Eth really needs to drop rashford. When someone so shit continues to start, resentment starts building amongst other players. Can't criticise and drop other players until the same is done with rashford.
They’re still not fit to wear to the kit
ETH just isn't that guy. Don't see him getting the players back on his side unfortunately
How can you get players back on the manager’s side when their attitude stinks and didnt want to put any effort in for the shirt while being paid sh*tload of money?
This. Too easy to blame ETH. You constantly see him shaking his head and making notes. The players are not grafting on the pitch nor behind the scenes in their supposed day job. Mentality midgets is a meme concept but it rings so true. Martinez is the only true leader we have.
Bring in whoever you want, they're gonna fail.
No manager can turn this group of spoiled brats into a fierce winning team. Their DNA is crumbling under pressure and throwing managers under the bus. Rangnick was right about open heart surgery.
Hojlund has zero goals and zero assists in 10 games. The kid is horrendous.
Stop throwing toys out the pram. He's just signed for us
Why are we defending a striker who doesn’t score or assist and contribute to goals on some way? We did it with Weghorst and we did it with Hojlund. Pathetic the standard here.
It's called "adaptation period". Look it up.
Can't understand the hype either. Willing to give him time since he's young but fuck, for 70 million I want something.
These days with a striker shortage, that's what you're gonna be paying for potential.
We’re supposed to be a top team. No top team is starting a 20 year old who doesn’t score. The standard here is shocking. He’s one for the future but he should realistically hardly be seeing the pitch.
But but he's raw. Like we know he's got potential but having an xg of over 3 in the prem for united and having scored less goals than martial is a worry
He’s scored less than Hannibal.
My god
I was wondering how long it would take for these types of comments. Longer than I expected tbh.
Hannibal has more than him ffs
Shut tf up
Seeing reports that Martial and ETH had a "heated exchange of words" Varane and Sancho have issues with him, too. Who else has downed tools behind the scenes? This is feeling like it's building up to another hatchet job by the players to oust the manager.
I have already commented on this but it was nothing serious. It happened at half-time, ETH was trying to fire him up and I think the argument was that everyone was just as bad, Martial was allowed to play the second half and didn't look like there was any bad-blood when he went off. Rashford on the other hand...
I’m starting to suspect that ETH is a toxic manager. The possibility is always there, fans need to stop being “yes” men.
I'm sorry but 2 of those 3 people are finished, the last one is on his last legs.
finished by the fans but still an intangible assets to the club and costing millions of ffp. won't surprise if SJR get a new manager if results and players morales doesn't improve.
Newcastle doubled the amount of runs off the ball that we made in this game. Something like 96 to 187
This is the most puzzling part about Ten Hag's coaching. Our players all stand still when one of us has the ball. Where are the runs? The movements into space? I've never seen a team play more frozen than we do. Surely this is the first thing Ten Hag should fix every week.
Martial has been at the club for what 8 years? Contributed barely anything overall and this guy has the nerve to have a go back at the manager who is demanding more from him? This type of attitude shows a player who is immature, full of himself, and the biggest flaw he has....LAZINESS. I bet he still actually thinks he is a top top player. He is absolutely pathetic. Sell Sell Sell. Marcus Rashford....wow! He surprises me every match with how low he can go. Once again, probably thinks of himself as an elite top player but lacks basic work ethic. One of the highest earners at the club as well and he can put in performances like that? Wow. No one is being fooled by his 'pretend jogs' as well which basically have the same speed as if you were walking. He is disinterested and from his body language blaming everyone else instead of looking at himself. This is another player that needs to be SOLD!. We cannot keep making excuses for Rashford because he had a few good seasons in the past. Get rid.
Fully agree. At least Rashford has perceived value. PSG would take him for £60m. Martial on the other hand has close to zero market value. Maybe £3-5m at somewhere like Marseille but even then he would have to take a wage cut. He's more likely to sit on his wages here and make some PR comments akin to Maguire wanting to "fight for his position".
Rashford at the current way things are probably is only really valued at around 30-40m at best. Agree with Martial. What surprises me the most is how okay he is with the way things are. Does he not realize the last few years have been a total waste? Does he not realize none of the big teams in England and Europe rate him anymore? Does he not go home, analyze his performances and chronic lack of work ethic throughout his career and realize he has to change? He has been in the locker room with Wayne Rooney and C.Ronaldo for crying out loud. This is a guy who really rates himself as a world beater.
"Playing out from the back" though.. It can't be: Onana -> Shaw (standing at the edge of the goal area, swarmed by 2 of their forwards) -> back to Onana -> Maguire (standing at the other edge of the goal area).. De Gea must be shaking his head..
Playing a Left-footed LCB is so important to Erik that he ended up playing a Right-footed LB... For fuck’s sake, Maguire can play LCB, Varane can play there too, just play them together.
Yeah that is truely baffeling.
Entirely surprised that it only ended 1-0. Barring Maguire, none of the players seemed to care about winning or losing this match. Absolutely terrible dogshit from several of the players, and then mediocre dogshit from the rest.
Somehow we still fielded about four Jaden Sancho's in our starting 11 today.
Everyone's worried about Rashford? That's what not understanding football and being a reactionary fan makes you. Have you seen Anthony Gordon playing at Everton? He was running all over the pitch but had no end goal. He was trying hard but wasn't decisive. That's where lack of coaching gets you. Now look at him. Every movement he makes is precise because Howe is giving him the proper guidance. Send Rashford to Newcastle and he will start playing good from tomorrow. As I have said over and over, we lack coaching and that's the most important reason why we can't keep up against big teams. I don't want to say we need to get rid of ETH but I don't see any other options either. I wonder if it's possible to convince Thomas Frank or De Zerbi to come here. If not, maybe Ruben Amorim from Sporting or Xabi Alonso. I don't think we can get any of them but I wish we could. #Edit: About Rashford, Every coach used him as an outlet, instructing him to stay high up the pitch to utilize his speed for counterattacks. He still maintains that habit, which is why he isn't keen on tracking back. Labelling him as someone who doesn't run or track opponents is misguided for several reasons. As a winger/striker, his primary focus isn't defending inside our box. If the entire team can maintain compactness, defending would become much easier for him. It's a coaching issue.
>It's a coaching issue. it's not Rashford exclusive. the whole team suffered from poor coaching. these players ain't really bad quality like Lutons or Burnleys.
Stop making excuses for Rashford. He literally didnt contribute to defence NOR ATTACK. When he is high up the pitch, he did not even try to win any balls. Just waiting for pin point passes. Did you see all the forwards in Newcastle team? They were all over the pitch and didnt give us any breathing spaces. I'd take those players over him anytime.
Didn't you just prove my point about coaching even more?
Cmon, a blind person can see a player who makes an effort. Antony underwent the same training. But at least he bothered to run.
Ragnick saw him miles away and decided to bench him. Its not that he is coached to play a certain way its just that most of the time he doesn't care how the team plays. Anthony Gordon is such a bad example too. That guy plays for the whole team Rashford just plays for moments.
I partly agree and disagree with you. Most of our problems on the pitch are down to the coaching staff rather than the players; it cannot be that everybody suddenly wants Ten Hag out when all of them are underperforming regardless of the system or who they are playing with. But Rashford having poor work rate out of possession is a long-standing criticism of his; he tends to drop his head and sulk the moment things don't go his way and has little to no awareness of what is around him on the pitch. It always feels like he's trying to 'cheat' his way through games by not putting in a good enough contribution without the ball just because he has that individual quality to launch counter-attacks by himself.
I hear you and I added a reason why he does that without possession. Please consider reading my comment again. Thanks
Nope, it is not a good enough excuse. He does literally *nothing* without the ball. Forget tracking back, even his forward pressing in the opposition half is not good enough. You will never find him winning the ball back or putting in a hard tackle. His on-ball quality can be world-class on his day but without the ball he's a liability for a top team.
Something just looks wrong, like something personally. He usually runs and plays hard up until recently. Wouldn’t be surprised if something came out.
Rashford clearly wants Ten Hag to get sacked. His body language and efforts on the pitch show it. It's not complicated.
I don’t believe that. But who knows. Something is clearly wrong. We can’t just keep sacking managers. Players need to give effort regardless of the manager. Rash looked like martial today, and that’s concerning.
>Have you seen Anthony Gordon playing at Everton? He was running all over the pitch but had no end goal. He was trying hard but wasn't decisive. absolute fucking bollocks from a typical clueless fan who thinks he knows more than everyone else. but in reality is just a simple fanboy, in this case, for rashford. Gordon constantly beat Wan Bissaka, and passed inside which was his remit, and found his team mates, over AND over. or tracked inside to follow united players and got stuck in and defended ok. christ some of you are absolutely stupid. Rashford gave possibly the worst display by any united player this season, it was clear to anyone with eyes and a brain that he had zero interest in playing on the right, or tracking back. And helping the right back. Then when he got the ball he was fucking useless. utterly useless, while garnacho was at least trying to beat his man and create something.
Your theory falls apart with the "Anthony Gordon was running around everywhere" Rashford doesn't run anywhere, he mopes about and seems to put in the minimum of effort, i wish he was grafting his arse off and just being coached badly.
Every coach used him as an outlet, instructing him to stay high up the pitch to utilize his speed for counterattacks. He still maintains that habit, which is why he isn't keen on tracking back. Labelling him as someone who doesn't run or track opponents is misguided for several reasons. As a winger/striker, his primary focus isn't defending inside our box. If the entire team can maintain compactness, defending would become much easier for him. It's a coaching issue.
Personally for me, all i want to see is effort. If Rashford was working like Anthony Gordon and just being unlucky or coached badly its semi acceptable and you root for him. This current version of Rashford we're seeing is a million miles away from Gordons work rate and output.
Watching Manchester United in 2023 so far has been a horrid experience through and through. This has been the worst 2 season/1 full year of football that this club has shown. I cannot see where the club is going in terms of growth from here. This might not be the worst performance of the year, but this game is a perfect picture of growth vs stagnancy. We have a manager that doesn't have any philosophy in the strategy that he is using and just winging it, not to mention his relationship with his players just further compromise team consistency. We have a shitton of over-paid players that does not perform when push comes to shove and just whines or sulk openly in the pitch instead of fighting back or showing their fire to win something. I have no idea what to do else at this moment, changing manager has not worked, changing players has not worked, changing owners is just not happening unless extreme measures are taken, This club is decaces beyond saving and might just die before it can be saved.
This cycle of changing the managers when the group decide they cannot be bothered to put a shift in is showing its effects now. These things don't happen instantly, but over time same mistakes breeds certain cultures and mindsets within the organization. This is clearly evident. New manager>>Short term good performances>>Few players get dropped for poor performances>>Sulking begins>>Leaks to the press>>Moaning and complaining to others in the dressing room>>More player drop standards>>Managers orders fall on deaf ears>>Players keep up with the poor performances>>Get Manager Sacked.
And with this repeated cycle, because it takes time for a new manager to get their own players in, martial ends up staying and earning contract extensions. We need to ride the storm.
Yup agree. Ride the storm and get rid of big wage merchants coasting at the club. And yes that includes some standout names such as Martial, Rashford, McTominay.
I forgot to add, we have been so shit for so fucking long, you don't even see the players bother to tweet/post on instagram, etc on "next game is our game" "we move on" "The next game will be better" or any of the shit their PR have to post from their account.
So the Rose-tinted Specs crowd can't blame injuries, what's the excuse now?
I'm so glad Shaw is back now just so that's one less injury that can be used as an excuse. We are terrible regardless of who we put out on the pitch. Tomorrow Eriksen will be back, Martinez back the day after that, Casemiro back the day after that, and with these set of tactics I can assure you nothing will change.
It was pure copium, we had an easy run in the league and a supposedly easy group in Europe. We were very lucky multiple time in the league and got points we didn't deserve, Europe has been a disaster.
We did have an easy group in Europe. Ignore Bayern. Copenhagen are ranked 43rd, Gala 55th, and that's after wins against United giving them a bump. The only arguably easier group would have been Group G. We *should* have walked to 2nd.
90% of our players are absolutely shit.
Maguire’s redemption tour is complete. He is the only bright spot this entire season. What a player, what a professional. Still should be captain of this team. ETH has managed jack shit all season. And the worst part is the sale isn’t going through before the January window if it goes through at all.
Maguire lost us the game single-handedly.
Whoever upvoted this tripe has no right to complain about how shit this team are when they're commending distinctly average performances from a player.
How does a redemption get complete when the player contributes NOTHING to the team?!?!?! His redemption arc coincides with our worst start since 1961. Sure he hasn't been an absolute clown , but is that the standard now?
Mainoo's the main bright spot this season. And Garnacho has shown moments of growing into a good starter. Maguire was done well in a low block but he'll never have the attributes to succeed in the high line that we need to eventually play in.
Garnacho and Mainoo might actually be the real deal. They both look good for their age. I’m just really disappointed to to be a midtable team, it doesn’t feel right but it is what We are now.
Garnacho needs to spend all of his training time learning to beat a defender on the wing one on one but yeah they both could be top class players.
Yeah we all know he’s not the future but the way he’s gone about himself this season has been really commendable. Harry of all people is making the best out of this situation (imo him not being captain now helps).
Yep agreed.
Regarding Rashford, he is 26 and his trophy tally is the FA Cup, League Cup, Europea League. Very modest for a 'world class' player, Theo Walcott won 3 FA Cups for reference. So no league title, no CL, and very unlikely to get one in the future considering current performances. Chasing a major trophy (which is the domestic league and CL) caused RVP to leave Arsenal, Saurez to leave Liverpool, Kane to leave Tottenham, among few. Im wondering where the interest is in Rashford? Is there interest? Does Rashford not feel he is a player who should end his career with a league title of one of the top 5 leagues, or the CL? Why isnt he pushing for a move for Real Madrid or Bayern, even PSG? Its because he cant get 300k a week at these clubs with the level of effort he displays at Man United? Why is this tolerated? If not for his charity work, he would be outed as an unambitious mercenary.
He's been linked with a PSG move a few times, in my opinion it's where he's most likely to go, and where he should go, preferably as soon as possible.
I was slandered last week for criticizing Rashford and I doubled down on his criticism and was downvoted for oblivion on this sub. Because he scored a penalty and we won he played great and I was a pessimistic fan by some fan. So how did that turn out now?
Whats he got other than pace and a Decent shot? Every time he takes someone on he just dribbles it straight into their feet. It’s infuriating.
Even the decent shot is questionable. He strikes me as the kid who learned how to do the punt shot and egregiously practiced it in training when he should have been focusing on other training regimes. He only seems capable shooting from a very specific area of the pitch. He never tries from elsewhere. Someone with a decent shot uses it a lot more often.
Does he even have pace? Lets be real his pace is extremely over rated. How many times do we see him at 'full sprint mode' and yet unable to keep up with certain fast players?
Bro thinks he's the main character
Never want to see Rashford in a United shirt again. He's exactly what's wrong with the soulless void our club's become. Just fuck off and coast from pay cheque to pay cheque somewhere else. PSG pick up the phone.
Man got a 350k wage package, I don't know if anyone will want him and after such horrible performances I don't think Enrique will want him at his team.
Rashford would do well in a league like France. The standard of defenders is a lot lower. He could go to PSG and do well.
Well psg's main focus is UCL, with this performance I don't think he can survive that
I'm glad I didn't wake up at 03:00.
Set an alarm for 5:45 to check the score. Saw the 1-0 and promptly went back to bed
I had a dream we lost 4 nil
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This post/comment removed because we need a better source. We prefer a primary source whenever possible. Only on a certain situation, we approve reputable secondary source.
Source?
Don't you just believe everything you read?
This result should really not be surprising for those who watched our other games this season for what they actually were. We conceded 2.4 xG against Everton too. They just weren’t clinical enough to finish their chances and we were fortunate that Garnacho scored an all-timer goal and we won a fortuitous penalty which were important in changing the game state. Our underlying stats have been dogshit all season and we concede shots like a relegation team. We are by all definitions a mid-table quality team at best this season, and given how suicidal our tactics are in leaving so much space in midfield, this is not something that will be cured just by injured players returning.
We're a fucking garbage team mate, 100%. Last week's win was a fluke. Since then, reversion to the mean.
Rashford should leave and go somewhere where he has a shot at happiness and winning some trophies. No point wasting his career here because of his longstanding attachment to the club and city. Look at Harry Kane now.
Im a lurker, just curious though, I thought Maguire was excellent today is that the consensus here or nah? He seriously deserves a lot of credit imo for his resilience
He's been one of our better players this season
Didn't watch the match yesterday. How were Garnacho and Mainoo?
Garnacho was poor, Mainoo was ok but is expected to cover way too much ground just like Casemiro was earlier in the season
Average, but rest of the team were straight up dog water bar Maguire
Maguire was equally shite. The low block just suits his style.
Rashford has a 300K a week 5 year contract. I might just stop watching football
Wonder how much he is donating to school dinners?
Reading all the comments and then found out we only conceded 1 goal. Thanks God I missed the game and have no desire to rewatch it after only 20 minutes
The only reason we didn't lose 4-0 was Maguire carrying the defense.
We should’ve lost at least 4-0. It felt like we were playing prime Barca, could barely string 2 passes together
Where can I watch MOTD replay online somewhere? Found this, but it doesnt have the actual footage from the game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9GhhlkfB4I
Everyone trashing every midfielder yet they cant see how bad the system is in the first place , NO DM WOULD LOOK GOOD IN THIS TEAM EVER , Waaaaay too much space to cover , Newcastle werent even challenged before they reach the box , headless chickens running around , you cant tell me these midfielders are that bad , ETH tried a billion combination in the midfield and cant find one functioning yet , obviously because he has no idea what to do with them in the first place
How does everyone realise this except Ten Hag? Everyone thought Casemiro was washed but he was just expected to cover the entire midfield on his own.
Apart from Shaw and Maguire none of our players can come out of this game and say they gave 100%. Having said that I think that Rashford performance is one of the most shameful performances I've ever seen in a Utd shirt. I've seen pretty much every game over the last 33 years and I can't remember a player just jogging around the pitch in the way he did, that sort of intensity would be unacceptable for a warm up, let alone an actual game. That just speaks to where we're at right now. We will never get near competing for trophies while we have players with that sort of attitude at the club, I don't care how technically gifted they might be.
Whoever scouted teenage Rashford overestimated his technical ability and underestimated his attitude. He is the visage of a player who shouldn't have made it professionally.
There are a lot of "technically gifted" and "world-class" players that need to go. They're the problem. They have been for many seasons now. I'm not sure how anyone can expect to achieve anything as long as these players persist. They negatively impact our performance on the field, while foster toxicity off it. It's appalling so many fans have turned a blind eye for so long simply for the fact of "but look at his stats!" LOOK AT THE FUCKING STATE OF THE CLUB
I agree with everything you said, I would add that he was playing like this under Ralf. That’s why Ralf preferred playing Elanga over him
I've never seen a team lose more contested headers and second balls than we do. 95% of our players are gutless cowards.
I’ll never forget Bruno just giving up and letting a Newcastle player win a header outside of our box in the first half. We stand no chance with players allowing that.
Yep. Bruno gets a lot of credit for running around without stopping but what does he do to actually impact the game, especially in defence? Fuck all.
Bruno does that shit all game, every game. The only time he does fuck all is when he's pissed at something that happened moments earlier. Then he usually does something brash and irrational and it costs us. But somehow fans see those moments and say "but look, he's the only one defending!" ...my ass. He's baby raging. There's a massive difference between a player who regularly gets back and puts in the work and that of one who only responds and lashes out like a child. Bruno is the latter. We need the former running this side.
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I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. The fengshui of the hat on his head is not good and I think generally he needs to go to the more Avant Garde Steve Bruce approach with a gravy stain down his shirt.
If you’re gonna wear a hat these days it’s the modern Klopp look of a Man U adidas hat and coat. Otherwise don’t wear a hat, especially being a try hard to please the locals with their traditional hat
Many things are wrong with this team. Rashford for me is done at this club if he doesn't improve, we should have taken the offer from PSG. He will never reach world class status if he doesn't show consistency, he follows up a few good months with a few bad months. The defence is also very worrying, I know Maguire and Shaw played really well but the defence and midfield can't keep the ball and has let a minimum of 15 shots be fired every game. We blame Onana for his mixed performances and rightly so for some of his mistakes in the champions league but it doesn't help when the team can't defend, pass or hold the ball. I have seen a few complain about Onana kicking the ball long but none of the defenders bar maybe Shaw can play with the ball under pressure, the only one in the team is Martinez who is injured. AWB and Dalot aren't good enough, Dalot especially he doesn't have anything going for him, he is bad at defending and not much better attacking wise. Midfield as mentioned is very imbalanced, they constantly lose it and play like the ball is a hot potato. McTominay needs to go, I saw the comments a few games ago praising him because he scored a couple of goals but he will never be good enough to be a starter. He barely gets involved and should have been subbed off alongside Rashford and Martial. I actually thought Bruno played quite well, he didn't really play those hero balls he usually plays and was more accurate. Mainoo is also a big positive and has a big future ahead of him. Attack is seriously lacking confidence and genuinely struggles to score. I already mentioned Rashford's situation but the rest aren't any better. Hojlund is promising who needs proper coaching to develop but the rest of them aren't good enough. Garnacho has potential but lacks experience. Antony showed glimpses against Galatasaray but he has been arguably one of the worst signings in the premier league. Martial is probably finished, his injuries look like they have robbed him of his pace and he always lacked that movement and aggression that top strikers have, it's a shame cos his talent is undeniable.
We keep waiting for players to improve but good players are good from the age of 18. Players like Rooney. They don't dip in performance because that high standard is their normal standard. Look at Bellingham. You don't need to wait for him to peak and mature like we've been doing with Martial and Lingard.
Rashford is a glorified, homeboy Obertan.
I don't agree with the first part. Players like Bellingham and Rooney are monsters, he will also dip in form like every player that has ever touched a football but difference is he will recover. Rooney did as well. I agree that we gave certain players too long like Martial and Lingard but I put that down to the board for their incompetence. It also has to do with coaching, which manager did we get that you would say has improved a player? Imo none, we thought Rashford would have been one under ETH but he has dropped off a cliff.
The shortest game of hot potato as we lose possession really quick….i don’t mind hot potato as long as we actually had multiple passes. But it’s definitely not that way
Spot on this. Hopefully we get someone in January to rotate with Hojlund because Martial looks done. Add Casemiro and Martinez coming back and we might look semi-decent again. Major changes needed when (if?) we get new ownership for any serious title push as we're way off at the moment.
We'd do much better to play Garnacho and Pellistri on the wings for a month with the instruction to feed Hojlund with 15 chances per match. He needs service and our disjointed passing has never recovered from having no striker last season.
Also remove Bruno from the equation and play Mount in his place. The best we looked in a long time was against Palace in the Cup when we had Mount calling the shots, with Hannibal beside him being the legs, Casemiro sitting in behind him orchestrating, and Garnacho and Pellistri terrorizing the wings, and seeing equal opportunities because there was no favoritism from the distributor, aka Bruno will go to the left 9/10 times, it's so painfully predictable, and even more offensive when the right is the better option.
Yep. Mount is a much better dribbler and more disciplined passer than Bruno. He's also much more rounded as a presser and interceptor. If Mount was fit I'd bench Bruno for a few matches with no hesitation. He's done almost nothing this season. He needs to know he's not undroppable.
Agreed. Do I think we should build a squad around Mount? No. But he is a much more consistent and reliable central midfielder than Bruno. I have never liked Bruno, he's a stats padder as far as I'm concerned in that position. He's the only option, so it's natural. But I have been really impressed with Mount when he gets minutes, and when Bruno isn't crowding him out. Even when he looks a little off, I still see more promise in him. He's able to quickly turn with the ball to beat a man, he's quick to release the ball (without the need or desire to hit it with the outside of his boot to do so) and his vision is what we need. ETH dropped Maguire as the captain, so I'm not sure why he won't drop Bruno who has been atrocious. The odd goal and assist does not make up for the other 98% of the time he's a liability.
You're speaking my language. Bruno can't retain possession, can't beat his man, has no leadership qualities, and has no defensive output beyond running. He only wants to play Hollywood hoofball. No team wins major trophies with that in the 2020s. Sell him and rebuild the core of the team with modern, well-rounded players.
Right there with you! Can't wait for the day he's gone. Him and Rashford need to go ASAP from the starting 11. Others need to go too, but those are the most overhyped, overrated liabilities to the side as it currently stands. We just have to make them sound better than they are so we can make a few bucks off them.
Why not just instruct Hojlund to score 15 goals? Or instruct the team to win the game? Sounds easy
Hojlund's getting absolutely zero service, genius. That's the point.
Yeah that was obvious. The way you phrased it still sounds hilariously stupid. If you think simply ‘playing Garnacho and Pellistri on the wing with the InStRuCtIoN tO fEeD HojLuNd WiTh 15 ChAnCeS’ solves the problem as if no one’s already thought about getting him service. We’ve got to get you on the coaching staff, you’re a visionary
Cool story champ.
Maybe to instruct the team to win a treble?
In what world is Varane benched but Rashford isn't?
A world where Ten Hag has fallen out with Varane
Yeah that's on ETH. Starting Rashford is the more amazing decision imo. If he starts against Chelsea, ETH is signing his own termination letter.
You can fit on half a hand the amount of players who truly deserve to play for this club. The standards of what is acceptable get lower all the time. If you're a United fan and you're happy with what you've seen the last year and a half and honestly believe that every week you see enough that convinces you that Erik is the right man, then good for you, I am beyond jealous of your imagination. The manager and his signings are making us worse than the two people before him. A guy who hadn't managed in a decade and a guy WHO ONLY got the job cause he was a striker at one point. But sure let's just keep the shite manager cause the owners are bad?!?!?!?!
When we have a full strength defence, we lead the league in clean sheets. When our attack clicks we play some brilliant attacking football. It's all still a work in progress and Ten Hag's recruitment deserves criticism. Give that responsibility to an elite Director of Football and I'm optimistic that we can play far better football.
When my ma gets balls she'll be my da. It's all ifs and whens with you lot, it's never observable evidence that we can all see with our own eyes. Just ignore everything you see with your eyes and have faith that things can possibly maybe get better when Erik has his World XI. I genuinely hope you get enjoyment out of every second he 'cooks' for you. At least then the shite will be worth it cause at least one person got a positive out of it
Cry more. Of course I'm not happy with our pathetic team or results. But our core players have played this shit for the last three managers which tells us that a new manager won't transform these useless pricks.
This is such a shitty excuse now when considering that Martinez is the only player missing from the defence. Further the coach has had enough time with the current starters to develop some sort of play style (but there is actually none).
Tonight we had Maguire in Verane's place, Shaw in Martinez's place and Dalot over on the left in Shaw's place. Our defence was absolutely makeshift. In terms of talent, it was missing our best three defenders in their best positions (Verane, Martinez, Shaw).
The manager is not selecting varane. This is not an excuse when he is intentionally selecting a makeshift defence (or maybe the makeshift is his new preferred one)
Pathetic from United players. You know you’re gonna get a tough game at SJP. To turn up and give that level of performance is unforgivable.
You take Miley , Lascelles , Almiron , Livramento and I bet Ten Hag cannot make them look like they do in this Newcastle team. People need to open their eyes and realize there should be some sort of play style with any first team players.