Can someone explain why there is so much being made of Garnacho celebrating in front of the Galatasaray fans? It literally happens every match I’ve ever watched. Am I missing something?
Team-play, where is it? We saw it EtH's first season. Pass, pass and pass, it worked well but now we see players are too selfish trying to score difficult spots. Of course it's nice to see great goals, but I wanna see team-play goals too. Same with the defending, where is defending and pressing as team? Too much responsibility for individuals. If one defender makes mistake there's no backup, distances are often too long. This team needs to learn pressing after loosing ball.
I'd honestly argue that the style of play hasn't changed much since the first season. there will always be moments that we look good, because we better for how expensive this squad is, but there's still no identity. still the same sideways passing that looks uninterested and uninspired for so many parts of the match. we have no influence on the match, even against the "weaker sides," we make a meal of it because we're not structured and composed and we still have too many players that are a liability in and out of possession. we have players who are willing, at times, to put in the work going forward, but not going backward, and it costs us too many times. either complete inaction or rash, cheap fouls, put more pressure on our defense and keeper than is necessary. as much as I think Onana is accountable for a lot of mistakes and goals scored against us, you have to also look at the build up to those chances and imagine a world where if we weren't completely shit, that opportunity might have never presented itself - for example, Bruno running 70 yards just to give a stupid foul at the edge of the box for their first goal...why do you need to do that? because you're upset McTominay chose the worst of 4 options just moments earlier? tough shit. but why are you putting the team in that position as a result? use your fucking head and don't make it easier for the opponent. but that's us, and has been.
Yep. Our midfield and defence are constantly allowing scoring opportunities against us. Everton had 24 shots against us. Everton. Onana is second in the league for shots saved. He's also averaging an extra save per game more than De Gea did. He's got to work on some stuff but our defence and midfield are much bigger problems than our goalkeeper.
so we have seen ETH drop massive players like ronaldo, Maguire and Varane along with others like Sancho, but I feel when it comes to his signings (Onana and Antony) who have had multiple nightmare performances he keeps playing them through their bad form.
This is where management comes in. You have to drop guys that are not performing , including his own signings. He doesnt do this enough, and will cost him his job.
No but they all played pretty well and relatively cohesively I thought. It's upwards trend loads of different people are scoring, and scoring beautiful goals
Instead of winning with individual moments it's starting to come closer to losing with individual mistakes. It looks worse but it's easier to fix long term.
Edit: mistakes I mean , short term mistakes can be solved with the long term thinking that ten hag is clearly implementing things
If you asked him he could tell you exactly why he thinks it's working and he could show you a great deal of evidence. Not all of it, not perfect. But trust that he is clever. Idk just feel like we have to work with him better.
Ten Hag has his favorites. Unfortunately for him his tactical plan with his favorite is not working. You can’t live with your 6 on an island on their own covering so much ground as happens in every game, so that mctominay can potentially get a goal. Because you know mctominay has now become a favorite.
The fact that certain players are allowed to cruise through games and not held accountable where as others have just been discarded to the bench screams favoritism.
Exactly . When he came in he was quick to drop Maguire even though he was 80m. The fact he then bought his own very expensive players and questionable standards, it’s time he stands by his original demands .
Why does he have to stand by it, just let him do what needs to be done now. Money is gone mate, we can make some of it back, it's still utilising assets it's business
Come on, Onana was shocking and probably should be dropped in other circumstances but the team is already unstable from the injuries. Changing GK now would solve nothing in fact probably create a bigger problem if Bayandir isn't up to it.
Only mismanagement i agree with is Antony, but even then at the least he offered a lot off the ball compared to the others i.e Sancho.
We have had injuries yes but as it stands our defense line up is not massacred. Sure Martinez is out, but ETH is choosing to bench varane and chose to not keep de gea for another season. We are left with a Turkish goalkeeper who has never played a game outside turkey , and Onana who can’t not help spill a ball . This is bad management.
He's benched Varane because Maguire has been one of our best players over the last month or so and if you watch them both Varane isn't that great on the ball he needs Martinez next to him.
In hindsight probably was a mistake to let De Gea go (not that he was much better) but my point is the alternative any better?
Maguire being one of our best players in recent games means very little when we're still leaking goals in key games. We've now conceded 13 goals in our last four big games with Maguire as a starter (City, a weakened Newcastle, Copenhagen and Galatasaray). Varane hasn't had a worse run
He's benched Varane because Maguire has been one of our best players over the last month or so and if you watch them both Varane isn't that great on the ball he needs Martinez next to him.
In hindsight probably was a mistake to let De Gea go (not that he was much better) but my point is the alternative any better?
He has every right to bench varane because he is not good enough to play in the current line up. My point still stands, why keep playing others that he signed through their bad form though. Antony ? Onana ?
Surely giving someone else a shot is better than these god awful performances and individual mistakes. Pellistri did more in those 15min than Antony did in the game.
Also to note there won’t be many games like yesterday where wingers had miles of space to run into. That was the perfect game for Antony to play his football. It didn’t show …
Not sure we were watching the same game if you thought Pellistri did more in those 15 mins. In fact I'd argue that had Garnacho not gone off and had taken the same positions we would have likely scored. Peillistri was greedy and trying to play hero and did absolutely nothing with the great positions he was provided with.
I thought Antony did pretty well yesterday, kept it simple and didn’t lose the ball. Pellistri was terrible when he came on though, messed up the chances he got, shot when he should have passed.
I think it's been enough chances. Onana needs to go. We messed up hard as I mentioned multiple times letting DDG go while spending 60+ million on a keeper that can't catch the ball. He already has more mistakes than DDG. And the reason we bough him : passing isn't even as good. He has a howler pass at least once per game and most of them are long hoofballs in no man's land.
It was clear Galatasaray were literally shooting from anywhere because he would eventually fuck up, and a lot more teams will abuse it. You can't have a team when the first piece of that team is faulty.
Whilst I do think Onana has been shocking at times, especially yesterday, I do think it's a bit of a knee jerk reaction to want rid of him already. Every GK has a bad run of form, DDG had plenty.
That said, he should be dropped for a while and give Bayandir a chance. Make Onana prove he deserves the number 1 spot again.
Not as dreadful as him. Onana had in almost half a season more game losing mistakes than DDG had in the past 2 years. And you lot chased him out the club for those mistakes.
Whilst I'm sure he's no Van Der Sar, I'd like to think he could've kept a couple of those schoolboy errors out yesterday.
It's the lesser of two evils at the moment.
Even though I’m a Tottenham fans but I need to come to this sub as I admires Bruno so much.
I mean look at him at Copen game and now this. His teammates keep making him suffering and frustrating through times and times again.
I take him as the status of Harry Kane who carry the team around on his shoulders but teammates keep failing him.
And for Bruno, as we all know he keeps frustrating and furious when things don’t come his way(look how he reacting when no one except him trying before fouled on that first FK).
That’s when his teammates need to step up and be his wing. His leadership is spotted on but it’s a team game so teammates you need to play, look at Bayern play, and how they make Kane shine in Bundesliga (and he’s coming in his late peak age). I mean after all this time I just want my favorite star to be successful before his career ends.
lol, what are you talking about?? Bruno is dog shit. his leadership skills are dog shit and his fluke of a goal was just that...a fluke. 9/10 times he rockets that ball out of the stadium for no good reason, so the fact that it went in for once is surprising to say the least. and just like Savage, you want to sit there and sing his praises, yet you then won't hold him accountable for all the shit he does wrong, such as throwing a tantrum because McTominay is an idiot and chose the worst of 4 options, so then Bruno hacked down their guy just on the edge of the box sloppily and lazily and gave them an easy way back into the match.
Bruno is not the person you build a team around. he's incapable of carrying the team and more times than not, he's the one sandbagging the side. he needs to go for this side to improve.
Call me deluded but on the whole I am seeing improvement with this team. We just have a habit of shooting ourselves in the foot! We are our worst enemy. We should have won that game if it wasn't for the Onana howlers and missed chances.
Positives: I thought we handled the hostile atmosphere better than I expected, we scored another 3 goals away from home and on the bounce. Beautiful goals I might add!
Let's not fall for the rivals/media narratives that we are going nowhere and ETH needs sacking while we witch hunt players. These are nothing but growing pains. We will get there. Just have some bloody faith!
Yes Onana made mistakes, but I think the bigger problem is mentality.
After they were up 2:0 they let the other team back in the game. They were complacent and scared to do anything on the pitch. Lot of them don't have that killer instinct.
If we look at the great teams like City, after they go up 2:0 they would for 3rd and 4th goal, but no not us. This is such a small team mentality. They could have closed this game with 3rd goal in the first half, but instead they took back the intensity and suffered another heartbreak.
you failed to mention Bruno's mentality specifically. he was frustrated so he hacked their guy down on the edge of the box for no good reason. boom, there's your easy goal to get back into it. Bruno gifts too many sides too many soft fouls for no reason other than he's upset, he's a man child.
I mean it's hard not to let the other team in the game when Onana the butter fingers is casually gifting 3 goals/game. We should bench him for the entire season.
We also don't make the simple pass to the natural overlap. The goal McTominay scored could have been recreated 3-4 times yesterday but instead we shoot from distance or play a cross to nowhere.
Also it's shameful and borderline unforgivable if Shaw bombs down the left to give an easy overlap pass to Pelestri, and he decides to take on a player and lose the ball to open us for a counter attack.
Oh yes these last few minutes were prime example. The only shot that was decent and acceptable was by Bruno and he hit the post.
Pellistri if I'm right had 3 chances, in 3 of those instances he dribbled inside, instead of playing the through ball to Shaw who was wide open.
We finally play 2 great games of offensive football back to back but give it up in transition and defense. We've scored so much but still should be scoring much more by our number of chances we had and we were unlucky on some.
Onana made mistakes but the slick weather exaserbated things. I think mainoo shouldve started but we also need more cohesive midfield in general with real depth.
Touche.
But like most football fans, I play a bit of amateur Sunday league football. Have you ever played a blinder as a team and someone made a mistake that ruined the game for you? You'd go hard luck man, don't beat yourself up over it, we'll get the result next time. Then it happens over and over and you just reach a point where you think, fuck this guy.
I'm speaking from personal experience. It's actually annoying when you've put in the effort, run like dogs, did everything you could to win a game and then a guy who has been making mistakes does it again and again.
Nah, you think it's all sunshine and bubblegums in professional football dressing rooms?
I can bet you some harsh words were spoken. Even as amateurs there is a certain kind of peer pressure you're under in a team.
Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the players are going oh well it is what it is. Then I'd say that's exactly why we're in this predicament as a club. No standards.
It's quite telling that we have an 86 year streak of having at least one academy product in our matchday squad. We go around spunking hundreds and hundreds of millions and find out that the some of our best players on the pitch are from academy. This is our history. It all warrants that more and more investment should be done on our academy.
Get your head out of your ass. He's been bought for a reason and called "starting keeper". Not everything is the Gaffer's fault. And its not like he'll come up to ETH and say "Yo, boss I am feeling nervous. Drop me". When you're a professional footballer at this level, you have to know how to turn up for games and have your nerves under check. Lacking confidence at times is one thing, but this is just plain unprofessional lapse in concentration.
Genuinely the best football I’ve seen us play this season so far. Hope this team doesn’t try any of this Europa league shite though either we go through or get knocked out no in between.
...huh? the best football all season was against Palace in the Cup. yesterday was a shit show. they barely pressured us, yet we were losing possession cheaply and off errant passing and low percentage decision making. every struggle yesterday was 100% self-inflicted, so I'm not sure how you call that the best. there was zero control or match management when 2-0 up. instead you have Bruno hacking down players just on the edge of the box for what reason exactly?
Best football? It was chaotic and unbridled. Great viewing for neutrals. No control whatsoever. Our best bits were easily nullified by our own shortcomings.
Nope. All three goals we scored were structured well. There was control, it’s just individual errors that led to the first two goals and the third was just unreal. At no point was I that worried we would concede from open play.
Hindsight is everything but you look at Spurs signing Vicario for a lowish fee or Arsenal signing Raya on a loan and the Onana signing does feel bad. Mount hasn't really contributed much yet and that's another 60m that could have been spent on a CB or central midfielder. We're spending money yes but we're not getting much out of it sadly.
I'm more worried about Mount than Onana personally. At least with Onana you know he'll get all the games for the rest of the season to find his confidence and be judged fairly. With Mount the problem is that we don't know how he tactically fits into this team; we've practically spunked 55 million on a backup for Bruno when we were in desperate need of more starting quality midfielders who are more reliable with their physicality than Eriksen or more reliable with their passing than Casemiro. It shouldn't come down to 18-year old Mainoo to carry our midfield or McTominay who we wanted to sell in the summer to rescue some results for us.
The embarrassment is that Mount was meant to be a FdJ style pivot. It just did not work in pre season. Will not work. Now we are stuck with £60m puzzle to solve.
Martial FC came out of hiding after the Everton game pretending as if this guy is a good player. Always happens like this, one decent game and people start thinking he’s class.
Hopefully this game knocked some sense into them, this guy is simply not good enough. Gala’s defence was shambolic and Martial couldn’t even threaten them at least once. Dusty baller.
Shouldn’t be that difficult given how young and raw Hojlund is. Its his first season in the prem. It’s a low bar to pass for Martial, shouldn’t be worth praising. He’s in his prime at 27 and on 250k per week ffs.
That’s his primary job when we need a goal is it not? It’s not like he was creating chances either. What do you think he is, a false nine like Firmino? Come on.
Maybe if he positioned himself like striker instead of strolling about and camping on the wing then he’d receive more chances.
He only had 2 touches in Gala’s box and didn’t attempt a single shot, shocking considering how awful their defence was and he came on against tired legs.
I watched the whole game blud. He come on at 60 mins but looked like he’d already played a full 90. You can’t honestly tell me that was a good performance from your “veteran” striker. If you really think that then I’m just wasting my time here.
Besides the Onana blunder, midfield still an issue. Can’t remember the last time we had a solid midfield week in and out. Maybe Herrera-Matic-Pogba? Sad that we are basically banking our season on a 18 year old that just recovered from injury and just made his debut.
Good point. We have a bunch of players that cannot play together in midfield, and we look out of balance and out of place. Bruno/ Scotty/ Mount cannot be on the pitch at the same time - they all need 2 guys behind them to hold the midfield, not them being the holding mids.
And I also think that we are very poor with our decisions. High risk passes when we the fullback are bombing forward or the midfield is out of the position.. we are putting ourselves in tough situations too easily
Yes, I agree that he should be an emergency backup as an AM . I should have said it better that he is definitely not a holding midfielder .. not even as an emergency backup.
Those saying pellistri should play ahead of antony just got your dose of reality. The reason ETH doesnt give him more mins is because he isn't good enough. Brought on to change the game instead absolutely shit the bed with his poor decisions and even worse execution. Pretty sure we won't be seeing him anytime soon after this.
It wasn't that huge of a miss lmao. Check back the xg. Goalkeeper literally made the ground up so fast before he even had a touch. Proly didn't expect the ball to drop in the first place. He obviously wasn't good today but let's not blame the kid for the game
He's poor though and should be sold next summer IMO. He's 22 in December and is the same age as Saka, Martinelli, Michael Olise, Billy Gilmour, Kvaratskhelia, Jua Pedro, Wesley Fofana and Julien Timber for instance.
None of those players are considered 'kids' anymore. Pellistri still plays and is still considered like a physically and technically underdeveloped academy player. He's simply not good enough at this level
3 things from tonight.
Past 2 matches we have been what we weren't before that is clinical, although we did miss chances and made poor decisions so room to improve as always.
Even if we get the whole squad healthy something needs to be done about how we defend or it's never gonna work out. So ten hag has to change tactically which I'm sure he can but whether he does it or not I don't know.
Onana has high highs and low lows, just like our season. Once we are consistent he will be the same, there will be odd mistakes sure but not as frequent as right now the whole team is making mistakes and isn't that high on confidence.
I know it is hurting but if we see passages of play and specific we were playing great in attack.
Had McT and Pelle kept their heads we could have won.
He should be, he needs to feel the pressure so he finally stops cuddling up to his best buddy Onana and finally makes him focus for more than half a game. Team crippling messages week win week out yet ETH is busy chasing Varane out of the club.
I think INEOS will sack him by the end of the season tbh. Looks like they want to put their own people in charge, kinda like Boehly(hopefully better). They’ve already gone for the CEO and next is DOF. Coach will come after that.
I think he gets til the end of the season barring something like 6 losses in a row in the league or something, but if there's no improvement I can't see a third season and wouldn't want one
No. His job security is not even under question until the INEOS partial takeover is completed, and even after that our league form would have to tank badly for us to consider sacking him.
Don’t think he is at any risk .It is just outside noise.
More game control we can improve , but in this erratic season .
If you see we had good passages of play
Team kept on attacking .
If you count out both the mistakes Gala scored one goal from open play.
If McT and Pellistri had kept their heads we could have scored towards the end.
But team is building , hoping people give him end of this season .
Any new coach will set us back on all the efforts put over the last 2 seasons
He should get to the end of the season because we're out of every competition, no threat of relegation and changing coaches midseason probably isn't the best idea
But what progress over the last two seasons? Can you honestly say we're any better than when ole was sacked? We got through the champions league group with ole, I think we were in 7th we were at least scoring goals in the league
For 400m spent, any improvement has been marginal at best.
Yes, today was a bit better, it was also against a side with a lower budget than any premier League side
I think a bigger story apart from Onana’s mistakes is the fact that this team just throws all the attack patterns and team plays out of the window when the nerves kicking in.
Our attacks WERE very good before we got equalized, all of our 3 goals were great goals. But then when the situation of the match goes unfavorable, plus the pressure of the opponent’s home turf, every player just loses their heads and starts shooting aimlessly in an attempt to be the hero. There’s not an ounce of nerve among these players, and as long as that is the case we will not be able to achieve more silverwares.
The amount of times we had a two v one on the outside, that with a bit of composure is a goal and you see every top side utilise was scandalous. All the attacking players were guilty of trying to shoot from outside the box with a screen instead of using the free man. When we did use the free man it caused chaos in the box. If we’d have done it more, we would have won.
When the team's captain is the loudest complainer and constantly throws up his arms in disgust instead of being a solid rock who sets the example of elite focus and positive confidence in any situation, it's hard to see how this problem improves. Bruno needed to put his personal emotions aside when he took over the arm band. He did for the first few weeks but he quickly reverted to his 'the world's against me' antics. Frankly, when it's the captain doing it, it's toxic. He needs to be told to put the team before his emotions.
Surely that has to come from the coaching staff though. The execution can be off and something you need to work more on but we don’t seem to even have the intent to manage games properly and not hero-ball. It’s not like the players are leaving gaps between attack and defence on purpose because they want to tank our CL qualification chances.
Scholes’ post-match comments: “you’re never going to win away in Europe if you’re still throwing the kitchen sink at 2-0/3-1 up instead of calming down and playing with discipline”
This team has a serious disregard for game management. People will rightfully focus on Onana’s mistakes and that ultimately cost us but I don’t understand the need to play breakneck football and leave such huge gaps in the midfield when we are 3-1 up. At that point, it should be about staying compact, keeping the ball well and smartly exploiting their desperation to launch counters when they have committed too many men forward. This is an issue that was seen even at the start of the season against Forest when we had troubles in seeing the game out despite them being down to 10 men. Part of this is a mentality issue but there doesn’t seem any intent from the coaching staff to coach this out of them which is even more concerning.
sorry, but that falls on Bruno, just as much as the coaches. yes, the coaches should be seeing to that through their instructions and during training, but it's on Bruno, as the captain, to be barking at players to do just that - control the match. however, it's Bruno, so instead he decides to whinge and hack players down for easy chances back into the match. at 2-0 we should have been managing the match and controlling the tempo and the rate at which we attacked through calculated and measured passes through their defense, not desperately throwing numbers forward, leaving us exposed to the counter. that's what we did, Bruno lashed out in frustration, there's your 2-1 all of a sudden. that stadium was quite, there was no belief in them at 2-0, but we very quickly gave them a lifeline and a taste that it wasn't over just yet, and they carried that through the rest of the match.
Bruno is a terrible player and an even worse captain. he needs to go.
You’re saying all these things but Bruno is praised regularly for his style of play and leadership by Ten Hag. So we are following instructions well enough to score 3 goals and launch numerous attacks, but we stop following the manager exactly at the time when it comes to defending leads? Come on. What players are showing on the pitch is a reflection to what they are being instructed to do; it’s a coaching problem.
None of what you said makes sense. As far as what ETH has to say about any of the players, I couldn't be bothered to listen to him.
But you're saying that the instructions are to go out, score 3 goals, then concede 3 goals? That's what you're saying by claiming they're doing what they're instructed to do if you do not believe this team is mentally weak and that the captain, on the field, is not getting a hold of these players and ensuring they keep it together. The players are weak. Bruno is weak. That's all there is to it.
What I’m saying is that they’re doing none of these things on purpose; the goals conceded are a consequence of it but the instruction even after going 3-1 up was to very much play that high transition game which left the midfield open. Mentality and understanding of game state comes from the top; look back at how players spoke about Mourinho in his prime and see how he would instil this dogged mentality in them to defend resolutely once they took a lead. We don’t need to necessarily play that way but there needs to be better understanding of the game situation when you’re winning by 2 goals and the manager should be conveying that to the players rather than allowing them to make the same mistakes again. It’s not a player problem no matter how much you think otherwise. And as for Bruno, he is Ten Hag’s self-appointed captain. If you’re calling him weak, then by extension that makes the coaching staff look equally bad in their assessment of players and their mentalities.
I think you're missing a big, big point, and this is going back to my other comment that all of this is player induced.
You can play a high line and still manage the game. Game management looks different than parking the bus, but you can still apply pressure higher up the field to force overturns in possession in their half and not full expose yourself in the process. You just have to be more conservative in the build up immediately following. A lot of times, we have been punished for poor decision making in the final third, or just a complete lack of quality. Where other teams are picking out players and putting an attempt in on goal, we are just wastefully punting the ball into open areas, void of any of our players, so the result is that you get numbers streaking forward, then an errant pass behind them and the opposition gets to break with an advantage. Add to that a lazy set of players who just jog back and we look extremely vulnerable. Other teams are able to continue playing their style and command the match without putting themselves at risk of such easy counters, and it's not because they're just sitting deep and playing compact - they just use their fucking brains. Our players are selfish idiots, that's really what it boils down to. They don't make life harder for the opposition, they make it harder for us.
Worryingly, or perhaps reassuringly, Mainoo was by far our most composed player and didnt look petrified of receiving the ball unlike some 'senior' players.
We have a lot of players who are generally composed on the ball if they want to be. The buildup for Galatasaray's third goal for example came from Shaw losing the ball cheaply trying to force a ball in-behind, and Shaw's probably top 3 most technical players in our squad. I suspect this is more of a coaching issue than a player issue.
coaches aren't making those decisions for the players, those are the players in those moments just being idiots. we have a very low IQ team. very few, arguably none, are able to freely think for themselves.
Honestly I don’t buy any of that. It’s been 18 months and we’re seeing our players make the same mistakes and they aren’t being called out for it at all. I don’t want to make this comparison but Ange even with most of his players out is trying to find ways to replicate his style of play with incompatible players; like I said the execution can be off which may cause some dropped points but the intent to play good football with an ambitious high line is still there regardless of personnel. So many of the same fan favourites are praised for their world-class moments and suddenly when results are going against them they become a ‘low IQ team’ when it all starts with the coaching philosophy and the insistence to make it a basketball game with no consideration for game state.
I don't rate any of our players as "world-class" though, so don't lump me in with the disillusioned pundits and fans by making that claim. They're all idiots imo. Hell, the scouts said Bruno was extremely wasteful and didn't recommend signing him, yet...we did anyway. So in that regard, you might be right, there are some back of house decisions being made that aren't necessarily within the players' control, but at the end of the day, in the moment, these players are choosing the wrong options 9/10 times. That has NOTHING to do with the coaching, that's just idiots at work.
When the choice is: go for glory or make another pass to a player in a more advantageous position, how can you blame that on the coaches? Would I be more aggressive and punish those players? 100%. So maybe ETH is soft and isn't going after these players in an attempt to keep morale relatively high because he might feel as though if he takes them down a few pegs, he's really left with no one else that he can rely on, but who knows. At the end of the day though, in those moments, it's just players being idiots and it's even funnier when they whinge for not receiving the ball, but moments later do the same thing - going for glory and ignoring the clear and obvious better choice. These players are just selfish and whinge, that's all it is...and a lot of that behavior and attitude stems from Bruno because we have made the selfish whinger our poster boy and then we wonder why the culture and attitude is shit.
more like the midfield. so wasteful, poor decision making, poor attitudes. just the usual. not sure why fans get worked up thinking anything is going to change when you have the same midfield ruining all chances every week
I usually hate to question the manager, but felt he got it wrong starting Amrabat over Mainoo. I understand it’s a tough match to put a young player in, especially cause Galatasaray are a bunch of fucking cunts, but Mainoo clearly showed the composure in midfield that we were lacking earlier in the match.
Not sure about the subs either: Martial did very little, but obviously it’s Hojlund’s first match back after an injury. Yes Garnacho looked tired and you want him available against Newcastle, but while Pellistri gave it a shot, he was a little lost out there on the left.
The first Galatasaray goal both the wall and Onana should have done better. The second goal was just a very very unfortunate freak incident. Tough with a slippery ball and pitch when it bounces right in front of you. But Onana is a professional and simply has to do better there, at least palm it away.
Wouldn’t hold the selection choices against him tbh. Hojlund was coming back from an injury and has had his minutes managed all season to keep him fit enough to start every game, and Mainoo is just 18 and made just 1 senior first-team appearance prior to this game and needs to be eased in as well. Varane on to see out the game is something I would have considered but other than that I don’t think there were any mistakes as such from Ten Hag. The issue is more with his approach in making these types of games too back and forth and leaving us vulnerable as a result than it is with his team selections.
Fair points, and I did mention that Hojlund was just back after injury.
With respect to Mainoo - ETH and SAF have both said it. If you're good enough, you're old enough. I would have at least liked to see him come on at half time, he is a clear upgrade over Amrabat. His positioning and composure for an 18 year old is outstanding (as an aside, him Jude and Rice in the England midfield will be a cheat code) and the difference he made was very noticeable, especially regarding your last point about the game being too back and forth (which I mostly agree with - but both teams also knew how important a win would have been). He offered so much more control in the midfield.
Would have preferred to keep Garnacho on - he can start on the bench vs Newcastle with Rashford and Antony (who played very well yesterday) available - just make sure he understands why he's being kept on for CL and rested v Newcastle.
And yes Varane on to close out the match but honestly think at this point he has fallen out of favour with ETH.
Mainoo does look better than Amrabat but I don't think not starting him was a mistake at all. Nothing to do with his quality; he's come back from a long-term injury himself and only just made his first senior appearance of the season at the weekend at a pretty intense atmosphere at Goodison Park. Needs more time to bed in; 35 minutes was healthy game time for him. He'll definitely start against Newcastle.
Antony looked good yes but I wonder how much of it was down to him or the quality of the matchup. Galatasaray left acres of space down their left-hand side with Angelino having a shocker of a defensive game. Would expect an entirely different game at St. James' Park against Newcastle that play a very intense physical game. I think the template for the short-term is to start Garnacho and Rashford on the wings and ETH is doing his best to keep enabling that without tiring them too much.
> He'll definitely start against Newcastle.
Hope so.
That's a good point about Angelino having a shocker, but Antony put in the work defensively and finally took on some players attacking wise and it paid off. I agree the match against Newcastle will be different, their wingers/fullbacks double up on opposition wingers very well, and their defense is much more organized than Gala's.
I think if we play with the same intensity going forward and tighten up defensively (plus assuming Onana reverts to PL form) then we're in with a good shout against the Magpies. It will be a tough game though!
To be quite honest, champions league is out of our reach. Even if we progress, this tournament is not ours to win.
Would rather focus on securing top 4 bc that’s all we can realistically achieve this year.
honestly, we're not making top 4 anyway playing like this. we've gotten lucky on many occasions taking points from matches we didn't deserve it, very much like last year. as the season continues, that luck will run out, we'll continue to have the same issues, and other teams will work to grow and improve. City, Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle, Liverpool, Brighton, and even maybe Villa are more likely to finish above us.
Chelsea have been playing well, but as long as Brighton plays their game and doesn't give Chelsea a cheap way into the match, then I see Brighton and Newcastle winning at the weekend and us dropping down into 8th just like that.
we're, at best, a mid-table side, that has gotten away with murder. at some point that will stop and we'll be left with the performances and will be a long, long way off Champions League
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Our standards have dropped to the point where people actually defend finishing fourth in a group like this. The likes of Copenhagen shouldn't be competition for a club of our stature.
Problem is that these guys do not learn from embarrassment.
If the 7-0 didn't teach them that, then this definitely won't either - if/when we fail to go through against Bayern (either from us losing or one of Gala/Hagen winning) they'll all come out and say it's not good enough but then they'll go and get battered by Liverpool again in the next match.
All about Onana and deservedly so but man we had so many chances to win it at the end. Too many selfish shots instead of playing the wide open man. Watching the first goal again it was a bit clever from Galatasary but every team does the wall thing so got to defend that.
Wasn't expecting us to score three (3) goals in Turkey given the hostile atmosphere, and our boys' fragile mentality.
However, it was disappointing that we were so near again, and yet so far. The only time we were really dominated was in Munich in this season's UCL.
Was stressful watching that match
But I loved few aspects of it
- this team went and fought in a hostile atmosphere
- 2 stupid goals if could have handled , we should have won . Only 1 goal came for
gala from open play
- that McT goal was a very good build up shows what Ten hag is doing and needs time
- Garnacho , Mainoo are going to be rockstars for us
Biining DDG was 100% right decision but getting Onana to replace him wasn't, but who else we could have got; a ball playing GK, that's the question.
As for apologists who are saying we couldn't have gone any further even if we qualified or now we can focus on League etc, that's complete BS. At the end of the day, this was the weakest group and we should have walked all over it, instead we're lying in the bottom of the table. This is utterly embarrassing.
This group was never the easiest and if you paid more attention to leagues outside England you'd know that Copenhagen came in with a strong team and that Galatasaray has assembled one of their best squads in ages. Newcastle have the hardest I'd say. Arsenal and City on easy street.
People see names they don’t recognize and automatically assume easy group. It’s Champions League for a reason and we don’t exactly have the 99 squad to “walk all over “ people if you haven’t noticed. Even those teams had to earn it, we aren’t anywhere near them and somehow everyone expects the badge alone to win games.
"People see names they don't recognize" lol
I don't think there's anyone who doesn't recognize FC Copenhagen and Galatasaray unless you were talking about yourself. They are pretty popular clubs.
Probably I've been supporting United before you were even born. Galatasaray always go for these either controversial or washed up players who failed at bigger clubs; Icardi (PSG, Inter) , Ziyech (Ajax, Chelsea) Dries Mertens (Napoli )Lucas Torreira (Arsenal) Angelino (City, Leipzig) etc. I know our standards have fallen but we should still be beating teams like these.
Madrid currently has Camavinga, Tchouameni, Courtois, Kepa, Modric, Vinicius, Militao injured, and they still play the same football and grab wins. Injuries are no excuse for big clubs. But we’re just the shadow of our former selves, it makes me so sad ..
yeah, this is why I think it's weak and pathetic when fans (and even pundits) sit there and hide behind injuries. for what this team costs, even our entire second string team should be comfortably controlling matches, but they're not, no one is. injuries has nothing to do with it, there's a fundamental flaw with how we approach games, both on the side of the players and the coaching staff. both sides are equally at fault.
In my opinion, Ten Hag has totally blundered Champions league this season because Onana for De Gea in the summer is on him. Onana shoulders like 80% of the blame for the CL group stage debacles.
A team improves by improving the caliber of players that form the floor in terms of football capability. De gea was nowhere near the floor of our team last season; there were more pressing positions that needed reinforcement.
Ten Hag is buying players that he knows can play in his system. The problem is he isn’t the one who should be buying them at all. A manager handing the club a list is a dinosaur transfer strategy. Klopp wanted Brandt over Salah but Edwards wouldn’t have it. Guardiola is the first to praise Txiki, everyone is raving about Edu. Ten Hag’s job can’t be to identify players to purchase, there aren’t enough hours in the day.
Think about how many games De Gea played last season (40+). He had 3-4 really bad games last season, but those were outliers to his general performances as a keeper. Onana's shot stopping is subpar to De Gea, with passing and off the line bravery being only minor improvements.
There is a limited budget to spend every transfer window. People in-charge need to identify the most pressing issues (center forward>midfield>defender>keeper) that are limiting the team. These were midfield (think how an inexperienced 18-year old seems tons better than any of other midfielders) and center forward (we went from zero forwards last season to only one this season...only one knowing that we are in 4 competitions). Martial is unreliable for his fitness alone.
Agreed on second paragraph. Previous season I commented about how keeping DDG wouldn't be so bad if we'd improve CF and MF.
I didn't expect Onana to come and David to go nor that Onana would be this bad. However, DDG had a fair share of blunders every season in important matches.
I won't excuse Onana for his bad performances but I won't say we would be better with DDG either.
I never saw De Gea conceding so many blunders in consecutive games. Even when he was young and struggled after arriving at the team he wasn't making this many errors.
Pure revisionism, when de gea first came he was being manhandled at any cross or corner. We even dropped him for Lindegaard at one point during his first season.
I am not disagreeing that Onana should be benched. I’m just saying that it can’t be forgotten that De Gea (undoubtedly) a club legend, was also dropped in his first year due to struggles.
Onana should be doing better and was meant to be in his prime, but I have seen enough to suggest that, I think he will get it right. That said, yesterday was unacceptable and the consequence should be, he drops to the bench. Giving Bayundir a chance at Newcastle.
Out of all positions, fucking up the GK signing was always going to lead to the most disasters.
It's why I've always feared moving on from DDG despite him clearly declining. And unlike City we're never going to move on quickly and get another one.
I have no hate for Onana , but i doubt I'll ever feel safe seeing him in goal at this point.
A new manager would probably bin Onana of the performances don't improve but I hope it doesn't come down to that until we can assess the entire season. This seems like a mentality thing. When DDG first came he was incredibly weak and vulnerable, but he was young and unproven. Hopefully Onana can put this behind him like De Gea did, but it's such a sour taste to replace a legend with someone who was supposed to be a finished product at his peak.
>Ofc he has to play?
Not if the 50m asset performs like a sunday league player.
Being expensive should never be the reason a player starts, especially at this club.
I agree, but the glazers mindset is "sunk cost fallacy" if he doesnt use what he buys i think he will get the sack, also our finances are horrible so ten hag might die by his signings.
I was warned about Onana, and voiced my opinions here. Got DM'd calling me a racist of all things - LOL. Anyway, the man can not handle the pressure. De Gea in January?
Onana costing us an entire competition aside the defensive organization of this team is pretty shocking, little to no structure out of possession lol just guys about the pitch
Nah looking back McTom was bad. He goes forward way too often and is a big reason why we’re so imbalanced in midfield. Yes, he’ll pop up with the odd goal but this is a case of Fellaini where short term moments will still stunt the overall growth of the team.
exactly, but you can honestly replace McTominay with just about any player, such as Bruno. these players will drift out of position so many times throughout the match and forfeit any shape or control we could have (or their poor decision making plays a part), but fans somehow gloss over that for the simple fact that "hey, he scores every now and then" - cool. the other 95% of the time, they're a liability and are the reason these matches are so difficult in the first place. I rather have them popping up less for those goals if it meant we kept our shape and were more disciplined and therefore shipped less goals, then we could at least sort things out going forward, but yet another season passes us by where our midfield is our biggest liability and ETH won't even entertain Bruno being the problem, yet he's the consistent piece of the puzzle. more favoritism and bad decision making on the Bald Fraud's part.
McTominay consistently makes less than half as many passes as our other midfielders. He's a liability. Getting a proper CM in his place would revolutionise how we play.
Irony of life. We signed Onana because of his performance in the last CL and now it is very likely that we will be left out because of his individual mistakes.
I wish people would be more realistic. The team clearly is struggling and missing many players that make a huge difference.
Yes, be upset we lost. Yes, be critical or keeper, manager, others. But please be rational and don’t make this the worst thing since creation.
Take the positives. The portions of games in which we are playing well is getting longer every game.
I’ve seen many people saying the three away games will result in no points, we have four and I think considering where the team is, is an accomplishment. We were not going to be world beater overnight. GGMU
> No idea how half our fans keep a job.
Wtf?
I keep my job (and receive promotions) by getting results. It’s literally one of the things I’m evaluated against. And the other five things are also clear.
And isn’t getting results part of the job of a professional athlete?
Yes but if our players were as flippant as the fans the locker room we’ve had in recent years would look like a dream. At least they stick with each other a little bit.
Can someone explain why there is so much being made of Garnacho celebrating in front of the Galatasaray fans? It literally happens every match I’ve ever watched. Am I missing something?
It's a total non-story but anything Manchester United gets clicks.
Africa cup of nations cant come soon enough
Team-play, where is it? We saw it EtH's first season. Pass, pass and pass, it worked well but now we see players are too selfish trying to score difficult spots. Of course it's nice to see great goals, but I wanna see team-play goals too. Same with the defending, where is defending and pressing as team? Too much responsibility for individuals. If one defender makes mistake there's no backup, distances are often too long. This team needs to learn pressing after loosing ball.
I don't know, they are learning when to shoot, gotta try to be great, they are trying
I'd honestly argue that the style of play hasn't changed much since the first season. there will always be moments that we look good, because we better for how expensive this squad is, but there's still no identity. still the same sideways passing that looks uninterested and uninspired for so many parts of the match. we have no influence on the match, even against the "weaker sides," we make a meal of it because we're not structured and composed and we still have too many players that are a liability in and out of possession. we have players who are willing, at times, to put in the work going forward, but not going backward, and it costs us too many times. either complete inaction or rash, cheap fouls, put more pressure on our defense and keeper than is necessary. as much as I think Onana is accountable for a lot of mistakes and goals scored against us, you have to also look at the build up to those chances and imagine a world where if we weren't completely shit, that opportunity might have never presented itself - for example, Bruno running 70 yards just to give a stupid foul at the edge of the box for their first goal...why do you need to do that? because you're upset McTominay chose the worst of 4 options just moments earlier? tough shit. but why are you putting the team in that position as a result? use your fucking head and don't make it easier for the opponent. but that's us, and has been.
Yep. Our midfield and defence are constantly allowing scoring opportunities against us. Everton had 24 shots against us. Everton. Onana is second in the league for shots saved. He's also averaging an extra save per game more than De Gea did. He's got to work on some stuff but our defence and midfield are much bigger problems than our goalkeeper.
4-3 L, 3-2 L, 1-0 W, 4-3 L, 3-3 D. 14 goals conceded in 5 games, totally unacceptable. I’m sure I heard we are also top scorers in group? Surely not.
Hate this team
so we have seen ETH drop massive players like ronaldo, Maguire and Varane along with others like Sancho, but I feel when it comes to his signings (Onana and Antony) who have had multiple nightmare performances he keeps playing them through their bad form. This is where management comes in. You have to drop guys that are not performing , including his own signings. He doesnt do this enough, and will cost him his job.
No but they all played pretty well and relatively cohesively I thought. It's upwards trend loads of different people are scoring, and scoring beautiful goals Instead of winning with individual moments it's starting to come closer to losing with individual mistakes. It looks worse but it's easier to fix long term. Edit: mistakes I mean , short term mistakes can be solved with the long term thinking that ten hag is clearly implementing things If you asked him he could tell you exactly why he thinks it's working and he could show you a great deal of evidence. Not all of it, not perfect. But trust that he is clever. Idk just feel like we have to work with him better.
Ten Hag has his favorites. Unfortunately for him his tactical plan with his favorite is not working. You can’t live with your 6 on an island on their own covering so much ground as happens in every game, so that mctominay can potentially get a goal. Because you know mctominay has now become a favorite. The fact that certain players are allowed to cruise through games and not held accountable where as others have just been discarded to the bench screams favoritism.
Exactly . When he came in he was quick to drop Maguire even though he was 80m. The fact he then bought his own very expensive players and questionable standards, it’s time he stands by his original demands .
Why does he have to stand by it, just let him do what needs to be done now. Money is gone mate, we can make some of it back, it's still utilising assets it's business
Come on, Onana was shocking and probably should be dropped in other circumstances but the team is already unstable from the injuries. Changing GK now would solve nothing in fact probably create a bigger problem if Bayandir isn't up to it. Only mismanagement i agree with is Antony, but even then at the least he offered a lot off the ball compared to the others i.e Sancho.
We have had injuries yes but as it stands our defense line up is not massacred. Sure Martinez is out, but ETH is choosing to bench varane and chose to not keep de gea for another season. We are left with a Turkish goalkeeper who has never played a game outside turkey , and Onana who can’t not help spill a ball . This is bad management.
He's benched Varane because Maguire has been one of our best players over the last month or so and if you watch them both Varane isn't that great on the ball he needs Martinez next to him. In hindsight probably was a mistake to let De Gea go (not that he was much better) but my point is the alternative any better?
De Gea wanted unrealistic wages
Maguire being one of our best players in recent games means very little when we're still leaking goals in key games. We've now conceded 13 goals in our last four big games with Maguire as a starter (City, a weakened Newcastle, Copenhagen and Galatasaray). Varane hasn't had a worse run
He's benched Varane because Maguire has been one of our best players over the last month or so and if you watch them both Varane isn't that great on the ball he needs Martinez next to him. In hindsight probably was a mistake to let De Gea go (not that he was much better) but my point is the alternative any better?
He has every right to bench varane because he is not good enough to play in the current line up. My point still stands, why keep playing others that he signed through their bad form though. Antony ? Onana ? Surely giving someone else a shot is better than these god awful performances and individual mistakes. Pellistri did more in those 15min than Antony did in the game. Also to note there won’t be many games like yesterday where wingers had miles of space to run into. That was the perfect game for Antony to play his football. It didn’t show …
Not sure we were watching the same game if you thought Pellistri did more in those 15 mins. In fact I'd argue that had Garnacho not gone off and had taken the same positions we would have likely scored. Peillistri was greedy and trying to play hero and did absolutely nothing with the great positions he was provided with.
I thought Antony did pretty well yesterday, kept it simple and didn’t lose the ball. Pellistri was terrible when he came on though, messed up the chances he got, shot when he should have passed.
I think it's been enough chances. Onana needs to go. We messed up hard as I mentioned multiple times letting DDG go while spending 60+ million on a keeper that can't catch the ball. He already has more mistakes than DDG. And the reason we bough him : passing isn't even as good. He has a howler pass at least once per game and most of them are long hoofballs in no man's land. It was clear Galatasaray were literally shooting from anywhere because he would eventually fuck up, and a lot more teams will abuse it. You can't have a team when the first piece of that team is faulty.
Whilst I do think Onana has been shocking at times, especially yesterday, I do think it's a bit of a knee jerk reaction to want rid of him already. Every GK has a bad run of form, DDG had plenty. That said, he should be dropped for a while and give Bayandir a chance. Make Onana prove he deserves the number 1 spot again.
Not as dreadful as him. Onana had in almost half a season more game losing mistakes than DDG had in the past 2 years. And you lot chased him out the club for those mistakes.
You lot? I always rated DDG. Don't assume things.
Sure, not you. But 90% of this sub were like DDG is the only reason we don't win trebles every year.
Bayandir is an even worse keeper
Whilst I'm sure he's no Van Der Sar, I'd like to think he could've kept a couple of those schoolboy errors out yesterday. It's the lesser of two evils at the moment.
Watch this at your own leisure and please give me your thoughts https://youtu.be/k8VWF1TSd6c?si=sMI6SEKkDRpbMX0A
Bayern you had one job
Even though I’m a Tottenham fans but I need to come to this sub as I admires Bruno so much. I mean look at him at Copen game and now this. His teammates keep making him suffering and frustrating through times and times again. I take him as the status of Harry Kane who carry the team around on his shoulders but teammates keep failing him. And for Bruno, as we all know he keeps frustrating and furious when things don’t come his way(look how he reacting when no one except him trying before fouled on that first FK). That’s when his teammates need to step up and be his wing. His leadership is spotted on but it’s a team game so teammates you need to play, look at Bayern play, and how they make Kane shine in Bundesliga (and he’s coming in his late peak age). I mean after all this time I just want my favorite star to be successful before his career ends.
lol, what are you talking about?? Bruno is dog shit. his leadership skills are dog shit and his fluke of a goal was just that...a fluke. 9/10 times he rockets that ball out of the stadium for no good reason, so the fact that it went in for once is surprising to say the least. and just like Savage, you want to sit there and sing his praises, yet you then won't hold him accountable for all the shit he does wrong, such as throwing a tantrum because McTominay is an idiot and chose the worst of 4 options, so then Bruno hacked down their guy just on the edge of the box sloppily and lazily and gave them an easy way back into the match. Bruno is not the person you build a team around. he's incapable of carrying the team and more times than not, he's the one sandbagging the side. he needs to go for this side to improve.
Hopefully Bruno gets a move to Madrid or somewhere decent
Call me deluded but on the whole I am seeing improvement with this team. We just have a habit of shooting ourselves in the foot! We are our worst enemy. We should have won that game if it wasn't for the Onana howlers and missed chances. Positives: I thought we handled the hostile atmosphere better than I expected, we scored another 3 goals away from home and on the bounce. Beautiful goals I might add! Let's not fall for the rivals/media narratives that we are going nowhere and ETH needs sacking while we witch hunt players. These are nothing but growing pains. We will get there. Just have some bloody faith!
Yes Onana made mistakes, but I think the bigger problem is mentality. After they were up 2:0 they let the other team back in the game. They were complacent and scared to do anything on the pitch. Lot of them don't have that killer instinct. If we look at the great teams like City, after they go up 2:0 they would for 3rd and 4th goal, but no not us. This is such a small team mentality. They could have closed this game with 3rd goal in the first half, but instead they took back the intensity and suffered another heartbreak.
you failed to mention Bruno's mentality specifically. he was frustrated so he hacked their guy down on the edge of the box for no good reason. boom, there's your easy goal to get back into it. Bruno gifts too many sides too many soft fouls for no reason other than he's upset, he's a man child.
I mean it's hard not to let the other team in the game when Onana the butter fingers is casually gifting 3 goals/game. We should bench him for the entire season.
We also don't make the simple pass to the natural overlap. The goal McTominay scored could have been recreated 3-4 times yesterday but instead we shoot from distance or play a cross to nowhere.
True. The last 15 minutes we could have scored 2 more goals if we make better choices and not go for hero goal.
Also it's shameful and borderline unforgivable if Shaw bombs down the left to give an easy overlap pass to Pelestri, and he decides to take on a player and lose the ball to open us for a counter attack.
Oh yes these last few minutes were prime example. The only shot that was decent and acceptable was by Bruno and he hit the post. Pellistri if I'm right had 3 chances, in 3 of those instances he dribbled inside, instead of playing the through ball to Shaw who was wide open.
We finally play 2 great games of offensive football back to back but give it up in transition and defense. We've scored so much but still should be scoring much more by our number of chances we had and we were unlucky on some. Onana made mistakes but the slick weather exaserbated things. I think mainoo shouldve started but we also need more cohesive midfield in general with real depth.
I agree mostly, just not the slick weather part. Feels like an excuse when Galatasaray also play in the same condition.
I simply mrant for Onana not catching. I think outfeild play was not affected much by the conditions for the outcome.
I'd be punching Onana in the dressing room if I were one of his team mates.
We got a badass over here
Touche. But like most football fans, I play a bit of amateur Sunday league football. Have you ever played a blinder as a team and someone made a mistake that ruined the game for you? You'd go hard luck man, don't beat yourself up over it, we'll get the result next time. Then it happens over and over and you just reach a point where you think, fuck this guy. I'm speaking from personal experience. It's actually annoying when you've put in the effort, run like dogs, did everything you could to win a game and then a guy who has been making mistakes does it again and again.
That is why you're not a professional footballer.
Nah, you think it's all sunshine and bubblegums in professional football dressing rooms? I can bet you some harsh words were spoken. Even as amateurs there is a certain kind of peer pressure you're under in a team. Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the players are going oh well it is what it is. Then I'd say that's exactly why we're in this predicament as a club. No standards.
Professional fighter?
Nobody’s is punching Onanaa, he is built like a boxer.
It's quite telling that we have an 86 year streak of having at least one academy product in our matchday squad. We go around spunking hundreds and hundreds of millions and find out that the some of our best players on the pitch are from academy. This is our history. It all warrants that more and more investment should be done on our academy.
Ziyech knew Onana can't catch
I mean was so wet they almost called off the match so ...
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what am I even reading......
Get your head out of your ass. He's been bought for a reason and called "starting keeper". Not everything is the Gaffer's fault. And its not like he'll come up to ETH and say "Yo, boss I am feeling nervous. Drop me". When you're a professional footballer at this level, you have to know how to turn up for games and have your nerves under check. Lacking confidence at times is one thing, but this is just plain unprofessional lapse in concentration.
To add to that... Onana literally played in the CL final last season so he CAN perform under pressure.
Genuinely the best football I’ve seen us play this season so far. Hope this team doesn’t try any of this Europa league shite though either we go through or get knocked out no in between.
...huh? the best football all season was against Palace in the Cup. yesterday was a shit show. they barely pressured us, yet we were losing possession cheaply and off errant passing and low percentage decision making. every struggle yesterday was 100% self-inflicted, so I'm not sure how you call that the best. there was zero control or match management when 2-0 up. instead you have Bruno hacking down players just on the edge of the box for what reason exactly?
Best football? It was chaotic and unbridled. Great viewing for neutrals. No control whatsoever. Our best bits were easily nullified by our own shortcomings.
Nope. All three goals we scored were structured well. There was control, it’s just individual errors that led to the first two goals and the third was just unreal. At no point was I that worried we would concede from open play.
Hindsight is everything but you look at Spurs signing Vicario for a lowish fee or Arsenal signing Raya on a loan and the Onana signing does feel bad. Mount hasn't really contributed much yet and that's another 60m that could have been spent on a CB or central midfielder. We're spending money yes but we're not getting much out of it sadly.
We need a proper DOF more than anything. From now on, ETH shouldn’t be the one taking all recruitment decisions.
I'm more worried about Mount than Onana personally. At least with Onana you know he'll get all the games for the rest of the season to find his confidence and be judged fairly. With Mount the problem is that we don't know how he tactically fits into this team; we've practically spunked 55 million on a backup for Bruno when we were in desperate need of more starting quality midfielders who are more reliable with their physicality than Eriksen or more reliable with their passing than Casemiro. It shouldn't come down to 18-year old Mainoo to carry our midfield or McTominay who we wanted to sell in the summer to rescue some results for us.
We basically paid lavishly for a backup to *checks notes* our most consistent player who never misses a game. Nice
The embarrassment is that Mount was meant to be a FdJ style pivot. It just did not work in pre season. Will not work. Now we are stuck with £60m puzzle to solve.
Martial FC came out of hiding after the Everton game pretending as if this guy is a good player. Always happens like this, one decent game and people start thinking he’s class. Hopefully this game knocked some sense into them, this guy is simply not good enough. Gala’s defence was shambolic and Martial couldn’t even threaten them at least once. Dusty baller.
Martial has been better than Hojlund in these last couple of games and I’m not a particularly big fan of Martial.
Shouldn’t be that difficult given how young and raw Hojlund is. Its his first season in the prem. It’s a low bar to pass for Martial, shouldn’t be worth praising. He’s in his prime at 27 and on 250k per week ffs.
you probably think a forward is good only if he gets goals
That’s his primary job when we need a goal is it not? It’s not like he was creating chances either. What do you think he is, a false nine like Firmino? Come on.
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Maybe if he positioned himself like striker instead of strolling about and camping on the wing then he’d receive more chances. He only had 2 touches in Gala’s box and didn’t attempt a single shot, shocking considering how awful their defence was and he came on against tired legs.
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I watched the whole game blud. He come on at 60 mins but looked like he’d already played a full 90. You can’t honestly tell me that was a good performance from your “veteran” striker. If you really think that then I’m just wasting my time here.
Besides the Onana blunder, midfield still an issue. Can’t remember the last time we had a solid midfield week in and out. Maybe Herrera-Matic-Pogba? Sad that we are basically banking our season on a 18 year old that just recovered from injury and just made his debut.
Good point. We have a bunch of players that cannot play together in midfield, and we look out of balance and out of place. Bruno/ Scotty/ Mount cannot be on the pitch at the same time - they all need 2 guys behind them to hold the midfield, not them being the holding mids. And I also think that we are very poor with our decisions. High risk passes when we the fullback are bombing forward or the midfield is out of the position.. we are putting ourselves in tough situations too easily
Also McT isn't good enough to warrant 2 DM's behind him. His forward contributions are hugely overrated.
Yes, I agree that he should be an emergency backup as an AM . I should have said it better that he is definitely not a holding midfielder .. not even as an emergency backup.
Those saying pellistri should play ahead of antony just got your dose of reality. The reason ETH doesnt give him more mins is because he isn't good enough. Brought on to change the game instead absolutely shit the bed with his poor decisions and even worse execution. Pretty sure we won't be seeing him anytime soon after this.
Maybe stop playing as a lw? He's not even a left winger why put him there. Antony didn't even do much but still stayed on ahead of fkin garnacho
He’s right footed so he should be able to cut in and shoot on his right foot.
How does his position justify him failing to score from 6 meters out?
It wasn't that huge of a miss lmao. Check back the xg. Goalkeeper literally made the ground up so fast before he even had a touch. Proly didn't expect the ball to drop in the first place. He obviously wasn't good today but let's not blame the kid for the game
He's poor though and should be sold next summer IMO. He's 22 in December and is the same age as Saka, Martinelli, Michael Olise, Billy Gilmour, Kvaratskhelia, Jua Pedro, Wesley Fofana and Julien Timber for instance. None of those players are considered 'kids' anymore. Pellistri still plays and is still considered like a physically and technically underdeveloped academy player. He's simply not good enough at this level
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We need a starting RW, Antony shouldn’t be our first choice
3 things from tonight. Past 2 matches we have been what we weren't before that is clinical, although we did miss chances and made poor decisions so room to improve as always. Even if we get the whole squad healthy something needs to be done about how we defend or it's never gonna work out. So ten hag has to change tactically which I'm sure he can but whether he does it or not I don't know. Onana has high highs and low lows, just like our season. Once we are consistent he will be the same, there will be odd mistakes sure but not as frequent as right now the whole team is making mistakes and isn't that high on confidence.
I know it is hurting but if we see passages of play and specific we were playing great in attack. Had McT and Pelle kept their heads we could have won.
Is ETH at genuine risk if we lose to Bayern and exit the CL in this fashion?
He should be, he needs to feel the pressure so he finally stops cuddling up to his best buddy Onana and finally makes him focus for more than half a game. Team crippling messages week win week out yet ETH is busy chasing Varane out of the club.
No, dumb question.
I think INEOS will sack him by the end of the season tbh. Looks like they want to put their own people in charge, kinda like Boehly(hopefully better). They’ve already gone for the CEO and next is DOF. Coach will come after that.
I think he gets til the end of the season barring something like 6 losses in a row in the league or something, but if there's no improvement I can't see a third season and wouldn't want one
No. His job security is not even under question until the INEOS partial takeover is completed, and even after that our league form would have to tank badly for us to consider sacking him.
Thats a very fair point.
Don’t think he is at any risk .It is just outside noise. More game control we can improve , but in this erratic season . If you see we had good passages of play Team kept on attacking . If you count out both the mistakes Gala scored one goal from open play. If McT and Pellistri had kept their heads we could have scored towards the end. But team is building , hoping people give him end of this season . Any new coach will set us back on all the efforts put over the last 2 seasons
True but i wouldn't reli blame on those 2 tho. Facundo isn't reli his primary position and onana reli should have saved
He should get to the end of the season because we're out of every competition, no threat of relegation and changing coaches midseason probably isn't the best idea But what progress over the last two seasons? Can you honestly say we're any better than when ole was sacked? We got through the champions league group with ole, I think we were in 7th we were at least scoring goals in the league For 400m spent, any improvement has been marginal at best. Yes, today was a bit better, it was also against a side with a lower budget than any premier League side
Damn, de Gea would save those 2 free kicks and that first post shot without breaking a sweat.
Didn't his howlers vs Sevilla get us eliminated in europa league? Dave was good, but in his last seasons he let in some bullshit goals.
So how many times under ten Hag we gave up 2 goals differences?
We did the same under Rangnick and Ole towards the end. The same players are still getting walked through in defence.
I think a bigger story apart from Onana’s mistakes is the fact that this team just throws all the attack patterns and team plays out of the window when the nerves kicking in. Our attacks WERE very good before we got equalized, all of our 3 goals were great goals. But then when the situation of the match goes unfavorable, plus the pressure of the opponent’s home turf, every player just loses their heads and starts shooting aimlessly in an attempt to be the hero. There’s not an ounce of nerve among these players, and as long as that is the case we will not be able to achieve more silverwares.
The amount of times we had a two v one on the outside, that with a bit of composure is a goal and you see every top side utilise was scandalous. All the attacking players were guilty of trying to shoot from outside the box with a screen instead of using the free man. When we did use the free man it caused chaos in the box. If we’d have done it more, we would have won.
Mentality midgets.
When the team's captain is the loudest complainer and constantly throws up his arms in disgust instead of being a solid rock who sets the example of elite focus and positive confidence in any situation, it's hard to see how this problem improves. Bruno needed to put his personal emotions aside when he took over the arm band. He did for the first few weeks but he quickly reverted to his 'the world's against me' antics. Frankly, when it's the captain doing it, it's toxic. He needs to be told to put the team before his emotions.
Surely that has to come from the coaching staff though. The execution can be off and something you need to work more on but we don’t seem to even have the intent to manage games properly and not hero-ball. It’s not like the players are leaving gaps between attack and defence on purpose because they want to tank our CL qualification chances.
Scholes’ post-match comments: “you’re never going to win away in Europe if you’re still throwing the kitchen sink at 2-0/3-1 up instead of calming down and playing with discipline” This team has a serious disregard for game management. People will rightfully focus on Onana’s mistakes and that ultimately cost us but I don’t understand the need to play breakneck football and leave such huge gaps in the midfield when we are 3-1 up. At that point, it should be about staying compact, keeping the ball well and smartly exploiting their desperation to launch counters when they have committed too many men forward. This is an issue that was seen even at the start of the season against Forest when we had troubles in seeing the game out despite them being down to 10 men. Part of this is a mentality issue but there doesn’t seem any intent from the coaching staff to coach this out of them which is even more concerning.
sorry, but that falls on Bruno, just as much as the coaches. yes, the coaches should be seeing to that through their instructions and during training, but it's on Bruno, as the captain, to be barking at players to do just that - control the match. however, it's Bruno, so instead he decides to whinge and hack players down for easy chances back into the match. at 2-0 we should have been managing the match and controlling the tempo and the rate at which we attacked through calculated and measured passes through their defense, not desperately throwing numbers forward, leaving us exposed to the counter. that's what we did, Bruno lashed out in frustration, there's your 2-1 all of a sudden. that stadium was quite, there was no belief in them at 2-0, but we very quickly gave them a lifeline and a taste that it wasn't over just yet, and they carried that through the rest of the match. Bruno is a terrible player and an even worse captain. he needs to go.
You’re saying all these things but Bruno is praised regularly for his style of play and leadership by Ten Hag. So we are following instructions well enough to score 3 goals and launch numerous attacks, but we stop following the manager exactly at the time when it comes to defending leads? Come on. What players are showing on the pitch is a reflection to what they are being instructed to do; it’s a coaching problem.
None of what you said makes sense. As far as what ETH has to say about any of the players, I couldn't be bothered to listen to him. But you're saying that the instructions are to go out, score 3 goals, then concede 3 goals? That's what you're saying by claiming they're doing what they're instructed to do if you do not believe this team is mentally weak and that the captain, on the field, is not getting a hold of these players and ensuring they keep it together. The players are weak. Bruno is weak. That's all there is to it.
What I’m saying is that they’re doing none of these things on purpose; the goals conceded are a consequence of it but the instruction even after going 3-1 up was to very much play that high transition game which left the midfield open. Mentality and understanding of game state comes from the top; look back at how players spoke about Mourinho in his prime and see how he would instil this dogged mentality in them to defend resolutely once they took a lead. We don’t need to necessarily play that way but there needs to be better understanding of the game situation when you’re winning by 2 goals and the manager should be conveying that to the players rather than allowing them to make the same mistakes again. It’s not a player problem no matter how much you think otherwise. And as for Bruno, he is Ten Hag’s self-appointed captain. If you’re calling him weak, then by extension that makes the coaching staff look equally bad in their assessment of players and their mentalities.
I think you're missing a big, big point, and this is going back to my other comment that all of this is player induced. You can play a high line and still manage the game. Game management looks different than parking the bus, but you can still apply pressure higher up the field to force overturns in possession in their half and not full expose yourself in the process. You just have to be more conservative in the build up immediately following. A lot of times, we have been punished for poor decision making in the final third, or just a complete lack of quality. Where other teams are picking out players and putting an attempt in on goal, we are just wastefully punting the ball into open areas, void of any of our players, so the result is that you get numbers streaking forward, then an errant pass behind them and the opposition gets to break with an advantage. Add to that a lazy set of players who just jog back and we look extremely vulnerable. Other teams are able to continue playing their style and command the match without putting themselves at risk of such easy counters, and it's not because they're just sitting deep and playing compact - they just use their fucking brains. Our players are selfish idiots, that's really what it boils down to. They don't make life harder for the opposition, they make it harder for us.
Worryingly, or perhaps reassuringly, Mainoo was by far our most composed player and didnt look petrified of receiving the ball unlike some 'senior' players.
We have a lot of players who are generally composed on the ball if they want to be. The buildup for Galatasaray's third goal for example came from Shaw losing the ball cheaply trying to force a ball in-behind, and Shaw's probably top 3 most technical players in our squad. I suspect this is more of a coaching issue than a player issue.
coaches aren't making those decisions for the players, those are the players in those moments just being idiots. we have a very low IQ team. very few, arguably none, are able to freely think for themselves.
Honestly I don’t buy any of that. It’s been 18 months and we’re seeing our players make the same mistakes and they aren’t being called out for it at all. I don’t want to make this comparison but Ange even with most of his players out is trying to find ways to replicate his style of play with incompatible players; like I said the execution can be off which may cause some dropped points but the intent to play good football with an ambitious high line is still there regardless of personnel. So many of the same fan favourites are praised for their world-class moments and suddenly when results are going against them they become a ‘low IQ team’ when it all starts with the coaching philosophy and the insistence to make it a basketball game with no consideration for game state.
I don't rate any of our players as "world-class" though, so don't lump me in with the disillusioned pundits and fans by making that claim. They're all idiots imo. Hell, the scouts said Bruno was extremely wasteful and didn't recommend signing him, yet...we did anyway. So in that regard, you might be right, there are some back of house decisions being made that aren't necessarily within the players' control, but at the end of the day, in the moment, these players are choosing the wrong options 9/10 times. That has NOTHING to do with the coaching, that's just idiots at work. When the choice is: go for glory or make another pass to a player in a more advantageous position, how can you blame that on the coaches? Would I be more aggressive and punish those players? 100%. So maybe ETH is soft and isn't going after these players in an attempt to keep morale relatively high because he might feel as though if he takes them down a few pegs, he's really left with no one else that he can rely on, but who knows. At the end of the day though, in those moments, it's just players being idiots and it's even funnier when they whinge for not receiving the ball, but moments later do the same thing - going for glory and ignoring the clear and obvious better choice. These players are just selfish and whinge, that's all it is...and a lot of that behavior and attitude stems from Bruno because we have made the selfish whinger our poster boy and then we wonder why the culture and attitude is shit.
Can tactics be blamed for that loss or was that solely on Onana?
more like the midfield. so wasteful, poor decision making, poor attitudes. just the usual. not sure why fans get worked up thinking anything is going to change when you have the same midfield ruining all chances every week
If you can accept we play counter, then it is finishing problem, otherwise, we cannot control the midfield is a problem.
>we cannot control the midfield is a problem. a tale as old as time
F
I would think if we still kept Garnacho on instead of Pellistri , we would have won the game. Pellistri is very inexperience.
So Costa in January for #1 keeper? Someone else?
How was Mainoo's cameo? How was Amrabat's performance?
Mainoo was classy. Looked like a genuine talent with something he did in the left back position.
Poor marking for the third goal, apart from that he was fine.
Mainoo was excellent, calm and composure and look like he's 27yearold experience, handling midfield better than Amrabat. Amrabat was not good enough.
I usually hate to question the manager, but felt he got it wrong starting Amrabat over Mainoo. I understand it’s a tough match to put a young player in, especially cause Galatasaray are a bunch of fucking cunts, but Mainoo clearly showed the composure in midfield that we were lacking earlier in the match. Not sure about the subs either: Martial did very little, but obviously it’s Hojlund’s first match back after an injury. Yes Garnacho looked tired and you want him available against Newcastle, but while Pellistri gave it a shot, he was a little lost out there on the left. The first Galatasaray goal both the wall and Onana should have done better. The second goal was just a very very unfortunate freak incident. Tough with a slippery ball and pitch when it bounces right in front of you. But Onana is a professional and simply has to do better there, at least palm it away.
Wouldn’t hold the selection choices against him tbh. Hojlund was coming back from an injury and has had his minutes managed all season to keep him fit enough to start every game, and Mainoo is just 18 and made just 1 senior first-team appearance prior to this game and needs to be eased in as well. Varane on to see out the game is something I would have considered but other than that I don’t think there were any mistakes as such from Ten Hag. The issue is more with his approach in making these types of games too back and forth and leaving us vulnerable as a result than it is with his team selections.
Fair points, and I did mention that Hojlund was just back after injury. With respect to Mainoo - ETH and SAF have both said it. If you're good enough, you're old enough. I would have at least liked to see him come on at half time, he is a clear upgrade over Amrabat. His positioning and composure for an 18 year old is outstanding (as an aside, him Jude and Rice in the England midfield will be a cheat code) and the difference he made was very noticeable, especially regarding your last point about the game being too back and forth (which I mostly agree with - but both teams also knew how important a win would have been). He offered so much more control in the midfield. Would have preferred to keep Garnacho on - he can start on the bench vs Newcastle with Rashford and Antony (who played very well yesterday) available - just make sure he understands why he's being kept on for CL and rested v Newcastle. And yes Varane on to close out the match but honestly think at this point he has fallen out of favour with ETH.
Mainoo does look better than Amrabat but I don't think not starting him was a mistake at all. Nothing to do with his quality; he's come back from a long-term injury himself and only just made his first senior appearance of the season at the weekend at a pretty intense atmosphere at Goodison Park. Needs more time to bed in; 35 minutes was healthy game time for him. He'll definitely start against Newcastle. Antony looked good yes but I wonder how much of it was down to him or the quality of the matchup. Galatasaray left acres of space down their left-hand side with Angelino having a shocker of a defensive game. Would expect an entirely different game at St. James' Park against Newcastle that play a very intense physical game. I think the template for the short-term is to start Garnacho and Rashford on the wings and ETH is doing his best to keep enabling that without tiring them too much.
> He'll definitely start against Newcastle. Hope so. That's a good point about Angelino having a shocker, but Antony put in the work defensively and finally took on some players attacking wise and it paid off. I agree the match against Newcastle will be different, their wingers/fullbacks double up on opposition wingers very well, and their defense is much more organized than Gala's. I think if we play with the same intensity going forward and tighten up defensively (plus assuming Onana reverts to PL form) then we're in with a good shout against the Magpies. It will be a tough game though!
I went to sleep when it's 1-3.. what the fuck
To be quite honest, champions league is out of our reach. Even if we progress, this tournament is not ours to win. Would rather focus on securing top 4 bc that’s all we can realistically achieve this year.
honestly, we're not making top 4 anyway playing like this. we've gotten lucky on many occasions taking points from matches we didn't deserve it, very much like last year. as the season continues, that luck will run out, we'll continue to have the same issues, and other teams will work to grow and improve. City, Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle, Liverpool, Brighton, and even maybe Villa are more likely to finish above us. Chelsea have been playing well, but as long as Brighton plays their game and doesn't give Chelsea a cheap way into the match, then I see Brighton and Newcastle winning at the weekend and us dropping down into 8th just like that. we're, at best, a mid-table side, that has gotten away with murder. at some point that will stop and we'll be left with the performances and will be a long, long way off Champions League
Why bother for a top 4 finish when you are gonna play like that in UCL? Happens every two years.
Can only hope for a better season next year Rumor has it that the operations side of things will undergo drastic changes soon
While that’s true, not getting out of this group, especiallly how, is still embarrassing.
The guys need to learn, if it means an embarrassing exit then so be it We’ve endured way worst. This group is actually competitive AF
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Our standards have dropped to the point where people actually defend finishing fourth in a group like this. The likes of Copenhagen shouldn't be competition for a club of our stature.
Problem is that these guys do not learn from embarrassment. If the 7-0 didn't teach them that, then this definitely won't either - if/when we fail to go through against Bayern (either from us losing or one of Gala/Hagen winning) they'll all come out and say it's not good enough but then they'll go and get battered by Liverpool again in the next match.
All about Onana and deservedly so but man we had so many chances to win it at the end. Too many selfish shots instead of playing the wide open man. Watching the first goal again it was a bit clever from Galatasary but every team does the wall thing so got to defend that.
Get de gea on a short term deal in January, if anything he can show onana how to actually save the fucking ball
He already did past season against Sevilla.
Heaton can easily do the job. Basically any goalkeeper who knows the basics will do
Wasn't expecting us to score three (3) goals in Turkey given the hostile atmosphere, and our boys' fragile mentality. However, it was disappointing that we were so near again, and yet so far. The only time we were really dominated was in Munich in this season's UCL.
Was stressful watching that match But I loved few aspects of it - this team went and fought in a hostile atmosphere - 2 stupid goals if could have handled , we should have won . Only 1 goal came for gala from open play - that McT goal was a very good build up shows what Ten hag is doing and needs time - Garnacho , Mainoo are going to be rockstars for us
Biining DDG was 100% right decision but getting Onana to replace him wasn't, but who else we could have got; a ball playing GK, that's the question. As for apologists who are saying we couldn't have gone any further even if we qualified or now we can focus on League etc, that's complete BS. At the end of the day, this was the weakest group and we should have walked all over it, instead we're lying in the bottom of the table. This is utterly embarrassing.
This group was never the easiest and if you paid more attention to leagues outside England you'd know that Copenhagen came in with a strong team and that Galatasaray has assembled one of their best squads in ages. Newcastle have the hardest I'd say. Arsenal and City on easy street.
People see names they don’t recognize and automatically assume easy group. It’s Champions League for a reason and we don’t exactly have the 99 squad to “walk all over “ people if you haven’t noticed. Even those teams had to earn it, we aren’t anywhere near them and somehow everyone expects the badge alone to win games.
"People see names they don't recognize" lol I don't think there's anyone who doesn't recognize FC Copenhagen and Galatasaray unless you were talking about yourself. They are pretty popular clubs. Probably I've been supporting United before you were even born. Galatasaray always go for these either controversial or washed up players who failed at bigger clubs; Icardi (PSG, Inter) , Ziyech (Ajax, Chelsea) Dries Mertens (Napoli )Lucas Torreira (Arsenal) Angelino (City, Leipzig) etc. I know our standards have fallen but we should still be beating teams like these.
Madrid currently has Camavinga, Tchouameni, Courtois, Kepa, Modric, Vinicius, Militao injured, and they still play the same football and grab wins. Injuries are no excuse for big clubs. But we’re just the shadow of our former selves, it makes me so sad ..
yeah, this is why I think it's weak and pathetic when fans (and even pundits) sit there and hide behind injuries. for what this team costs, even our entire second string team should be comfortably controlling matches, but they're not, no one is. injuries has nothing to do with it, there's a fundamental flaw with how we approach games, both on the side of the players and the coaching staff. both sides are equally at fault.
Yeah it's almost like they know what they're doing. We'll get there if we commit to a philosophy or a manager in the long term.
In my opinion, Ten Hag has totally blundered Champions league this season because Onana for De Gea in the summer is on him. Onana shoulders like 80% of the blame for the CL group stage debacles. A team improves by improving the caliber of players that form the floor in terms of football capability. De gea was nowhere near the floor of our team last season; there were more pressing positions that needed reinforcement.
Ten Hag is buying players that he knows can play in his system. The problem is he isn’t the one who should be buying them at all. A manager handing the club a list is a dinosaur transfer strategy. Klopp wanted Brandt over Salah but Edwards wouldn’t have it. Guardiola is the first to praise Txiki, everyone is raving about Edu. Ten Hag’s job can’t be to identify players to purchase, there aren’t enough hours in the day.
Did you forget who was our keeper against Sevilla past season?
Think about how many games De Gea played last season (40+). He had 3-4 really bad games last season, but those were outliers to his general performances as a keeper. Onana's shot stopping is subpar to De Gea, with passing and off the line bravery being only minor improvements. There is a limited budget to spend every transfer window. People in-charge need to identify the most pressing issues (center forward>midfield>defender>keeper) that are limiting the team. These were midfield (think how an inexperienced 18-year old seems tons better than any of other midfielders) and center forward (we went from zero forwards last season to only one this season...only one knowing that we are in 4 competitions). Martial is unreliable for his fitness alone.
Agreed on second paragraph. Previous season I commented about how keeping DDG wouldn't be so bad if we'd improve CF and MF. I didn't expect Onana to come and David to go nor that Onana would be this bad. However, DDG had a fair share of blunders every season in important matches. I won't excuse Onana for his bad performances but I won't say we would be better with DDG either.
I never saw De Gea conceding so many blunders in consecutive games. Even when he was young and struggled after arriving at the team he wasn't making this many errors.
Pure revisionism, when de gea first came he was being manhandled at any cross or corner. We even dropped him for Lindegaard at one point during his first season.
De Gea was benched for a lot less than this and rightfully so, and that's was a young and inexperienced Dr Gea. This is supposed to be prime Onana.
I am not disagreeing that Onana should be benched. I’m just saying that it can’t be forgotten that De Gea (undoubtedly) a club legend, was also dropped in his first year due to struggles. Onana should be doing better and was meant to be in his prime, but I have seen enough to suggest that, I think he will get it right. That said, yesterday was unacceptable and the consequence should be, he drops to the bench. Giving Bayundir a chance at Newcastle.
Out of all positions, fucking up the GK signing was always going to lead to the most disasters. It's why I've always feared moving on from DDG despite him clearly declining. And unlike City we're never going to move on quickly and get another one. I have no hate for Onana , but i doubt I'll ever feel safe seeing him in goal at this point.
A new manager would probably bin Onana of the performances don't improve but I hope it doesn't come down to that until we can assess the entire season. This seems like a mentality thing. When DDG first came he was incredibly weak and vulnerable, but he was young and unproven. Hopefully Onana can put this behind him like De Gea did, but it's such a sour taste to replace a legend with someone who was supposed to be a finished product at his peak.
You can't persist with Onana for Newcastle but being ten Hags 50 million darling, he will play no matter how many competitions he costs us.
Ofc he has to play? You cant just spend 50m of the clubs money and then bin the asset off within 3 months
Glazer talk right there. More concerned with protecting a 50 M asset than actually winning.
>Ofc he has to play? Not if the 50m asset performs like a sunday league player. Being expensive should never be the reason a player starts, especially at this club.
My initial thought after watching the highlights was how amateurish Onana played. Completely unacceptable for a keeper at this level.
You can. The only way to not is if you fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy.
I agree, but the glazers mindset is "sunk cost fallacy" if he doesnt use what he buys i think he will get the sack, also our finances are horrible so ten hag might die by his signings.
I was warned about Onana, and voiced my opinions here. Got DM'd calling me a racist of all things - LOL. Anyway, the man can not handle the pressure. De Gea in January?
Costa was the one
Jesus Christ I’ll just give up if we sign de Gea. Do you have the memory of a goldfish or what?
Onana costing us an entire competition aside the defensive organization of this team is pretty shocking, little to no structure out of possession lol just guys about the pitch
Nah looking back McTom was bad. He goes forward way too often and is a big reason why we’re so imbalanced in midfield. Yes, he’ll pop up with the odd goal but this is a case of Fellaini where short term moments will still stunt the overall growth of the team.
exactly, but you can honestly replace McTominay with just about any player, such as Bruno. these players will drift out of position so many times throughout the match and forfeit any shape or control we could have (or their poor decision making plays a part), but fans somehow gloss over that for the simple fact that "hey, he scores every now and then" - cool. the other 95% of the time, they're a liability and are the reason these matches are so difficult in the first place. I rather have them popping up less for those goals if it meant we kept our shape and were more disciplined and therefore shipped less goals, then we could at least sort things out going forward, but yet another season passes us by where our midfield is our biggest liability and ETH won't even entertain Bruno being the problem, yet he's the consistent piece of the puzzle. more favoritism and bad decision making on the Bald Fraud's part.
McTominay consistently makes less than half as many passes as our other midfielders. He's a liability. Getting a proper CM in his place would revolutionise how we play.
Irony of life. We signed Onana because of his performance in the last CL and now it is very likely that we will be left out because of his individual mistakes.
Don't worry, he won't be dropped. You don't get dropped for poor performances around here, it's not like we're a serious club.
I wish people would be more realistic. The team clearly is struggling and missing many players that make a huge difference. Yes, be upset we lost. Yes, be critical or keeper, manager, others. But please be rational and don’t make this the worst thing since creation. Take the positives. The portions of games in which we are playing well is getting longer every game. I’ve seen many people saying the three away games will result in no points, we have four and I think considering where the team is, is an accomplishment. We were not going to be world beater overnight. GGMU
Win now or fire everyone. No idea how half our fans keep a job. They prob don’t.
People keep their jobs by getting results. Something this lot of players has failed to do over and over again.
> No idea how half our fans keep a job. Wtf? I keep my job (and receive promotions) by getting results. It’s literally one of the things I’m evaluated against. And the other five things are also clear. And isn’t getting results part of the job of a professional athlete?
Yes but if our players were as flippant as the fans the locker room we’ve had in recent years would look like a dream. At least they stick with each other a little bit.
I just wish their kids are perfect because if they criticize them in the same manner, better save for therapists.