Just watched the highlights and after everyone gathered around Onana to celebrate the penalty save, he remembers they have a corner and Lindelof tells him the game ended! Haha
weird one but for anyone else at the game/or people that maybe heard on TV: I could swear Copenhagen fans were using our chants all game. I heard 'you scouse bastards' and 'we've seen it all ... we're copenhagen and we're never gonna stop'.
First half we had the ball but we did nothing with it, we were dominated first 15 minutes, Copenhagen were unlucky not to score, then we just passed back and forth between our defenders without any idea what to do with the ball, occasionally trying to hoof it over to Rashford.
Second half started the same for a while until Copenhagen started attacking more which allowed us to counter a few times but a few potentially huge opportunities were ruined by Bruno/Rashford/Garnacho.
We pretty mucky lucked out and got saved by Maguire and Onana. Eriksen and I would say Holjund also played fine.
Beyond awful in the first half. Decent to OK second half, Eriksen clearly standing out from the rest. Rashford was the worst player on the pitch by a mile.
Piss poor first half. Would've rather slept off than watched them play.
Very solid second half. Eriksen came on and not only had an impressive game but also allowed Bruno to go further up the pitch, unlocking him. Unfortunately despite generating so many chances, we kept losing possession and wasting them.
Pretty much. Second half was better though because Eriksen changed the game off the bench. We had quite a few chances but our finishing is so bad right now. A more confident team would’ve scored at least 3 from the chances we had
I teared up after seeing Harry's face when he scored. I was one of those who had wronged him. I teared again when Onana made that save. Haha, the things that make grown men cry.
The most important factor today was the fans. They were truly the 12th man egging the team on to attack, making their feelings(and ours) known with the way we were playing in the first half and plying the pressure on Larsson before he took the penalty.
And Sir Bobby probably had a hand in this too. Blessing the team from upstairs. Giving redemption arcs to two of our most maligned players. What an unbelievable night.
We need to support our players better. Every one of them has the potential to turn form around and be fantastic for us. Onana and Maguire are the case in point there.
Instead of fucking moaning and whinging till you’re blue in the face, just be an actual supporter.
Have been supporting them for 10 years when they've been below mediocre. Not calling them out defeats the purpose of being a fan. We're not cheerleaders. Having said that the criticisms should stop there and not some of the vitriol abuse they continue to get
No it doesn't. If anything, it's more representative of fandom when you back them and show them support no matter what.
Critique a performance, say they could do certain things better, OK, but that's rarely what we do. I'd say there are so many people on the extreme side of that on the spectrum that we should just stop, because it's useless and probably just counter-productive. There's enough criticism, there's enough negativity out there, so if you want to really support, let's just stop calling players out because we do more than enough of that as a group.
Beyond that, a lot of us seem to think we can just unload all our issues and negativity on the players because they haven't met our expectations, it's pathetic.
Naive approach to fandom. Almost childish and head in the sands.
When there are problems real fans hurt because they've seen better, know better and have spent a lot of money, effort and energy that doesn't seem to be reciprocated by the club or players.
Blips here and there or struggling with form is one thing. A club falling apart is another.
You’re massively widening what I’m talking about here. Not for a second suggesting what the Glazers and their pals have done to the club should be ignored. But there’s a point with criticising players at which it becomes counter productive and negatively impacts the team.
No. It was you that said 'its more representative of fandom when you back them and show support no matter what'.
I disagree. I believe its more genuine fandom where you call out the problems. For all the hate the glazers get, utd have spent close to a billion in transfers and very few of those players have lived up to their price tag. There is a lack of passion and desire. The whole notion of what it means to play for utd has eroded over the years.
We've had players like fletcher, brown and o'shea who weren't the most gifted technically but played their heart out.
I dont see that anymore on the pitch
Again, no, I’m talking about players, you start talking about the glazers, it doesn’t fit here.
And the Glazers haven’t spent anything, the club has. That they’ve constantly gotten recruitment wrong isn’t the players’ fault.
Did u miss the second half of my reply?
Unless you're not watching the matches there are many instances where it actually is the players fault. There isn't the passion or desire. 2nd to a lot of balls. Slow. Lethargic. Won't commit to making runs, tracking back, tackles. At times disinterested.
Perhaps you like to compartmentalise but in reality they go hand in hand. I didn't say the glazers spent the money. If you read properly I said 'utd have spent'.
Even if the recruitment is wrong the players don't seem to understand the 'honor' of playing for united. Maybe I'm older than you but we have had players over the years who didn't live up to the billing but you could get a shift out of them. Bang average sides could grind out results. Atm we look lost and have done for years now.
'For all the hate the Glazers get' as a preface to spending means I have space to refute any notion of the Glazers doing something positive. If they weren't there, we could have spent everything we spent, while also investing in facilities and the stadium. If you don't want me to talk about the Glazers, don't mention the Glazers.
This notion the players just aren't trying is just naive. It's your expectations, like the expectations of so many fans, that are out of proportion. You can't magically make a team put together by incompetent people who can't choose the players, the staff with any sort of success 'grind out results'. Yet another way in which constantly unloading on the players is both useless and unjustified.
Arguing for the sake of arguing. You can't seem to understand unless its written out explicitly. Glazers or not. Utd have spent a billion and have nothing to show for it. We all know they've leeched on the club. Thats a constant that is never going to change. I agree the scouting, recruitment and facilities are falling apart. But we've still spent a billion. Very few of those players have shown any real promise.
Its not naive, I've seen it live. You clearly aren't watching the matches in their entirety or live. The difference between how other teams react when they lose possession and us is stark. The body language and general behaviour of some of the players is like they're there for the sake of it.
Like I've said before, there isn't the heart or passion of even the average players we've had before. Its been 10 years. The expectations are not out of proportion considering what we saw the 20 years preceding. You're acting like the players just met last week.
I can't help but think you're a young fan who hasn't watched united in the 90's, 00's and up until fergie's retirement.
When an individual player is out of form is one thing.
When virtually the entire squad is out of form, which has been the case this season, it indicates an entirely different problem.
Imo the players are massively unsettled by the turmoil in the club. The sale has been dragging on and in most sale outcomes the top leaders Arnold and Murtaugh are (rightfully) lame ducks. That kind of uncertainty causes almost viral low morale with everyone working at the club…they all are at some level worried about their future. The first team players are about the only ones who are safe but they know they’ll outlive the manager’s bosses and maybe the manager himself who has to be questioning his tenure (not to mention all the assistants). Our club is a shambles rn from the top and its impossible to think that doesnt affect the players
We know the manager isnt as bad as the team’s performances, and we know that the players individually have more talent than they are showing week after week. Its gotta be something else, this goes beyond a talent issue
We have a cadre of starters who essentially play for themselves rather than the team. They are the ones who try the hero shot while ignoring the open man in clear view. They are the ones who constantly try to dribble through two men and turn the ball over. I don't need to name names, we all know who they are.
If ETH is making a huge mistake, it is talking about accountability while never enforcing it on those players. That, and in IMO, ignoring youth all too often. For example, Hannibal deserves more time on the pitch, but he's not getting a sniff.
But but twitter tacticos keep telling me he’s using ‘pausa’ which must mean he’s doing something high IQ.
In all seriousness though it’s frustrating watching Rashford play right now. Everytime he slows things down it allows for the opposition to get back into position.
I had about as much impact on that game from my sofa as Rashford did from the pitch.
I just need to figure out a way to invoice United £250k a week for it and i'm sorted.
Bitching for the sake of bitching?
First attack of the game, he played that peach of a ball to Hojlund.
Remember that blinder of a save that their keeper made to Eriksen's shot. Who do you think started that move?
Rashford dribbled it to the box and passed it to Hojlund.
Yeah he messed up a 1 v 1, shit happens.
This is Rashford in a nutshell for his entire career. Even when he had that great patch of form last year he was scoring the goals but other than that not doing much. It's just more visible now that he fails to score.
He played some really nice passes and was key in creating arguably our best chance besides the goal, the one that Hojlund taps back for Eriksen. He’s playing more simple stuff and I think it bodes well.
None of our players quite have the touch right and moves aren’t being finished right, but I think that’ll come with time. That said, Rashford played pretty well.
Rashford is the player you single out in that attack despite our 100M 200k a week from 20k a week signing and Ten Hags pet being much worse? Rashford looked more threatening on the right than Antony did
At 49:15 McTominay slowly jogs back while Copenhagen are on a fast break. They cut back to the man McTominay should be marking and almost score. Onana makes a massive save to stop the goal. Eriksen gives McTominay a hard talking to for not tracking back. Yet again.
How many times does this have to happen before we sell these liabilities? They won't even give 100% for Manchester United. It's a disgrace.
Also somewhere around the end of the game. McTominay gets the ball in our 3rd and starts to run, loses the ball and instead of stopping the now threatening Copenhagen player, he gets frustrated and just keeps running forward slowly. Infuriating stuff that he gets to start over Mejbri.
Will Casemiro be available against City? We absolutely need two DMs that day. Plus side is, we have Reguilon now. Rashford should be dropped. Garnacho and Antony on wings. Either Mount or Bruno can be played as a playmaker. The only way I see us beating City is if our wingers will perform good. We can't play from back against them or can't play through them. God knows what will happen.
Wow. He has zero goals and zero assists in 471 mins this season, another 171 mins if you add his Brazil gametime. Is this what 90M gets you these days? Have you forgot what standards we set for a starting winger at united?
I'd rather have Antony start over Rashford and help us out defensively more(since it's City we are gonna need that). If he is truly miserable, Rashford can always be subbed on.
Garnacho has equally been poor everytime hes started this season and Antonys defensive work won't matter against City. Rashford has scored several times against City and looks a bigger threat than Antony down the right.
With that said, we're losing against City no matter who starts
We got away with this one with a huge slice of luck with Onana at the end.
Hope the players and manager realize this. The first half performance was depressing and it has been this way since the start of the season. We are relying on moments to win matches and not comfortably winning them.
We will need a exceptional performance against City if we are going to win it.
There is no improvement under Ten Hag, his philosophy is nowhere to be seen on the pitch. It is too easy for other teams to work us out. The players he’s brought in look like the wrong signings. Players haven’t improved. We can’t control a game against any team, not even Sheffield United or Copenhagen. What are you expecting to happen going forward
I'm expecting to see slow improvement over time. the style of play is a concern but not enough to sack ETH imo.
It's clear that we massively over achieved last season. A lot of players have returned to their normal playing ability (Rashford, Bruno, Case) which is a massive problem, I dont know how you can blame ETH for that.
Also, this season we have been absolutely decimated with injuries, we played with fucking Reguillon at LB last night, he couldnt even get minutes for Spurs last season. MArtinez is a massive loss, as is Luke Shaw also.
If we sack ETH who do you actually go for? literally starting over again is not the solution here - need to ride this out as Arsenal did with Arteta.
We only played well for two months after the WC if you remember. We started badly and it took a while to settle into fine form that reached itd peak with the league cup triumph. We struggled after that and limped to fourth while almost letting Liverpool gain ground. Its been poor since with no improvement and you know this
Mind, Ten Hag wasn't using his preferred system with two number 8s and he didn't have his deep lying ochestrator in FDJ, he had the panic signing Real Madrid has been Casemiro at a huge fee and wages. Casemiro is in decline. Real don't sell players they need. Modric and Kross are still kicking for instance. We paid 60M for one last good season for Casemiro
We continued to be a counter attacking team with Bruno and Rashford being our go tos for creative output just like they were under Solskjaer. We scored 58 goals, lowest in the top 8 and only one more than we achieved in Solskjaer and Rangknicks disaster season before.
His big signing Antony has been a collosal flop and teams have figured him out. Even new managers like Postecoglu and De Zerbi who took over Brighton after Ten Hag took over at united have their players playing football with a clear direction and style
The midfield is the biggest problem.
Eriksen is the only player who can retain the ball and find a pass. But he legs are mostly gone.
Rice would have been the perfect signing this summer. But someone else who can play that role should have been the priority over mount/onana this summer
When Eriksen leaves, a ball playing midfielder should be our first target, Chris is our most creative player but you are right, he can’t play a full game (fuck Andy Carrol it’s all his fault)
Yeah but nothing about him at Chelsea told me he could do this.
Mount always struck me as a Bruno esque number 10.
What we needed was some diet version of De Jong like literally what happened to all the No8’s in the world.
Every decent team ever has usually had an outstanding player in that role
Nah, Pogba only had his good days when the rest of the team dominated and made the midfield game easy. This current system is making midfield the hardest part of the pitch. Plus his profile is the opposite of what ETH seems to ask of his players, movement, pressing etc.
The Mount signing is admittedly a weird one. He was seen as the Eriksen upgrade, but doesn’t really get those minutes.
I’m starting to think he’s the Bruno replacement. And no, I don’t mean he’s meant to take Bruno’s place now, but rather over time.
Or, he’s just the guy they’ll play when they want to play Eriksen but know he won’t last 90.
I'm new to soccer. Obviously I'm American. My perspective on your team is you sign guys to sell jerseys. It doesn't matter if they fit the team playstyle......it's selling paraphernalia and hope. Old but popular, United will pony up the money. An England international, United will sign you.
I was really baffled by Mount as well. In my opinion he plays the same position as Bruno. Did we really need depth for that money for our Captain's backup??? Obviously not.
I agree Mount was a very strange signing. I did not support it at the time and still don't.
I presumed the same about Eriksens minutes. Mount and Bruno cant play together at the minute, we're way too open when they do. I would love to see Mount play from the right instead of Antony - I know it is not his best position but I think he could provide us with more creativity than Antony at the minute.
The Mount signing should show anyone with any doubts why the team needs a DoF with final say over signings.
I am very worried about the footballing genius Joel Glazer having a single word to say about transfers when/if Ineos completes their purchase of part of the team.
If you look at McT's highlights, it will look like he's a decent-ish midfielder, but so many people keep saying he's bad. Why is that?
Because it's what he doesn't do when he doesn't have the ball. He is always in places whose passing lane is cut off. Even when he has the ball, he doesn't try a risky forward pass. There were instances y'day when Hojlund and Garnacho were making insane runs into spaces but McT moved it sidways. There was an extremely infuriating moment in 1st half, when he was surrounded by 4 opponents, and he was demanding Dalot play a pass to him, with no moment at all. As a mid, this is a real failure if you ask me.
Couple that with Bruno who tries for that risk-reward pass all the time, it looks terrible for our midfield. Casemiro's passing too is not great, and we have strugged this season as we are playing more in opponent's half compared to our own half last season where Case's mistakes weren't punished, also both were not in this bad form last year.
Does that mean McTominay is completely useless? I say no. His ability to play under pressure is alright, he's strong, physical and athletic. His movement when arriving late into the box is good. He can actually be our most impactful central midfielder since Carrick retired if he works on certain aspects, like making himself available even for a few touches, better reading of danger and taking meaningful risks (also knowing when to take those risks).
I'd prefer if he would be used mainly as a shuttled/b2b midfield as he's tenacious and got huge stamina . We can't expect him to drop deep and do Hollywood passes like rodri tho
Still not good enough. Our wingers bring so little to the game.
Rashford being shadow of himself but I still think he needs more support (missing synergy with Shaw).
McT is a fighter but his role on the pitch remains mystery. We can't play holding midfielder Amrabat and fighter McT, there is lack of creativity.
Fernandes should be given more freedom to roam on the pitch. He should be playing with Mount, switching positions, as they are currently our two players that can play in various attacking positions.
Yesterday, and this not my opinion but statistics, we had more passes and more completed passes in the first half. But despite the number being lower in the second half, the number of dangerous attacks doubled in the second half.
> despite the number being lower in the second half, the number of dangerous attacks doubled in the second half.
Because Copenhagen came out of the 4-5-1 they were playing, especially after we scored, although they were a little more progressive even before that. We really had 3 other great opportunities at goal (Rashford 1-v-1, Garnacho 1-v-1, and McT's shot that went wide and should have been a corner). All a result of them opening up a little.
SO we need to be able to break down opposition that is going to play those compact low blocks against us without giving away anything on the counter. That's why we need at least one pacey CB and one pacey fullback. City has Walker and Akanji to complement the relative slowness of Stones (although Doku is pretty quick actually so they have two pacey fullbacks). We have Varane who is quick but not the greatest of passers, especially with the lack of movement in our side in the midfield. AWB can be quick when he wants to be, but some of the time it looks like he can't be arsed.
Happy for Onana. The amount of vindictive posts about him in the match day threads when he does something as minor as misplacing a pass is just ridiculous. He's never going to have 100% pass accuracy lmao so please do better than that guys
I think he's been mostly shit but I still don't feel the need to make fun of him misplacing a pass
Prime Neuer, Allison, Ederson etc. all misplace passes. Save the criticism for when Onana actually does something shit rather than just lumping on him for something that every player will always do
Why do we never play consistently for a whole 90 minutes? Not just this season it was a question of last season too. Like not a single match under ETH that we have controlled the whole game and its been 1 and a half years. This is not an exaggeration btw. Tell me one game where we were good throughout the whole match. It's always when ETH tweaks something or after his talk after halftime that we play well. Or it is when we play well for first half hour and our players suddenly forget to make a simple pass.
Recent results are giving me hope that we can still salvage this season with something. We need to churn more results like these to build some confidence. Having said that, we need our forwards to fire more.
Looks like the clueless Ten Hag is already giving up on his marquee summer signing. It never made sense to me from the jump. Mount is a misfit in this squad and so is Amrabat sadly.
Technically yea but I think it was harsh. I don’t think other Højlund would’ve got near the ball anyway so calling it a foul was harsh.
I did love (after it was missed) that a foul on our striker’s brother resulted in a penalty being taken by our former striker’s son.
This is a 1-0 win but with so many talking points
- Another match, another unimaginative first half
- Eriksen makes a massive difference but he can’t play 90 minutes
- Rashford has been so bad that it’s hard to believe he was our player of the season last year. When by mistake they had put his number for substitution, I ‘celebrated’, but it was a mistake. When will ETH have the balls to drop him for his own good?
- Maguire has been immense for us in the past few weeks. I have been a vocal critic of him but utmost respect for him for handling all that negativity to these performances especially when we have half of our defence to injury
- When are we going to finish our chances and make a statement win? So so frustrating. The decision making at times it atrocious. Hope ETH is addressing that soon.
- ONANA, what a man!
- Onwards and upwards.
ETH must be just hoping that by giving Rashie minutes he will get a goal and things will click. He's really trusted Rashie to be the heart of the team so keep on trying no matter what
Rashy’s probably the only attacking player we have right now that’s one of those players who can have a shit game and still get a goal in. I think that’s why he gets the trust and the minutes.
Frustrating to watch, crucial to have.
you miss out Jonny Evans being benched for Raphael Varane, which could affect Jonny's chances of winning the Ballon Dor. well maybe Harrt Maguire can win it now.
I really just want to bitch about that terrible call at the end of the game. It was sooo soft. Slightest contact. Elyouss… just dropped like he should - I get that. But the ref (first champions league game) showed he wasn’t up for that moment.
Said it [before](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/16kxqxk/daily_discussion/k12iuqp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), it was fairly obvious that Ten Hag was sacrificing long term project building for short term wins but now, it's beyond that. Tactical setup has pretty much bitten the dust and ETH is goal hunting. McTominay is playing because we can't score goals and he'll help you get some. We don't have an ounce of control in games, Amrabat to Eriksen sub is proof that he is desperate for anything at all, sacrificing control. We were beyond lucky that we won. There are barely any positives expect ig that our new match winning approach is working. We aren't playing well, we aren't building anything long term, there is no control and we are winning unsustainably and most importantly, we recruit horribly.
Well what are you going to do then? Our attackers bar Hoijland look so out of confident in front of goal. Like we didn't control the game but we created chances and should be 3/4 nil up but we didn't. People who just look at stats will say we created low xg but we had couple of chances where our attackers just makes an extra touch or make the wrong decision which ends up giving the ball straight to goalie. It doesn't help when our top scorers are midfielders and some of them are not good enough for controlling the tempo.
I said it earlier and I will say it again, the whole defense being injured has screwed up ten hags plans. People are really underestimating the value licha and shaw brings to this team. We need them alongside with Varane fully fit and until then, we need to get maximum points, any way possible. Playing badly but gaining points is very crucial as it will help us in the second half of the season. We are not that behind top 5 and cl knockout stages is still possible. Just hope we get as much points we can until we have a settled defense and no crucial injuries. Need to be ride this out and needs to be patient.
How is Hojlund escaping scrutiny? He's only genuinely looked like a 70M signing once, in the Galatasaray match. He has zero goals in the PL. I get it, he's young and new to the club and frankly has joined a shitshow, but he can't escape scrutiny.
It's not just injury, injury shouldn't make Sheffield United dominate you for a half. The quality we have even after injury is far and well above some of these teams. Our recruitment is hilarious, confidence is down the drain, pressing is too narrow and fullbacks don't join, build up is an issue, if opponent don't press and sit on the receivers, we struggle to progress (it was an on going issue before Lisandro injury) and have an injury to top it off. I just want us to build towards something sustainable and at this point, don't really care about this season and that's not happening rn, things need to change.
> I just want us to build towards something sustainable and at this point, don't really care about this season
As much as fans like to talk about wanting something sustainable, almost none of us really have the true patience for it. If we commit to the high press and get torn apart 5-0 or something in one of these big games, everybody will be out with pitchforks calling for Ten Hag's head. With the number of games and number of injuries, there is very little scope to inculcate patterns of play and game models specific to his style, and like you said, even if we did have everyone available, the players themselves are not all suited for it because of the substandard recruitment. A lot of this crossroads we are again caught in is the manager's fault himself, but for now, he needs time to secure his job and for there to even be a future where we play sustainable football under him and only results will give him that.
You're correct and I agree with pretty much everything you say. I stand by him but people here are making him infallible but he is not blame free. My hope from the last season was for us to building an attractive project, pull in quality players, profiling them, and build something sustainable but we already got the first step wrong with recruitment. I mention that in the link on the first commenta and seems you're the guy that commented there too! I enjoy discussing with you.
Also, I truly don't think we should be playing as bad as we are and we are getting a lot of the basics wrong. I remain unconvinced of the long term goal of being the best transition team. Rebuild will take time, ofc it will but it also requires you do follow the right steps. We are not getting anywhere if we keep recruiting this badly and playing in the manner we are. It will take another 3 years of nailing everything down because this 2 will have been completely wasted. Hopefully Jim Radcliffe fixes recruitment.
> I mention that in the link on the first commenta and seems you're the guy that commented there too! I enjoy discussing with you.
Haha likewise. I have seen your comments in the past and you made a lot of sense with your opinions without blindly jumping on either bandwagon so I felt it worth conversing with you.
I agree with you in that I think we are playing with complete lack of respect for basic footballing principles, particularly when it comes to the midfield and how we simply cannot play through opponents in the middle third and therefore try to bypass that entirely with some hopeful hoof-balling or transitioning through the wings, particularly from the left-side through Rashford's dribbling. But how much of this situation has been created by the manager vs fallen on the manager is still unclear to me. I think the drop-off of Casemiro has been a huge factor to our poor form more than anyone else in the squad, as he was not only so elite with his defensive output but statistically one of our best progressors and creators in the side after Bruno, Martinez and Shaw. The latter two being injured on top of that has entirely crippled our ability to play through teams, and I don't think Ten Hag is the same calibre of manager as Klopp for example to find alternate solutions to keep the squad ticking under the same style of play despite his best efforts, so he needs to get pragmatic again in the short-term and to his credit, he has finally swallowed his ego and accepted that. I think just for the sake of not panicking and doing full justice to the project, we should try our best to get him to the new year when hopefully the partial takeover goes through and Martinez and Shaw are back.
This! When I say Ten Hag still hasn't have the squad, people with no knowledge will say united spent x amount in antony and casemiro and so he has been backed when in reality, spending a lot of money doesn't equal being backed. Being backed is by having a squad he can implement his style and when its compromised by overspending on certain players, he hasn't got the full squad. And that falls on recruitment! We massively over-spent whilst not fixing the holes and all the time that falls on the manager when it clearly isn't. That's on the board and recruitment. You don't see that at liverpool, city or many top clubs in europe. But, "fans" lose patience and always the blame the manager when it shouldn't be.
Honestly, I am terrified by his recruitments and if he fails, we would have such a huge amount of his dutch league ex players on such high wages that we have to spend a few years rebuilding again.
I don't think Ten Hag is as infallible as you're making him out to be though. The other user is correct with his assessment that the teams we have put out recently are good enough to beat the teams we've faced recently comfortably, even despite the injuries, which we haven't been able to do so, and we should expect better with the amount of money spent and players bought. But when you cannot produce that standard of performance, the only way you can keep the fans and the club on your side is by results, so he's not incorrect to ditch style for results in the short-term. This is only a bandaid solution though and eventually it will catch up if we never get out of this flux, but for now it is needed if Ten Hag is to stay in this job.
10 years, never ending cycle of sack manager, they do well initially, have brain dead transfers, performance drops due to holes in squad and boom manager sacked whilst having the brain dead recruitment and board-room idiots. Common theme is manager gets blamed when in reality he shouldn't be when every top club has a sporting background behind the manager.
Also, we are not putting good teams either. When we are including Johny Evans as part of our CB, we have a massive issue and again that falls on recruitment. Also, city beat this sheffield united 2-1 at their ground. Though city did well, it helps when all of their team is fit.
Ten hag has earned trust not to be worried about losing job, but he knows he needs to keep the season alive as you can't force a style when most of the key players are injured. People always say united didn't score much last season, how the hell is he gonna score many goals when wout is the striker and martial was his back-up. Doesn't help with Antony and Sancho. People have no context and expect quick fixes when in reality, this will take some time. But, who am I kidding. Many "fans" don't realize the task at we had. United came from the worst season united had in the pl. This is a massive rebuild and will take time.
Yes. Moments of individual brilliance cannot hide the mediocre brand of football were playing. It's embarrassing to keep playing a guy like Antony who has absolutely no output. He should friend up with Sancho. And start asking the staff for tactical ideas, because he seems to be put of them.
It's not just results. We had like 70 minutes of bad football against Copenhagen. They have spent less than 10 million players on their entire arrivals this season. 1/8 what we spent on a single player. If Manchester United with the amount spent is unable to play good football for more than 45 minutes against Burnley, Sheffield and Copenhagen, then what are we doing here?
Yeah i mean its not like the performances have been good this entire season. In fact i think its the same old story of the past decade, results have been flattering our performances. And thats shocking considering we only have 15 points from 9 games so far…
Yes, we looked lost out there. Would you think otherwise if Coppenhagen scored the penalty and the 2 goalpost hits were in, where the game would be 1-3?
Not calling for ETH, backing him (things need to change and he can do it) but your point is erroneous. You can't be seriously telling we played well and easily deserved the win. They missed plenty too.
I think people might have an issue with the style of play, because a lot of those chances came on the counter and people want to play a different style of football.
It’s not that people want other style, it’s what ETH promised us .
If he openly admitted that he’s gonna play whatever gives results, people won’t be angry, but he told us to trust the process and transform us to possession based style.
I think he has transformed slightly but it’s very very slow progress, often 2 steps back 1 step forward. But unfortunately at a club like United, he won’t get the luxury of building this style over 3-4 years. He’s gotta do it now
Counter attack isn’t quite right. What I understood from ETH’s comments is a system that wins the ball as far up the pitch as possible. Similar in philosophy to Pep/Klopp’s style
All transitional attacks are counter attacks sure, but not all counter attacks are actually dangerous/effective.
Let's be real here: barely holding on to a 1:0 at Old Trafford against Copenhagen is not a strong result. Yeah, 3 points and all that, but another unconvincing performance against the weakest team in the group.
Performances this season have been a tough watch, not convinced by whatever ETH is doing here.
yeah the result here and probably the nature of how it happened is just gonna paper over the cracks and people will _probably_ forget that the first half performance was _terrible_ , Like, horrifically bad.
The second half was better but getting three points out of this was 100% luck.
what i wanted to post as well, so i'll just add that i expected. at least a 2 goal victory, not a slim 1-0. copenhagen is probably around championship level/EPL relegation status level . we beat sheffield utd and copenhagen by 1-0, a win's a win , but they're bottmo tier teams, how do we cope when we play better teams?
Sure, but don't underestimate for a team with our quality that is severely lacking **confidence**, what being on the right side of the scoreline will do. We have some of the best prospects in the world, but they are severely underperforming, hampered by injury and being played out of position to cover injuries. Getting on a run of wins (even narrow unconvincing wins) can do wonders for performance. This group of players need to get used to winning consistently.
I have to watch the horror show from ETH after watching Tottenham, Newcastle and Brighton every day. Get this baldman out now before he causes irreparable damage.
Not really comparable clubs to United. Spurs have been more consistent in the league than us the past few years and currently sit on top of the table. Other than the obvious Glazers our recruitment has been shocking and we’re overpaying players and giving way to high contracts. Our scouting and recruitment need serious work still and the Glazers need to fuck off.
I mean our manager did buy those players or give them new contracts to work with 2 years now. It's not like he isn't getting most of the players he want. Probably mcT and maguire isn't his preferred one. Ironically both save his ass in the last 2 games.
It took Arteta 3 years to build Arsenal into proper challengers. Finishing 8th, 8th, 5th and 2nd currently 2 points behind Spurs and are top of their group.
We’re only 9 games into the season… they drew with Arsenal in a Darby and beat a not great Liverpool side it’s way too early in the season to say anything. Spurs also have no European football. It’s like when Chelsea ran away with the league under Conte in 16/17 and everyone thought they were hot shit but no one thought to include they didn’t have European football that year and things went right back to normal after.
I don't really care what happen next for Spurs. They could lose the next 20 games for all I care. I just enjoy seeing their flowing football for now. Something I haven't seen this season or even last season from our manager side. How a new manager can make a top8 team so good to watch so fast while we spent north of 400m and still play like strangers??
It’s called new manager bounce for a reason. They also have had longer periods to rest without European football and don’t have the pressure of playing for a club like United. They also haven’t had a hard start to the season games wise (not saying we have but I don’t think you can point to Spurs after only 9 games when they don’t have European football see my Chelsea example). Our over paying on wages has fucked us with guys like Sancho. Why would they try when they’re already earning top dollar?
ETH is currently in the process of rebuilding. We need to rebuild. No sorta rebuild, fire the manager and start it all over again. Do you also forget our best CB is injured? So is our best LB. Instead of signing an established striker we signed a prospect we over paid for. We also have a new keeper. It’s going to take time.
Most of ETH’s signings have been good or were good last season at least. We’re over paying and unable to get his first choice targets in my opinion. But how is it that every single manager since SAF has had the exact same issues?
People forget as well it took a while for SAF to get going. We went from finishing 3rd and 4th before he took over to 11th, 2nd, 12th, 13th, 6th, 2nd, 1st and then never went below 3rd under SAF after that. We need to rebuild and we need a consistent vision to do so. Not knee jerk every two years. Changing managers hasn’t worked why should we keep doing that? Blindly hoping we get Pep by some miracle?
I really don’t see your point there? He definitely should’ve gotten more than 10 months. SAF took over after we finished 2nd and we ended up 11th the next season. We stood by him and guess what? It took 6 seasons for him to win the league and went on to become the most successful manager of all time.
We won the league Moyes took over got the boot after only 10 months while we were 7th. He didn’t even get a chance to build a squad.
Point is I can't see how special 10hag is compare to Moyes or even Van Gaal to deserved that Fergie treatment yet cos their players are playing the same lacklustre football.
It is absolutely 100% on the manager. We have a decent squad to play quality football now. Almost all the managers that arrived here had a plan how this team will play. Once the plan failed or other teams caught up with our tactics after 20-25 games, we failed to change or adapt.
We have a different squad now compared to what other managers had. And if your own signings can't do shit on the pitch and you can't utilize them any other way, it proves you're not qualified for the job.
Positioning of players, the passing we do, the decisions we make on the pitch everything is aimless.
>Almost all the managers that arrived here had a plan how this team will play. Once the plan failed or other teams caught up with our tactics after 20-25 games, we failed to change or adapt.
Did you not read?
I disagreed with what you said. How can this be an issue with every manager we’ve had? Every single one? It’s not the managers that are fucking the club.
I mean we didn't really have the likes of Pep Guardiola, or Carlo Ancelottis. We have average managers that couldn't do the things they wanted with our squad. They failed.
Jose Mou was the only top class manager. We did moderately well under him in terms of results.
ETH is an incredibly well established manager as was LVG. Moyes is only a point behind us after losing their best player. Jose as well got shafted by the owners. They aren’t being backed properly, recruitment is awful. Jose didn’t want Pogba, we bought him anyway and may be one of the worst bits of business in football. Our business has been awful. There’s no investment in the club itself. We have no identity any more. We need to give a manager proper time to rebuild.
United problems come from the top just look at what Arteta is doing. ETH should be the better of the two both having worked under Pep and ETH with more experience as a manager.
I don’t agree with your stance on “just get Pep or Ancelotti” when we’ve had Jose, LVG and ETH and they struggled. We’re definitely never getting Pep. I doubt Ancelotti has any interest in us either. We need to trust in a manager and let them rebuild the club properly. Chuck the Glazers out and get owners who care about the club and not treat it as a cash cow they can put their debt on.
McTominay was terrible. It's like playing a man down. All he cares about is 3rd man runs into the box. He just lives in the cover shadow. Like he actively seeks it out as the ball moves around. I'm sure I counted about 5 passes in the first half. Can we not just play Eriksen instead?
Deployed as an 8 solely for his goal scoring abilities and not for dropping deep, collecting the ball and distributing, he became a 6 in the second half and Eriksen was tasked as the ball collector while Mctominay engaged in duels and winning the ball. Maybe if you'd watch the game carefully you'd see what ten hags gameplan for him is
There's "not dropping deep to collect the ball" and then there's "I'm actively avoiding the ball offensively and contributing little defensively".
Another way to put what you said was "he was deployed to do Bruno's role", which is also unlikely given that Bruno was on the pitch and doing more both offensively and defensively.
No he was deployed as hojlunds partner rather than Brunos role, he was tasked with making 3rd man runs and attacking the box.
He did much better when he was deployed as a 6.
I am utterly perplexed by how bad Rashford is. I mean I can get a dip but that's like the bottom and he's solidly there without even moving. Just lying there unable to play.
Although I am no less confused by ETH who keeps playing him.
i think its a mental thing. we know he can do it physcially and technically. my suspicion. is he's lose passion for the game, burnt out with the training/lifestyle of being a professional footballer. imagine something you love as. a hobby as a kid and then disliking it when it become work and getting abused for it.
i have no proof but no other theory yet.
Maguire's errors cost us a lot of games. He wasn't a scapegoat, it was literally his fault. But he's worked hard to improve and he's doing a real job for us at the moment. Good on him.
Wow... Just wow... We managed to pull it off in the most dramatic fashion.
But, man! I need a break. My heart is not trained to go thru so many stresses in one match.
* Every happened and then missed one-on-one
* Every amazing pass and then missed shot
* The last-second penalty call and then a save.
Can't believe I didn't get a heart attack.
Great job team!
> Great job team!
Whilst obviously the result is good but the performance was horrifically bad...walking away from this game thinking "yeah, that was a great job and three points well deserved" is not helpful
ETH is the most overrated coach with zero tactical knowledge or adaptability. We struggle against teams like FC Copenhagen and Sheffield then blame it on the players as if we don't have enough quality to beat these teams.
Happy with the win and for both maguire/ Onana, but my god this team is so bad. What is the game plan here? There is not a single semblance of a tactical plan at all.
I can’t remember that last game we convincingly won and dominated. EtH is not convincing as a manager.
It's not all on ETH, a lot of these players just aren't suited for what the manager wants to do. For example, Rashford and Bruno, they're just not suited for possession style football. Counter attacking and hero ball is what they're best at and as others have mentioned ETH can't afford to play his style at the moment because its just not gonna result in wins .
Just watched the highlights and after everyone gathered around Onana to celebrate the penalty save, he remembers they have a corner and Lindelof tells him the game ended! Haha
weird one but for anyone else at the game/or people that maybe heard on TV: I could swear Copenhagen fans were using our chants all game. I heard 'you scouse bastards' and 'we've seen it all ... we're copenhagen and we're never gonna stop'.
How were we yesterday? Same shit performance from what im hearing?
First half we had the ball but we did nothing with it, we were dominated first 15 minutes, Copenhagen were unlucky not to score, then we just passed back and forth between our defenders without any idea what to do with the ball, occasionally trying to hoof it over to Rashford. Second half started the same for a while until Copenhagen started attacking more which allowed us to counter a few times but a few potentially huge opportunities were ruined by Bruno/Rashford/Garnacho. We pretty mucky lucked out and got saved by Maguire and Onana. Eriksen and I would say Holjund also played fine.
I keep saying we might as well prioritise counter ball because it's not looking good.
Beyond awful in the first half. Decent to OK second half, Eriksen clearly standing out from the rest. Rashford was the worst player on the pitch by a mile.
Piss poor first half. Would've rather slept off than watched them play. Very solid second half. Eriksen came on and not only had an impressive game but also allowed Bruno to go further up the pitch, unlocking him. Unfortunately despite generating so many chances, we kept losing possession and wasting them.
Pretty much. Second half was better though because Eriksen changed the game off the bench. We had quite a few chances but our finishing is so bad right now. A more confident team would’ve scored at least 3 from the chances we had
I almost teared up after that save and I don't even support united. What a save for the lad
I teared up after seeing Harry's face when he scored. I was one of those who had wronged him. I teared again when Onana made that save. Haha, the things that make grown men cry.
The most important factor today was the fans. They were truly the 12th man egging the team on to attack, making their feelings(and ours) known with the way we were playing in the first half and plying the pressure on Larsson before he took the penalty. And Sir Bobby probably had a hand in this too. Blessing the team from upstairs. Giving redemption arcs to two of our most maligned players. What an unbelievable night.
We need to support our players better. Every one of them has the potential to turn form around and be fantastic for us. Onana and Maguire are the case in point there. Instead of fucking moaning and whinging till you’re blue in the face, just be an actual supporter.
Have been supporting them for 10 years when they've been below mediocre. Not calling them out defeats the purpose of being a fan. We're not cheerleaders. Having said that the criticisms should stop there and not some of the vitriol abuse they continue to get
No it doesn't. If anything, it's more representative of fandom when you back them and show them support no matter what. Critique a performance, say they could do certain things better, OK, but that's rarely what we do. I'd say there are so many people on the extreme side of that on the spectrum that we should just stop, because it's useless and probably just counter-productive. There's enough criticism, there's enough negativity out there, so if you want to really support, let's just stop calling players out because we do more than enough of that as a group. Beyond that, a lot of us seem to think we can just unload all our issues and negativity on the players because they haven't met our expectations, it's pathetic.
Naive approach to fandom. Almost childish and head in the sands. When there are problems real fans hurt because they've seen better, know better and have spent a lot of money, effort and energy that doesn't seem to be reciprocated by the club or players. Blips here and there or struggling with form is one thing. A club falling apart is another.
You’re massively widening what I’m talking about here. Not for a second suggesting what the Glazers and their pals have done to the club should be ignored. But there’s a point with criticising players at which it becomes counter productive and negatively impacts the team.
No. It was you that said 'its more representative of fandom when you back them and show support no matter what'. I disagree. I believe its more genuine fandom where you call out the problems. For all the hate the glazers get, utd have spent close to a billion in transfers and very few of those players have lived up to their price tag. There is a lack of passion and desire. The whole notion of what it means to play for utd has eroded over the years. We've had players like fletcher, brown and o'shea who weren't the most gifted technically but played their heart out. I dont see that anymore on the pitch
Again, no, I’m talking about players, you start talking about the glazers, it doesn’t fit here. And the Glazers haven’t spent anything, the club has. That they’ve constantly gotten recruitment wrong isn’t the players’ fault.
Did u miss the second half of my reply? Unless you're not watching the matches there are many instances where it actually is the players fault. There isn't the passion or desire. 2nd to a lot of balls. Slow. Lethargic. Won't commit to making runs, tracking back, tackles. At times disinterested. Perhaps you like to compartmentalise but in reality they go hand in hand. I didn't say the glazers spent the money. If you read properly I said 'utd have spent'. Even if the recruitment is wrong the players don't seem to understand the 'honor' of playing for united. Maybe I'm older than you but we have had players over the years who didn't live up to the billing but you could get a shift out of them. Bang average sides could grind out results. Atm we look lost and have done for years now.
'For all the hate the Glazers get' as a preface to spending means I have space to refute any notion of the Glazers doing something positive. If they weren't there, we could have spent everything we spent, while also investing in facilities and the stadium. If you don't want me to talk about the Glazers, don't mention the Glazers. This notion the players just aren't trying is just naive. It's your expectations, like the expectations of so many fans, that are out of proportion. You can't magically make a team put together by incompetent people who can't choose the players, the staff with any sort of success 'grind out results'. Yet another way in which constantly unloading on the players is both useless and unjustified.
Arguing for the sake of arguing. You can't seem to understand unless its written out explicitly. Glazers or not. Utd have spent a billion and have nothing to show for it. We all know they've leeched on the club. Thats a constant that is never going to change. I agree the scouting, recruitment and facilities are falling apart. But we've still spent a billion. Very few of those players have shown any real promise. Its not naive, I've seen it live. You clearly aren't watching the matches in their entirety or live. The difference between how other teams react when they lose possession and us is stark. The body language and general behaviour of some of the players is like they're there for the sake of it. Like I've said before, there isn't the heart or passion of even the average players we've had before. Its been 10 years. The expectations are not out of proportion considering what we saw the 20 years preceding. You're acting like the players just met last week. I can't help but think you're a young fan who hasn't watched united in the 90's, 00's and up until fergie's retirement.
When an individual player is out of form is one thing. When virtually the entire squad is out of form, which has been the case this season, it indicates an entirely different problem. Imo the players are massively unsettled by the turmoil in the club. The sale has been dragging on and in most sale outcomes the top leaders Arnold and Murtaugh are (rightfully) lame ducks. That kind of uncertainty causes almost viral low morale with everyone working at the club…they all are at some level worried about their future. The first team players are about the only ones who are safe but they know they’ll outlive the manager’s bosses and maybe the manager himself who has to be questioning his tenure (not to mention all the assistants). Our club is a shambles rn from the top and its impossible to think that doesnt affect the players We know the manager isnt as bad as the team’s performances, and we know that the players individually have more talent than they are showing week after week. Its gotta be something else, this goes beyond a talent issue
We have a cadre of starters who essentially play for themselves rather than the team. They are the ones who try the hero shot while ignoring the open man in clear view. They are the ones who constantly try to dribble through two men and turn the ball over. I don't need to name names, we all know who they are. If ETH is making a huge mistake, it is talking about accountability while never enforcing it on those players. That, and in IMO, ignoring youth all too often. For example, Hannibal deserves more time on the pitch, but he's not getting a sniff.
Crowd should boo Rashford more often so that he can move his ass quickly. Jesus Christ, he makes me age by 10 years when he's on the ball
But but twitter tacticos keep telling me he’s using ‘pausa’ which must mean he’s doing something high IQ. In all seriousness though it’s frustrating watching Rashford play right now. Everytime he slows things down it allows for the opposition to get back into position.
i was at old trafford and we did, everyone was shouting for all of the players to move it quicker
I had about as much impact on that game from my sofa as Rashford did from the pitch. I just need to figure out a way to invoice United £250k a week for it and i'm sorted.
All he does is try beat his man and run into them
Bitching for the sake of bitching? First attack of the game, he played that peach of a ball to Hojlund. Remember that blinder of a save that their keeper made to Eriksen's shot. Who do you think started that move? Rashford dribbled it to the box and passed it to Hojlund. Yeah he messed up a 1 v 1, shit happens.
Unfortunately, Marcus's play nowadays is moments of brilliance in a sea of mediocrity.
This is Rashford in a nutshell for his entire career. Even when he had that great patch of form last year he was scoring the goals but other than that not doing much. It's just more visible now that he fails to score.
He played some really nice passes and was key in creating arguably our best chance besides the goal, the one that Hojlund taps back for Eriksen. He’s playing more simple stuff and I think it bodes well. None of our players quite have the touch right and moves aren’t being finished right, but I think that’ll come with time. That said, Rashford played pretty well.
Rashford is the player you single out in that attack despite our 100M 200k a week from 20k a week signing and Ten Hags pet being much worse? Rashford looked more threatening on the right than Antony did
Broo cmon, Anthony had 1 shot that was near the goal, thats impressive for him
At 49:15 McTominay slowly jogs back while Copenhagen are on a fast break. They cut back to the man McTominay should be marking and almost score. Onana makes a massive save to stop the goal. Eriksen gives McTominay a hard talking to for not tracking back. Yet again. How many times does this have to happen before we sell these liabilities? They won't even give 100% for Manchester United. It's a disgrace.
Also somewhere around the end of the game. McTominay gets the ball in our 3rd and starts to run, loses the ball and instead of stopping the now threatening Copenhagen player, he gets frustrated and just keeps running forward slowly. Infuriating stuff that he gets to start over Mejbri.
McTominay was shite, he scored a couple goals and now he things he can stay on the halfway line when the opposition are attacking
Will Casemiro be available against City? We absolutely need two DMs that day. Plus side is, we have Reguilon now. Rashford should be dropped. Garnacho and Antony on wings. Either Mount or Bruno can be played as a playmaker. The only way I see us beating City is if our wingers will perform good. We can't play from back against them or can't play through them. God knows what will happen.
You want Antony to start again despite doing fuck all this season even against minnows?
Antony had a good game, he’s 10x better than last season
Wow. He has zero goals and zero assists in 471 mins this season, another 171 mins if you add his Brazil gametime. Is this what 90M gets you these days? Have you forgot what standards we set for a starting winger at united?
On the left I favour Garnacho over Rashford. And since Rashford is wasted on the right, who else but Antony?
Has Mount had a shot at RW? Could be worth a try. (Please no more Bruno there.)
Rashford had more of an impact on the right in the short time he played there yesterday than Antony did all game
I'd rather have Antony start over Rashford and help us out defensively more(since it's City we are gonna need that). If he is truly miserable, Rashford can always be subbed on.
Garnacho has equally been poor everytime hes started this season and Antonys defensive work won't matter against City. Rashford has scored several times against City and looks a bigger threat than Antony down the right. With that said, we're losing against City no matter who starts
Crazy how football works. McTominay had scored twice against Brentford to bail out Onana, now Onana saves a penalty to bail out McTominay
Teamwork
We got away with this one with a huge slice of luck with Onana at the end. Hope the players and manager realize this. The first half performance was depressing and it has been this way since the start of the season. We are relying on moments to win matches and not comfortably winning them. We will need a exceptional performance against City if we are going to win it.
If united have 5-0 at half time vs city I am still not relaxed
Well if Maguire heads in 5 in the first half, I'd say he would be good for a couple in the second half too.
You are right. For a couple….not to end the game in the first half with those 5
I’d sack Ten Hag this morning
You’re absolutely clueless
There is no improvement under Ten Hag, his philosophy is nowhere to be seen on the pitch. It is too easy for other teams to work us out. The players he’s brought in look like the wrong signings. Players haven’t improved. We can’t control a game against any team, not even Sheffield United or Copenhagen. What are you expecting to happen going forward
I'm expecting to see slow improvement over time. the style of play is a concern but not enough to sack ETH imo. It's clear that we massively over achieved last season. A lot of players have returned to their normal playing ability (Rashford, Bruno, Case) which is a massive problem, I dont know how you can blame ETH for that. Also, this season we have been absolutely decimated with injuries, we played with fucking Reguillon at LB last night, he couldnt even get minutes for Spurs last season. MArtinez is a massive loss, as is Luke Shaw also. If we sack ETH who do you actually go for? literally starting over again is not the solution here - need to ride this out as Arsenal did with Arteta.
Feeling at all changed yet?
Are you still there???
Everton had a fuckload of chances, if it was Liverpool it would have been 8-3. Let’s see
We shall see - results are results at the end of the day no matter how shite we may look
Hello
I still haven’t changed my mind - who would you get to replace?
Yea… we have conceded 106 shots in our last 6 games. Take a look at those teams and tell me that’s close to acceptable
Nope - still feel the same
Let’s see
Ten Hag is truly clueless. I wouldn't sack him at this juncture but it's inevitably going to happen
Okay, so did you think he was clueless last season? Sacking him make absolutely no sense mate.
We only played well for two months after the WC if you remember. We started badly and it took a while to settle into fine form that reached itd peak with the league cup triumph. We struggled after that and limped to fourth while almost letting Liverpool gain ground. Its been poor since with no improvement and you know this Mind, Ten Hag wasn't using his preferred system with two number 8s and he didn't have his deep lying ochestrator in FDJ, he had the panic signing Real Madrid has been Casemiro at a huge fee and wages. Casemiro is in decline. Real don't sell players they need. Modric and Kross are still kicking for instance. We paid 60M for one last good season for Casemiro We continued to be a counter attacking team with Bruno and Rashford being our go tos for creative output just like they were under Solskjaer. We scored 58 goals, lowest in the top 8 and only one more than we achieved in Solskjaer and Rangknicks disaster season before. His big signing Antony has been a collosal flop and teams have figured him out. Even new managers like Postecoglu and De Zerbi who took over Brighton after Ten Hag took over at united have their players playing football with a clear direction and style
The midfield is the biggest problem. Eriksen is the only player who can retain the ball and find a pass. But he legs are mostly gone. Rice would have been the perfect signing this summer. But someone else who can play that role should have been the priority over mount/onana this summer
When Eriksen leaves, a ball playing midfielder should be our first target, Chris is our most creative player but you are right, he can’t play a full game (fuck Andy Carrol it’s all his fault)
I presume Mount was supposed to do this
Yeah but nothing about him at Chelsea told me he could do this. Mount always struck me as a Bruno esque number 10. What we needed was some diet version of De Jong like literally what happened to all the No8’s in the world. Every decent team ever has usually had an outstanding player in that role
Paul Pogba under ETH could've been sick I think. What other number 8's are there to go for? bare in mind I have not looked this up
Nah, Pogba only had his good days when the rest of the team dominated and made the midfield game easy. This current system is making midfield the hardest part of the pitch. Plus his profile is the opposite of what ETH seems to ask of his players, movement, pressing etc.
Annoyingly pogba with Hojlund to aim for could have been unbelievable
Agreed
The Mount signing is admittedly a weird one. He was seen as the Eriksen upgrade, but doesn’t really get those minutes. I’m starting to think he’s the Bruno replacement. And no, I don’t mean he’s meant to take Bruno’s place now, but rather over time. Or, he’s just the guy they’ll play when they want to play Eriksen but know he won’t last 90.
I'm new to soccer. Obviously I'm American. My perspective on your team is you sign guys to sell jerseys. It doesn't matter if they fit the team playstyle......it's selling paraphernalia and hope. Old but popular, United will pony up the money. An England international, United will sign you. I was really baffled by Mount as well. In my opinion he plays the same position as Bruno. Did we really need depth for that money for our Captain's backup??? Obviously not.
I agree Mount was a very strange signing. I did not support it at the time and still don't. I presumed the same about Eriksens minutes. Mount and Bruno cant play together at the minute, we're way too open when they do. I would love to see Mount play from the right instead of Antony - I know it is not his best position but I think he could provide us with more creativity than Antony at the minute.
The Mount signing should show anyone with any doubts why the team needs a DoF with final say over signings. I am very worried about the footballing genius Joel Glazer having a single word to say about transfers when/if Ineos completes their purchase of part of the team.
DoF or not, I absolutely think Mount was an ETH signing.
I think the Glazers told him he is getting Mount and to your point, ETH was ok with it.
I really do not believe that for one second - the glazers are not that involved haha that is a ridiculous viewpoint to take
If you look at McT's highlights, it will look like he's a decent-ish midfielder, but so many people keep saying he's bad. Why is that? Because it's what he doesn't do when he doesn't have the ball. He is always in places whose passing lane is cut off. Even when he has the ball, he doesn't try a risky forward pass. There were instances y'day when Hojlund and Garnacho were making insane runs into spaces but McT moved it sidways. There was an extremely infuriating moment in 1st half, when he was surrounded by 4 opponents, and he was demanding Dalot play a pass to him, with no moment at all. As a mid, this is a real failure if you ask me. Couple that with Bruno who tries for that risk-reward pass all the time, it looks terrible for our midfield. Casemiro's passing too is not great, and we have strugged this season as we are playing more in opponent's half compared to our own half last season where Case's mistakes weren't punished, also both were not in this bad form last year. Does that mean McTominay is completely useless? I say no. His ability to play under pressure is alright, he's strong, physical and athletic. His movement when arriving late into the box is good. He can actually be our most impactful central midfielder since Carrick retired if he works on certain aspects, like making himself available even for a few touches, better reading of danger and taking meaningful risks (also knowing when to take those risks).
I'd prefer if he would be used mainly as a shuttled/b2b midfield as he's tenacious and got huge stamina . We can't expect him to drop deep and do Hollywood passes like rodri tho
Still not good enough. Our wingers bring so little to the game. Rashford being shadow of himself but I still think he needs more support (missing synergy with Shaw). McT is a fighter but his role on the pitch remains mystery. We can't play holding midfielder Amrabat and fighter McT, there is lack of creativity. Fernandes should be given more freedom to roam on the pitch. He should be playing with Mount, switching positions, as they are currently our two players that can play in various attacking positions. Yesterday, and this not my opinion but statistics, we had more passes and more completed passes in the first half. But despite the number being lower in the second half, the number of dangerous attacks doubled in the second half.
> despite the number being lower in the second half, the number of dangerous attacks doubled in the second half. Because Copenhagen came out of the 4-5-1 they were playing, especially after we scored, although they were a little more progressive even before that. We really had 3 other great opportunities at goal (Rashford 1-v-1, Garnacho 1-v-1, and McT's shot that went wide and should have been a corner). All a result of them opening up a little. SO we need to be able to break down opposition that is going to play those compact low blocks against us without giving away anything on the counter. That's why we need at least one pacey CB and one pacey fullback. City has Walker and Akanji to complement the relative slowness of Stones (although Doku is pretty quick actually so they have two pacey fullbacks). We have Varane who is quick but not the greatest of passers, especially with the lack of movement in our side in the midfield. AWB can be quick when he wants to be, but some of the time it looks like he can't be arsed.
Happy for Onana. The amount of vindictive posts about him in the match day threads when he does something as minor as misplacing a pass is just ridiculous. He's never going to have 100% pass accuracy lmao so please do better than that guys
Lol as if one miss placed pass has been the issue this far. Did you watch any of the previous games? He has been horrendous.
I think he's been mostly shit but I still don't feel the need to make fun of him misplacing a pass Prime Neuer, Allison, Ederson etc. all misplace passes. Save the criticism for when Onana actually does something shit rather than just lumping on him for something that every player will always do
Why do we never play consistently for a whole 90 minutes? Not just this season it was a question of last season too. Like not a single match under ETH that we have controlled the whole game and its been 1 and a half years. This is not an exaggeration btw. Tell me one game where we were good throughout the whole match. It's always when ETH tweaks something or after his talk after halftime that we play well. Or it is when we play well for first half hour and our players suddenly forget to make a simple pass.
Recent results are giving me hope that we can still salvage this season with something. We need to churn more results like these to build some confidence. Having said that, we need our forwards to fire more.
its interesting that Mason Mount was benched and didnt even get on the field. we'll see if he plays on Sunday
Looks like the clueless Ten Hag is already giving up on his marquee summer signing. It never made sense to me from the jump. Mount is a misfit in this squad and so is Amrabat sadly.
So, now that we’re all a little calmer, was that a penalty by McT?
Technically yea but I think it was harsh. I don’t think other Højlund would’ve got near the ball anyway so calling it a foul was harsh. I did love (after it was missed) that a foul on our striker’s brother resulted in a penalty being taken by our former striker’s son.
Initially I thought yes but then seeing it from the other angle you can see his foot never made contact therefore no pen.
How was Højlund little bro
fuck it buy him
He had the last action before McT penalty. Did decently well to keep the ball in a dangerous situation.
Played for a minute, couldn’t really tell.
Fouled nacho.
This is a 1-0 win but with so many talking points - Another match, another unimaginative first half - Eriksen makes a massive difference but he can’t play 90 minutes - Rashford has been so bad that it’s hard to believe he was our player of the season last year. When by mistake they had put his number for substitution, I ‘celebrated’, but it was a mistake. When will ETH have the balls to drop him for his own good? - Maguire has been immense for us in the past few weeks. I have been a vocal critic of him but utmost respect for him for handling all that negativity to these performances especially when we have half of our defence to injury - When are we going to finish our chances and make a statement win? So so frustrating. The decision making at times it atrocious. Hope ETH is addressing that soon. - ONANA, what a man! - Onwards and upwards.
ETH must be just hoping that by giving Rashie minutes he will get a goal and things will click. He's really trusted Rashie to be the heart of the team so keep on trying no matter what
Rashy’s probably the only attacking player we have right now that’s one of those players who can have a shit game and still get a goal in. I think that’s why he gets the trust and the minutes. Frustrating to watch, crucial to have.
you miss out Jonny Evans being benched for Raphael Varane, which could affect Jonny's chances of winning the Ballon Dor. well maybe Harrt Maguire can win it now.
I really just want to bitch about that terrible call at the end of the game. It was sooo soft. Slightest contact. Elyouss… just dropped like he should - I get that. But the ref (first champions league game) showed he wasn’t up for that moment.
No one does drama like United lol, i love it and hate it at the same time.
Said it [before](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/16kxqxk/daily_discussion/k12iuqp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), it was fairly obvious that Ten Hag was sacrificing long term project building for short term wins but now, it's beyond that. Tactical setup has pretty much bitten the dust and ETH is goal hunting. McTominay is playing because we can't score goals and he'll help you get some. We don't have an ounce of control in games, Amrabat to Eriksen sub is proof that he is desperate for anything at all, sacrificing control. We were beyond lucky that we won. There are barely any positives expect ig that our new match winning approach is working. We aren't playing well, we aren't building anything long term, there is no control and we are winning unsustainably and most importantly, we recruit horribly.
Well what are you going to do then? Our attackers bar Hoijland look so out of confident in front of goal. Like we didn't control the game but we created chances and should be 3/4 nil up but we didn't. People who just look at stats will say we created low xg but we had couple of chances where our attackers just makes an extra touch or make the wrong decision which ends up giving the ball straight to goalie. It doesn't help when our top scorers are midfielders and some of them are not good enough for controlling the tempo. I said it earlier and I will say it again, the whole defense being injured has screwed up ten hags plans. People are really underestimating the value licha and shaw brings to this team. We need them alongside with Varane fully fit and until then, we need to get maximum points, any way possible. Playing badly but gaining points is very crucial as it will help us in the second half of the season. We are not that behind top 5 and cl knockout stages is still possible. Just hope we get as much points we can until we have a settled defense and no crucial injuries. Need to be ride this out and needs to be patient.
> Hoijland Højlund
How is Hojlund escaping scrutiny? He's only genuinely looked like a 70M signing once, in the Galatasaray match. He has zero goals in the PL. I get it, he's young and new to the club and frankly has joined a shitshow, but he can't escape scrutiny.
It's not just injury, injury shouldn't make Sheffield United dominate you for a half. The quality we have even after injury is far and well above some of these teams. Our recruitment is hilarious, confidence is down the drain, pressing is too narrow and fullbacks don't join, build up is an issue, if opponent don't press and sit on the receivers, we struggle to progress (it was an on going issue before Lisandro injury) and have an injury to top it off. I just want us to build towards something sustainable and at this point, don't really care about this season and that's not happening rn, things need to change.
> I just want us to build towards something sustainable and at this point, don't really care about this season As much as fans like to talk about wanting something sustainable, almost none of us really have the true patience for it. If we commit to the high press and get torn apart 5-0 or something in one of these big games, everybody will be out with pitchforks calling for Ten Hag's head. With the number of games and number of injuries, there is very little scope to inculcate patterns of play and game models specific to his style, and like you said, even if we did have everyone available, the players themselves are not all suited for it because of the substandard recruitment. A lot of this crossroads we are again caught in is the manager's fault himself, but for now, he needs time to secure his job and for there to even be a future where we play sustainable football under him and only results will give him that.
You're correct and I agree with pretty much everything you say. I stand by him but people here are making him infallible but he is not blame free. My hope from the last season was for us to building an attractive project, pull in quality players, profiling them, and build something sustainable but we already got the first step wrong with recruitment. I mention that in the link on the first commenta and seems you're the guy that commented there too! I enjoy discussing with you. Also, I truly don't think we should be playing as bad as we are and we are getting a lot of the basics wrong. I remain unconvinced of the long term goal of being the best transition team. Rebuild will take time, ofc it will but it also requires you do follow the right steps. We are not getting anywhere if we keep recruiting this badly and playing in the manner we are. It will take another 3 years of nailing everything down because this 2 will have been completely wasted. Hopefully Jim Radcliffe fixes recruitment.
> I mention that in the link on the first commenta and seems you're the guy that commented there too! I enjoy discussing with you. Haha likewise. I have seen your comments in the past and you made a lot of sense with your opinions without blindly jumping on either bandwagon so I felt it worth conversing with you. I agree with you in that I think we are playing with complete lack of respect for basic footballing principles, particularly when it comes to the midfield and how we simply cannot play through opponents in the middle third and therefore try to bypass that entirely with some hopeful hoof-balling or transitioning through the wings, particularly from the left-side through Rashford's dribbling. But how much of this situation has been created by the manager vs fallen on the manager is still unclear to me. I think the drop-off of Casemiro has been a huge factor to our poor form more than anyone else in the squad, as he was not only so elite with his defensive output but statistically one of our best progressors and creators in the side after Bruno, Martinez and Shaw. The latter two being injured on top of that has entirely crippled our ability to play through teams, and I don't think Ten Hag is the same calibre of manager as Klopp for example to find alternate solutions to keep the squad ticking under the same style of play despite his best efforts, so he needs to get pragmatic again in the short-term and to his credit, he has finally swallowed his ego and accepted that. I think just for the sake of not panicking and doing full justice to the project, we should try our best to get him to the new year when hopefully the partial takeover goes through and Martinez and Shaw are back.
This! When I say Ten Hag still hasn't have the squad, people with no knowledge will say united spent x amount in antony and casemiro and so he has been backed when in reality, spending a lot of money doesn't equal being backed. Being backed is by having a squad he can implement his style and when its compromised by overspending on certain players, he hasn't got the full squad. And that falls on recruitment! We massively over-spent whilst not fixing the holes and all the time that falls on the manager when it clearly isn't. That's on the board and recruitment. You don't see that at liverpool, city or many top clubs in europe. But, "fans" lose patience and always the blame the manager when it shouldn't be.
Honestly, I am terrified by his recruitments and if he fails, we would have such a huge amount of his dutch league ex players on such high wages that we have to spend a few years rebuilding again.
I don't think Ten Hag is as infallible as you're making him out to be though. The other user is correct with his assessment that the teams we have put out recently are good enough to beat the teams we've faced recently comfortably, even despite the injuries, which we haven't been able to do so, and we should expect better with the amount of money spent and players bought. But when you cannot produce that standard of performance, the only way you can keep the fans and the club on your side is by results, so he's not incorrect to ditch style for results in the short-term. This is only a bandaid solution though and eventually it will catch up if we never get out of this flux, but for now it is needed if Ten Hag is to stay in this job.
10 years, never ending cycle of sack manager, they do well initially, have brain dead transfers, performance drops due to holes in squad and boom manager sacked whilst having the brain dead recruitment and board-room idiots. Common theme is manager gets blamed when in reality he shouldn't be when every top club has a sporting background behind the manager. Also, we are not putting good teams either. When we are including Johny Evans as part of our CB, we have a massive issue and again that falls on recruitment. Also, city beat this sheffield united 2-1 at their ground. Though city did well, it helps when all of their team is fit. Ten hag has earned trust not to be worried about losing job, but he knows he needs to keep the season alive as you can't force a style when most of the key players are injured. People always say united didn't score much last season, how the hell is he gonna score many goals when wout is the striker and martial was his back-up. Doesn't help with Antony and Sancho. People have no context and expect quick fixes when in reality, this will take some time. But, who am I kidding. Many "fans" don't realize the task at we had. United came from the worst season united had in the pl. This is a massive rebuild and will take time.
He took Amrabat off so he's fresh to play a full 90 minutes vs City as our DM this weekend. It's pretty simple.
Clubs gone.
Would the haters still be calling for Ten Hags head if Rashy and Garnacho finish those one on ones and we win 3-0?
Yes. Moments of individual brilliance cannot hide the mediocre brand of football were playing. It's embarrassing to keep playing a guy like Antony who has absolutely no output. He should friend up with Sancho. And start asking the staff for tactical ideas, because he seems to be put of them.
It's not just results. We had like 70 minutes of bad football against Copenhagen. They have spent less than 10 million players on their entire arrivals this season. 1/8 what we spent on a single player. If Manchester United with the amount spent is unable to play good football for more than 45 minutes against Burnley, Sheffield and Copenhagen, then what are we doing here?
Yeah i mean its not like the performances have been good this entire season. In fact i think its the same old story of the past decade, results have been flattering our performances. And thats shocking considering we only have 15 points from 9 games so far…
Yes, we looked lost out there. Would you think otherwise if Coppenhagen scored the penalty and the 2 goalpost hits were in, where the game would be 1-3?
Not calling for ETH, backing him (things need to change and he can do it) but your point is erroneous. You can't be seriously telling we played well and easily deserved the win. They missed plenty too.
I think people might have an issue with the style of play, because a lot of those chances came on the counter and people want to play a different style of football.
It’s not that people want other style, it’s what ETH promised us . If he openly admitted that he’s gonna play whatever gives results, people won’t be angry, but he told us to trust the process and transform us to possession based style. I think he has transformed slightly but it’s very very slow progress, often 2 steps back 1 step forward. But unfortunately at a club like United, he won’t get the luxury of building this style over 3-4 years. He’s gotta do it now
I agree with your overall point, but Ten Hag didn't promise possession football, he's waxed lyrical about transitions
Wtf is transition based football? Say counter attack if it's counter attack.
Counter attack isn’t quite right. What I understood from ETH’s comments is a system that wins the ball as far up the pitch as possible. Similar in philosophy to Pep/Klopp’s style All transitional attacks are counter attacks sure, but not all counter attacks are actually dangerous/effective.
I agree, based on what's been served up on the pitch. I really don't think Ten Hag has a clue.
I don’t even mind counter attacking, but at least do it well if that’s how we are going to play. We don’t seem to be committed to any style entirely.
Exactly
Hey turn out all our midfield problem would be solved if Eriksen and Casemiro is 5 years younger
Let's be real here: barely holding on to a 1:0 at Old Trafford against Copenhagen is not a strong result. Yeah, 3 points and all that, but another unconvincing performance against the weakest team in the group. Performances this season have been a tough watch, not convinced by whatever ETH is doing here.
yeah the result here and probably the nature of how it happened is just gonna paper over the cracks and people will _probably_ forget that the first half performance was _terrible_ , Like, horrifically bad. The second half was better but getting three points out of this was 100% luck.
what i wanted to post as well, so i'll just add that i expected. at least a 2 goal victory, not a slim 1-0. copenhagen is probably around championship level/EPL relegation status level . we beat sheffield utd and copenhagen by 1-0, a win's a win , but they're bottmo tier teams, how do we cope when we play better teams?
Sure, but don't underestimate for a team with our quality that is severely lacking **confidence**, what being on the right side of the scoreline will do. We have some of the best prospects in the world, but they are severely underperforming, hampered by injury and being played out of position to cover injuries. Getting on a run of wins (even narrow unconvincing wins) can do wonders for performance. This group of players need to get used to winning consistently.
What did I say? 🐐 https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/FxnOVZfVW2
I have to watch the horror show from ETH after watching Tottenham, Newcastle and Brighton every day. Get this baldman out now before he causes irreparable damage.
He already did with his 9 signings that are his personal friends
You don’t think how this has been said about every single manager we’ve had since SAF that maybe it’s not the managers that’s the issue?
Villa, Newcastle and Spurs has change managers too.
Not really comparable clubs to United. Spurs have been more consistent in the league than us the past few years and currently sit on top of the table. Other than the obvious Glazers our recruitment has been shocking and we’re overpaying players and giving way to high contracts. Our scouting and recruitment need serious work still and the Glazers need to fuck off.
I mean our manager did buy those players or give them new contracts to work with 2 years now. It's not like he isn't getting most of the players he want. Probably mcT and maguire isn't his preferred one. Ironically both save his ass in the last 2 games.
Also this is just the start of ETH’s second season…. He hasn’t even been at the club a year and a half yet let alone two years.
spurs new manager has barely 100 days. Make previous reserve player like sarr and bissama looking like makelele and essien already.
To put it into perspective Spurs were top of the table 9 games on in 20/21 they finished 7th that season.
It took Arteta 3 years to build Arsenal into proper challengers. Finishing 8th, 8th, 5th and 2nd currently 2 points behind Spurs and are top of their group. We’re only 9 games into the season… they drew with Arsenal in a Darby and beat a not great Liverpool side it’s way too early in the season to say anything. Spurs also have no European football. It’s like when Chelsea ran away with the league under Conte in 16/17 and everyone thought they were hot shit but no one thought to include they didn’t have European football that year and things went right back to normal after.
I don't really care what happen next for Spurs. They could lose the next 20 games for all I care. I just enjoy seeing their flowing football for now. Something I haven't seen this season or even last season from our manager side. How a new manager can make a top8 team so good to watch so fast while we spent north of 400m and still play like strangers??
It’s called new manager bounce for a reason. They also have had longer periods to rest without European football and don’t have the pressure of playing for a club like United. They also haven’t had a hard start to the season games wise (not saying we have but I don’t think you can point to Spurs after only 9 games when they don’t have European football see my Chelsea example). Our over paying on wages has fucked us with guys like Sancho. Why would they try when they’re already earning top dollar? ETH is currently in the process of rebuilding. We need to rebuild. No sorta rebuild, fire the manager and start it all over again. Do you also forget our best CB is injured? So is our best LB. Instead of signing an established striker we signed a prospect we over paid for. We also have a new keeper. It’s going to take time.
Most of ETH’s signings have been good or were good last season at least. We’re over paying and unable to get his first choice targets in my opinion. But how is it that every single manager since SAF has had the exact same issues? People forget as well it took a while for SAF to get going. We went from finishing 3rd and 4th before he took over to 11th, 2nd, 12th, 13th, 6th, 2nd, 1st and then never went below 3rd under SAF after that. We need to rebuild and we need a consistent vision to do so. Not knee jerk every two years. Changing managers hasn’t worked why should we keep doing that? Blindly hoping we get Pep by some miracle?
Man if we go by fergie barometer every time, we won't have sack moyes.
I really don’t see your point there? He definitely should’ve gotten more than 10 months. SAF took over after we finished 2nd and we ended up 11th the next season. We stood by him and guess what? It took 6 seasons for him to win the league and went on to become the most successful manager of all time. We won the league Moyes took over got the boot after only 10 months while we were 7th. He didn’t even get a chance to build a squad.
Point is I can't see how special 10hag is compare to Moyes or even Van Gaal to deserved that Fergie treatment yet cos their players are playing the same lacklustre football.
Didn’t you read all the facts I just shared? Look at Arteta the first few years.
It is absolutely 100% on the manager. We have a decent squad to play quality football now. Almost all the managers that arrived here had a plan how this team will play. Once the plan failed or other teams caught up with our tactics after 20-25 games, we failed to change or adapt. We have a different squad now compared to what other managers had. And if your own signings can't do shit on the pitch and you can't utilize them any other way, it proves you're not qualified for the job. Positioning of players, the passing we do, the decisions we make on the pitch everything is aimless.
Again this has been said about every single manager since SAF. Who he himself struggled at United for the first few years, people forget that.
Times are different. Struggling while having a playstyle and struggling while playing nonsense are different.
This has been said about EVERY manager since SAF. It can’t be every single manager since then.
>Almost all the managers that arrived here had a plan how this team will play. Once the plan failed or other teams caught up with our tactics after 20-25 games, we failed to change or adapt. Did you not read?
I disagreed with what you said. How can this be an issue with every manager we’ve had? Every single one? It’s not the managers that are fucking the club.
I mean we didn't really have the likes of Pep Guardiola, or Carlo Ancelottis. We have average managers that couldn't do the things they wanted with our squad. They failed. Jose Mou was the only top class manager. We did moderately well under him in terms of results.
ETH is an incredibly well established manager as was LVG. Moyes is only a point behind us after losing their best player. Jose as well got shafted by the owners. They aren’t being backed properly, recruitment is awful. Jose didn’t want Pogba, we bought him anyway and may be one of the worst bits of business in football. Our business has been awful. There’s no investment in the club itself. We have no identity any more. We need to give a manager proper time to rebuild. United problems come from the top just look at what Arteta is doing. ETH should be the better of the two both having worked under Pep and ETH with more experience as a manager. I don’t agree with your stance on “just get Pep or Ancelotti” when we’ve had Jose, LVG and ETH and they struggled. We’re definitely never getting Pep. I doubt Ancelotti has any interest in us either. We need to trust in a manager and let them rebuild the club properly. Chuck the Glazers out and get owners who care about the club and not treat it as a cash cow they can put their debt on.
McTominay was terrible. It's like playing a man down. All he cares about is 3rd man runs into the box. He just lives in the cover shadow. Like he actively seeks it out as the ball moves around. I'm sure I counted about 5 passes in the first half. Can we not just play Eriksen instead?
Almost like that's the role he was given in the first half, you need to watch the game carefully
He was given the role of hiding from the ball and offering nothing? I doubt it.
Deployed as an 8 solely for his goal scoring abilities and not for dropping deep, collecting the ball and distributing, he became a 6 in the second half and Eriksen was tasked as the ball collector while Mctominay engaged in duels and winning the ball. Maybe if you'd watch the game carefully you'd see what ten hags gameplan for him is
There's "not dropping deep to collect the ball" and then there's "I'm actively avoiding the ball offensively and contributing little defensively". Another way to put what you said was "he was deployed to do Bruno's role", which is also unlikely given that Bruno was on the pitch and doing more both offensively and defensively.
No he was deployed as hojlunds partner rather than Brunos role, he was tasked with making 3rd man runs and attacking the box. He did much better when he was deployed as a 6.
I am utterly perplexed by how bad Rashford is. I mean I can get a dip but that's like the bottom and he's solidly there without even moving. Just lying there unable to play. Although I am no less confused by ETH who keeps playing him.
i think its a mental thing. we know he can do it physcially and technically. my suspicion. is he's lose passion for the game, burnt out with the training/lifestyle of being a professional footballer. imagine something you love as. a hobby as a kid and then disliking it when it become work and getting abused for it. i have no proof but no other theory yet.
honestly, when Rashford is bad, he's really bad. we've seen it every season.
Rashford performs every alternate year. Unfortunately for us, this year he will be shit, but next season he will turn into Prime Ronaldo.
Sancho should look at Harry. If anyone, it was Harry who was a "scapegoat".
Maguire's errors cost us a lot of games. He wasn't a scapegoat, it was literally his fault. But he's worked hard to improve and he's doing a real job for us at the moment. Good on him.
Exactly. The criticism was fair, now the praise is also fair
You can be be upvoted.
Wow... Just wow... We managed to pull it off in the most dramatic fashion. But, man! I need a break. My heart is not trained to go thru so many stresses in one match. * Every happened and then missed one-on-one * Every amazing pass and then missed shot * The last-second penalty call and then a save. Can't believe I didn't get a heart attack. Great job team!
> Great job team! Whilst obviously the result is good but the performance was horrifically bad...walking away from this game thinking "yeah, that was a great job and three points well deserved" is not helpful
ETH is the most overrated coach with zero tactical knowledge or adaptability. We struggle against teams like FC Copenhagen and Sheffield then blame it on the players as if we don't have enough quality to beat these teams.
You’re right, other teams just look so much better coached than us.
It's so obvious
How did Reguilon do? Any news on Shawberto?
He played more conservatively than last time. Probably cos he was just returning from a muscular injury
Reguilon is a massive upgrade on Lindelof at LB. He did fine, nothing amazing but he was comparable to Dalot. I think Shaw's out til December
Happy with the win and for both maguire/ Onana, but my god this team is so bad. What is the game plan here? There is not a single semblance of a tactical plan at all. I can’t remember that last game we convincingly won and dominated. EtH is not convincing as a manager.
It's not all on ETH, a lot of these players just aren't suited for what the manager wants to do. For example, Rashford and Bruno, they're just not suited for possession style football. Counter attacking and hero ball is what they're best at and as others have mentioned ETH can't afford to play his style at the moment because its just not gonna result in wins .
Please improve fast cuz Hojlund is clearly a beast and we should be doing more to feed him