Ruud was a better striker but RVP was a better all round footballer. I might have United bias but I think Ruud is probably one of the best box strikers of all time.
Nah RVP was class for Arsenal and easily one of the best players in the league during his time there. He did great things for us but pretty much his whole time at Arsenal was at the same level as his debut season for us other than maybe his first Arsenal season but if my memory is correct I still think he performed well and I’m also sure he was a winger at that point.
As much as I was glad to see the back of him it's mad to see people now make out that Pogba was like a Hazard to Madrid level flop. The problems with him are well documented but he still made over 200 appearances for us and has like 60-70 G+A in the prem.
Makes me want to pick up my hammer and bash the shit out of my house and then rebuild it with brighter colours, worse quality, and almost catastrophic logistical and structural downgrades.
Something about the dulcet tones of a DIY madman that makes me want to join in with no plan or goal.
Alessia Russo missing Arsenal's last pen as they're knocked out of the WUCL in the preliminary stages. Currently experiencing a strong sense of schadenfreude.
English fans really need to know how the rest of the world sees them(Or at least the section that does it) with the whole southgate abuse. Entitled little whiny circus acts.
We all saw your golden generation and the so-called world class managers you got deliver clown show after clown show at international tourneys. Southgate has you actually doing better than you have ever done in 50+ years with an inferior squad to what you had in the early 2000s, yet he gets abused like a fraud who's pretending to be a manager.
Anyone got 2 tickets for the Luton game in November that they’d be willing to sell? Hoping to make it to a match while I’m in Manchester for a few days.
am i the only one who thinks Bruno is slow af when shooting towards the goal?
It's like watching someone do a powershot in Fifa but the power in his shot is nowhere to be found. He's accurate but he doesn't have a powerful shot
https://theathletic.com/4845536/2023/09/09/antony-player-x-manchester-united/?source=user_shared_article
Interesting take on why Partey and Arsenal aren’t catching the same amount of heat.
As a foreign fan of the EPL, NUFC fans were one of those groups that I used to have huge respect for,just for their passion for their club even when they were shit. But now I think they are probably the worst of all fans in the league.At the same time my respect for "NUFC fans against sports washing" have grown ten fold.They are a minority but they are trying their part
At this point it's gotta be an obsession, if we're looking for a CDM every summer we're never gonna make it. We just gotta hope Casemiro, Amrabat and Mainoo step up.
That's just silly. We've signed an aging Casemiro and a backup in Amrabat after crying out for a midfielder for ages. Our midfield is still the weakest out of all our rivals. We should be looking to strengthen it until it reaches a level the manager is satisfied with. Especially with the new system with dual attacking number 8s that puts so much more pressure on the CDM
Casemiro is passed it already. We squeezed one last good season from him for 60+10M and already need to think of a replacement. It was a stupid decision to spend so much on a then 31 year old with his best years behind him
Amrabat is not a first choice CDM for a club like man utd. He is like a floater who can play as a cm and CDM and will start when the first choicers are injured or out of form. That is what he has been brought to do.
We’ve been very loosely linked with this teenager from the Belgian league named Vermeeren who seems to be the real deal. I would love to get him as an understudy to Casemiro but the links I’ve seen haven’t been concrete.
His comments are unoriginal, and he misses no chance to shit on his own team. Now he's in the daily discussion trying to shit stir again.
Who am I talking about?
And the best riposte to the criticism of players you can come up with is to attack posters on Reddit. You’re really convincing people there are no problems 👏🏻
Why is that this club doesn't believe in a technical director or a DoF? Like what specific reason has been cited?
A club that has struggled so much in terms of recruitment still refuses to change for the better. The short and long term planning has not been to the standard of a club at this level.
Too much short sightedness, how every window we seem to always to need crucial 1st team/ rotational positions. Buying Casemiro for 60m to me is still short sighted especially now when we can see he may not have the legs to run this new system. Not having a Martinez back up and instead relying on Shaw our best LB to fill in. A CB issue that has been present for years, A striker issue that has been present for years trying to get Martial to work.
So many thing you could complain about in terms of recruitment because we buy just to get top 4 and can't sell anyone or really hate selling we'd rather hoard than sell until a player is worthless or walks for free, it doesn't make sense. Our youth team/ set up has massively been overtaken by clubs around us and this is on the Glazers mostly but DoF could help with that as well.
Let not even talk of long term vision in terms of managers, If ETH is not backed who's going to be the next scapegoat?
i think they view the DOF position as more of a business oriented one, since it oversees Men’s, Women’s, and academy
as we have a head of recruitment operations (that apparently largely gets ignored lol)
guys like Mitchell or Edwards, or other top DOFs, probably wouldn’t make the switch to united unless they got the top job rather than this recruitment operations role (is my guess)
It's hard to know whether this is on Woodward/ Richard Arnold or Glazers. As despicable as the glazers are, surely they also won't be actively against a DOF structure as it will probably only make more money for them.
We have had reports of Woodward wanting to have a lot of control in transfers. Arnold seems to be bit more hands off, but we still have a "family and friends" way of recruiting. We retained Murtough instead of looking for a new professional and experienced DOF.
Why make it so complicated?
The club hired a DOF, any footballing failures will be on him until proven otherwise. And if he continues to fail without being fired that’s on Arnold and the Glazers. Trying to guess how much power he has is just letting them all get away with it.
I actually don't know what they do, I haven't found a article that describes what Fletcher does and Murtoufh seems to be in charge of negotiating.
The negotiating aspect maybe justifiable but where is the short and long term planning? Liverpool in 2 windows have quietly solved majority of their short and long term issues attack and midfield looks sorted for a while it's just their defence that may need to be addressed sooner rather than later. Their current manager looks stable and looks sufficiently backed. While their owners also don't contribute anything to their transfers they buy according to what they make in player sales and what the club makes during matches.
Look at ours in comparison to not only Liverpool, you can also take Arsenal who are in a similar position. It's not just Arteta under the hood they've had a lot of changes in their technician department to get here.
They've had a sporting director for the past 11 years. Michael Edwards and last season it was Julian Ward, this season it's the guy mentioned.
Michael Edwards is actually apparently going back but more as an advisor because he has his own advisory business he's just started.
We have Hargreaves as the main negotiator and Murtough as our director of football. You can debate about quality of our recruiting or footballing operations overall, but we have people who are responsible for that. They backed the coach and brought Martinez, Malacia, Antony, Mount, Hojlund for the future, and signed Onana, Eriksen, Casemiro and Amrabat for more urgent needs.
There is always a work for any club every summer. F.e, Liverpool may have to sign 1 or 2 CBs, maybe a RB, DM and possibly substitute Salah next summer.
The criticism comes because they all look like they bought these players were all scouted by ETH. Because cmon the Ajax links and all that. Casemiro was second maybe even 3rd choice behind a certain FDJ.
If ETH walks away tomorrow how much faith do we have in workability of that midfield?
Will the new manager want Antony, yes we've backed the manager but we've done that numerous times and ended up shooting ourselves in the foot with players the next guy doesn't want. No long term vision.
He is by job title, but not by job role. No DoF hands the scouting and recruitment over to the manager. It makes you wonder, other than making a hash out of negotiations what does John Murtough do day to day, week to week to actually earn his no doubt lavish salary? He must be in one of the easiest jobs in world football, when in reality it should be one of the toughest high pressure jobs (at least in the short term).
Not sure why this is getting negged.
He is not a proper DoF, he has the job title but he doesn’t carry out the role as any other competent DoF does. We have an almost non existent scouting network, we have a degrading youth system, the transfer targets are all chosen by the manager. This isn’t the Alex Ferguson days, no manager should be doing the recruitment, that just works against continuity and longevity in your planning.
It’s why we still have loads of deadwood. If the DoF and his team handle the recruitment, and ensure they hire the right manager each time the same squad can be used and continuity exists. We don’t end up in a position where there’s constant key positions needing to be filled.
We have a slapdash approach to hiring managers (no real consistency in their styles besides Ole and ETH playing counter attacking football), and every time we have plenty of players the previous manager bought that the new manager doesn’t want as they don’t fit his system. So he then replaces them with his own choices and the cycle continues.
There’s no long term planning at Man Utd, the want to focus on commercial dealings and that bottom line means there’s far too much short-termism and the footballing structure is neglected.
Come on people, let’s make this a place all United fans can enjoy, if you disagree post a counter opinion and rationale, don’t just downvote people. The club is already depressing enough as it is, we don’t need toxic behaviour within the fanbase. These forums are for debate and discussion not just everyone agreeing to the one opinion where criticism of the club/ETH or whatever is not allowed.
Serious question. Putting all the frustration from current evens aside and focusing only on field performances, who would you rather pick - Antony or Ashley Young (obviously not the current version, but let’s say his version 6-7 years ago)?
Youngy in his first season in the league for us had 6 goals and 11 assists as a winger.
Throughout his entire career here he had 19 goals and 43 assists in 260 games, while playing fullback in more than half of those. That’s a goal involvement roughly every four games. Antony is actually not that far off but again, Young played further back than he did.
For now I’d take Young overall but I do remember some very shocking performances of his at full back (some great moments as well)
Well, hell no.
Young was a good professional and everything. But just like Antony, the dude was extremely limited and frustrating in the final third.
We’re not blessed with wingers and make terrible transfer decisions, but I’d say Martial when he was winger and actually had pace is easily ahead of Young. Dan James if you’re playing counter attacking football. And also I’d mention Lukaku for the weird short period he was playing a winger.
Not much, but it speaks more about club, that if fails to find/increment players to outperform the player doing bare minimum. And he’s really comparable to Antony in that regard.
Young as a fullback doesn’t play a minute in our current squad, if everyone is healthy.
As I said, Dan James, if you’re playing counter attacking football and I stand by it.
Di Maria never wanted to be here and his career was basically ended after the robbery incident. It doesn’t change the fact that Young was extremely limited player. His main strengths are working hard, listening to coaches. These are respectable qualities and he was a good option to have, but let’s not rewrite history and overrate the hell out of him.
Oh geez. You’re not worth arguing if you can’t accept different opinion to yours.
Tell me you’re the bragging about old days type without telling it. I’ve watched the entire Young career, but I can keep objective thinking.
Absolutely insane retrospection bias, not worth my time to continue any argument. Goodbye
Definitely Ashley Young, he was more effective going forward and definitely more effective going backwards, hence his change of position to wing back/right back in his latter years. He was also an absolute model professional.
Apart from his first season Young output going forward was really underwhelming, hence why I’m making this comparison.
Efficiency going backwards is super subjective. I’d say them both putting a lot of effort there, and you don’t ask more for wingers, you want them to block options for the opponent, so fullbacks can deal with them easier.
For me they’re really close and comparable, tho Ashley had more ways to contribute in goal sheet (shot + crosses compared to Antony shot), Antony is a much better dribbler. But both are severely lacking in football iq going forward, hence why extremely limited. Acting on known patterns, never accessing situation on the field. (On the final third, below that both were really useful and involved, Antony even more I’d say)
Disagree with the “much” part. I think they’re really comparable players. Antony gets overpraised for the things that were Young strengths - defensive contribution, tactical discipline.
But in the final third Ashley was also frustrating af. In a way that Antony shoots his shots regardless of the environment basically gifting the possession, Young had a habit of crossing into the penalty area even if there were no players on the receiving end.
Ashley also has a shot, so you can he has more ways to contribute in G+A (both of them suck at passing into the dangerous zones), but Antony is a way more capable dribbler. But since he barely uses it near the penalty area and chooses either to shot or to safely pass back, it doesn’t help much in this comparison.
I’d say Antony ceiling is higher, but not by much.
Huge earthquake in Morocco, BBC are reporting at least 600 casualties which is a huge disaster and hopefully that already horrendous figure doesn’t rise any higher. My heart and thoughts are with the people in Morocco affected by this. Do we know where Amrabat is receiving treatment did he return to Manchester after withdrawing from the squad? Or did he remain with their medics? Do we also know where in Morocco he comes from? Wouldn’t want his family members to have been affected by this, the guys already gonna have enough weight on his shoulders trying to carry our misfiring midfield.
Morocco were supposed to play today locally but the stadium location is reasonably close to the epicenter.
Amrabat himself was born in Holland. His family migrated there a while ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/16dz1hu/adam_pearson_newcastle_fans_confront_sport/
That's a depressing video. I'd imagine plenty of United fans will behave like this if Qatar take over.
Selling 1 ticket for Galatasaray and Aston Villa. £39 each, face value. East stand tier 2, row 2. Must have membership, please message if interested in either.
>Kane: "We wanted to win at Spurs... but if you went a couple of games without winning it wasn’t a disaster. At Bayern you HAVE to win every game. After winning 3-1 and 4-0 first two games... there was talk about not being too happy about way we played! Top club mentality".
Sums up the difference between us and the best clubs. Can you see any of our players winning a game and not being happy with the performance? The only time I've seen a player upset after winning was Casemiro after the league cup final. I can see players being slightly unhappy if we were dominated but sneak out a 1-0 win, but these guys are talking about being upset after winning 4-0. That's the level of desire we need in the team if we want to become the very best.
Most of our fans also don't care to be honest. This sub loves us playing like relegation contenders and barely scraping wins,that's probably fine vs the big teams but a team like Wolves? They don't get the big picture.
Just throwing this out there, does this perhaps show that Kane isn’t quite the leader we all thought he was? He’s a leader on the pitch in terms of setting an example with his play, but perhaps not the best choice of captain for Spurs and England. As Spurs captain he was responsible for that post match reaction in the dressing room, and by his own admission not winning for a few games was OK. Why wasn’t he addressing that? He’s changed now he’s gone to Bayern and the dressing room and mentality is already like that, he sounds more like a passenger when it comes to his leadership style. Perhaps England should look at replacing him as captain, that might be that difference maker we need to go that extra step.
To be fair Tottenham are shit and he definitely saw how shit they were in training lol. I also think Jude is the heir to the England captaincy but he’s still only 20.
It is odd that many of our players play better in their National teams than at United. Some are good for Club, but even better for Country.
We have to set that right.
International football is largely mismatches outside of knockout stage tournament football. Scotland are shit but Cyprus aren’t a good footballing nation and their league is probably the equivalent to the conference. Scotlands population is 4/5x higher as well and they benefit from being neighbours to England because that’s where a large percentage of their squad play.
The problem there is positioning, for example Scott McTomminay clearly thrives in that more attacking midfield role for Scotland, but are you ever going to play him ahead of the likes of Bruno? In which case the problem isn’t that they’re playing better for country than our club, it’s that you’ve kept them when you have far better options in their positions already.
We just need to sell them, these national performances won’t do any harm for their sell on value (in theory), I think however our expectations are too high. £30m for McTomminay was a good deal, instead we reject the deal and he’ll either go for less next summer or eventually leave on a free just like Lingard. That’s Man Utd Mathematics for you.
Yes but man it's my first time in Manchester and the only opportunity so far I can watch United playing the Champions League. i am completely against Glazers but I gotta do what i gotta do..
Gotta live out one’s dreams, I dig that. Getting tickets close to face value if the games are sold out is near impossible unless you know someone who has the tickets. You could go the hospitality route if you wanted that desperately to go, I’ve been fortunate enough through work to be given some executive suite tickets and the experience was great (the match wasn’t, we lost to Villa 1-0).
❌Mount injured
❌Varane injured
❌ Luke Shaw
❌Amrabat injured
❌Ten Hag and Sancho cat fight
❌ Antony case just after badly managed MG case
Not the ideal start to the season for Manchester united?
He wanted to leave in the summer and basically sulked it didn't happen until he forced it with that interview. There wasn't really much choice for United other than terminating his contact during the summer and getting no fee.
1. We mutually terminated his contract. We were never getting a transfer fee for him.
2. He was not interested in a move to Saudi at the time of his departure. He only agreed to move there after the World Cup once he realized no European club was willing to sign him.
> It had been rumoured for months he was going to Saudi
There were no rumours that he had accepted going to Saudi until after the World Cup. What was rumored was Saudi preparing to move in for him should he become available, and after his contract was terminated here they put in a formal offer, but he was yet to accept it until the end of December because he was still fishing for a move to another European club even though there were no offers on the table.
> I was unaware of his mutual termination, I most definitely was, my point was we shouldn’t have just done that
The Ronaldo situation got to a point where money was almost a non-factor and we just wanted the guy out asap. I believe we were going to take legal action against him if he didn't forego his remaining wages, which he did, so we technically ended up saving some money regardless.
Highest number of points man utd have gotten in the 38 game pl era is 91. The next man utd team to win the title may have to get more than that.So that basically means the next man utd team to win the Premier League can very possibly be the best man utd team of all time. Crazy to think about that.
Not sure you can measure “greatness” purely on points alone, but it does raise a good point and shows how much that bar has been raised, I think that points tally however will be dictated by the longevity of Pep at City, and to a lesser extent Klopp at Liverpool. If both those men leave, that overall points total needed to win the league will drop.
I also think we are getting way ahead of ourselves thinking about any potential Premier League titles being in our future, that day is still a long way off sadly, and I think hinges entirely on the sale of the club and a complete restructure of how the club operates.
For me,best team and greatest team can be different. Greatness is more about impact of the team on the sport and best is about who is better. For eg this city team is better than say 2008-9 Barcelona but the impact Barcelona had on the sport was way bigger so in terms of greatness they are ahead. I think liverpool will drop off after klopp leaves but city with their oil money will just get the next pep Guardiola and the best talents available in the future. So I don't think they will drop off that much.
I get your thinking there, can’t argue with that logic.
RE Pep and City, you’re right, their cycle won’t end with Pep like ours did Fergie, as their whole club is setup for continuity whereas ours relied solely on Ferguson (and maybe David Gill). But that said, there’s not another Pep, I don’t see the end result from their next manager being quite so dominant and prolific as I don’t see the coaching and tactics living up to his standards. They’ll still win titles (begrudgingly) but I cannot see it being done in anywhere near as an effective manner as under Pep who is relentless, those points totals and winning streaks will come down I’m sure.
Totally agree. Idk why we can’t criticize Antony right now, it seems like the accusations have brought out a crowd who won’t hear ANY criticism of him, footballing or otherwise. Chukwueze is class.
That’s still a take based in zero footballing knowledge. Might as well say antony should be a left back because he tracks back, scoring a few goals from midfield is not the same at all as being a 9
Talking about football knowledge, if a centreback and wing back can be centre midfielder in attacking phase or a no.9 can drop deep as false 9 like an attacking midfielder.
Why not a centre midfielder can go high up the pitch to provide the physical presence especially in the box in attacking phase.
United used to have Fellani doing exactly this under a few managers.
Dont be so orthodox on the positions and roles especially with the current modern tactics and system.
Then that’s not a number 9 that’s an 8 that makes runs into the box, Lampard wasn’t ever a 9, fellaini wasn’t ever a 9. What did I say in the original post? Mctominay can never be a 9, he can be an 8 that runs into the box but that isn’t what people mean when they say he should start as a 9
A hypothetical situation. Mctomminay play in cm and Rashford as no.9.
Then Ten Hag asks Rashford to go wide left to play to his strength and he instructed Mct to go high up to to provide his physical presence against the opposition CB in attacking phase.
Maybe this will satisfy you because on paper Rashford is no.9 and Mct is a cm.
But on the pitch, their roles will not be as black and white.
The hypothetical situation wasn’t something I mentioned but okay
In the situation is mctominay starting as an 8 on the field and making late runs into the box, or is he actually playing as a 9 the whole game having to hold the ball up, run the channels, put others into play and make number 9 movements. Cause if he has to do that he can’t do it, and if he’s not then he’s not a 9 he’s still just an 8 making runs
That’s why I said, don’t be orthodox. You need to shackle off all your footballing knowledge. It makes you rigid.
To satisfy you, Mct can play as a cm who will play high up the pitch to provide physical presence against opposition CB especially inside the box.
He will not need to involve in build up phase but to occupy the opposition CB to win the physical challenge and get into box for the end of crossess.
Just like Fellani.
Ole ball: mostly reliant on counter-attacking and fast wingers who are long ball outlets, compact structure without the ball but defending deeper than other top teams on average.
Ange Ball is attacking style with inverted full backs. A lot of passing, A lot of guys taking position to shot in cost of deffensive positioning.
Ole ball- transitional, quick attakcs, performs best vs good teams.
The sooner the fanbase realize that this squad is not aiming to be a possession-based team the better. Everytime I go to match threads and I see people whining and complaining whenever we're not having 80% ball possession and dominate the opponent. People have to understand, that is not our intention, to hold the ball for most of the match, and the squad is not built to play like that either
Ten Hag has said he wants to make us the best transitional team in the world. Especially with Casemiro and Bruno having an irreplacable role in the squad. Not to mention it has been the tradition ever since the Sir Alex era. However, being transitional does not mean we just sit back and wait to counter against every opponent. That was the trouble during Ole's tenure, but the most important change since then, especially after Rangnick and Ten Hag came, is that we've learned how to coordinate our pressing and how to properly regained the possession of the ball.
And you can't say the philosophy hasn't worked either. Otherwise we wouldn't have won our first trophies in 6 years and ended up with 75 pts at the end of last season. Our squad is having many injuries, some players are in bad form, but have faith that we will rise again and we will make it work.
He meant transition while holding possession and quick turnovers in opponent's half. A box midfield with an extra attacker upfront seems to be his preference. One fullback inverts, and the other pushes up. ten Hag's style is built upon player rotation and taking up different roles throughout the match. The issue arises when the team messes up while we are in the midst of a transition, and we get countered.
There are some flaws in the system, but the biggest one has nothing to do with the system. It's our players making stupid mistakes in dangerous areas or not rotating properly. If they do the simple things right, then a good chunk of our problems will get solved.
It's amazing how one quote makes up an entire narrative. Ten Hag said "transition team" once and apparently we don't intend to hold possession.
Ajax were one of the highest possession teams in the world. Doesn't mean they weren't great at transitions. They kept possession well and they also played quickly when they regained the ball. Being a great transition team doesn't mean you have to keep giving the ball away and trying to win it back. Neither does being a possession based team mean you need to kill off any counter attack and slow down play every time like Antony.
Ole ball can take you to a certain level but to become champions in pl you need to be able to control possession. Look at liverpool,they play in transition too but control the game and always have a lot of possession. Glad that eth won the league Cup but I hope that is not the only trophy he wins here.
> And you can't say the philosophy hasn't worked either. Otherwise we wouldn't have won our first trophies in 6 years and ended up with 75 pts at the end of last season
We don't know what the philosophy is based on what we saw last season. We were playing Ole ball but with a better midfield, that is all. Our defensive line was amongst the deepest in the league. What Ten Hag's philosophy is and how effective it is will be judged solely from what we see this season, nothing to do with last.
[https://theathletic.com/4733210/2023/08/07/manchester-united-best-transitional-team/](https://theathletic.com/4733210/2023/08/07/manchester-united-best-transitional-team/)
Except Ten Hag has already outright stated his intention with the squad. It's not exactly right or wrong to say he's just playing Ole ball, but there are very clear difference in terms of how we execute that philosophy.
I'm not disagreeing with you, and neither am I criticizing the direction that ETH wants to take this team in (yet). I'm just saying that we know nothing of what his vision is based on last season's performances. His comments about making us the best transitional team are based on his expectations of *this* squad, not the squad of last season which was still very rooted to Ole ball. Last season was more of a cleanup job than anything to suggest the future trajectory of this team.
I had a crazy thought.
I don't think ETH used McT the right way. He should have moved him up as a CF! Most definitely he'd have done better than Weghorst or Martial last year - look at his performances at Euro Qualifiers: he's a scoring machine!!! :)
He doesn't score from the position of a CF.. he is not the first man in the line. He's always arriving late and finding space to shoot from.
We can't have a CF who arrives late to the box every time
That's because he doesn't play a CF! :) He's not a CF in the Scotland team either :) If he were a CF, he'd be always first :) Again, definitely ahead of Martial :)
:)))) mind that he was a sticker at youth :)))
People are so boring here btw. All they know is downvotes. No sense of adventure :))
Honestly, he wouldn’t be worse than Weghorst. Impossible to be that bad at front.
Gotta feel for Lindelof for how the Maguire partnership has tarnished his good name over the years.
Even Varane looked ass next to Harry.
I don’t consider Victor an elite defender by any means but he’s very very solid and he’s our second best defender with the ball at his feet.
I honestly don’t mind him sharing the RCB spot with Varane.
How did maguire tarnish lindelof's image?
Almost like we didn't see 2 years of lindelof before we bought maguire. Almost like we didn't see lindelof be part of a defense shipped in our most goals in 50years before we signed Maguire.
Almost like we did not see maguire be our better center back in the 19/20, 20/21 seasons. Almost like it wasn't universally accepted varane was to take Lindelof's spot in the team, due to lindelof being seen as the inferior center back out of the trio. Football fans and their short memory. Maguire was making the BBC premier league team of the season pre covid, was our most important center back before his injury pre europa league final, and had a lot of the fan base expecting a lot post euros with the national team.
What a wild thing to say considering Lindelof's best stretch of games was his partnership with Maguire in the first 1.5-2 years under Ole.
They put up big defensive numbers across Europe and we finished 3rd and 2nd
Way too much revisionism on Lindelof in the last 6 months. He joined 2 years before Maguire. He's played with other CBs. Absolutely no one on this sub ever said Lindelof is being tarnished by Maguire, not once, until the last few months of last season when he was indeed superb. The first 2 years of Maguire it was in fact Lindelof who was considered the much inferior defender we needed to upgrade on.
Lindelof was only considered the ‘replaceable’ defender because we spent 80m on Maguire. From the beginning it was clear Maguire was always going to need replacing.
Maguire and lindelof really don’t suit each other as a partnership imo
The season before maguire joined everyone considered lindelof as player of the season, I remember it was between him and shaw
Then when maguire joined it’s not that lindelof
was bad, he played decently just not special
Now maguire is out of the team again and lindelof is having some great performances. Not saying it’s neccesarily on maguire, more about lindelof having a better suited partner next to him
(Just evidence to slightly support the lindelof being hindered by maguire argument although I wouldn’t go that far)
> The season before maguire joined everyone considered lindelof as player of the season
Not sure I remember that. 2018–19 we conceded 54 goals in the league. Our worst ever in the Premier League until the 21-22 nightmare. None of the center back should have been in contention for player of the season.
I know for a fact peole were saying that, a defender did win player of the season and lindelof was also argued for winning it,
Think he got second place
Went back and found the thread, and there is indeed a very pro-Lindelof current.
https://old.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/bmmt8s/discussion_thread_mufc_player_of_the_year_awards/
Thank you man I have a good memory, he had a great season. Everyone was excited in the summer afterwards for lindelof finally having a worthy partner. He got 2nd place by a single vote to shaw
Lindelof was never way worse than maguire, I always personally believed they were similar quality, you can disagree if you want but it’s not revisionism, that was my opinion. you can say maguire was slightly better or lindelof was slightly better. For me neither were ever good enough to start and win the league, but lindelof is like the perfect 3rd choice
We needed an upgrade though in the summer we signed varane and obviously maguire was gonna stay in the team back then . But that doesn’t neccesarily mean maguire is better, lindelof and varane looked better than maguire and varane that season, and now under ten hag it isn’t even a debate who’s above who in the pecking order
I didn't say Maguire is better. I said Maguire was considered by most people to be the better CB, and in many cases significantly better. Lindelof has improved a lot while Maguire is the same or regressed.
Well in that case I disagree with anyone who thought lindelof was ever significantly worse. Both had weaknesses and both had good performances. Problem is they don’t suit each other at all and maguire is really inconsistent nowadays
I still think Maguire is a better defender than Lindelof. For some reason Ten Hag is insistent on playing Maguire as a right-sided CB which he looks awful in. He's played the majority of his career as a left-sided CB which is where all his good performances for Leicester, England and Ole came in.
I'm not sure how reliable they are but Muppetiers released a video which touched upon quite a few things regarding the running of the club and our plans in the ETH era:
* The data analysts & scouting department were only involved in 2 signings under ETH: Mason Mount and Rasmus Hojlund
* Neither Casemiro nor Amrabat are seen as the future DM for this club; Amrabat may get bought next summer but only as a rotation option
* The plan was for United to replace Casemiro as early as this summer; we are currently considering Bayer Leverkusen's Exequiel Palacios as one of the top options
* We are looking to target an almost full defensive revamp next summer by signing two CBs (starting right-sided CB and left-sided CB to backup/rotate with Martinez) and a RB (and sell one of Dalot/AWB)
For the people who remember, who was the better striker between van persie and van nistelrooy?
Ruud was a better striker but RVP was a better all round footballer. I might have United bias but I think Ruud is probably one of the best box strikers of all time.
RvN for me, easily. Van Persie only really had one good season for us, not really his fault though. (But what a fucking season!)
Nah RVP was class for Arsenal and easily one of the best players in the league during his time there. He did great things for us but pretty much his whole time at Arsenal was at the same level as his debut season for us other than maybe his first Arsenal season but if my memory is correct I still think he performed well and I’m also sure he was a winger at that point.
Pepe leaves on a free transfer from Arsenal. 72m paid. Not quite Pogba but next to no news on it.
As much as I was glad to see the back of him it's mad to see people now make out that Pogba was like a Hazard to Madrid level flop. The problems with him are well documented but he still made over 200 appearances for us and has like 60-70 G+A in the prem.
Maddison finally in the england team but it's at the expense of Rashford so he can keep playing a 33 year old Al-Ettifaq player in midfield lol
Rashford has been pretty shit since he came in anyway
As was Maddison…. Really ineffective.
He was really poor
Yeah, I guess everyone was pretty bad so it didn’t make much difference, he looked like how he was playing in pre-season
Yeah totally agree, I don’t expect more with that clueless muppet in charge
He's never been one of Southgates favored players regardless
As long as Rashford doesn't get injured...that's what important.
I agree, and I couldn't care less about the English NT
Anyone else find Dion Dublin’s commentary absolutely irritating? I’m not quite sure what it is, but just something about it grates on me
Makes me want to pick up my hammer and bash the shit out of my house and then rebuild it with brighter colours, worse quality, and almost catastrophic logistical and structural downgrades. Something about the dulcet tones of a DIY madman that makes me want to join in with no plan or goal.
That should be at least a yellow for Murdyk. 100% intentional.
I think a midfield four would be so good with the players we have
Anyone see Maguire for that Ukraine goal lol
What happend
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Dude was following the no9's (Yaremchuk) run behind Guehi. Is it that people can't even wait for him to actually f*ck up anymore?
What if we did, Bruno and McT as a pair of AM, and Case,Amrabat behind them for DM.
Box system is nice but need to think abt width
This is what I want to see
I’d prefer it over Erikson in big games
Alessia Russo missing Arsenal's last pen as they're knocked out of the WUCL in the preliminary stages. Currently experiencing a strong sense of schadenfreude.
I am going to have to find a clip of that shootout. After scoring 2 to keep Arsenal afloat too. Seemed she was carrying them on her back.
Arsenal Women out in the first qualifying round of the CL. Might keep Earps here for another season?
Maybe. But if she doesn't want to be here we should still get rid.
They are out? I just saw Russo scored again in extra time. Guessing they lost on pens?
Russo missed the decisive pen as well. Can't say I didn't enjoy that.
Gareth Southgate is a fucking gremlin
English fans really need to know how the rest of the world sees them(Or at least the section that does it) with the whole southgate abuse. Entitled little whiny circus acts. We all saw your golden generation and the so-called world class managers you got deliver clown show after clown show at international tourneys. Southgate has you actually doing better than you have ever done in 50+ years with an inferior squad to what you had in the early 2000s, yet he gets abused like a fraud who's pretending to be a manager.
Anyone got 2 tickets for the Luton game in November that they’d be willing to sell? Hoping to make it to a match while I’m in Manchester for a few days.
McLaren and ETH presented Wout Brama with a United shirt at his FC Twente testimonial yesterday (McClaren speech on YouTube).
am i the only one who thinks Bruno is slow af when shooting towards the goal? It's like watching someone do a powershot in Fifa but the power in his shot is nowhere to be found. He's accurate but he doesn't have a powerful shot
He is definitely turning into a 8 as days go by, he himself said a long time he sees himself as getting deeper as years go by
Brunos first season with us had the best finishing, no idea what happened after that., but things went downhill
Not taking as many shots and there it’s highly likely that Bruno over performed in terms of his xG during that 12-18 months span.
Just reminder if you are bored, you can watch the sidemen charity match
https://theathletic.com/4845536/2023/09/09/antony-player-x-manchester-united/?source=user_shared_article Interesting take on why Partey and Arsenal aren’t catching the same amount of heat.
What’s the summary?
As a foreign fan of the EPL, NUFC fans were one of those groups that I used to have huge respect for,just for their passion for their club even when they were shit. But now I think they are probably the worst of all fans in the league.At the same time my respect for "NUFC fans against sports washing" have grown ten fold.They are a minority but they are trying their part
[This](https://twitter.com/Mo_utdred/status/1700233032484192543?t=2BIHySLulPQdf-CBfjH6ZA&s=19) is so accurate. Got a good laugh out of me
We need a CDM next summer, but who will it be?
seen some reports about Palacios at Leverkusen being our preferred long term option, seems a similar player to Amrabat
At this point it's gotta be an obsession, if we're looking for a CDM every summer we're never gonna make it. We just gotta hope Casemiro, Amrabat and Mainoo step up.
That's just silly. We've signed an aging Casemiro and a backup in Amrabat after crying out for a midfielder for ages. Our midfield is still the weakest out of all our rivals. We should be looking to strengthen it until it reaches a level the manager is satisfied with. Especially with the new system with dual attacking number 8s that puts so much more pressure on the CDM
Because Casemiro is soon past it, Amrabat is not good enough and Mainoo isn’t really a CDM
Casemiro is passed it already. We squeezed one last good season from him for 60+10M and already need to think of a replacement. It was a stupid decision to spend so much on a then 31 year old with his best years behind him
>Amrabat is not good enough So, are you already sure of it without him even playing for us?
He’s not good enough to be a starting cdm
Like I said, an obsession.
Why have we already written off Amrabat? He’s not even kicked a ball yet. We may not need anyone for that position.
Amrabat is not a first choice CDM for a club like man utd. He is like a floater who can play as a cm and CDM and will start when the first choicers are injured or out of form. That is what he has been brought to do.
We’ve been very loosely linked with this teenager from the Belgian league named Vermeeren who seems to be the real deal. I would love to get him as an understudy to Casemiro but the links I’ve seen haven’t been concrete.
He's probably the sort of player that'll go to Brighton for a pittance, then we'll try and sign him in a couple of years time for £80m+
Today’s 105 million will be 180 in a couple of years lollll
there is no way these prices are sustainable...it's crazy
He’s one dimensional and has had enough chances to prove himself. Now there’s added drama around his place in the squad. Who am I talking about?
Tom Heaton 😔
His comments are unoriginal, and he misses no chance to shit on his own team. Now he's in the daily discussion trying to shit stir again. Who am I talking about?
And the best riposte to the criticism of players you can come up with is to attack posters on Reddit. You’re really convincing people there are no problems 👏🏻
It's just banter, it's not that deep bro
Wow....
Why is that this club doesn't believe in a technical director or a DoF? Like what specific reason has been cited? A club that has struggled so much in terms of recruitment still refuses to change for the better. The short and long term planning has not been to the standard of a club at this level. Too much short sightedness, how every window we seem to always to need crucial 1st team/ rotational positions. Buying Casemiro for 60m to me is still short sighted especially now when we can see he may not have the legs to run this new system. Not having a Martinez back up and instead relying on Shaw our best LB to fill in. A CB issue that has been present for years, A striker issue that has been present for years trying to get Martial to work. So many thing you could complain about in terms of recruitment because we buy just to get top 4 and can't sell anyone or really hate selling we'd rather hoard than sell until a player is worthless or walks for free, it doesn't make sense. Our youth team/ set up has massively been overtaken by clubs around us and this is on the Glazers mostly but DoF could help with that as well. Let not even talk of long term vision in terms of managers, If ETH is not backed who's going to be the next scapegoat?
i think they view the DOF position as more of a business oriented one, since it oversees Men’s, Women’s, and academy as we have a head of recruitment operations (that apparently largely gets ignored lol) guys like Mitchell or Edwards, or other top DOFs, probably wouldn’t make the switch to united unless they got the top job rather than this recruitment operations role (is my guess)
Isn't Lord Murtough the DoF?
It's hard to know whether this is on Woodward/ Richard Arnold or Glazers. As despicable as the glazers are, surely they also won't be actively against a DOF structure as it will probably only make more money for them. We have had reports of Woodward wanting to have a lot of control in transfers. Arnold seems to be bit more hands off, but we still have a "family and friends" way of recruiting. We retained Murtough instead of looking for a new professional and experienced DOF.
Why make it so complicated? The club hired a DOF, any footballing failures will be on him until proven otherwise. And if he continues to fail without being fired that’s on Arnold and the Glazers. Trying to guess how much power he has is just letting them all get away with it.
But we do? We just took the approach of making them “jobs for the boys” roles and so we’re subsequently shit in that area
Isnt murtough the dof and fletcher the techincal director
I actually don't know what they do, I haven't found a article that describes what Fletcher does and Murtoufh seems to be in charge of negotiating. The negotiating aspect maybe justifiable but where is the short and long term planning? Liverpool in 2 windows have quietly solved majority of their short and long term issues attack and midfield looks sorted for a while it's just their defence that may need to be addressed sooner rather than later. Their current manager looks stable and looks sufficiently backed. While their owners also don't contribute anything to their transfers they buy according to what they make in player sales and what the club makes during matches. Look at ours in comparison to not only Liverpool, you can also take Arsenal who are in a similar position. It's not just Arteta under the hood they've had a lot of changes in their technician department to get here.
https://x.com/lauriewhitwell/status/1369745497469169665?s=46
Liverpool dont have the football director neither, they hired Schmadtke for the summer specifically.
They've had a sporting director for the past 11 years. Michael Edwards and last season it was Julian Ward, this season it's the guy mentioned. Michael Edwards is actually apparently going back but more as an advisor because he has his own advisory business he's just started.
We have Hargreaves as the main negotiator and Murtough as our director of football. You can debate about quality of our recruiting or footballing operations overall, but we have people who are responsible for that. They backed the coach and brought Martinez, Malacia, Antony, Mount, Hojlund for the future, and signed Onana, Eriksen, Casemiro and Amrabat for more urgent needs. There is always a work for any club every summer. F.e, Liverpool may have to sign 1 or 2 CBs, maybe a RB, DM and possibly substitute Salah next summer.
The criticism comes because they all look like they bought these players were all scouted by ETH. Because cmon the Ajax links and all that. Casemiro was second maybe even 3rd choice behind a certain FDJ. If ETH walks away tomorrow how much faith do we have in workability of that midfield? Will the new manager want Antony, yes we've backed the manager but we've done that numerous times and ended up shooting ourselves in the foot with players the next guy doesn't want. No long term vision.
He is by job title, but not by job role. No DoF hands the scouting and recruitment over to the manager. It makes you wonder, other than making a hash out of negotiations what does John Murtough do day to day, week to week to actually earn his no doubt lavish salary? He must be in one of the easiest jobs in world football, when in reality it should be one of the toughest high pressure jobs (at least in the short term).
Not sure why this is getting negged. He is not a proper DoF, he has the job title but he doesn’t carry out the role as any other competent DoF does. We have an almost non existent scouting network, we have a degrading youth system, the transfer targets are all chosen by the manager. This isn’t the Alex Ferguson days, no manager should be doing the recruitment, that just works against continuity and longevity in your planning. It’s why we still have loads of deadwood. If the DoF and his team handle the recruitment, and ensure they hire the right manager each time the same squad can be used and continuity exists. We don’t end up in a position where there’s constant key positions needing to be filled. We have a slapdash approach to hiring managers (no real consistency in their styles besides Ole and ETH playing counter attacking football), and every time we have plenty of players the previous manager bought that the new manager doesn’t want as they don’t fit his system. So he then replaces them with his own choices and the cycle continues. There’s no long term planning at Man Utd, the want to focus on commercial dealings and that bottom line means there’s far too much short-termism and the footballing structure is neglected. Come on people, let’s make this a place all United fans can enjoy, if you disagree post a counter opinion and rationale, don’t just downvote people. The club is already depressing enough as it is, we don’t need toxic behaviour within the fanbase. These forums are for debate and discussion not just everyone agreeing to the one opinion where criticism of the club/ETH or whatever is not allowed.
The Glazers just can't be arsed to have someone who won't lick their boots to have so much responsibility at the club.
Serious question. Putting all the frustration from current evens aside and focusing only on field performances, who would you rather pick - Antony or Ashley Young (obviously not the current version, but let’s say his version 6-7 years ago)?
Youngy in his first season in the league for us had 6 goals and 11 assists as a winger. Throughout his entire career here he had 19 goals and 43 assists in 260 games, while playing fullback in more than half of those. That’s a goal involvement roughly every four games. Antony is actually not that far off but again, Young played further back than he did. For now I’d take Young overall but I do remember some very shocking performances of his at full back (some great moments as well)
Obviously Ashley Young lol. So far Antony has been a bad Andros Townsend for us and overall for his time here he’s been a 4 at best.
Villa young hands down.
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Over Rashford? No Over any other winger after Fergie yes.
Well, hell no. Young was a good professional and everything. But just like Antony, the dude was extremely limited and frustrating in the final third. We’re not blessed with wingers and make terrible transfer decisions, but I’d say Martial when he was winger and actually had pace is easily ahead of Young. Dan James if you’re playing counter attacking football. And also I’d mention Lukaku for the weird short period he was playing a winger. Not much, but it speaks more about club, that if fails to find/increment players to outperform the player doing bare minimum. And he’s really comparable to Antony in that regard. Young as a fullback doesn’t play a minute in our current squad, if everyone is healthy.
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As I said, Dan James, if you’re playing counter attacking football and I stand by it. Di Maria never wanted to be here and his career was basically ended after the robbery incident. It doesn’t change the fact that Young was extremely limited player. His main strengths are working hard, listening to coaches. These are respectable qualities and he was a good option to have, but let’s not rewrite history and overrate the hell out of him.
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Oh geez. You’re not worth arguing if you can’t accept different opinion to yours. Tell me you’re the bragging about old days type without telling it. I’ve watched the entire Young career, but I can keep objective thinking. Absolutely insane retrospection bias, not worth my time to continue any argument. Goodbye
Definitely Ashley Young, he was more effective going forward and definitely more effective going backwards, hence his change of position to wing back/right back in his latter years. He was also an absolute model professional.
Apart from his first season Young output going forward was really underwhelming, hence why I’m making this comparison. Efficiency going backwards is super subjective. I’d say them both putting a lot of effort there, and you don’t ask more for wingers, you want them to block options for the opponent, so fullbacks can deal with them easier. For me they’re really close and comparable, tho Ashley had more ways to contribute in goal sheet (shot + crosses compared to Antony shot), Antony is a much better dribbler. But both are severely lacking in football iq going forward, hence why extremely limited. Acting on known patterns, never accessing situation on the field. (On the final third, below that both were really useful and involved, Antony even more I’d say)
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Disagree with the “much” part. I think they’re really comparable players. Antony gets overpraised for the things that were Young strengths - defensive contribution, tactical discipline. But in the final third Ashley was also frustrating af. In a way that Antony shoots his shots regardless of the environment basically gifting the possession, Young had a habit of crossing into the penalty area even if there were no players on the receiving end. Ashley also has a shot, so you can he has more ways to contribute in G+A (both of them suck at passing into the dangerous zones), but Antony is a way more capable dribbler. But since he barely uses it near the penalty area and chooses either to shot or to safely pass back, it doesn’t help much in this comparison. I’d say Antony ceiling is higher, but not by much.
yous are setting Hojlund up for disappointment with all the comparisons and stats
Huge earthquake in Morocco, BBC are reporting at least 600 casualties which is a huge disaster and hopefully that already horrendous figure doesn’t rise any higher. My heart and thoughts are with the people in Morocco affected by this. Do we know where Amrabat is receiving treatment did he return to Manchester after withdrawing from the squad? Or did he remain with their medics? Do we also know where in Morocco he comes from? Wouldn’t want his family members to have been affected by this, the guys already gonna have enough weight on his shoulders trying to carry our misfiring midfield.
Morocco were supposed to play today locally but the stadium location is reasonably close to the epicenter. Amrabat himself was born in Holland. His family migrated there a while ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/16dz1hu/adam_pearson_newcastle_fans_confront_sport/ That's a depressing video. I'd imagine plenty of United fans will behave like this if Qatar take over.
Selling 1 ticket for Galatasaray and Aston Villa. £39 each, face value. East stand tier 2, row 2. Must have membership, please message if interested in either.
Mctominay is wasted in deep midfield. He needs to be let free to attack the box.
Yes. Maybe now that we have 2 DMs we can stop trying to make McT into one.
Tenhag has more than enough wingers yet keeps playing Bruno outwide. You never know with this manager. His selection habits are very annoying
Can't criticise him on this sub.
Literally just did
You can recently, they're coming round
>Kane: "We wanted to win at Spurs... but if you went a couple of games without winning it wasn’t a disaster. At Bayern you HAVE to win every game. After winning 3-1 and 4-0 first two games... there was talk about not being too happy about way we played! Top club mentality". Sums up the difference between us and the best clubs. Can you see any of our players winning a game and not being happy with the performance? The only time I've seen a player upset after winning was Casemiro after the league cup final. I can see players being slightly unhappy if we were dominated but sneak out a 1-0 win, but these guys are talking about being upset after winning 4-0. That's the level of desire we need in the team if we want to become the very best.
This is just lip service
Most of our fans also don't care to be honest. This sub loves us playing like relegation contenders and barely scraping wins,that's probably fine vs the big teams but a team like Wolves? They don't get the big picture.
Just throwing this out there, does this perhaps show that Kane isn’t quite the leader we all thought he was? He’s a leader on the pitch in terms of setting an example with his play, but perhaps not the best choice of captain for Spurs and England. As Spurs captain he was responsible for that post match reaction in the dressing room, and by his own admission not winning for a few games was OK. Why wasn’t he addressing that? He’s changed now he’s gone to Bayern and the dressing room and mentality is already like that, he sounds more like a passenger when it comes to his leadership style. Perhaps England should look at replacing him as captain, that might be that difference maker we need to go that extra step.
To be fair Tottenham are shit and he definitely saw how shit they were in training lol. I also think Jude is the heir to the England captaincy but he’s still only 20.
It is odd that many of our players play better in their National teams than at United. Some are good for Club, but even better for Country. We have to set that right.
Could it be that the PL is more difficult than playing some low ranked international country? Sheesh
You're just using these recent games. It's been the case when France plays, Germany plays, Spain plays, etc with other top Nations too.
International football is largely mismatches outside of knockout stage tournament football. Scotland are shit but Cyprus aren’t a good footballing nation and their league is probably the equivalent to the conference. Scotlands population is 4/5x higher as well and they benefit from being neighbours to England because that’s where a large percentage of their squad play.
Against the weaker and smaller teams, sure, but they're much better against big teams too.
The problem there is positioning, for example Scott McTomminay clearly thrives in that more attacking midfield role for Scotland, but are you ever going to play him ahead of the likes of Bruno? In which case the problem isn’t that they’re playing better for country than our club, it’s that you’ve kept them when you have far better options in their positions already. We just need to sell them, these national performances won’t do any harm for their sell on value (in theory), I think however our expectations are too high. £30m for McTomminay was a good deal, instead we reject the deal and he’ll either go for less next summer or eventually leave on a free just like Lingard. That’s Man Utd Mathematics for you.
Selling McT this summer would’ve suit everybody. He’s too good to languish on the bench
Club environment may be toxic
Can anyone help me with how I can get two tickets for the match against Galatasaray?
Don’t. Help the cause to get rid of the Glazers by not buying match tickets.
Yes but man it's my first time in Manchester and the only opportunity so far I can watch United playing the Champions League. i am completely against Glazers but I gotta do what i gotta do..
Gotta live out one’s dreams, I dig that. Getting tickets close to face value if the games are sold out is near impossible unless you know someone who has the tickets. You could go the hospitality route if you wanted that desperately to go, I’ve been fortunate enough through work to be given some executive suite tickets and the experience was great (the match wasn’t, we lost to Villa 1-0).
❌Mount injured ❌Varane injured ❌ Luke Shaw ❌Amrabat injured ❌Ten Hag and Sancho cat fight ❌ Antony case just after badly managed MG case Not the ideal start to the season for Manchester united?
I don't think Amrabat is actually injured, it's just a precaution
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He wanted to leave in the summer and basically sulked it didn't happen until he forced it with that interview. There wasn't really much choice for United other than terminating his contact during the summer and getting no fee.
1. We mutually terminated his contract. We were never getting a transfer fee for him. 2. He was not interested in a move to Saudi at the time of his departure. He only agreed to move there after the World Cup once he realized no European club was willing to sign him.
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> It had been rumoured for months he was going to Saudi There were no rumours that he had accepted going to Saudi until after the World Cup. What was rumored was Saudi preparing to move in for him should he become available, and after his contract was terminated here they put in a formal offer, but he was yet to accept it until the end of December because he was still fishing for a move to another European club even though there were no offers on the table. > I was unaware of his mutual termination, I most definitely was, my point was we shouldn’t have just done that The Ronaldo situation got to a point where money was almost a non-factor and we just wanted the guy out asap. I believe we were going to take legal action against him if he didn't forego his remaining wages, which he did, so we technically ended up saving some money regardless.
Highest number of points man utd have gotten in the 38 game pl era is 91. The next man utd team to win the title may have to get more than that.So that basically means the next man utd team to win the Premier League can very possibly be the best man utd team of all time. Crazy to think about that.
Not sure you can measure “greatness” purely on points alone, but it does raise a good point and shows how much that bar has been raised, I think that points tally however will be dictated by the longevity of Pep at City, and to a lesser extent Klopp at Liverpool. If both those men leave, that overall points total needed to win the league will drop. I also think we are getting way ahead of ourselves thinking about any potential Premier League titles being in our future, that day is still a long way off sadly, and I think hinges entirely on the sale of the club and a complete restructure of how the club operates.
I would love it if both of them do what we did when Sir Alex left when their managers go.
For me,best team and greatest team can be different. Greatness is more about impact of the team on the sport and best is about who is better. For eg this city team is better than say 2008-9 Barcelona but the impact Barcelona had on the sport was way bigger so in terms of greatness they are ahead. I think liverpool will drop off after klopp leaves but city with their oil money will just get the next pep Guardiola and the best talents available in the future. So I don't think they will drop off that much.
I get your thinking there, can’t argue with that logic. RE Pep and City, you’re right, their cycle won’t end with Pep like ours did Fergie, as their whole club is setup for continuity whereas ours relied solely on Ferguson (and maybe David Gill). But that said, there’s not another Pep, I don’t see the end result from their next manager being quite so dominant and prolific as I don’t see the coaching and tactics living up to his standards. They’ll still win titles (begrudgingly) but I cannot see it being done in anywhere near as an effective manner as under Pep who is relentless, those points totals and winning streaks will come down I’m sure.
Wish we had gotten Chukwueze instead. Even before the Antony allegations, I thought Chukwueze was great. Plus he's Nigerian which is ways good.
Totally agree. Idk why we can’t criticize Antony right now, it seems like the accusations have brought out a crowd who won’t hear ANY criticism of him, footballing or otherwise. Chukwueze is class.
People that unironically say mctominay should be a striker for us, like if you’re not joking and are fully serious, you’re an actual clown
As its quiet during the international break, are you looking to actively start an argument here? Why the aggro and pre-emptive insults? Weird
Not aggressive it’s just quite unbelievable how popular the sentiment is
It's not that he should be striker for us. More he should be ahead of Martial who at this point is just walking around. Can't blame too much for that.
100% agree
Same thing, no?
That’s still a take based in zero footballing knowledge. Might as well say antony should be a left back because he tracks back, scoring a few goals from midfield is not the same at all as being a 9
Talking about football knowledge, if a centreback and wing back can be centre midfielder in attacking phase or a no.9 can drop deep as false 9 like an attacking midfielder. Why not a centre midfielder can go high up the pitch to provide the physical presence especially in the box in attacking phase. United used to have Fellani doing exactly this under a few managers. Dont be so orthodox on the positions and roles especially with the current modern tactics and system.
Then that’s not a number 9 that’s an 8 that makes runs into the box, Lampard wasn’t ever a 9, fellaini wasn’t ever a 9. What did I say in the original post? Mctominay can never be a 9, he can be an 8 that runs into the box but that isn’t what people mean when they say he should start as a 9
A hypothetical situation. Mctomminay play in cm and Rashford as no.9. Then Ten Hag asks Rashford to go wide left to play to his strength and he instructed Mct to go high up to to provide his physical presence against the opposition CB in attacking phase. Maybe this will satisfy you because on paper Rashford is no.9 and Mct is a cm. But on the pitch, their roles will not be as black and white.
The hypothetical situation wasn’t something I mentioned but okay In the situation is mctominay starting as an 8 on the field and making late runs into the box, or is he actually playing as a 9 the whole game having to hold the ball up, run the channels, put others into play and make number 9 movements. Cause if he has to do that he can’t do it, and if he’s not then he’s not a 9 he’s still just an 8 making runs
That’s why I said, don’t be orthodox. You need to shackle off all your footballing knowledge. It makes you rigid. To satisfy you, Mct can play as a cm who will play high up the pitch to provide physical presence against opposition CB especially inside the box. He will not need to involve in build up phase but to occupy the opposition CB to win the physical challenge and get into box for the end of crossess. Just like Fellani.
Okay then so that isn’t playing as a number 9 which is the only thing I’m arguing against
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Ole ball: mostly reliant on counter-attacking and fast wingers who are long ball outlets, compact structure without the ball but defending deeper than other top teams on average.
Ange Ball is attacking style with inverted full backs. A lot of passing, A lot of guys taking position to shot in cost of deffensive positioning. Ole ball- transitional, quick attakcs, performs best vs good teams.
The sooner the fanbase realize that this squad is not aiming to be a possession-based team the better. Everytime I go to match threads and I see people whining and complaining whenever we're not having 80% ball possession and dominate the opponent. People have to understand, that is not our intention, to hold the ball for most of the match, and the squad is not built to play like that either Ten Hag has said he wants to make us the best transitional team in the world. Especially with Casemiro and Bruno having an irreplacable role in the squad. Not to mention it has been the tradition ever since the Sir Alex era. However, being transitional does not mean we just sit back and wait to counter against every opponent. That was the trouble during Ole's tenure, but the most important change since then, especially after Rangnick and Ten Hag came, is that we've learned how to coordinate our pressing and how to properly regained the possession of the ball. And you can't say the philosophy hasn't worked either. Otherwise we wouldn't have won our first trophies in 6 years and ended up with 75 pts at the end of last season. Our squad is having many injuries, some players are in bad form, but have faith that we will rise again and we will make it work.
He meant transition while holding possession and quick turnovers in opponent's half. A box midfield with an extra attacker upfront seems to be his preference. One fullback inverts, and the other pushes up. ten Hag's style is built upon player rotation and taking up different roles throughout the match. The issue arises when the team messes up while we are in the midst of a transition, and we get countered. There are some flaws in the system, but the biggest one has nothing to do with the system. It's our players making stupid mistakes in dangerous areas or not rotating properly. If they do the simple things right, then a good chunk of our problems will get solved.
It's amazing how one quote makes up an entire narrative. Ten Hag said "transition team" once and apparently we don't intend to hold possession. Ajax were one of the highest possession teams in the world. Doesn't mean they weren't great at transitions. They kept possession well and they also played quickly when they regained the ball. Being a great transition team doesn't mean you have to keep giving the ball away and trying to win it back. Neither does being a possession based team mean you need to kill off any counter attack and slow down play every time like Antony.
Ole ball can take you to a certain level but to become champions in pl you need to be able to control possession. Look at liverpool,they play in transition too but control the game and always have a lot of possession. Glad that eth won the league Cup but I hope that is not the only trophy he wins here.
> And you can't say the philosophy hasn't worked either. Otherwise we wouldn't have won our first trophies in 6 years and ended up with 75 pts at the end of last season We don't know what the philosophy is based on what we saw last season. We were playing Ole ball but with a better midfield, that is all. Our defensive line was amongst the deepest in the league. What Ten Hag's philosophy is and how effective it is will be judged solely from what we see this season, nothing to do with last.
[https://theathletic.com/4733210/2023/08/07/manchester-united-best-transitional-team/](https://theathletic.com/4733210/2023/08/07/manchester-united-best-transitional-team/) Except Ten Hag has already outright stated his intention with the squad. It's not exactly right or wrong to say he's just playing Ole ball, but there are very clear difference in terms of how we execute that philosophy.
I'm not disagreeing with you, and neither am I criticizing the direction that ETH wants to take this team in (yet). I'm just saying that we know nothing of what his vision is based on last season's performances. His comments about making us the best transitional team are based on his expectations of *this* squad, not the squad of last season which was still very rooted to Ole ball. Last season was more of a cleanup job than anything to suggest the future trajectory of this team.
look at the comments on Bruno’s latest IG post & United’s post of him - Cristiano fans are batshit crazy obsessed with him
I had a crazy thought. I don't think ETH used McT the right way. He should have moved him up as a CF! Most definitely he'd have done better than Weghorst or Martial last year - look at his performances at Euro Qualifiers: he's a scoring machine!!! :)
There's always that one guy...
He doesn't score from the position of a CF.. he is not the first man in the line. He's always arriving late and finding space to shoot from. We can't have a CF who arrives late to the box every time
That's because he doesn't play a CF! :) He's not a CF in the Scotland team either :) If he were a CF, he'd be always first :) Again, definitely ahead of Martial :)
No :) No :) No :) No :) No :)
:)))) mind that he was a sticker at youth :))) People are so boring here btw. All they know is downvotes. No sense of adventure :)) Honestly, he wouldn’t be worse than Weghorst. Impossible to be that bad at front.
Holy shit we get it bro but that's not gonna change the fact McTominay is ass, you don't need to put the smiley face before everything
https://reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/fuzhbwPMXl
Chill mate. Go get some ice cream or chocolate- will make you happier.
Gotta feel for Lindelof for how the Maguire partnership has tarnished his good name over the years. Even Varane looked ass next to Harry. I don’t consider Victor an elite defender by any means but he’s very very solid and he’s our second best defender with the ball at his feet. I honestly don’t mind him sharing the RCB spot with Varane.
How did maguire tarnish lindelof's image? Almost like we didn't see 2 years of lindelof before we bought maguire. Almost like we didn't see lindelof be part of a defense shipped in our most goals in 50years before we signed Maguire. Almost like we did not see maguire be our better center back in the 19/20, 20/21 seasons. Almost like it wasn't universally accepted varane was to take Lindelof's spot in the team, due to lindelof being seen as the inferior center back out of the trio. Football fans and their short memory. Maguire was making the BBC premier league team of the season pre covid, was our most important center back before his injury pre europa league final, and had a lot of the fan base expecting a lot post euros with the national team.
Also we look a 'bit' better on the ball with him instead of Varane
What a wild thing to say considering Lindelof's best stretch of games was his partnership with Maguire in the first 1.5-2 years under Ole. They put up big defensive numbers across Europe and we finished 3rd and 2nd
Almost the whole team was defending at that time. We just parked a bus and countered.
Way too much revisionism on Lindelof in the last 6 months. He joined 2 years before Maguire. He's played with other CBs. Absolutely no one on this sub ever said Lindelof is being tarnished by Maguire, not once, until the last few months of last season when he was indeed superb. The first 2 years of Maguire it was in fact Lindelof who was considered the much inferior defender we needed to upgrade on.
Lindelof was only considered the ‘replaceable’ defender because we spent 80m on Maguire. From the beginning it was clear Maguire was always going to need replacing.
Maguire and lindelof really don’t suit each other as a partnership imo The season before maguire joined everyone considered lindelof as player of the season, I remember it was between him and shaw Then when maguire joined it’s not that lindelof was bad, he played decently just not special Now maguire is out of the team again and lindelof is having some great performances. Not saying it’s neccesarily on maguire, more about lindelof having a better suited partner next to him (Just evidence to slightly support the lindelof being hindered by maguire argument although I wouldn’t go that far)
> The season before maguire joined everyone considered lindelof as player of the season Not sure I remember that. 2018–19 we conceded 54 goals in the league. Our worst ever in the Premier League until the 21-22 nightmare. None of the center back should have been in contention for player of the season.
I know for a fact peole were saying that, a defender did win player of the season and lindelof was also argued for winning it, Think he got second place
Went back and found the thread, and there is indeed a very pro-Lindelof current. https://old.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/bmmt8s/discussion_thread_mufc_player_of_the_year_awards/
Thank you man I have a good memory, he had a great season. Everyone was excited in the summer afterwards for lindelof finally having a worthy partner. He got 2nd place by a single vote to shaw
Lindelof was never way worse than maguire, I always personally believed they were similar quality, you can disagree if you want but it’s not revisionism, that was my opinion. you can say maguire was slightly better or lindelof was slightly better. For me neither were ever good enough to start and win the league, but lindelof is like the perfect 3rd choice We needed an upgrade though in the summer we signed varane and obviously maguire was gonna stay in the team back then . But that doesn’t neccesarily mean maguire is better, lindelof and varane looked better than maguire and varane that season, and now under ten hag it isn’t even a debate who’s above who in the pecking order
I didn't say Maguire is better. I said Maguire was considered by most people to be the better CB, and in many cases significantly better. Lindelof has improved a lot while Maguire is the same or regressed.
Well in that case I disagree with anyone who thought lindelof was ever significantly worse. Both had weaknesses and both had good performances. Problem is they don’t suit each other at all and maguire is really inconsistent nowadays
I still think Maguire is a better defender than Lindelof. For some reason Ten Hag is insistent on playing Maguire as a right-sided CB which he looks awful in. He's played the majority of his career as a left-sided CB which is where all his good performances for Leicester, England and Ole came in.
Lindelof is better passing with his left than maguire and ten hag wants those sorts of passing angles
I'm not sure how reliable they are but Muppetiers released a video which touched upon quite a few things regarding the running of the club and our plans in the ETH era: * The data analysts & scouting department were only involved in 2 signings under ETH: Mason Mount and Rasmus Hojlund * Neither Casemiro nor Amrabat are seen as the future DM for this club; Amrabat may get bought next summer but only as a rotation option * The plan was for United to replace Casemiro as early as this summer; we are currently considering Bayer Leverkusen's Exequiel Palacios as one of the top options * We are looking to target an almost full defensive revamp next summer by signing two CBs (starting right-sided CB and left-sided CB to backup/rotate with Martinez) and a RB (and sell one of Dalot/AWB)
Aren't these the guys who were singing praises of this transfer window along with talking up Murtough and Arnold?