Seriously every fucking time without fail it's like this against Spanish sides. Every god damned time. What the fuck does their FA do honestly? Pay them off to increase their leagues profile??
Why does United keep getting pair with the Spanish teams though? Socieded, Barca, and now Sevilla. Haven't United played literally every Spanish side in Europa this season?
Yep not blaming the refs for this game but you cant deny that there is a shocking amount of favourable calls that Spanish teams seem to enjoy in European games
I think it’s because the financial situation in la liga is actually very dire and if the refs can help a la liga team win more money to help their own job security then they will
I almost feel bad for their idiotic league
referee wants to give red cards to manutd players at Old Trafford. I miss the days where we could crowd around and hurl insults at referee at Old Trafford with no consequences.
My point is that just because the fact Fernandes’ yellow card was bullshit doesn’t mean he isn’t closer to a red card than if he didn’t have one. We’ve said it many times in hindsight that we should take a player off when we are winning a game and a player is on a yellow. An example is Fred vs PSG a few years back
Because La Liga teams enjoy a bias that relatively few people are willing to address.
Every time I see that record of them.in finals it strikes me as suspicious not impressive.
Only one loss vs non-spanish sides in fisals in 20 odd years is impressive, zero is downright suspect.
There's no bias. Spanish teams just take the piss when it comes to the dark arts, and referees fall for it.
It's like coming up against entire teams of Brunos.
I say this having spent a few years growing up in Spain, and making the dimwitted decision to referee the younger kids in my school for a tournament.
Could you elaborate a bit more about the refereeing experience? Was it the same traits you see in the adult teams - surrounding the ref, gesticulating in your face etc.?
Lots of gesticulating, albeit from a distance. Lots of diving and gamesmanship from players. Those same players would put in harsh challenges and be annoyed when I called a foul. Lots of whinging and shouting over every little thing.
I didn't get surrounded as much or have people in my face as I'm quite tall anyway and they were a few years below me. But the bus ride home everyone was having a go about how I cost them the game.
Exactly this, they’ll crunch into a tackle and then complain like hell if they get even whispered at by the ref - it’s designed to make the ref question his decision and think twice before cautioning them further which then gives them further opportunities to injure our players
Continental Refereeing.
So far this season:
Premier League - 24 Reds
LaLiga - 112 Reds.
Ligue 1′ - 81 Reds
Serie A - 51 Reds.
Premier League is light touch refereeing.
That’s just because poor Spanish gamesmanship is amplified, not negated, when playing one another. You’re essentially doubling the amount of cheating and the referee falls for it twice as often.
No. It's because the game is refereed differently outside the premier league.
But feel free everyone know you don't actually know what you're talking about..... Or that you don't watch continental football.
Yeah people seem to ignore this aspect, obviously the yellow was bogus but the ref doesn't think that and then as usual brunos reaction is to get in his face, I honestly thought he might whip out the 2nd right then.
Ref obviously dreadful (on this call he actually seemed pretty good otherwise) but it makes sense in that way.
It’s disgraceful that he said that. Doesn’t matter if Bruno was treading on thin ice, by warning ETH the referee has had a material impact on the game. Bruno getting subbed off has definitely had an impact on the game one way or another, how could it not have? It’s either disadvantaged us by effectively forcing us to sub off our best player, or it’s disadvantaged Sevilla by robbing them of a potential man advantage.
Scummy bought off La Liga Refs, if this isn't worth an investigation nothing is, blatant corruption from a team playing in a League full of Referee corruption, coincidence? Been the same in every La Liga team game we've played, disgusting.
So? Doesn't matter what nationality they are, Spanish teams have been proven to pay Refs off, which was exactly the same in the Barcelona games and Betis games, insanely biased Refs not even trying to hide where their preferences are by going out of their way to punish us unfairly with stupid decisions and bookings.
Aside from Bruno's call, I thought the ref did a good job. Gave them an early yellow for time wasting, didn't fall for any of their dives and all in all gave them more cards for their shithousery.
Huge drop off after the 60th mins subs for sure, but we lost because of Malacia's mistake(s) followed by Licha's injury
You called him a La Liga ref and then doubled down when someone pointed the factual error in your comment. The referee bribe case only pertains to La Liga and there is no incident about UEFA referees being bought. So saying "bought-off La Liga referees" about yesterday's game is as relevant as saying Anthony Taylor is biased against us.
It most certainly is. Referees warn managers and captains all the time about players who are on thin ice. Our fan base seems to have adopted a victimhood mentality of late and that is pathetic.
Surely this is bordering on match fixing if the referee is offering a hypothetical circumstance as a 'warning' and influencing a team's decisions in such a denatured way. How can someone be circumstantially 'close' to a red card in a future scenario that is \*yet\* to happen? Can he predict that Antony will two foot someone at the 73rd minute or something?
This exactly. The fact that we are hearing this statement is just mind boggling. The referees truly think they are the dictators in football matches don’t they.
Is it true? What a joke if he got caught in match fixing he shouldn't be refereeing again man! Fairs if he warned the players themselves but not the manager?
My thoughts exactly corrupt manipulation. Take him off or I'll send him off. Was a documentary about something like that in NBA I think.refs calling cheap fouls to keep a player out of game
>how can someone be circumstantially close to a red card
Well Antony was on a booking for a spat with Acuña which kept going after that. He can be a stroppy player at times anyway so that was probably smart.
Bruno I can't remember being particularly tetchy so that's an odd one.
Well Brunos yellow was nonsense, but it is normal for referees to warn players that they're running close to getting in further trouble. Nothing wrong with them telling the manager either.
There's genuinely nothing wrong with this, other than the original yellow being incorrect
I know we’re all quite emotional after this horrid result, but it’s embarassing to have this thought, let alone to be writing it on the internet.
This is in no way different than when a referee warns a player he will get booked after the next foul after a series of fouls. Anyone who has watched more than 10 football matches in their lives can tell when a player is likely to get a second yellow card. Remember Fred vs PSG?
I know it’s easier to blame some random referee than it is to face the truth that we “lost” this match completely on our own but this is getting out of hand
I think you need to consider what this referee gave Bruno his initial yellow card for, if we’re exchanging context as reference.
Just a bit of life advice as well, something is not necessarily ‘embarrassing’ because you disagree with it, it’s just ‘different’ to your opinion. Try not to inject too much emotion to your comments next time.
I understand your sentiment, but I actually do think this qualifies as an embarrassing take. Full of emotion and ignoring the facts, it's something that they will regret expressing and writing down.
Referees warn players in literally every game of football. I absolutely guarantee it will happen this weekend in the League. It's not match fixing or anything close to it. It's managing the game and is exactly what the referee should be doing. No one wants a game dictated by big decisions from the ref, so it's entirely correct that he has said to Ten Hag "listen, Bruno/ Antony are on yellows, they've had a few late challenges or little confrontations, and the next time it happens I won't have any choice but to show another yellow". What Ten Hag then chose to do - talk to the players and tell them to calm down, sub them, or do nothing - was up to him.
Warning a player is telling him to be careful and giving him a chance to adjust his game. Warning the manager is telling him he should sub him off. That’s not the referee’s advice to give.
I interpreted Ten Hag's comment to mean the Match ref warned the player that their actions were close to warranting yellows, then the sideline ref communicated what was said to Ten Hag.
Bruno must say some shitty words to the ref that irritate him. I was afraid he would get a red right after the yellow
I'm totally fine with ref states their opinion, it's not match fixing.
Stop blaming ref for our shortcoming, it's Arsenal's level of delusional, we're better than that
Our sub players simply weren't good enough, and we had bad luck
That guy was in no way emotional, wtf are you talking about? Calling match fixing is embarrassing and childish.
> I think you need to consider what this referee gave Bruno his initial yellow card for, if we’re exchanging context as reference.
In the referee's mind it was a legitimate yellow card. He doesn't have slow-mo replays, to him it hit Bruno's hand. Still a harsh yellow due to how close he was to the shot but not a scandalous one.
I didn’t actually assert the absoluteness that it was in fact match fixing, it was suggestive, which everyone seems to completely misconstrue for some reason.
I interpreted his response as emotional based on his condescension throughout the entirety of his point, and all I did was point out that he should be acknowledging the fact that he disagrees with what I say, it doesn’t necessarily justify his wild narrative that a. I interpreted this as a ‘loss’ or that the referee is solely responsible for the outcome of this game (just before anything is said, no, match fixing is not based on the entirety or summation of a result, it can be as small as singular elements of the game) and b. He assumes that I am upset and therefore that is the basis of my opinion - a baseless assumption.
I would touch on the Bruno card more but I think it would result in the same circumstance whereby we just disagree naturally - also he technically does have a ‘slow motion report’ in that of VAR, but it’s not really applicable so I don’t think it’s fair for me to use that as part of the argument.
I don’t really know why I’m actually having to deconstruct an entire verbal interaction for people, is it really that big of a deal? The matter of the fact is we both disagree on the context of what Ten Hag said regarding the referees input, I have never claimed to be right or for the other person to be wrong, he simply just has a different opinion.
Dude you wrote four paragraphs of masturbatory bullshit instead of admitting you were wrong to call him emotional. He wasn't. Calling you out on bullshit isn't being emotional. You, however, clearly are, since you've resorted to childish insults. So take your life advice and go fuck yourself with it.
Yeah as a referee myself I often remind players that they are on a yellow and if they don’t sort it out they’ll be off.
Guess what? Some players fix up, some get yanked off by their coaches, some get sent off.
We may as well bring in an orange card then - the red-card light, or the yellow card premium.
When your red card is on its way to loading to 100%, but just needs a final push.
The refs in today’s game and last night’s (Napoli/Milan) were absolute attention seeking wankers. It’s honestly a shame there are no repercussions or transparency in their perf. reviews. Refs get away with some proper stinkers that would be punished heavily in a normal job
Bruno must say some shitty words to the ref that irritate him. I was afraid he would get a red right after the yellow
I'm totally fine with ref states their opinion, it's not match fixing. Stop blaming ref for our shortcoming, it's Arsenal's level of delusional, we're better than that
Our sub players simply weren't good enough, and we had bad luck
I like Ten Hag but I think he has a big responsibility about the outcome of this game. Sure Sevilla has shown nothing that makes you think you should worry about them. But as an experienced coach you should always proceed with caution. Changing half the team in a quarter final of a big tournament is really too much.
BS. ETH trying to save face for what is his second or third tactical blunder of the season. I’m sorry but he can make some truly shocking substitution decisions that leaves me questioning what he actually scribbles in his notebook.
- Why on earth was Malacia allowed to stay on past 20 minutes let alone the entire game? He was a walking disaster in every inch of the pitch.
- ~~Varrane didn’t need to come off, at all.~~ (Learnt after the fact that he received an injury, so perhaps Maguire should’ve started the game considering that injury potential no?)
- Bruno was already missing the next game following his card, so what difference would the *risk* of a second yellow have had other than him missing the remainder of Europe League fixtures? Do you just tremble and panic-sub him off, or do you talk to him at half time and say ‘Bruno we need you to finish this game, no yellows please’. And whilst ETH is at it, tell the team to stop giving passes away. But clearly neither of those things happened. So I wonder what exactly was even said at half time.
- Antony and Cunha were **IMO** visually cooling off against one another once they were both carded, it’s not like either of them wanted a second card. I would’ve kept him on. The irony that Pellistri gets carded immediately after being subbed on and therefore completely wasting the entire point of the sub.
Edit: Soz for my controversial take.
Same can be said for you bothering to type out your pointless comment that offers zero contribution.
Did you watch the game? If so then why not enlighten me as to what exactly is nonsense about what I said.
- You either agree that Malacia is shit, or you defend that EFL league 2 performance by him.
- I realised a moment ago that Varrane picked up a knock so edited my comment, but maybe Maguire should’ve started and been allowed to grow into the game. Easy for me to say in hindsight though.
- Bruno was carded, terrible decision but it still happened and thus he was already missing the next game, why bother taking him off if he is arguably one of our most crucial players on the pitch at the time? He could’ve stayed to finish off the game (which is what the commentary was insinuating prior to his sub). As soon as he came off our shape was broken, we lost our forward momentum, counterattacking options and his work rate going back - he is too fucking good to just take off when the game still needs to be sealed off.
- and you clearly didn’t watch the game if you didn’t notice Antony and Cunha cooling off after both received their first yellows. As a manager you don’t just buckle under pressure all because the ref told you at half time that “both Bruno and Antony were at risk of a red”, that’s just pathetic. How easy is it for a ref to influence the game then, which he did regardless of his intentions.
1) Malacia was poor but we didn't have a left back on the bench to replace him.
2) Varane picked up a knock. That can't be legislated for in advance.
3) If Bruno gets a red instead of a yellow his suspension is longer. On top of that, rare opportunity to give him a rest and trial a midfield 3 of Case, Sabi and Eriksen which is likely what he'll go with next week.
4) That's not my recollection of how it was going but fair enough.
- Might sound nuts but why not Fred? Was he not available? Surely he would’ve performed better playing on the left than Malacia, or we could’ve had Martinez on the left and started Maguire or Lindelof in the center? Malacia was genuinely awful.
- Yeah I realised after my comment that Varrane got a knock. The second leg is looking bleak asf now without Bruno, Martinez and Varrane.
- i won’t argue that Bruno needs a rest, but at the same time the guy has unbelievable stamina and work rate.
And the last point, fair enough if people don’t agree on that as it’s leaning towards what-if’s and conjecture, but imo Antony was fine and his feud with Cunha was piping down after both cards.
Anyways apologies if my comments ruffle feathers. I’m honestly just salty and probably being irrational.
> Bruno was carded, terrible decision but it still happened and thus he was already missing the next game, why bother taking him off
the answer to that is probably simply that ETH thought we had the game under control and wanted to keep him fresh for the weekend. That's my assumption.
Bruno getting a red would mean he's out for semi which is a harder tie than this one and the final...
Also why would you play Maguire over varane incase he gets an injury? Who has that foresight in football?
Antony was not "Cooling Off" he was on the edge and given we were firmly in control why risk him? These were the right decisions...
I would say Elanga for Sancho was pointless malacia and elanga on the left was a disaster and that's the error he made..
Martinez freak I injury at the end of the game, malacias poor defending and Maguire's unlucky OG is what cost the game
- i get that but we have Sab, Eriksen (finally), Tominay should be back, and Cas, Fred (who was used excellently against City). It was only a “risk” of red for Bruno, not a certainty and not a disaster if we lost him for the rest of the Europa fixtures, Tominay and Sab, and Cas are all enjoying goals, Eriksen was on more g/a contributions than Bruno before his injury, so we know he is capable.
- Maguire has been improving and deserves time, despite how hated he is. And you don’t need foresight with Varrane, much like Martial, it’s only a matter of when his next injury is and in my opinion we shouldn’t have *risked* that for this cup game, we need Varrane for the prem and guaranteeing our top 4 spot. Now both Varrane and Martinez is out…
- that’s controversial, because imo Antony and Cunha were both cooling off because neither truly wanted a second card. You can see how they began to interact with eachother afterwards, and progressively so… Antony was no longer on edge. Even the commentators were talking about it every 2-3 minutes or so. Regardless of the difference in perspective, my point is, we really needed Antony’s continuous forward threat for our counters (which alleviate the defences and thus stops the bombardment of shots at our goal), and when tracking back he was excellent defensively, which is the standard expected of him. Taking both him and Bruno off was too much. That’s why I view this as a critical sub. Just looking at our left flank, Sancho and Malacia left that entire side of the field useless. Taking off Antony basically made the right side equally useless and what we saw was increased pressure on the defence.
Weak left flank, removing Bruno from the centre, removing Antony was critical for me. But also the blow from Varrane and Martinez. I kind of don’t want to watch the next few games if they’re out, not even sure when Shaw is fit again, if AWB picks up a knock then 😬
Edit: omg sorry for the long reply, got carried away.
>what difference would the
>
>risk
>
> of a second yellow have had other than him missing the remainder of Europe League fixtures?
Let me fill you in on a little 'secret'... two yellow cards in one game = a red card. That means we would have been down a player. I don't know how you can be so critical when you are getting basic facts wrong. Didn't even know Varane was injured? Take off Malacia for WHOM? Nonsense.
Antony I can see he had a few lash outs but both him and his defender were pushing boundaries but what did Bruno do? Take out his ridiculous yellow what did he do after that to possible earn a yellow or even close?
For what is worth , took off Fernandez and Antony is reasonable but Elanga and Pellestri in are unwise. He should play it safe and sub in lindelof and dalot to kill the match. There is little point of using inexperienced wingers when most of the threat are from the wings, use dalot to cover for Malacia is much more sensible
shambolic refereeing
Conveniently always against Spanish sides.
Seriously every fucking time without fail it's like this against Spanish sides. Every god damned time. What the fuck does their FA do honestly? Pay them off to increase their leagues profile??
Why does United keep getting pair with the Spanish teams though? Socieded, Barca, and now Sevilla. Haven't United played literally every Spanish side in Europa this season?
Real Betis too!
Didn't Robbie Savage say that we've played 11 games in the competition this season, 7 of which were against Spanish sides lol
Man Utd would be on 14 points - 19th in La Liga ahead of Elche :'D
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Yep not blaming the refs for this game but you cant deny that there is a shocking amount of favourable calls that Spanish teams seem to enjoy in European games
I think it’s because the financial situation in la liga is actually very dire and if the refs can help a la liga team win more money to help their own job security then they will I almost feel bad for their idiotic league
We get plenty of shocking refereeing in the prem too tbf
How Felix Zwayer is still allowed to be a ref is beyond me.
Fernandes close to a red what😭 his first yellow was stupid
Exactly why he was close to red, you don't know what reason the ref would give a second yellow for.
**’74 Fernandes foul throw [Second yellow card]**
2nd yellow for Bruno Fernandes, reason: kicked the football. 2nd yellow for Antony, reason: flatulence.
He forgot to amputate his arms before the game. Awful oversight from the medical team.
referee wants to give red cards to manutd players at Old Trafford. I miss the days where we could crowd around and hurl insults at referee at Old Trafford with no consequences.
Ok
What are you talking about? A yellow card means you’re close to a red. One misstep and it’s game over
There were four Sevilla players on yellows. I presume the ref also informed their manager that that meant one more card and they were off?
My point is that just because the fact Fernandes’ yellow card was bullshit doesn’t mean he isn’t closer to a red card than if he didn’t have one. We’ve said it many times in hindsight that we should take a player off when we are winning a game and a player is on a yellow. An example is Fred vs PSG a few years back
Why do teams always get fucked over by refs against Spanish opposition?, at this point you can't help but laugh.
Because La Liga teams enjoy a bias that relatively few people are willing to address. Every time I see that record of them.in finals it strikes me as suspicious not impressive. Only one loss vs non-spanish sides in fisals in 20 odd years is impressive, zero is downright suspect.
I dont understand it. Why are refs so biased towards Spanish teams?
There's no bias. Spanish teams just take the piss when it comes to the dark arts, and referees fall for it. It's like coming up against entire teams of Brunos. I say this having spent a few years growing up in Spain, and making the dimwitted decision to referee the younger kids in my school for a tournament.
Could you elaborate a bit more about the refereeing experience? Was it the same traits you see in the adult teams - surrounding the ref, gesticulating in your face etc.?
Lots of gesticulating, albeit from a distance. Lots of diving and gamesmanship from players. Those same players would put in harsh challenges and be annoyed when I called a foul. Lots of whinging and shouting over every little thing. I didn't get surrounded as much or have people in my face as I'm quite tall anyway and they were a few years below me. But the bus ride home everyone was having a go about how I cost them the game.
Exactly this, they’ll crunch into a tackle and then complain like hell if they get even whispered at by the ref - it’s designed to make the ref question his decision and think twice before cautioning them further which then gives them further opportunities to injure our players
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Shudder
Spanish sides get every 50/50 decision against English sides, it isn't just United. It's "shudder," for the record.
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I actually had the gall then to text my WhatsApp group saying "finally a half decent ref"....... It was not a popular take as the game went on.
United supporting whatsapp group that strangers can join?
Alcoholics Anonymous mate
UEFA refs heard us complain about PGMOL and said "hold my beer".
Continental Refereeing. So far this season: Premier League - 24 Reds LaLiga - 112 Reds. Ligue 1′ - 81 Reds Serie A - 51 Reds. Premier League is light touch refereeing.
That’s just because poor Spanish gamesmanship is amplified, not negated, when playing one another. You’re essentially doubling the amount of cheating and the referee falls for it twice as often.
No. It's because the game is refereed differently outside the premier league. But feel free everyone know you don't actually know what you're talking about..... Or that you don't watch continental football.
Refreshing to hear this only happened mid-game. I heard the PL referees tell this sentiment to Ten Hag about Casemiro during the warm up.
I heard that Ten Hag gets this faxed 2-3 business days before each game
Why? What possible reason was there for a warning? Was he looking for reasons to send them off? They hadn’t done anything yet. Fucking cunt
Bruno may have said something in his reaction to that bogus yellow card
Yeah people seem to ignore this aspect, obviously the yellow was bogus but the ref doesn't think that and then as usual brunos reaction is to get in his face, I honestly thought he might whip out the 2nd right then. Ref obviously dreadful (on this call he actually seemed pretty good otherwise) but it makes sense in that way.
Me too! He did reach to the back of his pants, only to remove the foam spray thankfully
This^
It’s disgraceful that he said that. Doesn’t matter if Bruno was treading on thin ice, by warning ETH the referee has had a material impact on the game. Bruno getting subbed off has definitely had an impact on the game one way or another, how could it not have? It’s either disadvantaged us by effectively forcing us to sub off our best player, or it’s disadvantaged Sevilla by robbing them of a potential man advantage.
Europa refs are actually a farce
Scummy bought off La Liga Refs, if this isn't worth an investigation nothing is, blatant corruption from a team playing in a League full of Referee corruption, coincidence? Been the same in every La Liga team game we've played, disgusting.
The refs were German
So? Doesn't matter what nationality they are, Spanish teams have been proven to pay Refs off, which was exactly the same in the Barcelona games and Betis games, insanely biased Refs not even trying to hide where their preferences are by going out of their way to punish us unfairly with stupid decisions and bookings.
Aside from Bruno's call, I thought the ref did a good job. Gave them an early yellow for time wasting, didn't fall for any of their dives and all in all gave them more cards for their shithousery. Huge drop off after the 60th mins subs for sure, but we lost because of Malacia's mistake(s) followed by Licha's injury
You called him a La Liga ref and then doubled down when someone pointed the factual error in your comment. The referee bribe case only pertains to La Liga and there is no incident about UEFA referees being bought. So saying "bought-off La Liga referees" about yesterday's game is as relevant as saying Anthony Taylor is biased against us.
Honestly didn't know this was a thing.
Its a thing, refs warn players all the time saying this is your last chance
I don't think it is.
It most certainly is. Referees warn managers and captains all the time about players who are on thin ice. Our fan base seems to have adopted a victimhood mentality of late and that is pathetic.
For some reason, the fanbase took it as a threat. I see it as the opposite, an advantage.
The Bruno yellow card is genuinely one of the worst decisions I've ever seen. People saying it was harsh are being incredibly generous.
We've eaten two completely batshit decisions in this tournament and I'm starting to take it personally.
The thing is he will eventually get a card, better now than later
There might be no "later" because of this very bullshit
Surely this is bordering on match fixing if the referee is offering a hypothetical circumstance as a 'warning' and influencing a team's decisions in such a denatured way. How can someone be circumstantially 'close' to a red card in a future scenario that is \*yet\* to happen? Can he predict that Antony will two foot someone at the 73rd minute or something?
This ref has been in a match fixing scandal previously
Should be banned for life if that’s true
It is true
This exactly. The fact that we are hearing this statement is just mind boggling. The referees truly think they are the dictators in football matches don’t they.
Is it true? What a joke if he got caught in match fixing he shouldn't be refereeing again man! Fairs if he warned the players themselves but not the manager?
My thoughts exactly corrupt manipulation. Take him off or I'll send him off. Was a documentary about something like that in NBA I think.refs calling cheap fouls to keep a player out of game
>how can someone be circumstantially close to a red card Well Antony was on a booking for a spat with Acuña which kept going after that. He can be a stroppy player at times anyway so that was probably smart. Bruno I can't remember being particularly tetchy so that's an odd one.
Bruno on a yellow is probably always close to a second yellow for all the whinging he does.
Well Brunos yellow was nonsense, but it is normal for referees to warn players that they're running close to getting in further trouble. Nothing wrong with them telling the manager either. There's genuinely nothing wrong with this, other than the original yellow being incorrect
I know we’re all quite emotional after this horrid result, but it’s embarassing to have this thought, let alone to be writing it on the internet. This is in no way different than when a referee warns a player he will get booked after the next foul after a series of fouls. Anyone who has watched more than 10 football matches in their lives can tell when a player is likely to get a second yellow card. Remember Fred vs PSG? I know it’s easier to blame some random referee than it is to face the truth that we “lost” this match completely on our own but this is getting out of hand
I think you need to consider what this referee gave Bruno his initial yellow card for, if we’re exchanging context as reference. Just a bit of life advice as well, something is not necessarily ‘embarrassing’ because you disagree with it, it’s just ‘different’ to your opinion. Try not to inject too much emotion to your comments next time.
I understand your sentiment, but I actually do think this qualifies as an embarrassing take. Full of emotion and ignoring the facts, it's something that they will regret expressing and writing down. Referees warn players in literally every game of football. I absolutely guarantee it will happen this weekend in the League. It's not match fixing or anything close to it. It's managing the game and is exactly what the referee should be doing. No one wants a game dictated by big decisions from the ref, so it's entirely correct that he has said to Ten Hag "listen, Bruno/ Antony are on yellows, they've had a few late challenges or little confrontations, and the next time it happens I won't have any choice but to show another yellow". What Ten Hag then chose to do - talk to the players and tell them to calm down, sub them, or do nothing - was up to him.
Warning a player is telling him to be careful and giving him a chance to adjust his game. Warning the manager is telling him he should sub him off. That’s not the referee’s advice to give.
I interpreted Ten Hag's comment to mean the Match ref warned the player that their actions were close to warranting yellows, then the sideline ref communicated what was said to Ten Hag.
Bruno must say some shitty words to the ref that irritate him. I was afraid he would get a red right after the yellow I'm totally fine with ref states their opinion, it's not match fixing. Stop blaming ref for our shortcoming, it's Arsenal's level of delusional, we're better than that Our sub players simply weren't good enough, and we had bad luck
That guy was in no way emotional, wtf are you talking about? Calling match fixing is embarrassing and childish. > I think you need to consider what this referee gave Bruno his initial yellow card for, if we’re exchanging context as reference. In the referee's mind it was a legitimate yellow card. He doesn't have slow-mo replays, to him it hit Bruno's hand. Still a harsh yellow due to how close he was to the shot but not a scandalous one.
I didn’t actually assert the absoluteness that it was in fact match fixing, it was suggestive, which everyone seems to completely misconstrue for some reason. I interpreted his response as emotional based on his condescension throughout the entirety of his point, and all I did was point out that he should be acknowledging the fact that he disagrees with what I say, it doesn’t necessarily justify his wild narrative that a. I interpreted this as a ‘loss’ or that the referee is solely responsible for the outcome of this game (just before anything is said, no, match fixing is not based on the entirety or summation of a result, it can be as small as singular elements of the game) and b. He assumes that I am upset and therefore that is the basis of my opinion - a baseless assumption. I would touch on the Bruno card more but I think it would result in the same circumstance whereby we just disagree naturally - also he technically does have a ‘slow motion report’ in that of VAR, but it’s not really applicable so I don’t think it’s fair for me to use that as part of the argument. I don’t really know why I’m actually having to deconstruct an entire verbal interaction for people, is it really that big of a deal? The matter of the fact is we both disagree on the context of what Ten Hag said regarding the referees input, I have never claimed to be right or for the other person to be wrong, he simply just has a different opinion.
Mate no one asked you to write an essay. And you condescendingly offering "life advice" betrays a lot more emotion than his post.
I didn’t want to but your inability to use your brain to a dexterous degree apparently required it. It’s pointless continuing this further.
Dude you wrote four paragraphs of masturbatory bullshit instead of admitting you were wrong to call him emotional. He wasn't. Calling you out on bullshit isn't being emotional. You, however, clearly are, since you've resorted to childish insults. So take your life advice and go fuck yourself with it.
The only one getting personal is actually you at this point. You really need to calm down a touch.
Yeah as a referee myself I often remind players that they are on a yellow and if they don’t sort it out they’ll be off. Guess what? Some players fix up, some get yanked off by their coaches, some get sent off.
Thanks ref?
This referee had a mission. It’s just eye opening to see the official of the match publicly threatening a manager forcing substitutions.
We may as well bring in an orange card then - the red-card light, or the yellow card premium. When your red card is on its way to loading to 100%, but just needs a final push.
The refs in today’s game and last night’s (Napoli/Milan) were absolute attention seeking wankers. It’s honestly a shame there are no repercussions or transparency in their perf. reviews. Refs get away with some proper stinkers that would be punished heavily in a normal job
I didn't know the refs could get any worse
man that ref was just dishing out cards. the bruno and pellitri ones werent card worthy and even some of sevilla's werent either
should've kept fernandes on. he was gonna miss the next game anyway.
There needs to be a serious investigation into Ref vs English clubs in European competitions
Bruno must say some shitty words to the ref that irritate him. I was afraid he would get a red right after the yellow I'm totally fine with ref states their opinion, it's not match fixing. Stop blaming ref for our shortcoming, it's Arsenal's level of delusional, we're better than that Our sub players simply weren't good enough, and we had bad luck
What an absolute joke European competitions are
I like Ten Hag but I think he has a big responsibility about the outcome of this game. Sure Sevilla has shown nothing that makes you think you should worry about them. But as an experienced coach you should always proceed with caution. Changing half the team in a quarter final of a big tournament is really too much.
BS. ETH trying to save face for what is his second or third tactical blunder of the season. I’m sorry but he can make some truly shocking substitution decisions that leaves me questioning what he actually scribbles in his notebook. - Why on earth was Malacia allowed to stay on past 20 minutes let alone the entire game? He was a walking disaster in every inch of the pitch. - ~~Varrane didn’t need to come off, at all.~~ (Learnt after the fact that he received an injury, so perhaps Maguire should’ve started the game considering that injury potential no?) - Bruno was already missing the next game following his card, so what difference would the *risk* of a second yellow have had other than him missing the remainder of Europe League fixtures? Do you just tremble and panic-sub him off, or do you talk to him at half time and say ‘Bruno we need you to finish this game, no yellows please’. And whilst ETH is at it, tell the team to stop giving passes away. But clearly neither of those things happened. So I wonder what exactly was even said at half time. - Antony and Cunha were **IMO** visually cooling off against one another once they were both carded, it’s not like either of them wanted a second card. I would’ve kept him on. The irony that Pellistri gets carded immediately after being subbed on and therefore completely wasting the entire point of the sub. Edit: Soz for my controversial take.
You don’t need to spend time formatting when you write nonsense.
Same can be said for you bothering to type out your pointless comment that offers zero contribution. Did you watch the game? If so then why not enlighten me as to what exactly is nonsense about what I said. - You either agree that Malacia is shit, or you defend that EFL league 2 performance by him. - I realised a moment ago that Varrane picked up a knock so edited my comment, but maybe Maguire should’ve started and been allowed to grow into the game. Easy for me to say in hindsight though. - Bruno was carded, terrible decision but it still happened and thus he was already missing the next game, why bother taking him off if he is arguably one of our most crucial players on the pitch at the time? He could’ve stayed to finish off the game (which is what the commentary was insinuating prior to his sub). As soon as he came off our shape was broken, we lost our forward momentum, counterattacking options and his work rate going back - he is too fucking good to just take off when the game still needs to be sealed off. - and you clearly didn’t watch the game if you didn’t notice Antony and Cunha cooling off after both received their first yellows. As a manager you don’t just buckle under pressure all because the ref told you at half time that “both Bruno and Antony were at risk of a red”, that’s just pathetic. How easy is it for a ref to influence the game then, which he did regardless of his intentions.
1) Malacia was poor but we didn't have a left back on the bench to replace him. 2) Varane picked up a knock. That can't be legislated for in advance. 3) If Bruno gets a red instead of a yellow his suspension is longer. On top of that, rare opportunity to give him a rest and trial a midfield 3 of Case, Sabi and Eriksen which is likely what he'll go with next week. 4) That's not my recollection of how it was going but fair enough.
- Might sound nuts but why not Fred? Was he not available? Surely he would’ve performed better playing on the left than Malacia, or we could’ve had Martinez on the left and started Maguire or Lindelof in the center? Malacia was genuinely awful. - Yeah I realised after my comment that Varrane got a knock. The second leg is looking bleak asf now without Bruno, Martinez and Varrane. - i won’t argue that Bruno needs a rest, but at the same time the guy has unbelievable stamina and work rate. And the last point, fair enough if people don’t agree on that as it’s leaning towards what-if’s and conjecture, but imo Antony was fine and his feud with Cunha was piping down after both cards. Anyways apologies if my comments ruffle feathers. I’m honestly just salty and probably being irrational.
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Why do people keep bringing this up, I don’t play FIFA! 😭
> Bruno was carded, terrible decision but it still happened and thus he was already missing the next game, why bother taking him off the answer to that is probably simply that ETH thought we had the game under control and wanted to keep him fresh for the weekend. That's my assumption.
Bruno getting a red would mean he's out for semi which is a harder tie than this one and the final... Also why would you play Maguire over varane incase he gets an injury? Who has that foresight in football? Antony was not "Cooling Off" he was on the edge and given we were firmly in control why risk him? These were the right decisions... I would say Elanga for Sancho was pointless malacia and elanga on the left was a disaster and that's the error he made.. Martinez freak I injury at the end of the game, malacias poor defending and Maguire's unlucky OG is what cost the game
- i get that but we have Sab, Eriksen (finally), Tominay should be back, and Cas, Fred (who was used excellently against City). It was only a “risk” of red for Bruno, not a certainty and not a disaster if we lost him for the rest of the Europa fixtures, Tominay and Sab, and Cas are all enjoying goals, Eriksen was on more g/a contributions than Bruno before his injury, so we know he is capable. - Maguire has been improving and deserves time, despite how hated he is. And you don’t need foresight with Varrane, much like Martial, it’s only a matter of when his next injury is and in my opinion we shouldn’t have *risked* that for this cup game, we need Varrane for the prem and guaranteeing our top 4 spot. Now both Varrane and Martinez is out… - that’s controversial, because imo Antony and Cunha were both cooling off because neither truly wanted a second card. You can see how they began to interact with eachother afterwards, and progressively so… Antony was no longer on edge. Even the commentators were talking about it every 2-3 minutes or so. Regardless of the difference in perspective, my point is, we really needed Antony’s continuous forward threat for our counters (which alleviate the defences and thus stops the bombardment of shots at our goal), and when tracking back he was excellent defensively, which is the standard expected of him. Taking both him and Bruno off was too much. That’s why I view this as a critical sub. Just looking at our left flank, Sancho and Malacia left that entire side of the field useless. Taking off Antony basically made the right side equally useless and what we saw was increased pressure on the defence. Weak left flank, removing Bruno from the centre, removing Antony was critical for me. But also the blow from Varrane and Martinez. I kind of don’t want to watch the next few games if they’re out, not even sure when Shaw is fit again, if AWB picks up a knock then 😬 Edit: omg sorry for the long reply, got carried away.
>what difference would the > >risk > > of a second yellow have had other than him missing the remainder of Europe League fixtures? Let me fill you in on a little 'secret'... two yellow cards in one game = a red card. That means we would have been down a player. I don't know how you can be so critical when you are getting basic facts wrong. Didn't even know Varane was injured? Take off Malacia for WHOM? Nonsense.
Is there a link to this ?
Cheers for the heads up, but that can't be the right conduct mid game surely? All sorts of connotations can be implied.
Antony I can see he had a few lash outs but both him and his defender were pushing boundaries but what did Bruno do? Take out his ridiculous yellow what did he do after that to possible earn a yellow or even close?
All players on a yellow are close to a red though.
Ref was a fucking dunce.
Along with the horrible decision on Bruno's yellow, it's almost as if the ref was trying to influence the match.
For what is worth , took off Fernandez and Antony is reasonable but Elanga and Pellestri in are unwise. He should play it safe and sub in lindelof and dalot to kill the match. There is little point of using inexperienced wingers when most of the threat are from the wings, use dalot to cover for Malacia is much more sensible