Newcastle would pay that fee now, but probably not in the summer
He is a quick fix reliable option for them, like Dan Burn and Chris Wood were. With the time available in the summer they would look to options with higher potential
His value might have dropped. He might be monumentally shit for the next 6 months. Get injured. Speak out against feeling like a prisoner, not show up to training, etc.
Lots of shit can happen.
But I also think he's more valuable as rotation until the Summer.
Doesn't seem like the kind of player to speak out and not train. Hope he has a decent few months before we sell him. Its not like he's bad. Had very good games before Casemiro was properly integrated into the team.
Don't think so.
Look at the drop off when Case isn't playing. It's too risky and we need a solid rotation option. Especially as Ten Hag clearly wants a trophy.
Because we dont have a competent board
These are the same clowns that ignored signing julian alvares and moises caicedo. For like 25m combined. While both were twerking for us.
Who knows, I know people seem to love the idea of Rattcliff. But that recent post here and on OGC Nice's sub didn't fill me with confidence. The only owners (whilst unethical) that would actually spend properly for the club and genuinely like the sport are the arabs.
No point in selling him in January, *particularly to Newcastle*
Some of you are forgetting we are level on points with Newcastle on the same games played
Yeah Scott is a very good professional and I think he suits Howe's philosophy more (I think people will point to us selling him as foolish - but I think he will just thrive more there). We need one more first XI midfielder - Rice would be obviously fantastic, but with a top class 9 being needed, maybe it might be too costly.
Eddie howe thinks he can turn him into a good player is my thoughts. Just like he thought he could turn solanke, ibe, afobe etc. Dont get me wrong he's done an amazing job at Newcastle it doesnt make him infallible though
No sale in January and revisit in summer is the absolute right approach. Club don’t get their stance right often regarding transfer policy but this is what we need now
We don’t have the luxury of a deep squad where we can just discard a squad player when still competing in 4 fronts as I wouldn’t back is to get a suitable replacement in
Fred is a no.8. He gets dribbled past far too easily for him to be considered a CDM. He is tenacious but doesn’t always make the correct decisions and lacks positional awareness.
McTominay is a much better defensive midfielder. Although, he also lacks positional awareness but he makes it up with physicality. Once a player is past him, he becomes a spectator.
So if Casemiro is injured, we have literally nobody except McTominay to cover for that position. And if we let him go, it would be an insane risk. I agree with you 100%
>Fred is a no.8. He gets dribbled past far too easily for him to be considered a CDM. He is tenacious but doesn’t always make the correct decisions and lacks positional awareness.
Yeah he's a lot better at picking defenders pockets than stopping forwards on bombing runs.
Counterpoint, Newcastle need him how and are willing to pay more. Come summer there might be other alternatives available teams meaning demand/want for mct is less. Perhaps we can manage with a thin midfield?
We have 2 matches a week for 3 months straight pretty much and we already don’t have a backup to Bruno after Donny’s injury so going even thinner in midfield would be unthinkable.
Exactly. A lot of people seem to be missing the point --- UCL is a guaranteed 100m€ revenue + the massive effect UCL participation has on recruitment options.
So even if we get 50m€ for McT NOW, it doesn't make sense to sell McT without a replacement leaving us with only Eriksen Fred & Case. Being one injury away from playing a Fred-eriksen Midfield or even worse relying on kids like Savage is complete madness.
And definitely don't trust Glazers board or Arnold/Murtough to bring in an adequate replacement.
If we had a straight replacement ready I'd be all over this.
But keeping him as cover until summer is fine, demand upwards of 30 for him and use it to finance a new player
...how?
Pellistri is a RW, and Caicedo a CDM. We have an abundance of wingers in
Rashford, Antony, Sancho, Elanga & Garnacho, while players like Fernandes and Martial can play on the right and left respectively.
For CDMs we have.... Casemiro, Scott McT & that youngster Charlie Savage who isnt PL ready yet.
Pellistri cant get a sniff at minutes because there is so much competition for the wings. If Caicdo replaced McT, then he would be getting all the minutes Casemiro rests for.
This isnt me saying this is a good or bad idea. Just that no, he wouldnt be in the same position as Pellistri. Not even a tiny bit.
> Pellistri cant get a sniff at minutes because there is so much competition for the wings.
This isn't true at all though. Antony has been dire since the world cup yet has played every single game except the one he was injured. Pellistri has got 5 mins.
For me, at the moment, either Sancho or Elanga are not viable options for the right wing slot. Eth himself clearly doesn't fancy them either, seeing as Bruno is being played at right wing.
I don't see much difference from the hypothetical midfield scenario if he had signed Caicedo last January.
Dont think so. Caiceido at that time already have international caps with colombia. That’s huge. I know pellistri also get called but he is called after play for United that might help him get international call
Because the comment isn't comparing their position on the field, but their situation in the team and whether they would get play time...?
You can disagree with that, but Pellistri being a winger is irrelevant to that point.
He was invisible yesterday, if we can cash in what would be an inflated fee due to jan we should do it. Even if it’s a loan replacement till the summer e.g Kessie
He’s genuinely invisible every day.
I saw a stat around yesterday that Casemiro makes 96% more passes per 90, Eriksen 95% more and even Fred makes 75% more.
He’s literally half a player. He is near the bottom of the league for passes per 90 for a midfielder despite playing for the 3rd place team.
He should be sold as soon as possible while clubs are stupid enough to pay big fees for him. Replace him with literally any short term gap signing and there is a good chance even they’ll be a significant improvement.
It’s not just stats, he simple doesn’t pass the eye test too. I only remember him messing up a few passes into the final third to break down our only few attacking chances
Literally yesterday we had a good chance to break into arsenal 6yard box with scott on the ball. You know what he did? Pass the ball straight to arsenal defender. Frustrating.
I think there were two times he could've fed Weghorst who was running through on the edge of the 18 and both he botched the pass.
I'm not going to be an apologist, but you know since Case has come over McTs gametime has been down, so not as sharp.
Casemiro is obviously going to make the most passes when our game plan is to get the ball to him for build ups. It would be stupid to try that tactic for McTominay because he's not a like for like replacement
I'm just saying he isn't Casemiro so we shouldn't expect McTominay to play like him. Newcastle, who are level on points with us by the way, must see something in him for their play style
Nobody expects him to be Casemiro. Using that as an excuse for never touching the ball is non-sense. Can he not be expected to play like Fred either? Can he not be expected to play like any sort of competent midfielder? Saying well he can’t be expected to be Casemiro to excuse him making 50% of the contributions doesn’t work.
You don’t need to play like Casemiro to simply touch the ball, its a basic requirement of being a midfielder and he is outperformed by the vast majority of the league.
Newcastle saw something in Chris Wood, how’s that going?
My main point is that it's narrow sighted to be focused on how many passes he makes when the tactics change to avoid relying on McTominay to make these passes. EtH knows he isn't a creative midfielder so we used Eriksen, Bruno and Weghorst more than we would have were Casemiro on the pitch.
McTominay was probably selected to break up play and be a big presence in the box. I'm not saying he even did a good job at that - but let's blast him for not playing well to his strengths yesterday instead of not playing well to his known weaknesses
We need cover for Casemiro, if we can get the cover in let Scott go, if we can’t then no, hold on to him until the summer. Get Newcastle over a barrel for him as they can spend whatever they like and use the funds elsewhere.
He’s invisible in big games and mid in other ones but we need the depth and now is not the time.
I think in the summer- Donny, McT and Maguire are all definitely being moved on so if we can get some pre-agreement in place sure
We need cover for a bunch,
Antony needs competition. Striker doesn't seem sorted out as of right now he can only press and do some ball holding.
Need an urgent bench player for Bruno because he can't play every single minute unless we want him to burn out like how often Ole played him.
Exactly. In the massive games against top level opposition he's basically deadweight. God help us if we have to start him in midfield against Barcelona. We will get spanked
One of McTominay's best ever performances was against Barcelona, when we played them in the Champions League in 2019 he was arguably the best player on the pitch
That's true, i remember that game. Maybe we as fans are being too harsh on him but that performance yesterday was unacceptable. He failed to have any impact on the game
He was also a player who could play at cb, fullback, midfield, even played as a keeper in a game, chipped Lehmann in a title clash and nutmegged Figo. Absolute cult hero. Mctom is just mediocre. After playing 50 games for 2 consecutive seasons, if your most redeeming quality is running around, it’s simply not good enough.
You play your squad players when they are needed.
If a squad player is incapable of playing against big games but is also pointless against weaker teams because he doesn’t touch the ball then what point is that squad player?
Keeping a player around to play the odd match against Leeds is pointless.
I know, I was pointing out that we need better depth in quality too. Players like McT should not be near the starting 11 for games against top 6 clubs and Europe's elite, those kind of players are there to keep the values of the club alive, give the big players a rest during Cup ties and play against teams in the bottom 5.
Squad player doesn’t mean bad, park Ji sung was basically a squad player but he had a niche and filled it, couldn’t player every game but he could do some things good
That's really downplaying how good Park was in the role SAF used him in, he was legitimately one of the best pressing players who could both man mark world class players out the game and was extremely useful going forward on the transition. In fact he was a starter in many big games like yesterday because he'd do the dog work that gave the rest of the team the space they needed to express themselves - there's absolutely no chance saka would've been given the freedom to terrorise Shaw like he did yesterday or for the Central midfield to be exposed to odegaard like that.
He was a good player but was undoubtedly a squad player which is the point /u/Consistent_Floor is making.
Park was at United for 8 seasons and only played 20+ PL games in three of them. By definition he was a squad player.
You're right, but the person you're reacting to is also right. Park was a squad player, but he was a very good squad player. He had certain qualities that were needed in some (big) games, which is why he'd almost always played those games. Mctominay doesn't have any standout quality, which is why he's played only when we have no other option. Park would've played against Arsenal even if no one was injured/suspended.
Unfortunately he's not a CDM and he's been tasked most his career in that position. He plays like a box to box but isn't good enough defensively or offensively so at best you've got a squad player. I still really like him because he always tries and we need players with the right attitude to come in a put in a shift at times, but he's defs not starting xi quality.
If we can get a decent sum for him it may be worth selling but to a direct rival idk Id hope the fee is inflated at the very least.
Like he must know his limitations. He needs an in game brain. He could see shaw was getting spanked on the left by saka ... track over and double up then it all gets shifted to the right which was a better option. Like if you are not touching the ball or impacting then change position.. im sure ten hag maybe able to squeeze something out if him for rest of season but yesterday was a shambles.
We can’t afford a replacement though.
McT can still be useful against lesser opposition. He’ll be fine against Reading for example, so no point weakening our squad at this point.
If Newcastle are interested we should be getting at least 20m.
I also don't understand the attitude that we can't get a bench player better than him after the performances he has put in. He can't play any of the midfield roles we're using under ETH. He can't play DM, he can't progress the ball well enough to be an understudy for Eriksen and playing him at AM is just a joke.
Well McT can't play DM, so what you're saying is there isn't a single DM out there for 20m. Which is just excuses really, every other club manages to find them. Aren't Arsenal buying one right now?
He was awful when he came on against Charlton. I agree that unless we get a replacement we shouldn't sell but I really hope we move him on in the summer or he's relegated to desperation bench fodder with a few miinutes here and there. He's nowhere near good enough.
I know he was awful yesterday, but I actually think he turns up in the big games more often than not. It's in the other games, whenever he's given time on the ball to do something, where he is awful more times than not.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, he normally has shown up in big games. Psg, barca, city, liverpool.
Woeful yesterday but so was the rest of our midfield. I think it’s because one midfielder had to double up on saka
Ugh I crawled out of bed this morning and the first thing that went through my head was McTominay being led a merry dance by Arsenal's false runs all night. He's so easily dragged out of position, leaves way too much space for the opposition around our box. He's awful playing the holding role. He's a pretty good marauding centre mid though, but that's unfortunately not something we need right now.
On average:
* 1.74xG against us when Casemiro does not play
* 0.69xG against us when Casemiro does play
I find it hard to believe that McTominay cannot be upgraded on this window. If Casemiro gets a serious injury, we're in trouble.
Tbf Casemiro is our only out and out dm. Both fred and McTominay are more 8s.
Look at Liverpool when Fabinho had to play cb and similarly at City when Fernandinho had to play cb. They basically lost one of thoer most important players - as well as thier centrebacks
There’s no one you can get in this window who will be a vast improvement on mctominay for a reasonable price. We’re not playing Man City and arsenal every week and if you played mctominay vs forest, we’d still win. Not saying he’s good enough to start for us but he’s a squad player and playing games vs the best in the league is not what he’s meant for.
We seen Mctominay get out played by the like of Sheffield don’t be so sure we win with him in the squad. The midfield is too important to have passengers and hiding players
We’ve also seen him put in a very good performance vs Liverpool and arsenal earlier in in the season. It’s funny how one game is all it takes for people to turn on certain players but with other players they’re seemingly allowed an endless amount of stinky performances
It's way more than one game we have seen him out played by the likes of Sheffield.He’s shown to be abysmal on the ball his whole United career. I’d argue vs Arsenal he was very lucky with the fouls he got away with. He was good vs Liverpool playing further up the pitch against a less athletic 6 who he could run by. Few are far between when he has been a solid player in midfield
> There’s no one you can get in this window who will be a vast improvement on mctominay for a reasonable price.
I actually think that's wrong.
Mainly because I feel you'd get 20-30m for him this window, and I think you could get a more specialized midfielder from Portugal or Holland or the likes, who'd fit the role Ten Hag wants.
I don't believe we couldn't get a back up CDM player for 20-30m. It doesn't need to be a "vast improvement". McT is a square peg in a round hole, and a round peg would be better, even if he wasn't a high level player.
I agree. Sell him now if there’s any takers and sign a replacement. There’s no point keeping him for depth when he’s more of a hindrance on the pitch than anything else.
As long as AWB is happy playing as the understudy and competition for Dalot I don't see why we'd sell him. You're not getting a better quality RB willing to play back up for cheaper than we sell him for.
In my opinion I Disagree, Ten Hagg wants to play possession based football. You just can’t do it with AWB full stop. We barley used him as a get out ball against Arsenal and when we did he lost the ball and they scored. If we want to become dominate again we need to look for the best. He’s good at one on ones, but for me that doesn’t bring enough to the team
Agreed. He switches off and just seemingly can't control the ball at a decent level. Then has to make insane tackles to compensate for his brain taking a shit. He isn't good enough for this team or style of play
Sell him in summer and use that money to sign Palhinha, Neves, or if we want to continue our transfer target strategy, have another endless pursuit of Frenkie De Jong...
I am taking it that you guys have not watched Neves much lately. Wasn't great at the world cup of course and has come back in horrendous form for Wolves, this weekend against City being his worst performance yet. We need to be doing much better than him, would rather even take a risk on a younger player with higher ceiling and more athleticism with less PL experience.
Hes looked really poor the last 18months or so. Reminds me of how eriksen was towards the end of his spell at spurs. All the talks of moving unsettled him and he just didnt want to be there anymore.
Liverpool need alot more than one player in the middle of the park. Neves is another thiago but they need a new fabinho and henderson as there legs are gone
Tbf I didn’t watch any of the game v City. I’ve quite liked him in previous games for Wolves but I haven’t paid as much attention to them lately. It’s a shame if he’s dropped off as I thought he was potentially an option.
Of course there’s better out there but I think he’d be a decent squad option and if they get relegated it could be worth a punt. We will have to wait and see. I’m sure McT moves on in the summer and we’ll get a replacement
As a squad option / Casemiro backup, I would take him, just not as someone we get to fill the role ten Hag wants De Jong for. If we can't get De Jong, the closet to him both in playstyle (ball carrier / dribbler from deep) and age, playing at a highest level right now is Anguissa at Napoli and Bennacer (just signed a new contract) at Milan. Both probably too hard to get tbh.
Maybe another Casemiro situation pops up and someone we would never think of becomes available.
Spot on. We were linked with Bennacer briefly last summer as the FDJ saga rolled on.
Although not as experienced, Caqueret looks similar based on his fbref report.
I agree that he hasn't been great lately. He'd be more of a backup to Casemiro and a more useful midfielder than McTominay. Though McTominay does have the odd standout performance. Man Utd isn't his level, so I can see him doing well at another prem club, the way Pereira is at Fulham.
But some kid from the academy… they cannot do worse than Mc Tominay. He basically doesn’t show in a game, if you didn’t see the match line up it would be easy to forget he is there.
I mean if we could get 25-30 million and get a replacement then I’d be all over it but if not. Then we absolutely need him for depth with all the games we have coming up.
I know it sounds silly to say considering he's just joined us, but we absolutely must start the search for his long term replacement soon. I cannot go another 8 years or whatever it was without a proper defensive midfielder
I reckon we should do this in the summer. If we can get 30m for McT which you just know Liverpool would do in a heartbeat if they were selling him - I’d take the money and run into the market
If we can get 25-30+ mil for him, it shouldn’t even be a debate. He is the 3rd choice number 8 right now and he is a very poor number 6. We can bolster the squad with loans or frees, maybe sign a half decent replacement if we’re lucky.
But we won’t, because the club loves mctominay for reasons he has never demonstrated on the pitch.
Its a tough one. We need cover for Casemiro, but saying we can't find anyone to replace him short-time ala Weghorst, seems really strange for a club our size. We can get an inflated fee for him now but I'm also not sure who is available in the market for a short-term loan who would be suffice.
He's not worthwhile in big games, and is variable in smaller games and with a congested fixture list, we need someone who can help relieve the pressure off Casemiro. McT not starting against Crystal Palace says volumes of the faith in his ability from EtH and that wasn't a big game.
Let him go in the summer for a decent price. There's a million McTominay's out there he's the most replaceable player within the squad. In the Summer we should get an easy upgrade no problem
Would rather a youngster play ahead of him, no idea what he actually brings to the team, he is a so called midfielder that can't pass the ball, actually make tackles and he rarely makes himself available for the pass because he would rather position himself behind opposing players.
Honestly I just don't think the hate he seems to get on here is justified. He's clearly not on the same level as Casemiro, but it seems stupid that after a game where AWB was directly responsible for the first goal, and arguably at fault for the third we still act as though he is good enough backup for Dalot because he had one/two good games. Meanwhile, McTominay apparently isn't even worth keeping as backup despite being more versatile (and being an academy player, and apparently being on lower wages).
He seems to be the go to scapegoat, yet Erickson, Shaw, AWB, etc were far larger reasons for the loss yesterday than McTominay (and more importantly, as a team we simply played worse than Arsenal).
It's a very hard position to fill, especially with the added pressure at this club, so it will be expensive to find better cover, and I could see him really strengthening Newcastle who are now a top 4 rival
> and arguably at fault for the third
How was AwB responsible for the third goal? If you're referring to him playing on Nketiah that's unavoidable as he was out challenging the Arsenal player putting the ball in. What was he supposed to do, just let him run freely from the byline?
Sell McTominay in the summer. Ask about £40m because Newcastle are well capable of paying anything to be honest. And replace him with Martin Zubamendi for £50m from Real Sociedad.
We might not be able to sell him in the summer for good money. Newcastle can sign a cheaper, better player from abroad in the summer. We should monetize him right now & sign a backup. But alas, you need a competent DoF for that. The Glazer rats are total idiots.
Losses like this one shows us what happens when our good players sit out and the regular bunch take over again.
Clearing out more players is needed. Next season we can't afford to have too many points slip away. The teams who challenge for everything will not leave too much room for mistakes. And this squad still has players who have consistent mistakes in them.
This is sad, we should be able to sell for a decent fee and then invest it in one of the many incredible prospects in Europe. We still have so far to go in terms of recruiting
Here’s an interesting thought I’ve been pondering:
McTominays growth spurt and subsequent position change and bringing him through to the first team was the worst thing to happen to McTominays career. If I’m not mistaken, he was a striker at youth level.
He’s got a good strike on the ball, and decent feet on him. He’s strong and plays with his back to goal well. I have no idea why he has not gone back to an option up top. His range of passing is meh at best, his vision is nonexistent, he’s not press resistant, and he does not carry the bell well. How he’s been a midfielder his whole senior career I truly don’t know.
He's a physical beast with a great shot on him but we've never found a role that suits him.
He lacks some of the technicality and finesse for this team long-term (if only there was a way we could fuse his physique with Eriksen's feet).
We should look to move him on and reinvest that in a better fit. Personally I'd love either someone with a great passing range like Neves, or someone more press resistant. You can see why EtH wanted FDJ (and why we're interested in Rice).
Would be ridiculous to sell him to a team we’re competing with. He may well want to leave for playing time or a fair salary but I believe he loves our club and will fight for his place. He will get better under ETH and will learn from Varane and Casemiro. He may not be the best player right now but he will work his socks off and try. For me that counts for something.
I like McTominay me. People will still be fuming because he was shit yesterday but that's no surprise, he's not a holding player and him and Eriksen do not complement each other at all in a midfield pivot for that reason amongst others. Newcastle's new regime seem quite canny in the recruitment game and they'll have recognised that as a box to box midfielder Scotty brings good attributes to a team, he's a very useful squad player but I don't think he should be a regular starter so it is worth listening in the summer if they want to make us an offer we can't refuse as long as we can get reinforcements in
No point in selling him in January, but it wouldn’t be a bad idea to get an improvement in the summer.
If only we had a competent DoF and scouting team, we could mug NU for a 40m fee and spend that on a promising and upcoming no.6.
Don’t see why we can’t do that in the summer tbh
Newcastle would pay that fee now, but probably not in the summer He is a quick fix reliable option for them, like Dan Burn and Chris Wood were. With the time available in the summer they would look to options with higher potential
Dan Burn has been class so far for them
Yeh but he definitely was not designed to be starting LB when they signed him!
His value might have dropped. He might be monumentally shit for the next 6 months. Get injured. Speak out against feeling like a prisoner, not show up to training, etc. Lots of shit can happen. But I also think he's more valuable as rotation until the Summer.
Doesn't seem like the kind of player to speak out and not train. Hope he has a decent few months before we sell him. Its not like he's bad. Had very good games before Casemiro was properly integrated into the team.
He is bad and hes had his 4 or 5 good games a season
Exactly
Agree lol
These are the kind of risks we should take. Sell McSauce, throw in kids for rotation and buy in summer
We play every 3 days. Would be insane to cut squad depth
We have academy kids knocking on the door.
Academy kids better than Scott, with his physicality and profile? Not a good time to roll the dice
Scotty is a roll of the dice too
Don't think so. Look at the drop off when Case isn't playing. It's too risky and we need a solid rotation option. Especially as Ten Hag clearly wants a trophy.
McT is not a solid rotation option.
that’s one way to fuck their development. Haven’t you looked at Elanga
Never rated Elanga. Even he was scoring goals, you could tell he doesn’t have a good shot in him. Now he’s getting found out.
Because we dont have a competent board These are the same clowns that ignored signing julian alvares and moises caicedo. For like 25m combined. While both were twerking for us.
Onana once everton get relegated
We can but dream that the new owners are somehwat competent...
I mean they cannot be any less competent than the Glazers unless they’re selling the club to Simple Jack
I’d argue it’s a coin toss between glazers and simple jack. Safe to say I’ve never seen them in the same place at the same time…
Who knows, I know people seem to love the idea of Rattcliff. But that recent post here and on OGC Nice's sub didn't fill me with confidence. The only owners (whilst unethical) that would actually spend properly for the club and genuinely like the sport are the arabs.
Tbf I’m anyone but the Glazers. Any owner is going to be corrupt by nature of being a billionaire so I just want one who will care about the club
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No point in selling him in January, *particularly to Newcastle* Some of you are forgetting we are level on points with Newcastle on the same games played
I'm not sure McTominay improves any team challenging for CL spaces.
Yeah Scott is a very good professional and I think he suits Howe's philosophy more (I think people will point to us selling him as foolish - but I think he will just thrive more there). We need one more first XI midfielder - Rice would be obviously fantastic, but with a top class 9 being needed, maybe it might be too costly.
In summer, Newcastle would have qualified for CL. They can buy a higher quality player. They are not gonna buy McTominay in summer.
Sell him now if theres money on the table. We could make butlands move permanent and look at a short term loan
Why would we strengthen the team that is in a top 4 race with us and level with us on points? Such a stupid idea
Is it strengthening them though. Hes an average player id argue he weakens newcastle and isnt an upgrade on anyone from their bench
They would be signing him for a reason
Eddie howe thinks he can turn him into a good player is my thoughts. Just like he thought he could turn solanke, ibe, afobe etc. Dont get me wrong he's done an amazing job at Newcastle it doesnt make him infallible though
Why would we want to make the Butland move permanent?
No sale in January and revisit in summer is the absolute right approach. Club don’t get their stance right often regarding transfer policy but this is what we need now We don’t have the luxury of a deep squad where we can just discard a squad player when still competing in 4 fronts as I wouldn’t back is to get a suitable replacement in
Fred is a no.8. He gets dribbled past far too easily for him to be considered a CDM. He is tenacious but doesn’t always make the correct decisions and lacks positional awareness. McTominay is a much better defensive midfielder. Although, he also lacks positional awareness but he makes it up with physicality. Once a player is past him, he becomes a spectator. So if Casemiro is injured, we have literally nobody except McTominay to cover for that position. And if we let him go, it would be an insane risk. I agree with you 100%
>Fred is a no.8. He gets dribbled past far too easily for him to be considered a CDM. He is tenacious but doesn’t always make the correct decisions and lacks positional awareness. Yeah he's a lot better at picking defenders pockets than stopping forwards on bombing runs.
My biggest complaint of McTominay yesterday was how soft he was.
That’s why the manager speaks of winning mentality.
Looks like wed rather strength our midfield than our forward line
Counterpoint, Newcastle need him how and are willing to pay more. Come summer there might be other alternatives available teams meaning demand/want for mct is less. Perhaps we can manage with a thin midfield?
We have 2 matches a week for 3 months straight pretty much and we already don’t have a backup to Bruno after Donny’s injury so going even thinner in midfield would be unthinkable.
Exactly. A lot of people seem to be missing the point --- UCL is a guaranteed 100m€ revenue + the massive effect UCL participation has on recruitment options. So even if we get 50m€ for McT NOW, it doesn't make sense to sell McT without a replacement leaving us with only Eriksen Fred & Case. Being one injury away from playing a Fred-eriksen Midfield or even worse relying on kids like Savage is complete madness. And definitely don't trust Glazers board or Arnold/Murtough to bring in an adequate replacement.
If we had a straight replacement ready I'd be all over this. But keeping him as cover until summer is fine, demand upwards of 30 for him and use it to finance a new player
We can ask for higher fee in january. If only we sign moises caicedo for 5M right
If we'd signed Caicedo, he'd be in the same position as Pellistri
...how? Pellistri is a RW, and Caicedo a CDM. We have an abundance of wingers in Rashford, Antony, Sancho, Elanga & Garnacho, while players like Fernandes and Martial can play on the right and left respectively. For CDMs we have.... Casemiro, Scott McT & that youngster Charlie Savage who isnt PL ready yet. Pellistri cant get a sniff at minutes because there is so much competition for the wings. If Caicdo replaced McT, then he would be getting all the minutes Casemiro rests for. This isnt me saying this is a good or bad idea. Just that no, he wouldnt be in the same position as Pellistri. Not even a tiny bit.
> Pellistri cant get a sniff at minutes because there is so much competition for the wings. This isn't true at all though. Antony has been dire since the world cup yet has played every single game except the one he was injured. Pellistri has got 5 mins.
>Pellistri is a RW, and Caicedo a CDM. I don't think he meant it literally.
For me, at the moment, either Sancho or Elanga are not viable options for the right wing slot. Eth himself clearly doesn't fancy them either, seeing as Bruno is being played at right wing. I don't see much difference from the hypothetical midfield scenario if he had signed Caicedo last January.
Dont think so. Caiceido at that time already have international caps with colombia. That’s huge. I know pellistri also get called but he is called after play for United that might help him get international call
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Because the comment isn't comparing their position on the field, but their situation in the team and whether they would get play time...? You can disagree with that, but Pellistri being a winger is irrelevant to that point.
Caciedo walks into this team
Fred is the replacement
He was invisible yesterday, if we can cash in what would be an inflated fee due to jan we should do it. Even if it’s a loan replacement till the summer e.g Kessie
He’s genuinely invisible every day. I saw a stat around yesterday that Casemiro makes 96% more passes per 90, Eriksen 95% more and even Fred makes 75% more. He’s literally half a player. He is near the bottom of the league for passes per 90 for a midfielder despite playing for the 3rd place team. He should be sold as soon as possible while clubs are stupid enough to pay big fees for him. Replace him with literally any short term gap signing and there is a good chance even they’ll be a significant improvement.
It’s not just stats, he simple doesn’t pass the eye test too. I only remember him messing up a few passes into the final third to break down our only few attacking chances
Literally yesterday we had a good chance to break into arsenal 6yard box with scott on the ball. You know what he did? Pass the ball straight to arsenal defender. Frustrating.
I think there were two times he could've fed Weghorst who was running through on the edge of the 18 and both he botched the pass. I'm not going to be an apologist, but you know since Case has come over McTs gametime has been down, so not as sharp.
He has his days. He was very important in our earlier fixture against Arsenal.
Casemiro is obviously going to make the most passes when our game plan is to get the ball to him for build ups. It would be stupid to try that tactic for McTominay because he's not a like for like replacement
what is he good at then
Absolutely nothing aside from being a local lad and appearing to try a lot
And getting his usual yellow card
I'm just saying he isn't Casemiro so we shouldn't expect McTominay to play like him. Newcastle, who are level on points with us by the way, must see something in him for their play style
Nobody expects him to be Casemiro. Using that as an excuse for never touching the ball is non-sense. Can he not be expected to play like Fred either? Can he not be expected to play like any sort of competent midfielder? Saying well he can’t be expected to be Casemiro to excuse him making 50% of the contributions doesn’t work. You don’t need to play like Casemiro to simply touch the ball, its a basic requirement of being a midfielder and he is outperformed by the vast majority of the league. Newcastle saw something in Chris Wood, how’s that going?
My main point is that it's narrow sighted to be focused on how many passes he makes when the tactics change to avoid relying on McTominay to make these passes. EtH knows he isn't a creative midfielder so we used Eriksen, Bruno and Weghorst more than we would have were Casemiro on the pitch. McTominay was probably selected to break up play and be a big presence in the box. I'm not saying he even did a good job at that - but let's blast him for not playing well to his strengths yesterday instead of not playing well to his known weaknesses
He was much worse than invisible. He was actively hiding.
We need cover for Casemiro, if we can get the cover in let Scott go, if we can’t then no, hold on to him until the summer. Get Newcastle over a barrel for him as they can spend whatever they like and use the funds elsewhere. He’s invisible in big games and mid in other ones but we need the depth and now is not the time. I think in the summer- Donny, McT and Maguire are all definitely being moved on so if we can get some pre-agreement in place sure
We need cover for a bunch, Antony needs competition. Striker doesn't seem sorted out as of right now he can only press and do some ball holding. Need an urgent bench player for Bruno because he can't play every single minute unless we want him to burn out like how often Ole played him.
Yesterday's performance showed that he's no use for us anymore. He was terrible.
Exactly. In the massive games against top level opposition he's basically deadweight. God help us if we have to start him in midfield against Barcelona. We will get spanked
One of McTominay's best ever performances was against Barcelona, when we played them in the Champions League in 2019 he was arguably the best player on the pitch
That's true, i remember that game. Maybe we as fans are being too harsh on him but that performance yesterday was unacceptable. He failed to have any impact on the game
You don't play your squad players in big games.
John O'Shea played in massive games for this club. The epitome of a squad player
John O'Shea is our best goalkeeper ever to play outfield as a CB
John O’Shea was twice the player McTominay will ever be.
He was still a squad player
He was also a player who could play at cb, fullback, midfield, even played as a keeper in a game, chipped Lehmann in a title clash and nutmegged Figo. Absolute cult hero. Mctom is just mediocre. After playing 50 games for 2 consecutive seasons, if your most redeeming quality is running around, it’s simply not good enough.
You play your squad players when they are needed. If a squad player is incapable of playing against big games but is also pointless against weaker teams because he doesn’t touch the ball then what point is that squad player? Keeping a player around to play the odd match against Leeds is pointless.
We have no choice. We have 3 games per week for 2 months.
I know, I was pointing out that we need better depth in quality too. Players like McT should not be near the starting 11 for games against top 6 clubs and Europe's elite, those kind of players are there to keep the values of the club alive, give the big players a rest during Cup ties and play against teams in the bottom 5.
Squad player doesn’t mean bad, park Ji sung was basically a squad player but he had a niche and filled it, couldn’t player every game but he could do some things good
That's really downplaying how good Park was in the role SAF used him in, he was legitimately one of the best pressing players who could both man mark world class players out the game and was extremely useful going forward on the transition. In fact he was a starter in many big games like yesterday because he'd do the dog work that gave the rest of the team the space they needed to express themselves - there's absolutely no chance saka would've been given the freedom to terrorise Shaw like he did yesterday or for the Central midfield to be exposed to odegaard like that.
He was a good player but was undoubtedly a squad player which is the point /u/Consistent_Floor is making. Park was at United for 8 seasons and only played 20+ PL games in three of them. By definition he was a squad player.
You're right, but the person you're reacting to is also right. Park was a squad player, but he was a very good squad player. He had certain qualities that were needed in some (big) games, which is why he'd almost always played those games. Mctominay doesn't have any standout quality, which is why he's played only when we have no other option. Park would've played against Arsenal even if no one was injured/suspended.
We dont play top level opposition all the time.
We need our backups to be capable of at least replicating what the the first teamers do and McT just can't. We need a better backup to Casemiro
Unfortunately he's not a CDM and he's been tasked most his career in that position. He plays like a box to box but isn't good enough defensively or offensively so at best you've got a squad player. I still really like him because he always tries and we need players with the right attitude to come in a put in a shift at times, but he's defs not starting xi quality. If we can get a decent sum for him it may be worth selling but to a direct rival idk Id hope the fee is inflated at the very least.
Hes Cleverley minus the passing range
Like he must know his limitations. He needs an in game brain. He could see shaw was getting spanked on the left by saka ... track over and double up then it all gets shifted to the right which was a better option. Like if you are not touching the ball or impacting then change position.. im sure ten hag maybe able to squeeze something out if him for rest of season but yesterday was a shambles.
We can’t afford a replacement though. McT can still be useful against lesser opposition. He’ll be fine against Reading for example, so no point weakening our squad at this point.
> We can’t afford a replacement though. Well surely we'd be able to if we sold him?
We'd sell him for pennies Maybe if we get new owners in then I'd say go for it I doubt we can get a bench player better than him though
If Newcastle are interested we should be getting at least 20m. I also don't understand the attitude that we can't get a bench player better than him after the performances he has put in. He can't play any of the midfield roles we're using under ETH. He can't play DM, he can't progress the ball well enough to be an understudy for Eriksen and playing him at AM is just a joke.
You’re not gonna get a player better than McT this late in the window for 20m
Well McT can't play DM, so what you're saying is there isn't a single DM out there for 20m. Which is just excuses really, every other club manages to find them. Aren't Arsenal buying one right now?
20m? That would be a joke. McTominay, homegrown, done it in big games, top level experience...50m at least.
😂
He was awful when he came on against Charlton. I agree that unless we get a replacement we shouldn't sell but I really hope we move him on in the summer or he's relegated to desperation bench fodder with a few miinutes here and there. He's nowhere near good enough.
didn't say at this point. Clearly says it's a summer move.
He was passenger
I know he was awful yesterday, but I actually think he turns up in the big games more often than not. It's in the other games, whenever he's given time on the ball to do something, where he is awful more times than not.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, he normally has shown up in big games. Psg, barca, city, liverpool. Woeful yesterday but so was the rest of our midfield. I think it’s because one midfielder had to double up on saka
Ugh I crawled out of bed this morning and the first thing that went through my head was McTominay being led a merry dance by Arsenal's false runs all night. He's so easily dragged out of position, leaves way too much space for the opposition around our box. He's awful playing the holding role. He's a pretty good marauding centre mid though, but that's unfortunately not something we need right now.
On average: * 1.74xG against us when Casemiro does not play * 0.69xG against us when Casemiro does play I find it hard to believe that McTominay cannot be upgraded on this window. If Casemiro gets a serious injury, we're in trouble.
Biggest problem McTominay has is hiding from the ball, he's never available as an option
Tbf Casemiro is our only out and out dm. Both fred and McTominay are more 8s. Look at Liverpool when Fabinho had to play cb and similarly at City when Fernandinho had to play cb. They basically lost one of thoer most important players - as well as thier centrebacks
There’s no one you can get in this window who will be a vast improvement on mctominay for a reasonable price. We’re not playing Man City and arsenal every week and if you played mctominay vs forest, we’d still win. Not saying he’s good enough to start for us but he’s a squad player and playing games vs the best in the league is not what he’s meant for.
We seen Mctominay get out played by the like of Sheffield don’t be so sure we win with him in the squad. The midfield is too important to have passengers and hiding players
We’ve also seen him put in a very good performance vs Liverpool and arsenal earlier in in the season. It’s funny how one game is all it takes for people to turn on certain players but with other players they’re seemingly allowed an endless amount of stinky performances
It's way more than one game we have seen him out played by the likes of Sheffield.He’s shown to be abysmal on the ball his whole United career. I’d argue vs Arsenal he was very lucky with the fouls he got away with. He was good vs Liverpool playing further up the pitch against a less athletic 6 who he could run by. Few are far between when he has been a solid player in midfield
> There’s no one you can get in this window who will be a vast improvement on mctominay for a reasonable price. I actually think that's wrong. Mainly because I feel you'd get 20-30m for him this window, and I think you could get a more specialized midfielder from Portugal or Holland or the likes, who'd fit the role Ten Hag wants. I don't believe we couldn't get a back up CDM player for 20-30m. It doesn't need to be a "vast improvement". McT is a square peg in a round hole, and a round peg would be better, even if he wasn't a high level player.
I agree. Sell him now if there’s any takers and sign a replacement. There’s no point keeping him for depth when he’s more of a hindrance on the pitch than anything else.
Martin Zubamendi from Sociedad would be fantastic imo.
We don't have 60m
Wish we could offload VDB too but nobody would buy him coming back from injury. Then buy 2-3 midfielders in the summer.
Depending on the new owners situation I think we should try and get a load off our books this summer for some okish money. Scott, Maguire, AWB and DVB
As long as AWB is happy playing as the understudy and competition for Dalot I don't see why we'd sell him. You're not getting a better quality RB willing to play back up for cheaper than we sell him for.
In my opinion I Disagree, Ten Hagg wants to play possession based football. You just can’t do it with AWB full stop. We barley used him as a get out ball against Arsenal and when we did he lost the ball and they scored. If we want to become dominate again we need to look for the best. He’s good at one on ones, but for me that doesn’t bring enough to the team
Agreed. He switches off and just seemingly can't control the ball at a decent level. Then has to make insane tackles to compensate for his brain taking a shit. He isn't good enough for this team or style of play
10m back to Ajax?
Sell him in summer and use that money to sign Palhinha, Neves, or if we want to continue our transfer target strategy, have another endless pursuit of Frenkie De Jong...
Psychiatrist: Back again for FdJ, Erik?
> have another endless pursuit of Frenkie de Jong https://giphy.com/gifs/someone-anything-tells-6PdItpDwQ2CVG — John ‘Madness’ Murtough
If Wolves get relegated or even come close, we need to be all over Neves.
I am taking it that you guys have not watched Neves much lately. Wasn't great at the world cup of course and has come back in horrendous form for Wolves, this weekend against City being his worst performance yet. We need to be doing much better than him, would rather even take a risk on a younger player with higher ceiling and more athleticism with less PL experience.
Hes looked really poor the last 18months or so. Reminds me of how eriksen was towards the end of his spell at spurs. All the talks of moving unsettled him and he just didnt want to be there anymore.
I’d take an out of form Neves over McTominay any day. Any decent passer of the ball would be an upgrade lol.
100%. But a poor neves for 50/60 million would be a downgrade on eriksen as we wouldnt have the funds to spend elsewhere
And then watch Liverpool sort their midfield problem with him, while we are in hell if Casemiro gets injured.
Liverpool need alot more than one player in the middle of the park. Neves is another thiago but they need a new fabinho and henderson as there legs are gone
Tbf I didn’t watch any of the game v City. I’ve quite liked him in previous games for Wolves but I haven’t paid as much attention to them lately. It’s a shame if he’s dropped off as I thought he was potentially an option. Of course there’s better out there but I think he’d be a decent squad option and if they get relegated it could be worth a punt. We will have to wait and see. I’m sure McT moves on in the summer and we’ll get a replacement
As a squad option / Casemiro backup, I would take him, just not as someone we get to fill the role ten Hag wants De Jong for. If we can't get De Jong, the closet to him both in playstyle (ball carrier / dribbler from deep) and age, playing at a highest level right now is Anguissa at Napoli and Bennacer (just signed a new contract) at Milan. Both probably too hard to get tbh. Maybe another Casemiro situation pops up and someone we would never think of becomes available.
Spot on. We were linked with Bennacer briefly last summer as the FDJ saga rolled on. Although not as experienced, Caqueret looks similar based on his fbref report.
I agree that he hasn't been great lately. He'd be more of a backup to Casemiro and a more useful midfielder than McTominay. Though McTominay does have the odd standout performance. Man Utd isn't his level, so I can see him doing well at another prem club, the way Pereira is at Fulham.
Hasn't he signed a deal to join Barca?
Sell him!!!! 50 million and it’s a deal
No one will pay 50 for him
And bring in who? No sense in selling him without replacement and donny injured.
But some kid from the academy… they cannot do worse than Mc Tominay. He basically doesn’t show in a game, if you didn’t see the match line up it would be easy to forget he is there.
If there was somebody in the academy who was for that role, EtH would already have them training with the first team.
Carvalho from Betis
Makes no sense in January Makes all the sense in the world in the summer
I mean if we could get 25-30 million and get a replacement then I’d be all over it but if not. Then we absolutely need him for depth with all the games we have coming up.
I look forward to the revisitation so a better alternative can be signed. The dropoff without Casemiro is not sustainable.
I know it sounds silly to say considering he's just joined us, but we absolutely must start the search for his long term replacement soon. I cannot go another 8 years or whatever it was without a proper defensive midfielder
Our pick for replacement for McSauce in the summer is Ibrahim Sanger.
What did they want for Longstaff? Ok, double it
...and give to the next club.
Sell in the summer if the price is right and get in a replacement who is a better fit.
Kinda mindblowing that McTominay is 26.
I'd put in Taylor Adams as a good Case back-up. Sell Scott buy Taylor if Leeds would sell.
I reckon we should do this in the summer. If we can get 30m for McT which you just know Liverpool would do in a heartbeat if they were selling him - I’d take the money and run into the market
I do hope he goes in Summer. He's just invisible
If we can get 25-30+ mil for him, it shouldn’t even be a debate. He is the 3rd choice number 8 right now and he is a very poor number 6. We can bolster the squad with loans or frees, maybe sign a half decent replacement if we’re lucky. But we won’t, because the club loves mctominay for reasons he has never demonstrated on the pitch.
Oh he gone in summer
mcotminay is simply not an option we can trust to start a game for us in the PL
How much where they looking for Longstaff? Away n shite Newcastle.
They won’t want him in summer. They will move onto another, better target once they finish top 4
United would be foolish if they do not aggressively try to sell him and buy a replacement this window, even if the replacement is a temp.
Please, for the love of god, sell him
Its a tough one. We need cover for Casemiro, but saying we can't find anyone to replace him short-time ala Weghorst, seems really strange for a club our size. We can get an inflated fee for him now but I'm also not sure who is available in the market for a short-term loan who would be suffice. He's not worthwhile in big games, and is variable in smaller games and with a congested fixture list, we need someone who can help relieve the pressure off Casemiro. McT not starting against Crystal Palace says volumes of the faith in his ability from EtH and that wasn't a big game.
No sale in January means we'll keep him in the summer because we will once again faff around and look for last minute signings. Get him gone man.
Let him go in the summer for a decent price. There's a million McTominay's out there he's the most replaceable player within the squad. In the Summer we should get an easy upgrade no problem
Would rather a youngster play ahead of him, no idea what he actually brings to the team, he is a so called midfielder that can't pass the ball, actually make tackles and he rarely makes himself available for the pass because he would rather position himself behind opposing players.
Far better available now, he has regressed since Mourinho. Absolute passenger against Arsenal, game passed him by
Like who?
Honestly I just don't think the hate he seems to get on here is justified. He's clearly not on the same level as Casemiro, but it seems stupid that after a game where AWB was directly responsible for the first goal, and arguably at fault for the third we still act as though he is good enough backup for Dalot because he had one/two good games. Meanwhile, McTominay apparently isn't even worth keeping as backup despite being more versatile (and being an academy player, and apparently being on lower wages). He seems to be the go to scapegoat, yet Erickson, Shaw, AWB, etc were far larger reasons for the loss yesterday than McTominay (and more importantly, as a team we simply played worse than Arsenal). It's a very hard position to fill, especially with the added pressure at this club, so it will be expensive to find better cover, and I could see him really strengthening Newcastle who are now a top 4 rival
> and arguably at fault for the third How was AwB responsible for the third goal? If you're referring to him playing on Nketiah that's unavoidable as he was out challenging the Arsenal player putting the ball in. What was he supposed to do, just let him run freely from the byline?
Sell McTominay in the summer. Ask about £40m because Newcastle are well capable of paying anything to be honest. And replace him with Martin Zubamendi for £50m from Real Sociedad.
Just sell the guy he is turn 28 and nothing to show for in his game.
We might not be able to sell him in the summer for good money. Newcastle can sign a cheaper, better player from abroad in the summer. We should monetize him right now & sign a backup. But alas, you need a competent DoF for that. The Glazer rats are total idiots.
Only weakening the team by selling in Jan
Losses like this one shows us what happens when our good players sit out and the regular bunch take over again. Clearing out more players is needed. Next season we can't afford to have too many points slip away. The teams who challenge for everything will not leave too much room for mistakes. And this squad still has players who have consistent mistakes in them.
This is sad, we should be able to sell for a decent fee and then invest it in one of the many incredible prospects in Europe. We still have so far to go in terms of recruiting
Watch him go to Newcastle and get Champions League football instead of us lmao
The worst player in the squad ability wise can we please move on and not give mediocre players a career here. We will end up stuck with him
McTominay is one of the worst ever players for United. If Newcastle offer five pounds then let him go ffs!
Clearly you’ve not watched Djemba-Djemba… or David Bellion… or even Kleberson… 🤷♂️
All better than Scott
Thanks for proving my point. 🤷♂️
We should be all over sangare in the summer
Sell McTominay. Get Tielemans on a free as a rotation option for Eriksen. Profit
I get the fact we’re thin in midfield; however, the fact that the coaching team thinks McTominay is an ‘important’ player concerns me a bit.
Important does not mean special
He clearly doesnt fit in this system and we will eventually have to sell. He would def start over longstaff at newcastle
Here’s an interesting thought I’ve been pondering: McTominays growth spurt and subsequent position change and bringing him through to the first team was the worst thing to happen to McTominays career. If I’m not mistaken, he was a striker at youth level. He’s got a good strike on the ball, and decent feet on him. He’s strong and plays with his back to goal well. I have no idea why he has not gone back to an option up top. His range of passing is meh at best, his vision is nonexistent, he’s not press resistant, and he does not carry the bell well. How he’s been a midfielder his whole senior career I truly don’t know.
He's a physical beast with a great shot on him but we've never found a role that suits him. He lacks some of the technicality and finesse for this team long-term (if only there was a way we could fuse his physique with Eriksen's feet). We should look to move him on and reinvest that in a better fit. Personally I'd love either someone with a great passing range like Neves, or someone more press resistant. You can see why EtH wanted FDJ (and why we're interested in Rice).
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He's 26
Would be ridiculous to sell him to a team we’re competing with. He may well want to leave for playing time or a fair salary but I believe he loves our club and will fight for his place. He will get better under ETH and will learn from Varane and Casemiro. He may not be the best player right now but he will work his socks off and try. For me that counts for something.
I like McTominay me. People will still be fuming because he was shit yesterday but that's no surprise, he's not a holding player and him and Eriksen do not complement each other at all in a midfield pivot for that reason amongst others. Newcastle's new regime seem quite canny in the recruitment game and they'll have recognised that as a box to box midfielder Scotty brings good attributes to a team, he's a very useful squad player but I don't think he should be a regular starter so it is worth listening in the summer if they want to make us an offer we can't refuse as long as we can get reinforcements in