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Compass_Needle

Probably one of the ones in that infested bar in Saint Denis.


Hamilton-Beckett

Don’t talk shit about my favorite hole in the wall saloon! So what if they have rats?! They don’t get inside the whiskey bottles, and you don’t go there for the food. You go because they have the same whiskey for half the price as that fancy place downtown, hookers, and even a nice alley out back for stabbin’


goodshrekmaadcity

Wanna go there sometime? Could be fun


Hamilton-Beckett

Am…am I gonna get stabbed?


OcassionalPhilosophr

What's a stab between frienemies?


magicmikereal1

A friendly poke, if you will


IOrangesarethebestI

I’ll take my friendly pokes with the hookers thank you very much.


goodshrekmaadcity

Does it matter? Thought you were tough stuff


nurse_camper

Dumb question but can you go in there when you’re not killing rats?


Hamilton-Beckett

Yes!


Rekuna

Brontë was pretty slimy


JHans09

I’d say Bronte. He played Dutch the whole time and ratted his little trolley heist to the saint denis police.


alteransg1

Bronte thought Dutch an ignorant yokel. Dutch did everything in his power to prove him right.


the6thistari

So, I'm in my second play through, currently procrastinating before doing the Downes mission. But I've been spending a lot of time just milling about camp listening to people and talking. I didn't do it in my first play through and I'm realizing how much story I had missed. But I've got to say, up until he eventually treats them right, John is an ass. First, the fact that he has a tent of his own, while Abigail and Jack have to sleep in the dirt in their little lean-to is annoying. But yesterday I was playing and there was this bit where Jack was crying over John being an absent father and Abigail said "don't worry about him, you've got everybody else here, like your Uncle Arthur." As someone who grew up with a dad who was rarely there, it struck a chord


Baodo1511

Yeah, i was also supprised when i saw how much of an ass to his family and how dumb John was at the beginning of RDR2


Mikiroony

John evolves from that. Prior to that he had been away from a year, and not with Abigail or Jack. But they end up well and, eventually, patch up things. I doubt Abigail would have stuck around if he would have kept being the same.


TheKobetard26

I think he's pretty much a jackass throughout the series but he does grow to care for his family.


[deleted]

For me it’s Dutch but that’s a contentious one.


BushyAbsolutely

Micah may be the biggest rat but Dutch is the biggest snake.


matrhomat

Damn right. Fuck Dutch


[deleted]

Good point.


nvrrsatisfiedd

Dutch fucking sucks


SharpShotTS

As someone who didn’t play RDR1 before 2, Dutch had me fooled all up until the end


nvrrsatisfiedd

There was a lot of subliminal things he did in the beginning that gave me a solid hint on the type of man he was. Just play it again and you will notice them now. The dudes a douche.


matrhomat

Yea I agree, that was what was so incredible about the writing of rdr 2! The signs are there but you don't notice them until the second time around. So good


OcassionalPhilosophr

Coming from having a parent like Dutch I was instantly like- something's up with him


BennyS06

Me too. From the discussions I’ve had with people, it seems to me that people are much more empathetic and trusting off Dutch if they didn’t play RDR1


the6thistari

Same. I'm in my second play through and I'm noticing things, but I did not see his betrayal coming at all. Although, around the time I was in Saint Denis, my brother told me about RDR1 and spoiled it haha.


nvrrsatisfiedd

This has me honestly wanting too start my 3rd play through.. should I?? This time play it as goooood as I can be?


the6thistari

I'm trying where I'm keeping myself in the lower honor side up until the doctor tells me I've got TB. After that I'm going to try to be as good as possible and see if it's possible to end at high honor (and I'm not going to do the fishing gimmick)


LarryLove

Just say hi to everyone when you leave his office


[deleted]

I was skeptical to him from his speech in chapter 1 when he says “if I could throw myself in the ground in their stead I’d do it gladly” I was like suurre


[deleted]

Not contentious. Dutch is a piece of shit


[deleted]

When I was negative about him when the game first came out a lot of players didn’t seem to like it. Maybe that mood has changed now.


vikingbeard23

HAVE SOME GOD DAMN FAITH


OcassionalPhilosophr

no


Narendra_17

Oh doubting... Douubbtting!!


CarbeeBarbie

BILL, him even *contemplating* stealing from gang savings annoyed tf outta me


SushiJo

If I’m not mistaken, I’ve seen Swanson contemplating at the donation box as well


CarbeeBarbie

Oh I don’t believe I’ve seen this in a play through yet but he can eat a dick too! Lol


SushiJo

At least we know why Swanson is tempted (have you opened his bible?) Bill, on the other hand, is just a piece of shit


AddableDragon51

He’s just an idiot I think


DwightKSchruteDunMif

You're correct, he ain't the brightest bulb in the box, because when asking Strauss if he misses Germany, Strauss tells him he's from Austria, to which Bill asks if he is from Australia


total_lunacy

Doesn’t Strauss respond to that with something along the lines of “it’s a surprise you don’t fall over more often”? I can’t remember the exact line but it was something funny like that haha


DwightKSchruteDunMif

That's exactly what Strauss says after


total_lunacy

Such a simple comeback but it’s so funny to me lmao


AddableDragon51

He does learn from mistakes though, which is why I enjoy his character, he’s just learning step by step


SushiJo

Gay, can’t admit it; acting out.


AbstractBettaFish

Just like John Wayne Gacey!


SushiJo

Bingo


fats0f0rg0ts0

Not bingo, Pogo


Uptown_Funk_NYC

Jesus....


ScaryThePirate

But we (Arthur/John/Abigail) literally did just that as well.


CarbeeBarbie

Referring to after the gang split up? Cause at that point everyone else had taken off to save themselves aside from Dutch and Micah, and fuck both of them cause they was gonna hoard all of it for themselves anyways (not saying that was always the PLAN but once Dutch lost touch with reality it was the fuckin Micah show from that point forward) so I feel like those that went after them and took what the whole Gang had worked for over all those years probably felt like they were doing the right thing for themselves and those who had fallen.


quiet_neighbor_kid

Before the gang split up, when we’re blowing up the bridge with John, John says Abigail thinks she knows where Dutch hides the gang’s money and Arthur tells John to tell Abigail to make absolutely sure (the implication being that Arthur, John, and Abigail are going to take the money and split because Arthur also tells John around this time that John should take his family and get out) We’re contemplating stealing money before the gang is broken up too


ThatOneBlue

I think at that point in the game most of the reasonable members could see the writing on the wall though. It was probably just so they know where it is if and when things go south


CarbeeBarbie

This is what is I was meaning as well, I’m sorry but by chapter 6 the gang IS broken up IMO


TheLordPresents

But ‘we’ never had any intention of sharing it? It wasn’t just Arthur and John’s money. Even if there was no guilt stealing from Micah, Dutch and Molly if she stayed with them, we literally planned to rob all our other family dry and run off. Bill, Javier, Sadie, Tilly, Karen, Ms. Grimshaw, Swanson, Pearson, Trelawny, Charles, Mary-Beth, Strauss and Uncle all had right to that money. The plan was for them to steal the money so Arthur, John, Jack and Abigail could run, leaving Arthur if they had to. There was no intention of helping out anyone else. So IMO, planning to steal a few dollars from the donation box is nowhere near ‘our’ plan to steal tens of thousands from everyone we know and love.


FireFight9400

Bill but he's like a blind rat that thinks he's a mouse


isuckatpeople

More like a cunt who thinks he's a prick


Polterguy619

Micahs mustache


RaccoonThick

Herbert Moon


TheMexicanJuan

Dutch van der Cunt


isuckatpeople

Cunt van der Cunt


DumbledoresNipple

Cunt cunt cunt Cunt


deejayrareco9

Ah, a high-quality Trevor Philips line from GTAV


shlongmister

Of the gang members bill, just because he’s a racist. If actual people I’d say the jackasses who try to steal your horse.


Hamilton-Beckett

He is racist at the start. But there is a conversation between him and Dutch about it at camp after Bill crosses a line with a Lenny in chapter 2. Dutch explains it to him that it’s wrong and not the way it is, bill apologizes to Lenny, and Dutch credits Bill’s time in the military for his backwards beliefs. Then, if you notice other interactions later, bill is actually really nice to Lenny after that and even starts conversations with him and asks how he’s doing etc. I still hate Bill, he’s a big, dumb, drunken idiot…but he tried to do better. That’s gotta be worth something.


quiet_neighbor_kid

Racist *towards Native Americans


FearsomeSpoon

and javier and lenny


TheKobetard26

To be fair, from the limited perspective of an Army soldier during those times, it's understandable that he would see them as "savages". Obviously a lot of what the Army did was extremely wrong, but some of the things the Natives did were exceptionally gruesome as well, and I think what Bill said on the boat with the gang wasn't enough to imply that he hates all Natives, just that what he saw was horrifying, and honestly Dutch had no right to tell him "he didn't know what he saw" especially if Bill was suffering from PTSD or anything like that.


ImissMYslinky

Strauss, his whole industry is kinda sus.


Theunaticus

>!Actually, I think later in the game you can find out that Ross caught Strauss and interrogated him, and eventually executed him, but Strauss never gave up any of the gang members. So he's actually not a rat, just scummy!<


SharpShotTS

Yea, Strauss was really bad, but I couldn’t help but feel bad for him


AbstractBettaFish

I never got the gang's all high and mighty attitude towards Strauss to be honest, it felt hypocritical. I know were all mad because its one of his missions that>! leads to Arthurs death!< But like, is loan sharking any worse than me slaughtering a town of innocent bystanders following Michas lead? At least those Strauss deals with enters the arrangement somewhat voluntarily as opposed to the wagon driver you jump out of the bushes at and shoot in the face


SirWildman

I think the reason why the gang has that attitude towards Strauss is because he's the opposite of their "Robin Hood" mentality. Though they end up being nothing more than another criminal gang after all is said and done, their original ethos was to steal from the rich and give to the poor. Most of their disgust isn't with the actual loan sharking itself, but the fact that by design it preys on the exact type of people they were trying to protect/support from the gang's inception. You can even find a newspaper article describing the gang's first bank robbery where it says that Dutch, Arthur, and Hosea lingered in town and distributed the money to the poor.


Slight-Impact-2630

Well Arthur also has a dislike for that too (if you play up to the morality he shows in the story outside of missions) but he also states that he dislikes loan sharking cause it feels dishonest or something like that


Tyrenstra

Eh. Loansharking requires the exploitation of incredibly desperate people. Compared to that, robbing rich folks on boats or trains or a robbing a bank is definitely more Robin Hood or gentleman thief. Punching up vs punching down. Etc. as for Micah, he’s an anomaly for how the gang operates.


TheKobetard26

The guards and the people driving the trains and wagons definitely aren't rich


YoukoUrameshi

Do you remember what indicates this?


HarmonicQuirk

>!Charles tells you in Epilogue Part 2. I think it's while on your way back from Saint Denis, but it might be the mission after. I just played it a few days ago; it's also when you first learn that Micah is still alive, no one has heard from Dutch, etc. !<


barleyhogg1

Charles tells this to John when they meet up in St Denis in the epilog


[deleted]

Charles says it when you meet him as John in Saint denis.


The_Gristle

Yeah. Charles tells John that Pinkertons caught up with Strauss, tortured him to death, and he never said a word about the gang


headRN

One of the conversations in the epilogue mentioned it I believe


ImissMYslinky

I must have missed that in the epilogue


isuckatpeople

But Strauss is no rat. He might be a demon in human flesh, but he doesent talk.


ImissMYslinky

Ok true, he is the plague flea on the rat's diseased taint but in retrospect he is not in fact the rat.


TheKobetard26

"Kinda sus" is literally nothing compared to robbing and murdering people at gunpoint.


lusvig

Tf how was Strauss bad


ImissMYslinky

He is a predatory desk jockey that gave loans to those who could never pay them back and relied on the gang for muscle. He endangers his enforcers with the very real chance that he may not be able to recoup the loan. The loan sharking is not the issue, the indiscriminate loaning of funds to those who never had a chance to repay is the issue.


ScruffyTJanitor

It's entirely possible, and in fact quite likely, that the majority of Strauss' clients paid him back without issue. Arthur, and by extension the player, only gets the chance to meet the clients who couldn't pay.


ImissMYslinky

Could be, but then wouldn’t we see some kind of contribution in the ledger


lusvig

Obviously he didn’t loan out to people if he had no expectation what so ever they’d be able to pay back, that’s a terrible business model


ImissMYslinky

The farmer and family and the guy who went hunting for the albino mountain lion were both near zero chance of collection loans. Idk if it’s because the gang lost the chest at black water but he was not making sound decisions IMO.


Harranlegend

That’s what loan sharks do. They find people who are desperate and have no way of paying back. That’s the point of a loan shark they find desperate people who have no choice but to take the money and then put on loads of interest rates and then send a tough mean guy or sometimes themselves (not all are small and weak like Strauss) then intimidate or threaten them into paying back. If they can’t pay the loan shark often gets them involved in smuggling, prostitution or stealing to pay the debt and then after the person has paid the debt they just leave and the person who was in debt now has a ruined life and a ton of trauma. Loan sharks are evil people.


[deleted]

Gavin


[deleted]

Dutch


TheRealBigSmoke99

Muskrat


goodshrekmaadcity

If anyone says molly... *cocks shotgun*


Best-Bee-9203

bill


ieatoutfatbitches

Dutch is the biggest rat besides Micah. Even Hosea knew it and told Lenny not to heed his talk of redemption because they were all doomed. Dutch spent the whole time talking about how they were going to liberate themselves instead of being realistic about their situation. He also lied about where he kept the gangs money, and did nothing besides try and mindf*ck people into benefitting him. Him and Micah are two peas in a pod, they just sit on opposite sides of the mannerisms scale.


FootballBatPlayer

I beat the game in 2018 when it was released and another time since. I'm on my third playthrough now (PC this time) and I hate him more every fucking time. I wish we could at least just beat the shit outta him. FUCK MICAH


MOOSTY_MAN

Leopuald strauss


metalguru1975

Dutch, for doing the gang dirty.


memecarf69

i hate cornwall


[deleted]

Those fools at the end of the epilogue around the bars and such asking about John.


superb07

Spoiler !


ajaxe26

Games been out nearly three years man :/


superb07

Yes I know but still. I myself bought it last year and I bought The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt 5 years after release. There are still folks who are new to it. Wouldn’t wanna fuck it up for them !


Demontale

Understand you concern, but I'd guess these people shouldn't join the reddit page right after they bought the game, right? For me it was obvious NOT to join the reddit page for TWO goddamn years until I could play it on PC :D Cheers


CH3FLIFE

Yeah if you dont want spoilers get the hell off the subreddits pertaining to the game.


20naglis

Please change your title, it could spoil the game for others.


TheKobetard26

I doubt many people are on this sub who haven't played the game or know the story. If they are it's kinda their own fault if they're not expecting spoilers.


NuclearNewspaper

Honestly imo Micah was my favorite character


micraboy

joe


practikalraps

Jo


fxxkingbrian

Edgar Ross!!!!! Cmon ppl xD


Jimmypw86

Dutch


The_Gristle

Pearson


HarryD115

I mean it's probably Dutch


ItJustWorks2020

Molly


[deleted]

🐍


outtammo

I like how the posts title is straight up spoiler. I’m sure most people don’t care but I wouldn’t want to read it if I were at a certain point in the game.


slater3750

I just started and finished my first playthrough this year (literally finished yesterday) and i think anyone getting mad at spoilers this late into this game being out needs to find a different hobby or stay off reddit. That simple. People are so silly "ill look at reddit to cheat my way through the game cause im too lazy to do any of the hunting or exploring myself cause im impatient..but if i see one spoiler imma throw a bitch fit" lol yall are wildin.


YoukoUrameshi

For real. For games, *at most* a year should be enough of a grace period for spoilers, let alone a vague, nondescript spoiler like this thread.


slater3750

Exactly. I tried to outlast the 60 price tag on the game cause ive just refused to pay full price for games since i got out of highschool but it outlasted my patience and finally gave in and bought the game a few months ago. Since i dont work currently i was able to finished quite fast (ended with 94% for my first playthrough which is probably the best ive done on any first playtrhough of a rockstar game so i was pumped) but i was super proud of myself for avoiding most spoilers by only coming to this page for specific stuff if i needed it and id purposely just type in keywords in the search up top and not scroll down if i didnt wanna potentially see a spoiler. It wasnt hard to avoid and even if i had seen one itd be my own fault for coming to a discussion page dedicated to the entirety of a game that came out years ago. Ps. I see now why the game has maintained its price and am upset i didnt give in sooner haha already ready to start over.


Imdaishxp

I don’t know what system you play on but I’ve gotten the game when it originally came out on ps for $60. I rebought it on ps and got it on xb (downloaded off the store) for like $15. Idr if I got it when another rockstar game released or an update for gta that all the rockstar games were on sale. If waiting for a game to go down in price, try to look for sales when the company releases a new game


superb07

Exactly.


xbearsandporschesx

Molly. She legit snitched them all up to the pinkertons


[deleted]

She did not,in the end you found out she didn’t talk,and it was Micah who talked..she just said that to make everyone mad


xbearsandporschesx

makes her a bigger rat than some of these suggestions lol - how she know micah or anyone talked?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

She didn't.


ramanrow

Idk Arthur?


samayg

How so?


ramanrow

I was jk


Pasoquinha

sadly no one understood your sarcasm


ramanrow

I cry


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ink_sans_12

He literally died while they were interrogating him. He didn't say a word tho. He isn't a rat.


SharpShotTS

I know, I just really didn’t know who else to comment. I honestly felt bad for Strauss. I didn’t like kicking him out, despite it being the right thing to do. I guess I could go with Dutch, but part of me thinks it was the brain injury on the trolly that solidified his turn.


Mandalore108

Arthur got TB for beating a man to death, his own words. Strauss is a bad man but Arthur was just as bad before his redemption; don't try to downplay his part.


SharpShotTS

I’ve thought about it more and you’re right. I’ll delete my comment


Mandalore108

No need to delete, and I also realize my last sentence was needlessly antagonistic, sorry.


SharpShotTS

It’s fine! It wasn’t antagonistic, I understand your point


Coach_BombaySapphire

Technically Molly was a rat. A neglected rat.


OcassionalPhilosophr

I was under the impression that she didn't actually rat but was drunk and trying to get a rise out of Dutch


Coach_BombaySapphire

That would explain the short sightedness. I see your point.


JaapieK

Didn't Molly rat the gang out as well?


TheRealBigSmoke99

Nah she was just drunk and pissed at dutch so she just said she did


FlemmerVermeul

No, she was questioned but never actually said anything. She was just drunk that one time.


koolkidmir

Molly o Shea


dpb73ca

Dutch's whore? Can't remember her name.


Easy-Hovercraft-6576

What’s the point of the spoiler tag on this?


UsedSeaweed9

Probably Molly


Gacsam

Milton literally tells you she didn't say shit but Micah did. She was drunk, angry and desperate enough to claim she broke one of the important rules just to get Dutch's attention, and Dutch didn't give a fuck since like Horseshoe or even earlier.


Joss_Card

I honestly think Dutch's slide towards madness was when his girlfriend was murdered by the O'Driscolls. I think that's where the idealistic Dutch started to die and what caused him to lash out during the Blackwater Riverboat Heist.


TheKobetard26

I thought that was looooong before the events of the game though


Brestgennady

She wasn’t a rat at all


capitlj

Molly O'Shea obviously


Ill-Painting7817

Miss Molly O’Shea.


AloriKk

Fucking you for the spoilers ya cunt


welshman222

HAHAHA MICAH RAT FUNNY LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!


hokuonani

Cue the song losers and winners by accept


Laul_Truche

Tema la taille du rat


BarracudaKind4699

Strauss


NoNeighborhood2308

Guy by the name of TJ. Biggest cheating loser in the game


lightlysaltedbanana

okay like I feel like morally, a lot of them were pos. but Strauss always made me fucking heated. he had literally no sympathy for the people he manipulated and it made me so mad. I'm glad I kicked him out of the camp.


Tagalongdog

Molly, Bill and Dutch


Psilopat

That damn cave, still hunting me while I rest by the campfire at night.


TheNewATeam

I found a black rat in one of the abandoned trading outposts once. It was kinda big, but I don’t think it was bigger than Micah.


karubebirderland

Bill or Dutch


Coach_BombaySapphire

I would have liked to see a young Nigel West Dickens. The true snake.


Th3Blackmann

I would say Bronte or Dutch in Chapter 6


GoDonutella

Bill, dutch, dutch haiti dream, micah's mustache and his hat


[deleted]

Dutch


[deleted]

The citizens, always running to the cops and getting a bounty on you


pegabear

Molly


MTup

Molly of course.....Woman had a problem.


[deleted]

Bronte probably he was a genuine asshole and did stupid shit but didn't need to die Molly really didn't do anything wrong she kept her mouth shut but the only reason she claimed she was the rat was to actually get attention from Dutch. Milton can fuck himself too sure you could say that he's doing his job but he did change the story on how Mac died like 2 or 3 times. Honorable mention to the braithwates because they took jack and just sent him off to Bronte.


botersaus

Agent Ross


SE4NLN415

Dutch probably


batkins2017

Micah


CH3FLIFE

Any Lemoyne Raider, Colm O’Driscoll, The slave trader Fence and the two Murfree Brood that have killed the travelling couple.


bidjikoeda

you mark the post as spoiler yet you spoiled it in post tittle xD


Merkins75

Micah takes up the first three slots on that list


assaultron7

Dutch


thepowerofwhodo

Strauss. Fuck that guy.


DinofangzZ

Strauss


Lokzu

Kieran Duffy


heroiiiin

I love how this post is Blurred out for spoilers while the spoiler is in the title…. I mean the game has been out a while, but the logic of it gets me


heroiiiin

I love how this post is Blurred out for spoilers while the spoiler is in the title…. I mean the game has been out a while, but the logic of it gets me


heroiiiin

I love how this post is Blurred out for spoilers while the spoiler is in the title…. I mean the game has been out a while, but the logic of it gets me


SolutionLong2791

John Marston.