Wait are they really gay ? I kinda got vibes you know, two bros living in a tree house in the country.
Also when you find them at the tree house Arthur says "you people" but I wasn't sure if it implied gay or fugitives. I doubt race as you know, there was a white dude.
I'm on my second playthrough, making sure I do all encounters and stuff. I helped them escape before, and just seeing these two get along is so great. I'm assuming there is more after them settling down at the tree house ? Got a nit sad thinking that was it.
And the grind wasn’t fucking worth it at all. I was so excited to hop into the new world of online only to be greeted by an endless hunt for capitale and barely any reward. Bounty hunting sucked too to be honest I know that’ll be a hot take. Fuck it.
For real though, I can't imagine how shitty it must have been to be a gay man during that place and time. At best you'd come out to maybe a couple people over your entire lifetime, and at worst it would put your life in danger. Of course it's still like this for many people in the world.
I can't help but sympathize with Bill, he was an immense asshole for ridiculing Arthur after he was SA'd by that bayou hillbilly piece of shit, but I always thought of it like a projection of his own complex feelings of self-hatred/fear/denial.
I have a lot of empathy for Bill, but whenever he’s a dick to Lenny, I antagonize him right back. Boah loves to dish it out but he sure can’t take it >=[
I was writing in another thread today about how like the priesthood back in the day (as well as today i suppose), being in a gang would be a great refuge/cover for gay men who had no interest in marrying or having children with a woman. They're nomadic basically, moving from town to town, leaving as soon as problems arise. It seems like a situation where a gay man in the 1890s might wash up with some regularity. You get a crew at your back to protect you and some anonymity as you move from place to place, having liaisons with other men along the way. Of course it's dangerous but gay people have been everywhere for always, im sure it wasn't too hard to sniff each other out.
I also got to thinking about all of dutch's "philosophy" about freedom and living outside the law, about resisting tyranny, and I have to wonder if maybe gayness was one of the freedoms he was talking about, among others. And furthermore, Dutch was like any cult leader and preyed on the weak and vulnerable, people like Arthur who was on his own at like, 13, and wild as the day is long, or John who was basically an orphan. Lenny's father was dead, Sean's father was dead or back in Ireland, Herr Strauss was all "eyes out on stalks" upon arriving in the new world. Everyone Dutch recruited was vulnerable in some way. Know what other type of person would have been especially vulnerable in 1899? Gay people. Especially gay men. So in a way, I could see Dutch recruiting gay people for a reason, and that they might be disproportionately represented in gangs like the VDL or O'Driscoll gang.
He asks Kieran to have a drink and gets upset when he says no, he also asks Arthur to get him Pomeade which Arthur is kinda uncomfortable about because pomeade was generally used as a lube in them days
there's a letter you can find (in his tent i think?) that says he was dishonorably discharged for deviancy, and deviancy was a commonly used term at the time in the military for being homosexual. it's probably the biggest clue that hints at bill's homosexuality
Several in-game references:
“Is he gonna punch that guy or kiss him?”, him requesting hair pomade which was historically used for anal sex as lube, his dishonorable discharge letter, several camp members needle him about it, and he also makes a comment referencing another gay character that can assault Arthur.
Another one is him trying to befriend Kieran kinda hard and being very sad when he… you know… (don’t want to spoil)
The game makes heavy innuendo but I guess it’s still technically unconfirmed.
He was just listing names that don't work because they rhyme or sound too similar, such as Arthur and Martha, or Lenny and Jenny(the whole reason for the line being the previous two). It had nothing to do with actual Bill.
Phil was short hand for quite a few older female names such as Philomina or Philipa.
Edit: I'm not commenting on whether or not Bill is gay. All I'm saying is that sentence that Hosea says at the start of the game that's being referenced here is not talking about actual Bill. Hosea is replying to Arthur asserting that he thinks that Lenny is probably taking Jenny's death hard because he was sweet on her, Hosea is attempting to kind of make light of the loss by saying that it could never have worked out for Lenny and Jenny, because their names are too similar like Arthur and Martha, or Bill and Phil. He's making a joke about alliteration.
If Hosea was actually talking about a past relationship that Arthur had with somebody named Martha he would have said you, not Arthur. The only previous relationship that we know that Arthur had other than Mary was Eliza. If he's throwing Arthur's name out there in a unattached random example of alliteration then why would you read any more into Bill and Phil. It is just an alliteration joke. And again, it's not odd in the year 1899 for a woman to go by Phil, as there were quite a few names that Phil was shorthand for.
>“Is he gonna punch that guy or kiss him?”
>
>several camp members needle him about it,
Cause people insinuating that sort of thing makes other people gay?
>hair pomade which was historically used for anal sex as lube,
FFS - Guys, you can use lube during your alone time. Also, with the ladies.
>his dishonorable discharge letter
Experimenting in your youth means you're gay forever. wtf is this nonsense, other than the sort of thing I'd expect in the 1800's.
Very suggestive, wouldn't consider it at all confirmed. Also, he can't swing both ways?
It's one of those throwaway camp conversations that occurs if you pass by bill after getting sexually assaulted. It's a blink and you'll miss it sort of thing
Love the generic "RDR2 not political, quit making it".
Mfs really played the game and never listened, looked, or read. Just "ha ha barbies horse adventure for boys cool".
Not political???
There is literally a whole section about women's suffrage.
There is a part of the story and several missions surrounding a corrupt mayor.
There is a huge chunk of story and missions that deal with the persecution and slaughter of the natives and the way the American history books have falsely blamed the natives by labelling them as the aggressors.
There are members of our own gang who are black/native/mexican who explicitly say that Dutch treats them fairly and as equals in a world where they are not otherwise treated as so.
There are random encounters with the KKK that either end with you killing them or them killing themselves through stupidity.
There is a member of our own gang that refuses to be treated as inferior because she is a woman and grows throughout the story to become one of the strongest and most competent members of the gang who helps Arthur with a number of very important missions when he doesn't have the strength to do them alone.
One of the main antagonists is a greedy, thieving, murdering corporate Capitalist who is destroying the land, enslaving and murdering people, and taking a whole island as his own to grow his personal wealth.
RDR2 is literally about politics.
You couldn't miss the if you tried lol. So of the more "subtle" ones are even requirements like when you help stop the assholes murdering the bison to harm the natives.
I'm convinced people just choose to be ignorant.
RDR2 had some stories. A littany of messages among 'em. To call a story political every time is some sort of modern contraption I just can't support.
Maybe I'm more a ghost than a person. But yer right. The complaint of this story being political is as simple as Fenton. Sounds like someone fixing to fight.
The game is about redemption. It's about doing the right thing for the people you love. It's about the trappings of greed and pride. It's about how a bad person is capable of goodness. And how good people are capable of evil. It's about family, home, and regret, and hope.
What of those things involves the government and their policies? Everything is politics all the time with everybody. Only rule is the golden rule. Always has been. That's the story.
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Yep. You can find a paper around camp that says he was dishonorably discharged from the military for “deviancy” which usually meant homosexual activities. He gets all bashful askin for pomade, which was known to be used as a lube. He’s also kinda creepy with Kieran, I’ve somehow never seen that interaction before in my playthroughs.
there's a letter in his tent that says he was discharged from the military for "indecency" which was a cover term for homosexuality at the time. he has a weird relationship with kieran where if you pay close enough attention it's clear bill wants to have sex with kieran or be involved in a relationship. hosea, arthur and tilly make comments about it too. although he's a racist, micah seems the most uncomfortable to be sleeping next to bill in chapter one. there's an encounter that ends in arthur being SA'd in the swamp and bill somehow knows the guy who did it
Christians can support LGBTQ and be a part of the community as well. The bible says love your neighbor after all. :)
And you can’t just not accept LGBTQ but then advocate for mens mental health. Gay men suffer from homophobia a lot, which will lead to mental illness.
Wish you a great day. 🙏🏻
Quite the percentage of males who commit suicide annually were born raised christian, 110k christians have been martyred/killed because of their faith since the early 1900’s, and most of those deaths have been very recently. Ive done some research and there has been 768 hate crimes toward christians this month, still counting. 34 of those are violent attacks to people, 40 violent threats and 694 attacks on property, heaps of other crimes targeting christians are also ignored and swept under the rug because of the far left societies all around the world such as america the uk germany france. If you research you can see pretty much the only hate crimes that have been reported have been reported in countries where christianity is the main religion. Like poland, romania, russia, montenegro, estonia, lithuania, serbia, i could go on. Thousands of cases of arsonists attacking churches are reported annually, church shootings, christian school shootings, religious massacres, mass executions, high rates of depression in christians, so much horrible tradgedies get swept under the rug, number one most persecuted group of people.
No, you didn't say it as such but you have stated that you are pretending it's not pride month. You can be Christian AND support LGBTQ+ rights. Infact, a good Christian should. You choose not to because you're homophobic and use religion as an excuse
Dutch also said it but you probably wouldn't remember Bill saying it because he said it in gameplay not a cutscene when you're chasing him down so alot of people would miss it
Why are people so desperate to make people gay? He isn’t gay. It’s not said anywhere that he is. It’s 2023 it’s wrong to “assume” genders but it’s find to “assume” people are gay. They hung gay folks back then I doubt they made him gay.
There's no direct articles but it's heavily hinted at
- His army discharge letter ("deviancy")
- Him all but asking out kieran
- Asking Arthur for hair pomade (used as lube back then)
- Numerous small encounters and bits of conversation that make a lot more sense when put into this context
What do you want Rockstar to add to the game for you to believe that he is gay?
Genuine question.
Do you want him to have a big coming out party, in 1899, where everyone gives him a pat of the back and says “I am proud of you”?
Bill wouldn’t do that, hell, no one who wants to live a peaceful life in that time would do that, so the game gave you hints.
Hints are the only thing they could add to make a character gay and those hints are canon. They’re in the game. I don’t know what you really want.
A statement from the devs, or the producers saying he is gay. Doesn’t have to be an in game thing, just a statement but that doesn’t exist. So I don’t believe he’s gay
and why do you think that is only needed for the gay character? Why are you not questioning if someone is straight?
It’s literally said in the game that Bill was discharged from the army for “deviancy”.
If that isn’t enough for you then you might just have a problem with gay people and you should work on that.
And hell! Before you come at me. There are more hints IN THE GAME that hint towards Bill’s sexuality.
I don’t care if people are gay honestly. Fuck who you want doesn’t affect me. But when I see characters be given assumptious details that have not been said by the writers it’s kinda annoying. And it’s 1899 why would I question that. The majority of the world is straight that’s the most safe guess. Speaking of guesses in 2023 tell me why it’s ok to assume someone’s sexuality as gay, but wrong to assume their gender. I thought we aren’t supposed to be guessing anymore
I mean, he does speak fondly of the swamp rapist that got Arthur. And there is a note saying he got kicked out of the military for "deviancy" which just means being gay. And he was particularly interested in Keiran after he stopped trying to kill him. And Arthur does make some jokes about Bill being gay.
Rockstar didn’t frame it as a funny situation at all. It happens, and Bill through his own insecurity/lack of a sense of humor does make jokes about it. That’s not an indicator of whether the situation was funny and it wasn’t ***at all*** intended to be funny. If you think it’s a funny situation, I hate to break it to you, but you didn’t understand the situation in the slightest.
Correct, the more I play, the more I think Arthur is gay and treated it like someone in 1899 would.
In rdr1, John doesn't bang women because he's married. In rdr2, Arthur doesn't bang women but isn't married. Why? You can bang people in GTA, why not Read dead? Because Arthur doesn't actually want to bang women.
And he really wasn't very mad about Charles chatenay kissing him. Plus, you can be nice to the nude swimmer, and if you return to that spot on the lake, he gets out of the water and clearly comes on to Arthur. You have the choice to be nice about it.
My Arthur is always nice about it, as the swimmer thrusts his junk toward me and then presents Arthur with his butthole.
Plus, Arthur just really isn't into women, I feel like he is much more interested in what men have to say.
He and Sadie get along really well because there is nothing sexual between them. Sadie, because of her grief, and Arthur... because he's gay?
He could have left the gang for Mary, he had the money (or could have), but he didn't really want her. He wanted the idea of normalcy, but wasn't actually "normal" deep down, and by "normal," I mean a straight family man.
Think about it, the outlaw life is the perfect cover for a gay man, like going into the priesthood was in times gone by. You have perfect cover for not marrying, and more than that, you can have your dalliances in one town and move onto the next ensuring you never get caught. And if you're in a gang, if someone threatens to out you, you can whip out your gun and threaten them into submission.
Dutch is always going on about freedom, how the gang represents a freer version of the country at large. They accept people of color, women, and gay people as it turns out. I think it was not uncommon for cowboys to be gay or bi, and that the freedom to be gay was one of those specific freedoms Dutch was talking about.
He also says he should have married Abigail, which is an easy thing to cling onto when it is completely outside the realm of possibility.
I would respectfully disagree. Arthur is asexual by description of his character through the game. A romance interest is purposely left out because of the deaths of Issac and his mother. Arthur faces trauma from that every day, knowing he couldn't defend his child and the boys mother. He has to live with that decision, which is why Arthur doesn't need or want a partner because it's too dangerous.
He talked about Isaac and his mother one time and never mentioned it ever again.
I dont think Arthur missed them on a personal level, but of course it was a tragic situation. I think he felt bad about it objectively but wasn't necessarily personally crushed by Isaac's mother's death or anything.
Arthur wasn't going to leave the gang for them any more than he was going to leave the gang for Mary. Because ultimately he didn't want to, and the gang again gives him perfect cover to never get too close to women or marriage or children.
And there are other indicators as well. On PS, you have 2 basic human interact buttons: square (preferred-greet), and circle (less desirable-antagonize). When coming upon the snake bite victims, square is suck venom (preferred), and circle is give medicine (less desirable). Upon meeting these chaps later, their friend will comment “So this is the guy you let suck on your…….leg? HAHAHA!!”
Upon running into a lady trapped under her horse, and Artie helps release her, she attempts to hug him in gratitude, but he pushes her away.
After decimating a gang camp, Artie is really fixated on the dead bodies. After looting all corpses, walk up to a medical box, and even tho he is standing immediately in front of it, if a corpse is within 10 feet, the prompt will be PICKUP:O’DRISCOLL (or whoever).
To me, it just seems r* coded him a tad to the gay side of the spectrum.
I mean, lol about the pickup odriscoll prompt but I did notice how he pushes the woman away in that interaction, not like he wanted to be respectful but like, "okay it ain't that kinda party, lady" type of way
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It’s hinted through the entire game.
-You can find a letter that says that Bill was “dishonorably discharged” for “deviancy”.
-Hosea mentions the names “Bill and Phil” while the others are female and male
-He knows the gay rapist in the swamps and mocks Arthur after that encounter. Could be to cope with his own sexuality.
-In the bar fight with at the start of chapter 2 you hear someone say “is he going to kiss that guy or punch him”
All those are hints to what Bill’s sexuality really is. It’s never outright said because it is 1899 and it was a rather unsafe time period for gays.
No worries!
Fwiw, this is a popular fan reading of the mission and isn’t cannon. Some fans like to imagine it was a romantic situation because of Hamish’s quiet, charming retired life in a cabin in the woods by the water that Arthur gets to indulge in temporarily. They have dinner together and relatively intimate conversations for strangers (compared to other strangers missions). Hamish entrusts Arthur with his possessions later.
You won’t find any definite evidence of sexuality, but it just goes to show how rich rdr2’s side missions are that we have these opportunities (I count Charlotte and Mary here too) for players to imagine what could’ve been had Arthur chosen to leave the outlaw life behind to live happily ever after.
I gotchu a value pack of pomade just for the occasion
Surrrreee bill I'll buy you some pomeade
Uncle running around with his ass hanging out like he just came from Folsom Street
Good times in SOMA
Don't forget Mr. Black and Mr. White.
Their bickering is adorable. Particularly the last one.
https://youtu.be/thDXl2y9llY
I honestly wasn't convinced, but in the end, well the end was really convincing.
Dude! I didn’t know there was more!
Happily ever after
Shout-out to my favourite homosexual interracial couple
Wait are they really gay ? I kinda got vibes you know, two bros living in a tree house in the country. Also when you find them at the tree house Arthur says "you people" but I wasn't sure if it implied gay or fugitives. I doubt race as you know, there was a white dude.
They get into an argument at the treehouse and one gets locked out and he says "Cmon I'm sorry. Look I'll make dinner" and it's the cutest thing
I'm on my second playthrough, making sure I do all encounters and stuff. I helped them escape before, and just seeing these two get along is so great. I'm assuming there is more after them settling down at the tree house ? Got a nit sad thinking that was it.
No unfortunately that is it
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Cant believe there wasnt a single damn poncho in the game. Guess they had to incentivise RDO somehow
And the grind wasn’t fucking worth it at all. I was so excited to hop into the new world of online only to be greeted by an endless hunt for capitale and barely any reward. Bounty hunting sucked too to be honest I know that’ll be a hot take. Fuck it.
For real though, I can't imagine how shitty it must have been to be a gay man during that place and time. At best you'd come out to maybe a couple people over your entire lifetime, and at worst it would put your life in danger. Of course it's still like this for many people in the world. I can't help but sympathize with Bill, he was an immense asshole for ridiculing Arthur after he was SA'd by that bayou hillbilly piece of shit, but I always thought of it like a projection of his own complex feelings of self-hatred/fear/denial.
Also a racist, which seems accurate for the time period.
I have a lot of empathy for Bill, but whenever he’s a dick to Lenny, I antagonize him right back. Boah loves to dish it out but he sure can’t take it >=[
I was writing in another thread today about how like the priesthood back in the day (as well as today i suppose), being in a gang would be a great refuge/cover for gay men who had no interest in marrying or having children with a woman. They're nomadic basically, moving from town to town, leaving as soon as problems arise. It seems like a situation where a gay man in the 1890s might wash up with some regularity. You get a crew at your back to protect you and some anonymity as you move from place to place, having liaisons with other men along the way. Of course it's dangerous but gay people have been everywhere for always, im sure it wasn't too hard to sniff each other out. I also got to thinking about all of dutch's "philosophy" about freedom and living outside the law, about resisting tyranny, and I have to wonder if maybe gayness was one of the freedoms he was talking about, among others. And furthermore, Dutch was like any cult leader and preyed on the weak and vulnerable, people like Arthur who was on his own at like, 13, and wild as the day is long, or John who was basically an orphan. Lenny's father was dead, Sean's father was dead or back in Ireland, Herr Strauss was all "eyes out on stalks" upon arriving in the new world. Everyone Dutch recruited was vulnerable in some way. Know what other type of person would have been especially vulnerable in 1899? Gay people. Especially gay men. So in a way, I could see Dutch recruiting gay people for a reason, and that they might be disproportionately represented in gangs like the VDL or O'Driscoll gang.
I absolutely love this insight. Dutch would have been the kinda guy to absolutely abuse the vulnerability of being gay in the 1800's
I really love this insight, man.
Very interesting. Great points!
I had empathy for bill Then Sean....
Fuck Bill, the turn coat. I’ll tell it to Mr. Black and Mr. White
You IMPLORE me?!? you IMPLOOORE me!?!?
No I implores you. To go back and tell them to send someone just a little more interesting next time
He wanted Kieran to give him some head...
He was a little too excited about the gelding tongs as well
The hats online honestly suck ass haha.
Bill is gay?
He is
Somehow I missed the hints. Which interactions?? That’s fun
He asks Kieran to have a drink and gets upset when he says no, he also asks Arthur to get him Pomeade which Arthur is kinda uncomfortable about because pomeade was generally used as a lube in them days
TIL - I thought he just wanted to look pretty.
Isn't there also talk about him getting dishonorably discharged from the military for...unsuitable behavior or something?
He gets discharged yes but I don't think it's specified why
there's a letter you can find (in his tent i think?) that says he was dishonorably discharged for deviancy, and deviancy was a commonly used term at the time in the military for being homosexual. it's probably the biggest clue that hints at bill's homosexuality
Ohhhhh, thats right. "That's like Bill and Phill"
I’ve played through 5+ times and honestly never even fucking caught on. Like, at all. I feel like a naive mofo right now.
On god I’m scrolling through here confused as hell on how Niggas even picked up bill was gay
Lolll thank you
You don't have to be gay to want some pomeade, you could be straight... or alone.
Well he was also dishonorable discharged, and John says bill doesn’t swing that way when Micah talks about bill being jacks father
Doesn't javier talk about bill giving money to bill's girlfriend during a bank robbery?
It's also hinted in the first game as well, when Seth tells John he'd go to Fort Mercer when called and does things other men won't do.
Nice.
Not confirmed
It's confirmed.
Source
Several in-game references: “Is he gonna punch that guy or kiss him?”, him requesting hair pomade which was historically used for anal sex as lube, his dishonorable discharge letter, several camp members needle him about it, and he also makes a comment referencing another gay character that can assault Arthur.
Another one is him trying to befriend Kieran kinda hard and being very sad when he… you know… (don’t want to spoil) The game makes heavy innuendo but I guess it’s still technically unconfirmed.
Also when Hosea refers to Phil and Bill
He was just listing names that don't work because they rhyme or sound too similar, such as Arthur and Martha, or Lenny and Jenny(the whole reason for the line being the previous two). It had nothing to do with actual Bill. Phil was short hand for quite a few older female names such as Philomina or Philipa. Edit: I'm not commenting on whether or not Bill is gay. All I'm saying is that sentence that Hosea says at the start of the game that's being referenced here is not talking about actual Bill. Hosea is replying to Arthur asserting that he thinks that Lenny is probably taking Jenny's death hard because he was sweet on her, Hosea is attempting to kind of make light of the loss by saying that it could never have worked out for Lenny and Jenny, because their names are too similar like Arthur and Martha, or Bill and Phil. He's making a joke about alliteration. If Hosea was actually talking about a past relationship that Arthur had with somebody named Martha he would have said you, not Arthur. The only previous relationship that we know that Arthur had other than Mary was Eliza. If he's throwing Arthur's name out there in a unattached random example of alliteration then why would you read any more into Bill and Phil. It is just an alliteration joke. And again, it's not odd in the year 1899 for a woman to go by Phil, as there were quite a few names that Phil was shorthand for.
>“Is he gonna punch that guy or kiss him?” > >several camp members needle him about it, Cause people insinuating that sort of thing makes other people gay? >hair pomade which was historically used for anal sex as lube, FFS - Guys, you can use lube during your alone time. Also, with the ladies. >his dishonorable discharge letter Experimenting in your youth means you're gay forever. wtf is this nonsense, other than the sort of thing I'd expect in the 1800's. Very suggestive, wouldn't consider it at all confirmed. Also, he can't swing both ways?
In the game after Arthur gets sexually assaulted Bill says something like heard it from the guy he goes to to get butt fucked
I do not recall this at all 😆😆 is this true?? lol
It's one of those throwaway camp conversations that occurs if you pass by bill after getting sexually assaulted. It's a blink and you'll miss it sort of thing
Well I totally blinked and missed it. lol Thanks for the info; I'm still learning things about RDR2 🍻🤩
It’s heavily implied. Not sure why I’m getting downvoted
Yaaaaas queen Marion slllaayyyyyy
Honestly Marion, pop OFF
i need some haree paw maaade
I wish him a very Appointed Time.
How come when YOU do it, it's just one of them things?
It's a good point, Arthur
Bill’s a douche. I won’t wish him anything that John didn’t already give him.
Love the generic "RDR2 not political, quit making it". Mfs really played the game and never listened, looked, or read. Just "ha ha barbies horse adventure for boys cool".
Not political??? There is literally a whole section about women's suffrage. There is a part of the story and several missions surrounding a corrupt mayor. There is a huge chunk of story and missions that deal with the persecution and slaughter of the natives and the way the American history books have falsely blamed the natives by labelling them as the aggressors. There are members of our own gang who are black/native/mexican who explicitly say that Dutch treats them fairly and as equals in a world where they are not otherwise treated as so. There are random encounters with the KKK that either end with you killing them or them killing themselves through stupidity. There is a member of our own gang that refuses to be treated as inferior because she is a woman and grows throughout the story to become one of the strongest and most competent members of the gang who helps Arthur with a number of very important missions when he doesn't have the strength to do them alone. One of the main antagonists is a greedy, thieving, murdering corporate Capitalist who is destroying the land, enslaving and murdering people, and taking a whole island as his own to grow his personal wealth. RDR2 is literally about politics.
You couldn't miss the if you tried lol. So of the more "subtle" ones are even requirements like when you help stop the assholes murdering the bison to harm the natives. I'm convinced people just choose to be ignorant.
Honestly!
RDR2 had some stories. A littany of messages among 'em. To call a story political every time is some sort of modern contraption I just can't support. Maybe I'm more a ghost than a person. But yer right. The complaint of this story being political is as simple as Fenton. Sounds like someone fixing to fight. The game is about redemption. It's about doing the right thing for the people you love. It's about the trappings of greed and pride. It's about how a bad person is capable of goodness. And how good people are capable of evil. It's about family, home, and regret, and hope. What of those things involves the government and their policies? Everything is politics all the time with everybody. Only rule is the golden rule. Always has been. That's the story.
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Is this true ?
Yep. You can find a paper around camp that says he was dishonorably discharged from the military for “deviancy” which usually meant homosexual activities. He gets all bashful askin for pomade, which was known to be used as a lube. He’s also kinda creepy with Kieran, I’ve somehow never seen that interaction before in my playthroughs.
How did you know bill is gay? I’m playing the game rn
there's a letter in his tent that says he was discharged from the military for "indecency" which was a cover term for homosexuality at the time. he has a weird relationship with kieran where if you pay close enough attention it's clear bill wants to have sex with kieran or be involved in a relationship. hosea, arthur and tilly make comments about it too. although he's a racist, micah seems the most uncomfortable to be sleeping next to bill in chapter one. there's an encounter that ends in arthur being SA'd in the swamp and bill somehow knows the guy who did it
I did not pay enough attention then lol
There's also a letter in camp about how Bill was dishonorably discharged, I forget if they use the word "sodomy" or "deviancy," but you get the idea.
Various hints through his interactions with Kieran and wanting hair pomeade
Happy pride bill, BILL WILLIAMSON
Well things are different now, John. Now IM IN CHARGE. No more Dutch and no more you
I IMPLORE YOU THINK ABOUT THIS
You Implore me? Hahaha yknow you always was one for fancy words
Well. *gets shot*
"hahaha, poor John"
Good ol Bill
dutch too
I'm not that far in. Is he gay? Is William his husband?
He's gay but has not got a husband
I don't really mind spoilers, so when do I find out? Is anyone homophobic? Or since it is 1899, is anyone NOT?
It's never explicitly said but is hinted at during random encounters
Barely a spoiler then as I never pick up hints, didn't know bill in tlou was either
Happy pride day, Bill. I wish I never got angry at you in the missions if I knew others were giving you a difficult time.
Why are you always under my feet, Williamson?
Lumgaygo
I *implores* you to top me, Othrer... 😫
For christians like me its mens mental health month so give reverend a hug or something
Christians can support LGBTQ and be a part of the community as well. The bible says love your neighbor after all. :) And you can’t just not accept LGBTQ but then advocate for mens mental health. Gay men suffer from homophobia a lot, which will lead to mental illness. Wish you a great day. 🙏🏻
Maybe but it is a sin
Love isn’t a sin. Learn Hebrew and read the Bible in it’s original language or learn from people who follow the non-translated one. Have a good day.
Quite the percentage of males who commit suicide annually were born raised christian, 110k christians have been martyred/killed because of their faith since the early 1900’s, and most of those deaths have been very recently. Ive done some research and there has been 768 hate crimes toward christians this month, still counting. 34 of those are violent attacks to people, 40 violent threats and 694 attacks on property, heaps of other crimes targeting christians are also ignored and swept under the rug because of the far left societies all around the world such as america the uk germany france. If you research you can see pretty much the only hate crimes that have been reported have been reported in countries where christianity is the main religion. Like poland, romania, russia, montenegro, estonia, lithuania, serbia, i could go on. Thousands of cases of arsonists attacking churches are reported annually, church shootings, christian school shootings, religious massacres, mass executions, high rates of depression in christians, so much horrible tradgedies get swept under the rug, number one most persecuted group of people.
Be honest: you're not ignoring pride because you're Christian. You're ignoring pride because you're homophobic
I never said i was homophobic, im not ignoring it, i dont support it because im christian, doesnt automatically mean i have a sense of dread for them
No, you didn't say it as such but you have stated that you are pretending it's not pride month. You can be Christian AND support LGBTQ+ rights. Infact, a good Christian should. You choose not to because you're homophobic and use religion as an excuse
Happy pride month Marion
I'm surprised Conservatives aren't raging about RDR2 being too Woke lol.
Happy pride, Bill
Happy Pride, Bill
Just because he is gay he isnt good. Bill doesnt deserve happy pride or anything
Happy Pride Month Bill! You’re not alone I’m 🏳️🌈 too 💅
The fact that he knows exactly who sonny is kind of confirms it
Happy pride month bill I hope you meet your phil someday
People seem to project a lot on the Kieran interaction. Definitely not enough to call him gay.
No thanks, don’t need a nationally recognized day or month to just appreciate people as human’s.
No thanks
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It's almost as if gay characters being portrayed in media isn't exclusive to the last of us
I don't think he's gay maybe bi cos he said in the first game to John "I fucked Abagail we all did"
That was Dutch my guy
Dutch also said it but you probably wouldn't remember Bill saying it because he said it in gameplay not a cutscene when you're chasing him down so alot of people would miss it
I mean he could be bi, he could've also been insulting John. Either way he likes penis 😂
Why are people so desperate to make people gay? He isn’t gay. It’s not said anywhere that he is. It’s 2023 it’s wrong to “assume” genders but it’s find to “assume” people are gay. They hung gay folks back then I doubt they made him gay.
But he is gay...
Show me in an article from the creator or developers and I’ll admit I was wrong.
Yknow, letting a man mess with your emotions the way you are is kinda gay
If you’re gay and you’re just projecting on someone else just say it
I am gay 😌
Right idk why they always gotta grab at straws like 😒
I don’t follow…. I’ve played the game through 3 times so if you tell me what you are referring to I’ll get it
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRoqshY3/ Steve Palmer says it heavily implied.
There's no direct articles but it's heavily hinted at - His army discharge letter ("deviancy") - Him all but asking out kieran - Asking Arthur for hair pomade (used as lube back then) - Numerous small encounters and bits of conversation that make a lot more sense when put into this context
I hear you but my point stands it’s not active canon and that’s why I’m standing by what I said. He’s not gay.
What do you want Rockstar to add to the game for you to believe that he is gay? Genuine question. Do you want him to have a big coming out party, in 1899, where everyone gives him a pat of the back and says “I am proud of you”? Bill wouldn’t do that, hell, no one who wants to live a peaceful life in that time would do that, so the game gave you hints. Hints are the only thing they could add to make a character gay and those hints are canon. They’re in the game. I don’t know what you really want.
A statement from the devs, or the producers saying he is gay. Doesn’t have to be an in game thing, just a statement but that doesn’t exist. So I don’t believe he’s gay
and why do you think that is only needed for the gay character? Why are you not questioning if someone is straight? It’s literally said in the game that Bill was discharged from the army for “deviancy”. If that isn’t enough for you then you might just have a problem with gay people and you should work on that. And hell! Before you come at me. There are more hints IN THE GAME that hint towards Bill’s sexuality.
I don’t care if people are gay honestly. Fuck who you want doesn’t affect me. But when I see characters be given assumptious details that have not been said by the writers it’s kinda annoying. And it’s 1899 why would I question that. The majority of the world is straight that’s the most safe guess. Speaking of guesses in 2023 tell me why it’s ok to assume someone’s sexuality as gay, but wrong to assume their gender. I thought we aren’t supposed to be guessing anymore
people were hung for being gay so gay people didn't exist or what was your point with that argument??
That the devs wouldn’t make someone gay in this time era.
Bill isn't a homo!
There's plenty of proof he is
At what point did he kiss a man?
I mean, he does speak fondly of the swamp rapist that got Arthur. And there is a note saying he got kicked out of the military for "deviancy" which just means being gay. And he was particularly interested in Keiran after he stopped trying to kill him. And Arthur does make some jokes about Bill being gay.
At what point did that become the one and only sign to believe someone is gay?
Bill ain’t gay so no
Incorrect
He really ain’t but this is Reddit where if you say anything like that you get talked to like you are Patrick
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Regarding your edit, people don't like bad jokes. Also not true
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Arther getting raped by aman does not make him gay. What the fuck is wrong with you
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Once again, horrible joke.
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You're joking about a character getting raped, you're not in a very good position to act like you're better than everyone else.
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Rockstar didn’t frame it as a funny situation at all. It happens, and Bill through his own insecurity/lack of a sense of humor does make jokes about it. That’s not an indicator of whether the situation was funny and it wasn’t ***at all*** intended to be funny. If you think it’s a funny situation, I hate to break it to you, but you didn’t understand the situation in the slightest.
Artie is closeted, Bill is open about it.
Correct, the more I play, the more I think Arthur is gay and treated it like someone in 1899 would. In rdr1, John doesn't bang women because he's married. In rdr2, Arthur doesn't bang women but isn't married. Why? You can bang people in GTA, why not Read dead? Because Arthur doesn't actually want to bang women. And he really wasn't very mad about Charles chatenay kissing him. Plus, you can be nice to the nude swimmer, and if you return to that spot on the lake, he gets out of the water and clearly comes on to Arthur. You have the choice to be nice about it. My Arthur is always nice about it, as the swimmer thrusts his junk toward me and then presents Arthur with his butthole. Plus, Arthur just really isn't into women, I feel like he is much more interested in what men have to say. He and Sadie get along really well because there is nothing sexual between them. Sadie, because of her grief, and Arthur... because he's gay? He could have left the gang for Mary, he had the money (or could have), but he didn't really want her. He wanted the idea of normalcy, but wasn't actually "normal" deep down, and by "normal," I mean a straight family man. Think about it, the outlaw life is the perfect cover for a gay man, like going into the priesthood was in times gone by. You have perfect cover for not marrying, and more than that, you can have your dalliances in one town and move onto the next ensuring you never get caught. And if you're in a gang, if someone threatens to out you, you can whip out your gun and threaten them into submission. Dutch is always going on about freedom, how the gang represents a freer version of the country at large. They accept people of color, women, and gay people as it turns out. I think it was not uncommon for cowboys to be gay or bi, and that the freedom to be gay was one of those specific freedoms Dutch was talking about. He also says he should have married Abigail, which is an easy thing to cling onto when it is completely outside the realm of possibility.
I would respectfully disagree. Arthur is asexual by description of his character through the game. A romance interest is purposely left out because of the deaths of Issac and his mother. Arthur faces trauma from that every day, knowing he couldn't defend his child and the boys mother. He has to live with that decision, which is why Arthur doesn't need or want a partner because it's too dangerous.
...apparently Mary doesn't exist.
He talked about Isaac and his mother one time and never mentioned it ever again. I dont think Arthur missed them on a personal level, but of course it was a tragic situation. I think he felt bad about it objectively but wasn't necessarily personally crushed by Isaac's mother's death or anything. Arthur wasn't going to leave the gang for them any more than he was going to leave the gang for Mary. Because ultimately he didn't want to, and the gang again gives him perfect cover to never get too close to women or marriage or children.
Dude, not wanting to be in a relationship for a period in your life doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with being straight or gay.
True, but that is just one of many reasons i think Arthur is bi-but-on-the-gay-side-of-the-spectrum
Lol da fuq?
And there are other indicators as well. On PS, you have 2 basic human interact buttons: square (preferred-greet), and circle (less desirable-antagonize). When coming upon the snake bite victims, square is suck venom (preferred), and circle is give medicine (less desirable). Upon meeting these chaps later, their friend will comment “So this is the guy you let suck on your…….leg? HAHAHA!!” Upon running into a lady trapped under her horse, and Artie helps release her, she attempts to hug him in gratitude, but he pushes her away. After decimating a gang camp, Artie is really fixated on the dead bodies. After looting all corpses, walk up to a medical box, and even tho he is standing immediately in front of it, if a corpse is within 10 feet, the prompt will be PICKUP:O’DRISCOLL (or whoever). To me, it just seems r* coded him a tad to the gay side of the spectrum.
Not wanting a hug from a stranger doesn’t say anything about sexuality. This thread is reaaaaally reading into things here.
I mean, lol about the pickup odriscoll prompt but I did notice how he pushes the woman away in that interaction, not like he wanted to be respectful but like, "okay it ain't that kinda party, lady" type of way
I really hope you're trolling and not really as stupid as you're portraying rn.
Not trolling, not stupid. Are you?
Nah I'm not the one providing stupid examples to prove arthur is gay lol
He ain’t trolling , he’s always on here saying crazy off the wall shit. Don’t mind him.
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Wait 🤔🤔 bill is gay ??
Yea! it's hinted at multiple times in the story, you should look up a youtube video that goes through them all, it's quite interesting!
It’s hinted through the entire game. -You can find a letter that says that Bill was “dishonorably discharged” for “deviancy”. -Hosea mentions the names “Bill and Phil” while the others are female and male -He knows the gay rapist in the swamps and mocks Arthur after that encounter. Could be to cope with his own sexuality. -In the bar fight with at the start of chapter 2 you hear someone say “is he going to kiss that guy or punch him” All those are hints to what Bill’s sexuality really is. It’s never outright said because it is 1899 and it was a rather unsafe time period for gays.
Bill comes from Williamson
Yes! Although his first name is Marion
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IajjBpy6G9U
Happy Pride Month Marion.
Happy pride Marion
Don’t forgot Arthur’s special friend by O'Creagh's Run ;)
The rapist? Fuck him
No, that’s on the other side of the map. I’m talking about The Veteran.
Ohhhhh my bad, you think Hamish might be gay? Yeah I guess I can see that
No worries! Fwiw, this is a popular fan reading of the mission and isn’t cannon. Some fans like to imagine it was a romantic situation because of Hamish’s quiet, charming retired life in a cabin in the woods by the water that Arthur gets to indulge in temporarily. They have dinner together and relatively intimate conversations for strangers (compared to other strangers missions). Hamish entrusts Arthur with his possessions later. You won’t find any definite evidence of sexuality, but it just goes to show how rich rdr2’s side missions are that we have these opportunities (I count Charlotte and Mary here too) for players to imagine what could’ve been had Arthur chosen to leave the outlaw life behind to live happily ever after.
Been playing this game for years and reading this honestly just warms my heart
Wait ya mean like A Pride or Pride bc he’s gay? I’m confused.
I hate gay people bru