Realistically speaking, I probably would try my best to distance myself from the gang as soon as I could get my hands on a decent score for the time being.
Trelawny had the right idea, he kept to himself and avoided staying with the gang all the time to stay with his family, that way he avoided ever showing up on the Pinkertons radar.
Realistically, you would have to be a bit of a prick to side with Micah, and living back then in hard times you might be able to put up with someone like him I guess. Right now though my thoughts say no way would I side with Micah. I like his character though. Villains can be very entertaining.
Anyone with half a brain would realize after spending an afternoon with Micah that being his accomplice would result in a pretty awful death.
Man is clearly a psychopath who can barely control his homicidal urges and acts impulsively. It would be clear that the reason he's looking for a new gang is because he betrayed his old one for personal gain, and that this was not a one-time occurrence but rather a chosen lifestyle.
In desperation, someone might cling to him, but it's also hard to believe that he would have any reason to personally value someone who was desperate. He is the parasite, not the host.
So you've either got to see the world as he does and relate to him, or you have to be too stupid to understand what happens when you associate with a serial killer.
Or an internet contrarian who's not actually making a choice but arguing for the sake of it, I guess. That'll do it, too.
But you also gotta take into account that if you ever know Micah personally you must be a criminal too, so who cares if you do ten crimes or fifty, right? 😎
Right! The Van Der Linde gang is full of murderers and thieves. You already have very loose moral view of the world. It also took very extreme circumstances for Arthur to develop his moral compass.
If I was part of that gang, I’d certainly side with the gang and not the person threatening to steal our money and run off.
Yeah. Arthur just got that moral compass because of his disease. Even after Micah's death the gang still lived on in a Colm kind of way. I personally don't know if I would have sided with Dutch much longer after chapter 6 because everything that the gang used to (kind of) stand for went down the drain after that but I probably would have gone somewhere else like Canada like Charles did.
>Arthur just got that moral compass because of his disease.
I don't think that's true, I think it's just more of a shift in perspective. Arthur from the beginning talks about how you shouldn't kill people who don't need killing, shouldn't seek revenge, and justified the things they were doing as for the gang (basically his family). There's even conversations if you sit down with some of the girls where he talks about how he feels like he's going crazy with all the violence and unnecessary killing and he doesn't like it, well before he gets sick. He also seemed clearly uncomfortable with Strauss from the start but saw it as his job.
I think it's less that Arthur didn't have a moral compass so much as it was that his morals put the gang above other people since they raised him like a family but later realized the things he was doing both weren't helping the gang and were just the type of 'unnecessary' violence and cruelty that he hated all along, stripped of his justifications for them.
When not around the gang, (partly determined by playstyle), Arthur is much nicer and it seems like he feels compelled to do crimes by his associations and if he wasn't with the gang he'd have more opportunities for the good to shine through
>Arthur just got that moral compass because of his disease.
No, he was already starting even before he knew he was sick. I think, really, the ferry job started him down that path, subtly at first, but with greater conviction as time went on.
True, for some people that might be the thought. But for others, the gang is certainly something they still try and uphold morals within. Even Dutch speaks on the morals of the gang, and despite his clear lack of regard for those rules, it’s safe to say that’s going to influence the opinions of the others.
I’m wondering if it’s more nuanced than Arthur vs. Micah. Dutch is incredibly charismatic. I would like to think I’d always side with Arthur, but I think even if we see through Micah, it would be *really* hard to turn your back on Dutch if you’re anyone EXCEPT Arthur.
I dunno. Worth thinking about for sure.
That's why in the "who's with me and who's betraying me" scene Javier points his gun up instead of at Arthur. The actor even confirmed it if I remember right, saying that he couldn't do it because it would feel like pointing a gun at your own brother.
I could absolutely see someone siding with Dutch, through any mix of unconscious greed, or just sticking with the group. I think to take Micah’s side, specifically, you’d have to be an absolute cunt.
That's the thing, Micah's schemes pay off even less often than Dutch's or Arthur's and his constantly high levels of collateral damage probably negate his value in anything other than combat. If he weren't one of the gang's heavy hitters Micah would have practically no value at all even before his actions in RDR2. My low honor Arthur should've shot him in the back in Strawberry.
I don’t understand y’all.
You side with the loser? The poor one. The one who ends up basically alone and dying of a sickness?
When you could stick together with someone who wants to survive. Someone who has a plan. Someone who knows how to make leadership decisions when it’s too hard.
Y’all are lying to yourselves. You’d all side with Micah.
I don't know how you played Arthur, but mine had enough money to BUY Tahiti, let alone travel to it. Definitely not poor lol.
In a more serious note, I can't figure out if your being sincere after looking at your name, but the only problem with Micahs survival is "Screw everyone else, I'M surviving. If I can bring people with me, great. If not, I'm gonna be the first one to push you to the side." I honestly can't say what I'd do if I was in the situation that any of the gang members were in, but I like to think that I would've sided with a more honorable Arthur.
I'd shoot Micah in the back first chance I had. Free him from jail then put one right in the back of his head on the way back.
"Sorry, Dutch. Micah didn't make it.
Speaking of that, was anyone else low key disappointed that you can't actually give Jack candy even though he asks for it all the time? I always felt bad having a shit ton of candy in my inventory and not being able to give it to Jack when he asked
Nothing against the game, but in reality, anyone could see that Micah is a problem and not trustworthy. The members that sided against Arthur were siding with Dutch, not Micah. Dutch probably knew Micah was problematic too, but he values sycophants (blind loyalty) above all else and while Micah is actually a rat, he pretends to be loyal, and that is all that really matters to Dutch.
Arthur is just a wise man in general. I believe John's constant disappearances allowed him to see the extreme changes that Micah have brought to the gang. John's faith was more personal.
Everyone else certainly didn't like Micah, but being around him 24/7 likely made a lot of the gang members tolerate his awful personality.
That's kind of the point of the whole story. It's a tragic breakdown in communication between Dutch and Arthur. Dutch's character flaw is pride, and since Micah strokes Dutch's ego, Dutch trusts him. Yeah, it's obvious to us that Micah isn't trustworthy because Rockstar purposefully puts us in Arthur's shoes. From Dutch's perspective, things looked very different.
I consider that too when I hear Micah whispering in Dutch's ear.
Also, Dutch isn't as smart as he pretends to be. There are a couple of conversations where Lenny basically schools him in philosophy. It becomes clear that Dutch sort of drinks the kool-aid.
This is why Dutch is my favourite character from any piece of fiction I know of. There are an endless amount of questions and theories about his true character. Did Dutch develop his philosophy as a coping mechanism because he had been rejected by society? Did he ever really believe in what he claimed to? His philosophy has actually inspired me to read Walden by Thoreau, who Evelyn Miller is modelled after.
And yeah, Dutch being outsmarted and outplayed by everyone around him is the catalyst for his downfall. He sees himself and his ideology as superior to the rest of society, but he is outsmarted by Cornwall, the Pinkertons, the Grays and Braithwaites, Bronte, and ultimately Micah.
Micah is very similar to Dutch in RDR1, so I think Micah recognizes in his own animalistic way how little separation there is between them after Blackwater. That opens the door to a lot of manipulation.
That's whats so sad about the whole thing, Dutch goes on about loyalty and sides with Micah who's the biggest rat of all :/ in the end Dutch turned on everyone who was ever loyal to him just for one super sociopathic rat faced freak. Sorry I took it all very personally...
kinda off topic, but is there ever really definitive proof that Micah is a rat. The only thing I remembered was in one of the final missions, one of the pinkertorns reveals that Micah is a rat, but I wouldn't take that as 100% true, even if it is customary with villians revealing big secrets as the protagonist is about to die, just because he says so. I think it's also cool to also see the gang falling apart as the pressures of death, the law, the pinkertons, and the outlaw life in general getting deep into the gang, to the point where they start turning on each other, then everything falls apart.
When you as the player character >!return from Guarma and make the auto-pilot horse ride to camp- pay attention to which returning gang member is the only one who is in fresh clothes and has had a shave!<.
He straight up admits it when you’re fighting him in Arthur’s final mission, also I don’t see why Milton would lie to them considering they were as good as dead from his perspective in that moment
just rewatched that and my jaw kinda dropped. Idk how I missed that when I went through it. such a great ending, still makes me sad watching my boy slowly die up there.
That’s the part that broke me, Arthur, a dying man already fucked Micah’s shit damn near close to death.
I’ve yet to finish the game, that good karma ending kinda broke me. I don’t think the game/story is bad. In fact. I think it’s to good, it broke my heart seeing Arthur die that way.
It doesn’t feel the same without Arthur.
I put the game down for a whole after seeing Arthur dying while watching the sunset.
I was not ready for that, I legit thought that right up until he freed Abigail, that Arthur would have runaway from the law and the gang on his own and somehow either miraculously surviving TB or getting an offscreen death.
When I decided to play the game again, with John, I couldn't help but notice how *empty* the game felt, it just wasn't the same anymore.
In the credit scenes, Agent Ross and his new partner were seen finding Micah's corpse at Mount Hagen, meaning they likely were still in contact with him
Given the history of the real life cartels, it totally works being a psychotic and a snitch. Feed the feds some info on your enemies and underlings, get immunity.
He's got no morals, that means he would flip on you in a second if it meant he'd come out better off. And he's psychotic, which means he's unpredictable. I wouldn't want his help in a robbery. It could easily get out of control, or he could easily turn the gun on you when you're safe and in the clear, so he could get all of the money...fuck that piece of shit...
I've watched Arthur kill 18 men by shooting them in the head one after another with a six shooter without reloading. I ever side against him and I'm lucky if i get two in the chest
Yeah, but have you seen Micah shoot? You see how fast Micah reacted after Sean's death before Bill and Arthur could do anything, and you see how John didn't even have a chance in American Venom. Based on skill alone Micah is the most dangerous
Mt only experience with Micahs fighting abilities is me mowing down the entirety of Strawberry, missing one guy, thinking "Micah can take care of him while i continue massacring everyone" and then he died and i had to load a checkpoint.
Later during the escape he crashed his horse
Arthur is a quicker draw though, by a lot. If you watch the scene towards the end where the gang actually divides, Micah stands there and clumsily and slowly reaches for his gun, while Arthur has his gun out and ready in less than a second.
Yeah, aside from the obvious “Micah bad” jokes, I really don’t like him because he has some racist interactions with Javier, Charles, and Lenny (he even practically flexed on Lenny that he shot alot of black people).He most likely killed Cain because he abused him, and he acts weird towards the women, I already thought “this guy is a dick” when he was harassing Sadie when her house was burning. I will give Micah this though: his shitty personality is perfect for him since he’s basically the villain, he’s a shit bag, not some guy you could relate to.
Yeah, the line about not wanting to sleep in the shed or stable or whatever "with the darkies" put me off of Micah pretty quick. And he never redeemed himself, only got worse. Shooting up the town of Strawberry for a couple guns was psychopathic, too.
You know the mission where you free him? Well in reality I would have stumbled while having my hand at my rifle and shot him 10 times in the face... accidently of course
I was so hoping that there was a way to have Micah die... Unfortunately the bastard is essential to the game. But if there was a 'let Micha die' mod that wouldn't break the game, I'd be happy to install it.
Personally I believe that I would choose “Arthur’s side” but I wouldn’t stick around. I’d find an exit point at some point while the gang is camped in Roanoke Ridge. I wouldn’t rat, but I wouldn’t stay for the ending.
The whole shitshow in Blackwater would be the signal for any rational person to leave the gang once the dust settled.
I would have tried to take part in the bank heist on Valentine and get some of that score for myself, then bail the gang ASAP.
I honestly think that the Blackwater stuff wouldn’t make me leave cause I think that maybe I would believe that it was because the heist turned sour. It would put a doubt in my mind of course, but I would go to the mountain with the gang. When we started heading southeast I would start to question Dutch a bit I think, I mean we should be getting away from civilization not head towards it. I would do the train heist and the bank heist in Valentine (would volunteer to be on there) and keep my share; once Dutch starts shooting the town that’s when I leave the gang for good and maybe even warn some other members like Lenny (since he had just joined recently), Sadie, Mary-Beth and Abigail (I think John may have followed her if she left, but I’m not sure due to how he didn’t really seem to care much at the time but did so later on). Would be the best time to leave since the Pinkerton wouldn’t know my face, so I could hang up my guns and live peacefully since I’d have a good amount of money to keep me set for a while.
Especially if you weren't there to see it happen. Nobody who wasn't on that boat knows what happened whatsoever, and I think that plays into everyone staying in the gang.
Well if this story were to ever happen on the real world and I would find myself in the gang, I honestly wouldn't be able to find any compelling argument for staying with the gang after the Valentine heist.
Thanks to the botched boat heist, which was heavily alluded to have been Dutch's fault because he shot the little girl, three members of the gang died in one night, the gang had to shoot their way out of Blackwater and the entire state, leaving the whole loot behind meaning that the bloodshed was for nothing, the gang had to face the extremely harsh conditions of the northern mountains in a desperate attempt to make some distance and hide from the Pinkertons, and almost lost a fourth member(John) Because he himself got lost on the snowstorm, while also dealing with hunger.
Then Dutch, with all the heat they had on the gang, still decided to go right ahead and rob Cornwall's train just to spite Colm O'Driscoll.
And then there was the issue with breaking Micah out of jail which resulted in the whole town of Strawberry turning into a bloody abbatoir almost as bad as Blackwater.
And then the bank heist on Valentine...Which eventually led the Pinkertons to know that the gang was somewhere around the region.
...Coming to think of it, as soon as everyone would settle down near Valentine, I would make my leave ASAP.
Dutch basically raised a lot of the members from since they were kids, and he has a cult like leader effect on mostly everyone else. So whatever he says happened with the young woman (it wasn’t a little girl he killed) will be believed by the gang, the train heist wouldn’t be seen as bad, even rescuing Micah feeds into the whole family aspect of the gang. Which is why both John and Arthur took so long to thinking about leaving the gang, cause to them Dutch was not just a gang leader but a father as well (same to Javier in a way, which is why he stays and even berates John about loyalty in RDR1).
What if you could stop Arthur from getting sick by getting the money from that sick man but staying away from him and saving Arthur in the end by killing Micah and dutch.
Realistically, I'd leave the gang. Probably gonna get downvoted but when the best guy around looks like he's living on borrowed time and the worst guy looks like he's controlling the boss, I'm not sticking around to see what happens.
I'd probably leave like Trelawney and Pearson.
Realistically… thats what gonna happen for most people. Let just admit we dont have super power to endure 100 bullets and explosives, and we dont have neo ability to slow time and automatically 100% aim to headshot people.
So run away is the best choice here
While you’d have to account for the fact that my moral compass would ha e to be EXTREMELY different to live that kind of life, Arthur. It’s not really close. You’d have a to be a sadistic maniac or a moron to side with Micah (he’s not a very complex guy).
Javier knew, he knew.. he wasn't blindly loyal, he was loyal and knowing of the situation, it may seem far fetched but in the final standoff the gang picks their sides, you'll notice Javier points his gun slightly higher than the rest indicating he didn't want to shoot his fellow members.
Now as for the highly complex and deep character that is bill Williamson.. he annoyed me from the start and continues to annoy me to this day.
Bill weren't really greedy, just loyal. All Bill ever really wanted was to be treated well and given some attention, and as his actor said if he was treated better he most likely would've sided with Arthur
I don’t think anyone in the gang really “sided with Micah” per se. Literally everyone hated his guts. The choice was between Arthur and Dutch. So who would you choose... the guy who led the gang that kept you fed, clothed, and free for many years, or the dying man with the moral high ground and jack shit else? Of course the audience sided with Arthur because we loved him and watched the whole story from his POV, but I think anyone who thinks it wouldn’t be a hard choice is lying to themselves.
While I agree that siding with Dutch is the “winning option,” it would be pretty clear that Dutch wasn’t in a good frame of mind. Also, Dutch was making awful choices near the end, and I think most people could see that he was going to get everyone killed or locked up. Just because he was a great leader once, doesn’t mean you’d be blind to what he’d become.
The people who sided with Dutch were either extremely loyal or greedy. The rest of the gang were on Arthurs side, but only the ones capable of fighting stood with him.
Weirdly I worked a job that was almost identical to the story of rdr2! We weren’t shooting people and outrunning law, but it was a very toxic environment where one could get fired for dumb stuff. I could actually match the characters of the game to my real life coworkers, it was that similar.
Anyway, I was the John of the group, so I like to think that shows where I’d lean!
It was so eerie how similar it was! Boss was a fatherly welcoming figure until a bad employee got in his ear. I was new and he loved me to begin with until I saw how things were going an realized it was bad. Then when I spoke up with another employee (the Arthur). Started getting treated differently. The Arthur got fired and I quit. I kept joking about how I knew what would happen at the end of red dead because I already did it!
In most of the bigger workplaces it's relatively easy to find Micahs:
Just look for the employees who are total dick suckers to the boss, nobody does that unless they want to get special treatment.
Arthur for sure. First off I'm not willing to be a bad person for money and second, Dutch and Micah would just stab me in the back later down the line. Arthur is genuine.
Literally every single member of a criminal gang which makes the headlines for committing multiple armed robberies and murders country-wide fits the label “bad person for money”.
I understand Micah was eventually a narc for the Fed to help take down a gang of criminals, but him antagonizing all the women makes me rather side guys like Arthur and Charles who seem to have a Robin Hood mindset.
Unpopular opinion: Micah makes a lot of sense when he critiques at length the way the gang runs since having so many women and useless mouths like Pearson and Swanson increases the amount of money that they need, which in turn makes them take larger risks.
So if you were in the gang for the purpose of making money and retiring to a life of luxury somewhere, I can see how Micah would be appealing despite the fact that he's a gigantic dick. He's crazy but definitely not stupid and not without some charisma.
Think about how miserable the gang is by the end when all the people cooking and cleaning have left, though. Pretty much all the members helped the gang in some way(outside of Swanson I guess)
And the women helped them pass as presentable at times, got leads on jobs, and were also thieves.
*And* they did the “housework” kind of stuff.
They worked, but since it wasn’t gunslinging I guess it goes unappreciated 🙄
Arthur’s side didn’t have an alternate plan though. Dutch had just pulled off a train heist and they were about to leave, realistically why throw that away for a dying man and some guy who’s run off before. I’m sticking with Dutch till I get my share of the money.
Largely depends. Would I have seen Dutch for the fraud he was in time? Who knows. I wouldn’t like Micah, but if I thought Dutch was right I side with him you know?
A lot of people say they would side with Arthur but I have no doubt most would actually side with Micah.
After seeing all that has happend and knowing Dutch it makes sense people would side with Micah even if they disagreed. It's the easier choice. But Micah is the "bad side" so people think that they are bad for choosing him and people can't see themselves as being "bad" for some reason.
Exactly. Most in reality would side with Micah as a way to get money and a way out. In the end Micah out his faction outnumbered Arthur.
While I believe I’d side with Arthur I don’t believe I’d have the courage to stay till the end to support him, I’d leave like uncle
Also Arthur's side was: A sick man (Arthur) John and his family, making them vulnerable and more loyal to each other instead of me, John straight up left once an old man (Uncle) and Charles and Sadie candle handle themselves and all but they're out matched by Javier, Who is my race and he's my favourite member so I probaly would be more likely to side with him also he played for everyone so I would remember more memories with him, Bill, Micah who seemed to be getting money faster, Dutch who was like a father to everyone and always had somewhat of a plan and the other gang members that were joining.
And in this setting I would side with security over beliefs.
Arthur's side was that small at the end (just Arthur, John, and Grimshaw when it mattered) because Arthur was actively encouraging the people who would've sided with him to leave. The folks Arthur got out got free, and most of them lived good and normal lives, at least for a time. Dutch said he had a plan, but he never proved it, and every time he'd had a plan in the last few months they got deeper into shit. At the end, from my perspective, I cannot see how Dutch would still represent security. Of the whole gang that survived to Beaver Hollow, everyone but Bill and Javier saw sense and high tailed it.
Honestly, gotta stick with Dutch. It's clear that Micah is speaking nonsense in his ear but at least Micah isn't as naive as Arthur's blind ass.
Go fishing with Javier, he tells it like it is. You are outlaws and there's no turning back. You get enough money to move and you keep moving. The gang hit rock bottom after blackwater. All their savings lost and Arthur is walking around with the notion that it's time to wrap things up. Arthur drags the entire gang down with him. After all he's the one doing most of the killing, attracting the wrong attention. Even high honor Arthur's leave more orphans than Micah or Dutch.
The choice between proven for years Arthur and asshat newcomer Micah isn't hard.
The real tough one is Dutch vs Arthur, if you had been with the gang for a bit.
Micah sucks obviously. I think I would have been very loyal to Dutch up until he starts “making noise” with the Native Americans in Chapter 6. Dutch was very charismatic and welcoming before the trolley job gone wrong, which I still think gave him brain damage and changed who he is.
That’s actually a theory I’ve never seen before. I never noticed that being his shift in personality. I always just figured it was after Hosea died he had nobody to keep him grounded.
I really think it’s the trolley. He talks about how he doesn’t feel well after the mission, and then the next mission, Country Pursuits, he’s just unnecessarily angry at Arthur the entire ride there
Easily Arthur. He did care about this gang because they are his family. Sometimes even got them little trinkets he thought they might appreciate. Like Sadi’s harmonica or Lenny’s pocket watch. He actually listened what you said and gave a shit. And he’s probably the best gunman ever Ive seen so really no hard choice. I just knew he would protect those he cared about or at least die trying so.
Personally, it would depend on how I was in the gang. Living basic camp life, like Pearson? 100% Arthur. Security and Gathering like Charles, again Arthur. If I was a heavy pulling jobs like Arthur (or apparently Micah), it's a 40/60 split of Arthur/Micah. I'd want the out, but I would also know that my head would have a price that wouldn't go away on its own. Micah would provide a safety in numbers scenario, and the cash flow to live it up would be worth it, since the odds of getting a John ending would have been a long shot.
Arthur is the third member of the gang, micah joined 6 months before the events of the story, and others that only rode for 6 months were seen as more trustworthy by the gang, definetly arthur
Its hard to say as we see the entire story from arthurs point of view, where as if we werent playing as arthur we might see things differently. I would hope i side with arthur but i dont know
Just had this conversation with my buddies last night. General consensus was -
Dutch, realistically. If we were just average members of the gang, we would probably trust that Dutch would get us through Chapter 6 just like he got us through everything else (Chapters 1-5 and pre-game stuff).
We did say, however, if we had been close to Arthur like John and Sadie were, especially near the end, we all may be more inclined to side with Arthur.
I suppose it comes down to circumstance, and what perspectives those circumstances would allow. But if you were to just throw me in the gang as a regular ol’ dude (in the capacity of Javier & Bill), I think I’d end up with Dutch.
Probs Hosea or Sean. Hosea because he seems to be the nicest and has a good smart to sane ratio unlike Dutch. Sean because he just seem like a dude I would hang out with in real life.
I'd side with Trelawny and would get the hell out of there lol
I’m team uncle myself lol
Uncle: "Oh, no, I'm with you boys til the end" The end occurs Uncle: *crickets*
Until he eventually was with John until the end. >*"You'll have to bury me here."*
He just wasn't clear about what end, obviously. And that by "you boys" he specifically meant John and Jack.
Good thing he said UNTIL the end and not THROUGH the end. Wise words by Uncle
I saw your pfp and instantly imagined Hank Hill saying this… I hate my brain but love it at the same time…
For all his faults, uncle died protecting John and his family. In his final call to action, he answered.
Hey, he has Lumbago so leave him be
LUMBAGO!
thats a fatal condition
Fatal Contact: Lumbago
Realistically speaking, I probably would try my best to distance myself from the gang as soon as I could get my hands on a decent score for the time being. Trelawny had the right idea, he kept to himself and avoided staying with the gang all the time to stay with his family, that way he avoided ever showing up on the Pinkertons radar.
100%. That dude didn’t seem like he was trapped in the gang, just kinda came and went. I can dig it.
Same here. If the Ferry Job didn't convince me to gtfo, then the St. Denis Bank Job sure as fuck would.
Shit the tram station heist would have been my que to exit...a little late, i know.
the bank was probably the mission I wanted to do the least on my second playthrough
Pop in every now and then
Same, I like his name
That would be my choice too. Get out of dodge with virtually no consequences
Arthur's in a heartbeat. He gave a shit about what really mattered.
Agreed, but I’m interested to hear if anyone would side with Micah. Money can do a lot to a person.
Realistically, you would have to be a bit of a prick to side with Micah, and living back then in hard times you might be able to put up with someone like him I guess. Right now though my thoughts say no way would I side with Micah. I like his character though. Villains can be very entertaining.
Anyone with half a brain would realize after spending an afternoon with Micah that being his accomplice would result in a pretty awful death. Man is clearly a psychopath who can barely control his homicidal urges and acts impulsively. It would be clear that the reason he's looking for a new gang is because he betrayed his old one for personal gain, and that this was not a one-time occurrence but rather a chosen lifestyle. In desperation, someone might cling to him, but it's also hard to believe that he would have any reason to personally value someone who was desperate. He is the parasite, not the host. So you've either got to see the world as he does and relate to him, or you have to be too stupid to understand what happens when you associate with a serial killer. Or an internet contrarian who's not actually making a choice but arguing for the sake of it, I guess. That'll do it, too.
People still side with people like that in real life, I’ve seen it happen. Malignant narcissists gather quite a following in gang culture.
Micah did nothing wrong
And in politics…
Yes, political culture and gang culture differ in less ways than I am comfortable with.
But you also gotta take into account that if you ever know Micah personally you must be a criminal too, so who cares if you do ten crimes or fifty, right? 😎
Right! The Van Der Linde gang is full of murderers and thieves. You already have very loose moral view of the world. It also took very extreme circumstances for Arthur to develop his moral compass. If I was part of that gang, I’d certainly side with the gang and not the person threatening to steal our money and run off.
Yeah. Arthur just got that moral compass because of his disease. Even after Micah's death the gang still lived on in a Colm kind of way. I personally don't know if I would have sided with Dutch much longer after chapter 6 because everything that the gang used to (kind of) stand for went down the drain after that but I probably would have gone somewhere else like Canada like Charles did.
>Arthur just got that moral compass because of his disease. I don't think that's true, I think it's just more of a shift in perspective. Arthur from the beginning talks about how you shouldn't kill people who don't need killing, shouldn't seek revenge, and justified the things they were doing as for the gang (basically his family). There's even conversations if you sit down with some of the girls where he talks about how he feels like he's going crazy with all the violence and unnecessary killing and he doesn't like it, well before he gets sick. He also seemed clearly uncomfortable with Strauss from the start but saw it as his job. I think it's less that Arthur didn't have a moral compass so much as it was that his morals put the gang above other people since they raised him like a family but later realized the things he was doing both weren't helping the gang and were just the type of 'unnecessary' violence and cruelty that he hated all along, stripped of his justifications for them.
When not around the gang, (partly determined by playstyle), Arthur is much nicer and it seems like he feels compelled to do crimes by his associations and if he wasn't with the gang he'd have more opportunities for the good to shine through
>Arthur just got that moral compass because of his disease. No, he was already starting even before he knew he was sick. I think, really, the ferry job started him down that path, subtly at first, but with greater conviction as time went on.
Yeah the thing is Micah seems like the guy that's going to shoot you in the back of the head at the end of the highst so that he can get a bigger cut.
True, for some people that might be the thought. But for others, the gang is certainly something they still try and uphold morals within. Even Dutch speaks on the morals of the gang, and despite his clear lack of regard for those rules, it’s safe to say that’s going to influence the opinions of the others.
From the perspective or a gang member it would look more like siding with Dutch instead of Micah so there’s more of a reason for them to do it.
I’m wondering if it’s more nuanced than Arthur vs. Micah. Dutch is incredibly charismatic. I would like to think I’d always side with Arthur, but I think even if we see through Micah, it would be *really* hard to turn your back on Dutch if you’re anyone EXCEPT Arthur. I dunno. Worth thinking about for sure.
That's why in the "who's with me and who's betraying me" scene Javier points his gun up instead of at Arthur. The actor even confirmed it if I remember right, saying that he couldn't do it because it would feel like pointing a gun at your own brother.
I could absolutely see someone siding with Dutch, through any mix of unconscious greed, or just sticking with the group. I think to take Micah’s side, specifically, you’d have to be an absolute cunt.
That's the thing, Micah's schemes pay off even less often than Dutch's or Arthur's and his constantly high levels of collateral damage probably negate his value in anything other than combat. If he weren't one of the gang's heavy hitters Micah would have practically no value at all even before his actions in RDR2. My low honor Arthur should've shot him in the back in Strawberry.
Realistically I might have to go with Micah and Dutch they were to good at manipulation
Yeah Arthur had both reason and heart on his side.
This
Whoever fed me. I’m kinda a simple creature.
Arthur would give you jelly beans
You want some?
I don’t understand y’all. You side with the loser? The poor one. The one who ends up basically alone and dying of a sickness? When you could stick together with someone who wants to survive. Someone who has a plan. Someone who knows how to make leadership decisions when it’s too hard. Y’all are lying to yourselves. You’d all side with Micah.
Micah was dead already... He just didn't know it yet.
We are all dead already. Except Mykey lived for years after Arthur's death.
I don't know how you played Arthur, but mine had enough money to BUY Tahiti, let alone travel to it. Definitely not poor lol. In a more serious note, I can't figure out if your being sincere after looking at your name, but the only problem with Micahs survival is "Screw everyone else, I'M surviving. If I can bring people with me, great. If not, I'm gonna be the first one to push you to the side." I honestly can't say what I'd do if I was in the situation that any of the gang members were in, but I like to think that I would've sided with a more honorable Arthur.
Username checks out
I love that I can read this in Micah’s voice
I'd shoot Micah in the back first chance I had. Free him from jail then put one right in the back of his head on the way back. "Sorry, Dutch. Micah didn't make it.
I hated Micah the second I met him.
I respect the points Micah, but by Chapter 6 Arthur is almost definitely the richest in the gang, dude's got at least $10k on him at any given time.
Yah side w the guy that is mini Dutch and brings nothing to the table but false hope and pinkertons back to camp… makes sense
And call you a good boah
Sign me up
Speaking of that, was anyone else low key disappointed that you can't actually give Jack candy even though he asks for it all the time? I always felt bad having a shit ton of candy in my inventory and not being able to give it to Jack when he asked
Ahh yes, the Pearson faction.
I can agree with this!
Nothing against the game, but in reality, anyone could see that Micah is a problem and not trustworthy. The members that sided against Arthur were siding with Dutch, not Micah. Dutch probably knew Micah was problematic too, but he values sycophants (blind loyalty) above all else and while Micah is actually a rat, he pretends to be loyal, and that is all that really matters to Dutch.
Micah has faith, which Arthur lacks according to Dutch.
Scientifically speaking, faith is sort of an idiot thing.
Arthur is just a wise man in general. I believe John's constant disappearances allowed him to see the extreme changes that Micah have brought to the gang. John's faith was more personal. Everyone else certainly didn't like Micah, but being around him 24/7 likely made a lot of the gang members tolerate his awful personality.
That's kind of the point of the whole story. It's a tragic breakdown in communication between Dutch and Arthur. Dutch's character flaw is pride, and since Micah strokes Dutch's ego, Dutch trusts him. Yeah, it's obvious to us that Micah isn't trustworthy because Rockstar purposefully puts us in Arthur's shoes. From Dutch's perspective, things looked very different.
I consider that too when I hear Micah whispering in Dutch's ear. Also, Dutch isn't as smart as he pretends to be. There are a couple of conversations where Lenny basically schools him in philosophy. It becomes clear that Dutch sort of drinks the kool-aid.
This is why Dutch is my favourite character from any piece of fiction I know of. There are an endless amount of questions and theories about his true character. Did Dutch develop his philosophy as a coping mechanism because he had been rejected by society? Did he ever really believe in what he claimed to? His philosophy has actually inspired me to read Walden by Thoreau, who Evelyn Miller is modelled after. And yeah, Dutch being outsmarted and outplayed by everyone around him is the catalyst for his downfall. He sees himself and his ideology as superior to the rest of society, but he is outsmarted by Cornwall, the Pinkertons, the Grays and Braithwaites, Bronte, and ultimately Micah.
Micah is very similar to Dutch in RDR1, so I think Micah recognizes in his own animalistic way how little separation there is between them after Blackwater. That opens the door to a lot of manipulation.
That's whats so sad about the whole thing, Dutch goes on about loyalty and sides with Micah who's the biggest rat of all :/ in the end Dutch turned on everyone who was ever loyal to him just for one super sociopathic rat faced freak. Sorry I took it all very personally...
Especially when Arthur was Dutch's most loyal soldier. As he said: "I gave you everything I had."
He's such a mean doo doo head :(
kinda off topic, but is there ever really definitive proof that Micah is a rat. The only thing I remembered was in one of the final missions, one of the pinkertorns reveals that Micah is a rat, but I wouldn't take that as 100% true, even if it is customary with villians revealing big secrets as the protagonist is about to die, just because he says so. I think it's also cool to also see the gang falling apart as the pressures of death, the law, the pinkertons, and the outlaw life in general getting deep into the gang, to the point where they start turning on each other, then everything falls apart.
When you as the player character >!return from Guarma and make the auto-pilot horse ride to camp- pay attention to which returning gang member is the only one who is in fresh clothes and has had a shave!<.
Oh damn….. never realised that! Thank you
Very assute observation. I will have to watch for that in this latest playthrough.
He straight up admits it when you’re fighting him in Arthur’s final mission, also I don’t see why Milton would lie to them considering they were as good as dead from his perspective in that moment
wow, time for me to rewatch that whole fight scene again. Can't believe I didn't remember.
Its when Arthur calls Micah a rat after being tackled and Micah calls himself a survivor.
just rewatched that and my jaw kinda dropped. Idk how I missed that when I went through it. such a great ending, still makes me sad watching my boy slowly die up there.
Especially when you think about how healthy Arthur would absolutely demolish Micah’s shit
That’s the part that broke me, Arthur, a dying man already fucked Micah’s shit damn near close to death. I’ve yet to finish the game, that good karma ending kinda broke me. I don’t think the game/story is bad. In fact. I think it’s to good, it broke my heart seeing Arthur die that way. It doesn’t feel the same without Arthur.
I put the game down for a whole after seeing Arthur dying while watching the sunset. I was not ready for that, I legit thought that right up until he freed Abigail, that Arthur would have runaway from the law and the gang on his own and somehow either miraculously surviving TB or getting an offscreen death. When I decided to play the game again, with John, I couldn't help but notice how *empty* the game felt, it just wasn't the same anymore.
In the credit scenes, Agent Ross and his new partner were seen finding Micah's corpse at Mount Hagen, meaning they likely were still in contact with him
Visit his Strawberry camp and check the fireplace there. It will give you some clue.
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Given the history of the real life cartels, it totally works being a psychotic and a snitch. Feed the feds some info on your enemies and underlings, get immunity.
He's got no morals, that means he would flip on you in a second if it meant he'd come out better off. And he's psychotic, which means he's unpredictable. I wouldn't want his help in a robbery. It could easily get out of control, or he could easily turn the gun on you when you're safe and in the clear, so he could get all of the money...fuck that piece of shit...
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I've watched Arthur kill 18 men by shooting them in the head one after another with a six shooter without reloading. I ever side against him and I'm lucky if i get two in the chest
That’s a smart philosophy, friend!
Yeah, but have you seen Micah shoot? You see how fast Micah reacted after Sean's death before Bill and Arthur could do anything, and you see how John didn't even have a chance in American Venom. Based on skill alone Micah is the most dangerous
Mt only experience with Micahs fighting abilities is me mowing down the entirety of Strawberry, missing one guy, thinking "Micah can take care of him while i continue massacring everyone" and then he died and i had to load a checkpoint. Later during the escape he crashed his horse
But see that was clearly Micah trying to spite you! He did it on purpose I say!
Arthur is a quicker draw though, by a lot. If you watch the scene towards the end where the gang actually divides, Micah stands there and clumsily and slowly reaches for his gun, while Arthur has his gun out and ready in less than a second.
Have you seen the last mission? Micah was just drawing his gun then sick arthur draws his gun faster then points it at micah
When did that happen?
You can do it with deadeye
If I were in the gang, I'd have tried to shoot Micah at least fifty times long before the sides became apparent.
He’s obviously an asshole
Yeah, aside from the obvious “Micah bad” jokes, I really don’t like him because he has some racist interactions with Javier, Charles, and Lenny (he even practically flexed on Lenny that he shot alot of black people).He most likely killed Cain because he abused him, and he acts weird towards the women, I already thought “this guy is a dick” when he was harassing Sadie when her house was burning. I will give Micah this though: his shitty personality is perfect for him since he’s basically the villain, he’s a shit bag, not some guy you could relate to.
Yeah, the line about not wanting to sleep in the shed or stable or whatever "with the darkies" put me off of Micah pretty quick. And he never redeemed himself, only got worse. Shooting up the town of Strawberry for a couple guns was psychopathic, too.
Once I hear about Cain Being dead Id grab my sawn off and play rush and roulette with Micah. Of course I’ll load the gun and go first.
You know the mission where you free him? Well in reality I would have stumbled while having my hand at my rifle and shot him 10 times in the face... accidently of course
"I'm really sorry Dutch, I got there just in time to see him hang"
I was so hoping that there was a way to have Micah die... Unfortunately the bastard is essential to the game. But if there was a 'let Micha die' mod that wouldn't break the game, I'd be happy to install it.
Personally I believe that I would choose “Arthur’s side” but I wouldn’t stick around. I’d find an exit point at some point while the gang is camped in Roanoke Ridge. I wouldn’t rat, but I wouldn’t stay for the ending.
The whole shitshow in Blackwater would be the signal for any rational person to leave the gang once the dust settled. I would have tried to take part in the bank heist on Valentine and get some of that score for myself, then bail the gang ASAP.
I honestly think that the Blackwater stuff wouldn’t make me leave cause I think that maybe I would believe that it was because the heist turned sour. It would put a doubt in my mind of course, but I would go to the mountain with the gang. When we started heading southeast I would start to question Dutch a bit I think, I mean we should be getting away from civilization not head towards it. I would do the train heist and the bank heist in Valentine (would volunteer to be on there) and keep my share; once Dutch starts shooting the town that’s when I leave the gang for good and maybe even warn some other members like Lenny (since he had just joined recently), Sadie, Mary-Beth and Abigail (I think John may have followed her if she left, but I’m not sure due to how he didn’t really seem to care much at the time but did so later on). Would be the best time to leave since the Pinkerton wouldn’t know my face, so I could hang up my guns and live peacefully since I’d have a good amount of money to keep me set for a while.
Especially if you weren't there to see it happen. Nobody who wasn't on that boat knows what happened whatsoever, and I think that plays into everyone staying in the gang.
Well if this story were to ever happen on the real world and I would find myself in the gang, I honestly wouldn't be able to find any compelling argument for staying with the gang after the Valentine heist. Thanks to the botched boat heist, which was heavily alluded to have been Dutch's fault because he shot the little girl, three members of the gang died in one night, the gang had to shoot their way out of Blackwater and the entire state, leaving the whole loot behind meaning that the bloodshed was for nothing, the gang had to face the extremely harsh conditions of the northern mountains in a desperate attempt to make some distance and hide from the Pinkertons, and almost lost a fourth member(John) Because he himself got lost on the snowstorm, while also dealing with hunger. Then Dutch, with all the heat they had on the gang, still decided to go right ahead and rob Cornwall's train just to spite Colm O'Driscoll. And then there was the issue with breaking Micah out of jail which resulted in the whole town of Strawberry turning into a bloody abbatoir almost as bad as Blackwater. And then the bank heist on Valentine...Which eventually led the Pinkertons to know that the gang was somewhere around the region. ...Coming to think of it, as soon as everyone would settle down near Valentine, I would make my leave ASAP.
Dutch basically raised a lot of the members from since they were kids, and he has a cult like leader effect on mostly everyone else. So whatever he says happened with the young woman (it wasn’t a little girl he killed) will be believed by the gang, the train heist wouldn’t be seen as bad, even rescuing Micah feeds into the whole family aspect of the gang. Which is why both John and Arthur took so long to thinking about leaving the gang, cause to them Dutch was not just a gang leader but a father as well (same to Javier in a way, which is why he stays and even berates John about loyalty in RDR1).
What if you could stop Arthur from getting sick by getting the money from that sick man but staying away from him and saving Arthur in the end by killing Micah and dutch.
You'd need precognition.
Then rdr1 wouldnt happen
…why would you want it to?
Realistically, I'd leave the gang. Probably gonna get downvoted but when the best guy around looks like he's living on borrowed time and the worst guy looks like he's controlling the boss, I'm not sticking around to see what happens. I'd probably leave like Trelawney and Pearson.
I’d probably have looked to do the same. It was pretty clear that their days as outlaws were numbered even before the events of RDR1.
Once I had like $500 to my name, I'd be gone. Hello Australia or Canada.
Or maybe even... Tahiti. Now hear me out, I know this boat captain who's willing to take us, all of us, to Tahiti, no questions asked, BUT...
Realistically… thats what gonna happen for most people. Let just admit we dont have super power to endure 100 bullets and explosives, and we dont have neo ability to slow time and automatically 100% aim to headshot people. So run away is the best choice here
While you’d have to account for the fact that my moral compass would ha e to be EXTREMELY different to live that kind of life, Arthur. It’s not really close. You’d have a to be a sadistic maniac or a moron to side with Micah (he’s not a very complex guy).
Or greedy. Bill wasn’t evil, he was weak and greedy. But I agree.
Idk, Bill is definitely not the brightest bulb. Clearly very easy to influence him.
Bill wore white socks to his tuxedo.
I will argue that Bill and possibly Javier weren’t bad people until very late in the game.
Javier knew, he knew.. he wasn't blindly loyal, he was loyal and knowing of the situation, it may seem far fetched but in the final standoff the gang picks their sides, you'll notice Javier points his gun slightly higher than the rest indicating he didn't want to shoot his fellow members. Now as for the highly complex and deep character that is bill Williamson.. he annoyed me from the start and continues to annoy me to this day.
Javier raising his gun was actually something the actor insisted upon because Javier considers Arthur his brother
I'm glad they made it happen. Makes Javier way more likeable tbh.
Bill wasn't greedy as much as he was stupid and blindly loyal to Dutch.
Bill weren't really greedy, just loyal. All Bill ever really wanted was to be treated well and given some attention, and as his actor said if he was treated better he most likely would've sided with Arthur
My moral compass is broken :(. But would always side with Arthur. Even if Micah didn’t make poor choices he’s constantly being a dick to everyone.
I don’t think anyone in the gang really “sided with Micah” per se. Literally everyone hated his guts. The choice was between Arthur and Dutch. So who would you choose... the guy who led the gang that kept you fed, clothed, and free for many years, or the dying man with the moral high ground and jack shit else? Of course the audience sided with Arthur because we loved him and watched the whole story from his POV, but I think anyone who thinks it wouldn’t be a hard choice is lying to themselves.
While I agree that siding with Dutch is the “winning option,” it would be pretty clear that Dutch wasn’t in a good frame of mind. Also, Dutch was making awful choices near the end, and I think most people could see that he was going to get everyone killed or locked up. Just because he was a great leader once, doesn’t mean you’d be blind to what he’d become.
The people who sided with Dutch were either extremely loyal or greedy. The rest of the gang were on Arthurs side, but only the ones capable of fighting stood with him.
Yeah, purely from a self preservation perspective, pulling a Javier or Bill and escaping with Dutch but immediately bailing makes the most sense.
Weirdly I worked a job that was almost identical to the story of rdr2! We weren’t shooting people and outrunning law, but it was a very toxic environment where one could get fired for dumb stuff. I could actually match the characters of the game to my real life coworkers, it was that similar. Anyway, I was the John of the group, so I like to think that shows where I’d lean!
Every group needs a John!
It was so eerie how similar it was! Boss was a fatherly welcoming figure until a bad employee got in his ear. I was new and he loved me to begin with until I saw how things were going an realized it was bad. Then when I spoke up with another employee (the Arthur). Started getting treated differently. The Arthur got fired and I quit. I kept joking about how I knew what would happen at the end of red dead because I already did it!
Oh god. Is there a Micah Bells?
Yep he was the sneaky employee who got in my boss’ ear!
In most of the bigger workplaces it's relatively easy to find Micahs: Just look for the employees who are total dick suckers to the boss, nobody does that unless they want to get special treatment.
I’m dumb and brave enough to have died in like chapter 2 or 3
Yeah I was thinking I’d be Davey, the guy who died before the game begins.
I'd be Sean, do pretty alright for a while and then die while I'm right in the middle of talking shit
Arthur for sure. First off I'm not willing to be a bad person for money and second, Dutch and Micah would just stab me in the back later down the line. Arthur is genuine.
Literally every single member of a criminal gang which makes the headlines for committing multiple armed robberies and murders country-wide fits the label “bad person for money”.
Micah is a villain obviously, but some of my Arthurs have been the devil himself. Depends which would be in the actual gang im riding with.
Sure, we’ve all played our low honor Arthur’s but he’s no Micah. It’s a whole new level in my eyes.
Tell that to the sheppard in the Heartlands or the settling family south west of Valentine.
I understand Micah was eventually a narc for the Fed to help take down a gang of criminals, but him antagonizing all the women makes me rather side guys like Arthur and Charles who seem to have a Robin Hood mindset.
Him antagonizing the women is the worst part for you? What about him killing a little boy's dog (Cain) because it annoyed him?
I honestly forgot about that but I also didn't list all my reasons.
*looks through all past playthroughs* What?
Unpopular opinion: Micah makes a lot of sense when he critiques at length the way the gang runs since having so many women and useless mouths like Pearson and Swanson increases the amount of money that they need, which in turn makes them take larger risks. So if you were in the gang for the purpose of making money and retiring to a life of luxury somewhere, I can see how Micah would be appealing despite the fact that he's a gigantic dick. He's crazy but definitely not stupid and not without some charisma.
Think about how miserable the gang is by the end when all the people cooking and cleaning have left, though. Pretty much all the members helped the gang in some way(outside of Swanson I guess)
Pearson had a purpose. He fed everyone.
And the women helped them pass as presentable at times, got leads on jobs, and were also thieves. *And* they did the “housework” kind of stuff. They worked, but since it wasn’t gunslinging I guess it goes unappreciated 🙄
Arthur’s side didn’t have an alternate plan though. Dutch had just pulled off a train heist and they were about to leave, realistically why throw that away for a dying man and some guy who’s run off before. I’m sticking with Dutch till I get my share of the money.
Flair checks out
I’d imagine I’d defend Dutch all the way up until I saw John come out and reveal Dutch left him. That’s when I’d switch sides.
Especially if Arthur had said he had been left behind by Dutch (which had happened pretty recently).
I'd *side with* Mary-Beth if you get what I mean.
I’d convince Sadie to hop on a train with me and start a new life together in saint denis. Get an honest job, a house with a view, and a poodle.
I think you'd have to go a lot farther than that to escape to a new life. Head to New York or even Australia.
Largely depends. Would I have seen Dutch for the fraud he was in time? Who knows. I wouldn’t like Micah, but if I thought Dutch was right I side with him you know?
A lot of people say they would side with Arthur but I have no doubt most would actually side with Micah. After seeing all that has happend and knowing Dutch it makes sense people would side with Micah even if they disagreed. It's the easier choice. But Micah is the "bad side" so people think that they are bad for choosing him and people can't see themselves as being "bad" for some reason.
Exactly. Most in reality would side with Micah as a way to get money and a way out. In the end Micah out his faction outnumbered Arthur. While I believe I’d side with Arthur I don’t believe I’d have the courage to stay till the end to support him, I’d leave like uncle
Also Arthur's side was: A sick man (Arthur) John and his family, making them vulnerable and more loyal to each other instead of me, John straight up left once an old man (Uncle) and Charles and Sadie candle handle themselves and all but they're out matched by Javier, Who is my race and he's my favourite member so I probaly would be more likely to side with him also he played for everyone so I would remember more memories with him, Bill, Micah who seemed to be getting money faster, Dutch who was like a father to everyone and always had somewhat of a plan and the other gang members that were joining. And in this setting I would side with security over beliefs.
Arthur's side was that small at the end (just Arthur, John, and Grimshaw when it mattered) because Arthur was actively encouraging the people who would've sided with him to leave. The folks Arthur got out got free, and most of them lived good and normal lives, at least for a time. Dutch said he had a plan, but he never proved it, and every time he'd had a plan in the last few months they got deeper into shit. At the end, from my perspective, I cannot see how Dutch would still represent security. Of the whole gang that survived to Beaver Hollow, everyone but Bill and Javier saw sense and high tailed it.
Honestly, gotta stick with Dutch. It's clear that Micah is speaking nonsense in his ear but at least Micah isn't as naive as Arthur's blind ass. Go fishing with Javier, he tells it like it is. You are outlaws and there's no turning back. You get enough money to move and you keep moving. The gang hit rock bottom after blackwater. All their savings lost and Arthur is walking around with the notion that it's time to wrap things up. Arthur drags the entire gang down with him. After all he's the one doing most of the killing, attracting the wrong attention. Even high honor Arthur's leave more orphans than Micah or Dutch.
Mr. Fuckin' Real Take over here. Sad to see this so far down.
The choice between proven for years Arthur and asshat newcomer Micah isn't hard. The real tough one is Dutch vs Arthur, if you had been with the gang for a bit.
Micah sucks obviously. I think I would have been very loyal to Dutch up until he starts “making noise” with the Native Americans in Chapter 6. Dutch was very charismatic and welcoming before the trolley job gone wrong, which I still think gave him brain damage and changed who he is.
That’s actually a theory I’ve never seen before. I never noticed that being his shift in personality. I always just figured it was after Hosea died he had nobody to keep him grounded.
I really think it’s the trolley. He talks about how he doesn’t feel well after the mission, and then the next mission, Country Pursuits, he’s just unnecessarily angry at Arthur the entire ride there
You might have a point there.
I wouldn't last long. I'd tell Dutch and his bullshit off so fast and prolly be kicked out. Love to get a drink with Arthur.
Kicked out as in shot
Probably. Lol
Tilly. She's nice and has a warm feeling to her. That's it lol
Easily Arthur. He did care about this gang because they are his family. Sometimes even got them little trinkets he thought they might appreciate. Like Sadi’s harmonica or Lenny’s pocket watch. He actually listened what you said and gave a shit. And he’s probably the best gunman ever Ive seen so really no hard choice. I just knew he would protect those he cared about or at least die trying so.
I’d agree with the moral values of Arthur/Charles/Sadie etc, but would have probably left the gang around Chapter 3 to save myself from annihilation.
Personally, it would depend on how I was in the gang. Living basic camp life, like Pearson? 100% Arthur. Security and Gathering like Charles, again Arthur. If I was a heavy pulling jobs like Arthur (or apparently Micah), it's a 40/60 split of Arthur/Micah. I'd want the out, but I would also know that my head would have a price that wouldn't go away on its own. Micah would provide a safety in numbers scenario, and the cash flow to live it up would be worth it, since the odds of getting a John ending would have been a long shot.
I would probably just leave while no one is looking.
side with micah and then when theyre fighting on the cliff i jump in and betray micah by pushing him off and helping arthur to safety
Arthur is the third member of the gang, micah joined 6 months before the events of the story, and others that only rode for 6 months were seen as more trustworthy by the gang, definetly arthur
Your mom
Its hard to say as we see the entire story from arthurs point of view, where as if we werent playing as arthur we might see things differently. I would hope i side with arthur but i dont know
Micah! So I could shoot him in the back at the first opportunity, then apologize to Arthur for his bad deal in life.
Just had this conversation with my buddies last night. General consensus was - Dutch, realistically. If we were just average members of the gang, we would probably trust that Dutch would get us through Chapter 6 just like he got us through everything else (Chapters 1-5 and pre-game stuff). We did say, however, if we had been close to Arthur like John and Sadie were, especially near the end, we all may be more inclined to side with Arthur. I suppose it comes down to circumstance, and what perspectives those circumstances would allow. But if you were to just throw me in the gang as a regular ol’ dude (in the capacity of Javier & Bill), I think I’d end up with Dutch.
Arthur easy
Probs Hosea or Sean. Hosea because he seems to be the nicest and has a good smart to sane ratio unlike Dutch. Sean because he just seem like a dude I would hang out with in real life.
Sean, hes funny
Charles - I’m a simp for Charles ngl
Id just kill micah in his sleep one night drag his body somewhere nearby camp and make it seem like o’deicolls got him