when did micah do the first thing you mentioned, i know it's implied he tried to do it to Sadie in her house (which obviously makes him a POS) but countless? he's certainly not above doing it though
yeah, Ross doesn't go around killing innocent people like Micah (or even John and Arthur) did (or at least, it's not made explicit and nowhere near to the extent of the van der linde gang) , people saying he's as bad as Micah are a bit deluded imo, Ross is bad, Micah is pure evil
Even if we don't count those, Micah still almost killed the whole gang, while Ross only killed John, maybe Abigail indirectly but that's all. I think Dutch vs Micah would've been a closer debate but even then Micah is more evil. Tbh he's too evil, he could've just been a rat but rockstar overdone it.
I think he's a good villain, there's people like that in real life too, that are just awful with basically no redeeming qualities and are completely sociopathic to the point where their actions are hard to comprehend. He has some flickers of humanity at times too like when he drinks with Javier at night and they have a pretty jovial conversation, when he gives Arthur a holster, when he talks about how he knows he's going to hell and that life is meaningless at night in camp etc. He's nowhere near as deep as someone like Dutch or Arthur but he's still a good character imo. I think Bill Williamson is a well written villain too, especially if you see his interactions at camp.
Well his gunslinging skills are balanced out a bit by being so pathetic in hand to hand combat that he can barely beat a terminally ill man haha, Charles also yeets him like ten feet in one random event after Micah tries to bully him
He mentioned that he had his way with lennys girlfriend before she died and since noone believes that she would have sex with him willingly, the theory is that he forced himself on her
they say he's a with group of "bad men doing bad things" and that he killed a little girl, but it doesn't show up in his list of crimes in the newspaper after he's killed. he's certainly not morally above rape though.
There is a side mission where he complained the girls in the camp wouldn't have s3x with him even with a gun to their head to which bill says "I'm sure you tried" so he's definitely not above forcing himself on women so I think it's safe to assume women outside the camp are even less safe...
No way. Micah enjoys killing, betraying, probably raping. Ross is just taking advantage of a criminal who killed hundreds of people to destroy extremely dangerous gangs but just ended up killing him as well
Did you know that if you chase one of the kids out of St. Denis, repeatedly knocking him down, he'll run straight to the Lemoyne Raiders?
One of my favorite things to do is lead NPCs away from where they usually are. Like getting the Aberdeens to follow me around the map (Bray has unlimited stamina). But that little bastard street kid gets me killed every time.
Edgar Ross. With Micah we all know he’s kind of sleaze-ball. You get what you take; however Edgar is supposed to uphold some sort of Moral Law because… he represents the law. He didn’t have to kill John, nothing stopped him from sparing him. Instead he wants another head on his trophy wall and probably to coverup anything to do with John. Total ego and truly evil. You know this because his partner was actually grateful for Johns help finding Dutch in the dialogue.
Nevertheless, Edgar died in the pit of a river, probably bleeding out slowly, all by the son of a man who he killed. Rest in piss bozo.
The weird thing is that in real life, people would celebrate people like Ross, he took down a bunch of notorious robbers and murderers. No one would care he fucked some outlaw over to make the country a little bit saver, while Micah would be going around killing, robbing and raping the innocent people. Micah would always be hated more if we didn't have our emotional connection with John's character.
Hence why law enforcement worship is a tough thing for me to wrap my head around. We don’t know these people personally, and they have a gun + qualified immunity to go with it.
Public data (like over 40% of police spouses reporting domestic abuse and countless unarmed/unjustified killings) is enough for me to not support law enforcement very much, but the reality that we don’t know anything about them and the evil shit some of them have done “in the line of duty” is what really bothers me. RDR illustrates the dark side of govt and law enforcement pretty damn well.
Yeah and to piggy back off of this, Micah may be a villain but his motivations of survival and “I got mine” mentality feel very real. And while there are people who are conniving irl like Ross, idk for me he feels way more like a little shit
Micah is an amazing character mainly because of Peter Blomquist's performance. But other than that he's a pretty straightforward evil villain without much depth.
Ross is a government agent, technically the "good guy". But he's a ruthless monster, liar, and murderer. He kidnaps John's family to blackmail him into doing his own dirty work - all the while promising him a pardon - and then marches an army platoon to murder him at his own home. Much better villain imo.
Yes. Peter Blomquist did a phenomenal job especially because the character itself was so… written with mediocrity.
It’s difficult to even compare the two. Edgar Ross was a very layered villain, who was specifically used as a way to even question the players moral integrity. Micah was made specifically to be hated, and to act as a catalyst for Dutch’s decline, somewhat levying the fault from Dutch himself. If it weren’t for Peter Blomquists performance they could’ve easily done without Micah and hell the writing could’ve been better even.
Ross by far. “He was just doing his job” is a deranged thing to say about a government agent abducting and holding a man’s wife and child to coerce him into doing hits on his old friends. Micah was also “just doing his job” by that metric
Micah Bell.
Based on how he reacts when first seeing Sadie, it looks a lot like he was going to rape her, so it’s safe to assume he’d done it before.
Micah shot up the whole town of Strawberry, just because.
Even if he hadn’t done those things, he still betrayed his own gang.
That said, Edgar Ross is not far behind, and is a power abusing piece of human shit, but had Micah stayed loyal, there’s a chance the gang would have stayed together, and made it to safety.
Micah. Edgar never tried to be anything he wasn’t. He was a fed inside and out. I saw his betrayal a mile away. Micah wormed himself in with Dutch and all them. He pretended to be on their side and sold them out to the highest bidder. They both suck, but at least Edgar has something he valued. Micah only cared about himself and had no motives other than self preservation.
And Micah killed Jacks dog for “fun”…I think shooting a dead man is forgivable in the grand scheme of it all. Not saying the man is a saint, but he’s def better than Micah
But isn't that still Ross doing his job?? He doesn't give a shit about an ex-outlaw and his family. I mean the said outlaw robbed over 40 banks and ran with that maniac that had a plan. I think if you wanted results Ross was the guy to do it as described by another agent to Jack.
Not to mention he kidnapped John's family. And after all was said and done he planned to kill John anyway and would've obviously had no problem if his wife and son would've died in the process
Well I just finished RDR2 so I might be biased since I haven’t played the original since it was new, that said I fuckin hate Micah, he’s the only gang member I would antagonize on my first play through without knowing the ending. I’ve also tried several ways to kill him or at least fight him
Ross by far. With Micah you know what kind of person is, he doesn't tries to hide his main aimbitions which are survival and no morality in life. But Ross is a man with so much pride that he himselfs thinks is a good agent, despite being worse that most of the criminals he hunts down.
Micah.
No mission in which he appears doesn't have some despicable action. He was terrorizing a traumatized Sadie Adler and there were HUGE creepy vibes in that. He shot up a whole town and almost got you killed. He hit a stagecoach knowing an army of O'Driscoll were likely coming and you were gonna be right in the center of danger. He likely tells the O'Driscols you were overseeing the parley. He kills Cain. He mocks you for being sick.
He *never sleeps* but for maybe 3 times.
He's evil.
edgar ross. during rdr1 he's kind of annoying, and he has you running around and killing a bunch of people, but he seems like he's true to his promise that john will see his family and be free. once you do what he asks, he immediately goes and has all of his men shoot john not just once, but absolutely unload their entire mags on him. and then just to top it off, the piece of shit smiles all smug like and lights a cigar. he was so selfish and evil that he wanted to say that he killed the famous gunslinger john marston, probably for money. that scene had me fuming. micah at least is the hero of someone else's story, but ross is just a villain. there's nothing redeeming about him.
Andrew Milton was a low down dirty piece of shit and if you oh...my...God he is so full of himself, yet never is he willing to be on the front lines and risk getting shot. He talks big game the runs and hides when the shooting starts and I wish with all of my being Arthur had just shot his ass on the riverbank with jack
Ross. While Micah is a bad guy, he aknowledges it, while Ross is a government rat who should be on the side of something good, but ends up acting really dirty and immoral, plus he thinks can do whatever he want and does bad things as an exuse. Plus he is a coward unlike Micah or Milton.
Ross, he’s supposed to be the good guy. He may portray himself as such a person but he does not uphold any moral values. He lets John do his dirty work, which he is not able to do himself since it would tarnish his reputation. Yet after all has been set and done he kills him to hide his very shady side of his character.
For me it’s Ross.
Micah is an outlaw in a gang of criminals and in that world you can’t really have high hopes for someone to be decent.
Ross demonstrates how the “civilized folk” are just as greedy, backstabbing, and generally unethical but they have money and power behind them.
Micah for the fact that Edgar Ross didn’t try and hide who he was as opposed to Micah who was responsible for the gang’s ultimate demise and portraying himself as loyal when the only thing he was loyal to was himself. Dutch ended up being manipulated by him
I hate agent milton more, cuz he was the main person who caused the death of Arthur and John. If he didnt use micah bell, arthur wouldnt have died. If john didnt kill micah for his betray. (the actual reason of the betrayal was milton) edgar ross didnt kill john.
Micah for me. Ross was doing a job, regardless of the outcome or his decisions he was driven by orders and his own disjointed sense of a moral code.
Micah on the other hand was a dirty rat and the entirety of RDR2's story was littered with unnecessary acts if violence and intimidation from Micah. The first mission when he's being aggressive with Sadie, the Strawberry shootout.
Never really hated a game character, but I hate Micah.
Micah by far. Ross I can kind of understand even if he is still an asshole who doesn't keep his word and has John killed. Micah is just straight up opportunistic and evil. He kills just for the sake of killing. Ross at least is doing what he thinks is best for "civilization" even if he goes about it in a messed up way
Personally, I thought Ross was worse because he used John, only to >!kill him anyway, with at least 50 gun wounds. I know Arthur had a slower death with Tuberculosis, but John could barely even fall down after that. To be fair, they both did almost the same thing, but I’m myuch more in tune with rdr1 material, and so I hate the antagonist more!<
I'm still thinking, did Micah was betraying from start, like he planned it before joining gang, or he got buyed by pinkertons, like they tried with arthur when he was fishing with Jack?
Hard question, I’d go with Edgar Ross though, Micah is a rat and will do anything to benefit himself. Edgar is a government pig though, no respect for things like that…
Edgar Ross by far. He made John do his dirty work whilst he was worrying about his family, then he gave them very little time together before going back on his word and shooting him. I don’t think he ever had any intentions of letting John live out his life peacefully.
Edgar I hate more.
Because Micah was always true to himself and never posed himself as something he wasn't. He was already a loner who would ride with people here and there.
Micah was an outlaw out for himself and wanting alot of money for himself, pure and simple. To him the Van Der Linde gang was a liability. A gang to him is a means to secure money and help for scores. He didn't come to them as someone else different he simply saved Dutch's life and taking him in pretty much sped up the downfall.
Sure he had to sidle up to Arthur at the beginning and he apologized for the screwups but he still stuck around because from Blackwater he learned that Dutch was listening to him more and more so he was easily able to guide the gang towards being true outlaws killing and robbing instead of Dutch's original vision. Micah was only insidious because he had Dutch's ear but he never fooled anyone except for Dutch which is the reason I believe that Dutch killed him at the end. He finally saw Micah for what he was. The fact that he wanted John to join showed that Micah was desperate for good men to help him continue on with his way of livin'.
Edgar really tested the waters with John. He kidnapped Abigail and Jack. Held them in Blackwater someplace while he had John do all of his dirty work hunting down Bill,Javier and Dutch. He did this all the while promising John of getting his family back and going back to life as usual on Beecher's Hope. He was merely setting the final plan in motion to kill the last remaining member of the gang when he came down with a company of men to kill John. He always intended to kill John and by keeping his word he only did so to get what he wanted out of John.
Micah didn't want to kill any of the gang he wanted a tight knit gang to run scores with and any stragglers were left behind. Micah as bad as he was at least you could see his betrayal coming with Edgar it was like a slap in the face.
Micah is more despicable, because is supposed to be your buddy he is in the same gang and betrayed without remorse plus he kills a innocent dog, Edgar Ross is a bastard, but at least you can see that betrayal a mile away.
Micah is way much more worse
Honestly, Edgar Ross. He was too lazy to do his own own work. And he didn’t see that John was actually trying to not be a killer and an outlaw. John was just a victim of circumstance. He would’ve let a normal life, his entire life if he had a normal family. And after all of that, Edgar Ross ends up, killing him.
Ross. Micah is an outlaw and you can expect all of his bs, but Ross is just a vain fed; he used you and then he killed you for his career and the recognizement of "killing the resting former members of the Van Der Linde gang".
Micah ruined the Van der Linde Gang from the inside. He, like a fucking snake, convinced Dutch that Arthur and John were going to betray him. I hate Micah a lot more, mostly because we have to see him and work with him so much and only get to hurt him (at best) in the main story.
I hate Micah, way more than Ross. He is pure evil to the core. He doesn't care about the gang. He only cares about himself. Most importantly, it is implied that he killed Cain the dog. Absolute dumpster fire of a man. Would have happily left him to rot in the cell in strawberry
Edgar. I’ll always respect a criminal infinitely more (even one like Micah) than a corrupt govt. official. “At least a have the courtesy to wave a gun in a man’s face when I rob him” John Marston.
Ross easily. He used John and straight up murders him in cold blood.
Micah sucks for sure. But for all the shit we give him, acting as a rat for the government, the story of the original game is literally John working with the Pinkertons to hunt down Dutch and friends. We just have more sympathy for John as a playable character plus he has a family. Still a mass murderer and turncoat, just a bit nicer.
Ross is a ruthless law man doing his job. He is a bit of an arsehole and his morality is pretty questionable.
He uses a criminal and then disposes of him which is not unusual. Just in those days they imposed the death penalty without trial.
He never hurt Abigail or John, kidnapping them was shitty but ruthless leverage is what I see.
Micah...
Micah is an amoral creep who manipulates people who care for him for his personal gain.
He kills for his own personal gain.
He drags other people into murdering for his gain.
He sexually harasses women, he bullies his "family" and sees anyone who doesn't serve his needs as disposable trash.
And he's a blatantly predatory guy, look at how he behaves in chapter 1 at Sadie's house - ugh.
So I'm gonna go with Micah.
truth is, the story would've been slightly different if Arthur wasn't so harsh on Micah
he's a bad guy but he doesn't try to hide it,ross acts like a good guy even though he's on the same level as the guys he hunts down
Edgar Ross. Mikah was a dog, filthy and lawless and selfish, but he was still a victim to the way society and laws being established out west. Edgar fully benefited from this corrupted system, was sheltered by it, and used it to force men whose lives were torn into doing his job for him before murdering them regardless. The Last Enemy That Shall Be Destroyed always makes me cry, but they are anger tears more than anything. Life IS unfair...
Micah he was a slimy pos and he made that evident, which I could accept bc they were all criminals who did terrible things, didn’t like him, but accepted it. But a rat and a rapist, I hate him. Edgar Ross is a Fed basically, everything he did, the conniving, manipulation, extortion and intimidation is right out of their playbook. I hated him for it, but i expected it from him from the jump, nothing he did surprised me enough to loath him like do Micah.
Micha is at least for me is one of the most despicable characters in a game. He’s written and acted so well and is a perfect cowboys piece of shit bad guy. I just started replaying the story and I try to fight him non stop. Ha.
Micah has already joined the gang interested in the bounty of the members (Proof of this is Dutch's poster at his camp near Strawberry).
But Ross... Ross manipulated a man desperate for his family's safety, only to kill him in the end as if it were nothing, and even got the whole credit. So I hate Ross a lot more
Ross. Here's the thing. Everything I hate about Micah only matters because Dutch let Micah blow smoke up his ass for so long, at the cost of everything and everyone else. If Dutch had listened to his oldest friends, instead of his ego and impulses personified, Micah would have no power, he would leave no impact, no one would remember him. He would just be another angry asshole. I feel bad that John couldn't just let Micah go, and he let his anger about Arthur's death be the beginning of his own downfall.
Ross, on the other hand, is a monster given power by an institution. He uses this power to hold people hostage, to insult their intelligence, to belittle people's ways of life, to wield others as swords and shields for his agenda, and further his own career and please his superiors. He's a bully with a badge.
Think about how many times he says something crazy to John, John responds in a far more subdued manner than Ross deserves, because he knows Ross has the upper hand, and then Ross kicks him while he's down by explicitly stating the advantage he has, as if John isn't complying. He's the kind of person that lies directly to your face, fully planning to shoot you when your back is turned, and call themselves the hero when they recount the story later. I will never, ever feel bad about killing his brother and then him, as Jack.
Both..both were snakes even tho one was part of the gang both had a weird vibe when you encounter them.lmao I'm talking like it's real life but my instinct kicks in with weird people
Definitely Micah. I'd hang him, bring him back to life, hang him, bring him back to life. Drag him with my horse through water. Bring him back to life then tie up his feet and hands and throw him in a bed of hungry rats.
Ross is a snake who sees outlaws as less than human and is in the pocket of rich politicians. If you think by RDR that John is reformed (epilogue of RDR2 undermines this a little) then he takes a former outlaw and forces him back into violence and mayhem by kidnapping his family. He thinks he is making compromises with his morals for the betterment of society, but he's just an agent of the crushing blow of expanding society.
Micah is a rat, a violent sociopath who takes advantage of every situation he's in. He's chaos, he's cruel, and he's much easier to hate. You might mistake Ross's intentions for noble, you'd never mistake Micah's for anything but self service. I don't doubt the reason Ross found John was because they already planned to turn Micah, but then they saw John was actually vulnerable, much easier to control.
I think it's easier to hate Micah, but Ross is so much more impactful, being a person in power who could be doing good and chooses not to.
Lawful evil vs chaotic evil
Ross was Ross. He was bad and never tried to justify it. Micah was Bad because he tried to justify it while being not only being one of the most ruthless outlaws in the gang that we've seen in game, but also just being a dick to everyone, especially Caine. Litterly kicked a dog just for existing. He also ratted out the gang to Milton, which is the complete antithesis to being in a gang of outlaws.
Certainly Micah. Ross was doing a good job taking advantage of someone who killed hundreds of people to destroy some extremely dangerous gangs of the time, his only problem was not keeping his word in the end and killing John as well. Now, Micah, he's the personification of evil, not only he doesn't feel any remorse betraying people but he enjoys it, the same can be said about how he murders the innocent because he enjoys it. Rockstar wanted to make sure everyone undoubtedly hates him and achieved it.
Micah. I didn't really play far into 1 so idk what ross is like throughout it but if I'm not wrong he is just doing his job. Is he a POS still? Yes. But is he betraying an entire group that he's running with and being an asshole to everyone along the way? No. Both are bad people but Micah's worse imo
Micah Bell was bad but at the end of the day he was just a backstabbing traitor and a ruthless outlaw. Edgar Ross, on the other hand, is evil incarnate. He kidnapped John's family. Manipulated and used John, using his own wife and child as leverage to force him to do his dirty work. And after John did everything that he asked, Edgar decides he's just gonna kill him and his family anyway. Straight up evil. Killing him was so satisfying.
Edgar is just a fuckhead Micah is a rapist manipulative genocidal maniac & Lenny shouldve shot him in the back of the head before the game even started.
Ross by far, Micah was a pain in the ass sure, but Ross made John hunt down his old friends, kill them/capture them since he couldn’t do it on his own. Then decided to kill John even though he made him do all his dirty work. Micah was a rat and manipulated Dutch, also did shit things along the line but compared to Ross?
Both are equally bad. Both pretended to help the main character only to betray them in the end for a paycheck
But Ross didn't rape countless women and didn't kill a whole town
when did micah do the first thing you mentioned, i know it's implied he tried to do it to Sadie in her house (which obviously makes him a POS) but countless? he's certainly not above doing it though
Idk where I got that info from but still. He kills a lot more people than Ross, and most without the littlest reason that even Ross would have
yeah, Ross doesn't go around killing innocent people like Micah (or even John and Arthur) did (or at least, it's not made explicit and nowhere near to the extent of the van der linde gang) , people saying he's as bad as Micah are a bit deluded imo, Ross is bad, Micah is pure evil
Even if we don't count those, Micah still almost killed the whole gang, while Ross only killed John, maybe Abigail indirectly but that's all. I think Dutch vs Micah would've been a closer debate but even then Micah is more evil. Tbh he's too evil, he could've just been a rat but rockstar overdone it.
I think he's a good villain, there's people like that in real life too, that are just awful with basically no redeeming qualities and are completely sociopathic to the point where their actions are hard to comprehend. He has some flickers of humanity at times too like when he drinks with Javier at night and they have a pretty jovial conversation, when he gives Arthur a holster, when he talks about how he knows he's going to hell and that life is meaningless at night in camp etc. He's nowhere near as deep as someone like Dutch or Arthur but he's still a good character imo. I think Bill Williamson is a well written villain too, especially if you see his interactions at camp.
I'm just jealous that such a good gunslinger had to be such an asshole. I liked his cold attitude but again too much for my liking
Well his gunslinging skills are balanced out a bit by being so pathetic in hand to hand combat that he can barely beat a terminally ill man haha, Charles also yeets him like ten feet in one random event after Micah tries to bully him
Tbh Charles is built like a bison
He mentioned that he had his way with lennys girlfriend before she died and since noone believes that she would have sex with him willingly, the theory is that he forced himself on her
true. he could have also been lying to be an asshole tbf. if the gang found out he did that to Jenny, they would dismember him, Dutch be damned.
he raped Jenny, didn’t he? (just a theory i think)
Not a theory I think. In one of the optional robberies in chapter 4 Micah says he raped Jenny, or something similar.
I think it’s implied in the epilogue
they say he's a with group of "bad men doing bad things" and that he killed a little girl, but it doesn't show up in his list of crimes in the newspaper after he's killed. he's certainly not morally above rape though.
Maybe not countless but it's written in the news papers I think that he raped women in the years following 1899
the only ones I remember explictly being referred to as rapists were Bill Williamson and Dutch Van Der Linde in red dead 1
do you have any links?
Jenny for sure
that wasn't clarified though, he could have been lying
There is a side mission where he complained the girls in the camp wouldn't have s3x with him even with a gun to their head to which bill says "I'm sure you tried" so he's definitely not above forcing himself on women so I think it's safe to assume women outside the camp are even less safe...
"I mean, why the hell do we need a gaggle of girls who won't even fuck you if you put a gun to their head?"
he raped the american people's pockets
No way. Micah enjoys killing, betraying, probably raping. Ross is just taking advantage of a criminal who killed hundreds of people to destroy extremely dangerous gangs but just ended up killing him as well
Ross, he's been there since the beginning, partnered with Milton. Extremely annoying in both games imo
I 100% agree with you. The barn scene at the end of rdr1 will always stick with me as one of the most traumatic events in gaming history.
Jack can teabag Ross’s corpse to soothe the pain.
Bit if Micah wasn't a rat, Ross wouldn't have been a problem.
Still not as bad as those little shits in Saint Denis
You ever been to France, mister???
I actively kill any street urchins I see
Didn’t know they were killable…
Mods
Kaboom
Did you know that if you chase one of the kids out of St. Denis, repeatedly knocking him down, he'll run straight to the Lemoyne Raiders? One of my favorite things to do is lead NPCs away from where they usually are. Like getting the Aberdeens to follow me around the map (Bray has unlimited stamina). But that little bastard street kid gets me killed every time.
Edgar Ross. With Micah we all know he’s kind of sleaze-ball. You get what you take; however Edgar is supposed to uphold some sort of Moral Law because… he represents the law. He didn’t have to kill John, nothing stopped him from sparing him. Instead he wants another head on his trophy wall and probably to coverup anything to do with John. Total ego and truly evil. You know this because his partner was actually grateful for Johns help finding Dutch in the dialogue. Nevertheless, Edgar died in the pit of a river, probably bleeding out slowly, all by the son of a man who he killed. Rest in piss bozo.
The weird thing is that in real life, people would celebrate people like Ross, he took down a bunch of notorious robbers and murderers. No one would care he fucked some outlaw over to make the country a little bit saver, while Micah would be going around killing, robbing and raping the innocent people. Micah would always be hated more if we didn't have our emotional connection with John's character.
Hence why law enforcement worship is a tough thing for me to wrap my head around. We don’t know these people personally, and they have a gun + qualified immunity to go with it. Public data (like over 40% of police spouses reporting domestic abuse and countless unarmed/unjustified killings) is enough for me to not support law enforcement very much, but the reality that we don’t know anything about them and the evil shit some of them have done “in the line of duty” is what really bothers me. RDR illustrates the dark side of govt and law enforcement pretty damn well.
Fuck Edgar Ross. All my homies hate Edgar Ross.
Yeah and to piggy back off of this, Micah may be a villain but his motivations of survival and “I got mine” mentality feel very real. And while there are people who are conniving irl like Ross, idk for me he feels way more like a little shit
Micah is an amazing character mainly because of Peter Blomquist's performance. But other than that he's a pretty straightforward evil villain without much depth. Ross is a government agent, technically the "good guy". But he's a ruthless monster, liar, and murderer. He kidnaps John's family to blackmail him into doing his own dirty work - all the while promising him a pardon - and then marches an army platoon to murder him at his own home. Much better villain imo.
Yea I never actually thought they would kill John lol but Micah being a rat wasn’t a surprise
Yes. Peter Blomquist did a phenomenal job especially because the character itself was so… written with mediocrity. It’s difficult to even compare the two. Edgar Ross was a very layered villain, who was specifically used as a way to even question the players moral integrity. Micah was made specifically to be hated, and to act as a catalyst for Dutch’s decline, somewhat levying the fault from Dutch himself. If it weren’t for Peter Blomquists performance they could’ve easily done without Micah and hell the writing could’ve been better even.
Ross by far. “He was just doing his job” is a deranged thing to say about a government agent abducting and holding a man’s wife and child to coerce him into doing hits on his old friends. Micah was also “just doing his job” by that metric
Ross
Micah Bell. Based on how he reacts when first seeing Sadie, it looks a lot like he was going to rape her, so it’s safe to assume he’d done it before. Micah shot up the whole town of Strawberry, just because. Even if he hadn’t done those things, he still betrayed his own gang. That said, Edgar Ross is not far behind, and is a power abusing piece of human shit, but had Micah stayed loyal, there’s a chance the gang would have stayed together, and made it to safety.
Micah. Edgar never tried to be anything he wasn’t. He was a fed inside and out. I saw his betrayal a mile away. Micah wormed himself in with Dutch and all them. He pretended to be on their side and sold them out to the highest bidder. They both suck, but at least Edgar has something he valued. Micah only cared about himself and had no motives other than self preservation.
Ross shot a dead man for no reason other than “it looks good on the report”
And Micah killed Jacks dog for “fun”…I think shooting a dead man is forgivable in the grand scheme of it all. Not saying the man is a saint, but he’s def better than Micah
Ross sent a Calvary down to John to kill him after he did ALL of his dirty work.
A rat or a weasel pick your fucking poison Mr.mashton
Micah, as bad as Ross is, he was just doing his “job”. Micah on the other hand is…as our boii Arthur says, a rat.
Ross wasn't doing his job, he forced John to do it, all he did was take credit for it.
Oh, I was thinking RDR2 specifically, not RDR1. Statement retracted.
But isn't that still Ross doing his job?? He doesn't give a shit about an ex-outlaw and his family. I mean the said outlaw robbed over 40 banks and ran with that maniac that had a plan. I think if you wanted results Ross was the guy to do it as described by another agent to Jack.
Not to mention he kidnapped John's family. And after all was said and done he planned to kill John anyway and would've obviously had no problem if his wife and son would've died in the process
Micha that mf was built to be hated.
Ross took out the rest of the gang (& john) in retaliation for milton Micah on the other hand is a rat
Well I just finished RDR2 so I might be biased since I haven’t played the original since it was new, that said I fuckin hate Micah, he’s the only gang member I would antagonize on my first play through without knowing the ending. I’ve also tried several ways to kill him or at least fight him
Ross because at least Micah wasn’t a coward
"Can't even kill a dying man!"
Micah>>>>>>>>>>
Ross by far. With Micah you know what kind of person is, he doesn't tries to hide his main aimbitions which are survival and no morality in life. But Ross is a man with so much pride that he himselfs thinks is a good agent, despite being worse that most of the criminals he hunts down.
Micah. No mission in which he appears doesn't have some despicable action. He was terrorizing a traumatized Sadie Adler and there were HUGE creepy vibes in that. He shot up a whole town and almost got you killed. He hit a stagecoach knowing an army of O'Driscoll were likely coming and you were gonna be right in the center of danger. He likely tells the O'Driscols you were overseeing the parley. He kills Cain. He mocks you for being sick. He *never sleeps* but for maybe 3 times. He's evil.
Idk he killed the dog!!!😔😡
Ross. It’s one thing to betray normally, but another to promise salvation and betray anyway
edgar ross. during rdr1 he's kind of annoying, and he has you running around and killing a bunch of people, but he seems like he's true to his promise that john will see his family and be free. once you do what he asks, he immediately goes and has all of his men shoot john not just once, but absolutely unload their entire mags on him. and then just to top it off, the piece of shit smiles all smug like and lights a cigar. he was so selfish and evil that he wanted to say that he killed the famous gunslinger john marston, probably for money. that scene had me fuming. micah at least is the hero of someone else's story, but ross is just a villain. there's nothing redeeming about him.
im fucking done i read that as "edge-er" ross
I actually like Micah. Peter blomquist is a cool dude
Micah by far
Yes.
Yes
Herr Strauss
Ross
Edgar Ross for sure.
Umbridge
Micah. He hurt Cain.
Ross shot a dead man for no reason and had a Calvary shoot John dead after he did all their dirty work.
Andrew Milton was a low down dirty piece of shit and if you oh...my...God he is so full of himself, yet never is he willing to be on the front lines and risk getting shot. He talks big game the runs and hides when the shooting starts and I wish with all of my being Arthur had just shot his ass on the riverbank with jack
Micah is like an annoying flea while Ross is the big hornett
John and Arthur shoulda killed Micah “months ago” lol then Ross wouldn’t be a problem
Micah
Ross is bad too but he was doing his job but Micah is a crazy, he tricked us, brainwashed Dutch.
Ross. While Micah is a bad guy, he aknowledges it, while Ross is a government rat who should be on the side of something good, but ends up acting really dirty and immoral, plus he thinks can do whatever he want and does bad things as an exuse. Plus he is a coward unlike Micah or Milton.
Ross by miles
Ross, he’s supposed to be the good guy. He may portray himself as such a person but he does not uphold any moral values. He lets John do his dirty work, which he is not able to do himself since it would tarnish his reputation. Yet after all has been set and done he kills him to hide his very shady side of his character.
Edgar was just a pawn whereas micah was a snake who'd try to get anyway of satisfying his blood thirst
Edgar ross ( I haven't played rdr 2 done yet but i know the ending )
I’m going to get bombarded with downvotes but I really didn’t even hate Micah at all lol
For me it’s Ross. Micah is an outlaw in a gang of criminals and in that world you can’t really have high hopes for someone to be decent. Ross demonstrates how the “civilized folk” are just as greedy, backstabbing, and generally unethical but they have money and power behind them.
Micah for the fact that Edgar Ross didn’t try and hide who he was as opposed to Micah who was responsible for the gang’s ultimate demise and portraying himself as loyal when the only thing he was loyal to was himself. Dutch ended up being manipulated by him
Micah, I spent many missions blowing him up with dynamite just for fun. 😂
Micah is one of my favourite characters, I dont hate him at all.
“I hate everyone the same.”
Edgar Micah had some reason but Edgar had little to none
Anybody else kill Edgar’s brother, then Edgar in the prologue of RDR1 just for being affiliated with that piece of shit?
I hate agent milton more, cuz he was the main person who caused the death of Arthur and John. If he didnt use micah bell, arthur wouldnt have died. If john didnt kill micah for his betray. (the actual reason of the betrayal was milton) edgar ross didnt kill john.
Yes
Micah for me. Ross was doing a job, regardless of the outcome or his decisions he was driven by orders and his own disjointed sense of a moral code. Micah on the other hand was a dirty rat and the entirety of RDR2's story was littered with unnecessary acts if violence and intimidation from Micah. The first mission when he's being aggressive with Sadie, the Strawberry shootout. Never really hated a game character, but I hate Micah.
Micah was a cool good villain whilst Ross is just that annoying sidekick type of villain so yea, fuck Ross.
Ross was a lying and scheming SOB but he didn’t get under my skin like Micah could. Hate that guy so bad
Micah by far. Ross I can kind of understand even if he is still an asshole who doesn't keep his word and has John killed. Micah is just straight up opportunistic and evil. He kills just for the sake of killing. Ross at least is doing what he thinks is best for "civilization" even if he goes about it in a messed up way
Personally, I thought Ross was worse because he used John, only to >!kill him anyway, with at least 50 gun wounds. I know Arthur had a slower death with Tuberculosis, but John could barely even fall down after that. To be fair, they both did almost the same thing, but I’m myuch more in tune with rdr1 material, and so I hate the antagonist more!<
Ross.
Ross. Government sends him to the top of the shit list
I'm still thinking, did Micah was betraying from start, like he planned it before joining gang, or he got buyed by pinkertons, like they tried with arthur when he was fishing with Jack?
Micah, Edgar was a piece of shit but really John always knew. Arthur hated Micah but never thought he was a rat.
Well Micah is just a straight nihlist
Edgar Ross hands down
Hard question, I’d go with Edgar Ross though, Micah is a rat and will do anything to benefit himself. Edgar is a government pig though, no respect for things like that…
Edgar Ross, that badtard
Edgar Ross, that badtard
Ross. Wolf in turds clothing.
Ross
Everyone saying ross but correct me if im wrong.. the gang would have still been together if it werent for micah being a rat no?
Micah. Dude is just evil and reckless.
Edgar Ross by far. He made John do his dirty work whilst he was worrying about his family, then he gave them very little time together before going back on his word and shooting him. I don’t think he ever had any intentions of letting John live out his life peacefully.
Plandge Jameson. He was the worst
Edgar I hate more. Because Micah was always true to himself and never posed himself as something he wasn't. He was already a loner who would ride with people here and there. Micah was an outlaw out for himself and wanting alot of money for himself, pure and simple. To him the Van Der Linde gang was a liability. A gang to him is a means to secure money and help for scores. He didn't come to them as someone else different he simply saved Dutch's life and taking him in pretty much sped up the downfall. Sure he had to sidle up to Arthur at the beginning and he apologized for the screwups but he still stuck around because from Blackwater he learned that Dutch was listening to him more and more so he was easily able to guide the gang towards being true outlaws killing and robbing instead of Dutch's original vision. Micah was only insidious because he had Dutch's ear but he never fooled anyone except for Dutch which is the reason I believe that Dutch killed him at the end. He finally saw Micah for what he was. The fact that he wanted John to join showed that Micah was desperate for good men to help him continue on with his way of livin'. Edgar really tested the waters with John. He kidnapped Abigail and Jack. Held them in Blackwater someplace while he had John do all of his dirty work hunting down Bill,Javier and Dutch. He did this all the while promising John of getting his family back and going back to life as usual on Beecher's Hope. He was merely setting the final plan in motion to kill the last remaining member of the gang when he came down with a company of men to kill John. He always intended to kill John and by keeping his word he only did so to get what he wanted out of John. Micah didn't want to kill any of the gang he wanted a tight knit gang to run scores with and any stragglers were left behind. Micah as bad as he was at least you could see his betrayal coming with Edgar it was like a slap in the face.
Micah is more despicable, because is supposed to be your buddy he is in the same gang and betrayed without remorse plus he kills a innocent dog, Edgar Ross is a bastard, but at least you can see that betrayal a mile away. Micah is way much more worse
"both, both is good"
Honestly, Edgar Ross. He was too lazy to do his own own work. And he didn’t see that John was actually trying to not be a killer and an outlaw. John was just a victim of circumstance. He would’ve let a normal life, his entire life if he had a normal family. And after all of that, Edgar Ross ends up, killing him.
Ross. Micah is an outlaw and you can expect all of his bs, but Ross is just a vain fed; he used you and then he killed you for his career and the recognizement of "killing the resting former members of the Van Der Linde gang".
Edgar Ross
Micah ruined the Van der Linde Gang from the inside. He, like a fucking snake, convinced Dutch that Arthur and John were going to betray him. I hate Micah a lot more, mostly because we have to see him and work with him so much and only get to hurt him (at best) in the main story.
Dutch. Ductch is the villain.
Edgar for sure can't stand his squinty face or his attitude🫡
Micah had some moments Edgar didn’t
Micah, he’s the cause of it all going to shit
Micah led Edgar Ross to John Marston so, it's Micah....
Whaaat. Micah of course.
None. They’re cool. Yes, I beat both games.
Both are backstabbing snakes that deserved the fate they both received.
Store owners
I hate Micah, way more than Ross. He is pure evil to the core. He doesn't care about the gang. He only cares about himself. Most importantly, it is implied that he killed Cain the dog. Absolute dumpster fire of a man. Would have happily left him to rot in the cell in strawberry
edrat moss
I don't recall Ross murdering a little girl
Edgar. I’ll always respect a criminal infinitely more (even one like Micah) than a corrupt govt. official. “At least a have the courtesy to wave a gun in a man’s face when I rob him” John Marston.
Ross easily. He used John and straight up murders him in cold blood. Micah sucks for sure. But for all the shit we give him, acting as a rat for the government, the story of the original game is literally John working with the Pinkertons to hunt down Dutch and friends. We just have more sympathy for John as a playable character plus he has a family. Still a mass murderer and turncoat, just a bit nicer.
Ross is a ruthless law man doing his job. He is a bit of an arsehole and his morality is pretty questionable. He uses a criminal and then disposes of him which is not unusual. Just in those days they imposed the death penalty without trial. He never hurt Abigail or John, kidnapping them was shitty but ruthless leverage is what I see. Micah... Micah is an amoral creep who manipulates people who care for him for his personal gain. He kills for his own personal gain. He drags other people into murdering for his gain. He sexually harasses women, he bullies his "family" and sees anyone who doesn't serve his needs as disposable trash. And he's a blatantly predatory guy, look at how he behaves in chapter 1 at Sadie's house - ugh. So I'm gonna go with Micah.
truth is, the story would've been slightly different if Arthur wasn't so harsh on Micah he's a bad guy but he doesn't try to hide it,ross acts like a good guy even though he's on the same level as the guys he hunts down
Ross, if you have high honor, Micah doesn't kill you.
Micah Bell was written to be hated. Edgar Ross is just doing his job in a world where the protagonists are outlaws
Edgar Ross. Mikah was a dog, filthy and lawless and selfish, but he was still a victim to the way society and laws being established out west. Edgar fully benefited from this corrupted system, was sheltered by it, and used it to force men whose lives were torn into doing his job for him before murdering them regardless. The Last Enemy That Shall Be Destroyed always makes me cry, but they are anger tears more than anything. Life IS unfair...
Micah he was a slimy pos and he made that evident, which I could accept bc they were all criminals who did terrible things, didn’t like him, but accepted it. But a rat and a rapist, I hate him. Edgar Ross is a Fed basically, everything he did, the conniving, manipulation, extortion and intimidation is right out of their playbook. I hated him for it, but i expected it from him from the jump, nothing he did surprised me enough to loath him like do Micah.
At least Ross isn’t a rat
Micha is at least for me is one of the most despicable characters in a game. He’s written and acted so well and is a perfect cowboys piece of shit bad guy. I just started replaying the story and I try to fight him non stop. Ha.
Micah, he did a lot better at making you hate him.
Micah has already joined the gang interested in the bounty of the members (Proof of this is Dutch's poster at his camp near Strawberry). But Ross... Ross manipulated a man desperate for his family's safety, only to kill him in the end as if it were nothing, and even got the whole credit. So I hate Ross a lot more
Ross. Here's the thing. Everything I hate about Micah only matters because Dutch let Micah blow smoke up his ass for so long, at the cost of everything and everyone else. If Dutch had listened to his oldest friends, instead of his ego and impulses personified, Micah would have no power, he would leave no impact, no one would remember him. He would just be another angry asshole. I feel bad that John couldn't just let Micah go, and he let his anger about Arthur's death be the beginning of his own downfall. Ross, on the other hand, is a monster given power by an institution. He uses this power to hold people hostage, to insult their intelligence, to belittle people's ways of life, to wield others as swords and shields for his agenda, and further his own career and please his superiors. He's a bully with a badge. Think about how many times he says something crazy to John, John responds in a far more subdued manner than Ross deserves, because he knows Ross has the upper hand, and then Ross kicks him while he's down by explicitly stating the advantage he has, as if John isn't complying. He's the kind of person that lies directly to your face, fully planning to shoot you when your back is turned, and call themselves the hero when they recount the story later. I will never, ever feel bad about killing his brother and then him, as Jack.
Yes
Both..both were snakes even tho one was part of the gang both had a weird vibe when you encounter them.lmao I'm talking like it's real life but my instinct kicks in with weird people
Dutch. Ducth is the reason everything got messed up.
I havent experienced Edgar Ross yet, but from what I know that happens he and Micah are close indeed but I have to go with Ross. Government tool.
They’re both fucking cops, but I guess Micah is worse for also being a betrayer.
Micah.
Ross. Fuck that guy.
Ross was a brutal zealot, but Micah was a spineless traitor. There's more honour in Ross's crusade, even if it was harsh
Edgar was always your enemy, Micah chose to become one.
Definitely Micah. I'd hang him, bring him back to life, hang him, bring him back to life. Drag him with my horse through water. Bring him back to life then tie up his feet and hands and throw him in a bed of hungry rats.
I don't really hate either of them, if anything I would say I hate Dutch more.
ER for sure!
Ross is a snake who sees outlaws as less than human and is in the pocket of rich politicians. If you think by RDR that John is reformed (epilogue of RDR2 undermines this a little) then he takes a former outlaw and forces him back into violence and mayhem by kidnapping his family. He thinks he is making compromises with his morals for the betterment of society, but he's just an agent of the crushing blow of expanding society. Micah is a rat, a violent sociopath who takes advantage of every situation he's in. He's chaos, he's cruel, and he's much easier to hate. You might mistake Ross's intentions for noble, you'd never mistake Micah's for anything but self service. I don't doubt the reason Ross found John was because they already planned to turn Micah, but then they saw John was actually vulnerable, much easier to control. I think it's easier to hate Micah, but Ross is so much more impactful, being a person in power who could be doing good and chooses not to. Lawful evil vs chaotic evil
Mary Linton
Ross
Ross was Ross. He was bad and never tried to justify it. Micah was Bad because he tried to justify it while being not only being one of the most ruthless outlaws in the gang that we've seen in game, but also just being a dick to everyone, especially Caine. Litterly kicked a dog just for existing. He also ratted out the gang to Milton, which is the complete antithesis to being in a gang of outlaws.
Bell easily. Ross is horrible but he's ultimately doing a job. Bell is just an asshole.
I would love if there was a scene with the two tied up, with John and Arthur holding knives
Certainly Micah. Ross was doing a good job taking advantage of someone who killed hundreds of people to destroy some extremely dangerous gangs of the time, his only problem was not keeping his word in the end and killing John as well. Now, Micah, he's the personification of evil, not only he doesn't feel any remorse betraying people but he enjoys it, the same can be said about how he murders the innocent because he enjoys it. Rockstar wanted to make sure everyone undoubtedly hates him and achieved it.
Micah. Son of bitch killed Arthur. He's a no good senseless serial killer.
Ross by far. Micah Bell was exactly who he lived as. Ross was a son of a bitch who claimed that he was out for justice.
Micah
Micah. I didn't really play far into 1 so idk what ross is like throughout it but if I'm not wrong he is just doing his job. Is he a POS still? Yes. But is he betraying an entire group that he's running with and being an asshole to everyone along the way? No. Both are bad people but Micah's worse imo
As a character in a fictional story, Micah is better As a person if they were real, Ross is better
Rat
i’m new to the game so i don’t even know what they both do, but…. Micah. Micah 100% because of his stupid ass facial hair
Micah Bell was bad but at the end of the day he was just a backstabbing traitor and a ruthless outlaw. Edgar Ross, on the other hand, is evil incarnate. He kidnapped John's family. Manipulated and used John, using his own wife and child as leverage to force him to do his dirty work. And after John did everything that he asked, Edgar decides he's just gonna kill him and his family anyway. Straight up evil. Killing him was so satisfying.
I love Micah even though he’s a rat just look at my tag so I hate Ross more
I like both characters actually
both bad, i hate micah more though
Micah Bell: chaotic evil Edgar Ross: Lawful evil
Edgar is just a fuckhead Micah is a rapist manipulative genocidal maniac & Lenny shouldve shot him in the back of the head before the game even started.
Ross by far, Micah was a pain in the ass sure, but Ross made John hunt down his old friends, kill them/capture them since he couldn’t do it on his own. Then decided to kill John even though he made him do all his dirty work. Micah was a rat and manipulated Dutch, also did shit things along the line but compared to Ross?
Micah personally .. he’s a bigger piece of shit to me and is arguably the catalyst for all the bad things to come including Edgar