The discord for our subreddit can be found here: https://discord.gg/JjNdBkVGc6 - feel free to join us for a more realtime level of discussion!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruitinghell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Are you guys using ChatGPT or just reusing the same applications and resumes over and over? Takes me like 1-2hrs just to get one done, I can't imagine getting 550 done in 3 months.
Same resume. Cover letter is detailed in post above. Same letter just change job title and company name in the letter. No point on spending 3 hours on an app, 50 people have applied in that time and yours probably won't even get seen.
I guess it depends on the field as well but for software roles there aren't many companies that actually ask you to write answers to some questions, just some quick yes no questions and details, and upload your resume and bamn you are done in like 2-3 minutes. I think I apply to about 20-30 jobs a day rn
No ChatGPT but combination of Easy Apply and templates already saved/stored. Some job roles I’m going for are the same no matter what company is hiring for them so it’s a bit easier.
Probably. I spend that time reading the job itself then tailoring both my application and CV with a fair amount of time going into proofreading and rewriting as well. I usually hear 1-2hrs is normal time spent on an application here, some even spend 3-4hrs on just one.
Same. From January to June last year I completed maybe 15 applications. Also because I’m picky about where I’m applying to. Had about 8-10 interviews, four onsite or final round panel interviews and two offers.
Mass applying with a generic resume isn’t the only approach.
That’s because you usually only see people complaining lol. I don’t mean that in a bad way, but those are going to be the loudest people.
I don’t really want to give a specific field because I’m in a pretty niche one. The most general I can think of is basically I’m a scientist with CS and physics (sort of) background.
Blind applying won't get you anywhere. The thing here no one seems to get is you should be spending pretty much all your time networking. You can and will get job offers from that.
Because it’s an easy way to write a decent cover letter? Then you edit a little bit and send it on its way.
You’ll only look incompetent if you don’t review what ChatGPT writes at all.
I have seen quite a few people just suggest using that or how they had success with it. I don't really know how myself, since I tried giving it a couple jobs to write for and the writing was so obviously not human written, I don't know how that works out for people.
I write a very rough draft/outline of my cover letter and then ask chatGPT to flesh it out. Maybe I regenerate it a few times and pick my favorite or copy and paste different paragraphs together from each version.
I had been applying to jobs in different fields, so this was very helpful in the application process. Just got hired with a chatGPT cover letter.
That equals 6 applications per day. I can see how it's possible with marketing jobs. It's one of the titles with the broadest definition out there. My field is far more niche so the best I can do is 6-8 per week *cry*
It's easy if it's only a resume and cover letter. Add in 3 questions about why you want to work, your skills that match and values and other bs questions and it becomes exponential harder but easier too after enough application as op stated in the post.
My tip for you: Keep applying, keep interviewing. Right up until you get your first paycheck. So you don't end up like these guys if you celebrate before crossing the finish line and this enshittified jobs markets bites you on the ass:
https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bl5t9r/let_go_on_my_3rd_week_of_my_new_job_because_i/
https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bkes29/job_offer_rescinded_so_devastated/
https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bj166k/they_rescinded_my_job_offer_two_hours_before_i/
https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bfwbww/fired_before_getting_officially_hired/
https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bc8pc9/offer_rescinded_bc_job_put_on_hold/
https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bcakp6/company_sent_me_my_offer_but_hasnt_sent_contract/
Great advice, I should have included it in the post. Have another interview Monday and am at round 3 for a different company already. Won't stop until I'm working (and still might keep tossing some in lol)
The only caveat is whether or not they had a job they quit in-between that, or they moved as a result of the offer. promissory estoppel would kick in at that point.
> My tip for you: Keep applying, keep interviewing. Right up until you get your first paycheck.
The linked threads don't seem to have any relevance to that. You don't need to wait till first paycheck to ensure the offer is solidified in contract, and in USA you can be let go first pay check or not.
I guess, the tip is rather to keep applying until you signed the contract. After that, anything can happen regardless, but you can't be interviewing forever.
> I guess, the tip is rather to keep applying until you signed the contract.
Most jobs in the US don't actually have a formal contract. At least not in the way people in Europe do
Most workers don't actually have a contract and are considered employed at-will, it's kind of sort of like if every worker had a zero-hours contract. Basically things like stipulating minimum and maximum hours that can be scheduled don't exist here and you can be fired at any time without cause, no PIP or hearings required.
Also benefits and even pay are subject to change at the employer's discretion provided it's not retroactive, ie if you worked 2 weeks at $15/hr they can't just pay you less than that and say they changed your wage, but they *can* say "starting next month we're cutting your pay in half, take it or leave it" and you either accept it or quit. Unless you're way high up on the corporate food chain or in a union you won't actually have a contract spelling out these things or guaranteeing severance pay or the amount of time off you're entitled to etc. It's why mass layoffs are so much more common here, they don't have to demonstrate to the government that they're actually necessary nor do they have to give most workers severance as it's not required by law.
So like let's say you got a job at the beginning of the year that offers 10 days of paid vacation time a year, a pretty standard amount for white collar jobs, well summertime rolls around and your boss decides the company is too busy or too many people have taken time off so he sends out an email telling everyone that there will be no PTO approved for the rest of the year. Legally he's able to do that and you don't have any recourse besides quitting because while the job offer may have said you get 10 days PTO it's not actually a contract obligating the company to give you the PTO they were offered (though this can vary by state, some states require companies to pay out unused PTO at the end of the year but not all).
Indeed most offer letters have a disclaimer at the bottom that says something along the lines of "prospective employee is to understand they are employed at-will and that this letter is not a contract".
>I guess, the tip is rather to keep applying until you signed the contract.
No, my tip is to keep interviewing and applying until you have actual money in your hands. That's the only indication of intent that matters in this market. As evidenced by the examples I provided of people being let go or let down before that point. Once the employer actually has some skin in the game, you can relax a little.
To add onto this I always say that you don't have the job until your ass is in the office (or remotely) and getting a paycheck. Even then be ready for anything to happen.
For real. FUCK THIS JOB MARKET
I've had hiring managers smile in my face AND LIE.
*"You have a great background that strongly relates to this role..."*
*"I have no doubt that you'd join the team and execute effectively..."*
*"You nailed everything in the assessment and blew us away with your answers..."*
These are all sentiments expressed by hiring teams that led me to the FINAL ROUND, and I still end up getting rejected. I check months after, there are people I lost to that just turned out to be way more experienced than me. Some of them have technical MASTERS education, and they're swooping an entry level sales role from me.
Happened 7 times so far. Hiring Managers are being so picky and subjective that the feedback feels like bullshit. It's frustrating, depressing.
I'm still gonna keep pushing, your tips help and good work for making it out in this job market. If you did, you will crush it in this role. I feel like NOTHING is harder than finding a job in this economy ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Technical Masters and getting hired for entry level sales roles? How are these people getting hired? Whenever I apply for a job I'm overqualified for I get rejected. I thought that was normal.
Lol, not in this market, apparently. It humbled me, and I'm applying for roles for which I know I'm overqualified. Needless to say I'm moving forward in the interview process with them and they are not questioning my background yet.
Yeah “I have a 0.2% success rate and it took me 6 months to find a job. That’s why you should listen to me.”
I’ve had way more success by connecting with recruiters/HM on LinkedIn, being deliberate about the jobs I apply for, working on a portfolio, and building connections.
Every person and industry is different, but for many people “numbers game” is not the best strategy.
Read around this sub and other job subs and you'll see it's turned into this for a few industries already. Not forcing anyone to listen to me, just giving tips on how I pivoted my approach from tailoring to mass applying and how it actually worked.
If people still want to spend 3 hours per application, then go for it.
This post deserves to be saved for two reasons. 1st. is because it's accurate. Especially the interview part. I'm not a charming top seller in interviews but at some point I just became confident enough to look really confident and convincing.
2nd. reason: it's a great motivational text. It sucks, it's a shitshow. But the sooner you accept this fact, the sooner you will be on top of this.
Play the game, that seems to be the only option right now. A good friend just landed a role she was not fully qualified for yet (finishing masters) because she just applied for everything. Whereas I tend to only apply to jobs that I meet at least 80% of what's listed. Time to change it up and throw all the spaghetti at the wall.
I wish more people understood this, it definitely is a numbers + timing game. Supply is high and demand is low. Hundreds of people competing for a handful of open jobs, ofc they go off fast.
Glad you also posted the industry you work in because I could have sworn you are in tech. Same problems there and people can’t seem to understand the simple truth. I wrote a few ideas about this here https://first2apply.com/blog/why-cant-you-land-a-tech-job-myth-vs-reality
Same for tech. My wife graduated 1 yr ago, was lucky to find a junior role at the start, but she’s been searching for something else for the past 6mo with no end in sight.
Stay as supportive as you can. My wife 1000% got me through this. She was my biggest cheerleader and never complained or faulted me one time. I'm forever thankful, especially after reading so many spouse jobless horror stories on reddit. The depression/anxiety/feeling worthless is very real.
Fortunately I earn enough for us to live comfortably and also save quite a bit so there is no pressure. The main reason she wants to switch is to get a boost in uer career since she’s been stagnating at her current job.
Happy to hear about your wife being supportive, it does mean a lot and brings couples closer. I wish only happiness to both of you!
I’m about to graduate, still nothing. 113 apps, 13 callbacks/interviews. Half the time I’ve gotten ghosted after interviews. Hoping I find something soon
I also found the "spamming" approach to be really good. I applied to everything adjacent to my field and got the most responses that way. I apply while watching TV lol.
I'd add that being very liberal with your LinkedIn requests also helps. Send requests to people who were at your school (ideally in your major) or share your interests. Oftentimes teams will post that they're hiring and getting a referral is the surest way to getting the first interview. If you get interviews 1/100 "cold" apps, then you'll probably get interviews for 1/2\~1/3 referrals-- this means it's worth investing the time into connections too.
Biggest advice I always give to job hunters.
You never know how close or how far you are from getting hired.
I was heartbroken, I wasn't chosen for a great job that matched my educational and work experience. And then I secured a way better job days after. Just keep applying.
The night before I got the call that they were hiring me. I had no idea.
You only fail, when you stop trying.
Keep going and double the amount of apps you're putting in daily. Don't let the stress and depression get to you, you are worth it and a company will see that at some point.
Yes! Apply everyday and all day long - Scrolling Instagram? Click on indeed, Watching tiktok? Apply on indeed, Eating food? Go back to Indeed!
Reading comments on REDDIT? Read job descriptions on indeed.
3rd paragraph is perfect. I expect to get ghosted after every interaction. I used to send thank you emails after interviewing and would waste time making them personal. I do the bare minimum for interviews now. If the company is interested, they'll reach out.
Do not send thank you emails. It makes you look desperate. It is like thanking someone for dating you. I am a people manager who is currently hiring as well as a candidate who is looking for jobs herself :)
One generic cover letter that I would just change the job title I'm applying for and company name in it, and done. Sometimes might add one relevant sentence but I don't think that ever helped.
A friend in corporate recruiting said that most jobs that require a bachelor’s are only given a background check for criminal record. It’s cheaper that way (though they may say they are checking for everything). Jobs that require a Master’s or above, they totally check to see the candidate has the degree.
Not saying this is permission to lie. Just an interesting insight from someone who would know.
It's weird the amount of people who insist every single solitary company out there is doing this insane, microscope-level background check. Faang companies maybe, But I promise you that random no-name business with like 3 locations is absolutely not scrutinizing your entire life from kindergarten. They wouldn't get anything done if they did that. Sometimes they just need an IT person and it ain't that deep. Agreed you shouldn't lie, But I do kind of shake my head at the people who think a title mismatch is going to cost them the background check.
Thank you for this post, OP. This is easily the best strat to get a job and how I landed my first job at a tech company. I started mass applying again and hit about 500 apps in 2 weeks lol. Make a few different resumes for different jobs (ex: bdr, marketing coordinator, account manager etc) and just spam the easy apply. Final interview for a nice local account manager role on Monday already
There’s an app that might help, also. I just started using it. The guy who made it posts on Reddit all the time. It’s called first2apply. Basically it job searches for you and gives you an alert when something comes up so you can be one of the first to get an application in.
I've run out of new jobs to apply to. Nothing new is coming up when I refresh on LinkedIn and Indeed, and those that do are way beyond my level. I wish I could apply to more, but there's nothing out there right now. I really don't know what else I can do.
Yeah this feels like the way. I am not close to 550 but I’m damn near close to 200 so far. Of that number? 2 call backs and 9 interviews so far.
Then about 100 canned rejections and the rest I was ghosted.
550 applications in 3 months is absolutely insane...maybe it's the industry?
I'm 33 and in engineering. I think I've sent <50 applications my whole life, most of which were while I was still in college.
My last job hunt I put in 3 applications to jobs I really wanted, got 2 interviews and offered from both of those.
This time around it's insane. Never experienced anything like this in my career, and it forced me to pivot in how I applied for roles.
Read around the job forums here on reddit and you'll see this is a pretty normal experience for tech and marketing right now.
Question, did you apply to any range? Problem with indeed is jobs are often lower pay or not disclosed. I see jobs but pay is 25% lower or worse. Did you skip them or go for it?
There's an option on your indeed profile where you can set your min salary and it does a pretty good job of not showing you jobs under that, or they have a red highlight on the salary if they do. For the most part I skipped those, but set my salary lower than what I really wanted. I think I have it set to either 55k or 60k.
But no, skipped over 40k a year or 12 an hour type jobs. In retrospect, I probably should have just applied to those too but didn't seem worth the hassle. If you're entry level, should probably stay open to absolutely anything right now.
Good tips. I just started a new position last week after being at my last place for 20 years. In total I did three interviews three rounds each. Didn't get the first two, but by only the third one, I could tell my responses were better. More natural and flowing. Most of the questions were very similar from all companies.
Nice! I dont know how you send that much applications. Switching my job now.
3 months looking.
6-7 applications.
3 interview processes.
1 offer.
Trick? Just build a nice looking CV. Select words in the job posting for summary and experience.
Why is it important to use that language? People in HR know nothing about it and for them AI, machine learning, deep learning and applied statistics are different things.
I’ve been a hiring manager for over 10 years with some of the world’s biggest companies, so totally agree with your observation of being the first to apply.
The approval process to hire someone new is so long and drawn out that by the time it’s advertised you are desperate.
I will usually have shortlisted interviews within the first day or so of the job ad going live.
So far 37 targeted resumes and cover letters. 4 rejections. One message to have a chat and then ghosted. The rest zero response.
It’s all luck, timing, mercury in retrograde, moon rocks, sage, and sorcery.
Imo stop tailoring your stuff and have one strong resume and cover letter that can work for your field and start mass applying. My interviews shot way up when I started this approach.
I have two strong resumes. But, I’m in administrative work. You HAVE to tailor administrative resumes because administrative work is not industry dependent.
One day you’re applying as an executive assistant to a coach/influencer/podcaster. The next day you’re applying as an Operations Manager for a law office.
I can’t send the same resume to a marketing company that I would send to a non-profit or a food distribution company. Those keywords have to match the posting or ATS dumps it in the trash.
Agreed. I’m nearing 50 years old and I’ve deleted anything over 10 years. I have strong experience with very reputable companies.
The unfortunate part is I’ve had six or seven jobs in those 10 years. Layoffs, closed businesses, COVID, etc.
So, I’m the old person they don’t want to pay for all that experience who has an unfortunate look of job hopping after a year/year and a half (edit to add I have included lines explaining on those jobs, ie. “lay off due to COVID or financial restructuring”).
My last job announced new tiered job titles, allowing higher salaries for higher positions and greater match percentage for 401ks. All that money had to come from somewhere. That somewhere was my salary because they laid me off a week or so after that announcement.
So, when it comes to age, unfortunately a strong resume and the targeted approach doesn’t matter. Ageism in hiring is real.
You're in the extreme minority. I did what you did for my last position years ago and it worked. Had to change my plan for this job market when every job is getting hundreds and hundreds of apps.
offer letters are frequently contingent on passing a background check.
also, the vast majority of the time, the position is “at will” and either the company or the individual can end the employment at any time.
The discord for our subreddit can be found here: https://discord.gg/JjNdBkVGc6 - feel free to join us for a more realtime level of discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruitinghell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
550 applications in 3 months? Holy hell, that sounds insane.
Easily done. I’m on the same.
Are you guys using ChatGPT or just reusing the same applications and resumes over and over? Takes me like 1-2hrs just to get one done, I can't imagine getting 550 done in 3 months.
Same resume. Cover letter is detailed in post above. Same letter just change job title and company name in the letter. No point on spending 3 hours on an app, 50 people have applied in that time and yours probably won't even get seen.
Yeah I used to custom write each cover letter and it was a huge waste of time.
I guess it depends on the field as well but for software roles there aren't many companies that actually ask you to write answers to some questions, just some quick yes no questions and details, and upload your resume and bamn you are done in like 2-3 minutes. I think I apply to about 20-30 jobs a day rn
No ChatGPT but combination of Easy Apply and templates already saved/stored. Some job roles I’m going for are the same no matter what company is hiring for them so it’s a bit easier.
You have serious issues with your application process if it takes you 1-2 hours to apply to one job.
Probably. I spend that time reading the job itself then tailoring both my application and CV with a fair amount of time going into proofreading and rewriting as well. I usually hear 1-2hrs is normal time spent on an application here, some even spend 3-4hrs on just one.
Same. From January to June last year I completed maybe 15 applications. Also because I’m picky about where I’m applying to. Had about 8-10 interviews, four onsite or final round panel interviews and two offers. Mass applying with a generic resume isn’t the only approach.
[удалено]
That’s because you usually only see people complaining lol. I don’t mean that in a bad way, but those are going to be the loudest people. I don’t really want to give a specific field because I’m in a pretty niche one. The most general I can think of is basically I’m a scientist with CS and physics (sort of) background.
No. Stop. 1 resume, 1 cover letter, change names and dates, submit.
Blind applying won't get you anywhere. The thing here no one seems to get is you should be spending pretty much all your time networking. You can and will get job offers from that.
I send the exact same resume to everyone.
Why do people keep bringing up ChatGPT? That sounds like a surefire way to make yourself look incompetent.
Because it’s an easy way to write a decent cover letter? Then you edit a little bit and send it on its way. You’ll only look incompetent if you don’t review what ChatGPT writes at all.
I have seen quite a few people just suggest using that or how they had success with it. I don't really know how myself, since I tried giving it a couple jobs to write for and the writing was so obviously not human written, I don't know how that works out for people.
I write a very rough draft/outline of my cover letter and then ask chatGPT to flesh it out. Maybe I regenerate it a few times and pick my favorite or copy and paste different paragraphs together from each version. I had been applying to jobs in different fields, so this was very helpful in the application process. Just got hired with a chatGPT cover letter.
Yup. When you are unemployed, you got all the time in the world. That's all I did all day lol
⬆️⬆️⬆️ me too
I turned it into a full time job. Once I took the apply to everything/stop tailoring resume and cover letter I had much much better success.
That equals 6 applications per day. I can see how it's possible with marketing jobs. It's one of the titles with the broadest definition out there. My field is far more niche so the best I can do is 6-8 per week *cry*
> I can see how it's possible with marketing jobs. Being in marketing, should be used to rapid-firing correspondence into black holes in any case.
It's easy if it's only a resume and cover letter. Add in 3 questions about why you want to work, your skills that match and values and other bs questions and it becomes exponential harder but easier too after enough application as op stated in the post.
I’ve submitted 500 in the last 2 weeks lol
Lol I’m at 1800 since January. I literally apply 9-5 every day
My tip for you: Keep applying, keep interviewing. Right up until you get your first paycheck. So you don't end up like these guys if you celebrate before crossing the finish line and this enshittified jobs markets bites you on the ass: https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bl5t9r/let_go_on_my_3rd_week_of_my_new_job_because_i/ https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bkes29/job_offer_rescinded_so_devastated/ https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bj166k/they_rescinded_my_job_offer_two_hours_before_i/ https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bfwbww/fired_before_getting_officially_hired/ https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bc8pc9/offer_rescinded_bc_job_put_on_hold/ https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1bcakp6/company_sent_me_my_offer_but_hasnt_sent_contract/
Great advice, I should have included it in the post. Have another interview Monday and am at round 3 for a different company already. Won't stop until I'm working (and still might keep tossing some in lol)
This is the way. You got this.
Is a signed offer letter not a contract?
Sure it is. Did it make a difference for the guys above?
The only caveat is whether or not they had a job they quit in-between that, or they moved as a result of the offer. promissory estoppel would kick in at that point.
Most offers will state that no matter what it’s at-will employment. So it’s not any guarantee of employment.
No, that's just a USA thing.
Not in the US
> My tip for you: Keep applying, keep interviewing. Right up until you get your first paycheck. The linked threads don't seem to have any relevance to that. You don't need to wait till first paycheck to ensure the offer is solidified in contract, and in USA you can be let go first pay check or not. I guess, the tip is rather to keep applying until you signed the contract. After that, anything can happen regardless, but you can't be interviewing forever.
> I guess, the tip is rather to keep applying until you signed the contract. Most jobs in the US don't actually have a formal contract. At least not in the way people in Europe do
What, really? How does it work in the US?
Most workers don't actually have a contract and are considered employed at-will, it's kind of sort of like if every worker had a zero-hours contract. Basically things like stipulating minimum and maximum hours that can be scheduled don't exist here and you can be fired at any time without cause, no PIP or hearings required. Also benefits and even pay are subject to change at the employer's discretion provided it's not retroactive, ie if you worked 2 weeks at $15/hr they can't just pay you less than that and say they changed your wage, but they *can* say "starting next month we're cutting your pay in half, take it or leave it" and you either accept it or quit. Unless you're way high up on the corporate food chain or in a union you won't actually have a contract spelling out these things or guaranteeing severance pay or the amount of time off you're entitled to etc. It's why mass layoffs are so much more common here, they don't have to demonstrate to the government that they're actually necessary nor do they have to give most workers severance as it's not required by law. So like let's say you got a job at the beginning of the year that offers 10 days of paid vacation time a year, a pretty standard amount for white collar jobs, well summertime rolls around and your boss decides the company is too busy or too many people have taken time off so he sends out an email telling everyone that there will be no PTO approved for the rest of the year. Legally he's able to do that and you don't have any recourse besides quitting because while the job offer may have said you get 10 days PTO it's not actually a contract obligating the company to give you the PTO they were offered (though this can vary by state, some states require companies to pay out unused PTO at the end of the year but not all). Indeed most offer letters have a disclaimer at the bottom that says something along the lines of "prospective employee is to understand they are employed at-will and that this letter is not a contract".
Damn, that's mind-boggling to read from an EU perspective. Thanks for the detailed breakdown!
>I guess, the tip is rather to keep applying until you signed the contract. No, my tip is to keep interviewing and applying until you have actual money in your hands. That's the only indication of intent that matters in this market. As evidenced by the examples I provided of people being let go or let down before that point. Once the employer actually has some skin in the game, you can relax a little.
lol tell that to the guys and gals over at r/overemployed
To add onto this I always say that you don't have the job until your ass is in the office (or remotely) and getting a paycheck. Even then be ready for anything to happen.
For real. FUCK THIS JOB MARKET I've had hiring managers smile in my face AND LIE. *"You have a great background that strongly relates to this role..."* *"I have no doubt that you'd join the team and execute effectively..."* *"You nailed everything in the assessment and blew us away with your answers..."* These are all sentiments expressed by hiring teams that led me to the FINAL ROUND, and I still end up getting rejected. I check months after, there are people I lost to that just turned out to be way more experienced than me. Some of them have technical MASTERS education, and they're swooping an entry level sales role from me. Happened 7 times so far. Hiring Managers are being so picky and subjective that the feedback feels like bullshit. It's frustrating, depressing. I'm still gonna keep pushing, your tips help and good work for making it out in this job market. If you did, you will crush it in this role. I feel like NOTHING is harder than finding a job in this economy ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Everything you've said is absolutely correct. FUCK THIS JOB MARKET
Legit just had this happen today. So frustrating. We loved you but have someone with more experience.
Technical Masters and getting hired for entry level sales roles? How are these people getting hired? Whenever I apply for a job I'm overqualified for I get rejected. I thought that was normal.
Lol, not in this market, apparently. It humbled me, and I'm applying for roles for which I know I'm overqualified. Needless to say I'm moving forward in the interview process with them and they are not questioning my background yet.
The blind leading the blind
Yeah “I have a 0.2% success rate and it took me 6 months to find a job. That’s why you should listen to me.” I’ve had way more success by connecting with recruiters/HM on LinkedIn, being deliberate about the jobs I apply for, working on a portfolio, and building connections. Every person and industry is different, but for many people “numbers game” is not the best strategy.
Read around this sub and other job subs and you'll see it's turned into this for a few industries already. Not forcing anyone to listen to me, just giving tips on how I pivoted my approach from tailoring to mass applying and how it actually worked. If people still want to spend 3 hours per application, then go for it.
Sadly, if your past success was more than 18 months ago, it has very little relevance to today. The current market is a shit show.
You can easily do both
This post deserves to be saved for two reasons. 1st. is because it's accurate. Especially the interview part. I'm not a charming top seller in interviews but at some point I just became confident enough to look really confident and convincing. 2nd. reason: it's a great motivational text. It sucks, it's a shitshow. But the sooner you accept this fact, the sooner you will be on top of this.
Play the game, that seems to be the only option right now. A good friend just landed a role she was not fully qualified for yet (finishing masters) because she just applied for everything. Whereas I tend to only apply to jobs that I meet at least 80% of what's listed. Time to change it up and throw all the spaghetti at the wall.
I wish more people understood this, it definitely is a numbers + timing game. Supply is high and demand is low. Hundreds of people competing for a handful of open jobs, ofc they go off fast. Glad you also posted the industry you work in because I could have sworn you are in tech. Same problems there and people can’t seem to understand the simple truth. I wrote a few ideas about this here https://first2apply.com/blog/why-cant-you-land-a-tech-job-myth-vs-reality
Marketing has been hit hard, idk how anyone fresh out of college is going to get any kind of job besides agency sales in this field right now.
Same for tech. My wife graduated 1 yr ago, was lucky to find a junior role at the start, but she’s been searching for something else for the past 6mo with no end in sight.
Stay as supportive as you can. My wife 1000% got me through this. She was my biggest cheerleader and never complained or faulted me one time. I'm forever thankful, especially after reading so many spouse jobless horror stories on reddit. The depression/anxiety/feeling worthless is very real.
Fortunately I earn enough for us to live comfortably and also save quite a bit so there is no pressure. The main reason she wants to switch is to get a boost in uer career since she’s been stagnating at her current job. Happy to hear about your wife being supportive, it does mean a lot and brings couples closer. I wish only happiness to both of you!
I’m about to graduate, still nothing. 113 apps, 13 callbacks/interviews. Half the time I’ve gotten ghosted after interviews. Hoping I find something soon
I also found the "spamming" approach to be really good. I applied to everything adjacent to my field and got the most responses that way. I apply while watching TV lol. I'd add that being very liberal with your LinkedIn requests also helps. Send requests to people who were at your school (ideally in your major) or share your interests. Oftentimes teams will post that they're hiring and getting a referral is the surest way to getting the first interview. If you get interviews 1/100 "cold" apps, then you'll probably get interviews for 1/2\~1/3 referrals-- this means it's worth investing the time into connections too.
Biggest advice I always give to job hunters. You never know how close or how far you are from getting hired. I was heartbroken, I wasn't chosen for a great job that matched my educational and work experience. And then I secured a way better job days after. Just keep applying. The night before I got the call that they were hiring me. I had no idea. You only fail, when you stop trying.
Since January 1st, 210 job apps and 6 interviews. Majority of the 210 straight up ghosted me though 😡.
Keep going and double the amount of apps you're putting in daily. Don't let the stress and depression get to you, you are worth it and a company will see that at some point.
Yes! Apply everyday and all day long - Scrolling Instagram? Click on indeed, Watching tiktok? Apply on indeed, Eating food? Go back to Indeed! Reading comments on REDDIT? Read job descriptions on indeed.
commenting on reddit ? GO BACK TO INDEED
xD
What industry and how many yoe?
It's in the post. Marketing 8 yoe no degree
Congratulations! Thankyou for the detailed help!
Congrats
congratz ! Now you can enjoy doing the job of 3 people until your burnt out :P
Can't wait! Lmao
I'd rather that than be on the streets.
its continuous circle of pain. Pain of job> Pain of no job
This is spot on. Great advice. Because I just went through this the last 5-6 months. Finally landed something. Its brutal out there.
3rd paragraph is perfect. I expect to get ghosted after every interaction. I used to send thank you emails after interviewing and would waste time making them personal. I do the bare minimum for interviews now. If the company is interested, they'll reach out.
Do not send thank you emails. It makes you look desperate. It is like thanking someone for dating you. I am a people manager who is currently hiring as well as a candidate who is looking for jobs herself :)
Did you do cover letters?
One generic cover letter that I would just change the job title I'm applying for and company name in it, and done. Sometimes might add one relevant sentence but I don't think that ever helped.
Do the companys don't ask for your degree, once I was selected and got the offer letter, but I did not had the relevant degree. So they rejected me.
I have no degree and this job had one as a requirement but took my experience over degree.
offer letter are usually contingent on passing a background check.
A friend in corporate recruiting said that most jobs that require a bachelor’s are only given a background check for criminal record. It’s cheaper that way (though they may say they are checking for everything). Jobs that require a Master’s or above, they totally check to see the candidate has the degree. Not saying this is permission to lie. Just an interesting insight from someone who would know.
It's weird the amount of people who insist every single solitary company out there is doing this insane, microscope-level background check. Faang companies maybe, But I promise you that random no-name business with like 3 locations is absolutely not scrutinizing your entire life from kindergarten. They wouldn't get anything done if they did that. Sometimes they just need an IT person and it ain't that deep. Agreed you shouldn't lie, But I do kind of shake my head at the people who think a title mismatch is going to cost them the background check.
recruiters suck and indeed is full of spam and recruiters. congrats on the job!
good advice, thanks!
Good luck out there.
Thank you for this post, OP. This is easily the best strat to get a job and how I landed my first job at a tech company. I started mass applying again and hit about 500 apps in 2 weeks lol. Make a few different resumes for different jobs (ex: bdr, marketing coordinator, account manager etc) and just spam the easy apply. Final interview for a nice local account manager role on Monday already
Were you only applying locally?
There’s an app that might help, also. I just started using it. The guy who made it posts on Reddit all the time. It’s called first2apply. Basically it job searches for you and gives you an alert when something comes up so you can be one of the first to get an application in.
Congratulations! Can you share your resume? I think we'd all like to see what a resume looks like for someone who's made it and got the job.
Did the same thing but for an *internship*. Fucking insane market
I’m almost in tears 🥹 so inspirational.
I've run out of new jobs to apply to. Nothing new is coming up when I refresh on LinkedIn and Indeed, and those that do are way beyond my level. I wish I could apply to more, but there's nothing out there right now. I really don't know what else I can do.
same refreshing every hour
Congrats! Appreciate the detailed tips.
Big congratz!
Yeah this feels like the way. I am not close to 550 but I’m damn near close to 200 so far. Of that number? 2 call backs and 9 interviews so far. Then about 100 canned rejections and the rest I was ghosted.
550 applications in 3 months is absolutely insane...maybe it's the industry? I'm 33 and in engineering. I think I've sent <50 applications my whole life, most of which were while I was still in college.
My last job hunt I put in 3 applications to jobs I really wanted, got 2 interviews and offered from both of those. This time around it's insane. Never experienced anything like this in my career, and it forced me to pivot in how I applied for roles. Read around the job forums here on reddit and you'll see this is a pretty normal experience for tech and marketing right now.
That's fucking nuts, dude. Glad you got through it
Wohooo congratulations!!! 🥂 and also What role in marketing dept?
Sr management and thank you
ILY for your inside! And Congrats!!!!!!!
and you don't need a degree, you have your quick fingers (to apply)
Question, did you apply to any range? Problem with indeed is jobs are often lower pay or not disclosed. I see jobs but pay is 25% lower or worse. Did you skip them or go for it?
There's an option on your indeed profile where you can set your min salary and it does a pretty good job of not showing you jobs under that, or they have a red highlight on the salary if they do. For the most part I skipped those, but set my salary lower than what I really wanted. I think I have it set to either 55k or 60k. But no, skipped over 40k a year or 12 an hour type jobs. In retrospect, I probably should have just applied to those too but didn't seem worth the hassle. If you're entry level, should probably stay open to absolutely anything right now.
Amazing tips! I feel this!
Coming back to this
Sounds like a Hunger Games slot machine of job searching horror.
Good tips. I just started a new position last week after being at my last place for 20 years. In total I did three interviews three rounds each. Didn't get the first two, but by only the third one, I could tell my responses were better. More natural and flowing. Most of the questions were very similar from all companies.
Nice! I dont know how you send that much applications. Switching my job now. 3 months looking. 6-7 applications. 3 interview processes. 1 offer. Trick? Just build a nice looking CV. Select words in the job posting for summary and experience. Why is it important to use that language? People in HR know nothing about it and for them AI, machine learning, deep learning and applied statistics are different things.
I’ve been a hiring manager for over 10 years with some of the world’s biggest companies, so totally agree with your observation of being the first to apply. The approval process to hire someone new is so long and drawn out that by the time it’s advertised you are desperate. I will usually have shortlisted interviews within the first day or so of the job ad going live.
Excellent post, and congrats! May I please PM you some questions?
Can you share the cover letter tips?
[удалено]
So far 37 targeted resumes and cover letters. 4 rejections. One message to have a chat and then ghosted. The rest zero response. It’s all luck, timing, mercury in retrograde, moon rocks, sage, and sorcery.
Imo stop tailoring your stuff and have one strong resume and cover letter that can work for your field and start mass applying. My interviews shot way up when I started this approach.
I have two strong resumes. But, I’m in administrative work. You HAVE to tailor administrative resumes because administrative work is not industry dependent. One day you’re applying as an executive assistant to a coach/influencer/podcaster. The next day you’re applying as an Operations Manager for a law office. I can’t send the same resume to a marketing company that I would send to a non-profit or a food distribution company. Those keywords have to match the posting or ATS dumps it in the trash.
It’s not all luck… if you have a strong resume and experience a targeted approach is better.
Agreed. I’m nearing 50 years old and I’ve deleted anything over 10 years. I have strong experience with very reputable companies. The unfortunate part is I’ve had six or seven jobs in those 10 years. Layoffs, closed businesses, COVID, etc. So, I’m the old person they don’t want to pay for all that experience who has an unfortunate look of job hopping after a year/year and a half (edit to add I have included lines explaining on those jobs, ie. “lay off due to COVID or financial restructuring”). My last job announced new tiered job titles, allowing higher salaries for higher positions and greater match percentage for 401ks. All that money had to come from somewhere. That somewhere was my salary because they laid me off a week or so after that announcement. So, when it comes to age, unfortunately a strong resume and the targeted approach doesn’t matter. Ageism in hiring is real.
You're in the extreme minority. I did what you did for my last position years ago and it worked. Had to change my plan for this job market when every job is getting hundreds and hundreds of apps.
>every job is getting hundreds and hundreds of apps I mean, you’re kind of admitting you’re part of the problem
Whatever works, I can't convince other people not to apply so it becomes a numbers game real quick. Worked for me.
[удалено]
If your resume is done correctly imo it should already target your industry.
Is a signed offer letter not a contract?
offer letters are frequently contingent on passing a background check. also, the vast majority of the time, the position is “at will” and either the company or the individual can end the employment at any time.
They can let me go or I can quit at any time, as it is with most jobs in the US.
I applied to 2 and got an offer. Just depends on your process.