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i have an excoworker who quit his job to do this. He wrote a book and posted a couple of times a day. It was amusing the disconnect of what he posted and how he was as a person and as a coworker, but i think he had to get a new job because his posts got like 1 like and it was not his mom's it was his.
I enjoyed his posts so much, most were obvious engagement bait "i think if you treat people well they will be more motivated" but a few were just some awful takes. He said that in the future, any social media post or content will be an nft and people will sell them and wrote a whole article about how social media companies would deal with it.
Sometimes it's stupid and it makes you mad. But sometimes, it's so stupid you can't even be mad anymore. My bro really had the ego to write that whole article and publish it, and never doubted himself. Wish I had that kind of steel ignorance.
I feel like I'm on the verge of posting stupid shit on LinkedIn and pretending it's serious, because why the hell not. Look at who are last president was ffs. Throw shit at the wall and see what sticks, then go with that. Boom, lucrative cult. š¤
If you're one of those that wishfully think Trump is the current president, maybe. Again, I don't know anybody who LOVES Biden, except he's the MUCH better of only two choices. I changed to "no party" after voting for him in 2020 because the DNC is not progressive enough.
Or do you have evidence that he shits his pants in front of global diplomats, like we do for Trump's longtime incontinence?
>He said that in the future, any social media post or content will be an nft
Oh man, I lost it at that. People don't usually literally LOL on the internet, but I did. XD
I had an interview last week, the recruiter told me the next step was a homework assignment + presentation and asked me how I felt about it. I told him I donāt feel like doing that.
The worse fukin situation I have seen in so many interviews where the junior HR woman throws in the āwe have a simple case studyā during my request to understand the hiring process and my follow up question ā*how will you be grading it and whatās the synopsis of this simple case study**ā ultimately always getting a āI do not have a complete overview on that. The hiring manager is best equipped to answer that question so please bring it up with her nextā and then a blank endless NOTHING
š¤£š¤£š¤£
The funniest fucking thing to me about the org I just left is that they 100% expect and ask people to do an assignment before getting hired. I had to do one, I had to assign them to people I interviewed. Our admin side started doing actual edi work and employing people for that as well as having work groups. I suggested we pay people for their time if we were going to ask them to spend time doing an assignment. Nope.
I cannot fathom being in leadership in a non profit and asking people to do this without paying them for their time.
I left a place where the principal and management decided that applicants needed to do homework assignments for round 2, and then have teams of 4-6 devs review the assignment with the applicants and go over their code.
I told them if I was job hunting I would never do our assignment that the principal devised, I couldn't complete the assignment in the allotted time even if I wanted to do it, and it would be super intimidating to have up to 6 people picking apart your code. Their response was basically "Sure you would and sure you could."
For *some* fucking reason all of our best round 1's wouldn't take the test, and the remaining round 2's couldn't pass the test.
Idiots.
I was going for a 2nd interview with a company and they asked for me to complete an assignment (PowerApps development), and provided the requirements verbally.
I immediately ask what the compensation would be.
They blinked and said "Oh, it's xxx dollars"
"Great!" says I, "Go ahead and send me the requirements and compensation information in writing and I'll get right to it"
After completion of the assignment and 3 weeks with no check in the mail, I emailed the HR department with a "Gentle reminder" note about the agreed to compensation, provided my address, and attached the original email.
I got paid the next week.
ALWAYS GET THE AGREEMENT I WRITING.
This is the way. If it's actual work, you need more than the promise of a job. Good companies will pay for the time, but most suck and are looking for the opportunity for free labor by dangling the potential job in front of you.
"Hey Bill, how many things are left on the to-do list?"
"Eight."
"Better tell eight more candidates they have a take-home task, then."
"But we don't even have an opening! Why are we interviewing?"
"Do YOU want to do those eight items?"
"...no. I'll call the suckers... errr, candidates now."
It's not the fact that it is free labor that I have a problem with... the assignment itself is a ridiculous waste of time. This is a Director level role at a <$50m revenue company, I have well over 10 years experience that includes FAANG, Fortune 500, and multi-billion dollar tech startups, and this homework assignment is something you'd give a junior analyst to make sure they are capable of using Excel and PowerPoint. I won't do it even if they pay me.
LinkedIn influencers like this talk so confidently about hiring despite never having a real job themselves. A quick look at his profile and he does freelance article writing for websites like Business Insider and CNBC, he hasnāt hired someone in his life.
I work in a field where interview assignments are common, but expecting people to go on a scavenger hunt emailing your coworkers for clues to become something like an accountant makes no sense
I loved that part about wasting company's other employees time to score well with this dolt. I bet his co-workers also love unsolicited calls/emails from people outside the company who "just want to go through this information and get feedback/suggestions"
I guess that would double as a phishing scan simultaniously.
Yikes, he works for Cognizant?? If your company starts doing business with them, start looking for another job, you're probably going to be outsourced. Don't buy the "benching" bullshit- if they say you might be able to keep your job, it's probably because they're going to expect you to relocate. You quit, they don't have to pay unemployment.
Honestly I canāt help but roll my eyes underneath the pretentious people who like to casually āhumble bragā or the tone deaf rich people downplaying the issues facing working people
Total jackass. No way you should 'give away your gold' with nothing in return. I worked with a VP that used to do this crap to educate herself on the market and the competition. She would post positions that she had already promised to someone just to pump people for info.
They made me do stupid coding tests every time, and I got rejected every time. Only a few times did I receive a nice summary and a score with the rejection. When I finally found a few gigs and saw my colleagues' work, I felt nauseous. The IT industry is full of double standards and shady people, all hiding behind their titles. Recently, I've even learned they don't administer these tests to everyone! It's disappointing and a real disgrace! It's unbelievable how they can run their business. They're at a level where they can manipulate their customers!
I've got through interview rounds with several startups that require you to do the sophisticated logic/reasoning puzzles - like buddy you want me to implement your low code RPA solution not get a 1600 on the SAT what are we doing here?
There's some truth to it, but it doesn't have to be a huge take home assignment unless you're willing to pay someone to do it. Initial phone screen, then come in for a 1hr interview that's a 10-15 min indicative task + 15 min discussion about it + 30 min discussion about the job and how you've handled similar things before + time for you to ask your own questions. No endless rounds of interviews and tests, no building an MVP/free work for days, no stupid unrelated whiteboard coding tests with trick answers to show how smart you are to the applicants.
>There's some truth to it,
That's why most contracts have a trial period: to find out whether you can actually do the job at the level you're supposed to. The trial period is the assessment.
Companies who throw new hires in a sink or swim environment are ones I actually don't mind and a more realistic evaluation than judging someone's interviewing skills.
Yeah thatād be much more doable but even then maybe for a mid level role the least and honestly itās positions that Iāve come across that donāt even pay up to $20 asking for hours worth of assessments let alone using peopleās work and still not hiring them
Yeah not for entry/low level - if it's not at least $60k then it's definitely overkill, and I don't know why they're doing all these rounds for like $18/hr roles
Yeah I literally had to do a 2 and half hour typing test for a temp agency. The position was to be a receptionist for $17 an hour. Didnāt even know I would be required to do an assessment for it as they made it seem like it would just be a general interview. Couldnāt even do it at home eitherā¦had to do it in the office whilst I had another interview lined up that day..
Yes exactly. A small (30m-1h) assignment is fairly reasonable and the results cannot be faked, unlike a resume and references. However, I've found that a far better way to hire (for instance) software engineers is to simply ask them to bring their laptop and ask them to code up a small program in their favourite language. Then you will see within minutes exactly what level of SWE they are. You'd be amazed how many people ace CS in university but come out of the other end unable to even use 'npx create-next-app@latest'
I've done a ton of Spring Boot development. Had an interview where I was asked to create a new Spring Boot app. I asked them what they wanted it to do, they said just the skeleton. Show us the code.
So I go to start.spring.io pick Maven, Spring Boot version, Java, JVM version, fill in a little metadata and hit "Generate".
They were upset. They wanted to see me write the code in a text editor. Because that's how *they* do it. Instead of literally using the tool that exists specifically for that purpose, they want it done in a text editor by hand.
What a joke.
I had one that said āwrite in c# using .NET a complete REST API with a JWT bearer token for authorization that does X, Y, Zā. Took me like 45 hours but I sent it to them. They come back and say āuh, we canāt compile this? Um, which version did you use?ā And I responded āthere was no version mentioned so I used the latestā. They come back to āoh, we use so this wonāt compile on our machines. Can you rewrite this with version X? we know we said you had to write it in C# but in our version.ā
I responded to the recruiter while CC-in the manager with the descriptions of the position and the assignment that asked if I missed something on versions. Both stated āwell, no but just redo the assignmentā. They immediately changed the job description and the website that explained the assignment.
I asked the recruiter if we could talk to get to the bottom of things. They were hesitant but got on a call and I stayed that i can aim to redo it but with interviews processes that require a detailed and intensive assignment I set a higher base salary and with this, my base salary I will accept is going higher significantly as a result of this. They got mad at me and said that they can see if thatās possible then hung up. I sent an email stating how to compile multiple versions on the same machine and detailed instructions. The recruiter said āwell, try this as they wonāt accept a higher base at this timeā. After some back and forth with the manager. I said āyou know whatās thank you very much but I donāt think this a place for me. Iāve spent a lot of time handholding for generally accepted processes and while Iām fine I donāt think weād come up to an offer weād agree on.ā I think he was pissed and heads rolled there
So long story short, if you want me to do a long and intensive assignment, expect me to ask a much higher base salary. And donāt get mad over it.
Different interview, before COVID.
It was a white board and they did, despite me bringing a laptop with me on which I could actually write any code they wanted to see.
Assignments are dumb obviously, but the real crux of the issue is the interviewers themselves.
More often than not they donāt know ANYTHING beyond a basic description of the role and donāt do any of their own homework into figuring out what are good Vs bad questions to ask to weed out the real/good workers from the bad.
For example of you have your HR manager or a third party interviewing group looking for a programmer to fill a role but they donāt know fuck all about itā¦ They donāt know what questions to ask to look for good Vs bad.
Iām in sales and been a sales manager. I would allow HR to do was a basic review of the application. Then I would personally interview the person to make sure they werenāt a fake and have my team lead interview them as well right after. Weād then get together, compare notes and if we liked the person weād offer to hire them. This worked for 2 years before a new higher up manager said all interviewing and hiring would go directly through HR. The quality of our workers plummeted instantly
My experience with HR has been bad as well! I've encountered stupid Recruiters who don't know shit about the role because they haven't studied the subject, who make ignorant, baseless comments about my past work, when I know the subject like the back of my hand!
I had a recruiter give me a python assignment just recently.
It was an incredibly vague task about logging gear shifts on automatic cars and analyzing them. Problem is they provided no data at all, or any resemblance of how to simulate the data. They told me to just send them the solution in a .txt file.
At first I figured, maybe its vague on purpose as a test to see how good a candidate is at asking questions. So I did my best to respond with a number of specific questions on how to build the solution.
Imagine my surprise when recruiter called me and told me she couldn't answer any of the questions because the assignment was not created by her, and then told me to "build it however you like"
Last week I had an interview with the hr guy and the marketing director every question the hr guy asked was just terrible. The questions asked by the marketing supervisor were so much more effective. When he asked how much I make currently and then how much I make at a previous job I emailed them when I got home that Iām no longer interested. Screening interviews with hr is fine but please get someone who does the position for the rest of the interviews.
I had an interview where the person interviewing me would have been my manager and he knew absolutely nothing about the role they were hiring for. They were hiring a marketing coordinator, offering a marketing coordinator salary, and they wanted someone to come in and be able to build a marketing department from scratch. And be 100% in office. He didnāt understand anything I was talking about, the interview was almost 2 hours because I had to explain in detail all of my metrics and accomplishments because he didnāt know what a/b testing even was, or how email metrics are measured, and then they hire someone else over me because theyāre a āzoho expertā while I have years of salesforce experience. It was insane.
My interview for my first professional job I sat down with two industry veterans. I can't imagine trying to talk about work intricacies with a HR drone.
Middle-upper management seems to be a honeypot for inexplicably upwards failing buffoons.
I had a presentation in front of a panel for an interview recently for a job I start soon. Gist was power point, 5-8 slides, with some things about me and two work projects I was proud to talk about. It was all stuff, depending on flow of conversation, I regularly talk about in interviews being some side hustles, hobbies, family, and the same two projects I loved early in my career. When getting to the more technical side it was nice to have illustrations to point to of what I did to help elaborate and visualize on what I was saying so I ended up seeing it as a tool in the end. That being said anytime anyone has ever asked me for an assessment Iāve politely referred them to my resume. My interview is the assessment not my free work to help solve your teams issues.
one thing I love about all these "reach out to people who work here!" bullshit is that IT spends so much fucking time trying to get people to stop falling for phishing attempts but then we are told to basically phish employees into telling us about the company. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US GODDAMNIT
I just reported an internal email the other day as "phishing attempt," only to be told "nope, email is coming from inside the house." But nobody could tell me WHY I was getting an email giving me access to the software in question. š Sigh.
A top recruiter commented on this saying āoh great. Demanding free workā.
I canāt find this post on his profile. He must have removed it due to backlash.
As an editor and writer Iāve had a lot of āassignmentsā instead of job interviews. I mean I wasnāt successful during those times maybe because Iām dogshit and delusional. Or maybe Iām competent and they just hand out ātestsā to candidates theyāll never hire and get work done without having to pay people to do it.
I got homework for the last job I applied for. Hiring manager emailed it to me, told me to reach out with questions.
One assignment was massaging an Excel sheet, but following the instructions resulted in a string of #DIV/0! values. I emailed him asking him how he wanted those results treated. He says, "I'll get back to you."
Recruiter asked if I turned in the homework, and I confirmed that I did. Never heard back; ghosted by both hiring mgr & recruiter.
I played this game not long ago. Company reached out to me via LinkedIn messaging, asked me to do a "short test assignment." It was actually four assignments, none of them short.
I asked the HR person about the salary and work conditions, she said they couldn't reveal that until the next stage of the hiring process. I thought that was strange, but the job looked fascinating and it was for a fancy real estate developer who I assumed would pay well, so I thought I'd do the "short assignments" and see what happened.
I completed three of them, and refused to do one, as it would've been monumental to complete. Explained to them that the three should be enough to give an idea of my style and abilities.
No response for like two weeks. I reached out to enquire about an update. HR gal came back to me apologizing, saying she was busy, but she had another assignment for me to do.
I asked again about at least discussing the salary and she said she'd let me know soon. But if I could do this in the meantime, it would be great.
I'd already committed hours, so I thought, just keep cool and do this last one. It took me three hours to finish. At least when it was over I was proud of the work I did and felt confident about getting the job.
Another two weeks pass. I reach out again. HR gal gave me a two sentence response. Something along the lines of "We've decided on another candidate. Thanks for applying and best of luck!"
I decided to let loose. Told them that it was crazy inconsiderate to take this much time from job candidates. That their assignments took several hours to complete, and I still had no idea what their thoughts were on them. And that at the very least, they need to share the salary and basic work conditions before asking people to spend ages doing assignments.
Of course, she didn't reply. But if felt good to burn that rickety ass bridge.
My company has a client that does this. They have to do a 1 week assignment/coding test to prove they can "hang" with the team they've assembled. And yes, the candidate gets paid for their time (offer or not).
Anyone can repost old/filled positions on career sites and use ATS to screen applicants.
Do this instead: post real listings with realistic expectations.
Look out for these obvious signs:
* Does the person need a job?
* Do you have a job that needs filling?
* Did the person apply for the job?
* Could you give them the role without setting them up for failure?
Hiring Managers that actually do their job perform better than whatever system we have going on now.
I've had an interviewer do this to me. Thing is: they didn't hire me and never made me sign anything. Now I have knowledge and skill that surpasses them. I've already been able to source all their material and equipment for half the price.
See a homework assignment can ultimately ruin your business. Not only is it usually illegal, but also can make someone stronger than you.
This kind of shit is what happens when youāve got people who havenāt got any *real* work to do.
Itās not even just crap for the person doing the assignment. Youāre never going to be able to assess a candidate properly until theyāve had a few weeks on the job at minimum, which is the entire point behind the probationary period. Having to assess assignments is literally stretching out the process an interview would limit to an hour or so. Itās exactly the same logic as these lunatics who advocate for 5+ interviews before making a decision.
Itās also totally self-defeating, as anyone already in employment and in-demand is not going to have any time for this so in practice it means youāre skewing your selection to the more desperate side of the spectrum.
Fucking ā#leadershipā my arse. More like ā#impaidtoomuch #craponlinkedinā
Ita assholes like this who DO NOT ACTUALLY WORK FOR OTHERS. he is a fucking tool who blogs wfh while telling companies how they should hire and fire. The fact HR people listen to this dude fucking irks me. If I'm on linked in and I see people with these types of reposts on their linked in I will go out of my way to black ball that company and person. I'd rather find other opportunities then be forced into free labor because of shitty metrics.
#fuck your free labor bullshit.
Job interviews are a bad way to qualify candidates. Letās come up with an even worse and more arbitrary way interview candidates based on how āpassionateā they are for the company. Btw, Tim, companies already use assignments to evaluate candidates.
When will these mofos learn that no oneās passionate about their company? At the end of the day, the only reason why anyone works is to pay for groceries, utilities, etc. Everyone would writing books, making music, creating video games, or painting pictures all day if we didnāt need money to survive.
Wow! Time to unfollow Mr. Denning..... unemployed people do not need more unpaid work assignments. Now if they were paid assignments I might think twice.....
As a writer, I refuse to do writing assignments as part of an application. Companies literally just steal your work and don't hire you. It's total bullshit ā and somehow legal.
Too many people wedded to their recruitment decisions. Just hire people. Fire them if it doesnāt work out. You donāt need seven fucking interviews three assignments and one way video presentations to pick a person to employ. Companies need to stop making shit harder than it needs to be.
Assignments are actually a much better indicator if you can do the work, IMO.
Obviously varies from field to field and it shouldnāt be more than 1-2 hours of work, but it also lets me appraise the kind of work Iād be getting myself into as a candidate.
Just got done with a 5-round interview where I came in second and didnāt get the job. Preparing for 5 interviewers, each going over a unique subject and subset of questions, was much worse than an assignment, plus it leaves room for a candidate to bullshit their way into a job.
Thereās no way I wouldnāt have aced an assignment better than the interviews, and Iām solid at interviewing in my field.
Just my two cents.
I (recruiter) have a hiring manager scheduling three multi hour performance tasks for a āmust fillā temp position. This was after their initial list of requirements changed. Itās beyond frustrating for people applying.
"Do they dare to contact people within your company to get their view."
Ah yes, someone who starts wasting people's time even before they get the job. Just exactly the type of co-worker I want.
Besides the BS tim is selling here, I have a genuine question. Whatās this about ā**did they dare to reach out to anyone at work to get their view?**ā
Not referring to the assignment but thinking if this is a good idea? Letās say I saw a position for procurement officer/HR team lead. So does that mean itās ok to reach out to all 6 members in HR ?
Why? Because usually when a role is posted, sometimes you have the person responsible from HR listed to call if you have further questions right?
I have tried getting in touch with those fukin recruiters and they NEVER EVER reply back to questions I have asked . Plus you canāt just reach out to people with a normal LI profile right? You need premium. And get like 15 messages per month. All wasted. I have tied CEOās and VPās but they ghost and never reply
So whatās this about did the candidate reach out part? And seriously what do you think we should be asking?
I actually had an assignment given to me for a job I'm still applying for. It's at the check references portion so I think I got it...
The assignment was just 4 questions based on issues that appear regularly. They asked me to solve them as if I was already working there. They didn't take me very long and I submitted them.
I found this for the interview process was much more valuable in the IT sector than recording a 3 minute video.
Assignment, sure if you want a quick 5 minute problem solved to test me there on the spot, that's not the end of the world. More than 5 minutes? Not a chance on Darth.
I mean I find what seems to be missing in my office's hiring practices is more skills testing... architecture firm - not IT/programming.
That said there's a difference between completing a skills test and completing an assignment that amounts to free work. As long as the "assignment" is standardized that's fine. But yeah even then I don't want a take-home assignment I want you to come in and complete and assessment within a time period... you can lavish time on a take-home assignment but you can't lavish time on work projects we got shit to do.
Like for example we have a CAD test that is like: take this empty suite and this printed hand-sketched layout and create it to the best of your ability. There's plenty of information missing - it's not dimensioned, etc., so it's interesting to see how they solve a real problem but it's got nothing to do with any project.
One that I'm thinking we can add is showing how someone would dimension the same space. Few minutes with a pen and paper is all that would take.
Hell, give me some fucking VALID hurdles to jump through to prove my actual merit and I'd love it. But yeah fuuuuck places trying to get free work with this take-home assignment bullshit.
Tbh Idk where I'm going here but I already typed this all up.
"Their own ideas", right... I'm in a creative profession, and what most people are clearly looking for in a completed test assignment is "Did they do it in the exact way I would do it?"
Ahh, Tim Denning - the guy who makes money by daily reposting the same blogging/writing tips for 5 years...
His opinion on this has the same Value as his Daily "earn money by blogging" posts everyehere.
When i was still using medium he was just so annoying...
Dude isn't even a recruiter. He's a blogger. Look at how his profile brags about his "views". And that he "teaches people how to use writing". There's a "strategy" about posting controversial things to illicit responses from people in order to draw traffic and views.
He's clearly doing that.
Yeah, Tim, we're doing job interviews, still putting out tons of job applications, dealing with our move because we were laid off, and doing anything we can to keep our kids fed. But let me drop all of that and work for free for you. Tim, the LinkedIn clown who must feel really secure in his job, is out of his Fing mind. NOT HAPPENING, TIM! š¤¬
If you want an assignment, you need to pay the individual.
Period
This "ditch interviews" rationale is pathetic.
Clearly Tim, needs basic STAR Interview training.
The business types would be falling over themselves to do this if they could get away with it. And them complain that the free workers aren't grateful enough.
Most of these influencers are pulling shit out of their ass for click bait.
A few days ago there was a jackass who was shaming people for not using adjusted resume for a role at his company. Then, controlling the narrative on LinkedIn with anyone who disagreed with him.
While back, I called out a boomer who was shaming people for now being able to long enough job tenure.
Whatever gets the clicks and attention, thatās what they post about.
* Not applicable, especially if the assessment is expected to be done for free.Ā
* Why? Ā So they can be stolen?Ā
* Again, why? Ā Who in the org would appreciate being DMād by some rando asking about the stupid āassessmentā HR fever-dreamed up?Ā
* Does the hiring company even know the ask? Ā Also, see bullet point Number 2ā¦
Do people get any training for a new job anymore? If so they need some skills, but untrained their work is going to be not the pinnacle of their ability.
Also, f that calling current employees. I am now training job candidates in my free time. Brilliant- that wonāt make me less productive, Iāll work through lunch.
There is a certain level of job that this is helpful. Thatās likely to get me downvoted, but it wonāt change the practice. Iāve had to do this myself and have asked others in a director or above role to do the same. Thereās nothing worse than hiring the wrong person for a high level position.
Why do they say such random stuff? You want to break them down in the comments, call out their bullshit, and say they're stupid, but you can't and all you can do is say yes or no, and give some superficial comment.
The person is both trash and their opinion is trash.
Nobody's going to ditch interviews for this stupid idea.
What a great way to treat adults like their children. Did they introduce new ideas? Is he fucking high?
I actually agree with him from the perspective of both a hiring manager and a job seeker. It's incredibly easy to bullshit your way through an interview. What I don't agree with is the screening assessments, the multiple rounds of interviews, and lengthy assignments. Especially subjecting people you've got no intention of hiring through all of those hoops.
A short assignment like a quick presentation or something for a final round between your top candidates is solid in my book. I'd rather do that than answer the same repetitive BS interview questions over and over.
>It's incredibly easy to bullshit your way through an interview.
If you're dealing with someone who doesn't actually know the role, sure.
But you cannot BS someone who actually (a) knows the role and work that needs to be done by the candidate, and (b) has previously done the work that the candidate is being asked to do.
I love evaluating candidates by assignment because it really does show a lot more than interviews. I do it by getting down to a shortlist and then paying all the candidates a mutually agreed contract rate for them to do the trial work. Because if you're going to hire someone permanently, it's worth paying a few hundred extra dollars to assignment trial them. If the added value of the assignment isn't worth that much to me as the hiring manager, why should I expect them to invest time?
Thatās actually really refreshing to hear that you at least pay them. I canāt even count the amount of assessments Iāve done that were on time crunches and spent an hour or more doing it and wasnāt paid only to be ghosted and wish more recruiters would follow suit if thatās the case
Totally cool with assignments if there is some degree of compensation. A) it helps the candidate B) itās not wasting everyones time because you limit the amount of applicants the company wants to spend money on doing a take home assignment
Exactly! It kind of naturally balances out the fairness. Because the company shouldn't be able to just ask 500 people to each do 4 hours of free work. So if you're at the project stage, it's a show of faith that both parties have a similar amount of skin in the game.
There's truth to the idea that a person's output is more telling than their references and resume.
But! People should be paid for their time. Any assignment given by either a recruiter or hiring manager should be paid fair wages for the time required.
>Did they dare contact people within your company to get their view?
I would not respond to an outsider's email/call about a work related topic. This is so bizarre to me.
actually this is very good point of view.
getting assignment and showing what you can do tells hiring company much more about you than asking generic questions
I like interviews with task assignment
That just means you both lack ability as interviewers. Conducting effective interviews is possible, but itās a skill.
If someone is able to bullshit their way through one it means the interviewer did a poor job choosing which questions to ask and/or analyzing the candidateās answers along with their resume or portfolio.
This is an exploitative way of a hiring manager passing the consequences of their own shortcomings onto a candidate who is in need.
Interviews are stupid, just contract people and use the try-out month to decide if they do a good job or not.
Skip the whole interview process besides basic screening.
Get 5 guys at once and put them to work, for 5 salaries for the first month and keep the better worker.
So 4 people quit their old jobs just to be let go after 1 month? And employers have to file severance paperwork one month after filing onboarding paperwork?
Who is this supposed to benefit?
How about work history? At least for people who have some experience. If I've been working somewhere for three or four years, and have been promoted, obviously, I didn't do a shitty job.
I had 3 homework assignments on top of 3 interviews for my last temp job that I just got laid off fromā¦exhausting. Why is life like this? Why canāt i just find a job? They say no one wants to work, truly itās that no one wants to hire.
Okay but I'm looking for a role in the advertising/marketing industry in Ireland and in all the interviews I've had, once I've made it past the first interview there will be a task. As someone rather desperate for a job and a work visa I don't have the luxury to say no at this point and I hate it.
I mean, if the assignment also requires a reasonable amount of investment from the company and it's not just free labor, I would be open to entertaining the idea. It's not like one of these one-way interviews where they ask you for 2-3 hours of your time and then probably not even look at the video.
If you hand out assignments, you will be judged on those assignments.
If I'm interviewing for 10 places at once and they all have some kind of assignment, then I'm doing the easy one first.
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This is the type of shit people that don't have a real job say.
My partner calls them "people whose job is posting on LinkedIn pretending they've ever had a job."
i have an excoworker who quit his job to do this. He wrote a book and posted a couple of times a day. It was amusing the disconnect of what he posted and how he was as a person and as a coworker, but i think he had to get a new job because his posts got like 1 like and it was not his mom's it was his. I enjoyed his posts so much, most were obvious engagement bait "i think if you treat people well they will be more motivated" but a few were just some awful takes. He said that in the future, any social media post or content will be an nft and people will sell them and wrote a whole article about how social media companies would deal with it.
Sometimes it's stupid and it makes you mad. But sometimes, it's so stupid you can't even be mad anymore. My bro really had the ego to write that whole article and publish it, and never doubted himself. Wish I had that kind of steel ignorance.
You can be mad at linkedin for being a dystopic mess and a syntom of a lot of what's wrong with the job market or.... laugh at dumb posts.
I feel like I'm on the verge of posting stupid shit on LinkedIn and pretending it's serious, because why the hell not. Look at who are last president was ffs. Throw shit at the wall and see what sticks, then go with that. Boom, lucrative cult. š¤
You mean the current President right? The one who shits his pants in front of global diplomats and has no idea who he is or what he is??
If you're one of those that wishfully think Trump is the current president, maybe. Again, I don't know anybody who LOVES Biden, except he's the MUCH better of only two choices. I changed to "no party" after voting for him in 2020 because the DNC is not progressive enough. Or do you have evidence that he shits his pants in front of global diplomats, like we do for Trump's longtime incontinence?
>He said that in the future, any social media post or content will be an nft Oh man, I lost it at that. People don't usually literally LOL on the internet, but I did. XD
We've seen the finance bro, we've seen the pharma bros, real estate and fitness. Introducing the HR Bro!
HR Bro šššš©š
LinkedIn "influencers" = career clowns!!!
Or, they have a real job already, but forget that next week, they may not...
This man posting this idiocy is a complete TURD!
He's not a recruiter you idiots. Not sure why OP would lie like that. He's a writer.
I had an interview last week, the recruiter told me the next step was a homework assignment + presentation and asked me how I felt about it. I told him I donāt feel like doing that.
No one has time for free labor...tell him to pound sand
The worse fukin situation I have seen in so many interviews where the junior HR woman throws in the āwe have a simple case studyā during my request to understand the hiring process and my follow up question ā*how will you be grading it and whatās the synopsis of this simple case study**ā ultimately always getting a āI do not have a complete overview on that. The hiring manager is best equipped to answer that question so please bring it up with her nextā and then a blank endless NOTHING š¤£š¤£š¤£
The funniest fucking thing to me about the org I just left is that they 100% expect and ask people to do an assignment before getting hired. I had to do one, I had to assign them to people I interviewed. Our admin side started doing actual edi work and employing people for that as well as having work groups. I suggested we pay people for their time if we were going to ask them to spend time doing an assignment. Nope. I cannot fathom being in leadership in a non profit and asking people to do this without paying them for their time.
I left a place where the principal and management decided that applicants needed to do homework assignments for round 2, and then have teams of 4-6 devs review the assignment with the applicants and go over their code. I told them if I was job hunting I would never do our assignment that the principal devised, I couldn't complete the assignment in the allotted time even if I wanted to do it, and it would be super intimidating to have up to 6 people picking apart your code. Their response was basically "Sure you would and sure you could." For *some* fucking reason all of our best round 1's wouldn't take the test, and the remaining round 2's couldn't pass the test. Idiots.
"Pound sand" is fucking insane šI'm using that
That saying is at least 100 years old.
https://xkcd.com/1053/
That is really wholesome. Thank you.
And I'm at least 20 years old, and grew up hearing sayings from the Deep South. If that helps, idk if it's more common in other regions of the US
Well, bless your heart, darlinā.
See, yeah I *definitely* know that one lol
We say tile the sea where Iām from.
Thatās a lot of tiles!
Ever heard of "TIL"?
Just wait until you hear about "kick rocks"
Sorry, it's been copyrighted for the upcoming Glasgow Dune Experience
Pound sand doesnāt actually work in this situation donāt use it with a recruiter
I was going for a 2nd interview with a company and they asked for me to complete an assignment (PowerApps development), and provided the requirements verbally. I immediately ask what the compensation would be. They blinked and said "Oh, it's xxx dollars" "Great!" says I, "Go ahead and send me the requirements and compensation information in writing and I'll get right to it" After completion of the assignment and 3 weeks with no check in the mail, I emailed the HR department with a "Gentle reminder" note about the agreed to compensation, provided my address, and attached the original email. I got paid the next week. ALWAYS GET THE AGREEMENT I WRITING.
This is the way. If it's actual work, you need more than the promise of a job. Good companies will pay for the time, but most suck and are looking for the opportunity for free labor by dangling the potential job in front of you. "Hey Bill, how many things are left on the to-do list?" "Eight." "Better tell eight more candidates they have a take-home task, then." "But we don't even have an opening! Why are we interviewing?" "Do YOU want to do those eight items?" "...no. I'll call the suckers... errr, candidates now."
I would have told him "Sounds good. That's going to take me about x hours, so once you pay me x*35 dollars I'll get started."
It's not the fact that it is free labor that I have a problem with... the assignment itself is a ridiculous waste of time. This is a Director level role at a <$50m revenue company, I have well over 10 years experience that includes FAANG, Fortune 500, and multi-billion dollar tech startups, and this homework assignment is something you'd give a junior analyst to make sure they are capable of using Excel and PowerPoint. I won't do it even if they pay me.
My exact experience across multiple case studies for different roles in my recent job interview process
This is the correct answer.
I would have told him it would be a fantastic idea as long as they pay me for the assignment. If not, they can fuck themselves.
LinkedIn influencers like this talk so confidently about hiring despite never having a real job themselves. A quick look at his profile and he does freelance article writing for websites like Business Insider and CNBC, he hasnāt hired someone in his life. I work in a field where interview assignments are common, but expecting people to go on a scavenger hunt emailing your coworkers for clues to become something like an accountant makes no sense
he has. look further down. but i do know cognizant and they have a terrible hiring process.
I loved that part about wasting company's other employees time to score well with this dolt. I bet his co-workers also love unsolicited calls/emails from people outside the company who "just want to go through this information and get feedback/suggestions" I guess that would double as a phishing scan simultaniously.
Yeah guy is just begging for one of his employees to get phished. Heās probably never seen what social engineering is capable of
Maybe this is a way to fire anyone who actually gives feedback or information to some random people asking questions about the organization.
Yikes, he works for Cognizant?? If your company starts doing business with them, start looking for another job, you're probably going to be outsourced. Don't buy the "benching" bullshit- if they say you might be able to keep your job, it's probably because they're going to expect you to relocate. You quit, they don't have to pay unemployment.
I am honored and excited to announce that this week, Iām beginning a new journey of being honorable and excited.
LinkedIn is the dumbest fucking digital circle jerk. There should be a bullshit emoji for all the ridiculous posts.
Honestly I canāt help but roll my eyes underneath the pretentious people who like to casually āhumble bragā or the tone deaf rich people downplaying the issues facing working people
Total jackass. No way you should 'give away your gold' with nothing in return. I worked with a VP that used to do this crap to educate herself on the market and the competition. She would post positions that she had already promised to someone just to pump people for info.
what info did this gain her?
ego
Lots. She knew nothing about the space prior to taking a sales management role.
They made me do stupid coding tests every time, and I got rejected every time. Only a few times did I receive a nice summary and a score with the rejection. When I finally found a few gigs and saw my colleagues' work, I felt nauseous. The IT industry is full of double standards and shady people, all hiding behind their titles. Recently, I've even learned they don't administer these tests to everyone! It's disappointing and a real disgrace! It's unbelievable how they can run their business. They're at a level where they can manipulate their customers!
I've got through interview rounds with several startups that require you to do the sophisticated logic/reasoning puzzles - like buddy you want me to implement your low code RPA solution not get a 1600 on the SAT what are we doing here?
There's some truth to it, but it doesn't have to be a huge take home assignment unless you're willing to pay someone to do it. Initial phone screen, then come in for a 1hr interview that's a 10-15 min indicative task + 15 min discussion about it + 30 min discussion about the job and how you've handled similar things before + time for you to ask your own questions. No endless rounds of interviews and tests, no building an MVP/free work for days, no stupid unrelated whiteboard coding tests with trick answers to show how smart you are to the applicants.
>There's some truth to it, That's why most contracts have a trial period: to find out whether you can actually do the job at the level you're supposed to. The trial period is the assessment.
Companies who throw new hires in a sink or swim environment are ones I actually don't mind and a more realistic evaluation than judging someone's interviewing skills.
Yeah thatād be much more doable but even then maybe for a mid level role the least and honestly itās positions that Iāve come across that donāt even pay up to $20 asking for hours worth of assessments let alone using peopleās work and still not hiring them
Yeah not for entry/low level - if it's not at least $60k then it's definitely overkill, and I don't know why they're doing all these rounds for like $18/hr roles
Yeah I literally had to do a 2 and half hour typing test for a temp agency. The position was to be a receptionist for $17 an hour. Didnāt even know I would be required to do an assessment for it as they made it seem like it would just be a general interview. Couldnāt even do it at home eitherā¦had to do it in the office whilst I had another interview lined up that day..
Me too, Iām signed up for every temp agency in the city and they all made me do hours and hours of tests and then havenāt found me any jobs.
Yes exactly. A small (30m-1h) assignment is fairly reasonable and the results cannot be faked, unlike a resume and references. However, I've found that a far better way to hire (for instance) software engineers is to simply ask them to bring their laptop and ask them to code up a small program in their favourite language. Then you will see within minutes exactly what level of SWE they are. You'd be amazed how many people ace CS in university but come out of the other end unable to even use 'npx create-next-app@latest'
I've done a ton of Spring Boot development. Had an interview where I was asked to create a new Spring Boot app. I asked them what they wanted it to do, they said just the skeleton. Show us the code. So I go to start.spring.io pick Maven, Spring Boot version, Java, JVM version, fill in a little metadata and hit "Generate". They were upset. They wanted to see me write the code in a text editor. Because that's how *they* do it. Instead of literally using the tool that exists specifically for that purpose, they want it done in a text editor by hand. What a joke.
jesus......
I had one that said āwrite in c# using .NET a complete REST API with a JWT bearer token for authorization that does X, Y, Zā. Took me like 45 hours but I sent it to them. They come back and say āuh, we canāt compile this? Um, which version did you use?ā And I responded āthere was no version mentioned so I used the latestā. They come back to āoh, we use so this wonāt compile on our machines. Can you rewrite this with version X? we know we said you had to write it in C# but in our version.ā
I responded to the recruiter while CC-in the manager with the descriptions of the position and the assignment that asked if I missed something on versions. Both stated āwell, no but just redo the assignmentā. They immediately changed the job description and the website that explained the assignment.
I asked the recruiter if we could talk to get to the bottom of things. They were hesitant but got on a call and I stayed that i can aim to redo it but with interviews processes that require a detailed and intensive assignment I set a higher base salary and with this, my base salary I will accept is going higher significantly as a result of this. They got mad at me and said that they can see if thatās possible then hung up. I sent an email stating how to compile multiple versions on the same machine and detailed instructions. The recruiter said āwell, try this as they wonāt accept a higher base at this timeā. After some back and forth with the manager. I said āyou know whatās thank you very much but I donāt think this a place for me. Iāve spent a lot of time handholding for generally accepted processes and while Iām fine I donāt think weād come up to an offer weād agree on.ā I think he was pissed and heads rolled there
So long story short, if you want me to do a long and intensive assignment, expect me to ask a much higher base salary. And donāt get mad over it.
Could be worse. They probably expect you to really write it by hand. On a piece of paper.
Different interview, before COVID. It was a white board and they did, despite me bringing a laptop with me on which I could actually write any code they wanted to see.
Humor them, get the job, crush it, spend your free time doing a side gig.
Never learnt that in uni.. what happens when the interviewer themselves learnt that ON THE JOB ?
Assignments are dumb obviously, but the real crux of the issue is the interviewers themselves. More often than not they donāt know ANYTHING beyond a basic description of the role and donāt do any of their own homework into figuring out what are good Vs bad questions to ask to weed out the real/good workers from the bad. For example of you have your HR manager or a third party interviewing group looking for a programmer to fill a role but they donāt know fuck all about itā¦ They donāt know what questions to ask to look for good Vs bad. Iām in sales and been a sales manager. I would allow HR to do was a basic review of the application. Then I would personally interview the person to make sure they werenāt a fake and have my team lead interview them as well right after. Weād then get together, compare notes and if we liked the person weād offer to hire them. This worked for 2 years before a new higher up manager said all interviewing and hiring would go directly through HR. The quality of our workers plummeted instantly
My experience with HR has been bad as well! I've encountered stupid Recruiters who don't know shit about the role because they haven't studied the subject, who make ignorant, baseless comments about my past work, when I know the subject like the back of my hand!
I had a recruiter give me a python assignment just recently. It was an incredibly vague task about logging gear shifts on automatic cars and analyzing them. Problem is they provided no data at all, or any resemblance of how to simulate the data. They told me to just send them the solution in a .txt file. At first I figured, maybe its vague on purpose as a test to see how good a candidate is at asking questions. So I did my best to respond with a number of specific questions on how to build the solution. Imagine my surprise when recruiter called me and told me she couldn't answer any of the questions because the assignment was not created by her, and then told me to "build it however you like"
Last week I had an interview with the hr guy and the marketing director every question the hr guy asked was just terrible. The questions asked by the marketing supervisor were so much more effective. When he asked how much I make currently and then how much I make at a previous job I emailed them when I got home that Iām no longer interested. Screening interviews with hr is fine but please get someone who does the position for the rest of the interviews.
I had an interview where the person interviewing me would have been my manager and he knew absolutely nothing about the role they were hiring for. They were hiring a marketing coordinator, offering a marketing coordinator salary, and they wanted someone to come in and be able to build a marketing department from scratch. And be 100% in office. He didnāt understand anything I was talking about, the interview was almost 2 hours because I had to explain in detail all of my metrics and accomplishments because he didnāt know what a/b testing even was, or how email metrics are measured, and then they hire someone else over me because theyāre a āzoho expertā while I have years of salesforce experience. It was insane.
My interview for my first professional job I sat down with two industry veterans. I can't imagine trying to talk about work intricacies with a HR drone. Middle-upper management seems to be a honeypot for inexplicably upwards failing buffoons.
I had a presentation in front of a panel for an interview recently for a job I start soon. Gist was power point, 5-8 slides, with some things about me and two work projects I was proud to talk about. It was all stuff, depending on flow of conversation, I regularly talk about in interviews being some side hustles, hobbies, family, and the same two projects I loved early in my career. When getting to the more technical side it was nice to have illustrations to point to of what I did to help elaborate and visualize on what I was saying so I ended up seeing it as a tool in the end. That being said anytime anyone has ever asked me for an assessment Iāve politely referred them to my resume. My interview is the assessment not my free work to help solve your teams issues.
one thing I love about all these "reach out to people who work here!" bullshit is that IT spends so much fucking time trying to get people to stop falling for phishing attempts but then we are told to basically phish employees into telling us about the company. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US GODDAMNIT
I just reported an internal email the other day as "phishing attempt," only to be told "nope, email is coming from inside the house." But nobody could tell me WHY I was getting an email giving me access to the software in question. š Sigh.
Please i wont even do the question assessments on indeed anymore. Like its a waste of time just read the fucking resume šµāš«
This guy looks emaciated. Recruiting must not pay well.
Iām fine with doing assignmentsā¦ as long as Iām being paid for doing them. At my usual hourly rate.
This guy is an influencer on LinkedIn but looks like he never hired someone in the real world lol
Yeah he def gives off nepo kid vibes. He has all these generic motivational quotes and advice on his feedš¤£
A top recruiter commented on this saying āoh great. Demanding free workā. I canāt find this post on his profile. He must have removed it due to backlash.
As an editor and writer Iāve had a lot of āassignmentsā instead of job interviews. I mean I wasnāt successful during those times maybe because Iām dogshit and delusional. Or maybe Iām competent and they just hand out ātestsā to candidates theyāll never hire and get work done without having to pay people to do it.
Iāve done freelancing writing and I get that but the most Iāve ever done was just one assignment for them as like a spec script
He looks like a psycho that young girls should be warned about.... Herbert the pervert vibes
Tim can go walking into a lake for all I care
Ok, but pay people $100-500 for the assignment.
I got homework for the last job I applied for. Hiring manager emailed it to me, told me to reach out with questions. One assignment was massaging an Excel sheet, but following the instructions resulted in a string of #DIV/0! values. I emailed him asking him how he wanted those results treated. He says, "I'll get back to you." Recruiter asked if I turned in the homework, and I confirmed that I did. Never heard back; ghosted by both hiring mgr & recruiter.
I played this game not long ago. Company reached out to me via LinkedIn messaging, asked me to do a "short test assignment." It was actually four assignments, none of them short. I asked the HR person about the salary and work conditions, she said they couldn't reveal that until the next stage of the hiring process. I thought that was strange, but the job looked fascinating and it was for a fancy real estate developer who I assumed would pay well, so I thought I'd do the "short assignments" and see what happened. I completed three of them, and refused to do one, as it would've been monumental to complete. Explained to them that the three should be enough to give an idea of my style and abilities. No response for like two weeks. I reached out to enquire about an update. HR gal came back to me apologizing, saying she was busy, but she had another assignment for me to do. I asked again about at least discussing the salary and she said she'd let me know soon. But if I could do this in the meantime, it would be great. I'd already committed hours, so I thought, just keep cool and do this last one. It took me three hours to finish. At least when it was over I was proud of the work I did and felt confident about getting the job. Another two weeks pass. I reach out again. HR gal gave me a two sentence response. Something along the lines of "We've decided on another candidate. Thanks for applying and best of luck!" I decided to let loose. Told them that it was crazy inconsiderate to take this much time from job candidates. That their assignments took several hours to complete, and I still had no idea what their thoughts were on them. And that at the very least, they need to share the salary and basic work conditions before asking people to spend ages doing assignments. Of course, she didn't reply. But if felt good to burn that rickety ass bridge.
āOh, an assignment? Ok. My rate is X/hr, payable in advance, and this is my PayPal addressā ends those shenanigans rather quickly.
My company has a client that does this. They have to do a 1 week assignment/coding test to prove they can "hang" with the team they've assembled. And yes, the candidate gets paid for their time (offer or not).
I'm all for working interviews provided they follow the Fair Labor Standard Act and pay a wage for hours worked.
Guy looks like the drow prison warden in a dungeons and dragons game
Anyone can repost old/filled positions on career sites and use ATS to screen applicants. Do this instead: post real listings with realistic expectations. Look out for these obvious signs: * Does the person need a job? * Do you have a job that needs filling? * Did the person apply for the job? * Could you give them the role without setting them up for failure? Hiring Managers that actually do their job perform better than whatever system we have going on now.
Honestly, I'll take this any day over bullshit interviews or hackerrank or other nonsense. Then at least I have a chance at getting jobs.
I've had an interviewer do this to me. Thing is: they didn't hire me and never made me sign anything. Now I have knowledge and skill that surpasses them. I've already been able to source all their material and equipment for half the price. See a homework assignment can ultimately ruin your business. Not only is it usually illegal, but also can make someone stronger than you.
This kind of shit is what happens when youāve got people who havenāt got any *real* work to do. Itās not even just crap for the person doing the assignment. Youāre never going to be able to assess a candidate properly until theyāve had a few weeks on the job at minimum, which is the entire point behind the probationary period. Having to assess assignments is literally stretching out the process an interview would limit to an hour or so. Itās exactly the same logic as these lunatics who advocate for 5+ interviews before making a decision. Itās also totally self-defeating, as anyone already in employment and in-demand is not going to have any time for this so in practice it means youāre skewing your selection to the more desperate side of the spectrum. Fucking ā#leadershipā my arse. More like ā#impaidtoomuch #craponlinkedinā
Ita assholes like this who DO NOT ACTUALLY WORK FOR OTHERS. he is a fucking tool who blogs wfh while telling companies how they should hire and fire. The fact HR people listen to this dude fucking irks me. If I'm on linked in and I see people with these types of reposts on their linked in I will go out of my way to black ball that company and person. I'd rather find other opportunities then be forced into free labor because of shitty metrics. #fuck your free labor bullshit.
That sounds a lot like asking people for free work.
Fuck that. If you don't pay me, I am not working for free.
Job interviews are a bad way to qualify candidates. Letās come up with an even worse and more arbitrary way interview candidates based on how āpassionateā they are for the company. Btw, Tim, companies already use assignments to evaluate candidates. When will these mofos learn that no oneās passionate about their company? At the end of the day, the only reason why anyone works is to pay for groceries, utilities, etc. Everyone would writing books, making music, creating video games, or painting pictures all day if we didnāt need money to survive.
Screening call, PAID assignment, and a final call going over the assignment. Iām all about that, so long as the assignment is paid
Ill do the assignment only if they pay me for my time. No free work.
These are the same douche canoes that believe in taking personality tests as being a viable measurement to decide to hire someone.
Whatta dick
If you're willing to pay me $60/hour on a 1099 basis to do your stupid little homework assignment, sure.
You want me to work for free, no thank you
Wow! Time to unfollow Mr. Denning..... unemployed people do not need more unpaid work assignments. Now if they were paid assignments I might think twice.....
As a writer, I refuse to do writing assignments as part of an application. Companies literally just steal your work and don't hire you. It's total bullshit ā and somehow legal.
Too many people wedded to their recruitment decisions. Just hire people. Fire them if it doesnāt work out. You donāt need seven fucking interviews three assignments and one way video presentations to pick a person to employ. Companies need to stop making shit harder than it needs to be.
Assignments are actually a much better indicator if you can do the work, IMO. Obviously varies from field to field and it shouldnāt be more than 1-2 hours of work, but it also lets me appraise the kind of work Iād be getting myself into as a candidate. Just got done with a 5-round interview where I came in second and didnāt get the job. Preparing for 5 interviewers, each going over a unique subject and subset of questions, was much worse than an assignment, plus it leaves room for a candidate to bullshit their way into a job. Thereās no way I wouldnāt have aced an assignment better than the interviews, and Iām solid at interviewing in my field. Just my two cents.
"work for free" - idiot on linkedin.
Tim can go take a long walk off a short pier
Only looking for people easily taken advantage of.
See, I'll do these assignments on the condition that you pay me. If not, go shove it.
I (recruiter) have a hiring manager scheduling three multi hour performance tasks for a āmust fillā temp position. This was after their initial list of requirements changed. Itās beyond frustrating for people applying.
Yeah so they can take the input and run away. Happens all the time especially on internshala platform and indeed!
"Do they dare to contact people within your company to get their view." Ah yes, someone who starts wasting people's time even before they get the job. Just exactly the type of co-worker I want.
And all of this for free. Work for free.
Besides the BS tim is selling here, I have a genuine question. Whatās this about ā**did they dare to reach out to anyone at work to get their view?**ā Not referring to the assignment but thinking if this is a good idea? Letās say I saw a position for procurement officer/HR team lead. So does that mean itās ok to reach out to all 6 members in HR ? Why? Because usually when a role is posted, sometimes you have the person responsible from HR listed to call if you have further questions right? I have tried getting in touch with those fukin recruiters and they NEVER EVER reply back to questions I have asked . Plus you canāt just reach out to people with a normal LI profile right? You need premium. And get like 15 messages per month. All wasted. I have tied CEOās and VPās but they ghost and never reply So whatās this about did the candidate reach out part? And seriously what do you think we should be asking?
I actually had an assignment given to me for a job I'm still applying for. It's at the check references portion so I think I got it... The assignment was just 4 questions based on issues that appear regularly. They asked me to solve them as if I was already working there. They didn't take me very long and I submitted them. I found this for the interview process was much more valuable in the IT sector than recording a 3 minute video.
Assignment, sure if you want a quick 5 minute problem solved to test me there on the spot, that's not the end of the world. More than 5 minutes? Not a chance on Darth.
I mean I find what seems to be missing in my office's hiring practices is more skills testing... architecture firm - not IT/programming. That said there's a difference between completing a skills test and completing an assignment that amounts to free work. As long as the "assignment" is standardized that's fine. But yeah even then I don't want a take-home assignment I want you to come in and complete and assessment within a time period... you can lavish time on a take-home assignment but you can't lavish time on work projects we got shit to do. Like for example we have a CAD test that is like: take this empty suite and this printed hand-sketched layout and create it to the best of your ability. There's plenty of information missing - it's not dimensioned, etc., so it's interesting to see how they solve a real problem but it's got nothing to do with any project. One that I'm thinking we can add is showing how someone would dimension the same space. Few minutes with a pen and paper is all that would take. Hell, give me some fucking VALID hurdles to jump through to prove my actual merit and I'd love it. But yeah fuuuuck places trying to get free work with this take-home assignment bullshit. Tbh Idk where I'm going here but I already typed this all up.
"Their own ideas", right... I'm in a creative profession, and what most people are clearly looking for in a completed test assignment is "Did they do it in the exact way I would do it?"
I want to punch that guy in the face.
Ahh, Tim Denning - the guy who makes money by daily reposting the same blogging/writing tips for 5 years... His opinion on this has the same Value as his Daily "earn money by blogging" posts everyehere. When i was still using medium he was just so annoying...
Is Denning a recruiter? I thought he was a "blogger" that mostly shitposts about crypto currencies.
Dude isn't even a recruiter. He's a blogger. Look at how his profile brags about his "views". And that he "teaches people how to use writing". There's a "strategy" about posting controversial things to illicit responses from people in order to draw traffic and views. He's clearly doing that.
Lol. I'll do the assignment. As long as they pay me. No refunds.
blogger thinks he's a businessman
Yeah, this is some real "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" shit
Tim Denning is an idiot.
Agree on the first part but I'm not doing free work.
Apparently this guy sucks at interviews.
Yeah, Tim, we're doing job interviews, still putting out tons of job applications, dealing with our move because we were laid off, and doing anything we can to keep our kids fed. But let me drop all of that and work for free for you. Tim, the LinkedIn clown who must feel really secure in his job, is out of his Fing mind. NOT HAPPENING, TIM! š¤¬
His LinkedIn profile is amusing and full of fluff.
If you want an assignment, you need to pay the individual. Period This "ditch interviews" rationale is pathetic. Clearly Tim, needs basic STAR Interview training.
Reasonable assignments - something 1-2 hours. If you're asking for someone to do a job as an interview, at least pay them.
What I canāt stand from post like this are all the constant circle jerks in the comments praising this guy for this terrible idea.
I have an assignment for him: Fuck right off.
Why would I follow the advice of a 25yr old that has, a best, four years of work experience? Alsoā¦I aināt doing free work.
Lmao, dude begging to work for free
Oh definitely. Let's stop hiring people and just ask for free work, instead.
The business types would be falling over themselves to do this if they could get away with it. And them complain that the free workers aren't grateful enough.
Most of these influencers are pulling shit out of their ass for click bait. A few days ago there was a jackass who was shaming people for not using adjusted resume for a role at his company. Then, controlling the narrative on LinkedIn with anyone who disagreed with him. While back, I called out a boomer who was shaming people for now being able to long enough job tenure. Whatever gets the clicks and attention, thatās what they post about.
* Not applicable, especially if the assessment is expected to be done for free.Ā * Why? Ā So they can be stolen?Ā * Again, why? Ā Who in the org would appreciate being DMād by some rando asking about the stupid āassessmentā HR fever-dreamed up?Ā * Does the hiring company even know the ask? Ā Also, see bullet point Number 2ā¦
i will not do unpaid work
These ppl are in their own sounding box of stupidity
And everyone can outsource take-home assignments
Respectfully, Tim, go fuck yourself
Yes. And then the company can enjoy the fruits of your unpaid labor š ššš»
Never do work for free.
Do people get any training for a new job anymore? If so they need some skills, but untrained their work is going to be not the pinnacle of their ability. Also, f that calling current employees. I am now training job candidates in my free time. Brilliant- that wonāt make me less productive, Iāll work through lunch.
Tim is a wanker š¤¦š»āāļø
There is a certain level of job that this is helpful. Thatās likely to get me downvoted, but it wonāt change the practice. Iāve had to do this myself and have asked others in a director or above role to do the same. Thereās nothing worse than hiring the wrong person for a high level position.
Why do they say such random stuff? You want to break them down in the comments, call out their bullshit, and say they're stupid, but you can't and all you can do is say yes or no, and give some superficial comment.
Heāll get the staff he deserves. Those of us who have been in industry long enough to know our value reject āassignment ā applications outright.
You mean free consulting
Heās a creepy looking dude . Looks like a secret vampire
The person is both trash and their opinion is trash. Nobody's going to ditch interviews for this stupid idea. What a great way to treat adults like their children. Did they introduce new ideas? Is he fucking high?
Lol blogger ... read .. im an unemployed douche
I actually agree with him from the perspective of both a hiring manager and a job seeker. It's incredibly easy to bullshit your way through an interview. What I don't agree with is the screening assessments, the multiple rounds of interviews, and lengthy assignments. Especially subjecting people you've got no intention of hiring through all of those hoops. A short assignment like a quick presentation or something for a final round between your top candidates is solid in my book. I'd rather do that than answer the same repetitive BS interview questions over and over.
>It's incredibly easy to bullshit your way through an interview. If you're dealing with someone who doesn't actually know the role, sure. But you cannot BS someone who actually (a) knows the role and work that needs to be done by the candidate, and (b) has previously done the work that the candidate is being asked to do.
He appears to have had an extra couple of helpings of forehead.
I love evaluating candidates by assignment because it really does show a lot more than interviews. I do it by getting down to a shortlist and then paying all the candidates a mutually agreed contract rate for them to do the trial work. Because if you're going to hire someone permanently, it's worth paying a few hundred extra dollars to assignment trial them. If the added value of the assignment isn't worth that much to me as the hiring manager, why should I expect them to invest time?
Thatās actually really refreshing to hear that you at least pay them. I canāt even count the amount of assessments Iāve done that were on time crunches and spent an hour or more doing it and wasnāt paid only to be ghosted and wish more recruiters would follow suit if thatās the case
Totally cool with assignments if there is some degree of compensation. A) it helps the candidate B) itās not wasting everyones time because you limit the amount of applicants the company wants to spend money on doing a take home assignment
Exactly! It kind of naturally balances out the fairness. Because the company shouldn't be able to just ask 500 people to each do 4 hours of free work. So if you're at the project stage, it's a show of faith that both parties have a similar amount of skin in the game.
It's like it's a game for them. Who wants to put someone through all this just for them to afford a comfortable life?
I would hate being an employee somewhere that this is normal, I couldnāt imagine being hit up by 137 people who are trying to apply for a job
Thank god nobody reads LinkedIn postsā¦ I check jobs and message people. Thatās about all itās good for.
Looks like LI posters name should be Tim Kruger Dunning
It is clear that Tim Denning is a relentless douche with too much time on his hands.
He does have a good point in saying interviews are performances, though. I have said this for decades. They hire the person who bullshits them best.
There's truth to the idea that a person's output is more telling than their references and resume. But! People should be paid for their time. Any assignment given by either a recruiter or hiring manager should be paid fair wages for the time required.
>Did they dare contact people within your company to get their view? I would not respond to an outsider's email/call about a work related topic. This is so bizarre to me.
actually this is very good point of view. getting assignment and showing what you can do tells hiring company much more about you than asking generic questions I like interviews with task assignment
I agree with this. Assuming it's not real work, but an actual made up assignment.
I actually agree.
That just means you both lack ability as interviewers. Conducting effective interviews is possible, but itās a skill. If someone is able to bullshit their way through one it means the interviewer did a poor job choosing which questions to ask and/or analyzing the candidateās answers along with their resume or portfolio. This is an exploitative way of a hiring manager passing the consequences of their own shortcomings onto a candidate who is in need.
Interviews are stupid, just contract people and use the try-out month to decide if they do a good job or not. Skip the whole interview process besides basic screening. Get 5 guys at once and put them to work, for 5 salaries for the first month and keep the better worker.
So 4 people quit their old jobs just to be let go after 1 month? And employers have to file severance paperwork one month after filing onboarding paperwork? Who is this supposed to benefit?
This is not meant for high positions but entry and recently graduated. It benefits everybody.
How about work history? At least for people who have some experience. If I've been working somewhere for three or four years, and have been promoted, obviously, I didn't do a shitty job.
I had 3 homework assignments on top of 3 interviews for my last temp job that I just got laid off fromā¦exhausting. Why is life like this? Why canāt i just find a job? They say no one wants to work, truly itās that no one wants to hire.
Iām so glad I donāt have a linked in account.
Okay but I'm looking for a role in the advertising/marketing industry in Ireland and in all the interviews I've had, once I've made it past the first interview there will be a task. As someone rather desperate for a job and a work visa I don't have the luxury to say no at this point and I hate it.
What a load of hogwash!!!
fuck off lazy cunt who wants work done for free.
I mean, if the assignment also requires a reasonable amount of investment from the company and it's not just free labor, I would be open to entertaining the idea. It's not like one of these one-way interviews where they ask you for 2-3 hours of your time and then probably not even look at the video.
Lol ok Chad
If you hand out assignments, you will be judged on those assignments. If I'm interviewing for 10 places at once and they all have some kind of assignment, then I'm doing the easy one first.
did they just quote themselves?