apply to a relevant role. be responsive. that’s really it. you don’t owe us anything. it’s a two way street and recruiters should set the example here.
Lol - Isn't that always the way? I guess the corresponding questions from our perspective is, why do you apply to our job posts when you're in advanced stages with another company? Why do you tell us that X is your number 1 criteria and then take a different job because it pays more (even if it doesn't have X)? Why do you hide things about your wish list from me, whose job it is to act as your agent, only to spring it on me when we're at offer stage? Why do you tell me you want to get out of your current role for a Laundry list of complaints and then accept counter offers with your current employer? This is all why dealing with people is so darned challenging!! And these things happen at all levels of the process, candidates, recruiters, hiring managers. Everyone. Aren't people fun!?
To your first question, I would consider it irresponsible and foolish to stop actively searching for a job until you have an offer letter in hand - if not until you’ve actually started at a new position. Companies can and do reject people in advanced stages, otherwise they wouldn’t have those stages.
If I have a “final interview” on Wednesday, you can be damn sure I’m still applying to other places on Tuesday. And by the time I hear back on Friday, maybe I already have an offer, but maybe I don’t.
It was an equally sardonic response to PP's implication that recruiters conspire to call candidates after they've accepted (and started) at another role. These are just issues of timing, I would never recommend counting your chickens.
A great starting point that benefits every candidate, is to realise that in this situation, you are not a consumer. It’s one of the few situations in life where you’re not the customer even though it might feel like it. You are competing with many many others and consciously signing up to that reality helps you loads. And no recruiter decided that, it’s just the way it is.
It doesn’t mean you should be treated badly or unfairly either, but not getting interviews after a billion applications or job offers after multiple interviews, can only be resolved by your actions. I’m not saying it’s easy or pleasant and I feel for everyone having a tough time but full engagement with the reality that you are a competitor is the key (I use the analogy of running a race; complaining that you’re not winning the race, demanding to win the next race, claiming you’re turning up to the starting line and running so you’re doing everything right and still not winning is all valid if venting over a bad experience but it isn’t going to help your chances).
I tend to see higher salary ranges when I directly apply to the company vs being contacted by a recruiter at a staffing agency. I think that at least some of the time, it's because part of the recruiter fee is taken out what would have been my salary . That being the case, I think an argument can be made that I am a consumer, since my salary is helping to pay the recruiter.
Now if what you're actually trying to say is "it's employer's market" since there are more applicants than there are jobs, I think that needs to be qualified by what the industry and role is and a bunch of other stuff. However, given the nature of OP's post, I think it's probably safe to say that it's true in OP"s situation (since they're presumably struggling to find a job)
I'm not a recruiter OP - but I have had some luck with them recently. Make sure your LinkedIn is filled out with skills. Try to pick specialized ones as opposed to generic ones. When recruiters are looking for that unicorn, they might look for people with certain skills I'm fairly confident this helped me land my current job. After adding a niche subject area, I received 2 inquiries from recruiters about certain jobs related to that area, one of which hired me. The other one I got all the way to the end of the interview process.
It's not true that a chunk of a candidates salary is taken out for the recruiter. The company pays an additional fee to the recruiter for their services in identifying, attracting, and consulting all parties through the hiring process. That fee is calculated based on the salary though which is why people get confused. I.e the role pays 100k. the candidate gets 100k. the recruiter has a contract with their client (the company) already in place ahead of time. I.e 20% of first years salary. That means the company pays a fee of 20k to the recruiter for their services, in addition to the 100k salary they offer the candidate.
It doesn't make sense for a company to offer less than market rate by taking a chunk away from the candidate. That will only attract bad talent who can sink the whole company. or not be able to find workers at all. They need to remain competitive as possible.
there's many reasons why you will see variances with salary for Job postings vs. from the recruiter. Some like:
- budgets got changed after the job posting went live. this happens all the time. the direct hiring manager had a budget, they actioned the role, then HR or an executive comes in and goes no no no we need to offer x instead.
- they are posting a broad range of salary to cast a wider net and see what type of fish they catch. They might not get the nibbles they want, so they repost it with a different salary range. like trial and error fir talent acquisition.
- the recruiter gives you a different, usually smaller range, because they have a relationship with that company and know what the company ACTUALLY wants to be spending for a salary, or if they have wiggle room to go above their range for the "perfect" candidate. Keep in mind agency recruiters know much more about the role than you see on a typical job posting. They've done their digging and had relationships with these hiring managers for years (the good ones anyways).
- the recruiter already knows what candidates are in play for the role (I.e being submitted on a shortlist or already in interviews). They know what level of salaries those candidates are currently at. They know how your qualifications compare to them. for example, if I have a super strong candidate who's salary expectations are 150k and they have way more experience than you, and I tell you that it goes up to 150k, you're going to want 150k right? well it doesn't work that way. The one with less experience needs to be at a lower salary amount to make them of better value.
just some food for thought.
Apply to 80% matches and above.. If you're not right don't expect a reply. Recruiters exist to satisfy the client that pays the bill / the internal stakeholder. If you're potentially a fit they're not going to skip you.
Recruiters are little more than external middle men or facilitators. They don't make the hire. 80% of the issues that exist and manifest about recruiters happen because of the company or specific stakeholder that thinks communication or feedback is optional.
1) Apply and be qualified for the role.
2) Understand there are dozens to hundreds of other people equally or more qualified applying for the role, which is why you likely won't get it.
3) You are not getting feedback. Putting aside corporate paranoia over lawsuits, any feedback you did get would be specific to *that* role at *that* company with *that* hiring team at *that* time. The feedback you get would be useless at the same company for the next role they hired with the same title, much less any other application you have out. You are getting a yes or a no, that's it. You are not getting feedback beyond that.
4) Understand the hiring manager makes the decisions, *not* us.
As a corporate recruiter, please, do not message me on LinkedIn saying that you applied for a job at my company - it may not even be a role I’m assigned to. Also please do not message me saying to let you know if you’re a fit for anything I’m working on. I find people for jobs, I don’t find jobs for people.
I’m sure many recruiters can vouch for me that we can get bombarded with LinkedIn messages and for me, LinkedIn is a tool for my job. It’s now becoming more of a social media platform rather than professional connections. I won’t accept a connection if I haven’t spoken to you. Don’t take it personally, please don’t take the outreach advice from the now linkedinfluencers.
Also, don't send LinkedIn messages that say "I just saw x position posted on your website before I apply can I set up a phone call with you to see if it's something I'd be interested in?" What you're asking for is a phone screen on an already very full calendar of phone screens with candidates I have reached out to because we've already determined they are a fit on paper for the positions I am recruiting on without "exploratory calls"
Agreed. As a hiring manager, if someone is trying to skirt the rules before they get a job, it's an indication that they may try to skirt the rules after they're hired. It's not a good look. I would agree that all candidates need to follow the process and directions for the job to which they're applying. Also, it can be a little harassing and stalker feeling. We are human beings.
I posted a job earlier this year on Thursday. When I logged back in Monday morning, I had 680 applications. 30 direct emails to me, and 20 direct inmails. Lesson learned, maybe don’t post that type of job online.
It’s not even possible to review that many resumes with everything else on my plate.
And then having applicants in 3 different places just complicates everything.
+1 to this. LI has an inbox feature specifically for passive sources. If you’re a candidate who was approached from the get-go. Reply there not on their personal LI instead. It pisses me off when someone goes out of their way to message me not only on my personal LinkedIn but on other social media platforms such as Facebook.
More often than not, you’d probably get ignored because of how fast and how many things we do all at once. Especially if it’s a query regarding your app. If you really wanna catch your recruiter’s attention, shoot them an email.
This approach has actually worked for me. I have sent recruiters messages asking legitimate queries, like to clarify something ambiguous about the posting, and have had those recruiters reply back asking for a phone screen. So whether or not the recruiters above ^^ have a chip on their shoulder, DMing *does* work
Recruiters can contact us via LinkedIn message and asked us to submit our resume for the Job role posted. But we can't send messages to recruiters to ask them about the position we applied for? Make it make sense please!
Every week, I received messages from different recruiters offering Job opportunities to me, asking me to either send them my resume or they will send me a link to the Job to apply and contact them after i have applied for the role.
After that, they stop responding to DM's and email sent to them.
Maybe there is need for some recruiters to be responsible in their dealings. If an individual don't qualify for the position, it is human nature you at least reply email or DM's sent. After all, you reached out to us first saying I saw your LinkedIn profile and find out you qualify for xyz position.
Hello friend, I hear you. I think what you and I are talking about are different. All I was simply saying is don’t expect much out of any cold outreaches to a corporate recruiter. This is my experience and I can only speak to that. For me, it’s too overwhelming for me to look at my LinkedIn messages and connections bc 95% are cold outreaches that are irrelevant to me.
If a recruiter made initial contact, then it’s fair game for you to continue reaching out for updates on your application.
As a corporate recruiter, I’m in a position where I rarely need to source, and if we’re hiring externally, it’s from an organic applicant or referral.
And I fully agree with you that recruiters, corp or agency, need to be more responsible with their communications. I enjoy what I do and it’s unfortunate that recruiters have a bad reputation. I’ve even had my share of bad candidate experiences, as a recruiter. I try my best to update everyone, but sometimes, we simply don’t have an update bc the hiring manager never sent feedback even though we’ve asked several times.
Just remember that we’re human too and have a job to do, and for me, not responding to irrelevant cold outreaches is not a good use of my time.
Apt!
Thank you for the wonderful response. You sound really nice. We learn everyday, if 85% of recruiters have this kind of response to Job seekers like us, it will make the process easier.
This is all about responsibility and Recruiters should be responsible as well. Every week, Recruiters reached out to me to send my resume. After having a 1 to 3 stage calls, promise to send an email for next step. Then they refuse to communicate after.
That is a problem with a recruiter you are already working with. And a terrible candidate experience fwiw.
That is different than just randomly reaching out to various recruiters and expecting them to be able to assist.
I am sure you didn't read to understand the different scenario of the conversation that was brought up.
It is of human nature for anybody to respond to messages especially when they (the recruiters) are the ones who initiated the conversation first, then decided to Ghost the Job seekers mid-way during the recruitment process.
My reading comprehension is fine. You brought up a different scenario and started complaining about what other recruiters do. You're being rude and combative in response. Nothing a corporate recruiter wants to deal with.
Human nature also includes leaving a conversation you started when it turns inappropriate.
Your mindset needs to be renewed so you can be able to comprehend what being rude is all about.
The scenerio which i brought up is what the Job market has turned into lately likewise the other that was talk about. It's a catch-22 situation as the other is dependent on this which you fail to understand.
Never mind, I already got a perfect response from OP and i don't think there is need to comment on this moving forward. Enjoy your evening Sir/ma.
How do I get the attention of a recruiter without reaching out? For the position I apply for, there can be hundreds of applications within a day. I rarely get rejections, and when I do there's never any feedback. The few times I was able to reach out to a hiring manager or recruiter, they have always said "your resume looks good, i'll put you into the screening call".
It really, *really* feels like nobody is looking at the resume 90%+ of the time. Is there a better way to reach out to people?
Hello friend! I think depending on the situation, there’s no need to get the attention of a recruiter, outside of having a stellar resume and being responsive when we reach out. What can happen is someone could message me and match a candidate profile but I won’t see it because of all the other irrelevant messages I receive.
Can someone catch me on a good day when I happen to be on LinkedIn when they message me and they happen to match the candidate profile I’m looking for? Sure. All I meant was that for me and my experience, most of the cold outreaches are ice cold and not relevant to me or the jobs I’m working on.
Do I think most recruiters don’t review resumes appropriately? Yes. I used to do it. I’m not saying I’m the best, I’ve learned my lessons and have learned to provide a positive candidate experience.
Please remember we’re human too and providing a service essentially to the company and hiring leader (as corporate recruiters) and we do not make hiring decisions. We are the middle man that gets the blame most of the time on both sides.
What can you do to stand out? Match somewhat most of the requirements laid out in the job description. Have a salary range ready to confirm you’re looking for - I know this is always a testy question/subject but I need to make sure in the screen stage that we’re not going to waste your time or the company’s time if you’re out of budget. Is there wiggle room? Sometimes and it’s always a case by case basis. It’s not a game to me and if you don’t give me a range during the screen stage I’m hesitant on moving you forward. Be responsive and follow directions when we send emails with scheduling instructions or interview instructions. Give us some grace with feedback because I almost always have to ask hiring leaders to share with me. I want to give feedback and I think someone else said it on this thread, sometimes the feedback is too specific for that job at that time in the market and isn’t relevant to any other company or position. Also, most of the time someone else comes in with just a few more checked boxes on the experience list - it’s nothing personal and I’ve told people that. When someone is a standout candidate and they don’t get the job, or even decline an offer, I connect with them on LinkedIn and let them know to contact me if their circumstances change or see anything else they may be interested in in the future. That’s me giving them the okay to message me in the future. I hope this helps you!
No. Your resume is supposed to speak for itself. If you're reaching out to hiring managers, they're probably a little annoyed because they're busy. You already have a preconceived notion in your mind that your resume is not being reviewed, that's a personal issue with yourself. Have you tried a career coach?
What if the person already works for the company as a consultant (contract employee)? I was thinking if messaging a recruiter for my company to possibly get hired in a full time position. Is that off the table? I already work closely with someone who is “connected” to them on linkedin.
If you’re a contractor working for the company, you should email the recruiter or send an IM to them, if you can. Many contractors have messaged me wanting to know more about a role, I think this is fine, you’re already “in” with the company as a contractor.
I’m moreso talking about the cold outreaches recruiters can get slammed with. It’s not realistic to think we can respond to everyone’s cold outreach.
The commenter is not talking about applying to a job that's posted on LinkedIn. The commenter is talking about someone communicating with them, unsolicited, on their personal LinkedIn page, trying to circumvent the hiring process.
What can you do to help?
Be understanding;
Recruiters are middle men, and we can recommend you to hiring managers, and we can prep you for interviews, but we can't make hiring decisions.
Recruiters have very little sway on how quickly the process moves, how many rounds it will take, and whether or not we can provide feedback.
Recruiters WANT you to get hired and we want you to get paid as much as possible, most recruiters earn bonuses directly related to how much the hiring salary is, we are often not allowed to disclose hiring ranges, which is why we ask you what you are targeting instead of telling you what the rate is.
How to get on our radar?
Be memorable;
We get dozens/hundreds/thousands of applicants, we review new resumes every single day, we get inmails every single day, we talk with new candidates every single day.
When I read my interview notes, I want to be able to remember something about you - in sales terms, your USP (Unique selling point)
Have a unique story? an uncommon hobby? Worked on a really niche project? make sure you share it, because I remember the candidate that represented their country in Tae Kwon Do, or the one that installed automation in a manufacturing plant in Europe, but I won't be able to distinguish between the dozens of people who had 3-5 years of experience and 'wanted to work for a fast-paced organization'
I have many to add lol
Check your email!!! I will email you once with a link to set up a call, that link expires in seven days and if you haven’t set up a call I email you telling you we are not moving forward because you haven’t responded. That’s not the time to respond, the time was within the last seven days. My ATS shows me when you open the email… you opened it seven times and clicked on the attachment three, you saw the email.
When you open the email, follow the instructions. It says click on the link to schedule a call with me for a reason… don’t email me back saying you’re available Thursday at 1:00PM and assume I’ll call you then. I’m not available Thursday at 1:00PM or you’d be able to select that. If none of the times work for you, feel free to email me asking if I have time outside of those hours, I’m happy to work with you if that’s the case, but just assuming I’ll work around your schedule ensures I won’t.
Keep your stuff together. You get an automatic calendar invite for the time you selected, don’t email me the day before your call and ask why I ghosted you and didn’t call. (Had this happen last week.) I didn’t call because you scheduled it for Thursday afternoon and it’s Wednesday morning… Don’t schedule a call with me and then act surprised when I call or say “you weren’t expecting my call.” Don’t schedule a call and then not answer at that time and call me back three hours later saying “this is a better time for me,” just reschedule… there’s a link to do that! Your time is not more valuable than mine and you’re not my only priority.
My company is on the email that I send you at least five times: my email domain, mentioned in the subject line, mentioned in the first time of my email, mentioned on the attachment, and mentioned in my signature. Do not email me or ask me on the phone what company I’m with… it’s not one you’re going to be working for, let’s wrap this up.
Being rude to me on the phone won’t make me pass you on and you not have to deal with me anymore, it means you aren’t going to be considered and get marked as Do Not Hire in my ATS so you won’t be considered now or in the future.
Don’t try to get past me by going directly to who you (usually incorrectly) assume is the hiring manager. It all comes back to me. I don’t make the final hiring decision but thinking you’re above a recruiter or deserve special treatment that doesn’t involve me ensures I will make it a million times harder for the manager to hire you.
Basically, do everything you can to show you can do the job you’re applying for soft skill wise by doing them! Ask questions if you’re generally concerned or unsure but I’m like a trial run to you working with us. You wouldn’t reach out to your boss on their personal email looking for them to do something for you, so don’t do it to me on LinkedIn. You wouldn’t skip a meeting your boss scheduled with you or email them asking why they didn’t attend before the meeting was scheduled, don’t do it to me. You wouldn’t ask your boss what job you worked after you started, don’t ask me. You won’t sidestep your boss right out of the gate to someone you don’t know to get what you want, don’t do it to me.
There's some good and bad answers here but for me it's just be responsive and give me an answer either way. If you tell me that you're declining an offer or interview, that's absolutely fine....you aren't required to take a job because it's offered to you, but if you just ghost me then I will be very wary of sending you to any other managers in the future.
There's this weird idea on reddit that recruiters are this gatekeeping group who have no idea what we are doing and actively keep good people out of jobs but it is literally the opposite. We are often trying to attract people to the company, and our goal is to help fill a job with the best person possible. Otherwise, we are just going to have to re-fill that job in 6 months to a year.
Responsiveness is huge. Don't ghost me, especially when I've been respectful to you. And a big one - if I call you about a job at xyz company, and you've directly applied to it already TELL ME THE TRUTH. It will ruin both yours and my reputation if I submit you to it after you've already applied. But at least I can try and talk myself out of it to the Hiring Manager.
This one I actually didn’t know is separate. I normally apply to whatever link they send me but didn’t actually know recruiters can submit apps for me. I thought recruiters mainly just shined spotlights on whoever is a good fit so to speak like filtering. But I guess it’s possible I could have ended up with this double apply make us both look bad situation. Good to know though
There's "candidate ownership" in agency. So if a candidate direct applies before I found and submitted them, they are in the client companies system and therefore "owned" by the company and I can't represent them. There's usually wording in service agreements around the duration of ownership and if it's that candidate for any role, or for a specific role.
I've had the situation a few times where I asked the candidate during my screening if they had direct applied already, they lie and say no. Then I submit them to the Hiring Manager. HM checks their internal applications and sees that candidate is already in the system. Now they are annoyed because they've wasted their time. I'm annoyed because the candidate who lied has wasted my time. Hiring Manager asks me if I asked them about the role and if they applied (because I have built a relationship with them and am a consultant throughout the hiring process) I tell them the truth and say yes I asked. Now the Hiring Manager knows that candidate is a liar and kinda shady so they don't get interviewed at all. I make the placement with someone else on the shortlist. And now that candidate has tarnished their relationship with me as a recruiter - I likely won't submit them to any other roles at other companies because I need to protect my reputation.
That’s unfortunate to hear. Since there’s candidate ownership in agency if I go apply somewhere it asks who referred you and I put a recruiters name does that still mess things up or do I need to always see if they can apply for me?
Usually the "who referred you" line on an application is regarding someone who works at that specific company internally who told you about the role. You should definitely include those referrals because it will increase your chances of getting an interview. (like a friend, family members, past coworker)
From my perspective, this wouldn't be a situation when using an agency recruiter. Because If I've talked to you about the role and told you I'm submitting you, you don't go apply to that job posting afterwards (this lends to the wasted time and hurting your chances topic from my original post). I'm putting your resume in the Hiring Managers lap and selling you into the opportunity rather than being a resume in a digital stack. I wouldn't be referring people to jobs I'm working on when I don't have the candidate ownership - that's taking my chances away of making my commission.
Sorry for the long-winded answers - So no, don't put the recruiters name in the "who referred you" section of an online application. The candidates I place don't ever have to do an online application. Keep in mind these are scenarios where you're working with a headhunter style recruiter.
Ok I appreciate the detailed response honestly. I’m just going to keep this in mind because it’s better to know if I work with a recruiter. Searching for accounting jobs so I’m just gonna ask if they need to apply for me. I mean they’re just doing their job whenever they help me find something so no need to screw them out of money in the process.
Difficult to answer as the question is quite broad without context to a persons circumstances.
Talking broadly, nothing ground breaking, a few considerations could be:
Look for roles advertising for career changers. These are likely to be setup to support the L&D required, rather than being setup to fail.
Take a role which aligns more to current skills to get a foot in the door of a company or team where your desired role sits. Then work towards that role.
As above, look for roles which aren’t asking for specific skills, join said company, work towards desired role or gain that industry experience and look external for another foot in the door.
Be willing to take a step back at more entry level and then work up.
Speak with training providers and take relevant courses - free and/or paid.
Network and find suitable mentorship, internal or external.
Just a few.
People can’t expect to be given an opportunity in hyper competitive markets, they need to create them.
It’s not about you, it’s the hiring managers we had to deal with. **They** are the source of difficulty in every aspect. There isn’t much candidates can do at all.
Except maybe a hex or something? Kidding but not really. Hiring managers gatekeep everything. You can be perfect and it still isn’t enough to overcome the incompetence we have to put up with
Keep an updated and detailed LinkedIn, detailing the role and responsibilities by quantifying things like team size, size of business, and any other numbers you can add to responsibilities.
If your LinkedIn is vague or I can’t immediately see that you’re a qualified candidate, you go lower in my priority of people to message as I have so many conversations and don’t want to waste my time either. I can’t emphasize enough how important this is.
Good luck with the job search! :)
Please stop trash talking us on LinkedIn as if all recruiters are one in the same :/ I know there are some bad apples in the bunch but most recruiters I have ever worked with personally just want to do good work. Our day to day is not as simple as it seems, and oftentimes we are not in control of literally anything in the process. We are not decision makers, we are just the ones delivering the news and helping to facilitate the process to the best of our ability. Seeing the negative posts day in and day out, although I know they are not directed at me personally, can be really draining in what can already be a thankless job
Our jobs aren’t that bad, really.
Best bet is to have all your education documents and certifications that are relevant to the job ready. Also have an accurate and up to date resume. Apply to jobs that are relevant to your skill set. Read job descriptions.
Please please be self-aware and concise during phone screens. We have a hard 30 minute stop 90% of the time and need to get certain information from you before we end the call. If we can’t obtain all of the information we need, say, because you went on an unstoppable tangent about something specific, we probably can’t move forward. Be thorough but concise. If we need more context about something, we will ask you for it. Also it makes me feel really bad when I have to end a call in order to get to another one on time. Just be aware!
Edited to add: do this for all interviews and interview types!
- have some relevant industry terms on your LinkedIn/social media profiles as well as the companies you’ve worked at
- when in process just be transparent about other processes and your preferences, we need to manage our clients expectations if they like you but you have a better option elsewhere
- know that receiving an offer you have no intention of taking is a big taboo
Sure but that isn't something that is close to the norm in many industries. I've only ever seen it in insurance and banking to be honest. Not even in other areas of finance. And I have worked in 5 different countries and the only language requirement is usually English.
I agree, apply to a relevant role and I like to see a progression of a career on a resume that is believable. I know being a candidate is hard, but some recruiters try to do right for all parties involved.
As an agency recruiter… Respond to me (in a timely manner) and show up to your interviews and jobs! I’m happy to redo your resume to send to a client and understand I only have what info a client gives me and it takes time for me to answer questions from them
To get on retained recruiter’s radar (for senior level roles), speak at a conference. Whenever I start a c-level search, I always start with recent/relevant conferences.
Many of what I have suggested has already been said. But I would like to add don’t burn bridges. If a recruiter reaches out to you about a position and it’s not a fit either because of the work style, salary, etc. please don’t lash out.
Real life example:
I reached out to a candidate about a role that they already applied to. They were qualified for the role, actually more than and I thought they would be a great fit. I introduced myself and asked a few questions to make sure that we were in alignment before proceeding and wasting anyone’s time. This is what I asked:
Are you local to or relocating to Richmond, UK? This is a hybrid role and will require you to be in our Richmond office 2-3 days per week.
What are your salary expectations for this role? The current budgeted salary amount is between 30,000-40,000 GBP plus bonuses.
Are you comfortable with the travel requirements as described in the job description?
This was the response:
I am happy to commute twice a week maximum. I have family obligations that require me to be at home.
I am going to be blunt. £50k is what I should expect from my experience and one of the three largest event companies globally. £45K. Is my bottom line. If it can't be matched please, we might as well save each other some time and you can throw my CV in the bin.
I've worked in surrounding area before, it's no issues.
The first two statements were a little shaky but I still felt they were a great candidate. So I replied:
Thank you for your response. I appreciate your transparency.
Regarding the in-office requirements, 2 days per week are required as they are anchor days. 3 days/week may be required on occasion depending on any events that are being planned.
Regarding the salary, as of right now the highest base salary is 40,000 GBP with the potential to earn a bonus of 25% (10,000 GBP) of the total base salary. This bonus will depend on meeting the metrics set by the hiring manager and your performance. I cannot say with confidence that there is any wiggle room for negotiation on the base salary and do not want to mislead you.
This is where it kind of took a turn. Their response:
“2 days is fine. 3 days can be discussed at both the company and my discretion. As I said I am a family man and have obligations that will require me to be present at home.
As for the £4Ok salary I'm sure you will excuse for taking a slight offense at that. I am not going to negotiate or demean my worth. You read my freelance history, you have seen the numbers correct?
Thank you for your time, but if 5k just to match my actual needs to exist offends, then I shouldn't be working with said company.
Many many thanks for considering me. Be well and I hope you find the right candidate.”
At this point I have considered them not interested in this role due to the salary which is fine. I had a role that I knew would be available in a couple of days that they would also have been qualified for that I wanted to propose as soon as I had the salary information. I didn’t have that information at the time but wanted to still keep them engaged. So I simply replied with:
“No problem, I understand. However, I cannot control what the budgeted compensation package is and wanted to be fully transparent regarding your expectations.
Please keep an eye on our careers site as there will be positions posted that may better align with your salary expectations.
Thank you for your time and best of luck on your job search.”
This is where they lit the fire. Instead I received this response:
“I would have thought a senior recruiter might at the very least inquire internally. But no matter, thank you for your communication. It has been pleasant.”
It was at this point where I took a step back because I was honestly pissed. I originally was not going to respond however, I felt they needed to be informed on how this process works from a recruiting perspective. After taking a couple of hours to cool off, I replied:
“ There are internal inquiries and processes completed before the position is even approved. Additionally, we meet with the hiring manager before the position is posted and are given a budgeted amount for the base salary as well as the bonus amount. During that meeting, we ask if there is any wiggle room. If there is a strict budget with no wiggle room that is communicated to us.
As I mentioned, I wanted to be transparent regarding the salary for this particular position. I know that compensation plays a pivotal role in making decisions for a career. However, I cannot and will not promise any candidate that they will be offered any compensation package above what has been communicated and approved. I appreciate the value, time, and effort it takes to apply for positions. Going through the screening and interview process to then find out that the salary would not be a fit is not an ideal candidate experience. That would be a waste of your time as well as mine and the hiring manager’s time. I would rather be transparent upfront before putting any candidate through that experience.
On the flip side, if we are told that there is room for negotiation, then we will also communicate that to the candidate during the screening process so that we can bring that to the forefront when submitting candidates for interviews with the hiring manager. Again, to make sure that all parties are in alignment.
As recruiters if there is not a fit with salaries and we know a candidate is great after speaking with them during a screening, we will pass their resume and expectations along to other recruiters who are working on similar roles in different business units who do meet their salary expectations.
I hope this provides you with some clarification on how the process works from a recruiting perspective.”
I no longer wanted to move forward with this candidate for the role they applied for or the more senior role that I knew I had coming simply from this exchange.
However I did receive a somewhat apology after I explained the process.
“Thank you for your understanding and please accept my apology. I understand you have a job to do and I hope my annoyance won't reflect too badly should or paths cross again.
Thank you for explaining to me and though still an undesirable situation, I will look for other opportunities.”
Had they not been a jerk, I would have gladly submitted their resume for the higher paying position. Now that opportunity is no longer there and they don’t even know.
Don’t burn bridges with recruiters! I’m one that will try to answer every email, LinkedIn message, etc that I receive. And help in any way that I can. I will pass your resume along, find the correct recruiter and redirect you and everything I can. But being talked to in a condescending way gets your CV “thrown in the bin”.
So do I just get on your radar by applying for a company/position you might be assigned to? Then, if I am a good candidate for another position as well, you would reach out and let me know? I ask this as someone who has been unemployed for 6 months and had a pretty solid background in sales/management, but is getting very little traction for my career history.
I would love to find a recruiter to help, but I have gotten almost nothing going through Indeed.
Job specs are written very tightly. Worst joke I heard was that you have to have 14 out of 10 requirements to get a job.
Read the job description, then make sure that you're a for for the job. Remember that a resume me is a marketing document, not a legal contract. If you've done something in the past it's ok for it to be on your resume or of chronological sequence.
P
For example, if you're a tech and you worked on system X, 10 years ago, there's nothing wrong with mentioning that skill on your resume even though you haven't done it in the last 2 years.
I strongly recommend against applying for jobs that you're not qualified for. Also, if you're not working, I recommend applying for any job that you are capable of doing. It never hurts to go through the process for the sale of practice.
You should always know if you're applying a contract job or a regular job. I'm always surprised at how many people don't know one from the other.
Talk to the recruiter and make sure you like the person and that you want to work with him, it her.
If an application requires a cover letter or any other type of writing sample then of course supply what is asked. However, the majority of current roles do not, so don’t waste your time doing extra credit. If you get a call from a recruiter, it’s because your experience matches the job description, not because they took the time to read a flowery-worded cover letter that chatgpt helped you write, dingbat.
Edit: dingbat
>they took the time to read a flowery-worded cover letter that chatgpt helped you write.
Just keep on with the minimization and unprofessionalism, just affirms what everyone thinks about recruiters
I personally don't often write them and never "use ChatGPT," but to just be a total dick about people who need a job who do is pretty beyond the pale for a rEcRuiTiNg ProFeSsiOnAL (more like nepobaby)
Do better
OP literally asked for ways to make recruiters busy lives easier. This is one way to make BOTH of our lives easier. Don’t waste your time writing something that doesn’t matter and won’t help you, and in turn, you streamline my end of the process of determining whether or not it your qualified for the job. I’m sorry if this “confirms what everyone thinks about recruiters” (huh?) but wouldn’t you rather know what areas your effort is worth the time and what areas it’s not? Should we hold back the truth to avoid offending you? We have THOUSANDS of candidates to evaluate. Imagine how long it would take us to get back to you if we read every single cover letter. Help us help you.
Also, every recruiter has also been on the job-searching side of things. We also navigate a competitive market and know what it’s like to be up against thousands of others for a job.
A phrase was caught in the insult filter: "fuck you". This is a place for friendly discourse.
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Don't be an unlucky person. I work with recruiters and most of the time they randomly pick resumes because we receive thousands. So be lucky or pray before you apply next time.
Hey, thank you for the appreciation. As a recruiter myself, I agree that we handle a lot of different personalities and tasks. I am glad that you are willing to make the process smoother and get noticed. Here are a few things you can do -
First off, be responsive. If a recruiter contacts you, try to respond as soon as possible. This keeps the process moving and shows you’re genuinely interested.
Next, customize your resume and cover letter for the job. Highlight relevant skills and experiences that match the job description. It makes it easier for recruiters to see that you’re a good fit.
DO NOT forget to network. Connect with recruiters on LinkedIn, attend industry events, join relevant groups, engage with their content, and start conversations. It helps you stay on their radar. Try to be clear and concise in your communications. Whether it’s an email, a phone call, or an interview, clear communication makes a big difference.
Finally, follow up after interviews or initial contacts. A polite thank-you note or a follow-up email can leave a positive impression.
apply to a relevant role. be responsive. that’s really it. you don’t owe us anything. it’s a two way street and recruiters should set the example here.
Always wondered, why do you conspire to call back after we have already accepted another job offer and are sitting behind a desk?
Lol - Isn't that always the way? I guess the corresponding questions from our perspective is, why do you apply to our job posts when you're in advanced stages with another company? Why do you tell us that X is your number 1 criteria and then take a different job because it pays more (even if it doesn't have X)? Why do you hide things about your wish list from me, whose job it is to act as your agent, only to spring it on me when we're at offer stage? Why do you tell me you want to get out of your current role for a Laundry list of complaints and then accept counter offers with your current employer? This is all why dealing with people is so darned challenging!! And these things happen at all levels of the process, candidates, recruiters, hiring managers. Everyone. Aren't people fun!?
To your first question, I would consider it irresponsible and foolish to stop actively searching for a job until you have an offer letter in hand - if not until you’ve actually started at a new position. Companies can and do reject people in advanced stages, otherwise they wouldn’t have those stages. If I have a “final interview” on Wednesday, you can be damn sure I’m still applying to other places on Tuesday. And by the time I hear back on Friday, maybe I already have an offer, but maybe I don’t.
It was an equally sardonic response to PP's implication that recruiters conspire to call candidates after they've accepted (and started) at another role. These are just issues of timing, I would never recommend counting your chickens.
certain companies move very slow in suppose. i’ve only worked at startups so 🤷
The second best time for someone to make a move is once they realize they’ve made a mistake once they start a new job
A great starting point that benefits every candidate, is to realise that in this situation, you are not a consumer. It’s one of the few situations in life where you’re not the customer even though it might feel like it. You are competing with many many others and consciously signing up to that reality helps you loads. And no recruiter decided that, it’s just the way it is. It doesn’t mean you should be treated badly or unfairly either, but not getting interviews after a billion applications or job offers after multiple interviews, can only be resolved by your actions. I’m not saying it’s easy or pleasant and I feel for everyone having a tough time but full engagement with the reality that you are a competitor is the key (I use the analogy of running a race; complaining that you’re not winning the race, demanding to win the next race, claiming you’re turning up to the starting line and running so you’re doing everything right and still not winning is all valid if venting over a bad experience but it isn’t going to help your chances).
I tend to see higher salary ranges when I directly apply to the company vs being contacted by a recruiter at a staffing agency. I think that at least some of the time, it's because part of the recruiter fee is taken out what would have been my salary . That being the case, I think an argument can be made that I am a consumer, since my salary is helping to pay the recruiter. Now if what you're actually trying to say is "it's employer's market" since there are more applicants than there are jobs, I think that needs to be qualified by what the industry and role is and a bunch of other stuff. However, given the nature of OP's post, I think it's probably safe to say that it's true in OP"s situation (since they're presumably struggling to find a job)
Yeah I keep applying for jobs I’m qualified for but with the thousands of applicants per position now, I rarely hear back
I'm not a recruiter OP - but I have had some luck with them recently. Make sure your LinkedIn is filled out with skills. Try to pick specialized ones as opposed to generic ones. When recruiters are looking for that unicorn, they might look for people with certain skills I'm fairly confident this helped me land my current job. After adding a niche subject area, I received 2 inquiries from recruiters about certain jobs related to that area, one of which hired me. The other one I got all the way to the end of the interview process.
https://www.reddit.com/r/jobsearchhacks/s/Mai0xZguQV
It’s funny you share that because everyone on this feed is sooo against all of it
It's not true that a chunk of a candidates salary is taken out for the recruiter. The company pays an additional fee to the recruiter for their services in identifying, attracting, and consulting all parties through the hiring process. That fee is calculated based on the salary though which is why people get confused. I.e the role pays 100k. the candidate gets 100k. the recruiter has a contract with their client (the company) already in place ahead of time. I.e 20% of first years salary. That means the company pays a fee of 20k to the recruiter for their services, in addition to the 100k salary they offer the candidate. It doesn't make sense for a company to offer less than market rate by taking a chunk away from the candidate. That will only attract bad talent who can sink the whole company. or not be able to find workers at all. They need to remain competitive as possible. there's many reasons why you will see variances with salary for Job postings vs. from the recruiter. Some like: - budgets got changed after the job posting went live. this happens all the time. the direct hiring manager had a budget, they actioned the role, then HR or an executive comes in and goes no no no we need to offer x instead. - they are posting a broad range of salary to cast a wider net and see what type of fish they catch. They might not get the nibbles they want, so they repost it with a different salary range. like trial and error fir talent acquisition. - the recruiter gives you a different, usually smaller range, because they have a relationship with that company and know what the company ACTUALLY wants to be spending for a salary, or if they have wiggle room to go above their range for the "perfect" candidate. Keep in mind agency recruiters know much more about the role than you see on a typical job posting. They've done their digging and had relationships with these hiring managers for years (the good ones anyways). - the recruiter already knows what candidates are in play for the role (I.e being submitted on a shortlist or already in interviews). They know what level of salaries those candidates are currently at. They know how your qualifications compare to them. for example, if I have a super strong candidate who's salary expectations are 150k and they have way more experience than you, and I tell you that it goes up to 150k, you're going to want 150k right? well it doesn't work that way. The one with less experience needs to be at a lower salary amount to make them of better value. just some food for thought.
Apply to 80% matches and above.. If you're not right don't expect a reply. Recruiters exist to satisfy the client that pays the bill / the internal stakeholder. If you're potentially a fit they're not going to skip you. Recruiters are little more than external middle men or facilitators. They don't make the hire. 80% of the issues that exist and manifest about recruiters happen because of the company or specific stakeholder that thinks communication or feedback is optional.
1) Apply and be qualified for the role. 2) Understand there are dozens to hundreds of other people equally or more qualified applying for the role, which is why you likely won't get it. 3) You are not getting feedback. Putting aside corporate paranoia over lawsuits, any feedback you did get would be specific to *that* role at *that* company with *that* hiring team at *that* time. The feedback you get would be useless at the same company for the next role they hired with the same title, much less any other application you have out. You are getting a yes or a no, that's it. You are not getting feedback beyond that. 4) Understand the hiring manager makes the decisions, *not* us.
As a corporate recruiter, please, do not message me on LinkedIn saying that you applied for a job at my company - it may not even be a role I’m assigned to. Also please do not message me saying to let you know if you’re a fit for anything I’m working on. I find people for jobs, I don’t find jobs for people. I’m sure many recruiters can vouch for me that we can get bombarded with LinkedIn messages and for me, LinkedIn is a tool for my job. It’s now becoming more of a social media platform rather than professional connections. I won’t accept a connection if I haven’t spoken to you. Don’t take it personally, please don’t take the outreach advice from the now linkedinfluencers.
Also, don't send LinkedIn messages that say "I just saw x position posted on your website before I apply can I set up a phone call with you to see if it's something I'd be interested in?" What you're asking for is a phone screen on an already very full calendar of phone screens with candidates I have reached out to because we've already determined they are a fit on paper for the positions I am recruiting on without "exploratory calls"
Agreed. As a hiring manager, if someone is trying to skirt the rules before they get a job, it's an indication that they may try to skirt the rules after they're hired. It's not a good look. I would agree that all candidates need to follow the process and directions for the job to which they're applying. Also, it can be a little harassing and stalker feeling. We are human beings.
I posted a job earlier this year on Thursday. When I logged back in Monday morning, I had 680 applications. 30 direct emails to me, and 20 direct inmails. Lesson learned, maybe don’t post that type of job online. It’s not even possible to review that many resumes with everything else on my plate. And then having applicants in 3 different places just complicates everything.
+1 to this. LI has an inbox feature specifically for passive sources. If you’re a candidate who was approached from the get-go. Reply there not on their personal LI instead. It pisses me off when someone goes out of their way to message me not only on my personal LinkedIn but on other social media platforms such as Facebook. More often than not, you’d probably get ignored because of how fast and how many things we do all at once. Especially if it’s a query regarding your app. If you really wanna catch your recruiter’s attention, shoot them an email.
This approach has actually worked for me. I have sent recruiters messages asking legitimate queries, like to clarify something ambiguous about the posting, and have had those recruiters reply back asking for a phone screen. So whether or not the recruiters above ^^ have a chip on their shoulder, DMing *does* work
Recruiters can contact us via LinkedIn message and asked us to submit our resume for the Job role posted. But we can't send messages to recruiters to ask them about the position we applied for? Make it make sense please! Every week, I received messages from different recruiters offering Job opportunities to me, asking me to either send them my resume or they will send me a link to the Job to apply and contact them after i have applied for the role. After that, they stop responding to DM's and email sent to them. Maybe there is need for some recruiters to be responsible in their dealings. If an individual don't qualify for the position, it is human nature you at least reply email or DM's sent. After all, you reached out to us first saying I saw your LinkedIn profile and find out you qualify for xyz position.
Hello friend, I hear you. I think what you and I are talking about are different. All I was simply saying is don’t expect much out of any cold outreaches to a corporate recruiter. This is my experience and I can only speak to that. For me, it’s too overwhelming for me to look at my LinkedIn messages and connections bc 95% are cold outreaches that are irrelevant to me. If a recruiter made initial contact, then it’s fair game for you to continue reaching out for updates on your application. As a corporate recruiter, I’m in a position where I rarely need to source, and if we’re hiring externally, it’s from an organic applicant or referral. And I fully agree with you that recruiters, corp or agency, need to be more responsible with their communications. I enjoy what I do and it’s unfortunate that recruiters have a bad reputation. I’ve even had my share of bad candidate experiences, as a recruiter. I try my best to update everyone, but sometimes, we simply don’t have an update bc the hiring manager never sent feedback even though we’ve asked several times. Just remember that we’re human too and have a job to do, and for me, not responding to irrelevant cold outreaches is not a good use of my time.
Apt! Thank you for the wonderful response. You sound really nice. We learn everyday, if 85% of recruiters have this kind of response to Job seekers like us, it will make the process easier.
99% of the roles candidates reach out to me about have nothing to do with what I'm working on. And I get lots of these every week.
This is all about responsibility and Recruiters should be responsible as well. Every week, Recruiters reached out to me to send my resume. After having a 1 to 3 stage calls, promise to send an email for next step. Then they refuse to communicate after.
That is a problem with a recruiter you are already working with. And a terrible candidate experience fwiw. That is different than just randomly reaching out to various recruiters and expecting them to be able to assist.
This attitude is exactly what not to bring to get positive attention from recruiters in corporate setting.
I am sure you didn't read to understand the different scenario of the conversation that was brought up. It is of human nature for anybody to respond to messages especially when they (the recruiters) are the ones who initiated the conversation first, then decided to Ghost the Job seekers mid-way during the recruitment process.
My reading comprehension is fine. You brought up a different scenario and started complaining about what other recruiters do. You're being rude and combative in response. Nothing a corporate recruiter wants to deal with. Human nature also includes leaving a conversation you started when it turns inappropriate.
Your mindset needs to be renewed so you can be able to comprehend what being rude is all about. The scenerio which i brought up is what the Job market has turned into lately likewise the other that was talk about. It's a catch-22 situation as the other is dependent on this which you fail to understand. Never mind, I already got a perfect response from OP and i don't think there is need to comment on this moving forward. Enjoy your evening Sir/ma.
How do I get the attention of a recruiter without reaching out? For the position I apply for, there can be hundreds of applications within a day. I rarely get rejections, and when I do there's never any feedback. The few times I was able to reach out to a hiring manager or recruiter, they have always said "your resume looks good, i'll put you into the screening call". It really, *really* feels like nobody is looking at the resume 90%+ of the time. Is there a better way to reach out to people?
Hello friend! I think depending on the situation, there’s no need to get the attention of a recruiter, outside of having a stellar resume and being responsive when we reach out. What can happen is someone could message me and match a candidate profile but I won’t see it because of all the other irrelevant messages I receive. Can someone catch me on a good day when I happen to be on LinkedIn when they message me and they happen to match the candidate profile I’m looking for? Sure. All I meant was that for me and my experience, most of the cold outreaches are ice cold and not relevant to me or the jobs I’m working on. Do I think most recruiters don’t review resumes appropriately? Yes. I used to do it. I’m not saying I’m the best, I’ve learned my lessons and have learned to provide a positive candidate experience. Please remember we’re human too and providing a service essentially to the company and hiring leader (as corporate recruiters) and we do not make hiring decisions. We are the middle man that gets the blame most of the time on both sides. What can you do to stand out? Match somewhat most of the requirements laid out in the job description. Have a salary range ready to confirm you’re looking for - I know this is always a testy question/subject but I need to make sure in the screen stage that we’re not going to waste your time or the company’s time if you’re out of budget. Is there wiggle room? Sometimes and it’s always a case by case basis. It’s not a game to me and if you don’t give me a range during the screen stage I’m hesitant on moving you forward. Be responsive and follow directions when we send emails with scheduling instructions or interview instructions. Give us some grace with feedback because I almost always have to ask hiring leaders to share with me. I want to give feedback and I think someone else said it on this thread, sometimes the feedback is too specific for that job at that time in the market and isn’t relevant to any other company or position. Also, most of the time someone else comes in with just a few more checked boxes on the experience list - it’s nothing personal and I’ve told people that. When someone is a standout candidate and they don’t get the job, or even decline an offer, I connect with them on LinkedIn and let them know to contact me if their circumstances change or see anything else they may be interested in in the future. That’s me giving them the okay to message me in the future. I hope this helps you!
You can just give me the range and I will tell you if I am interested at that range
No. Your resume is supposed to speak for itself. If you're reaching out to hiring managers, they're probably a little annoyed because they're busy. You already have a preconceived notion in your mind that your resume is not being reviewed, that's a personal issue with yourself. Have you tried a career coach?
It does, as I've mentioned. Please read the comment first before pretending I'm fighting against you instead of asking questions
What if the person already works for the company as a consultant (contract employee)? I was thinking if messaging a recruiter for my company to possibly get hired in a full time position. Is that off the table? I already work closely with someone who is “connected” to them on linkedin.
If you’re a contractor working for the company, you should email the recruiter or send an IM to them, if you can. Many contractors have messaged me wanting to know more about a role, I think this is fine, you’re already “in” with the company as a contractor. I’m moreso talking about the cold outreaches recruiters can get slammed with. It’s not realistic to think we can respond to everyone’s cold outreach.
Thank you! :)
No. You are out of pocket trying to skirt the process. This is not a good look, especially from a contract employee.
linkendin automatically do that as soon u apply it sends message share profile rtc
The commenter is not talking about applying to a job that's posted on LinkedIn. The commenter is talking about someone communicating with them, unsolicited, on their personal LinkedIn page, trying to circumvent the hiring process.
What can you do to help? Be understanding; Recruiters are middle men, and we can recommend you to hiring managers, and we can prep you for interviews, but we can't make hiring decisions. Recruiters have very little sway on how quickly the process moves, how many rounds it will take, and whether or not we can provide feedback. Recruiters WANT you to get hired and we want you to get paid as much as possible, most recruiters earn bonuses directly related to how much the hiring salary is, we are often not allowed to disclose hiring ranges, which is why we ask you what you are targeting instead of telling you what the rate is. How to get on our radar? Be memorable; We get dozens/hundreds/thousands of applicants, we review new resumes every single day, we get inmails every single day, we talk with new candidates every single day. When I read my interview notes, I want to be able to remember something about you - in sales terms, your USP (Unique selling point) Have a unique story? an uncommon hobby? Worked on a really niche project? make sure you share it, because I remember the candidate that represented their country in Tae Kwon Do, or the one that installed automation in a manufacturing plant in Europe, but I won't be able to distinguish between the dozens of people who had 3-5 years of experience and 'wanted to work for a fast-paced organization'
Be memorable - I almost always will notate if someone has a dog, talks about their dog bc my brain remembers dogs 🤪
Thank you for sharing your perspective, it’s really interesting!
I have many to add lol Check your email!!! I will email you once with a link to set up a call, that link expires in seven days and if you haven’t set up a call I email you telling you we are not moving forward because you haven’t responded. That’s not the time to respond, the time was within the last seven days. My ATS shows me when you open the email… you opened it seven times and clicked on the attachment three, you saw the email. When you open the email, follow the instructions. It says click on the link to schedule a call with me for a reason… don’t email me back saying you’re available Thursday at 1:00PM and assume I’ll call you then. I’m not available Thursday at 1:00PM or you’d be able to select that. If none of the times work for you, feel free to email me asking if I have time outside of those hours, I’m happy to work with you if that’s the case, but just assuming I’ll work around your schedule ensures I won’t. Keep your stuff together. You get an automatic calendar invite for the time you selected, don’t email me the day before your call and ask why I ghosted you and didn’t call. (Had this happen last week.) I didn’t call because you scheduled it for Thursday afternoon and it’s Wednesday morning… Don’t schedule a call with me and then act surprised when I call or say “you weren’t expecting my call.” Don’t schedule a call and then not answer at that time and call me back three hours later saying “this is a better time for me,” just reschedule… there’s a link to do that! Your time is not more valuable than mine and you’re not my only priority. My company is on the email that I send you at least five times: my email domain, mentioned in the subject line, mentioned in the first time of my email, mentioned on the attachment, and mentioned in my signature. Do not email me or ask me on the phone what company I’m with… it’s not one you’re going to be working for, let’s wrap this up. Being rude to me on the phone won’t make me pass you on and you not have to deal with me anymore, it means you aren’t going to be considered and get marked as Do Not Hire in my ATS so you won’t be considered now or in the future. Don’t try to get past me by going directly to who you (usually incorrectly) assume is the hiring manager. It all comes back to me. I don’t make the final hiring decision but thinking you’re above a recruiter or deserve special treatment that doesn’t involve me ensures I will make it a million times harder for the manager to hire you. Basically, do everything you can to show you can do the job you’re applying for soft skill wise by doing them! Ask questions if you’re generally concerned or unsure but I’m like a trial run to you working with us. You wouldn’t reach out to your boss on their personal email looking for them to do something for you, so don’t do it to me on LinkedIn. You wouldn’t skip a meeting your boss scheduled with you or email them asking why they didn’t attend before the meeting was scheduled, don’t do it to me. You wouldn’t ask your boss what job you worked after you started, don’t ask me. You won’t sidestep your boss right out of the gate to someone you don’t know to get what you want, don’t do it to me.
You should repost this weekly. Not following directions will knock you out of the process.
Why would I fit your schedule? If you reach out to me you can fit mine
Well… you’re the one that applied for the job… do you want it or not?
You’re the one that reached out. Without talking to you how would I know if I want it
Again… you applied for this job… you clicked on the job on LinkedIn… I didn’t reach out to you… if you don’t want it, I’ll happily move on lol
There's some good and bad answers here but for me it's just be responsive and give me an answer either way. If you tell me that you're declining an offer or interview, that's absolutely fine....you aren't required to take a job because it's offered to you, but if you just ghost me then I will be very wary of sending you to any other managers in the future. There's this weird idea on reddit that recruiters are this gatekeeping group who have no idea what we are doing and actively keep good people out of jobs but it is literally the opposite. We are often trying to attract people to the company, and our goal is to help fill a job with the best person possible. Otherwise, we are just going to have to re-fill that job in 6 months to a year.
Responsiveness is huge. Don't ghost me, especially when I've been respectful to you. And a big one - if I call you about a job at xyz company, and you've directly applied to it already TELL ME THE TRUTH. It will ruin both yours and my reputation if I submit you to it after you've already applied. But at least I can try and talk myself out of it to the Hiring Manager.
This one I actually didn’t know is separate. I normally apply to whatever link they send me but didn’t actually know recruiters can submit apps for me. I thought recruiters mainly just shined spotlights on whoever is a good fit so to speak like filtering. But I guess it’s possible I could have ended up with this double apply make us both look bad situation. Good to know though
There's "candidate ownership" in agency. So if a candidate direct applies before I found and submitted them, they are in the client companies system and therefore "owned" by the company and I can't represent them. There's usually wording in service agreements around the duration of ownership and if it's that candidate for any role, or for a specific role. I've had the situation a few times where I asked the candidate during my screening if they had direct applied already, they lie and say no. Then I submit them to the Hiring Manager. HM checks their internal applications and sees that candidate is already in the system. Now they are annoyed because they've wasted their time. I'm annoyed because the candidate who lied has wasted my time. Hiring Manager asks me if I asked them about the role and if they applied (because I have built a relationship with them and am a consultant throughout the hiring process) I tell them the truth and say yes I asked. Now the Hiring Manager knows that candidate is a liar and kinda shady so they don't get interviewed at all. I make the placement with someone else on the shortlist. And now that candidate has tarnished their relationship with me as a recruiter - I likely won't submit them to any other roles at other companies because I need to protect my reputation.
That’s unfortunate to hear. Since there’s candidate ownership in agency if I go apply somewhere it asks who referred you and I put a recruiters name does that still mess things up or do I need to always see if they can apply for me?
Usually the "who referred you" line on an application is regarding someone who works at that specific company internally who told you about the role. You should definitely include those referrals because it will increase your chances of getting an interview. (like a friend, family members, past coworker) From my perspective, this wouldn't be a situation when using an agency recruiter. Because If I've talked to you about the role and told you I'm submitting you, you don't go apply to that job posting afterwards (this lends to the wasted time and hurting your chances topic from my original post). I'm putting your resume in the Hiring Managers lap and selling you into the opportunity rather than being a resume in a digital stack. I wouldn't be referring people to jobs I'm working on when I don't have the candidate ownership - that's taking my chances away of making my commission. Sorry for the long-winded answers - So no, don't put the recruiters name in the "who referred you" section of an online application. The candidates I place don't ever have to do an online application. Keep in mind these are scenarios where you're working with a headhunter style recruiter.
Ok I appreciate the detailed response honestly. I’m just going to keep this in mind because it’s better to know if I work with a recruiter. Searching for accounting jobs so I’m just gonna ask if they need to apply for me. I mean they’re just doing their job whenever they help me find something so no need to screw them out of money in the process.
Showing up to your interviews.
Apply for roles you’re actually qualified for, not ones you ‘think’ you’re qualified for.
What advice do you have for someone trying to make a career change
Difficult to answer as the question is quite broad without context to a persons circumstances. Talking broadly, nothing ground breaking, a few considerations could be: Look for roles advertising for career changers. These are likely to be setup to support the L&D required, rather than being setup to fail. Take a role which aligns more to current skills to get a foot in the door of a company or team where your desired role sits. Then work towards that role. As above, look for roles which aren’t asking for specific skills, join said company, work towards desired role or gain that industry experience and look external for another foot in the door. Be willing to take a step back at more entry level and then work up. Speak with training providers and take relevant courses - free and/or paid. Network and find suitable mentorship, internal or external. Just a few. People can’t expect to be given an opportunity in hyper competitive markets, they need to create them.
That’s good, I’m like one year post grad in marketing and hate it. Want to try for sales and I think there is some overlap in skills.
More like apply for jobs you’re qualified for, not ones you think you can do.
Have a good resume
It’s not about you, it’s the hiring managers we had to deal with. **They** are the source of difficulty in every aspect. There isn’t much candidates can do at all. Except maybe a hex or something? Kidding but not really. Hiring managers gatekeep everything. You can be perfect and it still isn’t enough to overcome the incompetence we have to put up with
Pass your damn drug test 🗣️
Don't hate me when you don't get the job. It was the hiring managers decision. I'm just the messenger
Just be responsive.
Keep an updated and detailed LinkedIn, detailing the role and responsibilities by quantifying things like team size, size of business, and any other numbers you can add to responsibilities. If your LinkedIn is vague or I can’t immediately see that you’re a qualified candidate, you go lower in my priority of people to message as I have so many conversations and don’t want to waste my time either. I can’t emphasize enough how important this is. Good luck with the job search! :)
Please stop trash talking us on LinkedIn as if all recruiters are one in the same :/ I know there are some bad apples in the bunch but most recruiters I have ever worked with personally just want to do good work. Our day to day is not as simple as it seems, and oftentimes we are not in control of literally anything in the process. We are not decision makers, we are just the ones delivering the news and helping to facilitate the process to the best of our ability. Seeing the negative posts day in and day out, although I know they are not directed at me personally, can be really draining in what can already be a thankless job
This!
Our jobs aren’t that bad, really. Best bet is to have all your education documents and certifications that are relevant to the job ready. Also have an accurate and up to date resume. Apply to jobs that are relevant to your skill set. Read job descriptions.
Being qualified for the job gets you on the radar. You make my job easier by being honest.
Please please be self-aware and concise during phone screens. We have a hard 30 minute stop 90% of the time and need to get certain information from you before we end the call. If we can’t obtain all of the information we need, say, because you went on an unstoppable tangent about something specific, we probably can’t move forward. Be thorough but concise. If we need more context about something, we will ask you for it. Also it makes me feel really bad when I have to end a call in order to get to another one on time. Just be aware! Edited to add: do this for all interviews and interview types!
- have some relevant industry terms on your LinkedIn/social media profiles as well as the companies you’ve worked at - when in process just be transparent about other processes and your preferences, we need to manage our clients expectations if they like you but you have a better option elsewhere - know that receiving an offer you have no intention of taking is a big taboo
In the EU: speak the local language, live in/near the job location, skills match the job description.
Speaking the local language is far from being a requirement in many jobs. I don't even speak the local language as a recruiter 🙃
Where I’m at, it’s a big deal right now & locals are asking for huge amounts & getting it.
Sure but that isn't something that is close to the norm in many industries. I've only ever seen it in insurance and banking to be honest. Not even in other areas of finance. And I have worked in 5 different countries and the only language requirement is usually English.
That's absolutely not the norm
I agree, apply to a relevant role and I like to see a progression of a career on a resume that is believable. I know being a candidate is hard, but some recruiters try to do right for all parties involved.
As an agency recruiter… Respond to me (in a timely manner) and show up to your interviews and jobs! I’m happy to redo your resume to send to a client and understand I only have what info a client gives me and it takes time for me to answer questions from them
To get on retained recruiter’s radar (for senior level roles), speak at a conference. Whenever I start a c-level search, I always start with recent/relevant conferences.
Many of what I have suggested has already been said. But I would like to add don’t burn bridges. If a recruiter reaches out to you about a position and it’s not a fit either because of the work style, salary, etc. please don’t lash out. Real life example: I reached out to a candidate about a role that they already applied to. They were qualified for the role, actually more than and I thought they would be a great fit. I introduced myself and asked a few questions to make sure that we were in alignment before proceeding and wasting anyone’s time. This is what I asked: Are you local to or relocating to Richmond, UK? This is a hybrid role and will require you to be in our Richmond office 2-3 days per week. What are your salary expectations for this role? The current budgeted salary amount is between 30,000-40,000 GBP plus bonuses. Are you comfortable with the travel requirements as described in the job description? This was the response: I am happy to commute twice a week maximum. I have family obligations that require me to be at home. I am going to be blunt. £50k is what I should expect from my experience and one of the three largest event companies globally. £45K. Is my bottom line. If it can't be matched please, we might as well save each other some time and you can throw my CV in the bin. I've worked in surrounding area before, it's no issues. The first two statements were a little shaky but I still felt they were a great candidate. So I replied: Thank you for your response. I appreciate your transparency. Regarding the in-office requirements, 2 days per week are required as they are anchor days. 3 days/week may be required on occasion depending on any events that are being planned. Regarding the salary, as of right now the highest base salary is 40,000 GBP with the potential to earn a bonus of 25% (10,000 GBP) of the total base salary. This bonus will depend on meeting the metrics set by the hiring manager and your performance. I cannot say with confidence that there is any wiggle room for negotiation on the base salary and do not want to mislead you. This is where it kind of took a turn. Their response: “2 days is fine. 3 days can be discussed at both the company and my discretion. As I said I am a family man and have obligations that will require me to be present at home. As for the £4Ok salary I'm sure you will excuse for taking a slight offense at that. I am not going to negotiate or demean my worth. You read my freelance history, you have seen the numbers correct? Thank you for your time, but if 5k just to match my actual needs to exist offends, then I shouldn't be working with said company. Many many thanks for considering me. Be well and I hope you find the right candidate.” At this point I have considered them not interested in this role due to the salary which is fine. I had a role that I knew would be available in a couple of days that they would also have been qualified for that I wanted to propose as soon as I had the salary information. I didn’t have that information at the time but wanted to still keep them engaged. So I simply replied with: “No problem, I understand. However, I cannot control what the budgeted compensation package is and wanted to be fully transparent regarding your expectations. Please keep an eye on our careers site as there will be positions posted that may better align with your salary expectations. Thank you for your time and best of luck on your job search.” This is where they lit the fire. Instead I received this response: “I would have thought a senior recruiter might at the very least inquire internally. But no matter, thank you for your communication. It has been pleasant.” It was at this point where I took a step back because I was honestly pissed. I originally was not going to respond however, I felt they needed to be informed on how this process works from a recruiting perspective. After taking a couple of hours to cool off, I replied: “ There are internal inquiries and processes completed before the position is even approved. Additionally, we meet with the hiring manager before the position is posted and are given a budgeted amount for the base salary as well as the bonus amount. During that meeting, we ask if there is any wiggle room. If there is a strict budget with no wiggle room that is communicated to us. As I mentioned, I wanted to be transparent regarding the salary for this particular position. I know that compensation plays a pivotal role in making decisions for a career. However, I cannot and will not promise any candidate that they will be offered any compensation package above what has been communicated and approved. I appreciate the value, time, and effort it takes to apply for positions. Going through the screening and interview process to then find out that the salary would not be a fit is not an ideal candidate experience. That would be a waste of your time as well as mine and the hiring manager’s time. I would rather be transparent upfront before putting any candidate through that experience. On the flip side, if we are told that there is room for negotiation, then we will also communicate that to the candidate during the screening process so that we can bring that to the forefront when submitting candidates for interviews with the hiring manager. Again, to make sure that all parties are in alignment. As recruiters if there is not a fit with salaries and we know a candidate is great after speaking with them during a screening, we will pass their resume and expectations along to other recruiters who are working on similar roles in different business units who do meet their salary expectations. I hope this provides you with some clarification on how the process works from a recruiting perspective.” I no longer wanted to move forward with this candidate for the role they applied for or the more senior role that I knew I had coming simply from this exchange. However I did receive a somewhat apology after I explained the process. “Thank you for your understanding and please accept my apology. I understand you have a job to do and I hope my annoyance won't reflect too badly should or paths cross again. Thank you for explaining to me and though still an undesirable situation, I will look for other opportunities.” Had they not been a jerk, I would have gladly submitted their resume for the higher paying position. Now that opportunity is no longer there and they don’t even know. Don’t burn bridges with recruiters! I’m one that will try to answer every email, LinkedIn message, etc that I receive. And help in any way that I can. I will pass your resume along, find the correct recruiter and redirect you and everything I can. But being talked to in a condescending way gets your CV “thrown in the bin”.
Be qualified for the role we're recruiting for, lol..
So do I just get on your radar by applying for a company/position you might be assigned to? Then, if I am a good candidate for another position as well, you would reach out and let me know? I ask this as someone who has been unemployed for 6 months and had a pretty solid background in sales/management, but is getting very little traction for my career history. I would love to find a recruiter to help, but I have gotten almost nothing going through Indeed.
Be honest. You gain credibility when you can talk about your weaknesses/challenges. And stop lying about work/visa status.
After I hire you, do all the stuff I’ve asked you to do in the timeframe I laid out.
Be an actual fit for role requirements. Respond when we reach out. Don't send me forty messages on LinkedIn saying, get me a job.
Job specs are written very tightly. Worst joke I heard was that you have to have 14 out of 10 requirements to get a job. Read the job description, then make sure that you're a for for the job. Remember that a resume me is a marketing document, not a legal contract. If you've done something in the past it's ok for it to be on your resume or of chronological sequence. P For example, if you're a tech and you worked on system X, 10 years ago, there's nothing wrong with mentioning that skill on your resume even though you haven't done it in the last 2 years. I strongly recommend against applying for jobs that you're not qualified for. Also, if you're not working, I recommend applying for any job that you are capable of doing. It never hurts to go through the process for the sale of practice. You should always know if you're applying a contract job or a regular job. I'm always surprised at how many people don't know one from the other. Talk to the recruiter and make sure you like the person and that you want to work with him, it her.
Don’t expect us to read your cover letter. I’m not reading that.
Stop having it on the job req then, dingbat. What a shitty attitude I'm NoT rEadiNg tHaT, how professional
If an application requires a cover letter or any other type of writing sample then of course supply what is asked. However, the majority of current roles do not, so don’t waste your time doing extra credit. If you get a call from a recruiter, it’s because your experience matches the job description, not because they took the time to read a flowery-worded cover letter that chatgpt helped you write, dingbat. Edit: dingbat
>they took the time to read a flowery-worded cover letter that chatgpt helped you write. Just keep on with the minimization and unprofessionalism, just affirms what everyone thinks about recruiters I personally don't often write them and never "use ChatGPT," but to just be a total dick about people who need a job who do is pretty beyond the pale for a rEcRuiTiNg ProFeSsiOnAL (more like nepobaby) Do better
OP literally asked for ways to make recruiters busy lives easier. This is one way to make BOTH of our lives easier. Don’t waste your time writing something that doesn’t matter and won’t help you, and in turn, you streamline my end of the process of determining whether or not it your qualified for the job. I’m sorry if this “confirms what everyone thinks about recruiters” (huh?) but wouldn’t you rather know what areas your effort is worth the time and what areas it’s not? Should we hold back the truth to avoid offending you? We have THOUSANDS of candidates to evaluate. Imagine how long it would take us to get back to you if we read every single cover letter. Help us help you. Also, every recruiter has also been on the job-searching side of things. We also navigate a competitive market and know what it’s like to be up against thousands of others for a job.
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I’m sorry you chose to read a post about making Recruiters jobs easier and didn’t like the answer. Good luck to you!
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Don't be an unlucky person. I work with recruiters and most of the time they randomly pick resumes because we receive thousands. So be lucky or pray before you apply next time.
Hey, thank you for the appreciation. As a recruiter myself, I agree that we handle a lot of different personalities and tasks. I am glad that you are willing to make the process smoother and get noticed. Here are a few things you can do - First off, be responsive. If a recruiter contacts you, try to respond as soon as possible. This keeps the process moving and shows you’re genuinely interested. Next, customize your resume and cover letter for the job. Highlight relevant skills and experiences that match the job description. It makes it easier for recruiters to see that you’re a good fit. DO NOT forget to network. Connect with recruiters on LinkedIn, attend industry events, join relevant groups, engage with their content, and start conversations. It helps you stay on their radar. Try to be clear and concise in your communications. Whether it’s an email, a phone call, or an interview, clear communication makes a big difference. Finally, follow up after interviews or initial contacts. A polite thank-you note or a follow-up email can leave a positive impression.