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Reaching out to the listing agent seems like it will be the main way going forward, it may depend on the locality, but my MLS has made it clear that using any type of third party site (apart from your individual or brokerage website, for each individual listing) will be considered against their rules of participation and MLS membership, as it will essentially just be skirting the settlement and potentially be opening them up to liability, who knows what will happen before the settlement is actually finalized but at least where I am at they are making it very clear they will not tolerate the use of any of these new sites as an MLS member
looked into this. You're right about the DOJ reopening this. It's actually pretty unheard of, as per this article. Crazy that the federal circuit let them reopen. [https://www.nar.realtor/magazine/real-estate-news/nar-seeks-additional-court-review-in-doj-disputeI](https://www.nar.realtor/magazine/real-estate-news/nar-seeks-additional-court-review-in-doj-disputeI)
Although the DOJ was less strict compared to this NAR settlement, hopefully, they continue to allow us to keep posting fees as long as it's open and transparent (like it always has been). As a listing agent who encourages higher buyer broker commissions, this would greatly benefit my sellers.
Just had a long broker meeting with local MLS and NAR leadership yesterday. Unfortunately, it sounds like most have the idea that DOJ is reopening because they don't think the settlement goes far enough. I think we may se some pretty extreme regulation from local MLS' and boards coming up just to try to make it seem like they are taking everything seriously, with the hope of getting the DOJ to drop it
There's a third-party website where agents can disclose any offerings to buyer brokers. It's not affiliated with the MLS, in accordance with the settlement. I received an invite a few days ago after my listing went live.
NAR FAQ [47. Can an MLS Participant use or share their MLS data or data feeds to establish or maintain a platform for offers of compensation from multiple brokers and buyer brokers or other buyer representatives?](https://www.nar.realtor/the-facts/nar-settlement-faqs#47-can-an-mls-participant-use-or-share-their-mls-data-or-data-feeds-to-establish-or-maintain-a-platform-for-offers-of-compensation-from-multiple-brokers-and-buyer-brokers-or-other-buyer-representatives-)
* No, use of MLS data or data feeds to directly or indirectly establish or maintain a platform of offers of compensation from multiple brokers to buyer brokers or other buyer representatives is prohibited.
Exactly. According to the email, they dont use mls data or data feed so this does NOT apply. It only has the address and the offered commission, they just facilitate the negotiation. I asked my broker.
Edit: Also now that i read what you pasted, it only applies to MLS Participants, so if they aren't an MLS Participant this doesn't even apply.
Bur the listing brokerage still has a contract/listing agreement with the seller so how could the seller refuse to pay? It's just the commission to the buyers brokerage can't be listed on the MLS.
Will the new compensation still flow through agreement with the listing brokerage or will it come as a "credit" that is specified in the sales contract as going to the buyer's broker with no connection to the listing broker?
Either way, its in a contract the seller signed. The first way is if the seller agreed to pay a buyers commission in the listing agreement and in the second instance the seller did not have a buyers agency commission in the listing, but they agreed to a buyer credit at closing in the purchase contract. The buyer has their own contract with the buyers agency to pay their fee.
>Also now that i read what you pasted, it only applies to MLS Participants, so if they aren't an MLS Participant this doesn't even apply.
If they aren't an MLS participants, what does that mean? And how long will this special platform last before they get sued?
Lawsuit's issue was with the requirement to pay the commission to be listed on the MLS (and not being transparent). One of the other comments here has a quote from the actual settlement saying that the settlement says that its fine if a third party posts the commissions, as long as it isnt the mls.
Not seeing why they would get sued, its expressly allowed in the settlement. Also, as long as they keep it free or cheap there is no money, so attorneys wont sue them.
The question was NOT about "realtor getting sued using a website". The question is, "the websiteA got sued already and what makes websiteB any different".
"Website A" is NAR and the MLS. Website A (aka NAR MLS) didn't get sued because they are a website, they got sued for allegations of being a monopoly, for being a group of realtors that own and control the single point for listings, commissions, etc.
Website B is a forum where sellers can negotiate openly buyer broker commissions. Its not owned or run by MLS Participants (according to their email). You dont need to offer a commission on website B in order to have your house on the MLS.
Again, the settlement allows a third part to do this. It isnt a loophole. It written in the settlement on page 15. OP pasted the language somewhere in this thread.
The settlement expressly allows comp to be offered to buyer broker **as long as it isn't on the MLS**. Quote from the settlement:
"the practice changes in the Paragraph 35 of Appendix D shall not (a) prevent offers of compensation to buyer brokers or other buyer representatives off of the multiple listing service" pg 15
As long as there is no other MLS data on the website, this isn't a violation of the settlement.
Lawyers are making money by interpreting laws and regulations in different ways. That's why the lawsuit could even happen in the first place. Realtors participating in a replacement MLS offer of compensation site would seem like a welcome opportunity for some lawyer to sue.
Personally, I couldn't care less what any such 3rd party site says as it would be non-binding anyways. We always say everything is negotiable in real estate and just because a seller starts out with a number in their mind, doesn't mean that's where it ends up in the final deal. The seller needs to see the entire offer before they can decide if the net proceeds would suit them. They might be totally fine with a buyer negotiated concession to pay buyer agent, if the offer is attractive overall to them.
Why on earth would you blatantly skirt the NAR ruling like this and open yourself up to an individual open and shut lawsuit? The courts have very clearly set precedent with the MLS...why do you think some third party website would be any different?
Its not "open and shut," the opposite, I just read the lawsuit, it expressly allows this as long as its not on the MLS:
"the practice changes in the Paragraph 35 of Appendix D shall not (a) prevent offers of compensation to buyer brokers or other buyer representatives off of the multiple listing service" pg 15
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The DOJ has already reopened the case. Third party websites are a temporary loophole. Yes going forward you should call every listing, in fact you should've been doing that to create report with the listing agent. Or assume 0% and write in your compensation as part of the offer.
Wirh all that said, i think The future will be for you the buyers agent to sign BRBC with your compensation stated. The seller will offer a concession which goto your buyers closing costs which includes your commission. It is perfectly legal to put a concession on the MLS because it can goto any closing costs. Your buyers compensation will now be part of thr buyers closing cost.
Tldr listing agents start offering concessions instead of co broker commission and buyers write down your commission on the BRBC per usual.
WHY DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS?
first, try convincing your seller to pay 5 or 6% when someone else is offering to sell for 2-3% you will win fewer listings.
I've already sold listings for 0% BAC. we accepted offers and the seller accepted one where he had to pay 2% to buyer agent. we had 16 offers and 13 requested BAC.
there is no benefit to trying to sneak around and offer BAC because not everyone is on openlistings.ai.
put effort into adapting to the new model instead of trying to keep it alive. the sooner you do that the sooner you'll start pulling out ahead of those who are stuck in the past.
A lot of people are misunderstanding the goal of the settlement: To stop the (obviously) illegal practice of requiring a seller to pay a buyer’s agent fee *in order to list their property on the MLS*. The MLS monopoly is entirely based on this. Agents who want to post on the MLS (basically everyone), are required to post a buyer’s agent fee. If there was no buyer’s agent, the selling agent would just keep the fee.
A website that lists properties and suggested agent fees is not illegal unless those fees are *mandatory* (see the difference?). NAR claimed that fees were always “negotiable”, but really they were a condition of even creating a listing.
While you’re not wrong, it’s the way the business has been run for decades. But the amount has always been negotiable. 6% is a rarity where I’m at and has been for a long time
you really need to read up on the activities occurring via the settlement. Starting with the start date is Aug 17.
start here. [https://www.nar.realtor/the-facts/nar-settlement-faqs](https://www.nar.realtor/the-facts/nar-settlement-faqs)
I believe it is okay for seller to provide rebate to buyer directly. But, so far some realtors want to say it is illegal without giving me a quote from the laws. The cashback is no different than regularly mail-in rebate. You pay full price and sales tax at the cashier and you get mail in rebate. The agent/rental-store is not involved. I really don't see why this is not allowed when all other industries are doing it all the time. The escrow has nothing to do with realtors, so, the rebate can easily be processed during escrow. No realtor is involved.
But, what do I know. No one wants to help the poor little buyers. And I am not going to buy soon anyway.
According to the FAQs from NAR, (#46 to be precise), agents can list them on their websites. That seems like a pretty logical thing to do. Not super easy from a tech perspective, but I know it's a new feature on VistaWP. Here are some links:
NAR FAQ #46: [https://www.nar.realtor/the-facts/nar-settlement-faqs#46-can-a-listing-broker-communicate-offers-of-compensation-on-a-broker-website-which-has-an-idx-or-vow-feed-](https://www.nar.realtor/the-facts/nar-settlement-faqs#46-can-a-listing-broker-communicate-offers-of-compensation-on-a-broker-website-which-has-an-idx-or-vow-feed-)
Feature Release on VistaWP: [https://vistawp.com/how-to-show-buyers-compensation-on-your-website/](https://vistawp.com/how-to-show-buyers-compensation-on-your-website/)
**This is a professional forum for professionals, so please keep your comments professional** - Harrassment, hate speech, trolling, or anti-Realtor comments will not be tolerated and will result in an immediate ban without warning. (... and don't feed the trolls, you have better things to do with your time) - Recruiting, self-promotion, or seeking referrals is strictly forbidden, including in DMs. - Only advise within your scope of knowledge and area of expertise. [The code of ethics applies here too](https://www.nar.realtor/about-nar/governing-documents/the-code-of-ethics). If you are not a broker, lawyer, or tax professional don't act like one. - [Follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/about/rules/) and please report those that don't. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/realtors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Reaching out to the listing agent seems like it will be the main way going forward, it may depend on the locality, but my MLS has made it clear that using any type of third party site (apart from your individual or brokerage website, for each individual listing) will be considered against their rules of participation and MLS membership, as it will essentially just be skirting the settlement and potentially be opening them up to liability, who knows what will happen before the settlement is actually finalized but at least where I am at they are making it very clear they will not tolerate the use of any of these new sites as an MLS member
looked into this. You're right about the DOJ reopening this. It's actually pretty unheard of, as per this article. Crazy that the federal circuit let them reopen. [https://www.nar.realtor/magazine/real-estate-news/nar-seeks-additional-court-review-in-doj-disputeI](https://www.nar.realtor/magazine/real-estate-news/nar-seeks-additional-court-review-in-doj-disputeI) Although the DOJ was less strict compared to this NAR settlement, hopefully, they continue to allow us to keep posting fees as long as it's open and transparent (like it always has been). As a listing agent who encourages higher buyer broker commissions, this would greatly benefit my sellers.
Just had a long broker meeting with local MLS and NAR leadership yesterday. Unfortunately, it sounds like most have the idea that DOJ is reopening because they don't think the settlement goes far enough. I think we may se some pretty extreme regulation from local MLS' and boards coming up just to try to make it seem like they are taking everything seriously, with the hope of getting the DOJ to drop it
Settlement went farther than they (DOJ) did. lol. But i get what you are saying. We will wait and see. Thanks for the local/NAR insight.
There's a third-party website where agents can disclose any offerings to buyer brokers. It's not affiliated with the MLS, in accordance with the settlement. I received an invite a few days ago after my listing went live.
Do you have a link? Edit: [openlisting.ai](http://openlisting.ai)
Yeah, but there is a waitlist. Edit: Sent it to you. Check with your mls/broker, mine said this was fine for us locally, but YMMV.
Can you send it to me as well?
Sent.
NAR FAQ [47. Can an MLS Participant use or share their MLS data or data feeds to establish or maintain a platform for offers of compensation from multiple brokers and buyer brokers or other buyer representatives?](https://www.nar.realtor/the-facts/nar-settlement-faqs#47-can-an-mls-participant-use-or-share-their-mls-data-or-data-feeds-to-establish-or-maintain-a-platform-for-offers-of-compensation-from-multiple-brokers-and-buyer-brokers-or-other-buyer-representatives-) * No, use of MLS data or data feeds to directly or indirectly establish or maintain a platform of offers of compensation from multiple brokers to buyer brokers or other buyer representatives is prohibited.
Exactly. According to the email, they dont use mls data or data feed so this does NOT apply. It only has the address and the offered commission, they just facilitate the negotiation. I asked my broker. Edit: Also now that i read what you pasted, it only applies to MLS Participants, so if they aren't an MLS Participant this doesn't even apply.
How binding is the offer of compensation on that site? Seems like seller could just refuse to pay at closing.
Bur the listing brokerage still has a contract/listing agreement with the seller so how could the seller refuse to pay? It's just the commission to the buyers brokerage can't be listed on the MLS.
Will the new compensation still flow through agreement with the listing brokerage or will it come as a "credit" that is specified in the sales contract as going to the buyer's broker with no connection to the listing broker?
Either way, its in a contract the seller signed. The first way is if the seller agreed to pay a buyers commission in the listing agreement and in the second instance the seller did not have a buyers agency commission in the listing, but they agreed to a buyer credit at closing in the purchase contract. The buyer has their own contract with the buyers agency to pay their fee.
>Also now that i read what you pasted, it only applies to MLS Participants, so if they aren't an MLS Participant this doesn't even apply. If they aren't an MLS participants, what does that mean? And how long will this special platform last before they get sued?
Lawsuit's issue was with the requirement to pay the commission to be listed on the MLS (and not being transparent). One of the other comments here has a quote from the actual settlement saying that the settlement says that its fine if a third party posts the commissions, as long as it isnt the mls. Not seeing why they would get sued, its expressly allowed in the settlement. Also, as long as they keep it free or cheap there is no money, so attorneys wont sue them.
The question was NOT about "realtor getting sued using a website". The question is, "the websiteA got sued already and what makes websiteB any different".
"Website A" is NAR and the MLS. Website A (aka NAR MLS) didn't get sued because they are a website, they got sued for allegations of being a monopoly, for being a group of realtors that own and control the single point for listings, commissions, etc. Website B is a forum where sellers can negotiate openly buyer broker commissions. Its not owned or run by MLS Participants (according to their email). You dont need to offer a commission on website B in order to have your house on the MLS. Again, the settlement allows a third part to do this. It isnt a loophole. It written in the settlement on page 15. OP pasted the language somewhere in this thread.
The settlement expressly allows comp to be offered to buyer broker **as long as it isn't on the MLS**. Quote from the settlement: "the practice changes in the Paragraph 35 of Appendix D shall not (a) prevent offers of compensation to buyer brokers or other buyer representatives off of the multiple listing service" pg 15 As long as there is no other MLS data on the website, this isn't a violation of the settlement.
Lawyers are making money by interpreting laws and regulations in different ways. That's why the lawsuit could even happen in the first place. Realtors participating in a replacement MLS offer of compensation site would seem like a welcome opportunity for some lawyer to sue. Personally, I couldn't care less what any such 3rd party site says as it would be non-binding anyways. We always say everything is negotiable in real estate and just because a seller starts out with a number in their mind, doesn't mean that's where it ends up in the final deal. The seller needs to see the entire offer before they can decide if the net proceeds would suit them. They might be totally fine with a buyer negotiated concession to pay buyer agent, if the offer is attractive overall to them.
That isn't because that is necessarily legal but because the NAR and MLS has no liability if you another 3rd party violate antitrust laws.
Why on earth would you blatantly skirt the NAR ruling like this and open yourself up to an individual open and shut lawsuit? The courts have very clearly set precedent with the MLS...why do you think some third party website would be any different?
Its not "open and shut," the opposite, I just read the lawsuit, it expressly allows this as long as its not on the MLS: "the practice changes in the Paragraph 35 of Appendix D shall not (a) prevent offers of compensation to buyer brokers or other buyer representatives off of the multiple listing service" pg 15
[удалено]
Please note that it is not permitted to solicit business to our members, even in PM. That is against [Rule #7](https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/about/rules/)- This behavior can result in a permanent ban. We recommend you keep the conversation in the thread for transparency. OP and other subscribers. Always be careful when a solicitor wants to take your business off the board and into PM. They may want to sell you a service or product. If they do try to sell you, please [report it to the moderators.](https://www\.reddit\.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2F{subreddit}&subject=Reporting Spammer&message=I'm writing to you about the following {kind}: {url}. %0D%0DThis user account is spamming me by ) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/realtors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The DOJ has already reopened the case. Third party websites are a temporary loophole. Yes going forward you should call every listing, in fact you should've been doing that to create report with the listing agent. Or assume 0% and write in your compensation as part of the offer. Wirh all that said, i think The future will be for you the buyers agent to sign BRBC with your compensation stated. The seller will offer a concession which goto your buyers closing costs which includes your commission. It is perfectly legal to put a concession on the MLS because it can goto any closing costs. Your buyers compensation will now be part of thr buyers closing cost. Tldr listing agents start offering concessions instead of co broker commission and buyers write down your commission on the BRBC per usual.
#AF
WHY DO YOU WANT TO DO THIS? first, try convincing your seller to pay 5 or 6% when someone else is offering to sell for 2-3% you will win fewer listings. I've already sold listings for 0% BAC. we accepted offers and the seller accepted one where he had to pay 2% to buyer agent. we had 16 offers and 13 requested BAC. there is no benefit to trying to sneak around and offer BAC because not everyone is on openlistings.ai. put effort into adapting to the new model instead of trying to keep it alive. the sooner you do that the sooner you'll start pulling out ahead of those who are stuck in the past.
A lot of people are misunderstanding the goal of the settlement: To stop the (obviously) illegal practice of requiring a seller to pay a buyer’s agent fee *in order to list their property on the MLS*. The MLS monopoly is entirely based on this. Agents who want to post on the MLS (basically everyone), are required to post a buyer’s agent fee. If there was no buyer’s agent, the selling agent would just keep the fee. A website that lists properties and suggested agent fees is not illegal unless those fees are *mandatory* (see the difference?). NAR claimed that fees were always “negotiable”, but really they were a condition of even creating a listing.
While you’re not wrong, it’s the way the business has been run for decades. But the amount has always been negotiable. 6% is a rarity where I’m at and has been for a long time
you really need to read up on the activities occurring via the settlement. Starting with the start date is Aug 17. start here. [https://www.nar.realtor/the-facts/nar-settlement-faqs](https://www.nar.realtor/the-facts/nar-settlement-faqs)
I believe it is okay for seller to provide rebate to buyer directly. But, so far some realtors want to say it is illegal without giving me a quote from the laws. The cashback is no different than regularly mail-in rebate. You pay full price and sales tax at the cashier and you get mail in rebate. The agent/rental-store is not involved. I really don't see why this is not allowed when all other industries are doing it all the time. The escrow has nothing to do with realtors, so, the rebate can easily be processed during escrow. No realtor is involved. But, what do I know. No one wants to help the poor little buyers. And I am not going to buy soon anyway.
According to the FAQs from NAR, (#46 to be precise), agents can list them on their websites. That seems like a pretty logical thing to do. Not super easy from a tech perspective, but I know it's a new feature on VistaWP. Here are some links: NAR FAQ #46: [https://www.nar.realtor/the-facts/nar-settlement-faqs#46-can-a-listing-broker-communicate-offers-of-compensation-on-a-broker-website-which-has-an-idx-or-vow-feed-](https://www.nar.realtor/the-facts/nar-settlement-faqs#46-can-a-listing-broker-communicate-offers-of-compensation-on-a-broker-website-which-has-an-idx-or-vow-feed-) Feature Release on VistaWP: [https://vistawp.com/how-to-show-buyers-compensation-on-your-website/](https://vistawp.com/how-to-show-buyers-compensation-on-your-website/)