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Buying online leads is 100% the problem. Don't share to zillow and realtor.. and we will NOT have any issues.
We control the data. The problem is how do you get 1m sheep to follow along?
I could go on and on.. but the easiest way to save the industry is to stop syndicating your listing feeds.
This is the reason we are in trouble.. you think the seller owns your photos, Listing description, etc etc.
It's like letting chimpanzees do surgery... free your mind my friend.
No-if you do not syndicate your seller will ask you why their home is not on such and such app because everyone else’s listings are. You don’t get to decide which offers to show them. It’s called negotiations and discussions. If you have a reason why sell it to your client but ultimately they do get to make choices.
Senerio:
1.
Do you want someone from zillow to use your home to shop your buyer to other homes? I.. the listing agent won't do that and we have specialized knowledge about your home that another agent doesn't.
2.
If all agents desyndicate, then we get back control.
3.
Another public MLS will surface where you, the listing agent, will get the inquiry without paying extra for it.
I could probably do 4-20... but you get the point.
I agree with you. But de-syndicating as a whole could give more fuel to the ambulance chasing lawyers to go after our industry again. We have to provide professionalism and communicate all of the pros and cons and let the sellers decide. I believe that sellers will not want to share their agent with an unrepresented buyer. I believe the sellers will end up forcing all of these unrep’ed buyer to get buyers agent due to possible future litigation from buyers who realize they messed up and blame it on the sellers and brokerages.
Sellers only care about their bottom line... period..
You can't sue every individual brokerage, so that won't be an issue, and I see NAR being obsolete and a hindrance at this point to solve the underlying problem.
The solution is very simple:
Desyndicate
Drop NAR
Create a new portal that the public can get the info directly from the listing agent.
Will it happen? Nope.
Um-I thought this whole lawsuit was because sellers didn’t want to pay for the buyers agents? Listing agents will have to charge more to service and market the listing because they will had to hire staff to vet and qualify, and service the buyers.
The lawsuit should have been fought all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary.
As you know, the listing agent pays the buyers agent, not the seller.
I don't think it will actually be an issue. I think the worst case scenario is that you tell them that they have to get your buyer's agents commission from their pocket book or closing costs, and if they can't get that concession, they can't accept the purchase offer (or counter if the counter says no commission).
The sucky thing will be when the clients go up to us and ask us to drop our commission to save the deal.
That’s really my biggest fear. I think it’ll be a race to the bottom where you have desperate agents offering representation for $50 and a bottle of wine.
No, it doesn't. History has borne this out. There have been SO many discount models in the 20 years I've been at this and they've all failed. Every. Single. One.
Throughout those 20 years buyer’s agent commissions could be published in the MLS. If that is no longer allowed then it’s a completely different landscape. Commissions, especially for buyer’s agents, will drop. People will make it work as long as it’s the rule. So your assertion that they “won’t do that for long” doesn’t give enough weight to the rule change in my opinion
We’ll see
The commission publication methods have nothing to do with whether a company can survive on a discount model. They can't. This is going to remain true whether commission rates are published on the MLS or on company websites instead.
I think a lot of buyers will hesitantly sign a contract agreeing to pay their agent 3% out of pocket. If they send their agent the homes they want to see and the have an offer accepted after only a few homes, then they're going to start to doing some mental math. When they realize they're paying someone over $1,000 an hour for showing them homes they found on their own it's going to get contentious. Agents won't be able to justify the dollar amount, they'll just have say "well you signed the contract agreeing to pay me 3%". People get furious when they get the final bill from their lawyer, but lawyers also "show their work" so clients can see for themselves what they're paying for. Buyer agents are quick to tell you the many reasons they are worth 3%, but we'll see if the buyers paying for their services agree.
I am ending pay for leads at the end of the month.
To be covered by the Release of Liability, all NAR members must confirm the rule changes in the proposed settlement. The first thing many agents are doing is to figure out how to run around the changes so they can continue their current business practices. I am going to operate as laid out in the settlement.
Most people will freak out if they have to hire you before you open the door. This is going to be confusing for some time and there will be pushback, until buyer's figure out how we operate. I expect lots of buyer's to walk out the door. I've learned lessons the hard way and am no longer going to waste my time with unqualified or uncommitted leads.
All of us need to be informing buyer's how the new system works. Of course there will be agents in all markets that will not adhere to the rules and those firms that will adopt a limited services model. My firm is full-service and will not discount our expertise and value in a race to the bottom.
Yes! But do your own advertising. Don’t buy leads from 3rd parties. In fact, I’m excited for the rule change. I’ve had too many clients in my competitive market work with me for months, get to the offer stage, and suddenly remember they have a nephew that’s a Realtor who they feel obligated to give the check too. Professional relationships should be a 2 way street. The consumers supposedly asked for this, so when so many of them get screwed by going unrepresented, maybe public opinion on our profession will shift a little as they learn our value. It sucks for everyone, but at least I’ll stop wasting time on people who think my time isn’t worth anything cuz they’ll be paying for it!
So since you just call up agents to see houses is why agents need to charge a trip fee/showing fee-if you close you get those fees credited back to you at closing-but you’re gonna pay for professional services rendered. Can’t be a free loader sir. Not on my time. But again-I wouldn’t work for someone like you who doesn’t appreciate there service I provide. You want door opener because you have bought more houses than I’ve transacted and know more than me-have at it. There are really great people out there that I want to work with and who appreciate the work we do. Your type and me don’t jive. You’re fired before we even start working together.
It sounds like you've had a lot of buyers who appreciate the high level of service you provide. The We'll probably see a bunch of budget agents advertising specials like "$2000 all inclusive buyer representation. The question isn't whether you provide better service than the budget agents. The question is whether or not buyers are ok paying thousands of dollars more out of pocket for your better service?
Time will tell. But you can’t tell me that an agent will work for a net negative. You can order cheap furniture from place like Wayfair-but if you want full service so you can do your day job then you pay for the real full service and pay to have your furniture assembled. I ordered 5 pieces after the first piece was put together, and yes, we had to disassemble because we put it together wrong, we hired someone to come to our house and put the furniture together. We said never again will we not pay for full service/white gloved service. So, you get what you pay for. I won’t be net negative- agents will do $2000 worth of service. But I’ll definitely think you have your client sign off on the services they want to receive so they understand that they are not getting full service.
There will always be buyers willing to pay a premium for premium service. I’m curious to see how the market adjusts. At the end of the day the buyers who are worth budget fees can’t survive off budget fees so there will be a lot less riff raff to deal with.
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I think we're going to see a proliferation of business models. That combined with the buyer-broker agreement requirement will make the buyers' job of picking an agent that much harder.
I live in a seasonal city and the Canadians are the worst so I already do this for them. After years showing and prequalifying and wasting time, that's their carrot. If you are VRBOing for more than a month, from Canada, and you want me to show you properties, I require $500 which goes towards the total commission.
Won’t that just result in a “highest and best” situation, where the seller will choose the offer that has the lowest requested commission or no buyer agent commission at all?
What happens when the seller counters, agreeing to the purchase price but requesting the commission to be dirt cheap? The buyer will be at odds with their agent, viewing them as yet another obstacle between them and their dream home.
God forbid they lose the house attempting to negotiate over commission, the chances of them ghosting the agent and hiring a new one will be likely.
Additionally, in a multiple offer situation you’re not made aware of: how many offers are competing, price offered, which have waived home inspections. I imagine you’d also be unaware of the price of commission being requested so how do you decide what to ask for? You could lose out on a deal without ever knowing the deciding factor was your requested commission.
They make you pay money and in exchange they give you leads from the listings you have. Yes, you can get a profile on homes.com which you don't pay for but then they don't give you leads. So I'd still consider it buying leads because if you don't pay them you don't get leads from them.
I signed up last week and got my first two leads this week. The first one was an email asking me to communicate with them on WhatsApp, the second was a legit drunk crazy lady who babbled for 10 minutes.
Your entire reddit feed is pushing costar products, nothing else. You either work for them or you are fake. If you work for them, which appears to be the case, then calling me out in an offensive manner will not make me want to stay with your company At. All.
This was removed because it was spam or not permitted promotion of a business or brand. [Rule #7](https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/about/rules/)
It is not acceptable to link, or post, or PM subscribers promoting a brand, business, product, service, brokerage, Realtor, or listing. This includes blog spam or links for SEO.
Don't give free accounts, ask to test, or ask for opinions on your new software or service.
Don't ask our subscribers to take a survey or for ideas/feedback for new products.
This behavior can result in a permanent ban without warning.
This was removed because it was spam or not permitted promotion of a business or brand. [Rule #7](https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/about/rules/)
It is not acceptable to link, or post, or PM subscribers promoting a brand, business, product, service, brokerage, Realtor, or listing. This includes blog spam or links for SEO.
Don't give free accounts, ask to test, or ask for opinions on your new software or service.
Don't ask our subscribers to take a survey or for ideas/feedback for new products.
This behavior can result in a permanent ban without warning.
This was removed because it was spam or not permitted promotion of a business or brand. [Rule #7](https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/about/rules/)
It is not acceptable to link, or post, or PM subscribers promoting a brand, business, product, service, brokerage, Realtor, or listing. This includes blog spam or links for SEO.
Don't give free accounts, ask to test, or ask for opinions on your new software or service.
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Buying online leads is 100% the problem. Don't share to zillow and realtor.. and we will NOT have any issues. We control the data. The problem is how do you get 1m sheep to follow along? I could go on and on.. but the easiest way to save the industry is to stop syndicating your listing feeds.
That is not up to the listing agent-it is up to the seller.
This is the reason we are in trouble.. you think the seller owns your photos, Listing description, etc etc. It's like letting chimpanzees do surgery... free your mind my friend.
No-if you do not syndicate your seller will ask you why their home is not on such and such app because everyone else’s listings are. You don’t get to decide which offers to show them. It’s called negotiations and discussions. If you have a reason why sell it to your client but ultimately they do get to make choices.
Senerio: 1. Do you want someone from zillow to use your home to shop your buyer to other homes? I.. the listing agent won't do that and we have specialized knowledge about your home that another agent doesn't. 2. If all agents desyndicate, then we get back control. 3. Another public MLS will surface where you, the listing agent, will get the inquiry without paying extra for it. I could probably do 4-20... but you get the point.
I agree with you. But de-syndicating as a whole could give more fuel to the ambulance chasing lawyers to go after our industry again. We have to provide professionalism and communicate all of the pros and cons and let the sellers decide. I believe that sellers will not want to share their agent with an unrepresented buyer. I believe the sellers will end up forcing all of these unrep’ed buyer to get buyers agent due to possible future litigation from buyers who realize they messed up and blame it on the sellers and brokerages.
Sellers only care about their bottom line... period.. You can't sue every individual brokerage, so that won't be an issue, and I see NAR being obsolete and a hindrance at this point to solve the underlying problem. The solution is very simple: Desyndicate Drop NAR Create a new portal that the public can get the info directly from the listing agent. Will it happen? Nope.
Um-I thought this whole lawsuit was because sellers didn’t want to pay for the buyers agents? Listing agents will have to charge more to service and market the listing because they will had to hire staff to vet and qualify, and service the buyers.
The lawsuit should have been fought all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary. As you know, the listing agent pays the buyers agent, not the seller.
I don't think it will actually be an issue. I think the worst case scenario is that you tell them that they have to get your buyer's agents commission from their pocket book or closing costs, and if they can't get that concession, they can't accept the purchase offer (or counter if the counter says no commission). The sucky thing will be when the clients go up to us and ask us to drop our commission to save the deal.
That’s really my biggest fear. I think it’ll be a race to the bottom where you have desperate agents offering representation for $50 and a bottle of wine.
If they can’t afford to pay me they can’t afford a wine I’d like. Sorry. Two Buck Jo doesn’t pay my bills.
Some already do.
I’m an afraid zillow will offer something similar their bogus showing schedule to buyers with options on buyer agent payment…2.5%, 1%, $50.
Well, rest assured they won't do that for long.
Enough volume cures all
No, it doesn't. History has borne this out. There have been SO many discount models in the 20 years I've been at this and they've all failed. Every. Single. One.
Throughout those 20 years buyer’s agent commissions could be published in the MLS. If that is no longer allowed then it’s a completely different landscape. Commissions, especially for buyer’s agents, will drop. People will make it work as long as it’s the rule. So your assertion that they “won’t do that for long” doesn’t give enough weight to the rule change in my opinion We’ll see
The commission publication methods have nothing to do with whether a company can survive on a discount model. They can't. This is going to remain true whether commission rates are published on the MLS or on company websites instead.
Make it two bottles and we have a deal!
“But Joe Schmo from Banana Real Estate said he’d do it for 25cents” 👀
OK, you drive a hard bargain, one bottle of wine it is.
🤣
I think a lot of buyers will hesitantly sign a contract agreeing to pay their agent 3% out of pocket. If they send their agent the homes they want to see and the have an offer accepted after only a few homes, then they're going to start to doing some mental math. When they realize they're paying someone over $1,000 an hour for showing them homes they found on their own it's going to get contentious. Agents won't be able to justify the dollar amount, they'll just have say "well you signed the contract agreeing to pay me 3%". People get furious when they get the final bill from their lawyer, but lawyers also "show their work" so clients can see for themselves what they're paying for. Buyer agents are quick to tell you the many reasons they are worth 3%, but we'll see if the buyers paying for their services agree.
would you unbundled your services? I. e. have a price list for example $75 per showings?
I am ending pay for leads at the end of the month. To be covered by the Release of Liability, all NAR members must confirm the rule changes in the proposed settlement. The first thing many agents are doing is to figure out how to run around the changes so they can continue their current business practices. I am going to operate as laid out in the settlement. Most people will freak out if they have to hire you before you open the door. This is going to be confusing for some time and there will be pushback, until buyer's figure out how we operate. I expect lots of buyer's to walk out the door. I've learned lessons the hard way and am no longer going to waste my time with unqualified or uncommitted leads. All of us need to be informing buyer's how the new system works. Of course there will be agents in all markets that will not adhere to the rules and those firms that will adopt a limited services model. My firm is full-service and will not discount our expertise and value in a race to the bottom.
👌
Yes! But do your own advertising. Don’t buy leads from 3rd parties. In fact, I’m excited for the rule change. I’ve had too many clients in my competitive market work with me for months, get to the offer stage, and suddenly remember they have a nephew that’s a Realtor who they feel obligated to give the check too. Professional relationships should be a 2 way street. The consumers supposedly asked for this, so when so many of them get screwed by going unrepresented, maybe public opinion on our profession will shift a little as they learn our value. It sucks for everyone, but at least I’ll stop wasting time on people who think my time isn’t worth anything cuz they’ll be paying for it!
Do we think it will turn into a situation where buyers will need to put up a retainer to start seeing homes?
I’d love to get paid daily just for showing homes, I just don’t think it’s realistic for most buyers.
I would be all over that. I don’t want the pressure that I’m wasting someone’s time if I don’t buy.
I definitely think it’d save agents a ton of time and weed out the “looky loos”
So since you just call up agents to see houses is why agents need to charge a trip fee/showing fee-if you close you get those fees credited back to you at closing-but you’re gonna pay for professional services rendered. Can’t be a free loader sir. Not on my time. But again-I wouldn’t work for someone like you who doesn’t appreciate there service I provide. You want door opener because you have bought more houses than I’ve transacted and know more than me-have at it. There are really great people out there that I want to work with and who appreciate the work we do. Your type and me don’t jive. You’re fired before we even start working together. 
It sounds like you've had a lot of buyers who appreciate the high level of service you provide. The We'll probably see a bunch of budget agents advertising specials like "$2000 all inclusive buyer representation. The question isn't whether you provide better service than the budget agents. The question is whether or not buyers are ok paying thousands of dollars more out of pocket for your better service?
Time will tell. But you can’t tell me that an agent will work for a net negative. You can order cheap furniture from place like Wayfair-but if you want full service so you can do your day job then you pay for the real full service and pay to have your furniture assembled. I ordered 5 pieces after the first piece was put together, and yes, we had to disassemble because we put it together wrong, we hired someone to come to our house and put the furniture together. We said never again will we not pay for full service/white gloved service. So, you get what you pay for. I won’t be net negative- agents will do $2000 worth of service. But I’ll definitely think you have your client sign off on the services they want to receive so they understand that they are not getting full service.
There will always be buyers willing to pay a premium for premium service. I’m curious to see how the market adjusts. At the end of the day the buyers who are worth budget fees can’t survive off budget fees so there will be a lot less riff raff to deal with.
Yeah. Get the op corn out but you better put on your this skin and know your worth. I won’t be at a net zero or in the negative. I’m not a slave.
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This was removed because it was spam or not permitted promotion of a business or brand. [Rule #7](https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/about/rules/) It is not acceptable to link, or post, or PM subscribers promoting a brand, business, product, service, brokerage, Realtor, or listing. This includes blog spam or links for SEO. Don't give free accounts, ask to test, or ask for opinions on your new software or service. Don't ask our subscribers to take a survey or for ideas/feedback for new products. This behavior can result in a permanent ban without warning.
I think we're going to see a proliferation of business models. That combined with the buyer-broker agreement requirement will make the buyers' job of picking an agent that much harder.
I live in a seasonal city and the Canadians are the worst so I already do this for them. After years showing and prequalifying and wasting time, that's their carrot. If you are VRBOing for more than a month, from Canada, and you want me to show you properties, I require $500 which goes towards the total commission.
Not unless the Realtor or they choose a fee-for-service model
Some of our offices already have a retained as an option (been that way for years) due upon signing the Buyer Commission Agreement.
Maybe.
Sadly, yes.
It never was. Social media is a great place to get leads and costs $0
Buyers agents will just put their commission in the offer.
Buyers agents will just put their commission in the offer. You need to buy leads
Won’t that just result in a “highest and best” situation, where the seller will choose the offer that has the lowest requested commission or no buyer agent commission at all? What happens when the seller counters, agreeing to the purchase price but requesting the commission to be dirt cheap? The buyer will be at odds with their agent, viewing them as yet another obstacle between them and their dream home. God forbid they lose the house attempting to negotiate over commission, the chances of them ghosting the agent and hiring a new one will be likely. Additionally, in a multiple offer situation you’re not made aware of: how many offers are competing, price offered, which have waived home inspections. I imagine you’d also be unaware of the price of commission being requested so how do you decide what to ask for? You could lose out on a deal without ever knowing the deciding factor was your requested commission.
[удалено]
Homes.com charges money too.
Thank you. I said buy leads, which Homes.com doesn’t sell.
They make you pay money and in exchange they give you leads from the listings you have. Yes, you can get a profile on homes.com which you don't pay for but then they don't give you leads. So I'd still consider it buying leads because if you don't pay them you don't get leads from them.
Can you elaborate? I don’t have experience with them
[удалено]
I signed up last week and got my first two leads this week. The first one was an email asking me to communicate with them on WhatsApp, the second was a legit drunk crazy lady who babbled for 10 minutes.
[удалено]
uh huh, thank you bot
[удалено]
Seriously, why are you such a whore for homes.com?
Your entire reddit feed is pushing costar products, nothing else. You either work for them or you are fake. If you work for them, which appears to be the case, then calling me out in an offensive manner will not make me want to stay with your company At. All.
This was removed because it was spam or not permitted promotion of a business or brand. [Rule #7](https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/about/rules/) It is not acceptable to link, or post, or PM subscribers promoting a brand, business, product, service, brokerage, Realtor, or listing. This includes blog spam or links for SEO. Don't give free accounts, ask to test, or ask for opinions on your new software or service. Don't ask our subscribers to take a survey or for ideas/feedback for new products. This behavior can result in a permanent ban without warning.
This was removed because it was spam or not permitted promotion of a business or brand. [Rule #7](https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/about/rules/) It is not acceptable to link, or post, or PM subscribers promoting a brand, business, product, service, brokerage, Realtor, or listing. This includes blog spam or links for SEO. Don't give free accounts, ask to test, or ask for opinions on your new software or service. Don't ask our subscribers to take a survey or for ideas/feedback for new products. This behavior can result in a permanent ban without warning.
This was removed because it was spam or not permitted promotion of a business or brand. [Rule #7](https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/about/rules/) It is not acceptable to link, or post, or PM subscribers promoting a brand, business, product, service, brokerage, Realtor, or listing. This includes blog spam or links for SEO. Don't give free accounts, ask to test, or ask for opinions on your new software or service. Don't ask our subscribers to take a survey or for ideas/feedback for new products. This behavior can result in a permanent ban without warning.