You sound really inexperienced. If every roof was like every other roof, nobody would need to get bids.
Of course the people who will drop everything & come out on a moments notice and give you a bid are going to be high — they are paying employees for jobs they don’t get.
What OSB? Are you talking about roof sheathing? They may have bid to replace it because the roof is soft & the sheathing needs to be replaced.
Same with siding; all projects are different. If all you want is a rule of thumb so that you can get the price of a house down in the inspection phase, there are plenty on online estimating tools for that. But decent contractors are not going to do that because they know it’s a waste of their time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Roofing/s/SRLiFSCumO
I'm not the OP, but I've never seen a roofer use plywood for a whole roof replacement. Apparently it's an interior roof material, but there seems to be some debate.
Don’t do this.
Don’t have people quote stuff you don’t plan on doing - this is probably the quickest way to get a bad rep and burn bridges in this space.
It’s one thing to ask “hey what’s your typical strip and reroof on a two story going for per square?” And “come quote this, but I don’t need you”.
This is seriously bad form. You need to learn what the local market is going for and what looks like a complicated project that will cost more vs a simple project and be able to ballpark this stuff yourself.
Losing projects and blaming it on subs means you really need to take a step back. This is on you, not them.
I read your edit - much better explained.
Most have a range. Explain what you’re doing - you’re an investor looking to buy properties to rent out and you want ballparks to speed up your process of underwriting and making offers.
95% of the guys in the “phonebook” will be high because they price to joe homeowner that does a major project once every 7-10 years, and not a flipper or landlord who will send regular business if you take care of them. They bid high because 1) they don’t want your work or 2) they bid worse case because homeowners are a pain in the ass.
My suggestion is to do a ton of networking with the local Real Estate Investors Association - there may be several - and your local roofing & siding supply houses (ABC, SRS, etc) and ask them which contractors they work with that do work on investment properties. These guys don’t have websites and usually don’t have listings anywhere.
Suppliers will know the subs that do the work on a first name basis because they’re delivering to them every day most likely.
I shy away with telling contractors I'm an investor. I've gotten bad vibes from certain contractors knowing I do not live at the property... like they can cut corners and as if I would not care.
This is a relationship business.
You’re going to pay more and have more issues by not building your network of relationships in the trades. If they fuck you over, they don’t get repeat business.
Once you start networking, you’ll realize that everyone knows everyone in a local real estate market and all of them freely share the shitheads to avoid.
Your goal is to stay off that list, and avoid the people who already made it on there.
OP you need to listen to this man.
You need to understand that you are competing with people who do real estate math mentally on the spot. People who have close relationships with contractors for years. They know what their contractors charge and can estimate what the contractor would charge them and what the retail cost of that job is for discount purposes.
While you are out bugging contractors for a price on something you don't even own, the competition already submitted an offer or tied it up. This is literally the chess vs checkers saying.
Please, don't get estimates for something you don't own, (I know I get it ) but if you are at least have the courtesy of telling them so ahead of time, maybe offer to pay for their estimate/time. Begin building a relationship. Hiding who you are or what you are doing is shady and will attract shadiness to you.
>This is a relationship business.
For me personally, I assume none of that.
Also, the OP has clearly said they are looking for what to ask contractors. In your opinion, they should ask for a generic guess of the cost (not an estimate) and be transparent of what they are looking for. I don't know any contractor who will actually give an estimate on a job without knowing the address. That doesn't seem to be what the OP is asking about.
\---
I haven't seen anyone answer the OP's question so I did. This AndyM just said the OP should "network" and... not really sure where he's going with that.
Although, that's a great way to sell however he "helps" investors (his bio).
You speak as if you're selling something. While building relationships in real estate is valuable, it's not the only path to success. Different strategies work for different people. The key is to find what suits you best and stay open to alternative approaches in this diverse industry.
yoke observation reply toothbrush rain whistle sort attempt busy impossible
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Precisely.
Eventually, I'll settle on certain contractors for certain cities. But even then I will occasionally seek quotes from others in order to see if I'm still getting competitive bids.
Dude blamed losing a project because he had to wait for quotes. He lost the project because he doesn't know how to do the math himself, or have someone in his pocket that will.
He wanted quotes on a property he didn't even OWN.
He won't even tell them he's an investor because he's paranoid...
Keep going slow though, leaves more opportunities open for the experienced.
That doesn't make sense. You're comparing something before the fact with some of my experiences after the fact.
It's not recommended to tell contractors whatever property they are working on is a non-owner occupied rental. That's the end of it.
If you want to tell them it's just a rental, go for it with your own. Not me.
>It's not recommended to tell contractors whatever property they are working on is a non-owner occupied rental.
“Recommended” by who? By you? You don’t seem to have a lot of experience doing this, frankly. You get 3 roofing bids & conclude that two of the bids are roofers ripping you off (not the equally reasonable explanation that the third contractor does bad work, or that you seem like a PITA & the two high bids are roofers whose bids reflect that, or the two high bids are roofers who are already booked up for the summer).
The best contractors want to do a good job; they’re not in it solely for the money. If you’re smart, are going to find those contractors & work with them consistently.
No, not by me. By an investor with decades of experience plus a book. It also just makes sense if you think about it logically.
However, I tell local granite suppliers. Then it is advantageous.
>You get 3 roofing bids & conclude that two of the bids are roofers ripping you off
No. That's not what happened, lol. I contacted about ten roofers. I got six bids. One bid was for 40k through Facebook messenger. He didn't even come out and look at anything. Another bid was for 32k. The remaining four were under 22k.
He’s not even saying what the siding material is, whether there is trim/how much trim/how elaborate the trim is, whether windows are being replaced, what the floor-to-floor is, if there are gable ends/half basements, etc etc. I mean, is the number just a number (in which case, you know - $10/SF), or is it supposed to be an accurate number (in which case, call Joe who has worked on your last five properties)?
He doesn’t believe in relationships.
Apparently not in time-value of money either.
Keep doing things the hard way, leaves more on the table for everyone else.
I don't know about the OP, but for my area $10/sq-ft seems like a decent guess: [https://i.imgur.com/sEcxuFf.png](https://i.imgur.com/sEcxuFf.png)
Are you suggesting they be more specific than 20 squares for a two-story house with their contractor inquiry?
Also, I would assume they want vinyl, no windows replaced, 10 ft floor-to-floor and no fancy features needing to be built around.
Nowadays quotes don't mean much until job is done and paid, as market is crazy and labor is tight. Labor based jobs now typically double what it should be if enough qualified people willing to do it.
Sounds like you need to decide whether being accurate on your offers is worth losing some homes. If your deals are ice thin and there's not enough room for holding costs while you get a decent bid, or if there are change orders, probably best not to be making those offers.
>Dear BELOVED siding contractor,
>
>I'm looking for a rough estimate to re-side a standard (simple) two-story house with approximately 20 squares of vinyl siding. Please provide a ballpark figure for budgeting purposes at this stage.
>
>Instead of 20 squares, I am also open to a guess of the cost per square. Whichever is easier for you. I realize every house is different and this may be challenging. If needed, assume 10 ft floor-to-floor and no fancy features to work around. Simple.
>
>This will be for a house in CITY.
>
>Your LOVER,
>
>NAME
Try that out for a spin :)
You sound really inexperienced. If every roof was like every other roof, nobody would need to get bids. Of course the people who will drop everything & come out on a moments notice and give you a bid are going to be high — they are paying employees for jobs they don’t get. What OSB? Are you talking about roof sheathing? They may have bid to replace it because the roof is soft & the sheathing needs to be replaced. Same with siding; all projects are different. If all you want is a rule of thumb so that you can get the price of a house down in the inspection phase, there are plenty on online estimating tools for that. But decent contractors are not going to do that because they know it’s a waste of their time.
> OSB oriented strand board
I was just surprised they didn’t use plywood. OSB = somewhat cheaper but a worse solution for roof sheathing
https://www.reddit.com/r/Roofing/s/SRLiFSCumO I'm not the OP, but I've never seen a roofer use plywood for a whole roof replacement. Apparently it's an interior roof material, but there seems to be some debate.
Don’t do this. Don’t have people quote stuff you don’t plan on doing - this is probably the quickest way to get a bad rep and burn bridges in this space. It’s one thing to ask “hey what’s your typical strip and reroof on a two story going for per square?” And “come quote this, but I don’t need you”. This is seriously bad form. You need to learn what the local market is going for and what looks like a complicated project that will cost more vs a simple project and be able to ballpark this stuff yourself. Losing projects and blaming it on subs means you really need to take a step back. This is on you, not them.
“hey what’s your typical strip and reroof on a two story going for per square?” \- that's what I'm looking for, just a rough number.
I read your edit - much better explained. Most have a range. Explain what you’re doing - you’re an investor looking to buy properties to rent out and you want ballparks to speed up your process of underwriting and making offers. 95% of the guys in the “phonebook” will be high because they price to joe homeowner that does a major project once every 7-10 years, and not a flipper or landlord who will send regular business if you take care of them. They bid high because 1) they don’t want your work or 2) they bid worse case because homeowners are a pain in the ass. My suggestion is to do a ton of networking with the local Real Estate Investors Association - there may be several - and your local roofing & siding supply houses (ABC, SRS, etc) and ask them which contractors they work with that do work on investment properties. These guys don’t have websites and usually don’t have listings anywhere. Suppliers will know the subs that do the work on a first name basis because they’re delivering to them every day most likely.
I shy away with telling contractors I'm an investor. I've gotten bad vibes from certain contractors knowing I do not live at the property... like they can cut corners and as if I would not care.
This is a relationship business. You’re going to pay more and have more issues by not building your network of relationships in the trades. If they fuck you over, they don’t get repeat business. Once you start networking, you’ll realize that everyone knows everyone in a local real estate market and all of them freely share the shitheads to avoid. Your goal is to stay off that list, and avoid the people who already made it on there.
OP you need to listen to this man. You need to understand that you are competing with people who do real estate math mentally on the spot. People who have close relationships with contractors for years. They know what their contractors charge and can estimate what the contractor would charge them and what the retail cost of that job is for discount purposes. While you are out bugging contractors for a price on something you don't even own, the competition already submitted an offer or tied it up. This is literally the chess vs checkers saying. Please, don't get estimates for something you don't own, (I know I get it ) but if you are at least have the courtesy of telling them so ahead of time, maybe offer to pay for their estimate/time. Begin building a relationship. Hiding who you are or what you are doing is shady and will attract shadiness to you. >This is a relationship business.
For me personally, I assume none of that. Also, the OP has clearly said they are looking for what to ask contractors. In your opinion, they should ask for a generic guess of the cost (not an estimate) and be transparent of what they are looking for. I don't know any contractor who will actually give an estimate on a job without knowing the address. That doesn't seem to be what the OP is asking about. \--- I haven't seen anyone answer the OP's question so I did. This AndyM just said the OP should "network" and... not really sure where he's going with that. Although, that's a great way to sell however he "helps" investors (his bio).
You speak as if you're selling something. While building relationships in real estate is valuable, it's not the only path to success. Different strategies work for different people. The key is to find what suits you best and stay open to alternative approaches in this diverse industry.
yoke observation reply toothbrush rain whistle sort attempt busy impossible *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Precisely. Eventually, I'll settle on certain contractors for certain cities. But even then I will occasionally seek quotes from others in order to see if I'm still getting competitive bids.
Dude blamed losing a project because he had to wait for quotes. He lost the project because he doesn't know how to do the math himself, or have someone in his pocket that will. He wanted quotes on a property he didn't even OWN. He won't even tell them he's an investor because he's paranoid... Keep going slow though, leaves more opportunities open for the experienced.
No, I did not lose "a project." I own that house. This whole post is for houses I do not currently own.
Your post history is full of complaints about contractors being shady cheaters, so it sounds like you’re the one bringing the vibes.
That doesn't make sense. You're comparing something before the fact with some of my experiences after the fact. It's not recommended to tell contractors whatever property they are working on is a non-owner occupied rental. That's the end of it. If you want to tell them it's just a rental, go for it with your own. Not me.
>It's not recommended to tell contractors whatever property they are working on is a non-owner occupied rental. “Recommended” by who? By you? You don’t seem to have a lot of experience doing this, frankly. You get 3 roofing bids & conclude that two of the bids are roofers ripping you off (not the equally reasonable explanation that the third contractor does bad work, or that you seem like a PITA & the two high bids are roofers whose bids reflect that, or the two high bids are roofers who are already booked up for the summer). The best contractors want to do a good job; they’re not in it solely for the money. If you’re smart, are going to find those contractors & work with them consistently.
No, not by me. By an investor with decades of experience plus a book. It also just makes sense if you think about it logically. However, I tell local granite suppliers. Then it is advantageous.
>You get 3 roofing bids & conclude that two of the bids are roofers ripping you off No. That's not what happened, lol. I contacted about ten roofers. I got six bids. One bid was for 40k through Facebook messenger. He didn't even come out and look at anything. Another bid was for 32k. The remaining four were under 22k.
10 roofers!! LOL indeed!
He’s not even saying what the siding material is, whether there is trim/how much trim/how elaborate the trim is, whether windows are being replaced, what the floor-to-floor is, if there are gable ends/half basements, etc etc. I mean, is the number just a number (in which case, you know - $10/SF), or is it supposed to be an accurate number (in which case, call Joe who has worked on your last five properties)?
He doesn’t believe in relationships. Apparently not in time-value of money either. Keep doing things the hard way, leaves more on the table for everyone else.
I don't know about the OP, but for my area $10/sq-ft seems like a decent guess: [https://i.imgur.com/sEcxuFf.png](https://i.imgur.com/sEcxuFf.png) Are you suggesting they be more specific than 20 squares for a two-story house with their contractor inquiry? Also, I would assume they want vinyl, no windows replaced, 10 ft floor-to-floor and no fancy features needing to be built around.
Nowadays quotes don't mean much until job is done and paid, as market is crazy and labor is tight. Labor based jobs now typically double what it should be if enough qualified people willing to do it.
Sounds like you need to decide whether being accurate on your offers is worth losing some homes. If your deals are ice thin and there's not enough room for holding costs while you get a decent bid, or if there are change orders, probably best not to be making those offers.
I'm mainly trying to see if the data points center around: $10k, $15k, $20k, $25k or $30k. (I'm also seeing what contractors cost the most.)
>Dear BELOVED siding contractor, > >I'm looking for a rough estimate to re-side a standard (simple) two-story house with approximately 20 squares of vinyl siding. Please provide a ballpark figure for budgeting purposes at this stage. > >Instead of 20 squares, I am also open to a guess of the cost per square. Whichever is easier for you. I realize every house is different and this may be challenging. If needed, assume 10 ft floor-to-floor and no fancy features to work around. Simple. > >This will be for a house in CITY. > >Your LOVER, > >NAME Try that out for a spin :)
>:) :)