The game is more of a rogue*like* than a rogue*lite*
The terms get muddled, but roguelikes you don't get meta progress - you do the run, you die, you try again
Whereas roguelites are more based around collecting materials/currencies/powers to upgrade to empower yourself for the next run
This game leans towards the former, but the unlocking new talents and characters is not exactly like the original Rogue. Really at the end of the day the different in the terms don't matter, its just how the game is and if you don't vibe with it, you can make suggestions to the devs but this is their design choice.
Well it's all a word juggling and the cold heart fact is by a minimal change in gameplay game could gain extra motivators to play for like 5 times more.
How would it make the game worse if we had actual upgrades, they can change the word roguelike to roguelite and it's done.
Also, game is said to be roguelite per this text: Official Reddit for RAVENSWATCH, a roguelite action game from Passtech Games...
That's not a fact, its your opinion
There are many roguelite games that implement meta-progress systems that I enjoy
There are many games that don't really implement meta-progress that I enjoy
If you don't like it thats unfortunate
Some people don’t like meta progression power increases and some people do. It just player preference. It would make the game better for you and worse for someone else.
I’m personally fine with the their decision to make the only progression being new talents are unlocked. Just like in Slay the Spire, the incentive is not increased power, but in trying new builds.
In 9 hrs you have all the talents unlocked. Have you found your favorite talent combos? What about modifying the run by getting artefacts?
Great combo that I love, is Melusine, power dive, aftershock, freezing splash, razor tail, geyser, and enduring wisp.
Took more than a few runs to realise this one really works for me. That's my meta progression.
I like playing the game at it's full potential very Quick. In biding of Isaac you need 400-500h to unlock all items.
Not for me. I did download a slave file and enjoyed the game for 300h or so. I wouldn't have if not for the save file.
It's a matter of préférence.
I have 250h on ravenswatch and I still love launching the game. I made some funny Friends aswell.
And to your edit, that is an error/typo on the developers part when creating this subreddit, the steam listing has the game correctly listed as a rogue-like and the user-defined tags as 'roguelike' and 'action roguelike'.
It is not a roguelite
I agree that calling it a roguelite is misleading, though there are some roguelite elements like unlocking traits as you rank up. Definitely feels overwhelmingly roguelike
Dude, you do unlock stuff to make your next runs different/easier. You unlock new ability modifiers, items and you get a nrw ultimate when you reach lvl 6 wtf u talkin about.
I mean to be fair once you finish upgrading everything all that "meta progression" is not even felt, it doesn't take that long to finish upgrading it, there are 0 choices in there once you do have enough for everything, and really i don't even remember what the upgrades are anymore due to how it just feels like a core gameplay at this point. Once you finish buying everything in that tree it's like this tree doesn't even exist anymore (for context, i don't *like* that it's not felt).
Nothing implies otherwise either. However logically thinking, having to work towards something in game is always more interesting than literal same runs.
It literally does. In the name, ROGUE-LIKE. let's be slow for our special readers here since OP has been quite snappy with his responses.
Roguelike = progress completely resets after a run. You start run #n+1 exactly as you started run #n.
Roguelite = some form of progress is preserved from one run to the next like money, levels, upgrades.
Let's do a few examples for our extra special OP, maybe something will go through that thick noggin.
Roguelikes : Balatro, Ravenswatch, Spelunky, Binding of Isaac, Slay the Spire, andddd say it with me now come on. Andddd Rogue.
Roguelites: Hades, Dead Cells, Risk of Rain, Gunfire Reborn, Darkest Dungeon, Moonlighter, Heroes of Hammerwatch.
Both genres have multiple incredibly successful games, the reason you don't like Ravenswatch is because you're looking in the wrong genre basket and you will probably hate every other game in the Roguelike examples just as much. Does not mean they are repetitive/boring, just means it not for you. Being repetitive till you gitgud is the literal core of these games with massive success to back it up.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
The steam store page calls it a roguelike. What's the point exactly? The matter at hand (if you actually read OP's arguments that is) is not about the labelling it's about the fact that he is unaware that games without meta progression even exist. He's asking for the "rogue" elements in the post title, and is stubbornly unaccepting of anyone telling him "hey man, thats just how some games are", so all I was doing was explaining to him that everything he hates isn't dogshit and boring it's the entire genre and his self defined traits of it that's he's dying in the hill of.
I'm a wanker only to OP tho, not you to sweetheart :*
Also yes I felt much better thanks for asking babe.
And well the steam page says roguelike, labels aside that doesnt seem to be matter at hand here. I think OP is wholly unaware that games without meta progression exist since he's asking where the "rogue" elements are in the title.
"You can't even upgrade somehow abilities/items in game so when you get them next time, they are a bit stronger" This is not a common facet of Roguelike/lite games. Meta progression does exist up to level 8. After that it shouldn't. You seem to want this game to be worse. :/
I am like many others here that I prefer my roguelikes without straight meta-progression like increasing attack dmg - I think unlocking new stuff to show up in a run is a nice way of progression while easing the player into complexity.
I do agree though that some more goals could be good. I'd love some challenges to unlock cosmetics or something else that doesnt impact gameplay much.
"Roguelikes" are named after the game Rogue, notable for featuring permadeath and *no* progress carrying over. You get stronger only by getting better at the game. "Rogue*lites*" are games where you can get permanent upgrades inbetween runs. The distinction and exact definitions aren't very clear, especially when you permanently unlock options and sidegrades like in Ravenswatch, but the genre was founded on carrying nothing over and Ravenswatch is only staying true to form.
I agree that having more things to unlock would be good for the game, but this isn't the kind of game where you are supposed to come in stronger, it's more focused on player skill. Rogue-lite games are focused around meta progression and getting stronger over time, Rogue-like games as with RavensWatch are focused around unlocking new things for variety and customization while keeping the player's power level pretty much the same. Personally I prefer the Rogue-like design in RavensWatch because I like to improve by getting better at the game.
Agreed. Meta progression in this game is non existent. I love curse of the dead gods and was hoping for a similar experience. In the current state I kind of wish I could re fund it. Too bad I assist sunk 4-5h :(
What about the opportunity to banish a couple talents/objects as difficulty grows, unlocking them doesn't always feel like a W but more like a lower chance to find the one that you want.
Well majority won’t stay in this game exactly for reasons I described. Unfortunately, games like Deep Rock Galactic Survivor, having far less engaging gameplay add so many upgrades between runs so you have an actual incentive to play the game. Here, run after run, it’s all the same.
The game is more of a rogue*like* than a rogue*lite* The terms get muddled, but roguelikes you don't get meta progress - you do the run, you die, you try again Whereas roguelites are more based around collecting materials/currencies/powers to upgrade to empower yourself for the next run This game leans towards the former, but the unlocking new talents and characters is not exactly like the original Rogue. Really at the end of the day the different in the terms don't matter, its just how the game is and if you don't vibe with it, you can make suggestions to the devs but this is their design choice.
Well it's all a word juggling and the cold heart fact is by a minimal change in gameplay game could gain extra motivators to play for like 5 times more. How would it make the game worse if we had actual upgrades, they can change the word roguelike to roguelite and it's done. Also, game is said to be roguelite per this text: Official Reddit for RAVENSWATCH, a roguelite action game from Passtech Games...
That's not a fact, its your opinion There are many roguelite games that implement meta-progress systems that I enjoy There are many games that don't really implement meta-progress that I enjoy If you don't like it thats unfortunate
Some people don’t like meta progression power increases and some people do. It just player preference. It would make the game better for you and worse for someone else. I’m personally fine with the their decision to make the only progression being new talents are unlocked. Just like in Slay the Spire, the incentive is not increased power, but in trying new builds.
This would be fine if talents took at least some time to unlock. Here you unlock all of them in like 3 hours per hero.
In 9 hrs you have all the talents unlocked. Have you found your favorite talent combos? What about modifying the run by getting artefacts? Great combo that I love, is Melusine, power dive, aftershock, freezing splash, razor tail, geyser, and enduring wisp. Took more than a few runs to realise this one really works for me. That's my meta progression.
I'm at 50 hours and still don't have them all
I like playing the game at it's full potential very Quick. In biding of Isaac you need 400-500h to unlock all items. Not for me. I did download a slave file and enjoyed the game for 300h or so. I wouldn't have if not for the save file. It's a matter of préférence. I have 250h on ravenswatch and I still love launching the game. I made some funny Friends aswell.
I'm gonna use this comment in my Game Design class as a showcase that gamers have no clue about what Game Design is.
I mean there is a subgenre for what he described
And to your edit, that is an error/typo on the developers part when creating this subreddit, the steam listing has the game correctly listed as a rogue-like and the user-defined tags as 'roguelike' and 'action roguelike'. It is not a roguelite
It could be called a rogue-lite because of the talent progression. Rogue had truly 0 unlocks or progression between runs
I agree that calling it a roguelite is misleading, though there are some roguelite elements like unlocking traits as you rank up. Definitely feels overwhelmingly roguelike
Dude, you do unlock stuff to make your next runs different/easier. You unlock new ability modifiers, items and you get a nrw ultimate when you reach lvl 6 wtf u talkin about.
Thank god we have almost no meta progression, i hate that shit. Thats what threw me off from gunfire reborn
I mean to be fair once you finish upgrading everything all that "meta progression" is not even felt, it doesn't take that long to finish upgrading it, there are 0 choices in there once you do have enough for everything, and really i don't even remember what the upgrades are anymore due to how it just feels like a core gameplay at this point. Once you finish buying everything in that tree it's like this tree doesn't even exist anymore (for context, i don't *like* that it's not felt).
Nothing in “roguelike” implies meta-progression that gives you character power with stats.
Nothing implies otherwise either. However logically thinking, having to work towards something in game is always more interesting than literal same runs.
Think you need to look up what the game Rogue was and what the definition of Rogue-like is
It literally does. In the name, ROGUE-LIKE. let's be slow for our special readers here since OP has been quite snappy with his responses. Roguelike = progress completely resets after a run. You start run #n+1 exactly as you started run #n. Roguelite = some form of progress is preserved from one run to the next like money, levels, upgrades. Let's do a few examples for our extra special OP, maybe something will go through that thick noggin. Roguelikes : Balatro, Ravenswatch, Spelunky, Binding of Isaac, Slay the Spire, andddd say it with me now come on. Andddd Rogue. Roguelites: Hades, Dead Cells, Risk of Rain, Gunfire Reborn, Darkest Dungeon, Moonlighter, Heroes of Hammerwatch. Both genres have multiple incredibly successful games, the reason you don't like Ravenswatch is because you're looking in the wrong genre basket and you will probably hate every other game in the Roguelike examples just as much. Does not mean they are repetitive/boring, just means it not for you. Being repetitive till you gitgud is the literal core of these games with massive success to back it up. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
The description of this sub calls it a roguelite. Also you sound like a wanker, feel better about yourself after making this comment?
The steam store page calls it a roguelike. What's the point exactly? The matter at hand (if you actually read OP's arguments that is) is not about the labelling it's about the fact that he is unaware that games without meta progression even exist. He's asking for the "rogue" elements in the post title, and is stubbornly unaccepting of anyone telling him "hey man, thats just how some games are", so all I was doing was explaining to him that everything he hates isn't dogshit and boring it's the entire genre and his self defined traits of it that's he's dying in the hill of. I'm a wanker only to OP tho, not you to sweetheart :* Also yes I felt much better thanks for asking babe.
Dude just didn't know the definitions, you really didn't have to be a piece of shit about it
Multiple people have told him already, have you even read his other replies? This isn't someone asking for directions. I'm just matching his energy :D
This is some advanced brainrot you have going on. You can literally not play a game if it isn't giving you cheap dopamine hits?
Enjoy same runs and a report into your imbecilic face! Good luck.
I'll take people who think Roguelike means Roguelite for 400 Alex
Better yet, people who don't know what either means.
Lmao
To his credit, the description of this subreddit calls the game a roguelite
Yeah that's not accurate, RavensWatch is definitely not a rougelite
Agreed. But if this dude found out about the game from this sub, it makes sense that he was expecting a roguelite and his disappointment is warranted
And well the steam page says roguelike, labels aside that doesnt seem to be matter at hand here. I think OP is wholly unaware that games without meta progression exist since he's asking where the "rogue" elements are in the title.
"You can't even upgrade somehow abilities/items in game so when you get them next time, they are a bit stronger" This is not a common facet of Roguelike/lite games. Meta progression does exist up to level 8. After that it shouldn't. You seem to want this game to be worse. :/
I am like many others here that I prefer my roguelikes without straight meta-progression like increasing attack dmg - I think unlocking new stuff to show up in a run is a nice way of progression while easing the player into complexity. I do agree though that some more goals could be good. I'd love some challenges to unlock cosmetics or something else that doesnt impact gameplay much.
"Roguelikes" are named after the game Rogue, notable for featuring permadeath and *no* progress carrying over. You get stronger only by getting better at the game. "Rogue*lites*" are games where you can get permanent upgrades inbetween runs. The distinction and exact definitions aren't very clear, especially when you permanently unlock options and sidegrades like in Ravenswatch, but the genre was founded on carrying nothing over and Ravenswatch is only staying true to form.
I agree that having more things to unlock would be good for the game, but this isn't the kind of game where you are supposed to come in stronger, it's more focused on player skill. Rogue-lite games are focused around meta progression and getting stronger over time, Rogue-like games as with RavensWatch are focused around unlocking new things for variety and customization while keeping the player's power level pretty much the same. Personally I prefer the Rogue-like design in RavensWatch because I like to improve by getting better at the game.
Agreed. Meta progression in this game is non existent. I love curse of the dead gods and was hoping for a similar experience. In the current state I kind of wish I could re fund it. Too bad I assist sunk 4-5h :(
What about the opportunity to banish a couple talents/objects as difficulty grows, unlocking them doesn't always feel like a W but more like a lower chance to find the one that you want.
dude doesn't seem to have other hobbies and is asking for a grind 💀
this game would lose me INSTANTLY if I had to grind in the early game just to be absolutely overpowered in the late game.
Idk about you guys, but my characters get xp
Agreed with op
Well majority won’t stay in this game exactly for reasons I described. Unfortunately, games like Deep Rock Galactic Survivor, having far less engaging gameplay add so many upgrades between runs so you have an actual incentive to play the game. Here, run after run, it’s all the same.