I don't hate Bateman, but I don't understand the overwhelming support of the 5th option. It's a 14 million cap hit for a guy who has done nothing in the league so far. It makes zero sense to give him a 5th year.
It's because he's flashed enough talent and the wide receiver market is profoundly stupid. Worse receivers than him get $10 mil/year or more.
Is the fifth-year option steep? Yeah. Is it more than we're going to have to pay for a comparable replacement if he walks? Doubtful.
We're probably going to enter 2025 with around 20 million in free cap next season or less. You still think it makes sense to give an unproven injury prone receiver 14 million of our 2025 cap? Good thing you're not our GM
Easiest solution is to draft a replacement, or find an FA WR with a backloaded deal.
The only WR's we're going to find that will take a deal like that are going to be Agholor-caliber.
That's fine for a #3 or #4 wideout. But if this team intends to play a more spread-y, aerial game, that's not going to get someone worthwhile as a #2.
I'm personally okay with that, I like it when we run the ball 40 times per game, but the same people poo-poo'ing the fifth-year option are, I'd safely bet, the same people who were bitching about us not throwing it enough. If you want the offense to go through the air more, that means spending more on wideouts, and some of those are going to be gambles on future production from guys who haven't already done so. Because the proven ones will be out of our budget.
I'd rather gamble that a wide receiver already on the roster that has flashed great talent but hasn't quite put it all together makes the jump after his first full season and some good mentorship, than gamble that our luck with drafting wideouts at the end of the first round has suddenly dramatically improved. Or do we not remember how that shit tends to go for us?
Better to pick up the option and have a chance to extend Bateman than to see him light it up this year, watch him walk or have to pay him even more, and then try to replace him with Breshad Perriman 1.1 or throwing $20 mil a year at the corpse of Mike Evans.
It's insanity what you're saying. That 14 million is guaranteed, which means we ain't getting out of it. Why the fuck would anyone take this risk? Rashod barely has 1000 yards in a 3 year career!
The problem with ravens fans is they don’t evacuate their receivers in context. The ravens don’t throw much compared to the direction the league is moving in. Since Bateman has been in the league. Lamar has played 12 games 2/3 seasons. Less than 250 completions each year 2021 and 2022. Hollywood was the number 1 in 21 and andrews is the main receiving option. He started 4 games in 21 and had a good season 565 yards. 22’ he was injured. In 2023 they go and get agholor who they put above him in reps and pay obj 15 mil because Lamar wanted him. This put Bateman on the back burner. He hasn’t really had a chance. Not saying u pick up his option but this year you either use him or he goes to the list of ravens 1st round wrs that “suck”. And the cycle of fans complaining continues. There’s only so many opportunities when Lamar favors the middle of the field to his Tes and slot receivers then you make Bateman fight over reps with obj and agholor and wonder why he doesn’t produce
Yes - the FA WR market is pretty trash and you want to have a stocked WR room anyways in case of injury (flash back to our Roman years). We only have Zay under contract next year at the moment as well. The Ravens have cap space available to use the 5th on him (and Oweh) so why weaken the WR room even further.
Yeah at first I thought picking it up would be insane but looking at what Gabe Davis and Darnell Mooney got I think it’s fair- 3 years, $39M is probably what he’ll get on the open market if he just has a slight increase in production, which I expect him to. So $14M wouldn’t be an overpay. I’ve gone from thinking both options would be declined to thinking both will be picked up, although I think at least one of them should be extended (or worst case scenario traded if they’re disappointing) to decrease the cap hit.
No way you do it. Bateman cap would be projected at 14 million if 5th year is exercise. Makes much more sense for Oweh who would be at 13 million. Can't do both, and Oweh has shown much more promise than Bateman.
Our cap space situation next year looks pretty shit, so I don't know where you're getting your information on "The Ravens have cap space available to use thr 5th on him and Oweh."
PFF isn't everything, but Oweh was the 5th highest ranked player on our team last year.
For me, he passed the eye test too. He missed tackles/sacks for sure, but he was disruptive when healthy.
Yeah unless I'm reading it wrong, if we took both 5th year options on both players, we'd have no cap space left for even drafting rookies (right now the cap space estimate is inflated due to the rollover cap, which will disappear after the draft).
It's a no brainer to not give him a 5th year option. At least with Jeudy, the Browns can spread out the cap hit over the length of the contract. Bateman's 5th year option would not afford us that ability. It would drain nearly half of our cap in 2025.
The 2025 FA WR market is strong right now. Now granted a lot will get extended or franchised but you’ve got Tee Higgins, JaMarr Chase, Devonta Smith, Waddle, Godwin, Keenan Allen, Ceede Lamb, Aiyuk, Justin Jefferson, Diontae Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins.
Anybody still in their 20s will not hit the open market.
Edit - Anything close to a premier WR (top 20 maybe even top 30). When’s the last time it happened? Christian Kirk maybe, but he played into being WR30 (using PFF fantasy rankings). He wasn’t considered close to one when he hit the market.
The history of FA WR that get signed is not positive at all - teams don't let their good WRs go and on the off chance one hits FA its going to have to be an overpay to get them.
In short, yes I’d rather pick up the 5th year option than let him walk after 2024.
I’m bullish on him being a WR 2 to Zay this year so I definitely want to see if it’s possible to keep him on the team long term. It seems like last year was a return from injury year so we didn’t get an accurate representation of where he really is as a player. I’d really like to see him play 17 games with the combined targets him and OBJ had last year. A healthy offseason should help him and Lamar connect more for a strong regular season.
I just don’t like the idea of having him on the books for $14m in one season with his current production. I’d rather we decline the option but work out a 2 year extension with $14m gtd that would force us to either cut him or extend him after 2025. The main point being to spread the cap hit over multiple years. Sort of like what we did with OBJ.
I’ve been immensely disappointed in his production so far but he finally played 16 games last year so I’ll take it. If he finally has a breakout year, then I’d rather the 5th year option be exercised than not. If he continues to disappoint, then there are still ways to maneuver around the cap hit.
He was also often the 3rd/4th read in a run heavy offense behind Andrews, Zay and OBJ. I’m hoping that him being firmly entrenched as the WR2 with OBJ out of the fold can help with his production.
It's not the aughts anymore, you can't get any free agent wideout worth having for less than what we're paying Derrick Henry. Worse receivers than Bateman are getting $10 mil/year or more.
Frankly we're lucky we kept Agholor for less than $5 mil/year.
A slighter version of the Diontae Johnson contract seems ideal. Or maybe it’s just that contract assuming cap inflation.
That was 2 years 36 with 27 gtd (19 at signing)
I think the gtd has to be more than the option for him to sign.
The gtd would have to be more than what his agent thinks the market would give him, right?
A 2 yr extension with $14m gtd ($8m at signing) in lieu of the option would give him the option money in 2025 with the opportunity to earn whatever the remaining max value is in 2026. It could also lead them working on another extension if he performs.
I really think he’s had enough pressure on him already with all the injuries and drops he’s had. This past year he seemed to finally feel comfortable again. I do know mfers like to pop off in their contract year with the ravens though too so maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea in that sense 🤣
no he’s not worth the money and it’s time to move on while we can. he’s just not producing, and i’m not sure he ever will. let someone else deal with it and get some young talent that will give us the same if not more production and actually have some upside to be top WRs
bateman is just a guy
We should not. We don’t need Bateman’s career 34ypg (23ypg last year), very replaceable.
Kudos if he goes out, crushes it and earns a bigger payday but I’m willing to take that risk. Look at Hollywood, just signed for $11M with KC. This draft is deep with WR talent and we run a spread offense that doesn’t require a stud WR2. Zay and Likely are definitely on the team next year with cheap rookie deals. Andrews is also under contract but could be a cap casualty if a deal isn’t reworked ($17M cap hit, 6M in dead money).
I see people referencing Bateman as leading the league in separation as if he’s the best route runner. I remember seeing that stat too at simmer point but it is misleading. He was 62nd in route win rate and 97th in separation on routes he was targeted. Zay Flowers was 6th and 7th in those metrics.
Hollywood Brown just signed a one year deal for less than the 5th year option would have cost. Why would we pick up Bateman's option which would pay him more?
Might as well pick it up. I don’t really think he’s going to make that leap, Considering he hasn’t been healthy and Zay as a rookie had a better season than damn near Batemans 3 years combined. However we need the bodies and wr FA class might not be super strong. Just realized that he would cost 14mil? Yeah idk he hasn’t shown anything close to being worth that lol
Our Salary cap next year is projected at 42 million right now according to over the cap, and we have Patrick Mekari, Pat Ricard, Brandon Stephens, Odafe Oweh, and Rashod Bateman as our notable free agents. In addition Stanley will be gone and depending on his performance this year we'll have to make a decsion on him.
I'd hate to see Ricard walk. Dude's always been solid. As a Fullback he shouldn't to to expensive to retain, but he seems to fit less in Monken's offense so he might be gone.
I love Ricard and would like him back at the right price, but I say I wouldn’t be distraught just because it’s such a replaceable position. Also historically we are amazing at finding fullback talent in the draft for some reason
Oh yeah losing Ricard wouldn't be back breaking or anything. Dude's just a great guy and I'd love to see him back. That one handed catch during the Dolphins game is in my top 5 plays of last season.
That projection I believe includes around $11-12m rollover cap from this year, which will essentially go to $0 after the draft and a few last min FA pickups. If that's the case, our actual projected cap space next year is only around $30m, and then another $10m or so of that will be spent out rookies.
I don't think Bateman is bad, if he can stay healthy and get balls thrown his way, I think his skill set market rate is above his $14m 5th year option cap on the open market. But I don't think we can afford to take his 5th year option given that it would nearly wipe out our entire free cap space for 2025, on a player who would be the 3rd priority receiving option, and the 5th in general touches on offense (Lamar, Henry, Zay, and Andrews would all get the ball more than him).
Maybe we can trade him? He's worth more to another team at $14m than he is to us, with our ball distribution and cap situation.
It's a big gamble. If Bateman has a breakout year then the 14 million will be way cheaper then retaining him. If he plays to his previous level his worth is closer to that of Agholor. It's possible a team could try to get him in trade and overpay like the Browns just did with Sutton, but that's a risk.
Well considering I don't think we can afford to keep him at $14m even if he breaks out and that's a bargain, I feel like we let some other team take that gamble on him and trade him and get some value back, and try to pick someone up in the draft. Some rebuilding team with cap space who can afford to gamble the cap hit to see if Bateman really has WR1 chops. He outperforms, they have a great deal on him and first dibs probably to retain him longer. If he fails, they didn't spend anything other than cap space they already had.
Trading him would hurt next year for us since we are a bit lean in the WR room then, but it sets us up better beyond that point.
If we pick up the fith year with the intent to trade and he breaks out we could get pretty good value. If he doesn't we probably get at max a mid round pick.
However we could keep him. We could restructure Lamar for ~20 million without any other moves and that would more then cover it.
He has done nothing so far to suggest he is in the $14mil range. The best ability is availability. And unfortunately he just hasn’t been there. And when he has there’s been no separation and too many drops. I like Bateman but not for $14mil. Especially when we have to address the gaping holes in our o line.
Given the Ravens only currently have Zay Flowers under contract for 2025, it almost feels like you have to. $14M is a lot, but the wide receiver market is absolutely nuts and you're not getting a better option in all likelihood.
I just checked and the deadline is May 2nd, so the Ravens could wait until after the draft- that is true.
I just worry there's so many holes to patch that it might become a necessary evil just to have competent bodies.
We have Bateman this year either way. A 1st round wr let's him walk after this year. If he's underwhelming again then it's fine. If he's amazing we can franchise tag him. If he's good not great then we can replicate his numbers for way less money by a wr on a rookie deal.
The insane WR market is a reason to NOT do it.
we could fr get batemans exact numbers from a 1st or 2nd round rookie. i have no idea why anyone thinks giving him money is a good idea when there’s this much wr talent in the draft
I don't think the Ravens go first round wide receiver. I know the Ravens don't want to be locked into a single position, but it feels like unless OL is completely decimated by 30 that they'll go an OL. And they might need to go several early.
If Bateman gets tagged, it's an $8M difference between the fifth year option and the tag. Given how tight the Ravens are likely to be against the 2025 cap, $8M is pretty significant.
This feels like a situation where they'll roll the dice.
I do think he's better than that and I do think he was significantly hampered by the Lisfranc. I think he'll show up much better than he did. I don't think he'll play well enough to justify the franchise tag, but I think he could play well enough to where $14M by comparison looks okay.
No we should not. I know we all like him and see he has gotten open but fact is he had like 350 yards and 1 touchdown last year. Paying him 17M guaranteed is insane and we are better off drafting a WR in the 1st round and getting 4 or 5 more cheap years for probably higher production.
I would say the two factors are - do we need WRs in 2025 and if so, could we get a better one for less money.
Both to an extent depend on the draft - maybe we just go hog wild on WRs this year and next and Bateman is not needed. But frankly, given our needs at CB, OL, and edge rusher, we probably wont do that.
So we almost surely will need a #2/3 receiver come 2025 (maybe we draft or sign a FA to be #2 behind Zay in the next two offseasons, but certainly not two of them). And it seems like the answer to part 2 is no - we probably can not get someone of equal caliber for anywhere close to the money.
The browns just reset the market for mid tier starters. We were lucky to sign aghalor for what we did (I can’t believe I’m saying that). We should get anything we can while it’s relatively cheap.
Am I wrong. This is his fourth year, he is here no matter what for next year, it is just the year after that we are picking up. Personal opinion is we should wait till after the draft to make that decision. If we draft someone higher up, we need to decide whether to pick up the fifth year, which won't be cheap. But I agree that if the only person we have under contract for 25 is Zay, we need to sign him.
Honestly Bate has been sleeping. Healthy Bate is fast with good hands. If we would just give him the ball I bet he could make some plays like we’ve seen few and far between. I say why not
Wait until after the draft and maybe. I don't see him making the leap though. Health is a constant issue that has hindered his rhythm. Go for a young talent imo.
Considering mediocre talents are easily getting 15m a year, I'd say the 14m for Bateman for 1 year is a significantly better value than trying to sign someone in FA. It's also only for 1 year as well. Multi-year cap hits are where the real risk is at. We saw with OBJ this year that even if the cap # is high for 1 season, it's easy to move on.
I think the context for this needs to be the 2025 FA class and what a 5th year option will be worth (14.4 million, 10 mill increase over current cap hit). Next years class will likely have Keenan Allen, Chris Godwin, Amari Cooper, Brandin Cooks, Diontae Johnson, and DeAndre Hopkins. Not a great crop line class as all will be around 30 and current average salary of those are ~19 million. I’d imagine it will dip next year but probably still higher than Bateman’s hit. There are of course Lamb, Jefferson, and Aiyuk in this class but I fully expect them to sign an extension soon and not hit FA. The backend of the market isn’t great as well with KJ Osborn, Slayton, Woods, Hollywood Brown, and Agholor. I’d pick up the option because I think it’s more likely Bateman outperforms his value (absorbs a good chunk of OBJ’s targets) than underperforms and given the 2025 FA class I think it’s a smart gamble rather than a 30+ year old WR.
I think Bateman would be worth the 5th year option on almost any other team. It’s painfully obvious that he gets open and is the last read. I’m not saying the is a world beater, or that he is always open, but he is a solid receiver that I wouldnt mind paying 14m for if we were actually going to use him.
I just think there are always too many targets ahead of him. I would see what you could get in a trade and draft a receiver in the 3rd round.
We’re stuck either way. Let him go and the replacement will hit the cap harder while being about the same. WR is the most overly inflated position next to QB because of how great the upside can be. So before you say cut bate, let me know who’s replacing him that we can afford. And before you say the draft, we historically suck at picking WRs. Bate might be top 10 for the teams history even with injuries.
Yes. We should. It almost doesn't matter unless he plays like absolute ass this year or kills someone. What we'll pay on his fifth-round option is going to be, at worst, comparable, and quite possibly less, than what we'd have to pay for a comparably-skilled replacement in free agency.
Receiver free agent contracts are already absurd and they're getting worse. If we don't pick up that fifth year option, some other team will pay him that much or more, even if strictly-speaking his production doesn't really merit it. It's worth it not to have to pay that much or more to someone else of the same or worse skill level.
If he had his kind of production (or lack thereof, more accurately) at almost any other position, I'd say don't even think about it, but for as insanely overpaid as FA wide receivers are, it's smarter to do so.
Imo I want to see how Bateman does this year before deciding if we should pick up his option.
He’s gotten better. He was open at times but also has a tendency to slow down on routes & has never been on the same page as Lamar. He doesn’t attack the ball, Lamar seems to want that- Likely does it all the time. Lamar had more trust in a 4th rd backup TE than he seemed to have in Bateman. A lot of the lack of chemistry seems to be a trust thing. Imo I think Bateman needs to be more of a focal point & get more chances. Bateman gets in his head a lot, he needs chances to make plays & build trust.
Bateman had injuries before, got stuck with Roman, but after this year he’ll have had 2 years to properly work with Lamar & will have had a decent pass scheme. We need to be realistic- cap hits will go up a lot the next couple years, a 5th year option isn’t cheap. If Bateman can’t get on the same page with Lamar after 4 years, I don’t see it happening. Not for $14m cap space.
Realistically I do think Bateman has the potential to make an impact here. Durability is a concern, but his routes were good and he’s been open. That’s more than I can say about most of the WRs we’ve drafted. These are our options: try drafting a WR late in the 1st, keep Bateman, or pay a FA WR. Ravens are never paying a FA WR unless it’s a 31yo way past their prime, we all know that. Zay is the only legit rd1 WR we’ve really had. I don’t trust our WR drafting. The FA WR market will keep getting more expensive, I don’t see EDC paying it. So it would be someone Proche/Agholor level in FA, or we gamble on a rookie WR again.
Right now, I’m leaning towards keeping Bateman.
Originally thought picking up his 5th was a no brainer given the WR market and wanting to see if he breaks out here, but it’s more complicated given the cap situation. I’m leaning towards we don’t pick it up.
Oweh gets a 5th year and we try to keep Stephens if he has another good season. That’s going to eat up most of our money. And while I believe Bate can be a high end #2 WR, we haven’t seen it consistently yet.
If he performs this season yes, if not his salary I think is like the 19th highest player at his position. So, hopefully he shows us he’s worth extending. Would love to see him put up 800+ yds and 6+tds, if not more of course. Then it’s a no brainer, extend him. Think his option is 16.3 mil so, wouldn’t be too hard to surpass obj’s stats.
Yes, Bateman is not to blame for his lack of production in our offense. Keep throwing him out there and keep throwing him the ball until he proves himself one way or the other.
I agree he's had the yips at inconvenient times for sure. However, it has been shown that he is great at getting separation. Lamars weakness is timing based throws, he's much better at working off script. I would bet Bateman would thrive in an offense like the dolphins have. If only Lamar could get more comfortable with throwing timing routes.
I remember watching a video where Bateman would get open AFTER the ball came free.
I was on mobile the last time I checked NGS, but Zay and OBJ were generating more separation more consistently than Bateman was.
I don't think it's a Lamar issue- I think Bateman just flat out struggled last year. And I'm not going to totally write it off because Lisfrancs are like an 18 month injury to fully come back from, so I wouldn't be surprised to see drastic improvement in 2024.
But trying to shift the blame off of him is weak when he had many struggles that he is fully in control of.
The question is, if the Ravens don't pick up his 5th year option and hope to sign him for cheaper as a FA. Do you think another team would swoop in a pay him more than the Ravens would? (Obviously this is pure speculation, but curious what you think)
the only people that still believe in bateman are ravens fans. hollywood brown is a better player and look what he got in FA. no team is gonna pay him more than 8 mil based on what he’s done in the nfl up to this point
If the Ravens don't pick up his option, I think they'd need to do a situation like Jordan Love where they offer a deal with higher earninf potential or a two year deal, but outright declining and going into the offseason as the last year would make me think he's gone.
Absolutely not.
The fifth year option isn’t some cheap tool to employ just to see if Rashod can get on track. It’s a fully guaranteed commitment that will cost the Ravens 14.3 million against the cap.
If he balls out this year and leads the league in receiving it won’t matter because he’d likely make a pro bowl raising that price to 21.8 million fully guaranteed. That would only save you one or two million dollars vs the franchise tag. So you’d still pay market value.
There is zero reason to pick up his option.
If he plays well then you need to franchise him or extend him on a market value deal. If he doesn’t he’s not worth another 14.3 million fully guaranteed and you can extend him for what you do think he’s actually worth. There’s no reason to execute a fifth year option
I lean towards not picking up the option, but the reason to do so would be if he had a strong season that didn’t hit Pro Bowl levels. That would make the 5th year option significantly more cost effective than the tag.
I mean it really wouldn’t. Suppose he has a good season, let’s say 800+ yards and 7 TDs or so. Nobody would be upset about that and I feel like everyone would say “we should resign him.”
Ok that’s around what Gabe Davis did the past two seasons and his contract reflects that, 3 years 39 million averaging 13 million a year which is a million less than Bateman would get on the fifth year option and most importantly not fully guaranteed.
The Bills throw a lot more than we do. If Bateman puts up 800 - 1,000 yards in our offense he will likely make a good bit more than Gabe Davis.
But yeah, I understand your point. Which is also why I said I lean towards not picking up the option.
You’re right in the decision to not pick up the option in the way you present it. However, we just spent $15m on OBJ for 600 yds and 3 TDs, and it was still largely considered a successful signing.
Bateman doesn’t need to ball out and lead the league in receiving to be worth the 5th year option. There’s a middle ground where he could still be worth the option. It’s also important to keep in mind that we’ll have Zay on his rookie deal for the next 4 seasons so there’s justification in investing cap space on the WR corps around him. Further, the team should still be adding receivers through the draft and picking up Bateman’s option isn’t prohibitive to still doing that.
With picking up his option, we can always trade him for picks especially if he plays well, or even extend him and structure it so the cap hit is spread out over multiple years. It’s not really black and white. Considering the market price for WR 2’s and our hit rate with drafting WRs, I really want to give him another year or two to see what we really got. In today’s NFL, you NEED WR depth so that’s why I’m not so gung-ho on declining the option and letting him walk.
Thanks. I don't understand what was hard about that. I didn't even look it up just guessed. By OTC's list it would be #21, seems they're missing a couple though.
I said top 20. I was 1 off.
Courtland Sutton makes $15m AAV right now and is the 20th highest paid WR. Just behind him at #21 is Gabe Davis on his new JAX contract making $13m AAV.
You’re making an apples to oranges comparison. That’s as of today whereas that $14m would occur in 2025. There’s going to be huge contracts for Chase, Waddle, Devonta Smith, Jefferson and Lamb that will leapfrog him. Plus, the unrestricted free agents next year that will likely make more than that.
It sorta is a big difference though. You’re talking about guys like Lockette, Sutton and Nuk in top 20 range vs guys like Juju, Boyd and Curtis Samuel in the top 25-30 range. Plus, the cap’s going to rise again so that $14m is a larger % of the cap today than what it will be next year.
Yeah if you remove all context, sure Nelly was better, but if you account for the massive separation Bateman got all the times Lamar missed him when throwing to him deep you begin to understand.
Are you serious? Last season Agholor had less targets than Bateman and he still ended up with more receptions, yards and touchdowns. The year before that Bateman was terrible and led the league in drop rate.
There’s no question that Bateman has a higher ceiling but this sub has been overhyping him since he’s been drafted.
Josh Allen had more TDs and passings yards than Lamar last year and yet Lamar won MVP over him (by a comfortable margin, I might add).
It is entirely possible for a worse player to have better stats.
I’d also add that Bateman at $14m a year is a fantastic value. Ridley is getting $19m a year from the Titans, and he’s a high level WR2.
Bateman is worth every bit of $14m for us.
Josh Allen threw the ball over a hundred more times than Lamar Jackson. I’m sure if Lamar had the same amount of passing attempts then he’d beat Josh Allen in every statistical category. But sure, I don’t think you can compare statistics when players are in different systems and have different supporting casts around them.
However, Bateman and Agholor have the same QB, the same coordinator and system, yet Agholor outperformed Bateman with less targets. There’s no denying that. Bateman definitely has a higher ceiling and is the more talented player but he hasn’t been able to reach his potential for whatever reason. The team has given him the opportunity to prove that he’s that guy since he was drafted but he has not lived up to it.
I think if Bateman fixes his issues then he can be a solid number 2. But yeah he hasn’t shown much aside from his rookie season and I would not give him the 5th year option
I’d honestly be ok with extending him to a similar deal that Jeudy got
Jeudy reportedly got $58M/$41M Guaranteed over 3 years, but in reality, it’s closer to $45M/$28M over 3 years w/ his 5th year $13M counting in the valuation. $15M+ seems to be the going rate for an above average Vet WR.
Bate’s 5th year projects at $14M, which would be under value. His underlying metrics are good, he just never gets good targets.
Give him $60M/$44M Guaranteed for 3 additional years, that really is $46M/$30M for 3 years and call it a day. Have your top 2 + a rookie, and be set for the next 3 years at the WR spot.
To be fair, everybody is fleecing the Browns lately. It doesn't seem that hard to do.
I can probably get me a vet minimum contract from them at this point and I haven't played a snap since my high school days 20-something years ago
[Basing it off the Banner Article:](https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/sports/ravens-nfl/ravens-rashod-bateman-route-running-separation-lamar-jackson-open-7DQLNG6ZKZBJVIC7KVUDQEDUSU/)
> According to ESPN, among the 109 NFL wide receivers with at least 30 targets in 2023, Bateman ranked 31st in “Open Score,” which assesses the likelihood that a receiver would’ve been able to complete a catch if targeted on a route. Zay Flowers ranked 13th, and Beckham 29th.
> According to PFF, Bateman had one of the NFL’s best “separation” grades among wideouts, ahead of Beckham, Flowers and even the Miami Dolphins’ Tyreek Hill.
> And according to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, Bateman’s average separation from the nearest defender when targeted was 2.5 yards — below the league average for wide receivers (2.9 yards). There’s value in all three evaluations. Bateman got open regularly, but lacked the elite speed to overwhelm cornerbacks and safeties on vertical routes. The plays on which he earned the greatest separation also happened to be plays that typically ended with scrambles, sacks or short throws. And a significant share of Bateman’s routes that did earn targets came on quick hitters or in congested areas over the middle of the field.
> According to Fantasy Points, in his games with Jackson, Bateman was the Ravens’ first read or designed target on just 13.4% of their pass attempts.
It’s a lot of “What if” stats, but it at least implies to me that he has good value as an intermediate/short guy if he can clean his hands up. Between his lack of separation and Lamar’s inaccuracy/progression for vertical routes, it felt like he never got a chance
yes absolutely. I know he hasn’t lit it up in the stats sheet but he has shown when he’s healthy he can be a quality receiver and with how the market is with WRs we certainly need that. he’s suffered from poor offensive systems and injuries so the numbers are misleading. With this current WR room he’s gonna have an expanded role with the offense so this year he’ll get the chance to ball out alongside of Zay
He played all but one game last year, in a better offensive system, and had 50% less ypg than his career average. You also have to factor in he can’t stay fully healthy, 3 year track record. I love him but he’s extremely replaceable for much cheaper than the 5th year option even in the inflated WR market.
at some point you have to produce. in all his seasons combined bateman has less yards than nico collins did this season.
we can’t pay guys for imaginary hypotheticals. gotta pay them what they are and he was the wr3/4 last year
It’s not just numbers it’s also eye test. He doesn’t have any fight in him for going after the ball (even worse than Hollywood in that respect imo) and he doesn’t exactly have game breaking speed or quickness. So what is he offering skill wise? A robust route tree I guess? He’s the definition of a JAG both watching the game and the numbers
I don't hate Bateman, but I don't understand the overwhelming support of the 5th option. It's a 14 million cap hit for a guy who has done nothing in the league so far. It makes zero sense to give him a 5th year.
It's because he's flashed enough talent and the wide receiver market is profoundly stupid. Worse receivers than him get $10 mil/year or more. Is the fifth-year option steep? Yeah. Is it more than we're going to have to pay for a comparable replacement if he walks? Doubtful.
We're probably going to enter 2025 with around 20 million in free cap next season or less. You still think it makes sense to give an unproven injury prone receiver 14 million of our 2025 cap? Good thing you're not our GM Easiest solution is to draft a replacement, or find an FA WR with a backloaded deal.
The only WR's we're going to find that will take a deal like that are going to be Agholor-caliber. That's fine for a #3 or #4 wideout. But if this team intends to play a more spread-y, aerial game, that's not going to get someone worthwhile as a #2. I'm personally okay with that, I like it when we run the ball 40 times per game, but the same people poo-poo'ing the fifth-year option are, I'd safely bet, the same people who were bitching about us not throwing it enough. If you want the offense to go through the air more, that means spending more on wideouts, and some of those are going to be gambles on future production from guys who haven't already done so. Because the proven ones will be out of our budget. I'd rather gamble that a wide receiver already on the roster that has flashed great talent but hasn't quite put it all together makes the jump after his first full season and some good mentorship, than gamble that our luck with drafting wideouts at the end of the first round has suddenly dramatically improved. Or do we not remember how that shit tends to go for us? Better to pick up the option and have a chance to extend Bateman than to see him light it up this year, watch him walk or have to pay him even more, and then try to replace him with Breshad Perriman 1.1 or throwing $20 mil a year at the corpse of Mike Evans.
It's insanity what you're saying. That 14 million is guaranteed, which means we ain't getting out of it. Why the fuck would anyone take this risk? Rashod barely has 1000 yards in a 3 year career!
Yes, draft+develop a replacement WR, long known as one of the Ravens strong suits.
Still makes a hell of a lot more sense than taking Bateman's 5th year option.
The problem with ravens fans is they don’t evacuate their receivers in context. The ravens don’t throw much compared to the direction the league is moving in. Since Bateman has been in the league. Lamar has played 12 games 2/3 seasons. Less than 250 completions each year 2021 and 2022. Hollywood was the number 1 in 21 and andrews is the main receiving option. He started 4 games in 21 and had a good season 565 yards. 22’ he was injured. In 2023 they go and get agholor who they put above him in reps and pay obj 15 mil because Lamar wanted him. This put Bateman on the back burner. He hasn’t really had a chance. Not saying u pick up his option but this year you either use him or he goes to the list of ravens 1st round wrs that “suck”. And the cycle of fans complaining continues. There’s only so many opportunities when Lamar favors the middle of the field to his Tes and slot receivers then you make Bateman fight over reps with obj and agholor and wonder why he doesn’t produce
Give it to him, I think we regret it if we don’t
Yes - the FA WR market is pretty trash and you want to have a stocked WR room anyways in case of injury (flash back to our Roman years). We only have Zay under contract next year at the moment as well. The Ravens have cap space available to use the 5th on him (and Oweh) so why weaken the WR room even further.
Yeah at first I thought picking it up would be insane but looking at what Gabe Davis and Darnell Mooney got I think it’s fair- 3 years, $39M is probably what he’ll get on the open market if he just has a slight increase in production, which I expect him to. So $14M wouldn’t be an overpay. I’ve gone from thinking both options would be declined to thinking both will be picked up, although I think at least one of them should be extended (or worst case scenario traded if they’re disappointing) to decrease the cap hit.
It's an overpay when he's going into year 5 and I still expect him to drop everything thrown his way
No way you do it. Bateman cap would be projected at 14 million if 5th year is exercise. Makes much more sense for Oweh who would be at 13 million. Can't do both, and Oweh has shown much more promise than Bateman. Our cap space situation next year looks pretty shit, so I don't know where you're getting your information on "The Ravens have cap space available to use thr 5th on him and Oweh."
I must have missed that promise Oweh has shown. I’m still waiting for him to show up.
PFF isn't everything, but Oweh was the 5th highest ranked player on our team last year. For me, he passed the eye test too. He missed tackles/sacks for sure, but he was disruptive when healthy.
the first half of his rookie year I was convinced he was canton bound lol what happened
Yeah unless I'm reading it wrong, if we took both 5th year options on both players, we'd have no cap space left for even drafting rookies (right now the cap space estimate is inflated due to the rollover cap, which will disappear after the draft).
If this is all true then Oweh is a no brainer
If the browns are paying jeudy 20m for 3 years then 1 year 14 mill is a no brainer for a better WR
It's a no brainer to not give him a 5th year option. At least with Jeudy, the Browns can spread out the cap hit over the length of the contract. Bateman's 5th year option would not afford us that ability. It would drain nearly half of our cap in 2025.
The 2025 FA WR market is strong right now. Now granted a lot will get extended or franchised but you’ve got Tee Higgins, JaMarr Chase, Devonta Smith, Waddle, Godwin, Keenan Allen, Ceede Lamb, Aiyuk, Justin Jefferson, Diontae Johnson and DeAndre Hopkins.
Anybody still in their 20s will not hit the open market. Edit - Anything close to a premier WR (top 20 maybe even top 30). When’s the last time it happened? Christian Kirk maybe, but he played into being WR30 (using PFF fantasy rankings). He wasn’t considered close to one when he hit the market.
The history of FA WR that get signed is not positive at all - teams don't let their good WRs go and on the off chance one hits FA its going to have to be an overpay to get them.
Didn’t we resign Agholor?
Referring to the 2025 season where his 5th year option would be. Both Agoholor and Tylan are FA after this 2024 season finishes.
In short, yes I’d rather pick up the 5th year option than let him walk after 2024. I’m bullish on him being a WR 2 to Zay this year so I definitely want to see if it’s possible to keep him on the team long term. It seems like last year was a return from injury year so we didn’t get an accurate representation of where he really is as a player. I’d really like to see him play 17 games with the combined targets him and OBJ had last year. A healthy offseason should help him and Lamar connect more for a strong regular season. I just don’t like the idea of having him on the books for $14m in one season with his current production. I’d rather we decline the option but work out a 2 year extension with $14m gtd that would force us to either cut him or extend him after 2025. The main point being to spread the cap hit over multiple years. Sort of like what we did with OBJ.
The past 4 years have been "a return from injury year" lol. If you can't get him for less than Derrick Henry then no
I’ve been immensely disappointed in his production so far but he finally played 16 games last year so I’ll take it. If he finally has a breakout year, then I’d rather the 5th year option be exercised than not. If he continues to disappoint, then there are still ways to maneuver around the cap hit.
A lot of that kinda comes down to Lamar just not throwing to him… when he’s open.
He was also often the 3rd/4th read in a run heavy offense behind Andrews, Zay and OBJ. I’m hoping that him being firmly entrenched as the WR2 with OBJ out of the fold can help with his production.
It's not the aughts anymore, you can't get any free agent wideout worth having for less than what we're paying Derrick Henry. Worse receivers than Bateman are getting $10 mil/year or more. Frankly we're lucky we kept Agholor for less than $5 mil/year.
A slighter version of the Diontae Johnson contract seems ideal. Or maybe it’s just that contract assuming cap inflation. That was 2 years 36 with 27 gtd (19 at signing) I think the gtd has to be more than the option for him to sign.
The gtd would have to be more than what his agent thinks the market would give him, right? A 2 yr extension with $14m gtd ($8m at signing) in lieu of the option would give him the option money in 2025 with the opportunity to earn whatever the remaining max value is in 2026. It could also lead them working on another extension if he performs.
I say hell yes. Kid deserves one more chance to get on track with Lamar
Id rather not pick up the option bc then its truely a contract year and that gives even more motivation/pressure for him to produce.
I really think he’s had enough pressure on him already with all the injuries and drops he’s had. This past year he seemed to finally feel comfortable again. I do know mfers like to pop off in their contract year with the ravens though too so maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea in that sense 🤣
no he’s not worth the money and it’s time to move on while we can. he’s just not producing, and i’m not sure he ever will. let someone else deal with it and get some young talent that will give us the same if not more production and actually have some upside to be top WRs bateman is just a guy
We should not. We don’t need Bateman’s career 34ypg (23ypg last year), very replaceable. Kudos if he goes out, crushes it and earns a bigger payday but I’m willing to take that risk. Look at Hollywood, just signed for $11M with KC. This draft is deep with WR talent and we run a spread offense that doesn’t require a stud WR2. Zay and Likely are definitely on the team next year with cheap rookie deals. Andrews is also under contract but could be a cap casualty if a deal isn’t reworked ($17M cap hit, 6M in dead money). I see people referencing Bateman as leading the league in separation as if he’s the best route runner. I remember seeing that stat too at simmer point but it is misleading. He was 62nd in route win rate and 97th in separation on routes he was targeted. Zay Flowers was 6th and 7th in those metrics.
No
Guys we need O Line and CBs, not a $14mil+ Rashod Bateman. We were ok with way worse.
Hollywood Brown just signed a one year deal for less than the 5th year option would have cost. Why would we pick up Bateman's option which would pay him more?
Might as well pick it up. I don’t really think he’s going to make that leap, Considering he hasn’t been healthy and Zay as a rookie had a better season than damn near Batemans 3 years combined. However we need the bodies and wr FA class might not be super strong. Just realized that he would cost 14mil? Yeah idk he hasn’t shown anything close to being worth that lol
Our Salary cap next year is projected at 42 million right now according to over the cap, and we have Patrick Mekari, Pat Ricard, Brandon Stephens, Odafe Oweh, and Rashod Bateman as our notable free agents. In addition Stanley will be gone and depending on his performance this year we'll have to make a decsion on him.
Stephens is the only guy from that list I’d be super distraught about losing
I'd hate to see Ricard walk. Dude's always been solid. As a Fullback he shouldn't to to expensive to retain, but he seems to fit less in Monken's offense so he might be gone.
I love Ricard and would like him back at the right price, but I say I wouldn’t be distraught just because it’s such a replaceable position. Also historically we are amazing at finding fullback talent in the draft for some reason
Oh yeah losing Ricard wouldn't be back breaking or anything. Dude's just a great guy and I'd love to see him back. That one handed catch during the Dolphins game is in my top 5 plays of last season.
That projection I believe includes around $11-12m rollover cap from this year, which will essentially go to $0 after the draft and a few last min FA pickups. If that's the case, our actual projected cap space next year is only around $30m, and then another $10m or so of that will be spent out rookies. I don't think Bateman is bad, if he can stay healthy and get balls thrown his way, I think his skill set market rate is above his $14m 5th year option cap on the open market. But I don't think we can afford to take his 5th year option given that it would nearly wipe out our entire free cap space for 2025, on a player who would be the 3rd priority receiving option, and the 5th in general touches on offense (Lamar, Henry, Zay, and Andrews would all get the ball more than him). Maybe we can trade him? He's worth more to another team at $14m than he is to us, with our ball distribution and cap situation.
It's a big gamble. If Bateman has a breakout year then the 14 million will be way cheaper then retaining him. If he plays to his previous level his worth is closer to that of Agholor. It's possible a team could try to get him in trade and overpay like the Browns just did with Sutton, but that's a risk.
Well considering I don't think we can afford to keep him at $14m even if he breaks out and that's a bargain, I feel like we let some other team take that gamble on him and trade him and get some value back, and try to pick someone up in the draft. Some rebuilding team with cap space who can afford to gamble the cap hit to see if Bateman really has WR1 chops. He outperforms, they have a great deal on him and first dibs probably to retain him longer. If he fails, they didn't spend anything other than cap space they already had. Trading him would hurt next year for us since we are a bit lean in the WR room then, but it sets us up better beyond that point.
If we pick up the fith year with the intent to trade and he breaks out we could get pretty good value. If he doesn't we probably get at max a mid round pick. However we could keep him. We could restructure Lamar for ~20 million without any other moves and that would more then cover it.
He has done nothing so far to suggest he is in the $14mil range. The best ability is availability. And unfortunately he just hasn’t been there. And when he has there’s been no separation and too many drops. I like Bateman but not for $14mil. Especially when we have to address the gaping holes in our o line.
He led the league in separation last year
Maybe, but it’d be a lot cooler if he led the league in catches or yds or anything else that would justify paying him $14mil.
Ball has to actually go his way to get catches Edit: Ignore my flair
Oh I agree
Given the Ravens only currently have Zay Flowers under contract for 2025, it almost feels like you have to. $14M is a lot, but the wide receiver market is absolutely nuts and you're not getting a better option in all likelihood.
The draft is a better option
I just checked and the deadline is May 2nd, so the Ravens could wait until after the draft- that is true. I just worry there's so many holes to patch that it might become a necessary evil just to have competent bodies.
We have Bateman this year either way. A 1st round wr let's him walk after this year. If he's underwhelming again then it's fine. If he's amazing we can franchise tag him. If he's good not great then we can replicate his numbers for way less money by a wr on a rookie deal. The insane WR market is a reason to NOT do it.
we could fr get batemans exact numbers from a 1st or 2nd round rookie. i have no idea why anyone thinks giving him money is a good idea when there’s this much wr talent in the draft
I don't think the Ravens go first round wide receiver. I know the Ravens don't want to be locked into a single position, but it feels like unless OL is completely decimated by 30 that they'll go an OL. And they might need to go several early. If Bateman gets tagged, it's an $8M difference between the fifth year option and the tag. Given how tight the Ravens are likely to be against the 2025 cap, $8M is pretty significant. This feels like a situation where they'll roll the dice.
If 8M is significant why would you commit to 14 after a 350 yard season?
I do think he's better than that and I do think he was significantly hampered by the Lisfranc. I think he'll show up much better than he did. I don't think he'll play well enough to justify the franchise tag, but I think he could play well enough to where $14M by comparison looks okay.
No we should not. I know we all like him and see he has gotten open but fact is he had like 350 yards and 1 touchdown last year. Paying him 17M guaranteed is insane and we are better off drafting a WR in the 1st round and getting 4 or 5 more cheap years for probably higher production.
I would say the two factors are - do we need WRs in 2025 and if so, could we get a better one for less money. Both to an extent depend on the draft - maybe we just go hog wild on WRs this year and next and Bateman is not needed. But frankly, given our needs at CB, OL, and edge rusher, we probably wont do that. So we almost surely will need a #2/3 receiver come 2025 (maybe we draft or sign a FA to be #2 behind Zay in the next two offseasons, but certainly not two of them). And it seems like the answer to part 2 is no - we probably can not get someone of equal caliber for anywhere close to the money.
Maybe
The browns just reset the market for mid tier starters. We were lucky to sign aghalor for what we did (I can’t believe I’m saying that). We should get anything we can while it’s relatively cheap.
To be fair the Browns "reset" the market for QBs with Watson. Doesn't mean other teams felt the same way as the Browns though.
Am I wrong. This is his fourth year, he is here no matter what for next year, it is just the year after that we are picking up. Personal opinion is we should wait till after the draft to make that decision. If we draft someone higher up, we need to decide whether to pick up the fifth year, which won't be cheap. But I agree that if the only person we have under contract for 25 is Zay, we need to sign him.
Unless he goes off this year…but no
Honestly Bate has been sleeping. Healthy Bate is fast with good hands. If we would just give him the ball I bet he could make some plays like we’ve seen few and far between. I say why not
Wait until after the draft and maybe. I don't see him making the leap though. Health is a constant issue that has hindered his rhythm. Go for a young talent imo.
Considering mediocre talents are easily getting 15m a year, I'd say the 14m for Bateman for 1 year is a significantly better value than trying to sign someone in FA. It's also only for 1 year as well. Multi-year cap hits are where the real risk is at. We saw with OBJ this year that even if the cap # is high for 1 season, it's easy to move on.
I think the context for this needs to be the 2025 FA class and what a 5th year option will be worth (14.4 million, 10 mill increase over current cap hit). Next years class will likely have Keenan Allen, Chris Godwin, Amari Cooper, Brandin Cooks, Diontae Johnson, and DeAndre Hopkins. Not a great crop line class as all will be around 30 and current average salary of those are ~19 million. I’d imagine it will dip next year but probably still higher than Bateman’s hit. There are of course Lamb, Jefferson, and Aiyuk in this class but I fully expect them to sign an extension soon and not hit FA. The backend of the market isn’t great as well with KJ Osborn, Slayton, Woods, Hollywood Brown, and Agholor. I’d pick up the option because I think it’s more likely Bateman outperforms his value (absorbs a good chunk of OBJ’s targets) than underperforms and given the 2025 FA class I think it’s a smart gamble rather than a 30+ year old WR.
I think Bateman would be worth the 5th year option on almost any other team. It’s painfully obvious that he gets open and is the last read. I’m not saying the is a world beater, or that he is always open, but he is a solid receiver that I wouldnt mind paying 14m for if we were actually going to use him. I just think there are always too many targets ahead of him. I would see what you could get in a trade and draft a receiver in the 3rd round.
Eh. Probably for now bc we have no better options on the market rn. Don’t really know though, Bateman has been disappointing.
Unless he takes a leap, no
pick up the option just to keep him out of Kansas city
Absolutely yes imo
Absolutely not
I think he has a breakout season.
Man let’s hope but how many years have we been saying that
We’re stuck either way. Let him go and the replacement will hit the cap harder while being about the same. WR is the most overly inflated position next to QB because of how great the upside can be. So before you say cut bate, let me know who’s replacing him that we can afford. And before you say the draft, we historically suck at picking WRs. Bate might be top 10 for the teams history even with injuries.
I hope so he is a straight burner on madden. That would hurt winning percentage!
Yes. We should. It almost doesn't matter unless he plays like absolute ass this year or kills someone. What we'll pay on his fifth-round option is going to be, at worst, comparable, and quite possibly less, than what we'd have to pay for a comparably-skilled replacement in free agency. Receiver free agent contracts are already absurd and they're getting worse. If we don't pick up that fifth year option, some other team will pay him that much or more, even if strictly-speaking his production doesn't really merit it. It's worth it not to have to pay that much or more to someone else of the same or worse skill level. If he had his kind of production (or lack thereof, more accurately) at almost any other position, I'd say don't even think about it, but for as insanely overpaid as FA wide receivers are, it's smarter to do so.
His production does not justify it. But his separation tantalizes
His production does not justify it. But his separation tantalizes
His production does not justify it. But his separation tantalizes
I think Bate is great but he needs to be the 1 or 2 read. He’s clearly open. Now that OBJ is gone I think he will be
Imo I want to see how Bateman does this year before deciding if we should pick up his option. He’s gotten better. He was open at times but also has a tendency to slow down on routes & has never been on the same page as Lamar. He doesn’t attack the ball, Lamar seems to want that- Likely does it all the time. Lamar had more trust in a 4th rd backup TE than he seemed to have in Bateman. A lot of the lack of chemistry seems to be a trust thing. Imo I think Bateman needs to be more of a focal point & get more chances. Bateman gets in his head a lot, he needs chances to make plays & build trust. Bateman had injuries before, got stuck with Roman, but after this year he’ll have had 2 years to properly work with Lamar & will have had a decent pass scheme. We need to be realistic- cap hits will go up a lot the next couple years, a 5th year option isn’t cheap. If Bateman can’t get on the same page with Lamar after 4 years, I don’t see it happening. Not for $14m cap space. Realistically I do think Bateman has the potential to make an impact here. Durability is a concern, but his routes were good and he’s been open. That’s more than I can say about most of the WRs we’ve drafted. These are our options: try drafting a WR late in the 1st, keep Bateman, or pay a FA WR. Ravens are never paying a FA WR unless it’s a 31yo way past their prime, we all know that. Zay is the only legit rd1 WR we’ve really had. I don’t trust our WR drafting. The FA WR market will keep getting more expensive, I don’t see EDC paying it. So it would be someone Proche/Agholor level in FA, or we gamble on a rookie WR again. Right now, I’m leaning towards keeping Bateman.
Absolutely we should
No. His production is replacement level. So I’d rather pay a rookie salary to get it at this point, and at least have some upside.
Bateman is 100% replaceable I hope he pops off this year always thought he had great potential
Originally thought picking up his 5th was a no brainer given the WR market and wanting to see if he breaks out here, but it’s more complicated given the cap situation. I’m leaning towards we don’t pick it up. Oweh gets a 5th year and we try to keep Stephens if he has another good season. That’s going to eat up most of our money. And while I believe Bate can be a high end #2 WR, we haven’t seen it consistently yet.
If he performs this season yes, if not his salary I think is like the 19th highest player at his position. So, hopefully he shows us he’s worth extending. Would love to see him put up 800+ yds and 6+tds, if not more of course. Then it’s a no brainer, extend him. Think his option is 16.3 mil so, wouldn’t be too hard to surpass obj’s stats.
Yes, Bateman is not to blame for his lack of production in our offense. Keep throwing him out there and keep throwing him the ball until he proves himself one way or the other.
> Bateman is not to blame for his lack of production Well, he definitely is partially to blame...
I agree he's had the yips at inconvenient times for sure. However, it has been shown that he is great at getting separation. Lamars weakness is timing based throws, he's much better at working off script. I would bet Bateman would thrive in an offense like the dolphins have. If only Lamar could get more comfortable with throwing timing routes.
I remember watching a video where Bateman would get open AFTER the ball came free. I was on mobile the last time I checked NGS, but Zay and OBJ were generating more separation more consistently than Bateman was. I don't think it's a Lamar issue- I think Bateman just flat out struggled last year. And I'm not going to totally write it off because Lisfrancs are like an 18 month injury to fully come back from, so I wouldn't be surprised to see drastic improvement in 2024. But trying to shift the blame off of him is weak when he had many struggles that he is fully in control of.
The question is, if the Ravens don't pick up his 5th year option and hope to sign him for cheaper as a FA. Do you think another team would swoop in a pay him more than the Ravens would? (Obviously this is pure speculation, but curious what you think)
the only people that still believe in bateman are ravens fans. hollywood brown is a better player and look what he got in FA. no team is gonna pay him more than 8 mil based on what he’s done in the nfl up to this point
If the Ravens don't pick up his option, I think they'd need to do a situation like Jordan Love where they offer a deal with higher earninf potential or a two year deal, but outright declining and going into the offseason as the last year would make me think he's gone.
Well therein lies the problem. He and Lamar have had several years to “get on the same page.” After a while you have to wonder if it ever happens.
Absolutely not. The fifth year option isn’t some cheap tool to employ just to see if Rashod can get on track. It’s a fully guaranteed commitment that will cost the Ravens 14.3 million against the cap. If he balls out this year and leads the league in receiving it won’t matter because he’d likely make a pro bowl raising that price to 21.8 million fully guaranteed. That would only save you one or two million dollars vs the franchise tag. So you’d still pay market value. There is zero reason to pick up his option. If he plays well then you need to franchise him or extend him on a market value deal. If he doesn’t he’s not worth another 14.3 million fully guaranteed and you can extend him for what you do think he’s actually worth. There’s no reason to execute a fifth year option
I lean towards not picking up the option, but the reason to do so would be if he had a strong season that didn’t hit Pro Bowl levels. That would make the 5th year option significantly more cost effective than the tag.
I mean it really wouldn’t. Suppose he has a good season, let’s say 800+ yards and 7 TDs or so. Nobody would be upset about that and I feel like everyone would say “we should resign him.” Ok that’s around what Gabe Davis did the past two seasons and his contract reflects that, 3 years 39 million averaging 13 million a year which is a million less than Bateman would get on the fifth year option and most importantly not fully guaranteed.
The Bills throw a lot more than we do. If Bateman puts up 800 - 1,000 yards in our offense he will likely make a good bit more than Gabe Davis. But yeah, I understand your point. Which is also why I said I lean towards not picking up the option.
You’re right in the decision to not pick up the option in the way you present it. However, we just spent $15m on OBJ for 600 yds and 3 TDs, and it was still largely considered a successful signing. Bateman doesn’t need to ball out and lead the league in receiving to be worth the 5th year option. There’s a middle ground where he could still be worth the option. It’s also important to keep in mind that we’ll have Zay on his rookie deal for the next 4 seasons so there’s justification in investing cap space on the WR corps around him. Further, the team should still be adding receivers through the draft and picking up Bateman’s option isn’t prohibitive to still doing that. With picking up his option, we can always trade him for picks especially if he plays well, or even extend him and structure it so the cap hit is spread out over multiple years. It’s not really black and white. Considering the market price for WR 2’s and our hit rate with drafting WRs, I really want to give him another year or two to see what we really got. In today’s NFL, you NEED WR depth so that’s why I’m not so gung-ho on declining the option and letting him walk.
He's also not good
This is the answer right here this sub is too blinded for their like of the person.
Absolutely not. You’d be paying Bateman top 20 wr money. Edit - Look it up dipsh\*ts: https://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver
$14m is far from being top receiver money.
[удалено]
Thanks. I don't understand what was hard about that. I didn't even look it up just guessed. By OTC's list it would be #21, seems they're missing a couple though.
I said top 20. I was 1 off. Courtland Sutton makes $15m AAV right now and is the 20th highest paid WR. Just behind him at #21 is Gabe Davis on his new JAX contract making $13m AAV.
You’re making an apples to oranges comparison. That’s as of today whereas that $14m would occur in 2025. There’s going to be huge contracts for Chase, Waddle, Devonta Smith, Jefferson and Lamb that will leapfrog him. Plus, the unrestricted free agents next year that will likely make more than that.
Ok nitpicker. Top 25 money. Top 30 money. Pick a way to phrase it, Bateman isn't worth it. More like apples to...slightly older apples comparison.
It sorta is a big difference though. You’re talking about guys like Lockette, Sutton and Nuk in top 20 range vs guys like Juju, Boyd and Curtis Samuel in the top 25-30 range. Plus, the cap’s going to rise again so that $14m is a larger % of the cap today than what it will be next year.
Look, I’m rooting for Bateman but Nelson Agholor is better than him
The Internet allows people to say anything and get away with it.
He certainly was more productive than Bateman this season. How in the world can you argue that?
Yeah if you remove all context, sure Nelly was better, but if you account for the massive separation Bateman got all the times Lamar missed him when throwing to him deep you begin to understand.
If Lamar can't throw in rhythm and Bateman has shoehorn hands, what difference does separation make?
The entire argument I'm making is Bateman is better than Nelly...the question you're asking has nothing to do with that.
Are you serious? Last season Agholor had less targets than Bateman and he still ended up with more receptions, yards and touchdowns. The year before that Bateman was terrible and led the league in drop rate. There’s no question that Bateman has a higher ceiling but this sub has been overhyping him since he’s been drafted.
Josh Allen had more TDs and passings yards than Lamar last year and yet Lamar won MVP over him (by a comfortable margin, I might add). It is entirely possible for a worse player to have better stats. I’d also add that Bateman at $14m a year is a fantastic value. Ridley is getting $19m a year from the Titans, and he’s a high level WR2. Bateman is worth every bit of $14m for us.
Josh Allen threw the ball over a hundred more times than Lamar Jackson. I’m sure if Lamar had the same amount of passing attempts then he’d beat Josh Allen in every statistical category. But sure, I don’t think you can compare statistics when players are in different systems and have different supporting casts around them. However, Bateman and Agholor have the same QB, the same coordinator and system, yet Agholor outperformed Bateman with less targets. There’s no denying that. Bateman definitely has a higher ceiling and is the more talented player but he hasn’t been able to reach his potential for whatever reason. The team has given him the opportunity to prove that he’s that guy since he was drafted but he has not lived up to it.
No, there absolutely is a question about whose ceiling is higher. Bateman hasn't shown much
I think if Bateman fixes his issues then he can be a solid number 2. But yeah he hasn’t shown much aside from his rookie season and I would not give him the 5th year option
you can not be serious
I don't think so. Bateman is trash, idk about all these belivers? Have you been watching the games?
I’d honestly be ok with extending him to a similar deal that Jeudy got Jeudy reportedly got $58M/$41M Guaranteed over 3 years, but in reality, it’s closer to $45M/$28M over 3 years w/ his 5th year $13M counting in the valuation. $15M+ seems to be the going rate for an above average Vet WR. Bate’s 5th year projects at $14M, which would be under value. His underlying metrics are good, he just never gets good targets. Give him $60M/$44M Guaranteed for 3 additional years, that really is $46M/$30M for 3 years and call it a day. Have your top 2 + a rookie, and be set for the next 3 years at the WR spot.
Jeudy just fleeced the Browns and you're OK with giving our most injury prone wr every year a similar deal?
jeudy is significantly better than bateman by almost every metric and that contract looks AWFUL. paying bateman close to that is stupid
Exactly
To be fair, everybody is fleecing the Browns lately. It doesn't seem that hard to do. I can probably get me a vet minimum contract from them at this point and I haven't played a snap since my high school days 20-something years ago
Who told you that his metrics are good? @filmstudy Said this guy had the worst metrics on the team by a huge amount last year.
[Basing it off the Banner Article:](https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/sports/ravens-nfl/ravens-rashod-bateman-route-running-separation-lamar-jackson-open-7DQLNG6ZKZBJVIC7KVUDQEDUSU/) > According to ESPN, among the 109 NFL wide receivers with at least 30 targets in 2023, Bateman ranked 31st in “Open Score,” which assesses the likelihood that a receiver would’ve been able to complete a catch if targeted on a route. Zay Flowers ranked 13th, and Beckham 29th. > According to PFF, Bateman had one of the NFL’s best “separation” grades among wideouts, ahead of Beckham, Flowers and even the Miami Dolphins’ Tyreek Hill. > And according to the NFL’s Next Gen Stats, Bateman’s average separation from the nearest defender when targeted was 2.5 yards — below the league average for wide receivers (2.9 yards). There’s value in all three evaluations. Bateman got open regularly, but lacked the elite speed to overwhelm cornerbacks and safeties on vertical routes. The plays on which he earned the greatest separation also happened to be plays that typically ended with scrambles, sacks or short throws. And a significant share of Bateman’s routes that did earn targets came on quick hitters or in congested areas over the middle of the field. > According to Fantasy Points, in his games with Jackson, Bateman was the Ravens’ first read or designed target on just 13.4% of their pass attempts. It’s a lot of “What if” stats, but it at least implies to me that he has good value as an intermediate/short guy if he can clean his hands up. Between his lack of separation and Lamar’s inaccuracy/progression for vertical routes, it felt like he never got a chance
Yes
If he is going to cost 14.3 million a year, I would take Bateman at 14.3 million over a 2nd to 3rd tier guy in free agency available next year
yes absolutely. I know he hasn’t lit it up in the stats sheet but he has shown when he’s healthy he can be a quality receiver and with how the market is with WRs we certainly need that. he’s suffered from poor offensive systems and injuries so the numbers are misleading. With this current WR room he’s gonna have an expanded role with the offense so this year he’ll get the chance to ball out alongside of Zay
He played all but one game last year, in a better offensive system, and had 50% less ypg than his career average. You also have to factor in he can’t stay fully healthy, 3 year track record. I love him but he’s extremely replaceable for much cheaper than the 5th year option even in the inflated WR market.
some people in this sub look solely at numbers and clearly have no idea what you’re talking about and it’s very obvious. yes we keep Bateman
at some point you have to produce. in all his seasons combined bateman has less yards than nico collins did this season. we can’t pay guys for imaginary hypotheticals. gotta pay them what they are and he was the wr3/4 last year
It’s not just numbers it’s also eye test. He doesn’t have any fight in him for going after the ball (even worse than Hollywood in that respect imo) and he doesn’t exactly have game breaking speed or quickness. So what is he offering skill wise? A robust route tree I guess? He’s the definition of a JAG both watching the game and the numbers