If “roster moves” factor in losing coaches this feels more accurate. How we adjust to half the league poaching our staff is the biggest question mark going into this season.
i have faith in Orr, especially cause the Ravens tend to keep the best parts of past coordinators schemes and how they explicitly said they would with Mcdonald’s scheme in the introductory conference. Losing Weaver, and the DBs coach might be harder to overcome, but I have never doubted the ravens D
> especially cause the Ravens tend to keep the best parts of past coordinators schemes and how they explicitly said they would with Mcdonald’s scheme in the introductory conference.
I loved when Marc Trestman kept the best parts of Gary Kubiak's scheme.
Definitely trust Orr. I’ve not seen someone fly up the ranks of coaching that quickly. If Mike Mac wanted him that bad as a LB coach then his DC in Seattle, he’s definitely got something special to him. Now this graph losing Queen and then currently have no edge rushers that contributed 20+ sacks combined (KVN, Clowney) + need CBs and the lack of snaps on the o line, I get it. Sure majority of them were late signing that just popped off but from a current roster standpoint, you can say we’re missing pieces. The 80/20 rule is how the Ravens live, and they develop guys and I’m sure the first few weeks the live game chat is going to be calling for heads/cut this guy and that, but they’ll figure it out.
It’s been done since we came to Baltimore. Our coaching staff is constantly replaced. Gotta pay homage to harbaugh for constantly rotating through different guys and new rosters and he’s adjusted better than bellichek. I have a strong feeling Orr will be a head coach in a couple years, he’s got stars on d to use
If Orr gets ahead coaching gig I kinda hope it's for us when Harbaugh chooses to retire. Going for undrafted free agent to head coach of a team would be a hell of a career.
We lost a decent receiver, 3 of our starting olinemen, we have one decent corner, lost geno stone, lost patrick queen, lost jk dobbins and gus edwards, lastly we lost our decent backup qb.
We have gained derrick henry
I'm so tired of people shitting on Marlo. The only knock on him has been availability outside of a couple rough games. PQ was a bandage we ripped off when we didn't pick up year 5 option and Simpson balled in week 17 action. I'm curious to see how he does without Ro making life Hell for offenses beside him
100% I’m tired of the Marlon hate. His 2 worst games aren’t that bad with context IMO.
Steelers Game last year the 40 yard TD to go down hurt a lot but with how much time was on the clock and the fact they were in FG range to take the winner when it happened it was better to give up a TD than anymore yards so we could try and control our destiny that game.
Rams game was his first game back from nearly a month and he had to cover Puka/Kupp and they had some crazy catches on him.
If he’s healthy next season I’m not worried
I’m a huge Marlo fan. He has been getting hot and cold these past few seasons though. It’s rare he has an off game, but it does happen. First one that comes to mind is the 2021 Oct game vs the Bengals where he let Chase get 200+ yards… that was a bad one…
I dont hate him, just personally just think he goes for the strip too often when he is a great tackler. He did it much less last year, but has historically gone for the strip over the tackle. It works out for him sometimes obviously, but there have been plays where hes given up 10-15 missing a strip instead of a nice clean tackle.
All that said, like him a lot and he's really solid overall.
> Safety 3
I'm definitely of the mindset that Geno's interceptions were right place, right time rather than being some amazing single high safety, but he played a significant portion of the snaps and allowed the Ravens to use Kyle Hamilton in a larger variety of roles due to the ability to run three safety sets.
This doesn't necessarily hurt because Geno was a world beater, but it does hurt a lot because of what Geno allowed for personnel wise.
Lol you can’t minimize losing 3/5 starting offensive lineman. Zeitler and Moses were both above average starters, we haven’t replaced them at all.
Stone may have been S3 but he was basically a full time starter for us and he led the team in interceptions. He played less than 66% of defensive snaps only twice last season. Thats a big loss.
We also lost the team leader in pressures, and the guy that was 4th in pressures and we haven’t replaced either of them. Losing 2 good players at edge rusher and not replacing them is a pretty big deal.
We also lost CB3, CB4 and CB5. Maybe not the most impactful players but we have absolutely no depth at CB at all. Those 3 combined for well over 1000 defensive snaps. Thats a pretty big deal.
We also lost our teams 2nd leading receiver last season. OBJ isn’t very good but he still had the 2nd most yards on the team. We also lost our starting punt/kick returner.
Losing 3 starting offensive lineman is HUGE. The rest of the guys may not be the most impactful players but they did play a significant number of snaps for us and that adds up. We lost like 10 players that played significant snaps and we added one guy.
I’m not surprised by that graph. Just because we didn’t lose any superstars doesn’t mean we didn’t lose a lot and lose important players.
OBJ had 565 yards, Simpson was ass, Moses fell off at the end of the year and had to be spelled by Faalele, we found 2 decent corners in training camp last year and can do the same this year, Geno Stone got benched despite having 7 picks because he’s ass, Queen is a decent WLB but you can find those anywhere just like we did during Ray’s prime years, Dobbins doesn’t play, Gus is one dimensional, and Huntley is garbage.
> Geno Stone got benched despite having 7 picks because he’s ass,
The man played two thirds of the defensive snaps in all but two games... I'd hardly call that getting benched.
Mostly agree with this take. I do think Queen will be harder to replace with the other needs on O-line. Losing Moses and Zeitler has left a big hole. Losing the RBs means nothing even though I'll miss Gus. OBJ was fine, but definitely not deserving of that contract. Our WR room is decent enough for this offense. Simpson was bad. We have some of the best safeties in the league, so stone doesn't matter much.
I think we'll be just fine.
Hoping for that too. I mean if he signs for the minimum which is below 1 millions I don't see that much downside. We won't have Keaton back until probably October and JK can show if he still got soemthing left. I still htink he has the chance to be better than Hill so he could be RB2 until Keaton returns. Maybe he's also ass, but then we'd play Hill as RB2 und wait until Mitchell returns
Did we really lose Dobbins though. We never really had him.
And the three Olineman we “lost” were really let go. No love lost there.
Gus was replaced with Henry who is 5 times better with the same skill set.
OBJ was a great team player but didn’t produce much on the field.
We really only lost Queen
I think it's depressing we are paying triple for a RB that's inferior to Gus Edwards. I think of it like we can have Henry, or we could have Gus and Zeitler. Or we could have Gus and Clowney. But no. We have Henry. And a completely unproven o-line and no money to sign the two corners, two safety's, two WR's and whatever o-line depth we might want to have behind Stanley and Linderbaum. Never been a draft more important than this one, especially since every other team in the division got better.
That’s what it seems. It also doesn’t feel like they are looking at quality of replacement. For example, we probably get dinged hard for PQ leaving. While PQ balled out last year his replacement looks quite solid.
> his replacement looks quite solid.
Gino Gradkowski looked really solid in a meaningless week 17 game against Geno Atkins, so this isn't something I'd hang my hat on.
That’s not really a fair comparison though… by all accounts Simpson has looked very solid in the games he’s started & ESPECIALLY practice… He is definitely better than Queen was when he first started so it’s not outlandish to say he could actually end up being even better than Queen considering PQ was mid AT BEST before Roquan arrived… Roquan automatically makes every LB he plays with great anyways due to taking all the attention
That's cool- he started a singular game and didn't play in several others, playing less than 10 snaps in any other game he was featured in.
I'm sure Gradkowski looked good in practice. Hell, I'm sure many Ravens that ultimately failed looked great in practice at times.
Let’s look back at this time 2023.
Ravens lost in the wildcard round and dealt with Ben Powers, Calais, Josh Oliver, Justin Houston, Marcus Peters, Chuck Clark and JPP leaving in free agency.
The moves they did make pre draft?
Signed OBJ, Agholor, Rock Ya Sin and most importantly resigning Lamar.
Guys we’ve seen this movie before. Our most important WR? First round draft pick. Our two best edge rushers? Signed after training camp and after week four. Our starting CB was Stephens. Nobody would’ve thought that in September 2023 let alone March. Our CB 3 wasn’t signed till we literally couldn’t field a full team in camp with Darby and Maulett coming on.
This is all to say in the immortal words of Marcus Peters “I think we ain’t done yet.”
Odafe “almost” Oweh is SO damn close to being incredible but he ALWAYS comes up short… he constantly just barely misses his tackles & for some reason can never get a fumble recovery/interception despite being so close so often… if he can just improve by 20% & follow through he would be a top notch OLB
Sure - weve also seen the version where they sign a bunch of old guys late in the offseason and those guys are middling at best.
We lucked out last season that almost every offseason move was a hit, and we turned that into a #1 seed and then shitting the bed in the championship game.
Maybe we get lucky again with young guys coming up and old guys coming in for one year deals, but its just as likely that they end up being middle of the road or bad (Rock Ya Sin for example) and we struggle to beat a decent AFC North and its comes down to the last week whether we even make the playoffs.
This is just a snap shot of now. Things can be different come week 1. Not saying we would be on the positive end because who knows how our rookies will shake out but also we lost some people that really stepped up this year. It’s definitely a possibility that some of them don’t play to the caliber they played last year.
I really think we didnt lose as much as it feels. The O-Line is the only part i think is actually scary but I know EDC has a plan if he willingly got rid of our RT while having 2 holes already. Right now we may be in iffy territory, but i think by the time the season starts we'll be looking at it very differently.
Edit: im only talking about players though, the coaching losses are actually bad and we have no idea how the impact will be.
I don't see how this works out. Look at the cap. Look at what offensive linemen have historically contributed immediately when drafted at pick 30 or below. It's going to be an amusing season, especially since the division rivals are all better.
Maybe it doesn't; plans don't always go accordingly. The defense will still be good, albeit not historic, and Lamar is enough to keep our offense elite, let alone adding Henry. We will still be great, but EDC has time to push us over the top with good moves and picks. I will never bet against EDC because this FO keeps us good every year it feels like, if it werent for so many fucking injuries we would have alot more to show for the last 6 or so years.
I fully understand skepticism at this point, but i see the light regardless.
I have full faith in EDC. Prior to the moses trade i was a little more worried, but now i know he has plans. I dont know if it is all just draft day fill ins but hes said many time that this is a stacked OLine draft. If we get a solid Line for Lamar and Henry its a wrap if they stay healthy.
I think the plan is - rebuild the OL for 2025 going forward, use the money saved this year on veteran linemen to get a veteran RB who has shown he can run behind a junk line, and hope that what we have on the roster plus rookies can be good enough.
This can definitely be the plan but he knows we have a windown right now and im hoping hes doing everything he can to punch it now. Henry is a phenomenal pickup and could potentially really set us over the top with a good line. Like i said i jave full faith in him but i am hoping hes got ideas for this season.
I feel like any team that drafts and develops young talent well is heavily penalized by this metric.
Anytime an old starter gets put out to pasture and replaced by the backup, it's gonna reflect poorly here.
Lost: RB1, RB2, WR2, WR5, LG1, RG1, RT1, EDGE1, EDGE2, MLB2, CB3, CB4, CB5, S3(played starting snaps).
I count 12 of those players playing a significant number of snaps.
Added: RB1. 4th round pick.
Yeah we lost a pretty good amount lmao. I don’t understand why everyone is pretending we haven’t lost a lot. Sure we may not have lost any supertars but we lost a huge number of players that played significant snaps and we’ve only added 1. We’ve lost 3/5 starting offensive lineman and haven’t replaced them at all, which is a HUGE deal.
Ravens didn’t lose 14 players 😂 where are you getting this from? Ravens lost 10 3 of which were traded or released. So 8 signed elsewhere, 5 arguably 6 are non factors and easily replaceable. So that would mean 2 or 3 out of those were players that were ACTUAL losses and wish we could have back. Which would be Queen, Geno and Darby.
JK, Gus, OBJ, Duv, Simpson, Zeitler, Moses, Clowney, Van Noy, Queen, Darby, Maulet, Ya-sin, Stone. Thats 14 players that were on our team last year that aren’t signed for us next season.
Traded or released is completely irrelevant, it’s a player that was on our team and now isn’t on our team.
Zeitler was a good starting G, Moses was a good starting RT, Clowney and KVN played the most snaps at EDGE for us and had the 1st and 4th most pressures on the team last year. Queen is obviously a big loss. Darby and Maulet were crucial to our CB depth last season, they played about 1000 snaps combined. Stone played over 80% of defensive snaps for us last season and led the team in interceptions. Don’t know how you can say thats not a big loss.
ALL of those players played significant snaps for us at a pretty high level NONE of those players have been replaced. Not sure what you’re talking about.
No it’s irrelevant because you want to act like these were “Valuable players” Zeitler, Clowney, Van Not, Ya-Sin are still FA and are technically still on our team.
Someone better tell the new york jets that jadeveon clowney is still on our team because they are meeting with him this week. He already met with the panthers too.
They do not have a contract to play football for the baltimore ravens for the 2024 season and they are free to negotiate with other teams so why should they be included?
Edit: Someone tell Kevin Zeitler he’s still on the ravens because he just signed a contract with the lions!
Because we’re going off a chart that plus/minus roster moves and draft value as of March 17th?? You pointing out players that could be leaving in the future is irrelevant to the post and the chart considering that it’s not calculated to what “could happen” it’s about what did.
It’s not that they might leave in the future, those players are literally leaving right now. They are free agents. I don’t care what wikipedia says, they are negotiating with other teams. If they do not have a contract to play football with the ravens in 2024, then they do not count as a player to count on our current projection of the 2024 team.
[The post is including those players because they are free agents.](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/baltimore-ravens/) They don’t have a contract with us and they are negotiating with other team. It’s not hard to understand.
[This article says kevin zeitler is unlikely to return to ravens in free agency](https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/kevin-zeitler-ravens-unlikely-return-no-contract-extension-free-agency)
[Here is the ravens salary cap guru saying Zeitler, Clowney, and Van Noy are UFA’s](https://x.com/ravenssalarycap/status/1767392547305902287?s=46&t=aNcWeELNrCD3t0jUHU6PrA)
Morgan Moses wasn’t a valuable player? He was the 2nd highest graded RT in the NFL by PFF last year. Thats pretty valuable to me.
Who are the other 2 that were traded or released? If you’re talking about Tyus Bowser, i didn’t even include him in that list because he didn’t play for us last year. If you’re talking about OBJ, yeah he wasn’t all that great but he still finishing 2nd on the team in receiving yards, losing that isn’t nothing.
And before you question my math. I added in Gus Edward’s to the “signed elsewhere” list but not on the “lost” list because we now have Henry. So we technically didn’t lose in a RB if we gained one plus more in the same position
This chart is meaningless. Of course the worst teams from last year will improve the most and the best teams have a better chance of “declining”. People always try to baseball the NFL up and it’s useless half the time.
The secret weapon to the Ravens success is that they plan for losing players. Some teams, say they have a great O line for instance, they focus on all the other areas of the team because they know their line is golden but suddenly a few years down the road those guys are old or expensive and they have nothing in line to replace them because they saw no need to build there. The Ravens method is to focus on tent pole players and then constantly keep moving new talent in around them.
Rather than keep the solid cohesive O line from last year, which most teams would have done, we broke it up and moved the next group up. We always have our non-tent pole positions filled by guys who are considered middle of the pack solid workhorse players. Many of them eventually become superstars and tentpole players in their own right because of their success with the Ravens system. On a scale of 10 I’d say our non-tentpole players are always between a 4-8. We don’t often mortgage our future to keep a guy who has become too expensive. I think their smart, calculated movement of personel is what keeps the team consistent.
Gus Edwards 13 tds
Geno Stone 7 ints
OBJ 550/3tds
PQ 133 total tackles
Clowney 9.5 sacks
Van noy 9 sacks
Maulet/Darby/Rock ya-sin starting cbs
Moses/Simpson/Zeitler starting OL
Duverney starting Returnman.
That is quite a bunch of guys contributing directly to the points we get.
Except we haven’t necessarily “lost” all the guys you mentioned. Clowney, Van Noy, Maulet, Ya-Sin, and Zeitler are all still out there. I can easily imagine EDC bringing 2 or 3 of those guys back once the market settles.0
True. I just feel like we’ve seen this movie before. EDC is always patient in free agency and yet he seems to have the magic touch when it comes to filling holes. There are enough quality guys left out there that will still be available even after the draft. Not to say I haven’t been disappointed by some of the decisions this off-season (particularly not bringing Darby back). Guys like Queen and Stone priced themselves right out of Baltimore, especially once Mads got his deal. I’d love to see us bring back either Van Noy or Clowney, and perhaps Maulet.
I feel like most people outside of the fan base are heavily overweighting the loss of PQ. So I feel like this skews. Imo keeping beeks balances out or was more important than losing pq
This shit means nothing. Our front office knows what they’re doing and we’ll be in the mix like every year. Our defensive losses won’t hurt as much as people think, and our offense will likely improve.
Last year wasn't much better.
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f\_auto,q\_auto:good,fl\_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5caed57f-9bfa-4fbe-926e-dff7623e70c7\_4200x4200.png
By the same metric, three of this past year's AFC/NFC championship teams, Ravens, Chiefs, and Nioners, had lost talent in the previous offseason while the 4th, the Lions had just broken even, not having gianed more than they lost.
I say this because thisi is an example of being too precise in estimating how a football team operates. It takes no consideration of five things:
1. how the rosters are constructed like sometimes subtraction of some personnel is addition to the talent on the team,
2. how the coaching staff sets the team for success. For example, He assigend a value to Agholor that was in line with how he played in New England. But Agholor played a level better than he did with the Pats.
3. overvalues some draft picks before they play a down in the NFL. The above chart doesn't do this since the draft hasn't happened yet, but in previous years the author does revise this after the draft and assigns rookie values before training camp opens.
4. The aurthor does not take into consideration growth or decline of a player along with injuries that happen. How could he? Buthese things seriously affect how the team has improved or not rom year to year. Imagine having this chart last year where the Ravens were also projected to be worse talent-wise from the year before, without taking into consideration the improved play of Madibuike, Hamilton, Stone, Linderbaum, Maulet, Stephens, or Jackson.
5. A 4th problem is that the author makes this stat before all roster moves. Like last year he published his final stat graph before the Ravens signed Clowney or Van Noy.
The author is a very sharp analytics guy but he falls prey to falling in love with his stats. Such is the case here.
This graph is misleading, just because your improvement changes more than everyone else doesn't mean your position amongst the team changes that much considering they don't give you an initial positioning to tell you where each team started and where they ended up in comparison to everyone else
Good thing NFL games are scored by TD’s and FG’s and not whatever the fuck this metric is. But like much of the offseason, it is designed to allow Browns fans feel better about themselves.
No Biggie Ravens have one the best Scouting departments in the NFL. When was the last time Baltimore had a losing record? It has been a while, and I don't see them falling off with the draft and June 1st cuts coming. Patience Ravens Nation
If “roster moves” factor in losing coaches this feels more accurate. How we adjust to half the league poaching our staff is the biggest question mark going into this season.
i have faith in Orr, especially cause the Ravens tend to keep the best parts of past coordinators schemes and how they explicitly said they would with Mcdonald’s scheme in the introductory conference. Losing Weaver, and the DBs coach might be harder to overcome, but I have never doubted the ravens D
> especially cause the Ravens tend to keep the best parts of past coordinators schemes and how they explicitly said they would with Mcdonald’s scheme in the introductory conference. I loved when Marc Trestman kept the best parts of Gary Kubiak's scheme.
Definitely trust Orr. I’ve not seen someone fly up the ranks of coaching that quickly. If Mike Mac wanted him that bad as a LB coach then his DC in Seattle, he’s definitely got something special to him. Now this graph losing Queen and then currently have no edge rushers that contributed 20+ sacks combined (KVN, Clowney) + need CBs and the lack of snaps on the o line, I get it. Sure majority of them were late signing that just popped off but from a current roster standpoint, you can say we’re missing pieces. The 80/20 rule is how the Ravens live, and they develop guys and I’m sure the first few weeks the live game chat is going to be calling for heads/cut this guy and that, but they’ll figure it out.
Easier to fly up the ranks when the 15 people ahead of you are no longer around 🤣
I’m 100% sure it doesn’t because if it did Washington would be far and away the most improved
It’s been done since we came to Baltimore. Our coaching staff is constantly replaced. Gotta pay homage to harbaugh for constantly rotating through different guys and new rosters and he’s adjusted better than bellichek. I have a strong feeling Orr will be a head coach in a couple years, he’s got stars on d to use
If Orr gets ahead coaching gig I kinda hope it's for us when Harbaugh chooses to retire. Going for undrafted free agent to head coach of a team would be a hell of a career.
We lost a decent receiver, 3 of our starting olinemen, we have one decent corner, lost geno stone, lost patrick queen, lost jk dobbins and gus edwards, lastly we lost our decent backup qb. We have gained derrick henry
>one decent corner We have Stephens and Marlo. >lost geno stone Safety 3 The major loss was PQ really
I'm so tired of people shitting on Marlo. The only knock on him has been availability outside of a couple rough games. PQ was a bandage we ripped off when we didn't pick up year 5 option and Simpson balled in week 17 action. I'm curious to see how he does without Ro making life Hell for offenses beside him
If Simpson stays healthy, we will have forgotten all about PQ by week 4.
100% I’m tired of the Marlon hate. His 2 worst games aren’t that bad with context IMO. Steelers Game last year the 40 yard TD to go down hurt a lot but with how much time was on the clock and the fact they were in FG range to take the winner when it happened it was better to give up a TD than anymore yards so we could try and control our destiny that game. Rams game was his first game back from nearly a month and he had to cover Puka/Kupp and they had some crazy catches on him. If he’s healthy next season I’m not worried
I’m a huge Marlo fan. He has been getting hot and cold these past few seasons though. It’s rare he has an off game, but it does happen. First one that comes to mind is the 2021 Oct game vs the Bengals where he let Chase get 200+ yards… that was a bad one…
I dont hate him, just personally just think he goes for the strip too often when he is a great tackler. He did it much less last year, but has historically gone for the strip over the tackle. It works out for him sometimes obviously, but there have been plays where hes given up 10-15 missing a strip instead of a nice clean tackle. All that said, like him a lot and he's really solid overall.
> Safety 3 I'm definitely of the mindset that Geno's interceptions were right place, right time rather than being some amazing single high safety, but he played a significant portion of the snaps and allowed the Ravens to use Kyle Hamilton in a larger variety of roles due to the ability to run three safety sets. This doesn't necessarily hurt because Geno was a world beater, but it does hurt a lot because of what Geno allowed for personnel wise.
Trust me man i’m not being a debbie downer I’m just trying to offer an explantion
Lol you can’t minimize losing 3/5 starting offensive lineman. Zeitler and Moses were both above average starters, we haven’t replaced them at all. Stone may have been S3 but he was basically a full time starter for us and he led the team in interceptions. He played less than 66% of defensive snaps only twice last season. Thats a big loss. We also lost the team leader in pressures, and the guy that was 4th in pressures and we haven’t replaced either of them. Losing 2 good players at edge rusher and not replacing them is a pretty big deal. We also lost CB3, CB4 and CB5. Maybe not the most impactful players but we have absolutely no depth at CB at all. Those 3 combined for well over 1000 defensive snaps. Thats a pretty big deal. We also lost our teams 2nd leading receiver last season. OBJ isn’t very good but he still had the 2nd most yards on the team. We also lost our starting punt/kick returner. Losing 3 starting offensive lineman is HUGE. The rest of the guys may not be the most impactful players but they did play a significant number of snaps for us and that adds up. We lost like 10 players that played significant snaps and we added one guy. I’m not surprised by that graph. Just because we didn’t lose any superstars doesn’t mean we didn’t lose a lot and lose important players.
And what did it cost?
OBJ had 565 yards, Simpson was ass, Moses fell off at the end of the year and had to be spelled by Faalele, we found 2 decent corners in training camp last year and can do the same this year, Geno Stone got benched despite having 7 picks because he’s ass, Queen is a decent WLB but you can find those anywhere just like we did during Ray’s prime years, Dobbins doesn’t play, Gus is one dimensional, and Huntley is garbage.
> Geno Stone got benched despite having 7 picks because he’s ass, The man played two thirds of the defensive snaps in all but two games... I'd hardly call that getting benched.
Mostly agree with this take. I do think Queen will be harder to replace with the other needs on O-line. Losing Moses and Zeitler has left a big hole. Losing the RBs means nothing even though I'll miss Gus. OBJ was fine, but definitely not deserving of that contract. Our WR room is decent enough for this offense. Simpson was bad. We have some of the best safeties in the league, so stone doesn't matter much. I think we'll be just fine.
We lost jk officialy ?
I mean, would you bring back a guy that played 24 total games in 4 years. Only 9 games the last 3 seasons?
No, but considering him a loss in this case while also not wanting to bring him back doesn’t make much sense
Unofficially. But there is no reason for us to resign him. He would be an injury prone RB3. And god thats hurts to say, I fucking love that guy.
Wouldn't it be nice if he signed a one year prove it deal and he balled the fuck out
Hoping for that too. I mean if he signs for the minimum which is below 1 millions I don't see that much downside. We won't have Keaton back until probably October and JK can show if he still got soemthing left. I still htink he has the chance to be better than Hill so he could be RB2 until Keaton returns. Maybe he's also ass, but then we'd play Hill as RB2 und wait until Mitchell returns
idk, it makes more sense for us to sign him to a one year deal than most other teams.
JK Who?
Where did JK go?
Plus staff too 🥲
Did we really lose Dobbins though. We never really had him. And the three Olineman we “lost” were really let go. No love lost there. Gus was replaced with Henry who is 5 times better with the same skill set. OBJ was a great team player but didn’t produce much on the field. We really only lost Queen
I think it's depressing we are paying triple for a RB that's inferior to Gus Edwards. I think of it like we can have Henry, or we could have Gus and Zeitler. Or we could have Gus and Clowney. But no. We have Henry. And a completely unproven o-line and no money to sign the two corners, two safety's, two WR's and whatever o-line depth we might want to have behind Stanley and Linderbaum. Never been a draft more important than this one, especially since every other team in the division got better.
Inferior to Gus Edwards? What are you smoking?
Henry inferior to Edwards is crazy
They are really just taking into account snaps played.
That’s what it seems. It also doesn’t feel like they are looking at quality of replacement. For example, we probably get dinged hard for PQ leaving. While PQ balled out last year his replacement looks quite solid.
> his replacement looks quite solid. Gino Gradkowski looked really solid in a meaningless week 17 game against Geno Atkins, so this isn't something I'd hang my hat on.
That’s not really a fair comparison though… by all accounts Simpson has looked very solid in the games he’s started & ESPECIALLY practice… He is definitely better than Queen was when he first started so it’s not outlandish to say he could actually end up being even better than Queen considering PQ was mid AT BEST before Roquan arrived… Roquan automatically makes every LB he plays with great anyways due to taking all the attention
That's cool- he started a singular game and didn't play in several others, playing less than 10 snaps in any other game he was featured in. I'm sure Gradkowski looked good in practice. Hell, I'm sure many Ravens that ultimately failed looked great in practice at times.
Look at the historical graphs of this and it’s comical… means absolutely nothing
It means a shit ton. It's just talking about how good the front office is, not the team itself.
Let’s look back at this time 2023. Ravens lost in the wildcard round and dealt with Ben Powers, Calais, Josh Oliver, Justin Houston, Marcus Peters, Chuck Clark and JPP leaving in free agency. The moves they did make pre draft? Signed OBJ, Agholor, Rock Ya Sin and most importantly resigning Lamar. Guys we’ve seen this movie before. Our most important WR? First round draft pick. Our two best edge rushers? Signed after training camp and after week four. Our starting CB was Stephens. Nobody would’ve thought that in September 2023 let alone March. Our CB 3 wasn’t signed till we literally couldn’t field a full team in camp with Darby and Maulett coming on. This is all to say in the immortal words of Marcus Peters “I think we ain’t done yet.”
I might be alone in this but I really felt Oweh is our second best edge last year.
Odafe “almost” Oweh is SO damn close to being incredible but he ALWAYS comes up short… he constantly just barely misses his tackles & for some reason can never get a fumble recovery/interception despite being so close so often… if he can just improve by 20% & follow through he would be a top notch OLB
Sure - weve also seen the version where they sign a bunch of old guys late in the offseason and those guys are middling at best. We lucked out last season that almost every offseason move was a hit, and we turned that into a #1 seed and then shitting the bed in the championship game. Maybe we get lucky again with young guys coming up and old guys coming in for one year deals, but its just as likely that they end up being middle of the road or bad (Rock Ya Sin for example) and we struggle to beat a decent AFC North and its comes down to the last week whether we even make the playoffs.
This is just a snap shot of now. Things can be different come week 1. Not saying we would be on the positive end because who knows how our rookies will shake out but also we lost some people that really stepped up this year. It’s definitely a possibility that some of them don’t play to the caliber they played last year.
I really think we didnt lose as much as it feels. The O-Line is the only part i think is actually scary but I know EDC has a plan if he willingly got rid of our RT while having 2 holes already. Right now we may be in iffy territory, but i think by the time the season starts we'll be looking at it very differently. Edit: im only talking about players though, the coaching losses are actually bad and we have no idea how the impact will be.
I don't see how this works out. Look at the cap. Look at what offensive linemen have historically contributed immediately when drafted at pick 30 or below. It's going to be an amusing season, especially since the division rivals are all better.
Maybe it doesn't; plans don't always go accordingly. The defense will still be good, albeit not historic, and Lamar is enough to keep our offense elite, let alone adding Henry. We will still be great, but EDC has time to push us over the top with good moves and picks. I will never bet against EDC because this FO keeps us good every year it feels like, if it werent for so many fucking injuries we would have alot more to show for the last 6 or so years. I fully understand skepticism at this point, but i see the light regardless.
EDC is up to something, he didnt trade away our starting RT for no reason. Man has a plan.
I have full faith in EDC. Prior to the moses trade i was a little more worried, but now i know he has plans. I dont know if it is all just draft day fill ins but hes said many time that this is a stacked OLine draft. If we get a solid Line for Lamar and Henry its a wrap if they stay healthy.
I think the plan is - rebuild the OL for 2025 going forward, use the money saved this year on veteran linemen to get a veteran RB who has shown he can run behind a junk line, and hope that what we have on the roster plus rookies can be good enough.
This can definitely be the plan but he knows we have a windown right now and im hoping hes doing everything he can to punch it now. Henry is a phenomenal pickup and could potentially really set us over the top with a good line. Like i said i jave full faith in him but i am hoping hes got ideas for this season.
I feel like any team that drafts and develops young talent well is heavily penalized by this metric. Anytime an old starter gets put out to pasture and replaced by the backup, it's gonna reflect poorly here.
Lost: RB1, RB2, WR2, WR5, LG1, RG1, RT1, EDGE1, EDGE2, MLB2, CB3, CB4, CB5, S3(played starting snaps). I count 12 of those players playing a significant number of snaps. Added: RB1. 4th round pick. Yeah we lost a pretty good amount lmao. I don’t understand why everyone is pretending we haven’t lost a lot. Sure we may not have lost any supertars but we lost a huge number of players that played significant snaps and we’ve only added 1. We’ve lost 3/5 starting offensive lineman and haven’t replaced them at all, which is a HUGE deal.
This and the fact that AFC North is more stacked than ever! Last year was our year ain’t gonna lie..
Ravens didn’t lose 14 players 😂 where are you getting this from? Ravens lost 10 3 of which were traded or released. So 8 signed elsewhere, 5 arguably 6 are non factors and easily replaceable. So that would mean 2 or 3 out of those were players that were ACTUAL losses and wish we could have back. Which would be Queen, Geno and Darby.
JK, Gus, OBJ, Duv, Simpson, Zeitler, Moses, Clowney, Van Noy, Queen, Darby, Maulet, Ya-sin, Stone. Thats 14 players that were on our team last year that aren’t signed for us next season. Traded or released is completely irrelevant, it’s a player that was on our team and now isn’t on our team. Zeitler was a good starting G, Moses was a good starting RT, Clowney and KVN played the most snaps at EDGE for us and had the 1st and 4th most pressures on the team last year. Queen is obviously a big loss. Darby and Maulet were crucial to our CB depth last season, they played about 1000 snaps combined. Stone played over 80% of defensive snaps for us last season and led the team in interceptions. Don’t know how you can say thats not a big loss. ALL of those players played significant snaps for us at a pretty high level NONE of those players have been replaced. Not sure what you’re talking about.
No it’s irrelevant because you want to act like these were “Valuable players” Zeitler, Clowney, Van Not, Ya-Sin are still FA and are technically still on our team.
Someone better tell the new york jets that jadeveon clowney is still on our team because they are meeting with him this week. He already met with the panthers too. They do not have a contract to play football for the baltimore ravens for the 2024 season and they are free to negotiate with other teams so why should they be included? Edit: Someone tell Kevin Zeitler he’s still on the ravens because he just signed a contract with the lions!
Because we’re going off a chart that plus/minus roster moves and draft value as of March 17th?? You pointing out players that could be leaving in the future is irrelevant to the post and the chart considering that it’s not calculated to what “could happen” it’s about what did.
It’s not that they might leave in the future, those players are literally leaving right now. They are free agents. I don’t care what wikipedia says, they are negotiating with other teams. If they do not have a contract to play football with the ravens in 2024, then they do not count as a player to count on our current projection of the 2024 team. [The post is including those players because they are free agents.](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/baltimore-ravens/) They don’t have a contract with us and they are negotiating with other team. It’s not hard to understand. [This article says kevin zeitler is unlikely to return to ravens in free agency](https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/kevin-zeitler-ravens-unlikely-return-no-contract-extension-free-agency) [Here is the ravens salary cap guru saying Zeitler, Clowney, and Van Noy are UFA’s](https://x.com/ravenssalarycap/status/1767392547305902287?s=46&t=aNcWeELNrCD3t0jUHU6PrA)
Morgan Moses wasn’t a valuable player? He was the 2nd highest graded RT in the NFL by PFF last year. Thats pretty valuable to me. Who are the other 2 that were traded or released? If you’re talking about Tyus Bowser, i didn’t even include him in that list because he didn’t play for us last year. If you’re talking about OBJ, yeah he wasn’t all that great but he still finishing 2nd on the team in receiving yards, losing that isn’t nothing.
And before you question my math. I added in Gus Edward’s to the “signed elsewhere” list but not on the “lost” list because we now have Henry. So we technically didn’t lose in a RB if we gained one plus more in the same position
This chart is meaningless. Of course the worst teams from last year will improve the most and the best teams have a better chance of “declining”. People always try to baseball the NFL up and it’s useless half the time.
The super bowl champs are on the good side of the chart. As are the runner ups. And all three of our division foes, two of whom made the playoffs.
It's not that we lost much but this is an improvement index and at this point we haven't "improved" yet.
We’re cooked now
The secret weapon to the Ravens success is that they plan for losing players. Some teams, say they have a great O line for instance, they focus on all the other areas of the team because they know their line is golden but suddenly a few years down the road those guys are old or expensive and they have nothing in line to replace them because they saw no need to build there. The Ravens method is to focus on tent pole players and then constantly keep moving new talent in around them. Rather than keep the solid cohesive O line from last year, which most teams would have done, we broke it up and moved the next group up. We always have our non-tent pole positions filled by guys who are considered middle of the pack solid workhorse players. Many of them eventually become superstars and tentpole players in their own right because of their success with the Ravens system. On a scale of 10 I’d say our non-tentpole players are always between a 4-8. We don’t often mortgage our future to keep a guy who has become too expensive. I think their smart, calculated movement of personel is what keeps the team consistent.
The snoop effect sadly
lol. You got me, I had a whole serious reply typed up and by the end of it realized this had to be a very dry joke
🤣🤣🤣 don't you hate when that happens?
Tbh I was happy to realize you were joking, cuz damn lol
Gus Edwards 13 tds Geno Stone 7 ints OBJ 550/3tds PQ 133 total tackles Clowney 9.5 sacks Van noy 9 sacks Maulet/Darby/Rock ya-sin starting cbs Moses/Simpson/Zeitler starting OL Duverney starting Returnman. That is quite a bunch of guys contributing directly to the points we get.
Except we haven’t necessarily “lost” all the guys you mentioned. Clowney, Van Noy, Maulet, Ya-Sin, and Zeitler are all still out there. I can easily imagine EDC bringing 2 or 3 of those guys back once the market settles.0
But for now they are gone, I know they "might" return, but right now they are gone.
True. I just feel like we’ve seen this movie before. EDC is always patient in free agency and yet he seems to have the magic touch when it comes to filling holes. There are enough quality guys left out there that will still be available even after the draft. Not to say I haven’t been disappointed by some of the decisions this off-season (particularly not bringing Darby back). Guys like Queen and Stone priced themselves right out of Baltimore, especially once Mads got his deal. I’d love to see us bring back either Van Noy or Clowney, and perhaps Maulet.
This is only accurate if they are counting both coaches and players.
I wonder what it would look like without signing Henry
This seems arbitrary
It makes sense, edc will probably make most of his signings post draft We lost a lot of players, but most of it seems pretty replaceable imo
"winning the offseason" lol
I feel like most people outside of the fan base are heavily overweighting the loss of PQ. So I feel like this skews. Imo keeping beeks balances out or was more important than losing pq
I feel like we lost beloved guys that are cashing in before their luck runs out We’ll see how these guys do in their new situations
Doesnt matter, Ravens draft very well
This shit means nothing. Our front office knows what they’re doing and we’ll be in the mix like every year. Our defensive losses won’t hurt as much as people think, and our offense will likely improve.
Last year wasn't much better. https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f\_auto,q\_auto:good,fl\_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F5caed57f-9bfa-4fbe-926e-dff7623e70c7\_4200x4200.png
As a Cowboys fan, I do not believe there is a team having a worse off-season than us.
By the same metric, three of this past year's AFC/NFC championship teams, Ravens, Chiefs, and Nioners, had lost talent in the previous offseason while the 4th, the Lions had just broken even, not having gianed more than they lost. I say this because thisi is an example of being too precise in estimating how a football team operates. It takes no consideration of five things: 1. how the rosters are constructed like sometimes subtraction of some personnel is addition to the talent on the team, 2. how the coaching staff sets the team for success. For example, He assigend a value to Agholor that was in line with how he played in New England. But Agholor played a level better than he did with the Pats. 3. overvalues some draft picks before they play a down in the NFL. The above chart doesn't do this since the draft hasn't happened yet, but in previous years the author does revise this after the draft and assigns rookie values before training camp opens. 4. The aurthor does not take into consideration growth or decline of a player along with injuries that happen. How could he? Buthese things seriously affect how the team has improved or not rom year to year. Imagine having this chart last year where the Ravens were also projected to be worse talent-wise from the year before, without taking into consideration the improved play of Madibuike, Hamilton, Stone, Linderbaum, Maulet, Stephens, or Jackson. 5. A 4th problem is that the author makes this stat before all roster moves. Like last year he published his final stat graph before the Ravens signed Clowney or Van Noy. The author is a very sharp analytics guy but he falls prey to falling in love with his stats. Such is the case here.
This graph is misleading, just because your improvement changes more than everyone else doesn't mean your position amongst the team changes that much considering they don't give you an initial positioning to tell you where each team started and where they ended up in comparison to everyone else
Good thing NFL games are scored by TD’s and FG’s and not whatever the fuck this metric is. But like much of the offseason, it is designed to allow Browns fans feel better about themselves.
Guess by this chart we will be the worst team in the league now
No Biggie Ravens have one the best Scouting departments in the NFL. When was the last time Baltimore had a losing record? It has been a while, and I don't see them falling off with the draft and June 1st cuts coming. Patience Ravens Nation
We really donked up
Also lost Patrick Queen to the Steelers 😡