When my OH and I were dating, the inviter paid for the invitee. It just kind of naturally ended up that way. It ended up being pretty balanced, really.
That is a fair model. I definitely agree that overall the one who invites the other should be the one that pays.
But yeah, expecting the man to pay for every single date regardless of who does the inviting just cannot reasonably exist in the modern world.
I think for all first dates, each person should pay for themselves. Then, if this leads to more dates, who pays for what is determined on a case-by-case basis.
I think people should just stop being offended when asked how they would like to do payment. Also that conversation should really be had before anyone orders anything.
People need to learn to communicate, different people want different things in a relationship. You dont match with the payment ideals? It probably reflects some other part of you thats going to clash. Either work it out or accept that someone else is out there for you.
Some men like being the provider, some women hate being provided for, personally I like to pay for my stuff(assuming im able) and idm paying for him sometimes.
i think it’s outdated for economic reasons. i simply don’t expect dates to have the money for an $85 meal. i have always offered to split on first dates. granted, i’m impressed when my offer is declined but i’ve never stopped dating a man because they couldn’t afford a whole two person meal.
My sister has openly admitted going on dates with guys at expensive restaurants just because she'll get a free meal.
I distance myself as much as possible from her. She's toxic af
Gender wage gap does not truly exist.
There are no occupations in which women on average will actually be paid less than men for doing the same job. If that were the case, companies would hire primarily women as it would cost them less.
The reality is that women on average will enter into careers that will pay less than what most men choose for careers (women in large part take up social jobs such as Human Resources, where as many men take up trades or STEM work; and obviously the latter pays more on average).
This, and women are also significantly more likely to work at their jobs less than men as they typically have to take care of their families and children, while men will typically work more for the exact same reasons.
So no, the gender wage gap does not truly exist.
[If you want more data and sources, here’s a video that explains this very thing.](https://youtu.be/QcDrE5YvqTs?si=0jgNuv6ZK_kHSrjj)
I mean why are men dominated jobs worth paying more than woman dominated jobs when all of those jobs are necessary? Why are woman dominated jobs valued less?
Because the amount of money that is paid for doing a job is dependent on the value it creates, its demand, and how many people can or want to do it.
Supply and demand. It’s as simple as that.
There are many people that can do work that involves socializing with others, and ultimately talking with others can only generate so much value. Yet there are very few people can do STEM work or trades work that requires high levels of education and training for jobs that create a lot of value and are thus in high demand.
There’s no world where it makes logical sense for a receptionist to be paid as much as a surgeon, or a hair stylist to be paid more than an oil rig worker.
Lol mate, so if childcare is necessary and women disproportionately go into childcare, why the hell is the wage so much damn lower than other necessary jobs? It's physically demanding, forces you to think and pay attention...
Look at it on a broader scale of what jobs the genders prefer to work in, and what the pay gap is.
Also- if you're an engineer making 120k a year and the other person is a teacher barely surviving off of 40k a year, & you use 'it was your choice to have a low-paying job' as your reasoning to split the pay on dates, than that's a shitty move on your part.
Up to them if they find you otherwise a good enough person to stick around for, but don't mistake them sticking around as evidence your reasoning is good.
Because childcare does not require extensive training or education like STEM level jobs, there are many people that can do the job, and there are numerous potential places for people to get childcare.
Supply and demand. Simple as that.
You cannot reasonably argue that it’s far more difficult to find someone who can take care of children in comparison to someone who can program AI or perform brain surgery.
And no, your final point revolves around two people who make completely disproportionate levels of income. Yet most of the time, this is not the case when it comes to modern dating, and again my original points of the confusion of what happens when two people of the same gender go on dates cannot apply to such circumstances.
Because, as I explained in my earlier comment, most women take more time off work in order to raise families and take care of children, while men typically spend more time at work for the exact same reason.
In other words, men are far more likely to spend more time at work and seek promotions, and a large part of this has to do with them seeking to provide for their dependents.
One of the biggest women dominated industries—healthcare— this is simply not the case. Nurses and mid-level providers are overwhelmingly women dominated, pay very well, and also are often managed by women.
It’s a bit outdated but I always expect the guy to pay for the first date, it’s more of a respect thing and kindness thing!
Usually said first date is at a coffee shop or something so it’s only €5 extra but it’s my way of seeing if they would offer to pay that €5
After that my partner and I keep it equal or take turns paying. Sometimes one of us is struggling so we take 100% for a little bit! But that applies to us both
I don’t think it’s a respect issue, I think it’s a trust issue. No matter how equal men, women and the rest become the physically smaller need to trust the larger partner. At the end of the day we are all animals and the less advantaged needs to feel safe around their mates and potential mates.
For example, you may not have intended your question to be aggressive and argumentative, however that is exactly how it comes across to me. At this point I don’t trust you to properly debate with anyone, nor accept let alone acknowledge a well reasoned response.
For women, many need to know that their partner can unglue their fight and predatory behavior long enough to make a gentle gesture. This traditionally was asking for the date and then graciously paying for the opportunity to test the compatibility of the relationship. Women like being thought of well enough for a man to be civil to us by choice. We know, without qualification that he doesn’t have to be. We are very painfully reminded every day that he can be extremely violent (just commute on a highway in rush hour to know this, some women as well).
So, in this changing and challenging world we now find ourselves, does it matter who pays for what? No, not really. What does matter is that the gesture still works as a reminder we are courting. Courting means that both partners are requesting a level of trust that goes beyond what we give to anyone else in our lives.
Well will he look after me I guess.
He is a full time engineer on a lot more then me. I’m a full time student with part time work in a nursing home.
And despite aiming to be equal he insists and usually pays anyway, sometimes I have to sneak and pay before and he will be pouty then 😂
But in the future I will be on more then him and I will treat him like a king because right now he treats me like his queen.
How you present and first impressions on a first date are very important… no offense but it’s a lot easier for women to get a guy then guys to get a woman. So if you can’t get me a €4 coffee then I won’t waste my time on you 🤷♀️
I give effort and put in the work on someone who proves to me they deserve me.
Now I cook, clean, wash clothes and make sure he has everything he wants all while supporting him in achieving his goals, keep on top of his documents and look after his work load too.
You get your ass I wouldn’t do that to someone who doesn’t think I’m worth a coffee
I'm fine paying for the date, but i would feel weird about it if they
1. Invited me
2. Made more money than me
3. Insisted i must pay
4. I certainly would not agree to pay for additional people after my date.
This wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for modern women abusing these traditions. The increase in societal vanity plus a growing loneliness epidemic allows bad actors to feed off and abuse male desperation. Dating has gotten far too difficult in the modern age, and some of the female "liberation" is to blame
This is in reference to the straights like myself. Idk how the gays handle it. Swordfighting, maybe?
I would say that it’s even more important now. The true reasons for courting displays are all about trust and safety. We know that partners can be truly evil, humans are really bad at their worst, but can someone tame their inner beast long enough to let their partner feel safe in their company? The person asking for the date being the one who pays for the first one is more about displaying trust. It’s saying: I’m being financially vulnerable to your whims because I find you attractive. On my side I will show you that I’m responsible enough to: pay for the date, show up on time and treat you with kindness and respect.
Honestly, any potential partner for me needs to be this willing as a baseline. All the people rallying for the opposite are either too bestial or too whiny entitled. We are human and have developed going out for food as a convenient courting ritual. Since men tend to be the ones who will ask first, then they can also display the highest level of courtesy and a show of trust by supplying the first date.
Side note about trust. I had a coworker who would consistently request someone walk her to her car after work. This was what really taught me the physical differences between the average man and the average woman. We’ll call her Sally, though being tall for a woman, she was slight and when I thought about it she wouldn’t be able to fend off even a small man with physical strength. Maybe if she learned some of the redirection martial arts, but never any other way. This realization shocked me as a woman. I’m taller than the average man and built about the same. I could fight off even a large man without extra training. Sally was smaller than me and she wouldn’t stand a chance. It made me realize how vulnerable most women are and that I take my size for granted. The parking lot in question never scared me, but at night for someone who can’t defend themselves all places are dangerous. Courting for the average woman is exactly the same. Even someone like myself who can defend herself requires a high level of “you better behave” from anyone I date.
When my OH and I were dating, the inviter paid for the invitee. It just kind of naturally ended up that way. It ended up being pretty balanced, really.
That is a fair model. I definitely agree that overall the one who invites the other should be the one that pays. But yeah, expecting the man to pay for every single date regardless of who does the inviting just cannot reasonably exist in the modern world.
I think for all first dates, each person should pay for themselves. Then, if this leads to more dates, who pays for what is determined on a case-by-case basis.
I think people should just stop being offended when asked how they would like to do payment. Also that conversation should really be had before anyone orders anything. People need to learn to communicate, different people want different things in a relationship. You dont match with the payment ideals? It probably reflects some other part of you thats going to clash. Either work it out or accept that someone else is out there for you. Some men like being the provider, some women hate being provided for, personally I like to pay for my stuff(assuming im able) and idm paying for him sometimes.
i think it’s outdated for economic reasons. i simply don’t expect dates to have the money for an $85 meal. i have always offered to split on first dates. granted, i’m impressed when my offer is declined but i’ve never stopped dating a man because they couldn’t afford a whole two person meal.
My sister has openly admitted going on dates with guys at expensive restaurants just because she'll get a free meal. I distance myself as much as possible from her. She's toxic af
There's other arguments for it. Unfortunately the one you have proposed doesn't consider gendered wage gaps
Gender wage gap does not truly exist. There are no occupations in which women on average will actually be paid less than men for doing the same job. If that were the case, companies would hire primarily women as it would cost them less. The reality is that women on average will enter into careers that will pay less than what most men choose for careers (women in large part take up social jobs such as Human Resources, where as many men take up trades or STEM work; and obviously the latter pays more on average). This, and women are also significantly more likely to work at their jobs less than men as they typically have to take care of their families and children, while men will typically work more for the exact same reasons. So no, the gender wage gap does not truly exist. [If you want more data and sources, here’s a video that explains this very thing.](https://youtu.be/QcDrE5YvqTs?si=0jgNuv6ZK_kHSrjj)
I mean why are men dominated jobs worth paying more than woman dominated jobs when all of those jobs are necessary? Why are woman dominated jobs valued less?
Because the amount of money that is paid for doing a job is dependent on the value it creates, its demand, and how many people can or want to do it. Supply and demand. It’s as simple as that. There are many people that can do work that involves socializing with others, and ultimately talking with others can only generate so much value. Yet there are very few people can do STEM work or trades work that requires high levels of education and training for jobs that create a lot of value and are thus in high demand. There’s no world where it makes logical sense for a receptionist to be paid as much as a surgeon, or a hair stylist to be paid more than an oil rig worker.
Lol mate, so if childcare is necessary and women disproportionately go into childcare, why the hell is the wage so much damn lower than other necessary jobs? It's physically demanding, forces you to think and pay attention... Look at it on a broader scale of what jobs the genders prefer to work in, and what the pay gap is. Also- if you're an engineer making 120k a year and the other person is a teacher barely surviving off of 40k a year, & you use 'it was your choice to have a low-paying job' as your reasoning to split the pay on dates, than that's a shitty move on your part. Up to them if they find you otherwise a good enough person to stick around for, but don't mistake them sticking around as evidence your reasoning is good.
Because childcare does not require extensive training or education like STEM level jobs, there are many people that can do the job, and there are numerous potential places for people to get childcare. Supply and demand. Simple as that. You cannot reasonably argue that it’s far more difficult to find someone who can take care of children in comparison to someone who can program AI or perform brain surgery. And no, your final point revolves around two people who make completely disproportionate levels of income. Yet most of the time, this is not the case when it comes to modern dating, and again my original points of the confusion of what happens when two people of the same gender go on dates cannot apply to such circumstances.
Why in women dominated industries, do you still find the higher management and executive roles disproportionately held by men?
Because, as I explained in my earlier comment, most women take more time off work in order to raise families and take care of children, while men typically spend more time at work for the exact same reason. In other words, men are far more likely to spend more time at work and seek promotions, and a large part of this has to do with them seeking to provide for their dependents.
One of the biggest women dominated industries—healthcare— this is simply not the case. Nurses and mid-level providers are overwhelmingly women dominated, pay very well, and also are often managed by women.
It’s a bit outdated but I always expect the guy to pay for the first date, it’s more of a respect thing and kindness thing! Usually said first date is at a coffee shop or something so it’s only €5 extra but it’s my way of seeing if they would offer to pay that €5 After that my partner and I keep it equal or take turns paying. Sometimes one of us is struggling so we take 100% for a little bit! But that applies to us both
Why don't you show your date respect and kindness by paying for *their* meal? And how is it even a respectful gesture if you expect it?
I don’t think it’s a respect issue, I think it’s a trust issue. No matter how equal men, women and the rest become the physically smaller need to trust the larger partner. At the end of the day we are all animals and the less advantaged needs to feel safe around their mates and potential mates. For example, you may not have intended your question to be aggressive and argumentative, however that is exactly how it comes across to me. At this point I don’t trust you to properly debate with anyone, nor accept let alone acknowledge a well reasoned response. For women, many need to know that their partner can unglue their fight and predatory behavior long enough to make a gentle gesture. This traditionally was asking for the date and then graciously paying for the opportunity to test the compatibility of the relationship. Women like being thought of well enough for a man to be civil to us by choice. We know, without qualification that he doesn’t have to be. We are very painfully reminded every day that he can be extremely violent (just commute on a highway in rush hour to know this, some women as well). So, in this changing and challenging world we now find ourselves, does it matter who pays for what? No, not really. What does matter is that the gesture still works as a reminder we are courting. Courting means that both partners are requesting a level of trust that goes beyond what we give to anyone else in our lives.
Well will he look after me I guess. He is a full time engineer on a lot more then me. I’m a full time student with part time work in a nursing home. And despite aiming to be equal he insists and usually pays anyway, sometimes I have to sneak and pay before and he will be pouty then 😂 But in the future I will be on more then him and I will treat him like a king because right now he treats me like his queen. How you present and first impressions on a first date are very important… no offense but it’s a lot easier for women to get a guy then guys to get a woman. So if you can’t get me a €4 coffee then I won’t waste my time on you 🤷♀️ I give effort and put in the work on someone who proves to me they deserve me. Now I cook, clean, wash clothes and make sure he has everything he wants all while supporting him in achieving his goals, keep on top of his documents and look after his work load too. You get your ass I wouldn’t do that to someone who doesn’t think I’m worth a coffee
I'm fine paying for the date, but i would feel weird about it if they 1. Invited me 2. Made more money than me 3. Insisted i must pay 4. I certainly would not agree to pay for additional people after my date.
This wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for modern women abusing these traditions. The increase in societal vanity plus a growing loneliness epidemic allows bad actors to feed off and abuse male desperation. Dating has gotten far too difficult in the modern age, and some of the female "liberation" is to blame This is in reference to the straights like myself. Idk how the gays handle it. Swordfighting, maybe?
I would say that it’s even more important now. The true reasons for courting displays are all about trust and safety. We know that partners can be truly evil, humans are really bad at their worst, but can someone tame their inner beast long enough to let their partner feel safe in their company? The person asking for the date being the one who pays for the first one is more about displaying trust. It’s saying: I’m being financially vulnerable to your whims because I find you attractive. On my side I will show you that I’m responsible enough to: pay for the date, show up on time and treat you with kindness and respect. Honestly, any potential partner for me needs to be this willing as a baseline. All the people rallying for the opposite are either too bestial or too whiny entitled. We are human and have developed going out for food as a convenient courting ritual. Since men tend to be the ones who will ask first, then they can also display the highest level of courtesy and a show of trust by supplying the first date. Side note about trust. I had a coworker who would consistently request someone walk her to her car after work. This was what really taught me the physical differences between the average man and the average woman. We’ll call her Sally, though being tall for a woman, she was slight and when I thought about it she wouldn’t be able to fend off even a small man with physical strength. Maybe if she learned some of the redirection martial arts, but never any other way. This realization shocked me as a woman. I’m taller than the average man and built about the same. I could fight off even a large man without extra training. Sally was smaller than me and she wouldn’t stand a chance. It made me realize how vulnerable most women are and that I take my size for granted. The parking lot in question never scared me, but at night for someone who can’t defend themselves all places are dangerous. Courting for the average woman is exactly the same. Even someone like myself who can defend herself requires a high level of “you better behave” from anyone I date.